Why Your Relationships Need More Leadership and Less Control | ASK ME ANYTHING

In this episode of Ask Me Anything, Kipp and Shawn tackle four questions about the challenges men face in leadership, relationships, personal growth, and fatherhood. They discuss how to earn respect as a newly promoted supervisor without becoming an authoritarian boss, how to bring excitement and connection back into a long-term marriage, and how to stop letting past mistakes define your future. They also explore the challenges of parenting teenagers and rebuilding a relationship with a son who is becoming increasingly distant. Along the way, they share personal experiences and practical advice about influence, intentional relationships, and becoming a better father. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Catching Up and Hunting Stories 03:16 - Establishing Authority Without Losing Respect 06:30 - Leadership Through Influence, Not Authority 10:56 - Bringing the Spark Back Into Marriage 15:00 - Dating Your Spouse Again 17:25 - Overcoming Regret and Moving Forward 21:00 - Turning Your Past Into an Advantage 26:04 - Reconnecting With Your Teenage Son 30:00 - Understanding Teenagers and Their Behaviour 36:00 - Parenting With Peace Instead of Conflict 38:30 - Creating Lasting Family Memories 41:30 - Closing Thoughts and Where to Connect 42:27 - Iron Council Announcement Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The best way to have a healthy relationship with your past is to always figure out the lessons from it. Once you figure out the lessons, now you have a healthy relationship for it. You should be growing into the person that you want to be so much that you're like, man, I am grateful I spent my twenties doing what I did. Why? Because it helped forge the man you are today. All right, Sean, how's it going, man? It's you and I. It's been a bit, probably, I don't know, maybe a couple of months. Every couple of months, we get a chance to record the AMA together.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great to be here with you as always.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just love that you're taking a break from, uh, from hunting to actually drop in and do a quick recording. And then I'm assuming you're going back out or it'll be too late for you to, to hunt this morning.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It just depends. It's the kind of pre-rut. So, you know, it's any day now where it kicks in and they get stupider. Right now, they're still smart. So they're, they literally, I'm right over one this morning at, uh, you know, and then 10 minutes before shooting, lady bounces out. So it's been that way all week, but it's pre-rut. So they're about to rut and, uh, then they should start walking around more mid-morning.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  I've always appreciate that about hunting that, uh, that we choose to hunt the bucks when they're, when they're stupid, when they're so retarded. We totally exploit them and kill them when there's just so sexually active that they can't think straight. I mean, it's, it's actually a great strategy.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Same with elk, right? It's, uh, yeah, it's funny. I had a, I had a lady telling me like how mean that was. And, uh, and I was like, you say that until you see how mean those elk are to their cows, you know, when you get out there and, um, and, uh, you know, then you don't feel so bad.

• 1:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I'm sure smarter men than me probably have some really strong correlation and evidence between the stupidity of man, um, in the event that, uh, we haven't gotten any, uh, action lately either. And we're just as retarded as elk and elk and deer. So.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  For sure. At every age, right?

• 2:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally. Oh, man. I mean, there's a reason why we have phrases. I mean, I probably even shouldn't be saying these things. Some of the phrases of, you know, well, I'd test you, right? Have you ever heard someone say, before you go to Vegas, they say, they say a phrase? Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. That one?

• 2:39Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Before you go to Vegas?

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, like never go to Vegas in a, with a loaded gun or, yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  I digress. I digress. All right. We only have roughly about 40 minutes or so. Um, so let's, let's, I jump right into it. Is that cool? And I'll, I'll set these questions. We got some good ones, man. So hopefully we can drop some knowledge for you guys today, uh, while Ryan's out. I think Ryan's out hunting. Um, I don't know what his excuse is when you can, you know, drop in and do a podcast, but, uh, Alan, uh, Brian's out hunting this week, uh, and, uh, he'll be back for next week's AMA. So, all right, Jake Morrison, I just got promoted to supervisor over a crew of eight guys I, that he worked with besides for, or for over five years. A couple of them have already

• 3:30Speaker 00

  started testing him by showing up late, ignoring small instructions and joking that I've gone corporate. I don't want to come in heavy-handed and lose the relationship, but I also know if I let this slide, I'll never get control back. How do I establish real authority without becoming the guy everyone resents?

• 3:51Speaker 01

  You gotta take them aside individually and have a conversation, especially if you have a pre-existing relationship. It shouldn't actually be that difficult. Um, but you, a mistake would be to do it in front of everybody. Um, and try to like stamp your authority. You know, I think a lot of guys make that mistake when they're, when they're given a promotion and all of a sudden they come in hot on certain things and, you know, guys that were their quote unquote buddies before. That's where you get the resentment. And then if you go in one-on-one, you can have a conversation like a friend and be like, hey, look dude, you're putting me in a difficult situation. This is, you

• 4:35Speaker 01

  know, now I have to answer to our boss and it all lands on me and you guys are giving me a hard time, but it needs to get done the correct way. And I can't let that slide. I don't want to have to do anything to you guys because you're my friends, but I want you to understand the situation I am in and I hope you get a promotion. I hope down the road, this, the same is in store for you. And I also hope that you'll have a conversation with somebody like this. Um, cause there's a lot of different ways I could go about this. Um, you know, and become more corporate, but you know, I'm

• 5:18Speaker 01

  not that guy. And so I want to have more of a one-on-one with you and see if you can help me out here with the rest of the guys and do that with all of them, you know? So do it like you're just doing it with them and then, and do it with everybody. And in that conversation, also make sure you tell them what they're doing right and what you appreciate about them and how they work. It's got to be honest. It's got to be sincere. Find the things that they do well and make sure you have the conversation with them about them doing that well and that you notice it and that corporate notices it. But also, you know, this is what we need to get done now. Um, you know, and

• 6:00Speaker 01

  so spend the time to have those conversations. Um, you know, whether it's bringing, if, if you have to bring them into your office or, you know, whatever it is in the setting where you guys work, or if it's just like, you know, you're sitting in your truck and you're like, hey dude, can you step in real quick? I want to talk to you about something, you know, or do it that way. Um, you know, which I think is easy to find, but that'd be my recommendation. What do you think?

• 6:26Speaker 00

  Dude, I, I think it's solid. Solid advice. Once again, from Sean, mic drop. We're done. We need five minutes. That's it. We don't need the whole 45. All right. So, no, that was great, man. The only thing I'd add is, you know, let me share it this way through a story. I was so lucky that this happened to me once. So, so I got hired on, I sold my company. I got hired on, um, part of the purchase was that I'd come on and, and lead a team for the company who bought me. No joke, the owner didn't communicate with the team that I was going to be their director.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Oh, that had to be so weird.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  So, so luckily I didn't come in heavy-handed. So no one, like they weren't like, you know, they weren't like, who's this jerk that thinks he's our boss? I just showed up and I was just like in the trenches with the dude, with the guys. And I found out probably about a week in that they hadn't been told yet. So I ran with it. I'm like, actually, this is kind of perfect. And so then I just got in the trenches and I just did what I did. And my focus wasn't authority. My focus was, how do I help this team win? And I just focused on helping the team win. And then I dropped it

• 7:43Speaker 00

  maybe probably like a week or two later that I was actually coming in as the director and it went really, really well. Why? Because they knew that I wasn't going to be a corporate, authoritative asshole. They went, oh dude, awesome. We love this guy. He's nice. He's helping us out. That's the beautiful part about leadership too, that, that I don't, you know, and I know that's not necessarily part of the question for Jake, but Jake, you might be thinking that you need authority. No, no, no. You need influence. Anybody can, you, this is a perfect example. Anyone can get authority, Jake. Someone gave you authority and look at you. It's not going your way. What's

• 8:24Speaker 00

  your natural instinct? Oh, where's my stick? I don't want to be the corporate guy. Dude, you never need that stick. If you lead. So never go the authority route. Go influence. And how do you go influence? It's right to what you said, Sean. Make sure that team knows that you're there to help them win. You don't have to be the smartest person. You don't have to have all the perfect answers. All of that, like you don't need to know any of those things. What you need to know, or what they need to know is that you're there and you're dedicated to helping them all be successful as a team, as individuals. Once they know that's true, you have trust and you have

• 9:04Speaker 00

  relational influence and they'll listen to you. Why? Because it's genuine and the intent they can trust. And it's not a corporate thing. It's not a tit for tat. It's not control. So I would just add that to the, to the recommendation from you.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's where the, the pointing out what they're good at comes into play too. Because if you point out, hey, this is like, you're special. This is what you're good at. I'm going to need your help in that area. I'm going to need your help there getting that part done. Can I count on you? And when you have that one-on-one of can I count on you? Now they have accountability to it. It's not just, you know, you coming down on the team or whatever else. It's funny. I was doing a training last night for my business and I was telling them that, uh, what, the topic of my training was what a leader does not, you know, and, uh, it's all the don't do's from a leadership perspective. And one of them was never use fear and intimidation, uh, which is most corporate

• 10:03Speaker 01

  strategies. It's like, hey, I'm going to dock your pay. I'm going to write you up. I'm gonna, you know, whatever it is. Um, and that's the worst possible thing you could do.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  Totally. And, and it's the worst is because, and here's the funny part, it works. It'll work in the short term.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Short term.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Damage, yeah. The damage on the backside of that is just going to make things worse. I mean, imagine if, if Jake in this example came in heavy-handed, would the guys, uh, shape up a little bit? Yeah, they would, but they would all resent you Jake, behind your back. And trust would erode. They would reduce their effort to just to match the bare minimum and they would put up with you. Dude, that's not a team, right? Like that's a crappy work environment, right? Uh, and, and that's what authority gives you, right? When you, when you use, I shouldn't say authority, but that, when you use fear and write some of those dirtier tactics of leadership. All right, let's move to Marcus. Marcus Whitfield, my wife and I have been married 12 years. Nothing's wrong.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Exactly. We've never heard this before. We don't fight. We're good parents. We handle the bills, but it feels like the roommates, like we're roommates running business, uh, roommates running a business together. I miss when we actually liked each other. How do I take the, the lead in getting us back to something we both excited about without it feeling forced or awkward?

• 11:30Speaker 01

  It's, well, first of all, if you're

• 11:34Speaker 01

  trying to, let's call it spice up your relationship again, or, or spark the relationship to make it a little more exciting and fun and, and less of a job. Again, I'd want you to know upfront, it's going to feel awkward at first. It's, so let's get that out of your, yeah, it's, let's get that out of your brain that you're not going to have that feeling upfront. Because when you start anything different, it's going to be awkward. Right? It's if you've gotten into a routine and everything else. And you're going to have to have a conversation about it, which is going to be awkward too. Right? So I just wanted to preface it with that.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Get awkward.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Get, be willing to, to have it be awkward, at least upfront. But have the conversation of planning in things that are fun for you guys that aren't necessarily, you know, just involving the kids and your jobs and your routine. Something as simple as date nights, as going out and doing things that you guys enjoy. Maybe new things that you don't know if you enjoy yet. Kind of like when you do, when you're dating, you go out and you do stuff and you're kind of feeling out what each other likes. You know, spending the time of finding things that she really enjoys to do that you maybe don't and, and setting up times to go do those things.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Little getaways that I would say once a quarter, like little mini honeymoons where you go to, you know, someplace nice. It doesn't have to be a lot of money or anything else, but just different. I mean, literally you could go camping or something, you know, every couple's different. Right? My wife likes to go to places that have a nice spa. She doesn't care where it is, as long as there's a nice spa there and I could, we could go there for two, three days and holy smokes, man, it's the best, you know, and then make that

• 13:25Speaker 01

  intimate and, and, and fun, you know, so it's, so that you, you just, you keep that spiciness and be willing to have those conversations.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  You know, and even, and this, this might come out awkward for you, but even sexual conversations of like, hey, if that feels routine of like, hey, what might be interesting to you, you know, is there anything that you want to change up or try or? I think too many couples are not willing to have those conversations because they're, maybe they're already like, it's, you enjoy it. You know, you enjoy it. So you don't think of having the conversation and, but maybe it's like, hey, you want to try something? You want me to do this? And that's awkward. But when you open that conversation and make it okay,

• 14:20Speaker 01

  it gets less awkward, but then you also start enjoying each other more and you, you, you get that spark back. I mean, my wife and I, we're about to have our 25th wedding anniversary and, you know, we're in that mode and having those conversations and, and we've been doing it for,

• 14:40Speaker 01

  you know, probably the last four or five years, more than we ever have. And, and it's, it's not boring. It's not routine. It's not, you know, those things because we're, we're willing to have those conversations. But when we first started it, it was a little awkward. You know, so that's a couple of things I have there for that, I would say.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  How would you approach the conversation, Sean? Like would, you know, yeah, what recommendation do you have for Marcus of kicking this conversation off with the, with the wife? Right? Would you, would you go about saying, hey, you know, this marriage has been boring? Do you have ideas or?

• 15:25Speaker 01

  I would just, I would just book it like, like, yeah, get a babysitter for the kids and whatever and book a place to go. Just start with like an overnighter.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  You know, where you get a babysitter and maybe you have in-laws or somebody, I don't know who you have, you know, everybody's different there too. That was always hard for us, getting babysitters and, and figuring that out. But if you can plan like a little overnighter and when you have it, just be like, hey, I just, I want to do more stuff like this. I want to start, you know, let's get back to dating each other again.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  And because by the way, everything you're saying is normal. You know, and so, so you don't want to come off of, of like, we're boring. Yeah. It's because that's everybody, we're, human nature is like, we like routine. Most of us don't like change. You know, it's like, we like to feel secure and there's kind of like safety and, and in knowing what's going to happen, but simultaneously it's, you know, in, in a relationship, you want it to feel new and exciting sometimes and,

• 16:36Speaker 01

  you know, it, it's amazing what just going on a date can do and make you feel like you did when you were dating again. It's just, it's one of those things that married couples slip into is not going on dates, not getting time away from your normal environment and the kids and, and the running them around and all the stuff that comes with that. And so just to break away from that is, you'd be amazed at how much that does for feeling fresh again.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a good point, you know, and Marcus, you said something in the question that I'm like, do not repeat this part. And it is, I miss when we actually liked each other. Keep that shit to yourself. That's like,

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, never, ever say that.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Hey, could we get back to where I actually liked you? Don't say that.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 17:29Speaker 00

  All right. Tyler Brennan, I'm 34 and I spent most of my twenties partying, bouncing between jobs, avoiding anything hard. Now I look at guys my age who have built careers, families and savings, and I feel like I'm a decade behind. Some days the regret is paralyzing. How do I stop looking back and start making real progress with the time I have left?

• 17:54Speaker 01

  How old did he say he is now?

• 17:56Speaker 00

  34.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  34. Dude, you're only 34.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  I wouldn't mind being 34 again.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  I know.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's like Tyler, you need to ask younger guys this question because those older guys are like, dude, 34 is young.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  I know. It's, well, and it's funny too, like I always think from a perspective of business, which I'm sure you do as well. And it's like, anytime I hear someone like this, I think of the Colonel Sanders story, right? Colonel Sanders was like 67 when he started Kentucky Fried Chicken or something that, like that.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  It never is too late and the, I commend you for

• 18:43Speaker 01

  figuring that out at 34. I mean, my business is I'm helping people plan their retirements, right? That's for the most part, that's mostly what I do. And, and build businesses to help people do that. And so between those two things, I mean, most people when they're 54, you know, are, haven't really started, you know, thinking about the future like you're talking about right now. It might look like these other guys have it figured out and everything else, but trust me, you know, most people don't. And so the fact that you're thinking this way, you've already overcome the biggest hurdle. It's, and so like, I want to commend you for that. Okay. Now that being said,

• 19:31Speaker 01

  just go do it. Like who cares what you did in the past? Like look at that as good memories, good times. I mean, that was the reason that you did it, right? Is because you wanted to have a good time. So why feel guilty for that? That was your choice. You already made that choice, you know, you, you, you made your bed, so sleep in it. And now what can you control? And so now all you can do is figure out what's the type of man I want to be now. And if it, like, it sounds like you want to be a high performer, you want to be responsible, you want to save money, you want to, you know, start building a future and a nest egg and net worth is what I'm assuming, right?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  And stability, then start putting yourself in environments and start reading books and going to seminars and doing things that are going to give you the best chance to be that man. And I don't care if we're talking spiritually or from a family standpoint or, you know, as a, as a business person or in, you know, whatever your workspace is. But start enveloping yourself in what's going to help you grow in those things. And you'd be amazed if you focus on that. Like what you did in the past is just going to be a part of your story that you're going to be excited to tell down the road when you're successful.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  And instead of dwelling on it, if you just dwell on it though, then you're going to turn into Al Bundy. Then you're going to turn into Uncle Rico, right? And, and that's the worst thing that could happen. So I'd just say, you know, find the stuff that's going to help you be successful in that vision that you have for yourself and like, take the first, just start moving forward in that.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, as humans, we have this amazing ability to project, to, to project what could be, right? It's a form of creation. That same ability, when we throw it on the past, is so damaging. And you think about this, this is so crazy. Oh, I spent my time, my, my twenties doing this I shouldn't have. Says who?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  And who didn't, by the way?

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and what, what book are you going off of, of that says you should have and you shouldn't have?

• 21:54Speaker 00

  It's not even a thing. Like, isn't that interesting? That is not a thing of what I should have or shouldn't have done. That doesn't even exist. That's a construct of your mind. There is what happened. Period.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  And sometimes we get so wrapped up with this hindsight of looking back at our past of what it should have been. Well, it's a waste of time. It's impossible. There just is what happened. Now, here's the beautiful part about it. It's what are you going to do about it? And what did you learn from it? The best way, the best way to have a healthy relationship with your past is to always figure out the lessons from it. Once you figure out the lessons, now you have a healthy relationship for it. In fact, Tyler, you should be growing into the person that you want to be so much that you're like, man, I am grateful I spent my twenties doing what I did.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Why? Because it helped forge the man you are today. That is how life works. In fact, Tyler, you probably wouldn't even be focused on the things that you're focused on right now if it wasn't for you partying in your twenties. So look back at your twenties and say, hey, I'm grateful for all those mistakes. I'm grateful for those shortcomings. I'm grateful for the experiences. Why? Because they helped forge who you are right now. And to think that you're something right now without the experiences of your past is naive. You are who you are right now because of the experiences. So if you like where you're pivoting, if you like where you're going, give credit to your past for helping forge that.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  That's how that works. And so don't look at it as this other thing. Look at it as the path that got you to where you are. And if you don't like where you are, keep forging the path. And then you'll end up having a better relationship with the past anyway.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  You know, I always give gratitude to what you just spoke about in my own life. Because I was really lucky. I started getting my act together at 22. It's when I started my business. But I went hard in my late teens, early twenties. And I'm so grateful for that time, Kip, like to what you just said, because I look and I say, man, I'm so glad that I had that experience and I went nuts and I slotted around and I did all the stuff that I did, right? That because I got it out of my system. So I never have in the back of my head like, ooh, what if I would have partied a little more? What if I would have done this? Yeah, like, like, man, that was, that was crazy, right?

• 24:35Speaker 01

  I could look back on it, but then also know that ultimately, when it comes to my happiness, my fulfillment, the things that I really want out of my life, because I had that experience, I know that's not it. And so it's like, a lot of time, there's, you know, men and women, it's, it's a big part of why, you know, you're seeing divorce rates and all this stuff be a little higher is they have this what if, you know, in the back of their head of things they didn't experience, or they didn't try, or they whatever. And then that leads them into, you know, kind of destroying their future lives because they, you know, never tried it when they were younger.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  And so if you're at the point where you, you know, can look back on that, like, man, I went hard. I probably shouldn't have done that. That's good. You know, that's a strength that you have moving forward because you're not going to be pulled back in that direction because you know where that life leads already. I think it's an advantage.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can grab multiple people that had the same paths. Like you could grab siblings that had the same rough childhood. One sibling is killing it, the other sibling is crumbling. Why? How they look back at their past. That's the difference. One is probably growing and learning from it. The other one is still a victim of it. So stop being a victim of your past, learn and grow from it. And then, and then you'll be stepping into a more intentional space, right? Moving forward. All right, Dan Kalowski, my 15 year old son used to follow me everywhere. Now he barely talks to me. Every time I try to have a conversation, he gives me one word answers and he disappears into his room. I've tried taking him fishing, asking about school, even sitting with him while he games.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  Nothing works. What am I doing wrong? How do I reach him before it's too late?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Dude, welcome to 15, you know? It's like, it's been-

• 26:34Speaker 00

  What does that mean, too late? What do you, do you like?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  I, I mean, Kip, you've experienced this. I have it right now. I'm actually been on cloud nine lately because, and we've talked about this on other podcasts. A question like this almost always comes up and I can tell you, my kids, my daughter's 21. I have an 18 year old son, a 17 year old son, and an 11 year old son. And, you know, my 11 year old is still in the stage where he loves dad. He wants to do everything with dad. Man, dad's awesome. Dad's cool. You know, all that stuff. And it's like all of our kids. And once they become teenagers, they lose their minds. And it gets really bad. 15, 16, 17 even, you know?

• 27:22Speaker 01

  And I would have said 18, 19, but I can tell you, like, I just had a turnaround with my boys. It's amazing, you know, that, that the reason I'm kind of on cloud nine is they're in a space now. My oldest is, he's starting to get offers to play football at different schools. He's, you know, looking at what schools he wants to go to, applying, getting accepted at different places. And, you know, he's going through that process. And school was really hard for him. He had a lot of difficult things. He transferred schools after his freshman year and, you know, like, it's, it's been really rough. And when it was really rough, he never talked to me.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  So it's like, I, I don't worry. I don't have anxiety. But that dude is the reason I got an ulcer a couple of years ago, like for the first time in my life, you know? And I'm like, having, like, couldn't sleep at night and all of these things. And, and now at 18, like, he's getting these offers and he's just like, he just got a good score on his ACT. Like I said, he's getting acceptances. He's getting offers to play football. He's getting all these things that I worried about are happening. And like, he's getting excited talking to me about him and everything else. And then, and then he just kind of dropped the bomb.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  And Kip, you know, we're LDS, right? And so it's like, I was a convert teacher. I never went on a mission. I, I converted when I was in my mid twenties. And so like, I never went on a mission. I never, you know, had that, never grew up in that environment, never had that expectation. And we've never been heavy on our kids about it either. And, but we obviously, I tell him, I would love it. I'd be a better man. I just tell him my own experience of, I wish I had grown up in a church and had that,

• 29:22Speaker 01

  that ability, that experience, like, I could have had that experience. I feel like I missed out. Like, I'd be a better man if I didn't have it. I never told him what he should do, what this. I just always my experience, my stuff. And most of those conversations, I didn't think he was paying attention. I didn't think he was listening. I didn't think he cared. I did, I thought actually he was mad at me for having the conversations with him, right? And all of it. And I'm talking mission, school, football, getting good grade, like, all of it. I thought like, he's feeling right now, like, am I messing up? Am I losing time? Am I blowing it? You know, what can I do before it's too late?

• 30:07Speaker 01

  I had all the same thoughts, but I can tell you this. Keep taking him fishing, keep having the conversations, keep talking to him while you're driving. Don't make it about what he should be doing, what this, any of that. Make it about what he wants to do, what he likes, why he's doing the things he's doing. What your experience would be, even saying things like, I would tell him things like, hey, look, I'm telling you this, not because I think I'm smarter than you or better than you. I just want you to, to know my experience so that you don't make some of the same mistakes I made. And just make sure you say stuff like that to him while you're in those conversations.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  And whether you think he cares or he's paying attention, or if he even likes you or not, doesn't matter as much. And then- Like be a good example the whole time of how you show up and how you want him to show up. And I can tell you now, like both of my sons, we were at a church, we were at a church camp, a young men's camp a few months ago. And when we were there, they were asked to think of somebody that they knew that they wanted to be like when they were older. And almost every boy at this camp said someone else that they knew that was, and they told him who's strong spiritually, who's a good husband, father, like, you know, makes good money, whatever it was, it could be, they could have like be a pro athlete.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  They don't care. Like who do they, who do they want to model?

• 31:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Right? Basically, who do they want to model in their life? And most of the boys said some, you know, what, no celebrities, but some athletes, some, you know, guys that they knew in the church, guys that they knew, whatever, that were successful in business and all these different things. Both of my boys said me, you know, and it blew my mind, blew my mind. I would have never in a million years thought I'd be the guy. There's, there's 10 other guys I thought they would have said first.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  And they both said me, you know, my, and then my son just dropped on me, the 18 year old just told me, we were talking about this school he wants to go to and the offer that he got. And I said, you gotta call the coach and, you know, what are you going to tell him? And, and he goes, well, I, I need to call him and ask him about leaving. And I'm like, what are you talking about leaving? And he goes, on my mission. He's like, I gotta make sure that the offer is going to be good because I'm going to go on my mission straight out of high school. And I want to make sure the offer is still going to be good in two years. And it, that like blew my mind. I was like, really? You want to go straight out of school?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, well, crap, then we better get your papers in like by January, right? Like seriously, like

• 32:58Speaker 00

  Let's get that wisdom teeth out. We gotta go.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But it was like, seriously, if he wants to go like by January, he's got to start getting papers in, right? But he kind of dropped that bomb on me. And, and his mom, like, we didn't, because we haven't pushed and we haven't, and we've been in conversation and whatever else. And, and now he's like, and he's so excited about it, you know? And, and we're, we're homecoming, we're doing all these senior things and senior announcements. We have tonight, we have the, the last home football game and, you know, the senior football players. And they announce in the beginning and we're like, well, what school do you want to say? You know, or do you want to talk about your offers and all this stuff?

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Because they announced, oh, you know, awesome, real O's is going to be going to, you know, wherever, Sawani, the University of the South and playing football. And he says, no, I want you to say that I'm going on a two-year mission for my church and that I'm undecided on who I want to play football for yet. You know, and I was like, awesome.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  Awesome.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, that was like, that's a home run, right? But it's also been the last four years of dude, did you hear any word that I said? Right? And not saying that that's where he's going to land, but here's my point. All you can do is all you can do. Who knows what my 17 year old is going to do and where he's going to land, right? But all I could do was be frustrated and not take it out on him and still love him and still keep giving my experiences. You know, like having the conversation and like, hey, I would even mess with him sometimes be like, are you mad at me because I'm trying to talk to you right now? You know, and sometimes he'd be like, no.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  I mean, his favorite answers, I don't know, right? It's like, it's so frustrating, but dude, just don't get angry, don't get whatever, maybe even joke with them a little bit.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  Personal.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Don't take it personal, right? Absolutely. So sorry that was long, but I just, I think it's important, like you hear, you know, good backend stories, but then also know that like I felt just like you do now. It may be even worse when he transferred schools and all this stuff. He was getting in trouble with things, bad friend group, all this, it was just like, literally like my nightmare, what I thought was worst case scenario. And looking back on it, it was actually the best thing that could have happened to him, you know? And, and it was so hard and, you know, all of that, like it is for all parents. But all you can do is all you can do.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  And, you know, most of the time, all you can do is enough if you, as, as long as you stay in love and care for him, you know, and, and make sure that you are articulating that to him through the process of what's, I'll be honest with you, it's going to be some hard years ahead in, in those conversations, right? So sorry, it was so long, but you know,

• 36:04Speaker 00

  It's all right.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  It's, I know your, your, your boys are older than mine too. So how was that?

• 36:09Speaker 00

  Dude, I mean, I got three boys in their twenties, right? And, and to your point, at one point, Sean, I would argue, one of our kids was giving us such a run for our money. Like he, I'm about broke our marriage, you know, he was so difficult to deal with.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Oh, hard.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Man, it was super tough, but if I

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Anxiety, right? Like what was your anxiety level? Like it's inexplorable, right?

• 36:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally. If, if I had to give you one, like one nugget, it's this.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  Hold on to this distinction, a heart at war or a heart at peace.

• 36:42Speaker 00

  If you find yourself having a heart at war towards your kid, you need to figure out what the story is that you're making up. And let it go.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  You are not going to be able to coach them from a position of heart at war. You can't coach someone when they're, when you perceive they're the problem and you're trying to change them. The minute Sean, you try to change me, I feel it. And what do I do? You push me further away. Right? Because you're trying to manipulate me. So that's not how we influence or coach people, right? So if you have a heart at war, you've got to move to a heart at peace. And a heart at peace is this, that your son is amazing, is divine, he's capable and he's figuring things out. And there's a big difference between him and his character and maybe his choices and his actions. Don't see him as the problem.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  If you see him as a problem, your parenting will treat him like the problem. He's going to feel like he's the problem and he's going to push further away. That's the nugget that I would give you. Just love on your kids. And, and we said it earlier, one of the best ways to do that is don't take it personal. Don't take it personal. And what's ironic, Sean, as parents, we do this all the time. You, you want to become a better parent? Remember what it was like to be a kid. I remember ignoring my parents all the time. I remember the short answers. I remember trying to figure out things on my own. That's part of being a teenager and it's not horrible teens. This is called them separating from you.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, telling them they didn't know anything.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is the transition of them trying to move into adulthood. It's a beautiful thing. I would see it as beautiful. Try to change our mindset around it. So then that way we don't like, oh, it shouldn't be this way. No, no, no, it is. This is part of the process, right? How do we guide them through it? And I would double down on not trying to change them. Coach them, give them advice to like what you said, Sean, but be careful. You know what I mean? The, the amount of pressure and fear and all those other tactics that we kind of talked about earlier coming to the table.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  And also like we were talking about with, I think it was Tyler with his wife and date nights and stuff like that, right? Like, do the same with your kids. Like you mentioned fishing. Make, don't stop taking them fishing, going camping, going on trips with the family because they don't want to. Like that's, my boys, almost every trip we did, we've done in the last like five years. They're like, oh man, I don't want to go there. I want to go to, you know, seaside with my friends during spring break. I want to go do this with my buddies instead. And we're like, well, we're going as a family to here. That's, and try and create traditions that you're doing as a family. And I can tell you, they didn't want to go on almost any of those trips.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  And every time they had fun, they had a good time, created core family memories. And just make sure you keep doing that. And again, in those trips, you know, just loving on them, being a good example. You know, all of that stuff. And, you know, now in hindsight, like they're, if, if we let them go do all of the things that they wanted to do instead of, you know, quote unquote, being stuck with us. You know, and, and maybe it's fishing is your thing with him or, or whatever. Maybe you'll, you'll figure out some things you can do together and, and places you can go together that he does enjoy. But either way, keep trying, keep trying different places, different things.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Keep going at it, make it normal, make it, you know, kind of traditional for your family to do. So that whether they like that they're going to be going or not with you guys, they know they're going to be doing it. And then, you know, when it's all said and done, you know, they're going to have some good experiences and some memories that are created for you guys along the way. Just don't cut that stuff out, right? It's like cutting out the date nights for your relationship. It's, you don't want to do that. You want to create more spaces for you guys to, to bond.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're still the parent, right? So don't like, you know, oh, he doesn't want to. No, no, no, we're still doing family things. It's a priority. Right? Yeah, totally. I love it, man. All right, man. We, it's a short one today. Unfortunately for my schedule, not necessarily yours. So Sean, man, that was fun. I always love having these AMAs with you, man. I appreciate you, appreciate how you show up. Dude, I'm so excited for you, man. Like I, I was getting teary eyed just hearing about your son. I mean, dude, I, some of the greatest joys in life, man, is seeing our kids progress and learn and grow and see them come in adulthood. And it's so fun when they get older. Like my boys that are in their twenties, they're, they're men that I like to hang out with.

• 41:34Speaker 00

  I didn't even see this.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  That's the best.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  I, I just, I'm like, dude, you, you guys are a solid crew, man. You guys are good guys, you know? And, and, and there's a joy in that. So thanks, Sean, once again. Maybe just a call out of maybe how people can connect with you really quick.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Now, I mean, I don't put a lot out there. It's, we, we have, you know, our website, happyandstrong.com. For like couple stuff, you know, if people want help there, it's, we do a lot of stuff there. And I'm at at Sean V M D on Instagram. And most of the stuff I put out there is silly or whatever else, but, but

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Should probably take some advice from you to lighten it up.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. But guys can reach out to me out there at Sean V M D. It's, you know, it's, it's, yeah, that's it. Appreciate it.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  Okay, awesome. Gentlemen, as you know, the Iron Council is closed for enrollment. So, but we're going to open that back up right before the end of the year for guys that want to hit the ground running in January. So, and then catch the next episode, which is Friday Fill Notes with Ryan Mickler. And until then, take action and become the man that you were meant to be.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man Podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.