Telepathy Tapes Creator Ky Dickens Reveals Shocking NEW Evidence on the Link Between Telepathy and Non-Speakers with Autism

Do you think telepathy is real? Have you heard of non-speaking kids using telepathy? What if non-speaking individuals with autism could communicate through telepathy — and science is starting to prove it? In this episode of On Purpose with Jay Shetty, award-winning filmmaker Ky Dickens takes us on a groundbreaking journey, where non-speaking individuals discover they can communicate telepathically. Ky shares powerful stories of families uncovering untapped abilities in their loved ones, challenging traditional communication methods. As science begins to validate these experiences, the potential for a new, wordless form of connection unfolds. Ky and Jay explore the intersection of science and spirituality, and why unlocking our own intuition may be more possible than we think. Don’t miss this episode! In this interview, you'll learn: How to Develop Your Intuition and Deepen Consciousness How to Communicate Telepathically with Non-Speaking Individuals How to Support and Empower Non-Speaking Individuals with Autism How to Create a More Inclusive World for People with Autism How to Explore the Science of Telepathy and Consciousness How to Embrace the Unknown and Shift Your Perception of Reality By challenging our assumptions, we free ourselves from limiting beliefs and make space for new possibilities. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Join Jay for his first ever, On Purpose Live Tour! Tickets are on sale now. Hope to see you there! What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:55 The Social Justice Documentary Filmmaker 06:08 Testing the Theory of Telepathy 08:30 The Limitations of Autism 10:32 What is Apraxia? 11:52 Listening to a Non-Speaking Child 13:29 How Does Telepathy Works? 17:32 How Materialism Has Dictated Our Consciousness 19:41 Remote Viewing Using Psy Abilities 26:19 Telepathic Links Based on Love 29:02 Savant Skills: Extra Sensory Perception (ESP) 33:09 All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 35:26 Consciousness Sharing is More than Telepathy 40:35 Finding Your Life's Purpose 45:00 Science is Catching Up with Spirituality 49:57 Resistance Against Positive Change 51:40 Telepathy is Real 55:16 How Telepathy Works in Animals 57:47 Communication is Basic Human Right 01:03:12 Daily Magic of Telepathy 01:05:04 The Mental Telegraphy 01:06:58 Telepathic Dreams and Lucid Dreaming 01:08:36 Telepathic Conversations 01:11:15 Connection Through the Hill 01:14:15 Apraxia: The Mind and Body Disconnect 01:16:55 Exploration of the Consciousness 01:20:26 Ethical Approach to Studying Non-Speakers 01:25:39 Lessons From The Telepathy Tapes Episode Resources: Ky Dickens | Website Ky Dickens | X Ky Dickens | Instagram Ky Dickens | LinkedIn Ky Dickens | IMDB The Telepathy Tapes See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:28Jay Shetty?

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• 2:31Jay Shetty?

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• 3:15Speaker 01

  It was remarkable to be in that room and see someone reading someone else's mind over and over and over again. When you see it, you can't unsee it. One of the best remote viewers was the Burbank police chief. CIA was in his office and saw that he had like marked on the map where submarines were. Well, that's alarming.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Have you listened to the telepathy tapes? Non-speaking children on the autism spectrum are able to read the minds of people.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  It is mind blowing. Have you heard of the telepathy tapes?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  I hope that you go listen to these tapes. If you want to watch a mind blowing documentary, you need to see this. Kai is the host of a new podcast series called The Telepathy Tapes.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Please welcome Kai Dickens.

• 3:57Jay Shetty?

  How would you describe or explain what telepathy actually means?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Telepathy historically is reading someone's mind. You know exactly what they're thinking. That's what I thought this was at first. Parents started saying right away, this isn't just sheer telepathy. We think we might be sharing a consciousness or no languages that they've never learned. Well, how is that possible? Or tell the future and accurately predict something is going to happen. The amount of messages parents were telling me that they were receiving from the other side through their child. Was wild, but I think we are working with consciousness coming in from somewhere else.

• 4:26Jay Shetty?

  What have you found in your research looking at animals and telepathy?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  That is a beautiful element to this. There are mental fields around certain animals.

• 4:34Jay Shetty?

  As you can ask about the connection between dreams and telepathy, has there been any connection there?

• 4:52Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that I'm really excited to talk about. These are the themes, the ideas that I really want On Purpose community to get exposed to. They're conversations that I believe we should be having, need to be having as humanity, and they push us forward. They challenge us. They maybe make us feel uncomfortable, but they propel our thinking forward. And today's guest is none other than Kai Dickens, an award-winning acclaimed filmmaker and podcast host known for diving into complex social issues to spark change. Kai is the host of The Telepathy Tapes, which is a new podcast

• 5:35Jay Shetty?

  going absolutely viral. If you don't know about it, I don't know where you've been. Kai digs into the incredible abilities of non-speaking individuals with autism, uncovering mind-blowing stories of telepathy beyond different dimensions. The series invites viewers to challenge their ways and rethink what communication really means and what the human mind is truly capable of. Please welcome to On Purpose Kai Dickens. Kai, thank you so much for being here.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 6:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's so nice to meet you. And I want to dive straight in. And the question I want to ask Kai before we get into it is, who were you before you dove into The Telepathy Tapes? Before you dove into this work, tell me a bit about who you were, what you believed, what you valued, and what your system of thinking was.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  I was a social justice filmmaker. So I was working on documentaries that were really diving into complex social issues, right, to drive change. So whether that was healthcare access, or paid family leave, affordability and access, just things like this that were not in the spiritual realm at all. And I've always been very curious. I've always been a seeker. I've always had a deeply spiritual side of myself that was A bit gun-shy around organized religion because I've also seen the pain that's caused. But I was just plowing forward with doc films that I was trying to make a difference around. And the telepathy tapes entering that world and being immersed in the lives of non-speakers for the past three and a half years has completely altered me, every fiber of me.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  And it's made me see the world entirely differently.

• 7:10Jay Shetty?

  Can you tell us how you first discovered it? Because like you said, your work was somewhat different to what this is now. And I want to know how it first came across your table.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  So as a documentary filmmaker, what often happens is before you even get funding for a project, you might be working and researching and immersed in this world for two, I mean, for months, if not years, right? And so you have to really love what you're looking at. And right in between, after my last film, I had just moved to California, was trying to figure out what I was going to do next. And then I lost two very good friends in the prime of their lives. Like the type of people that, you know, they lost, they left kids behind, just unbelievable people. And I had a friend stop by to bring flowers and she's not deeply religious, she's just very well-read and I would say she's spiritual. And she said to me, you know, they're just right here. And I'm like, what do you mean they're just right here? And she's like, they're just right here. And I thought, how can you say that with such conviction? And she said, you just start reading.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  If you start reading, you'll see that all the material is out there around where we're going, what we're doing, what this all means. A lot of research has been done. She knew I had kind of had a science mind. And she goes, so just start looking. So I made a commitment at that moment. Okay, I don't know what I'm doing next for my next project, which I thought was going to be a film at the time. But whatever it is, I want to answer these big questions. I don't want it to be about social issues in America anymore. I want it to be about human issues and why we're here and what we're doing and what this all means. Because I was trying to figure out, where are my friends? And I started diving into books about animal consciousness, plant communication, Ian Stevenson's work around reincarnation and children, and was reading everything I could get my hands on. And that also included listening to some podcasts.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  And there's one I loved called The Cosmos and You. And they did an interview with Dr. Diane Hennessy-Powell, who was a neuroscientist, Johns Hopkins-educated, Harvard, she worked at Harvard, who had been studying. Widespread claims of telepathy in non-speakers with autism. And I, the something hit me like a lightning bolt. And I always feel, I deeply believe that if something is intended for you, it won't miss you. And in that moment, I just thought, this is, whatever is here, this is it. This has the answer. And I think part of it too was the, my brother's high functioning on the spectrum. And the thing that I know, just my own experience with autism, is this sense of telling the truth. You know, there's not a lot of jockeying for ego-driven purposes.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  There tends to be a deep truth-telling, which is one of the most beautiful things, I think, about autism in some respects. And so I felt the messengers in this case are the most trustworthy and unassuming. So that kind of led me down this path.

• 9:45Jay Shetty?

  Had you always felt that way about all your projects before as well? That there was always this very clear?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  I think most of my films that are self-driven, you know, there are some that are work for hire. Someone just has you direct it. But the ones that I generate tend to be deeply personal, deeply specific. I'm trying to answer or heal something. But there were two films that I've made where I remember, or projects where I would actually start praying through it. Like, if I'm going to die, just please let me get to the finish line of this, because I'm intended to do this. If I don't make it, then it just feels so big. And this was one of those, there was two in my life. And the first was my first film, Fish Out of Water, and this one.

• 10:21Jay Shetty?

  Wow. To describe for someone who doesn't know anything about this, how would you describe or explain what telepathy actually means?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Telepathy historically is, right, reading someone's mind, you know exactly what they're thinking. So, or you could hear their thoughts as though someone was speaking it. And that's what I thought this was at first. And I thought there could be a scientific explanation around the, you know, when often a sight is muted, other senses heighten. And in this case, it feels a lot deeper. And in fact, a lot of the parents started saying right away, this isn't just sheer telepathy. We think we might be sharing a consciousness, or there's some sort of merging going on. It feels deeper and much more complex than simple mind-reading.

• 11:01Jay Shetty?

  Wow. And is it mind reading, they're feeling everything from as I've heard and seen of like numbers and places and letters, or is it also emotions and feelings? And what are we seeing that spectrum being?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, you know, again, it depends on the individual. But from a lot of the non-speakers I've met, I'd say the gifts can be varied. There are some parents who will say, my child will know exactly what I'm doing during the day when they're at school. They'll know what I'm thinking, where I went, who I met with. And what is that? That's not telepathy, that's something bigger, right? There's some parents who say if I, one of my favorite stories is one of the non-speakers, once he started communicating, knew all the things there was to know about Harry Potter or different books. And the parents thought, how? And this individual said, I read them through my sister's mind when she was reading them. And so just really fascinating things. What's, is that mind reading or is it like fully? And then there's been teachers who say, my students have said that they can see through my eyes or hear through my ears.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  And it feels as though they might be using my neurology in some way because their neurology is unreliable. It's helpful and grounding to utilize mine. And so I'm just telling you what other people have told me, and the reports are varied and wide. But something I've heard from many teachers in particular, or parents, is that like sometimes the thought will occur and it's like, well, where did that thought even generate? Which makes you wonder like, is it coming, is consciousness coming from a different place and we're tapping into it together? The parents and teachers who are in this world, they just have so many questions. Like, what is this? Because it does feel bigger than typical, I'm reading your mind, telepathy.

• 12:35Jay Shetty?

  So wait, did you reach out to Dr. Powell? How did that go?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Okay, so yeah, I reached out to Dr. Powell. And I said, look, I'm a filmmaker, I'm very interested in what you've been uncovering. I'd love to get to know you. We did a few Zoom calls and then I flew up to meet her. And it was wonderful because one of the first things I did is I wanted to see like, what's the scope of this? And I asked if she wouldn't mind reading some emails off from parents. And of course, you know, HIPAA law, she can't show me the names. But I saw in her inbox, like the folder of so many emails from parents. And I thought, good grief, this is like. Really big. And she started reading some of the emails. And of course, I think anyone walking into this has a healthy dose of skepticism. I mean, telepathy seems like a superpower in the Spider-Man movie. It doesn't feel real. And so, but these parents, one after the other, were saying,

• 13:20Speaker 01

  "Look, I didn't believe my wife, and I tested this myself, and I'm a doctor, so I couldn't fathom this, but this is real, this is happening." And so many emails from people like that. It's not that they were baked in believing. They were coming to Dr. Powell with their own questions around, "How is this possible? Can someone answer this for me?" And they were coming from all over the world. At that point, I realized that like, the only place these people had right now was Dr. Powell's inbox, that most of them hadn't ever met each other. And it felt like the strings weren't being tied together yet, you know? And Dr. Powell has her own practice, like, she's a researcher and scientist. It just felt like this was so much bigger than, honestly, either of us, and certainly the families. And then I started meeting some of the families. Dr. Powell introduced me to a few.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  And I wanted to find one that she'd never met before, never tested, to test myself. So, same thing, like, it's hard to believe. And I wanted to not, to pick the place. I wanted to bring my own cues, set it up, make sure that we covered anything reflective, so that we could test this and see if it bears out. And it was remarkable to be in that room and see someone reading someone else's mind over and over and over again, to the point within like, an hour, where you're like, this is not boring, but just like, it became, "Okay, she can do it, cool." Like, "Let's try this, let's try this, let's try..." You know, just kept kind of pushing the envelope. And this, and young girl Mia could read her mom's mind. Anything we showed her mom, she could tell you. You know, and then I met more families and more families, and kept seeing it over and over and over again,

• 14:47Speaker 01

  to the point where now I'm like, "Well, that's self-evident." And I think the parents are there too. It's not, they're like, "We don't need anyone to prove this is happening. We need to know why this is happening."

• 14:55Jay Shetty?

  That's their question.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:57Jay Shetty?

  How were these parents discovering it in the first place? What was their...

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean...

• 15:01Jay Shetty?

  What was their process?

• 15:02Speaker 01

  I think the, to me, is like, the most beautiful and part of the story is it's really based in love. I mean, for so many of these parents, they have children that are diagnosed with something that is often like, very hope-stealing in terms of the diagnosis. And I think often there's doctors telling them, "Your child will never be competent, won't learn beyond a certain level. They might not connect with you, they won't ever speak." And I don't think these parents are given much hope. And to love someone without getting a lot of, you know, physical or verbal feedback around like, I love you, thank you back is very difficult. So it's the ultimate sacrifice these parents are making. And so many of them have been told again, their child will never speak. And somewhere along the line, most of them, people at least that we featured,

• 15:46Speaker 01

  have discovered spelling to communicate, which is a method for non-speakers to communicate by pointing to letters. And that's a gross motor skill, whereas talking is a fine motor skill. So if you can't talk, it's okay if you can point. Often, these parents would see this and think, that's not my kid, because my kid is still, you know, banging their head against the wall or maybe even smearing feces, just really difficult behaviors. And these parents are thinking, there's no way it's my kid. Often, like the deepest leap of hope, not wanting to have your heart broken again, these parents would try, bring their child to learn to spell. And it's often time consuming and such sacrifice and such practice. And their child got there. And there's a point which is called getting open on the board, where you're not just answering a yes or no question or filling in a blank, where you start driving the conversation yourself.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  And when these children became open, pretty, you know, pretty soon thereafter, they started saying things about being able to read minds or knowing what their parent is thinking. And of course, when you first hear that, there's kind of that like, oh, wait, really? And, and what happened in most of these cases is the parents would do some tests and do their own experiments and then end up with a ton of questions. Search about this on the internet. Up until now, there was nothing about it out there. And usually they would find Dr. Powell.

• 16:59Jay Shetty?

  Did Dr. Powell ever explain why this specifically existed for non-speakers?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  No, but I think what a lot of parents believe, and I think teachers too, is that most of the non-speakers that we're featuring have apraxia, which is where your mind and body are not connected. So if you have apraxia and can't control your behaviors, that doesn't get you very far. Because that's a big thing I want people to take away is like, this is not about autism. I, I never talk about it as being about autism. It's about apraxia and not being connected to your body.

• 17:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  That's the... That's the thing that's missing. And in fact, a lot of parents are like, I don't think my kid has autism. We have this big wide tent of how we diagnose this. And people will say it's autism. But no, it's apraxia. And that's the mind body disconnect. So a lot of it is like, the diagnosis could be totally wrong, too. And that's when I realized, okay, this isn't just like a telepathy thing. This isn't about a biological heightened sense. It felt to me, and this is where I landed, is that this is a spiritual gift. And it's a, and there's a bouquet of them, that for some reason, the non-speaking individuals with apraxia, the mind body disconnect, seem easier to tap into. Then during COVID, they had to self teach their children at home. And then they were shocked at how much their kid knew. But no one ever spent the time to,

• 18:09Speaker 01

  because a lot of the teachers might not have thought that these people are in there either. So COVID was a huge motivator for a lot of these changes when where parents saw, my kid is in there, and they can spell.

• 18:20Jay Shetty?

  Has there been any examples of any parents who weren't communicating with their non-speakers, and then maybe through your work, or Dr. Powell's work, kind of become aware of this, and then tried to experiment and experience where they didn't realize that their non-speaking child could talk to them in this way by spelling?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  For sure. I mean, we've had, our inbox has been the most delightfully joyful thing, because so many of the emails we're getting is, are people being like, I did not ever think my child could spell. I didn't think they're in there. And then I heard these other stories of parents who felt the same way. And now I'm getting my child to spell. But the best ones are, I mean, they're not the best ones. They're all the best. But another really fun thing that we're getting are videos from parents saying, my child is spelling. I never thought in a million years they're telepathic. So then I started doing tests. And we tested with four numbers. And here's the video, they could do it. And here's nine numbers, and they could do it. And here's 22 numbers, and they could do it. And so those are really fun, that parents are suddenly doing like telepathy tests with their kids. And then the other thing that's really beautiful is, there's parents who, having listened to the telepathy tapes, I

• 19:22Speaker 01

  think their children realized, okay, my parent is open to this. Just like you, you're not going to go talk about something to someone if you think they're going to judge you, or be scared of you, or whatever. So what we're hearing a lot on the ground from parents and teachers is that Because they listened, the non-speaking student or nephew or child in their life suddenly feels safe, saying, "Hey, I can do this too," or "Here's what's up," or "Here's all of me, let me invite you in." And they've said that the world has just expanded in this beautiful way, knowing that that like, it's a safe space now to be fully who you are, which includes those gifts for some non-speakers, so.

• 19:58Jay Shetty?

  Up until now, what kind of responses have those questions met?

• 20:02Speaker 01

  I don't know if science has like, fully done all the research. I mean, they haven't done any research on this really yet to my, I mean, that's not true. There's been telepathy research and psi research and precognition research that's been happening for a long time, which is pretty conclusive. And however, the gifts of the non-speakers, I think this is a new frontier for science. And that's one of the ethical things that I think everyone needs to consider greatly is like, how do we research this? Because what I have found, and if you think of like a Jane Goodall, right? Like, the way she did science is she'd go spend time for months, you know, with the chimps until she finally observed what their life was really like, because she immersed herself in it, right? And it's like, if you're gonna go watch a beautiful lightning bug sinking up in nature,

• 20:46Speaker 01

  you wouldn't bring them into a lab. You'd go and watch and immerse. And my plea is that scientists will take off their lab coats, pick up a letterboard, learn how to do this, immerse themselves with a non-speaker, and they will see and experience and can ask the questions. Because I think the non-speakers have a lot to offer, and they can talk about this themselves, what's going on. But I've been hearing a lot of chatter online about like, "Put them in a Faraday cage and put them in two separate rooms and do this." And it's like, I don't know if that's gonna be the most beautiful, helpful, empowering way to research this.

• 21:19Jay Shetty?

  I do appreciate your insight on immersive observation. Especially, I like your analogy of thinking about it. As if you're watching something in nature, and you have to see it in its own space and its own habitat and its own environment where it naturally functions and isn't put into this space. And I've always felt and known that there's so much more that we're capable of, that we don't know. How do we draw the difference and distinction between this and intuition and some of the other things that we may be more familiar with as a society? How is this so different?

• 21:56Speaker 01

  I don't think it is different. And I think that all of these things, which, you know, I have learned are called Psy-abilities, P S I, I think, come from the same place. And in the telepathy tapes in episode six, we really look at the science and how our world has been understood. And everything is this framework of what we call materialism, this idea that what's real is what can be observed and measured. And materialism has dictated our thinking for centuries. And most of materialism is right. I don't think it's wrong. We shouldn't throw away our textbooks entirely. However, at the very tippy top of, you know, after you have physiology and biology and psychology and all the things that make up our material world, at the tippy top right now, we have consciousness and no one knows where it comes from and why it's there.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  And what I think the theory that many people before me have put forth, and then I believe it, so I put this forth in the telepathy tapes, is that consciousness isn't at the top of the pyramid of our world. It's at the bottom. It's fundamental. It comes first. I mean, everything in this office was a thought first. None of it was real, and then the thought came after. And so if you think about it that way and that consciousness is fundamental, then telepathy, Psy-abilities, precognition, mediumship, all these things that seem like, woo, a little wooby-wooby, all make sense because our truest truth is non-physical.

• 23:17Jay Shetty?

  How do you define consciousness in that context?

• 23:19Speaker 01

  It is the foundation. Consciousness came first, and the whole physical world came after. It's not that the physical world came first and consciousness came after. And if we just invert the triangle, keep everything else the same in the materialist world, just put the consciousness from the top to the bottom, then we can explain all of this. And if anyone was out there is like, I want to look into this more. You could look into remote viewing. That's one of the most easy to validate sci abilities, which is being able to see something at a location where you're not. And the CIA used that for years. We know that that's been declassified, you know?

• 23:55Jay Shetty?

  What do you mean? Tell me a bit more about that.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Well.

• 23:57Jay Shetty?

  I'm less aware.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  This is one of the books I read in like trying to understand all of this is there's a great book by an author named Annie Jacobson. It's called phenomena. And what it was about was the declassified papers from the CIA about their project grill flame and project Stargate programs, which was really active in the seventies and into the eighties, where they were using remote viewing and because the Russians were. And what that was is they found that some people were extremely good at, if you could give them a line of longitude and a line of latitude, they could sit at the Stanford Research Institute in California and tell you, draw a picture of what was there.

• 24:32Jay Shetty?

  No way.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's fascinating. And so they did a bunch of research around this and how this is possible. And they would put some of the best remote viewers under the ocean in a submarine to be like, okay, well, we know waves can't penetrate that that deep of water. Like, so what is this skill? Like, is it still possible underwater? Because telephone signals aren't right. Cell phone signals aren't like most signals can't go through water. And these remote viewers were significantly accurate, like statistically so, that they could still find targets when underwater. And there's been so much released on that program. Yeah. And I think the one of the best remote viewers was, I believe, a Burbank police chief.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  And someone FBI CIA was in his office and saw that he had like marked on the map where submarines were. Well, that's alarming. How does this guy know where the submarines were? And he was like, I could just see them. And he became one of the best like remote viewers in the program. And they did some of these quote unquote telepathy tapes, tapes of these telepathy tests with another man named Yuri Geller. They would have him draw what was in a closed box. And he was pretty accurate. And so if people want to read that book, like that's a great gateway into this that shows something is happening. Something is real. And this program went on for a long time. And they say it's expired. I think it's probably still going on in the United States government. But that was remote viewing and using psychic abilities.

• 26:01Jay Shetty?

  Are there any other programs or things you've come across like that that are used in the modern world in a less spiritual space?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  For sure, Russia, China, the United States have been looking into these Psy abilities as very real elements. And of course, they're trying to use it for warfare and spying. I know that there's a lot of people who will teach remote viewing and map dousing where you try to go figure out where something might be located on a map. And some people are really good at that. It could be like the ancient, whatever, aqueduct is here. And they can help you find it. And like, these are things that have map dousing has gone on for thousands of years, where people will know what's underground. How? I don't understand how. But it's a real thing. I did not understand how remote viewing could work. And so I went to a workshop one day because I thought, I wonder if I could learn this.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  And this was kind of like right in the heart of like me trying to understand everything. And I was just immersing into anything I could. And so I went to like a workshop where they try to teach you how to do this. And I was with one of my close friends. And they said, okay, we're going to do a remote viewing experiment. We're about to pull a slide up and you all have to draw what's on the slide. And I was like, a slide? Like, that's not even like in the physical world that we can like maybe see. How's that going to work? And so all these, everyone's, you know, trying to clear their mind and people, after 10 minutes or whatever, I look at some of the drawings. It looks like people were drawing like these big circles and stuff. And what I was getting in my head was like, draw a tree and like a little bit of water and the word green and a bird and a sun. And my drawing looked so rudimentary, like something a four-year-old would draw.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  And then all of a sudden they show what it was. And it was a peacock. And I'm like, okay, so I had bird and green, but I don't think that counts. And then my friend turns over her paper and on her paper was a tree and a sun. She wrote the word green. She had water. We had the same picture. I have a picture on my phone. And that's when I'm like, okay, I don't know what's going on here. If we're remote viewing of her and I just crossed paths and there was like real telepathy, like we sunk up. Whatever signal it was, her and I had the same drawing. And that's when I was like, this whole thing is really mysterious. And I finally understood what the parents were talking about. Because I was like, did we both tune into the same signal? Or were we sharing and influencing each other? What was that? But that was an astounding moment for me. That made me believe in things like remote viewing.

• 28:22Jay Shetty?

  Have you and your friend ever tried doing that again?

• 28:25Speaker 01

  No, I should ask her.

• 28:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. That would be really fascinating to sit down again.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it would really be awesome to try that again. And for me, the biggest shock was, again, I thought, okay, we're studying telepathy. We can do these telepathy tests. We can prove it or, you know, validate it. I guess there's no proof in science, but validate it. And that's what I thought was. But then, when I was immersed with so many wonderful human beings and families, the thing that I started seeing and that they start talking about quite quickly, especially the non-speakers, is, no, this is bigger than just telepathy. So many individuals can also know languages that they've never learned. Well, how is that possible? Or tell the future and can accurately predict something that's going to happen. And sure, that could be coincidental, or maybe it's not. Or had information about something they'd never learned,

• 29:13Speaker 01

  be it math or science or even spiritual information. And so many others were talking about seeing beyond the grave, like knowing people and bringing messages through. And that was totally disorienting for me because that was all new. I didn't think any of that stuff was possible. Individuals talking about rocks that had powers. I mean, I came into that being like, wait, what?

• 29:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it? Where it's, it's so hard in our material world to give space for invisible thinking.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:44Jay Shetty?

  Because like you said, everything that we look at is so visibly measured, visibly real. We, that's how we function as a society. Then almost when these ideas start to seep in, it starts to become very challenging. And certain ideas have found their place in the Western world. When you look at things like astrology. And so, coming from an eastern background, astrologers who have incredible abilities rarely exist anymore. But those that in India had these abilities, like you've seen the western version of astrology evolve and it exists in some capacity in our world. But you find most of these ideas kind of fall by the wayside and don't really have a version. Or, like a lot of astrology can be and is,

• 30:29Jay Shetty?

  get labeled as woo-woo or just, you know, made up or meant to make people feel safe. What was it that gave you so much trust when you were doing these tests yourself? That gave you a sense of confidence from being someone who, in your own words, you felt, well, it's not that you came from a spiritual background or this is what you're open to. And all of a sudden, you're like, no, I believe this. Like, what did you see? What did you experience that you were like, no, no, this is legitimate?

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think the most important thing for anyone walking into this world is forget about the telepathy. Forget about all that stuff. Like, meet the people. And when you're talking to parents in particular, who are stretched thin, they have so many just daily challenges with working, you know, just helping their children, but actually battling for their children every day to get the education they need, the supports they need, the care they need. And for these parents who have so much love and so much sacrifice, and yet there's this other dimension of what the heck is going on. And their sincerity of just like, we know this is happening. Can you just help us understand why? And when you start hearing that from parent after parent after parent, who don't know each other, it's pretty clear there's not a mass conspiracy going on.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And so, meeting the parents, loving the parents. I mean, they truly are the biggest, most, they're the love warriors on this earth right now. And then, meeting the non-speakers with just such honesty around what's going on. There's no, for them, this is just life. Here, I'm gonna talk about this. I'm gonna share this. I'm gonna talk about this. And that became convincing. And then, so I think I walked in trusting the parents, trusting the non-speakers, believing that they were telling the truth.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  And then I think when you are coming from it from a place of belief and trust, it's so much more likely for these things to unfold. You know, a lot of, I think, not just me, but scientists would say like, love is the basis of a lot of these sigh abilities. If anyone ever has had this moment where something went wrong, it's because you love that person, you felt deeply something happened to that person. We have accounts of that from all over the world in history. Or you're thinking about someone you care deeply about and the second, the phone rings and it's them. I mean, these links are, I think, based in love and they're not that rare. We've all had that phone telepathy. And I just want to say this really quick too, because I think that that belief as a, as a measure of like being able to experience and see some of this stuff, there is space for that in science. We have the placebo effect.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  That's part and parcel of every, you know, major medical like study. Because it's real, belief and believing in something helps and changes the outcomes. I think if you were to walk in with the non-speakers and think, I don't believe this is possible, there's not telepathy, I don't think you're gonna see much. But I think when you're like, I, I trust you. I trust what you're saying is true. I think people are much more likely to be themselves and show their full self. And telepathy is part of that in this world.

• 33:17Jay Shetty?

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• 34:00Jay Shetty?

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• 34:43Jay Shetty?

  What had you seen when you spoke to Dr. Powell? Like, what had she seen from a scientific point of view that convinced her that this was real? What research had she found that made it feel so legitimate to her as well?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  You know, I was so impressed with Dr. Powell. I mean, she's a real thoughtful scientist in this regard. And she was studying savant syndrome at first and savant syndrome is really interesting. And I mean, her big thesis is ESP should be considered a savant skill because science as a whole legitimizes savants. That you might know a language or music or math without being taught or exposed to it. And that's pretty wild. How does that happen if you haven't taught it? And so ESP is in the same realm, right? Like you know something you shouldn't know because how? How would you know the future? How can you use someone's thoughts? So.

• 35:28Jay Shetty?

  Sorry, could you tell us what ESP is?

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Oh, ESP is an extrasensory perception, so a sense of knowing something without your five senses. So she was studying savant skills and what was fascinating is some of the parents who had a quote unquote savant, which is a troubling word in and of itself for a few reasons we can talk about later. But like, we're saying, actually, I don't know if they're savant. I thought they were because I thought they had every book on my bookshelf memorized. But then I'm learning, no, I think they can see through my eyes or I think they're reading my mind. And she heard that enough times that she started studying that. And lo and behold, in the studies she did, she was seeing what I saw, which was the spares out. Unfortunately, because so many of our scientific institutions are rooted in materialism and the journals and such,

• 36:13Speaker 01

  it's really hard to publish papers on this, to get grants to do the research around it, to publish a book on it. And when she published a book and was on her book tour, suddenly the board said, "We're taking your license away because we think you must, there must be something wrong with you." And she had a, you know, petition, she had to go through psychological testing to prove that she was of sound mind. And then she begged them to look at the book and they realized, "Oh, this is sound science." And she's sound. Okay, you can have your license back and you can do this, but the trauma is done because you've had to pay a lot of fees. It hurts your reputation. It comes up on Google. And so I think for a lot of the scientists who are on the cutting edge of this too, they've been harmed because for me, I believe that at the baseline for science, you should have a freedom of inquiry. You should be able to ask a question and see where it leads.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  And as a society, we need to ask ourselves, "Well, what is going on if you can't ask a question because people are afraid of the answer?" I mean, that's troubling and it's also limiting because as humans, this is really exciting that there is a very real, non-physical world.

• 37:13Jay Shetty?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  And I think that's what everyone actually cares about. At the end of the day, like, don't we care if that's, that, that, that has implications for where we're going and why we're here?

• 37:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Dr. Powell, she saw the truth of it, but she also ran hard into the, the deeply skeptical, materialist society and science world.

• 37:33Jay Shetty?

  What kept her going?

• 37:34Speaker 01

  I mean, I think the same thing. I mean, she laid low for a while after that, you know? And then she actually retired when, right before the telepathy tapes came out. She's like, "I don't want to be fined again. I don't want to deal with all this." And she was ready, but she was like, "This is not worth it." So I think what kept her going is kind of the same thing that, you know, when I hit upload of that first episode, I was like, "I might destroy my entire reputation as a documentarian, as a human being. I don't know what people are going to think, but like, this is true." And it's, this truth is worth it. And I think Dr. Powell underwent that. When you see it, you can't unsee it. When you're in the room and you experience it, you can't un-experience it. And when you meet these families so full of love and truth and earnestness that are just like, "Someone tell us why?

• 38:18Speaker 01

  No one is listening." You kind of want to carry the burden for them. You shoulder it for them because you're like, "You aren't crazy. You're telling the truth. Like, someone does need to listen." And I think Dr. Powell felt that urgency of like, "I will carry your torch." And then I met all of them and I was like, "I will also carry your torch." And now I think there's a lot of listeners carrying the torch, which is beautiful.

• 38:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. There are so many people that I've been speaking to about it with since I've been listening. And the conversations that it's starting are actually the most exciting part for me. I think the curiosity that it's sparking in people. I was trying to think about actually, when else in society, when have we had that kind of resistance to something? Like, I don't know if you've looked back, and I'm sure with your research mind, like, have you looked back at times in society where we would have been like, no, going to the moon is ridiculous. It's never gonna happen. And then we do it, right? Because that in one sense is outside of our visible world to some degree in terms of before you could see it, or now when we talk about, you know, building life on another planet. It's become normalized because Elon Musk or whoever will talk about these things publicly so often.

• 39:20Jay Shetty?

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• 40:42Jay Shetty?

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• 41:27Jay Shetty?

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• 41:33Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. You know, and there's that quote, all truth goes through three stages. First, it's ridiculed, then it's violently opposed, and then it's accepted as self evident. And I feel like that's one of these moments. And you know, there's when Mendel first said that genes caused disease. I mean, that was like a big moment where people were laughing at that. That seemed silly, like little things would go into you and make you sick. And now it's self evident, you know? The flat earth, like people believed the earth was flat for a really long time. And then it wasn't, but people like clung to that. I mean, there's still so few.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  But, but I think about the materialist science of now. And I'm like, I wonder if in a hundred years, they're going to clinging to materialism. It's they're going to look like the flat earthers, you know? But even when the Wright brothers first launched their plane, people didn't believe it. They didn't believe it unless they saw it. They had to go on a tour and fly their little plane all over for people to believe it. So it's not this, I think this happens with any big leap, whether it's in science and spirituality or whatever it is. And, and this is just, this is the blowback. The anger, the confusion, the trying to find like, you know, the, the character assassination is going to come from anyone caring the thing. That's happened throughout history. That is just part and parcel when you bring in big news, I think.

• 42:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I, and I almost think that it's at like a perfect synchronicity with all of our developments in AI. Like, you know, we're at this precipice where it's like AI is the new frontier. At a very basic level, everyone's now using ChatGPT and then we're looking at what singularity could look like. And we're looking at the tech horizon of all of this advancement. And it only makes sense to me that at the same time, we need this other side.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:12Jay Shetty?

  That we're also seeing these advancements in our spiritual understanding and our spiritual exploration.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:18Jay Shetty?

  And I wanted to ask you, like, so far with Dr. Powell's work and what you've seen, what has been conclusively defined or when, when people are asking the question, why is this happening? What do we know, if anything, right now of why it's happening?

• 43:31Speaker 01

  I don't think we know yet.

• 43:32Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  And I think it's because there's been such a lack of funding. I mean, that was one of the hopes with Sloppy Tape was to get Dr. Powell some funding and, and she's gotten funding now, which is great. And, you know, I know she wants to look at some MRI scans and some Q E G scans. And that's important because she's looking at from the brain stuff, which is what a neuroscientist should be doing. And I, I'm interested in doing like really good telepathy tests that are visual for, for film. And so many scientists have been reaching out, which has been beautiful since this has come forward being like, I want to work on a experiment or a research. And so I'm trying to get on board with our team, a non-speaking science advisor to kind of help and then do a round table with a bunch of the scientists who all have big ideas, bring some of the non-speakers in,

• 44:16Speaker 01

  and have a conversation about like, what can we test? What should we test? What would be helpful? What are the limitations? And kind of go from there.

• 44:25Jay Shetty?

  Why do you think it's so important? What do you think? I'm intrigued to know what you think it would unlock for us by discovering the answer behind this. What, what do you see?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Well, again, I think it's more than just telepathy.

• 44:36Jay Shetty?

  Yes, agreed, yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  And there's a, a teacher who has been at this longer than Dr. Powell or me in Wisconsin, who will constantly say, I think there's a sharing of consciousness. I think there's a linking. And that's a curious question because if that's the case, that means that consciousness is coming from somewhere else and that we like can. Beam into it. I mean, I don't know, like, if you think of our body as a television set, right, that will animate and all this stuff, but that's, it's like, we don't carry the signal. The signal's coming from somewhere else. That's one view of consciousness. Like, that is one possibility. And I think the non-speaking telepathy pairing that happens with a teacher or a parent, if we could test through a Q E G and figure out, is the message

• 45:19Speaker 01

  coming in, like, is the brain lighting up at the same time in the same place? We might be able to learn something. I'm not a scientist, so I want other people to carry the torch and figure out the experiments. And I hope to create for the film. Like, we're gonna make some spaces where non-speakers and researchers and scientists can talk about it. And then I hope the science just goes forth in a comfortable way for everyone. My biggest concern, of course, is exploitation of non-speaking individuals and their families. Like, it has to be in a way that feels really safe and good for them. And some families want answers. Some are just like, we know this is happening. This is great. This has changed our lives. Everyone has to volunteer and do what's comfortable for them. But I just, my goal was to get this out there. And so that people would listen to the parents and hopefully believe them.

• 46:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. When you started doing the test, I remember you saying that you were seeing like a 95% success rate, which is extremely high. What were you seeing in the 5% that was inaccurate or incomplete?

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm smiling when you said that, because like, I said 95% because it just felt like the more sciency thing to say. Like, it was actually pretty much like 100. But like, when I talk about the 5%, it's because they're spelling to communicate. So sometimes, if like, they were, if pony was the thing that was on the flashcard, maybe they spelled like, P P it hit twice, O N Y. Or something like that, where it's like, can we count it? We won't count it because there was a P hit twice, so we would discount it. Again, I'm not a scientist, but in like, my human mind, I was like, that counted. So there is that element where it's like, they wrote the thing, it would be, it would be a tactical error like that.

• 46:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, right. Oh, wow. So it was, it was literally things like spelling, basically?

• 46:55Speaker 01

  It was like, yeah.

• 46:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, or a double tap, etc.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  A double tap.

• 46:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be a double tap. I remember when we were doing one telepathy experiment, there was a production assistant that was like, walking around with Doritos. And then every time they entered the room with the Doritos, it's like, the test would get disrupted. Like, most of the word would be spelled, like, bicycle. And then the EU would be left off because it'd be like, Doritos are here, you know? And so stuff like that, we didn't count it because all bicycle didn't. But again, like the science seaport was like, okay, we can't count bicycle because the whole world wasn't spelled. But like the human being in me was like, she just wrote bicycle.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  And then Doritos came in the room.

• 47:30Jay Shetty?

  And what about some of them that could see colors and letters or our numbers? Where was that coming from?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, so there's something called synesthesia.

• 47:38Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  And that is synesthesia, right? You see colors, different senses get tied to different things. With non-speaking individuals, it's really beautiful and interesting. And again, like broad brush here, so but some of the people I was talking with, like one girl says that she sees the colors around each letter. So she doesn't have to see the letter board because she's pointing to a color. So that's pretty cool. A lot of non-speaking individuals say they see auras, not just around people, but around plants and cut flowers. And they'll see that the aura drifting off as the cut floor flowers dying around rocks. And again, it wouldn't be just one individual, it'd be many saying these things. So at a certain point, you're like, okay, things have auras and there's colors. And that tells you how if someone's good or bad or angry or whatever, you know, I mean, it was just beautiful.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  The amount of information that was so articulate and so profound that was being shared across the board.

• 48:26Jay Shetty?

  You've dedicated three and a half years to this now, right? Do you feel like it's feels like your purpose? It's become something that's so, I mean, to dedicate three and a half years is a long, long, long, long time. And the telepathy tapes you launched fairly recently, like just around the holidays or whatever. And to see the incredible success they've had, but it's been so much study and time. What I want to know your emotions and feelings throughout this three and a half years and then whether it feels like your purpose now.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, no, I think everything in my life has led to this. I think everything has, and it is fully my purpose for being here. And I'm so humbled, like what a wonderful, wonderful purpose. And I don't know if purpose is given to us from somewhere else or if it creates your purpose. But like my favorite book is Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.

• 49:13Jay Shetty?

  I love that book.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  One of the beautiful takeaways in that book, right, is like, the meaning of life is whatever gives your life meaning. And nothing ever to come across my path, outside of the people I love, like my spouse and kids. But beyond that, like, nothing has given my more meaning than this. To me, it's answering and picking through the most complex, important questions. So what a humbling, beautiful gift to just have fallen into this beautiful world.

• 49:41Jay Shetty?

  What meaning has it spoken to you for you? So what questions has it answered for you? Or what questions has it made you ask that you find are so meaningful for us to know?

• 49:49Speaker 01

  You know, for me, it was really a peeling of the onion. And first, it was seeing the telepathy over and over and over again, and being like, okay, I don't need to ask that question. That's fully happening. And then I almost felt like the parents would let me in on things as they thought I was ready. You know, so even hearing and understanding that Houston, one of the individuals to the telepathy tapes, understands that feels rocks so deeply. And that was something that I always just shrugged off. Okay, so telepathy is real, and rocks truly give off, you know, energy and frequency. What else have I dismissed that's real? So I started finding that things that I just shoved away as like, that's impossible, this is fake, or these are charlatans or frauds, you know, I started coming to terms

• 50:32Speaker 01

  with everything I'd ever just ignored or dismissed in life and reevaluating it. So telepathy, like, yes, okay, rocks, crystals. Now I'm like, okay, I have crystal things on my wrist. Like, it's like, yes, those have a powerful thing. And then non-speakers talking about the other side. I mean, that was something that came up a lot. In fact, that often is the first thing before telepathy, is this person's here. Auntie has this message for you. You know, this person is telling me not that you tell whoever in India not to buy this land, because that land has a bad well on it. And I mean, just the amount of messages parents were telling me that they were receiving from the other side through their child was wild.

• 51:12Jay Shetty?

  That was relevant to the parents' lives.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  That was so relevant, that would bear out, that there's no way their child would know. So then it started making me think, okay, we don't go away, like, we're here, something like, it's consciousness survives. I think all of it was a cognitive dissonance of now I fully believe that Sia abilities are real, that consciousness survives death, that we are all intimately connected, that love is the baseline for everything. And I think I see the non-speakers as my teacher, not the other way around. I mean, they are all of our teachers. If people just take the time to listen and meet them where they're at, and And I think what they would say is love is the most important thing. We have it all wrong. We're all connected. It is bigger than any of us. And that these spiritual gifts are in us all.

• 51:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, the the eastern traditions describe consciousness to have three qualities. Sat, Chit, and Ananda, which mean full of knowledge, which makes sense to what you're saying now. Eternal, endless, and full of bliss, love. And so when you're saying that even through your discovery, that potentially consciousness, the idea that there's greater consciousness, where there's knowledge or messages being inferred, that comes from that full of knowledge. The idea that you're saying consciousness doesn't die. You used a word there, I forgot it, but this idea that it's continuous and that continues to exist is the eternal part. And then, like you said, it's founded on love is the full of bliss.

• 52:40Jay Shetty?

  And so those qualities actually seem to match very coherently with the eastern spiritual traditions of understanding what consciousness actually is.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:49Jay Shetty?

  I've always been excited about science catching up with spirituality.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:54Jay Shetty?

  And so I love when science can prove the value in spirituality and beliefs or practices that have happened for hundreds or thousands of years.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:06Jay Shetty?

  And I've seen it happen with mindfulness and meditation where,

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:09Jay Shetty?

  you know, these practices have been around for thousands of years. And today mindfulness and meditation are no longer woo woo and made up.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  When meditation was first being studied, it was kind of ridiculed as being woo woo.

• 53:20Jay Shetty?

  Even when I first started practicing it, like I first started practicing meditation around 2007. And if you talked about meditation to someone in 2007, they didn't really think it was that valuable, or they thought it was just made up.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:34Jay Shetty?

  Or if you told someone that breathwork was a way of calming yourself down or, you know, reducing negative thoughts or anxiety, people would have laughed at you. And so I've seen it happen with a few things. And I've always been excited by when science has been able to have the language, the tools, the vocabulary to talk about these ideas. I was just back at the monastery that I used to live at in India this January. And I had some of my most powerful meditation experiences nearly 20 years after I first started meditating. And it's hard to explain, like it's hard to put into words. And, you know, you can often feel, and I'm sure. You know, the nonverbal children, they probably feel as well like how little they can even,

• 54:18Jay Shetty?

  you know, through the written word, actually explain what they're experiencing or what they're going through. And we can all identify with emotions and feelings like that, even if we don't believe, know, trust what's going on. I think we've all had experiences where like, I have no idea how to explain this, or I have no idea how to put this into words. I've always wanted that marriage between science and spirituality, where science will actually look to spirituality for what to look into. Me and Andrew Huberman, who's been on the show a few times, will always talk about a lot of the practices he suggests and recommends, like, starting off your day, looking at sunlight, which kicks off our circadian rhythm and keeps everything in harmony and balance. Surya Namaskar, which translated is sun salutations, is an ancient practice of looking at the sun when you wake up first

• 55:02Jay Shetty?

  thing in the morning, and how that was the way to get your body invigorated. And so, you see these similarities in these ancient practices that people have done for thousands of years. They may not have said, oh, it's about the circadian rhythm. And, you know, they didn't talk about it like that. But they were these beautiful practices in every tradition that existed because of their value to the human body, the human mind, and the human spirit.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  It's beautiful, and it's all correct. I think you're right. And I think science is catching up to some of this stuff, because when you look back on things like telepathy, if you go to most native, you know, groups of people that are still around and thriving, I think they'd say, yeah, duh. You know, the sense of being stared at is real. Like, often like remote viewing to know where the hunt is, is real. These are things that were part and parcel of survival for individuals. And like, we feel removed from it, but it doesn't mean that it's, hasn't always been there.

• 56:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. And, and while there are naturally, as always, people who've exploited, or lied, or pretended, or whatever, in these traditions, naturally, as there are in everywhere, science included, and everywhere else, it's almost like... Those people exist because the real thing exists. Because there's someone who can do it for real and then

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:23Jay Shetty?

  Someone's trying to, you know, do something with it.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 56:26Jay Shetty?

  But that's usually how it works. You only get, this is a terrible example, but that's when my mind's going. You only get fake Gucci handbags because there's real ones.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:34Jay Shetty?

  And that's the idea with research, like you only get fake something.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:37Jay Shetty?

  When the real thing has been existed or experienced.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:40Jay Shetty?

  And then you make the fake version because you don't know how the real one exists.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Right, absolutely. And I think you take something that probably has the most amount of quote unquote charlatans and the most amount of skepticism, like mediums, right? However, like the Windbridge Institute, Forever Family Foundation, there are groups out there that will like double, triple blind test individuals to be like, these are the people we've tested, we've tested, we've tested, we've, they don't even know who's the sitter versus blank, blank, blank. And, and they've come up with a list. You know, like 15% of the people they tested were the real deal. According to these tests. So I think that's what's a good reminder for people too, is if you look into a lot of this stuff, some of the people, there are organizations and institutions out there looking at the science, trying to vet the best from the best. And you can do it.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Like if you spend the time to do the research, you can figure out if it's real and who's the real deal.

• 57:30Jay Shetty?

  Why is our resistance so deep? Like, why are we so stuck in our ways when it comes to these ideas? And, and the same is probably true for scientific and technological advancement too. I think, you know, I recently spoke to Bill Gates and he was talking about the idea that computers would exist in every home was just bizarre. Like people, people were like, that's ridiculous. Like, no one's going to have a personal computer in their home. What's the need? Right? That was, that was the opinion that people had. So I don't think it's, I actually don't think it's just spiritually. I think, I think

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Innovation.

• 58:02Jay Shetty?

  Any form of innovation.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:04Jay Shetty?

  Meets that kind of resistance. Where, where does that come from? Why is it that we're so resistant? What have you seen from human behavior and people you've come across?

• 58:13Speaker 01

  For sure, people are resistant to change, right? We like our status quo, it feels safe, we like feeling safe. But I think when it comes to sociabilities, usually it's so vulnerable, right? To think that someone could know your mind or connect with the other side or tell your future. I mean, to be had when it comes to something so personal, so vulnerable is like the worst thing ever. It's like telling a secret and have someone stabbing you in the back. It's just. To lay bare your soul and trust that someone's actually being a good steward of like your deepest secrets or connections and then lying about it and profiting off it. I mean, there's like nothing grosser. Profiting off of vulnerability and trust is just the worst. And so I think that's why people are really skeptical.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  They want to make sure that this stuff, which is good, like we, people shouldn't be profiting off of people's vulnerability. But I think these skills are real and I think most of them probably have, can do it.

• 59:08Jay Shetty?

  Have you felt that spending more time with the children, the families and everything, are these abilities that those of us that are mere mortals and normal can develop and build and grow? Or are they things that are reserved for specifically the nonverbal speakers?

• 59:24Speaker 01

  No, I think that everyone probably has these in us to a certain degree, just like some people are excellent at basketball and some people can barely shoot a basket. So I think that it depends on the individual. Like telepathy seems so remarkably hard. How do you read someone's thoughts? But I will say the thing that it was the hardest episode for me to put into the world because it felt so unbelievable, but I knew it to be true because I witnessed it, was that there was a huge amount of teachers, like a lot of teachers, who were saying that after working with, especially usually one student that they were really close to, they were able to start hearing them back. So the telepathy started going two ways. And when I first heard that, I was shocked and I was shocked that it wasn't a parent's. I mean, it has, some parents have said this has happened to them, but a lot of teachers

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  were like, I will hear their voice in my head. I can hear their full sentences. I can hear what they're thinking and what they're about to spell. And it goes the same way. And so some of these teachers have told me it's so powerful now that we can sit next to each other and have a nonverbal educational period. And I'll ask questions and they'll write or they'll ask questions and then I hear it back and there's no, they don't even have to spell. And when I first heard this, I thought, what? Like, can that be? And then I heard it again and then again and then again from people who don't know each other. And then I heard a woman who was a teacher on a podcast reporting this. And she thought she was the only person that ever happened to in the world. And I'm reaching out, I'm like, no, no, no, no, you're not alone. Like, no, it seems like a miracle, but this is not, you know, how is that happening?

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  And I don't know, but I wonder, can certain people help us turn it on or like rip off the block in our brain? And I don't know if the non-speaking individuals these teachers were working with helped them get there, or if you just clear your mind and you're in the space with someone in such a beautiful, special way that we can all do it.

• 1:01:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, I often wonder also whether science will ever be able to measure a lot of these experiences and phenomena in a way that makes sense to everyone. I often wondered that, whether some of these things are just the way they are. And like you said, because our scientific tools have been built to measure that which is material and seen, how can we measure something with a tool that's meant to measure something that's seen that's unseen anyway?

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  The most beautiful comment I heard from a non-speaking individual about that was they were like, well, why, why are you all trying to measure telepathy with your instruments was the exact wording. And I was like, well, to prove it. And they were like, well, why aren't you trying to prove love in a lab? That is the most special and strongest power. It will cause people to jump into a choppy ocean or to pick up the car with such adrenaline if their child is trapped. Like, love is the greatest superpower. That's the biggest superpower. Why aren't you trying to measure that in a lab? And I was like, I guess, I don't know why. I don't know why we're not measuring love. Has love been measured? But that was the equivalent in their mind of like us trying to measure telepathy. This person was like, this is just part and parcel of this like love, connection, communication, almost survival, right?

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  If you can't speak, can't communicate, like beyond spelling, it can be a lifeline.

• 1:02:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  And I just thought that was so beautiful because there are certain things that you just accept and telepathy might be so hard for some people to accept. But if you're living it and breathing it as part of your bouquet of what you need to get around in the world, it might seem.

• 1:02:39Jay Shetty?

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• 1:03:41Jay Shetty?

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• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  It's silly to measure.

• 1:04:16Jay Shetty?

  What have you found in your research looking at animals and telepathy?

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is a beautiful element to this, I think. And to me, it really helped, helped me believe everything more. I think that there are mental fields around certain animals. We see this in, in schools of fish. How are they turning at the exact same time, right? And certain like murmurs of birds who are basically have like the same mind. And there is this idea of like, are they all kind of connected to a greater mental field of consciousness that is helping control their movements? Rupert Sheldrake, a biologist from Cambridge, talks a lot about this. And he's written books and done incredible research on animals, pets, knowing when their owners are coming home. And they'll put cameras around and page someone at the office. So it's always they're coming home in a different time, in a different car, from a different place. And they have cameras and see that the dog will go stand by the door, in some cases,

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  cats. And if there's a flat tire, something happens, or this person gets called back into the office, the dog will go back and sit down. And then the second their owner's heading home again, they come back up. So there seems to be this telepathic link there. And one of my favorite stories that we share in the telepathy tapes has to do with elephants. And there was a conservationist who was trying to get, you know, some rowdy elephants into a animal preserve. And after a good amount of time, this man's name was Lawrence Anthony. You know, he really worked to get the elephants' trust. He, he made their safe space. It was a huge amount of land. And he hadn't been, I think, in touch or seen these elephants much in the last few years of his life. And then one day he died.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  Well, the elephants all kind of gathered and walked to his house from where they were. And they all kind of show up right around the same time. And they stayed for a few days mourning. And it was remarkable for his widow, because the question is, how did these elephants know to go and do their mourning ritual?

• 1:06:05Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  How? And the story doesn't end there. Every year on the anniversary of his death, and this went on for a few years, the elephants would leave what they were doing and go to his house and pay their respects.

• 1:06:17Jay Shetty?

  Only on that day?

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  On that day. It took them a while to get there. They had to walk a few days to get there. But yes, they knew exactly when he died the first time. And then they would pay their respects thereafter for a few years on the day of his death. And so to me, it's like, if you have a hard time grasping telepathy in humans, look at the animals. Because we're, we're, we're pretty closely related, you know? And, um, and there's just some beautiful treasures of stories of this telepathic link expressing itself in nature.

• 1:06:48Jay Shetty?

  One thing that really stood out to me was, I, I think you said that the American Speech Language Hearing Association says that spelling is not a valid form of communication. And they call it a pseudoscience. And I was like, so that's interesting as well. Why is it considered that way?

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  There is a history here for sure.

• 1:07:04Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Um, and I think the first thing that's kind of made the stigma around spelling really take hold was with facilitated communication, where facilitated communication was the first, oh my gosh, the individuals are spelling that people thought were locked inside and could never spell. And that required like touch. And the use of touch became problematic, I think, especially with some people who weren't trained. Because some awful court cases erupted from consent that wasn't given.

• 1:07:33Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Horrible things that, that happened through, through this form of spelling. So then. Spelling evolved into rapid prompting method and spelling to communicate and now the spellers method where no touch at all. I mean, you cannot touch is like a tenet of that. And when you sit in the room with a speller, it's really remarkable to watch, you know, because they're not being touched. They're spelling. It's clear. They're pointing directly to where they want to go. It's not like a struggle. The parent is certainly not going like this, you know, often it's completely like rooted. So it's really difficult that that stigma exists because these individuals are having to prove constantly, I'm in here, my words are mine, I authored them. And that's really hard. But I will say that this is not a new thing. Sign language took over 100 years to become accepted, even in the 60s,

• 1:08:14Jay Shetty?

  70s. Yeah, walk me through that. I didn't know that. I learned that through listening, like 150 years sign language took to be accepted. What were the steps? Do you know?

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I think people were saying it wasn't a real language. There's no grammatical structure. The rallying cry was that anyone who is deaf should learn to read lips and try to speak, basically fit into our world. We are not going to allow this language to take place. Same thing happened with Braille. Louis Braille, the inventor of Braille, kind of modified, you know, this language where you could use dots to communicate. And it was considered, it was outlawed. They weren't allowed to use it in school where he was going to school. When they finally did a big test to prove that like one person who was blind was going to spell something and another person was going to read it, because the kids were using it like quietly, even though it was like outlawed in the school. And when they did that big test with viewers and people to watch, the first big claim was they're cheating.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  They practiced in advance to pretend what they were going to write. It seemed outlandish that you could read dots with your finger and spell by poking holes into something. And so Braille went through the same dilemma. And so I think like this control of how we use language, who's allowed to use it, and if it's valid, is not new. But it's really unfortunate because

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  That is a human right to communicate, to say what you want for dinner. I mean, the most basic things. And if anyone out there is critiquing this without seeing a speller in action, I just think it's like a crime because you are trying to steal a voice from another living human being. It's really mean.

• 1:09:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I mean, what do the skeptics think is going on in those homes?

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  There's a lot around, the tests around spelling, right? To prove its efficacy have really changed throughout the years. So at first, it's like, okay, no touch. Okay, there's no touch. Now sit further apart. Okay, sit further apart. That's working. Then it's like, the parent shouldn't look at the board. Okay, well, we won't look at the board. Then it's like, then can the parent leave the room? Well, there's something fascinating, which is why I think it's really important that this whole telepathy bit is getting out there. Because I think a lot of people who work with spellers, and there are some spellers who are absolutely independent, like they're rocking it all and they're off to the races. And it's a journey and it's a love evolution. But there's certainly many spellers I've talked to who say like, I need a person nearby, a trusted communication partner. And I don't know if it's the physiology is grounding them.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  I don't know if it is that they're, it's helpful to use their eyes. I have no idea what it is. But there's this beautiful kind of meshing that happens, especially in the earlier parts of the journey, that are a bit inexplicable. And if you try to test it, it's going to be like, how do you explain that? And I don't know. But it takes two people to do sign language. You know, you can't do it alone. And so if this partner, and it doesn't always have to, often people have many partners, right? There might be some communication partners at school and at work and with a parent. But if that partner is needed to be somewhere in the space to ground you, why does it matter? I mean, why does it actually matter? If they're typing on their own with their finger, new thoughts, self diagnosing, talking about things other people don't know about, I mean, it's clear they're in there and they're

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  communicating their thoughts. Why it is that someone might need to be in the room to, to help them do it? That's a science question that I can't answer. I think it has to do with physiology. I think it has to do with energy. It might have to do with like, using someone else's like frequency to help you just. Stabilize, I have no idea, or integrate with your body? I don't know what it is. I don't think anyone knows, but people are asking the wrong questions because they're trying to test, test, test, test this and not looking at like, well, why is that link needed to make spelling work? But certainly the individuals are typing their own thoughts, often self-diagnosing their own care, spelling things that the spelling partner might not know about. It's fascinating.

• 1:12:03Jay Shetty?

  What's been your, if you had to pick a couple of favorite stories or experiences that have really stayed with your relationships you've built with some of the parents and families and non-speaking individuals that stand out to you that you've shared on telepathy tapes?

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Every day is a bit of a, it's a beautiful thing. And I think about even now that we have a film team working on this, that they are starting to send their stories where like my producer just wrote the other day and she's like, I just met this mom and then her daughter walked in the room and knew my name and where I lived and what my child's name was and like, why I hadn't said any of that? And how did she know that? And I was like, exactly. It's welcome, you know, welcome to the party. And it's, it's fun. And like, one of my favorite memories was once there was a mom that was trying to get ahold of me and I was busy on like phone calls and I wasn't able to answer. And I was a little concerned, like maybe it's an emergency. Fast forward, it's like lunch. I walk out of my home office into my kitchen and I'm making

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  lunch and the phone rings and I was like, oh, your timing is perfect. And she's like, I know, I know. I just, I just was told you walked out to get lunch and like, stuff like that where it's like, oh my goodness, like are they remote viewing me sometimes, you know? Which is fine. So there's just, it's, it's like bits of magic every day.

• 1:13:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I'm not claiming to have any telepathic abilities, but I have this habit of whenever I think of someone, I always message them, even if I don't need anything or want anything. And 99% of the time when I think of someone, I don't want anything or need something.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Jay Shetty?

  So I'll just message them and say, hey, I'm thinking of you and, you know, sending love. I'm here for you. And 99% of the time, someone will message me back and say, I was just thinking about you.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:39Jay Shetty?

  Or I need, really need you right now, whatever it may be. Now, whatever that is, I always love the magic of being able to send that message.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Jay Shetty?

  Whether it is met with a positive response or not.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:49Jay Shetty?

  And it's just a beautiful thing to try. And I think. I just love that your work is making us more curious and opening us up to these ideas because that to me is the part of us that's missing when it comes to spiritual innovation.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  You know, Mark Twain talked about, he called it mental telegraphy. And this was his, his observation that often you would write a letter to someone you hadn't thought about in five, seven years, or you know, and then the day that you postmarked it, you'd receive a letter seven days later, or whatever it was, postmarked the same day from that person on the other side of the globe. So it's like you both had like the physical male proof of when you sent the letter. And Mark Twain marveled in that, as one should. And Upton Sinclair, who wrote The Jungle, I mean, you know, beautiful writer. And one of his books that he wrote after he had like gone through his life was called Mental Radio, where him and his wife did a bunch of telepathy tests together and they documented how accurate they were. And I love the opening to that book by Upton Sinclair because he's like, this would be the type of thing that should be dismissed, or you

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  should, you know, is held with such high skepticism. But what he said is, after I've experienced it, I know this to be true. And I loved his words. He wasn't like, I think this is true. It was, I know this is true. So this has all been around.

• 1:15:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What about, I was actually gonna ask you about the connection between dreams and telepathy. Has there been any connection there? Have you come across anything between those two?

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think for people who are deeply interested in that, we have an episode on that, which is episode eight of The Telepathy Tapes, which I do encourage people to listen to in order. But there was one mom in England and I wanted to, we have a spelling episode, all about spelling, and that's episode eight, where we go into the issues around spelling. But I thought one of the best non-speakers to highlight in that episode would be someone who never learned to spell. And him and his mom have a telepathic link together, but it's formed in their dreams, where he brings her into a lucid dreaming state. The first time it ever happened, I love this story, he was younger, I think he was maybe like 11 or so, came to her in a dream. And she thought she was dreaming and then he gave her an ace of spades and did this

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  whole thing, like look through the ace of spades. And she like woke up into a lucid dream and then he started talking and telling her all this stuff and remember this in the morning and they're going to tell you I need, you know, antibiotics, but I need probiotics and blah, blah, blah, blah. So she woke up in the morning and thought, oh, I just had a dream and he was talking and didn't think anything of it. And then he went and saw her the next morning, grabbed an ace of spades from a deck in another room and like showed it, did what he did in the dream. And that's when she realized, oh my goodness, he came to me in my dream and was talking there. And that's how they have deep conversations and they actually started writing music together that way. She didn't know he was a musician until he was, started music therapy late in his life, I mean, in his twenties. Um, once she discovered that, he started coming to her in dreams and being like, this is a melody or these are the lyrics, you need to write this down. And now he's, I mean, he's a pretty well-respected musician in England.

• 1:16:38Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  And it's all through dreams.

• 1:16:40Jay Shetty?

  It's incredible. And, and one of the things that I came across listening that I wanted to know more about is John Paul and Lily and, and that connection. Can you explain that to the audience who may not have heard it yet?

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, there's a non-speaker featured in the stuff of these tapes. His name is John Paul.

• 1:16:55Jay Shetty?

  He's episode four.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  He's episode four and he's ginormous. I mean, he's almost, he's like almost seven feet tall. He's a huge individual and he had a girlfriend named Lily. They would letter board, but they'd often say when they were letter boarding, it was for like everyone's benefit around them, that most of their relationship was telepathic. And John Paul's mother used to say, it was really funny because they would go on like dates at her house and like they'd be on different floors and she'd be like, are they even hanging out? Like, what is this? And then she would leave and John Paul would be like, that was so great. We had so many awesome conversations and you know, cause a lot of it was happening mind to mind and it was just a beautiful part of it. And the parents would kind of marvel at like sometimes in the exact second, they each, each would come down and say, I want to go see, you know, John Paul, I want to go see Lily. We text and the texts would come in from each other, right? The same time.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  And that's when the parents were like, they're talking to each other from where they're, what, how is this happening? It was telepathy. So, yeah, I mean, and that, you know, John Paul loved Lily so much and Lily loves John Paul. I mean, they really wanted to get married and I think. It's such an important, beautiful element of this. And I think it's important for everyone to understand is like a non-speaking individual is still an individual with their high school interests and, you know, hobbies and desires and bands they like and clothes they like and things they want and relationships they want. I mean, I think the spiritual gifts is just a part of it. It's just a part of it. Like, I don't think it's healthy to look at these individuals as oracles or, you know, they're human beings that are just sort of more tapped into this.

• 1:18:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, right, right. And I think that's a really important point that you made there. It's like, we all have different gifts and abilities and it's just, I think, if you start to think that this person is gifted beyond that, that can get quite messy.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Jay Shetty?

  In any way, for anyone.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  For sure. You know, I mean, Lily likes biking and go-karting and John Paul loved poetry and swimming and manatees and like Mia from episode one wants to be a writer. She wants to go to Japan. Like, the most important thing is to know any individual, what makes them tick, what their interests are, what they want to do with their lives. I mean, like, these are the questions we all should be entitled to answer for ourselves and every non-speaking individual, and I just want people to like remember this, is an individual that should be met in that way.

• 1:19:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  And this is, these gifts, if they appear in such an individual, is beautiful and cool, but it's not, it doesn't define them.

• 1:19:15Jay Shetty?

  Can you explain the hill?

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Well, this was something that didn't form for me as like a valid thing immediately. There was a few non-speakers in Atlanta that said that they connect on the hill telepathically and that it's a chat room, basically, a telepathic chat room where you can tune in. And Houston was the name who named it. He actually named it the chat on the hill, the talk on the hill. And then his good friend, John Paul, said that he goes there and he would put pillows on his head to block out stuff. And then his girlfriend Lily said she goes there and that a lot of people congregate there and that there's more than one hill. So I had a hard time wrapping my head around that. And at first I'm like, okay, it's an Atlanta thing. Like, the individuals in Atlanta are doing this. Where I really Talk about a two by four, like, there's been a few moments. And for one, for me, was when I had

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  just met this new teacher in Chicago. She had no idea about telepathy at all. She had reached out to Dr. Powell because her students were talking about ghosts and seeing ghosts and knowing things. And it totally weirded her out. Not weird, like, it was just weird. So she, she happens to call with me and Dr. Powell. She's explaining this. I did a follow-up call with her once she saw that telepathy was happening. And then she said, and you would not believe it, like, some of the kids are saying they go to this place called The Hill. And on The Hill, they can learn this and learn that. And I thought, what? And then, fully third person was this minister from like, a mega church in Arizona. I met him. He was very nervous to talk about this. He was writing his own book. He thought this was only in his congregation, that he, you know, again, it was a miracle that he alone was privy

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  to. I met him, and then he was telling me a story about how one of his students would just met with another non-speaker from another church in another state. And he's like, and they were talking about the weirdest thing when they're getting on the phone. They started spelling to each other, "Meet me at The Hill." And he's like, "Do you know what that is?" And I think I was stunned, because now here's someone in Minnesota talking about Arizona, Chicago, and Atlanta. So, after, I had to go through a lot of Hill references to believe it myself. And now, there's no doubt in my mind.

• 1:21:09Jay Shetty?

  That's, I can't wait to learn more about that.

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool. It's very frustrating, I think, for a lot of non-speakers, because you want to do something, and your body totally betrays you. You might want to enter a room, and instead, you're leaving it. And the only time it seems like they're able to really, like, gather and communicate their true thoughts is through spelling. That mind-body disconnect taught me a lot, because, for instance, Akil, who we feature in episode two, he didn't know where his body was. And for a lot of people who need to be touched when they first learn spelling, it's because they don't know where their body is. Akil didn't know he had fingers. He had to be massaged over and over. I remember Houston, when he first was spelling, he said he needed heavy boots, so he knew where the ground was. And so, you can imagine, if you don't feel connected to your body, to the point where you don't even think you have one. You're living in the mental world.

• 1:21:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  That consciousness is fundamental.

• 1:21:55Jay Shetty?

  That makes even more sense now.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  I think it's less about non-speaking. People, I don't think it has much to do with autism at all. I think it has to do with apaxia and not being connected to your body.

• 1:22:05Jay Shetty?

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• 1:22:50Jay Shetty?

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• 1:23:34Jay Shetty?

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• 1:24:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that is completely, yeah, that makes so much more sense. When I was looking at studies on monks' brains, they found that when monks were doing the deepest meditations, if they put their hand on a hot plate, which most of us would touch and immediately take our hand back, that they were able to keep their hand on it because they're disconnected from the physical experience.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:38Jay Shetty?

  So it didn't feel hot to them at all because they were so removed from their physical state.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:24:45Jay Shetty?

  And those studies have been proven and shown. And just that idea of being so deep in meditation that you didn't feel,

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Jay Shetty?

  you know, heat. And I think people, you know, it's really interesting to think about Eastern traditions. There's a beautiful statement by C.S. Lewis that says, "You don't have a soul, you are the soul and you have a body." And going to your consciousness point, that idea that because we live as if we are the body.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:11Jay Shetty?

  Eastern traditions would argue that therefore we only know what the body knows. We only know our limits.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:18Jay Shetty?

  Based on physicality. But for those of us that know we're not the body and that we're consciousness, so much more is accessible.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:25Jay Shetty?

  And that's where your point around belief system and value system and everything else come in that, oh, wait a minute, I'm not, I'm not actually just limited by this.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  Right, absolutely. And I think that like when we understand that, apraxia and the mind-body disconnect, and that can help inform a lot of the confusion around spelling. You know, because certainly, if you don't know where your body is, when you're learning, it helps to touch. And that's why when people throw facilitate communication out because you're being touched, it's like, no, if that's working for someone and they need pressure the whole time to know where their hand is, put pressure on their hand so they can spell.

• 1:25:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Awesome, cool. Like, let's assist people to get to their best selves and their whole, you know. But yeah, the mind-body disconnect, the not knowing where your body is, because non-speakers say that over and over and over and over again, that they're not living in their body, they don't feel their body, they don't have control over their body. And so, so then what is the reality? It's not the body reality. It's a different reality.

• 1:26:18Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  And this is what we're all tuning into, this different reality that they're able to talk about as messengers because of a plight, honestly. I think most of them feel very frustrated about the inability to control their body, but the gifts that come along with it. And John Paul, when he said, I think Libby once asked him like, You know, what about, what do you love most about yourself? And he was like, everything, you know? So I do think like that experience of not being tethered to your body can be beautiful. It's just different from what we're seeing. We're seeing a body that's having a very difficult time managing in the world. But their experience is not bodily to the same degree.

• 1:26:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I was speaking to one of my friends the other day and he was, he's very deep into AI. And he was explaining to me that if you looked at an extremely, extremely below average individual in terms of IQ, Einstein was only 2.4 more times intelligent than that person. And then if you look at AI, we can't even comprehend how intelligent AI is because AI is going to be, is already a hundred times more intelligent than that, million times more intelligent, could be expansively 10 million times more intelligent than Einstein, which is bizarre to even experience and imagine, because how could someone be more intelligent and have a better IQ than Einstein?

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:33Jay Shetty?

  And it's just really interesting when you look at it from that dimension that I think we're already with AI experiencing something quite remarkable.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:41Jay Shetty?

  And quite beyond.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:42Jay Shetty?

  Like it's, it's quite phenomenal that we kind of take it as something that's to some degree becoming normalized.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:49Jay Shetty?

  When it's really not that normal that there are going to be, and just because we see it as computers and tech, but being able to understand us, being able to know our needs, being able to know what we want to hear. I've read so many articles with people now using AI as their therapist and, and everything else and feeling so understood.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:28:09Jay Shetty?

  And, but, but that's the same kind of curiosity and openness we have to have over here.

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:28:13Jay Shetty?

  Of just being open to marvel at these incredible abilities. I don't know if that resonates or, or am I getting it wrong?

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  I mean, no, I think, I think it's fascinating. I mean, I think we can attach so much of our personal needs onto, onto anything. You know what I mean? And. AI is just a, all of this is converging at the same time. And that's what's, that's what's most interesting.

• 1:28:35Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  AI and like what that's making us question about consciousness. I think even like psychedelics and people's embrace of how that can help with mental health and explorations of consciousness and the trials they're doing where people feel like they are certain there's more, you know? And that's happening with this exposure of what the non-speakers are hoping to, I think, teach us alongside sudden interest and validation on UAP. Like, it seems like it's all converging at once.

• 1:29:02Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  And we're just like in the water of it right now. Like, I don't even think we realize how significant this moment is for humans and consciousness. It's a cool time to be alive.

• 1:29:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How do we make sure that it's not made quiet and put down? Because I imagine that that's, you know, a natural thing that's happened in the past as well.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that it's been, it's backed down and just...

• 1:29:21Jay Shetty?

  Because it's seen as scary. It's, or people are like, oh, this is bad, or it's, you know, whatever. But so how do, how do we make sure that we keep asking these questions and...

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  I think social media has changed everything because I think the scaffolding of control was always very powerful before because it's like someone had the ability to silence you and no one would know that happened. Like, you could be just quieted and not be able to get your truth out. And they'd steal your camera and it was done, you know? But I feel like, or there'd just be a mass discredit, you know, discrediting of someone. What's happening now with social media is you can get out a truth very quickly and find other people who agree and concur and thumb up it. And, and it's much, it's much more difficult to make someone seem bonkers, especially when there's a lot of people validating a truth.

• 1:30:08Jay Shetty?

  If scientists and others in the community are open to wanting to go and be with the non-speakers and be a part of this, how do we do, and how does the general public do it in a way that isn't disrespectful, isn't, because I can imagine that... Testing and things can be exhausting for these individuals. They're humans. We're kind of, you know, this whole process is somewhat invasive of.

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I I've get very nervous about that. And I feel like scientists and researchers, it's like you have your questions, but like, just let's pause for a second, you know? And one of the things that we've been talking about and trying to start a foundation for and put like profits that come in from the film or anything or donations to this foundation that maybe could try to open up centers in different states or cities where non speakers can go and learn to spell for free in an affordable way and and have physical therapy and parents can have respite care where they can bring their child here and they know they'll be well taken care of and the non speakers can have their physical, mental and spiritual needs met. And then then only then it's like if if there's an interest that one individual is like, I do

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  want to study whales, then maybe like through these centers, a scientist who's a marine biologist could apply and they have to learn how to spell and they have to like really get vetted and be on the level of the non speakers. And then there could be like a way that maybe where they pay the non speaker or work with them. And so that way it's equitable and it's all centered on the non speaker and really working to fit into their world instead of asking them to be a square peg fitting into like the round hole of our world. And so I think we just have to approach it differently. The thing that makes me sick is the idea of someone being like, I want to test non speakers and do this and do that. Like, that is gross. And I can't imagine, I don't think many families with, I mean, some very science minded people might, but like, I know

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  one of our individuals that is in our project, like really wants to learn plant medicine. How awesome. But like, let's find a scientist who deeply cares and just doesn't want to like ask questions and cut and run, like pay the individual, you know, bring them into the fold, help with their education, you know? So there's a way to do it ethically and we just have to get there first.

• 1:32:13Jay Shetty?

  How does that feel after three and a half years of work? I'm sure like finally sharing with the world and receiving those emails yourself and what's that experience been like?

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  I think the worst outcome for me, which would have been really awful, would have been like if we were getting emails being like, this isn't true, this isn't true. But the opposite has happened, where it's so many parents who are like, I always thought this was, but you know, my wife didn't believe me, or husband didn't believe me, or blank, blank, blank. And now like, we're having open conversations and we're sending it to the nieces and nephews and uncles and aunts. And like, that's really cool. And it's just so beautiful. I mean, it's beautiful because I think people are finding community and. My biggest concern always is for people to live like a transparent, whole life. Like, don't compartmentalize, don't lie in secret, just be all of you. And I think for non-speaking individuals, they are able to now be all of themselves

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  because so many more people are willing and able to see them and receive them. And that is beautiful. Like, there's no, there's nothing that can compare to that.

• 1:33:12Jay Shetty?

  And how has it impacted your personal, spiritual and consciousness journey of understanding yourself on a deeper level?

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  I mean, I believe all sorts of things I didn't three and a half years ago. I certainly believe that consciousness survives. I actually think consciousness is not local. I don't believe our body creates it. I mean, I think we help and assist in that, and our memories and all those things work together. But I think we are working with consciousness coming in from somewhere else. I certainly believe in things like precognition and Psy abilities and even mediumship ability, stuff like that that I didn't, that I dismissed before. Yeah, I mean, I'm forever changed, you know? And it's cool, like, I have young kids and it's cool watching how they're growing up with these things. I mean, they hear about it all the time. They're hearing the Zoom calls. They're, and, and it's just part of their life. Like, I saw my daughter playing Barbies the other day, and they were, and this is actually a few years back

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  when I was still working on it. And they were divvying up like, okay, your Barbies are doing this. And this is the identity of your Barbies. My, my daughter goes, and my two Barbies are non-speakers. And then her friend is like, well, how are they going to talk? And she's like, through telepathy. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, that's great, you know, just watching it, like, being part and parcel of, you know, their world is cool.

• 1:34:26Jay Shetty?

  What's the wildest thought of yours they read when you didn't know?

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  I mean, it was an embarrassing thought, and I had no idea the extent, and I'm not even going to say what it was, but we were sitting at a table, and it was after a long day of shooting. Dr. Powell was there. We had another neuroscientist there. I think Katie was there, Houston was there. And I remember, I don't remember exactly what the thought was, but it was enough that it was like an embarrassing, silly thing. And all of a sudden, the second I thought, Houston like laughed and like spit out his beer practically. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, he heard my thought. And that was where I was like, wow, okay. Like, because when we were doing the telepathy test, it's one thing. But when you experience it over like a beer and you realize someone heard your thought and like laughed. That was, I'm like, okay, I gotta like clean it out again, clear it out.

• 1:35:08Jay Shetty?

  Gosh. Kai, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you really wanted to share? Or something that's on your heart or mind that you didn't get to speak on that you would like to share?

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  The final episode of the telepathy tapes, I gave the floor to non-speakers from all over the world. And I think the best lessons are there. And like one thing that I think about all the time is one of the non-speakers said that kindness is the best way to evolve. And so I just want people to, to think about that. And when people are very afraid about, you know, one thing you didn't ask about was like the fear about reading thoughts. And I had to think about that a lot over the past few years, that why does that so scary to people? And I think it's scary because people don't maybe like the thoughts in their head or it's too, you know, they'd feel too exposed. But if we are capable of this and we're being called maybe to like get to a place where this is a communication we're all capable of, then we're first called to like clean our own thoughts a little bit.

• 1:35:59Speaker 01

  And that's easy to control, how you think about people, how you think about yourself, how you think about the world around you, the choices you're making. And if you are conscious about those thoughts all the time and making them pure and loving, it's not scary if someone's reading them, you know? So I think that like, I love that, that kindness is the best way to evolve. Because some non-speakers are saying, hey, we are all capable of this. This is where we're gonna go. We all have to do that hard work of like becoming more loving, kind individuals first.

• 1:36:26Jay Shetty?

  Do you think it's possible that we will become capable or have the opportunity to become capable to communicate that way?

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  Many non-speakers I've met have said that we are capable of that. And I, again, I, I trust their, their insights more than I trust my own. I do think we're all capable of it. I've seen it turned on in teachers. I think it's all possible. And I think for those, it's scary to take a look inside, let that be a mirror, you know? And it's a beautiful thing because one non-speaker, and then I know it will end, but like one non-speaker once said that, look, if you say the word Thanksgiving. You've said the word Thanksgiving, but if I telepathically send it, you're given the football game on and your uncle pulling up and sleeping in your childhood bed and the smells and like your favorite candy and seeing this person and the smell of your mom's hair and like all the whole thing.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  And it's an experience that is so immensely beautiful and there's no sarcasm and there's no withholding and there's no exaggerating. It's all just the pure. And to me, it's like, wow, what would happen if we were all living that way? So if we do get to a space where more of us are telepathically communicating, I think it's gonna be good for humanity, not bad.

• 1:37:34Jay Shetty?

  If you knew what someone was thinking, how would you speak differently too? I think that's the other side. One side is being able to read and

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:42Jay Shetty?

  maybe someone cleaning their thoughts, but if I could see what you were thinking, how would I speak to you differently? How would I look at you differently? How would I connect with you differently? It would transform hopefully how we'd take care of each other as well.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  It does, totally. And I've learned that just being around non-speakers is making sure, like in my thoughts, it's like, okay, like they're being read, so just make sure they're... And then so the whole day, you're empty, actually. It's like you're meditating in a way. Like I keep my thoughts really empty. And I actually find even like directing with them is easier to do that. Like you just empty out and you feel better at the end of the day. You feel great at the end of the day. You're living in the moment. Because most of our thoughts are what just happened or what's in the future. And when you're just empty, you're like totally present. And so that's the gift where I'm always like being with non-speakers, aware of my thoughts and just trying to have none.

• 1:38:32Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  It's a beautiful way to live.

• 1:38:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's beautiful. Kai, it has been so fascinating talking to you, honestly. I think the work that you're doing is so inspiring. And truly, there's been very little that I think we've had to be curious about for a long time when it comes to this space. And I really feel like you've brought something to the fore that we can all be spiritually curious about. And the questions that you're asking are so... Intriguing to me than questions that I believe we all should be looking for the answers. I think for a long time, we've thought about physical questions like, how do we make the body stronger? And how do we sleep better? And how do, and those are really important questions. I stand by that. We do that a lot on this show. But similarly, I think we're all asking questions of like, why do we exist? And why am I here?

• 1:39:19Jay Shetty?

  And, you know, do I really understand the abilities that I have? And, and especially for those that have been seen as, like you said, that they're not in there. To realize that there is a purpose, there is a value, there is a gift, there is, of course, there is already, but inherently. But there's so much more that we don't know. And so I'm so grateful for your time and energy, not just today, but for the last three and a half years of you dedicating your life to this purpose. And for sharing it with me so openly and graciously with me and my audience. And I'm sure everyone, if they're not already listening to the telepathy tapes, which I'm sure they are, will go back and listen or will listen for the first time and, and help pass it on.

• 1:40:00Jay Shetty?

  How else can people support or connect if they want to be a part of this work with you and encourage you or even want to write to you? How can they get in touch or how can they follow along?

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we are on all the social media at the telepathy tapes. I would encourage people though, I mean, my biggest ask is please, like, just presume competence. If you see a non-speaker, if you meet a non-speaker, if you work with non-speakers, they're in there, they're human beings. Help them get on boards, learn to spell. And if you are interested in getting engaged with non-speakers, you could become a spelling to communicate partner by going to S2C or spelling to communicate or spellers method. Like, just go look into this because we need more spellers. I mean, that's the biggest ask is just that everyone starts assisting them and meeting them and presuming competence. That's everything to me.

• 1:40:49Jay Shetty?

  I, I, I hope we can stay in touch that I can ask you more questions here, updates and continue this conversation offline as well. I feel like there's so many great spiritual conversations to be had and shared. And I can't wait to see where this work goes. So here as a supporter and cheerleader and look forward to learning lots more.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you for having me on.

• 1:41:09Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

• 1:41:33Speaker 05

  Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say, I like this enough for other people to see it.

• 1:41:45Speaker 06

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