The Jordon Rules: An Exclusive PTFO Investigation

The real story of Bill Belichick's 24-year-old girlfriend is even weirder than it seemed on the viral CBS interview: Pablo spoke to 11 sources who've dealt with Jordon Hudson directly — and there is deep concern that she is destroying the legacy and reputation of the greatest football coach ever. Plus: Katie Nolan and Michael Cruz Kayne reveal our reporting from Hudson's hometown and her ex-boyfriend's (gulp) unsavory past. That... and the story of the yellow polka-dot bikini. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:02Speaker 01

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• 1:47Speaker 00

  This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef. The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill.

• 2:28Pablo Torre?

  My move: QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery. I'm Pablo Torre and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly.

• 3:10Pablo Torre?

  Because today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  28,000-year-old dildo, that's what she calls Bill.

• 3:18Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  You're listening to DraftKings Network.

• 3:40Pablo Torre?

  We gotta, we gotta get going here.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Oh, it's surreal. Let me take these sunglasses off so I don't seem flippant about the subject matter. Your hair's voluminous today.

• 3:46Pablo Torre?

  Okay, thank you for noticing. Well, I took a shower yesterday.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Shout out, second day's the best day.

• 3:52Pablo Torre?

  Shout out to showers. We don't have time for this.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Start us cleanly.

• 3:56Pablo Torre?

  Are we starting cleanly? Are we rolling? Pointing to the thing. We have been rolling, very good. We just want action. We don't have time to banter.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Sorry, why'd you invite me?

• 4:07Pablo Torre?

  I made a terrible mistake, I now realize, by inviting you two specifically. But in front of you are papers with, with words on them that are warnings. Words that are warnings. Yours has more warnings than mine.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, mine also says, can I say the embargoed?

• 4:21Pablo Torre?

  Cause you can't be trusted.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Mine says, exclusive with two underlines, embargoed with stars. That's, I think, probably because I have a podcast.

• 4:27Pablo Torre?

  We have a timeline of exclusive information that is new, breaking. No one else has broken it yet. I've been sitting on it for a long time.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:33Pablo Torre?

  Right? You guys were here the last time when we broke this story that, in fact... Jordon Hudson, Bill Belichick's girlfriend, age 24, had insinuated herself into a Super Bowl commercial with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. This was a very conspicuous thing to us. And now maybe to everybody who was watching this again.

• 4:54Speaker 04

  Matt Damon and Tom Brady don't have the heart of a champion. We got a new squad, Dunk Kings sequel. Affleck's and Belichick. Dunk Kings!

• 5:02Speaker 04

  A little more spirit on the, you know, the charge next time.

• 5:05Pablo Torre?

  So Jordan, right there, right next to Bill, next to Coach Belichick. To recap, she was the one who represented herself as Bill Belichick's agent. Katie Nolan, I believe, branded her accurately on the last episode.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  As a momager.

• 5:20Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. Yeah. Prescient. I've been thinking about that, haunted by that, because in the months since then, I've also been making more calls. And so when this stuff happened recently, I was at the bottom of the rabbit hole already. And everything I have found out from personally talking to 11 sources who have directly dealt with her. Yes.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 5:40Pablo Torre?

  First hand, I am here to say a couple of things to you guys. Number one is that I need to change the foremost policy of talking about Jordon Hudson.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  And that is?

• 5:48Pablo Torre?

  I'm going to start calling her Jordon Hudson.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Which is funny, because I've noticed people online have started calling her Jordan. And I said, Pablo led the charge.

• 5:55Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. It's just now a real story.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Yes, fair. Totally fair, agree with.

• 6:00Pablo Torre?

  And when you talk to 11 people, I do want to demonstrate some, some open mindedness to the question. That's as many, that's as many herbs and spices as there are, if I'm not mistaken.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Right, and that's, so that's their herbs and spice line. Once you hit that, you're in on the story.

• 6:14Pablo Torre?

  We've hit the KFC threshold.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 6:15Pablo Torre?

  And so too, there are questions about, how original is this recipe? Wow, beautifully done.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  It's like you guys had worked on that, and I'm here to say they hadn't.

• 6:25Pablo Torre?

  We absolutely haven't. But the recipe for this story is, there is some Succession, there is some Dawson's Creek, there is certainly some Lifetime movie, the story of arguably the greatest coach in the history of not just football, but everything. And a couple of breaking news updates since what has happened publicly since we last gathered. Number one, okay?

• 6:50Pablo Torre?

  Two sources at the University of North Carolina tell me that there has been a decision. It was made last week by the higher ups inside the athletic department that had hired Bill Belichick to be the highest paid public employee, not just coach, in the state of North Carolina at $10 million a year. And that decision was that Jordon Hudson is no longer allowed in the football building.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:10Pablo Torre?

  She is not allowed on the football field. Quote, "Don't think you'll be hearing much from Jordan moving forward."

• 7:18Speaker 05

  Dang, not in the building?

• 7:20Speaker 03

  A little flippant. I feel like that is what is done with a distraction and a team is within its rights to do that when it comes to external distractions.

• 7:28Speaker 05

  Now, do we think, maybe we know, I don't know if we know, do we think this is like the athletic director at UNC being like, this is a problem? Or you think it's Bill going to the athletic director and being like, "Uh, I would really love it if you said this was a problem."

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Oh, of like, "Oh, they said you can't come."

• 7:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, I want...

• 7:46Speaker 03

  "I would love to have you there."

• 7:48Speaker 05

  I want, oh my god, you kidding me? Tar- who's got tariier heels than you?

• 7:52Speaker 03

  You're my cheerleader!

• 7:53Speaker 05

  You gotta be there, babe, but friggin'...

• 7:55Speaker 03

  But they are saying...

• 7:56Speaker 05

  Donny's on my back with this. Bubba Cunningham.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  New job!

• 7:59Pablo Torre?

  Is that his name? Bubba Cunningham?

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Bubba's, Bubba, you know the way, Bubba's.

• 8:01Pablo Torre?

  You know how Bubba can be.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  Listen, Bubba's, it's, he's tough.

• 8:04Pablo Torre?

  I think Bubba's jealous on it. I wouldn't say it to him, but I think Bubba's jealous.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:08Pablo Torre?

  That's my Bill Belichick impression.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  That's really good.

• 8:09Pablo Torre?

  That's ours.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, the most animated he's ever been.

• 8:12Pablo Torre?

  So the theory of why any of this happening is a relevant conversation that I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you to put a pin in that.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 8:20Pablo Torre?

  Because the second update is that Bill Belichick's family...

• 8:24Speaker 05

  Uh oh.

• 8:25Pablo Torre?

  Is extraordinarily concerned about what has transpired. One Belichick family source told me, quote, "There is deep worry for how detrimental Jordan can be for not just North Carolina, but Bill's legacy, reputation, everything he has built and worked for over decades." End quote. In fact, the family has been digging into Jordon Hudson as well.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 8:48Pablo Torre?

  In a parallel way.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  So they are, they are conducting research.

• 8:52Pablo Torre?

  They are also-

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Asking questions.

• 8:54Pablo Torre?

  In a rabbit hole. They're shocking 11 herbs and spices. I mean, might be understating the spiciness, honestly, at this point, in terms of how this has gone behind the scenes. Because number three-

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Oh, boy.

• 9:07Pablo Torre?

  What I've been told is that Bill Belichick entrusted Jordon Hudson with the power to run his new media empire. Quote, "Jordan was my boss." To quote another, "The level of cockiness to go along with the absence of resume is stunning." And the idea that Bill Belichick may not realize exactly the damage he's done to himself, and certainly his legacy, and also to his reputation as a coach. And so, yes, this will be a story about leadership and genius and privacy and discipline. And also, crucially, the illegal sale of injectable erectile dysfunction drugs.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  Sorry?

• 9:44Pablo Torre?

  Wait, what did you say?

• 9:45Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, what?

• 9:46Pablo Torre?

  After the break. Oh, my god.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Monetization is killing everything.

• 10:08Pablo Torre?

  So how the [bleep] did we get here, guys?

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Pablo, what the [bleep] Pablo?

• 10:11Pablo Torre?

  We started this off joking about Jordan. And late last month, Bill Belichick put on a tattered navy sweatshirt and showed up to what I am told is his old high school in Annapolis, Maryland, alongside his girlfriend, Jordon Hudson, who was, not coincidentally, wearing her own navy sweatshirt.

• 10:29Speaker 03

  No holes.

• 10:30Pablo Torre?

  She also has been telling people that she picks out all of Bill's clothes for him.

• 10:35Speaker 03

  Odd choice then.

• 10:37Pablo Torre?

  But the goal, as they show up together wearing Navy sweatshirts, is to promote Bill's new book titled, "The Art of Winning: Lessons From A Life In Football." And are you familiar with CBS Sunday Morning?

• 10:47Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:48Speaker 06

  Coach, thank you for doing this. You're probably thinking the same thing I was when I sat down with Bill Belichick. What's going on with this sweatshirt?

• 10:57Speaker 07

  Well, you can see I've worn this one for a while.

• 10:59Speaker 06

  Do you remember how you got the cut here?

• 11:01Speaker 07

  No.

• 11:02Speaker 06

  Tattered, and yes, often sleeveless, Belichick's signature look is part of his singular focus.

• 11:10Pablo Torre?

  To be clear, CBS Sunday Morning, I am told, was trying to tell an extraordinarily positive story about how this coach's decision-making could be a model, actually, for non-football people, too.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  The clip that kind of went out and got the most attention was a clip of Jordan interrupting and seemingly inserting herself into the interview.

• 11:33Speaker 06

  Jordan was a constant presence during our interview. You have Jordan, right over there.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  And the question she took the most issue with from that clip was, they asked him...

• 11:44Speaker 06

  Everybody in the world seems to be following this relationship. They've got an opinion about your private life. It's got nothing to do with them, but they're invested in it. How do you deal with that?

• 11:54Speaker 07

  Never been too worried about what everybody else thinks. Just try to do what I feel like is best for me and what's right.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  It was very softball. Like, you are in a new relationship. We're seeing a different side of you. How did the two of you meet?

• 12:05Speaker 06

  They just meet.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  Not talking about this. We're not talking about that.

• 12:09Speaker 05

  And in addition to inserting herself, there also is an element of asserting herself. It feels like. It feels like, it's not just like, "I'm in here to protect." It's also like, "The big dog is barking over here." Just so you know, and the big dog's got her eyes on you. That's how it felt.

• 12:24Pablo Torre?

  If you're a savvy PR person, a guard dog even, like, you're not trying to be on tape. What I am told is that, yeah, the reports are true, that there is like a half hour more of Jordon Hudson giving hand signals to him during the interview, kind of like a Spygate thing, honestly.

• 12:40Speaker 03

  A good PR person is not going, "Excuse me? Hello? It's me," and inserting themselves. They're trying their best to smooth from afar, and they had an answer for that question.

• 12:49Pablo Torre?

  But instead, what is happening is that there are lots of theories all over the internet that, in fact, Jordon Hudson is an OnlyFans model, a call girl, something along those lines, because why else would you not want to reveal the truth? What I can tell you is that, from all of the people I've talked to, they just think that Jordon Hudson, like, her cover-up was worse than the non-crime that happened. And, in fact, to verify all of this, what I can tell you is that, yeah, that flight, Boston to Palm Beach, 2021, a JetBlue flight? Balashev does fly commercial. He goes to hang out at the Golf Club of Jupiter. That's why he got to Palm Beach. At the time, he was still with Linda Holliday, who was his 15-year girlfriend, thereabouts,

• 13:33Pablo Torre?

  who was in her late 50s at the time. And Jordan was a philosophy major at Bridgewater State, who was dating a much older man whom we will meet later. But the date in question--

• 13:43Speaker 05

  Uh-oh.

• 13:44Pablo Torre?

  The date in question was February 11th, 2021, and we know this, of course, because Bill Balashev signed what?

• 13:50Speaker 03

  The inside of her philosophy textbook? Or a psychology textbook? Which one was it?

• 13:56Pablo Torre?

  It was Deductive Logic by Harvard professor Warren Goldfarb. And there is the inscription, Feb. 11, 2021. I will just call to your attention, of course, the "Jordan," and if you just punch in even more on that second "O," you might notice that it doesn't feel like on encounter number one, Bill Balashev knew that "Jordan" is spelled with two "O's--

• 14:21Speaker 03

  Because why would you?

• 14:22Pablo Torre?

  Because he does the extra circle around what felt like, clearly--

• 14:24Speaker 03

  An "A."

• 14:25Pablo Torre?

  An "A." And I believe that February 11, 2021, is also incredibly important here, because in the attempt to, like, match all the timelines, because there's been lots of erroneous reporting, lots of seemingly very confusing timelines, February 11, 2021 is very important because of this other video that we found.

• 14:55Speaker 08

  Jordon Hudson, 22, Hancock.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  Beautiful. If I may, beautiful.

• 15:01Pablo Torre?

  That was the first runner-up of the Miss Maine pageant last year. That was 2024.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  First runner-up is second place, yes?

• 15:08Pablo Torre?

  That is, I'm told, second place.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 15:11Pablo Torre?

  Correct. Hancock, Maine is her hometown. That's populated 2,466. But the detail that I wanted to call your attention to, just for the timeline here, right, is how old she says she is. So this pageant, I can tell you, was March 2024. Okay, so deductive logic time. She is 22 in March 2024. So in February 2021, when they met on that flight, using the powers of deductive logic, Jordon Hudson would then need to be how old Michael Cruz can, who used to teach math to kids? 19? Did you do math with it? Jordon Hudson, 19 years old.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Getting close.

• 15:50Pablo Torre?

  Bill Belichick is about to turn 69, I believe. Nice. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. You taught math to kids.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  With the embargo?

• 15:59Pablo Torre?

  You're the one who taught kids. I'm sorry. I didn't want to do it.

• 16:02Speaker 03

  My God.

• 16:03Pablo Torre?

  Something that I did, it came from the center of the earth.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Sorry, Pablo. Please continue.

• 16:07Pablo Torre?

  I, I, can we take it out?

• 16:10Speaker 03

  We all follow.

• 16:11Pablo Torre?

  No, we're gonna leave it then. But Jordon Hudson's age frequently has been

• 16:16Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 16:17Pablo Torre?

  miscalculated, misreported. The LA Times last week had her at 21 years old at the time of their meeting. And one reason, by the way, and again, 19, that's legal, right? I'm just, I'm just trying to clarify the timelines. Sure, by the law, it's fine. By the law, it's fine to have. But there are other, man has other laws than those that are writ. That, I believe, is also a philosophy textbook somewhere. Yeah, absolutely. Signed by Bill Cower.

• 16:46Pablo Torre?

  The reason I've been wondering, though, like, why does this keep happening? Why does no one know? Does connect to another question I've been pondering that I want to ask you guys. Have you ever mistyped your own birth year?

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Well, certain, I'm, I'm, not that I remember specifically, but certainly I've mistyped everything.

• 17:05Pablo Torre?

  The reason I ask that question is because this is a question that has been asked around the North Carolina football program. And it has been asked because I've learned of an internal document that has been circulating around said program. And you may be familiar, like, sometimes, whether it's a school directory, or, uh, let's say, the wives and girlfriends of football coaches working at University of North Carolina, you fill out a directory. There's your address, there's an email, phone number, number of kids, their names, and your birthday, so that people can say, "Happy birthday," when it's time for your birthday. And Jordon Hudson put down her birthday, on this document, I am told, as April 2000.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  April 2000, so now we're, now we're getting a little older.

• 17:44Pablo Torre?

  Or she did not put her accurate birthday.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Okay, so now, okay, so back where we started. We don't really know.

• 17:53Pablo Torre?

  Well, we know, based on a preponderance of evidence, that her actual birthday is April 2001.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  So it seems like the reason she's so sensitive about the, about the book thing is because they didn't think through the fact that he was clearly talking to a 19-year-old, and now they're trying to cover that up.

• 18:09Pablo Torre?

  That is a lot closer to what might be the Occam's razor of why. There's another thing about it.

• 18:16Speaker 05

  Wait, can I say the same thing? I was gonna say it, because I'm gonna forget it.

• 18:18Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 05

  I'm trying to picture, either you're typing it, or you're writing it, right? If you're writing it, there's no way you write 00 instead of 01.

• 18:26Pablo Torre?

  This was typed.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 05

  So if you're typing it...

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just the same.

• 18:30Speaker 05

  But on your phone, the zero is not where the one is. It's not close to the one.

• 18:34Pablo Torre?

  And that is literally the argument that one of the sources that I spoke to at UNC pointed out. How the [bleep] could you mistake a zero for a one?

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, you'd have to go out of your way.

• 18:45Pablo Torre?

  On a phone, on a keyboard.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  What a crazy little detail. Yeah. And it's like you'd hit the same thing, or you'd hit the, yeah, oh my goodness gracious.

• 18:52Pablo Torre?

  So this specific mistake, quote-unquote...

• 18:56Pablo Torre?

  Feels instructive.

• 18:58Speaker 05

  But wait, you could put zero, maybe you could put zero twice.

• 19:01Pablo Torre?

  To put double zero.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 19:02Speaker 05

  Generously, maybe you could, maybe you double tapped it.

• 19:04Pablo Torre?

  Anyway, this is just pointing out the presentation, the theater of what it is to allegedly be the first lady of UNC football. It's a real puzzle, admittedly. It's a puzzle, including for someone I would, I'd have to imagine, like Harvard professor Warren Goldfarb.

• 19:20Speaker 05

  Warren G.

• 19:20Speaker 09

  I'm the Walter Beverly Pearson Professor of Modern Mathematics and Mathematical Logic. And now you should add a marriageist because I've retired. Despite the title, I'm actually in the Philosophy Department, not the Mathematics Department.

• 19:35Pablo Torre?

  Warren G. did tell us that he is not familiar with Deductive Logic, his book, raising libidos in this way. But he did tell us.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  Is this one of our 11?

• 19:46Speaker 03

  He really asked him that.

• 19:47Pablo Torre?

  He's not one of the 11, for the record.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Hey, sir, does your book tend to make people horny?

• 19:52Speaker 09

  Now, of course, I don't know the details of exactly what happened, but presumably, Bill Belichick had a seat on an airplane next to Jordon Hudson, and she was reading the logic book. She was taking the class that my friend teaches at Bridgewater State.

• 20:09Speaker 05

  Oh, I see.

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Using your friend's book in your class?

• 20:11Pablo Torre?

  He said, "Philosophers mount up."

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Of course, yes.

• 20:15Speaker 09

  Doing strategy in football is just preplete with all kinds of truth, function, logic. If this happens, then we should do that. If that happens, we should do this. If this happens, but that doesn't happen, then we do this. That's all truth, function, logic. So either Belichick was interested to see that what he did more on intuition, and he was obviously very good at it, right? What he did in intuition was actually, could be formalized. Or it was just all old hat to him, and he was just making conversation because she was a very beautiful young woman. Logic is too often derided as a dry subject, and I'm glad to see its romantic potential has finally been recognized.

• 20:52Pablo Torre?

  The illogic of this whole thing, though, right? Why is she so protective of this question? Why is she doing this? There is, I think, in our reporting, as Katie deduced, the whole, like, let's not draw attention to the fact that... I was 19, he was almost 69.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Legal though it may be.

• 21:12Pablo Torre?

  Legal though it may be. But there's another theory, according to people who have dealt with her directly on matters of business, which is that she seems to be of a belief as she carves up Bill Belichick's brand, his life into different buckets of monetization. And by the way, she is the person who inspired in a real way the book that is at the heart of that CBS non-promo. She had read, I'm told, Ray Dalio's book Principles. Like, as an idea mill, as she's credited and acknowledged, she does come up with ideas like that book. But what the source has deduced is that she may be saving exclusively any and all talk

• 21:54Pablo Torre?

  about their origin story, their relationship, for a potential reality show.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  So you're saying that she's protecting that information because it's in fact embargoed?

• 22:08Pablo Torre?

  She is somebody who believes that an exclusive means exclusive, like you can't talk about this anywhere else. This story is for a future theoretical project. That is the theory from people who have had to deal with her. And the dealing with her, right? When did this happen? When did she get control over Bill Belichick's new media empire? So, you may recall the time that Bill Belichick got defenestrated from Katie Nolan's New England Patriots.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  That's thrown out the window.

• 22:38Speaker 05

  Do you think I need you to tell me what defenestrated is?

• 22:42Speaker 03

  I was doing it for them, but.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  Fenestra, Latin, window, feminine noun, let's go.

• 22:48Pablo Torre?

  That window of time that Belichick had.

• 22:51Speaker 05

  A fenestra of time, if you will.

• 22:53Pablo Torre?

  A fenestra of time that he didn't have football to fill. He had, I'm gonna count them down, a podcast for underdog fantasy called Coach. He had Inside the NFL for the CW. He had appearances with Peyton Manning in various kinds. He had appearances on the Pat McAfee Show. And all of this was kind of conspicuous, given that, again, no one hated media more than that guy. And also, as you told multiple people, he'd never listened to a podcast before. But.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Who among us?

• 23:21Pablo Torre?

  Not, not surprising.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  Who among us makes him doesn't listen to him? You know?

• 23:24Pablo Torre?

  So he shows up at NFL Films Studios in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. All of these things I've mentioned are filmed there at the one place that he trusts as a media entity. It's the company that he grew up adoring and trusting, NFL Films, right? Like, his dad is a coach, he is a football nerd. He has friends who've worked there for a very long time. The Hard Knocks thing, which is, for those not familiar, the reality show where you get cameras all over a football building, typically an NFL team, was gonna be, for the first time, a college team. It was gonna be Chapel Hill, North Carolina. It was gonna be this program. And it was gonna be produced by NFL Films. So this is, again, the organization where all of these shows had been taped. This was Belichick's sort of like comfort zone.

• 24:09Pablo Torre?

  And so when you get the news that Jordon Hudson, and this is something that I've confirmed myself, was instrumental in that deal blowing up because she was trying to assert control over the negotiations. This is now how we arrive at a point at which Bill Belichick's insulation from these media things has absolutely just become a thing he has to deal with.

• 24:34Speaker 05

  And I think if, the other thing about it is, if UNC struggles, this is gonna, this is only gonna get way, way, way, way worse.

• 24:43Pablo Torre?

  And at the beginning of this, as of the summer of 2024, Jordon Hudson was not in charge of everything. But there was one famous story that was witnessed by, I am told, dozens of people, including freelance contractors who were hired to work on the set for a seven-figure scripted commercial. And, and yes, we're talking about another expensive commercial shoot here. This is Belichick.

• 25:05Speaker 10

  Talk to me. Double B.

• 25:07Pablo Torre?

  Tyrese.

• 25:08Speaker 10

  What's good with these wideouts? He's gonna get in the end zone, no doubt about that. My man. William, answer the phone. Billy V, my man. Cam. How's QB1 looking? Looking more like QB3.

• 25:19Pablo Torre?

  My body rejects that. What I am told by multiple people among the dozens who witnessed the shooting of this is that what happened that day on set was, quote, "highly unusual." Jordon Hudson, who was at the time like a person they kind of heard about, but again, this is last summer.

• 25:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:35Pablo Torre?

  Not, not, not quite the entity that we know now, nothing close, had arrived on set and started immediately pitching herself for a role that had not been discussed in this scripted seven-figure commercial shoot.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  Eee.

• 25:46Pablo Torre?

  That would also serve as, quote, "the hard launch of their relationship." And she told everybody to hold on, actually, as this idea developed in her head, because what she did was she left set, came back sometime later, and she was wearing a yellow polka dot bikini.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Shut up.

• 26:04Pablo Torre?

  And a sun hat.

• 26:06Speaker 05

  She would just be by the pool with him. That was the idea.

• 26:10Pablo Torre?

  All right, were you?

• 26:11Speaker 05

  I pitched this to her. She left.

• 26:13Pablo Torre?

  In the room?

• 26:14Speaker 05

  She called me. She was like, "What do you think would be a good..." And I was like, "Get that, get that bikini on, girl."

• 26:18Speaker 03

  Said, "Hey, you were in Severance for 30 seconds. I was just wondering."

• 26:21Pablo Torre?

  Whoa.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  Whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 26:23Pablo Torre?

  30 seconds.

• 26:26Pablo Torre?

  Think about.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Your face.

• 26:28Pablo Torre?

  Think about the scene, though, right? So she shows up, she's wearing a bikini, she's walking around. Bill Belichick, if you're wondering, betrays no emotional change as this is happening.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 26:39Pablo Torre?

  And everybody around is like, again, this is like, as she called him on set multiple times, this is a star. She kept on calling him a star.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  That's why you're allowed to be here. We're even pretending to listen to you because of the star, how much he's a star in our eyes.

• 26:57Pablo Torre?

  So that part, right? The "how do they manage this?" question, because she's insisting the hard launch be good for the commercial, and Belichick was going along with it. He's like, "Of course, I, yeah, this, this seems totally normal, like a thing you would do." And the crew had to figure out, "What the [bleep] do you do now?"

• 27:15Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 27:16Pablo Torre?

  So the premise of the ad, according to my sources, was Jordon Hudson by the pool, sunning herself in a lounge chair, trying to get Bill's attention, that kind of a thing.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Oh, she added like script idea. It wasn't just she'd be in the background of the shot we saw.

• 27:29Pablo Torre?

  She had motivation.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:31Pablo Torre?

  Taping for the actual commercial was done by then. And so what they did was they filmed something.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 27:38Speaker 05

  Oh, my god.

• 27:40Pablo Torre?

  That one source told me.

• 27:41Speaker 03

  Oh, this is embarrassing.

• 27:42Pablo Torre?

  May have involved a camera that may not have even been on.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Oh, my god, this is so embarrassing. It's like when you give a kid a controller for a video game and you play it and you go, "You're doing great."

• 27:51Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 27:52Speaker 05

  You're driving the car, Billy.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Look at you go. Oh my god.

• 27:55Speaker 00

  They had zero intention of using it.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  I got goosebumps. That is my, that's a real nightmare.

• 27:59Speaker 05

  That hurts me.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  I'm embarrassed.

• 28:01Speaker 05

  I feel, it makes me feel for her.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, unfortunately, I now feel bad.

• 28:05Speaker 05

  I think the villain up to this point in this particular story. I am like, oh gosh.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  Yeesh.

• 28:10Speaker 04

  I, I agree.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  I hope that footage is destroyed. I hope that, if there was any. I hope there isn't any, and if it is, I hope it was destroyed. I, that's...

• 28:18Speaker 05

  Please don't have that footage right now.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Please, Pablo.

• 28:22Speaker 05

  And...

• 28:23Speaker 00

  No, I don't have it.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  Oh, thank god. I was, I believed him.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  I, I looked.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Oh god, of course you did. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to look. It'd be like the, the salt, salt bath, whatever that scene was. You guys, don't do that.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  Oh my god!

• 28:38Speaker 04

  How did you do that?

• 28:39Speaker 03

  What are you talking about?

• 28:40Speaker 04

  How did you do that?

• 28:50Speaker 00

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• 32:32Pablo Torre?

  So not understanding how sets work, how cameras work, how microphones work, that's a through line so far from CBS to this. And what happens, though, as everybody on set is watching this, and the people who work on these shows are watching this in this one central location where the mountain has come to Mohammed and everybody goes and like films stuff with Bill Belichick, the newly crowned media king of football, who cannot get a job in the NFL. One source told me this, quote, "I watched her power grow inch by inch. I can take this, I can take this, I can take this." And the question then is like, why wasn't anyone in the way? Right. Why was the power vacuum so, so empty?

• 33:16Pablo Torre?

  And the inner circle of Bill Belichick is a fascinating thing. So it used to be managed, his PR used to be managed by this guy, Berj Najarian. He was handling all of his personal PR. He was the guy who, as Bill Belichick, was very hard to deal with. He was very easy to work with, but ultimately they said nothing. And that was, that was a good relationship. That was a safe relationship. He's now, however, the chief of staff at Boston College, leaving behind a group with whom Bill Belichick still has a standing predawn phone call every single day. You've got Matt Patricia, the former defensive coordinator of the Patriots, and also briefly the offensive coordinator. That did not go any better. It's not. We can also mention that Josh McDaniels is also in this group. Also, Mike Lombardi, longtime friend of Bill Belichick, former Patriots assistant, now GM at UNC.

• 34:01Pablo Torre?

  And these are yes men. So I just want you to imagine being Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick is somebody who has been for decades incredibly insulated from having to live anything resembling a normal life. He has been a coach. He has been in charge. And Matt Patricia, as was described to me, like, this is, quote, "Adore Matt."

• 34:26Pablo Torre?

  That's mean as well, and I kind of feel bad about that. But these guys like are watching Jordan come in and they're like eye rolling. They're kind of like nudging each other is the description. But they're not telling Bill, they're not telling Coach, this is a bad idea. So she comes in and out alphas everybody. And that's how in a very short amount of time, in a period of months, they watch her take power. And so simultaneous to this, Bill Belichick, to the people he's doing these media projects with, is repeatedly calling Jordan brilliant. He is telling them, you need to hire Jordan. He told one of these media companies, I am told, that they should hire her for a six-figure salary

• 35:09Pablo Torre?

  as part of their deal with him to make the show in question. But you can imagine what that work environment was like, where she was on every single call, every single email, they had to go through her, she ran his life. Media partners had to go to her to get to him. They commuted together all the time from Boston to New Jersey. She was calling people into meetings. And connecting back to the CBS interview, she again didn't seem clear on how cameras and hot mics worked. And I say that because in another infamous story that circulated among dozens of people on set at the NFL Films studio, Bill Belichick, Katie Nolan, you can imagine this, right? He's wearing a mic.

• 35:55Pablo Torre?

  She is whispering to him.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Oh no.

• 35:59Pablo Torre?

  Off camera somewhere.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  Oh god.

• 36:01Pablo Torre?

  The problem is that there are these things in television called control rooms. And at NFL Films headquarters, as Bill Belichick and Jordon Hudson are mic'd up, they proceed to hear them talking [BLEEP] about all sorts of people. They are talking [BLEEP] about graphics, they're talking so much [BLEEP] about the graphics people. They are. Not aware that dozens of people can hear them talk.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  How?

• 36:29Speaker 05

  Jordan.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  How are you not aware? You need, just, everybody knows this trick. How are you not aware?

• 36:37Speaker 05

  Let me, let me also, okay, here's what I'm gonna say. I think, this is a principle of my life. Talking [BLEEP] behind people's back is totally fine. It's, I encourage it.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  I actually believe there's studies that have shown it's like important for human society to have that.

• 36:52Speaker 05

  Okay, so now there's, now there's that.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Science backing up.

• 36:55Speaker 05

  So I think that's total, I think that's, I think, you should talk [BLEEP] about every, talk [BLEEP] to all the people. But, everything goes out the window if they hear you. If they hear you, it's a whole different, it's a whole different ballgame.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:04Pablo Torre?

  They heard them.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  That's pretty tough. That's really tough. And that, and you're saying that's all, and that didn't get out?

• 37:11Pablo Torre?

  That has not gotten out.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Are we ever gonna go back to the part where, um, nobody around Bill spoke up? Because I do feel that's a neglected part of this story in that we do seem to love, especially as an online public, we love a woman to put everything on. And while I'm not in any way saying that Jordan is innocent or anything in all of this, it does seem like a number of people were in a position that could have gone, hey, this isn't cool. But they were so much more interested in their access to this power.

• 37:43Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  That they let it get really bad and are now like, crazy, right? She's nuts. And you're like, yeah, you could have said something a long time ago and helped your supposed friend by telling him the truth of what was going on here. And now you're leaving it to us to do.

• 37:58Speaker 05

  I would say that is, it's tricky because even, like, have you ever had a friend who had a significant other that you were like, oh boy?

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:05Speaker 05

  This person is trash.

• 38:07Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I'm not good at this.

• 38:07Speaker 05

  I would say, in my opinion, I'm like, I'm just gonna wait till they break up. And that's what, that's what I'm gonna say.

• 38:11Speaker 03

  And I'm, and I will say, self-awareness, I am on the other end of the spectrum.

• 38:16Speaker 05

  That's good.

• 38:16Speaker 03

  I have made people very mad at me.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  Maybe it's not good.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  By, yes, by the other end of the spectrum being.

• 38:21Speaker 05

  And they're here today!

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Bring them out! Uh, no, it's, I have a tendency to be a little honest in ways I don't notice are uncouth until they're, they've been said.

• 38:30Speaker 05

  It happens.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  So I think it's, a good friend is to say, I don't know how to tell you this, and I might not tell it to you right, but I don't think what's going on here is on the up and up. I would say at least that.

• 38:41Pablo Torre?

  I, I will safely say that Bill Belichick's inner circle could have used a Katie Nolan.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, and I've been saying that for years.

• 38:51Pablo Torre?

  It's true. The parallel here that I imagine is like in Succession, you know, the council of just like people who are just like sucking up to Low and Roy, who are there because they're looking for like the scraps of power that fall off of his plate. That is a lot of what I've had described to me. And I am trying always to like balance how I don't have Jordon Hudson's perspective because she wouldn't talk to us. But the quotes that you hear from the people who worked with her, and again, I think, look, I just, I don't know how to diplomatically convey the following quote from one of the people who worked on these shows. Quote, "She is the worst person I've ever met on earth, and I've worked with multiple sociopaths."

• 39:33Speaker 03

  Oh, boy. Am I allowed to know the gender? I can't, of course, know the gender of who said that, but it does inform.

• 39:39Speaker 05

  But I do, I do wonder if there are any, the gender of the people of our 11 spices, if any of those spices is a woman spice.

• 39:50Pablo Torre?

  A spice girl.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Like a ginger or a cinnamon.

• 39:53Pablo Torre?

  I can tell you that an unquantifiable number among the 11 are in fact.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  Ginger or cinnamon or?

• 40:01Pablo Torre?

  Or even baby.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Baby.

• 40:03Speaker 05

  Even baby.

• 40:06Speaker 05

  Can you read that quote one more time? I started laughing at the word worst.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  You did.

• 40:10Speaker 05

  Didn't hear the rest of it.

• 40:11Pablo Torre?

  "She is the worst person I've ever met, and I've worked with multiple sociopaths."

• 40:17Speaker 05

  I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty bad.

• 40:19Pablo Torre?

  "They still fear her today."

• 40:22Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 40:23Pablo Torre?

  This is a lot of, there's so much fear in this story.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  What is, what are you so afraid of?

• 40:37Pablo Torre?

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• 42:55Pablo Torre?

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• 43:37Pablo Torre?

  Cozy has everything you need to make your home feel like it has a plan, because Cozy makes every part of the process easy. So, visit Cozy today, that's C-O-Z-E-Y dot com, and make yourself at home. I suppose a question, if you are in the family of one Bill Balachek or somebody who is invested in what's going on here, would be, okay, who else has Jordon Hudson sort of been with recently? What's her type? What's her deal romantically? And, look, I don't, I don't know all the answers to that. I just know that there is this guy, Joshua L. Zuckerman.

• 44:22Pablo Torre?

  Dude's in his mid-60s. According to his LinkedIn, he is the CEO of, wait for it, a geriatrics facility in Cape Cod.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 44:30Pablo Torre?

  It's relevant because Joshua L. Zuckerman told TMZ the following, quote, "She is wise beyond her years, much more than any 20-something I've ever met in my life. The narrative about her character is not fair to her," end quote. And then, also separately, "I wish these internet trolls and paparazzi would leave her alone and everyone else alone and let them live their lives," end quote. On Twitter, he, under the name Joshua L. Zuckerman, not a ton of tweets, but one of them is a reply to Ann Coulter, and it is from November 7, 2017, and it's simply, "You go, girl."

• 44:55Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say, "You go, girl" as a joke, that's what it says?

• 44:58Pablo Torre?

  It is literally that.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  I almost jumped in and went, "You go, girl." That's crazy. That's very funny, I'm so sorry.

• 45:06Pablo Torre?

  The place where he is very active, though, is vivino.com. What is that?

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 45:12Pablo Torre?

  I am so glad you asked.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 45:14Pablo Torre?

  Is it like a...

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Is it for old souls?

• 45:16Pablo Torre?

  Million users. Vivino... 65 million? 65 million. My gosh. I'm now only appreciating the claim that you're spotlighting that's

• 45:26Speaker 03

  A lot of people.

• 45:28Pablo Torre?

  But it is the world's largest wine app and marketplace empowering people everywhere to enjoy wine to the fullest.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Not what I thought it was.

• 45:34Pablo Torre?

  He has written 1,208 wine reviews.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:39Speaker 05

  The man likes his wine.

• 45:40Speaker 03

  And, and good for him.

• 45:42Pablo Torre?

  And

• 45:42Speaker 03

  He's of age. Plenty.

• 45:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:44Pablo Torre?

  And I would like Michael to turn over his packet and help the audience understand

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Pablo.

• 45:49Pablo Torre?

  what some of these reviews are.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  This producing.

• 45:52Speaker 05

  Okay, here we go. Joshua rated this wine five stars. This review says, "Where are you, my love? Big hugs. Big full body fruit forward, but complex. Earthy flavors. Blackberries, big expressions of mushroom, blackberry, black pepper, earth, young but showing its strength."

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Yikes.

• 46:13Speaker 05

  Okay, but wait, this actually sounds even more like

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Talk to text.

• 46:17Speaker 05

  Talk to text because "where are you, my love? Big hugs" almost sounds like he's talk to texting

• 46:22Pablo Torre?

  Mmm.

• 46:23Speaker 05

  Someone else and then talk to text this.

• 46:26Pablo Torre?

  This is an extraordinarily generous read of what this guy's deal is.

• 46:30Speaker 03

  What's his deal?

• 46:31Pablo Torre?

  Well, let's find out.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  So keep going?

• 46:33Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  Okay, this is the Teres Gauda O Rosal. "A 2020 Rias Baixas España," sorry, "absolutely delicious, complex, light citrus, lemon, lemon flower, lemon grass citrus. Oh my God, what a beautiful, complex flavor. It's really special, fresh and expressive. Citrus pear, grapefruit, green apple, lemon, honey, honeydew, honeysuckle. Oh my God, this is so lovely. Oh my God, some mineral tones. Lovely."

• 47:04Speaker 03

  Is he all right?

• 47:05Speaker 05

  The guy loves wine.

• 47:06Pablo Torre?

  How many stars did he give that one?

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 47:07Speaker 05

  That's, oh, that's gonna be five stars.

• 47:08Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 47:09Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 05

  Uh, this one here is, ooh.

• 47:12Pablo Torre?

  Can I just point out, it felt like he was

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Oh my God, drinking it while he was saying.

• 47:16Pablo Torre?

  It, it felt like he was [bleep] that wine.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Okay, Pablo. Okay. I don't think he was. That's alleged.

• 47:22Speaker 05

  Uh, this one, the vintner of this, I believe, is Trump. Trump Meritage 2019.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 47:29Speaker 05

  "I'm surprised by the 4.0 ratings." He himself gave it four stars. This is a good table wine, a good value wine, not overly complex, blah fruit, blackberry, black cherry, pepper. Flavors are flat, non-expressive. As I said, a good table wine. Love Trump, though. Enjoy.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  Just in case. No offense to my guy.

• 47:51Speaker 05

  I mean, absolutely.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Why is everybody, including me, giving it four stars?

• 47:53Pablo Torre?

  I don't think we needed to pull the, uh...

• 47:56Speaker 05

  Big hugs.

• 47:59Pablo Torre?

  So Joshua L. Zuckerman, her ex, one part of the political spectrum, as very clearly self-professed. The other part of the political spectrum, though, is where you might find Lee Hudson.

• 48:11Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 48:11Pablo Torre?

  Lee Hudson is Jordan's mom. Lee Hudson has a job in Provincetown, Massachusetts.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:19Pablo Torre?

  P-town.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  P-town.

• 48:20Pablo Torre?

  Yep. What is P-town known for?

• 48:22Speaker 03

  Uh, gay. Very LGBTQ friendly.

• 48:24Speaker 05

  What is it known for? Ah, gay.

• 48:26Speaker 03

  Very LGBTQ plus friendly.

• 48:28Pablo Torre?

  This is where I would like Katie Nolan to flip over her packet. We sent a reporter to Provincetown, Massachusetts. Lee Hudson professionally helped run a place called Toys of Eros.

• 48:42Speaker 05

  Hell, yeah, Lee.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Play safe, exclamation point, free condoms.

• 48:45Pablo Torre?

  Our reporter tells us that, uh, Jordan's mom mostly works remotely, isn't around a lot. She has been declining to comment on any of this. But our reporter did take a tour of this store and its museum.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:58Pablo Torre?

  And Katie Nolan, I would like you to reveal the exclusive reporting that we have handed you for this episode.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Okay, so what I'm looking at here is a, it says there's a sign on the entrance door. I'm looking at a photo of the entrance door, and it appears to have a sign on it. And the sign reads, quote, "In June, the US Supreme Court declared that any business may openly discriminate against their patrons. In response, Toys of Eros will no longer sell [BLEEP] rings to humans who feel entitled to make choices for bodies other than their own. Toys of Eros will no longer sell anal plugs to people who support the burning of books. Toys of Eros will no longer sell dildos to actual dildos wearing MAGA hats. Please note: drag queens, daddy bears, [BLEEP] suckers, bull dykes, I don't want to say

• 49:45Speaker 03

  that one, F-slurs, trans folks, muff divers, non-binary gender [BLEEP]ers, and in general, queers of any and all sort and their enlightened allies," both capitalized, E-A.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  We'll always and forever be welcome at Toys of Eros. Hell yeah. Hmm, I love that. Yeah. Oh wait, I flipped ahead, sorry. No, no, no.

• 50:06Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Toys of Eros, that's the sign on the [bleep] door.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  That's right, okay.

• 50:11Pablo Torre?

  So you walk in, and uh, what do you see?

• 50:15Speaker 03

  In what room?

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Informative plaques about penis sheaths made of gourds and worn by the tribesmen of New Guinea. Mm-hmm. The museum also contains historical artifacts such as the electric cage, which you can see here. My god. So just uh-

• 50:35Speaker 05

  That feels very rudimentary.

• 50:37Pablo Torre?

  Couple of the visuals on this, kinda feels like it's some uh, medical tape and uh, slinky and a can.

• 50:44Speaker 05

  And I would describe that as a borderline loose battery.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 05

  That's-

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Just dangling, and like a cage, a slinky.

• 50:56Pablo Torre?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:56Speaker 05

  In the, in the frame, there appears to be a little more hi- a higher quality version of whatever this is.

• 51:01Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  But the one that's on the disembodied person-

• 51:04Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:05Speaker 05

  Is troubling to look at.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  This is from around uh, 1945, just to place this in time for you.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  Okay, so we're in WWII era.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 51:14Pablo Torre?

  This track.

• 51:14Speaker 05

  That's important.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  It used electric shocks to prevent masturbation and wet dreams. I would say, we weren't at a place with electricity by then, that I'd be ready to do this. You know, where I'd be like, you know what? We basically have it figured out, put it near my [bleep].

• 51:30Speaker 05

  It just feels like at this, at this point, you know it's not gonna work, whatever it says, oh this, like-

• 51:36Speaker 03

  It might work in that you might lose your [bleep] and then you can't jerk it.

• 51:40Pablo Torre?

  I don't know guys, those wires seem pretty-

• 51:42Speaker 05

  It just feels like the second, you're like, you know, uh, look, David's been masturbating so much, we need to create a device. It doesn't, there's, nothing's gonna stop David.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  Right, just let David-

• 51:51Speaker 05

  David's doing it.

• 51:52Pablo Torre?

  Get the slinky.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Last but not least, a prehistoric 28,000 year old dildo-

• 52:00Speaker 05

  My gosh, okay.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Made from camel dung?

• 52:05Speaker 03

  We had to put [BLEEP] in our [BLEEP] sies? That's crazy.

• 52:09Speaker 05

  Hang on, the fellas are using these things too.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 52:13Speaker 03

  Actually, that does make a lot more sense.

• 52:14Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  I am so, so sorry. After saying I was an ally, how dare I?

• 52:18Pablo Torre?

  How dare you disrespect one of the hundreds of phalluses made of stone, leather, bone, and dung that have been found during excavations.

• 52:28Speaker 05

  A dung-dong, if you will.

• 52:30Pablo Torre?

  A dung-dong.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  Dung-dong ditch.

• 52:31Speaker 05

  Dung-dong.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Well, that's something.

• 52:34Speaker 05

  I mean, honestly?

• 52:35Speaker 03

  And that's just sort of where it belongs anyway, so you're kind of just putting it back.

• 52:38Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  If you think about it. Honestly, this was a much-needed relief. I'm so glad we're not talking about the other stuff for just a second.

• 52:46Pablo Torre?

  Now, you mentioned the technological evolution of such devices.

• 52:52Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:53Pablo Torre?

  I guess it's now time for us to talk about the aforementioned injectable erectile dysfunction drugs.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 52:59Speaker 05

  Oh, brother.

• 53:00Speaker 03

  Wait, can I make a quick joke? Twenty-eight-thousand-year-old dildo, that's what she calls Bill.

• 53:05Speaker 05

  Nice, really nice.

• 53:07Pablo Torre?

  For the YouTube audience, we are high-fiving that.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  They heard it, they knew, they felt it.

• 53:12Pablo Torre?

  Jordan's mom in 2017, I guess I have to describe this as a legitimate local scandal.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 53:19Pablo Torre?

  Well...

• 53:19Speaker 05

  In where? Where are we again?

• 53:21Pablo Torre?

  We're...

• 53:22Speaker 03

  P-town?

• 53:22Pablo Torre?

  We're in P-town.

• 53:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, P-town.

• 53:23Pablo Torre?

  We're on Cape Cod, and we're talking about free, unlicensed demonstrations of the erectile dysfunction drug, which I am reliably informed is pronounced "trymix."

• 53:31Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  Trymix.

• 53:33Pablo Torre?

  Problem with try and trymix in this unlicensed way is that it's not exactly legal, and Jordan's mom was the business manager for the store at the time. You will not be surprised to learn at this point in our episode that this led to an emergency meeting of the Board of Health.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:48Pablo Torre?

  And one of the board members, according to a readout of the meeting, expressing outrage that the store owner has made no attempt to address the board in its total disregard for the Board of Health, she thinks the store should be shut down.

• 53:58Speaker 03

  You shouldn't be injecting anything in anybody without a license, I think.

• 54:01Speaker 05

  I would think in general, yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 54:03Pablo Torre?

  The house position Pablo Torre finds out for the record is that we are not judging, we are just presenting...

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Information.

• 54:09Speaker 05

  That's all we are, absolutely neutral reporter. We're like the Walter Cronkites of this.

• 54:14Pablo Torre?

  The Walter Cronkites of injectable erectile dysfunction drugs.

• 54:32Pablo Torre?

  What did we find out, guys, as we try to figure out what all of this means? Who is responsible? What do we feel for?

• 54:40Speaker 05

  I would say that I found out that Jordon Hudson is a full person with a backstory and that it brings to mind that ancient saying, "Be kind for everyone is fighting a hard battle." And I don't know, I didn't know, I didn't really even think about her deal. There's another quote, another quote actually brought to mind by this, which is, "Every marriage, every relationship is a foreign country."

• 55:00Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 55:01Speaker 05

  Diane Sawyer said that on the O Network. And it really stuck, it really stuck with me.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 05

  And so like, there is a part of me that looks at this and is like, "Look, man, if I were watching it in a movie or reading it in a book and I knew that these were like fictional characters, I'd be like, 'Something is [bleep] up here.'" But they're two real people. He's an exceptionally smart guy. Maybe on every aspect of his life, but at least in some part of his life, he's brilliant. Maybe, but two people are getting what they want and who cares? They're both getting what they want.

• 55:31Pablo Torre?

  Do we believe, for instance, what Bob Kraft, the owner of the Patriots, said, as quoted in Seth Wickersham's really good book about the Patriots? "He's an idiot savant." Which is to say, you can be a savant, you can be a genius in football, but outside of it, we're sort of testing for the first time what that genius gets you when you are not surrounded by things that you know and have known for decades.

• 55:55Speaker 03

  I learned, and I probably already knew, so I guess I feel like I had confirmed for me just how many people are willing to turn the other way on anything and be completely emotionally dishonest with their friend if their friend is powerful and can in some way provide something for them. Or at least like, keep them close to power.

• 56:24Pablo Torre?

  My take at the end of this is mostly that every disaster we've chronicled seems extraordinarily self-inflicted. It seems like a series of cellphones and also cellphones.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, "Cellphones?"

• 56:38Pablo Torre?

  Both. Cellphones chronicling self-owns.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 56:42Speaker 05

  Holy [bleep].

• 56:43Speaker 03

  That's real eyes, real eyes, real lies.

• 56:46Speaker 05

  Damn.

• 56:48Pablo Torre?

  And I say that because I think there's a lot of a very young person. And by the way, Silicon Valley is full of such people, right? Very ambitious people with no sense of unintended consequences.

• 57:00Speaker 03

  None.

• 57:00Pablo Torre?

  This is a very familiar prodigy when it comes to the study of power. The real estate she took, she grabbed. And the thing that Jordon Hudson considers one of the worst-case scenarios here as a result of the CBS disaster, which again, felt entirely preventable if one were more strategic or knowledgeable about the industry, a parallel through line through so many of the anecdotes that we have reported, is that she has been very concerned, to the point of explicitly telling Bill Belichick and others, that this whole disaster, this whole episode at this point, honestly, is actively undermining her chances to win the Miss Maine competition.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  And if you win Miss Maine, what do you get?

• 57:44Pablo Torre?

  Well, she was a runner-up last year.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  Surely a sash.

• 57:49Pablo Torre?

  She is trying to win that sash this year.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:51Pablo Torre?

  Okay. The thing starts tomorrow. And if you want to twist in the next development in this script, I just want to point out that one of the contestants she is competing against happens to be a trans woman, and I think they have more votes than Jordon Hudson.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  I assume you're jumping ahead to the next step, whereas if she doesn't win, this could turn into some sort of political stance.

• 58:19Pablo Torre?

  I'm just saying.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't have the patience for that chapter, if that's where we're going. Same way I feel about Stephen A. Smith potentially running for president, I'm jumping off the roof of my building before we get to this.

• 58:30Pablo Torre?

  You're not looking forward to future Defense Secretary Jordon Hudson?

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Oh, no. Oh, God.

• 58:36Pablo Torre?

  In the words of a very wise man on social media. Mm-hmm.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  Oh, boy.

• 58:41Pablo Torre?

  Something bad's about to happen.

• 58:42Speaker 03

  This could be anything. This could really go anywhere.

• 58:44Pablo Torre?

  You go, girl.

• 58:45Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 58:58Pablo Torre?

  Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Avaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tumminello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.

• 59:39Speaker 12

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