The Sporting Class: Caitlin Clark's Next Big Payday

She may be the most polarizing athlete on the planet, but whatever Caitlin Clark touches still turns to gold. Meadowlark Media CEO John Skipper is a lead investor in Unrivaled — a groundbreaking new 3-on-3 women's basketball league — and they're hot on the recruiting trail. Will Clark take the money and run? Plus: How might a second Trump administration affect the billionaires of the sports world? And can David Samson get the future Secretary of State to pick up the phone? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef. The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles, side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move?

• 0:42Pablo Torre?

  QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 1:09Speaker 01

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• 1:54Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another, and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools. It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger

• 2:39Pablo Torre?

  organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is. David Samson is now about to call Marco Rubio, right after this ad.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

• 3:24Pablo Torre?

  What John is saying there, the feeling underneath the table. I make fun of David's weirdnesses all the time.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 3:32Pablo Torre?

  David Samson.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  Good to see you.

• 3:34Pablo Torre?

  I have never chewed gum, never have put gum into my mouth.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Never?

• 3:39Pablo Torre?

  Never, because when I was a kid in grade school, I ran my hands underneath the desk absentmindedly and felt something and then looked at what it was and resolved, I will never come in contact with this if I can avoid it.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Tic tacs?

• 3:55Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I'll do tic tacs.

• 3:57Speaker 03

  What about double bub? What about the charms lollipop that ends in gum?

• 4:00Pablo Torre?

  Too close.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Starts with a lollipop, ends in gum. You can throw it out before.

• 4:02Pablo Torre?

  Too close. But underneath our desk, underneath our studio table here, it is, it is clean.

• 4:09Speaker 04

  It's pristine.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  I wouldn't put my fingers under that if I were you guys. I've seen a lot of people do shows with Pablo. I'll stick to the top of the desk.

• 4:17Speaker 04

  I wonder if you entered any.

• 4:21Speaker 04

  Public school classroom and turned over the desk. What percentage of desk would have gum stuck to the underneath?

• 4:32Pablo Torre?

  I went to parochial Catholic school. It felt in my mind like it was 99%.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  I went to a private school and it was heavily gummed.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  So I went to a very public school in a small town in North Carolina. And I would guess it was 100%. That you'd probably be okay on the over under being every desk.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  I was just happy to see John smile when I got in today.

• 5:01Pablo Torre?

  Were you concerned?

• 5:02Speaker 03

  Yes, I was very concerned.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  Because of?

• 5:05Speaker 03

  For myriad reasons.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  The election?

• 5:07Speaker 03

  The election was probably number one, but health, happiness, general overall demeanor.

• 5:12Pablo Torre?

  The pink guy's gone.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  As you go, so does the company.

• 5:16Pablo Torre?

  Is gone.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  And so when I come in and you're almost brilliant, it really, it changes the whole show.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  Well, you know, and I understand that Matt Gase is going to be the Attorney General. I don't know why I would be unhappy about anything.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  I thought you'd leave us for the cabinet. I thought maybe you were going to take over as something.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  I'm gonna take over and be the last Secretary of Education.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  There's a lot of misunderstanding about that.

• 5:45Speaker 04

  Which part?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  About getting rid of the Department of Education, which I'm not in favor of necessarily. I do understand exactly.

• 5:52Pablo Torre?

  Necessarily is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Well, I think that we need to understand what it, there's such misunderstanding about the powers of the president. Now, of course, he's got the House and the Senate, but you can't just wave a wand as president and have things happen. You do need congressional support, which in theory he will have for rational things. The concern I have is if there's support for irrational things.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  Well, of course, we're not on the topic of sports, but he's already suggested that the Senate should just take a little holiday.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  A recess, just an old fashioned recess.

• 6:27Speaker 04

  So he can just name his cabinet and not have the constitutional provision that the Senate should be a a check and balance on the system of presidential appointees. He'd like to suspend that part of the Constitution immediately. And further ones to come.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Listen, as a Floridian, former Floridian, where I started losing my mind only, and I'm not, I really have never told who I voted for, actually, but.

• 7:00Pablo Torre?

  This, this election?

• 7:01Speaker 03

  Uh, this election.

• 7:02Pablo Torre?

  I, I, David.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  It's an American's right to privacy.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  A hundred percent, but I just, no, Marco Rubio.

• 7:10Pablo Torre?

  You voted for Marco Rubio.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  As a Secretary of State is so troubling to me because I just know him from when he first started.

• 7:17Pablo Torre?

  Okay, wait, so, wait, so.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  I have his number in my cellphone.

• 7:20Pablo Torre?

  We're gonna, we're gonna text the Secretary, future Secretary of State Marco Rubio, a photo.

• 7:25Speaker 03

  He'll respond with the middle finger emoji.

• 7:49Pablo Torre?

  I want to get into this. I wanted to get into what the impact of this election has meant for the rich guys at the heart of Rich Guys OnlyFans, as well as the rich guys on top of sports. Like, I'm actually curious how that world, how your world, has reacted. But Marco Rubio is somebody that you know why.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  He was in the Florida House of Representatives when we were trying to get money from the state. And so I met him as a South Florida politician, and I was president of a sports team. He wanted pictures with the World Series trophy and autographs from players, and he promised us that we were gonna get this state money. And then he lied, basically. He's just a liar. And he is funded by a guy named Norman Berman. That's, his whole career is because of Norman Berman. He wouldn't have won school board election without Norman Berman. And you can look at it, you can, it's all public.

• 8:40Pablo Torre?

  I'm Googling Norman Bremen.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  Oh, you've never, oh, is that a name that no one knows?

• 8:44Speaker 04

  I, it sounds familiar, but I do not know who Norman Bremen is.

• 8:48Pablo Torre?

  American billionaire, car dealer, art collector, and former owner of the Philadelphia Eagles.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Yes, he was, and he's so.

• 8:55Pablo Torre?

  Blind spot for me.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Norman Bremen is famous because he sold the Eagles when he couldn't get his own public financing to build the stadium for the Eagles. And once that happened, he sold it to a guy named Jeffrey Lurie. Cut to, he then became an anti-public financing hawk. He became this bitter, crazy man who sued us. And I ended up in court next to Norman Bremen on the other side and kicked his absolute ass at every turn. But he did delay Marlins Park by a year through his frivolous ridiculous lawsuit, which obviously was not a winner of any kind. But he is, uh, and, and he thought it would be great to fund Marco Rubio, thinking that he would make for a great politician.

• 9:38Pablo Torre?

  Here's an article, John, from the Palm Beach Post, in case you were wondering about the provenance of David Samson's feud with Norman Bremen. Quote, Sampson also reportedly lashed out at auto magnate and civic activist Norman Bremen.

• 9:52Speaker 04

  Lashed out? I never thought I would heard that, that sequence of, of noun, verb, subject. David lashed out at Norman Bremen. So wait, go back and read the description of Norman Bremen. Norman Bremen is a billionaire who?

• 10:09Pablo Torre?

  Well, he's an auto magnate, a civic activist, and according to various other sources, an art collector.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  He has a very beautiful art collection.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Wait, you, you'd sum up the state of billionaires in that sentence? Which is, first of all, lots of people are billionaires now, including, is he referred to as an auto magnate?

• 10:29Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 10:30Speaker 04

  I believe that means he sells cars, right?

• 10:33Speaker 03

  That's exactly correct.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  He's an auto magnate, so he's a car salesman.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  He is.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  And he's made enough money, he's become one of the three to 5,000 billionaires in the world by selling cars, a reputable, reputable occupation.

• 10:48Pablo Torre?

  Sure.

• 10:48Speaker 04

  But usually didn't lead to billionaire status, does now. And what does he do with that money? He wants to buy, we've said it on this, on this show a thousand times, the reason that sports teams are going up is if you are a rich man. And if you're a rich white man, this is tripled. Uh, you want a team. Cause there is no better status symbol. And I always say.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  He had a team.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  And what I always say, it's just like art. It's just like buying a Vermeer. There are 32 NFL teams, there are 34 Vermeers. So every billionaire wants to buy art. I want to buy a team. Uh, they want to sell cars.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Norman's done it all.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Norman's done it.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Except win.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  He done it all.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  In court.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  And obviously, except win, your respect.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  You have to know that I was much younger than I am now. And he was in his prime and he did not enjoy losing to me.

• 11:42Pablo Torre?

  Can I give you the kicker? As, as we continue into this larger discussion to this article, which is quote, uh, and this is Norman Berman, aforementioned magnate. Uh, quote, "I wouldn't dignify David Samson by even guessing what he has to say." Berman said, interrupting the question. "That's how little I think of him."

• 12:01Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 12:02Pablo Torre?

  Period, end quote.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  But Norman Berman is not here on this show. Where probably you'd like to add to his art collection? And his team collection?

• 12:12Pablo Torre?

  We're gonna need a text.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  With a podcast, cause that's what every billionaire needs. Is a podcast to go with their art collection.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Did you think I was making up the Norman Berman stuff?

• 12:21Pablo Torre?

  I know that you are a, uh, what's the word? Uh, congenital truth teller, actually.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  I have no need to make up a story.

• 12:29Pablo Torre?

  I, I believed you, I just always want the color on what the scene of, of, of your description was.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Mayhem.

• 12:36Pablo Torre?

  But when John says, when he jokes billionaires need podcasts, they actually, it turns out, love and do want podcasts. And I bring up the election because I do want to know, the Norman Bremens broadly speaking, this population of rich people who own sports teams and or want to and or did, um, What's the reaction? What's the reaction, David? Uh, to this, to this election?

• 13:02Speaker 03

  There, there are many of the, there, there was a great, uh, story that we were told inside meetings, which is, we know that baseball, their mandate was to support both sides. So if you look publicly at the Legislative Affairs Department of Major League Baseball, it's about 50/50, uh, red, blue. But we're very aware, because we would keep track of which owners were donating red and which owners were donating blue. Some owners donated both individually, but some were very dead red and some were more blue. What we also tracked is what the meeting was like after an election, where everybody celebrated the red victory. And so it very much is a benefit for sports teams and sports owners. It's a benefit for big business.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  Everything you saw before this election, there's no question that Trump winning benefits the leagues, uh, as entities and the owners who own those teams. Whether it's through capital gains taxes, whether it's through the, the myriad tax loopholes that we've seen, there's just all sorts of the DOJ not being up in anyone's kitchen about antitrust. There's all sorts of interesting things that come of a red victory.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Do we know what Matt Gaetz's philosophical point of view is relative to anti-trust, the antitrust exemption of the sports leagues?

• 14:19Speaker 03

  I believe as long as there are young people around, he won't care.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  Has he written about that in a law review somewhere?

• 14:27Speaker 03

  You can Google it, I guess. So, I, I mean, you're asking a serious question. The serious is that there are many owners who are afraid to be red because they, they view it as a problem with their fan base. The NFL manifested it by not finding Nick Bosa until after the election for wearing his MAGA hat. He wore it, got fined, but only it was announced after the election for fear of any sort of election tampering, given how strong the NFL is. But privately, when there's no cameras on-

• 14:55Pablo Torre?

  Yes, that's what I want to know.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  They are very much happy that, uh, Harris did not win and that Trump did.

• 15:02Pablo Torre?

  But the biggest reasons, John, is this money? Is it as simple as taxes? Is that the number, a number one? Big headline here is that they're gonna make more money individually and therefore they're

• 15:14Speaker 03

  So they'll disguise it. They'll disguise it. They can hide behind Israel and they can hide behind other sort of things that, you know, smaller federal government, more power to the states. You can argue behind many different walls, but at the end, when they're quiet at a dinner, where no one's writing anything down, it's certainly about the impact on their businesses and on their net income.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  I'm shocked to find out that rich people might be happy about making more money.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  You're gonna benefit also, just FYI.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  No, I will not benefit.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  Now, now, it's interesting because I've spoken to a lot of people who did vote for Harris, and I am curious, and I've asked every one of them, and I'm batting a thousand. Are you going to not take advantage of any tax benefits that will exist? So for example, if Harris wanted 40% tax on capital gains, when it comes to your capital gains at the end of the year, will you pay the 20% that is required?

• 16:08Pablo Torre?

  Can you explain capital gains for our audience?

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Capital gains is when you buy something for a dollar and sell it for $2. There's a gain of a dollar and the government will charge you a tax on that gain. Whether you buy a house, a share of stock, anything that you buy at X and you sell at Y, the difference in X to Y, you pay taxes on. And if the Democrats have their way, that number would be bigger, a bigger percentage to the government. So if you've made a dollar, they may charge you 40 cents. Whereas the Republicans want to charge you 20 cents, or sometimes 10 cents. So what I've asked people is, will you donate that amount either to the government or to charity? Or are you gonna take the net difference between the 20 cents and the 40 cents?

• 16:54Speaker 03

  100 out of 100, 100%, we're taking the advantage.

• 17:00Pablo Torre?

  Of course.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course. I mean, it's called following the law.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  No, I don't, I don't know about that. It's not following the law.

• 17:09Speaker 04

  You are talking-

• 17:10Speaker 03

  You can overpay the government in taxes if you want. They're not going to put you in jail for overpaying your taxes.

• 17:16Pablo Torre?

  But you are implying that people, as a conscientious objector, would choose to send more of their money to this particular Trump administration? That is the, that is the-

• 17:28Speaker 03

  I also said charity, though.

• 17:30Pablo Torre?

  Oh, sure.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  I said, pick a charity and give the 20 cents to that. Zero.

• 17:36Speaker 04

  It's it's it's a clever uh it's a clever question and they of course you know what their answer will be which is no I'm not going to voluntarily give money I do not legally have to to the government that doesn't.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  And I'm not judging I'm just saying that's you're asking what the impact is of a Trump victory that's a real impact for people who are large asset holders.

• 18:00Pablo Torre?

  And it's also clever because it is a different question that you're integrating into the larger premise of is this good or bad for the American economy is this a good or bad regime to exist under if you are concerned about economics right because yes terrible giving everybody should be more charitable that can exist regardless of whether Pol Pot is the president of the United States. The question here though is if you are running.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  I love that Pablo.

• 18:27Pablo Torre?

  You did not vote for Pol Pot just for the record.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  I I love that Pablo thinks that to our audience we must explain what capital gains is but that everybody will know who Pol Pot was.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  That's just a blind spot of his Harvard education don't worry.

• 18:43Pablo Torre?

  Pol Pot was a very popular musician in the 1980s.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  Very. He played a mean guitar.

• 18:49Speaker 04

  I thought Pol Pot was like when you're going out for an evening long marathon of partying it was the first joint you smoked it was the Pol Pot. Isn't that what it is?

• 19:00Speaker 03

  Never thought of that.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  I got the Pol Doob right here.

• 19:04Pablo Torre?

  Pol Doob.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  People always say doob as much as they used to hey you have a doobie that was my that was my nomenclature in college.

• 19:12Pablo Torre?

  You you were a you were a doobie.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  I wanted a doobie.

• 19:14Pablo Torre?

  You were a doobie brother.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  A doobie brother taking it to the streets.

• 19:18Pablo Torre?

  God. The point being here right if you're rooting for something if you're rooting for an outcome as as sports is concerned and again we've talked about all of the big picture macroeconomic concerns for sports right there's tech there is beyond that the degradation of the current media ecosystem and and of course cable television there are the desires to get money from overseas.

• 19:46Pablo Torre?

  In what ways is there a thumb on the scale of the biggest issues that we've been talking about beyond just taxes?

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Everything's easier now, so I'll give you, well, this is a tax, but something else that different than capital gain, estate tax. A lot of owners sell their teams for estate tax purposes, and there were thoughts and rumors that a blue victory would have really changed both the lifetime exclusions, the amount of money that you can give to your children or other people without paying an estate tax, it's called, and the number is now 13.6 million per person. So if you die with under 13.6 million dollars today, there's no estate tax. If you die with over that, there's an estate tax on the difference of 13.6 to what your estate is worth.

• 20:31Pablo Torre?

  Did John, John, did you know that specific number, 13.6 to the decimal?

• 20:35Speaker 04

  I do know that number.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  You're acting like it's something that no one knows. It's very interesting for me to know.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  By the way, we never explained who Pol Pot was, by the way.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  He hasn't had time to Google it yet.

• 20:46Speaker 04

  I'm sure Pol Pot was the leader of Cambodia, correct?

• 20:51Pablo Torre?

  Spoiler alert, yes.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  And maybe one of the greatest death spots in the 20th century.

• 20:57Pablo Torre?

  A Mount Rushmore autocrat of bad people.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  No, no, killed, killed and is right up there, because I think that killing your own people is slightly worse than killing.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  There's a lot of bad people in Africa.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Well, he killed a lot, but he mostly killed Cambodians.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  No, I'm saying that he is, while he may be on the Mount Rushmore, there's people who we haven't heard of who would, who have done some very bad things. Anyway, I digress, but estate tax is a major reason why teams are so.

• 21:24Pablo Torre?

  No, let's rank all of the, let's rank the dictators. Who's the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the underrated but all-time scorer who just really, estate tax?

• 21:33Speaker 04

  Well, by the way, Pol Pot is up there.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  He's up there. I'm not sure the younger people know who that is.

• 21:38Pablo Torre?

  No, and I, he's my go-to because I want people to go and Google him on their own when they think that I'm making up a name because it sounds silly.

• 21:46Speaker 04

  Well, it's a cool sounding name, too, Pol Pot.

• 21:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I never thought of it as a cool name. If you've seen The Killing Fields.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  I could see Mr. and Mrs. Pot at home going, what do you think?

• 21:56Pablo Torre?

  There is a bit of a children's book aspect to like, is my imagining.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  Bean Pot, how about Bean Pot? No, no, how about Pol Pot?

• 22:03Pablo Torre?

  Coca is

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Coca likes to move on immediately.

• 22:05Pablo Torre?

  Just so you know how this show works. We go into a digression.

• 22:08Speaker 04

  Wait, is that on the tape? Does actually everybody get to hear that?

• 22:11Pablo Torre?

  No.

• 22:11Speaker 04

  Because that's

• 22:12Speaker 03

  It's only in our ear.

• 22:13Speaker 04

  We just heard in our ear Matt Coca say to us, "Move on, move on." So we now know that the younger audience

• 22:22Speaker 03

  It's boring.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  Does not want to hear more about Whole Pot.

• 22:25Pablo Torre?

  Our focus group has decided that we should move on.

• 22:36Pablo Torre?

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• 23:21Pablo Torre?

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• 24:06Pablo Torre?

  Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

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• 25:25Pablo Torre?

  I want to get to another figure who has broad appeal. One of these, God, if you're drinking at home and I say this all the time, take a shot when I say monoculture, but Caitlin Clark feels monocultural at a time when nobody short of Donald Trump necessarily feels that way. And I want to disclose that John Skipper, in his business interests beyond being the head of Metalark Media, is involved with something called Unrivaled. And so, John, can you explain Unrivaled so that we can disclose your priors and your stake and then get into the discussion?

• 26:01Speaker 04

  So, I am an investor and an advisor to Unrivaled, which is a three-on-three women's basketball league that will play its first game January 17th.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  Uh, mark your calendars. I do have a conflict of interest here, so because I am an investor, so that, thanks for disclosing that and uh.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  It's a brand new league.

• 26:24Speaker 04

  Brand new league.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  And it has a brand new media deal. It's been in the news nonstop. So you're downplaying it, but it's really hard to start a new league.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  It's really hard to start a new league.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  It's off to an amazing start.

• 26:34Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, TNT Sports is, is the partner.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Which is huge. It's gonna be in Miami.

• 26:40Speaker 04

  We'll play in Miami at a purpose-built stadium that seats slightly under a thousand people. So.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  Are you gonna call it a stadium? I, I would think, I wanted to know.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Arena, probably arena.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  What about studio?

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Well, that's interesting. Uh, I have not actually thought about whether we're calling it anything other than a Miami purpose-built stadium, but it is a good idea to probably name it something that says what it is, which is an intimate place to see basketball. And it is intended, one, to ensure that the cameras are right on top of everything and everybody watching is on top of everything. Cause it'll give you a more, you know, up close look at the game.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  I don't wanna derail this, but that's a huge point. And right now, when stadiums are being built, they're being built smaller. Cause the focus really is on the TV audience and the broadcast revenue is a much bigger component of your business. Unrivaled is taking that to a brand new level. They could have made a deal and played where the Heat play or played where the Panthers play. Instead, they're going to an 850-person studio, I'm gonna call it that, I'm gonna see if it sticks, that they're building. And it's a TV studio. That's why I'm calling it that because the deal they have with TNT, that's gonna reach, that's the audience. The people in Miami going to the games, you're gonna get a really cool experience. It's like when you go see a late night show live.

• 28:01Pablo Torre?

  Well, I was gonna say, it's unsurprising that John Skipper would invent a, would help oversee the construction of a venue that is more jazz club than NFL stadium. That does track with John's interests.

• 28:13Speaker 04

  Well, it does track with my interests. It doesn't track with the decision-making process. Was not my idea, though I think it's a good idea. And David's right. I mean, it is intended to. To put the highlight on the game as it is seen by its principal audience, which is the television audience.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  There'll be 850 lucky people every game.

• 28:34Speaker 04

  Oh, it'll be fun. It'll become a hard ticket to get. Um, and we will jam in a few more people who can stand around, but it is all done to make the presentation for the television audience that everybody looks like they have a front row seat.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:49Speaker 04

  So you won't, there's no place to put a camera that is in the camera positions that usually go in the upper deck, right? All of the camera positions are low and so you'll see it, but I know, I know that's, um, uh, not what we want.

• 29:04Pablo Torre?

  Well, I'm trying to set up just also, you're talking about the micro, the macro here is that the WNBA offseason has been the point in the year when the best players would go to Russia or they would try to, right? Uh, as Brittany Griner experienced there, they would go to Turkey, they would go overseas. And this is meant to fill that and keep them domestically.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, the, the WNBA season is sort of March to October. Um, so the women, many of the best female players in the world have gone to play in China and Russia and Turkey and, um, Israel, interesting. And, uh, those, and that was to make more money, right? They actually made more money.

• 29:47Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 29:48Speaker 04

  In Russia and China, not, that's not a good option right now.

• 29:51Pablo Torre?

  Well, and keep in mind just what, what the through line through the countries we've just listed, right? If you're geopolitically aware in any vague sense, you get the idea that this isn't exactly the easiest or most comfortable place for some of these women to want to be, if not for the money that was being offered by the heads of state.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Because they needed it. And as I'm evaluating.

• 30:10Pablo Torre?

  They were making more, way more over there.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Well, because the WNBA doesn't pay enough to not work. The theory is even when you're making the minimum as a major league baseball player and NBA player at the minimum, you're still making enough annually that you don't need to work during the offseason. If you're a minor leaguer, you do. For the WNBA, these players needed to work during the offseason because the WNBA salaries were not enough. So one of the business risks, and it's not that I was ever asked to. Be an investor because none of us were told we read it in the paper. Yeah, who's counting? Here at Metal Arc, but we're not upset about that. I mean, but we are. But one of the business risks that would be in any prospectus would be if the WNBA is as successful as they think they are. If they become as successful as they think they already are and the players start making more and more money.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  One of the risks would be that they would not need to play during the offseason.

• 30:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would define need to play. The the fact of the matter is these women who are the best players in the world had the opportunity to make more money, right? And the wages in the WNBA were not high enough that you could simply say, that's okay. I'm making forty three million dollars already. I don't need to go make another twelve by playing somewhere else. They, you know, were making more modest salaries and because the teams in China and Russia and Turkey are mostly supported by oligarchs.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:37Speaker 04

  Um, they are non-financial teams for the most part, meaning they're losing money. Uh, and back to where we started with the auto magnate wanting to own a team. Turns out the oligarchs uh.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  Want to own a league?

• 31:52Speaker 04

  Want to own teams as well.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, would love a team of high performing women from America to play for them.

• 31:59Speaker 04

  So they had an opportunity to um go somewhere else and make seven figures. That's, you know, I didn't turn down a lot of seven figure jobs when I was twenty three, twenty four, twenty five. Uh, and they had that opportunity. The unrivaled is intended to, it's in January, February and March before the WNBA season. So it doesn't interfere with the season. It is intended to provide the opportunity for the best players in the world to stay in the United States the whole year. That works well with their sponsorships, with their families. Um, and um. And maybe with their personal lifestyle. They probably won't to be near their hometowns or in the United States, near their families for the whole year.

• 32:44Speaker 04

  They don't have an opportunity. Now their opportunity is here. That's what it's intended for. And we have been successfully in getting, we have signed 30 plus, 30 of the WNBA players. And our intention was to sign the 30 best players. We have probably 30 of the 35 to 40 best players in the league are signed. With a couple of notable exceptions, uh, which is, and the most notable exception is Katelyn Clark.

• 33:14Pablo Torre?

  And this is why your disclosure of a conflict is actually the reason I wanted to talk about this. It's because you guys have so many of the names you would know. Angel Reese, by the way, is also in this league. Breanna Stewart, Nafisa Collier. These are the, the two main UConn products who are the faces of this, seemingly on the ground floor of this in a business sense and otherwise as recruiters perhaps too. In this case though, the biggest fish, David, and it's not close, is of course Katelyn Clark. And that is not a statement, as we always have to caveat about, is she the number one best player in the league? That's an argument that many have had and will continue to have in the ways that we want to Mount Rushmore everything. But in terms of the draw, the biggest free agent, the biggest economic stimulus package

• 33:56Pablo Torre?

  that can be provided to a startup like this, it's obviously her and she is not signed.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  She's bigger than even Shohei Ohtani in terms of direct. My view is that in terms of direct relation to bottom line performance of a league, you get Katelyn Clark, you are able to go to banks and present financials that are way more base case than upside case. And your base case goes higher, you have more access to capital, your sponsorship revenue goes up, every, your media rights deal, I assume there's some sort of minimum guarantee and maybe an upside, maybe whatever deal that was negotiated. Having Katelyn Clark is an absolute economic boon, which is why there's a rumor, and we have the person right here who can confirm it or not confirm it, that she was offered what, what has been called a messy like deal.

• 34:44Pablo Torre?

  And that is Leo Messi.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Right? Who, is there another?

• 34:48Speaker 04

  As opposed to a M-E-S-S-Y. A messy like deal.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  I've never used messy like as in you're like Messi, like from the valley?

• 34:56Speaker 04

  I'm just trying to help host the show. Just trying to be clear to our listeners.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  I apologize if people heard Messi like and didn't know I was referring to the MLS deal.

• 35:04Speaker 04

  They know Paul Pot, don't know Leo Messi. Move on, move on.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Is he telling you that?

• 35:07Speaker 04

  No.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  So, I'm curious, as I think about it, what would I offer?

• 35:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  To get a free agent like this.

• 35:14Speaker 04

  How do you recruit a transcendent superstar?

• 35:17Speaker 03

  I'm making it so she can't say no, because that's how important she could be to our league. Now, they've done an amazing job of standing on their own two feet without her. But the incremental benefit, there's no free agent like her in the world, male or female, I would argue currently.

• 35:34Speaker 04

  Well, you could actually, while you said Messi like, the one example you might come up with is Messi in the MLS, though I doubt that it is quite as dramatic. It certainly was dramatic in terms of merchandise, but so that, but I agree with you. There are very few instances of where one player in a league brings as much value as she does. Again, we're not talking about who the best player is, we're not talking about what the most fun thing to watch would be necessarily, though she's lots of fun to watch. Yes. But in terms of value, if you were starting a new league, which we are, and in the first game, the most impactful thing that could happen would be that Katelyn Clark would be

• 36:18Speaker 04

  there, and she would be playing. I am certainly willing to disclose that, of course, the league has been in discussions with her. I can't disclose anything about any specifics, including whether it's Messi like.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  It's just us.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  It's just us and some number of people listening, and legally, It's just us and Mark O'Ree on speakerphone. I have an obligation to not disclose. So, but there's no reason not to disclose that, yes, we would like to have Katelyn Clark in the first game. Yes, we have discussed that with her. The answer has neither been yes nor no yet, though we will know yes or no pretty soon. And I won't characterize what the chances are of one or the other, because I don't know, because it's only one person knows, and that's her. Obviously, we would love for her to play in this league. We have made her a very attractive offer. I won't characterize whether it's Messi or Messi like. But can I ask, can I ask a general question?

• 37:17Pablo Torre?

  Which is about the deals being offered to these athletes. Of course, in a normal league, right? You're not getting the same deal if you're Breanna Stewart, multiple MVP, reigning champion versus the more anonymous player, right? So there are, so in terms of the, this, the scale of this, what's been reported, John, is that the average is projected around $250,000, higher than the WNBA's highest base salary. Plus, there's an equity stake. Is that something that you can comment on? Or can you just let that, let that sit there?

• 37:50Speaker 04

  Every, every player has a, has equity in the league. All 30 of the women signed have equity in the league. Now, Nafisa Collier and Breanna Stewart are co-founders. So nobody will get a better deal than the co-founders.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  Words to live by. So I digress.

• 38:11Pablo Torre?

  As I stare into the camera and break the fourth wall.

• 38:16Speaker 03

  But I would mention that that is what you do in a startup when you're, when you need, you're dependent. They are your product. And unrivaled, you could go the Ice T or Ice Cube.

• 38:27Pablo Torre?

  Oh, boy.

• 38:28Speaker 03

  Which is the three on three league.

• 38:30Speaker 04

  Just calling Mr. Ice.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Cube, Ice Cube. You could go that way. There's also leagues where the league owns all the teams. That's common when it starts where unrivaled would own their trying that and live actually. But here it's interesting. You're giving points away to the employees because players are employees of a league, of a team.

• 38:52Pablo Torre?

  Points being shares in the company.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Points being shares in the company.

• 38:55Speaker 04

  I would point out that Metalark has given shares to all employees as well.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  Very nice of you. And, but I was going a different way, which is that there is a limited amount that you have only 100 points to give. And so that once you give to somebody, is there a mechanism where if they get hurt, if they stop playing, if they stink, what is the mechanism to get them out at a prearranged number in order to replace that equity? With the next, because I hate to say this, I'm very sorry.

• 39:26Pablo Torre?

  You're already thinking about firing people.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  There'll be another Katelyn Clark.

• 39:29Pablo Torre?

  It's remarkable. The league hasn't even played a game yet, you're already firing.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  Because when you give equity away, you only get to do it once. You don't get to, you don't get a second chance at the 100 points that you have to give away. So it's a very risky strategy. Because he's giving equity to the best players, he called it the 40, 35 to 40 of the top 30 players. That list will be different in five years. The top 40 players will be different.

• 39:55Speaker 04

  But you would be able to guess what the mechanisms for that are, right? You get equity, invest over time. If for some reason you get hurt and can't play, um, you won't get more equity.

• 40:10Pablo Torre?

  But notably, we've already signed Paige Becker's. The incoming next generation.

• 40:15Speaker 04

  We think it's a risk worth taking that she will turn out to be a great NBA, WNBA player, a great unrivaled player. We did a NIL deal this year and she has already contracted to play in the league next year. And you're right, somebody will not be, will not perform well and will not be in the, but they are multi-year deals, so we are taking a bet that there will be some consistency. Uh, and again, I gotta be fairly careful about what I disclose about the contracts, because I'm not supposed to disclose the, the material terms of the contracts. I certainly won't talk about anybody's specific salary or equity, but.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  We can guess, though.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  You can guess all you want.

• 40:57Pablo Torre?

  I wanna, I wanna do a quick.

• 40:58Speaker 04

  It will not add up to more than 100. I'll give you, I'll give you that clue.

• 41:11Pablo Torre?

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• 41:55Pablo Torre?

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• 42:40Pablo Torre?

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• 43:20Pablo Torre?

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• 44:05Pablo Torre?

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• 44:31Pablo Torre?

  What I want to get to, because we're not going to extract from John as much as we strap him to the torture device that this chair is, we're not going to get the is it seven figures plus a percentage of the broadcast deal, which is the Leo Messi-like deal. It's not-

• 44:45Speaker 03

  Or an increment over what the basis of the broadcast deal, if there's an upside to it, she could have a piece of that.

• 44:50Pablo Torre?

  Could she be made to have the largest, the largest non-co-founder stake by a lot? We're not going to get that from John.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Or larger than a co-founder's stake.

• 44:57Pablo Torre?

  Yep. These are merely hypotheticals, as John is swirling in his chair, not commenting.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Oh, we could keep going. I'll go all day.

• 45:04Pablo Torre?

  We really could.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  About the things that they could have offered her.

• 45:06Pablo Torre?

  But on this, in terms of like how you would court the equivalent of a Caitlin Clark, let's make this generic now, but specific to your experience. You gotta get a big fish, a whale, right? Like, what's the deal you would construct, given the abstract scenario?

• 45:20Speaker 03

  There are so few players who I can have a direct correlation. And the Dodgers are trying it with Otani and all the rumors that they made 120 million this year in sponsorship, incremental sponsorship deals, and incremental gate revenue. In 18 years, I never had one player, never had it proven to me, whether it was Bonds, or Sosa, or Maguire, or anybody, that there was an increment that was due to that player, where you could justify a certain expenditure. My view is, if I know that I do something that will make me $10, that I have no other way to make in the world, I need this person or this thing to happen, I'd give him $7. I'd give him $8, because I'm still gonna get $2 that I never would have been able to have.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  There's never been a player that exists like that.

• 46:07Pablo Torre?

  Wait, wait, wait. You're saying that in your experience in baseball, there was never a player that moved that needle?

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Meaningfully enough, that would cover their salary, never once, and there's never been a player. And, and anyone who tells you otherwise, they're, they're simply lying to you. But I'm about to give you the exception. Katelyn Clark, with Unrivaled, would be the example, where she will bring with her a pot of money that otherwise would not be available to Unrivaled, and that would help inform me what I'd be willing to give her. Which I assume is what they are willing to give her, which is gonna be far greater than anyone else in the league. It will be more money overall comp than the co-founders. There will be an opportunity for more equity, because it's measurable, because I bet that they've negotiated in a way with their partners,

• 46:53Speaker 03

  that should they get this tornado of benefit, which is named Katelyn Clark, then what may be worth $1 today is worth $2 tomorrow, and they want to monetize that.

• 47:05Pablo Torre?

  So, I wanna do-

• 47:06Speaker 04

  The tornado of benefit?

• 47:09Speaker 03

  It doesn't happen often, and it's a tornado because it doesn't last that long. But when, when it hits you, you get swept away in it, but then it's gone.

• 47:17Pablo Torre?

  So, beyond the natural disaster metaphor here. I don't know, I don't know if I buy the argument you're making as a categorical observation. LeBron James wouldn't move the needle, right? Patrick Mahomes wouldn't move the needle.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  There's no $50 million of revenue going to the Lakers for LeBron James. Extra, an extra incremental $50 million.

• 47:37Pablo Torre?

  I think there is a case you can make, based not on simply, um- What the broadcast revenue would be, or even the gate revenue would be, but the other factors of being a team that made X number of championships over X number of years.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  Listen, on an annual basis, no player pays for himself. Would I argue that the Warriors are worth more today because they won the titles with Steph Curry?

• 48:02Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Than they would have been had they not? You're right.

• 48:04Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  How do I allocate that to specific players? I've never seen the math on that.

• 48:09Pablo Torre?

  Well, that is a clever way of saying. I do a lot of math, but that math, ooh, that's a little too hairy for me.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  But can you do it?

• 48:16Pablo Torre?

  Well, I think you can make an argument, but I digress now, John. I'd like you to help me.

• 48:19Speaker 04

  I do think David's essential point is correct. She is sui generis, meaning I'm not sure I can think of another athlete who just clearly drives attendance, drives ratings, drives merchandise, and it is incremental, right? I mean, I don't know what the NBA merchandise does year to year. LeBron, I'm assuming, is a significant portion of it, but probably the aggregate NBA merchandise doesn't go down much.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  They buy their players.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, when he retires, the jersey sales will not go down very much.

• 48:56Pablo Torre?

  I agree with Katelyn being number one by far on the list right now. That is true.

• 49:03Speaker 04

  And David's only point is that it is such a phenomenon that in order to get her to the league, I'm assuming you did the math of what the incremental revenue would be and made an offer that reflected that. And without disclosing what any of that is, the answer is that philosophically, of course, we did the math.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  John is not a stupid businessman. This is a business transaction with her.

• 49:29Pablo Torre?

  Do you remember, David, just as a matter of like the soft factors in a courtship, in a recruiting process? You said that you-

• 49:35Speaker 04

  I would think David was better at the hard factors.

• 49:38Pablo Torre?

  Well, I want to know, what's David Samson like trying to court-

• 49:42Speaker 04

  Charming, charming.

• 49:43Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  No, I let other people be the charming. We just would go through, our biggest pitch being in Florida was, we would talk to the players and explain to them what their net take home would be by not having state tax in Florida. So if they were thinking about other NL East teams, we would compare it to New York and Pennsylvania, and at a time Montreal and whoever was in your division. And we would talk about how if you don't get, and I would simply say, if you want to play with the Mets, that's fine. Here's what they have to offer you in order for it to be the same for you and your family as playing for the Marlins.

• 50:15Pablo Torre?

  All roads lead back to taxes in that sense.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Well, that is, it's an argument. It's real.

• 50:19Pablo Torre?

  But I want to ask you about, just, I'm going to pick a star player from the past at random. What was it like to recruit Jose Reyes?

• 50:29Speaker 03

  It really was about years and money. He had a number in mind. He wanted to get as close to 100 million as possible. And we knew before free agency started what the number was. And we pretended to not want to do it. And then we gave in at about 12:02 a.m., two minutes after free agency started, so we wouldn't get accused of doing a deal before, which we'd already done.

• 50:50Pablo Torre?

  Great.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  And we met with him literally at midnight at a bar in New York. And he agreed. He was upset with the Mets for not being more aggressive.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  What'd you order?

• 51:01Speaker 03

  It was drinks at that time of night. But Jose was on time.

• 51:05Speaker 04

  I was looking for the specific beverage of negotiation. It's like the tornado of benefit. What was the cocktail of negotiation?

• 51:12Speaker 03

  I was too anxious to drink.

• 51:14Pablo Torre?

  It was a dark and stormy, in fact.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  It was, but we had gotten a private area in a bar. And, because Jose Reyes at the time was a very famous New Yorker.

• 51:22Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, former middle infielder.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  People may not have heard of him. He was a shortstop.

• 51:25Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, shortstop for the Mets.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  For the Mets, very famous.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  Why wouldn't you just go somewhere private? Why would you be talking about 100 million dollars in a public facility?

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Because we thought that it would be cooler to have sort of, what we dreamt about is that he would say yes on the spot. And that we'd like unveil him in this bar of hardcore New York fans and be like, F you, he's a Marlin. That's where my head was.

• 51:50Speaker 04

  So it was the bar of fandom. It was the bar of fandom.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  It was like with sports people around, and it would have been really something.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  God.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  And by the way, Mets fans to this day were not happy, but it's okay.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  How many?

• 52:03Speaker 03

  You only lasted a year.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  Players ever said yes to you for less money than someone else offered them?

• 52:09Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm pretty sure never. In my career, and that's hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of players.

• 52:15Speaker 04

  We, in every, in the, uh, number of, I did rights deals. And people would always talk about what rights were worth and what we would pay. And I always, of course, said, and you've heard it here before, one dollar more than what anyone else will pay. And I can only remember one rights deal, two rights deals, in the history of all the deals I did where somebody took less money. And that was the Little League World Series, one of the most lovely events on ESPN. Now, they didn't take much less money, but they took slightly less money to stay on ESPN because-

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Order of magnitude.

• 52:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  Like 10 grand or like 2 million?

• 52:56Speaker 04

  Uh, probably like a million.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  That's significant, but that's not nothing for that deal.

• 53:00Speaker 04

  Nothing, but they were getting paid tens of millions of dollars annually.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  That's their only, that's really their main income.

• 53:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  But they wanted to be on ESPN.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  They wanted to be on ESPN and they were appreciative that ESPN had built the property from something to something dramatically bigger. I, I know people who were on my staff used to say, let's remind them that when we first put them on ESPN, they weren't very popular and now they're a big deal and we should get it for less money. That never worked.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  You created a monster.

• 53:32Speaker 04

  That never worked. And in fact, to, to be fair, the, they, the, these guys were great, by the way. Lovely guys and they didn't, we, we had a handshake deal and I, I said, did we, I forget how, but at some point I asked them, did, I'm assuming we had the highest bid and they said, no, in fact, you had a marginally lower bid than someone else, but we wanted to be with you. Why? They didn't just say, if you'll pay $1 million more, we have a deal. I think that's the guy, they wanted us to know they were those kind of guys.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  I think when you talk turkey with Katelyn Clark, I think that you don't, you don't slow talk it. So the way we were with free agents, the way you gotta be with someone like Katelyn Clark, is you're not really selling, you can go through the PowerPoint of the vision. Here's what unrivaled is, here's all the people involved, here's what we're trying to do. You really are trying to compel her to do a business deal along with her representatives. Because my guess is she doesn't come alone to the negotiation. My guess is she has representatives, she has a business manager.

• 54:30Pablo Torre?

  Of course.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  She likely has a social secretary who has her plan for January through March. She likely has an agent who's negotiating certain provisions of what she would like in terms of accommodations and travel. And the job is to explain to the player that this will be additive to you. Because she already knows of someone like Caitlin Clark and many players were this way. We know that you want us. We know that you, that I can help you win. So what, why, why do I, why should I come to you? And that's sort of like what Juan Soto is going to be doing during the meetings he's having with clubs. Of course, he knows his worth and so do the other teams, but he can sit across the table and say, well, I know what I bring to you. What are you gonna do for me in addition to matching the money?

• 55:14Speaker 03

  That's why I think there's other things that Caitlin Clark will need in order to do a deal with Unrivaled.

• 55:20Pablo Torre?

  John, you mentioned that there was another deal you, you struck where the...

• 55:24Speaker 04

  Oh, this is, this was great. This was the college football playoff. In which we were instructed that we would need to put all but one of the games on ABC. Uh, because they did not want to be on cable television. They want to be on broadcast television. And so I convinced my boss, who was George Bodenheimer at the time, that we would put in two bids and one of those bids would be $25 million higher than the other bid. And that would be that if we put all the games on ESPN, we would pay $25 million a year more. Than if we didn't put all the games on ESPN.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 56:10Speaker 04

  And in fact, the college football playoff committee decided they would take the bigger money, even though they had told us they wouldn't be on cable television. In fact, I was mofed by the principal negotiator for, which was a guy named Barry Frank, who's a legendary, he's passed. Uh, but he was a legendary, um, CAA guy.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Agent.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Hey, then he invented many, many, he invented senior skins and he invented, uh...

• 56:39Pablo Torre?

  Senior skins?

• 56:40Speaker 04

  The, um, weightlifting strongest man. Uh, he's really an interesting guy and did a lot of interesting things in sports. Uh, he could not imagine one of those being taking the college football playoff and putting it on cable.

• 57:08Pablo Torre?

  So at the end of today's show, a show, uh, about finding stuff out, about sports business in particular, what did you guys find out today?

• 57:15Speaker 03

  I actually found out that John has masterminded an incredibly interesting business in Unrivaled that really has a chance to work, and that's really cool.

• 57:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, certainly I did not mastermind it. There's a guy, Alex Bazell and Nafisa-

• 57:29Speaker 03

  Giving you credit.

• 57:30Speaker 04

  Who, uh, with Nafisa and Brianna, uh, were the masterminds of this. I've been advising the masterminds a little bit, uh, and, um, I'm very excited about it. I'm very proud to be associated with it, and I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.

• 57:45Pablo Torre?

  What I found out today is that David Samson is now about to call Marco Rubio.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  To congratulate him on being secretary-

• 57:51Pablo Torre?

  Incoming Secretary of State.

• 57:53Speaker 04

  By the way, Marco will actually- He actually does know what he's talking about here.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Hold on, it's working. There's no possible way.

• 58:11Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metal Arc Media production, and we are produced by Walter Everoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tumanello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song, as always, by John Bravo, and we will talk to you next time.

• 58:54Speaker 03

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• 59:25Speaker 05

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• 59:48Pablo Torre?

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