Mike Posner: ON How Fame Ruined His Life

Mike Posner is the musician behind the hit songs I Took A Pill In Ibiza and Cooler Than Me. But behind the flashing lights and sold-out shows lies a very unique mind, one that has learned to deal with fame and fortune and most recently—the loss of his father. On today’s episode, Mike shares his insights on how to deal with loss, why moments of epiphany must be processed, and what the difference between the mind and intelligence is. Mike even turns the table on Jay—and asks him many profound questions about his own experience unpacking mindfulness. Tune in to this episode to catch a glimpse of the mechanics behind this singer-songwriter’s brain. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:29Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 2:16Jay Shetty?

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• 3:00Jay Shetty?

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• 3:09Speaker 01

  My hair has kind of changed as I've gotten older. Growing up like the Kurt Cobain, Tupac Shakur, these kind of guys. But as I've gotten older, I've thought, why am I idolizing them? I should probably idolize, even if it's not real, it's like, it'd probably be better to idolize like Jesus or like the Buddha, right? Even if their like stories are fake, there's no like flaws there. Like that's a better North Star.

• 3:36Jay Shetty?

  So it's not every day that you receive a text message from a multi-platinum selling artist. Someone who's written songs for everyone from Justin Bieber to Pharrell Williams to Big Sean, 2 Chainz, Wiz Khalifa, Nelly, Snoop Dogg, and many, many more. Now, when you hear his name, you'd think of music. You would think of talent, you would think of songwriting. But when I met this individual, we went so deep, so spiritual, so internal, so quickly. Today's guest is Mike Posner. I love the fact that we got into such a meaningful conversation beyond music, beyond money, and beyond fame.

• 4:21Jay Shetty?

  And his new album is out right now. It's called A Real Good Kid. And he even performs two songs from the album on the podcast. I can't wait for you to hear this episode. Welcome, Mike Posner.

• 4:40Jay Shetty?

  Mike, it's great to have you here.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, man.

• 4:43Jay Shetty?

  Thanks for being here, man. I'm really grateful. I want you to know that I really am grateful that we connected recently. And I really appreciate you being here, man.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  You got it. I'm grateful we connected also.

• 4:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen your videos before, so I'm like, there's the guy, man.

• 4:57Jay Shetty?

  I was listening to your music for a long time before too, so when we got connected.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cool, man. That's cool.

• 5:02Jay Shetty?

  And it was nice, because I remember Tom, who connected us. He was like, you guys have both, you both have three billion views, you should connect. And I was just like, I think there's a lot of other reasons we should connect too, but uh.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, man, I wanted to start off by just saying, yeah, I've been a long time fan of your work and your music. So the fact that you let me listen to your album before this, I really appreciate it. And so thank you so much for doing that. But I want to start off by, we were on a call, I think about two, three weeks ago, and you were in a bookstore. Which books did you end up buying? Are any of them any good?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  I ended up buying A Gentleman in Moscow.

• 5:40Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  I just finished that.

• 5:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  It was really good.

• 5:43Jay Shetty?

  Okay, what was that about?

• 5:45Speaker 01

  It's a novel about, uh, it's fiction, about a guy in the USSR. In like the twenties and thirties, and he basically is sentenced to live the rest of his life in this one hotel. And it's a nice hotel, but he's not allowed to leave it ever again. And he gets into all these different things and nooks and, you know, the story takes turns and people come and leave and. Uh, it was really fun. It was a really, really good book. And then I bought The Stranger by Camus. That I started yesterday, because I just finished The Gentleman in Moscow. And I haven't been like, I'm not all the way in yet.

• 6:25Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  But we'll see.

• 6:26Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I just started that. And then I bought, um, Brian Wilson from The Beach Boys. He has a autobiography. I bought that.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  And then I think I bought some, that's all I bought, I bought three.

• 6:41Jay Shetty?

  You read a lot?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have been this year. This year, this is probably the most I've ever read, maybe read like twenty books this year.

• 6:49Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  It's like the most for me, but yeah, I've been reading a lot.

• 6:52Jay Shetty?

  That's a lot in a year.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:54Jay Shetty?

  What's been the best one? What's been the highlight, standout one?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Honestly, I read The Power Now by Eckhart Tolle, which was a book I avoided for a long time because it's it's popular, you know, everyone talks, Oprah talks, Eckhart, The Power of Now. And I thought, if it's popular, it's not cool. That's why, you know, foolishly, I always wanted to be like, find some like

• 7:17Jay Shetty?

  Underground.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Seeker, exactly. So I never read it for years and years and years. And then I finally read it and I was like, oh, it's popular for a reason. It's good, man. I read that book like four or five times this year. Yeah.

• 7:32Jay Shetty?

  And we were just looking through my shelf and you said you'd read the Bhagavad Gita.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 7:36Jay Shetty?

  When did you read that? What did you think of it?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  I read that actually when I was visiting India for the first time, the only time so far. That was a year and a half ago. I remember just getting like high reading that book. You know, it was like a, like a physical experience reading it. It was really something else, you know? What was the first time you read it?

• 8:02Jay Shetty?

  The first time I read it, I was sixteen years old. So I read it that time and at that time it was very philosophical for me. Really powerful for getting through some things I got through at sixteen. Then I read it again at eighteen, then I read it again at twenty-one. And then when I became a monk, I studied and taught that book for three years full time. So it became a huge part of my life. And even now, when I'm working on writing my own book, I'm taking a lot of principles from the Bhagavad Gita and making them relevant and accessible. Actually, The Power of Now. Has so many roots in chapter 14 of the Bhagavad Gita.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  What's chapter 14?

• 8:38Jay Shetty?

  Chapter 14 is all about the modes of material nature. A mode that makes you focus on the past, a mode that makes you focus on the future, and a mode that brings you in the present. And so, chapter 14 of the Bhagavad Gita really goes deeply into the different modes that we operate in.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  I mean, we do two hours just on the Gita, man. You tell me stuff like that, bro.

• 9:00Jay Shetty?

  We could, that's what we're gonna save for our time.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, did you ever have this experience, like, I remember being, I don't, what city I was going to, I was in India on a plane, I was reading it, and I was just feeling like the veil had been lifted, like all this weight came off, and I was just like goofy smile, I'm like, I felt like I took drugs just from this book, man. Did you ever have something like that?

• 9:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, for sure, for sure, that spiritual knowledge can be intoxicating, in a good way, in a good way, it's almost like detoxifying, but in the process of that, it feels like you get intoxicated first and then it's stripped away.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, spiritual knowledge does, spiritual knowledge is described to feeling like a consciousness shower, like bathing the consciousness, cleansing and healing and letting go of all of the other things, all the toxins, all the negative beliefs, all of the things that we've been holding on to for so long, all the false identities are stripped away, we almost get to see ourselves face to face after such a long time when we strip away and let go of all our false designations and roles that we've been playing.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Hmm, and what do you do, like?

• 10:10Jay Shetty?

  Wait, whose podcast?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I just got a question for you, I got a question for you. It's like, I don't know if it's like this for you, but for me, I will have the, like, that was one of them, on the plane, I'll have these like flashes of very high moments, high is like the best way I can explain, where it feels like, I've heard the word satori, is this, do you know this word, is like a flash of enlightenment?

• 10:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  And?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  What do you do with that after is like, is that, am I supposed to always feel like that? Cause it's almost like it ends, right? It's like I had that moment on the plane, but at some point that moment ended.

• 10:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  And I went back to a more normal or default state. And then you kind of like, like the default state less because you experienced this other thing.

• 11:00Jay Shetty?

  That's beautifully explained, man. Yeah, it's true, it's true. So what it's explained as in the Vedic literatures is shadow experiences. So a good example is when you're touring, let's say I came with you. I would get to experience everything like I was Mike. I'd get to be in your VIP space. If you took me as a friend, I'd get to be in your zone. I'd get to see things from your perspective. But I'm not Mike, I'm just experiencing the shadow of experiencing it through you. And in spiritual traditions, whether we're with an incredible teacher or a guru or with a book, that energy kind of is infectious and spills over onto us and we get that high.

• 11:41Jay Shetty?

  And then what we need to do is unpack it so that we can live that high continuously every single day. And what often happens with epiphanies or these moments is that we don't unpack them. We just let them be one-off experiences. But you can feel like that every single day if we choose to unpack and learn through that process of almost reverse engineering. Like what was that moment trying to teach me? What did I really gain from it? Like, why did that happen at that state? What was I doing right? And then you can feel that way again, but it's also there to give us-

• 12:15Speaker 01

  This is scary though.

• 12:16Jay Shetty?

  Go on.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  This is, this is the reason it's scary is because if you're right, this is what you should spend your life doing. But if you're wrong, if you can't feel that every day, if that's not possible, this is a good way to waste your life. And not only that, you like, could very easily slip into hating normalcy because you've experienced this flash and you think something's wrong with not being there all the time. And this is, I struggle with this because I go, oh yeah, well, let me unpack it. Let me do this work to get there and I can feel like that every day. But then part of me is like-

• 12:59Speaker 01

  What if there, what if you can't really feel like that? What if this is what it's supposed to be like now? You know, or just make peace with this?

• 13:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Well, what, yeah, and I, and I think it's both. I think it is both. I think having that flash, the fact that you've had that experience is proof to you that there is more.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:20Jay Shetty?

  It's proof to you that there is a greater purpose beyond our existence. There is greater meaning, there is greater fulfillment. And right now, you're totally right, our current state is this. So if we don't make peace with this, if we don't accept this, if we don't learn to navigate this and constantly live in the chasing mindset, then yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna feel depressed every single day. So that's what I was just saying earlier, that the process and the destination are the same.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 13:49Jay Shetty?

  It shouldn't be seen as separate. We see the epiphany as the destination or a milestone, when actually the process on a daily basis itself can be rewarding, you know?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:00Jay Shetty?

  It's like the creation of the song and the song. You can't really strip them away from each other, right?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Correct, correct. We went right for it, huh?

• 14:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  We're like five minutes in?

• 14:11Jay Shetty?

  I know. I love it. It's great. It's great, man. This is what makes this

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Hit the ground running.

• 14:17Jay Shetty?

  So beautiful. Yeah, I love it. You started interviewing me, though. You're, you're the one with all the insights.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  We, this is a, yeah, this is a, because I struggle with this.

• 14:26Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  This up and down, you know? And, you know, I'll go on retreat or something, or spend some time, like this summer, I spent some time in solitude at the monastery for like 12 days and it go really high. And then you come back in life and I get tripped up, you know, fight with my sister or something, you know, and and it's like, party wants to go back to the monastery where you could like control everything, but this isn't life, you know, always.

• 14:59Jay Shetty?

  And, and, and that's the beauty of it.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, dealing with the

• 15:02Jay Shetty?

  And that's the beauty of it, that when you come back into reality, you get an opportunity to

• 15:12Jay Shetty?

  Learn how to navigate it, taking that information, taking that insight, taking those experiences from the monastery, wherever you're taking them from, and then getting them to play out in life. That's part of the, that's part of the experience. I know that when I left being a monk, I actually feel I've had more reflections and realizations since leaving, because I've had to put into practice everything I learned than when I was a monk. Because when I was a monk, it was protected, it was.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  It was harder after, I presume, right?

• 15:41Jay Shetty?

  It was harder initially. It was harder initially. Yes, it was harder. But then it became more fulfilling, because I really had to dig deep. I really had to rethink, and I had to approach everything with a new, fresh set of eyes and experiences. So it's actually become more meaningful.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could. I'm not there.

• 16:03Jay Shetty?

  No, neither am I. It's a daily process. I'm not there either, man.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  This is like, so I was on, I was on this retreat, spent like 12 days alone. And I was like, all the way alone, I was in this little cabin on this monastery. You know, they drop the food off once a week in like a box, you know, and you pick. So you don't see anyone for a whole week. You know, I'm like meditating five to seven hours a day. And after like a week or so, I'll get to this point where my mind got quiet, quieter, you know? Where, you know, usually I look at a flower and my brain goes, so this is a rose. This is the last time I saw a rose. Da, da, da, da, da. This one isn't quite as pretty. Talking, talking, talking. And a few times on this retreat, I got to a point where I would hear

• 16:49Speaker 01

  a bird song, like a quiet mind. And it's just like crippling beautiful. Like I would start crying, you know, or see the moon without my mind saying anything. And like, you just can't even explain how beautiful it is. So then it's like, okay, I want to go home and like. Do that with people too. It's like, listen, but I can't do it. And like, when I talk with someone, my brain is going all the time, the time, the time. So it's like, yeah, it's like this integration.

• 17:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  You know?

• 17:22Jay Shetty?

  And it's natural because that space is carrying that energy. Because people for decades, I don't know about the particular monastery you went to, but people for decades have been practicing higher levels of consciousness, alternate levels of consciousness in that space. So that's carried. I always say that location has energy and time has memory. So the

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Location?

• 17:47Jay Shetty?

  Has energy and time has memory. So that location is carrying that energy. And the time that you spend there is carrying that memory with you. So now what it's about is being able to recreate that outside of that physical space. Because if it is an altered state of consciousness, you can carry it with you and create that state in a new space. Because it's not bound by physical boundaries.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 18:13Jay Shetty?

  So it takes time and I'm practicing it daily too. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm not coming at it as a point of being an expert at all. I'm coming from a always trying to create the state I want to be in.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:24Jay Shetty?

  Not accepting the state that is given to me.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  It's a real gift if you can listen to someone that way with a quiet mind. Because, yeah, usually when we're listening, we're actually talking in our head about what the other person is saying. And we're listening to our voice, that commentary as opposed to their voice. So when you can really listen in that deep way, it's a real gift to give to someone else. It's difficult to do. That's why it's such a gift, because it's rare, you know?

• 18:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  I did it once with my mom. I was like meditating and she walked in and I was It felt so good. Cause I could recognize the things that like usually would trip me up and I would get upset or judge her about and just really listening to what she was trying to say behind the words even, you know, it's like this beautiful moment, you know?

• 19:22Jay Shetty?

  Did she feel different as well?

• 19:24Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 19:24Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  It's so hard to tell. I've had both of these experiences where I've like been in one of these like flashes. There was ones in Hawaii. I was with a friend of mine and it was like, it was one of those moments, you know? We weren't even talking, we're just looking out over like this cliff is beautiful. And I remember I was like this and we getting each other a hug. And then later in the day, he was like, man, some crazy happened when we, we hugged right there. I felt this, he felt something. And I thought, oh, when I feel something, maybe other people are too. Another time I was with my girlfriend at the time and I had just meditated one day.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I'm like feeling like high and like loopy, you know, riding in the car and, and I was me, I was very quiet because I was like having this experience internally. And then later I talked to her about like two days later and she was like, yeah, I, I thought you were really mad at me and I was like, she was in a different place. She wasn't high with me. So I never know exactly what other people are feeling. I used to think I could, I used to think, oh, they're feeling what I'm feeling always, but I don't think so. Not all the time.

• 20:40Jay Shetty?

  It's harder, yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:41Jay Shetty?

  It is hard. It is hard. And I think that's the challenge that we have that when we've had a moment, an experience, our mind forces us to want to relive that experience rather than have a powerful new one. And the pain actually comes from always going to go back to where we were.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  It's an attachment.

• 21:01Jay Shetty?

  Forward to where we can, yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's actually where the pain comes from. The pain comes from wanting to have the same experience, not believing that there is one that can supersede that again in the future.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  And also, i- i- it's impossible to have an experience twice.

• 21:18Jay Shetty?

  Totally, hundred percent.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Just, you can't even do it.

• 21:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And it's just the trick of the mind.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, my mind's always doing that.

• 21:25Jay Shetty?

  It's just the trick of the mind. That's constantly trying to, yeah, whatever it is, not just spiritual experiences, any experience. Even if it's a material experience, your mind's tricking you to want to recreate it again and again and again. So we keep coming up with new ways of having the same experience.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  So here, here's a, here's a good question for you. I'm sorry, just, I'm just so curious. I know you're supposed to be asking questions.

• 21:46Jay Shetty?

  I've got so many good questions. Anyway, go on. This is fun.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  This seems to me to be like two kinds of teachers nowadays, when I think of like contemporary spiritual teachers. There's one school that says you can train your mind to think better thoughts, think more positively, get rid of like negative stories or limiting beliefs, et cetera. You can journal and meditate, do these things and cleanse the mind, make the mind more healthy. That's for school one. And then there's another school, I feel like, that says, nope, the mind is inherently dirty. And what you need to do is recognize that you're not your mind.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  And maybe it's both of those things, I don't know, together, but I have trouble because I feel like I have a toe here and a toe there. You know what I mean? It's tough because one day I'll be like, I'll notice myself thinking negative thoughts. And I think, oh, I need to stop doing that. Or do I just need to recognize that's what minds do?

• 22:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 22:55Jay Shetty?

  No, that's great.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  How do you think about that?

• 22:57Jay Shetty?

  That's an awesome question, man. I'm so glad. It is a brilliant question. So I look at it from the point of the Vedas or the Bhagavad Gita and that tradition, that school of thought, because that school of thought has given me in my research of Stoicism, in my research of all alternative ways of thinking, I've found a lot of good answers there. So the principle is suggested is this, that The mind, its function is to desire and want and will, right? That's the, that's the function of the mind. What's often missed out in any of these schools of thought is the position of the intelligence. So the mind is compared to a child and the intelligence is compared to an adult. And so we are not the mind, definitely, that's for sure.

• 23:40Jay Shetty?

  We are not the mind, we are consciousness beyond the mind. But there is an interaction with every thought between the mind and the intelligence. So for example, I'll paint a, paint a picture because it's easier. Let's say you've decided that you wanna go on a diet, right? Let's say you've decided you wanna go on a diet, you wanna eat healthy stuff. The mind sees a chocolate fudge cake. I'm picking that because I love chocolate fudge cakes. So the mind sees a chocolate fudge cake and the mind goes, I want that right now. I need to have that, like I need that chocolate fudge cake. And, and you think the chocolate fudge cake's looking at you saying, eat me, right? Like you think that. And so the mind's having this whole conversation. The mind thinks back to every time it's had chocolate fudge cake and how happy it feels when it has that. And you're thinking, I need to have this fudge cake, I need it.

• 24:25Jay Shetty?

  Then it's the role of the intelligence, based on how, how much you've strengthened your intelligence. Your intelligence will say to the mind, no, we wanna eat healthy. We wanna be healthy, we're gonna save that for cheat day. But if your intelligence is weak, your intelligence just falls over and goes, okay, let's just have the, you know? And so that's actually the interaction that's happening daily in our minds when we wake up in the morning. Your mind says, I wanna go to sleep, your intelligence says, I wanna wake up. Depending on how much, whichever one you've been feeding, whichever one you've been strengthening, that's the one that wins inside of you every single day. So that's one other school of thought to add to your school of thought.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  And how would you, how would you, one part of me goes, well, is intelligence just another part of the mind?

• 25:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's the more mature adult functioning part.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  But even that is not really us.

• 25:13Jay Shetty?

  It's not, it's, it's our ability to be able to use it to steer our life in a certain way. So the, the analogy that's given is of a driver in a car. Like when you have a car accident, sometimes we're like, oh, that car hit me. The car didn't hit you, it hit the car. So the car's like the body. The intelligence is like the engine and the, the system that you're using. The steering wheel is like the intelligence. And then you, the driver or the consciousness. So each part of it is separate, but you're using a different element of it to control the other part.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  And how do you think of personality in this?

• 25:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, personality is a mix of the mind and intelligence.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  But do you think in like who we are at our deepest level is is our personality part of that? It's like the personality part of the car is what I'm asking.

• 25:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 26:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  I think that, and I don't know, but I think that when I die, obviously, my body will expire, but I think my personality will expire.

• 26:13Jay Shetty?

  Correct, yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  But I will, some essence of me will keep going.

• 26:17Jay Shetty?

  I'm with you, man. I'm with you.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  But I remember saying to someone, I was like, man, I'll feel pretty bummed like if when I die, I'm still my personality. Like, I don't want to be Mike Posner anymore. Like with the same neuroses and the same, like, I want to leave.

• 26:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, for sure, man. I get you. We went straight in.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  All the way.

• 26:40Jay Shetty?

  We went all the way. I love it.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  I'll let you ask a question now.

• 26:44Jay Shetty?

  No. If you're still listening, I hope you're not scared. No, it's great. But I really wanted to talk about your new album. I genuinely did. I listened to it the other day.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening.

• 26:55Jay Shetty?

  And I have so many questions based on it. And they're great because they are all about life, death, and the world that we live in, which I love. Like, that's my fascination and fixation too, is figuring out our existence. And I feel like so many of your lyrics that I've picked out that I want to share with the audience, listening and watching today, I want to share. So I'm going to pick out a few things here. So here, I want to dive straight in. I picked out a few lyrics and I want to dissect them with you. So one of your lyrics says, "My heroes all die young. They hung themselves with fame." Right? I want to know who are some of your heroes and how did they hang themselves with fame? What does that mean?

• 27:36Speaker 01

  This is like, uh, my heroes have kind of changed, you know, as I've gotten older. But the heroes I'm talking about then, you know, it's like growing up, like the Kurt Cobain, Tupac Shakur, you know, not really J Dilla, but he died young as well. Not necessarily from being famous, but you know, these kind of guys, you know, that they're just incredible. They seem to burn really brightly for a short period of time. They don't fade out. They explode.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Those are the kind of guys I was referring to. But as I've gotten older, I've thought, why am I idolizing them? I should probably idolize, even if, even if they're like myths, or it's not real. It's like, I thought, it'd probably be better to idolize like Jesus, or like the Buddha. Right? Even if their like, stories are fake, or, or myths, or not entirely factual, like, there's no like flaws there. Like, that's a good nor- better north star. You know what I mean? Than like, but there is something just very, really intriguing about this kind of like, um, genius talent that self-destructs at times.

• 28:56Jay Shetty?

  When did you first start learning about like Jesus and Buddha? And when did they start becoming your role models and why? Or your heroes?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Later in my life, I mean, the last like, four, three, four, or five years. Yeah.

• 29:11Jay Shetty?

  Why was that? Why did that shift happen?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Actually, it was, I met this teacher named Ram Dass. You know Ram Dass? I had a friend whose mom was sick, and she was friends with Ram Dass. And they were gonna go visit him in Hawaii, but she died. And he called me and said, hey, look, I still wanna go on this trip. I want you to come with me, though. So I said, okay, I'm gonna come. And I went and, uh, we went to Ram Dass's house. And, you know, he's had like a stroke, so he has like a motorized chair. He came in the room. And I, I had read some of his stuff and listened to some of his lectures.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  And he said a bunch of words I'd heard him say already, you know? Like, cuz I, I, I knew his stuff. And, uh, well, he said one thing that stuck out. He said, you know, he said, all day long, you're, you're categorizing. You say, I, I love this and I hate this. You're doing that all day. He goes, it's much easier if you just love everything. You don't have to, then you don't have to categorize anymore. It's just easier. Takes less energy. And he sort of just like, he held this space. It was less about what he was saying, and more about like, he would look at us, these big eyes. And it felt like... We could have been serial killers, whatever.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  He just would have loved us this way. And I remember we walked out of his house. And this was one of those high moments. And maybe one of the first ones I had where I was like, almost like keeled over and start crying. I was just like looking around. I felt like I was in a new world and I felt like I was in love with all the stuff, like, like the rusty gate and the dirt on the ground. I just loved it all. It ended, you know, I felt like that the rest of the night and it ended. And I didn't feel like, you know, I didn't feel like, oh, I'm should pray to Ram Dass now. No, I felt like, oh, this is a guy who's been doing the work for however many years he's been doing the work.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  And I thought, I wanna be that for other people. This would be a good way to spend my life is if I could hold that kind of space.

• 31:34Jay Shetty?

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• 32:17Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

• 33:00Jay Shetty?

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• 33:35Speaker 01

  So it was one of these moments where I thought, oh, that is possible, you know? To be in a space like that, a mindset like that, that people can feel, like you could feel it, you know? So after that, I started listening more to his lectures, and I think he made a point like this in one of his lectures, which was, you know, if you read someone else's, like if you read my book on spirituality, you're gonna get all of the reasons that I am not enlightened. Does that make sense? But if you read something from an enlightened being, like the Gita or something like this, you just get that, you know? Which I, you know, I read everything, you know?

• 34:20Speaker 01

  But this is what he said, and it kind of makes sense to me, you know?

• 34:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's beautiful, man. Yeah, I remember that moment when I was 18 and I met the first monk I ever met. I had a very similar experience where my role model switched. It was the first time where I'd always looked up to celebrities and entrepreneurs and CEOs and influencers of any kind at that time when I was 18 years old. Then when I met a monk, that really shifted my journey and shifted how I was aspiring to be and to do. Because similarly to what you said, it kind of opened me up to a whole alternative path that I didn't know existed. So I can identify with that. And then at the end of that lyric, you say, "They hung themselves with fame." Tell me how you came to write that.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  This fame thing is funny. I'm sure you deal with it too. Maybe better than me, but uh... It's just so easy to get addicted to it, you know? I mean, still, like, to this day, you know? I went to the monastery, grew my beer, whatever, but I like when people like me, you know? And you could, you could just totally self-destruct. It's like a real addiction, you know? It's like you, people would do anything, especially when you get a taste of it. You'd do anything to get more of it, you know? And can kill yourself this way. People do, you know?

• 35:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  You know, the, the cause might be a, a overdose, something like this, but it's, it's that, you know? You know, like, my friend Avicii died this year. It's a weird vortex of fame thing to be in. You know, and I'm not like, really famous. I have like, some friends that are like, super, like, like, I can, I walked in here, you know, like, nowhere. If someone recognized me, it's like, one person, I can like, talk to them for a second, and I could go on with my day, you know? I have friends, you know, they, they can't go in public, they get like, mobbed. It's not like that for me, which I like. It's just a weird, you get into a weird, I feel it on tour.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  On tour, because each night, I'm playing the show, people are there.

• 36:40Jay Shetty?

  Just for you.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  For me, you know? So in that building, I'm like, super famous, you know? And, and then when I go on, back on the tour bus, everyone that I'm living with works for me, which is a weird, it's just weird. It's not real life. And then I, I get used to it, and I'll go out of that vortex and expect everyone to like, be waiting on me and this kind of thing. And it's like, whoa, no, no, that's not reality, you know?

• 37:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I wanna, I wanna dive into that thought that you were saying about liking being liked. Like, we all like being liked. Is that a bad thing? Is it a good thing? How do you, how, and this whole process you're talking about of, of fame? How have you worked through it? How have you seen your friends work through it successfully? Like, what have you found? What have you learned? I know there's no perfect antidote.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Sure. The first thing that pops up is, I think, is probably a survival thing, right? You know, if you're liked by the people around you, less likely to be killed by them, you know? Yeah. It makes sense that we like being liked, if it indeed is a universal thing, which I think it pretty much is. And I'll tell you the wrong way, that I've tried dealing with it, and I see other people doing this all the time, from afar and from close, which is, I will try to prove my autonomy by doing the opposite of what I know you like.

• 38:21Jay Shetty?

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• 39:06Jay Shetty?

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• 39:46Speaker 02

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• 39:54Speaker 03

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• 40:04Speaker 02

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• 40:11Speaker 04

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• 40:20Speaker 02

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• 40:25Speaker 01

  So there was a point in my career like two, three years ago where I thought, everyone knows me this one way, I'm gonna do the opposite.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  So I feel like I can, I'm still my own guy. I'm making my own decisions. I'm not pandering to other people. So I remember I stopped.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I, like, I was eating every other day and I lost 30 pounds. And I was already a healthy weight when I started, so I was really skinny. And I dyed my hair green. I had a green mullet. And I was doing photo shoots where I was wearing like makeup and women's clothes. And there's nothing wrong with that. They actually look pretty cool. But it wasn't, the reason was messed up that I was doing it. Not the, not the actual thing. Some of the photos are very beautiful and this kind of thing. And the reason was

• 41:23Speaker 01

  I was doing the opposite

• 41:27Speaker 01

  to prove to myself, hey, I'm, I'm not, I'm not attached to your opinion. But if you really think about it, I'm still very much attached to your opinion. Your opinion is still dictating what I'm doing, even though it's the opposite of it. Instead of just me just being me. So I don't know if I explained that very well, but. Explained it really well. I, I see that all the time with musicians, artists, and you know, just people in general, where they'll be going one way and they feel themselves becoming attached to other people's approval. And so they flip 180.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  To prove themselves that they're unattached, but this, this is actually still just another form of attachment.

• 42:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. The Gita says attachment and aversion are two sides of the same coin. So that's totally right. When you're trying to be averse, you're trying to be opposite all of a sudden.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:23Jay Shetty?

  But it's still an attachment.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 42:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  The Gita says it in one line.

• 42:28Jay Shetty?

  You explained it beautifully.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 42:31Jay Shetty?

  No, no, but you explained it beautifully.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 42:33Jay Shetty?

  It's a great, it's a great point. I, I never even thought of it like that. I never realized that that's how a lot of people try and deal with it. That's an interesting observation. I didn't know that.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think, I'm still figuring it out. One way I think that really helps is just the way I spend my time in a day. You know, take time to meditate each day, exercise, just like with a couple of friends, you know, play basketball, we go to the gym. And then you just get this time away where you're not even thinking about any of these things. And you can kind of revisit them with a little more perspective.

• 43:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  And you know, the other thing is I take like tons of time off between albums.

• 43:21Jay Shetty?

  Two years.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, where I, you know, I'm writing, but I'm also like experimenting, exploring, going to the monastery or, you know, I did like a Vipassana retreat this summer. Just, just playing around with different modes of consciousness and trying to tap into these different things, reading different books and, you know, hopefully give a little more perspective. I know that's not a super sexy answer, but I don't know if there is one.

• 43:47Jay Shetty?

  That was a great answer.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think there is one for that.

• 43:50Jay Shetty?

  When I'm doing these podcasts with everyone listening, I'm not looking for the right answer or a perfect answer or a sexy answer. I'm looking for original, unique you answers, like observing answers and your observations are valuable to me. Your observations of your fame, the fame of others is interesting to me. And I think it's interesting to everyone listening because that's how we start learning about how different observations can help us as opposed to you saying, here's my three-step formula for how to deal with fame, which, you know, some people have that, that's cool, but I get more fascinated by observations.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:26Jay Shetty?

  So I, I love it. It was sexy to me.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 44:30Jay Shetty?

  This next to me, I'm gonna move on to the next song that I put out lyric on because I think there's just so many and I and I want to, I have to say that the music on this album is you being the same, like when I listen to it, it made me want to focus and be curious and be an explorer of the music. It wasn't just enjoyable, I had to be more curious as a listener and I enjoyed that process because it required more from me. And and that's powerful, that's powerful when you feel like intrigued to listen more. So when I was doing that, I picked out this line, another lyric. I worked the last 10 years, I'm a multimillionaire and it's supposed to all be good and it's not all good, right?

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Think you took out an expletive.

• 45:16Jay Shetty?

  I think I did, I think I did. I haven't sworn since I was 16 years old, it's hard.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 45:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  That's beautiful, man. For a while I had a rubber band on my wrist and I and it worked, every time I cursed, I'd snap myself and then I started cursing and I took it off.

• 45:34Jay Shetty?

  I took it out.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  No, no, it's great, it's great.

• 45:36Jay Shetty?

  But but here you say that, so the question I have here is, where do you think that picture of success comes from? Because you're saying that you've you've achieved everything that the world would have deemed, like if you were 10 years old and someone told you you'd have all of this now that you're 30, right? You'd think that that would...

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly, right? We both would have thought that.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  I'm done.

• 45:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're done, but it's not. So where did that, where, and I really wanna talk about that, where do we think that ideas come from, like where was that put into our psychology?

• 46:05Speaker 01

  I don't know, because I remember my parents saying things like, money doesn't buy you happiness, you know, which is a cliche for a reason, that most cliches are cliche because they're probably in some way true. And I remember hearing people tell me this and I'm thinking...

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Nodding my head and, but in my head going, you just didn't make enough.

• 46:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  I'm gonna make more than you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take it to another level. And this is a never-ending chase, you know, and, and actually, when you achieve your goals, can be, in some ways, can be more depressing than not achieving them, because you can achieve them and realize, hey, I thought this was actually gonna solve like, all the problems in my life, I thought my insecurities would disappear and, and in my case, like, you know, I got a record deal, I had like, the sports car and the house in the Hollywood Hills, not, the whole thing.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  I'm sitting there and I realized that my experience of life, moment to moment, is the same. I have all the same insecurities. I'm not like, a different person, I'm not any happier, I'm not, actually, I don't think sad or either. But it's the same. And it's the disillusionment that came with thinking there was this magic bullet, finding the magic bullet, and then it not working, and going, oh shoot, now what? And now I think is, is what the next chapters of my life has been about, is the now what, you know?

• 47:52Speaker 01

  And there, there seem to be some promising leads on this path, you know? Like we were talking about earlier.

• 47:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 48:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I've loved missions more than goals for so long.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Explain the difference to you.

• 48:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so the difference to me is, goals are temporary milestones. A mission is a lifelong project. A mission is eternal, a goal is temporary. So a goal is, I wanna be a multimillionaire. Reached. Next goal, I wanna be a billionaire. Reached. Now we have trillionaires, right? Jeff Bezos is gonna be the first trillionaire. So trillionaire, right? Whatever it is, like, that's a goal. It's temporary. It it moves. It's ephemeral. Whereas a mission is something you're committed to on a day to day. A goal is something you experience every so often as a milestone. A mission is something that you can experience every single day because it's a path. It's a lifestyle.

• 48:51Jay Shetty?

  It's a cause you're committed to, something that you've you feel responsible for, something that you feel like you're trying to drive a change or a cultural shift, which takes longer. What's an example of a mission? So even if we take, let's take Martin Luther King, right? So his mission of wanting everyone to be treated by the content of the character and not the color of their skin, like, that's a mission. Like, you don't just solve that overnight. Like, that's something that he wanted to implant into humanity. And that can go beyond color. That can go beyond gender. It needs to, it needs to, that kind of thought process of loving and trusting and being compassionate

• 49:31Jay Shetty?

  and empathetic to all people is something that goes way beyond, do we have independence? Or do we have a goal? Or did we get the right policy in place? Which is so temporary and doesn't necessarily push a shift. Even for myself, like, my mission that I've always stated very clearly, clearly, is making wisdom go viral. It's like, how do I make wisdom that has been very hidden away or has only been accessible to people who have gone to monasteries, et cetera? How do I make that really accessible to everyone in the world? That's a mission. I I've got to do that every day. There's no goal. There's no like, I'm never gonna have a button that says, oh, eight billion people now have wisdom. Like, you know, it's not a, it's not a number. Yeah. Uh, so anyway, that's how I see the difference.

• 50:15Jay Shetty?

  But I love what you're saying and I agree with you. That's why I'm, I think, shifting to a mission versus a goal life still keeps you motivated, still keeps you meaningful. And it moves away from numbers to emotions. Hmm. You know? But anyway, that's just my thoughts. Yeah. Good thoughts, man. Some of my thoughts. Those are good thoughts. Some of my thoughts. Uh, you asked a question in one of the songs, do you ever get tired being perfect?

• 50:41Jay Shetty?

  Right? And my big question around this is, what is perfection? Does it exist? And how do you define perfect? Like, how do you see perfection? The meaning of perfection having changed in the world that we live in today?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  I think what I was-

• 50:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, what were you hinting at?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  I think, I don't always know what I'm hinting at. It's kind of like, sometimes the thing pops in the head and I just put it down.

• 51:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  And almost like it's not me, you know?

• 51:07Jay Shetty?

  Oh, really? That's how sometimes the songs come out?

• 51:10Speaker 01

  It doesn't feel like I'm possessed or anything, but it's like, look, you know, you have an inspired thought or a good thought. Do you really get credit for that? Because it's not like you designed the thought. That's the whole point of inspiration is like, it came-

• 51:24Jay Shetty?

  To you.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  It came. And so, you know, when I write a song, it's like, I don't know if I really get credit for that. It just popped in my head and I basically repeated what I heard. You know?

• 51:39Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  If I write a crappy song, same thing. I don't have to, I don't get blamed for it. But, so, yeah, it's not always cerebral. But when I hear that back, or, you know, what I think is, people that are trying to have the veil of perfection, which I, you know, I've been one of those people and I am at times still.

• 52:01Jay Shetty?

  All of us.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you ever get tired of doing that? Do you ever get tired of like, trying to convince everyone that you have it all figured out? You know? That's what I meant.

• 52:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  I think.

• 52:13Jay Shetty?

  And I think we do get tired.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  It's exhausting. It's exhausting. I had a friend, actually, we have a friend in common, in queue.

• 52:20Jay Shetty?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  We were talking to him because we do, him and I do this, where we go out in social situation and there's some little bit of a persona I'll take on. You know, even I'm just at a party or something. I'm doing something. I'm like, trying to be. And it's very close to me, but it's not quite me. And it's not always detectable, even to me at the time. But the difference is, it's exhausting. And I'll leave a social interaction like, ah.

• 52:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Whereas I believe if you're being authentic and you're there, like in the Ram Dass interaction, like that, that was rejuvenating as opposed to exhausting.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:09Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  You ever felt that exhaustion?

• 53:11Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:12Jay Shetty?

  I I compare it to I compare it to method acting. It's like being a method actor where you've so engrossed in a role that you're trying to play that you forget who you are. And and you're just playing that role the whole time. You're basically acting.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:26Jay Shetty?

  Just acting, just actors. Yeah, no, absolutely. No, I've I've done that before tons and and it's been the same for me. I think that's a great way you've put it. It's exhausting, that's number one. And the second thing is you start playing it so well that you forget who you are.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:40Jay Shetty?

  So you think it's your reality.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Right. And this, I think, is compounded going back by fame. Because with fame, like, I think that's a pretty universal thing, right? What we just talked about. It gets compounded by fame because not only are you doing an act that you think is you, other people now have an expectation of an act.

• 54:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  And you don't want to disappoint them. So this pressure is is um exacerbated.

• 54:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're spot on. It's compounded by the fact that all these people are expecting you to show up as that person.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 54:20Jay Shetty?

  And now you have to show up as that person, even if you don't feel like that person today.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 54:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's like having to put on a Halloween suit every day.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:29Jay Shetty?

  As in like having to put on a costume.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  It's so funny, like, I go through so many ebbs and flows every day. And I don't know if this is like normal other people, but like, look, every afternoon I get kind of depressed. Every single one, like, you like, I feel it already, like, I'll get a little tired, you know? It's like, huh, you know? It's like in the mornings, like, when I first wake up, I'm like, kind of sluggish. Then I'll meditate, I'll exercise, and then I'm up, you know? And I feel like kind of high in the morning. And it's like this all the time. And there's all these colors and emotions and and shades of colors of of how I feel each day. And then I'll have like one song of the thousands of songs I write that become super famous.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  That's a glimpse, you know, just like a snapshot of one of those moments.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  And then there's the expectation that that's you. You know, it's like 11, 13, three years ago on a Tuesday, that's you. It's like, no, that that's me at 11, 13, three years ago. That's who I was right then.

• 55:37Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  But this is me, you know?

• 55:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I think it's great. And I think you just repeating that and saying that is putting that message more out into the world for everyone else who's listening to actually get that message too. That let's not be defined by just that one glimpse of our life, whether it's good or bad even. Right? Because we just let ourselves be.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, a human being is impossibly, it's just impossibly complex. And beautiful. At the same, you know, this is the moment this summer, I was thinking about how like the difference between what's real and what's not. You know, like the microphone here, this is real. I would say for, just to say a good discussion, let's say this is real, like it exists, reality, I can touch it, it's there. And I was on retreat and I was thinking, I have this map, like map of in my head, like where I've, what I've accomplished, what I want to accomplish, it's like a trajectory.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  But then I thought, that map is not real. Cause it doesn't exist anywhere but in my thoughts, like I just made it up.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  In the same way that that is not real, who I think I am, which to me was like my facts of my personal history, my name, my occupation, my age, mixed with like memories of emotions that I have, like emotional reactions, mixed with like honestly archetype, characters from movies or books. All that mashed up, that's like, that's who I am, that's like my personality, that's who I am in my head. And I thought. That's not real either. It literally does not exist. And other people have an idea of who I am, but it's not even the same one that I have in my head.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  And it's just, yeah, like I was spending so much energy, like curating this thing in my head and like making it look perfect. But A, no one else sees it. B, it's not there. It's not a real thing, you know? It's just so silly. We do that like all day long. Like I have to do this or accomplish this or act in a certain way in order to keep this idea of myself, this picture of myself that I have looking beautiful or add some stroke to it. But it's not, it's not there.

• 58:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, it's true. That you reminded me of literally my favorite quote. I say this everywhere because it's such an inspiration for so much of my work. In 1902, a sociologist named Cooley said that today, I'm not what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:39Jay Shetty?

  So we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. Meaning if I think Mike thinks I'm happy, then I feel happy. And if I think Mike thinks I'm weak, then I'll feel weak. So we're basing how we feel about ourselves on how we think others feel about us. And that's that picture you're constantly trying to mold in your mind, constantly like, what does this person think? Okay, what do they think? What do I think? How do I, what do I add to this? And then we get lost trying to build this. And it wasn't even real in the first place.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:10Jay Shetty?

  It was just a perception of a perception.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  You know, a funny flip on this is, or addition perhaps, is what I believe is going on in your head is a function of what's going on in my head. Does this make sense?

• 59:23Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  So what I suspect you're thinking about is really just the crap I think about because that's all I have. I've never been in anyone else's head. I've only been in my head. I know my thoughts. So I assume you're having some of these kind of thoughts. I use the example of, of weight. Like because I, when I stopped eating, I had this, like I would get hung up on weight. I was always looking at people's weight all the time, obsessing over it. And I thought, oh, people think I look fat or this way. And I realized they're not thinking that's what I think they're thinking. And what I think they're thinking is based on what I think.

• 1:00:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  And so it's like, just to simplify it, it's like, in order to not feel judged, judge less.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Because then, you know, if you're not walking around judging people, you'll assume, you won't assume they're judging you. That makes sense.

• 1:00:22Jay Shetty?

  I love that. That's beautiful. In order to not feel judged, judge less.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. It's nice. It's great advice. That's great advice. That's, yeah, that's a great flip. I like it. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Now, I want to talk about this because I think it's important for the album that we're talking about right now. Like, you lost someone really important to you last year, your father. There's, you know, someone obviously extremely special to you. How's that affected, built, created this album? How's that, how have you been processing that?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  A lot of different ways, in, in, in some ways real explicit, in other ways, very ambiguous. And I'm sure in some ways I don't even see or understand yet. But, look, you, you know, I had an amazing father for 29 years. So the first thing is like, when you, when you have loss, you had to have at first had in order to even feel loss. So very just like gently and subtly, you can go from this like feeling of being cheated or something like this to just having gratitude for the thing being there in the first place.

• 1:01:36Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  And be, you know, look, I'm sure you do, and I, I certainly do. You know, I have a lot of friends I grew up with in Detroit and Southfield that either never knew their dad or dad wasn't in their life the way mine was. And it almost feels like silly to me to be too sad because I had this amazing gift. And how can I complain about having something awesome for 29 years and say, hey, I should have had it 30, or I should have had it 31. Like, nah, man, you don't get to decide that.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  That's not for you to decide. So I deal with it in different ways. This is how I feel on this couch. There are other times where I'll be playing my guitar alone in the hotel and I'll start crying.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  And I miss him and I'll go, dang, he's really gone. And there are other times where I'll be meditating or I'll be performing and I feel, I swear I can like feel him around. It feels like an energy, such like a buzzword, but it feels like, it's not like he's standing there in his body. It just feels like his, and it's a weird thing to talk about. No good way to talk about it, but.

• 1:02:46Jay Shetty?

  It's not weird to him.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like I could, I could feel him around. He's an energy. And there's another part of death, which is quite a beautiful reminder for you to get your life together. Because the real thing about death that people get tripped up on is it reminds you, you're gonna die.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  And this can be a really good thing to get that reminder because it puts in perspective what really matters. Hey, am I doing, you know, a lot of us have a list of things that we, we wanna do when we're done doing what we think we have to do. And, you know, when my dad died, I was like, I'm next. Yeah, I look just like that guy. You know, when I look at a picture of him, he's 30. It's like, it's me, you know? So the next guy, you know, is me. And I started looking back at this list of stuff that I actually wanna do and start doing it, you know, start doing it.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  And obviously, you know, my album is a lot. He's on my album, you know, recordings of us talking. So he influenced my music this way, in a big way, this record. And so, yeah, there's, it's just a lot. It's a lot, you know, it's implicit and explicit ways. He's a, he's a great guy, great man. You know, the older I get, the more I understand how beautiful of a man he was. You know, when I think about, or I see friends that like have families or kids and really seeing what that actually entails. It's a lot. I think about, you know, when I was on the basketball team in high school and I never played.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  I was really short and I just sat on the bench. He would be at every single game. He'd be the first parent there. I remember one time he said, Mike, I'm really sorry. He was an attorney. He said, I have a case. I can't move it. I'm gonna miss the game. I remember thinking like, all good, man. I don't play anyways. I don't know if you noticed, but like, I just sit there and uh, I remember it was an away game. This was like in Pontiac, which is, you know, thirty four minutes away. Our bus pulled up. We get off the bus like, we're there like an hour too early to warm up. And there's one guy in the stands. It's my dad. He's like, I moved the case, you know, like I didn't.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  He was just always there. He always showed up, you know? We're not a perfect man. No one is. But yeah, I love that. I love that guy, man, forever. He was funny too, man. He was a goofball, man. Silly guy and beautiful. I just, this is loving, loving, you know?

• 1:05:41Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful, man. Thank you so much for sharing so openly and that's, you know, for anyone who's ever lost anyone, I'm sure something that you've said here today is gonna help them too.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and another thing, I've spoken, there's a guy I know who's become a friend. He's a hospice chaplain. So he helps people die and helps families. And he says, the one thing you can count on grief to do is to surprise you. So often, we feel something, you know, when we have these loss. And the biggest question is like, is this right? Should I be feeling this way? And the answer is, there's no right. Grief is surprising, it's gonna hit you when you're not suspecting it. Sometimes longer, you know, people expect, oh, it's been a year.

• 1:06:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  You're good, you know, but it's not how it works. It's not how it works. And for me, I actually wasn't even sad when my dad died. I thought, man, I have my dad. It was beautiful. He wasn't in pain. All my family's here, we're having this beautiful funeral, we're celebrating his life. I didn't cry, I was smiling. That's how, that's, it's not right, right or wrong, it's just how I felt, you know? Later, my mom was playing, eight months later, she's playing like, checking her voicemail, you know, and she's going through the, and when she gets to one of my dad, when he's alive, when he was sick, I lost it. I was weeping, like a baby, I started weeping. It's not right or wrong, it's just, we each have our own path with grief, you know?

• 1:07:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think it's so, it's so easy that with a physical scar, you like, watch it heal. You can see it. You know that you're applying something on it that's getting it healed, that's getting a scar on it, etc. You can see the wound getting covered and then it disappears, but emotionally, it's almost like, oh yeah, it's been a month. You must be better now, but it's, you know, you can't see it. And so the only person who's experiencing it in different ways all the time is you, yourself. And that healing process is totally unique, totally different for each person. And you can't put a time limit on it, or you can't put a expectation on it. But because we can't see it, we kind of just pretend like it's not there.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we make up a schedule. Hey, it's been a year, I should be over this, you know?

• 1:08:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. Not based on anything.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, man, I really appreciate it.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  No problem.

• 1:08:12Jay Shetty?

  And your dad sounds amazing.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  He's a good guy.

• 1:08:14Jay Shetty?

  I'm so happy to hear you celebrate his incredibleness. You know, for the time that you had. It's so beautiful to hear that, man. So beautiful to hear that. Thank you.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:08:26Jay Shetty?

  And now you're at this place where you're thirty and you talk about being stuck in the middle on your album.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  That's how I feel, right?

• 1:08:34Jay Shetty?

  And I feel like we've talked a lot about getting to thirty and what's happened before and the songs and the fame and the money and all of this. Like, when you're saying you're stuck in the middle, how is your perspective currently on the next? Not, I'm not even gonna go too far, but on the next like twelve months, the next, you know, how, what is your perspective? What's changed? Where is that stuck in the middle song inspired by?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  It was a funny thing is like a lot of times songs, they'll come before I actually live them. The song come first and then I live the, live out the song after, sometimes. This is how it is with Stuck in the Middle. The last verse of this song is, "People love the old me, I don't know where he's gone. Too tired to be famous, too vain to be unknown." This is how I feel, like I have a toe in both, like, like I know that, I know becoming more famous or more successful is not really gonna change my life. But there's part of me still that like, I really want like, have more hit songs and this, this kind of thing. It's like, the grip has been loosened, but my hand's still on it.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  And then there's this other part of me that like, doesn't care. It's like, you know, off at the monastery or in like, I, you know what I mean? It's like, it's the polar opposites. It's like, pop star, like monastery. It's like, one day I'm like at the Grammys, other day I'm like there, you know? It's like, that's where like, and stuck in the middle.

• 1:10:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  But maybe, my friend said, maybe you're not stuck, maybe you're just in the middle.

• 1:10:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  That's where you're supposed to be, you know?

• 1:10:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I can relate to that. I, I love paradoxes. I, I myself feel like a paradox. I felt like a paradox my whole life. I'm right in the middle too. I, I lived as a monk and now I do media and I feel so much. But what I do know is that in my own way, I'm refining my intentions on a daily basis, aspiring to use any platform I have for something higher than myself. Because I know myself that-

• 1:10:44Jay Shetty?

  After having been a monk for three years and lived in a monastery and ashram for three years, I didn't feel like I was fulfilling my purpose either because I wanted to really give what I learned. And I had this desire to share it because I can't get away with who I am as a person. I've always been driven. I've always been motivated. I've always been someone who wants to share, etc. So I can't get away from that artificially. And if I do, I'll only end up feeling useless. And then at the other end, I also know that I have to be wary that I don't get too caught up in the world because then I can lose that monk. And so for me, I couldn't agree with you more. I think being in the middle is such a beautiful place to be. It requires a ton more work. And that's our challenge.

• 1:11:28Jay Shetty?

  Like, that's how I see it. Like, you're reminding me of my own challenge to myself that when you want to operate at either end, ignorance is bliss, or wisdom is bliss. And then when you're trying to be in both, you're like in the middle, you're having to, you know, make sense? Does that make any sense?

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  Yes, it does. Ignorance is bliss when you're like full in the world, like full hedonistic. Wisdom's bliss, you're full in the monastery. And like, having both those in your life, integrated is...

• 1:11:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's the real work.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  No small task.

• 1:12:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we're like setting ourselves up for the hardest thing. I'm gonna have to learn from you.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  No, bro. No, bro. I'm here to learn from you. That's why I was trying to hijack your interview and ask you all the questions, man.

• 1:12:13Jay Shetty?

  Oh, man, you've given like, what I'm listening to you, like this, by the way, for everyone who's listening, when you listen to this album, which I really, really recommend that you do, because when I was listening to it, I was exploring. Like, if you're fascinated by what Mike's saying on the podcast right now, if you're watching this, hearing this, when you listen to the album, you'll be able to see it mirror across. It's such a profound piece of work.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:12:36Jay Shetty?

  It's profound. Like, that's the right way to put it. And, and yeah, if you're a fan of Mike, or if you've, I'm sure you've heard some of his stuff. If you haven't, this is, this is the stuff that, you know, I want you to listen to.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:12:49Jay Shetty?

  But yeah.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  We spend a lot of time, yeah, it's weird making these albums, like, perhaps like a dying form of art, the album, because people don't as much listen to them through.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  But I sort of don't care because I do listen albums through and I love albums. And so we spend like months on transitions in song order and transitions. A lot of my songs will connect, you know, the you'll see the the marker go from like track four to track five, but the music doesn't, there's no change, you know, there's no like break. And so, yeah, we spent like a lot of time on that, you know, it's like, I don't know if anyone's gonna listen.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did.

• 1:13:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I still remember the feeling of looking forward to an album coming out. And like going to buy the the CD and like opening up the pack and like I I still love listening to albums because the songs that you hear on the radio are never anyone's best songs, in my opinion. Like they're they're a good starting point, but they're like the taster.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:57Jay Shetty?

  You know, they're like the free free meal, but it's like you want you want the you want the full experience. And with your process is different, right? Like you don't put a single out, put a single out, put a single out and test. You kind of build the whole thing because you don't want to be affected by it. That's what I read from your work when I was doing my research.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't think it's wrong to do it this way. I have a friends, you know, they they will they'll make, you know, half the album, they'll put a single out. And if and they'll they'll see what people say about it and then they'll finish the album get with that information. I don't like this way. I like to do the whole thing just and I don't let anyone hear it. Except for my friends that are working on it, my manager doesn't hear it. No one at the record label hears it, no one, until I make this thing how I want, how I I think is great. And then I'll play it for a few friends I trust, get feedback, I'll go from there.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  If the feedback hits me in that tender place where I know that it's right, I'll address it. And if it not, if I think they're wrong in my heart, I don't address it. And then I go to record label and say, here's my album, it's done.

• 1:15:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  And that's it, it's done.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  It's awesome, man.

• 1:15:18Jay Shetty?

  I've got the five big questions for you that I always

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Woo!

• 1:15:22Jay Shetty?

  Talk about. I want to hear you play as well, but these are five big questions. So the first big question is, what's the best thing you've ever let go of?

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  Best thing I've ever let go of?

• 1:15:34Jay Shetty?

  That you're happiest about letting go of?

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:15:38Jay Shetty?

  Cause you've really cleansed, you've healed, you're work, you're doing the work, so.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  I would say, there's been a few times where I, I've moved into my van. Not because I had fallen on hard times because I felt like my possessions were weighing me down. So like, yeah, I had this, I owned a house in the Hollywood Hills and I had a Porsche sports car and I had like more sneakers than I even knew I had. And I think I always moved to my van. I bought this like little conversion van and I put this stuff like clothes in it that I needed in there, in my guitar. And it doesn't fit very much and the rest I just, I donated. So I would say all that stuff.

• 1:16:26Jay Shetty?

  Well.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  Let go of it, man. And I just felt lighter.

• 1:16:30Jay Shetty?

  Nice.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:32Jay Shetty?

  It's awesome, man. Question number two. I saw that on your website, you have a hate mail section.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:39Jay Shetty?

  Tell me how that all came about and how you deal with criticism.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  I copied this from my friend Amanda Palmer.

• 1:16:45Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Who's an amazing artist and writer. For me, it's just a good way to like, when I was on social media, now I have someone post for me.

• 1:16:56Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  I'll write the post and then they do it, cause I try not to read the comments. But before I used to be on there, and I probably will have to go back to, just to, cause I like having dialogue with my listeners. But involved with that is reading some pretty negative things about yourself. And before, it just really hurt my feelings. But then I started amassing them and I made this section on my website called hate mail and I would repost. And suddenly the same message that seemed really mean, hurtful, it became funny.

• 1:17:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  They were just became funny and I'd like read them out loud with my mom and we'd both just be cracking up, you know?

• 1:17:39Jay Shetty?

  It reminds me of the last scene of Eight Mile when Eminem goes and shares all the bad stuff he already knows about himself.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he said, "Tell these people something they don't know about me. They don't already know about me, right?"

• 1:17:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:52Jay Shetty?

  And it's like, when you've done that, it's like no one else has got anything left to say.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:17:56Jay Shetty?

  Because you've already said it.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:17:58Jay Shetty?

  I love that, man. Okay, question number three. The best advice you've ever received? The first one that comes to mind.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Probably that Ram Dass advice.

• 1:18:07Jay Shetty?

  I liked it.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  Just love everything. It's way easier. It's way easier. Don't, don't, I'm repeating it, but you know, all day long, you know, it's just, it's like, I like this, I don't like this. I love this, I hate that. Just love everything. It's easier. It's less exhausting.

• 1:18:27Jay Shetty?

  I love it. I love that too. Thanks for repeating it. Where do you feel change in the world is gonna come from? Individually, collectively, positive change, where is it gonna come from?

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  There has to be an internal shift in everyone individually. I mean, look, all of us know, like, war is bad, and we know, like, we need to do more for the environment, and we know the planet's getting warmer, but our action is not lined up with our knowledge, right? It's the same thing. It's like, everyone knows how to lose weight. Everyone knows. Like, they know, everyone knows what foods are unhealthy, exercise more, but still, many people with that knowledge do not lose weight even though they want to. So, people have,

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  there has to be a shift in the, I think, like, what we talk opened up about, you know, that we are not our minds. You know, we are more than our minds. How to deal with minds that have crazy thoughts and have thoughts that don't serve us and don't serve us as a species either. And there's to be a shift to where we actually see our species as a collective. You know, it's like, you know, I see the thing about someone starving in Africa and it's like...

• 1:19:59Speaker 05

  I understand it's bad, but people don't people don't stop what they're doing. There's still a degree of apathy there. So, and I think this is a movie in the right direction. I think we're getting there. But not yet.

• 1:20:14Jay Shetty?

  That's a great answer, man. And final question, would you like to play us something?

• 1:20:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:20:20Jay Shetty?

  Have a

• 1:20:21Speaker 05

  Do you have a request?

• 1:20:21Jay Shetty?

  Have a special. No, you, no, your inspiration. I always go with your inspiration. I don't wanna think about what I think you're thinking about playing, so I'm gonna let you go with your inspiration.

• 1:20:33Jay Shetty?

  Your answers are inspirational, so I'm excited for this. I respect you. Okay.

• 1:20:57Speaker 05

  Perfume on my shirt.

• 1:21:02Speaker 05

  Puts me in the past.

• 1:21:06Speaker 05

  Too tough to be without her. But too afraid to ask.

• 1:21:18Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:21:28Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:21:34Speaker 05

  Too young to settle down.

• 1:21:39Speaker 05

  Too old to be in bars.

• 1:21:43Speaker 05

  It's hard to take it easy.

• 1:21:48Speaker 05

  It's easy to be hard.

• 1:21:55Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:22:05Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:22:14Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the mid- woo.

• 1:22:23Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:22:31Speaker 05

  Forgive me, I am building my ship as it sells. How do I become who I wanna be while still remaining myself?

• 1:22:42Speaker 05

  People love the old me.

• 1:22:47Speaker 05

  I don't know where he's gone.

• 1:22:51Speaker 05

  Too tired to be famous.

• 1:22:56Speaker 05

  Too vain to be unknown.

• 1:23:03Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:23:12Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:23:21Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the mid- woo.

• 1:23:30Speaker 05

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:23:42Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's amazing, man.

• 1:23:44Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:23:45Jay Shetty?

  You're creating from such a deep place, man.

• 1:23:48Speaker 05

  Thank you, man.

• 1:23:48Jay Shetty?

  I'm being serious.

• 1:23:49Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:23:50Jay Shetty?

  I'm excited to... It's fitting, that's... I love that song and it's fitting that... I genuinely think that if you're able to use this incredible platform that you've already achieved and you're able to grow it only for the sole purpose of wanting to learn more and share powerful messages with the world, you're gonna have an incredible impact on people's lives, man. At a scale that no one else can. It's gonna be insane. Because you're really doing the work and I can, I can feel it, I can see it. And, and I, I want people to experience that. And I feel like you've been given this incredible, unique talent. Not only have you got incredible voice, not only are you such a talented artist,

• 1:24:35Jay Shetty?

  but you've spent time doing the work.

• 1:24:38Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:24:38Jay Shetty?

  And that's gonna transpire into people's lives if you just keep doing it, man. In the middle. That's just there.

• 1:24:44Speaker 05

  In the middle.

• 1:24:45Jay Shetty?

  In the middle.

• 1:24:45Speaker 05

  Not stuck.

• 1:24:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 05

  Just in, in the pocket.

• 1:24:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, in the middle, man.

• 1:24:49Speaker 05

  You wanna hear another song?

• 1:24:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, go for it. I'm loving this one. It's beautiful. Wanna hear another one, right?

• 1:24:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 1:25:04Speaker 05

  Somebody told me God is simply what we don't know. I saw a butterfly, it was dead, but it was gorgeous. And all the robots are just walking down the sidewalk. Kings of the little empires that they made us. And I'm wide open.

• 1:25:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm wide open. Woo hoo.

• 1:25:54Speaker 05

  Dusty got shot and then Osha got married. Stewie's still dead and commitment's still scary. And I got a new woman, but I treat her like my old one. If I keep this shit up, I know I'mma be with no one. And I'm wide open.

• 1:26:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, wide open Woo hoo

• 1:26:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think anything matters I don't really care at all You wanna start a revolution? But nobody cares and everyone's tired Work a little bit harder And baby, so will I You wanna revolution? But nobody cares and everyone's tired

• 1:27:31Speaker 05

  And the promenades filled with a gray cloud It's dripping black all over the playground And the museums all filled with the Snapchat Got the head of a dog in my backpack And underneath all my clothes is a snake skin That I stole from the temple when it caved in Cause they built it too close to the fault line When the capital burned, we were all high On the beautiful mess we'd created There's a thought in my mind, this is sacred In the future, this will all be ancient And the water in the sink has been tainted With the year another governor's first born On his second birthday, he got a surfboard But he crashed it ever since, he's been dirt poor

• 1:28:16Speaker 05

  So he picked up the guitar, he's trying to learn chords And time wrote a new constitution And Jimmy wants to start a revolution And the people wanna start it all over Cause the poets just murdered all the soldiers And the monks have God on their shoulders And the world's just another day older I said, "Time wrote a new constitution" And Jimmy wants to start a revolution My week is wide

• 1:29:14Jay Shetty?

  We need to, I wish there was like an audience here, man.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Next time.

• 1:29:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we're gonna have to, when I go do my world tour, I'm gonna be getting you this, try and get you to come and sing this.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  Let's go. That'll be fun, bro.

• 1:29:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, because, oh, that's beautiful, man.

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:29:32Jay Shetty?

  It's always more beautiful when the person singing and seeking at the same time.

• 1:29:39Jay Shetty?

  That was incredible, man.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:29:41Jay Shetty?

  I feel so blessed being able to watch that live.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:29:44Jay Shetty?

  No, I hope we're gonna continue our friendship and...

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  We are, for sure.

• 1:29:49Jay Shetty?

  And talk for hours and hours and hours, yeah. Is there anything that, I always ask this because it's important to me because like I said to you before that this podcast is an opportunity for me to serve you and it's an opportunity for me to help highlight the incredible work you're doing. Is there anything that I haven't let you share, you haven't been able to share, you think we've missed? There's a message that's intuitively in your veins right now that needs to come out.

• 1:30:12Speaker 01

  I think we did it. I think we got it.

• 1:30:14Jay Shetty?

  Awesome, man.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  For now, because obviously we could talk more.

• 1:30:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we're gonna get together again and do this.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  I got questions for you, man.

• 1:30:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm excited, man. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mike. The album is out. We're not sharing a date, but if you're listening to this, the album's out right now.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:30:30Jay Shetty?

  So I want you to go and get it, listen to it. I promise you, if you found this conversation exhilarating and it took you somewhere, then the album will do beyond that, so.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  Thank you, sir.

• 1:30:42Jay Shetty?

  Please, please, please go check it out, guys. Thank you so much. Thanks, Mike.

• 1:30:51Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're gonna share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to On Purpose. Let me know, post it. Tell me what a difference it's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious community we're creating of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe, a part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you.

• 1:31:36Speaker 06

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:32:16Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Ravenet.

• 1:32:22Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:32:29Speaker 04

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a middle without parent.