Pod Insights Pablo Torre Finds Out Share & Strap-On & Tell with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe About this episode The greatest power couple in sports returns for a blue-cardigan'd victory lap full of wisdom, statues, Suegronis, Stud Budz... and real talk on what the WNBA's nuclear option could mean for the future of work.
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Transcript 11,383 words · 17 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.
0:06 Speaker 01 The only way people hear us is if we [bleep] scream about it.
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2:24 Speaker 04 How've you been Pablo?
2:25 Pablo Torre? I'm good. Just been in the minds, in the podcast minds, just shoveling, shoveling content.
2:32 Speaker 04 Giving the people what they want? I've been living for the bummer pods.
2:38 Pablo Torre? It's, it's, it's endless.
2:42 Speaker 04 I've been living for them. They're so good.
2:44 Pablo Torre? The person who was sitting in the chair that you're sitting in right now, Megan, yesterday, was Mark Cuban, who came in.
2:50 Speaker 04 Oh, really?
2:50 Speaker 01 He came in. He's back. I've been living for that drama.
2:54 Speaker 04 What is he technically now?
2:56 Pablo Torre? He's a minority owner of the Mavericks.
2:57 Speaker 04 Okay, minority owner. And so he can speak on this freely?
3:01 Pablo Torre? I asked him. I was like, what do you think Adam thinks? What do you think Steve thinks? He's like, I don't think the league loves what I'm doing. But he is, he's the guy talking.
3:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
3:13 Pablo Torre? He's the only guy talking.
3:14 Speaker 04 I feel like the league should be like, thank you Pablo for unearthing, unearthing this investigation for us.
3:23 Pablo Torre? I didn't bring you guys in here to talk about me, though.
3:27 Speaker 04 Well, that's what I came in here for. I know. I'm like, do you want to do your own little? It was like, if I don't have papers to flip over, I'm gonna be pissed.
3:34 Pablo Torre? I regret not having the manila folder in front of you.
3:38 Speaker 04 Read that quote.
3:39 Pablo Torre? Sue was the first person to walk into the studio with the cardigan.
3:44 Speaker 01 The cardigan, guys.
3:46 Speaker 04 Oh, my gosh. When we were talking about yesterday, I was like, yes, and you gotta get the cardigan out.
3:51 Speaker 01 And I was like, oh, my God, I have to wear the cardigan.
3:53 Speaker 04 This is awesome.
3:54 Speaker 01 We've addressed this before.
3:55 Pablo Torre? We are, we are.
3:56 Speaker 04 Now we're here.
3:57 Pablo Torre? Like Power Rangers.
3:58 Speaker 04 You took your little bird off, though.
3:59 Pablo Torre? Well, you have, I didn't have a pin that was also my last name. And so.
4:06 Speaker 04 So?
4:06 Pablo Torre? That's clearly what, why you kept it. You have a beautiful, it's like a gull. I don't want to say that. A seabird?
4:13 Speaker 04 I feel like we're Mr. Rogers. We're giving Mr. Rogers vibes.
4:16 Pablo Torre? It's funny. You, we, in retirement, you have become a podcaster in ways that are even beyond my prediction.
4:24 Speaker 04 Oh, beyond your prediction?
4:26 Pablo Torre? You are dressing like me.
4:29 Pablo Torre? Hey.
4:31 Speaker 01 It's getting weird.
4:32 Pablo Torre? You have, you started another show.
4:34 Speaker 01 Emulate the best. I did.
4:36 Pablo Torre? Bird's Eye View, again, the pin doesn't seem accidental.
4:39 Speaker 01 We're always watching, we're always watching.
4:41 Pablo Torre? In addition to A Touch More, which, you know, got, you know, I love.
4:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, we're straight up podcasters now.
4:45 Pablo Torre? You're just [BLEEP] media people. You're just, just, not so different.
4:49 Speaker 01 I actually refuse to be called media. I don't like it.
4:51 Pablo Torre? What would you want to be called?
4:52 Speaker 01 I don't know. Like, a player podcaster, who's not a player anymore.
4:57 Pablo Torre? You guys are talking to microphones, though, and you guys are living a year that has made me laugh because every time I'm like, I wonder if Sue and Megan are in town. I'm like, oh no, there's another street being named after one of them.
5:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:14 Pablo Torre? Can you, okay, how do you describe, I want Megan to describe the year that Sue has had? Because it's, I, I sat down to be like,
5:21 Speaker 01 It's a joke.
5:21 Pablo Torre? What did I miss? And I'm like, this is [BLEEP] absurd.
5:26 Speaker 04 Okay, I want to start with the worst part. Which has just been like, multiple, with the exception of Seattle, where you got your statue, which looks amazing, and that was, you know, in our hometown, so.
5:38 Pablo Torre? We'll get to the statue.
5:38 Speaker 04 We love Seattle, got to be there, do some really fun things. No shade to any of these other cities, but we're spending like, long weekends in these cities, multiple times.
5:49 Speaker 01 Just name them.
5:50 Speaker 04 In the summer.
5:51 Pablo Torre? What are we, what are we, what are we talking? What's the itinerary?
5:54 Speaker 04 We're going to Knoxville. Again, no shade. It's like, it's, we made the best of it. It's cute. Like, they had a great bakery there, they had some good food.
6:00 Pablo Torre? College town.
6:01 Speaker 04 Great college town. Um, the weather was actually pretty good. Then we went to Uncasville, Connecticut.
6:07 Pablo Torre? Absolutely. Shout out to Megan Sun.
6:09 Speaker 04 Shout out to Megan Sun. I walked, I walked on the floor of Megan Sun and yeah.
6:13 Pablo Torre? Man, I went to a bachelor party at Megan Sun.
6:15 Speaker 04 Wow.
6:15 Pablo Torre? Shout out to the, shout out allegedly to the gold club within walking distance.
6:20 Speaker 04 Mm-hmm. And then we were in Springfield, Mass. So it's just.
6:24 Pablo Torre? Not direct flights.
6:26 Speaker 04 Flights, we're driving.
6:27 Speaker 01 Driving.
6:27 Speaker 04 We're driving. So it was not the...
6:30 Speaker 01 But no, not direct flights to Knoxville either. It was not the long weekends I was hoping for during the summer.
6:36 Speaker 04 But with that said, it's just like incredible. It's always like so special. Like it was really, you know, we got to see your family a lot and just having other people come in and people came to the statue and friends. And you've had an iconic career that deserves to be celebrated. And I personally enjoy being party planner. I feel like I love it so much. I'm like, doing the part in Seattle, we rented out Rob Roy, which is one of Sue's favorite cocktail bars. Cute little space. It's kind of like loungy, vibey, like just for...
7:09 Speaker 01 You had a DJ in there?
7:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, we had a DJ, friends and family. I got some balloons in there.
7:15 Speaker 01 What were some of the names of the cocktails?
7:16 Speaker 04 The Aunt Sue, I think that was like a martini. We had the Sue Grony. We had the Puppeteer. Not to be confused with Puppet Eater.
7:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:25 Speaker 04 So, oh my god.
7:27 Pablo Torre? I'm sorry.
7:28 Speaker 01 She had like a special menu made. It was adorable with all of these. Yeah, the Puppeteer. What is Puppeteer?
7:34 Speaker 04 The Puppeteer was maybe an old fashioned, it was like, you know, you're like the...
7:37 Speaker 01 Oh, like a maestro kind of vibe.
7:39 Pablo Torre? A point guard reference.
7:41 Speaker 01 Excuse me, can I have the Puppet Eater?
7:45 Speaker 04 Or there was a Point Goat.
7:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, Point Goat, yeah.
7:47 Speaker 04 So it was fun. I have a lot of fun with it. I'm like, if we're doing it, like we're not going to Applebee's for dinner.
7:52 Pablo Torre? This is why I asked.
7:53 Speaker 04 I'm gonna go hard at it.
7:55 Pablo Torre? You have, in my mind, it's just like you're producing like a series of wedding receptions.
8:01 Speaker 04 Exactly.
8:02 Pablo Torre? Over and over again.
8:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
8:03 Pablo Torre? And there is of course like a standard process for how this goes. Sue has to be regal and respectful and funny and sincere.
8:13 Speaker 01 Well, first of all, you said wedding reception. A lot of these like retirement type moments do feel like it's like a wedding and a funeral in one.
8:22 Pablo Torre? You gotta say hi to everybody.
8:23 Speaker 01 You gotta say hi to everybody, but they're saying all these nice things about you.
8:26 Pablo Torre? Right.
8:27 Speaker 01 The way I, you know, that usually happens at a funeral. And that's kind of the wonderful slash hard part is to just constantly hear all of these really nice things being said about you. One event after another, after another. You don't love that. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I don't like bask in it. But yeah, the best part about the statue reveal day was it was a gorgeous day in Seattle. It was outdoors, obviously, and I got to wear sunglasses. My shades literally were shading me from some of the eyeballs.
8:59 Speaker 06 Everybody with us now. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
9:17 Pablo Torre? Not because you were tearing up, just because you were like, "Thank God I don't need to emote with my eyes so deliberately with the knowledge that I'm being watched."
9:25 Speaker 01 It's a lot of attention.
9:26 Pablo Torre? Yes.
9:26 Speaker 01 It's a lot of attention. But it's also, like I said, it's also like, who am I to complain? It's amazing.
9:30 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I mean, Sue Bird Court.
9:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:33 Pablo Torre? That's now...
9:35 Speaker 01 The people who live on that have to DoorDash their food to Sue Bird Court.
9:39 Pablo Torre? That's pretty great.
9:40 Speaker 01 I know. Do people tag you on that? That's cute.
9:42 Pablo Torre? There's been mugging on Sue Bird Court.
9:45 Speaker 01 The street itself is like this long. It's cute. But yeah, me and Lenny Wilkins Way.
9:51 Pablo Torre? Which is great.
9:51 Speaker 01 There's a corner.
9:52 Pablo Torre? Right, as a kind of pleasure, you know, which is, again, this is Seattle sports royalty. The statue, though, just to be very clear about this, this is the first WNBA player to get a statue ever. This is a huge deal from a just like history of sports statues perspective, which you know I study meticulously on this show.
10:10 Speaker 01 Yes, we're very aware. Do you know that, Meghan? Did you see what? Wait, we haven't even gotten to Butter Sue. Did you see this?
10:17 Pablo Torre? No.
10:18 Speaker 01 You don't know about Butter Sue?
10:19 Pablo Torre? No.
10:20 Speaker 04 This is Butter. This... This is for you. Yeah, we're gonna put it down here. Okay.
10:28 Speaker 01 The weekend of the statue reveal, we did a Touch More Live.
10:33 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
10:34 Speaker 01 So we did a live show, I think it was the night before the statue, right?
10:38 Speaker 04 Yeah.
10:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it was the night before the statue. So Meghan's present to me, live onstage, was a Butter Sue.
10:46 Pablo Torre? Oh, yes.
10:48 Speaker 04 This was the idea our good friends Natalie and Larissa hooked this up for me. I said, "I need an AI mock-up of Butter Sue so I can work off of it." That obviously didn't hap-
11:01 Speaker 01 What's with the bun?
11:03 Speaker 04 Well, listen, you try to do curls in the butter when it's melting when I only have a short amount of time while you're gone this morning. That-
11:11 Speaker 01 Wait, you did this?
11:12 Speaker 04 I did it!
11:13 Speaker 01 Was a butter sue, a bust. It was like a butter sumo. Yeah, it was, and Meghan did it. Meghan made it.
11:20 Pablo Torre? You didn't hire the couple in the Midwest, or in Pennsylvania, excuse me, that we hired here, Paula Torrey finds out, to create Butter Pablo?
11:27 Speaker 01 No, she didn't. And honestly, it was so bad.
11:31 Speaker 04 I mean-
11:31 Speaker 01 I looked like a sumo wrestler. I don't even know what was hap- my nose was like this wa- It was-
11:37 Speaker 04 It was so bad.
11:38 Speaker 01 The sumo wrestler was actually the hair. She tried to get the pony. It looked more like a sumo bun.
11:41 Speaker 04 I didn't have a walk-in freezer to do my craft, my artistry.
11:46 Pablo Torre? Oh yeah, that was a big part of it.
11:48 Speaker 04 So I was like, under such a time crunch, and then it was like, to get any sort of detailing on the face-
11:53 Speaker 01 It's true. I was out of the house for like, two hours, and that was the only-
11:56 Speaker 04 But also like, the butter melts.
11:58 Pablo Torre? It's kind of like what truly prehistoric tribes depicted. It's almost impressionistic.
12:03 Speaker 01 Oh my god. Anyways, a fan wanted it after, so, somebody has that. Yeah. Somebody has, somebody, who knows what they did to butter sue? Maybe they're still just scraping off it. I followed you with the cardigan. I had to follow you with-
12:16 Pablo Torre? It's just an incredible, an incredible, I mean, I can only take it as a compliment.
12:20 Speaker 01 Your fingerprints are all over. A touch more.
12:23 Speaker 04 Absolutely.
12:26 Speaker 01 Thank god the real statue looked a lot better.
12:28 Pablo Torre? Yeah, so, I gotta say, like, part of the whole premise of like, Butter Pablo and all of that, and is that the history of sports statues has been horrific. There have been some bad ones.
12:37 Speaker 04 Terrible.
12:38 Pablo Torre? Whether it's Cristiano Ronaldo, whether it's Dwyane Wade, recently, you go down the list, you know, um, Brandy Chastain had a, if I may say so, just like, not a great, not a great statue. Didn't really look like her. The ultimate compliment to Brandy Chastain is that her statue did not look like her. Her bust. This one-
12:58 Pablo Torre? That's like a top.
12:59 Speaker 04 It's uncanny.
13:00 Speaker 01 I think it might be number one.
13:01 Speaker 04 I think it is.
13:02 Pablo Torre? It's legit.
13:03 Speaker 01 I'm, yeah. Listen, I just told you how much I don't like the attention of that, but that statue, I'm like, that's number one.
13:09 Speaker 04 It doesn't even look like you, like it is you.
13:12 Speaker 01 I walked in.
13:13 Speaker 04 Like your hands.
13:13 Speaker 01 When I saw it.
13:14 Speaker 04 Your nose from underneath, especially because you've broken it so many times and like, just like your body. Yeah. Oh, totally. It's like off the side.
13:22 Speaker 01 When I walked in, it was like the clay version is all I got to see, but it was, it was, it was in, it was the size, but it was just the clay version.
13:28 Pablo Torre? So you see you giving, I mean, it's you, uh, making a layup.
13:32 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I walk in, I'm, I go underneath it. I was blown away by the accuracy. I couldn't believe it.
13:38 Pablo Torre? I was ready to, to just clown on you.
13:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:41 Pablo Torre? And I was like, I was just, I, I respect to the, to the artist, to the sculptor.
13:47 Speaker 04 You did a lot, you like gave a lot of yourself to it though, a lot of feedback, a lot, you were like, you went to the sculptor.
13:54 Speaker 01 So the face is, um, this is what I feel like I learned.
13:57 Speaker 04 You were like in the process though. I will say that.
13:59 Speaker 01 I think everybody is. I don't think that was unique to me.
14:01 Pablo Torre? Well, if those other athletes were, they were not in it enough.
14:04 Speaker 01 So this is, this is what, this is my takeaway from it. Okay. You only see it as it's clay version. I saw like a 12 foot version of it and then you go back, I went to the studio twice, you go back, you see it in full form, but it's still clay. I just think bronze is not a very forgiving material on the face. So anytime you have a facial expression.
14:27 Pablo Torre? For sure.
14:28 Speaker 01 Anytime you have a facial expression or you see a lot of someone's teeth, I think you're in trouble. I think you're asking for trouble if it's like a lot of, you know, like creases, wrinkles, like so Dwyane Wade example.
14:38 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
14:38 Speaker 01 He's like very like, rah, he's got that like, this is my house look. And so it's just bronze is not going to be forgiving. And so my face, you know, when I'm shooting layoffs, apparently I'm, I don't emote. I've got nothing going on there. So it made for, you know, it looks smooth.
14:54 Speaker 04 That was smart, though.
14:55 Speaker 01 I didn't do it on purpose, but now this is my advice.
14:57 Pablo Torre? Look at the guns, though.
14:58 Speaker 01 Well, they got that right, didn't they?
14:59 Pablo Torre? Just, just truly.
15:02 Speaker 04 That's how your shoulders look.
15:03 Speaker 01 That is how my shoulders look.
15:04 Pablo Torre? Those deltoids.
15:05 Speaker 01 No longer, but.
15:08 Pablo Torre? The ponytail.
15:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, the ponytails.
15:10 Pablo Torre? That's the, that's the.
15:11 Speaker 04 Nuts.
15:12 Speaker 01 They got the Harachi 2K4s. Like, that's my favorite shoe I wore in Seattle.
15:17 Speaker 04 Dialed.
15:18 Speaker 01 Wow. They, they, I mean, I've, no notes.
15:20 Pablo Torre? Just, again, impressive, impressive. By the way, my favorite thing, well, to just revisit all of this, is just like Megan with the camera.
15:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:29 Speaker 04 I'm trying to learn, guys.
15:30 Speaker 01 Paparazzi.
15:31 Speaker 04 I'm trying to learn. It's honestly, the camera does 95% of the work. It's a great camera, but I am loving it. It's fun.
15:38 Speaker 01 It's a real camera.
15:38 Speaker 04 There's something to do, and I'm like, I don't.
15:40 Pablo Torre? That's what I'm saying.
15:41 Speaker 04 I'm just looking at all these events, especially these. I'm just like, obviously I'm your plus one and I'm there. So I'm like, I'm gonna make myself.
15:48 Speaker 01 And all the photographers, they, they like see and respect. It's a real camera. This is not digital. This is a film camera. She has to get the exposure right. Obviously you have to focus it. Yeah, you know, you're gonna.
15:59 Speaker 04 I'm trying.
16:00 Speaker 01 It's like a real deal camera. All the photographers, they're always like, oh, is that a Leica? Like, oh.
16:06 Speaker 04 Yeah, I went and bought the nice one, obviously. I needed a lot of help.
16:08 Speaker 01 It's like instant respect.
16:09 Pablo Torre? I like Megan just wearing like the photographers like vest.
16:13 Speaker 04 I'm gonna get in there.
16:14 Speaker 01 We need to get you a neon joint.
16:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm gonna get in there. I need to, I need to properly shoot a game.
16:18 Pablo Torre? But there's a thing in sports where a lot of like Hall of Fame retired athletes, we've seen Marshawn Lynch do it. Randy Johnson.
16:25 Speaker 04 Ken Griffey Jr. Also.
16:26 Pablo Torre? Ken Griffey Jr.
16:27 Speaker 04 Seattle thing.
16:28 Pablo Torre? Why do you think pro athletes, as a pro athlete, why do you think photography is this thing that like, I don't know? It seems like you people are into.
16:37 Speaker 04 I think sports people too, I think sports people, athletes. Sportsters.
16:42 Pablo Torre? You guys really are becoming podcasts.
16:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, I know.
16:45 Pablo Torre? What do you call it? You know, you sports people.
16:47 Speaker 04 Sport people are inherently creative in some kind of way. And when I stopped playing, I found that there was a big absence in creativity and being able to just do stuff and have fun and whatever. So I'm trying.
17:00 Pablo Torre? But what's funny is Hall of Fame Springfield in the big Hall of Immortals. And Megan's like right there with the camera.
17:08 Speaker 04 Yeah.
17:08 Pablo Torre? It's like, seat right next to Sue, just like real close up.
17:11 Speaker 04 Yep.
17:12 Pablo Torre? You looked calm. You looked, did it feel, what's, again, I want your point of view, Megan. I'm just like, did that feel a moment apart from the previous things? Because it was the thing. It's the Hall of Fame.
17:27 Speaker 04 You did feel calm. I think your statue and the Naismith Hall of Fame, no, those two.
17:33 Speaker 01 I know, but I had done the women's.
17:34 Speaker 04 Yeah, you'd already done women's basketball. You'd already done all the retirement stuff. Like you're kind of seasoned in it. I feel like you were like, this is amazing. And you're so proud and this is incredible. There's no way to feel really, truly like the magnitude of what that means. It's like you can't really take all that in. That's going to be like a lifetime sort of thing that you just have. But you were really relaxed. I think the hardest part was writing all these speeches in such a short.
18:00 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I want to know about how you. And by the way, unsurprising to hear and learn in context now that you've had a whole, by that point, you've just been doing stuff along these lines.
18:11 Speaker 04 Yeah.
18:12 Pablo Torre? So Sue was just like ready for this moment.
18:15 Speaker 01 It was like 10,000 hours.
18:16 Pablo Torre? Absolutely.
18:17 Speaker 01 I was at my 10,000 hour moment. That's what you got at the Naismith Hall of Fame, for sure. This moment is truly overwhelming. There are hundreds of people in here I could thank, and those are probably just my surgeons. It's been so wonderful, though, seeing so many familiar faces.
18:34 Pablo Torre? In terms of just like how to write, I remember talking to Ezra, our friend Ezra, being like, can we write, Sue? Can we just?
18:41 Speaker 01 Can we contribute?
18:42 Pablo Torre? Can we?
18:43 Speaker 01 I think my jersey's getting retired at UConn, so if I need a speech, it's on you, too. I'm calling you guys.
18:48 Speaker 04 Honestly, just bring them up.
18:51 Speaker 04 Like we were on behalf of Sue.
18:53 Pablo Torre? It's a manila folder, put down on the podium.
18:56 Speaker 04 Ezra, flip that paper over.
18:59 Speaker 01 Oh, man. But yeah, no, I think there is something to having to do a bunch of speeches in a short period of time on the same topic. Yeah, exactly. And trying to figure out. So in this really wonderful way, well, man, if we take it back, this one's still tough. If we take it back to my retirement speech, okay. This is what happened in my retirement speech. I don't know if you've ever looked this up. It was over an hour. I literally talked for over an hour. Yeah. That's like a congressional filibuster. Yes, no idea. She was filibustering. I really felt, little did I know, I was gonna give like three more speeches in the next two years. I felt like it was my last chance to talk to the city of Seattle. And I got it all out there. Seattle wasn't always home. But that's exactly what it became. And that's in large part to all of you.
19:45 Speaker 01 The minute I walked off, the first thing I said was like, was that too long? I said, no, baby. It's totally fine. Everyone was like, no, no, no, it was fine. It's like Robyn does like three hour pods. That's totally fine. I held that whole arena hostage. But I really felt, I was like, for me, it wasn't just a career, it was a life that I lived there. And I was, I needed to thank everyone. And I think the best thing, you know, other than being completely embarrassed about that, the best thing that happened was, I really thanked everybody. So now when you look, or you fast forward, or I fast forward to these other speeches, I didn't feel that pressure. I got to say what I wanted to say. And especially since Naismith was last. So I did Women's Basketball Hall of Fame. I did the statue. And now I could really just talk about more of a theme.
20:30 Speaker 01 And the theme of my speech was belonging. And how sports gave me, like basketball specifically, gave me a belonging. My mom Nancy didn't care whether I won or lost. She just gave me the freedom and space to find my belonging. My dad Herschel loves the game and always challenged me to be my best, which eventually backfired when I started beating him one on one.
20:50 Pablo Torre? Had you heard her rehearse it a bunch by that point?
20:53 Speaker 01 I mean, probably nine thousand times. She is an outward processor. Oh, yeah. But she also like- External processor. You like stopped listening. Yeah. Like, you were there in body, but not like, I don't think her actual ears were on. No, I was. I was. Because I'd be like, tighten that up, or tighten this up. I just did this one more time. Also, it got to the point where you were like, oh, you don't even have to listen, I'm just gonna say it loud. And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not. Because there were a couple of things, timing-wise, I wanted to nail. Yeah. There was like some comedic timing I wanted to nail. Which I do like that. I like workshopping a joke. Yeah.
21:28 Pablo Torre? Yeah, you had a joke about LeBron and D Wade and Chris Bosh-
21:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's a true story, by the way.
21:34 Pablo Torre? -planning the Miami Heat at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.
21:36 Speaker 01 It was a joke, but it's also true. I remember that Olympics well. It was a great Olympics. Both teams hanging out, winning gold. I mean, it was kind of weird how LeBron, Chris, and Dwayne kept yapping about three-year deals with a player option. And, "Where do you want to take your talents?" "Where do you want to take your talents?" I don't know, I tuned it out. I'm sure Mickey could probably tell you guys about that later. But Beijing was fun. The true story is, like, they have a players lounge, we all hang out, only the players can go in there. So it's the men's and women's teams. We're talking card games, hanging out, the whole nine. This one particular night, I was talking to D Wade about who knows what.
22:19 Speaker 01 And he kind of said something like, "Yeah, Carmelo, he like signed the extension. He's locked in for like however many years. He signed the extension." He's like, "We all opted out. So because we opted out, we're all gonna be free agents at the same time." And I was like, "Oh, interesting." Honestly, he was just talking. He didn't actually make reference to them joining, you know, to taking their talents, so to speak.
22:38 Pablo Torre? But the "we" that he's referring to-
22:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:40 Pablo Torre? Is-
22:41 Speaker 01 It was him, Chris, and LeBron, for sure. So he was just like telling me about NBA free agency. And it wasn't until, what, two years later, a year or two later, when they all go, and I was like, "Oh!" Like, that's what he was referring to. I didn't know in the moment that they were plotting. But then you rewind, you look back on that conversation, I was like, "Oh my God, I saw like the genesis of the super team." The big three.
23:03 Pablo Torre? You've revealed yourself to truly not be a journalist, Sue. You just heard that and you're like, "Huh!"
23:09 Speaker 01 Two years later. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. Like, yeah, we can all be free at the same time. I was like, cool. Whatever.
23:17 Pablo Torre? That seems fun for you.
23:19 Speaker 01 And then Mello, I talked to Mello about it. He was like, I didn't think we were gonna lock out. I didn't think there was gonna be, I don't know what the lockout, like how that played into it, but that was his thinking on it.
23:29 Pablo Torre? Oh, he wanted the, uh, he wanted to opt in the guarantees. Yeah, something like that. Not one, not two.
23:36 Speaker 01 By the way, I toyed with that joke. So you wanna hear another true story about my Hall of Fame speech? The original joke, as written on the teleprompter, even when I got up there, was, yeah, and then I overheard them being like, not one, not two, not three. That was gonna be the joke. But Mickey Arison, he did his speech before me.
23:51 Pablo Torre? Owner of the Heat?
23:52 Speaker 01 Owner of the Heat. And he made that joke.
23:55 Speaker 07 But then in 2010, with Dwayne, LeBron, and Chris Bosh, we knew we could win. Not one, not two.
24:05 Speaker 07 I guess it was just two.
24:08 Speaker 01 So in real time, I look at Meghan, I'm like, I think I have to change the joke. I can't make the same joke. What am I gonna do? So the next like 30 minutes in my head was like toying with what to do. And then I went with take my talents. Which is what I wanted originally. That is what you wanted originally.
24:21 Pablo Torre? I want to observe one thing before seizing on a segue that you've offered me there, perhaps inadvertently, which is, I was like, what is Meghan's timeline on Hall of Fame stuff gonna be? And I was just like Googling, and the first article I found was an article from Reuters. It was June 21st, 2024. Fact check, colon, Megan Rapinoe not disqualified from US Soccer Hall of Fame.
24:49 Speaker 01 For what? What?
24:50 Pablo Torre? Someone, there'd been, there'd been-
24:52 Speaker 01 For kneeling?
24:53 Pablo Torre? There'd been some social media post that Reuters needed to fact check.
24:58 Speaker 01 That claimed-
24:59 Pablo Torre? And the caption was, Megan Rapinoe has been disqualified from the Soccer Hall of Fame, quote, she's a bad role model, end quote. And I'm happy to announce that this has been labeled, hold on, where is it? False.
25:15 Speaker 01 False.
25:17 Speaker 01 They picked a real good picture of you.
25:18 Pablo Torre? Great photo. So congratulations on not being disqualified. And remaining eligible.
25:24 Speaker 01 What are the rules? Five years or something? After retirement? Five years or three years? Ours, it used to be five and now it's three. I think it's three. I think it's three. You're on the clock?
25:32 Pablo Torre? 2027.
25:33 Speaker 01 2027.
25:34 Pablo Torre? Is the first year that you're eligible.
25:37 Speaker 01 Frisco, Texas. Oh, another banger of a city we're headed to.
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27:29 Pablo Torre? The other segue that I was about to seize upon when you mentioned lockout is just what a time to be a power couple, as I've long established you guys, in which both of you have had experience, like truly unparalleled collective experience, trying to deal with the issue of players' salaries in women's sports. Indeed. The State of the Union. Indeed. It's become a thing that's broken, contained. Yes.
27:59 Speaker 08 The biggest news in the W is the searing comments from Nafisa Collier in her exit interview earlier this morning.
28:05 Speaker 09 At Unrivaled this past February, I sat across from Kathy and asked how she planned to address the officiating issues in our league. Her response was, well, only the losers complain about the refs. I also asked how she planned to fix the fact that players like Katelyn, Angel, and Paige, who are clearly driving massive revenue for the league, are making so little for their first four years. Her response was, Katelyn should be grateful she makes 16 million off the court because without the platform that the WNBA gives her, she wouldn't make anything.
28:35 Speaker 09 And in that same conversation, she told me, players should be on their knees thanking their lucky stars for the media rights deal that I got them.
28:42 Speaker 10 I'm a human too. I have a family. I have two kids who are devastated by these comments, and so all I'll say is just, you know, it's obviously been a tough week, and I just think there's a lot of inaccuracy up there.
28:58 Pablo Torre? This has, of course, been the thing that has been very near and dear to you guys. So I want to just start from the perspective of like, now people are like asking, who don't know anything. And I'm closer to, I want to represent that side of the dynamic here. So. Sue, what is, where are we? How can you begin to describe this with all of the caveats and disclosures in mind?
29:23 Speaker 01 Okay. Disclaimer incoming, yeah.
29:25 Pablo Torre? I know.
29:26 Speaker 01 Sue is a minority owner of the Seattle Storm.
29:28 Pablo Torre? Sue's management.
29:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, Sue's management. Um, God, how do I explain? I will say, the one interesting byproduct of everything we've seen, really in the last like two years in the WNBA, but then if you zoom, like zoom in on the last, what, two weeks? Everybody wants to talk about it. Everybody's got questions, people want to understand. The wonderful thing is, we have a great media deal, there is a ton of revenue. I think players deserve to get paid. I think overall, like, the, I guess, company line really should be like, players deserve to get paid, everybody agrees with that. You know, we want the business to be set up to grow. And both those things, I think, can happen.
30:10 Speaker 01 And if the, I'm not in the rooms, if we can get to that, I think we're gonna have a great agreement. But, the relationship has soured a little bit. And that's with Nafisa and Kathy and the whole thing.
30:23 Pablo Torre? So the thing that went super viral was Nafisa Collier, just, I mean, again, one of the executives at the union, who also happens to be a co-founder of Unrivaled, the offseason league that has become, in the framing of this, both an incredible source of leverage ostensibly, but also a competitor to the WNBA. And your mileage varies on which one it is, depending on how tense this negotiation ends up being. But, that spotlight was shined, I think, for the first time, in a very obvious way, on Kathy Engelbert, the commissioner. And quietly, as someone who has been interested in and around various, you know, women's
31:04 Pablo Torre? basketball conversations, gatherings, games and stuff, I'd always heard Kathy isn't perhaps the most inspiring commissioner. The longest, uh, sort of like, view of her would be, maybe she's not going to be the forever commissioner of this league.
31:26 Pablo Torre? I don't think you're allowed. Can you talk? Okay, can you?
31:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:31 Pablo Torre? What is your view of Kathy?
31:32 Speaker 01 Only because we're not married.
31:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
31:34 Pablo Torre? Is that, is that, is that real?
31:35 Speaker 01 That's like, kind of accurate.
31:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
31:37 Speaker 01 I don't know how like, if it's like a rule, or if it's just a, but, go ahead.
31:42 Speaker 04 And pretty soon, we'll never be able to, so we'll just-
31:44 Pablo Torre? I was gonna say.
31:44 Speaker 04 We'll just forever be like, able to talk about this stuff, thanks to the Trump administration.
31:48 Pablo Torre? I'd like to thank this administration for allowing transparency.
31:52 Speaker 04 Shout out to the homies.
31:56 Pablo Torre? Your translation of like, what's really happening here, from your point of view?
32:00 Speaker 04 I think that there's lots of roles and hats that the commissioner wears and has to do. Kathy has obviously presided over an incredible growth period. Some of that, out of everybody's control, some of that, just like, that [BLEEP] just happened. Great. Some of it, I think she's, you know, had her hand in, and obviously has a lot of business experience, and I think that's bode well for the growth of the league, and they did the raise, and all of the things. For me, I just see there's like, a relationship breakdown. And listen, I feel like this is really normal. When business is booming, I feel like the CBA negotiations are contentious. Like, the players want more, and the owners want to give less.
32:41 Speaker 04 It's like, generally how it goes, and this is a unique time when we're outgrown the CBA, probably by like, two years. But, that's, that's what it is. Like, the players signed it, the owners signed, like, this is, this is where we're at. So it's just tough when the business that the players are participating in off the field, they're seeing a increase, or they're seeing that business grow in their own bank account, but not seeing it grow over here, because it can't yet, because we're negotiating the CBA right now. But I think with Kathy, if, you know, I have to like, point to a failure, it's clearly that the trust and the relationship with the players has really broken down.
33:23 Speaker 04 And they're, you know, saying things that happened in private meetings. It seems like they feel like they're not being heard, and so this is their only lever to pull, to like, get their side of the story out there. And I do think that's on Kathy. Like, ultimately, yeah, everybody needs to conduct themselves in the best way possible, but like, you're the figurehead, and so I think she could have done a better job at- Maybe having more open ears or hearing them more or giving in some areas where she could, knowing that she's gonna have to say no in other areas. But I think what's happened is she's just become like the like, oh, we can just dump everything here, things that like, aren't her fault, like, things that she's not even
34:07 Speaker 04 responsible for, it's just like, oh, now we have you to dump it on. And she's not really able, from a PR perspective, to combat that, or to bring her side of the story in a way that is effective, ultimately. Like, it doesn't really matter if she's likable or not, or blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, ultimately, you have to be effective, and especially in the court of public opinion. And the players have been very effective, and I don't think Kathy has been effective in that way, which is, like, piss the players off, frankly.
34:36 Pablo Torre? So just to explain how this all works, that was very well, well done.
34:40 Speaker 04 That was very.
34:40 Pablo Torre? And for the record.
34:41 Speaker 04 I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but you.
34:43 Pablo Torre? No, no, Sue.
34:44 Speaker 04 You got to the point.
34:45 Pablo Torre? Sue almost buried her entire skull in her hands.
34:47 Speaker 04 Yeah.
34:48 Pablo Torre? Just to make very clear.
34:49 Speaker 04 She's always like, what is she gonna say?
34:51 Pablo Torre? But the dynamic here is unique, because the WNBA has always negotiated inside of what the NBA does. And so the NBA triples its rights deal, fantastic for the rising tide lifting all boats, presumably. But the WNBA, and this is the way that I summarize for people who don't know, has gone from a thing like, people used to say, you should be into that because it's interesting or good or important, to just like, a real business that you can be into for just greedy financial reasons.
35:19 Speaker 04 Just be greedy. Just be greedy about it. Good business.
35:21 Pablo Torre? It's just, it's capitalism.
35:22 Speaker 04 We'd love for good people to come, for that reason. Ben wanting that, yeah.
35:25 Pablo Torre? The greatest compliment you can give the rise of women's sports is that you could be in it just because you're greedy.
35:30 Speaker 04 Yeah.
35:31 Pablo Torre? Because you want to make money.
35:32 Speaker 04 Yeah.
35:33 Pablo Torre? But the, the way it works is, so Adam Silver is a top of all of this in terms of the commissioner of the NBA, of course. Kathy, in that dynamic, is the head of the WNBA, but the WNBA is inside of the Russian nesting doll that is the league broadly. And so Kathy, when it comes to like, the various things people blame her for, you didn't handle the Katelyn Clark experience well enough, didn't maximize it, she didn't feel included enough. Certainly communications with Fee, in terms of unrivaled, in terms of now this recent press conference, into just, who do we, to your point, Megan, who do we blame as things are not? Happening, CBA, boring timeline-related reasons where you can't really just flip a switch and be like, "Everyone's making money!"
36:16 Speaker 01 No.
36:17 Pablo Torre? In the way that you want to now.
36:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:18 Pablo Torre? I want to be realistic about that. But the question I have for Meghan.
36:21 Speaker 01 I'll answer the best I can. You might be able to answer, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see.
36:26 Pablo Torre? Is Kathy Yenkeberg somebody who can keep that job?
36:31 Speaker 04 I mean, maybe. I think she can keep it through the negotiations. I think it's gonna take some repair. I think it's both, like, personal and not personal. Like, at the end of the day, Nekka said this the other day.
36:46 Pablo Torre? Ogunke.
36:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, Nekka Ogunke, president of the WMBPA.
36:53 Speaker 01 WMBPA.
36:54 Speaker 04 WMBPA, I always [bleep] up. The union. Like, it's business, ultimately. But like, you want to have calm labor negotiations. You want to have the ability to, yes, like, it's gonna hurt both sides. Like, that's a good negotiation. When you walk out and you're like, "Ew, I didn't get everything I wanted, but I got some things." But I think that is Kathy's relationship to repair. And I think she has some work to do that. So, she can, but I don't see a commissioner presiding over a league who, you know, seemingly is this, like, unliked.
37:34 Pablo Torre? It feels, I will say this bluntly as well, as much as I can. It feels like what Nafisa said was said with the intention of, "We don't want to deal with her anymore." Like, this is not a try to come back to the table. It's like, you are, like, this is, "We don't trust you."
37:53 Speaker 01 The only thing I'm gonna throw in the ring is just, again, I do think to understand where we are now in this moment, you have to understand the history and how it got to this point. I think it's such a big part of it. The WNBA players, myself included when I was playing, were really, I mean, a lot of times at wits' end on how to get people to see what is going on here. Like, how do you pull back the curtains for people? How do you get them to pay attention to discrepancies, to ways in which we've been held back? It's been very frustrating. And we learned, and then were incentivized to do it publicly.
38:34 Pablo Torre? Yes.
38:34 Speaker 01 To take it to the court of public opinion. And that would show up in, you know, obviously, Fee sitting down with a statement for four minutes is a first.
38:42 Pablo Torre? To start her, like, exit interview for the season.
38:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:44 Pablo Torre? Like playoffs, she, Lynx lose, and guess what? Here is a prepared.
38:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, a prepared statement. So like, the length of it and, you know, the point she was making, that's unique to this moment and to her. But, you know, whether it's in the social activism space.
39:00 Pablo Torre? Yeah, you guys flipped a senate seat.
39:02 Speaker 01 Yeah. And how'd we do that? We wore some t-shirts.
39:04 Speaker 11 A political statement tonight from members of the Atlanta Dream against their owner. Dream player Elizabeth Williams tweeted this photograph right here, wearing a Vote Warnock shirt.
39:15 Pablo Torre? Kelly Loeffler, who was an owner, got effectively ousted from the US senate.
39:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:20 Pablo Torre? In favor of Raphael Warnock, who remains there because of you motherf**ers. It's like legitimately a crazy story.
39:26 Speaker 01 Basically. You kind of like flipped the election.
39:28 Pablo Torre? Yeah, kind of.
39:29 Speaker 01 It's wild.
39:30 Pablo Torre? You kind of made an enormous difference in American politics.
39:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, and again, through the course of the last 10 years, I would say, we really learned the only way people hear us is if we f**ing scream about it and we go and we take it public. One of the stories, I just told this one recently, we get to the bubble, right? So we're in this bubble season, we've negotiated. And we arrive, and some of the housing was like townhomes. And there was a laundry room that was, I don't know, like one on each floor, kind of a thing. And one of the players went to the laundry room the first day, and it was disgusting. It was just absolutely disgusting. Now, we're meant to live in this place for like three months. And we brought it to the attention of the WNBA and like the powers that be, and nothing got done. And then it took a player, it was Alicia Clark, going on First Take, I think it was, going on some ESPN show
40:16 Speaker 01 because she was friends with a producer, so it got her on, to show pictures of this laundry room, to talk about it, because somebody posted it. Obviously, this reminds us of Sedona Prince.
40:26 Pablo Torre? I was gonna say.
40:27 Speaker 01 The TikTok and the NCAA tournament.
40:28 Pablo Torre? The women's tournament.
40:29 Speaker 12 I got something to show y'all. So for the NCAA March Madness, the biggest tournament in college basketball for women, this is our weight room. Let me show y'all the men's weight room.
40:41 Speaker 01 As women, as female athletes, we have been incentivized to do this. It's the only way people pay attention. And so that is how and why we're able to and why we do it now.
40:51 Pablo Torre? Look, the Sedona Prince thing, I remember it being so effective because abstractly you hear, like, wow, all these women's college players are complaining about how their weight room is not good enough. You're like, whatever.
41:04 Speaker 01 What does that even mean?
41:05 Pablo Torre? And then you see the photo and it's like, oh, yeah, that sucks. Like, that's crazily different from what the men get.
41:11 Speaker 01 All the different meals that people were getting in their COVID bubbles, where the NCAA tournament bubble, our bubble.
41:16 Pablo Torre? Right.
41:16 Speaker 01 Like, it's just the only way. You have to show people.
41:19 Speaker 04 And the power of that is increasing because the players are superstars now. They're huge, way bigger than they were before. And they have that, like, attention-grabbing ability that sort of like outsizes what's happening and what they feel like is happening in the league. So it's like, you know, they're making whatever, a couple hundred thousand dollars in league and $10 million off the floor. Like, that's just a huge imbalance. And so they have this microphone, so to speak, that they can leverage and use. And like, ultimately, the league doesn't have that. They have to combat that, but like, people want to hear from players they don't want to hear from, Kathy or the league. But when they do that, you have to have like a mechanism to capture that to be effective.
42:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, and the only other thing I want to add to this whole, like, being incentivized, the thing that we always struggled with was what is the line between pointing these things out and [BLEEP] on yourself?
42:12 Pablo Torre? Hmm.
42:12 Speaker 01 So what's the line? Like, look how bad this is.
42:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, like the narrative.
42:16 Speaker 01 And yes, hopefully, half the people are like, that's [BLEEP] up. But then the other half are going to be like, huh, yeah, your weight room should suck. You don't deserve more than that. And so to point those things out, you're taking that risk. And the difference now is, the business is booming.
42:31 Pablo Torre? Well, this is.
42:31 Speaker 01 I don't think the risk is as great.
42:33 Pablo Torre? I think about this in terms of the wage scale. Because the wage scale, it's like, again, we use Katelyn Clark because it's the most convenient example, but it's like Katelyn Clark's making $70,000 as a number one overall pick in year one in the WNBA. And part of it is, again, sticker shock of like, holy [BLEEP]. That said.
42:53 Pablo Torre? There's also, I think, the concern of, oh, that's what they've been tolerating. And so the question of like, how much more do you need to go above that? It's sort of like, if that's where the bar is now, the other question is, how much more can you ask for? If sort of like, the standard has been so low.
43:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think this is where that media deal is just the proof's in the pudding. I don't, I don't really view it that way. I think this, that deal represents, I, I, I don't know, like, so don't quote me exactly. I think our previous media deal was like 22 million. Criminal. I'm not even joking. Are you looking it up? Can you see if you can find it before I keep on my soapbox?
43:36 Pablo Torre? Here it is. Uh, right. So in 2014, it was ESPN, it was WNBA, uh, the TV rights deal, which was 25 million per year, according to Sports Business Journal, to Sue's point.
43:47 Speaker 01 But here we are now, and we have a 2.2 billion with a B, billion with a B, dollar, media deal, over 11 years. I'm bad at math, so it's, how much a year? Do we know? Anyone?
43:59 Pablo Torre? I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it's,
44:02 Speaker 01 200 a year?
44:03 Pablo Torre? It's about that, yes.
44:04 Speaker 01 Okay, so let's call it 200 a year. We went from 20 to 30 million a year to 200 a year.
44:11 Pablo Torre? It's wild.
44:12 Speaker 01 Assuming some form of a rev share gets kicked into the CBA, which obviously they're negotiating, I really don't know, I'm not in the rooms, I don't want to emphasize that. But at the same time, like, you assume some, this media deal, obviously, the players are gonna get something of it. Already, boom, you're gonna see salaries go up. I mean, who knows, hundreds of thousands of dollars, right out the gate.
44:30 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
44:31 Speaker 01 And it's not a risk, it's not a question mark, it's not if we get this, we have it. We have 200-plus million dollars a year from the media deal. And we all know, that's how sports leagues thrive. Yeah. It's this media deal, and we finally got it.
44:44 Pablo Torre? Do you have a point of view on like, how to negotiate in public about this stuff? Because...
44:52 Pablo Torre? I dare say you were
44:54 Speaker 04 Aggressively.
44:54 Pablo Torre? You were allegedly disqualified from your Hall of Fame for having to be a cousin of us.
44:59 Speaker 04 Yeah.
45:00 Pablo Torre? I think about all of the time. And this is why I love, frankly, I love labor law is because of sports. It's like sports provides this venue for Americans who don't care about labor and management and the dynamic they're in to actually engage with it because it affects things they care about. And with you and the USWNT and how to fight for fair wages. Look, it's different from a pro league. Like in any pro sport that I've covered.
45:30 Speaker 04 No, yeah, it's very different.
45:31 Pablo Torre? The NFL, the NBA, WNBA now, like what's the number one threat a player has? It's that you don't play the games. That's always in the back of my mind is like, when do you actually threaten the thing that results in the money? The media, the rights deal, the actual gate, all that stuff. Explain what the weapons you had in front of you were when it came to the women's national soccer team.
45:56 Speaker 04 Well, this is why I love media because we had a media was our biggest weapon and our faces in front of the media. And winning all the time, which I feel like the W has that. They are collectively winning. They have superstars. They have ultra superstars in the league. And the players have, as the owners have, and everybody has in the W, I really do feel this, like sacrificed a lot. And so they are frustrated by that of the amount of investment that they've had to make with like no return. Like you made 20 years of investment and you got one good contract out of it. Two. And you're not gonna get two good contracts out of it and you're not gonna-
46:40 Pablo Torre? And a street.
46:42 Speaker 04 You know, and a street and a statue. And you're not going to get the return. So it's like owners make investments. They get the return. So I think at this moment, really what's happening is like, it's like, who's going to make the bigger investment? Because if the players make the investment, that really means like, taking less to continue to grow the league so that ultimately the next CBA will be even better. But they're never really going to see that. Like you just get your contract, you play for it, and then some players are going to be out of the league. You're never going to get it back. Owners are going to see their valuations go up. And I think that's what players are are looking at. Like business is booming, your valuations are going up. I know you need to reinvest in the league, but like, eventually, you know, Golden State, even in the first year, they can sell for 500 million or 700 million.
47:25 Pablo Torre? The Valkyries.
47:25 Speaker 04 The Valkyries.
47:26 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
47:27 Speaker 04 So I feel like in terms of the public strategy, always leave the doors open. Like, I don't think players should be like, oh, Kathy has to go or we're not playing. I don't think, because it's just like, you never know where things are going to go. Always leave the door open. Negotiate in good faith. Go really hard at it. Work stoppages are like catastrophic. And especially this, like, everybody's winning here. The W is doing great.
47:52 Pablo Torre? Oh, it's the nuclear, it's the closest thing to the nuclear option, right? Because everybody gets mad at that point.
47:56 Speaker 04 Yeah, and it's like, it's unfavorable in the public. People don't want that. Maybe it'd be more favorable for a women's team to do that. Frankly, I think a lot of times when the men's teams lock out, it's like, oh, you're making $20 million anyways. Like, you're just whatever. Meanwhile, the owners are greedy too. But I do think that the players need to keep that in the forefront. It is a tool, for sure. But like, it's it's a blunt object and it's a bad one if you have to use it. So like, continue to show up, ask for the things that you want. Hear the other side do, you're gonna have to give. Like, that's a successful negotiation when when it hurts a little bit on both sides.
48:31 Speaker 01 What I always find interesting is how soccer and basketball, how the US Women's National Team and the WNBA, this is like so different. Because the WNBA, well, now it's like 156 players, which will go up to, you know, give or take 180 or so when we add two more teams next year. But it was 144 for a really long time.
48:49 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
48:49 Speaker 01 12 teams, 12 spots. And so that's like, you're dealing with a lot of different experiences. Whereas for you guys, it's one team. And it's part of a, a, a national governing body. Right? So it's like a nonprofit. Whereas we're like, obviously a for-profit business. So it's like totally different in terms of what you're negotiating, what you can ask for, the rules around it. So there is a difference. Yeah. I actually don't know your answer to this question. For me and for the WNBA on the last CBA, we really tried to set it up where come this CBA, we could just be talking about money.
49:21 Pablo Torre? Hmm.
49:22 Speaker 01 So we got 100% maternity leave. We got, um, this is gonna sound crazy, but it was a big thing. Um, we got, everybody had their own room on the road. So for, who knows? Let's call it six, seven years prior. In the CBA before the one they're in currently now. It was like, you only got your own room after six years of service. You had a room with people in your first six years. So. So we got everybody their own room. That was, that was a win. Things like economy to economy plus. Everybody now had to be in economy plus or whatever the airline calls it.
49:54 Pablo Torre? You, you divas.
49:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know. But these slowly but surely, and obviously now you fast forward, they were able to do this mid-CBA. They've got charter flights. So that's checked. So there's a lot of things, a lot of boxes that we got checked in the last CBA. And there's so many things, there's so many things. You're lucky if you get three of them. And we got a lot of them in the last CBA.
50:17 Pablo Torre? It almost sounds though, like it was accomplished those things with the goal of, we wanna clear the decks for the actual.
50:26 Speaker 01 Conversation.
50:26 Pablo Torre? For the fight.
50:27 Speaker 01 For the money, yeah.
50:28 Pablo Torre? Which is always gonna be the money.
50:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, but we knew that meant it was growing.
50:32 Pablo Torre? How would you describe the various, uh, contract timing decisions that have been made? In terms of players who happen to be conveniently seemingly aligned on this?
50:46 Speaker 01 We signed that last CBA in like January of 2020. We knew it was like six-year deal with an opt-out, whatever it was. Honestly, everybody, I think every player understood in that moment, we were gonna be opting out, no matter what. Like, I didn't see a scenario where we weren't. So that happened. But even prior to that, two, three years ago, you started hearing players, started seeing the contracts they were signing. Everybody was understanding that our media deal was gonna be big. And then, obviously, now you enter Katelyn Clark. You enter Angel Reese. You enter this new wave of players. And it's like, oh, it's definitely gonna be big. No player signed a deal that went past, except for like two. I think there's two.
51:22 Pablo Torre? Out of the 144?
51:24 Speaker 01 Out of the 144, I think there's like two or three vets that have a deal that extends one more year past this year.
51:29 Pablo Torre? Wow.
51:29 Speaker 01 And then it's all the rookies who got drafted in the last couple of years are still on their rookie deal.
51:33 Speaker 04 And those salaries will go up to whatever the minimum of their salaries.
51:36 Speaker 01 So if Katelyn's at the 70-whatever thousand-dollar mark, let's say the new minimum of the next CBA is 250, she'll jump to that. But every single other player, every single other player's deal ran out or is running out this year. They will all be free agents. Plus, plus, two expansion drafts.
51:55 Pablo Torre? That's wild.
51:55 Speaker 04 The GMs are about to earn every single cent.
51:58 Pablo Torre? Oh, my God.
51:58 Speaker 04 It's really gonna separate some people, I think.
52:01 Speaker 01 It's gonna take the first domino to fall. So some player will get signed to something, and it'll set the market value for everybody.
52:07 Pablo Torre? I don't know of a scenario that's like that.
52:10 Speaker 01 Me neither.
52:11 Pablo Torre? In pro sports history.
52:12 Speaker 01 Unprecedented.
52:13 Pablo Torre? Because the entire thing I just said before is, what happens if the players don't play? Well, here you have a true, like, crossroads where the players are not even under contract.
52:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:25 Speaker 04 Yeah.
52:25 Pablo Torre? It's not they'd have to sit out. It's like, they're just not gonna, they might not sign. As they say in Jurassic Park. Clever girl.
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53:13 Speaker 14 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.
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54:19 Pablo Torre? My favorite moment from your parade of honors, which was Stud Buds, you guys, Adam Silver.
54:30 Speaker 01 It's the best ever.
54:31 Pablo Torre? In a photograph.
54:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:32 Pablo Torre? So for those not familiar with the Commissioner of the NBA, how would you describe Instagram account?
54:37 Speaker 01 I mean, it's just, um, yeah. I actually love it. It's like a name drop, but like, it's good.
54:42 Pablo Torre? It's a captionless, just like, series of here, like.
54:46 Speaker 01 I was here.
54:46 Pablo Torre? Exactly.
54:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, here I am. Yeah, it's like Flat Stanley. Yeah, yeah, 100%. It's a Flat Stanley in real life. I think it's great.
54:54 Pablo Torre? It is.
54:55 Speaker 01 I really enjoy it. These are the places I go and the things I've seen and the people I'm around.
54:58 Pablo Torre? Much like Meghan, Adam Silver loves his collection of photographs.
55:03 Speaker 01 I love it.
55:03 Pablo Torre? And the number one photograph that.
55:07 Pablo Torre? Took over my algorithm, my feed, was you two, the stud buds, who again, please explain the stud buds, because I can't
55:15 Speaker 01 Okay.
55:16 Pablo Torre? Really do justice to the term or the characters.
55:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, Courtney Williams and Natasha Heidman, longtime teammates.
55:22 Pablo Torre? The Lynx.
55:22 Speaker 01 Play on the Lynx now, have played together for many, many years. Best friends, decided to start a livestream on Twitch.
55:29 Speaker 04 Natasha basically backs Courtney up, like Natasha comes off the bench.
55:33 Speaker 01 Oh.
55:33 Speaker 04 And Courtney starts. So it's like, they're in the same position. They're best buds. It's like the most beautiful, like, little friendship ever. It's so cute.
55:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, to see them on this stream.
55:42 Pablo Torre? It's great content.
55:43 Speaker 01 Is to know them.
55:55 Speaker 01 This is who they are. This is not a performance. Yeah, vibes are always, I mean, Courtney is like a one-liner queen. Anytime she's getting pulled at halftime to do an interview, do not change your channel. Like, something's coming out of her mouth. And so they came up with the name Stud Buds. Stud, obviously referring to them both being gay, both being more like mask-presenting, so that's the stud. And then you know what a bud is. They're buds.
56:18 Speaker 04 They're buds.
56:19 Speaker 01 So they're stud buds. And so, yeah, the picture.
56:21 Pablo Torre? Is you two and them two.
56:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:25 Pablo Torre? And the commissioner of the NBA. And Megan, could you explain the context and the conversation that was happening?
56:33 Speaker 04 Earlier on a previous stream, Courtney reported that she had never, ever been strapped before. And Natasha was like, "Never?" Like, "Really?" And she's like, "No, no, no, no, never." And, and.
56:48 Speaker 01 I just feel like we need to be a little more specific and not, not yet.
56:51 Pablo Torre? For our audience, we really need to spell it all out.
56:52 Speaker 04 Oh, getting strapped. Like, have someone penetrating you with a strap on.
56:56 Speaker 01 Okay.
56:57 Speaker 04 Because she's a stud.
56:58 Speaker 01 I would've said, used the word penetration here, but.
57:00 Speaker 04 What would you say?
57:00 Speaker 01 I just would've said, "Go ahead." You nailed it.
57:02 Speaker 04 Yeah.
57:03 Pablo Torre? I mean.
57:04 Speaker 01 It is penetration.
57:04 Speaker 04 That's technically what it is.
57:05 Pablo Torre? It is being nailed.
57:06 Speaker 01 This is, it's being nailed.
57:08 Speaker 04 Yeah, exactly. It's being nailed. And Courtney was like, "Nah, never."
57:12 Speaker 15 Hell no.
57:13 Speaker 06 Oh, my gosh.
57:14 Speaker 15 I don't play like that now.
57:16 Speaker 06 Strappy lappies. But like, you're never?
57:22 Speaker 15 Ever.
57:24 Speaker 04 And then teacher's like, never? Like, I don't really believe you, but also it was whatever. So that was my burning question for All Stars. Like, I've got to get in there. We have to. This is no way that that is true. But also, I just need to, I need to just have that conversation. And that's the photo that Adam snapped.
57:43 Speaker 04 Getting strapped, getting snapped.
57:45 Speaker 01 The photo that appears on Adam's grid. On his Instagram grid.
57:50 Speaker 04 Adam's down with culture.
57:52 Speaker 01 Of Meghan, basically going to Courtney Williams on their livestream, by the way. The livestream is happening. So this is recorded.
58:00 Speaker 04 The people needed to know.
58:01 Speaker 01 And saying to Courtney, like, never? You actually never did that?
58:05 Speaker 06 We have to address the best moment on SudBuds.
58:07 Speaker 04 What is that? Never? Oh. Never strapped?
58:14 Speaker 06 Wait, what? What? What? What did he say?
58:17 Speaker 01 Are you, like, for real?
58:19 Speaker 04 Just for triesies?
58:20 Speaker 01 And, you know, Adam, I'm assuming Adam's photographer, actually, captured the moment. So Adam wasn't even there. Fun fact.
58:26 Speaker 04 Oh, that's right.
58:27 Speaker 01 Adam texted me the next day after we talked about, he was like, what am I missing here?
58:31 Speaker 04 A lot, Adam. Everything. You're missing everything about it.
58:35 Speaker 01 He's like, I see that everyone's laughing about it. What happened? I was like, how much time do you have?
58:39 Speaker 04 He knows vibes.
58:39 Speaker 01 He knows good vibes. We were having time, we were having a good time.
58:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:42 Pablo Torre? So Adam Silver does or doesn't know what strapping is?
58:44 Speaker 04 He does now. He definitely does now.
58:47 Speaker 01 I'm sure he knows now.
58:49 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:49 Speaker 01 If he didn't before.
58:50 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:51 Pablo Torre? I'm sure he knows now. I'd like to retract what I said before when I said that I wasn't sure you guys were journalists. Meghan is just making direct eye contact with the camera and.
59:04 Pablo Torre? Jim Alfred in the office.
59:05 Speaker 01 Can I be honest? You're not gonna love this, but this is what it's like doing a podcast with her. You just talk right to the camera. You never talk to me.
59:10 Speaker 04 I gotta get to my people.
59:12 Speaker 01 I'll be like, we're having the conversation. Why are you talking to the camera?
59:15 Speaker 04 Cause we're having the conversation with.
59:19 Speaker 01 It's so funny.
59:20 Speaker 04 Topless followers.
59:21 Pablo Torre? That's right.
59:22 Speaker 01 She always goes direct to cam.
59:23 Pablo Torre? With the, with.
59:25 Speaker 04 I'm one of these people. I'm like, looking at me. I'm such a big fan of the show.
59:29 Pablo Torre? Meghan, Sue, uh, thank you for being in this business. Thank you for, uh, giving me the honor of, uh, giving Butter Pablo a friend.
59:39 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
59:39 Speaker 04 Yeah. You're welcome.
59:41 Speaker 01 You're welcome.
59:50 Pablo Torre? This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.
59:56 Pablo Torre? And I'll talk to you next time.
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1:00:47 Speaker 14 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.
1:01:20 Speaker 03 With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details.
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