Aging Bodies, Defiant Children, and Rejecting Gossip | ASK ME ANYTHING

This episode of Ask Me Anything tackles the real-life challenges men face as they age, lead families, navigate friendships and raise children. Ryan and Kipp discuss making peace with physical decline, giving teenagers room to develop independence, and questioning popular self-help advice. They also explore how to rebuild trust after betrayal, what masculine leadership looks like when raising daughters, and how to manage anger without repeating the patterns of our fathers. The conversation closes with a deeply personal discussion about lessons inherited from fathers, the danger of confusing exhaustion with productivity, and finding a healthier balance between work, relationships and life. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Weekly Recap & Staying on the Path 02:51 - Wholesome Hero: Training for Real Life 10:17 - Making Peace With an Aging Body 18:26 - Raising a Sixteen-Year-Old 24:22 - The Most Overrated Self-Help Advice 30:44 - Rebuilding Trust After Betrayal 38:43 - Protect, Provide & Preside With Daughters 43:34 - Anger Without Becoming Your Father 50:15 - What We Unlearn From Our Fathers 55:40 - The War Room: Restoring Order Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This idea of littleness where it's like one little thing goes wrong and every the whole plan falls apart. Dude, okay, so you can't work your bicep. Get, get, get abs, bro. Get a, build your chest, build your quads, build your calves, build your neck, build your shoulder, do something else. Stop saying I can't just because one little thing didn't work out right for you. And by the way, ironically, that's going to be the thing that gets you back, gets you back in the game fully faster than anything else.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Kip, what's up, man? So great to see you as we close out the, uh, the weekend or the week. Sorry. I was going to say close out the weekend, but as we close out the week, it's good to do these at the end of the week and recap what we've been thinking about and what's been on our minds and what's been on the minds of the guys who tune in.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Amen to that. It, I've been studying a lot of Napoleon Hill of late and this idea of drifting is present on my mind a lot. And what does drifting look like? And how easy it is, right? For us to drift. And, and so I, I love what you said is like, you know, recap our week. Why? Because I feel at least, and I'm sure I could do better, that are, but our weeks are, are packed with things that are the opposite of drifting, right? Whether it's us being on our battle team calls and having empower, powerful conversations, holding guys accountable or our all hands calls on Fridays. They're just, they're, they're ways by which we're staying on the path.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, just grateful, man, for this relationship, but also, you know, what you've created in the IC and, and how it keeps me, you know, kind of centered on what's important.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it, we did, we did that call this morning and we talked about, um, overcoming basically integrity gaps or restoring trust in relationships, platonic, professional, romantic. And it's really powerful. You know, we didn't have very many guys on the call relative to the way we normally do. And I think that has to do, it's a byproduct of it being like the last few weeks of the summer for a lot of people. They're out getting their last, you know, hurrah's before they go back to school and get their kids in sports and all those kinds of things. Sorry, I'm trying to move some technology here. We're rebuilding and redoing. So, um, anyways, it's, it's really cool to be able to get on the call and, you know, obviously I host those calls and

• 2:21Speaker 00

  then you host one of those calls in the afternoon every Friday. But these guys share just as much relevant information with me as I think we do with them. I walk away from there edified and uplifted. I'm like, oh, man, I need to take notes and I need to do this and I need to do that. So it's actually pretty cool, man. I love it. So it's exciting stuff. Well, should we dive into the, um, the wholesome segment for, for this week?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  This, this one was your idea, so I'll let you lead it off and then give some commentary and then I'll fill in with my commentary if I have anything else important to say. I always have something to say. It's not, it's really just a matter of whether or not it's worth listening to.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Well, and it's funny because like even now I'm like, well, I wasn't there. So we're just regurgitating, right? Things that we've seen on the socials, but for a lot of people that, you know, you may have heard, uh, just recently there was an active shooter situation up at an In-N-Out Burger. Um, was it in Twin? Small town Idaho. How's that?

• 3:21Speaker 00

  No, it's in Aurora. I think it was Aurora.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Aurora?

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's where that guy years ago shot up in the movie theater at, at Batman, I think it was. He came in with-

• 3:32Speaker 01

  That's Colorado. Aurora, Colorado.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm sorry. I, I, oh, I'm thinking about a different, another situation. Sorry. My bad.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this is active shooter situation, three killed, um, at an In-N-Out Burger. Um, and you know, guy with a, with an AR, uh, killed a girl. You know, there's videos circulating him walking up to a car with two people in the car and just shooting through their, through their front windshield. And, um, during that moment, there was a civilian and an off duty highway patrol officer that, uh, returned fire. Um, I don't know, I don't think they actually killed him, but they deterred him and he ended up like leaving the cir, the situation, right?

• 4:22Speaker 01

  And stopped attacking people and then supposedly took his own life, uh, shortly thereafter. And so wholesome segment, I think is really around, you know, maybe the off duty officer, right? Like he didn't have to, uh, participate in, and, and, and, and go after this active shooter, but also the civilian, right? That was, um, had a, was carrying a firearm and, you know, deterred the shooter from shooting more people.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I think it's, you know, the response time for police isn't always as, as good as we'd like it to be. And I know there's going to be a lot of talk about people shouldn't have access to firearms and yada, yada, yada. I mean, that, that's a moot point because we have a protected right to be able to carry and protect ourselves. So we, we can discuss that, but that's not going away anytime soon. And I'll, and I'll make sure I fight against that. But I will say, if you're going to carry a firearm, obviously make sure you're trained. And one of the things that we've seen in this situation is this guy, this civilian who subdued this individual, uh, post training videos on his Instagram account of him training in full

• 5:33Speaker 00

  military kit. And I, I haven't really dug into his Instagram stuff, but I imagine that he's got a, a following of people who are loyal to what he's doing because they believe in it. And then I imagine he's got an entirely different subset of people who mock him, who ridicule him, who tell him he's stupid, or he'll never need that, or he's just, the term you often hear is LARPing, live action role play. We talked about NPCs last week, non-player characters where they're just trying to be this, this persona, whatever it is on, on social media. And I think it's important that we not get the two conflated just because it's easy to be cynical about

• 6:14Speaker 00

  social media. And, and I am, you know, most people will say, well, you only see like half the story on Instagram and all these people posturing and peddling their goods and services and trying to make themselves better than they are. But that doesn't mean that they aren't very well qualified to do, to, to utilize their skillset in life. And so props to this guy for putting good information out into the world with what he's sharing on his social media profiles, sharing something he's exciting, excited about, but then actually putting it to use in real life. And there's, there's a phrase, I don't know if you've heard this, Kip, this phrase of being

• 6:54Speaker 00

  too online. Usually when you hear it, I hear a lot about it from, uh, a, a political perspective, even culturally, you have these dorks who are too online and they're not in the real world. And so their ideologies are all wrapped up in the cesspool that is social media. You also hear, go touch grass. The, the people who spend too much time online are out of touch with reality and their ideas become nonsensical because they're just feeding on bad idea after bad idea after bad idea. But this individual obviously trains for effectiveness and put it to use and props to him for being a hero. I mean, there's no other way to say it. Being capable, being

• 7:37Speaker 00

  qualified, having the skillset, having the tools and then utilizing it, uh, for the protective out, the, the, the outcomes of other people. So wholesome hero of the day. Well done. Good sir.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And willingness to be courageous. I think he took shots. The, the shooter returned shots at him. You know, when he confronted him, like, that's courageous, man. He didn't need to do that. He could easily hopped in his car and drove off or stayed on the other side of the building. And so, you know, props to him for being courageous and props to him for, uh, like you said, training, right? And being prepared, you know? So then that way, when the opportunity came, you know, he was, he was effective. So.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Well, and people will say like, oh, the odds of you ever needing to do that are so low. Yeah. But they're also catastrophic. And also not to mention, jujitsu is a great example of this. People say, oh, you'll never get into a fight. Probably, hopefully, that, that would be the goal. Uh, but if you need, if you do, then you have the skill. But even outside of that, I think what most people forget is sometimes the training is not the only benefit of the thing that you're doing. So doesn't jujitsu make you more disciplined in every other aspect of your life? Doesn't it make you tougher and more resilient? Doesn't it improve the quality of your life because you're likely going to be in better shape than if you weren't doing it?

• 9:03Speaker 00

  So there are ancillary benefits that people don't talk about because they're like, well, you'll never need to use that. Yeah, probably not. But there's a whole lot of other benefit that I have. Same thing with training, same thing with hunting. The reality of me being out of food and having to go secure and procure my own source of, of, of protein is very unlikely. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely to? Probably not. But there's a whole lot of other benefits that I get from being involved with hobbies that I enjoy just because they're enjoyable.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, the jujitsu one, the, and the martial arts one is a, a very interesting study because statistically, I don't know what the numbers are, but those that train a martial art are less likely to get in a fight.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because they know the consequences and the stakes.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. And, and they're not egotistical. They don't need to prove anything. There's a level of confidence. So they don't get fired up or kind of drawn into a confrontation as easily.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. And they also know that a guy that maybe they have 40 or 50 pounds on them can still neutralize them with their body and their limbs. So it's like, you never know, you never know who you're confronting. Be careful. Be careful.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yep. All right. Should we get in some questions?

• 10:30Speaker 00

  Let's do it, man. Let's get after it.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  All right. Yep. All right. Wes Talbot. I'm 44 and just noticed I can't do the things with my body I could five years ago. It's messing with my head more than I expected. How do you make peace with a body that's declining while you still, while you're still supposed to be leading a family?

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the first thing is just being realistic. Of course, I'm 45 and it takes me a little longer to actually get out of bed. My body is usually stiffer, more stiff than it has been in the past. Recovery doesn't happen so quickly. Shedding weight doesn't happen as fast. I'm more susceptible and prone to injuries, but I'm 45. I'm not like on my deathbed either. But I think the thing that we can do is just to stay in shape to the degree that you can and do something that works for you. So one small example of that, I don't do deadlifts with a, with a straight bar anymore. Because why? I don't, I'm not

• 11:37Speaker 00

  competing. I'm not doing some sort of Olympic lift competition. So when I do deadlifts, I always do them with a trap bar. Because it just works better. It's more aligned. It doesn't put as much pressure or strain on my back. I'm less likely to round my back. And it just works better for me. Low impact sports are gonna be better for somebody as they're getting older and aging. So I don't really think that you need to feel bad that you can't do the things that you once did. But I would also challenge a lot of men, and I don't know if it's like this for, I think it was Wes. A lot of us just say like, oh, we're not as good as we once were, because we're not doing the things that we once were.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  So my youngest son came in, excuse me, my oldest son the other day, and he had his shirt off. He walked in the house and had his shirt off. And he's looking like lean and strong and jacked. I'm like, dude, you look good. He's like, yeah. And then I started thinking about what he's doing. Well, he's playing lacrosse every day. He's lifting every single day. Granted, his metabolism is better than mine. But he's eating fairly clean. He's doing wall ball with lacrosse. He's roughhousing with his friends. He's active all day long. Well, what am I doing? Well, I'm sitting in this, on this computer. You know, I'm watching, watching TV, you know, like, hey, sitting in the recliner, reading a book. You know, some of these things are good in and of themselves. But I'm not nearly that active.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  So is the problem that we're just getting older? Or is the problem that our behavior isn't what it once was? Because I'd argue that 44 is not, I mean, I see some guys at the gym who are probably 50. And I'm like, dude, I wish I had a physique like yours. Because they're getting after it. So be careful what you're attributing it to as well.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  What would you say, Ryan, around this? It's messing with my head more than I expected. Kind of the mental side of this.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  I think that's a faulty expectation that you have. You know, I think all anxiety and stress and all these things, not all, but, but the majority of it comes from a really, and even disappointment and letdown, comes from a really skewed perception of reality. And I try to operate in reality. Yeah, the reality is I'm, I'm 45. So I need to be more careful with what I eat. I would love to have, my favorite burger is the double Western bacon cheeseburger at Carl's Jr. I would love to pound one of those right now, and it will taste so good. And then I'll be done for the rest of the day. I'll be fat and bloated and tired and sluggish. So that's a decision that I just have to make. So instead

• 14:16Speaker 00

  of messing with your head that you can't do the things that you used to do, maybe start thinking about how you can replace those and make it a game. Like, how, like, are you tracking your calories? How, how can you eat healthy? Can you learn to cook? You know, that's something that I've mocked publicly on this podcast, cooking. And I actually really enjoy cooking now. It's fun. It's a challenge. It's like, oh, I made a dinner last night. The kids were like, this is a bad one, Dad. I'm like, yeah, it kind of was. But the night before, they're like, Dad, this one's awesome. I love it. It's fun. So instead of dwelling on what you can't do, start thinking about what you can. And I don't think you can actively hold this messing with my head as you're actively working towards something that's significant and meaningful and enjoyable for you.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, nothing will check the ego when, when you have to, I don't like pivot a little bit. I remember three years ago, I hurt my bicep pretty, pretty bad. And man, I could not, it just wasn't getting better. Like, I stayed off of it. And it was just still aching when I trained. It ached when I went to the gym. But I didn't want to stop going to the gym. And I didn't want to stop working arms. And so I pivoted. And instead of curls with, you know, 30s and 35s, you know, I started doing century sets of 10s and 15s.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  You know?

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Or do some band work, or do some shoulder and forearm work, or triceps, you know, like, figure it out.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  And, and nothing will check your ego when, when you're over there sweating and grinding it out. And guys look at you and you have 10 pound little dumbbells. And you're like, ah, it's draining to pull it off. But it's miserable as hell. But, you know, it's, it's what's required based upon where we're at, you know? So maybe even let go a little bit of the identity of like, you know, you know, my value is based upon how, how I throw weights around. Maybe your value is, you know, how healthy you are, and taking care of your body, and being able to move, you know, effectively, and, you know, longevity in life, you know?

• 16:28Speaker 00

  I mean, I've thought that. I see guys that, you know, we, we go, when we go to the gym, we compare like, oh, that guy's benching 300, and I'm benching 255 or whatever. And so we compare. And then you see another guy, you're like, he's only benching 135. And you kind of joke, you know, in your head, hopefully just your head. And you're like, what a wimp, or whatever. And then, and then if you're mature about it, you might just say to yourself, well, he's in here. Or you might say, maybe, maybe he is doing 100 reps, and I'm only doing 10. Or, or maybe he's injured and he's recovering from an injury. But the thing that frustrates me quite often, is when guys are like, I hurt myself, and now I can't train. What are you talking?

• 17:07Speaker 01

  And then they just don't go.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  What are you talking? I hurt my bicep and I can't train. You hurt one muscle? And in your body, and you can't?

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Can't do legs?

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Or you can't have like, like have a jacked right arm instead of, you know, and maybe your left is weak. And like, what are you talking about? But this is what we talked about in the Iron Council the other day, this idea of brittleness. Where it's like, one little thing goes wrong, and every, the whole plan falls apart. It's like, dude, okay, so you can't work your bicep. Get, get, get abs, bro. Get a, build your chest, build your quads, build your calves, build your neck, build your shoulder, do something else. Stop saying I can't, just because one little thing didn't work out right for you. And by the way, ironically, that's going to be the thing that gets you back, gets you back in the game fully, faster than anything else.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Like, when I got hurt with my, my pectoral tendon, I kept going to training. Like, I would actually go to jujitsu class. And I would sit in the corner, and I would do box step ups, and I would do lunges, and I would do air squats, and I would do sit ups, and I'd do some overhead stuff with my right arm. And I would just watch people as I was doing my little body weight workout over in the corner. When I came back, I didn't really miss a beat. In fact, I might have actually been better because I was healthier.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  All right, Darnell Orsi. My son is 16. And everything I say to him lands wrong right now. I don't know if I'm losing him, or if this is just age. How do you keep showing up for your kids who's actively pushing you away?

• 18:54Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't know if he's actively pushing you away. That's it. That, I don't know the situation, but that to me, sounds like a stretch. He's 16. What he's actually doing, is he's trying to go away. He's not pushing you away. He's trying to find his own independence. Because that's what 16 year olds, normal 16 year olds, up until the relative ease of modernity do. That they go out and they find girls to spend time with, and they get involved in sports, and they hang out with their buddies, and they start working, and they start thinking about what, what the future looks like. Good, that's a good thing. So what I would do is I would just extend the leash out a little bit more

• 19:39Speaker 00

  than you are right now. So you've seen those leashes where you put your dog on it, and you can click and lock it at six feet, or it can go out to like 15 feet. Let, let go a little. It's okay, 16. You know, he's probably driving. That's another thing kids, younger kids don't do now. They don't get their license right away. I never understood that. Like, I got my license the day I turned, like, on my birthday, I went to the DMV and got my license and started driving. But I would, I would go into his world a little bit. I would try to give him some space, and let him make some decisions, and have some autonomy over his own life. And also, I would just realize that it's in his, it's

• 20:20Speaker 00

  in a guy's nature to rebel, to push away, to go out on their own, to take a few more risks. And I think that's actually healthy. But the biggest thing I would say as far as an anecdote to it, is go into his world, be involved in what he's involved with, ask him good questions, still maintain, you know, effective boundaries for the way the household will be run, and how he's expected to treat people in the household. And let it ride a little bit. Let it go a little. It'll be okay.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  What do you think Darnell means by, everything I say to him lands wrong? Is there something there for him to work on? If he feels like every comment is, is getting, is it just pushback? Or is, you know, I, I know we don't know. But what do you think he means there? And is there some counsel around the communication breakdown? And maybe, you know, every conversation results in an upset, maybe?

• 21:19Speaker 00

  Well, you talk about this often, the idea of compliance versus commitment. And when kids are younger, it's a whole lot easier before, especially for young boys, when their testosterone is pumping through their veins to get them to comply. You know, I could, I could just look at my youngest son wrong, and, um, and, and he'll, he'll comply. He'll do whatever I want him to. If I look at my son, my oldest son, the same way he was 18, he'll say like, what are you looking at?

• 21:50Speaker 00

  Like it's just the nature of it. So what I would probably suggest is as they get older and that testosterone starts pumping through their veins, rather than trying to direct or get your kids to comply with you, start trying to work on that buy-in. And you do that through trust. You do that through spending time with them, through getting involved in their world, like I just said. And also you get that through asking questions. You know, it's like, um, if he's not coming home on time, like, ask him some questions about what he thinks about it. Like, hey bud, you know, you've been late for the past two weeks when you come home at night and we have this curfew in place for a reason. But I'm curious where

• 22:35Speaker 00

  you land with that. Now, I'm not saying let your kids dictate the direction of your parenting, because too many people do that. But isn't it useful for you to understand? And maybe he's like, Dad, I don't think my curfew should be 10 o'clock on Friday night. Like, all my grades are good. I'm playing sports. I'm not getting in any trouble. And I just want to stay out with my friends until 11 o'clock. I mean, you can decide, like, is that a deal breaker? Is that a hard and fast rule? Or is that something as he's getting older? And maybe you think, you know what, like, his grades are good. And so maybe there's a conversation around, all right, bud. Well, look, I want you to have a little bit of more autonomy over your schedule. But in order for this 11 o'clock curfew to take place, let's talk about some ground rules for that. What do you think those should be? Well, I

• 23:20Speaker 00

  should keep my grades up. Yeah, I agree. Write it down. I agree. Grades up. What else? That I don't keep pushing past 11. Okay, so 11 is the hard and fast. Okay, what else? That I'm playing sports and I'm getting up on time and I'm handling my stuff at the house. And you write them all down. You're like, all right, I'll tell you what. Let's give this an experiment for 30 days. On Friday and Saturday night, you can stay out till 11 o'clock, provided you're meeting this criteria. And if you are, we'll extend it another 30 days. And if you're not, by your own admission, we're reining it back in.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's spot on. Well, and he may not understand why there's a curfew, right? And then by discussing it, he might go, oh, shit, I didn't know that my buddy's parents called you and they're coordinating with you to make sure that we all go to bed early because Tommy has football practice at 5:00 AM every morning. Or, you know what I mean? Maybe there's something on your son's radar that he doesn't even know about. And now by talking about it, he goes, oh, that makes more sense. I thought you were just being overly domineering parent. And so there's just power in that conversation, right?

• 24:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Cool. All right. Trent Holloway, quick one. What's the most overrated piece of self-help advice you hear in this space? And I'm assuming this space is in the manosphere.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Um, I've got a couple that immediately came to mind. One is that the hustle culture. I hate that. I hate the hustle culture. Just go out and work your butt off, like, do every, burn all the butt. Like, I don't know. I, maybe it's because I'm in a different position now. It's really easy for me to say, you know, when you're, when you're, have some financial resources and you've been successful to say, oh, yeah, I wish I wouldn't have worked so hard when I was younger. Well, it's, it's easy to say that when you're on the backside of it. But also, yeah, I would have taken more time off to explore, to travel, to have new experiences, to have new ideas. And I don't think I would have done the hustle

• 25:29Speaker 00

  and grind so much. So that's one. The other one that I hear, and I don't hear it as much anymore, so maybe we're making an impact here, is this idea of like, the zero F's mentality, meaning I don't care what, don't care about what anybody else thinks. I think that's horrible, horrible advice. I think the caveat to that is, don't care about what the wrong people think of you, but do care about what the right people think of you. Because that's accountability. Kip, I care about what you think about me. And because I care about what you think about me, I perform differently. Is that, is that a facade? Is that LARPing like we were talking about earlier? No, it's actually your presence in my life calling

• 26:10Speaker 00

  me to be better. The woman that you marry should actually provide the same thing. You should want to be a better man because she's in your life. You should want to be a better man because your children are watching you. So I, I think that you should care absolutely and deeply about what the right people think of you, because it'll lead you to improved behavior and performance.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, those are solid. I think those are solid. All right.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  Is there one that you, that you thought of?

• 26:43Speaker 01

  No, I can't think of one. I mean, right now, it just, I don't know. And it's because of my technical background. I just can't stand, it's not even in this space. I just can't stand a bunch of influencers with like, zero background in like, engineering and technology, having a strong opinion about the future of AI. It drives me mad. I can't stand it. And it's, and they use fear mongering to justify it. They're the experts in it. And I just think it's a bunch of hype. Don't get me wrong. There's value in it, but there's absolutely tons of hype. And we've seen this before. I've been through this multiple

• 27:24Speaker 01

  times in different spaces of tech. And, um, yeah, I just, it's annoying.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  I think you should, I think you should qualify everything, right? Regardless of what, where it comes from, if it's a credible or reputable source or not, I think you should always just take it with a grain of salt. You know, I listen to a lot of podcasts and there's podcasts I like, you know, I like things about Ben Shapiro, for example. And there's other things where I'm like, no, no, that's wrong. Because I listen to other, other things, you know? And, and what is interesting is a lot of the times, if you say, well, I listened to this person, or listen to that person, or I thought about this idea or that idea. You know, people will say, like, have your own ideas, or you're just a shill for whoever that is, or, like, I can't believe you'd embrace. It's like,

• 28:15Speaker 00

  no. We can listen to things and not accept it as reality. But, and there's certain things that I just won't, there's certain people, like Candace Owens is one of them. I just think she's a dumb human being. I just think she's dumb. I think she's very good at manipulating people. I think she's very good at presenting ideas in a way that riles up the lowest common denominator. But I think she's kind of a dumb human being. And so that's not a resource that I'm going to actually go to for credible advice. But I think somebody like Tucker, I think Tucker Carlson's actually very, very intelligent. I don't agree with a lot of the direction he's been going lately, but I'm still willing to listen to the individual

• 28:56Speaker 00

  because I think he's intelligent. And I'm curious, you know, it brings up ideas that maybe I haven't considered before, or want to ponder on. But I don't have to accept it just because I listen to it.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I love, I love that. And one, one way that I look at this is rarely is anyone sharing independent thought. Right? Like, think through the, the average arguments that people have. They're just regurgitating something that they heard from somewhere else. Why? Because they weren't there. Right? Just like us in our wholesome segment, right? We have an opinions about something. I wasn't there. So where did I get that information is? Well, I, someone else shared it. So I'm putting a lot of trust that what I saw was actually accurate. Maybe it wasn't. Who knows what? And so we're, but we latch on to it

• 29:48Speaker 01

  like it's truth. When reality, it wasn't even our knowledge anyway. And, but it aligns maybe with how we see the world. And so we, we treat it as truth and we regurgitate it. And so I just, I love to always remember that, like, most people don't know, and we're sharing ideas and thoughts. And hopefully, even you guys listening to us, you move to independent thinking. And it's not like, well, Ryan said, it's, oh, Ryan said this, this is how I feel about it.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Confirmation bias is what comes to mind. You know, people are always looking for validation of their idea. I mean, who knows? And I'm not saying this is true by any, who knows? Maybe that guy beats his wife. I don't know. Like, I have no idea.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Maybe he's a horrible dude. Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. I have no idea. All I know is I saw that little glimpse, and that was a good thing. And I approve of that. And I may or may not approve with the rest of his behavior. I have no idea. I, I'm not, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I, until I know otherwise. But, and I wouldn't want to like, even project that. I'm not projecting that on him. I'm just using that as an example. I have no idea.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, totally. All right. Marcus Feeney, I found out my best friend of 20 years has been talking behind my back to guys in our circle. Part of me wants to confront him. Part of me wants to quietly walk away. What actually rebuilds trust once it's broken like that? And is it even worth trying?

• 31:16Speaker 00

  I mean, I think it's worth trying if not for your own level of respect. You know, Kip, if there was things that you were saying behind my back to a closed circle, or even publicly, yeah, I would definitely address it.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Hey, Kip, I heard this thing. This goes back to our previous, previous day. Like, I don't need to assume. I don't know. So like, let me give you an example. So my youngest son was missing a Lego mini figure. And a day or two earlier, he had a friend over who was really admiring that Lego mini figure. And all of a sudden, he can't find it. And so my youngest son was like, Dad, I think he might have taken my Lego. I'm like, do you know he did? He's like, no.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  Have you seen him with it? No. I'm like, okay. You still might be right. He may have taken it. That's a possibility. What are you gonna do about it? And he's like, well, I'm gonna tell him. I'm like, what are you gonna tell him? Not to steal my things. I'm like, did he steal it? He's like, well, I don't know. I'm like, well, then probably you shouldn't tell him not to steal your things if you don't know he did it. What would be a better approach? And he's like, well, maybe I could just ask him. Yeah. Just ask him. And so he did. He asked him. He's like, hey, did you take? And the kid said, no. And maybe he's lying. We have no idea of knowing. But now, and I told him, I said, hey, look, just be aware, right? He said, no, you asked him. That's all you can really do. You can't prove anything.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  And so there's not really a whole lot you can do about it. But if he comes over, keep an eye on him and be aware. And if you start to see other things go missing, well, that becomes a trend and we're not gonna, we're not going to tolerate that. We'll pat him down as he leaves the house and make sure he didn't take anything from the house.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  That's not true. He won't do that. But the whole idea there is, is just to, just,

• 33:04Speaker 00

  just to be aware without making accusations. So when you go talk with your friend, instead of being accusatory, approach it from a level of curiosity. Hey, Kip, I heard from a couple of friends that maybe it's made some remarks about me or my past behavior, or maybe even something I shared in confidence with you. And rather than just like play the gossip game and do that, because I don't want to get into that, I figured I'd just come straight to the horse's mouth is, are there things that you're sharing with other people that are meant for you and me? Or is there something that you would like to share with me that, that I can improve or work on or know that maybe I'm not aware of?

• 33:43Speaker 00

  That's gonna do one of two things. Probably both. It's going to, when you, when you talk about how do you build trust? That's how you do it. For sure. Because I'm gonna respect a man who does that way more than a man who doesn't. And I would not feel less for him if he can't, in fact, I'd feel more highly of him if he did that.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  And it's also gonna put him on notice. Which is okay, too. Like, I'm not being accusatory. I'm coming at it with curiosity. But I'm watching your ass. And so that's good. People need to be checked because those are the boundaries that are in place. And if you keep stepping over the boundaries, then yeah, at that point, end it. But until you've had the conversation, I don't, I mean, just for your own self-respect, you should, you should call him up and be curious about what's happening.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Well, you care about what they think. Otherwise, you wouldn't have submitted this question. So if you care, then it needs to be addressed, right? For your own benefit. And what's great about this, Marcus, is you're serving them too.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  You really serve people when, when you have these conversations with them. Because they go, because Mark and I were, let's, let's just pretend your buddy's talking garbage.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  And you ask about it. I guarantee you walk away from that conversation, he's saying, yeah, I probably should not gossip as much as I do.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  I probably shouldn't do that. And, and so he's self-evaluating because you brought it up. So I think that's critical. The other thing I'd add to what you said, Ryan, is, and I call it own your story, or own your, own the lens before you go into the conversation. And it's not, and, and the lens is, one, what am I assuming? That may not be true. What judgments am I placing without the appropriate information? The other part is, what am I making it mean? Because I'll tell you right now, what you're making it mean is probably not what it means. So even if your buddy, buddy was talking garbage, you're making it mean what? He thinks I'm a moron. He disrespects me. He doesn't value me as a friend.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  All of that could not be true. And he could have still talked trash about you. Because most people, how do we handle gossip? Ryan comes to me and starts talking trash about someone. Most people don't go, hey, Ryan, don't, you shouldn't say that. Most people go, oh, yeah, I see that. Why? Because I'm being selfish in the moment, right? And I'm aligning with Ryan because it's uncomfortable to call Ryan out. And so I go along to get along. I might inject a few things for my own personal benefit. Meanwhile, I might still respect the guy that we're talking about.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  That's kind of how crazy humans are. And so you're probably making it a lot more dramatic than it really is. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't have the conversation. You absolutely should.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Should, of course.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  But the meaning that you've created is probably greater than, or off-target from really how your friend sees you.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Well, let me, let me paint a scenario that, that it actually might be. But you're making it mean something other. Now, I don't know, but I'm just saying, is, just stick with me. Is this a possibility, what I explained with you right now? So let's say you're, let's say you're drinking a little too, let's say your drinking is getting a little excessive. And you confide in your buddy. So let's say, I'll just use me as an example. Let's say, you know, I'm drinking, it's becoming a problem. People are noticing and I talk with you about it, my friend. And you're like, yeah, man, I've noticed. Everything good. And we have this conversation. And then you go to, let's say, another friend, a mutual friend of ours, Jay.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Matt Harrington. I call up Matt Harrington.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you're like, hey, Matt, I'm, I'm really worried about Ryan. Like, he's been drinking a lot more and we had a conversation. And he told me, you know, he's been stressed out and the relationship's not going well. And that's leading to his drinking. And I think we should really rally behind him.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  And then Matt calls me. He's like, hey, bro, I heard you're drinking too much. Kip told me you're drinking and I wanted to call you out and see like how he could help you. And I'm like, what the, I'm sorry, I'm trying not to swear. What the heck? Kip is talking about me? He's gossiping about me when, no. He was actually trying to rally the troops behind you. Now, is it appropriate? Ah, debatable.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  But is that a, is that a potential situation? Yeah, absolutely. And that's why you're not gonna go into it accusatory. The term that I really like is never attribute to malice what could be attributed to stupidity. And it might just be you just having good intentions, Kip, in this scenario. But maybe just being a little too loose with your lips. And that's different than you being malicious. So something to chew on a little bit there.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right. Salius Kemp. I've got a daughter, not a son. And honestly, a lot of what you teach feels built for raising boys. So what does protect, provide and preside look like when you're raising a girl instead?

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Do you think he's asking,

• 39:11Speaker 00

  how does he protect, provide and preside? Or how does he teach her some of the same skills?

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he's like, you know, based upon the movement of order of man, how does your message change when all I have is a daughter? Right? If, if, and he's kind of assuming that it changes. Let's be frank.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, I don't think it changes at all. In fact, I think it might be, I think it might be more important when you have daughters.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  You know, they're, they're, they're fair sex for a reason, you know? And, and they're, they're frankly, and I know women are not gonna like when I say this. I think some women probably would, but a lot won't. Is there more vulnerable than men?

• 39:53Speaker 00

  They're just more susceptible to bad stuff happening. Part of that is because of their physical stature. Part of that is because of our nature to maybe be, you know, more sexualized generally, to go after sometimes aggressively. I'm not condoning the behavior, but sometimes aggressively with what we want. And I also think on the behalf of women, it's a little bit of naivete as well. I think women can be very naive about the world and about men and their intentions. And so that puts them in a vulnerable position. So as a father of daughters, I think it's really important that you teach her how the world works, what is reality, not to be naive, not to be as vulnerable

• 40:36Speaker 00

  as she naturally might. And guard her, she is precious. She's beautiful and she deserves to be guarded and provided for and protected and safe. And what I found for boys and girls, by the way, like, yes, what we talk about is geared towards men and boys, absolutely. But it applies broadly. When you create an environment where you're seen as the protector, the provider and the presider, that gives the people in your life, boys, girls, your wife, friends, colleagues, coworkers, the opportunity to flourish.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  When she feels safe because you're consistent and because you're showing up in powerful ways and you're providing for her and you're, you're kind and you're gentle with her and you're patient with her. I can be a lot more, I can be rougher with my boys than I can with my daughter, for sure. But when a young woman sees that, it gives her permission to be herself, to, to actually be feminine. I think that's part of the problem with so many women who have emasculated, but masculinized, if that's a word, themselves, is they never had a man, whether it was their father or a husband and a partner, that actually was the man.

• 42:02Speaker 00

  And so they never got to be protected. They not, they never got to be lovely and beautiful and kind and empathetic and nurturing. Instead, they had to be the protector. They had to be the provider. They had to go out into the workforce. They had to be on edge all the time. They had to be vigilant when out in public. They had to be protective of themselves and other people. And it stripped their ability to be lovely and beautiful. And that's the problem that, it's a problem for both sexes, by the way. Women can't be women anymore because there's no men to do it. And men can't find beautiful women. And when I say beautiful, I'm talking about lovely, I think is the better word.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Lovely women, because they're acting like men. I would never call you lovely, Kip. I would, I would call some women in my life lovely. That's, and I'm sure they would like to be that. I've had so many conversations that women are like, I would like that to be the case, but I can't let my guard down because there's no man to fill the role that he needs to fill. So we're not finding lovely women. Women are becoming masculinized and everybody's pissed. What's the solution? Men, protect, provide, preside. Ladies, let us do it. We want to do it. Lower your guard a little bit when you feel safe and comfortable.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  And let's come together, feminine, masculine, coming together and creating something beautiful. But you can be that for your daughter or daughters in this case. And I think it's a powerful role. I love it.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Carbon Hash, he has a short one here. He says, how do you handle being angry at your kids without becoming your own father?

• 43:54Speaker 00

  Well, I think, I think first and foremost, identify, when you say becoming your own father, you should be able to identify what that is very clearly. And I would actually get a notepad out and I would write all the things down. And I'd write the good things too, by the way. So you have a T chart and you're like, okay, here's the good things. Hard worker, capable, strong opinions, opinionated, and that can be good or bad. But write down all the good things. And then on the other side, write down impatient, quick, quick temper, maybe, maybe abusive, verbally, emotionally, physically, sexually, whatever.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  Write down all of those things because now you know what you admired in him and what you didn't. And so you can say to yourself, well, I want to be a hard worker and I want to be committed and I want to have courage and bold assertions in the way I view the world. I want to, I love those, those are great things. I want to be those things, but I don't want to be impatient with my children. And I don't want to be a quick temper. And I don't want to be emotionally or verbally abusive. Good, write all that down. Anger is not the issue. There's going to be things that your children do that just tick you off. That's not a problem. It's, you know what? Being angry is sometimes justified.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Like I get angry when my kids don't take care of their stuff around the house because then somebody else has to do it. And that's not fair to the other people in the house if you're not pulling your weight. Now, do I march into the room and beat the hell out of one of my children because they're not putting away their dishes? Probably a little aggressive. But could I use that anger to say, hey, look bud, what is your role in the house as far as, as far as keeping it clean and orderly? Well, I'm supposed to do the dishes, clean my room and vacuum. Right. And how do you feel like you've been doing those things? Eh, I haven't been doing very good. Right. Why?

• 46:05Speaker 00

  And how do you think that impacts everybody else in the family? So I can be angry, but now I'm actually having a productive conversation instead of a destructive conversation. So detach the emotion from the response. I can be sad, I have sad days. Do I, do I wallow in my own self pity? Do I throw a pity party? Do I play victim? Do I, do I gaslight people to, you know, validate me in certain way? No. I'm just having a bad day, but I still do my work. I show up as powerfully as I can. I figure out why I'm having a bad day. I changed my behavior. I changed my thought pattern.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  And that is all a result of an emotion that most people would say is a negative one. It's not negative. It's actually really powerful and productive if you do the right thing with it. But detach them and then you won't be your dad. Cause look, you're going to get angry. You're, you're a human being. Nobody's telling you not to get angry. We're telling you not to hit your child. There's a difference between the two. It's a wide gap that we don't have to bridge.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Well, and it's a great time to even learn about yourself. You know, we use this analogy, like the, you've, you've used this term, like the check engine light or the fuel light is just an indicator on the dashboard, right? And then what you do with it matters. And, and, but sometimes I do, you know, if we use that analogy, sometimes the fuel low gauge is faulty. And what you also don't want to do is like, oh, it's saying that the tank's empty. And then you just keep pouring gas in, right? And have it overfill. That also doesn't serve you. And you might sometimes go, well, maybe that check engine sensor's off. Maybe the fuel gauge sensor's off. Maybe that's not justified.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Maybe the thing I'm mad about is not really what they're doing. Maybe it's actually something else. Maybe it's rooted in something else. And so just be present to it. Yes, I, I agree, there are just indicators, what we do matters. But also like learn, like why is that triggering me? Why is that making me upset? Is that even justified? And, and put yourself in check as well from time to time. But, but I agree with you because I think sometimes we have to be careful. Cause if we're not careful, we'll communicate, don't have emotions. Right? And that's also not true. And that's never going to happen either.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  So I'm not saying, don't get all sideways with the idea that you get angry from time to time, but be, be present to it and maybe, you know, seek to understand where that's coming from.

• 48:52Speaker 00

  I love that. I love that. Yeah, it's, it's, the other thing I was thinking is, let's say, I'm sure we've all punched a hole in the wall, right? Kip, I'm sure you've done that. I've done that.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  I've done it.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  And so you punch a hole in the wall and then your wife's like, hey, what, what happened to this wall? And you're like, well, I was angry, so I punched a hole in the wall. It's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Anyway. You were angry, understandable, potentially. And so then because of that, you were forced against your will for your fist to fly through the wall? If that's what you're saying, you were angry and that is attached to punching a hole in the wall? Well, why aren't there more holes in the wall? Why don't, why didn't she punch a hole in the wall when she was angry? Oh, wait, because those two aren't married?

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Like, don't say thi- I was angry and so I yelled at my kids. No, you were angry and you yelled at your kids. You were angry and you punched a hole in the wall. What if instead of that, you said, I was angry and so I talked with my children about what I was upset about? I was angry and so I went to the gym and blew off some steam because it was building up and venting inside of me. I didn't want to let it get out to anybody else. Oath, reasonable responses to anger. One sets productive, one is literally destructive if you're punching holes in the wall.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, totally. All right, well, one more question here. Beau Lynn Scott, he says, what's one thing that you've had to unlearn from your father that took you the longest to shake?

• 50:40Speaker 00

  I mean, I didn't know my father very well. My father was an alcoholic too. He's passed away now, but my father was an alcoholic too.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Maybe unintentionally learned from your father. You know what I mean?

• 50:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I would say, you know, that's, that's, we know that's genetic, right? Our propensity for alcohol abuse and drug abuse and those sorts of things. Um, drugs has never been an issue for me, but I've really had to spend some time on that. You know, I'd also say my dad in a lot of ways, and I don't like, I don't like even saying this because there's so many positive things about my father that I would rather focus on. But in the spirit of the question, I think my father had so many great ideas and I think he had so much potential inside of him. I think he could have done amazing things. When I was a kid, I would go into his paint shop and he always worked for another, whether it was a chain or a private company.

• 51:37Speaker 00

  But I would go to his, his paint shop, wherever he was working and I would watch him almost in awe at the way that he would interact with his clients. I mean, he, he learned to speak Spanish, to talk to some of his clients. Um, they were, they, they grew, they lived in a predominantly Hispanic area in California. Um, he would joke with them, he would play with them, he would make people he didn't know, he'd make them feel comfortable. He had this amazing ability to match paint by sight. So people would be bringing a paint sample and be like, okay, that's two shots of red and three things of green, and then I'm going to add a little bit more of this and a little bit. And he would get it just by sight before there was like all the formulas that were all taken care of.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  And I was always so impressed with that, but the thing that I never really understood, I'm like, why didn't, why didn't you do more? Like, why didn't, why, like, it seemed like he settled. And that might've been a result of some of his, you know, his, his alcohol abuse or other things, but like, why did he settle? Maybe he didn't feel like he did, I don't know, but I refused to be that way.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  You saw more potential in him than, than what he delivered, yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  And I refused personally to let myself coast. I, you know, I got really complacent when I was drinking a lot. It's just the nature of the, the poison we're putting into our bodies. It was amazing when I stopped drinking. I mean, I freed up three to four hours a day. There was times where I'd do my work by 11 or noon and I'd be pacing around the house like, what do I do now? Cause two, three months earlier, I'd probably just be passed out or, you know, in a, in a haze or a coma. So, um, yeah, potential, like realizing the entirety of what we're capable of doing is important to me.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny, we've used this analogy and, and more and more of this is present in my life that are some of our greatest strengths are our weaknesses. And the thing that comes to mind for me is right in line with that category. And at my dad's funeral, and I've heard it my entire life around, you know, my dad's name is RD. And that, uh, he's just a hard worker. Everyone always said it, man, your dad is such a hard worker, your dad is, I mean, everybody would say that to me all the time, right? And, and I knew it, right? Like, I rarely would I ever know about the guy sleeping, right?

• 54:09Speaker 01

  And even if I logically look at, back at life and I'm like, I have no idea how he pulled it off with how many hours he constantly worked. And if there was a trend in my brothers and what we got from our father, it was that. That we all, our work ethic was awesome. But that also taught me that the quality of something is tied to how much hard work you put into it. And, and I was raised with this idea that like, if you're not grinding, if you're not like

• 54:54Speaker 01

  exhausted from work, then you're not doing it right.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  Hmm, doesn't count as much.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, uh, and I think that was wrong, like that, that's something that I've, I've had to unlearn and somewhat recent. Recently unlearned and go, actually, no, it shouldn't be difficult and miserable and grinding all the time. That I can be effective and productive and, and, and give my heart to something, but also keep it in its place. And have a balance of life, of experience, love and relationships while also working. And work isn't everything. Um, and so that, that's probably been the, you know, the gift from him, but also

• 55:40Speaker 01

  the gift that, that I had to put in check and, and make sure that I was learning the right lesson.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's powerful. I like that. All right, good man. We've got some good questions. Go for it.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Great questions as always, uh, keep them coming. We have a, a call to action, uh, and, and what the call to action is, is registering for an event that we have on August 19th at 8:00 PM Eastern Standard Time. Um, and it's the War Room. Uh, to learn more, go to orderofman.com/warroom. Uh, and Ryan's going to be presenting around the five frameworks to restore order. So, and, and I don't know, Ryan, if this is aligned, but when I hear that, I think, all right. If you're living a life of a little bit chaos, things are chaotic, maybe at work or at home and it just,

• 56:33Speaker 01

  man, you, you need to, to get that energy back by that order gives us. Um, I, I think this is going to be a call for you. So once again, orderofman.com/warroom and that's August 19th at 8:00 PM. Anything you would add and maybe even tease around that subject, Ryan?

• 56:52Speaker 00

  I, I mean, I think you hit it, like when men feel chaotic in their lives, they're not, they're not as productive. They're not as fulfilled, they're not as calm, even for themselves. We've even had a couple of questions today that revolved around the same issue. One guy said, hey, I feel like I'm losing my 16-year-old son. That's chaos. It can't feel good, it doesn't feel good. I felt that way before. So how do you restore order within the walls of your home? Or maybe you feel like you're losing it in business. Maybe your employees are, are, are not satisfied, um, or, or you're not satisfied because your boss is chaotic and hectic. And you feel like maybe there's, you know, something brewing on the horizon. You don't quite know what it is, you can't quite put your finger on it, but you're, you're uncomfortable. You're not at ease.

• 57:36Speaker 00

  Um, you can't sleep at night, something's keeping you awake. Structure and order is, is the solution to that. And there's frameworks for creating that in your life. Order of Man has always been a great name, not because I'm biased, although I am, but because order has two meanings. Order as in us as a collective, men getting together, working together, but also order as in there's a natural order of things. There's a natural order between masculinity and femininity, for example. But there's also order in the way that we are to show up. Protect, provide, preside is part of that order. If we know that and we know the parameters in which we operate, then it gives us a clearer path to what we should be doing.

• 58:21Speaker 00

  A lot of times people think structure, discipline, order, et cetera, are limiting. No, it's actually very freeing because it frees up your capacity to focus on the few things that matter as compared to all of the things, most of which doesn't. So we'll talk about those frameworks and the best thing about it is it's entirely free. I just, I want to help people. I, I, I want men to thrive and this is something that I think we can do once a month that just gives men ideas. So whether you're in the Iron Council or not, or listen, or don't, or care about us, or don't, I care about you. I want this to be successful for you. So orderofman.com/warroom, RSVP.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  That way I have an idea of how many people be joining us and it should be a really good call.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Excellent. And as always, connect with Mr. Mickler on the socials, both X and Instagram, at Ryan Mickler. Always an honor, sir. And, and thanks to the guys for, for solid questions for my own personal benefit.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, I'd say it's selfish, but it's not, it's aligned, right? And I think when you find alignment between the value you're receiving and the value you're giving, that's a beautiful place to be. So guys, we'll be back on Friday. Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man Podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.