What Society Values in Men, Where Does a Man Start, and Why Humility Makes or Breaks Us | ASK ME ANYTHING

the role of sports, politics, masculinity, and national pride. They then tackle listener questions on building meaningful male friendships later in life, reigniting a flat marriage, overcoming destructive habits, breaking generational patterns in fatherhood, exploring faith beyond traditional religious texts, and preparing mentally for a first archery elk hunt. Along the way, Ryan shares personal lessons from his divorce and recovery journey while both hosts offer practical guidance on leadership, relationships, personal growth, and becoming a stronger man. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 Father's Day Reflections 03:50 UFC at the White House: Wholesome or Not? 11:03 Building Male Friendships After 30 21:45 Marriage Feels Flat: Where Do You Start? 31:39 Ryan on Divorce, Drinking & Real Change 39:16 Breaking Generational Patterns in Fatherhood 48:34 Faith Beyond the Traditional Canon 55:58 Mental Preparation for First Elk Hunt 59:29 Listener Feedback, Social Media & Closing Thoughts Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  One of the first things I noticed when I stopped drinking was my energy shot through the roof and I recaptured no less than four hours of every single day. So when you have four more hours of your day and you have those four hours are exponentially amplified through the energy that you have, I had a governor on this engine the entire time. The engine just wanted to run free and it's capable of so much more, but there's a governor on it that I didn't even know was there. Kip, what's up, man? So good to see you on the back of a Father's Day weekend. I hope it was

• 0:36Speaker 00

  good for you. I did the most dad things ever. I got up fairly early, went for a walk. My son wanted to play PlayStation for a bit, so we did that. Then I went grocery shopping. My daughter brought me cookies. My son took me to lunch. I built a bunch of stuff around the house, reorganized my bedroom, fixed the new podcast studio, which is where I'm at right now, played Lego, moved my youngest son's furniture around, moved my other son into a different bedroom, and then watched a movie. So it was like the most dad day ever. It was perfect.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  It sounds perfect, actually.

• 1:21Speaker 00

  It was good. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah. How about you? Do you have a good Father's Day?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was good. I mean, Asia does a great job making you feel valuable. It was funny. She had the kids fill out these sheets of, you know, do you know your dad? You know, like what is his favorite things and what does he hate? And then over dinner with the other dads, you know, in the family, they went around the room and you could say one word that explains each of them. Just one word. And pretty much I walked away with, I hate a clean, I hate a dirty home.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  I don't like wasting time and discipline, protect, provide masculine and jujitsu was the mantra of everyone's perception of me, which, which is okay.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Or anything like that?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'll take them. Yeah, I'll take all of them. Although there wasn't very many like loving, kind, considerate. So I kind of walked away with the day from my day with like, all right, maybe I need to be a little bit more softer, but it was funny.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  Maybe, but, but look at the reality of what they said. Protect masculine, jujitsu, like all the things that they said speak to capability and respect. So where I think women generally are more desired as, as a, as a soft, lovely, supporting, nurturing role. Men are generally desired as a strong, grounded, principled, capable, protective father. So I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't think, I think it's exactly as it should be.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll walk away with it. One word that was interesting was someone said, the one word that comes to mind when I think of Kip is solid. Ooh, I like that. Interesting. Yeah, me too. I was like, I'm not sure what you mean by it. My interpretation, I'm digging it. I'm digging solid. I'll take solid.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, just go with that. Don't even ask for interpretation. Just use yours.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Totally. Cause it could be like a solid piece of shit or something like that too. Like if you,

• 3:39Speaker 00

  it's like depending on what you're solid for, you know?

• 3:44Speaker 00

  All right. I want to, I want to talk about something. So I was thinking we need to create this, this new segment and I don't know what, what we call it, but the word that came to mind for me is wholesome. I like that word. I like the meaning, the significance of, of having wholesome activities and wholesome for boys and for men doesn't mean safe or.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Even nurturing or kind or empathetic, although it could be that. It could also be something that is just in our nature of protectiveness or, you know, a good guy is stopping a bad guy with a gun. So I think we should lead this off with something very, very polarizing. And the idea of this is it's either wholesome or it's not. And we need to decide, is it wholesome or is it not? And then the, the men who listen can chime in and tell us what they think. So here, here's, here's the topic. And this is, this is a little outdated because the news cycle moves so quickly. Uh, UFC at the White House, wholesome or no?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Am I going first?

• 4:48Speaker 00

  You can go first. We can talk or I can go first. I'm, I'm just throwing that on you right now. So if you need a minute to collect your thoughts, I can share mine.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, here's my thought. At, at first glance, there is a sense of coliseum to it. Right? Entertainment. And, and that I don't like, right? I don't like this idea of like, maintain the control of the masses by entertaining them with violence. It has, it has a little bit of a coliseum. Yeah, yeah. And so that I don't, I don't like about it. Now, I love fighting because I see it, I don't see it as cockfighting in a ring. And, and it's not to the death and it's skilled fighters that respect each other in a ring. And so from that perspective, I really respect it. And then you might go, well, it's

• 5:40Speaker 01

  unprecedented, right? We don't do this. And it's like, well, compare that to, you know, Biden's, you know, lighting up the White House with pride colors, you know, just a few years back. Or compare it to something pretty awesome, which I, I looked this up. Teddy Roosevelt. Haveling wrestling matches on the South Lawn.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Where he would actually fight people.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Where he actually fought people, which I think is just awesome. Right? So, so are we, is this like some thing that has never been done before and we're trying to distract people? Or, oh, we do this a lot and each president has their flavor and maybe they are using it for political gain. You know what I mean? Or distraction perhaps? Um, I'm just grateful that it was UFC fights because I enjoy them. So I'm a sucker for it, I guess.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  All right.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  I know that's not a wholesome or not. It's all over the place. Or no?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  I wouldn't put it in the category of wholesome. But I wouldn't put it in the category of bad. No.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  I think that's fair. I, I kind of feel the same way. So agreed about the Teddy Roosevelt thing, agreed about the, the pride celebrations at the White House. You know, and, and mixing sports and politics isn't uncommon. I mean, go, go to a football game for crying out loud, or even consider the Olympics. Obviously there's a lot of national pride or, or, or the, uh, the world cup is what we're, we've got going on right now. Which I think is pretty cool. I don't like soccer, but I think it's pretty cool to see these nations come together and compete in a respectful way. And so I, I think sports and national pride go hand in hand. And I think it's a great way to showcase an element of what we as Americans can produce.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  So from that regard, definitely wholesome. I, I did think there was some moments that, like, I appreciate the regalia. I appreciate the, the, the pageantry of it. I think it's pretty incredible to see. And I think Trump is actually really good at that. What I, what I don't appreciate a couple of things is, you know, where, where it becomes overtly political and charged, where it could be a moment to bring people together. It's like Hokit or whatever that guy's name. He's like, Michelle Obama's a man. I'm like, eh.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  That's stupid.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  You know, is that necessary? It's not necessary and it actually detracts and take, takes away from it. Or the post-fight interviews, everybody's swearing and cussing. And look, I, I swear time at times too, but there should be some level of reverence at, at the White House. And I think the event could have been done a little better from the regard of how the fighters presented themselves. But as far as the performance and everything else, I thought it was. Really good. I did take a little bit of issue with having foreign fighters. I mean, the first card was Diego Lopez.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Diego Brazilian.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  Brazilian.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  He's Brazilian.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  And the other guy is, I think he's, he's, he's American out of New Mexico, but he, at first I was like, wait, we have two, the first two fighters are not American, but I, but that's not true. The second guy, I can't remember his name was, but then to see Gagey, you know, win in tremendous fashion, obviously was very cool. So I took issue with having foreign fighters, but then I thought, well, no, this is kind of the same concept of the Olympics. Like you bring your best fighter, we'll bring our best fighter and we'll rally behind our best fighter. I, I rethought that one a little bit. So I would say wholesome, lacking in a few points that could have rallied more people together, I think.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it would have been, I would have enjoyed you all, a card of all American fighters fighting.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  I would have too.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  I, that way it's not like a us versus them. It's just us. And then it wouldn't, and then, and then the optics would look much better if someone lost that happened to be an American. You know, like a worst case scenario, you have this celebration of 250 and the main card guy loses to another country. Like you wouldn't want that either, you know?

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that would have been, that would have been. And it very easily could have happened. I mean, that was a huge, huge upset.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  But then I watched the fighters come out and I watched all the military members saluting and I thought at first I'm like, are they saluting the fighters? This is horrible.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  Military members do not salute civilians. Like this is, this is horrible. And then I realized, oh, wait, no, maybe they're actually saluting.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  The escorts.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  The, the escort of the, of the fighter. And so I'm like, okay, that makes sense. So it took me a minute, but I, at first I was like, I don't like that. I don't like that at all.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  And that was cool. I really liked.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Oh, it was very cool.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that they were escorted out. And how cool is that to, to have like kind of your fight team coming out of, like them coming out of the White House is, was awesome. And then being, and then what a great opportunity for those guys to be, to walk out with the fighter. I'm like, that's, that's pretty cool. That's, that was really neat. Yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  All right. So I think we both agreed that there was some great elements and some not so great elements, it sounds like.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Although, although very cool. How awesome would have been to be around during Teddy's Day and he's out there wrestling people as a US prep. Dude, I would, that would be so awesome. It'd be so awesome.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  We should do more of that. We should do more of that. All right. Let's get into some questions here. I've got one from Marcus Delgado. He says, I've been listening to the podcast for about two years and the Brotherhood stuff hits home because I don't really have it. I mean, we hear this all the time. He says he's 38. He worked remote. Most of his old buddies scattered after college. How do you actually build real friendships with other men when you're past the age where it happens naturally? It feels awkward to just walk up to a guy and say, hey, want to be friends?

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, look, it does happen naturally. I don't even say naturally. It just happens by default in a lot of ways, even as we're older. The guy friends that you do have are usually your neighbors, your brothers or your brothers-in-law, or the guys that you work out with or work with or go to church with. That's the reality of the situation. And the same was true when we were boys. It was the kids in our neighborhood. It was the kid in our class. It was the kid we went to church with, kids we played sports with, and they became our friends. But when we were boys, we never really questioned whether or not this is a good fit for me based on my personal goals. We never did that. But that's what you should be doing now. And I've talked about this probably for a lot of people listening ad nauseam at this

• 12:24Speaker 00

  point, is you, you have to go where the guys are. And, and I would say if you're trying to build friendships like that, it's usually one of four places, I think is what we've identified, Kip. In no particular order, church, the gym.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Business functions and there was a fourth one in there. Do you remember what it was? Church?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Probably like a hobby of some sort.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And that's where you go. Now, it would be weird if you walked up and said, hey, you, you look cool. Want to be friends? Just like you said, that's weird.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Although we both agree that you should and then let us know how it goes.

• 13:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. Why don't you do that and return and report and let us know how it works out for you?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be awesome and videotape it while you're at it. Cause we want to watch.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  It can feel a little bit like you're asking a grown man on a date. It can feel like that. So here's how you avoid that. Instead of asking a guy to hang out, invite him into something you're already doing. So for example, let's say you're at the gym. There's, there's a guy that you see regularly and you, you know, you, you talk or you catch up or you give each other some pointers or you say, hey, looking good, like something like that. And you kind of gradually build a friendship over time. The best thing that you can do is instead of saying, hey, want to hang out is saying, hey, man, like, I don't know if you like UFC or not, but this weekend I'm doing fight nights over at my place.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  There's like eight or nine of us coming over. We're going to bring our own meat and bring your own beer and I'm going to fire up the grill. I've got a, you know, big place for us to watch outside and we're just going to catch some UFC fights if you want to come over. And do you see how that no longer sounds like a date? It's like, hey, we're hanging out. If you want to come hang out with us, come hang out with us. And that's, that's how I would do that. And you could do the same thing for a church function or a camp out or a road trip somewhere or the hobby that you're engaged in. But always be the guy who puts things together and then invites other people. So I do this often, even with hunting and Kip, you know, this because you've had experience. Whenever I put together a hunt, I always go with other guys,

• 14:42Speaker 00

  but I always leave about 20% of the spots open from people I've never hunted with. And that's how you came on the Hawaii hunt, I believe, and Minnesota as well.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  And Minnesota. Yep.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Because we always leave 20% of the spots open for men we've never hunted with. And I say the same thing, hey, Kip, a group of us are going to Hawaii. And in some, and in some cases I ask your wife, which is what I did.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  To convince me.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  But yeah, we always leave that spot open so that we can invite guys who we are interested in bringing into the circle. And it takes a little bit more deliberateness, a little bit more intentionality, but build events or outings or gatherings and invite guys into it. That's what I do. That's literally what I do.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Ryan, can you talk to the, all the little things leading up to that though, right? So let's, let's say there's a guy at the gym. I'd like to invite him at Fight Night, but I never talk to him ever. I don't make a comment. It would be, it wouldn't be, it would be odd for me to say, do you want to go to Fight Night? He'd be like, I don't even know your name. So why don't you talk about some of the advice of those, of that nonchalant conversation, leading up to the invite?

• 15:55Speaker 00

  I, I, I hate to say it this way, but I don't really know how else to say it. It's a little bit like courting. That's what, you're courting people. Obviously not romantically, but you want to know, is this somebody, you might not even like the dude. He might be a tool and you're like, I'm not interested in inviting this guy over to Fight Nights. But usually what I, the best thing you could do for, with guys is just play to ego. That's it. So if I'm at the gym and I see you, you know, every day and we kind of like look at each other awkwardly when we walk in because we recognize each other, but we don't say anything. You know, I might just walk by you and say, hey, bro, I'm Ryan. We, we work out here all the time. It's silly. We've never said, hey, but I'm Ryan. What's your

• 16:38Speaker 00

  name? And you say Kip. It's like, cool, man. I just wanted to tell you like, you're looking good. Like I see you're leaning out or building muscles. So it looks awesome. Game over. It's it. It's really that easy. Or if you're at a business function and let's say Kip, you're, you're speaking at a business function. Maybe it's a Business Network International or a Rotary or a Chamber of Commerce meeting and you present on leadership. Afterwards, I'm going to go up to you and say, hey, you know, I, we don't know each other. I'm Ryan. It's good to meet you. Man, I really enjoyed your presentation on leadership about X, Y, and Z. Do you come to these meetings often?

• 17:17Speaker 00

  It's that easy. And I think a lot of times, men feel like, well, I don't, I don't want to come across as gay, or, or no homo. I'm like, nobody thinks you're a homo because you pay a guy a genuine compliment. Like, that's a, that's not a thing. So, just open your mouth, say, hey, man, you, you look like you have a great physique. I'm trying to work on building my shoulders and traps. Do you have any pointers? That's not gay. No man is gonna think that's gay. I've done that, and no man has ever said, get out of here, faggot. It's, oh, sweet, that's awesome. Yeah, I've done a lot of work, and, and I've done some things right, and some things not so right. Here's what I would do. And then that's how you build that friendship. And then you just make an effort to reach out every day. So, I'd, I'd go back to you at a chamber meeting, for example,

• 18:02Speaker 00

  and the fortune is in the follow-up, as they say. And so, I might come to you next week and say, hey, Kip, um, man, you remember that leadership principle you talked about last week, and I told you, I really enjoyed what you were saying? I actually implemented that this week, and I picked up three new clients through that strategy. Or you go tell the guy at the gym, hey, man, I've been working the shoulders and traps, and I gotta tell you, like, my wife last night put her hand on my shoulder, and she's like, hey, sexy, you feel good. And I just want to tell you thanks. So, you've got to follow up, too, and that creates more opportunities for these types of conversations.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, once all these are in place, then it's super easy to say, I'm ordering the fights next weekend, you want to come over? Now, now it seems way more appropriate, or not as awkward.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. There was a guy at the gym a couple of months ago, and he looked fit. He looked like somebody I'd probably hang out with, or spend time with. And he had a tank top on, and I saw his shoulder, he had a tattoo on his shoulder. And if I remember, I was, it was, it looked like a coat of arms. So, I just asked him, I said, hey, what, is that a coat of arms on your shoulder? He's like, oh, yeah, it's my family crest. I said, oh, that's cool. What's your, what's your heritage? What's your background? He's like, I'm Scottish mostly, and here's what this means, here's what that means. We got talking about Braveheart, and Scotland, and, like, it's easy. Just don't make it a big deal. Just go out of your way. And by the way, it's good practice to learn how to strike up conversations with strangers, same sex and opposite sex.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and you talked about this all the time. It's like, start crack, start prompting a conversation with the, the checkout lady, the cashier, just whoever, and crack jokes too, right? That's most of the guys at the gym, I've never striked up conversations too much around compliments, but it's usually me cracking a joke, right? Like the guys on the, on the hip thrust machine. And I'm like, do you mind if I do curls right here? Like in front of them?

• 19:57Speaker 01

  And then we all just start laughing, right? And we're like, okay.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  We've got two guys at the gym that I go to and they're, they're actually good dudes because I've met them now, but they're friends, but they, I, I actually wondered if they were gay because the way they spot each other and the noises they make when they're lifting. And when I, when I didn't know them, they're loud and very, very sexualized almost. And I would like turn to a guy that I've seen a couple and never talked to him. And I looked at him like, what the heck is going on, right? And he kind of just shakes his head. He's like, I don't know. And we just kind of laughed about it. But I think those guy, after talking with those guys and meeting them, I think they do it because they think it's funny. So.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Got it. Got it. But, but my point being is like you and that other guy, you're thinking the same thing, right? We have a guy at our gym that he brings his jump rope with him everywhere he goes. And, and so he's like on the bench machine, lays out towels, he's jump roping like in the hallway. And I'm like, and we're all like looking at each other like, dude, like seriously, like you're taking up too much space. We're all thinking the same thing. We're just laughing, you know?

• 21:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. All right. Let's go to question number two. So this one is from Tyler Brennan. I have the easy names. You always get hard names. I have easy names today.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 00

  Uh, actually, that's probably not his last name. I just say it like I know what it is. And then nobody else knows the difference except for Tyler.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  The difference is, is I'm admitting I don't know. And then you say it with confidence and everyone's like, Ryan's got the names down.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  That's a secret to life right there. Fake it till you make it, right? All right, so this one is. My wife and I are, you know, by the way, on that, nobody knows that you don't know. It isn't until you say you don't know.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, one person knows. That's it. Yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  But you also have to be careful with that because you don't want to say you know how to do something and you actually don't. So there, there is a trap there as well. So, all right, number two. So my wife and I are coming up on 12 years.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  And things aren't bad, but they're, but they're flat. We're more like roommates running a household than partners. I don't want to blow it up, but I don't know how to lead us back into something that actually feels alive. So where do I start?

• 22:17Speaker 00

  You know, I think the best place to start is you just take what you told me. And you say, hey, hon, I'd like to bring up some things tonight. Nothing's wrong, nothing catastrophic, like no big deal, but I just want to get on the same page about a few things. Can, can we chat tonight after I get home from work? Now, look, I want to be very clear. This is what you do not do. Hey babe, we really need to talk tonight. How does tonight at six o'clock after dinner work for you? That's messed up and people do that all the time. And I don't think they're being malicious. I think they're just being a little dense. Don't do that because now she's going to be worried the entire day about, does he want a divorce?

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Is he cheating? Did he lose his job? Like it's something catastrophic. So don't make her guess, just say, hey babe, I want to talk with you about a few things, just so you and I are on the same page about our goals and our dreams and hopes and desires. So I'm excited about being able to talk about it and I just wanted to see if we could carve out some time this evening.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  So, so that's what you do to set it up. And then you take what you just said and you say, hey babe, look, we're coming up on 12 years of marriage. I don't think things are bad, but I feel a little bit like things have been flat lately. And I'm not putting that on you. In fact, I'm taking responsibility for this. Sometimes I feel like we're more like roommates because we've got things in the house and we're running kids to sports and dance and recitals and PTA meetings and all these other things. Look, I don't, I don't want to ruin this. I don't want to lose what we have. I, I, I want to lead us back into something that both of us love and, and want and desire and are working towards.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  Just like you said a second ago about, about the guys who are all thinking the same thing. Guess what? She's thinking the same thing. And you know what you just did? You position yourself as an assertive leader that can be respected and trusted. Because if you're a man and you're noticing things that are going south or going wrong, or in this case, falling flat, and you're not bringing it up, what you're actually being, and the way she might actually be interpreting this, is that you're being cowardly. And she will not follow cowardice. She may do it for a while. She may put on a brave, happy face. But over time, she'll lose a lot of the intimacy and the romantic connection

• 24:41Speaker 00

  if she feels like you're acting cowardly. And it takes courage to bring up something like this. But I, I can't promise you, but I'd be willing to bet that she would breathe a deep, deep sigh of relief. And whether or not she vocalizes it, what she'll be thinking is, finally, he sees it, he recognizes it, he wants to take ownership of it, and we can actually start doing something about it. That's where I would start.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  I totally agree. I think an important thing too,

• 25:20Speaker 01

  there's a big difference in this interaction when you go first versus you being reactionary. And I just want to call that out, right? If, let's say you wait too long and then she comes to you. What will happen is, even though you might agree with her and go, oh my, you know, she brings it up and you agree and you're like, oh yeah, this is great. It will always, there will be a sense of her that will be like, is he only working on things because I brought it up?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  It's less important to you because you're reacting. But when you take initiative, you're also sharing that it's important to you.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  And it's not out of compliance, it's not out of someone else bringing it up. So it's really important that, that if you see the gap, that you act on it sooner than later, because that's what leaders do. And, and that will be way more meaningful than you reacting to her request.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and again, if you're not bringing it up, what you're doing is you're, you're not vocalizing it, but subconsciously you're asking her to be the leader. And she doesn't want to be the leader and you don't want to be the follower. So change the dynamic. One other recommendation I would give when you start having these conversations is.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  I believe that that men and leaders come with a plan. I don't think it's enough just to say, hey, here's some things I think we need to work on. What do you think? That's not leadership. I mean, it's a little bit of leadership because you went first, but it's not ultimate leadership. So what I would do in this case for Tyler is I would come into this meeting with a couple of ideas. So I would tell her what you just said. And then I would say, so, so here's what I'm thinking, babe.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  I think it would be helpful for us with all that we have going on with the kids and everything else. I think it'd be really helpful if we carved out every Thursday night. Because that's what works with our schedule for date night. And, you know, you'd be responsible for getting a sitter lined up. I'll be responsible for the plans, reservations, what we're doing. And let's just start doing that every week, starting this Thursday. Will you go out with me? Or, or you might say, you know, I was really thinking, maybe we just need a break. You know, it's summer now and we've been so busy with the kids and everything else and our own lives and career aspirations and pursuits. I was thinking in a couple of weekends, why don't we just go for a long three day weekend to Vegas or to somewhere?

• 27:52Speaker 00

  You know, maybe it's even close to wherever, wherever you might be. He's in Ohio. Maybe it's the lake, maybe it's the cabin, maybe it's, I don't know, whatever your thing is and say, hey, you know, let's just go for a long weekend and just get away and have some fun and get to know each other again. But I would come with two or three or four ideas that that will help. Get the ball rolling a little bit instead of relying on her to give you the feedback that that you feel like you might need.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  I like it. I like it. Yeah, I also wonder if.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  I don't know. Let me run this by you. Right? Like, there might be an element here of if you approach this wrong, it might come across as though she's the problem, right? That you might be coming to the table like, you know, trying to fix her, or, you know, she needs to change versus you, right? And so I would make sure that the conversation is about like, do you agree? Are you feeling the same way? Like, how are you feeling about things? How, how do you feel the same way? Is there elements by which we could have more excitement in, in our marriage? Like, get, make sure, don't assume how you feel is how she feels. Right? I, I've had, I've literally had this conversation once.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  And, well, more than once, actually. But one particular time I had this conversation and it was like, I feel great about everything right now. And I'm like, oh,

• 29:16Speaker 01

  I'm the one.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  That's weird.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, I, in fact, I thought it was really weird. I thought, man, we're, we're struggling. And she's like, I'm feeling really great about things. And I'm like, oh, got it. Now we're gonna talk about me then. And, and it changed the conversation. So get a pulse of where she's at. And worst case, you don't even have to operate in the area of like, something's wrong. The conversation might be in a how do we become more amazing?

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  How do we have more fun? How do we have some more passion? Nothing's wrong, but let's keep growing.

• 29:50Speaker 00

  Let's level up.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Let's, let's, yeah, yeah. So.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  I think that's right. I think it's also important just to focus on how you are showing up because, and this is a principle I know you've talked about with regards to jujitsu. If I push you, Kip, what are you naturally going to do? If you don't know the game. You're gonna push me back.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Just push back.

• 30:08Speaker 00

  If I pull you, what are you gonna do? Pull me back to your space, right?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  So, so if I come to my, my partner and I say, hey, you know, our marriage is falling flat and I really think you could do a better job. X, Y, and Z. She's gonna say, well, you know what? I really think you could do a job, a better job doing A, B, and C. And then that's not conducive to the relationship. So the best thing to do is to start with yourself, to pull, not to pull her, but to just start on yourself. So it might be, hey babe, the relationship, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like I, I've letting work kind of creep into the time a little bit. When I'm home, I feel like I'm not really as present as I could be.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  I'm not as diligent about making sure we are still courting and going on dates. And I would like to change that in myself. And you know what she'll probably say? Is she will probably say, well, I really appreciate you saying that, but also I have been distracted with the kids. And I have, you know, not been as open with you because I'm just tired. Or like, she'll start saying her things because you went first. And, and I think that's gonna happen more often than not. When you go at it like that and you point no fingers, let her point her own fingers. It's as the saying goes, let the dead bury the dead. You talk about your issues and she's much more likely to talk about hers. And then you guys can both agree and come up with a collective plan.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  All right, let's go to Devon Castillo. He says, you've talked openly about your divorce and your drinking. When you were in the thick of that, before you have the clarity that you have now, what was the moment of realization? Or excuse me, what was the moment or realization? That made you actually change instead of just telling yourself you would? Well, this is easy. It's not flattering, but it's easy. It's when she said she wanted a divorce.

• 32:13Speaker 00

  That was a real wake up call for me. And I've often thought, does?

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Does the hardship that we experience in life have to happen? Or will it only change once something catastrophic happens? Well, no, it just changes when you decide that it's changing. You don't have to hit rock bottom, as they say. In fact, I have a different definition of rock bottom. If you actually think about the analogy, you're digging a hole. Well, where's the bottom?

• 32:44Speaker 00

  When you stop digging, that's the bottom. What'd you say, Kip?

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's whenever you stop digging is when you reach the bottom.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the bottom could be catastrophic, or the bottom could be a minor inconvenience. It's just a matter of when you decide to crawl out of the hole and put the shovel down. So the real question is, does something catastrophic like a health condition, or a breakdown in a marriage, or a bankruptcy, or a loss of a job, have to be the catalyst for change? No, it certainly will be, but it doesn't have to be.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  So in order to ensure that it's not, here's what I could have done and utilized a little better than I did.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  I could have been more transparent about what I was dealing with. With her, with Kip, you, because you're a friend, and other friends, and confidants, and mentors. I could have been more transparent, because I feel like if I was more transparent, I would have gotten more support from the guys in my corner, who would have found it unacceptable and helped me walk through my own path of development. And what I did in those days, in those years, leading up to the drinking and to the divorce, is I isolated. I mean, I was very public facing, the podcast growing. From the outside, looked good, but I was very, very isolated mentally and emotionally. I siloed myself.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  And I had a, I have a friend, he runs a business called Rise Up King, Skyler Lewis. And he said, Ryan, you know, the worst thing that you can do when you're, when you're, he comes at it from a spiritual perspective, a Christian perspective. He says, when you're sinning, is it's not the sin that's so bad. He's like, it is, and obviously, we don't want to sin. It's when you start to hide it that you know it becomes a problem. Hiding hiding poor behavior is the signal that something needs to stop. And that's what I was doing. So it wasn't until it came to light that I could actually deal with it and fight it.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  So yeah. I let me ask you this, Ryan. Is is the sharing with those around you really an outward expression of you accepting and dealing in reality? Cause I I think that's what's required, right? For you to be able to say, hey, I'm struggling with this. You're really coming to the conclusion that you have a problem. But as long as you're not communicating it, there's a sense of denial happening. And justification. Yeah, justification. So you're never in a position of owning and dealing with with what is so and right in front of you. Because you're perpetuating this denial of it's not an issue.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  And and and really maybe a pulse check to to make sure that you're dealing in reality is can you openly talk about it? If you can't, then you're not accepting it yet. And until you accept your current state, you can't really grow from.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think I think that's a great perspective. I think you're absolutely right. I I know that there was many times when I was drinking really, really heavily where I thought to myself, you know, I I've got an issue here. I've got to do something about it. And then in the very next breath, I'm like, no, no, no, you can stop tomorrow. You you you you're you're not it's not an addiction or a temptation for you. Like this will be your last drink. You're good. Don't don't worry about it. You're good. And that was Satan working me over so that I could continue to pull the wool over my eyes. Because from all objective measures, external measures, like my bank account and my social media profile and how the marriage did look, it all looked good. So I could convince myself, what's the problem?

• 36:33Speaker 00

  But was what was interesting is one of the first things I noticed when I stopped drinking was my energy shot through the roof and I recaptured no less than four hours of every single day. Because for a lot of the days I was drunk, hungover or passed out. So when you have four more hours of your day and you have those four hours are exponentially amplified through the energy that you have.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  You realize, whoa, I, I had a governor on this engine the entire time. The engine just wanted to, to run free. And it's capable of so much more, but there's a governor on it that I didn't even know was there. And that was pretty telling to me. That was wild.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  What was the thought process or the paradigm shift when you were like, when your wife says, hey, you know, I want a divorce or this is over.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  What was the shift, right? Was it, was your thought process like, yes, I actually do have a problem? Was it the acceptance of I have a problem or was it something else?

• 37:41Speaker 00

  And I think that was part of it, but if I'm being really truthful about it, a big part of it was, I just didn't want to lose my marriage. I didn't want to lose her. I didn't want to lose the kids. And so a lot of the initial change that took place was for, for her and for them. And I don't think that's, I don't think that's wrong necessarily. I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I would say it's inferior motivation to doing it for yourself and doing, making changes, not, not to win her back, not to prove anything, but just because it's the thing that the man you want to be would do.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Totally. Although many of us would make drastic changes in our lives if we thought we were going to lose our families. Right? And, and that makes sense.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  Well, of course, that's why I'm saying it's not wrong. If that's the motivation you need to kickstart, you know, I used to make fun of New Year's resolutions. And I remember I made a post years and years ago about why New Year's resolutions are stupid. And somebody had made a comment. They said, why, why is it stupid?

• 38:45Speaker 00

  Why is it stupid that if somebody decides that January 1st is a good day to make behavioral changes that will improve their life? Why is that a bad thing? And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess it's not a bad thing. I guess it's actually a really good thing. Now you can do New Year's resolutions every single day, new day resolutions if you wanted to. But if that's the thing that causes you to change, then good.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  So be it.

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Fine. So be it. Just make sure you're elevating the reason you're doing it over time into something that is more sustainable.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Got it.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  All right. This one comes from Aaron Whitfield. I do have easy names today. He says, Whitfield, Jason Smith, John Jones. It's like, all right, Aaron says, I'm like, what's the problem, Kip? Why is this so hard for you?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, where are these guys from? Parowan? It's like a whole list of questions from Parowan.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  This guy's from Knoxville, Tennessee. I got another guy from Lubbock, one guy from Sacramento. So, all right, he says, this is Aaron, he says, I've got two boys, nine and 11. I grew up with a dad who was around physically, but totally checked out emotionally. I swore to myself I was going to be different, but I catch myself doing the exact same things that he did. How do you break the pattern you didn't even choose? That, that last line hits deep. How do you break a pattern you didn't choose? Cause you're right, you didn't choose it. Now, at some point, I believe that our excuses expire. When you're an adult and you keep saying, well, I'm this way because

• 40:24Speaker 00

  my dad, that's a problem. You're a grown man. And while that might be a factor, it's no longer an excuse. It's something that you need to wrestle with and deal with. So I would spend some time really journaling. I'm a, I'm a huge fan of journaling and documenting and asking yourself, you know, how do you wish he would have shown up differently? What would life have looked like if you did? What would he have done differently? How would he have felt about it? Where did he want to show up but didn't? Why didn't he show up the way that you think he should show up? These are all really enlightening questions when you start digging deep into the answers. So I'd spend a lot

• 41:07Speaker 00

  of time with self-reflection, not just like, I wish you would have showed up more. Of course you do. Why? What, what did that say about you? What did, what did him not being around make you feel? In what ways would he have done better? Those are, you just gotta ask yourself really good questions. And then the other thing that I would do, and this goes back to

• 41:29Speaker 00

  Oh, the question about the brotherhood, Marcus, when he talks about,

• 41:36Speaker 00

  it's awkward to say, hey, I just want to be friends with the guy.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  But what I would say to Aaron is this is part of the reason that it's so important to have high quality men in your corner. Because Kip, I sent you a message over the weekend with Father's Day and I just told you briefly, hey, man, I really, I really respect the way that you show up as a dad and you inspire me to be a better dad. Because here's the reality. You can only do what you know how to do, even if it's subconscious. So Aaron was talking about the pattern he didn't choose. Well, that's the only script you know. It's like, it's like, it's like asking a computer to do something you didn't program it to do. It doesn't even know, it doesn't know how to do the thing. All it knows is the program that was embedded and etched into the code. That's it. And human beings are the same.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  So how do you start doing things that you don't know how to do? You find people who can rewrite the program for you, or at least tell you there's another operating system you might be able to use. And that means going to business functions and learning things. That means listening to podcasts. That means joining fatherhood groups. That means having discussions about fatherhood. That means in your church congregation, if one's not already set up, you start a men's group, or you start a fatherhood group and you spend time with these guys and you challenge them and you let them challenge you and you start changing the paradigm in which you look at life. And I'm not here to tell you it transfers through osmosis. You still have to be deliberate about implementing it, but you can't implement what isn't there to implement.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  So the first step is to get new inputs into your life. Cause whatever goes in here, comes out. So if garbage goes in, the six inches between your ears, filth and garbage and degeneracy is going to come out. If good wholesome, powerful, productive information goes in, that's the output. Now it might take some time depending on how bad you've messed things up, but that's a natural principle. What you put into it, you get out of it. You gotta put new inputs in.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the inputs are who you surround yourself around, right? So if you have an emotionally detached friend that's an asshole to his kids and wife.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Right? Is that perpetuating you doing the same thing in your own home? And the answer is yes. That will help you be the opposite of what you're choosing. What was the term that he used, Ryan? Emotionally unavailable? Is that what he said?

• 44:02Speaker 00

  Uh, he said a dad who was present physically, but checked out emotionally.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Checked out emotionally. So I'd get really, be careful with these general terms. Right? Like, that's not a goal. Right? And I, let me, let me just beat it up, right? I need to be more emotionally connected.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  What do you mean? What does that mean? And then most importantly, why? It is always so much more effective to get present to your actions of how they provide value. So what, what are you addressing? What's the issue? And maybe the issue, or maybe what your kids need? Maybe it's actually not a more emotionally mature dad or emotionally. Maybe they actually need more discipline right now. Who knows? But whatever it is, identify what the gap is and what you're bringing to the table. And so I'm, I want to give you an idea and I call it like assertive feedback. But pulse check with your family. What, what are the big things? Ask your kid. In fact, I am, I'm committing right now on this podcast.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  I'm going to do this with my daughters this week. So I'm going to go to them and say, hey, what are your biggest stresses right now? What are your biggest struggles, things that you're worried about? Stresses in life and hopefully they'll share those with me and they will. And then I'm going to say, in what way am I making those things more difficult for you right now?

• 45:23Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  And they might be like, well, you get easily mad at us. Okay, got it. Right? And then I'm going to walk away with a list of things that I'm going to commit to them that I'm going to do better. And it might be being more emotionally available or connected. But it also might be something else. But regardless, guess what it's going to be? Something that benefits them. So make sure that whatever it is that you're focusing on, that you're addressing something. And that you're not, because you might even be latched onto this, you might be so paranoid about not being your dad, that the pendulum might even swing too far. And you're just, and your focus is what? I don't want to be like my dad. Well, screw that. Let go of that thought process.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  How about you just be you? And be the best dad that you can be, agnostic of whoever your father was. That's a better focus. So focus on who you're serving. Don't worry about trying not to be someone. Because that's, there's a sense of holding your past and dragging it into your present when we operate that way. Let go of it. And who, what's the man that you need to be today for your family? And focus there.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  And where do those men spend time? And how can you become friends with them? And you have to be deliberate about that. You know, there's another thing, I really like that, what you said about that, Kip. And there's another thing I was thinking as you were addressing that.

• 46:49Speaker 00

  If your goal is to not be like your dad, that can mean a lot of different things. So let's say your dad was a drunk. If you're a drug addict, then you're not like your dad. Does that make it any better? No. So I think you need to get really clear if you start getting into this thing of like, well, I don't want to be like him. Yeah, there's a lot of ways not to be like him that could actually make you maybe even worse than he was. So I like what you said there. That makes a lot of sense. I also pulled up a book, I was, I was pulling up my audible because I just, I just started reading this or listening to it. Feeling is the Secret by Neville Goddard. It's actually a really good book about why feeling and intuition is really powerful

• 47:32Speaker 00

  and why we start, why we should start tapping more into the feelings that we're experiencing, not to control us, but the decisions that we've make, we make are often simply supporting the feelings that we already have. So if you want to change the outcome, change the way you feel about things. If you have an addiction. Instead of saying, well, I'm just gonna stop and that's, I'm just gonna toughen my way through it. Start changing your identity, the way you feel about yourself. And once you start feeling differently about yourself, you will naturally start making different decisions. If you tell yourself a loser, you'll make loser decisions. If you tell yourself you're a winner and you actually believe and feel it, you're gonna start doing the things that winners do.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, self fulfilling prophecy, right? You'll look for evidence to be right. I've always believed that we would rather be right than happy. And I, and I think if we self reflect, you'll find yourself making decisions in the space of being right. More than happy. It's crazy and it's rooted in that ego. Yeah.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  All right, um, this one's kind of interesting. I don't, I don't know that I could even answer this question, but I, I can give some insight. So this is from Cole Hartman. He says, I've gotten more serious about my faith lately and I started to dig into stuff outside of the standard canon. So Enoch, I don't know these books. I've heard of Enoch, but Enoch Jubilees and some of the apocryphal, I don't even know how to say that word. Apocryphal writings, uh, my pastor basically waved it off. He says, do you think there's any real value in those texts and more, or am I chasing rabbit holes? I, I'm not gonna answer this question specifically because I don't have enough information to do that.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  But what I will say is this, I don't think that the Catholic or Christian canon has the market on truth. I don't.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  I think there is truth to be found everywhere. And I think there's evil to be found everywhere as well. So is there truth and information outside of the canon, the Christian canon, that will help us live better lives? Uh, yeah. I mean, just, just go work out, like finding a workout program is gonna help you live a better life. But you won't find a workout program in the, in the, in the Bible as far as I know.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  So. Okay, so on one hand, yes, I say, okay, there's, there's other value in other places. You just need to be able to discern. That's the most important thing, to be able to discern. And in your case, praying, connecting with God, having that relationship, knowing the Bible well, so you can actually compare and contrast and gain insight, divine inspiration, to help you know what is true and what isn't. Now, I will also say that there are things sometimes that are so ridiculous, so nonsensical, that it's just not worth investing any time, energy, or attention into. And I'm not saying what you're asking about is necessarily that. This is where I'm gonna say, I don't know.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  Talk with somebody more qualified in that. But what I would say, the keys to this are, truth can be found in, in many different places. You have to be able to exercise discernment. And there are some things so silly and comical that just don't warrant your time and attention. And I don't know how this falls into that, if I'm being truthful about it.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, the only thing I'd add to your list there, Ryan, is be self-aware of why you're doing it. That's it, like, know yourself. So, why? Why are you drawn to be like, oh, man, there's these other things? Why? Because you're trying to prove, like, what are you, what are you looking for and why? Is it out of curiosity? Is it validating some, an opinion? And this is where people get sideways, right? Because they'll grab for straws, because they've already have a conclusion and opinion about something, and they're looking for evidence that they're right. That, and that might lead you somewhere else that you don't want, right? Like, deep down, you might be like, Christians are wrong. And so now you're just, guess what resources you'll find? You'll find resources to validate the fact that you're correct.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Mark my word, guaranteed. So, why?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Why are you searching? What is it that you're looking for? And is it just curiosity and openness? I'm like, all about it, right? Yeah, a lot of people don't realize this. I mean, and I'm a disruptor in this space, right? I used to teach gospel doctrine for, actually, for a few years. And I learned so much about the Torah that it was fascinating to me. Fascinating. And, and I find massive evidence. Stoicism, massive evidence. You know what I mean? Buddha, there's, there's awesome stuff, right? Like, my, my opinion, the gospel is truth. Wherever it is. That's what the gospel is.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  And just because someone a long time ago identified what books make it into the Bible and threw away the other books that didn't, doesn't warrant, you know what I mean? What is true and what's not for me, right? And so I'm on a quest of just finding truth wherever I can find it.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  I think it's interesting. I was just pulling this up because I don't know. And I like, I'm curious about things and AI is amazing for this. I, I just typed this in. When was the gospel canonized? And it said, there's no single data, data point for this, or date for this, rather, it says, since canonization was a gradual process, rather than a formal one-time decision. But it did say there were notable events around 130 to 180 AD. The four gospels, so that'd be Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were being treated as a collection. Um, it says also, one of the most cited milestones is Athanasius, maybe? Easter letter of 376 AD, which lists the 27 New Testament books, exactly as we have them today, the first known list to do so.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  And then there was other councils, 393 AD, 397, 419, where they actually affirmed those 27 books of the New Testament. So. It's kind of interesting, and my question, I've always kind of wondered like, why those books and not those books? What about those books and not those books? Was it, it was probably very culturally related, I imagine. Like, what is accepted culturally? What is the current predominant religion? Who's in power? Who's the Roman emperor at the time? I mean, there's, what's acceptable, what isn't? I mean, there's so much.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  There's so many human variables, right, that come into play. Like, I even, I even love this, and I don't know if this is true, I haven't validated this, but I read something or heard something like a couple of weeks ago around the word commandment, for instance. And that the original word in Hebrew, that was translated to commandment, is more appropriately translated to instruction. That's profound to me, right? Like, part of me is like, what? Like, that's a big difference in my mind, right? Let me give you these 10 instructions versus commandments. Why? What human decided that commandment was more appropriate? Did

• 54:54Speaker 01

  that person, was they trying to get people to follow out of compliance more than they were worried about growth? Right? Like, those are the things that come into play, and then we have a tendency to put it in a box and go, that's what it is. Well, not really. I mean, the word was kind of something else, right?

• 55:13Speaker 00

  See, this is how, this is how it falters, Kip. It's like, Kip goes from commandment to instruction, next it's gonna be guideline. So he's like, ah, you can steal, suggestion, you can steal, I can covet my neighbor's things, like, it's okay, it's more of a guideline than anything else.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  And this is where I said, know yourself, because if you're looking to validate doing something wrong, guess what I'll find? I'll find a word that replaces commandment with suggestion.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  And I will find evidence that I'm right.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah. Good call. All right. Last one. We gotta run this one pretty quick. I get a time stop here. So, but we're going to talk about hunting, of course, and I'm not going to go without answering this question. This comes from Jesse Lindquist. He says, first archery elk season this fall. He says, he's equally parts fired up and terrified. I'm going to screw it up in front of my buddy who's been doing this for 15 years. Beyond the gear and the practice, what's the mental place I should be focused on going in? Well, number one, you are probably going to screw it up. Probably what's going to happen. You're probably gonna spook an elk, a bull or a cow. I don't know what you're going for, but you're gonna spook, spook an elk out of there. You're gonna take one step too far or trip and fall right before you get a shot.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  Or you're not gonna like aim your bow for whatever reason, or you're not even gonna put an arrow in because you forget. Like, these are all things I've done, by the way. So, and by the way, all things that your buddy who's been doing it for 15 years has done as well. Trust me. And again, to go back to jujitsu, you know, Kip, and you know this being, being in the game for nearly two decades at this point is they're gonna bust your balls. Let's be honest. Like, if you do something dumb, they're definitely gonna bust your balls. Because their dad or grandpa did the same thing to them. But you know what? They don't care. It makes a great hunting story. It makes for a memorable experience.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  It makes for a pin on the timeline of development in this skill that you're trying to develop. It's just, it's fun. Enjoy it. I would say lighten up. Know you're gonna mess it up. Lower your expectations of your performance. I know why you're going into the woods. You want to kill an animal, of course. Just let the expectation go away. Kip, you and I have a good friend, Rick, who, he is a killer. And I think a big part of the reason that he's a killer is because he doesn't care.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Doesn't care. Yeah.

• 57:44Speaker 00

  He just wants to go, he cares enough that he wants to practice and make good shots and do it right. He cares enough that way. But he doesn't really attach his, his sense of worth or the, the fun of the hunt to the outcome. He's the same whether he shoots an animal or not. And, and there's something to be said for that. And I think that's a good place to get to.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  And when we're wrapped up about how we're looking, you're going to be closed off to learning. So just let it go and just be hungry and curious and you'll learn way more. But if you're so concerned about whatever people are thinking of whether you're messing up, guess what? That's not a state of learning. So let go of that and just be open and just say, I suck. And then just soak in as much information from everybody as possible.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  And I would say the best way to do that, it sounds so dominant elementary, but we don't do it. Just ask questions. If your buddy says something and you're like, and you're thinking, I don't know what that means, what he's trying to tell me or what he's saying. Just say, dude, I'm sorry. I don't, you sound like you're speaking ancient Greek or Hebrew to me right now or something. So can you help me understand what that means? Like just ask a question, make it funny, make it light, laugh at yourself and just enjoy the experience, knowing that, I don't want to say you're not going to be successful, but archery elk hunting is no joke.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  It is no joke. So go in, have fun, enjoy the experience. Know you're going to get better and laugh at yourself. Life is good and you're up in the mountains chasing around incredible animals to put food on your family's table. That's awesome. Just that alone is awesome.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Totally. Love it.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  All right, brother. Well, I got a jet. Guys, great questions. I think we've got another four, maybe five questions here that we'll get to next week, but appreciate those. Let us know on the wholesome segment, wholesome or no. And if you thought we were wrong, just keep it to yourself. No, I'm just kidding. You can share, you can, you can share your insights. If you thought I was wrong or off or whatever, people, I, dude, I've had a couple crazy posts on Instagram go viral the last couple of days, which has been hilarious.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  Triggering people.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm not above poking the bear a little bit, so.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's funny.

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I posted something about Elon Musk and what trillionaire means and what it doesn't mean. And oh my goodness, liked over a hundred thousand times. It's been viewed on multiple platforms over, over 10 million times at this point. And then I made another post about, do dads take their kid, their daughter into the men's restroom? Or do they take them into the women's restroom? And I thought we could have a civil rational discussion about it. Nope, that's not happening. So it's been pretty interesting to say the least.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  But the point I'm making is that I'm sure whether or not you agree, you'll definitely want to fight with us, which is fine. I don't mind that. I really don't. In fact, I like it. So make sure to follow me on, on the social media channels and then also YouTube, really growing YouTube, new podcast studio. It looks decent right now, but I'm changing some things, tweaking some things. It's going to look really nice when it's all done. So make sure to follow us on YouTube. And last thing, we did talk about brotherhood a little bit. If you're looking for that deliberate intentional brotherhood of accountability and support, look at the Iron Council, orderofman.com/ironcouncil. Anything else, Kip?

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  No, sir.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  Where do they find you? Because you're doing a lot of leadership principle stuff. Where do they find you and connect with you?

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  I mean, social media, at Kip Sorenson, K I P P S O R E N S E N. And then leadership stuff, just go lead stronger is website.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  Excellent.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  All right, guys. Have a great rest of your week. Stay tuned. We'll be back on Friday. Until then, go out there, take action and become a man you are meant to be.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.