Lil Nas X: Overcoming the Battle Between Embracing Authenticity & Navigating Society's Expectations

Do you feel that you struggle with being authentic? Do you want to overcome the judgment of society's perceptions of what it means to be authentic? Today, Jay sits down with Lil Nas X. Lil Nas X is a 24-year-old award-winning rapper, singer, songwriter from Atlanta, Georgia. Dubbed “an internationally recognized phenomenon” by Billboard, Lil Nas X rose to fame in 2019 when he released “Old Town Road” and shattered genre norms, disrupted the charts and went viral worldwide. After a highly successful EP and several multi-platinum songs, Nas went on to release his critically acclaimed and GRAMMY-nominated debut album Montero in September 2021, which featured the culture-shifting 6x Platinum hit “MONTERO (Call Me By Your Name)”. Following the release of Lil Nas X’s latest single “J CHRIST”, his beautiful new documentary, Lil Nas X: Long Live Montero, debuted this weekend on HBO and is available to stream now on Max. In this vulnerable episode Lil Nas X shares his story from being a shy kid in Atlanta Georgie to achieving his wildest dreams. Lil Nas X has proven that there is power of self-awareness and embracing your true identity, even in the face of loss and grief. He shares with us personal stories that have shaped him into the person he is today, and the person he is working on becoming. The conversation navigates through fears, the misunderstood aspects of Lil Nas' message in his latest single, and the importance of cherishing time with family. They discuss spirituality, the quest for genuine love, dealing with a lack of control, and overcoming inner voices. In this interview, you'll learn: How to embrace authenticity How to deal with societal expectations How to be true to yourself How to genuinely believe in what you love to do How to make peace with your inner voice Tune in for a thought-provoking and heartwarming conversation that validates our humanness, flaws and strengths, and our ability to overcome difficult times. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:42 Fascination for Time Traveling 03:55 Lil Nas X Helped Montero Morph Out of Being a Super Shy Kid 07:04 There’s No Reason to Stop, Even You Mess Up 08:57 What’s Your Favorite Childhood Memory? 10:32 Becoming Self Aware and More In Tune with Your Sexuality 11:24 Losing a Loved One to Cancer 16:22 A Song About not Being Present When a Loved One Needed You So Much 17:39 Appreciating and Cherishing Time Spent with Family 19:27 What Scares You the Most Right Now? 20:56 What Does Positive Chaos Look LIke? 22:14 The Part of Montero’s Message That Got Misunderstood 26:30 My Relationship with My Father 28:52 We All Have Our Own Ideals in Seeing Other People 31:09 Freedom to Explore Your Spirituality 35:05 This One Being That’s Connected to Everything 36:28 Being Authentic and Relatable at the Same Time 38:37 Fully Open to Finding Real, Genuine Love 42:10 Overpowering the Voices in Your Head 45:23 The Ability to Recognize that Everything has Its Place 45:58 Allowing Your Younger Self to Grow 47:35 Things that Haven’t Been Said to My Family Are in the Documentary 50:35 How to Help Others Work on Their Best Self 54:04 How Do We Deal with Our Lack of Control? 56:03 Why We Need to Relax Sometimes to Stay Sane 57:23 The Habit of Watching a Movie to Take a Break 59:34 What Are You Focusing on Over the Next 12 Months? 01:01:39 Do You Believe in Angel Numbers? 01:03:24 What Do You Do When You Can’t See the Signs? 01:05:11 Lil Nas X on Final Five Episode Resources: Lil Nas X | Instagram Lil Nas X | Twitter Lil Nas X | YouTube Lil Nas X | TikTok Lil Nas X | Facebook Welcome to Montero See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:25Jay Shetty?

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• 2:09Jay Shetty?

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• 2:29Jay Shetty?

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• 3:12Jay Shetty?

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• 3:55Jay Shetty?

  Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

• 4:26Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for reconnecting every day, every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. One of my favorite things to do is to sit down with people and understand their mindsets, understand how they became who they are, and understand what they go through in order to create the work they do. Today's guest is someone that I'm excited to connect with, to understand more about his mindset, his approach, and his upbringing. The guest is Lil Nas X, or Montero, a 24-year-old award-winning rapper, singer, songwriter from Atlanta, Georgia.

• 5:06Jay Shetty?

  Dubbed an internationally recognized phenomenon by Billboard, Lil Nas X rose to fame in 2019 when he released Old Town Road and shattered genre norms, disrupted the charts, and went viral worldwide. The song's remix with Billy Ray Cyrus became the longest-running number-one single in Billboard Hot 100 history and is recognized with numerous awards, including two Grammys. After a highly successful EP and several multi-platinum songs, Nas went on to release his critically acclaimed and Grammy-nominated debut album, Montero, in September 2021, which featured the culture-shifting six-times-platinum hit, Montero: Call Me By Your Name.

• 5:49Jay Shetty?

  Following the release of Lil Nas X's latest single, "J-Christ," his beautiful new documentary, Lil Nas X: Long Live Montero debuted this weekend on HBO and is available to stream now on Max. Please welcome to On Purpose, Montero Lil Nas X. Thank you so much for being here.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to talk about stuff.

• 6:13Jay Shetty?

  I'm happy to talk about stuff too, and I wanted to start off with, I know that you love time travel.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I heard you were obsessed with time travel, and when I heard that, I was like, that sounds like something I'd love to hear more about. Where does that obsession come from?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Where does that come from? I love the idea that you can go and change anything in the past, or go to the future to like, to see what's going on. I guess it's... It's like a form of escapism that I just really enjoy, you know? And I like to explore it in my art a lot.

• 6:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, where have you explored changing things in the past? Like, what would be fascinating for you to visit?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Changing in the past? You know what? When I was younger, I always thought like, that's something I would wanna do. But as I grow older, I don't think I wanna change anything in the past. I guess I wanna go to the future and maybe ask myself like, what do I do now? I mean, cuz that's kinda like where I'm at in my life right now. It's like, what did you do to get to where you are? You know, I know I'm in that place, but I'm not there right now.

• 7:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. Where did the fascination come from? Where did it originate from?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Where did it originate from? I say the Back to the Future 2 movie, not the first one. But the second one and a lot of Family Guy episodes when Brian and Stewie like go to the past.

• 7:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. One of the things you said in the documentary was, you said that Lil Nas X helped you understand more about Montero. And, you know, the documentary is called Long Live Montero. I wanted to understand from you, who is Montero and who's Lil Nas X?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  I think Montero was at first like this very shy, super insecure kid. And, you know, had big dreams, but I guess was just very afraid of like even being like himself. And me becoming Lil Nas X, it was almost a persona, you know? And he could kinda just do whatever he wants and he can do anything. And he can move on to the next thing and not really be pigeonholed to like anything, you know? And he helped Montero morph into that person. If that makes sense.

• 8:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it does make sense. And was Lil Nas X, even if not by name, was that a character and energy that you harnessed when you were young? Was that a feeling you had when you were young? Or was it something that evolved through time?

• 8:42Speaker 01

  I think it's something that evolved through time, like through music. I think my enthusiasm or just like my.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Hunger to grow musically like pushes me to do things in my personal life that I would not do. And it's like not even just my personal life anymore because it's like public now. And I know if I'm not able to do those things, I can't continue to be Lil Nas X, or at least that's how it works in my head.

• 9:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can relate to that. I think we all have the little kid inside of us that's insecure and anxious and doesn't know how people are gonna react. And I think we all feel like we wish we had an alter ego or a version of ourselves that was stronger and bolder and more courageous. What what kind of qualities does Lil Nas X have that you love and adore?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  I feel like Lil Nas X knows how to navigate any situation. He knows how to find his way out of things that may seem like very like dark and daunting. And he helps Montero do that. And I feel like that's one of the reason why I call it Long Live Montero cuz I I still hope that innocent little boy inside of me like remains, you know? Because I think you need that balance of, you know, that courageous and you can do whatever and still like scared, like fearful, but excited, you know?

• 10:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so it's not like you're trying to remove the fear. You just you actually wanna protect that innocence.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  I wanna protect that innocence. And I don't, I think it's less like removing the fear and more so being able to do things even when fearful. And I it's like I'm showing the the younger me that exists within within me like, you can do this. You can do this, we can do this, it's gonna be scary, but but let's go for it and see what happens.

• 10:37Jay Shetty?

  So there's this quote in the documentary where you said, "My mind is hardwired since I was a kid, that if you F up one time, you have to quit the whole thing." And my question is, when have you felt that you've done that in life? Or have you ever felt that kind of fear and then pushed through because Lil Nas X came through?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  You know, after the success of like Old Town Road and whatnot, I had like this dark like period of like, oh God, like, what do I do? And I put out like my song Holiday like before, like right before Montero came out. And I just wasn't living up to what I had hoped for. And like I was in a hotel room and I was just like, telling myself like how much like I hate myself, you know, just like how did you let this? How did you mess this up and?

• 11:31Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  And how did you get here and? Like, it's nothing we can do now. Like, there's no reason for us to be here. And I guess that's like the childish like, like brat inside of me that

• 11:44Speaker 01

  is not comfortable working from the ground up, you know? And in my introduction to the music industry was already at the top, you know, like?

• 11:55Speaker 01

  It's, it's a hard thing to live from in a sense, you know what I mean?

• 11:58Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 12:01Jay Shetty?

  It's the hardest thing to follow up with one of the most successful drops of all time.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:08Jay Shetty?

  How did you process that?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I knew I was gonna do it. I didn't know how, I didn't know how I was gonna continue. But what it took was me bringing out another side of myself, which was like Montero, Call Me By Your Name. And with that though, I had to let go of this, um,

• 12:29Speaker 01

  this like child, like innocence, like the public had with me, I guess.

• 12:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I want to dive into your childhood actually. I was gonna ask you like, what, what would you believe would be your favorite memory growing up? Like, if you were to close your eyes right now and think about Atlanta, Georgia, what's the vision or the visual that comes to mind or your heart that resonates and connects with love?

• 12:52Speaker 01

  I went immediately to this one, but I don't even know if it's mine's. But it's like me in front of my like grandma's house.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  And I'm just like running around the tree like, I don't know.

• 13:05Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  But I feel like that's one of my first memories, you know?

• 13:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  And it's just like bliss.

• 13:13Jay Shetty?

  Where was that? Like, what, where was the house? What did it look like? What are you seeing?

• 13:16Speaker 01

  It was actually an apartment and it was, um, it was in Bankhead Courts, Atlanta. It was like basically the hood, you know what I mean? But at that time, you know, everything felt all right. So, yeah.

• 13:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And how old are you in this memory or this?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  I feel like I was maybe like five. It was right before the tree got cut down too.

• 13:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Kind of symbolic in a way.

• 13:41Jay Shetty?

  In what way?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  I don't know. I guess, um, life increasingly became more like real. Things started to happen within like, you know, my family life and also at that time, recognizing even at that age, like, you know, my sexuality and whatnot. And I feel like it, you know, became like a rocky like ship from that moment.

• 14:09Jay Shetty?

  Is that when you started to become more aware of your sexuality? Was that an age that it started to become?

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, cause that was the age I started to become like aware of myself and it was also like becoming aware of the world around me, you know? And it's like, oh, this thing that's really bad that nobody seemed to like. I happen to be that thing, but maybe, um, maybe, you know, maybe it's not that bad, but also, you know, God's like probably super mad at me and I don't want God to think I'm like being disrespectful or anything. I'm, and it's like, you know what I mean? All those things that I feel like I shouldn't be thinking about at like six.

• 14:50Jay Shetty?

  Definitely. That's a lot. That's heavy to be thinking about at six.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. It's a lot, I think, for anyone to be processing at six years old. It's a lot of things to be questioning. I mean, you, in that memory, you talked about your grandmother and I know that you're, when your great grandmother passed, that was the first person that was close to you that you lost. And that was when you leaned into music. How old were you when that happened, considering that memory you have that you just visualize? How old were you when that happened and how did that make you lean into music?

• 15:21Speaker 01

  You know, I actually, that actually happened when I was maybe eighteen, so.

• 15:26Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  But at that time, my dad had already had custody, because I used to live with my grandmother from like when I was like, um, like five until like eleven, and I was just like the golden child. I was like spoiled and like I got so much love and I was like, you know, I was the baby of the family. So once my dad got custody of us, you know, he played like much more like hardball kind of vibes, and I didn't see my grandmother as much, but she was still like number one person in my heart when I like thought about like love. And, you know, around sixteen or so, like I was told she had cancer and it was, it was like, it was like this thing that I was like, oh, it can't be true. And I kind of just like,

• 16:11Speaker 01

  tried to forget like it exists. I'm like, well, she's still alive. Like, you know, maybe that was just like.

• 16:17Jay Shetty?

  Denial?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was like a lot of now, even like when I was around her, like, you know, noticing that she was like getting skinnier and like, like looking different and she would like say things, like, you know, I'd be like, Grandma, I love you. And she'd be like, you know, I don't love myself and, and stuff like that. And it was just, it was really hard to like hear and listen to this person that you have so much love for, like lose, like faith in life and just like the world in general. And it's like, it's also the person that has took on a role of being the back of the family for so many people, like, you know, of the person, you know, the grandmother, like she has like the family reunion.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  She has everybody over for Thanksgiving. She watches the kids. Like, that's like a big thing in the black community and whatnot. And. And now like, you know, she, I guess, like feels cheated by life. And, you know, I guess I could feel that through the way she would carry herself at that time. And so it was really hard when she passed and it was something I tried to like brush over.

• 17:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I actually lost my uncle when I was around, around your age at that time. And he was, he also was diagnosed with throat cancer. And I was really close to my uncle. He was, he taught me how to drive. He helped me get my first job. He used to own like a news shop and, you know, sell newspapers and stuff. So he would like, let me work out and work in the shop and make a little pocket money. And, and then when he died, it was really interesting for me because I was getting more into spirituality at the time. And he was really angry that I was getting into spirituality. And so he was so mad at me and like, you know, when he was really, really unwell, he'd be like, I hope you're not gonna get spiritual and I hope that's not gonna be your path. And so he was kind of losing that positive spark. He was always like this positive energy and then towards the end of his life,

• 18:10Jay Shetty?

  he was more angry than anything else. And it was, uh, yeah, it was an interesting experience going, you know, going from someone that again loved me so much, helped me so much, someone that I was very close to, to then feeling like he actually didn't like who I was becoming. How did you feel your grandmother's love evolved for you?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Sorry for, I'm sorry about that.

• 18:33Jay Shetty?

  Oh, no. Thank you. You, you, you inspired me to be vulnerable and share it back with you because, yeah, I guess we both lost someone that we cared about at a similar time. But yeah, how did your grandmother's love evolve for you from that five to 11 age when you were living with her? Like, how do you, how do you think she loved you that stayed with you?

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I guess that's like afterwards, five, um, or like during the time.

• 18:55Jay Shetty?

  Both.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  You know, my grandmother's, um, like one of those things that, that she really loved when, you know, life, I guess wasn't like great, like where we lived and, you know, our like financial situation. And just like, you know, the, what comes with, you know, getting older in life. Uh, you know, I got, I got all the love. I got all the love and, you know, sadly my siblings got the other end of that stick, I guess. And.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  You know, around the time my dad got custody of us, I didn't feel like that special child anymore, which is probably good for my young ego, you know? Like, feeling like I had to be like that one all the time. And I guess I kind of stopped seeing my grandmother as much. I'd go over there like a lot of the weekends and whatnot, but you know, it was just like the thing that I can't be there anymore. And then eventually, like, she passed away and it was just like, it was very confusing.

• 19:59Jay Shetty?

  Do you remember the first song that you made after her passing? Or anything that, any music that came from that?

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I made a song called Carry On, and it was pretty much about how I felt like very selfish about not being there when she passed away. When I was supposed to be there that day, you know? But I was so stuck on social media, you know what I mean? And I was so, like, really into Twitter and trying to, you know, build that, even though I know my grandmother's like on her last days. And it was just like, I just felt like very selfish, because it was, you know? Like, this person that showed you so much love, showing you so much love, and you're not there because you're like trying to get these people's attention online.

• 20:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think a lot of people can relate to that, too. You get so obsessed with your career or a direction or a path, and it's working, and it's winning, and there's momentum. And we all kind of, you know, and you were young when that happened for you, but a lot of people into their 30s, 40s, 50s will, you know, attest to that and put their hand up and say, you know, they've done that, where they've over-prioritized their career to their relationships. How has that shifted how you've lived since then? Like, that reflection or realization that you've had?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  I'll be honest, I'll say I was still kind of like that way up until these last, like, maybe two years of, I guess, my break from, like, music or whatnot. I've started to really...

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Actually cherish being with my family and stuff because it's like, these people are growing up so fast, like my nieces and nephews. You know, you see that on TV and you feel like it's like cliche or whatnot, but it happens like so fast and I feel like the older I get, the faster these years like somehow go by. And yeah, yeah, pretty much.

• 21:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's a wise realization to have at 24, I'll tell you that. Like, that's early. I think most people that I speak to, again, like you're saying, we hear the cliche, we see it. But I'd say most people don't get to that realization until they're like 30, 40, maybe even later on in life, you know? It's a weird one because you kind of feel like you'll be the exception.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:20Jay Shetty?

  Right? Like, everyone feels like they'll be the exception. Maybe their life will go slower, they'll have time for everything. There was another line in the documentary that really resonated with me. There were so many things. I can't wait for everyone to watch the documentary, honestly, because as someone who knew your music, was aware of you, I felt like I got really invited into your stream of consciousness during it. And I so appreciated, I found your thinking out loud to be extremely comforting, even though we've never met each other and we don't know each other. And there were so many things that you said where I was like, oh, I can relate to that in some way. And this was another one. You said, "A lot of the times when I'm scared, it's when I'm about to do something that will change my life drastically."

• 23:04Jay Shetty?

  And I was gonna ask you, what scares you the most right now? Or what do you feel fearful about right now that you think might be on the verge of changing your life drastically?

• 23:15Jay Shetty?

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• 23:55Jay Shetty?

  at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of

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• 25:40Speaker 01

  I think just like my place right now in my actual like career in like these last like couple of weeks, you know, I've never been here like mentally and actually like physically. You know, where you've like been so like focused and like zoned in on what you're doing and you push your art out into the world and it's kind of like received negatively by like the majority, you know what I mean? But then like also understanding why, you know, and and having to like see it through.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  So I guess that's that's where I'm at right now and my next move, you know, the things that I'm planning on right now. I I feel like somewhere in here, there's going to be this magical moment that I can't even take credit for. Yeah, I feel like that's that's going to sweep. I feel like that always happens. So.

• 26:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there's always magic in the messiness.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:42Jay Shetty?

  But it's not fun.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  No, not at all. It's been a lot.

• 26:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, we'll we'll get to that as well. There was there was another line that kind of sparks what you just said now. You said you talk about wanting a little bit of chaos. And there's a part of you that likes a little bit of chaos. And I was gonna ask you, what does positive chaos look like to Montero? And what does negative chaos look like?

• 27:03Speaker 01

  I think that the thing is, it's usually when I can control it. I I've lost, I don't, I don't think I have the grip on controlling it. I feel like it does a lot of what it wants now, you know?

• 27:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  I'm usually like strategic with things and I can kind of like move the conversation, but that's the chaos I like.

• 27:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:26Jay Shetty?

  It's it's it's kind of like a kid that starts a fire and it's into under control.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:31Jay Shetty?

  As opposed to a forest fire.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like in the, it's like, oh, this is not to, this wasn't supposed to, this is not my chaos.

• 27:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  But yeah, I like to keep things interesting or whatnot and. Yeah, lead the conversation around it, but yeah.

• 27:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think all of us love that. I love and I appreciate the honesty. Like, I think we all love chaos that's under control and that we can control. Drama that we can control, but then as soon as it, and it's funny because it always starts like that, right? Like even a forest fire starts because there was a little controllable fire, but then it spread really, really fast.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:06Jay Shetty?

  And that feeling of things leaving your grip is like the most uncomfortable feeling in the world when you feel something just like.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  It's the worst.

• 28:13Jay Shetty?

  It's the worst feeling ever.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:16Jay Shetty?

  When you feel that way, when you've created something and then it takes a life of its own, you've experienced it positively and challengingly. How do you process that? Or how do you allow yourself to be okay with creating something controlled and then it becomes fully chaotic and out of control?

• 28:33Speaker 01

  It can get almost like depressing, but you know, actually depressing and it can, you can become like super angry with yourself, as I said, like earlier or whatnot.

• 28:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  And yeah, I mean, it gets that deep.

• 28:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, because you said recently, and as you brought up the last two weeks, you said, you said you felt like you really messed up this time. And I was like, you know, and you were saying that it affected your mental health, right? Like it really felt like it affected your mental health. And I'm like, why did you feel that way? And in what way does it affect your mental health?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I already kind of like explained the situation, you know, in that video. But it was, it was this thing that artistically, it was just supposed to be like, I'm returning, like I'm back, I'm back like him, you know what I mean? And it turned into this whole thing where

• 29:28Speaker 01

  it was me trying to dunk on Christians or something. And that was never like what it was, never. And then, and then I, then I looked at the video with me like eating like the communion or whatnot. And I was like, okay, this looks really bad on paper. This thing that I thought was just like a little jokey fun video. I also had to think about like how many of my family members are like Christian, like my grandmothers and stuff and, you know, like aunties and things like that. I'm like, wow, like, do they see this as that too? If they do like, you know, that's, that's really messed up and it's,

• 30:09Speaker 01

  you know, it make me sad. And then, you know, on top of that, like seeing like actual fans like, turn and say like, whoa, why is he doing this? Why is he keep messing with these people? And I, I think another thing was messages got turned around because one got turned around, the idea of Montero, call me by her name, which is me like taking ownership of this place. Everybody tells you I'm gonna go. And that was just turned into, oh, he's teaching Christianity a lesson, when that's not the case, you know? And now this thing was like, oh, I'm Jesus, I'm, I'm back like Jesus, which is if anything, it's, it's, it's like homage to Jesus, like this guy that made the greatest comeback of all

• 30:52Speaker 01

  time. And I'm not the first artist to do such a thing. That message like turned around and I didn't know, I didn't know how to like do anything with it. It wasn't my chaos anymore. It was the world and anything anybody said was true because that's who I am as a person. I'm, I'm this troll and I want to make these people mad. And so everybody can run with that. And there's nothing I can do about that. I can, I can say as many things I want, but knowing my history, they look right, I look wrong.

• 31:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:24Jay Shetty?

  Well, I think the way you addressed it and you're addressing it right now is, is helpful and useful to people because I think it came across very clearly to me and it does today too, even sitting with you. Like it's not something you're trying to disrespect or mark. But for people who feel that way, what would you say to them? Like for someone who feels that that is what it is?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  What would I say to them?

• 31:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What would you want them to hear? It's probably a better question.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  You know what's, you know what's crazy? I, I, I feel like I've said, you know, I apologize for the communion thing. On, on, on that note, everything else I'm not sorry about. I don't, I don't think I did anything wrong. You know what I mean? And it's like, I've also been making like a lot of like gospel music like to, to like God and, and like, like my spiritual side. And I hate that this whole thing is turned into like a mockery, which it isn't, you know?

• 32:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. And, and I think there's also like, I was gonna, actually, maybe that's a good thing to talk about. Like, obviously, your father's a gospel singer, right?

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:30Jay Shetty?

  Well, I would love for you to talk about your relationship with your father to give kind of context to the conversation we're having right now, because I'm not sure how many people are aware of your deep Christian roots. So walk us through some of your relationship with your father and how that's evolved, which comes across in the documentary for sure.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  I feel like me and my father have grown closer as I got older, because the version of me that he saw wasn't really me, it was the version that I presented to him. So as I've like come out and whatnot, like even before I came out though, my dad, well, when I did initially came out, when I initially came out to my dad, he was just like, you know, the devil may be tempting me or whatnot. And it's definitely taken its own journey, because now like my dad, it's like, yo, do you have a boyfriend kind of vibe, like you could tell me about that stuff, like, you can let me know that, and you know, he even came to me, he even came with me to like a gay club with like my brothers and sisters one time,

• 33:31Speaker 01

  just like dancing and stuff, it's been a complete like 180.

• 33:35Jay Shetty?

  How does that feel like, because from going from, you know, coming out to your parents and your father saying, yeah, you know, the devil, I mean, that is a really extreme, obviously, reaction on one end, and now coming with you to a gay club, like, how does that transition even, A, how does that transition happen, B, how does that feel?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I feel like it was an over time thing, and also him like learning me as a person, like, I feel like him seeing me in interviews and stuff like that was like the same for everybody else, like every, I feel like the entire world started to see me, my brothers and sisters, my family, everybody started to see me at the same time. You know what I mean? I feel like before that, I was just very like meek about everything. So over time, you know, with Call Me By Your Name coming out, and like the entire like Montero album like Roll Out, and me inviting him, and like listening to my songs on my last album, that's how he learned about me, and I feel like him hearing me from my own mouth and like

• 34:36Speaker 01

  in the world and seeing me in the world like helped him understand me more. And I feel like over time, he was like, okay, I understand now, you know what I mean?

• 34:46Jay Shetty?

  It feels like you've also always had this compassion for people who don't always understand you, like even when You say when you first told your father and he had that reaction of maybe the devil's tempting you, you actually understood that. Like, there was a part of you that went, "Oh, I get that." And then there's other parts in the documentary True when you have protesters outside. And again, you're like, "I'm actually happy that they have something that they belong to and they stand for." Like, there's a compassion and context that you seem to have, even when you're the one who's trying to express yourself. You can see how it's hard for people to digest that. Would that be fair to say?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  For sure. I mean, the truth is, I feel like over the last couple of years, I've learned not everybody is against you, is just like against you, you know? There's a lot of like learned things, you know, a lot of things over time, people have latched onto it in their brains, it's hard to let go of. So, they see you as this way because of something that was, you know, far beyond their control. Things they've been taught to, they like grew up, you know, like my dad has been taught and like shoved in his head, you know? And everybody in the world, like we all have like ideals like put into our brains. And I don't want to like try to be a thing where it's easy to paint people who

• 36:09Speaker 01

  don't like you as like haters, or just like evil and like bigoted and whatnot. But it's like, these people just genuinely don't understand you. And inside of their mind, like it's, it's like fear, you know? It's like fear and it's, it's like discomfort. And there's all these things that the human mind wants to run from, you know? And I understand that, because I still have those things.

• 36:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we all see things in others that we don't understand. And as soon as we don't understand something, the most human emotion is to feel fear. Any sort of change makes us feel fear, any sort of uncertainty. So if someone, we look at someone and we feel uncertain about them, it generally sparks fear. That's how we've almost been conditioned as humans, to just feel fear. And so, as you've said before, you said, "Some people see me as the satanic devil that is going to ruin the world." Like when you, when you say things like that, what are you actually trying to do? When people see you that way? Like what I'm interested in is, when people see you that way, what are you actually trying to portray that sometimes gets seen that way?

• 37:23Speaker 01

  It's more so, um, taking all these things that I believe have been used to like demonize me and a lot of other people. And these conspiracies and it says, okay, this is what this looks like. Is, is this what you actually want to see? You know what I mean? Is this, is this who you think I am? Okay, I'm gonna do those things. I'm gonna do those things. You think I'm like this? So I'm gonna do these things.

• 37:57Jay Shetty?

  When you're building a new album, building a new song, making a music video, what's your artistic process? Like where does it start? Like, like what happens? Is it you taking notes? Is it journaling? Is it working with your team, your dancers? Like, how does, how does new work get created in Montero's world?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Can it, can we pause for a second?

• 38:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course we can, of course we can, yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm with you.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  We want to step outside for a minute.

• 38:21Jay Shetty?

  Of course you can, of course you can. Yeah, absolutely, of course you can, man. Of course you can. Let's open up, ladies. Take your time.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 38:38Jay Shetty?

  What would you like to say? Where is, where is your hub?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Well, first, I'll say what I say out there. Um, I'm trying to be authentic and say, you know, words from my heart. But, you know, I feel like it ends up sounding rehearsed. And I guess, um,

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I'm trying to get there. But yeah, I'm doing my best.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  But we can move from, we can move from this.

• 39:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And and all you can ever be asked for is doing your best, so. Can't ask for anything more. And I think we're all in that.

• 39:21Jay Shetty?

  We're kind of all in that.

• 39:24Jay Shetty?

  Pressure of trying to be authentic selves, but then. You know, there's that, there's that famous meme on social media that I see all the time that says. Society says be yourself. And then society says, no, not like that.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:38Jay Shetty?

  And I think, you know, we all kind of spend some time.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so. That's authentic. That's true. Yeah.

• 39:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 39:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  You know, society doesn't really want like people to be like themselves and stuff like that. Just like to a degree.

• 39:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. We, yeah, we want everyone to be authentic. In a way that makes us feel good.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  And the the truth is, is if everyone was authentic. Oh, boy, this world would be insane.

• 40:06Jay Shetty?

  What would it be like?

• 40:07Speaker 01

  It it will, it would have some great things, but definitely like some terrible things too.

• 40:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:14Jay Shetty?

  So it's probably better that everyone's a little less authentic. It's an interesting conversation. Authenticity is an interesting conversation.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  I think it depends on what you see is better, like. Positive and light, does that automatically equals like better like? Cause it's, I feel like some dark things help bring light, you know? Balance.

• 40:36Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's almost like, I feel like even internally, when you're doing the work.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Shadow work and stuff like that.

• 40:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  You have to go through a lot of darkness, you know, you gotta. Understand like what you are capable of and. And like who you are and decide not to do like. Like that, that bad that you could do, you know?

• 40:58Jay Shetty?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:59Jay Shetty?

  Do you do a lot of inner work? Is that kind of, I know you became spiritual and you got involved in a bit of your own spirituality. What is, what does that look like? Exploring your own spirituality? What does that look like in your definition, in your words?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do a lot of like inner work and understanding like who I am and, but also like the, and like trying to let go of the pressures of, I guess, what I feel like society a lot of times will want me to be.

• 41:26Jay Shetty?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  You know, like this big brave like champion for the community, which, you know, I can't be at all times. You know what I mean? I just wanna do me sometimes, of course, like I wanna do what I can, but I want it to come naturally and...

• 41:44Jay Shetty?

  Is there a lot of pressure sometimes, it feels like? To always have to be? I was joking about it with someone else the other day. Like whenever I'm around someone, I always feel the pressure that I have to say something wise. Because, because that's the, the kind of, you know? And so like when I'm around someone, it's kind of like being around a comedian and you, they have to be funny.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, yeah, I think it's exactly that.

• 42:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I think it's exactly that. Even like with the funny thing sometimes, you know, cause I'm an online troll and stuff. I'm like, I don't wanna be funny right now. I wanna, I wanna, I don't know, I wanna eat this food and, and you know, not really talk to you, wanna scroll on my phone a little bit and eat this food. But the whole thing, like even with like Montero still like riding on my back, like we're talking about it right now and be like featuring the video and stuff and it's like, that's just what I want to do. It wasn't, I, I'm not always trying to like make a deep message, I guess, like, I guess.

• 42:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  If that makes sense.

• 42:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. So sometimes you're just trying to have fun.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Not even just trying to have fun, it's just, a lot of things I do,

• 42:49Speaker 01

  most things through my art are for me and just thankfully other people can see it as helping them.

• 42:57Jay Shetty?

  It's coming as a form of self-healing and self-expression. And then if it connects with people, then...

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Like I pray it connects with you.

• 43:04Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  But...

• 43:07Speaker 01

  I don't know, I'm not, I'm not trying to be a martyr, if that makes sense.

• 43:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, Rick Rubin was here a few months ago. And he was saying something similar. He was saying that he thinks that true art and true creativity is not made for consumption.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:26Jay Shetty?

  In that it is consumed and it is loved and it is connected with, but it wasn't created thinking, well, how are we gonna find the thing that connects? It's creating something that comes from within. Would you agree with that? Does that hold true?

• 43:38Speaker 01

  I agree completely. I like Rick Rubin.

• 43:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah?

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like his book. I only skimmed, I only skimmed through it, but I like it, yeah.

• 43:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a great book. Did you, uh, when, when do you feel you're connected to your most authentic 360 self? Like, what are you doing when you feel that way? Because I know in the documentary, it seemed like when you're with your dancers, who are also your friends, that felt like a form of self-expression and connectedness, where you feel like you can let go and be funny and be larger than life and be creative. Would you say that's where it comes through?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  I'd say if anything, it's when I'm creating music. And I guess that's like the thing that an artist should say or whatnot. But it's the truth. When I'm like making a song and when I can completely like let go of how it's gonna be received, I just feel like, one, you know, I feel like everything has come to me. All my energy is not like all out into the world, like every, like I feel like just one being like connected to everything. It's a feeling like I, I can't describe like no amount of success will ever like equate to it. I don't know if I'll ever like find love that strong. I hope so. But, but yeah.

• 44:56Jay Shetty?

  That's the, uh, I think that's the thing we were looking for, right? That we were searching for like. And and it's almost like you can't manufacture it, like you can't engineer it. It either happens or it doesn't.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  You can't fake it.

• 45:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  You feel it sometimes and sometimes you don't.

• 45:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:13Jay Shetty?

  You said you wanted to stay the acceptable gay person at first and you didn't want to be the one that shoves it down everyone's throats. And then now we're talking about, again, being authentic. I think we're all always trying to, we're always trying to play again to what people around us wanting to be. And then and then it comes out. How did you kind of go, well, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. I am gonna allow myself to free my.

• 45:35Speaker 02

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• 46:04Jay Shetty?

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• 46:48Jay Shetty?

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• 47:32Jay Shetty?

  That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  I feel like it's a push and pull, you know? Because of course,

• 47:44Speaker 01

  there's still parts of me that, you know, wanna please the people around me. You know, I mean, I feel like that's the whole idea of like something being successful a lot of the times. We gotta make sure it's packaged enough to be authentic, but also able to be like digestible at the same time.

• 48:03Jay Shetty?

  I almost feel like that's where we're all trying to exist. There's this, you, you said something that resonated with me that I was gonna read something from F. Scott Fitzgerald.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:11Jay Shetty?

  And so he has this beautiful quote that I'm, I'm fully obsessed with right now. And it, and it, when I look at you as an individual, this is, and you can reflect on whether you, how you feel about it. So he said that the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. In his words, one should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless, yet be determined to make them otherwise. But the way I'm reflecting on you is this idea of like, you wanna be doing things that are for the self, but then at the same time, it needs to connect to people. Like you wanna be able to

• 48:56Jay Shetty?

  be who you are with your friends and your family. And you realize that sometimes you gotta tone down parts of yourself, but then sometimes you don't want to. Right? We're constantly trying to, all of us are trying to be two things, almost.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 49:09Jay Shetty?

  Why is it so hard then?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. And I feel like that goes back into the whole thing of like. We're like not in control completely of things. Like no matter what you do, how much preparation or whatnot. It's not something you control, like people gonna love stuff or they won't.

• 49:26Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. You said about love there, you mentioned. How does finding love play a role in your life when, you know?

• 49:33Speaker 01

  I think this year is the first year since twenty twenty one that I'm gonna be open to like finding love. Cause I was kind of very closed off to it. It's like, no, no, no, I need to focus. I have these, I have really, really big dreams and I don't wanna share with everybody.

• 49:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  I have really, really big dreams and it's like. I feel like anything that I can get see as a distraction can get in my way. But at the same time, like that whole contradicting thing. Love can help inspire you to make like even greater art.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  But, but you know, I wanted to just have my like phase of being young and having fun with a lot of people, if you know what I mean.

• 50:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. I know what you mean. Yeah. But don't you think, again, it's, it's interesting, right? Like it is daunting. I agree with you. And yet I find that most people, of course, everyone wants to have a good time. I'm like that too. Like I love laughing. I love having a great time. And at the same time, again, talking about the paradox or the contradiction. I also wanna have meaningful connections because the last thing I wanna do is have a superficial, artificial like conversation with someone. So it's like this, it's funny how the things we find daunting are often things that even that person's kind of yearning for. Like I don't think anyone's ever had a really deeply meaningful conversation and then walked away from it going, that was a waste of time, right? Do you know what I mean? Like, you're never gonna say that. Like you're never gonna, you know, like I, I had a dinner with someone in London recently.

• 50:59Jay Shetty?

  And it was a group of us in, in a similar industry and everyone was being vulnerable. And we were laughing and connecting, but everyone was sharing their pains. And we walked away and no one was walking away going, God, that was the worst dinner. Everyone's gonna, yeah, everyone's going, that's the, one of the best dinners we've ever had. And, and I find that with artists, it's, it's, it's hard to have that, I guess. Like it's hard to find that. And so do you, do you feel like the dancers are where you find that? Like, is that a place of safety and a place of joy?

• 51:26Speaker 01

  I feel like that's definitely a place of joy.

• 51:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  And I don't like get super serious with them or barely like anyone for, for that matter, you know?

• 51:36Jay Shetty?

  Only me.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, I feel like I share most of my like therapy sessions at home alone with myself. And my cats in the distance. But yeah, like talking out loud to myself when all the voices in my head are saying like the most crazy terrible things you would ever hear a person say. It's useful.

• 51:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  It's helpful.

• 52:00Jay Shetty?

  How ridiculous can the voice inside your head get? Like what, how far will it go?

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Ridiculous as in like, you know, the time that I told you about like the hotel incident, like it's easy. When you're like down or in like a in like a hard place for all those voices in your head to like gang up. It's like, okay, this is the time. It's like, everybody go, go, go. And talking out loud can be that saving grace of a factor like, no, this isn't that bad. This thing isn't that terrible. We're going to get out of this thing. We've been through worse. We will go through worse. We got to make sure we get out of this thing so we can know about the worst. You know what I mean?

• 52:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  So yeah, like that, that helps a lot.

• 52:41Jay Shetty?

  That's a great technique. Yeah, I fully agree. I think the when you're lost in your head and in the silence, oh my gosh, you have no idea which voice to follow, which voice to let lead.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  It's the worst when you're like, oh, this terrible voice has a point. You know, it's like this one, this one's saying something maybe I should listen to. It's like, no, he's not like, that's a terrible idea.

• 53:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Have you ever used that technique where you label certain voices that you see as recurring and you give them a name and a and a way? Cause they say that that's a great technique of your inner critic, like giving it a name, giving it a personality. Have you, have you noticed certain ones that keep coming back?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  I don't give them a name per se, but as I said, like I'm a spiritual being and I feel like just like me, like I have my thoughts, my wants and my purpose. That voice in my head was, you know, created by the universe. It, it has a job and I think its job is to give me just enough to fight against. You know what I mean?

• 53:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  So it's like, I don't hate this voice. It's like you're part of me. We're one, we're together, we're in this together. You're doing your thing. I'm trying to do my thing. You know, but I can't listen, I can't listen to you on this.

• 53:54Jay Shetty?

  That, that's powerful. That, that the ability to. Not, yeah, the more we, right, there's that famous saying that says the more you resist, it persists, like it just keeps persisting. If you keep kind of butting heads against him, what you're saying is actually, I don't hate it. I just, I recognize it's a part of me.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  I see. I know that's, that's your thing. That's literally why you're here. I can't be mad at you for fulfilling your purpose, like, yeah.

• 54:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you, that is, that, you do have that quality, like that ability to recognize that everything has its place and everyone has their place. Where does that come from?

• 54:28Speaker 01

  The compassionate, like, parts of me trying to make sense of everything. I feel like it's so easy to label everything as, as like a, as like a demon or just like a, like a terrible, just like dark thing. But it's like this thing, it's, it exists, it has emotions and it has feelings just like you. And it's just trying to do its thing. Yeah.

• 54:54Jay Shetty?

  There was this one statement that reminds me of what you're saying now. You said, "People feel a lot of things about me, but boy, do I love this kid in the dark." How is, how is that journey of, "I love this little Montero, this kid inside of me", how is that developed? Like, what has that taken for you to get to a place of being able to say that, like, "I love this kid"? Because I think that's a journey we're all on.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  I think, and it's like something everybody knows, but we, we forget a lot, but we're literally just all like the same person in like a different life path. You know what I mean? And once I can really just understand and recognize that every single person has like these thoughts or a form of like these thoughts that I have in my head, I know I shouldn't like feel bad about where I am or what I think. And

• 55:49Speaker 01

  You know, what I'm doing because that's what this version of me is doing. Like, that's, that's where I am. And I have to love him through it and like, understand that he's gonna make these, you know, mistakes and he's gonna have accomplishments and he's gonna have great times. And he's gonna have bad times and he's gonna do amazing things and he's gonna do terrible things. And, and it's like, um, I have to, uh, allow him to grow through that. And me joining the world or anybody else in being hard on this kid is not gonna help.

• 56:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I was just saying the other day, I was saying to someone, you can't guilt yourself into growth.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  It's impossible.

• 56:26Jay Shetty?

  Like, you can't shame yourself or embarrass yourself into becoming better. Now, when was the last time you made someone feel guilty and they were like, yeah, I'm gonna be the best person in the world now? Like, it doesn't work that way.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, cliches it is, like, you know, love is really the, the answer for that.

• 56:45Jay Shetty?

  How does it feel, I know you're gonna go today or tomorrow to show your family the documentary, like, how does that make you feel to be, for them to be able to see this?

• 56:55Speaker 01

  I wanna be very, like, self-conscious, you know?

• 56:58Jay Shetty?

  The whole time, like?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, just, just like, oh my God, like, what are they thinking about this? You know, I've, I've said things this documentary that they've never heard me, like, say, you know, or my perspective on like, a lot of different things. And even them, you know, talking about them and how I feel closer or not close within.

• 57:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a lot, although, although it comes, yeah, it comes across, I'm hoping in a way that they can digest it. There's a lot of love you have for your nephew.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:29Jay Shetty?

  And, and your relationship of him not wanting to see you differently. How is, how is that relationship, like, progressed? And, because how old is he? He's, he's young.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  He's 11, he's about to be 12 this year. I feel like, you know, he's, he's one of the only people in my family that calls me like, 24/7.

• 57:46Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  And I just really, like, appreciate that, cuz, you know, before they get to like, their age where they're just like, too cool and whatnot, I'm happy to have like, that person that's still, I don't know, is inspired by me or still like, loves me like, all the same.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  And yeah, yeah, throughout everything.

• 58:08Jay Shetty?

  What will he say to you when he's calling you up? Like, what's that, what is he doing? What's a twelve year old saying?

• 58:13Speaker 01

  You know, kids like he will call and kind of just like say, yo, what's up? And then just be like silent for a minute. And then, and then it's like, yeah, I've been on Fortnite and like stuff like this, like kid stuff. And I, I love that. It, it makes things much smaller. Cause in my head, where I have all these things that I feel like are the big, grandest like problems of my life and blah, blah, blah. You know, he's, he's like in school, like trying to get his grade up in science. You know what I mean? It's like these things, yeah, it, it, it keeps me, it keeps me like down to earth.

• 58:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, it's like when my mom calls me up and I've been doing, you know, whatever crazy thing. And then she's like, have you eaten today? Like, that's what she cares about.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  The little stuff, it's like.

• 59:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  It makes everything much.

• 59:01Jay Shetty?

  Have you had your lunch? Like, have you taken your vitamins? Like, that's what my mom would say to me. And I'm like, mom, like, I'm at the White House or whatever it is. And she's just like, yeah, have you had your vitamins? It's like, it's the best thing though. Yeah, it keeps you grounded.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:13Jay Shetty?

  Keeps you connected. And you're right, like so often we just start getting lost in this, you know, this big vision of what we're doing and what we're creating. And it kind of just pops the bubble, like, you know, they come along and just go, yeah, it's not that.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  It makes it much like smaller and easier to maintain in a way.

• 59:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. You said something about the family that really resonated. You said, how can we get everyone in a house within five years without me paying for it? And I was like, you know, what does that new level of relationship of desire mean to you? Like, what is, what are you trying to create there? Or where does that thought come from?

• 59:49Speaker 01

  I feel like that opens a bigger like question or like current like problem in my life. I'm like not a little boy anymore like I'm a grown man and I have to take on like this this like leadership role and I feel like once you break society down everything is still like tribes and whatnot and I have tribes you know like like on my family like like this is my tribe or you know like my my team around me in my career like this is my tribe I have to get in the front of this and try to figure things out and like try to understand like how do these people work best

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  like how can I get you you know to doing your best thing and how can I get you to doing your best thing so we can all progress because of course you know I gotta get myself right first before I do anything but it's like also I have to understand like how can I help you I'm in this place I believe the universe sent me here to try to try to fix things you know it's like how do I build your confidence up like with my brothers and sisters like how do I build your confidence up us all these people that grew up in these places where we've been told over and over in our life by even each other and our family members and and the world that we're not like how do I get you the confidence to to chase your own dream or if your dreams not something like grand grand you know how do I get you to

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  I don't know be on my team and just something where you're happy and it's so hard to get people organized and organized things and realize that this is something I have to do because if I don't do it it it may not get done you know what I mean

• 1:01:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah yeah yeah

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  and but yeah I'm I'm I'm at that place where I'm trying to figure that out

• 1:01:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah I can understand that it's it's hard because you've got so many roles on your team then there's family there's friends coming up I mean it's it's hard and it's hard to put everyone on too I mean I've spoken to so many people who you know Today, like, top musicians, artists, actors who've had that years ago, where friends wanted to move from their hometown and come and join the team. And then sometimes they didn't want to put in the work. And sometimes they did, and sometimes they made it. Like, I know a friend of mine who's, this person used to seat people at his shows thirty years ago. And today, she's directing documentaries with him.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:02:10Jay Shetty?

  And it's like a beautiful journey, and it's amazing for them to have. But then, on the other end, you've also got friends who were given a route out. But then they let the money and the fame and the drugs and alcohol and everything consume them. And you recognize, it's almost like you can only give people opportunities, but they've got to take them for themselves.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's, that's hard to like come to grips with, you know? Like, you can give as many like speeches or, or talks or like as much guidance as you want, but it's just so hard to help some people up.

• 1:02:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it is, it is. But that's something that feels important to you.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, something that feels important. It's also something that, you know, it crushes you a little bit. You know, back to that whole like factor of you can't control this thing. You can't, there's nothing you can do about this.

• 1:02:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I feel like this is, this is not a question that me and you can solve here at all, because it is almost a question of life. But it's like, how do we, how do we deal with our lack of control every day? Like, how, how do we deal with the fact that we can't control things? Or how do you deal with the fact that you can't control everything in, in, on all of these areas? Yeah. Have you, have you found any coping mechanisms?

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  I have.

• 1:03:21Jay Shetty?

  Oh, cool, okay.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  And I have one main coping mechanism, and it's so silly, but it helps me through a life a lot.

• 1:03:28Jay Shetty?

  I'm excited.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  And it's, and it's like, dude, you're a gummy bear. And I know it doesn't make sense.

• 1:03:34Jay Shetty?

  I love gummy bears, I'm listening.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  But it's like, all of this.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Is in our head. It's all like a journey in in the grand scheme of things. A- as this individual, I am just a gummy bear. It's not that serious. It's not that deep. Keep moving forward. Of course, it's a contradiction because it's everything to me. It means everything to me. It's it's it's my whole being, but it's like, but I'm also a gummy bear. So it doesn't really matter if this thing, you know?

• 1:04:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter like, dude, relax, you know? So it's like a fight between those two, but that me being a gummy bear is like one of the only things that's going to get me through this really hard thing that I'm fight fighting or facing, you know?

• 1:04:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. I've never heard it put that way. So I like it. I like that it's silly. It's a, yeah, the idea of embracing our own insignificance. It's like we have our significance. We know what we're doing is important, but at the same time, we've got to embrace the insignificance of the irrelevant.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  It's like, yeah, like, relax, like.

• 1:04:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  It's not that serious. It's super serious, but it's not that serious. Yeah.

• 1:04:44Jay Shetty?

  That's a funny conversation inside for sure. Yeah. There's another thing that came up was you said that if I settle into a house, I feel like I'll have to be there forever. And there's this idea of like, you know, there's a shot in the documentary with all your suitcases there and you're like not sure about the couch. And I was wondering like, where does the fear of being somewhere forever come from?

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  I think it's like the whole idea of like becoming comfortable, you know? And of course I do have like couches and stuff now. I have like a new couch and I have like my cats, which I was very like hesitant to do. But, you know, I was I was very afraid of getting like super comfortable with my like Hollywood life. You know, I have like my house and stuff and now I'm going to get all my my Grammys over here and I'm going to put my couch right there. And here's my Mona Lisa painting, like stuff like that. I was very fearful that once I did that, I'm just going to like relax all the time.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  But now I I I see it differently. It's like, I wanna relax sometimes to keep myself sane. And I am gonna like put my house together, cuz there's nothing wrong with that. And I have to live because, as I said, like this goes by so fast.

• 1:05:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  I'm twenty four, like going on twenty five, and I feel like like two days ago I was nineteen, you know?

• 1:06:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I I feel like your home has to be a sanctuary for you, whatever that means for you. Like, it fills and fuels you up for the crazy life you live, cuz I'm sure you're going on tour again. You will go on multiple tours across your lifetime, like the time that you are spending there. You want it to be comfortable. You want it to be re-energizing. What does that look to you? What does rest look like for you now? Like, what does taking a break look like to you? Because you are someone who's ambitious and hardworking and driven, but now to get back up on that.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  I think I have one main thing, and it's super simple. It's going to see a movie.

• 1:06:34Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  I like to go and see a movie like, I don't know, some once, maybe twice, sometimes even three times like a week. And that's like my escapism moment, or like my moment of like rest or away from everything. You know, like during my time, you know, when I dropped the artwork for my last single and like it was like a hellscape, I went to see this movie called Migration, which is like this animated movie about like birds, like flying places. And it's just like this fun, like childlike movie. And I was there. I was in that movie. That was my rest. That was my peace. That was my sense, you know what I mean?

• 1:07:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I love going to the movies too. Was that the most recent thing you saw? Was there anything else that kind of, uh, what's been the best movie you've seen this year with the Oscars are coming up too?

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  I think I want to see like Poor Things, but it was very dark.

• 1:07:25Jay Shetty?

  I haven't seen that yet.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  But very dark.

• 1:07:26Jay Shetty?

  What was, yeah, what was it like? I haven't seen it yet.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  What was it like?

• 1:07:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  It was like, um, Emma Stone just giving like an amazing performance. It was also like this movie that was so weird, nothing like what I've seen before, like very like Ari Aster like vibes, you know what I mean?

• 1:07:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:42Jay Shetty?

  I'm glad you're not giving away. I really wanna see it.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  I don't wanna give away the entire thing.

• 1:07:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I really wanna see it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I love going to movies too. I'm a big, big. I loved Oppenheimer last year. Have you seen that yet?

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  I saw Oppenheimer, but it wasn't for me. It wasn't for me.

• 1:07:56Jay Shetty?

  I'm a Nolan, I'm a Nolan fan, Christopher Nolan fan, and like every movie he makes, I'm like. I love it when, well, Oppenheimer I got more of, Tenet was the one that was the hardest one to get. I don't know if you ever saw that.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  I liked Tenet. I didn't get it, but I like it.

• 1:08:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He makes movies. I love his movies because he's always creating things where it's not set up to be consumed like the average movie. Like you've got to Google on.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  You have to think about it. You have to look up and go on a forum or something and try to understand it.

• 1:08:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm that guy like looking at every little graphic explaining like the timeframe and and everything else that comes with it. Montero, what is it that, you know, what are you, what are you excited about over the next, you know, 12 months for you? What's something that's inspiring, pulling you and pushing you forward right now for the next 12 months?

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  I think the main thing I'm focused on is

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  picking myself up out of this

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  this hole that I like feel that I'm in, you know what I mean? And trying to figure out which songs of the hundreds or whatnot I've been working on suit me best for going forward.

• 1:09:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And what does that process look like? Like, how do you, how do you actually do that in an actionable, practical way?

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  I guess trying to feel which ones feel real to me and back to the other thing, but are also like consumable, you know what I mean?

• 1:09:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And how do you judge that? Because I guess like, how do you, as an artist even, are you just trusting intuition? Is there data? Is there prayer? Like out? Yeah, what is that?

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Intuition plus like, I feel like spiritual like signs. Yeah.

• 1:09:38Jay Shetty?

  Walk me through the spiritual signs. I like that.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  For example, in my, my last song, you know, um, my last single, uh, J. Christ, like I, I was kind of hesitant. I was like, is this, is this where I'm going to get me to the next place? And every time I would think about it, I would magically like see a cross in the distance or something like that. I was like, okay, this is a part of my journey. This is something, this is a threshold I have to cross through to get to the other side. Or. For example, um, another one, and I was worried about like releasing Call Me By Your Name. I was just like, oh my God, I don't know if I should. And then Good Days by like SZA comes on the radio, you know? And I'm just like, ah, and then the most beautiful like sun sunrise happens at the exact same time.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  I was like, okay, this is, you know what I mean? And I guess it's like things that are in everyday life, but I don't mistake that for just being everyday life. Like this is meant to be.

• 1:10:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  This has to happen this way.

• 1:10:36Jay Shetty?

  When did you start looking for those or noticing those in your life?

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  I think when I first moved to LA and I felt like um,

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  communicating, you know, I felt like I was talking to my angels. I it wasn't, it was like magic, you know what I mean? Like, like seeing like angel numbers, like I believe in angel numbers a lot. I'll give you a story. So I'm like sitting at this cafe, it's breakfast time, Old Town Road, you know, just hit like number one on the charts. I'm already thinking in my head though, I'm moving to LA. I'm not gonna really like be super, you know, with my family and whatnot, like I'm gonna do my own thing now. And I started seeing like this number, it was, and then I looked up what the number meant. And it was like, you need to, you know, bring your family together, basically. It was like you need to spend more time with your family to bring your family together. I was like, um, I was like, um, no, I don't, I don't think I'm gonna do that.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  And I just started seeing that number over and over and over. And I called my, I called my uh, my siblings. I was like, I wanna have our first like, uh, what's it called? Family reunion. And I did that thing and I started seeing a different number. And I looked up what that number meant and it was just like, you're on the right path. Like, and I kept seeing that number over and over, you know what I mean?

• 1:11:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  So it was, it was something, it was something like that, yeah.

• 1:11:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, wow, yeah. And, and that's, and that's been almost a discovery for you as opposed to something you were taught or trained or heard or learned. It's been self-taught almost.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it, and it's also like something that felt very real because, you know, at that time, like I wasn't spiritual at all. You know, I didn't believe in any of the stuff and I was just like, okay.

• 1:12:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  I see, I, I feel like you guys are there. I don't understand you completely, but yeah.

• 1:12:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and what do you like when you like can't see the sign or you can't find the answer? Is there something that helps you kind of realign or reconnect?

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  I feel like at that point, I just have to trust what I feel in my heart, you know? And I feel like there's a

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  There's a common sense when I know something is right. There's like a

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  It's like a washing of, okay, this is good.

• 1:12:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  I can't explain it.

• 1:12:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I get that. Yeah. I mean, that's the beauty of trying to explain in words, things that are experienced intangibly, right? It's it's hard. It's challenging, but I think anyone who's I know a lot of our community and our audience is able to see signs or knows what their signs are and their experiences and what they are. And I officiated a wedding in December. And the individual who's getting married always loves the color blue and sees her father's presence as a butterfly. And when I was leading the ceremony, there was a moment in the ceremony that I asked everyone to close their eyes and meditate with us. And then we opened our eyes and some of us still had our eyes closed.

• 1:13:34Jay Shetty?

  And a blue butterfly literally just flew right through the garden. There was only one. It wasn't like we were in a butterfly park or or something like that. And I can see that you you can sense it. And it was just, it was beautiful. Like, it was one of those moments where everyone afterwards was like, did you see the blue butterfly? Because they know how important it is to the bride. And it was just this magical moment of, you know, for her to have her father's presence at her wedding, who is no longer with us.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  That's beautiful, man.

• 1:13:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it was really, really special. So, yeah, I think for those for those who are on that path, who are aware of those things, I'm sure they'll they'll resonate with what you're saying.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's beautiful. Montero, we end every episode with a final five. These are the fast five. They can only be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. We ask them to every guest. And you've been such a kind, gracious guest with your time. So Montero, these are your final five. Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  Do it scared.

• 1:14:31Jay Shetty?

  I like that. Uh, second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  I don't know about that one.

• 1:14:37Jay Shetty?

  You block it out?

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I don't have that one.

• 1:14:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's cool. Uh, question number three, what's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night?

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  First thing I do in the morning, um, I get my cats off the bed and the last thing I do at night.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  I try to move my feet in a place where my cats won't scratch them.

• 1:15:00Jay Shetty?

  Nice. Uh, question number four, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  I guess approval from everyone around me, I guess. Yeah.

• 1:15:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're allowing yourself to let that go.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Jay Shetty?

  All right. Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Have a different one.

• 1:15:30Jay Shetty?

  I love that. That's, that's brilliant. I don't even have to break my law with you. What advice would you give to your younger self?

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Make sure you love yourself enough more than, than anybody else in this entire world like ever could. Yeah, I say that.

• 1:15:50Jay Shetty?

  That's it. Long live Montero. The documentary is out right now. Montero, little Nas X, it has been, um, I know, I know for you, however the experience goes, I'd love to hear from you, but honestly, I think the depth, the openness, and I want to thank you for showing up when you didn't have to, off your own accord and trusting me and giving me this space and time. So I'm grateful to you and thankful to you for showing up in the way that you did.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Thank you. I'm happy to be here and I'm appreciative of, you know, how you've like helped me through this.

• 1:16:24Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. If you loved this episode, you will enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.

• 1:16:37Speaker 03

  My therapist told me, "Stand in the mirror naked for five minutes." It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I was like, "You know what? Her thighs are cute."

• 1:16:52Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:17:21Speaker 05

  Mr. President, my company formed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd, causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is... Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Ravenette.

• 1:17:38Speaker 06

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what...

• 1:17:42Speaker 05

  With great power comes great deniability. I'm not the first man. Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not admitted without parent.

• 1:17:51Speaker 06

  Espolone Tequila. Balanced, delicious. 100% acave, 0% eagle. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth. For a real margarita, ride the rooster.

• 1:18:01Speaker 05

  Espolone Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80% proof. Copyright 2026, Compaq America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.