A Cheating Friend, Earning Back Your Wife's Trust, and When Keeping the Peace Becomes Cowardice | ASK ME ANYTHING

Ryan Michler and Kipp Sorensen tackle six questions about friendship, marriage, parenting, career, preparedness, and personal growth. They discuss how to confront a friend who is cheating, rebuild credibility after repeatedly abandoning self-improvement efforts, and navigate a teenager's decision to skip college for the trades. They also explore the line between healthy preparedness and obsession, maintaining boundaries in a co-parenting situation, and whether loyalty to an employer is still worthwhile. Throughout the episode, Ryan and Kipp return to a common theme: consistency, responsibility, and taking ownership of your choices rather than waiting for circumstances or other people to change. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Introduction 13:46 - Confronting a Friend Who Is Cheating 18:44 - Rebuilding Credibility Through Consistency 33:07 - College vs. the Trades 42:21 - Preparedness vs. Paranoia 48:58 - Parenting Across Two Households 53:10 - Is Employer Loyalty Worth It? 1:06:18 - The Case for Taking Action Now 1:08:13 - War Room Announcement Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is the only way to development and progress is doing something every single day. That's it. And I'm not here to tell you that every single day you're going to get better. Some days you're going to fall behind, whether it's on the scale or jujitsu. I know Kip, like we've talked about this or walking a mile or running a mile. But at some point, if you do this enough and you go for a mile for the next 30 days, I promise you're going to move from 15 to about 12 and a half minutes over 30 days. That's a huge improvement.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Kip, what's up, man? So good to see you again on a Monday morning. I know we do our Friday calls typically, but I don't know, life just gets busy. So it's, I do appreciate you being flexible with your schedule a little bit and being able to do this on a Monday. It's also a good way to start out the week.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  It is a good way to start out the week. I actually don't mind it. Either day works well. I think it's nice that we have the two days kind of blocked, or at least I kind of block them usually.

• 0:52Speaker 00

  Same.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  So then that way, when things happen, you know, it works.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. You had a good weekend. It sounds like you went to Vegas. You know what's interesting about Vegas? So you live about six hours from Vegas. I live two hours from Vegas. It's always amazing to me how many people are like, oh, Vegas, I want to go to Vegas. Like, so it's not that awesome. Like, it is not that awesome. But people think it's incredible and it's horrible. Other than there's really good shows, there's really good entertainment. And then just go off the strip and find a good place to go. But maybe that's the gray in my beard that's speaking. I don't know.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I learned really quick, like I could do a night or two in Vegas and I was done. And I felt dirty and I'd have to shower like for an hour.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  You picked up an STD just walking, walking down the strip.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Walking down the strip. It's so horrible.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  They don't call it that. They call it an STI now, excuse me, sorry. It's an STI.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:53Speaker 00

  Not an STD, apparently.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know this.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  It's a sexually transmitted infection. It's not a disease. I don't know the difference, but maybe it sounds a little nicer. I don't know.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's just a temporary infection versus a permanent disease.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  Correct. Although there are some very interesting developments in, I mean, just health in general, but even like HIV, I read an article a couple of months ago that there's a antiviral pill or something that you can take where not only do you become, where you can no longer detect the virus, you also become non-transmittable as well. So there's crazy, yeah. And not only does that apply, I'm sure to HIV, but it applies to other, other infectious diseases as well. But it's pretty incredible.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, once you figure that tech for HIV, right? That tech's probably applicable across the board. Yeah, I'm, I'm constantly fascinated around, like, there's a couple of guys. I'm sure you have a couple of guys in your life, like are borderline experimental, like subjects for peptides, you know?

• 3:05Speaker 00

  I thought you were going to say I have a couple of guys in my life who have HIV. I'm like, I don't know that I do, actually.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  No, they're experimenting with peptides. And so I'm constantly like, interesting. I'm like, let me know how that goes, you know? I'll wait a little while.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  It's probably the best way to do it. I mean, you've been in tech too. And so it's interesting when I get a new upgrade on my, my Mac, I'm like, yeah, I'm not ready to, I'm not ready to do that yet. Give it two months and then in 60 days, then, you know, all the bugs and the kinks have been worked out. I'm like, cool, now I will. But I'll let other people be the guinea pig. I'm all about it.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. Yeah, you wait until the service pack one comes out and then you're, you're good to upgrade. Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  For sure. Yeah. So you went to Vegas, you guys went, you guys, what did you go to? You went to a concert or a show or something?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So we, we had a family, Asia had a family reunion in Vegas. Anyone that knows this about Vegas, it's like Polynesia 2.0.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  Vegas?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  From the Hawaiian Islands. Oh, yeah. Yeah, tons of Polynesians in Vegas.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  I thought St. George and Provo were the only other places Samoans congregated.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Dude, tons of huge Polynesian, Polynesian population in Vegas. Anyhow, half her, half her cousins are there. And so we had a family reunion, but on Saturday, a couple of weeks ago, right? Well, I've just listened to some music in the car and I threw on some Aquabats. It's old ska band from the 90s.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  And we're playing it and my kids are like having fun. They're like, this is great stuff. And I thought, I wonder if these guys are still on tour? And I hopped on the website and I'm like, dude, they're playing in Vegas the same weekend as your family reunion.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  That's wild.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  I'm like, we gotta go, right? So we gotta go. So, so we took the kids to Aquabats concert. If you don't know, those guys, look them up. They're super funny. Like they had this whole story about how they got superpowers and they became superheroes called the Aquabats and they fight evil and, and rock out, right? To music, right? That's, it's kind of like this theme. But dude, it was so, what was so cool about it was it was in Mandalay Bay, tons of adults, but it's an all age show and there's like little kids, right? In this concert hall. And the amount of attention this band gave to the kids was actually like really impressive. And it was just awesome.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  It was so cool. And at one point, he, he saw a couple of kids, like these, these two kids. It's like their first time to Aquabats concert, had them come up on the stage. And then he's like, we want to indoctrinate them into being Aquabats like the rest of us. And so they had these giant inflatable pizzas, like these massive slices of pizza. They put them out in the crowd. They chucked these kids on top of the pizzas and crowdsurfed them. You know what I mean? In, on the floor and I don't know, it was just awesome. And, and I felt so like happy for my son because he's, he's seven. He was on my shoulders at one point.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  The, the lead singer jumps off the stage with his mic in chaos and like goes through the crowd and while he's singing, comes up to Koa, gives him a high five. And it's just, but it was cool to be, to see all these adults like focused on themselves, but these little slivers of moment of like, make it special for the kids.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Everybody in that room cared, you know? And they kind of made it really kind of a special event for, for any of the little kids that were there. And there were, there weren't that many in the grand scheme of things. It was pretty much a bunch of like

• 6:51Speaker 00

  A bunch of 45 year olds.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Teenage kids from the 90s. Yeah, it's like my age at the concert with a handful of them having kids. But man, the minute he gave attention to a kid, the whole crowd like made sure that it happened. You know, it was really cool.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  I think that's cool. I think there's this, this cultural trend. I don't, I hope it's not picking up steam and maybe even it's a fringe movement of this.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  What do they call them?

• 7:19Speaker 00

  DINKs. Have you ever heard this acronym? DINKs?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  I've used that term, but I don't know if I use it correctly.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  Okay, so well.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  I think I've called people a dink before.

• 7:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a dink and that's like old, an old school insult, right?

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Dink or like a dingus. I've called people a dingus before. I don't even know what that means. But no, dink is relatively new and it's an acronym. It's dual income, no kids.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  So

• 7:46Speaker 01

  And they have a term for themselves?

• 7:48Speaker 00

  Dink, dual income, no kids.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  So they, it's, it's a husband and a wife, or a husband and a husband, or a wife and a wife. However, you have to explain it. But it's both, both partners are working and they have no kids. So dual income, no kids, dink. And

• 8:09Speaker 01

  So they get to buy whatever they want.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  The whole concept is life is better without kids. And I'm like, you know, if you only knew how awesome it was to go to your kids' football game or to take your kids to a concert or, yeah, changing diapers, dealing with crying, whiny baby, like for sure. But there is so much reward in watching your kids grow and develop and improve in a skillset, find their own personalities, find their own veins of interest, being able to support, lean into them. This whole concept of dink would just dissipate. But yeah, and, and people will say, well, my life was better without kids. I could do all these things.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  I'm like, I can do everything with my kids.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Superficial.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. Right? Like, oh, you could go to a concert with your kids? Well, you just took your kids to a concert? Did your kids inhibit you from being able to go to a concert? Or, or me, you know, I take, I take all of my children minus my daughter because she's not all that interested. I take them on hunts with me. I'm going on a hunt in about three weeks. My oldest son, who just graduated high school, he's off to college and playing lacrosse now. He's coming with me. That doesn't negate my ability to go on a hunt. In fact, it's better because he's coming with me. So I wish more people understood that just because you don't have kids, your life is not necessarily inherently better. I think actually your life is enriched by having children in it.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, you know what I find interesting, Ryan, is like, this is such a great example how it doesn't matter what someone says to you in certain elements of life, you won't understand it until you experience it.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  You just won't. And kids is one of these things. Like I, I thought I understood unconditional love. I thought I knew what love was. Like I thought what I was, I wanted to have children and I, I was like highly desirous. I wanted to be a dad when I was a young man. And all of that was true. And I still did not comprehend how amazing being a, being a father was.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And you don't get it, you know, until you

• 10:23Speaker 00

  I think that's why I'm less inclined to fight people on their current worldview. Because I it's it's actually not a good thing if you're in a debate or a discussion to tell people like, well, you don't get it. That's not a great debate tactic. That's why anymore, when people try to explain things to me and they have no context or insight into my life, I feel a less, less and less need to explain myself. Because exactly what you said, they don't understand. I don't tell them that. I'm just like, cool. All good. Even my son, my oldest son, you know, sometimes we're very much alike, but sometimes it'll be like, oh dad, I'm gonna do this and this and this, and this is gonna be good and this is gonna be, I'm like, yeah, you should, you should do that.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  Even though I know it's not gonna work out well. It's like, yeah, okay. Like if you're set on that, I just don't care as much anymore about trying to convince people that they should do something different. Now, if it's my kids and they're gonna do something dumb, of course, obviously, right? But if, if they're just making decisions, it's like, yeah, try, try that and see how it goes. I don't need to convince you, life will teach you and people are welcome to have their own opinion about things.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  And it's part of the human condition that we're just not gonna comprehend stuff until it's our feet walking on the trail. And that's just the way it is. You could read about it, you can argue about it, you can debate about it, but until you experience it, you're just not gonna understand as much.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Right. It's like that hot stove thing, you know, your kid, all of my kids have been like, I wanna touch the hot stove over the hot oven. I'm like, don't touch it, don't touch it, don't touch, don't do that, don't touch it, don't. And they do it and they're like, yeah, and they cry. I'm like, I told you. And, and now to me, it's like, nah, go ahead and touch it quickly, but go ahead and touch it and see what you think. I told you.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's get that over with.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Go ahead. Fine. You can touch the thing, you can pick up the snake, you can like, go ahead. I'll be here when you start crying and I'll help you, you know, work through the pain, but like, yeah, go ahead. Um, I'm just less inclined to like, wanna help people

• 12:31Speaker 00

  understand what all of us have gone through and just like, yeah, sometimes people just need to learn it on their own.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I totally agree.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Cool, man. All right, man. We got some good, we got some good ones.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right. Wade Pruitt. Um, I found out my best friend, 20 years, is cheating on his wife. I know her well and our kids play together. He doesn't know I know. Do I confront him, tell her, or stay out of it?

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, you confront him. Yeah, like, this is not even a que, you don't, the, well, you said, do I confront him, tell her, stay out of it? The last two, you do not do.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't do those. Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Like, tell her?

• 13:19Speaker 00

  You would be an asshole to just like, go right to her and tell her. Because again, you don't, you actually think you know, but you don't understand the entirety of the situation. And then also doing nothing just makes you a loser. I think. So what I would do, Kip, if I found out, if this, if this was our context, uh, I would come directly to you and be like, bro, I've heard some things, uh, there's some rumors going around, there's some stuff circulating in, in our circles. And I'm not gonna throw you under the bus, I'm not gonna go to your wife, like, you're my friend. I'm coming to you. What the hell is going on, man? Wha- what are you doing?

• 14:05Speaker 00

  What is happening? What is going on? I wanna understand. Again, no judgment, a little judgment, you know, maybe. Uh, but I'm, I'm here for you, but what is happening? That's what a friend would do. A friend would not do nothing and a friend would not supersede or, or skip the chain of command and go directly to the wife. A friend would go to the person like a man would do and say, bro, you're messing up. What is going on here? And then what I would do, if, again, if, if it was our situation and you did say, yeah, I've been, you know, seeing this other woman on the side or whatever. Like, all right, well, we're gonna, I'm here, I'm here for you. Like, we're gonna not do that.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  And you're gonna tell your wife, I'm not gonna tell her, you're going to tell her what's going on and you're gonna fix yourself and fix your family. Uh, because that's what is required of a man. So, yeah. You'd confront him, absolutely. A hundred percent.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  I'm trying to think what else we could add here for Wade. I mean,

• 15:15Speaker 00

  I, uh, one thing I would add is just come at it with a level of empathy and like, again, you don't know, you're, you're hearing rumors, a lot of it is probably true or, or could be true. There's a lot of hearsay, there's a lot of rumors. Just come at it with a level of empathy. You don't know his situation yet, so don't be accusatory right out of the ba, right out of the bat. Just, just say, hey dude, like, I've heard a lot of stuff, like, there's some things going around and it's not, it's not a good look, man. What's going on? I'm here for you. Um, if it's true, I'm disappointed, but also if it's true, I'm here for you still. So what's up? What's going on?

• 15:57Speaker 00

  And come at it with a level of curiosity and understanding and even, and even love, like, I, I care about you. And I really, I really do care about you. I care about you, I care about your wife, I care about your kids. But yeah, I'm not letting this one slide, man. It's not good. So what are we gonna do about it here? And you know what? In this situation, this might be a little controversial, but if I came to you, again, I'm just using our scenario as an example, if I came to you and said this and you started to rectify and fix the situation, I actually would never, this might be where it's controversial. If you fixed it and you handled it, I would never bring it up to your wife again. It's not my place.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would be careful in that space as well.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  It's just, it's you and me. I'm your friend. You can handle it. If you're handling it, great. Um, she's got friends who are advocating on her behalf, I'm sure of it. If you're hearing about it, she probably is too. Uh, so just be there for the guy and don't overstep your bounds. And just be there and be supportive of the, of, of your friend, your, your guy friend who's dealing with this stuff and, and doing this. It's bad.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hmm. All right, Dustin. Jeez, these names. Kowalzik. Sure, Dustin. Um, Kowalzik, that sounds like a legit name.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Sounds like you just made that up.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Sounds like you made it up, not him.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  No, that's what I mean. I made it up.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  All right. My wife has watched me start and quit a dozen self-improvement kicks. This time it's different, but she rolls her eyes every time I bring it up. How do I earn back credibility with someone who's seen me fail so many times?

• 17:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm, I'm roll, you saw, if you're watching on YouTube, I was already shaking my head. You saw me roll my eyes.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  We're judging you as well, man.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Totally. You're not gonna do, you're not gonna do this one.

• 18:11Speaker 00

  And that, that might sound harsh or

• 18:17Speaker 00

  you're not, you're not gonna do it. You're just not. You're gonna do it for two weeks or three weeks or 60 days and then you're gonna revert. I already know.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  You know how you know? Probable future.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  That's what you've already done.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  That's the probable future. Based upon history, based upon what you've always done, you're gonna keep doing what you've been doing.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  There's a, there's an interesting phrase in the financial world. When I was a financial advisor and we had to throw this disclaimer out there, past performance does not predict future results. Okay, so we had to say that in disclaimers, disclosures, when I was

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Like the past performance of the market doesn't predict future.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  The market, that's the distinction.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Market.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  But every other aspect of life, it does.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Literally every other aspect of life predicts future performance, or at least leans heavy towards it. So if you've been a jerk in some circumstances, you're going to be a jerk in the rest. If you step out on your current relationship, you're probably going to step out on your next one. If you start some self-development, self-help thing, and you fail over and over again, you're going to fail the next one. It's just the reality. And I'm a little blunt today, I know, and I'm not trying to sound harsh. I'm just trying to paint an accurate picture. So the question is, how do I regain her trust? Do what you said you're going to do.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't worry about her trust. Yeah, but I think this is an important principle to remember. Anybody that's like, how do I earn their trust? No, they give you trust based upon how you're showing up.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  So you want trust, show up differently and be very careful that you're not showing up in a way to try to earn someone's trust. Like focus on character, focus on honoring your word, and trust is downstream. And if we're lucky, if we're lucky, sometimes people will give it to us. But that's not up to you to decide, it's up to them. I know that's a little bit of a tangent, but that's how I operate from a trust perspective. Otherwise, we're manipulative.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  It's a benefit, right? It's a, I don't want to say reward, but it's a benefit of you just showing up the way you want to show up. So I think to your point, Kip, instead of trying to worry about earning her trust back, why not just be a man of your word? Because that's the kind of man you want to be.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  And I don't care if she trusts you or not. It doesn't matter. Like, I don't, I do care about what you have to say and what you think about me, Kip, because you're somebody I care about. But that's not my driving principle. My driving factor when I wake up in the morning, sorry, Kip, I don't wake up thinking about you.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Man.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  I know. It's a shocker. I know.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Blows on this podcast today.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  I don't wake up thinking about like, oh, I really hope Kip thinks highly of me today. What I wake up thinking is, I've got work to do. I've got obligations to fulfill. I've got responsibilities to uphold. I've got improvements that I personally want to make. And at some point, if I happen to think about you because you send me a message or we're going to do a podcast together, it's like, oh, yeah. And then you say like, hey, Ryan, I really appreciate X, Y, and Z about you. It's like, cool, that's a bonus. That's a benefit of the work that I'm doing. And the same is true of your spouse. Like, and you might wake up thinking about your spouse, right?

• 22:07Speaker 00

  I think, I hope that that's a sign of a healthy relationship, at least one sign of a healthy relationship. But again, the motive is not, what is she going to think about you? The motive ought to be, how can I be a better man? And how can I better fulfill my obligations and responsibilities? So if I wake up thinking about, you know, the woman I'm interested in and building a relationship with, it's not to impress, it's just to say, how can I better show up to serve her? Because this is somebody I want to serve. This is somebody I care about and respect and want to pour into their life.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  But that all falls on me as far as what I need to do. So you can't, here's another thought I had. I want guys to imagine that there's a, I hope this metaphor makes sense, but imagine there's a vial that you can fill up every single day. And there's 10 units, let's just hypothetically say. And those 10 units are acts of service, honoring your word, showing up fully, being a man of character, telling the truth, et cetera, et cetera, working hard. So there's 10 units. So every time you do one of those things,

• 23:36Speaker 00

  you fill up one unit. Once you get to the top, it spills over. You can't pour it over to the next day. So I can't, I can't take the five units of good that I did today above and beyond the 10 and apply that to tomorrow and then just completely slack off tomorrow. Is this making any sense at all?

• 24:00Speaker 01

  No, I think it works out perfect because it illustrates that there's a baseline that kind of happens.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Right? There's a baseline of expectation that happens. And just because I was amazing yesterday doesn't mean I can dip below the baseline of today.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  Exactly. So what guys do when they start talking about earning the trust back is they're like, oh, I'll just put 15 units into it. Or I'll put 20 units into it. No, dude, that's not how it works. You can't put 15 units into it. There's only 10 units. You can't compensate for the shiz that you did yesterday. You have to do 10 today and 10 tomorrow and 10 the next day and 10 the following day. That's how you

• 24:49Speaker 01

  And trust.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Earn the trust, right?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. What I like about this, Ryan, is trust is then someone's confidence that that vial's full.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  And after many days, someone just assumes that that vial's full all the time. Why? Because it has been full all the time for a long time. And now there's trust.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  And here's an interesting way to look at it when you say that, and we're talking about this metaphor here, is it shouldn't be a surprise to people that you filled the vial? It should be a surprise to people when you don't.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  Right? Like, if your wife came to you and said, hey, babe, you seem off today. What's going on? That should be the exception.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  The exception. Yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  Oh, man, you really knocked it out of the park today. So how do you earn the trust? First, stop trying to earn the trust from her. And then just do what you're saying you're going to do. And don't talk about it. I think too many men are loose-lipped. Like, they'll talk with their partners and their spouses and their friends and their buddies and their colleagues and their employees and their clients about everything they're going to do because they think that's what earns the trust. No, it doesn't. What earns the trust is exceeding the expectation. And the beautiful thing, here's actually something to be optimistic about. The expectation for you right now is super low.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  Awesome.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  You don't need to out-punt your coverage. Good.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Good that it's low. It's like, good, she thinks I'm going to fail. Good. I don't need the grand slam to mix metaphors. I just need to get three yards on this play. Three, four, I mean, that's the interesting thing about football. If you average, what is it? 3.4 yards a possession or a down? You will win the football game.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Isn't that wild? Only three yards.

• 27:00Speaker 00

  3.4.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  3.4 is all you need, a little over a third. And if you average 3.4 yards per snap, you'll win the football game. It's crazy.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  It is crazy. So let's give Dustin something solid here, right? I mean, obviously, I think we beat up the trust thing. But how does he get out of this hole that he's been digging around self-improvement kicks? He obviously has a desire to become a better version of himself. He sees gaps, otherwise he wouldn't keep trying these things. He obviously has some momentum sometimes, otherwise he would never initiate something. What advice would you give to Dustin? To make a difference this time? How do we get him that this time it actually works? This time, he actually sees it through?

• 27:56Speaker 00

  Well, first, stop overcommitting. If I've been on the couch for the past decade and I woke up today and I'm like, you know what?

• 28:06Speaker 00

  I think I'm gonna run a marathon today.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Like, I'm not gonna finish the marathon 100%. But if I woke up and I said, hey, I'm gonna do a mile today. I'm gonna run some, I'm gonna walk some, but I'm gonna do a mile today. And let's say it takes you 15 minutes to do a mile. Then tomorrow, it's like, no, I'm gonna do a mile today. And maybe it takes you 14 minutes and 58 seconds. And then the next day, you wake up and like, I'm gonna do a mile today. And it takes you 14 minutes and 10 seconds. And then the next day, you're like, hey, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna do a mile. And it takes you 15 minutes and 30 seconds because you're tired and worn out. So you still did a mile. And the next day, you wake up and like, I actually feel pretty good today. I'm gonna do a mile.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  And so you do a mile and it takes you 14 minutes. This is the only way to development and progress is doing something every single day. That's it. And I'm not here to tell you that every single day, you're gonna get better. Some days, you're gonna fall behind, whether it's on the scale or jujitsu. I know Kip, like we've talked about this, or walking a mile or running a mile. But at some point, if you do this enough and you go for a mile for the next 30 days, I promise you're gonna move from 15 to about 12 and a half minutes over 30 days. That's a huge improvement. It's a 20, what is that, a 20% improvement? Over 30 days? So the key is longevity. The key is how do I stay in this forever?

• 29:36Speaker 00

  So instead of saying, I'm gonna run a marathon, let's actually break it down from a practical application. You don't need to say you're gonna save your marriage today. You just need to say, hey, I'm gonna honor my wife a little bit more than I have in the past. And so maybe that's a note. Maybe that's just like a sweet gesture of you telling her that you, hey, she made dinner last night. Hey, babe, I appreciate it. And giving her a little kiss on the cheek or, you know, a little, a little massage on the back when she's sitting there and she's tired. Just a little gesture every day. At work, it's, hey, you're not gonna like knock it out of the park and get the biggest client your firm has ever produced before, but you're gonna make 20 sales calls today.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  And then tomorrow, you're gonna do 20 sales calls. If it's in fitness, you're not gonna run the marathon. You're just gonna get up 20 minutes early and you're gonna crank out 20 pushups, 20 air squats, you know, 20 lunges or, or situps. And you're gonna do that every day. Like, that's it. It's just longevity. That's all it is. When people look at the success that we've had with the Order of Man podcast, they'll ask like, oh, how'd you have, how do you have so much success? Or how are you so good? People will say that. How are you so good with your conversations? Probably been doing it for 11 years. I, so let's just take, let's take 50 for easy math times 11, 550.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Interviews that I've done over 11 years without missing a single week for 11 plus years. How could you not be good at it? You'd have to try to not be good at it.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  It'd be harder to suck than be good at it.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  It would be effort. It would be effort to be horrible at it. And the same is true of jujitsu, right? Like Kip, if you went to jujitsu, let's say, three days a week for 10 years. How are you not going to be a brown or a black belt at that point? How? You'd have to try not to be.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  That's all it is. It's just longevity and effort, attitude and effort, like you talked about on Friday in the Iron Council. Attitude and effort, that's all it is consistently.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Love it. All right, Dustin, attitude and effort. Keep us updated. All right, Marcus Ibersol. My 17 year old wants to skip college and go into the trades. I think it's a great idea. My wife thinks I'm sabotaging his future. How do we get on the same page before he has to decide?

• 32:20Speaker 00

  That's crazy. That would be hard for me too, because getting into trades? How is that sabotage? That's hard, dude, that's hard for me to wrap. You can go into lesbian dance theory and get a college degree. Talk about sabotaging your future.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  That's hard for me to wrap my head around. You know what I would get to, Kip? Is I would get to the, I'd have some real conversations with my wife in that situation and be like, hey, babe, like, just help me understand where you're coming from. Like, what, what is it that you want for our, for our boy? And I imagine she's gonna say, well, I want him to be successful. I want him to have a good career. I want him to have something where he can provide for his own family. Okay, like, so we know he's not gonna be a doctor. He's not gonna be an engineer. He's not gonna be a psychiatrist. I don't know, like whatever fields, right? That require, require a degree.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  College degrees, yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  And so how is him getting a, a degree in lesbian dance theory going to help him achieve the goal that you're after? Like, what about, what if, what if he became a plumber? And he has a, a business where they, he's got 20 people working for him and they're server, servicing the entire county? Or what if he became a mechanic and he opens his own shop? And he, you know, he's got, you know, on average, you know, 200 people, clients that he's working with on, on a monthly basis because they're coming in for oil changes

• 34:02Speaker 00

  and servicing, and then he's got random people coming in, like, like she, the, the interesting thing that we need to consider is that she actually also wants the best for him.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  Right? Like, we can agree on that.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  She wants the best for him. You want the best for him. So maybe there's a lot of conversations about, okay, well, what is going to produce the best path moving forward? If he's like, I wanna be a doctor, then I'm like, cool dude, we're not going into trades. We're, we're going into the medical program. If you wanna become an attorney, it's like, cool, forget about the mechanics. Let's dive into legal practice, law. If you wanna go into law enforcement, sorry, you're gonna hang, have to hang up your plumbing shoes for a minute and you're gonna need to go to, you know, criminal defense, criminal, criminal law inside of school. Like, so what is it that you want? And maybe you could even sit down with your son and say, hey bud, all three of you together,

• 34:59Speaker 00

  say, without, and here's what I would do if you do this. Don't give any advice to your wife or your kid. Zero refrain. Just say, hey, guys, like, we wanted to talk about your future and, you know, me and, me and your mom wanted to sit down and talk with you about it because we care about you, we love you, and I'm really curious about where you wanna go. And all you do is ask questions. You don't project, you don't offer advice, you just ask questions. That might actually elicit some interesting dynamics between your wife and your son that she's not necessarily either privy to, aware of, or interested in hearing from you.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's spot on. I, there, there's nothing I'd add. I would just remember that we see these things differently based upon how we're raised. Right? Like in our generation, I'm sure you remember this. It's like, that was what socially was communicated. It's like, there's a path to success in life. It's called graduate high school, get a college degree, then you figure it out. Right? And that was the path, period. You know? And, and things have changed. And some people were raised that way, like the degree matters. And the reality of it is, is we're in the information age, right? We're, we're in this space of, of time in society where you have access to a great deal of knowledge.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  I mean, if you really think about it, it's like, what's holding anybody back from being highly successful in life is not knowledge. It's actually something else. And the only access, I mean, back in the day, it's like the only access that you had to that knowledge was to go to some university and find someone to pour into you. Well, not anymore. That knowledge is everywhere. You can get it anytime. So, you know, obviously things have changed. And so just remember that, right? Your wife might just be looking at this from the perspective of what she wishes she would have done, how her family sees education as this, you know, sign of success. And it's this social badge. And if you don't end up with a degree, it looks bad, right? Like, who knows, right?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  But there's, there's a lot more to it than just, I doubt she's sabotaging your son, right? She's operating from a perspective, like you said, what's best for her kid.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  She cares about her kid. You just see it differently. Did, do you have a college degree, Kip? I don't actually know.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  I do.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  And what's your degree in?

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Computer information systems.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  So you're actually using your degree. So that's, that's cool. That's good.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  I don't have a college degree. And at the risk of sounding pretentious, I make more money than most of the attorneys and CPAs that I know that have a four year or a six year degree.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  So I went to half a semester of college. I dropped out of college after about two months because some English teacher told me I had to do a book report on some bullshit book. And I asked her about it after class and she couldn't explain to me why I had to do a book report on that. I said, I'm outta here. Like, I'm not here to do book reports on The Hobbit. Sorry. Like, not interested in that. Like, I'm here actually to develop real world, applicable information. And then I got a letter 30 days later from the school and said, you've lost your academic scholarship. And I haven't looked back.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  So why is it the, the degree that matters? It's, it's not like, but, but I think it's important that you know, she has your child's best interest at heart. So I don't, I, I think we ought to be aware of that. And then just ask really good questions from her and from him and, and teach and guide and instruct and lead. But man, I know, I have, I have friends who are plumbers and.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  And handyman. And electricians and mechanics. Who are awesome, like they're living great lives and they're. Uh, making good money and they've, they've got businesses and they've got freedom and flexibility. They're leading their families. Well, that's all I want for one of my kids.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. Well, isn't that funny how that changes? I'm sure that was for you too. It's like, you know, the older I get, it's like. It, I used to have this ambitious, kind of these ambitious worldly things that you wanted for your kids. And then as you get older, you're like, I just want them to marry a good woman. And, and be happy and, and how that looks like on paper, I actually don't care as much anymore. Right? Because I realized like the, the fine thing, or the critical things that I care about more now is, is who they're married. Right? And them having healthy kids and, you know, maybe traveling and experiencing life is, is like top of the list, you know?

• 40:07Speaker 00

  There's, there's actually, there was a study, I'll have to find it and what it, what it was, but there's actually three predictors of success for a young person. And it's really simple. It's like the lowest bar to entry possible. Okay. Here's what it is. Number one, graduate high school.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Number two, get a full-time job.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Number three, don't have a child out of wedlock.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. They pull that off. Probability of success is high.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  And what is success? Well, being better than the, the median in this case, right? Like that's it.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  If you, if you get a full-time job, if you graduate high school, if you don't have a child out of wedlock.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  Your likelihood of having success, financial success in life is significantly greater than the average.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  So, and I'm not, and I'm not going to say that you can't have success if you don't meet one of those criteria, but it's far less likely.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. All right. Nolan Truitt, he, he's, he's attacking me in his question here. He says, where's the line between being prepared protector and being a paranoid guy with a basement full of freeze dried food?

• 41:27Speaker 00

  What's the problem with a basement full of freeze dried food?

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Dude, of course I have tons of free. It's so I could go backpacking whenever I want.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  Well, it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a false dichotomy, right? Like what's wrong with having a basement full of freeze dried food? That's frigging awesome. I, I want that. I've got some, but not to the degree.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  So, no, I don't, I don't see anything wrong with that. Well, okay, but in the spirit of the question, what I do see something wrong with. Is if you're, if you're neglecting your other responsibilities and obligations. So I had somebody in my life years and years ago, probably. 15 years ago. Who was very successful financially, had a beautiful, lovely family. And I don't know all the story. I don't know what happened, but this individual went off the deep end. Where they started digging holes in the desert and putting conexes in there. And building bunkers and shelters and spending all of their family's money on.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  Uh, emergency supplies and medical equipment and they stopped working. Uh, then they started living off of just the bare minimum possible. Uh, so they could pour more fully into that. That's a problem, man. That's a problem. That, that's, that's an obsession. That might even be an addiction at that point. And so I think the line is.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Well, there's a, there's a scriptural reference and it says, by their fruits ye shall know thee. Right? And if you're not taking care of your family, if you're not. Meeting your, your financial obligations and responsibilities. Uh, if you find yourself overly distracted by some of these things, instead of pouring into what matters, which is your family and your community and. Your career advancement, then that's an issue. But does having a basement full of freeze dried food equate to that? Maybe, but also maybe not. You know, maybe you do siphon off a portion of your income and every month and you're like, hey, we're going to buy some more food supplies.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  Now, do you need 73 years of freeze dried food storage? No, but do you need? A couple of years worth? Yeah. I don't think that's a bad idea. I mean, I remember when I was young. Uh, my ex-wife, uh, she was actually really good at this side of things. She would can things. She would do food preservation. She siphoned off some of our income to put into, uh, food storage, freeze dried food. She was wonderful at that. And then there were times where money was really tight. And I remember saying to her, I'm like, hey, look, we have like $300. If that for a budget for the month. Like for food.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  That's, that's literally all that we have. And she's like, how am I going to make this work? I'm like, I don't know, but you gotta, that's all we have right now.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Freeze dried for dinner, baby.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  That's what it was. Bro, it was. It was canned peaches.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  I know. That's good food. That's not freeze dried food. That's like legit stuff.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Well, that, but that's what preparing means. Like, that's why you do that. So it was P, it was canned peaches. It was meat that her family had shot. Um, and, and we had, and they gave us some. It was rice and it was beans. And I did this in the very early years of my financial planning practice. And bless her heart, you know, she, she was responsible for that. And I'm saying that in a good way, like she, she's the one that made that work. While I was out there trying to build my financial planning practice. Yeah, we were eating beans and rice and canned peaches. But. Yeah. That was awesome. And it wasn't doomsday. It was.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  I didn't, it was lack of payday.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  And so, yeah, you should, you should have all that stuff in place. Uh, but when it, when it starts to become a detriment to your other obligations, that's where I would say the line is.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I would, let me know if you agree with this. Like one thing I, I think. When guys get into this too much, like doomsday-ish. Uh, maybe too heavily into prepping is they fail to live today. Right? They're, they're jeopardizing almost the moment of experience and joy. Um, at a paranoia of what might happen. And so I, I, what, what's your thoughts around that? Like it, that comes to mind for me when I think about people that are overly obsessive is like they've stopped living. Uh, today they, they probably don't enjoy Timmy's basketball or football game. They're probably not like experiencing life in the moment. As much because of the fear of the future.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I would agree, but I, I mean.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  As a man. You really don't get to enjoy life a hundred percent of the time.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  So the, the counter argument is, well, if all it was, was just enjoyment, then we wouldn't be doing our jobs either.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. We're not being prepared.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  And that's the spirit of the question. Like, how do you find the balance? You just have to experiment and play with it. And you know, the beauty of it is that once you've saved. A year, 18 months, two years of food storage, or you have, you know, ammunition and I've got my ammo right here. Shotgun shells and 22s and, um, and you've built up a skillset. It's, it's front end loaded, so it becomes easier over time. Um, and you just need to get gradually replace things, but. I don't know what, I don't know what the balance is between enjoying life, but also making sure that you're saving and planning for a rainy day.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  Um, other than you just need to experiment with it and figure out what's good for you and what works for you, what works for your people. But yeah, it's tough. It's tough. You gotta find that balance. You gotta strike that balance.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  All right, Hector Villanueva. My ex-wife and I split custody at my house. There are standards, chores, bedtimes, limited screen time. At hers, there are none. My kids are starting to see me as the bad guy. Do I hold the line or ease up so I don't lose them?

• 48:12Speaker 00

  No, I don't think you ease up.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  What I, what I would ask and what I would question is how you're administering the discipline, the, the, the boundaries. That, that's probably where, if I had to guess, that's probably where you might be going wrong to some degree. Cause men can oftentimes be tyrants. We're so bought into the cause of discipline or, you know, structure or boundaries that we become tyrannical about it. And instead of being a tyrant, ask yourself, what is the purpose of this? Right? And so, uh, last weekend, my youngest son was with me, we were hanging out and it was nine 30, that's his bedtime, nine 30. And he's like,

• 48:59Speaker 00

  dad, can I stay up for five minutes longer? Cause we were watching a movie together. If I said, no, nine 30 bedtime, do it, be disciplined. I would be the bad guy. If I said, yeah, bud, let's get through this last scene. And then we're, we're going to put you to bed. Then that's not tyrannical, that's boundaries with nuance. And that's where I think a lot of guys can do better is, hey, what's the nuance here? Or why are you doing it? And even being able to articulate why, well, dad, what, I don't want to go to bed. Why do I, why do I have to go to bed and the older brothers are staying up later? Well,

• 49:40Speaker 00

  bud, it's because I care about you. It's because I want you to wake up and have lots of energy because tomorrow we're going on a hike or we're going to play and we're going to have a long day tomorrow. We're traveling. And so I know that it doesn't feel comfortable to want to go to bed right now when you want to stay up late, but I'm looking after what's going to happen tomorrow. And that's part of what my job is as a man, is not looking at today, but looking at it over the long term. And you start having these types of conversations with nuance. Like you don't need to be so rigid in your rules that you just become tyrannical, that you become Hitler in their eyes. It, it like, again, what, what is it that you're trying to do by administering these rules? You're trying to teach them discipline.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  You're trying to get them healthy. You're trying them, trying to get them to understand boundaries. Okay. So look at it through that lens instead of always looking at it as like, nope, I'm the man who has to administer discipline. If I don't do it, nobody else will. It sounds, it sounds crazy, but I've done that. I'm sure you Kip have done that too. And I think we can just lighten up a little without letting go of our boundaries. I'm not telling you to lighten up where you remove boundaries. I'm just saying chill, chill a little. It's going to be okay.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'd ask yourselves, you know, his, his closing question, do I hold the line or ease up so I don't lose them? Maybe a question for you to consider is what might you be doing to lose them? Or what are you doing not to? Like, boundaries are boundaries. The other, this might be a whole other question. You know, are you withholding boundaries? Sure. Okay. What are you doing to, to strengthen your relationship with your kids? It may have to or may not have anything to do with the boundaries. It might have everything else to do with, are you, are you trustworthy? Are you pouring into that? Are you seeking to understand them? Are you meeting them at their level? Do you understand what's happening

• 51:39Speaker 01

  in their life? Right? Like, losing your kids or losing, and I'd say it this way, losing influence with your children, um, is less about the boundary and a lot more to do with a lot of other stuff. And so just maybe ask yourself, what are you doing to build your relationship with your children?

• 51:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would agree with that. Absolutely.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right. Um, I'm going to jump around a little bit because we're running out of time. All right. Shane McAllister, I got passed up over a promotion that went to a guy 10 years younger who I trained. I've given this company 14 years. Is loyalty to an employer a virtue anymore? Or am I just being a sucker? I love all these false dichotomy questions.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  I don't think it's a false dichotomy. I think you're being a sucker.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Loyalty is a contract, bro.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  And the minute the other party doesn't honor the contract.

• 52:41Speaker 00

  I'm out.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  It's out. Yeah. For them and you, by the way.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  Because that's what.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  They'll fire you in a second.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  If that's what people think. They think loyalty is just one party's responsibility. No, dude. Loyalty is a contract. Employment is a contract. Kip, if you hire me and you say, Ryan, I want you to do X, Y, and Z. And in exchange, I'll pay you X for those services. That's it. Like there's, there's nothing, you didn't agree to anything else?

• 53:21Speaker 00

  I didn't agree to anything else. I didn't say I'd stay with you for a certain period of time. You didn't tell me you'd keep me for a certain period of time. You just said, if you do X, Y, and Z, I will pay you X. Period. Like there's no, there's nothing else in that at all. There's nothing implied. There's nothing suggested. There, there, there's nothing above and beyond what you think that person said. There's nothing. Now, if you said, Ryan, I'll pay you X if you do X, Y, and Z for the next 20 years. Okay, that's different. But there's no employment contract that says that. So you're being a sucker.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. A hundred percent. This is why I tell guys who are employees, even if they're working for the greatest company in the world, you better be out there networking. You better be out there creating new connections. You better be out there adding value into other people's lives. Because that employer will end the contract the minute it's not beneficial for them. And by the way, I don't hate that. That doesn't bother me. But you could also end the contract because look, if you said, hey, well, I found a new job, you, you could end it today. And if they said, hey, we found somebody who did it, who's going to do, who we think is going to do a better job, like your subordinate or the guy you trained. Where

• 54:49Speaker 00

  in the contract does it say they can't do that? So we as men need to get out of this old school level of thinking of like, well, I just want to be loyal. No, you want to be an idiot.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  No. Yeah. And I don't think it's that. I mean, obviously you're being extra harsh because you're trying to fire up Shane here, right? But like, um, the reality of it is, I think most of us do it because it's comfortable and it's easy, right? Well, I'm being loyal. No, no, no. You're being, you're playing it easy. You're playing it safe. And you think it's safe by, um, sticking around and grinding it out and not disrupting what you're doing. And, and we throw loyalty on it to kind of virtual signal and make us feel, make it feel good about the decision, I think in most cases. Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  I don't think I was being hard. Was I being harsh?

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it, it could be that. Maybe he's being idiot. Maybe he's not, right? Like they're, they're obviously, we don't know all the details in this circumstance, but like, I, I think the main thing for Shane to consider is just because you've worked somewhere for 14 years, doesn't mean you're actually providing more value. That's the other thing that I, I'm a huge anti advocate. I, I, or let me say it this way. I am against seniority. I, I actually, from a, from a corporate business perspective, if you're here longer, by default, you make more. No. If you're providing more value, absolutely.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  So if you're there for 14 years, you better be damn well better at your job after 14 years than someone off the street. And it would be stupid business for me not to hire someone that could do the job just as good as you off the street to replace you. That's bad business too. So make sure, my, my call to action to Shane is make sure that you're not thinking, well, I've been here for 14 years, so thus I provide value. No, dude. Are you providing more value than you did before? Be careful that you're not being lazy and sitting back and going, well, I've been here for so long and this company can't run without me because I've been here. It's like, no, you just being around for a long time

• 57:03Speaker 01

  doesn't necessarily mean you're providing value to the company. So be very careful that you're not like operating in this space at like this younger guy and doesn't deserve it because you've been around longer. Maybe he's better than you. And you need to, you know, check yourself as well.

• 57:18Speaker 00

  Better than you or the same and cheaper? Like there's a lot of variables, right?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Totally.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  One thing that comes to mind. Okay. So that's fair. Like I said, being an idiot and you said, that's harsh. Like that, that's fair. Maybe he's not being an idiot, but he's being.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Not completely an idiot.

• 57:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, but he's being a little, a little naive, let's say. Um, a, an employee's contract renews to the degree of how often he's paid. So if I, if you hire me, Kip, and you say, I will pay you $80 an hour to do this thing. How often does my contract renew?

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Well, once I've paid for your services, that means.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Every hour.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  You've done your job and I pay you, right?

• 58:11Speaker 00

  The contract, the contract renews every hour.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  That's the answer. If you say to me, hey, Ryan, I will pay you, uh, this much for six months. If you do these things, how often does the contract renew?

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Every six months.

• 58:33Speaker 00

  So employment contracts typically are either salaried or hourly, and let's just assume they're hourly for the sake of argument. You renew your contract every hour. I hope you know that.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  So if at some point I come to you as an employer and I say, hey, Kip, you, you did X, Y, and Z for the last hour, but, and here's your $80, but we've decided to go a different route. I'm not a breach of contract. I paid you $80 an hour for the thing that you said you would do. And I'm in no breach of contract on that.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  So that's something to consider as well is your contract renews more often than you think it does. And it works both ways. And I'm not saying it's bad. I might kind of make it sound as if employment is wrong. I'm not. I'm just saying you've got to know that your employment contract renews as often as you get paid. So be aware of that.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, one thing I used to do at my last job, every new hire, after they'd been working for roughly 30 days, I'd have an interview with all the new hires. And I would sit down with them. I'm like, how's it going? Are you getting what you need? You know, kind of, you know, get a pulse of, of how they're feeling about the, the job. And then one question I asked that ended up being so powerful to me, and I'd ask them, I'd say, are you winning?

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  And some employees would go, I think so. I, you know, I, my boss, my boss, I'm like, oh, hold on. And this, this is why I asked this question, because I, I want them to look at their employment differently. I said, really quick, you need to know, this is your career, not your boss's career, not the company's career. This is your career. So I want you to shift your mindset. You need to know if you're winning or not. And if you're, and if you don't know, demand it of your immediate manager. Hey, how do I know I'm winning? Right? What do I, and then you tell him what you need to know and what

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  you need to ensure you are winning. You have to own it. Don't be passive in it and let someone else own it for you. And, and we all need to have that mindset around our jobs. And, and I love the framing that you use earlier. It's like, it's a contract. So you, someone hires you, it's like, you should know what your customer needs from you to feel good about the contract. And if you don't, you better figure that shit out. So you can show up powerfully and ensure that you're going to be successful.

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I would just add that your customer is your, your boss in this situation that we talked about this last week. Got the people who are employed, don't always acknowledge that. Your customer is who hired you. That's who you have an agreement and contract with. So if I'm hired by you, Kip, to work to do a presentation, let's say for ABC company, my client is not ABC company. That's your, your client's ABC company. I'm working for you. Your client's ABC company. My client is you. And so I better get very clear on what you are looking at from me, so that I can service you, my client, the best, the most effectively.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. And if I want to change the contract, what do I do? Hey, Ryan, up front. Yeah, I start renegotiating. Right. Hey, my expectation, I would like to renegotiate my contract with you, AKA a raise or whatever, over the next 12 months. Yeah. What is required from my perspective for you to feel good about it? What are the guidelines? When are we going to check, check base to ensure that we're progressing the right place and etc? And guess what happens if you're my employer and then you bait and switch on me, or you change the tune and go, oh, we're not going to do it. Or we're not. And then I'm like, okay, well, that doesn't work for me. We had an agreement, we talked about this, and I'm

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  now no longer going to work here. And, and by the way, this is, you know, why employers take advantage of employees? Because employees don't own their careers.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  Well, they don't have options.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  And we have this false sense. Yeah. And we have this false sense of like, oh, I'm now beholden to whoever's paying my paycheck. Right? Versus you assertively owning that. Right? And, and preparing yourself to go to market, stay networked and all these other things. So you're valuable, you know, outside of your current job.

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  If, if Order of Man went away today, for whatever reason, legislation, rumors, social media change it, like if it went away today, I'd have a job this afternoon, making good money this afternoon.

• 1:03:28Speaker 00

  Because I realize that there's a risk here. And I, I've built an incredible network over 11 years where I could make a handful of calls and I could start having, at the risk of sounding pretentious, I could have people start fighting over me to come work with them.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  Because I'm not content with where things are. I'm always looking at what opportunities are available. And the same is true with, with this guy. It's like, you know, you, you've put 14 years in, I commend you for that. That's awesome. But loyalty is not a requirement of a contract. I've never, I've never signed a contract that says you, we require loyalty.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Minimum of 14 years. Yeah.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  I've only ever done contracts that say, we will pay you this if you do this for, and here's your hourly rate, or here's your annual salary. There's no loyalty ever mentioned in that. It's just business. So treat it that way. Now, I think personal relationships are quite a bit different. You know, that not only is there some loyalty required, I think it's implied, right? You, you even think in, in a marriage ceremony, what do they say? Till death do us part. There's the contract.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  There's the timeframe. Till death do us part. That's the terms of the contract. Are you in or are you out?

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. All right, Matt, you good on questions? Or you want to cover one more?

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  No, let's, let's wrap it up. We've got some more from last week and from this week. So we'll save those for the following week and we'll keep asking, or answering all the questions that are asked.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, sounds great. You know, one thing that come to mind for me, it's like, you know, I'm thinking about Dustin, right? His question earlier about, you know, self-improvement dozens of times. I've tried this over and over, right? And I've experienced that in my life. I'm, I'm sure many men have experienced this where they have a desire to be a better versions of them, of themselves. They have a desire to get their fitness in check. They have a desire to be a better father or a better husband. And we didn't talk about it much today necessarily, but like, that's what we do in the IC, right? Is these frameworks to generate consistency in what we do. We have the accountability structure by being part of the battle team. This is what we do. So if you find yourself like Dustin, constantly

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  struggling, right, to make these improvements in your life, and you keep struggling over and over again, don't wait until Jan. 1, like we're all tempted to do. Start making those adjustments now. There is no someday. There's no guarantee that the new year's going to go as well. And so start acting now and, and start showing up powerfully. Start getting in the reps in way before the year ever ends. So to learn more, go to theironcouncil.com, sign up and as always, connect with Michler on X and the Instagram, at Ryan Michler. And see the new podcast studio on YouTube. How's that?

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  It looks pretty good. If I do say so myself. I feel really comfortable. Sometimes I'm just kind of like really casual and relaxed. This is nice. I like this. So I've got a few little upgrades to do in the studio, but it's coming along. So yeah, definitely check it out on YouTube. And then we've also got our War Room kit. Maybe you can see right now. I don't have my computer in front of me, but I believe it's August 14. It should be the Wednesday. Is that right? Wednesday, October 14 at 8:00 PM Eastern. Is that right?

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  October 14, 8:00 PM Eastern time. Yes. So Wednesday.

• 1:07:12Speaker 00

  So make sure to check that out. That's coming out in a couple of weeks, October 14, free. We're going to be talking about five fears that every man needs to overcome. So check that out. October 14, 8:00 PM Eastern. Go to orderofman.com/warroom. All right, guys. Kip, I appreciate you. Gentlemen, thanks for the questions. Hopefully we gave you some things to, to consider, some things to ponder and chew on a little bit. And we'll be back on Friday. Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.