3 Things That Don't Lie: Bank Account, Calendar, Scale | ASK ME ANYTHING

Ryan and Kipp dive into another Ask Me Anything episode covering friendship, leadership, masculinity, marriage, and purpose. They begin by discussing George Washington's remarkable character and why understanding history matters today. Listener questions lead to conversations about finding true brothers instead of surface-level friends, accepting difficult personal feedback, evaluating modern masculinity influencers, and navigating marriage when a wife earns more than her husband. Along the way, Ryan shares personal stories about leadership, divorce, and conviction, while Kipp offers practical insights on authenticity, self-leadership, and intentional living. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 – Pre-show conversation 11:47 – George Washington discussion 19:21 – Finding brothers instead of casual friends 27:22 – Difficult personal feedback and growth 42:30 – Choosing trustworthy voices on masculinity 51:19 – Should men be the primary provider? 1:03:18 – Iron Council preview invitation 1:04:18 – Closing thoughts Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  When I went through a divorce, I made sure that my finances were in a range in a way where my ex-wife can stay at home and homeschool my children. If you question my commitment to what I'm telling you, you don't know the story. I could have very easily said, "You're not getting this much, you're not doing this." She could have been forced to go back to work, the kids could have been forced to go back to school. I'm that convicted that I created a financial sacrifice, a financial detriment, because of how much I believe in what I just told you. And I didn't have to do that.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  All right, Kip, what's up, man? So good to see you. I'm actually really looking forward to hanging out with you and your family. This is my family and Matt Jenkins and his family, so we're gonna have a good time, man. Looking forward to it.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, let's get this over with so we can start relaxing.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  I know, man, it's like, but you know, like, are you the kind of guy who can relax? I don't think you are. I'm definitely not, and I don't think you are. Maybe that's part of the reason we get along so well.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, and I think that's a form of relaxation, right? Is a sense of like, you know, it's, how's this? It's nice to get things done and not have the pressure of getting them done. So sometimes it's, it's nice just to work on things, not because I have to, just because I want to, take your time, you know, and, and still be productive. I, I don't know, I think that's healthy to some extent.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, absolutely. Think it's, I think it's nice to get that relaxing in, that enjoying in. And also, I think the hardest thing that guys struggle with is with our businesses, we don't struggle with our bodies, you know, some of us struggle more than others. But when it comes to the personal, the family stuff, the personal stuff, relaxing, being a better father, the being more spiritually grounded, that's the stuff that's hard because it's really hard to quantify. How do you quantify being a better father? You can, if you spend a little time and be deliberate about it, but it isn't so readily available as I have $500 more in my bank account than I did yesterday. So, or, or I'm five pounds lighter than I was last week.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  Those things are easy to quantify. It's the fatherhood stuff, it's, it's that soft stuff that makes it hard for us, I think.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I actually have an interesting thought about this, you know, in... Corporate America, right? We, we build all these assessments from a leadership perspective, right? You might send out these assessments and rate your leadership and your effectiveness or whatever. And I was meeting with a client literally just last month and we were talking about the need for this. And I said, or you could just skip that section and address how you can show it better as a leader. Like just skip it all. Like, like, don't even do the little assessment baseline thing. Just go, well, improve and just improve. And he's like, well, how would I do that? And, and, and it's funny because I just used this with

• 3:01Speaker 01

  my kids, one of my daughters last night. Um, and it's kind of a, what I call like a sort of feedback, but I just sat down with her and I said, Hey, what's the biggest thing that you're dealing with right now that you feel like stressed out about or has a lot of your attention? And she shared it with me and I'm like, all right, in what ways am mom and I making it more difficult for you to achieve that?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  And then we had a conversation. I thought of some things that I need to do better as a father. I didn't need to get a survey baseline, but I could just be intentional about, am I getting better? Am I focused on improving? And am I getting feedback for the sake of changing, not for the sake of having a score? If that makes sense?

• 3:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does. You know, like it's, it's a lot like for anybody who listen, who's listening, who might be Mormon. I know you are Kip. I, I am no longer and I haven't been for about five years now, but it's the home, it's the home teaching. I don't even think they call it, what do they call it now? Fellowship? What do they call it? They don't even call it ministry. Is that what they call it?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, just ministering. Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  So the, but that's actually a good change because the, when I was part of the church was home teaching. And so for those of you who aren't familiar, you and one other elder of the church, so man, uh, would be assigned three to five families within the neighborhood, the community, we call it the ward. And you would go home, teach those, home, teach those individuals. And the idea was that you'd spend. Uh, you know, usually a Sunday afternoon, you'd go see them once a month and you'd bring a spiritual lesson and you'd pray over them and you'd ask them if they needed any help. And what, what I felt like it was becoming is, hey, let's just this off the list because

• 4:47Speaker 00

  most of the people, including the bishopric, although they might be great men, they're unqualified in leadership, often. They don't, they don't learn leadership principles. It's like, no, God has ordained you, has tapped you on the shoulder, but they don't learn how to actually do this stuff.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  And volunteer. Yeah.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  And volunteer and take away from your family. This is why I always hated when young men were put in the bishopric. I'm like, I had a friend who's going to school, he studies therapy, he's doing his master's program, he's doing some therapy on the side as often as he can to get his hours in. He's got four kids, two of which are twins. And what the hell? Like, leave the poor guy alone. You say families are unqualified, then you strip him from his family and you tell him if he doesn't do it, he's less likely. Like, I have issues, kind of stuff. Anyways, beside the point. Um, but I think what it became

• 5:46Speaker 00

  was like, hey, let me just put this little X mark on my spreadsheet. And it became less about, no, I, I know my families. Like this family's got a son who's going on a mission and this family's got a son who is dealing with suicide. And this family needs help because they're actually about to lose their home because dad's disabled and lost his job. And it was no longer about that. And it became more about, well, you don't need to tell me all the stuff they're dealing with. Just, I just need to put an X on the box.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  And that's not leadership, that's management. And it's not going to help you build anything great or wonderful.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Totally. Well, and here's what's great is This can show up everywhere, right? Because the reality of it is, is if, if we're not questioning the intentions by which we're executing, we'll lose sight of why we're doing it.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Same things go for corporate America. We, we could have, you know, leading indicators, right? We believe that if we do tasks, X, Y, Z, they'll result in these results or have these outcomes. But if we lose sight of it, we'll find ourselves checking boxes, right? And, and losing the intentionality of it all. And, and I think, and I, I even appreciate, you know, the example of like taking on callings, right? When, when people ask you to take those callings off. If you're operating out of compliance for anybody, you lost the whole point of it.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Are you committed to it? Is it what's best for you? If it's not, push against it and say, hey, that's not what's ideal for me. That is not what's ideal for my family. But far too often in life, we have a tendency to be compliant, right? To, to do what is asked of us. Why? Because it was asked. Not because we addressed it was what's best for us. And there's a big difference between all those. And you could be in a great environment, under a great leader, and be compliant and lose sight of it. I mean, we could have guys in the iron council. Oh, man, this is about my family. And then before you know it, they're checking the box on the battle plan. And you're like, dude, you lost sight of it. Intentionality, why are you doing what you're doing? And this is why it's so important to have our identities

• 7:55Speaker 01

  kind of flushed out a little bit, but most importantly, the values by which we operate. Otherwise, we'll find ourselves checking boxes all over in life, you know? I'm spiritual or I'm religious. Why? Well, because I belong to this group and this group tells me what I should believe in, and I've stopped being a spiritual person. I mean, and that's a failure of mankind in general.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Well, I, I remember years ago, again, when I was part of the LDS church. Again, for people who don't know, like, part of, I think, what makes the church so great is that... We have these wards and so wards are communities and depending on how large a population of LDS members in that community depends on how broad that geographical boundary is. And so in Utah, it's very small. Yeah. Literally be two or three blocks and they'd fill up a ward, right? But in California, it might be a 10 mile radius of people.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  But I remember anytime you move to a new ward, the bishopric, which is, is the bishop is an overseas and is spiritually responsible for that ward. And they bring you in when you move in and they're like, hey, we'd like to get to know you and all the pleasantries. And then they talk about what, you know, you know, things or what position within the ward that you will fulfill. And I remember going to do these bishop interviews and, and I want to say very clearly, like 99.9999% of the people that I believe in the church are wonderful, wonderful people, including the bishopric. Like I want to put that out there. I have no hostility towards it, but it was always funny because they'd say, hey, oh, we need this and this and this. And I said, hey, you

• 9:35Speaker 00

  know, I'm willing to help out in the ward with the young men, specifically teachers. Yeah. And I remember every time, half a dozen times that I moved, the bishop was like, well, we really need help with the deacons. I'm like, I told you, teachers, priests. I'll do teachers or priests. I won't do deacons. Deacons are 12 to 14 year olds are little assholes. I don't want to deal with it.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  And they're like, well, we really need help in the nursery. I'm like, you're not listening to what I'm saying. Like, I know you need help. Go get a grandma to help in nursery. Go get a woman who's an elementary teacher to teach in primary. Go get some gray haired 75 year old who has nothing better to do to teach elders quorum or gospel doctrine. I'm not doing it.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  And, and they're like, well, you know, you're not being a team player. I'm like, I'm fine.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  I'm okay with that.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  Fine. A tight end is not a linebacker. Safety is not a quarterback. It's fine.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  You're like, I know where I operate well.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  If you're telling me I'm not a team player, then I'm off the team. And without a doubt, they'd put me into teacher's quorum, which is what I requested. But I just, maybe I'm getting too old where I'm like, I'm not doing that anymore. Like, I know where I'm good. I know what I like. I wanna help. I wanna be productive, but I'm gonna do it within these boundaries because this is what works for me.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  So.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  And I think that's what, and that's kind of what I was alluding to. That's how we should.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  We should be operating that way. Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  All right, Ben. Well, okay, so we just wasted a bunch of time. I don't think, we, we, we talked a lot about some good things, but, but let's move to our wholesome sex. Um, bro, I went and saw Young Washington over the weekend. Actually, um, I think I texted my oldest son. He's 18 and I'm like, hey dude, you wanna go to the movie? And I fully expected him to say, no way.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  And he's like, yeah, I'll go to the movie with you. I'm like, wait, what? He's like, yeah, my girlfriend's out of town. I'm like, okay, well, you know, I'll take it. Whatever. I'll take it.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Second string.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  I don't care why. I'll be second string. If it means I can get to hang out with my son. He's asleep for the movie, but I still had a good time with him.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  I don't think people realize how big of a badass George Washington was. Like, I really don't. So Young Washington is the time from when he was little up until about the time that he starts taking over command of, uh, the Virginia, uh, militia regiment, uh, before, before he becomes general of, of the American Army, which was non-existent before that. Man, it is really good. I've read a handful of biographies on George Washington. And I love the fact that with Washington, they painted him as flawless, and he was.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  There's a lot of people don't know because he hits this meteoric rise and there's this folklore about him. He was, as a young officer of

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Of the militia, he did not have a crown um assignment, a crown commission. He he can't, I mean, he really dropped the ball. Has had very embarrassing early battles with the French during the French and Indian War when he was fighting for the English. Um, I love it, man. I love it. And then I just started watching George Washington on the History Channel. It's a, I don't know if it's more than this, but so far I think they have three or four uh uh those now. It is so good and it just just rates the importance of men like

• 13:33Speaker 00

  Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton. And like, I think we, I think we underestimate how incredible these human beings were. Nathaniel Hale, um, but then you have other characters, for lack of a better term, British side Cornwallis and um and Hale, I believe his name was and um

• 14:00Speaker 00

  uh what's his name? Braddock, uh, General Braddock, who George Washington served under as his esquire or his aide de camp. It's it's an it's an amazing, amazing story. And if you're the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter or any of any like really

• 14:20Speaker 00

  fantasy type things, but you haven't read the story of the early American Revolution. You you gotta read it because it's absolutely incredible. It really is.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I nerded out on the book, The Real George Washington.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  Yes, great book.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Oh, man, it's such a great book and

• 14:37Speaker 00

  So good.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Fascinating, like even the account that and and I saw the account in the trailers, haven't watched the movie yet. But I saw the accounts about, you know, when he was fired upon um by by some Native Americans and he had holes in his jacket and that kind of stuff, but. A lot of those accounts aren't his account. That that's the other thing that's fascinating that I learned around George Washington. A lot of what you know about him, they're the journal entries of people that were there. So this isn't like George Washington propping himself up that this happened. This is other people who wrote about these scenarios where

• 15:18Speaker 01

  like a chief from a tribe came in and wanted to meet with the the man that that God appointed as a future leader. And that's why his that's why his warriors couldn't kill him. That was someone else's account, not George Washington's. In fact, when that occurred, George Washington sat at the campfire and never even said a word. Right? And he just listened. And that was it. You know, and it's just, I don't know, man, it's fascinating. And if you ever get a chance to go to the Capitol, a lot of people don't realize this, but and and I know I don't think this is, I don't know, I don't think this is a negative thing. I think it's it's just a testament of how he was seen. Look at the murals and the paintings of him in

• 16:02Speaker 01

  in the Capitol and the Library of Congress. People really felt he was divine. He was a divine person. And you'll and he's he's depicted that way has almost like a, you know, godly in nature.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  Angelic, yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And just a fascinating man, fascinating story, man. It gets me fired up, makes me so happy to be an American, right? And to be associated with such an amazing country.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  I mean, that's part of the reason I get so frustrated. You see all these people and they hate America. Like, I don't think just because you disagree with current policy or or a different way that that means you hate America like some political pundits and talking heads might say. I don't I don't agree with that, just by default. But yeah, there are people who hate America. And and there's politicians who hate America. Not that they want to create a better, more prosperous, of freedom and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They want to completely undermine it with communism, socialism, Third Worldism, Buddhism, Islam. Like, this is not what our country was founded on. And

• 17:16Speaker 00

  I I'm disheartened to say the least and I'm angry, really angry with it because if you start actually reading what took place and what transpired, yeah, they're they're flawed human beings. Okay, George Washington was quick to anger. He had a temper like nobody. He was vain at times. I mean, look at what he wore. He showed up to the Second Continental Congress in a military uniform, but before he was even dubbed general of the of the the colonies, I was gonna say militia, but army at that point. He was pretentious. He was vain. He was ambience. He was egotistical. He was quick to anger.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  And also, he was good and righteous and believed in freedom and liberty and the pursuit of happiness and wanted the best for this country and convicted and willing to make sacrifices for his beliefs. So, yeah, they weren't perfect. They all slaved. They, in a lot of ways, they were less than, you know, stellar examples of what it means to be a man, but also in a lot of ways, they were way better than us, way better than us.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Love it, man. Should we get into questions?

• 18:37Speaker 00

  All right. Finally, the Ask Me Anything, you might address some questions.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  All right. Foster Dan B. I've got guys I text and guys I grab beers with, but nobody who'd actually call me out if I was making bad decisions. Can't relate to that, Foster. How do you tell the difference between friends and brothers? And how do you go about finding the second kind in your 40s?

• 19:06Speaker 00

  I feel like I've talked about this a lot. I should something that I wrote just last night, actually, and I'm gonna do a little bit more in depth on this.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  Let me pull up something that I was considering. I wrote this down today. There's, there's five types. Again, this is something I was just kind of brainstorming and, and kind of teasing out a little bit, but there's five types of friends that a man has. Okay, so number one, there's the convenient friend. And the convenient friend is the guy who comes to you when he, he struggles, or he has a need, or he's, you know, his wife said something that he needs to work through, or he's dealing with a financial hardship and he needs a loan or whatever. And so he'll pat you on the back, belly up with you and do all the things when it's expedient for him. Okay, that's the convenient friend.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Kind of superficial, but they're looking to take, not give.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  That's more what it is. They're, they're a consumer, not a producer in the friendship. Okay, then you have the default, and these aren't in any order, but you have the default. And I'm looking at my notes here, but you have the default. And the default is an inherent friend. So it might be your brother. Uh, it might be a brother-in-law because you married into the family. It might be your neighbor because he happens to be the next door neighbor. Uh, it might be somebody who you work with because you're just in proximity, eight to 10 hours a day. And this is the default friend and, and they're good. They serve their purpose, but they're the default friend. Doesn't usually go too deep unless deliberate and intentional about it. But, you know, they're there just because they're in proximity. So that's the default friend. Okay.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Next is you have the clown. And the clown is just there. They just want to have fun. And as long as it's fun, as long as it's life, as long as it's easy, there's no inconveniences, there's no hardship, there's no deep conversations. We're just here to have a good time. We're going to go to the lake. We're going to go to the concert. We're going to drink a few beers. Make so-and-so to the bachelor party. Again, these people all serve a purpose. Okay, but that's the clown. They're not there for anything deep and meaningful. They just want to have a good time. And when the good times end, they're out.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  And then you have two. So those are the three that I would say are on the left side of the spectrum, the lower side of the spectrum. Okay. And then you have the right side of the spectrum. Two people, two types of friends that exist in this, in this spectrum. So the first is what I would call the ghost. And I'm not even saying that as a bad thing, but the ghost is somebody that you admire from a distance. Right? So it's like, I'm going to read up on George Washington. I'm going to follow David Goggins. I'm going to really read up on what Jaco Willink has to say, or what Jordan Peterson has to say, or what this person's book says, or this person's email sends to me, or this person's course, or that person's conference.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  And that's a ghost. And, and we look at that person and we, and we have respect and admiration, and they inspire us and they motivate us and we're going to be deliberate about who the ghost is. But they're not really in proximity. We're just picking up their stuff, being intentional, and maybe even a bit through osmosis. Then further to the scale, on the right hand side, is what I would call the 2am friend. And the 2am friend is the guy who, if you called at 2am, and you said, hey, bro, I'm struggling. He would pick up that text. He would pick up that phone call. I think you're one of these types of, of skip is if I called you up, as long as your

• 22:52Speaker 00

  phone wasn't on silent, but if I called you up at 2, I'm like, bro, I'm struggling. I need your help. I need you down here. I think you'd probably be to be with, within 12 hours.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, I can be reasonable as well. Yeah. But I, I think you

• 23:08Speaker 01

  That's also why I keep my ringer off.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  Right. Because, well, exactly. That's why I threw that caveat in there.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  Would be that to you, right? So that's a 2am friend. That's the guy who's like, he's vested. Yeah, he wants something out of the relationship, but he's willing to pour more into the relationship than he gets out of it. He realizes that you're not only a friend, but what I would call a brother, like this person talked about. And he's willing to go deep, you know, he doesn't need it to always be fun and games and roses. He'll go through the hardship with you, he'll suffer with you. He'll tell you things that maybe aren't comfortable. You know, I sent a text last night that potentially risks some element of the relationship, but I was like, this is what I think he needs to hear. So I'm gonna say it.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  And that requires boldness on my part, and it also requires humility and grace on your part. And by the way, that goes both ways. Like you've sent me messages and you've said things to me where I'm like, fuck off at first, but I'm like, no, that's actually good. That's good information for me to have. So I think we need to do is to move from the left side of the spectrum with the clown and the Joker and the, you know, and move over to the 2am type. And what that requires, to answer your question, is intentionality. Because every that exists on the left side of that friendship spectrum for men. Again, let me just pull it up here. The convenient, the default and the clown exist as in a vacuum.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  It's just like what happens when you aren't deliberate and intentional about it. But when you start becoming deliberate and intentional about, hey, where are the guys that I want to spend time with? What are the conversations they're having? Let me go ahead and just ask a deep question. If I asked, if I asked 10 men a deep question, three of them would go deep with me and the other seven would be like, nah, I don't, I'm not comfortable with this. And they'd bail. And that lets me know. Those are on the left side. The three who answered, they're closer to center or the right side. So I think it just takes a lot of effort on your part to move from the default to the intentional.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it. And I'd love to call to action to go first a little bit, right? This has happened to me even in the Iron Council where, you know, I'm on a battle team and I just felt like we were superficial. And it was really tempting for me to sit back and go, oh, these guys are all superficial. But instead I paused and went, am I being superficial? I am actually, I am not being as authentic with them and raw about what I'm dealing with. So guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna apologize for how I've been showing up. I'm gonna admit some concerns that I have and open up to the group. And what did they do? They all opened up, right?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  So like, the main thing is, you know, and you know, right? I know, like, I love the, the framework that you gave because I know those guys and I know some of those guys on the left side of that spectrum, they're not going to operate with me in that way. They just not.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  And it's fine if you know it, right? Like if you know the clown and you're like, cool, I can go have a great time at the lake with this guy. That's cool. But I'm gonna compartmentalize, say that's what that friendship is for, but something deep, deep is over here.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it, man. I love it. All right, next question by Salis Marchetti. What's a piece of feedback about yourself you resisted for years before finally accepting it was true?

• 27:01Speaker 00

  That I'm an asshole. Um, man, that's a good one. I mean, that's, I was joking about that, but it's also partially true. I'm, I'm very convicted. I'm very, I'm very black and white. I'm very convicted. When I make a choice, my choice is made. I don't deviate, I don't go off track. And if I do, I get back on the track or even if I do, I know it's wrong. I'll say that as well. Um, but I go hard and I don't have time for bullshit and.

• 27:47Speaker 00

  In my younger years, I didn't really care about what anybody else thought of that. Like, fuck off. If you're not with me, you're against me. And what I realize now, that there's some nuance there.

• 28:01Speaker 00

  That, that people's feelings actually matter. That, that the way people perceive you, the right people, the way they perceive you is important. And you ought to be aware of that, because that helps you build the influence that you need. And if you try to bully and railroad everybody, uh, you might get, you'll probably get some stuff done. But you'll lift your head up and realize, no one else is around you. And I want to get a lot done, but I also want to get a lot done with other people. I, I, I want other people, for example, enlisted in this. I, I want them to be involved in this, because if I go down, or I'm not interested, or...

• 28:42Speaker 00

  I mean, even, even if I am still enlisted, and even if I am still excited about what we're doing, I can't grow this to the level I want to by myself. It's impossible. And if I just stomp all over everybody in order to get what I want, then it might work in the short, I think it will work in a lot of ways in the short term. But I don't think it'll work long term. And so, yeah, I've had a lot of people say, "Why are you such a jerk?" And I'm like, "What are you, I'm not a jerk." I'd never, I didn't perceive myself that way. I'm like, "What are you talking about? I'm not a jerk." I've had enough people say it to me and addressed enough consequences of being that way, that I realize, maybe I am. And maybe I am a jerk.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  And so, it's a constant battle for me of like...

• 29:31Speaker 00

  I mean, I, like, whatever I think or, or say is, like, it is the right way. This is right. This is a hundred percent right.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  And it serves me in a lot of ways. It's kind of that, that catch 22 where it's like, nah, that's what makes you successful, but also...

• 29:51Speaker 00

  Maybe you're not as great as you think you are.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Um, I love that you brought up an item that you resisted for years, that you've accepted, but you also realize it's still a struggle. And it doesn't like it. What's interesting? It's like you may accept it like, oh, all right, maybe I am this way, but it doesn't like magically all of a sudden, you know, you're not that way anymore. You're just now present to it and now you have to work on it, right?

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm aware of it. And also, I don't think I'm entirely wrong either. That's the catch. Right? So the catch is one end of the spectrum is just being a total dick to everybody. And the other is being a complete passive wimp cowardly on the other side. I have to find the middle ground. I'm not saying that just because I can't take somebody else's back an opinion in a way that I could not maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, that I'm wrong. I still think I'm good. If I didn't think I was right, I would have a different opinion.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or why are you doing what you're doing if you don't think you're right?

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Right? Exactly. So I still think my way is the best way. But what I do now is I want to incorporate other people's perspective and embrace them as my own, not to, not to play plays, but to embrace ideas that I wasn't privy to before. So that's the balance, right?

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. Hmm. I see it. Yeah. For me, I think it's self centered. Yeah, I spent a lot of my life very much focused on myself and, and with all these reasons and excuses and woe is me and just the world revolving around me all the time. And I always had a really good reason for not serving others and caring and loving, loving them how I probably should have been because I was just focused about me and, and me getting mine, if that makes sense. And so,

• 32:05Speaker 01

  I didn't see that for a really long time and and it was pointed out to me many times and I'm like, absolutely, that's not how I feel. Which is great because it's like, well, how you feel versus what you do are two drastic things. And this idea, like I even think about this quite a bit. It's like, you know, when you care for someone, you know, we'll say that, right? Ryan, do you care about the homeless kids? You know, every person was like, yeah, I care about homeless kids. And it's like, oh, awesome. What are you doing about it?

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Nothing. Okay, got it. You don't really care. Right? There's a big difference between saying what you think versus our actions and what they show. And so I always felt like, man, I know I love my wife. I love my kids and they're important to me. But there's a big difference between that and my actions and my actions are very self-centered. So and and I actually think it hasn't gone away. It's still very much of a natural default for me. And I have to check myself quite a bit in regards to what I'm focused on. And to your point, too, it's like, yeah, but the things I'm working on are really important things that I need to,

• 33:19Speaker 01

  you know, but if I'm not careful, I'll kind of operate in my own little world and forget those that I love.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  You know, as you were saying that, I wrote three things down here. There's three things. There's probably more, but there's three things that immediately come to mind that don't lie about what's important to you. What do you think they are? Just on the fly? Just put you on the spot a little bit. Three things.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Action. Well, actions for sure.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  Well, actions, sure, but like, let's get a little more. Okay, no, you're not wrong. Okay, so actions. Okay, what else?

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Your calendar, right? Like, or what you prioritize or schedule at least, right? And then actions I think are downstream to that.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  And then probably language. I don't know. Those are the things that come to mind.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. So here's, here's what I wrote. Three things. Your calendar, which I tie to action just like you did. Action is downstream of your calendar. So show me your calendar. I know what's important to you. Show me your calendar. Number two, your bank account. Show me your bank account. I'll, I will.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Like where you spend money?

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. What's very important to you. And the third is your body.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  I, if, if I can look at your body and I can know how disciplined, how committed, how dedicated, how sacrificial, how excited you are, I can tell everything. Nine percent certainty. Now, look, there's exceptions, right? Somebody has a medical condition in there. They've got a, you know, inoperable brain tumor. Am I going to say that's a lazy sack of crap? No, they have an inoperable brain tumor, I'm saying. But I have to throw that disclaimer out there because there's inevitably a person who says, what about? You know what I'm talking about?

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  There's three things that don't lie. Your calendar, your bank account, your body. Everything else is manipulatable. Is that a word? Manipulatable? Able to be manipulated. Let's say it that way.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  Well, in Southern Utah, we can just make up our own words. So like, like Hurricane, yeah, like George G dub, you know, and it's like, the words and Candace Owens is apparently allowed to get away with it as well. You just make up your own word, say it with conviction and then people are like, that must be a word.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Done. Yeah, done. You know, just a quick little riff on this. I wanted to get your thoughts about this. Years ago, I was meeting with a highly successful entrepreneur, you know, he's grown a business, 100 employees plus. I mean, just killing it, just killing it. And we were talking about company mission and values. And, you know, formulating them and coming up with them or whatever, right? And before the conversation wrapped up, he goes, but you understand that these literally aren't the values, right? And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, well, they're not tested.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Values are downstream to what you do when things are difficult.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Then you'll know what your values are. So there's a big difference between what we aspire to, where we want to go versus what is so.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  And I think we can all pause and go to your point, look at those three things and say, what are your values? Ah, got it. My value is, you know, these things and are they correct? Or is, are they what you want them to be? No, they're not. Okay, then you need to change actions and then byproduct of those will prove what your values are. And I love that because it's not until we're tested, right? It's not until it's difficult. It's not until, you know, things are stress tested. Do I really show what's important to me? It's easy, right, to, to put these high things, you know, these things on a pedestal that are important to us when life is easy.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  The hell of a lot harder when things are not going well. And that, and that's the true test of, of, of our character, but also our values and identity.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  You know, it's, it's interesting you bring that up. So I, I've talked about this story and so I won't really, you know, too much into depth. But my stepfather, who I, I thought was less a stellar example of what it meant to be a man. He said something in that moment and I'll never forget it. And he's exactly right. As he said, Ryan, you know what? Cause I had done something wrong and I thought nobody would find out. And he said, you know, character is what you do when no one's watching.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  It's, it's easy, like it's easy to be virtuous. I, I wouldn't even call it virtuous. It's easy to look virtuous when all eyes are on you. Cause you know, all the eyes are on you. This is part of the reason of these people. They say pray in private. Not because you actually have to pray and pray, because we're also supposed to be professing our faith. But what I think that scripture is actually referencing is, are you as convicted in private as you are in public? I think that's what that scripture references. Not that you shouldn't profess your faith. But that you should be just faithful behind closed doors as you are in a public square.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  And one of the things that came to mind, cause I just, I like, I like fighting. I like UFC is like Justin Gagey is a prime example of this. You know, that guy, we, we, we talked about it a couple of weeks ago, the, the UFC 50. That guy is, I mean, he comes back from hardship. He gets banged up and he gets beat up, gets battered, and he just finds a way to come out on top. And you can't, I mean, you might be able to train some of that, but I think some of that is inherent where it's like, yeah, you're gonna, another one, George Washington, he had two, two or three very, very public humiliating defeats. In fact,

• 39:28Speaker 00

  he, he signed a, a document during the French and Indian War, the early stages of the French and Indian War, and confessed to his death that he didn't understand what was being signed because of translation, but he basically is said that he assassinated a, a foreign dignitary, an ambassador, a Frenchman, signed a document that said he assassinated him.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  Though, like, those are very, especially in a culture of honor, which is what it was 250 years ago, this, this culture of honor was significantly more than it is today. Those are embarrassing defeats, and yet, he came out on top. And, and seeing in Fort Duquesne, embarrassed, or Fort Necessity, excuse me, the Duquesne River, seeing when he lost New York in the early stages of the Revolutionary War, and he had to retreat across, I believe it was the Hudson River. And by the way, I misspoke a couple, I said, something about jets flying over the Hudson was

• 40:37Speaker 00

  the same that he crossed during Christmas. That's not true. I misspoke. It was the Delaware that he crossed.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Delaware, that's right, on the west side, right?

• 40:46Speaker 00

  To, and what? I'm sorry?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  On the west side of New York.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, yeah, closer, down, I, I believe towards what was then Pennsylvania. I don't know if the boundary down to the same to kill

• 40:58Speaker 01

  New Jersey.

• 40:58Speaker 00

  German Haitian cenarrions on Christmas Day.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  He ended up killing 22, uh, 22, uh, German mercenaries and taking over 900 captive to change the tide of the Revolutionary War. We wouldn't have America if it weren't for that move, by the way, because they were just about defeated. We were just about defeated. But it's what you do when nobody's watching. It's what you do when the chips are, you know, stacked against you. That really determines who you actually are. It's easy to be virtuous when everybody's watching. It's easy to be a good steward over your money when financial abundance is raining down on you. It's easy to be a good husband when she's just amazing and doing all the things and carrying the load. Like, what do you do when it's hard?

• 41:46Speaker 00

  That's the real test of who you are as a man.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Um, Duttrich, there are a dozen different guys online, all claiming to be the voice of masculinity, and half of them contradict each other. How is a young guy supposed to figure out who's actually worth listening to versus who's just selling aesthetics?

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think there's two. Okay, so I actually saw this question. This is a really good question. So I don't know if you know this, Kip, but the Tate brothers were arrested in Miami over the weekend. Did you see this?

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I saw that, yeah. And, and the, the accounts to justify the arrests are like, pretty insane. Like,

• 42:34Speaker 00

  Oh, prostitution, child exploitation, child sex

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, rape.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, legit. Yeah. Not good.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  This is, this is not, this is also not a surprise. I mean, they've been arrested before for the same issues in Romania. The only reason these two dorks hang out in Romania is because their legal system is just broken. So they come to the United States and they do their little tour with Tucker Carlson and the like, and, and even some of these right-winged people say they believe in conservatism, but prop up the Tate brothers. And then they get arrested in Miami and extradited to the UK, I believe. I'm not sure if they've been extradited yet or not. But these are very serious allegations. So.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  You know, that that is a clearly a voice for masculinity, clearly. That's how they position themselves and that's the way millions, literally millions of young men have viewed it as that's what it means to be a man. I think you really have to ask yourself a couple of different questions and the basis for who you should follow, whether it's their brothers or me or anybody else. Two things. Number one. What? What is their motive? What is their intention? Who are they propping up? Who are they serving? The Tate brothers serve themselves.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  That's who they serve. They serve themselves.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  And then there's other people, you know, that come to mind. Somebody like, for example, John Lovell with Warrior Poet Society. That is a man who does not serve himself. Now, do his interests align with the people that he's trying to lead? Of course. Otherwise, it wouldn't make a movement. So the interests are aligned, but that's a man who I believe, because I know him and I broke bread with him and spent time with him, who would put principle over profit.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  I believe that's a guy who actually believes what he's saying. And I believe he actually wants to serve other people. At the core of everything else he does, I think he wants people to be better. And then I think there's other individuals, and I won't get into a list of names. You guys can determine that themselves, who are just about propping themselves up. How to make myself look better? How do I? How do I make more money? How do I gain more notoriety? How do you get more accolades? How do I? And that's what that's what people want.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  And you need to acknowledge that. Who who are they serving? I think is probably the first question. And the second question is, what are their results?

• 45:20Speaker 00

  What are their results? You know, so I'll, I'll get, I'll get really frank with you if, if, if you said to me, hey, I want to follow your marriage advice to me, if somebody said that I'd be like, well, you know, take that with a grain of salt.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  I mean, I, I was married for 18 years and I can tell you what worked really, really well. And I can tell you what didn't work at all. And so you might say, and people have like, oh, you're not even married. You, you don't get to talk to me about that. Well, here's the difference. Are they being honest about it?

• 45:53Speaker 00

  Right? Because if I came to you and I said, I know everything about how to create a successful marriage. That's a lie. I'm not married. I went through a divorce. How could I tell you that in honesty? But I can tell you, if I'm being, I can tell you that I know what works for 18 years, almost two decades. That's a long time to be married and I know what doesn't work. I'm honest about that. Then you can, you take that to heart and you can say, well, am I falling into the same traps? Am I doing the same things? Am I struggling in the same areas? And if I am, I know where this leads. So I think integrity is the answer.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  Who do they serve? And are they in integrity? And if there's discrep, just don't, don't follow them. Even if you're supposed to, even if they're cool, even if their Instagram profile is awesome, just follow people. People who want you to win and people who put integrity in failure and success.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, and I love what you said, Ryan, too. It's like, and while you're at it, question all of it.

• 46:56Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Of course.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Right? Like be very careful who you follow, right? We're, we're all flawed men.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  We don't have all our crap together. And not only that, but even when I thought I had my crap together five years ago, I would disagree with me five years ago. Right? So like, what am I saying right now that I'm going to disagree with in another five years as I progress as a man and learn more? Chances are really high, hopefully. So, so we should all be doing the same thing. I, I made this post in the Foundry a couple of weeks ago, and I think it's, it's, it will maybe provide some value for dutchish here. He said, I wrote, "Most men spend their lives waiting to be led." They want someone to hand them structure and a reason to care and to be motivated. But someone that is self leader, like a, someone that's a leader of themselves,

• 47:48Speaker 01

  they understand something different. He is the structure. He is the reason and he is the energy and he doesn't outsource what was designed for him to command. God designed you to command those things for you. Not for you to be a follower of other people and to look for them constantly for guidance and direction. It needs to be your guidance and direction. Now, to get his inputs, that's perfect, lessons and learn and, and all that. But it needs to be yours. Otherwise, what happens is these men fall off the pedestal and what then? What then? You're going to be left into yourself, lost because you don't know what to do?

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Because we became too dependent on, on seeking guidance and direction from others. So, and I'm not saying we shouldn't be open to learning from others, but be very careful when we use this term follow, in my opinion, anyway.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think follow should be, like you said, I like the word input. Um, I, I think, and there's also a difference between questioning. Okay, no, say it this way. There's a difference between asking questions and questioning. Would you agree with that?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Because, because there are some people who are just naturally pessimistic or even deliberately pessimistic. Well, they, they won't believe anything and it's like, look, I don't need to prove everything to you. You, at some point, you've got to make some decisions. Or maybe you just want to be bothered and maybe you just want this to be wrong. But when I am asking questions, you, what I'm asking questions about is something I want to be right. Like I want God to be true. I, I want him to be, I would love, like if I knew that, I would love to know that.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  I want to know that the people who are me are good and righteous human beings. I want to know that the information I'm consuming is the information I ought to be consuming. And that's why I ask questions about it. But questioning, on the other hand, is just pessimism.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, just negative.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  It's, it's, you're actually looking for it to be wrong. You've, in fact, maybe you've already decided it's wrong without evidence. And now you're trying to poke holes in it. And that's what most people do on social media. They've already made the decision that whatever they're talking about is wrong. And they're just trying to prove to themselves so they feel better about it that, that they're wrong. So I, I really think you should question, but questioning is something I would consider different. Maybe it's semantics. I'm just using those terms to convey a concept is all.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, good point. All right, Judah Van Camp. I make less money than my wife.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  Last one, by the way.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  I make less money than my wife and it eats me more than I want to admit. Even though our marriage is otherwise solid, is that just an ego I need to kill? Or is there something real in a man wanting to be the primary provider?

• 51:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. I mean, you are the protector, provider and presider. And I know a lot of people are going to argue with me on this one because I, every time I talk, I made a post years ago and I probably ordered it. A little abrasively, let's say. Uh, but I also agreed with it and I, and I, and I said, something along the lines of, I can't imagine the mental gymnastics and would have to play in order for him to stay at home with his kids while his wife goes out into the workforce. Now, look, I believe that. And you know what else? The data actually supports that. Now, if that dynamic works for you.

• 51:51Speaker 00

  Then, okay, but it doesn't work for you. And I know that because I've looked at the data. The overwhelming amount of issues that are caused in the marriage when a man decides he's going to stay at home to raise his kids and his wife is going to go out into the workforce is absurd.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  It doesn't even make sense. Now financially, sure. And God will say, well, you know, your ego talking. No, it's reality talking. Like you guys are going to go through a divorce. You know that, right? You know that when you're, if you don't know that, or at least the likelihood of you guys going through a divorce, then you're just, as plainly as I can say, ignorant to the reality of the situation. And I'll tell you why. Part of it is because of the way that this man is feeling right now.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  You were not meant to sit at home and watch bungee bob and tickle fights and arts and crafts with your kids.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  You're not. You're a man. You were designed to be a protector, provider, and presider. And your wife is designed, divinely designed, to be at home. To do the tickle fights, to do the arts and crafts, to do the nurturing, to do the supporting, to rub their boo-boos. That's, she's designed to do that. Now, let me throw some caveats in here. I'm not saying that she can't go into the workforce, and I'm not saying that you can't find a way that it might work for you at home, but you better understand what your role is, and it's not to do arts and crafts, it's to take them out hunting, it's to teach them to farm, to show them how to build buildings, it's to show them how the world works.

• 53:46Speaker 00

  I don't think you can do that as well if you're not in the world. What do you know about the corporate environment if you're not in the corporate environment?

• 53:55Speaker 00

  And, and also, help me understand this. It's okay for a woman, she's empowered her. When a woman leaves the home with her husband and her kids, because she doesn't want to be under their thumb, and then she goes for a man who cares nothing about her? Like, help me understand that. Help me understand why you're under the thumb of a man, when you partner with him as his wife, and you raise your children righteously, and you make that home beautiful, and a sanctuary, and a lovely place for your kids to be and your husband to come home to, and that's disempowering? But going into a workforce, where your boss says you have to be here at 8,

• 54:39Speaker 00

  and you can't leave till 5, and if you want to go to little Timmy's baseball game or little Sally's dance recital, then I'm gonna dock you, you're gonna get points, and you might get fired or get demoted. And how that's not disempowering? I don't understand. Help, help me understand that. At least your husband cares about you. And even if he doesn't, at least his interests are aligned. Do? So, I don't think it's gonna work. Again, this comes back to my abrasiveness.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 00

  But, but I don't think it's gonna work. I think you need to figure out a way to make more money. I think you need to figure out a way to go out and be the protector and provider that you have a desire to be. And I think it's worthwhile to, A, find a woman who wants to be at home, not as a demotion in her, but a promotion in it. And if you haven't found that woman, or you're already married to somebody, then I think it's worthwhile having a lot of good discussions about what life would look like if she stayed at home and raised the kids, and made the house a home, and turned this box of stick,

• 55:57Speaker 00

  and mud, and glue, and nails, into something that is lovely and beautiful, that you want to come to as a retreat from everything else the world offers to you. I think of a better thing for a woman to do. That's my opinion.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  You're just old fashioned. You're just old fashioned.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  I, yeah, I am. I'm, I am old fashioned. I'm a conservative. I'm a traditionalist. Because I think it works better. And I'll even tell you, I'm so convicted in this, Kip. I am, if you guys don't believe how convicted I am in this, let me tell you this story. When I went through a divorce, a little over three years ago, about three and a half years ago. I made sure that my finances were arranged in a way where my ex-wife can stay at home. And homeschool my children. If you question my commitment to what I'm telling you, you don't know the story.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  I could have very easily said, you're not getting this much, you're not doing this. She could have been forced to go back to work. The kids could have been forced to go back to school. I'm that convicted. That I created a financial sacrifice, a financial detriment because of how much I believe in what I just told you. And I didn't have to do that.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  Did.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  Well, and I, and for Judah, I think this really just comes down to the, the reality of it is, I think if we're honest with ourselves. This is where, this is our default makeup as men. This is where we, this is how we serve. Is in providing, right? And, and this is why, I mean, and like you mentioned already, the statistics around this are, are just insane. This is why men get depressed if they lose jobs or they're struggling financially. It's not like, oh, I, I don't have the boat. It's my worth as a man is being challenged. My ability to provide for my family.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Like my purpose is, is feeling like it's in question. That's why it's a big deal to men. Cause we're kind of built this way. And what's also interesting is, I mean, we could talk for another hour about all the dichotomy. You know, backwards thinking of society where we'll definitely say that, oh man, women should be in the workforce. You know, you're underneath a, a man's thumb if you're at home, yada, yada, yada. But that same group, guess what they'll, how they'll judge a man if they're a stay at home dad?

• 58:38Speaker 01

  You don't think that same social group is going, oh, what's wrong with you?

• 58:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  They absolutely do. So this isn't just our-

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Talking to your wife about it, telling her that you're a loser.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. So this is, this, this is, um, I don't know, there, there's many angles to this that makes us very, very difficult. And the fact that Judah, that you're asking this question tells me that it does bother you.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  You know.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  And so what, what can you do about it? Right? And, and don't follow to the social things about, you know, that you wanting to provide for your family is some evil, bad thing.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  I, I think you brought up a good point, Kip. Like, I went hard on that because again, I believe it to be true. So let's, let's just say the dynamic works because, because I'm not stupid, right? Like I'm also pragmatic about it.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. So let's say she's a, an NP, a nurse practitioner, or maybe she's even a doctor. And she's out there making 200 grand a year and you know, you're an entry level apprentice doing electrical work. You're making 60 a year. Like, let's not be stupid either, right?

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  But in the meantime, okay, she's out there making her money and doing the thing and helping with the family. I promise, number one, she's going to be resentful over time. Like in 10 years, she's going to be pissed at you. Because you stole all of her years that she had with her babies, or maybe she didn't even have kids. And she's upset about that. Like, I promise you that's going to happen.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  There's some, yeah, some resentment building.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  Of, of course. Um, you wouldn't feel that way if you had to go out in the workforce and she stayed at home. But she will feel that if she has to go out in the workforce and you get to stay home with the kids. I promise you. But use the time, just use the time wisely.

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  Do some online schooling, get some credentials. When I went to Iraq, I took all of my licensing stuff back to Iraq with me and a lot of guys were, some guys were studying, some guys were improving their life, some guys were improving their military career and that's great, and some guys were just wasting time. Watching endless amounts of 24, that was the, that was the show at the time, 24 with Kiefer, is it Kiefer Sutherland?

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  And so that's how they chose to spend their time, but I took all of my study materials for the insurance exams, for my, my exams, and so in between shifts, I was studying and I came back and passed those exams, and over the course of eight years, when I got back, I built this really lucrative financial planning process or practice that turned into what it is today with, with Order of Man. Because I used my time wisely. So if you're at a season in your life where it does practically make sense for her to be out working and for you not to, okay, I can understand that, but always be improving your situation and your station and get to a point that's going to be more advantageous for you and your family.

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  And you out earning the paycheck is going to be way better statistically even than your wife doing it.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Well, and how great is it if, if let's say she's working, she's a career woman, and then she says, hey, you know what, Drew, I want to have kids. That you can go, no problem.

• 1:02:09Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  We, we'll make that happen, right? I'm in a position where we can flip things around, you can stay at home and we have options available to us. But if you're not doing that, you may not ever have those options, right? Or, or growing a family may not even be on the table for you, or you may assume that it's not on the table. I think it's always on the table, but you might assume it's not on the table because of your position, right? And your station, so.

• 1:02:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, in kids is not a very marketable skill. It's a beautiful thing, don't get me wrong. It's just not a real marketable one.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. All right. Well, call to action. Connect with Mr. Mickler on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. And as always, you can learn more about the Iron Council, our men's group. That's theironcouncil.com to learn more. Any dates for another preview call or any other call to action?

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're doing one August 12th. Let me look here. Yes.

• 1:03:10Speaker 00

  Yep, Wednesday, August 12th at 8:00 PM Eastern. So if you want to get registered and signed up for that, we're about three weeks out. About three weeks out. Then head to orderofman.com/preview and you can get that figured out. But yeah, we'd love to see you there. Actually, I think it's theironcouncil.com/preview is what it is. Theironcouncil.com/preview. So check that out and I'd love to see you on that preview call.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Excellent.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  All right, guys. Appreciate you. Good questions today and hopefully for you as always, some things to consider and chew on. I don't think I'm always right, but 99% of the time I am, so I hope you take it. I'm only saying that in the spirit of what I know I'm good at and not good at.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  I'm probably 80%. I'll give myself a B. And you guys can determine for yourself because ultimately you have to live consequences of your choices, not me. So I hope I give you something to consider and I know Kip, you always do as well. You are my better half when it comes to the podcasting.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  I just don't take a stance on anything, so I'm always right.

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  Or always wrong, depending on how you look. All right, guys. Appreciate you. We'll be back on Friday. We're going to be talking about something on Friday. I haven't recorded yet. What was it? It's really good. I don't know. I can't remember, but I promise you it's good. I've got the framework in my phone right now and I'll be recording this afternoon. So make sure you turn in for whatever the hell it is I'm going to be talking about on Friday.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  All right, guys. Go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.