Roxie Nafousi: Struggle With Low Self-Worth & No Confidence? (Use This Life-Changing 3-Step Method!)

What’s been making you doubt yourself lately? What do you think triggered that feeling? Today, Jay welcomes back his friend Roxie Nafousi to unpack what confidence actually looks and feels like, not the glossy, loud, performative version, but the quiet inner knowing that you are enough as you are. They start by breaking down how much of our insecurity comes from the stories we tell ourselves: the overthinking before we walk into a room, the mental replay after we walk out, and the way we let validation, or the lack of it, shape our worth. Roxie then opens up about something she’s never shared publicly: her long struggle with body dysmorphic disorder. She talks honestly about the thoughts that dominated her life, the fear of being seen, and the belief that changing her appearance would quiet the constant self-criticism. Jay meets her with compassion as they unpack how these patterns form, how they shape the way you move through the world, and how healing begins with learning to speak to yourself with empathy instead of judgment. Jay and Roxie offer a roadmap that anyone can follow: mastering your inner voice, letting go of the pressure to be liked by everyone, celebrating the small wins, and choosing to show up as the version of yourself your higher self would be proud of. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Redefine Confidence From the Inside Out How to Stop Seeking External Validation How to Manage Comparison Before It Controls You How to Think Like Your Higher Self How to Break Free From People-Pleasing How to Handle Rejection Without Blaming Yourself How to Replace Self-Criticism With Self-Awareness When you start choosing compassion over judgment, intention over fear, and growth over perfection, you slowly reconnect with the part of yourself that’s always been there. The journey isn’t about becoming someone new, it’s about finally seeing who you’ve been all along. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 04:21 Is External Validation Ever Healthy? 08:25 A 7-Step Path to Rebuilding Confidence 10:57 How Men and Women Show Confidence Differently 12:29 Mastering the Thoughts That Shape Your Reality 17:19 Self-Awareness vs. Self-Criticism 22:28 Meet the Best Version of You 26:26 Stop Trying to Be Liked by Everyone! 31:49 How Encouragement Boosts Performance 34:07 You Can’t Be Everyone’s Favorite and That’s Okay 38:42 People-Pleasing vs. Making People Happy 42:57 Practicing Radical Acceptance After Rejection 44:54 Your Mind Creates Stories That Aren’t True 47:16 Taking Responsibility Without Blaming Yourself 50:44 Why Feeling Worthy Now Matters Most 53:18 Healing the Roots of Deep Self-Loathing 01:06:27 Why Vulnerability Is a Form of Confidence 01:10:25 Your Mind Is More Powerful Than You Think 01:13:10 Are We Too Exposed to Our Own Reflection? 01:17:18 Managing BDD With Compassion and Awareness 01:22:04 The Importance of Celebrating Ourselves 01:24:09 What’s the Difference Between Confidence and Arrogance 01:27:45 How to Make Self-Celebration a Daily Habit 01:29:51 Catch People Doing Things Right Episode Resources: Roxie Nafousi | Website Roxie Nafousi | Instagram Roxie Nafousi | Facebook Roxie Nafousi | X Roxie Nafousi | LinkedIn Roxie Nafousi | TikTok Manifest: 7 Steps to Living Your Best LifeConfidence: Eight Steps to Knowing Your Worth See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Jay Shetty?

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• 1:53Jay Shetty?

  And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1

• 2:36Jay Shetty?

  Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 2:46Roxie Nafousi?

  Confidence is about being able to walk into any room unapologetically yourself and walk out of it not worrying what everyone else thought of you.

• 2:55Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. I am committed to making a healing world, not one that is finished, complete or perfect, but one where we're all a work in progress. And today to help us do that, to heal from the inside out, to work on some of the biggest challenges that we all struggle with, whether it's insecurities, whether it's self doubt, whether it's a lack of self trust, whether it's feeling like we're not enough, maybe you felt not smart enough, not beautiful enough, not thoughtful enough, not tall enough, whatever it may be. And it all affects a part of our life that we call confidence. And today's guest is none other than my dear friend, Roxie Nafousi.

• 3:39Jay Shetty?

  Her new book is called Confidence: Eight Steps to Knowing Your Worth. She's the bestselling author of Manifest. She's been on the show before. You loved our episode together and I'm so excited to welcome back Roxy Nafousi. Roxy, it's great to have you back.

• 3:53Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, thank you so much for having me. I mean, I couldn't believe I got to sit in this chair once, so to be here twice, what is this life?

• 4:02Jay Shetty?

  Honestly, like since the moment we met, we hit it off. And I shared last time just how many people in my life read Manifest. I've gifted it to so many people as well. And anyone that's read it, anyone that connects with your work and knows we know each other will message me and just say, this book was awesome, like I love her work. And to see you continue to rise and soar and now create this book as well, again, in your signature style of being poignant, effective, relatable, simple, it's so powerful.

• 4:33Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, thank you so much.

• 4:34Jay Shetty?

  And I'm so glad you dedicated time to confidence.

• 4:36Roxie Nafousi?

  Thank you. No, I'm so, so honoured. Thank you so much.

• 4:40Jay Shetty?

  Okay, so let's dive in, Roxy. I wanna, confidence is such a big thing. I wanted to ask you, how do you define the word confidence?

• 4:48Roxie Nafousi?

  So I think there's so many different ways to define confidence. And I think for me, confidence is ultimately about self-worth. It's about knowing that you are enough exactly as you are. And I think what confidence isn't, and the way I don't define it, is as being an extrovert. So a lot of people think that if you are confident, it must mean that you're comfortable being loud, or you're charismatic, and you kind of think that that's what it's about. But for me, that's not it at all. You know, I think confidence is grounding, it's quiet, it's stable. And one of my favourite definitions of confidence is that confidence

• 5:30Roxie Nafousi?

  is about being able to walk into any room, unapologetically yourself, and walk out of it, not worrying what everyone else thought of you. And I think when you can get to that place, that's when you know you've reached it.

• 5:42Jay Shetty?

  I like that definition. That's such a brilliant way of putting it, because I think we are all overthinking before we walk into a room, what's everyone gonna think of me?

• 5:51Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Jay Shetty?

  And then we walk out, we're all thinking, what did they think of me?

• 5:54Roxie Nafousi?

  Absolutely.

• 5:55Jay Shetty?

  And then you spend the whole car journey home, wondering everything you did, and whether someone saw you drop your spoon, or spill a bit of wine, or drop some food, or whatever it may be, right? You're over-analysing every moment.

• 6:06Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 6:07Jay Shetty?

  And you're wondering, well, does that, do they think I'm smart? Do they think I'm clever? Do they think I'm interesting? Do they think I'm boring? One thing you said was really interesting to me, and I wanna kind of go down that road is, How do introverts and extroverts demonstrate confidence differently? Or does it even look different?

• 6:25Roxie Nafousi?

  I think that, I suppose, I mean, I've never considered that before, but I think that extroverts, probably they feel most comfortable when they can be social, when they can, um, you know, make people feel comfortable in their space, make them feel seen, heard, they're good at conversation, um, you know, getting a group together and, you know, and, and they just feel good in that environment. I think for an introvert, it doesn't mean that it's, it's really about having, like I said those words before, that quiet, grounded confidence. So you don't need to be the loudest in the room because you don't need, you're not trying to prove yourself. And that's the really confidence isn't about proving yourself.

• 7:08Roxie Nafousi?

  It's about knowing you're enough and not needing anyone else to kind of validate that for you.

• 7:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Why, why is it that we, it feels so obvious, like, is there a healthy pursuit of validation or is validation all bad?

• 7:24Roxie Nafousi?

  I think that some, look, it's impossible to really think that we're not going to want any validation at all. Like, of course we do. And I think that we should need some because we need to be like upstanding members of society and respect other people and also helps to, um, encourage us to strive to be better, to be better in as people, as individuals, in our careers, in our relationships, you know, so it is important to motivate us to be the best that we can be, which is great. But I think the problem is, is where validation, well, look, let's say that, let's start with this. Evolutionary, we needed to belong,

• 8:08Roxie Nafousi?

  we, to be part, to survive in a tribe, right? And so it was really important for us to be liked by other people or to, you know, to be part of something. What's happened in the modern day is we've taken that kind of like evolutionary need to belong, but instead of it being Kind of important for our survival. It's now how we determine how enough we are or the or the measuring stick of which we kind of measure our worth. And so I think that, you know, yes, we do need some validation to keep us growing, but we've just taken it so far that now other people's opinions matter more to us than our own.

• 8:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I think you're so right that that that switch has gone from being, does my class think my trainers or my sneakers are cool? To now, everything's broadcast to the whole world and it's measured. So you've got 10 likes on a post and someone got 20 and someone got 20 million and someone got 20,000. And so you're so right that now that validation has become a matter of worth, net worth as well, and indicative of how much attention you get. Whereas before, you're in your classroom or even your tribe.

• 9:23Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 9:23Jay Shetty?

  And you're like, yeah, if I've got 20 people that are generally okay with me, I'm fine.

• 9:28Roxie Nafousi?

  The problem with it as well is it changes our self-perception.

• 9:32Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about that.

• 9:32Roxie Nafousi?

  So let's say, and I know you love that quote, because I love it too, that I am not who I think I am, I'm not who you think I am, I'm who I think you think I am. And I kind of explain it like this. So I I was still sat next to someone at a dinner once and she was an influencer. And she said, you know, sometimes I'll post something that I really love on Instagram and it doesn't get any likes. And then I think that that post is terrible. So you start with, let's say you have a picture that you love of your family and you think this is such a beautiful picture, I love it. And then you post it and it doesn't get that measure of like that you are expecting. So it gets 10 likes, let's say, and that for you doesn't feel enough.

• 10:14Roxie Nafousi?

  And then instead of you thinking, okay, that just maybe not many people saw it today, maybe it was the algorithm, you actually start to question your own decision. Why did I post that? Was it even a good photo? And so actually, instead of Thinking that it's about anything else, or there's any other reason for it. You change your own perception of yourself or your own opinion of yourself. And so I think that's where it's really damaging is that, um, yeah, we don't just look for external validation to guide us, we look for it to tell us what we should think about ourselves.

• 10:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's, that's so good. And, and you made me think about how we all post that caption of felt cute might delete later.

• 10:55Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Jay Shetty?

  And it's like that idea of like, I felt I looked cute.

• 10:58Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Jay Shetty?

  So I posted this.

• 11:00Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 11:01Jay Shetty?

  And now I'm gonna see if everyone else felt I looked cute. And if they don't, I might delete it later. And that's that mindset that you're saying where it's like, oh no, but I thought I looked really good here.

• 11:09Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 11:09Jay Shetty?

  And I wanted to share that. And now you're so right. Now you're making me feel like I don't.

• 11:15Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 11:16Jay Shetty?

  Look good in a picture I thought I looked good in, which ma- makes me feel even worse. What are some of the other ways? Where does this show up? I love that example that you just brought it to of posting a picture of your family or this felt cute might delete later. What are other things that you hear from people of where we're seeing a lack of confidence show up? What are people worried about? What are people scared about? What are you hearing from people that you work with and meet and when you're traveling, touring, speaking, what are you hearing?

• 11:41Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh gosh, I mean, I think that lack of confidence shows up in every single area of our lives. And I think that, you know, the, I, obviously my first book was manifest, which was seven steps to, um, living your best life. And it was that seven step guide. And step two is remove fear and doubt. And people would often say to me, Roxy, the, the step I struggle with the most when it comes to manifesting and to manifest, we must, we can only manifest what we subconsciously believe we are worthy of receiving. So it's all rooted in self-worth, which is why confidence is such a great extension to my work. And people would always say the hardest step is step two, remove fear and doubt.

• 12:19Roxie Nafousi?

  Because this insecurity, these low self-worth, this feeling of lack of confidence is so embedded into us and into our kind of belief system, um, that really it's, is the hardest thing to work on. It's the hardest thing to undo. And so whether people are looking for love, whether they're trying to, um, grow within their careers, whether they're trying to build on their own, you know, they're starting their own business, whatever area of their life it is. Usually the reason they're not fulfilling their potential or growing in the way that they want to is is because of a lack of confidence. And what I always think is really interesting with confidence is that we always assume if

• 13:01Roxie Nafousi?

  we were sat in a group of people, we would always assume that the person sat next to us was free of it, that they are so confident. We don't see their self doubt, we don't see their insecurity. But actually, when I do my live shows and I say, you know, to an audience of thousands of people, and I'll say, who here can honestly say they are completely free from self doubt, insecurity, or feelings of low self worth? Not one person will raise their hand. And so you really start to understand that this lack of confidence is a universal experience. It's something that actually binds us all. And I think there's so much vulnerability and connection to be found in kind of sharing it a bit more with each other and being more open about it.

• 13:45Roxie Nafousi?

  And it's also so comforting because we remember that, you know, we are not seeing what other people are going through mentally.

• 13:52Jay Shetty?

  Do you feel that there's a difference between men and women and how they experience confidence?

• 13:57Roxie Nafousi?

  Do you know, I I I think that women have more pressures. And so I think that we can assume that it's much harder for women to feel confident. But I think it's harder for men to express it. And so I also really feel for men because I think as a group of women, it's much easier for us to go to each other and say, oh, God, I feel so gross today. Or, um, oh, God, you know, I really fucked up in that meeting or whatever. And I think we give each other more like therapy. Whereas I I assume, and I'm, you know, uh, generalizing here, but men aren't as good as open up, opening up to each other about their insecurities, you know, is my opinion.

• 14:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, it it's a really interesting thing to think about. And I think that's a really like interesting observation. Because I I wouldn't say you're wrong. I think when my male friends and obviously because of my work and who I am, I guess more men and me do have those types of conversations. But in general, even when I have my male friends being really open about something. It's hard, like it comes with a very like, this is a big thing. Whereas I assume as you're saying, like when you're talking, it's just chit chat and it's how you feel. Whereas this is like, hey, I've got something to tell you. And then it's a moment of this is what I've been struggling with. And yeah, it feels a lot heavier and therefore it feels a lot heavier to that person in one sense as well. Your first chapter is called Master Your Thoughts.

• 15:27Jay Shetty?

  You write, your mind can be your home or your prison. You get to choose which. Talk to me about how your mind can be a home or a prison.

• 15:36Roxie Nafousi?

  When we really think about what are the barriers to confidence.

• 15:41Roxie Nafousi?

  Our inner critic, I think everyone would agree is the biggest one. And I think that what I've really come to understand is how powerful our thoughts are. And that our thoughts really do shape our reality. And the reason for this is because thoughts become beliefs when they're repeated so many times. And what we believe about ourselves determines our whole experience of the world. Because it becomes the filter through which you view everything, every interaction, every experience. Everything is filtered through what you believe about yourself and the world and then interpreted.

• 16:22Roxie Nafousi?

  And so for a really clear example of this would be, let's say that you were to hold a belief that you are naturally not good with people. You're, you have a belief that you're boring. Perhaps you had a belief that you were bad at making friends. You then go to a dinner party and you meet someone new for the first time. And because you hold this belief, the way that you interpret this person's social cues, whether they you might really focus on the fact that they look over your shoulder. You may notice the fact that they didn't ask you a question, but you really focus on the fact that they just talked about themselves. And then you might really make the fact that they walked away to talk to someone else feel like this really big deal.

• 17:06Roxie Nafousi?

  And as a result of the fact that you're viewing it through this lens of, I know I'm not good with people or I'm not good at making new friends. What happens is you're focusing on the wrong cues and then you likely become a bit defensive. And then you create a self fulfilling prophecy. Um. Whereas if somebody had a belief like, I'm really good with people, I I I'm great, I'm charismatic. People generally tend to like me. You're gonna have the exact same interaction. You won't notice any of those cues. You won't misinterpret maybe a neutral expression as disinterest. And so you're probably gonna respond in a more positive way to that person and be more open. And then you'll create a a reinforce that belief in yourself. And so this is happening all the time in our in our lives.

• 17:48Roxie Nafousi?

  And it's a lot easier for our brains to actually just find evidence to support what we already believe. Rather than kind of find conflicting evidence and then have a new way of thinking.

• 18:00Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 18:00Roxie Nafousi?

  And so our minds really are keeping us stuck in these like patterns. And I describe it like this in the book. Imagine that you're a comedian on stage. And you're on stage and you're giving your set and the audience are booing you. They're like, get off the stage. And essentially they're heckling you. Now, that comedian on stage um is never gonna be able to give their best performance, right? Because they're gonna feel self-conscious. They're gonna feel uh nervous. They're gonna be overthinking everything that's coming out of their mouth. And so it's not gonna be as relaxed. They might stumble on their words.

• 18:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Um. But if they were to go out and give the same set and the audience was there cheering them, like laughing. They are gonna be so much more likely to give to deliver their best. Their jokes are gonna be funnier. They're gonna remember things, you know, it's it's gonna be a fantastic show. Now, in our lives day to day, we are heckling ourselves. And so how do we expect ourselves to be able to put our best foot forward? And so it's really about understanding that our thoughts, which are then forming our beliefs, are having so much influence over not only how we feel, but who we become and and, you know, our whole lives.

• 19:20Roxie Nafousi?

  And so being able to master your thoughts um really is the kind of like first of these eight steps to knowing your worth.

• 19:28Jay Shetty?

  That heckle is so real. And it happens from the moment you wake up. Like you wake up and you look in the mirror and you go, I look so tired. Oh, I've put on a bit of weight. Oh, whatever it is, right? We all have our own version. I've got grey hairs. Oh, I've whatever it is. And then after that, you're like, oh, God, I'm late for work. And again, it's like everything and and we do it to ourselves every day, all day. Oh, I I shouldn't have spoken up in that meeting. Oh, I should have spoken up in that meeting. Oh, I said something stupid in that meeting. Oh, I should have said more. Oh, my, I'm not gonna get a promotion. Oh, I don't deserve, you know, whatever it is, it's just, it's crazy how incessant it is.

• 20:05Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:06Jay Shetty?

  And it's like every tiny move, it almost feels like you think someone's watching you on the big screen and analyzing every move. And I wanted to ask you though, what's the difference between self-awareness and self-criticism?

• 20:20Roxie Nafousi?

  It's the intention behind it. I think that self-awareness is, and I mean, is about being able to say, let's say you've gone into a meeting and you've given a presentation. And afterward, and during the presentation, maybe you do mess up, maybe you don't say the right thing, maybe it's not your best performance. And afterwards, if you were to come out, self-criticism would sound like, oh, you're such an idiot. Why did you do that? Typical that you would. You're never gonna get it. You've messed up. Self-awareness is, you know what? That wasn't your best. But how can we improve for the next time?

• 21:06Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, there's a kind of, there's a different way of approaching it. Because confidence is also not about ignoring all your flaws. It's not about just saying, oh, my God, I'm just perfect how I am. You know, I have a quote in the book where I say, confidence is knowing that you're a masterpiece and a work in progress at the same time. And so self-awareness is important. As humans, we need to be growing and evolving. But it's how can you actually notice perhaps your flaws, perhaps areas where you could be better and do better, but approach it in a way that feels really compassionate, that feels, because, you know, in that compassion, you're actually giving yourself the best opportunity. Think about a child, right? If you want a child to learn a new skill, you're not gonna go and just berate them.

• 21:48Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, when I'm teaching Wolf maths, if I'm like, oh, you idiot, how didn't you get that? He's gonna be like, forget it. I'm like, he would be traumatized. And he'd never, he'd hate maths for the rest of his life. And yet that's how we talk to ourselves all the time, with, we're just, you know, telling ourselves. We're just mean, we're mean to ourselves and it is so exhausting. And I know that so many people listening are just tired. They're just tired of constantly being in this battle with themselves. And you just get to a point and you're like, I just don't wanna live like this anymore.

• 22:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's so right. And it's interesting because we always say like, you should talk to yourself as you talk to a friend. But it's almost like talk to yourself like you talk to a child.

• 22:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 22:39Jay Shetty?

  Because from what you just said, with Wolf, like teaching him maths, it's like, there's an inner child inside every single one of us that is lacking in confidence, that was criticised and was heckled while they were growing up.

• 22:53Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 22:53Jay Shetty?

  It's not even talking to a friend, it's talking to this younger person inside of yourself and your younger self and saying, yeah, it's okay that you're not good at maths right now, like, you know, you wouldn't, you would, that's what you'd say to Wolf.

• 23:05Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 23:06Jay Shetty?

  And you wouldn't tell him to get his act together or grow up or you should get it by now.

• 23:10Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah. And it's, it's hard. It's really difficult when you are familiar with the inner critic. It is really challenging at first to be able to actually pause on the kind of like spiralling thoughts and speak to yourself kindly, you know, when I, if I ask people like, I want you to just repeat inside your head like, I love who I am, I am so thoughtful, I'm such a good friend. Um, I'm so proud of everything I've achieved. A lot of people will not even say it inside their heads, even though no one else can hear them because they feel cringe. They feel like it's embarrassing and that's how uncomfortable it is for most people.

• 23:55Roxie Nafousi?

  So I really don't want people to think that I assume it's really easy to change from having this inner critic to this kind inner cheerleader. But it is absolutely possible and with practice, it becomes more comfortable and it becomes easier. And so there's a, actually, there's a um, journaling prompt I'd love people to try. I I used it in my manifest daily journal and it's my favorite journal prompt. And it's a most a motivational message from my higher self. And every morning, I just would love people to try this. Just write down a kind message to yourself because what it's gonna do is it's gonna get you, help you really get to know that kind of voice and really give it more power, give it a character, give it space in your mind.

• 24:41Roxie Nafousi?

  And so when I started doing this practice myself, I would write something really generic like, you got this, right? And then as I started getting more used to it, I would write things, let's say I was nervous for something that day, I'd write something like, today's gonna be great, you worked really hard for this, do your best. Or if there was something I was really excited for that day, I'd say, go and enjoy every second. You um you deserve to be there, you know, this this is part of your journey, or whatever it was. And so I think that this can be a really powerful prompt for those people who think that I just don't even know where to start with talking to myself like my inner child or like a friend, this can just help you get to know that voice.

• 25:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I really like that.

• 25:30Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one hour workout to build strength, burn fat and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangestory.com slash onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details.

• 26:05Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need them most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications or location. In fact, people are finding Quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made twenty seven hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast.

• 26:51Jay Shetty?

  Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process. And once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way.

• 27:34Jay Shetty?

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• 27:52Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's what we have to understand is that even that inner critic is not us. It's just a rehearsed, habituated, conditioned voice that you've just practiced. So you've practiced that voice your whole life that says, you're a loser, you're not great, you're not enough, you're not good, whatever it is. And if you start practicing another voice, that will change.

• 28:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 28:12Jay Shetty?

  And that for me was always massively helpful in recognizing that you could change pretty much anything and everything if you wanted to and if you chose to. Because all you were living out was a habit and you weren't living out your destiny.

• 28:29Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 28:29Jay Shetty?

  As it, as if, and that's what we believe, we kind of believe like, oh, I'm born like this and this is what I have and this is what I'm living with. And really what you're saying is, no, if you master your thoughts.

• 28:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 28:39Jay Shetty?

  You can change your beliefs and therefore you can change your reality.

• 28:42Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 28:42Jay Shetty?

  I love the idea of a motivational message from your highest self.

• 28:45Roxie Nafousi?

  Mm hmm.

• 28:46Jay Shetty?

  Because that's even beyond being kinder to yourself. That's really saying, well, let's live your life from this point of view.

• 28:53Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 28:53Jay Shetty?

  And how that changes everything.

• 28:55Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 28:55Jay Shetty?

  And it's almost like, even if you went one day living like that, like even if you could just do twenty four hours of talking to yourself and looking at your life through your motivational message through your higher self, I feel, wow, I could accomplish so much.

• 29:09Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Jay Shetty?

  If I just lived up there.

• 29:11Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, God, yeah. So I have this great, um, great tool, actually. So if we think about our higher self, like what really is that? A higher self, for me, it's your most empowered self. It's the best you. And if you're struggling to kind of think about that version, what I would say is, close your eyes. And I want you to really think about you one year from now. And I want you to allow all your fears and doubts to just sit by the side. Like, you don't need them now. Set them aside for now. And I want you to imagine, one year from now, who was the best me that I could be? Who would I love to become? And really get to know that version of you. How would they walk into a room? How would they walk out of it? How do they feel about themselves? How do they, uh, how do they interact with the people in their lives?

• 29:55Roxie Nafousi?

  How do they feel when they're at work? And you really start to get this really clear idea of who is the best you. And that is your higher self. And then, how do you start to bring that version of you to life day to day? Well, you can do it in every decision that you make, because from the minute we wake up to the minute we go to bed, we make hundreds, thousands of decisions. And really, our life is just a culmination of all the decisions that we make, right? The choices that we make. And before every decision, before every choice, I want everybody listening to just ask themselves one question. What would my higher self do? And I want you to, like you said, try one day living like this. Should I, would they snooze their alarm? What would they eat for breakfast? Um, do they reply to this person?

• 30:40Roxie Nafousi?

  Do they say yes to this thing they don't wanna do? How do they go into work? What's their body language like today? You know, and I think when you start to realize that actually your higher self already exists, you just need to bring that version of you to life. I think it can be so empowering.

• 30:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that advice. It's, it's, yeah, it's such a, it's simple. We can all do it and, and it is just practicing, it's rehearsing. I, I think we don't realize that we're all, we've all been acting just with really negative lines. And we've learned them and rehearsed them for so long and we've got to start acting like that higher self to access it. And that's what's so interesting. I love what you said, that it's already there. But in order to access it, you have to act it, you have to be it, you have to live it, you have to practice it. And then you go, oh, wow, I do have that ability.

• 31:29Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Jay Shetty?

  It's what you were saying earlier, that if you went in and gave your presentation as if someone who was really comfortable. All of a sudden, you might actually notice you have other skills that you didn't even know you had.

• 31:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Jay Shetty?

  And when you're being scared about, oh, am I funny enough or am I clever enough? Or that just boils up everything else inside of you and dissipates. I wanted to skip to step three, yeah, because I want people to read the book. The book's called Confidence, Eight Steps to Knowing Your Worth. I'm picking my favorite steps and I want you to get the book to read the steps in between. I love this step, stop trying to be liked by everybody.

• 32:02Roxie Nafousi?

  My favorite step.

• 32:03Jay Shetty?

  This is, yeah, this is my favorite step too, because it's such an addiction and I had it for such a long time and it, of course, I, we all still deal with it, so it's not like I'm beyond it at all. But I remember it having such a hold of my life that I couldn't be.

• 32:22Jay Shetty?

  Authentic and that's what's so interesting is that we think that the people that are liked by everyone are authentic.

• 32:28Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Jay Shetty?

  Sometimes the people who are liked by everyone are the people who will tell you that they've just been wearing a mask and hiding their boundaries and ignoring their feelings about how they feel around people. And actually, the person who says no, or the person who says, I'm really sorry, I love you, but I can't make it, or the person who says, hey, I wish I could be there for you, but it's not possible, they're actually being honest and authentic because they're not bending and molding themselves to get you to like them. So when you say stop trying to be liked by everybody, you said, stop trying to be like everyone, you don't even like everyone.

• 33:03Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 33:03Jay Shetty?

  And I love that, like, I'm like, that's so good.

• 33:06Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, it was a quote I found on Instagram, I don't know who said it, yeah, stop trying to be liked by everyone, you don't even like everyone. It's so good, it's how the step starts. And look, this for me, it's, I just love this step. It was the most liberating step in my own journey. And I think will also be for most people listening, because again, we talk about the barriers to confidence. So one is of course the inner critic, right? That loud voice that is just telling you, you're not good enough, that's stopping you from putting your best foot forward. But the other is this constant concern of what will someone else think? And this is holding us back in so many ways, whether it's creating people pleasing behaviour,

• 33:47Roxie Nafousi?

  it's stopping ourselves, stopping us putting ourselves out there, taking risks because we have fear of judgment and shame. You know, there's so many things that is, that it's ruining for us really. And so I've come up in the book with these four essential truths, and I really love them. So I, shall we just go through?

• 34:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 34:06Roxie Nafousi?

  Okay. So the first essential truth is, nobody is really thinking about us as much as we think they are. So there's this thing called the spotlight effect, where we assume that people are perceiving our flaws as much as we are, but they're not. So let's say you have a spot on your face and you are convinced everybody's staring at it, and they're probably just not. Or maybe you're in the gym and you do your workout wrong, or you drop your weight and you think, oh my God, everyone has seen it. Again, they just don't, people don't perceive what you perceive. And I think that also, you know, when we're really honest with ourselves, nobody is tuning in to the next episode of your life. They just don't care.

• 34:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:46Roxie Nafousi?

  They really don't, and be comforted in that, you know, sometimes I see people on I don't, I don't, I don't mean this in like a mean way, but people will say on Instagram and I'll see them apologising like, oh, I'm so sorry, guys. And it's a genuine apology. You know, I haven't shown up online. And I'm like, you do not need to apologise. I, I'm certain no one noticed. Yeah. And I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean, and like, give yourself a break. If you wanna be offline, be offline. Like, you don't need to feel bad about it. Like, do that for yourself. So no one's really thinking about you as much as they, as we think they are. The second is you never really know what people are actually thinking of you. So I wanna give you um, a quick story of this, where this is when I first really realised this myself. So

• 35:29Roxie Nafousi?

  you're a public speaker, so you know that um, when you give performances on stage and people are listening to you, uh, when people are listening and they're concentrating, they look like they are intensely bored or they hate you. Okay, those are, that people's resting expressions are not warm in general. And when I first went on stage, it was my first ever workshop, I didn't know this. And so I went on stage and I was, you know, really nervous anyway, because I'd never done it before. I was really suffering outside my comfort zone. And I remember this particular woman, and she was wearing this pink tracksuit. And she honestly looked like I had just insulted her children.

• 36:11Roxie Nafousi?

  Like, she clearly couldn't stand me. And, you know, we have a negative bias and I was focusing my attention on this woman. And after the interval, I honestly couldn't believe that she'd come back.

• 36:24Roxie Nafousi?

  And anyway, I managed to get through the rest of the show and that was on the Saturday. And on the Monday, I got an email and it said, um, hi Roxy, I came to your show. I absolutely loved it and I was wondering if you did one-to-one coaching. I don't know if you remember me, but I was wearing the pink tracksuit. And I was like, ah, yes, you know, you really never know what somebody is thinking.

• 36:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Roxie Nafousi?

  And I think that we can take someone's, let's say they're directing an email or they don't reply to a WhatsApp. I mean, how many people listening have had their friends not message them back? And they're convinced they hate them or what have I done wrong? And then only for them to be like, oh, God, sorry, I was so busy or sorry this happened. You know, we just really never know. And so let's just stop putting narratives that put ourselves in this kind of disadvantage.

• 37:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's fascinating to hear that the first step is no one's really thinking about you.

• 37:17Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Jay Shetty?

  And the second is you have no idea what they are thinking about you. Brilliant. And it reminded me, I remember when I was at university, we were learning a case study about the acrobatics and performance company Cirque du Soleil.

• 37:31Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, yeah, God, I love it. Yeah.

• 37:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. So for anyone who's seen Cirque, it's this crazy like jumping through fire hoops, dancing acrobatics, like spinning around on a, you know, something suspended from the air, like it's unbelievable. And they would go and travel across the world and they'd have acrobats from all over the world. Whenever they'd perform in America, when they'd do a triple flip and fall through a hoop of fire and land on their feet, the audience would go ballistic, like they would be like cheering and like, you know, just like full on, just like pandemonium, right? The audience would go crazy. And then when they'd go to Asia, the audience would just do a small tap in their hands.

• 38:14Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 38:14Jay Shetty?

  And so this person's just like literally jumped through three hoops of fire, triple backflip, like done the most crazy thing. And they get this small tap.

• 38:22Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Jay Shetty?

  And they found that their acrobats would get really, like you were saying in your own, they would get really self-conscious and think they did a bad job. So they'd go to Cirque and be like, I think I did really bad today. Like, I don't think we did a good job today. They'd get really disheartened. Their performance would lack the next day. So Cirque started. Engaging, I don't know if they still do this, but at the time, they started engaging companies to train them in how different cultures show praise.

• 38:50Roxie Nafousi?

  Wow.

• 38:51Jay Shetty?

  Because all cultures show praise differently. So some parts of Asia, they loved it, but the way they showed praise was more muted. Whereas in America, the way they showed praise was really big and bold.

• 39:01Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 39:02Jay Shetty?

  And obviously, the UK would show praise differently, Europe would. And so this idea also of just like this woman in this pink, uh, pink sweat suit.

• 39:09Roxie Nafousi?

  But it's also exactly what we were saying before about how encouragement helps you perform better.

• 39:14Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 39:15Roxie Nafousi?

  So the fact that they, their, you know, acrobatics was kind of deteriorating slightly because they weren't getting the encouragement that they needed. And I think we naturally need encouragement and that needs to start with ourselves.

• 39:29Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, exactly. And I think we all know that, we all know the days also, just to show how external validation also doesn't carry us. And what you're saying about the voice in your head, we all know days where everyone keeps telling you, you're amazing.

• 39:43Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 39:44Jay Shetty?

  And you don't feel it.

• 39:46Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 39:46Jay Shetty?

  It doesn't matter how many people tell you, you look amazing, you feel amazing, you're doing amazing, when you don't feel it. Because when you don't feel it, all of that just doesn't matter.

• 39:56Roxie Nafousi?

  Absolutely.

• 39:57Jay Shetty?

  But then when you feel it inside, even if someone said you didn't do amazing, you can still feel confident in yourself.

• 40:03Roxie Nafousi?

  So the third truth is you can't please all the people all the time. My mom used to say that to me growing up. And when I first started getting into this work, I remember thinking, you know, I was a self-confessed addict a year ago. And now I'm, what, trying to speak about self-development? Like, who is gonna, like, what are people gonna think? They're gonna think I'm a joke. Like, they're not gonna take me seriously. They're going to think I'm too young. They're gonna think this or that. And I remember finding it really challenging because, you know, it was stopping me doing what I really wanted to pursue. And then I thought about the people that inspired me, whether that was, you know,

• 40:47Roxie Nafousi?

  Brené Brown, Tony Robbins, you, uh, you know, all these amazing celebrities I followed, whatever. And I thought, you know what, of all those people, there are loads of people who also share my admiration and, um, you know, love and, and, and, you know, and all of that. But equally, there are also people that don't. And then I thought, well, wait, that's true for everyone I know, whether famous or not famous. There are people that like them and people that just don't, they just don't get them. And for me, I suddenly realised, like, nobody on earth is universally liked, nobody.

• 41:29Roxie Nafousi?

  And that was so freeing, because I was like, oh, okay, well, I don't need to keep trying. I don't need to be in pursuit of this thing, which is that everybody will like me. I just want, and I hear that a lot from people, I just want everyone to like me.

• 41:45Jay Shetty?

  Really?

• 41:46Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, and I think it's something that I hear people say time and time again, it's like, the sooner you realise that that's never gonna happen, the better. And look, and so really, I think the best thing you can do is just be who you like, whilst respecting and being a kind, you know, human. Um, but but know that there's never gonna be an opportunity for you to be some, some, everybody's cup of tea, right?

• 42:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:08Roxie Nafousi?

  And then that kind of brings me to the fourth um, truth, which is, it's not personal. And the way I think of it is like this, everything in the universe is energy. And we are all energy too. And we have all met thousands of people in our lifetime. And aren't there just a few that you just clicked with instantly? Like, you couldn't say why, you just felt this instant bond, this connection. And probably most people listening will have someone in their life that they can say, I have no idea why we're friends, I have no idea why we're together. Uh, we just, we just click, but we're so different in every way. And for me, I'm like, yeah, it's energy. And just in the way that there are people that you absolutely just click with and you can't say why, there are people that you just don't.

• 42:53Roxie Nafousi?

  Energetically, you just don't vibe. And you might have a friend that has another friend and you meet them for the first time and you're like, what were they, what are they so sad to this person for, right? And when you see things as energy, you you are so much more able to stop taking it personally. It's not, if you don't get on with someone, it's not about you and it's not about them. You're just not the right match. And this is so helpful in all situations in our life, whether it's at work, because there will be some colleagues you get on with, some you don't, you just rub each other the wrong way. But it's also so good with dating. So for people who are dating, who, you know, when you go into dating, I mean, dating is so triggering anyway on our confidence and self-worth, but.

• 43:37Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, it's so, when we go into dates, we always go in with this mindset of, you know, I really hope they like me, right? And I always think you should actually be going in saying, I really hope I like them, right? But if it doesn't work out, if there isn't a second date, it's so easy for us to just go, what was wrong with me? And instead, I just want people to adopt this mentality of, it just wasn't an energetic fit. It's just not personal. And I think it's just so helpful for to adopt that mindset.

• 44:06Jay Shetty?

  What's, what's the difference between people pleasing and making people happy?

• 44:10Roxie Nafousi?

  Wanting to make people happy and to, to bring happiness into people's lives is full of, I think it comes from, it can come from a confident place, a, a place of, I have so much love that I want to share it with the people around me. So it comes from a place of worth. Whereas people pleasing actually comes from a place of low self-worth. People pleasing is, I have to please others because I'm not worthy of putting myself first. I have to please others because I need them to like me. I have to please others because

• 44:50Roxie Nafousi?

  I need to, I need to be enough. And so I think, yeah, I think making people happy can come, comes from a place of worth and people pleasing comes from a lack of self-worth.

• 45:02Jay Shetty?

  That's so good. That's such a great answer because I think sometimes we think, oh, I'm just not going to care what anyone thinks. And I always hear both, right? You hear one end of the spectrum, which is like, I wish everyone liked me. The other end is, well, I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm like, well, neither of those are real or true because you can't just not care. If everyone just didn't care what anyone thought, by the way, there'd be no need for art or music or philosophy or anything because we wouldn't care what anyone thought. So no one would listen to this podcast and no one would read a book ever. No one would watch a movie because we don't care what anyone thinks. And no one would ever do that for us. So we'd lose so much connection. So caring is important. But I, but I love what you said about how when it's really about making people happy, it's

• 45:47Jay Shetty?

  actually about them. And when it's about people pleasing, it's all about you. And it was never about them. You're doing that so that they think you're a nice person. Whereas when you're just trying to make someone happy, it's because you're nice. And that's who you are, or you're kind and that's who you are. And it says so much more about who you are and how you want to live. And When I think about this idea of being liked by everybody, there's also a part of us, Roxy, that doesn't want that friction. A lot of it's just conflict avoidance.

• 46:18Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 46:18Jay Shetty?

  Where we want people to like us, not because we so need them to like us, but because we just don't want to have friction with anyone.

• 46:25Roxie Nafousi?

  Right.

• 46:25Jay Shetty?

  And what you said, which I appreciate, is actually it's about energy. And there's so much, if you, if everyone liked you and you liked everyone, they would not be that special friend.

• 46:36Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 46:36Jay Shetty?

  They would not be that loving partner. There wouldn't be that memory that you have.

• 46:40Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Jay Shetty?

  With a sibling or someone, because if you liked everyone and everyone liked you.

• 46:44Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Jay Shetty?

  You wouldn't get that magic.

• 46:46Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, that's so true. I love that.

• 46:48Jay Shetty?

  You said it.

• 46:48Roxie Nafousi?

  Did I?

• 46:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it was your energy point. Well, what you said about energy made me think of it.

• 46:52Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Jay Shetty?

  Like, there are, you said, there were certain people you just click with.

• 46:55Roxie Nafousi?

  No, it's true.

• 46:56Jay Shetty?

  That's what makes that person so special. If everyone liked you and you liked everyone.

• 47:00Roxie Nafousi?

  No, that's so true.

• 47:00Jay Shetty?

  Then who's that person? They're just another person.

• 47:02Roxie Nafousi?

  That's such, I love the way you've just phrased it, like, because everything, you need, you need duality in life. Like, we need challenges and dark days, so we appreciate the good days. We were talking earlier about habituation, right, how we become desensitized to things. And if we just got on with everyone in our life, we would be desensitized to the feeling of getting on with people. So it's like, you need to have people that you maybe don't vibe the most with, exactly as you say, to really appreciate the ones you do.

• 47:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, to really experience the magic of connection and go, oh yeah, we have something special. Like, you would never say that.

• 47:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 47:40Jay Shetty?

  If everyone liked you and you liked everyone, you can never say, we have something special.

• 47:43Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes. It's like, okay, if you date, uh, someone.

• 47:51Roxie Nafousi?

  I was just thinking, an Aquarius specifically. But no, there are some people, okay, forget the date thing, but there are some people who are just friends with everyone. You know, and I know people like this, who are such social butterflies, but they don't have those one or two really special and deep connections. And I wonder if that's kind of part of the same thing.

• 48:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, because they get along with everyone.

• 48:15Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 48:15Jay Shetty?

  And you have a lot of shallow relationships.

• 48:17Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 48:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And it doesn't, it doesn't fuel you. It doesn't fuel you. Well, I was gonna ask you about that, though. For those of us who just don't want conflict, and who just don't want to get into it, someone like, oh, why can't we just have peace and like everyone? How do you deal with that rejection, that conflict, that feeling of that person doesn't like me? What do you do with that? Because of course, there is a feeling of I feel rejected, I feel outed, they didn't invite me. What do you do with that?

• 48:44Roxie Nafousi?

  I think it just comes down to acceptance, like that kind of idea of radical acceptance, right? Because I think that, yes, rejection is hard, right? And it's challenging and it tests the foundation of our confidence, right? Because it's really, you know, it's, it's a horrible thing to experience and everybody's gone through it. But I truly believe that you can learn to deal with rejection in a way that doesn't lead to this like great discomfort. And I think you can deal with somebody just not really liking you without it becoming something that you constantly overthink or ruminate on.

• 49:23Roxie Nafousi?

  And that just comes from this mindset of it doesn't make it about me. I can't really know what really is going on for them. And, and there's that, I can't remember what the quote is, you might remember about how our perceptions, what people think of us is not really to do with us, it's to do with them. It's their own experiences, their own wounds, their own, you know, all their past things. And, you know, perhaps you remind them of someone in their life that hurt them in the past. Like, there's just so many different factors to us, to it. Like I said earlier, that have nothing to do with us. And so it's just, it's acceptance, it's also not making it, things can, you cannot get on with someone

• 50:08Roxie Nafousi?

  and it not need to be an argument and it not need to be a big thing and it not need to mean anything. And I think sometimes we just try too hard to attach meaning to everything.

• 50:25Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Mazda, more of what matters to you.

• 51:10Jay Shetty?

  Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favourite podcast. Choose a cellar or North East Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve.

• 51:50Jay Shetty?

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• 52:37Jay Shetty?

  You reminded me of that principle from the Buddha that's the second arrow, which is the first arrow is the rejection or the conflict. That hurts, but the second arrow is the one you shoot at yourself.

• 52:49Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 52:50Jay Shetty?

  Because you're adding meaning to that first arrow.

• 52:52Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 52:53Jay Shetty?

  So you got rejected, but the, your takeaway of the second arrow is because I'm not good enough.

• 52:59Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 52:59Jay Shetty?

  When really the reason was they were projecting their past onto you, they were projecting a wound onto you. They were just busy, they were tired, they were exhausted, there's a million reasons. And like you said, you're never going to figure it out.

• 53:11Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 53:12Jay Shetty?

  And so you can play Sherlock Holmes and play investigator and try and figure out the detective version. But you still will never be satisfied with the answer. And so the Buddha says, don't fire that second arrow because the first arrow you weren't in charge of. But the second arrow you were, and that second arrow is just your story, your meaning, which you're just making up.

• 53:31Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Jay Shetty?

  And we've become the best fiction writers.

• 53:33Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 53:34Jay Shetty?

  When it's writing the nightmare version of why this happened.

• 53:37Roxie Nafousi?

  Totally. We're constantly filling in the blanks of stories that don't exist. I said recently on my, by the way, that was such a beautiful story. I mean, I illustrated it so well. But I was saying, I did a post on Instagram the other day, like, you know, when you're walking behind someone and your mind has created a picture of what they look like. And when they turn around, you're like, oh my God, they look so different to what I thought.

• 53:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:58Roxie Nafousi?

  But it's just a really clear reminder that our minds are just constantly creating these stories and these narratives and these images that aren't based on reality.

• 54:08Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 54:08Roxie Nafousi?

  They are based on so many other things that are not, that stop us from being truly objective.

• 54:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:15Roxie Nafousi?

  And so really understanding that you cannot trust your stories, your thoughts, you know, is, I think, really powerful.

• 54:22Jay Shetty?

  I've been asking you these questions and you've been nailing the answers. I'm asking you more of these.

• 54:25Roxie Nafousi?

  Honestly, you ask me such different questions. It's so great. You really push me to think about confidence differently. I really, yeah, it's really great. Thank you.

• 54:34Jay Shetty?

  No, but you've, you've done the work and it's why we can go everywhere. Like, it's exciting for me because. I want people to read the book and they're gonna find the the great eight steps in the book. And the advice is so, and you've got, you know, the affirmations, you've got journaling prompts. Like you, you're giving so many practical tips, but I think this conversation is like really trying to figure out like, what are we struggling with? And I wanted to ask you, what's the, how do we stop thinking that everything's our fault? And still take responsibility to make changes?

• 55:01Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 55:02Jay Shetty?

  Because I think where we get caught is we, when someone breaks up with you, you think, oh, it was all my fault. If I did this, they would have stayed. If I changed, they would still be here. Oh, if I planned that birthday, they'd still be in my life. And we make it all our fault.

• 55:15Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 55:15Jay Shetty?

  Which isn't the case, because it's always a two-way thing.

• 55:19Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 55:19Jay Shetty?

  But sometimes if we don't think anything's our fault, then we don't take responsibility. So how do you stop thinking everything's your fault, but still take responsibility?

• 55:28Roxie Nafousi?

  I think this comes down to like, there's so, I think there's so many things involved in this. I think one actually doesn't come from anything personal, but it's more about this trust, being able to have a full trust in divine timing and a full trust that your life is unfolding the way that it's supposed to. Because in that sense, when something like this happens, when someone breaks up with you, when you lose the job, when, whatever it is, actually, if you have a deep connection to a greater power, whatever that is, it might be God, for me, it's just the universe and the energy and power of the universe, might be a spiritual realm, whatever it is.

• 56:06Roxie Nafousi?

  When you have a deep connection to that, you are able to surrender to things with such greater ease and resilience. And step four of my manifest book is overcome tests from the universe. And that really is all about being able to persist through challenges. And, and it's done with a knowing that there is always reward on the other side. And so with that overall mindset, you are able, I think, to attach less meaning, like we spoke about before, to these things that happen to us. But I think that. Equally, when it comes to being able to, how do we take responsibility for the things

• 56:46Roxie Nafousi?

  that we need to, I think that comes from getting to know ourselves, it comes from self-awareness. I think it comes from a genuine desire to be the best version of ourselves that we can be. And I think that it comes from, you know, when I, when we talk about confidence and why confidence impacts every area of our lives, it's a kind of, I feel like confidence plays into everything. So actually, the more confident we are, the less that we're going to blame ourselves for things and the more willing we're going to be to be able to actually say, hey, you know, in a compassionate way, hey, you know what, let me see, what are the things that I could

• 57:30Roxie Nafousi?

  have changed here, what can I take responsibility for, and I'm going to let go of the things that I can't. How can I be better, but how can I also accept the situation as it is? And so I think there's this like fine balance between it. And I think that, God, I just, I'm so passionate about talking to people, whether it's about manifesting, but especially about confidence, because I just know how many people listening are having those thoughts that you've just mentioned, where they think, I just, if I had done things differently. And they live in that regret, in that shame, in that guilt. And I think those are such overpowering emotions that really infiltrate every part of our lives. Kind of, they're

• 58:12Roxie Nafousi?

  like silently there, just bringing us down. And, you know, it's, and like we said earlier, you know, it's exhausting. So, yeah.

• 58:22Jay Shetty?

  So you've laid out these eight steps really simply for people to follow. And as I was reading them, I was thinking, but that's not what we do to become more confident. So I think a lot of people think, when I become rich, I'll be confident. But what's interesting is you can be rich and insecure. People think, when I become famous, I'll be confident. But you can be famous and insecure. People think, when I become a successful entrepreneur, when I get this promotion, when I get married, when I get through this, then I'll be confident. But you can be all of those things and still insecure, because those things don't take away insecurity, these things do.

• 59:02Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah. I mean, spoiler alert, my eight steps is not get married, get rich, get famous.

• 59:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, but I think our brain makes us believe those are the things.

• 59:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes, absolutely. And I think, you know, I'm so glad you brought this up because, you know, the work in manifestation, right, I think is all about goals. It's about getting to a place. And I actually had to put a disclaimer on this because I realized that what people were doing is they were expecting that happiness, confidence, joy would be found at the end of this goal, right? So exactly as you say, I will be happy when I get this promotion, when I have this many followers, when I'm in a relationship. And what I started to really realize that I needed to share with people is that reaching those goals is never going to make you happy. And we know this because we know

• 59:57Roxie Nafousi?

  how many successful, famous people are deeply unhappy. And what I realized was, okay, how can I try and explain to people that, how can I, how can I get people to have a goal, to stay motivated? Because we need something to work towards for our mental health. We need to be moving forward. How can I get people to find this balance between moving towards something but not expecting happiness at the goal? And I realized that it all came down to an emotional attachment. People think I will be enough when, I will be valued when, I will be loved when. And that's why the work of confidence is so important, because actually what you realize is

• 1:00:40Roxie Nafousi?

  you need to feel loved now, you need to feel valued now, you need to feel worthy now, so that when you get the goal, when you get the thing, you can enjoy it.

• 1:00:52Jay Shetty?

  Well said.

• 1:00:53Roxie Nafousi?

  Because if you don't, you'll still be miserable.

• 1:00:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, it's so well said. Roxy, did you ever feel you did something that you think would make you confident, but then didn't make you feel confident in your own journey?

• 1:01:06Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes, yes, many, many times. So.

• 1:01:14Roxie Nafousi?

  I have been on a very real and profound journey of my own confidence. And I don't even know where to start with it, really. It's, I remember the first time I looked in the mirror when I was seven years old. And I remember it so distinctly and looking and just thinking, I am so ugly. Like really ugly, like monstrous.

• 1:01:51Roxie Nafousi?

  And throughout my childhood, I really held on to this belief that I was just hideous. And at this time, when you're a young child and you're um kind of learning your place in the world and forming the beliefs about, you know, who you are. What I was seeing was that I was rejected by my peers. I was, I felt very alone all the time. And the people that were popular and loved were people that were beautiful and the girls had blonde hair and blue eyes and not the girls that looked like me. And

• 1:02:34Roxie Nafousi?

  oh, I don't even know where to begin with this whole journey.

• 1:02:38Roxie Nafousi?

  I never felt worthy and I never felt enough. And I think my self-loathing was so, so extreme. And I learned to cope with the extremity of my inner critic and my feelings of low self-worth with coping mechanisms like controlling my eating, which then turned to alcohol, which then became drugs. And I was an addict and went to my first N A Narcotics Anonymous meeting when I was twenty one. I continued through my addiction until I was twenty eight and but a big part of what I was so addicted to was this false feeling of confidence, something I had never had.

• 1:03:20Roxie Nafousi?

  Um, but obviously when I'd come down from that, the self loathing would come to the surface again and and I and I and I always felt sort of quite disgusted by myself. Um, but I would say it was like a bubbling thing because I had the drugs to constantly offset it. But when I fell pregnant, um, when I was twenty eight, I had to stop all the drugs, um, very suddenly. And so I was dealing kind of all the pain that I was running from. And what really came to light in this time, and I didn't know what it was then, but I do know now, was a very, very severe body dysmorphia disorder.

• 1:04:03Roxie Nafousi?

  So at this time, um, I had, through my pregnancy, I gained sort of five stone, I was binge eating. But from almost within like a week of finding out I was pregnant and giving everything up, I became very, very fixated on how disgusting my face was. And

• 1:04:26Roxie Nafousi?

  it's really hard to describe how loud and how revolted I felt by myself. It's it's a revulsion. Imagine something that you see. Maybe you're squeamish when it comes to surgery and you see something come up on Instagram and you just get that feeling of disgust. That was how I felt when I looked in the mirror.

• 1:04:46Roxie Nafousi?

  And I eventually got to a point where I stopped leaving the house. I wouldn't see anybody because I thought I was too grotesque to be looked at. Yes, while I was pregnant. And and this was like a really dark time of my life anyway. And then after I was pregnant, let's fast forward. The the self loathing is just there. It it's a constant thing, this this lack of self worth. And then we come into Covid and suddenly you're interacting with people on camera a lot. And this kind of, my B D D, which I didn't know what it was at the time, became uncontrollable. As in every, I'm at this point.

• 1:05:30Roxie Nafousi?

  Working through my career. So I had started doing workshops and then at the beginning of COVID, I started doing webinars.

• 1:05:39Roxie Nafousi?

  For two years, I did webinars every month and I did them all with my camera off. So. I don't know if anybody ever knew that that was why. I think I used to say that it was because um. Like I thought it would be a better experience for lis- to to listen, which in part is true. I feel like when you're listening to a podcast, you concentrate. But really, it was because I thought that if I had my camera on, people would be too revolted by my face and that they would it would disgust them the way that it disgusted me.

• 1:06:12Roxie Nafousi?

  And I never would never ever show my face online unless I had a filter on it um. And I thought this was normal. I thought I was just really self-conscious and that I just didn't have good self-esteem. Um, and I thought it's just because I need to change my face. I just need to do something. And if I just looked different, then I wouldn't feel this way. It was it was felt kind of almost simple to me. It's like, yeah, I hate myself, but this is why.

• 1:06:44Roxie Nafousi?

  And so in twenty twenty one.

• 1:06:49Roxie Nafousi?

  I had had chronic sinusitis for years because of the drug use and I had to have an operation on my sinuses. And I was like, great, this is my opportunity. And actually, I'd never considered having a rhinoplasty before before, but as soon as I knew I had to have an operation in my nose, I was like. Yes, I can change the shape of my nose and then finally I won't have this like voice in my head.

• 1:07:13Roxie Nafousi?

  So I had a rhinoplasty thinking this is going to be the thing um that changes me. And I think a lot of people will relate to this or who have had surgery, thinking it's gonna change the way you feel about yourself. And after the surgery, I realized. I felt exactly the same and if not worse. And at this time, I start going into this work, this line of work. I start. Showing up because I want to spread my message. And I start having to be in front of cameras and it was um.

• 1:07:51Roxie Nafousi?

  It's, I don't even, I'm so sorry, because you know, I've never spoken about this properly. And it's like, really hard to explain. I was convinced, even after I'd had the rhinoplasty. I was so convinced that I was just too disgusting to be looked at. And that everybody that would meet me would just be thinking about how ugly I was. So then, twenty twenty two, Manifest, my first book, comes out. And I'm obviously so passionate. This is my purpose. My purpose is to use all the pain that I've been through in my life to try and, you know, inspire others and hopefully help other people. And so I have this real desire to help and share my message and to talk about it.

• 1:08:34Roxie Nafousi?

  And that means going on, you know, get, if I take, get the opportunity to go on TV, go on podcasts. But for, and I was so determined that I was not going to let this horrible monster in my mind stop me from, you know, doing the things that I wanted to do to fulfill my purpose. But it was excruciating. So every single time I would go on camera of any sort, I would have a panic attack before. Then I'd be fine during, and then I'd have a panic attack after. I mean, the first time I sat in this chair, just before coming, I had a full-blown panic attack. I, it was just, and it all came from this.

• 1:09:15Roxie Nafousi?

  And, and I feel so much, the reason I've never spoken about this is because there is so much shame around what I'm about to talk about, I think, for loads of people who have experienced it. But I had this real obsession of thinking that I was just too disgusting to be seen. And it just came out all the time. And my team around me could see how real this was. It wasn't just a, oh, I'm feeling, oh, I don't look so good today. And then you just kind of get on with your day. It was more than that. It was this. All consuming, ruminating thought of disgust, revulsion, ugly, horrible, nobody should

• 1:09:53Roxie Nafousi?

  look at me. And eventually, somebody said to me, I think you have BDD, body dysmorphia disorder. Now, I didn't know what it was, and I thought that if I did, surely that must be about your body. Well, it doesn't. Body dysmorphia disorder and BDD can be about your face, it can be about your body. And what it is, is a form of OCD. It's a form, it's an anxiety disorder, which is a form of OCD. So it's like an obsessive compulsion thinking that is kind of, um, comes with a checking behavior or, or some behavior of sorts. So for some people, it might be mirror shaking, might be comparing photos, it might be asking for reassurance. Um, and it is no different to somebody having an obsessive thought about, you know, have they turned the light switches off or something bad's

• 1:10:37Roxie Nafousi?

  gonna happen if I don't do the switches three times. So it's the same pattern of behavior in your mind, but it's to do with the way that you look. So becoming obsessed with a perceived flaw and thinking that it's really noticeable to other people. And it's so incredibly damaging to one's way of life. And something that's really hard with BDD is nobody wants to talk about it because it seems vain. And I have been so afraid to talk about it. And even now, I'm thinking like, should I be talking about this? Because there is, it, it feels like it's just about vanity. And I, and I see why it seems like that, but

• 1:11:21Roxie Nafousi?

  it's so much more. It is this deep belief that you are so unworthy and unlovable because of your appearance. And a lot of people that have BDD will do everything on the outside to fix it, in the way that I did, you know, have a rhinoplasty, have botox, have filler, whatever it is. But when you realize that you're left with the same thought patterns, you realize that it's not about what's on the outside. It's, you can try and change something, but unless you do the work within, nothing is gonna help you. And realising that I had an anxiety disorder was very helpful for me. Um, I realised that it wasn't that I was just.

• 1:12:02Roxie Nafousi?

  I realised then that there was something I could do. I could find methods to help, whether that was CBT and actually. And I've never shared this and didn't think I ever would, but. Um, I actually went on medication, on anti-anxiety medication. Um, it's medication that's used often for lots of different things, depression, OCD, and severe anxiety. Um, but because I paired that with all this work. It was absolutely life-changing for me. And the way I can describe the last, the, the, the two years when I'd kind of like started being on camera to.

• 1:12:45Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, getting to a point where I finally felt more comfortable, I could manage it better. Is like every time I, it's like asking somebody with an eating disorder, sit down and eat this cake. That is the only way I can describe it to somebody is it's, it's such an overwhelming experience. Um, and it, you know, it influences every, every your life, your friendships, your socialising, your dating life, everything. Um, and now I've found so, and I only, the only reason I'm sharing this really, why am I sharing this now? Firstly, I think probably just because it, it's still a part of my life. And so I think that, like I had a really, I still get a lot of flare ups when I'm tired.

• 1:13:28Roxie Nafousi?

  When I'm stressed, it will come up. So yesterday, for example. Um, I was doing all these amazing things here in L A. But in my head, I was like, but I'm, I just completely reverted back to my old thought, thought patterns. I'm revolting, I'm disgusting. And it's weird because I'd never have these thoughts about anyone else. I don't care about how anyone looks. I've never thought. If only they looked better. Oh God, I feel really nervous about talking about this. I just don't know if it sounds, oh, it's really hard.

• 1:13:55Jay Shetty?

  It is hard, it is hard. Can I, can I jump in?

• 1:13:58Roxie Nafousi?

  Please.

• 1:13:59Jay Shetty?

  When anyone shares something that they've been struggling with, to me, it shows one of the greatest. Expressions of confidence.

• 1:14:06Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:07Jay Shetty?

  Because it's so hard to talk about it, because you know that.

• 1:14:13Jay Shetty?

  People are gonna have their opinions.

• 1:14:15Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Jay Shetty?

  You have your own judgments of it. You're still naturally dealing with it as we all are. So I firstly just wanna thank you for being so confident in actually sharing it because I don't think you could do that if you weren't working on your inner self.

• 1:14:29Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Jay Shetty?

  Because that's the hardest part really is admitting out loud to yourself that this is what I'm going through and this is where I'm at. So just thank you for your vulnerability and confidence.

• 1:14:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Thank you. I really appreciate that.

• 1:14:41Jay Shetty?

  Because that's the hardest thing. I remember coaching a leader and they'd been going through a lot of anxiety. This is a CEO of a company with half a million employees. And they were going through so much anxiety and stress in their personal life. And everything was falling apart. At the same time, this company's doing exceptionally well. And while they were going through it, at one point when they were better versed in being able to explain it, like I think you explained BDD so well as to someone who doesn't know much about it. I said, I encouraged them. I said, maybe you should tell your team, your exec team, your leaders, so that they're aware. And they said to me, they said, how can I tell them? I said, what do you mean? They said, well, if I tell them, they're gonna think I'm weak.

• 1:15:25Jay Shetty?

  And I said, no, I think when you tell them, they're gonna realize you're strong because they're all dealing with similar things. And they're scared of telling you because they don't think you know what they're going through. And so I think there are gonna be so many people listening right now who go, Roxy, thank you for saying that because I just assumed you have it perfect and your life's perfect. And you're so confident. And actually, you're showing me that what you said earlier, that you can be a masterpiece and a work in progress all at the same time, is actually what we're all dealing with. And as soon as we believe someone is fully confident, that doesn't fully help us because then we're always measuring ourselves, thinking, why am I not there? And when we realize, oh, everyone's healing. There's no one who's healed. Then as long as I'm healing, I'm on the right path.

• 1:16:09Jay Shetty?

  So I just think, hopefully, I think people will listen and feel that way. The second thing I'll say is, to me, there's

• 1:16:18Jay Shetty?

  I think we know very little about the human mind and brain, especially when it comes to a lot of these anxiety disorders. I have friends, my wife has friends who have severe cases of OCD. And it's so easy when you hear about the problem to just be like, how does that make any sense? It doesn't make any sense. Just do it anyway. And we can kind of throw these Band-Aid answers on to severe issues that we actually don't understand. And the more I've done the work I've been doing in coaching and my friends who are therapists that I learn from. And when we're working on clients together and I'm learning about what clients are going through, the more compassion and empathy I've gained for things that I don't understand. Because it's so easy to be like, well, my brain doesn't work that way.

• 1:17:02Jay Shetty?

  And I can't compute it and comprehend it. So that just sounds really ridiculous. But the reality is that when you go through something yourself, you then go, oh crap. Like I remember me and my friends didn't believe, when you were in your teens, you didn't believe depression was real.

• 1:17:15Roxie Nafousi?

  I was just gonna say that. I always think the same thing.

• 1:17:17Jay Shetty?

  When we were young, like you didn't believe depression was real. And then you go through, I've been through depressive episodes in my life. You go through it and you go, God, I didn't even think my brain could go there. And anyone who has a friend who's gone through depression, who's potentially even had suicidal thoughts, like anyone who's had, anyone in their life has gone that. You've seen how quickly someone that you thought was happy, confident and well, became all of the opposite things. And so I, regardless of whether we immediately understand what you're saying, I just hope we use it as an opportunity to expand our compassion and empathy for each other. Because I think we know so little about the human mind and human brain. And all of these things. And, oh, sorry, Gun, you gonna say something?

• 1:18:00Roxie Nafousi?

  No, yeah, I mean, the mind is just an extremely powerful place. And I think that it's true, I mean, that often I say that for somebody, if you find a couple and one person has depression and one has never experienced it. And it's, come on, it can be very hard for that person to understand. They'll just snap out of it. And what I do hope that happens in sharing this is firstly, I think BDD is undiagnosed. So I hope that perhaps there are people listening that actually do have BDD but didn't know, will feel so much relief to understand that it's not just them. Being super vain or this or that.

• 1:18:43Roxie Nafousi?

  If it is impacting your life to a way that is

• 1:18:48Roxie Nafousi?

  like truly negatively impacting your life, then there is help to be found through different therapies. Um, you know, medication is out there, you know, there are things that can help. But I also think, yeah, I mean, the reason that I am so in love with this book is because I am somebody who literally has lived with this. What is I now recognize as an anxiety disorder that is rooted in me telling myself how awful I am. And I have had that in a voice since I was seven, telling me I am disgusting, I am unlovable, I am not enough.

• 1:19:28Roxie Nafousi?

  Whether that I thought that because of the way I look or whatever, at the root of it was I am not enough as I am. That is what I have believed my whole life. I am now sat in this chair and I truly believe I am enough. Like, I actually do love who I am. And it's not that I don't feel it, like I told you, yesterday was a tough day for me, but I knew how to manage it. I knew how to overcome it. But ninety percent of the time, I feel amazing, not in the way I look. I just feel amazing as a human. Like, I feel proud of who I am and what I can offer the world. So if I can go through that level of extreme self hate

• 1:20:11Roxie Nafousi?

  and get to a point where I actually can sit on a podcast and say, I like who I am. Truly, I think anyone can. And these are the steps that helped me get there. And I love them so much and I just so, I just can't wait for people to feel this level of freedom. Because it really is quite an extraordinary experience. And knowing how hard it can be on the other side. Oh, my God, it's just such a relief to like not hate yourself all the time.

• 1:20:49Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colours, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision-making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life.

• 1:21:33Jay Shetty?

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• 1:21:58Jay Shetty?

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• 1:23:11Jay Shetty?

  I think it's also really from what I see from what you're saying is because it's been a journey while you're writing, while you're speaking, is that you can have these thoughts, you can mask them, work on them and still do things. And I think a lot of us feel like, until I figure everything out, I can't do anything. And what I think you're saying and showing is, no, I've been feeling all of this. Here are the management methods that I've come up with and the steps that I actually am going to deal with it. And then I can still do these things. And partly what you're saying, though, Roxie, I think is, is part of you being a public figure too, because, and this applies to everyone now. It's not just a public figure, it truly applies to everyone. All of us see our reflection too much.

• 1:23:51Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes, we really do.

• 1:23:53Jay Shetty?

  We just, we all look at our faces more times every day than we ever would have in the past. When you grew up in that tribe or that village, when would you ever see your reflection? You're looking at straw huts and, you know, wooden like spoons, you know, just whatever. Like, you're never seeing your reflection. And now you're on a Zoom call, and you're staring at your reflection. You're on a FaceTime call, and you're looking at your own reflection. You go past a shop window, you look at your reflection. We're on our phones all day. It's, we're so overexposed that I think all of us, if we're honest with ourselves, overanalyze ourselves physically and our face, because we see our face more than ever. I just don't think we were ever meant to see our face this much.

• 1:24:38Roxie Nafousi?

  So true.

• 1:24:39Jay Shetty?

  So for someone who has an anxiety disorder that's connected to that, I can only imagine how that's amplified, because it's amplified even for people who don't have that anxiety disorder. And I'm overexposed to my face. And so I think it's also just, we're just looking at our faces more than we ever meant to. And that's hard.

• 1:24:59Roxie Nafousi?

  It's so true.

• 1:25:00Jay Shetty?

  And I think everyone can relate to that, whether they have an anxiety disorder or not, whether they struggle with something else or not. I think everyone knows that we're all looking at our face all day.

• 1:25:07Roxie Nafousi?

  It's so true. I never considered that. We do look at it way too much. Wade, my co-parent, he's just got a house, and he's got no mirrors in it. And he's like, I've never felt better.

• 1:25:19Roxie Nafousi?

  And he doesn't use this phrase that much either. And he's like, it's amazing.

• 1:25:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. In, in, in the monastery in India, they didn't have any mirrors. And that was the first time I had experienced what that felt like. And forgetting how you look physically, which I don't anymore. I'm always on camera, Instagram and my videos. So I, I don't know what that feels like anymore as well. But I remember at that time, forgetting how I looked, allowed me to go inward in a way that I can never imagine doing because I forgot my physical self. And then you can deal with your mental and emotional self. But if you're always overexposed to your physical self, you actually don't think of yourself as anything more. So when you're saying, I'm amazing as a human, that's going beyond your physical self.

• 1:26:04Jay Shetty?

  But because we deal with everyone just by our physical selves, we think this is all we are.

• 1:26:10Roxie Nafousi?

  Exactly. There's a great, uh, you know, I used to say to people a lot and, and it's something I, I would tell myself in, in all the times I would go on, you know, to do an interview and really just be thinking, oh my God, I'm the, the person interviewing me is just thinking about how disgusting I am. Or everyone online is going to just be talking about how ugly I am. And those were thoughts. And then I, I would come out to one thing. People do not care how you look. They care how you make them feel. And that was what kept me showing up. And I still remind myself of it all the time. And I think that, and it's true, like, I think about, and I would always think about all the people I love, admire, enjoy being around, enjoy hearing, watching.

• 1:26:54Roxie Nafousi?

  None of them are because, oh, they look a certain way. All of it is because they make me feel a certain way. They make me feel inspired. They make me feel empowered. They make me feel. But this is the thing with anxiety disorders. It makes no sense, right? So I can rationally think that. It doesn't mean the thoughts don't come sometimes anyway. But I think this ability, when you can rationalize it and remind yourself of these things, it can be so powerful.

• 1:27:19Jay Shetty?

  For us to gain a bit more understanding of it, so what happens when someone says, well, Roxy, you look amazing, like, I think you look great, like, when someone says that, what does the disorder do internally, like, how do you feel when you receive that, so on a day that you're not feeling your best physically, and your face, as we talked about, it's not your body, it's your face, and someone's like, oh, but you look great, like, what's your thought process, what happens?

• 1:27:41Roxie Nafousi?

  Well, nothing, because like we said earlier, when you don't think about about yourself, it's, it's for me, if I'm having, like now, if I'm having a bad, before it was just every day, it was just constant, for now, let's say I'm having a bad BDD day today, yesterday, right, that was a bad day, it's a physical anxiety, so you just feel off, and then you just have ruminating thoughts, and so you might, it's just a ruminating inner critic, and it's just a feeling of anxiousness, it's really like physical in the body, um, and it just, it's annoying, I'm just like, oh, not again, not today, because you want to enjoy the things, but I, like I said, I noticed when it happens, when I'm stressed, when I'm on hormonal, when I'm tired, but I also know now

• 1:28:24Roxie Nafousi?

  that it will pass, I woke up this morning and I was free from it, and I was like, okay, we're back, we're fine, you know, it was just, I was also jet lagged yesterday, so I was probably that as well, um, so you know, it's something that's, that you can, you can learn to manage, um, I also think, I'll just say one more thing on it, that I think it's important, is that there are more and more people having surgery now, and I think that a lot of it will be coming from undiagnosed BDD, and so I just think, if people can just, if they are thinking about surgery, and there's so much we're seeing on social media, you know, just really ask yourself, like, is this, is there something bigger, more healing that needs to be done, I am all for people doing whatever they want to do, I mean, I don't regret my rhinoplasty, I, I

• 1:29:09Roxie Nafousi?

  do do Botox, I do do things like that, I like to feel good, um, but is it coming from, uh, is it coming from a place, or can, can you make sure that the healing is, is really happening alongside it?

• 1:29:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a great note, and that applies to pretty much everything in life, it's like. No one's saying you don't wanna go and become successful and don't wanna have big dreams. It's just making sure you're doing the inner healing at the same time. So that like you said, when you get there, you can actually experience it and feel it. And to be honest, one of the biggest things that all of this reminds me of because of so many of anxiety disorders today and the challenges we have is that there's this beautiful line from C.S. Lewis that I love. And he said that you don't have a soul, you are the soul and you have a body. And I love that because I think we live in such a physical world where the body is all we are. And the more spiritual work I've done and leaned into over the last two decades,

• 1:30:08Jay Shetty?

  the more I've realized that the more I think I'm the body, the less enough I feel.

• 1:30:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:12Jay Shetty?

  But the more I believe that I'm spirit and consciousness and soul and energy, the more abundant I feel. Because that's what the spirit is. The body is limited.

• 1:30:21Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 1:30:21Jay Shetty?

  The body will wither, the body will die, the body will destruct and the body will get ill. That's what is, that's why the body doesn't feel enough.

• 1:30:30Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:31Jay Shetty?

  Because it isn't, it doesn't have the longevity that the soul does. But there's a part of us, inside of us, that believes we are eternal and blissful and full of knowledge and have the ability to outlast. It's the reason why we wanna live forever. And we're trying to stretch the body to live forever.

• 1:30:48Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Jay Shetty?

  But the body doesn't really have that ability. Maybe we'll get to 150 years, but it doesn't have eternality attached to it. It's just not meant to be. So to me, it's always been like, again, I'm not saying I work out, I take supplements, I take care of my health, I do all the things. I'm not saying to ignore your body. I'm saying that there is a part of you that has been left alone for too long.

• 1:31:09Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Jay Shetty?

  And reconnecting with that through these eight steps.

• 1:31:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:13Jay Shetty?

  It engages you back into it. And one of my favorite ones that I wanted to talk about was step five, celebrate yourself. And I wanted to kind of get to this one because to me, I think the biggest difficulty, like you, when you were saying, when you ask audiences, like, hey, do you, is anyone here free of self doubt? And no one puts up their hand. I often ask when I'm in an audience, when was the last time you noticed and celebrated something good you did? And no one will put their hand up.

• 1:31:40Roxie Nafousi?

  Interesting.

• 1:31:41Jay Shetty?

  Because we have such a discomfort. Think about people dealing with compliments. If someone compliments you, like, most of us don't know what to do with it.

• 1:31:48Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:48Jay Shetty?

  And we shrink and we just go away and we kind of hide. Obviously, there's some narcissists who love being complimented, you know, like,

• 1:31:54Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:54Jay Shetty?

  Kind of like the opposite, where it's like their ego gets full. But I think most of us just go, oh, thanks, like, yeah, cool, like, oh, really? Like, do you feel that way? Like, we we almost question it. Talk to me about why celebrating yourself is so important.

• 1:32:07Roxie Nafousi?

  Learning to celebrate who we are and all that we have to offer is such an important step of this confidence journey. And I think that to be able to do it, we first need to understand why so many of us struggle with it. One of the reasons is that we've really glorified humility. So humility has become this thing that is a very desirable trait that across cultures, being humble is something that we that we really regard highly. But most of us have just taken it way too far. So we've become self-deprecating. We don't want to accept compliments. We don't want to accept that perhaps it was our hard work that led to this result. In fact, we'll kind of bat it off as a team effort or say that it was just luck.

• 1:32:52Roxie Nafousi?

  And I know that, you know, for me, definitely, and I know lots of people listening, will have grown up with the evil eye in their culture. And the evil eye really kind of like hammered in this point. So the evil eye really, for me, my mum would always say that, you know, don't appear too happy, too successful, too good. Be humble always, because if you're not humble, you will attract negativity, you will attract jealousy, and bad things will happen to you. And it would be to the point where, like, you know, when I got a new house, she'd put like a dirty shoe in the hallway. Or she'd say to me, you know, when I had my son wolf, she'd say, don't let anyone look at him, you know, don't let anyone look at his face.

• 1:33:31Roxie Nafousi?

  Like, it was a genuine, like, fear of anything good, you know, of and not having this negative impact on your life. And so, subconsciously, I think we come, we we start forming these kind of like beliefs that like, oh, God, like, if I'm seen. Happy, if I seem successful, if I celebrate myself in any way, something bad's gonna happen or people are gonna be jealous or people just aren't gonna like me. And so we start to really like stop celebrating ourselves because of that. But another big reason is because um we have confused confidence with arrogance. And they are not the same thing.

• 1:34:10Jay Shetty?

  Tell me the difference between confidence and arrogance.

• 1:34:12Roxie Nafousi?

  So arrogant says I am the best and confidence says I'm working to be the best that I can be. And I think that we all know what it's like to be around somebody who is truly arrogant. You know, they can be demeaning, they undermine you, they make you feel small, it's not nice. And so of course you can understand why we don't want to come across that way. But what people don't understand is that you can be confident in who you are without being arrogant. And in fact, if you're worried about being arrogant, you're not, because arrogant people aren't that self-aware. And I think that we have like a collective responsibility

• 1:34:57Roxie Nafousi?

  to encourage each other to step into our most confident selves. And we can do that by giving each other permission to celebrate ourselves. You know, I think that culturally, we, there is nothing more triggering to people than confidence. A confident person can really rub someone up the wrong way.

• 1:35:17Jay Shetty?

  For sure.

• 1:35:17Roxie Nafousi?

  And we start saying they're so up themselves. They think, who do they think they are? We, we talk about each other in this way. And so imagine you're hearing this in conversation, then you're thinking, God, I don't want people saying that about me. So I better not seem too confident, I might better not accept praise. I better not celebrate or say this good thing that happened to me.

• 1:35:35Jay Shetty?

  So interesting.

• 1:35:36Roxie Nafousi?

  I think, you know, we're giving, we're doing a disservice to each other. And so I really want to encourage people to celebrate themselves, to be able to accept praise, to be able to say thank you on someone compliments you, to be able to like say online if, you know, something good happened to your business or you got the promotion or tell your friends. And let's celebrate each other with that and be like, yes, because I personally feel so empowered when I see a confident person. I love being around confident people because I feel like it gives me permission to be that way too. And so I think. You know, it's something that is is both a solo thing that we need to do ourselves, but also something that collectively we can help each other with.

• 1:36:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's almost giving each other permission. Like, I think we all know the friend that you call when you're having a bad day.

• 1:36:23Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 1:36:24Jay Shetty?

  But who's the friend that you can call when you're having a great day?

• 1:36:27Roxie Nafousi?

  Very different.

• 1:36:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, very different. And talk about your biggest win.

• 1:36:31Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 1:36:31Jay Shetty?

  And a lot of us feel uncomfortable saying to someone, hey, I think I'm gonna go chase this new business I wanna start because we're scared our friend's gonna say, why are you doing that? Like, what's wrong with you? Like, just be happy with what you have. Or your friend says to you like, oh, you know what? Like, I just got promoted at work. I wanna throw a party and whatever. And then you're scared to say that because you're scared that someone else is gonna feel

• 1:36:52Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:52Jay Shetty?

  that they're inferior, their life's not good. And there is, there is that in friendship. Like, in friendship, you do care. You don't wanna make people feel inferior. You don't wanna make people feel upset. And at the same time, you've got to hold space for your celebration. And I think if people could acknowledge every day, something they got right, that would help with that heckler and that inner critic inside because you're already doing the opposite anyway.

• 1:37:18Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 1:37:18Jay Shetty?

  You're already coming up with a long list of everything you got wrong. I know when your head hits the pillow every night, you're thinking, I should have done that at work, should have done that with my kid, and I shouldn't have said that to my partner. So you've already got a list of things you're not doing. So you already are self-aware, and that's good because you won't be arrogant.

• 1:37:32Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:33Jay Shetty?

  But there's a need to be like, you know what? I nailed that presentation at work today. You know what? I actually was great in that meeting today. You know, I was really happy how I held my own.

• 1:37:42Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:42Jay Shetty?

  In that difficult conversation with my friend, partner, whatever, like, what would you consider people, what can people do practically every day or week or month?

• 1:37:51Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:51Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about celebrating yourself as a habit.

• 1:37:54Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 1:37:54Jay Shetty?

  Because I think we also wait for like, the promotion, the wedding, and.

• 1:37:58Roxie Nafousi?

  Okay, so there's two things that I really love that are in this step. So one of them is just about celebrating the small wins. So like you said, it's like really noticing what are the small things that you did today that you can be proud of yourself for? When you're struggling to think, one of the things that I think people can always count on finding somewhere, where in your day did you react better than you would have five years ago?

• 1:38:21Jay Shetty?

  That's a great question.

• 1:38:22Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, and I think sometimes I just think that is such a win. Like, do you know what? Like, a year ago, that would have really stressed me out. I can sit here now and say, two years ago, I would have felt so nervous. And my win today is that I'm here and I'm enjoying it, rather than being nervous. So that might be your win, your small win. Another thing that I love is celebrating your everyday qualities. So often, we, when we think about, what can we celebrate about ourselves? We think about the things that we would put on a C V. But I want you to not think about those things. I want you to think about what are the things that make you so unique to you and the close people around you? So is it that you're able to make light of situations on a hard day?

• 1:39:04Roxie Nafousi?

  Is it that you are always the one that's arranging, you know, everyone's meetup? Is it that you're the one that gets everyone out the house on time? Is it that you're the one that always has a handbag filled with things so that when someone needs it, it's there? Are you the one that always brings the snacks? Are you the one that, you know, always gives really good advice to a friend and offers them a new perspective? What are your everyday qualities? And really, I want you to literally write down a list of them. And think of it like your own personal C V. And recognize that all these amazing little things, these nuances, these quirks, these,

• 1:39:43Roxie Nafousi?

  all these things that you have to offer are what make you this multifaceted, magnificent, unique, wonderful human.

• 1:39:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I love that as a practice. It's, it's so needed. I, I feel like if we all noticed,

• 1:39:57Jay Shetty?

  if we all spent time noticing more good within ourselves, we'd notice more good within other people.

• 1:40:02Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 1:40:03Jay Shetty?

  And we'd see more good happen in our work, life, family, home, because we're just training ourselves to see the good. The challenge is when we've trained ourselves to only see the bad, we see the bad in ourselves, we see the bad in everyone else. Someone the other day said this quote to me that I loved. And they said, catch people doing things right.

• 1:40:22Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 1:40:23Jay Shetty?

  Catch people doing things right, because we always feel like, oh, I got you. I saw you stealing. I saw you lying. I saw you. But we don't catch people doing things right. And he said, when you catch people doing things right, they'll do them again.

• 1:40:35Roxie Nafousi?

  I love this.

• 1:40:36Jay Shetty?

  They'll do them more. And so we've got to learn to catch people doing things right. Because they are, there's, we're doing things right all the time.

• 1:40:42Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:43Jay Shetty?

  Our friends are doing things right. Our partners are doing things right. Our kids are doing things right. But we never catch them doing something right. We only catch people doing things wrong.

• 1:40:49Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah. You know, it's really funny because there's a, I can't remember the phenomenon that it is. But I write about it in the book, which is basically that our brains assume that other people think the way that we do.

• 1:41:01Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:41:01Roxie Nafousi?

  And so one thing that I encourage people to do is really watch when you're judging other people. And try to really like change that judgment to compassion. Because if we do it less about other people, we will assume people are doing it less about us. And then we'll give ourselves more freedom to be who we want to be.

• 1:41:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so well said. Everyone, the book is called Confidence, Eight Steps to Knowing Your Worth. We only touched on a couple of steps today, but I want you to read the book. Master your thoughts, act with intention, stop trying to be liked by everybody, break free from comparison. Celebrate yourself, do hard things, be of service to others, show up as your best self. Roxy, as I've got to know you over the years and just, I remember when I got that DM from you in 2022. And we connected and you came on to write Manifest, which I know has helped so many, you know, millions of people around the world. And then to see you write confidence, but even just the way you showed up today in your vulnerability and in your confidence.

• 1:41:58Jay Shetty?

  Uh, to me, that's a sign that you're someone who's doing the work and doing the hardest of it. And a reminder to everyone who's listening and watching that, you know, you're all on your own journey. And the judgment that we are scared of facing from everyone else is.

• 1:42:20Jay Shetty?

  Really, really tough. And because of that, we don't often express who we truly are.

• 1:42:25Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 1:42:25Jay Shetty?

  And who we truly are is this paradoxical, multifaceted, multi-layered person. And when we allow people to be all of themselves and all of their experiences, we allow ourselves to be all of ourselves and all of our experiences, rather than thinking we just have to be one thing.

• 1:42:42Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm.

• 1:42:42Jay Shetty?

  And to me, I'm happy that you've shown us the real view of what confidence looks like, which is it's hard, it's messy, it's complicated, it's layered. And at the same time, it's something that we can all have while we experience all those emotions. So.

• 1:42:59Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, Roxy. Thank you so much. And.

• 1:43:01Roxie Nafousi?

  Thank you.

• 1:43:02Jay Shetty?

  Really excited for people to read the book and connect with you. If you don't already follow Roxy on social media, please follow her. But, Roxy, anything I didn't ask you that you really want to talk about, anything that's on your heart or a message that.

• 1:43:13Roxie Nafousi?

  No, honestly, I'm just firstly so grateful to you always for just being so kind and genuine and and giving me this space to talk about it and asking me such different questions. And, you know, I think it's, uh, you've pushed me to practice what I preach in that, you know, I was afraid to talk about the B D D stuff in case I was judged, misunderstood, not liked. And really, what I tell people is, you know, you've got to do what, be authentically you. And you've kind of pushed me

• 1:43:48Roxie Nafousi?

  out of my comfort zone today in a good way. Not you didn't, I mean, you didn't force me to do it, but you've given me the space to do it. And I'm really grateful for that. And I just hope that anyone, for anyone listening, I absolutely know that everybody listening, when they were born into this world, they were born full of self-worth, full of confidence. But somewhere along the way, they learnt one thing, that they were not enough as they were. And I am on a mission to.

• 1:44:21Roxie Nafousi?

  Undo that damage so that they can come back to that knowing. And the last line of my book is this, true confidence is knowing that your worth was never up for discussion. And I really hope that every single one of you listening, watching, comes to that realization so that you can truly unlock your fullest potential. Life is really good on the other side.

• 1:44:48Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, Roxanne.

• 1:44:49Roxie Nafousi?

  Thank you.

• 1:44:50Jay Shetty?

  If you loved this episode, you will enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain.

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• 1:45:22Jay Shetty?

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