Naveen Jain ON: How To Break Down Your Biggest Problems & Solve Them Without Mental Suffering

Naveen Jain, the entrepreneur and philanthropist has committed his life to solving some of the world’s biggest problems, and he shares how with Jay Shetty in this episode of On Purpose. No matter the issue, Jain does his best to solve the roots of problems and not just tackle the symptoms, bringing tangible hope to uncertain times. Need a voice of reassurance and a fresh perspective? Listen to Jain share his vision for the future in today’s episode. Text Jay Shetty 310-997-4177 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. And if you've been thinking about a wardrobe refresh, this can make it feel a little more worthwhile. You're not just letting go of clothes, you're getting more value from what you already have.

• 0:43Jay Shetty?

  Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop.

• 1:26Jay Shetty?

  AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements, and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 2:01Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised to yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet,

• 2:45Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  We all realise that if our tribe died, we could not survive alone. That means taking care of tribe was something we did for our own survival. And I really think it's very interesting is that today, we believe it doesn't matter how much we have, we're going to always want more and there's always going to be scarcity because people are greedy.

• 3:37Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, today's guest is a truly fascinating individual. He's an entrepreneur, a serial philanthropist, and he's also the founder of some of the most innovative companies, in my opinion, on the planet. They include companies like Viome, Blue Dot, Moon Express, and InfaSpace. His name is Naveen Jain and he's truly got a mind that challenges innovation, it challenges intuition, and it's not just counterintuitive, it's not just different, it is truly, truly radical. So Naveen, I'm so genuinely grateful, humbled, and fascinated to be sitting with you today. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I genuinely feel that when you think and you articulate things...

• 4:23Jay Shetty?

  I'm like wanting to solve a puzzle. So, so for me, this is a puzzle to be solved, not an interview.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, Jay, it's so kind of you and I'm honored that you chose me to be here because I think we're gonna have some fun conversation and hopefully we can move the needle and we can help billions of people live better lives.

• 4:42Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, and I think we really share that mission. I think we both really care and for me, as someone who I genuinely believe, sitting in front of you, someone who's just starting out, I, I wanna learn today. I'm sitting here in front of you, wanting to learn from you. So I'm excited to be coached, mentored and empowered by a incredible mind.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  And Jay, and same here. I'm here to learn from you in terms of how you can take all the information and really provide it to the people that essentially can use that information to live better lives.

• 5:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm excited. I'm really, really excited about this. I wanna dive straight in. We know that your book's called Moon Shots and your company right now that you're building, working extensively on is Moon Express. And when I read about the mission of Moon Express, I was like, whoa, like, how, how does one even think of that? Because people want to get to the moon, but you don't wanna get to the moon so that we can live there. You wanna get to the moon so that we can take lunar resources and apply them for innovation to the world. How did you even come up with that idea?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, if you think about what are the, some of the biggest problems facing humanity? First thing is really the survival of the human species. So every one of us who worries about the climate change and everything else, the first thing they tell you is, I'm really, really, really worried about this planet. And my answer to them is, please don't worry about this planet. This planet is gonna be just fine. Worry about the human species that may not survive. If you think about it, when all of the dinosaurs died, this planet thrived. The planet was totally fine and it created the human species. If we keep doing what we're doing. Human species may not be around to enjoy it. This planet will just go on.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  It's going to create new set of species and they may be smarter or dumber than human species. So my job really is to figure out and saying, is there any way we can potentially make humans as a multi-planetary society? Because if all of us are living, seven billion of us are living on a single spacecraft. And we call that spacecraft Planet Earth. Now imagine if our spacecraft gets damaged because we get hit by asteroid, then we couldn't become just the dinosaurs, right? And if you can hear any dinosaurs rolling in their grave, what would they be saying? They will be saying, if they had one good entrepreneurial dinosaur, they would be roaming on the moon and the Mars and the beyond. Didn't happen for them.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  So why not we as humans could start to figure out, can we actually live on multiple spacecraft? So if one spacecraft gets damaged, either because of some external situation, or we humans are pretty capable people ourselves, we could destroy this planet. And at least we could save the human species and recreate the human species on other places.

• 7:27Jay Shetty?

  Wow, so the human planet is more powerful than the human species. So we're more likely to go extinct. Do you just think though that, this is quite, I'm going off the line here, I'm going into the conversation as we were talking about. Do you just think though that humans are too irresponsible, that no matter how many resources we have, we're so irresponsible, we just waste whatever we're given?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Well, it's very interesting is that human species, actually everyone thinks is greedy. And it turns out, actually, we as human species are very giving. In fact, giving and philanthropy and taking care of others is built into our DNA. So if you go back and look at the things when we were living in small tribes, we all realize that if our tribe died, we could not survive alone. That means taking care of tribe was something we did for our own survival. And I really think it's very interesting is that today, we believe it doesn't matter how much we have, we're going to always want more and there's always going to be scarcity because people are greedy. In fact,

• 8:29Speaker 01

  We can go out on a stadium. Seventy thousand of us could sit in a stadium. And we enjoy the game without ever feeling greedy about air. Or oxygen. We never slapped the guy next to us and say, "Stop breathing my air." "This is my air, I paid for it." People just, all of us can enjoy air and oxygen. Because we inherently believe the air is in abundance. Oxygen is in abundance. Now imagine, if the energy was, becomes the next air. That becomes abundant, that means is democratized and is demonetized. Now, every ninety minutes, more solar energy falls on planet Earth than we use in the whole year. It's just a simply a matter of conversion.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  And that will happen. It is no different than if you go back couple of hundred years ago. The most precious metal used to be aluminium. And the reason was because it was very hard to extract pure aluminium. And we needed to extract from bauxite, which was extremely hard to do. Until the technology called electrolysis came about. It made it so cheap that we now throw it away. Now, what would be the electrolysis of the solar power? That will make it so easy, so cheap. That electricity or energy will become abundant like air. And it will be freely available to everyone. And if we have a free energy. An abundant free energy. You'll be able to get abundant, fresh, clean water. Even in the dirtiest places in Africa.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  You'll be able to distill the water. And all the organisms that people get sick from, that can all go away. Now imagine the same thing can happen with agriculture. Same thing can happen with the food. What if we had abundant of food? What if everything that we value today? Everything that we fight over today? What if all of those things become abundant, right? What is it that we fight over? We fight over land, water, energy. And you start to think about if we can have abundant energy, just like we talked about, abundant water that we talked about and land, where is the scarcity of land? We are a tiny pale blue dot in our own solar system. Our solar system is a tiny dot in our galaxy.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Our galaxy is a tiny dot in our universe and our universe may be a tiny dot in this multiverse. Where is that scarcity of land we talk about? The scarcity is our mind that believes we cannot live anywhere else. What if we can change that?

• 10:55Jay Shetty?

  Well, I love how optimistic you are. It's incredible to hear optimism because I, I don't doubt it either. I don't doubt it either. You're right. And, and I think it'll be fascinating. I'm fascinated to see you do it.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  But I will talk to you about your mindset now, Jay, because I think one of the reasons people believe that it can't be done because in their mind it is impossible.

• 11:16Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  The minute people believe something is impossible, it becomes impossible just for them and no one else. Right? So now let's talk about living on the moon. Because how can you possibly live on the moon? Are you that naive to not know there is tremendous amount of radiation? How are we going to go live on the moon? So one of the things I'm going to talk about is how do you take the most complex problem? And you start to break it down into simple things. And I want to give that mindset to everyone who's listening to it. So let's start with like living on the moon. When people say you cannot live on the moon because there is such high radiation. And you say, stop for a second. Now let's see what technologies currently exist or needs to be created to make that possible.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  And suddenly you will realize that nature has already solved many of these problems. We find bacterial species growing in radioactive nuclear waste. Imagine what that means is now the nature has figured out how to protect its DNA from extremely high radiation and use the radiation as a source of energy. Now if we can take these bacterial genes. Use CRISPR, which is a genetic editing technology, to modify the human genes in vivo. Would it be possible to become radiation resistant? Absolutely. Now, the technology may not exist today, but would it be there in three years or five years? Absolutely.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  So now we say, okay, that problem is not in the beyond the realms of physics. It can be solved. Now, the next thing people say is, fine, I give that to you. How are we going to grow the food on the moon? And my answer to that is, that's a dumb question. The question you need to be asking is, why do we need to eat food? And then suddenly people say, oh, you're that stupid. In that case, let me tell you that. We need food because we need energy. We need nutrition. And I say, stop for a second. Let's analyze both of them. You need energy. The plants can get energy from the solar system like photosynthesis. Bacteria gets energy from radiation. Can't we use either photosynthesis or radiation as a source of energy? Yeah, that's quite possible. Now, it comes to now nutrition.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  What nutrition are we talking about? Well, we need hydrogen, we need oxygen, we need nitrogen. Hold on. There is a water on the moon. If there is a water, there is H two O. That means there is hydrogen, there is oxygen. We can break down the water and you get hydrogen and oxygen. Now, the nitrogen thing is pretty interesting. Let's think about how we're going to get there. Let's put that on the shelf. Now, living on the moon is simply about how do we get nitrogen to the moon? And that problem now we can work on solving. And that is really what I mean by taking a complex problem, breaking it down and saying, what is it that needs done to solve that problem?

• 14:07Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making. And that extends to the practical stuff too. Like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are. And they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

• 14:42Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last, and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality, so you can shop with more confidence. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache,

• 15:26Jay Shetty?

  Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors,

• 16:12Jay Shetty?

  high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. Absolutely. Now, if you're listening to this, you can't see my face. If you're watching this, you can see my face. If you're listening, I am mind-blown right now, because I love the way Naveen thinks about a problem. And if you are listening and you want to take notes, take notes on how Naveen solves problems and how he thinks about them differently. It's so unique, it's so powerful, and I'm so glad that we align and agree, because the way you think about these problems is how I think about the human mind. Because to me, when I think about it, no matter what planet we end up on, if our mindset and our mental health is not taken care of,

• 16:55Jay Shetty?

  we both know that no matter what facilities you provide us with, the human mind will find flaws, the human mind will feel imperfect, it will feel depressed, it will feel anxiety. So for me, that's the big problem that I'm trying to solve.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  I think, first of all, you're absolutely correct that human mind, to some extent, is always looking for problems. Because at the end of the day, if you think about how we grew up in the savannas of Africa, what was the thing we always survived? If you missed the bad news, if you did not hear the some type of rustle in the leaves, your whole gene pool got wiped out. A good news did not matter. To me, the only thing our mind is constantly scanning for is negativity. The amygdala is designed to think about what can go wrong, always skimming for the bad news, is looking for the bad news. And that's the reason that people in the news business have figured it out.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  If it bleeds, it leads, right? They're constantly feeding you with the negative news because they know your mind will always be paying attention to it. And that's the reason, all of the scientific advances, advances that's making our life better is no longer being talked about because people are not looking for that. And that's why I admire people like you, Jay, who are honestly taking the message. And the message is really simple. How do we improve the lives of individuals and collectively billions of people? So your mission is so close to what it needs to be for each one of us to be thinking, what can I do? Not what can someone do for me?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  What can I do for someone else? What can I do to make the lives better for someone else? Our success will never be defined by how much money we have in the bank. Our success will always be defined by how many lives we have been able to improve while we are still alive.

• 18:56Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. I want to rewind back because in the book Moonshots, you talk about your life. And you talk about how you started out. And I do think that's important to highlight. Because your journey is incredible. You didn't have it handed to you on a plate. No one gave you the wealth, the resources, the knowledge that you have here and said, hey, here you go, go change the world. You are an immigrant. You have that immigrant mentality. I want to know, where did this desire and this hunger to want to have this impact on the world come from? And where did it start?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's really hard to find specific things, you know. People tend to rewrite the history. After they become successful, they go back and rewrite their life of what that moment was. But the truth really is, life is a continuum. Every thought process is built on something in the past. Every experience is built on something from the past. And there comes a time where you essentially become different and it's not like suddenly it is a tap function. It is a continual change that's constantly happening. So to me, you know, growing up in India, we were very, very poor. We didn't have a food to eat, we didn't have a place to stay. And we lived in most remote villages where there were no schools and nothing.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  And despite all of that, my sister went on to become a post-doctorate in applied mathematics. My brother has a PhD in statistics and computer science. And I did my engineering and MBA, came to the United States about thirty-five years ago with five dollars in my pocket and just a dream. An amazing thing happened, God has been so kind to us. Any which way you look at it, God has given us everything we could have possibly asked for. And the only way I can pay the debt back to the society for what I have received is to go back and do things that can help improve the lives of billions of people in this society. I know the people who helped me don't need my help.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  And the only way to pay back is to pay forward. And I hope that by the time I die, I would have paid my debt back to the society.

• 21:02Jay Shetty?

  That is beautiful, man. That is beautiful. I couldn't agree more. You're so right that the people that help us, you can't pay them back, and the only way to pay them back is to pave it forward.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:11Jay Shetty?

  I couldn't agree more. And I feel that my work,

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:13Jay Shetty?

  in the same way from my teachers that taught me everything I know, this is my same expression of that feeling, that emotion.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I would love to even, you know, let's exchange some notes here because you learned a lot being a monk in eastern philosophy. And the things we are right now learning and doing is goes back to that.

• 21:34Jay Shetty?

  With why?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  With why more. Otherwise, I mean, if you start to look at the basic knowledge of what makes us happy. So you talked about being depressed and anxious and mental health. And you go back and look at this thing, people had so little in ancient days. They didn't have air conditioning. They didn't have fancy houses. But they lived happy.

• 21:56Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  What was it? Because it came from inside. If you are unhappy with yourself, if you don't love yourself, and you are unhappy with yourself, it doesn't matter. You could be in paradise and you bring that unhappiness with you. And if you are in love with yourself, and when I say love with yourself, I just want to make sure I'm not talking about being self conceited. What I mean, really, you're not looking for approval from someone else because you're comfortable who you are. You're not looking for someone to approve of who you are. And then if you are happy inside, you could be sitting in a dark corner and you are happy because you don't need someone to make you happy.

• 22:40Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Happiness is a choice.

• 22:43Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  And people can make their choice every single day. Even if you are very, very rich, you can find a reason to be unhappy. I'm only flying in a Gulfstream five. My life sucks. Look at Larry Page. He's got seven forty seven converted. Look at Bill Gates and he's flying in this big plane. My life just sucks. Or you can say, oh, my God, I woke up from the bed and my joints don't ache. How lucky I am. I turn around and say, wow, look at the women next to me. I am just so lucky. Right, you can, every day you can find reasons for you to be happy. The happiness is when you are comfortable with who you are.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  And the minute you start to prove to someone else, then you are never successful and never happy. And that's the reason why I believe the only way to measure your successful or not, the day you become humble is the day you become successful. If you still have iota of arrogance left in you, then you're still trying to prove something to yourself or someone else. And the day you let go of that, you're successful.

• 23:50Jay Shetty?

  I love that, man. That is beautiful. That was one of my quotes I had down in my notes. Because when I read that, that touched me so much. Because I so much believe that, that the desire to always be a learner, desire to always be a student, and to recognize, what you keep saying, the words intellectual curiosity.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:08Jay Shetty?

  And how that disappears when we lose humility.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:11Jay Shetty?

  How the ego just takes over.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  And even, I mean, I think, you know, you and I briefly were talking about education. And that is, again, another problem we are facing, is that we believe the job of the teacher or job of the parent is to take the horse to the water, take the child, make them drink. And I think that is the fundamental problem. We are not creating the thirst. Because if you can make someone thirsty, you never have to take them to water or make them drink. They will find their own water and they will drink all their life. And that is what I call intellectual curiosity. Give them a chance to think, what if everything they want is possible? What if the world can be created exactly what they want?

• 24:58Speaker 01

  So don't focus on what the world is, focus on what the world can be. Because if you can imagine it, you can create it.

• 25:05Jay Shetty?

  Well, that's your philosophy. You're great at, and I love it, and I agree with it. You're great at seeing how your work can empower others, not make them dependable.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 25:15Jay Shetty?

  Right? You don't want to create things so that the world depends on you, and so that you're seen as someone who's providing everything.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:22Jay Shetty?

  Your belief is that, how can we find ways to empower people uniquely?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  And that's really interesting that as we are talking about the, you know, the company, the healthcare company that I started.

• 25:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Our mission was making illness optional, not making illness obsolete. Because making illness obsolete says, just listen to me, let me do it, and you can count on me to do something. Instead, we says, no, my job is to empower you with information, and actionable thing that you can do to make illness optional. That means you have to have a choice, and ultimately it'll be your decision.

• 25:59Jay Shetty?

  Tell us about Viome a bit more, and how you're actually going about solving that problem? Because I think healthcare is just such a huge issue. And I love what you said earlier, that you don't want people to rely on the government to change anything, and institution to change anything, but people can become the change themselves. So let's talk about Viome.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think, you know, before we get to Viome, I just wanted to give you a little bit background on how I got to be here. Because as you will realize, I am not a scientist, I am not a doctor, I'm not a physician, and I'm not a rocket scientist, right? To me, the biggest strength that you and I have is not being an expert at what we do, right? You, if you came from a media, and you try to do what you're doing, Jay, you'll miserably fail because you're trying to bring the knowledge of the existing paradigm into a new paradigm, and you fail. The thing I believe you're absolutely the master at it is because you were naive. You were willing to challenge the foundation of everything

• 26:58Speaker 01

  that everybody in this industry take it for granted. So to me, not being an expert is your biggest expertise.

• 27:05Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Right? If you are afraid to do something because you say you don't know much about it, always think that is your biggest strength, that you don't know much about it. And I'll tell people, this industry has never seen anyone like me, because they should be scared, because I don't know what is possible.

• 27:26Jay Shetty?

  I love that, that is unbelievable, that is so funny, that's amazing.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  So as I was finishing my project of the Moon Express, going to the moon and taking literally the moon shot. What do you do for an encore? And I thought, you know what, to do an encore, you got to go out and maybe solve yet another moon shot. And I thought the two biggest problems, really that I want to solve were education and healthcare. And I start to look at both of them, it turns out that both of them are very, very similar. In a sense that, in both cases, people believe the system is not working for them. In both cases, people believe the education system and the healthcare system is completely broken. And it turns out, neither of the system is actually broken.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  In both cases, it's doing exactly what it was designed to do. So you look at our education system, it was designed to teach us skills. In the industrial era, we needed, you know, fifty thousand people with lathe machines and fifty thousand accountants and twenty thousands of this skill. And you could learn that skill, use the skill for rest of your life, and life was amazing. In the world of exponential technologies, it doesn't matter what skill you learn. Even by the time you graduate, the skill you learned has become obsolete. So how do we create an education system for the new paradigm?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Where skills are no longer needed, however, learning to learn is needed. So it is basically not that our education system is broken, it wasn't designed for our current system. And, you know, just to give you an example, if you see your grandpa using that old flip phone. And say, and he's making a call, he says, "Grandpa, your phone is broken." Grandpa says, "No, the phone is doing just fine, it was designed to dial the phone number and it does that." It doesn't play Angry Bird, but it wasn't designed to play Angry Bird, so it's not broken. If your need is to play Angry Bird or to play apps, then you need a totally different phone. But doesn't mean your phone that was designed to be a phone is broken.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  And that's the reason I believe the new education system will be learning to learn. It will be about learning to solve problems. And most problems tend to be multidisciplinary rather than unidisciplinary. That means you have to learn multiple disciplines rather than become expert in one discipline, right? It has to be collaborative. It has to be adaptive, right? And all those things will come about. Today, in our education system, collaboration is out the window. So if I am in sitting in an exam and I say, hey Jay, what do you think is the answer to this problem? They call that a cheating. And you do the same thing in the company. People say, what a great team player. That is such a good example, yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  So point is, we have to change the way education system has to adapt. Now, you look at the healthcare system, exactly the same thing. It was designed at that time, so when we were dying from infectious diseases. So we waged the war against the bacteria and viruses without realizing what makes us human. And to me, that was really the biggest learning for me was, when I started looking and start to look at, why is it that we spending more and more money in the healthcare? And people are getting sicker and sicker. The hardest part for me was, here is the only industry that we know of

• 31:00Speaker 01

  that only makes money when the customer doesn't actually get better. So healthcare industry, everyone makes money when you are sick. Hundred percent. And no one makes money when you are healthy. What other industry you can get away with that? In fact, when you have a chronic disease, I won't be surprised if a pharma companies and the hospitals have a ka-ching button. You go there and say, I got a chronic disease. Ka-ching, a lifetime subscriber. They don't want to understand what is causing that chronic disease. All they want to do is suppress the symptom. So you become dependent on their drug for rest of their life.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Now imagine, if you were to do a simple research, and it's called Dr. Google. So you go to Dr. Google and you type any chronic disease, Parkinson's and microbiome.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  You type autism, depression, anxiety, autoimmune diseases, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, liver cancer, pancreatic cancer, breast cancer. Every one of the things I mention is caused by one thing and one thing only. Chronic low-grade inflammation causes chronic diseases and chronic inflammation happens with the imbalance of microbiome. And when I was going out and looking at the healthcare, it turns out to me that in last five to seven years, the research is pretty clear that every chronic disease is caused by the imbalance of microbiome. And people are wondering, what is that term he's talking about, the microbiome? Let's take a step back.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  We as humans, there are more foreign cells in our human body than the cells we get from our mom and dad. There are more foreign cells than the human cells. That is nothing. In fact, a lot of people talk about our genes are our destiny. Now, one thing people don't realize is, from the time you're born to the time you die, your genes never change. Your DNA stays the same from the time you're born to the time you die. Somewhere along the lines, you get sick. How can that possibly be your DNA? It has to be something else. And so, it is really not your genes, but your gene expression.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  And it turns out, the human genes that we get from our mom and dad, they're only gene expressed, when it comes to gene expression, our human DNA only expresses 20,000 genes. That's it. There are organisms that are living inside the gut, 40 trillion of them. And how much is 40 trillion? Just to put in the context, there are 7 billion people live on this planet Earth. If there are 5,000 different Earth, all the people combined live inside the single person. 40 trillion of these organisms Nah, that's my head. Right? Live inside us, they produce somewhere between 2 million to 20 million genes.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  They express 2 million to 20 million genes. That means, at best, we are 1% human. What happens in our gut controls everything in our body. And it's very interesting that we talk about these mental diseases. Every day, there is a research that shows that how our gut controls our... There is a neural circuit. In fact, now they've found how it is synaptically connected to our brain reward center. So imagine when you're depressed, what's the first thing you do? You eat. Yeah. When you're anxious, you get butterfly in your stomach. You don't get butterfly in your head, right? It's very interesting is that suddenly we're starting to realize

• 34:46Speaker 01

  that gut may be key to our overall health and overall being. And I can say that to you, I never tell anyone. In the eastern philosophy... That is it. Right? When you go back and not only talks about the gut. In fact, you remember, mom will say, "Listen to your gut, do your gut check." But I was gonna say something different. Remember Brahma, the creator of the universe? It comes out of Navel. Yes. It shows that's where the life starts. Life starts in the gut, right? In fact, the first time... Super profound. Right? We are seeded is when the baby goes through the mother's birth canal. That's where seeded with all these microbes. The first seven days of mother's milk contains cholesterol.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Cholesterol cannot be digested by the human body. It can only be digested by the microbes in the gut. So imagine what nature is telling us. I just created this offspring. The only way to keep this offspring healthy, it not to feed it, but to feed them. Because when you feed them, they release the nutrients. It actually modulates and trains our immune system. Now, if you think of a human body, it's pretty gross to think that way. We are actually like a donut, right? There is a tube that goes through in the middle for us, right? And our human body is really around. That's a vision. It's around that tube. Seventy percent of all of our immune system is along our gut lining.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  That means our microbes are constantly training our immune system. Immune system is what causes the inflammation. Immune system is what keeps us actually alive and healthy.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Now, so most people have very hard time understanding this concept of microbiome. So I came up with this alternate tongue in cheek story of what made us human? Or how humans were created? And if you can indulge me for two minutes, I'd like to share that story. Yeah, go on, I wanna hear. Because once you hear that story, you can never unhear it. Okay, let's do it. Right, so you know, if you imagine that we know this planet is 3.6, you know, 4.6 billion years old. And about three and a half billion years ago, you start to see life on this planet. The amoebas, the bacteria, and viruses, and yeast, and the fungus and mold. Humans are only couple of million years old.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  So how did humans come to be? So imagine if this is how it could have happened. And I'll give you the scientific basis for each one of the things that I'll tell you with a tongue in cheek. So imagine now, all these, one day, all these bacteria and viruses and organisms got together and say, "We're sick and tired of living in this small space. We wanna take over the world." And they all looked at each other. One of the smarter ones said, "I have an idea." "What's your idea?" "What if we can create something by pedal? What if trillions of us could live inside it? All we have to do is keep this thing healthy. We can make it crave any food we want. It's gonna go run around everywhere and find the food for us, and it's gonna feed us. And it's gonna go everywhere in the world.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  It's gonna poop everywhere. It's gonna spread us around, and we're gonna take over the world." And they created this new invention, and they called that humans. And after they created humans, they all started to wonder, what have they just done? So today, as we are all afraid of artificial intelligence, and we wonder, "What if someday AI becomes smarter than humans? What is gonna happen to us humans?" These organisms were no dumb. They said, "Oh my god, what have we just done? What if someday our invention becomes smarter than us? What is gonna happen to us?" They reassemble and say, "Master, master, we have a problem." "What is the problem, son?" "Master, aren't you worried we created humans?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  What if someday they become smarter than us?" Master said, "Don't worry, we put all the controls in place." "What are those, master?" Humans seem to be forgetting that inside their cell, this thing they call mitochondria, it is one of our bacterial brother right inside their cell. It powers their energy, it gives energy to their cell. And remember, we all talk to it all the time. Anytime they don't take good care of us, we tell our brother to shut their energy down and they all dead. Master, that is brilliant. But are you forgetting something? They starting to develop something called brain. What are we gonna do about that? Master says that the first thing we thought about, remember, we all live in the gut.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  We put a direct connection to their brain. And can you believe that? They call that a vagus nerve.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  They were thinking like, if they call it after Las Vegas, what happens in the gut is gonna stay in the gut? They were wrong! What happens if the gut goes everywhere? Now, I'm gonna tell you a secret. We control their mood and emotions. We use the vagus nerve to control their amygdala. We control their prefrontal cortex. Now, what makes them feel good, this serotonin thing? We don't let them produce much of that. Ninety percent of all the serotonin, we produce it ourselves in the gut. If they wanna feel good, they better feed us right. Now, like a good leader, we make them think they are the one who are making the decisions. We sit here, we pull all the strings. So, we are the puppet master, they are simply our puppet. So, sit back, relax, we have taken over the world.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Now, imagine that story, Jay. It sounds really fictional. But there is a nature paper that was published three months ago, that says how microbiome in our gut uses the micro RNA interference to control our amygdala for their own benefit. They control our mood and emotions for their own benefit. There was a paper that was published that how microbiome and mitochondria constantly are communicating in aging. So, as we age, our microbiome changes, it reflects in the mitochondria that changes our energy. And now they're able to find that they can replace the mitochondria in the cell and the signs of aging go away. So I really believe that every day we are now finding

• 41:02Speaker 01

  that there is a neural neural circuit that's directly connected to our brain and they've optically stimulated the epithelial cells, the gut lining, and within milliseconds, it actually hit the reward center of our brain. Someday when we think our gut is our secondary brain, what if we are wrong? What if that is the primary brain? Before this was developed, our brain was developed, we had the gut. Gut may be the primary brain, just like we used to think this earth is the center of the solar system. And when Galileo said it may not be right, they started stone him to death, right? What if we are wrong? What if gut is really the key? What if the gut is the brain?

• 41:46Speaker 01

  And we are simply are the puppets that are actually run by these organisms? And when we die, these organisms simply find a new host. Wow. So what we do at Wyom is very interesting. We found the technology that was developed at Los Alamos National Lab. They were trying to solve the problem of the bio defense work. And they developed an amazing technology that can look at your gut, every single organism, not just who they are, not who is active, but most importantly, what are they doing? And by looking at what they are doing, we are able to now understand what is causing the inflammation in your body and what nutrients you're lacking.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  So now you can personalize the food for every individual and saying, if food that's good for you may not be good for me. Yeah. And one of the very interesting things we're learning is there is no such thing as universal healthy food. Spinach that people, Popeye taught all of us, it was healthy. It turns out spinach has so much oxalic acid. Unless you have enzymes in your gut to detoxify oxalic acid, when you eat spinach, it's actually going to harm you. Totally. Same thing happens with pomegranate juice and the blackberry. People who go on a keto diet, what happens is they eat too much protein.

• 43:06Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And some people, when they eat too much protein, it doesn't digest in the upper intestine. It goes through the colon and it feeds the protein fermenters that releases the ammonia and sulfite. And it makes you, causes higher inflammation that causes bloating. And by the way, chronic low-grade inflammation that may end up as obesity, diabetes and all other chronic diseases. So what we actually do is to be able to tell you what food is good for you and why. What food is bad for you and why, and specifically just for you. So here we are able to now understand the key to the health. And what is a healthy food for one person is not healthy for someone else. And food is really the medicine.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  And here's very interesting, we felt really, really good that we have really cracked the code of understanding what, you know, is human. And history is amazing to keep you humble. We go back and look at what Hippocrates said twenty-five hundred years ago. All diseases begin in the gut. One man's food is another man's poison. Let food be thy medicine, let thy medicine be the food. And I'm thinking, really?

• 44:20Jay Shetty?

  Well, even before that, you have Ayurveda.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  That's my point.

• 44:23Jay Shetty?

  Right, Ayurveda.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Ayurveda.

• 44:24Jay Shetty?

  Five thousand years ago.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Five thousand years ago, what did they say? Everyone understood they did that thing at a gross level, the Kappa Peta, right? And they said, really, gut is the key.

• 44:36Jay Shetty?

  Everything.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Everything was in the gut. And you know, if you go back and look at the Ayurveda, it talks about the life is starting in the gut.

• 44:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  And it talked about looking at the gut and finding out what is going on and telling you what food is good for you.

• 44:49Jay Shetty?

  And that we all have a unique makeup.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Unique makeup.

• 44:52Jay Shetty?

  We're all different.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Right?

• 44:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  How did it happen that we forgot everything?

• 44:57Jay Shetty?

  Well, we ignore it, right? Like we want to be the discoverer. We wanna be the discovery. We actually, I take that back. We want to be the inventors.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:05Jay Shetty?

  And therefore, we don't like using previous discovery, not recognizing that everything was previously talked about.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  But that is the beauty, that if you want to make a big change, you have to stand on the shoulders of the previous giants.

• 45:19Jay Shetty?

  That requires humility, like you said. That requires the humility to to do that. Otherwise, it's much more fun to think you founded something.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like my saying, oh, we found the food is the medicine.

• 45:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Really? No, we did not.

• 45:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. But we like that. It it feeds us.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  The only thing we did is we are able to now scientifically prove what they already knew.

• 45:40Jay Shetty?

  Which is brilliant. I'm so happy to hear that. Like, it's brilliant. It's modernizing Ayurveda.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  That's exactly what it is, right? Now, that is the reason, you know, when people like Deepak Chopra listen to me and they say, really? So now you're learning Ayurveda? And I'm thinking, really? That's what I'm doing.

• 45:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, but the but the difference is you're not just learning it, you're finding out ways where we can be more specific.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:01Jay Shetty?

  More detailed, and we can do it at scale, which I think is powerful.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  And also explain to the people in a simpler word, the science behind it.

• 46:10Jay Shetty?

  Yes, absolutely. And that's what we need. We need that. Like, I think all of these ancient sciences exist of the mind, of the gut, etc. But if we're not able to explain it to people in a powerful, productive way, so what you're doing is just unbelievable.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  But here's the interesting part. It doing that, it can only work.

• 46:28Jay Shetty?

  If people fall.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  If actually, when people try, but we have to come together as humanity. So interesting thing is, look at the pharmaceutical companies. They, to large extent, they want to keep us sick. And you know, a chronic disease to them, as we said, is really about a subscriber.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  From their perspective, they believe the humanity will never come together. And you know, when you get the data about one person, it is about data about one person. If you want to solve this problem for billions of people, millions of us have to come together. So we can understand exactly the different permutations and combinations of the organisms and peptides and enzymes in your gut. So we, once we understand that for every single disease, that's why we believe we can make disease optional. But unfortunately, I can't do it myself. We have to have a million people come together to help us solve this problem. And if we don't, we're gonna watch our children and grandchildren suffer.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  I believe our generation is the first generation that has the technology at its disposal to once for all eliminate chronic diseases. And if we don't do it, it will be a missed opportunity for all of us. And I don't know about you, but I have three children, Ajay, and I cannot watch them go through this.

• 47:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  And my dad just passed away two weeks ago from pancreatic cancer. And I was reading the research, it clearly shows that how pancreatic cancer is caused by the microbiome moving from the gut, going to pancreas, shutting down the immune system. And I was by his side when he passed away two weeks ago. And I said, Dad, I, you know, I wish I had started this company two years ago, I would have found the solution. I can't help you, but I promise you, I'm gonna work twice as hard to make sure no one else suffers from it. So I have made it my mission to make sure that, you know, we can eliminate these sufferings from chronic diseases.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Anyone who has seen their, you know, parents go through dementia, Alzheimer, or any types of chronic diseases. We look at autoimmune disease is so prevalent in our society now. And when you look at the drug, all they do is simply suppress the immune system. They don't care what causes the disease. No one wants to look at the root cause of what is causing the disease. They simply say, let's suppress the immune system if you're autoimmune disease. But doc, if you suppress the immune system, don't you think I'm gonna get other diseases? Oh yeah, but we got drugs for them.

• 49:05Jay Shetty?

  Oh yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  But what happens when I take those drugs? Well, you're gonna get other symptoms, but don't worry, we got drugs for them. And by the time you get to my age, you're popping more pills than blueberries.

• 49:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  That is a sickening system where no one is looking at what makes people sick. Everyone is trying to keep the people sick so they can making money. So I really hope that people who are listening to this understand that we actually can come together and solve this problem.

• 49:32Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  And if all of us can come together, our generation will be the one that will be known for solving this problem. So let's stand up together, let's not just, you know, watch it happen.

• 49:44Jay Shetty?

  I loved what you said to me when we were outside around. A lot of people, if you're listening right now, first of all, if you can't see me, I'm nodding because I want to be a part of this change. Thank you for sharing the story about your father as well and what you promised him because I genuinely believe that so many of these issues can be eradicated if we approach it in the right way. When I moved to the US, I was shocked to see the advertising around pills and healthcare.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Can you believe that?

• 50:08Jay Shetty?

  I could not believe it. I just could not believe that every advert in between a show.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:13Jay Shetty?

  Was about, I mean, the, the small print says it all.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:17Jay Shetty?

  I couldn't believe that that's legal. Like it just blew my mind.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  But here's the thing, what they don't tell you is the, the best selling drug has efficacy of twenty percent. And what people don't understand what efficacy means, that means eighty percent of the people will have no benefit.

• 50:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Twenty percent of the people who do benefit will also have all those side.

• 50:37Jay Shetty?

  Things, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  That means hundred percent of the people will be harmed. Hundred percent of the people will be harmed and twenty percent may also get some benefit.

• 50:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  What other industry you can get away with that?

• 50:49Jay Shetty?

  I know. How is that legal? I don't get it. How is that legal?

• 50:52Speaker 01

  That's the industrial, medical industrial complex is what is really keeping us sick. And if we came together as humanity and we all were able to understand our gut and we could all come together to really collect all the data that makes us sick, imagine what will happen.

• 51:11Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Our children, our grandchildren will never have to suffer for it. Never.

• 51:15Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I hope we can all come together.

• 51:17Jay Shetty?

  I hope so too, man. I'm with you.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  My recommendation is that, you know, please sign up for Wyoming if you can. And I'm going to actually make it, you know, give everyone it at our cost. That means we make zero cent from it. I'm going to offer that to all of the people who are listening to it, that they can do it at our cost.

• 51:37Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. Thank you so much. And I highly recommend it as well.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:40Jay Shetty?

  I highly recommend it. We need to get to that place. It's unbelievable what you're doing. It's unbelievable what you're doing.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  So let's.

• 51:46Jay Shetty?

  And that's, I wanted to talk about that to get everyone, before we shift the conversation slightly. I want to end that part of the conversation on this point that you raised outside around. Some people may be listening going, wow, Naveen, you're super smart, which you are. You're super talented, which you are, but you're dealing with really big problems. I'm trying to solve small ones. But I love the example you gave me outside about solving small versus big problems.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think, Jay, what we were talking about is so much, first of all, it takes same amount of energy. If you're going to do something in life, make it meaningful. Do something that you actually are passionate about. What are you willing to die for and then live for it? Imagine, God forbid, you're actually successful in doing what you're doing. Would it actually move the needle? Would it help a billion people live a better life? And what we were talking about is. It's easier to solve a bigger problem than to solve a small problem. And here's why I say that. If you start to take something a small problem, like we give an example of finding a better roommate. Hey, sure. And you tell someone, hey, what am I, what are you working on?

• 52:53Speaker 01

  I'm finding a, building an iPhone app to find a better roommate. People say, great idea, go have fun. When you tell someone, you're gonna make illness optional. People stop and say, tell me more. And I have seen the best and the brightest quit their job, join you because they believe this problem is worth solving. So I remember when I started this company, not being a scientist and a doctor. I went up on a national TV and I say, you know what? I think time has come for us to make illness optional. And I described what can we do? And I got a call from the head of IBM Watson. He said, I can build the AI for you that can do that.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  And if you can go get me the data what's happening inside the gut. I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna come and join you because this problem is worth solving. A scientist at the Los Alamos National Lab, who has been working in the federal for 15 years, solving this problem, calls and say, you know what? I can tell you exactly everything what's happening inside the people gut. I wanna come and join you, quit my cushy job, come and join you because this problem is worth solving. And suddenly we had the best and the brightest coming together. And every VC starts calling and say, oh my God, what are you doing? Why are all these brilliant people joining you? And they wanna give you money. So imagine what happened.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  I never had to look for the talent, never had to look for money because we were solving a problem that was big enough. That is worth solving. And that's why I believe, anyone who's listening to, just remember two things. If you know nothing about it, that is the advantage you have. And if you're solving something big, the humanity will come together. Universe will align itself to bring the talent from all over the world to come to you. No longer we are bound by the geographical boundaries. A best and the brightest in India or Ukraine or London will come to help you because you no longer have to be in the same geographical location. And that's why I believe entrepreneurs are going to be the next superpowers. It is not going to be the nation states.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Individuals like you and I, Jay, and a small group of people are now solving the problem that only the kings and the queens and the aristocrats and superpowers did. Whether it is going to the moon or is solving the healthcare problem. Solving the problem of the climate change is not going to be Kyoto treaty or Paris treaty. It's going entrepreneur like Elon Musk. It is not going to be the solved by healthcare by, you know, Obama care, Trump care, Putin care is going to be solved by some entrepreneur saying, enough is enough, let's get rid of the diseases. Let's not, let's not just prevent it, let's reverse them, right? And that is the kind of things. Education system is going to be solved by some entrepreneur listening to this podcast and saying, I'm going to go out and solve that problem.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  There is going to be an entrepreneur who's going to go out and say, let's make enough of the food so the food becomes abundance. And again, going back to how do you take the problem and finding out is it a symptom of the problem or is it a root cause? And I want to give one more example, Jay.

• 56:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, do it.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I want people.

• 56:08Jay Shetty?

  I'm feeling super empowered, so.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Because I want people to know how to think about the problem.

• 56:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  So for example, if most people will believe today that, you know, lack of fresh water is one of the bigger problem on, on this planet. And you are an entrepreneur, you go out and start to think about solving that problem. You say, can I build some type of a nano filter in a tube? That means when you see, when you're drinking it, it actually shreds the microorganism and I can have the fresh water. And you feel good about that you're working on the right problem. Until you realize that majority of the fresh water is actually used for agriculture. And you say, aha, what if I can change the way agriculture is done? Use aeroponic agriculture, aquatic agriculture, or even use the seeds that can use lightly salted water?

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Won't that fundamentally create enough fresh water for humanity? And you feel really good. Until you realize that majority of the agriculture is used to feed the cattle. And you say, aha, if people want to eat cattle, the beef, can I actually create beef using the stem cell from the cow, just like nature does? Nature starts with a single cell and multiplies and creates all the different tissues. Skin tissue, the, you know, muscle tissues, the eyes and the liver and the lung. If all you want to eat is muscle tissues, why create any other tissue? And now you can create, just with a single cell, all the muscle tissues and you can have bio factories

• 57:39Speaker 01

  of beef or frog leg or chicken without ever having to raise a single cattle. And suddenly we worrying about seven billion people. Now we have double the agriculture that can feed fourteen billion people. And if you're not using it for agriculture, now we have all the fresh water for humanity. Now imagine, understanding what is the symptom? And what is the root cause? And if you don't understand the root cause, you always end up solving the symptom.

• 58:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that's because you're a problem-first entrepreneur. We talked about that. Technology-first entrepreneurs versus problem-first entrepreneurs. Too many people are looking at technology and saying, oh, this could be cool.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:17Jay Shetty?

  Like this would work, this would be fun. But actually, when you're starting at the root.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:21Jay Shetty?

  And so if you're listening to this, if you're an entrepreneur already, you want to be an entrepreneur, you're an aspiring one. Whichever position you're in, please, please, please start by solving a root problem. Not only will it work more, not only will it have more people who are gonna get behind it, build that community, but it's actually gonna have impact.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 58:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  And I just feel so good that, you know, there's never been a time in the human history. We are, we are living in this decade of amazing innovation. The good thing is that in the next ten to fifteen years, half of the Fortune 500 companies are gonna go bankrupt. That means there is a room for each one of us to create a massive, massive enterprise. So if you wanna create a billion dollar company, you solve a ten billion dollar problem. And you and I both know those ten billion dollar problems are the problems that are facing billions of people.

• 59:15Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent, hundred percent. Well said, brilliantly said. It's amazing. I wanna move the conversation on to talk about, there's this one interaction that I found when I was researching before this and that's why I wanted to point out specifically. And correct me if I'm wrong, sorry. So your, your son once told you that he was gonna make more money than you. Right? And you had an unbelievable response to this. And I think that has, you've really been able to inculcate these values that you have through to your children. Let's talk a bit about parenting and, and raising responsible, young, conscious adults.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, Jay, first of all, thank you very much for that because if I look at my life and I see what are my biggest accomplishments in my life, I would say that would be our children. Because it was easy for me, coming from a humble background, to be hungry and wanting to really do things that could move the needle. Our children grew up in a very affluent home. And it was a challenge for us to think about, what do we do? And I remember having this early days conversation. Me and my wife thought, you know, we could live in a small home and we will never tell children that we have money. And maybe they would just essentially start to grow up that, thinking they have no money. And I told my wife, I say, one day, hopefully, they will learn to read. That will all fall apart.

• 1:00:34Jay Shetty?

  Or use Google.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Instead, why don't we tell them, we have all the resources in the world we need, but we give them the values that we want. And it was very interesting that once we start, once that particular thing happened when my son, oldest, was ten years old. And I was absolutely the top of my game. And, um, and when he told me that, I could have simply put my arms around him and said, "Good luck, son." Instead, that was a teachable moment. I sat him down and said, "I'm surprised you think of success in the way of making money."

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  You will never be successful by simply counting the money. Your success will be based on how many lives you've been able to improve. And if one day you are able to improve more people's life than I did, I'll be so proud of you. And his response at that time was, whatever dad. But imagine he was 10 years old and I remember when he was 17, he was at Walton and he calls me one day. And said, Dad, I have an idea. And I say, what? He said, Dad, you know, I've been thinking about it that I'm going out, I meet so many kids at, in college. I go to friends, see my friends at Harvard and Stanford. They, a lot of them come from middle-class family.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  And they all are brilliant, but they never had mentors like you provided for me. So I'm going to start Kairos. I'm going to start a club where I'm going to bring them the same set of mentors you had for me. So I can go out and get the same mentor for them. And that's how I'm going to help millions of people live better lives. And, and he remembered from that when he was 10 years old, right?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  There's another, you know, obviously graduated from Stanford and then he started a company, sold the company. And now he's so focused on simply solving real-world problem. He's solving a problem of affordable housing using technology. He's solving the problem of senior care. He's not, you know, his belief is very simple, just like you and I do. The Silicon Valley has lost its soul. It is now building the gadgets and the technologies for the sake of building the technology and the latest technology. When smartest people are building the Alexa-enabled toilets, there's something wrong with that picture. When there are people who are graduating with tremendous amount of student loan.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  People who graduate cannot find an apartment that they can pay first month, last month rent. What did he do? He started a company where he's now saying, instead of paying first, last month rent. What if you just pay five-dollar insurance and we insure that? So you don't have to come up with the money upfront. What if the senior care doesn't require the nurse to be at home? Why can't, why can't we Uberize it? So four or five people in the neighborhood can have a nurse and anyone who needs it presses the button, the nurse comes there. Right?

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  So really using the technology to solve real-world problem rather than saying, I got a blockchain, I got a cryptocurrency, what can I do now?

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  And. Now, second big was really our daughter. She actually gives run for his money. She, he's as smart as they get. And by the way, anyone who wants to Google, and he's probably just this month alone. He's on probably multiple magazines, right? Just really, really doing amazing things. But she gives him run for his money. She went to Stanford, she's a Stanford STEM fellow, Stanford Mayfield fellow. She's on the Youth Ambassador for United Nations. And she cared about women's education. And now she's working at the AI company to essentially remove the gender bias. A company called Py Matrix. And our youngest one is a senior at Stanford and just got selected to be a Schwartzman scholar.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  And they only select hundred and fifty people around the world. And I still remember a conversation with my daughter. And the only reason I'm mentioning that is because I think many parents listening to it probably gonna find it really fascinating. When she was sixteen years old, she came to me and said, Dad, I know you love science and technology. I want nothing to do with science and technology, so get used to it. I found my true passion and I'm going to pursue it. And most dad at that time would have said, sweetie, I'm so glad you found your passion. I want to help you pursue that passion. To me, that was not how I thought. I thought saying that is same as saying, look, I just don't have time, do whatever you want.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Instead, I told her, I said, sweetheart, you're not letting dad do his job. She says, what is dad's job? I said, dad's job is to expose you to enough things. You're too young to have a passion. You don't even know what you don't know. So how can you possibly tell me you don't like it? She said, what is it that he would like me to do then? And I said, glad you asked. I want you to go to Singularity University. I want you to learn about nanotechnology, neuroscience, genetics, and computer science, artificial intelligence.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  And then come back and tell me what is your true passion and then you can pursue it. And she said, Dad, if I go there, would you promise me that when I come back, I get to do what I want? And I say, as long as you go with an open mind, wanting to like and wanting to learn, you have my word.

• 1:05:55Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  She goes there for four weeks and she comes back and the first thing she say opened the door was, Dad, I made up my mind. I said, all right, sweetie, I gave you my word. What is it that you would like to do? And she said, Dad, I've decided I'm going to be either a neuroscientist or geneticist. And I say, at the risk of you changing your mind, would you tell me what happened? She said, Dad, you're so dumb. I'm in high school. And high school, I learn about all this stuff and I'm thinking, why do I care? When I mix things, the color changes and I look at all this stuff and think, what would I ever do with this thing in my life? When I went to Singularity University, I realized I always cared about women. How can I help women's life live better life if I don't know how their brain works?

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  I don't know how can I improve their health if I don't know what genetics is. So I realized science and technology is simply the tools in my tool chest for me to do what I want to do.

• 1:06:50Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Right? Guess what happened? She graduated and now she's working in AI to do what? To remove the gender bias in hiring. Did exactly what she wanted to do, but using the technology to solve that problem. And that to me is the key is finding something you're passionate about, but making sure you get enough tools in your tool chest. Because if you don't, if you only have hammer, everything looks like a nail. So if you have a wrench and you have a screwdriver, you can solve multiple problems using the right technology to solve the right problem.

• 1:07:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and it's knowing which problem you want to solve and what skills are going to help you do that in a big way.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:07:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely, because she could have gone and worked in

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Jay Shetty?

  Women's welfare, etc.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  And NGO, right?

• 1:07:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  And my, you know, again, yeah, one more thing I was gonna just point out.

• 1:07:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  If you want to solve a small problem, go start a nonprofit. If you want to solve a big problem, create for-profit company. Because profit is what allows you to help more people. It allows you to scale. If you can take thousand people, make enough profit to get to hundred thousand people. Use that profit to get to hundred million people. Use that profit to get to a billion people. Even if you are the richest man in the world, and if you're losing money, it's only a matter of time you run out of money.

• 1:08:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's really smart, and that's, that's a really fascinating point, because when I was young.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Jay Shetty?

  I never really saw, and I wasn't exposed to role models.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Jay Shetty?

  Who are for-profit and changing the world.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:20Jay Shetty?

  And so I believed that to help the world, I had to be a not-for-profit. I believed to make a real impact, you had to work for a charity. But I love the fact that we live in a world today.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:29Jay Shetty?

  Where you can have a for-profit company.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Jay Shetty?

  Because of which.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:34Jay Shetty?

  You can actually have a deeper impact.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  So doing good and doing well are no longer mutually exclusive.

• 1:08:38Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  In fact, to do well, you have to do a lot of good. And if you do a lot of good, you can do well.

• 1:08:44Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent, hundred percent, and that's exactly what we should be encouraging.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Jay Shetty?

  That's unbelievable. And you do so much, on top of having said all of that, you still do a lot of philanthropy work.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  We do, but to me, so, you know, to me, that is about a short-term thing you do because people need help. But I still dedicate my life to solving the problem, fundamental problem. You can keep people giving money to give them food and give them education, give them thing. But unless you can scale to get rid of the healthcare, so that you don't have to be sick anymore. And you can change the way education is done, so it doesn't cost as much money.

• 1:09:20Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  What if all that can be done using software? Then you don't have, the marginal cost of delivering education can become zero.

• 1:09:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. Naveen, I literally, and I hope, and I hope now that we've connected today, I genuinely want us to be friends because I'm learning so much by sitting and listening to you. I genuinely feel you, you hundred percent have one of the most amazing minds in the planet.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:09:44Jay Shetty?

  Like without a doubt. No, no, no, I'm not, I'm genuinely, I do not say that without a doubt. And at the end of every interview, I do a final five questions.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:51Jay Shetty?

  These are the final five minutes.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:53Jay Shetty?

  Uh, they're usually a bit more rapid fire.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Go for it.

• 1:09:56Jay Shetty?

  You articulate answers so well. You, you're free to go. Uh, my number one question is, how do you remain a continuous learner? You are, right now, like you are reading, you're studying. I want to know, how does Naveen Jain learn?

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  So one thing I do is that every time I am trying to learn something, I go deep into it. So I read, I read probably fifteen to twenty books on the same subject. If you read one book, the author's view becomes your view. When you read fifteen books and all different point of view, you can create a view which is different from all fifteen, and that is the key. So one of the trick I use actually is very interesting is that, until two years ago, I didn't know anything about microbiome. So what I did is I created a Twitter feed of everything to do with every scientific journal that has anything to do with microbiome. And I have fifty or sixty of them, and every day in the morning, I get up at four AM every day, and I go through my Twitter feed, I read all scientific journals. And you can do that for neuroscience, you can do that for cancer,

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  and you can start to do that for every single thing. So I use the Twitter feed to learn about the subject rather than following Trump.

• 1:10:59Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Such a practical tip, practical tip. Second question, you wake up at four AM.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Jay Shetty?

  I knew that. You have an incredible morning routine. Walk us through it.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  So first of all, uh, I think that's really a dumb thing to do.

• 1:11:11Jay Shetty?

  You don't want to tell us it?

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  I tell you why.

• 1:11:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Following the habits of anyone doesn't make you them.

• 1:11:16Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  Right? So the habit are actually the worst thing to follow. And I always say that, you know, like Tony Robbins takes ice bath every day. You can take ice bath three times a day, you're not going to make you Tony Robbins. What makes you Tony Robbins? To think like Tony Robbins.

• 1:11:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  So I think you should have asked me how I think about a problem. But my routines, I mean, like going back to your question, the main thing is getting up early. Every person who has ever made a difference in humanity has always gotten up early. Because the morning hours, there is a lot of scientific evidence. When the first sunrise comes, the amount of the, you know, in terms of brain is aligned with the light. And you're starting to wake up and you have fresh thought. In fact, when in the night, by definition, your circadian rhythm is off. You both, your bacterias have a circadian rhythm and your mind has a circadian rhythm. And as soon as it becomes dark, you can temporarily light up the thing.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  But your body and your circadian rhythm knows it's not the same sunlight. And your brain wakes up with the sunlight. And again, going back to the things I think.

• 1:12:24Jay Shetty?

  I agree with you.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Eastern philosophy, you know, there used to be a sun salute.

• 1:12:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, sun salutations.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Sun salutation, what was that? That was the way for people to know that now the body is waking up. You stretch and you salute to the sun and you get to learning and reading. The early morning, remember the Gruh calls used to be the time to learn when the sun rises.

• 1:12:44Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, yeah, there's a beautiful quote from Martin Luther King where he said that if you want a new idea, read an old book.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and read in the morning.

• 1:12:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and read in the morning, absolutely, absolutely. And I agree with you, by the way, I wanted to clarify. I agree with you that copying someone's routines doesn't. But understanding successful people's routines inspires. So when I ask you about your morning routine, the thing is you don't need to wake up at four AM anymore. In the sense that you're good, like you don't need to, you don't need to do any of this. You're doing it because you're passionate about it.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  This is to me is passion comes from, you know, I think, I think passion is for losers. Obsession is for entrepreneurs.

• 1:13:22Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  So don't be passionate, be absolutely obsession, obsessed with it, right? Because what are you willing to die for? And find something, so the way you can ask yourself, what is your calling is, close your eyes and imagine you have everything you wanted. You have a billion dollars. You have beautiful family. You have everything you want. What would you be doing? And if you do that now, you will get everything that you wanted.

• 1:13:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. Awesome. Uh, so, okay, let's, let's, yeah, we kind of went, yeah, we went for two, but we,

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  With three more left.

• 1:13:55Jay Shetty?

  We went into a different direction, which is fine, which is fine. Uh, three, what's your big advice to young aspiring entrepreneurs?

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Dreams so big that people think you're absolutely crazy and never be afraid to fail. You only fail when you give up. Everything else is simply a pivot.

• 1:14:12Jay Shetty?

  Perfect. Nice. Pivoting. I like it. Okay. Uh, question number four. What's your biggest prediction for the next five to 10 years?

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  I think we, we as humanity has never seen a decade like this. Everything that we have taken it for granted, next 10 years is going to fundamentally change the way we live. The trajectory of how humanity is going to live is going to change in the 10 years, in the next 10 years. Everything from the way we dress, you know, having a personalized 3D printed clothes, to sensors that are essentially going to be built into everything in our tiles, the mirrors, our toilets are going to be analyzing us, the mirrors are going to be analyzing us, our tiles are going to know exactly a room temperature, perspiration, where we are is going to analyze and say when we are depressed, what's going on, when we are sick, everything is going to be analyzed.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  I really think this is one of the most innovative decade where the nano, nanobots in our body is going to be constantly monitoring our health, is going to be repairing our tissue, is going to be, and if tissue is really bad, we're going to be 3D printing our own organs. And, you know, it's going to be just fundamentally the most amazing life we're going to live.

• 1:15:19Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. And question number five, when everyone listening and watching reads moonshots, what will they receive?

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  What they will receive will be a mindset that says everything is possible. The only thing that is not possible is the one that you believe is not possible. And everything else, if you can imagine it, you can create it. So go out and dream so big and dream of crazy ideas and don't look for anyone's approval. And just know that if you're getting everyone's approval, you're not thinking crazy enough.

• 1:15:53Jay Shetty?

  I love that, Naveen. I love that you're such a living example of that. I hope that in our friendship, you're gonna help me even stretch my mind further and think more abundantly as well. But thank you so much for coming.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  It's an honor. And I tell you what, one of the things I admire about you is your way of giving. You do this not because you think this is a way to make money. You do this because I know, because you want to inspire others to be better. You're giving your time and you're giving your energy to making this world better, Jay. And I salute you. I'm humbled and honored to be in your presence.

• 1:16:30Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. No, I'm so, so grateful. And the feeling is mutual. And I'm just excited. What I'm really looking for in my life as well is is more and more mentors that are doing incredible things. And even this conversation has made me realize the value that you have in playing that role in my life. So thank you so much, Naveen.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jay.

• 1:16:47Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. Amazing. So anyone who's watching today, I'm sure you've had your mind blown. I'm sure you've learned a ton. I highly recommend going back and re-listening to this episode because there were so many great stats, figures, facts. But beneath that, if you were really paying attention, there were lots of great mindset lessons about how you can rewire your mind for abundance. So make sure you do that. Make sure you also go and get the book Moon Shots by Naveen. It's super powerful and all of these insights are just touching on the surface. Make sure you go check out Naveen on Instagram, Twitter, everywhere on social media as well. Go ahead and follow him. And we've got Viom. So we're gonna send everyone the link to sign up to Viom. Highly recommend it if you really want to make, yeah?

• 1:17:30Jay Shetty?

  If you wanna make healthcare and wellness, if you want to make it not obsolete, but an option. If you want to make it elective, illness an elective and optional, then please, please, please go and sign up if you believe in this mission. Thank you so much for listening and watching. We'll see you soon.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPak.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:18:28Speaker 04

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  On October 2nd.

• 1:18:32Speaker 04

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami.

• 1:18:35Jay Shetty?

  They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:18:39Speaker 04

  Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us out.

• 1:18:42Speaker 03

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:18:45Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped going? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:18:49Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:18:52Speaker 04

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.