Pod Insights On Purpose with Jay Shetty The 5 Levels of Growth That You Can’t Skip, Miss or Avoid About this episode "Jay, how do I start?" is a question I get asked a lot. Whether you want to start making videos, launch a podcast or try anything new, the first step can be the hardest. After we start, we expect instant results or wonder why it isn't working.
Starting something is a process. As I've studied people I admire and am inspired by, I've observed 5-phases of growth. Listen in on this episode to learn how to recognize which phase of growth you're in and how to accelerate your growth remarkably.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:01 Jay Shetty? This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet,
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3:10 Jay Shetty? We think starting means doing, but actually, the process of starting begins with learning about something.
3:25 Jay Shetty? Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. You are in exactly the right place right now. Thank you so much for trusting me with your time. Thank you so much for being a part of this community. And one thing that I've been really thinking about, and this is what happens when I'm looking through your comments, when I'm looking through the reviews, when I'm looking through everything that you're sharing about what you're learning from the podcast. What we're genuinely creating is a conscious community of changemakers. Now, I feel like, Jay, what is that? Like, it's some crazy alliteration, but what does that mean? A conscious community of change makers is a community where people want to change their lives and the lives of others. And when I see your posts, I see that we're all trying and striving
4:10 Jay Shetty? to become the best versions of ourselves, but we also don't want to stop there. We want to make sure that we pass it on, we pay it forward, we give it away, because that's where real meaning, fulfillment, and power comes from. So, thank you for being a part of this community. Thanks for being a conscious change maker. Thank you for being someone who's dedicated to your growth and the growth of others. Just imagine, just imagine for a moment, if we changed everything by 1%, okay, 5%, maybe 10%. Imagine we changed everything by 10%, ourselves and others, how much would we experience a change in our lives? So, let me dive straight into it. Thank
4:54 Jay Shetty? you again for being here. Whatever you're doing right now, thank you for choosing on purpose with me, Jay Shetty. So, one of the questions I get asked a lot is, and you're probably thinking this, and I've seen this in the comments when I'm reading them, Jay, how do I start, right? How do I start blank? And you can fill in that blank, whatever it is. How do I start making videos? How do I start my business? How do I start finding my passion? How do I start writing a book? How do I launch a podcast? Or whatever it may be, whatever your blank is, even if it's not creative, how do I start performing at work? How do I start the process of getting a promotion?
5:35 Jay Shetty? Whatever it is, we all struggle with starting, right? We all struggle with starting. There's something about starting that's full of fear, anxiety, pressure, whatever it may be, but we feel blocked from starting. And I think we all experience this. And I'm guessing, I've never been in this situation. I was never a great runner. But if you just imagine when someone is waiting at the Olympics, or anything, before they're about to run, or before you're about to kick off a big game, or before you walk into a presentation, it's always, we've all had that experience, not just athletes, or musicians, or performers, we've all had that experience that all of the pain and the anxiety and the fear.
6:20 Jay Shetty? It's actually before we start. How many of you have noticed that? That it's always before we start? And that's why we usually get stuck before we start. Or when we start, we are wondering why it isn't working? Or why isn't going well or doing well? Right? We get fixated on, oh, now that I've started, why am I not winning? Why is this not already successful? Why is it not working? And we spend a lot of time looking for the one moment that everything changed. If you listen to podcasts, you look at articles, people are always asking like, when was that one moment where everything changed? When was that one time that something happened? And what was the one thing that happened that made all the difference? Or what's the one thing that we can do?
7:02 Jay Shetty? And the truth is that growth is far less about one thing and much more about a series of phases, stages and levels. Growth is so much about a community of moments, right? Like an addition of so many small micro moments that creates a shift in our lives. And therefore, change and growth are so much more about phases and stages and levels. And in my life, I've seen and observed that these five levels that I'm going to share with you today. And when I've looked at the lives of other people, when I've looked at the lives of people that I admire, that I'm inspired by,
7:45 Jay Shetty? and I've observed their life, I see these five level stages and phases as well. And the challenge is, we look at everything as binary, right? What I mean by that is, we either go to ourselves, either everything is going great or everything is going badly. Life is very binary. It's like black and white, left and right. It's just one or two options. So here you've got, in life, everything's either going great right now or everything's going badly right now. And we tell either of those stories. And this is a really simplistic but limiting view on life, right? That narrative can quickly become our reality. Thinking everything is going right can lead to complacency. And thinking everything is going wrong can lead to depression.
8:28 Jay Shetty? So what we need to do is improve our ability to diagnose what stage or phase we are in and live according to that stage and phase. Let me explain what I mean by that. Levels of growth are like seasons in the year. We live differently in different seasons. Like, school always started in autumn, right? We know that we celebrate Christmas in the winter. We adapt. For example, in winter, you wear different things than you do in summer. In spring, you focus on different things than you do in autumn. It's more natural to start something in spring and it's more natural to see something flourish in summer, just like nature does.
9:11 Jay Shetty? And so the seasons impact our action. Now, let's look at that as growth, right? Growth also has seasons. And there are five seasons, not four. There are five seasons. And one of them, I guess, is a bit of a circular season. So there are five seasons. They are learn, experiment, perform, struggle, thrive. And at any point, we're in one of these phases, right? And the biggest challenges, and I'll come to this later, but one of the biggest challenges is that we always want to be in thrive mode. We always want to be in, you know, this mode of just like, everything's crushing it, everything's going in our direction, everything's amazing.
9:55 Jay Shetty? But we forget that learn, experiment, perform, struggle, and thrive are five levels of growth that you can't skip, miss, or avoid. And they work best when they lead from one to the other. Now, whatever you want to pursue, these will be the five levels you go through. Anything you want to tackle, break it down into these levels. And these levels will continue to repeat in our lives. They're cycles. So I want to dive deeply into each one of them, help you unpack and understand how to go into these zones and these modes and make the most out of them, and also why they're so important. So one of the biggest challenges I'm saying is,
10:38 Jay Shetty? we don't actually know when we're meant to be in which zone, because we always want to be in the zone where everything's going our way. But actually, if we reflect, we realize, well, maybe I just need to learn. So learn is actually the first place we start. We think starting means doing. But actually, the process of starting begins with learning about something, right? This step is so often missed, skipped, or avoided because we believe we already know something, or we don't really think we need to learn anything until we're in the middle of a crisis. How many times have you experienced this in your own life? Like, I'll give a very basic example. No one ever reads the manual, right? You don't read the manual for your phone. You don't read the manual for your car.
11:23 Jay Shetty? You don't read the manual for your washing machine. Most people are like, what's a manual? Does it even exist? I just use YouTube, right? We don't look at manuals, but when something goes wrong, you go to the manual. So with our lives, there is no manual in that sense. But the point is that we can learn, research about something well before getting involved, way before, sorry, getting actually engaged with it. And this is actually the first step of anything.
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12:41 Jay Shetty? That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand.
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14:18 Jay Shetty? So often, we launch something, we start something without doing learning and research. And I believe learning and research is a really important phase. So before I start anything, I learn about it. And this phase is so crucial to the rest of the levels that missing it means you're less likely to figure things out. Right? Learning means speaking to people who are doing what you want to do. So before I launched my podcast, I spoke to so many people who had a podcast. I reached out to hosts. I reached out to people who had podcasts they just started, people who had had podcasts for like 10 years. Like, I spoke to a variety of people. And the amazing thing here is that I got the opportunity to ask them questions like, how did you start?
15:02 Jay Shetty? How many episodes did you record a week? Do you partner with anyone? How do you book guests? And this is what I call logistical, tactical and practical questions. Right? Logistical, tactical and practical questions. So now we're going deep into how do you learn? And this is what I'm saying, whatever you're thinking of starting, whatever you're thinking of doing, whatever you're thinking of building and creating, do this phase first. Don't just skip and avoid this phase. And actually, if you try and skip and avoid this phase, you usually never start because you feel too scared. And learning and research, right? The reason why we say knowledge is power and knowledge can help us overcome fear is because when you learn and you research, you gain more awareness through the process. So I ask these logistical, tactical and practical questions.
15:47 Jay Shetty? But here's the interesting thing. I also ask questions like, what is your favorite part of the process? What do you hate about the process? What do you wish you knew when you started? Now, these are emotional and mental questions. And one of the biggest mistakes we make is we don't ask people. Or if we do ask them, we ask them vague questions like, what's your best advice for me? Or what's your best advice to start a podcast? Now, this doesn't allow someone to give you the best response. Make it easy for them. They're super busy people. So when you're asking people for help, when you say something like, oh, I'd love to have your advice on this, when you don't get specific about your questions, you don't get specific answers.
16:32 Jay Shetty? And the other challenge is, we only ask logistical or tactical, practical questions, but we don't ask the emotional and mental questions. Because sometimes, when you ask the emotional and mental questions, you will learn so much more about what you're going to love about the process and what you're not. So when I speak to People in the podcast place, before I started, people used to tell me the part that they absolutely loved was sitting down and doing the interview, learning from people. And that's what I love too. When I'm sitting down and interviewing all the incredible people we've had on the podcast, it's so, so meaningful to me, right? Just in the last two weeks, we had Liza Koshy, we had Brian Grazer, we had some amazing
17:14 Jay Shetty? episodes when we started with my wife, with Gisele, with Russell Brand, with Novak Djokovic. And I loved that process. But people also told me one of the things they struggled with in the process was making shows up on every platform and all the more admin kind of side of it. So I've been able to find partners and help me work through that too. So what I'm saying is that it's so important to learn and research. And learning also includes reading books and listening to podcasts or audiobooks about whatever it is that you want to learn and start. You can cut your TV time, your on-demand TV time, use your commute time whilst you're cooking, whatever it takes to hear from people who've done it and read about it and learn about it.
17:57 Jay Shetty? I remember before I started writing my book, I read a few awesome books that truly helped. And one was You Are a Writer by Jeff Goins, I believe his name is, You Are a Writer. And learning also includes courses, workshops, seminars, spending a weekend or a week learning is brilliant. And learning is a phase of life. If you're thinking right now in your life, nothing is working out right now, or everything you try is not reaping results, chances are you should go back to learning. That's just as simple as it is. If you're feeling right now that you don't have the skills, you don't have the talent, you don't know what's going on, you're confused, you're lost, start by learning.
18:41 Jay Shetty? Figure out what you want to learn about and get learning. And learning is obviously something that we should always be doing. Of course, it's something that should be continuous. But there are certain moments in life where we need to go more deeply into learning than ever before. And don't avoid it. Don't avoid this step.
19:02 Jay Shetty? It's such a powerful step because even if you did the learning process and realized that you didn't want to do the thing you learned about, well, guess what? You've just learned a skill that's going to be useful in your future. You've just learned more about yourself in the process. And you saved yourself the time, money, the energy, effort that could have been wasted in actually building something, doing something. So many people before doing something, they just start, you know, they, they launch a website or they launch the podcast without figuring out the process, whatever it may be. And so there are many ways to get that right. And learning is step one. Now, step two is experiment. Step two is using what you have learned and experimenting with it.
19:44 Jay Shetty? For example, if I hear that authors start by writing, say, I don't know, 500 words a day, I would then test that for a week and see how I feel. So now you're looking at that knowledge that you learned and you're like, okay, most authors are writing 500 words per day. You're now testing that knowledge, right? You're putting it into practice. Now, maybe through this experiment, you'll find that you actually can write 1,000 words a day. Or maybe you're going to do this experiment for a week and realize you can only write 250 words per day. Maybe I'll realize I don't enjoy writing at all, or maybe I'll realize I need to find new methods.
20:24 Jay Shetty? In the experiment phase, you don't judge yourself, but you allow the experiments to show you what works for you and what doesn't. This is the key about having phases in life where you're experimenting. You remove judgment. You remove criticism. You remove the guilt of getting it wrong. You know you're experimenting. And so when I'm in an experimenting phase, I remember when I first started creating videos, I used to create one video a week and they were experiments. Now, when I used to put them out there and I was experimenting with, do people like these messages? Do people connect with it? Is this really helping people? And the truth is that I would get a lot of feedback from people around me, but I realized
21:09 Jay Shetty? I knew I was experimenting, so I wasn't expecting it to be perfect. I wasn't expecting everyone to write to me and just be like, Jay, that's the best thing we've ever seen, because I was experimenting. But if you don't give yourself that space to experiment. Sometimes you get eaten up and defeated by your own guilt. You get eaten up and defeated by your own judgment of yourself. And so this is really, really important. And the best example that I always love is, as Edison famously stated, I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work. This is your time. We usually don't do this because we're scared of looking bad or messing up.
21:50 Jay Shetty? But if it is entitled, if it's, sorry, if it's, if it's titled an experiment, then you give yourself time to learn.
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23:40 Speaker 01 Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.
23:44 Speaker 02 On October 2nd.
23:45 Speaker 01 Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.
23:50 Speaker 02 Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.
23:57 Speaker 03 What would happen if I stopped growing? You starve, you freeze to death, that's what.
24:01 Speaker 02 With great power comes great deniability.
24:04 Speaker 03 I'm not the first then.
24:06 Speaker 02 Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without terror.
24:14 Jay Shetty? When you know you're in an experiment phase, you're not worried about perfecting anything. You're not worried about what anyone's opinions are. You're not worried about what anyone is saying. It's just about iterating and trying new things and learning and experimenting, right? You're learning by making mistakes. You're learning by not judging yourself. So that is step two. So in the example of writing a book, it may be that you start writing blogs and putting them out there, right? Maybe that you're writing short posts, whatever it means. It's making the smallest version, what's usually known in technology as a MVP, a Minimum Viable Product. What's the most basic version that you can test? There's no point of you writing a whole book
24:59 Jay Shetty? if you can't hold someone's attention in 260 or 280 characters on Twitter, whatever it is, right? Like, you can't, you just can't go to that level straight away without testing something in a smaller way. And that way, you take the pressure off yourself, right? So that's step number two. Now, step number three is called perform. This is when you now get into a rhythm. You've been through the experiment phase, so you know what works and what doesn't work. You know what you love and what you don't love. You know what's kind of working and what's not working. And you start performing. You get into a rhythm, right? Sometimes in life, things are not exciting. You're not growing, but you're not crushing it, and you're not.
25:43 Jay Shetty? But you're building consistency and steadiness. That's what performance is all about. You get into a routine, you get into a groove. You start delivering, right? You start seeing repeated results. So in the learn phase, you're just learning. There are no results. In the experiment phase, you're seeing random results. In perform stage, you're seeing repeated results, consistent results. You're seeing the same thing week in, week out. You're getting into a rhythm, you're getting into consistency, you're getting into steadiness, you're getting into a groove. It may not be the most exciting stage, it may not be the most, you know, enthralling stage, but it is a stage that is so powerful and important because it gives you confidence,
26:26 Jay Shetty? it gives you something to look to, something to show that you've developed something that works. It provides you with the energy you need to move forward. So don't, this is a stage we try and jump to, like this is the stage we wanna start at. So we usually try and avoid learning and experimenting and just get into performance mode, and it doesn't work because your performance is only as strong as learning and experimenting, right? It's only as strong as those two. Like, I really hope you're writing down notes right now. This is one of those ones that you need to have notes on. So if you haven't got notes, I highly recommend that you come back to this episode with a notebook if you can't take notes right now. Take a screenshot of exactly where you are on the podcast so you can come back to it too.
27:07 Jay Shetty? But perform stage, don't try and jump to it, it will feel harder, work up to it. Now, step number four is struggle. Everyone always feels they're in this phase. The reason why I put it in there, and this is more linked to all of them, because they're struggling in learning, they're struggling in experimenting, they're struggling in performing, this is always going to be there, right? This is always going to be there. So you have to accept that there will just be those days, right? There will just be those days where it's, that, that, that, the struggle, there's struggle in each of these elements. So don't try and avoid struggle.
27:48 Jay Shetty? Get to know that struggle better, understand that struggle better, understand that struggle intimately. The deeper you understand that struggle, the more you can work with it, rather than work against it. Usually, all of us are working against our struggle because we haven't really got to know it, whereas when you get to know your struggle, you're now working with your struggle. So don't try and avoid struggle at all. And
28:14 Jay Shetty? When you talk about struggle, one thing you have to realize is don't just think that you're always in struggle, because you don't want to just say like, "Oh, my life is just full of struggle, like I'm just in a struggle phase right now." Because guess what that means? That phase will be never-ending, because there'll always be something to struggle about, and that phase is something that you are extending by your language, right? By you saying this is a struggling phase, you'll just create more struggle in your life. So, it's important to recognize that it exists, but it's important to not make it your existence, right? It's important to recognize that it exists, but you can't make it your existence. You can't make it your ultimate reality. You have to realize
28:58 Jay Shetty? it exists, but it doesn't have to be your whole reality. And now, the fifth stage is thrive. The stage we all want to be in, the stage we all want to experience, it's when you're winning all the awards, it's when you're top of the table, it's when you're getting recognized, it's when you're getting acknowledged, it's when everything's going in your direction, it's you're feeling all the momentum, and guess what? This is 1% of the experience. I've spent time with people who've won Emmys, who've won Grammys, who've won Oscars, who've won Streamys. I've spent time with people who've won all of
29:40 Jay Shetty? these things, and the truth is that that's 1% of the experience. Someone turning up an award show and giving a speech, that isn't their life. That's one night of the year where they gave that speech. And we think that's their whole life. We think that that person is celebrating and celebrated all the time, right? We think somebody is celebrating and celebrated all the time. But the truth is, they're not. They're working all the time. They're building all the time. They're creating all the time. They're learning, they're experimenting, they're performing, and they're struggling, and that's why they thrive for that 1%. That's the difference. They're not celebrating and being celebrated 99% of the time.
30:25 Jay Shetty? They are learning, experimenting, performing and struggling. Thrive is 1% of the experience. Don't live for the award show, don't live for the followers, don't live for the fame, don't live for the lists. That stuff is a byproduct of the first four and it's the shortest-lived experience out of all of them. We spend far more of our time learning and experimenting than you do thriving in terms of the external sense. But of course, thriving is also an internal fulfilling, meaningful expression of, or receiving of the success that you had and the achievements you've had. But it's important to recognize that there will be a year where you're just thriving,
31:10 Jay Shetty? but that is also going to be the year you go back to learning, right? Most people who are thriving, they're not just thriving for a whole year, they're going back to learning. And I see that all the time, that again, if you're just doing it for thriving, you get complacent and then you lose that. So here are some lessons with these five stages. The first one is, in any given year, know which one you're in. Know that you need to learn. Know that it may be a year you need to experiment, or three months that you need to experiment. It doesn't have to be a year, it can be one month, three months, six months, nine months, or a year, that you're in a phase, but you choose which phase you're in. And most of us, like I said, are trying to be in perform phase, or we say we're in struggle phase, or we really want to be in thrive phase, and we miss the two birthing
31:55 Jay Shetty? phases of learn and experiment. So recognize when you need to be in learn and experiment, know which one you're in. Number two, one of the lessons from all of these phases that I've shared is, like I said, don't, don't force thriving, right? Don't force thriving. It's, it's something that comes as a natural byproduct of the four. The other one I wanted to share with you is focus on doing the thing in that zone, right? Really go deep into learning when you're learning, really go deep and immersive and engage into experimenting. Don't just hope that you'll naturally find the answers, right?
32:38 Jay Shetty? You have to ask the question sincerely to find the answers. And number five is start the cycle again regularly. Like this is a cycle you want to go through regularly. It's not just a cycle that you do once and then you're there and then you get to the top and you thrive and then you're thriving forever. It doesn't work like that. You have to continue to go through the cycle and you don't want to be in a place where you don't. So, one of the things for me, I've always had is layered. So, whenever I'm performing in one thing, at the same time I'm learning something else, right? Because I'm performing, because I'm in a groove, I now have the mind space to start learning something else, right? So, whenever you get into performance with
33:20 Jay Shetty? something, it's time to learn something else. So, when I got into a groove with the videos I was creating and the content I was creating, I was learning about podcasts. And now that we're in a groove with the podcast and I know what the process is like and I've been doing this for a certain amount of time, I've been learning and working on the book. So, you're always building that way. And this way, you're always excited. You don't get brought down by the, there's always going to be an area of your life that doesn't work out. And that's the thing, there might be an area of your life where the performance struggles, but then you're learning something else. So, you've always got something to be excited about and something to celebrate. So, these are the five levels of growth that you can't skip, miss, or avoid. I really hope you
34:01 Jay Shetty? enjoyed this podcast. I'd love for you to apply this to anything you're struggling with right now, anything you're trying to break through, anything that you're trying to start. Share your insights on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, wherever it is that you're sharing. I can't wait to see them. Make sure you go back and listen to this podcast, make notes on these points and principles, and I can't wait for you to listen to next week's episode. Thank you so much.
34:36 Speaker 01 Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.
34:39 Speaker 02 On October 2nd.
34:41 Speaker 01 Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.
34:45 Speaker 02 Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.
34:53 Speaker 03 What would happen if I stopped going? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.
34:57 Speaker 02 With great power comes great deniability.
35:00 Speaker 03 I'm not the first to that.
35:01 Speaker 02 Digger. See the trailer online. Only begins October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.
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