Hope is What Makes America Great, Living 'The Man in the Arena', and Calling Out Your Wife's Secrets | ASK ME ANYTHING

In this week's Ask Me Anything, Ryan Michler and Kipp Sorensen kick things off by reflecting on the Fourth of July and discussing why hope, personal agency, and responsibility are at the heart of what makes America unique. They then answer listener questions on fatherhood without a positive role model, rebuilding trust after discovering a spouse's hidden debt, choosing a simple life over chasing an empire, and whether to confess a long-hidden pornography addiction. Throughout the episode, they explore integrity, personal responsibility, and what it truly means to live as "the man in the arena"—making difficult choices that lead to lasting character and stronger relationships. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Episode Introduction 01:40 - Hope Is What Makes America Great 13:31 - Fatherhood Without a Blueprint 22:32 - Your Wife's Secret Credit Card: Rebuilding Trust 34:09 - Is It Wrong to Want a Quiet Life? 39:02 - Should You Confess a Hidden Porn Addiction? 51:07 - Final Thoughts & Iron Council Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I would trade the millions of followers that I have that I that we've built over 11 years of doing this. And I remember 11 years ago, like, I want to have a big following. I would trade every single one of those followers to have a ranch in Montana and three or four people close to me, have a cigar, sit by the fire in the evening, you know, a couple nights a week, going to like, help neighbors if they needed me to help them put up a barn or hunt a grizzly that was attacking their cattle. I would trade all of, everybody listening, I would trade all of you for that. And I say that with the utmost respect that I have for you guys. I would. I would trade it in a heartbeat.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  Kip, what's up, man? Good to see you on the follow-up of our 4th of July weekend. I hope you had a good one.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was great. Yeah, of course, it was great. Right? We spent time with our families, celebrated 250 years of this amazing country that we live in. I mean, come on, you can't have that weekend and be moaning and complaining about anything, or at least you shouldn't, in my opinion.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, oh, you can. Just look at what's going on on social media. You definitely can. I guess, I guess that's covered under your First Amendment rights. That's what's always funny to me, is people complaining, bitching, moaning, like, we live under a king and a tyrant. I'm like, if you lived under a king and a tyrant, you would not be able to say, I live under a king and a tyrant. These people are just so on the nose at this point. It's comical if it weren't so pathetic, but it is what it is.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Yep. Yep. Yep. Absolutely.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Well, man, let's jump into our wholesome segment. Obviously, I hope it's obvious for anybody who's listening on the, on the back of the 4th of July weekend. I mean, wholesome, I've just got to say that we live in the greatest country ever, ever, in the history of humankind. And I know we have our problems. I know we have our struggles. I know we have our divisiveness. I know people love Trump and hate Trump, and I know you hate your politicians or you love them. And there's bickering and bantering and everything else, but man, how could you even possibly deny, based on the quality of living, the standard of living, the relative freedoms, I say relative deliberately,

• 2:21Speaker 00

  that we enjoy, the prosperity, the abundance, the opportunity, the freedom, that you couldn't say that this is the best nation to ever exist? It's always weird when people say it isn't. Like, who's the best? Point to the best then. But it's, uh, it's pretty crazy. But I'm feeling very fortunate to hit the lottery and have been born to a good mother and been raised in this amazing country.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Same, same. I mean, of course, you can't help but look at that, or at least for me, when I, when I hear what you just said, Ryan, I'm like, but what is it, right? Like, what is it? I mean, oh, it's America. Okay, great. Yeah. But what were the ingredients that makes it so amazing? And I think it's important for us to always know what the ingredients are so we can help perpetuate it. Because sometimes we might find ourselves in America going, man, this is so great, but yet the way we're, we're showing up is not aligned with its greatness.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Right? And America is only as great as its citizens continuing what our forefathers created, right? And we could easily destroy it. And, and so I, I think it's important for us to understand what, what is it specifically? And so if you don't mind me asking, what is that for you? Like what, when you think, yeah, go ahead.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Oh, it's, it's easy. So I wrote, I actually wrote this down. I'm glad you brought it up. And we don't compare notes before we jump on the podcast, so it's interesting you'd ask this. The first thing I wrote down was opportunity. But, but then as you were talking, I'm like, wait, no, it's not opportunity. There's one word that encapsulates what we do as a country better than any other country or people on the planet that ever have. It's, it's this word. It's hope.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  That's it. Because when a person loses hope, they lose everything else. If your future is bleak, and there's nothing exciting about your future, and there's nothing optimistic, or positive, or opportunistic, then you're dead. You might, your brain dead, your soul dead. You might as well just give up. But I think what America does better than any nation that has ever existed on the planet is offers hope. Look, we can debate where we need to do better, what we need to do better, where we have faltered, sure. But you can't argue with me. There's nothing you could say to me, or show me, that would tell me that there's any other group of people that have

• 5:08Speaker 00

  congregated and given more hope to people than this nation. Hope is the word for me.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it. And I, I would add, it's hope on the back of agency. So it's not hope in my dictator or my king, making this future great for me. It is hope in me, and the fact that I can be self determined, and have a say in the outcome. So it's hope built on agency and opportunity. Because I think sometimes we might look at hope as like, well, I hope these other people will do this. It's not that. It's hope that I can do something about it. And, and that is why the entrepreneurial spirit in America is stronger here than I think anywhere else in the world.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  And it's because it's self determined. And, and that's what makes America so great.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm glad that you said, I hope people do this for me. Because, I mean, clearly, that's what I was referencing, right? But when you get on social media, people, people, I don't understand, Kip, help me understand this. Why do people play dumb on social media? Like, these people that I talk with, let me just give you a ratio. For every post I make, I get, let's say, 70 to 80% positive, 20 to 30% negative. And these people who are negative.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  Why are they playing retarded? I don't understand. I don't understand why they're playing as if they're incapable of discernment. Why they, why when I make a post, they're like, "Well, actually, this thing exists." I'm like, "I know, I know there's exceptions. Come on." Like, you're smart. You don't, you, why do we play stupid? I don't understand it, man. I cannot fathom why we play deliberately dense is what I call it.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, and it's, someone made a, made a comment to a post I made last week and it was like, "Yeah, but..." And I, and I replied to him, I'm like, "Of course." I'm like, "Of course there's variables and nuances and, and that there's no absolute truth of anything." It would be great if life was so simple, but it's not. So like, "Thanks for leaving the comment." Right? It's like, "Duh, of course." But I, I think it's just, I don't, I think you're giving him too much credit. I don't think they're thinking about it. I, I think they're just like, "Oh, well, he, there's these other things he should consider." I think they're just oblivious and they think they're actually providing value. Otherwise, I don't think they would do it.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Well, no, I, I think you're right. I think they're trying to be smart.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  But they already are smart. That's the thing that they don't get. Like, you're already intelligent. You already have wisdom. You already have the, the ability to discern. You already have the ability to think of exceptions, to think critically about situations. Like, when I see these people, I'm like, "Dude, you just, you, you literally just lowered your IQ on purpose."

• 8:22Speaker 01

  For everyone to read.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  Put your words in there. I, like, give good commentary. I don't understand it. But that said, you said something interesting about this, this idea of hope in, in other people versus hope that I can do it myself. Agency, I think is the term you use.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  And we actually talked about this in the Iron Council on Friday. So it was the eve of 4th of July and you were on that call. I'm not sure what you hosted on your call, but I talked about the inextricable connection between rights and responsibilities.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  But we quite literally have legions of young people growing up, boys and girls growing up, who think that they're just entitled to certain rights without the associated responsibility. And as Jefferson said, and I'll butcher this, he said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." And maybe it's not literal blood, as in bloodshed, I hope it doesn't come to that point. But what I take that quote to mean is that we, if we want to maintain and preserve our rights, have responsibilities, that's the bloodshed, sacrifice, in other words, literal

• 9:43Speaker 00

  and figurative, associated with the rights that we enjoy. And if we continue to raise a nation of young kids, young adults, who don't understand that with the rights comes equal or greater responsibility, then it's just a matter of time before we collapse.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I think it's an important note, like anyone listening, you're thinking about your kids, "Oh yeah, I need to make sure my kids know that." Well, how do they know that? Today. And the way you do it today is, "Oh, son, that benefit that you have, there's a price for it. Pay the price. Oh, you uncomfortable circumstance, I'm gonna let you deal with it. Stop coddling your kids." Like, this is literally where it starts. It starts in our homes, and it starts how we're raising our children.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. On a more interesting and fun note, wholesome, Kip, I don't know if you saw the video of the F-35 fighter jet hovering over the Potomac River, the same river that George Washington crossed and murdered, quite literally, righteously-

• 10:51Speaker 01

  On Christmas Eve.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  -his enemy on Christmas Eve. And now we have, 250 years later, an F-35 fucking floating over the Potomac River.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Are you kidding me? Wholesome, 100% wholesome. We are the best fighting force the world has ever known. And if that F-35 floating over the Potomac River and then taking off doesn't illustrate that, you're brain dead. There's no other way to put that.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Oh, so rad. I watched an F-35 at an airshow one time do something similar. And then it floated down in a 360-degree spin as it floated down. And then it stopped, righted itself, and took off.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Tough.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Come on. Come on. It was amazing. And, and there's some cool stuff in Maverick, which is Top Gun 2 Maverick, where I think the Russian, it's the Russians have this incredible, is it the Russians? Yeah. Have this incredible, you know, fi- fifth generation fighter and does some really cool stuff. I'm like, we can actually do that. That's not fake. We can do those things with a plane. It's crazy. And then don't get me started on the UAPs, the unidentified aerial phenomenon is what we're supposed to call it now.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 12:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. You can't call, it's not a UFO anymore. It's a UAP, unidentified aerial phenomenon. So.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  That's phenomenon.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. All right, brother. Let's get to some questions. We know it's wholesome. We know it's not. And if you don't, you're in the wrong place. Here we go.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, Grant Ellison. My dad passed six months ago and I never got the "you're a man" talk from him. He just died with a lot left unsaid. How do I step into that role for my own kids without being a blueprint of him?

• 12:59Speaker 00

  That's awesome, actually, because now you have a clean slate that you can decide what it looks like. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of men come into fatherhood with, with a, with a dogma associated, and the odds of you repeating the same process of your, of your father are pretty great. But what you can do is create an entirely new system, simply because you choose to. So a couple of really important speeches that come to mind, well, one's a speech, one's a poem, is Man in the Arena by Theodore Roosevelt. That's one you should definitely read and embrace.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  And the other is If by Roger Kipling, which is obviously a poem, not a speech. And you should, you should read that. And you should base your entire

• 13:54Speaker 00

  structure of fatherhood around those two pieces. Just convinced, if you just structured your entire process of fathering, both your boys and your girls, around those two pieces, and you actually live those ideals, and you embrace those ideals, and you instill them in your children, that's, that's your daddy now. Like, that's, that's what it should be. And then you can use that for the fodder to be able to go lead your family the way that clearly, Grant, you have a desire to do. But what's cool is you get to create your own religion, for lack of a better term. Yeah. You get to create it. So what's important to you? What, what is valuable to you? What is it that you want to instill in your children?

• 14:39Speaker 00

  And I want to hear what you have to say, Kip. And while you're doing that, I'm actually going to pull up something that I did for my battle team, and I just did this over the weekend. So I don't have it memorized quite yet, but I would love to hear what you have to say about it.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, one thought I I agree with you. I think those how awesome it is that you get to create it. And I think it's more important that way. Anyway, right? It needs to be yours, your version. So that way you ensure it's aligned with what's best for for your family. And for your kids and for yourself. The one thing that I'd like to call out that you mentioned that, you know, without a blueprint from him. Well, you have a blueprint from him. Based based upon how he raised you. Potentially. And yeah, and that blueprint, whether you like it or not, is going to show up constantly. Right? And and I think it's important to know that, that you're going to have some default ways of parenting.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  That you're going to catch yourself and go, oh, where did that come from? And you're going to be like, oh, man, that smells a lot like dad. That resembles a lot like mom. And and it's now your choice to be self aware, to catch those, to be alert of them. And then to inspect them and say.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Is that what I want to do? Is that what's best? And if it's not moved to a different. Space, right? And implement something different. But but I I don't know, Ryan, I hear sometimes like people talk about this around positive thoughts. Right? It's like, oh, negative thinking is so bad, right? And it's like, I don't think you get away from some of this. The blueprint's there. It's almost like you're going to be building a house. You may have this new, brand new blueprint. And for whatever reason, life is going to throw you the old blueprint on the table. And if you're not paying attention, you might start building a different house. And you have to pause and go, wait, wait a second, is this the right blueprint? And you're like, ah, this is that old one. And then you have to put it back where it belongs.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  And focus on what you're creating and just realize that you have to be aware of it. And if you're not, you're going to find yourself doing a default. That may not been intentionally chosen by you.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Well, look, Kip, here's how I choose to look at it, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. You and me are computers. We are supercomputers. We just happen to be constructed of biological matter, whereas a computer is silver and plastic and gold and other metals to make the computer. We're the same. We are the same. It's all the same makeup. And the reason I say that is because if I go in and I create, we're working on an app for the Iron Council right now. And Johnny Loretta, a good friend of mine, he's actually building it out and has done a beautiful

• 17:34Speaker 00

  job for the first iteration. And it does exactly what it's programmed to do. It doesn't deviate.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  And so when you're pounding away on your keyboard, you're like, stupid computer is not doing. It's not computer error, it's user error. You're doing something wrong. The computer doesn't, is not sentient. It doesn't wake up when you hit the enter button. And it's like, I think I'll fuck with Kip today. It wakes up and it follows the code verbatim. Now, there's some glitches and some things that can happen, but outside of that, it follows the code verbatim. Guess what? You're the same, Kip. You're following the code verbatim. I'm following the code verbatim. And guess who was the programmer of the code? First, God. And then it got corrupted by who?

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Your dad.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Our parents.

• 18:30Speaker 00

  Your mom, your friends, the people on Instagram that you follow. All of it got corrupted. And you rewrote the code with faulty formulas. So if you want to do better, if you want better outcome, rewrite the code with good formulas. And if you do that, then the system is going to follow the system. That's how I look at it. Like, we are a byproduct of the environment that we're in, and we start rewriting code based on what we believe to be true. I remember years ago,

• 19:06Speaker 00

  This was early in my financial planning practice and I used to listen to a not well-known person at the time because he owned a stake and he was a high-level executive in the financial planning practice that I started with. And his name, you guys might recognize it, was Ed Mylett. This was 15 years ago and I would take his CDs and I'd put it in my CD player in my truck. And as I was driving from my office or from my house to appointments, I would listen to Ed Mylett talk about sales scripts for financial planning, well before he was the motivational influencer

• 19:45Speaker 00

  that he is now. And I remember getting home one day and I was talking with my then-wife at the time and she said, "You sound like Ed Mylett." And we chuckled about it, we laughed about it, but also, duh, that's the programming. So of course I'm gonna sound like him. If I spend more time around you, I'm gonna sound like you. If I was born in America, I'm gonna have an accent, depending on what region of America I was born, based on the region. If I'm born in Australia, I'm gonna sound like an Australian because that's the programming and people just don't understand this to the degree they should. If they did, they'd be a lot more aware of the inputs.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  They really would.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, totally. You're gonna share something else?

• 20:35Speaker 00

  Uh, what was I gonna share?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Something about your battle team. You're gonna, you're, you shared with your battle team, you're looking it up.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  Uh, just real quick, I'm gonna go through it. So I put together this over the weekend and I was like, okay, so our battle team name is Invictus. And I'm like, what are some, what are some virtues that we all espouse? And I pass this around to the guys because this is coding. This is coding. That's all this is. So Invictus now is an acronym. So I is integrity, N is nobility, V is vigilance, I, second I, is intentionality, C is courage, T is temperance, U is unshakable, and S is sovereignty. And those are the virtues that all of us agreed that we're going to filter our decisions through. That's the coding.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  And I feel like if we embrace that coding, we'll all become better men in whatever capacity we show up as.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Love it. Okay.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  All right. What's next?

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Marcus, Marcus Fielding, Ryan, I found out my wife has a secret credit card and about 9,000 in debt that she hid from me for two years. I'm angry, but I also know I haven't exactly made myself easy to be honest with. It's great that he realizes that. How do you rebuild financial trust without turning into an integrator? Maybe first get rid of that credit card that you have that she doesn't know about.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Well, that's exactly, that's actually, so when you look at Invictus, right? The first one is integrity. Like, here's one I hear a lot. Hey, um, and I, and I actually do this with guys and they don't like it, but it's important. So guys will reach out and they'll say, hey, uh, my wife's gotten a little out of shape and a little soft and around the midsection. You know, she's had babies and she's like a little, little soft and like, I'm not as attracted to her anymore. I'm like, send me a picture of you, bro. Like get in your boxers, send me a picture. And they're like, what, what do you mean? What was left to do? No, that's, that's the exercise. You want my help? Send me a picture.

• 22:48Speaker 00

  So they sent me these pictures. And I just write, dude, come on.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:56Speaker 00

  And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, look at you. Look at you. And you're complaining about your wife getting a little soft around the midsection? Now, two things can exist at once. She should take care of herself. That has nothing to do with you. Like you don't need to take care of her. She needs to take care of herself. And also lead from the front, man. Like I, here's, here's an example. I could go to the airport

• 23:29Speaker 00

  and I could see a woman, let's say, sitting in the terminal. And then I could see five guys walking towards her. And I can tell you with 85 to 90% certainty, which one is her husband?

• 23:46Speaker 00

  Just based on body type alone.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Based on her, her body type, like.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  Hers and his.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  His, yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Like if she's fit and attractive and wearing nice clothes and takes care of herself, then I'm gonna see the fit dude who takes care of himself. He's wearing athletic leisure and he carries himself. Well, I'm like, yeah, that's, he's with her. And then I could see another woman who's 70 pounds overweight and she's wearing flannel or flame pajamas and it says juicy on her ass. And then I see a slob who's 80 pounds overweight and he's got gym shorts that hang down to his calves and his socks are kind of like gray. They're not white and his hair is all disheveled. I'm like, yeah, he's with her.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  Like, I already know.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  And so what, I'm not beating up on Marcus too much here. This is kind of like a tangent, but it's actually a little bit of a, a, a quates. It's like, okay, yeah, she probably has a secret credit card. Okay. Well, what do you have? What are your secrets? Do you, do you watch porn? When she doesn't know?

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Do you make expenses or, or buy things that, that she's not aware of that you guys didn't discuss?

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Or that she disagrees with? Yeah.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. Like, are you? Are you drinking when, when she's asked you not to and you're trying to hide it? I did that.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  And so I'm not saying that she's without faults because a lot of guys will interpret this as like, well, you're just being a beta or a cuck or a simp. No, I'm not. I'm telling you to take responsibility fully so that when you go approach her, you can do it with an integrity. And you could say, hey babe, look, I found out you've got a credit card.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  I'm frustrated about that. I tried not to keep secrets from you. I try to be honest and forthright and in integrity with the way that we communicate. And what are we gonna do about it? Not what are you gonna do about, what are we gonna do about it? Because you already asked her to marry you. So now you're we, not I or her. So what are we gonna do about it? What habits are you gonna change to get this paid off? What side business are you gonna generate in order to pay off this debt? How are we going to ensure that this doesn't continue? What are you willing to do to make sure that you're being fair and honest with me? Because I'm being fair and honest with you. But you can't go look her in the eye and tell

• 26:27Speaker 00

  her not to have secrets if you have secrets. So that's the first order of business. What do you think, Kip?

• 26:35Speaker 01

  I totally agree. I love it. It's a really good idea. Obviously, gives you some credibility and allows you to have that conversation. I mean, you and I know, right? If you had secrets and you tried to have that conversation, it's gonna fall on deaf ears and she's gonna be like, yeah, but how about this? And how about this other thing that you're doing? And you guys aren't even aligned around the dishonesty part, right? So I totally agree with it. The only, the other thing that came to mind as you were responding is, I would ask her the why. Like, not just like, let's fix this, but like, why do you, why do you feel like

• 27:16Speaker 01

  you need to? What's the emotional state? What is it that, why aren't you using our checking account? Why are you using this credit card? Do you not feel like you have control? Do you feel like, I want to agree? Or, get to the root cause. And the root cause isn't, she has a credit card, $9,000, she's being dishonest. There's a little bit more to it. There's a reason for it. And I would seek to understand that, so that way you can address it more effectively.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  I used to advocate, and I still do advocate for this, by the way, this idea of the money, Monday money meeting is what I called it. Do you remember me talking about this?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. It's been a while.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, because I'm not married anymore. So I don't have to have those meetings. I mean, I reconcile my accounts, but I don't have those meetings anymore.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  You don't talk to yourself about your Monday morning?

• 28:18Speaker 00

  I mean, I talked to myself about a lot of stuff, but I don't think it's one of them.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  So a money Monday meeting is a meeting with your wife, and I don't care if it's Monday or Sunday or Thursday, it doesn't matter when. But you guys are going to get, you're going to sit down and you're going to talk about assets, liabilities, cash flow, upcoming expenditures, upcoming windfalls, you know, maybe you gained a $10,000 inheritance you didn't know about, or maybe you hit the scratch offs and you won a thousand bucks or whatever. I don't know, whatever. But you talk about all things money related. So I used to do this and my ex-wife dreaded it. And I'm like, what's the problem? Why do you dread it? Like, it's good. We can talk about it. It's more. And then I started to do an inventory and I was like, oh, you dread it not because it's money, but because I'm a dick about it.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  Like, it's not, it's not the money. And guys will say that. They'll be like, my wife doesn't like talking about money. It's like, no, she doesn't like talking to you about money.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  And that was me. And I would question her and I'd like turn a light on her and like interrogate. What was this expenditure for $5.73 on Thursday at 2:37 PM? It's like, good God, man, like chill. And I wish I would have.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  And I don't know if Marcus is doing this, but he did say that he hasn't been the easiest to talk with about these things. That wasn't me who said it. That was him who said that. So we, this is what we, this is what's really important to know. You will train your wife and your children and everybody in your life.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  To treat you a certain way based on the responses. So I hear a lot of guys who complain, well, my wife doesn't talk to me. Okay, let's break this down. Let's figure this out. Why is that the case? Well, come to find out, every time she tries to talk to you about anything meaningful, you blow a gasket and flip out on her. So you just trained her to sit down, to shut up, and to just be a good wife.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Instead of actually share it with you. Well, my, my kids never talk to me about their girlfriends or their boyfriends. Okay, let's review that. When's the last time they did? Oh, it was like two weeks ago. Okay, and what did you do? It's like, I teased them a little bit about it. Yeah, right. So, so why would they come talk to you about it?

• 30:55Speaker 00

  The, the, the people in your life are just mirroring your energy. So if your kids won't open up to you, it's because you're not somebody they're comfortable opening up to. It has less to do with them and more to do with you. If your wife has a secret credit card, it's because she doesn't feel safe being honest with you. Now, that doesn't excuse her behavior. I'm not saying she should do that, or that it's acceptable. It isn't, because she's a big girl too, with big girl pants. Like, she needs to be a woman. But also, we can't control that. What we can do is control ourselves and allow our behavior and our actions to influence the people in our lives.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  And you have more influence, more power than we often give ourselves credit for.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Wow. And there's growth in the latter, right? There's no growth in the other one, right? It's like, well, she's did something wrong. Okay, awesome. Good luck growing from that. But it's not until you say, well, what is it, right? What's, what's within my realm of control? How am I showing up? How am I contributing to the interaction? That's something you can actually, um, control, right? And grow from.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  It is, but I think part of the problem is we're just so inundated with social media messaging that is contrary, that, that says that every time, let, let's take this example. So Marcus's wife has a $9,000 credit card.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  And you and I are both advocating for him, talking with her openly about it and asking, what can I do to make sure she feels comfortable being honest with me about it? But there's 30% of the people on social media and 30% of the commentary that you'll receive that will tell you that if you do that, oh, well, it's not your fault, bro. It's her fault. Beta cuck simp. And it's like, dude, in fact, it's quite the opposite. I'm actually taking responsibility for my own part. I'm not excusing her. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm not even saying it's acceptable or tolerable. But I'm saying own what's within your purview, which is, hey, maybe I can approach this differently,

• 33:05Speaker 00

  which would cause her to open up and we can actually have an honest, real, genuine discussion about it.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Totally, totally. All right. Owen Presley, is it wrong to just want a normal, quiet life? Everything in the men's space right now feels obsessed with building empires. I could see that.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I could see that. Yeah.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  Oh, is that it? That's the extent of it?

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, yeah. Uh, I'm trying to find a question.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  No, it's fine.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Wrong with having a quiet life.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Is it wrong? No, it's not wrong. It's not wrong at all. I think this comes with a little bit of gray hair and some decades under your belt. You know, like you, you see the Gary V's of the world and all these other hard chargers. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, by the way. Like, if you want to go out and build an empire, build your empire. Um, I spent some time with a really good mutual friend of ours, uh, about a month, month and a half ago, Kip Frank Foreman, mutual friend, I'm the Iron Council.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  And he spent decades working for, and he'll correct me because I'm, can I be wrong? But working for, I believe it's for LA County with their emergency services department. And he was head, if I remember correctly, over the entire emergency services of LA County or Southern, uh, Southern California or some, something, some like really high position. And he did a great job. And then when he left, everything went to shit in LA, obviously. Um, but.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  He lives on a ranch in Montana. He's got, he's got dozens and dozens of acres. He's got a handful of horses. He's got a beautiful property. He's got a, a, a nice but modest home. He's got a couple of dogs that, you know, help him. He's out there putting up fence. And he talked to me about a couple of stories about warding off grizzly bears in Montana. And he's got sheep and he's, he's got cattle. I would argue that he's not building an empire as much as he's living his best life, man. Like he's hap, he's busy, he's busier than he's ever been.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  And he, and he looks tired. Like I see him and like, you look tired. He's like, nah dude, I'm good. I'm good. And he's out there just working every day. He's probably working harder in quote unquote retirement than when he was in LA. And I'm envious of that, if I'm being honest. I, I, I messaged him just the other day and I said, hey man, you know, my youngest is 10. Within the 10, next 10 years, I'm going to have a ranch in Montana. Hopefully it's by you and we could be ranch neighbors. He's like, I'd love that. I said, cool, you'll come over and help me and teach me? He's like, absolutely. I'm like, cool, I'll come over and help you and learn from you. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Take care of your responsibilities. And, and, and what are your responsibilities?

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Well, you have a responsibility to your bride. You have a responsibility to God, number one, then your bride, then your children, then yourself. And I would also throw in your community, the environment, the neighborhood, whatever, wherever you live. And outside of that, if you build an empire, great. If you don't build the quote unquote empire, so what? You matter to the people who matter in your life. And I think as I get older, that's more and more important than a bunch of strangers on the internet.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? I fought years.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Wanting to be outside of a small town in Utah.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  And the older I get, the more it draws me back, you know? And I'm like, oh, man, I get it. I didn't get it as a kid, but I get it now for sure.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  I would trade, let me say it this way. I would trade the millions of followers that I have,

• 37:16Speaker 00

  that I've, that we've built over 11 years of doing this. And I remember 11 years ago, I'm like, I want to have a big following. I would trade every single one of those followers to have a ranch in Montana and three or four people close to me. Having a place my kids could visit, being able to go visit Frank and like, have a cigar or sit by the fire in the evening, you know, a couple nights a week. Going to like, help neighbors if they needed me to help them put up a barn or throw up a fence or hunt a grizzly that was attacking their cattle. I would trade all of, everybody listening, I would trade all of you for that.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  With the utmost respect that I have for you guys. I would, I would trade it in a heartbeat.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  So take that for what it's worth.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it. All right, Ricky Bennerman. I've been sober from porn for 47 days after almost a decade of it running my life quietly in the background. I haven't told my wife the full extent of it. Do I owe her that truth, even if it might do more damage than staying quiet?

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Hmm. That's a good question.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a really good question.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  I gotta think about this for a second.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Don't worry about it, ignore it, leave it alone. It'll go away.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  It'll go away, yeah. Oh, shit.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  All right, here's what I would do. I'm just putting a, I'm putting myself in Ricky's shoes. Here's what I would do. You're 47 days outside of porn. That's, that's commendable, because that shit is very tempting. Forty-seven days is no joke. I want you to get to 60 days, and I don't want you to say anything. That's another two weeks. I want you to get to 60 days. And while you're getting to 60 days, I want you to write a plan out for how you're going to continue this path. Like, how am I going to avoid the temptation? When am I most tempted? Why is this a problem? How am I overcoming it? Why do I think it's not important?

• 39:40Speaker 00

  Like, actually come up with a really good plan. Written plan. I don't care if you write it in your phone, or you write it on a piece of paper. This is where I get a little hazy. I would, I would probably talk with her, man. Because you're lying to her if you don't. And you're being unfaithful if you don't. But I don't want you to go and say, hey, I have this problem, babe, like, here's what I'm, no. That's why I want you to have a plan first. It sounds like you've talked to her already about it, though. Because there was something about the first, I haven't been entirely forthright, or it was like something like that.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  The full extent of it. Yeah, I haven't told my wife the full extent. So, the full extent might just be like, how often? But she knows it's a problem.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, look. If I'm in a sales meeting, I'm going to bring up the problems enough that I can propose the solution.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  But I'm not going to, like, dwell on the problems without presenting any solution. So I'm not going to, and I'm, I'm, I'm being, I'm, I'm, I'm speaking in hyperbole, hyperbole right now.

• 40:58Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna tell her like, I watch porn every day and I beat off four times a day. If that's the case.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  I would not be going into details. Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Right. Okay. So I'm not gonna tell her that. But I'm gonna tell her, hey babe, we've talked about this in the past and you know, like pornography is a temptation for me. And I'm really trying to shut it down. And I'm 60 days into this. I've not seen pornography at all. Not actively searched it out. I haven't seen it. And I'm feeling really good about it. And I just wanted to share with you, and it's important that I share with you because I want to be in integrity in our marriage. Like, I don't want to deceit you, or be deceitful, or keep things from you, just the same, I wouldn't want you to keep things from me. And so, I want to share with you, if I can, a plan that I've implemented to ensure that I stay faithful to you. This is important to me.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  Here's how I'm going to handle it, and here's what I ask of you in support. And you share your plan with her. And she'll be mad, bro. She will be mad. I promise you. She's gonna be upset. She's gonna be bothered.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  But what's the alternative? Just keep lying about? I mean, she probably already knows, if we're being honest.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  So, because you're not having sex with her as often. She probably, maybe has seen something on your search browser, and she might even be, at this point, she might even be wondering like, is this guy gonna be a man and tell me, or is he gonna just keep hiding it?

• 42:29Speaker 00

  So, I would have the conversation. I would do one other thing. There's a good friend of mine. His name is Satia Sam. He actually sent me a text this morning, and I guess he's got a a thing that he's doing July, I wanna say it's like July 17th? That he's starting. It's a new app, or a challenge, or a program, or something. I just looked at it briefly. But if you go look Satia Sam, so it's S A T H I Y A, Satia. Sam, S A M. You'll probably find that challenge.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Get some help, man. You need some help on that, and that's okay. But I would not approach her if I didn't have a plan yet.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  What do you think, Kip?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Can I, you said something I thought was profound.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  And I just want to make sure Ricky catches it. It was, this is really important to me.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  So that's, that's a big difference. Then you go into her saying, hey, I'm trying to stop this thing because I know it offends you.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  No, no, no. It's important to me that I'm not doing this. That way you're not doing it for her. You do it for you. That's, that's going to be fleeting. Right? So, and, and maybe even challenging now Ricky even, you know, 47 days in, why? Why are you doing this?

• 43:51Speaker 01

  And, and if it's strictly, well, because I don't want my wife to get mad at me. I, I would suggest go deeper. And get connected to something even more powerful than that. And it needs to be aligned with you.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  So that way, when she's a jerk to you tomorrow and she acts up all of a sudden, your reason doesn't go out the door.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a good point, man. If she's like, hey, I'm like, period. And I don't want to have sex tonight. It's like, okay, that's not going to slip you back into temptation. Good point.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  That's a tough one, man. I wrestled with that one because do we just leave it alone and just fix it?

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Make it worse.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  I mean, you could make it worse. I mean, there's a very real risk in it, right?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But one thing's for sure, Ricky, you're doing the right thing and that is changing. That for sure.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  I want like, okay, so think about this, you know, we're, we're talking about 4th of July earlier. And I'm not saying that their founding fathers were without sin or temptation. Obviously they were. Clearly.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Um.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  But I think what they did really well is they tried to do the right thing regardless of sacrifice and consequence.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  You know, you, these guys pledged their, their, their wealth and their sacred honor to do what they thought was right. Now, England thought they were traitors and we can debate that. And I guess if England would have won the Revolutionary War, then they would have been labeled as traitors and the history books would have been written differently, but they weren't. They were written the way that God intended them to be written.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  But I think one thing they did just about better than any of us is they tried to act with an integrity. They weren't perfect. You know, you can look at the history of slave ownership, for example, with Jefferson and George Washington and question that. And I, and I do too. They were not free from sin. Now, was it acceptable? Yeah, it was a different time. That doesn't make it okay or righteous. It just means that they looked at it from a different lens, kind of like the script we were talking about earlier. But I do believe they were willing to sacrifice in order to do the right thing. And over the long haul, I'll just say this, over the long haul, every right decision

• 46:29Speaker 00

  that I've made, regardless of the consequences that I've suffered from, has been the right move. I cannot think of a, uh, uh, an exception to that rule.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Can you?

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think it comes down to being right with yourself, or if you want to use the term aligned with yourself, there's a cost to that. Whenever we're at a congruent.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  Kip, have you ever had somebody come to you in your life? And I, I know some people are unreasonable. You're, you're not. And so maybe this is different, but I know some people would be. But have you ever had somebody come to you?

• 47:13Speaker 00

  And say?

• 47:17Speaker 00

  Hey Kip, I'm sorry I wronged you in this way. Or I fell short in this way, or I did this thing and I didn't mean to do it. And here's how I'm going to ensure I don't do it again. Have you ever in your life? I'm not saying you wouldn't be hurt or bothered or frustrated. But have you ever in your life not thought more highly of that individual after that confession?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Always, always higher. I mean, I've even had situations where I had someone share their past with me. It wasn't anything towards me, it was just their past. And that may have been enough to judge them, but I had more respect for them. I'm like, got it, like raw. But I, you know, I don't know. I just love it when people are just more open and more kind of authentic and raw with each other. That just resonates with me.

• 48:15Speaker 00

  I know.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  And so I appreciate that a lot.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  That's why I said you might be a different kind of person. You know, I know some people are unreasonable, you're not.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  But I've never had that experience where somebody's like, hey, man, I fucked up. Like, here's what I did and I'm sorry. And I was like, you did fuck up? I'm like, oh, thank you. What are we going to do about this?

• 48:36Speaker 00

  How are we going to fix it? We, like, how are we going to do this together? I'm, because you admitted it and told me like, I'm on board. What are we going to do to fix it?

• 48:45Speaker 00

  And I think if your wife's reasonable, I mean, I've heard crazy stories of women staying together with these just absolutely abusive, nasty, vile men. And they stay together because they want to keep their families together because they still love their husbands. You're not, you're not a horrible person. In fact, you're a very honorable person because you faced temptation and you faced up to it and you're making amends and you're trying to fix it. That's honorable. And I think, I think she will see that. I do personally.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and the effects of the habit is probably affecting her too. So this probably just makes sense. If she doesn't know and you communicate, she's like, oh, okay. That may, I was thinking that maybe you were sleeping and cheating on me with another woman, right? Like, who knows, right? She could have been assuming even worse things. You know, but she, trust me, she's probably picking up on something that, that something's not right.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Well, I promise you, she feels unwanted. I can promise you that. Minimum.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  She feels like you don't find her attractive anymore. Cause you don't. Cause you're comparing her to bimbo Barbie over there that has the perfect set of tits, that has the perfect hair, the perfect smile, the perfectly white teeth, no stretch marks, perfect thigh, like whatever, whatever your thing is. So, cause AI created it. And so like, of course, of course. So reprogram your mind. All right, brother. I know you got a jet. We had some good questions. I know we got a lot more that we can follow up on next week. Uh, let the guys know where to go and connect with us and we'll wrap things up today, Kip.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. As always, connect with Michler on X and Instagram, at Ryan Michler. And the main thing is, you know, join the Iron Council. I mean, I can even look at some of these questions. It's like, you mentioned surround yourself with like-minded men. Guess what we have in the Iron Council? We have a sobriety channel. We have a, a beating porn addiction channel. We have group, these groups are part of what it is to be part of the Iron Council. So to learn more about the Iron Council and to join us there, go to theironcouncil.com.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  Sweet. Kip, I appreciate you, man. Uh, really good discussion. Great questions. I get excited more and more for the questions. They're just elevated compared to what we've had in the past and I love to see that. Connect with me, connect with Kip, keep the conversations going. Uh, had a really good conversation with Jake Woodard yesterday. If you haven't listened, it's on the polarity and dynamics between men and women in relationships. Make sure you check that out and then I'll have a really good Friday field notes for you this Friday. Guys, until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the Order at OrderOfMan.com.