Kim Perell: Hate Your Job But Don’t Know What to Do Next? Ask Yourself THESE 7 Questions and Build a Step-by-Step Plan for the Career You ACTUALLY Want

Today, Jay sits down with serial entrepreneur, investor, and powerhouse mom of four, Kim Perell. Known for building her first company from her kitchen table and later selling one for $235 million, Kim shares the raw, behind-the-scenes truth of what it takes to turn failure into fortune. The conversation centers around Kim’s latest book, Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire, and offers a heartfelt blueprint for anyone feeling stuck, unfulfilled, or uncertain about their next move. Jay and Kim explore why perfectionism can sabotage progress, how fear often masks itself as procrastination, and why waiting to feel “fully qualified” often leads to missed opportunities. Kim introduces her 70% rule: a concept that encourages action over hesitation and reveals how taking small, imperfect steps helped her overcome self-doubt and build extraordinary businesses. The two also dive into the power of mentorship, the emotional toll of toxic relationships, and why surrounding yourself with the right people is crucial not just for professional growth, but for personal evolution. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Start a Business Before You Feel Ready How to Use the 70% Rule to Make Bold Decisions How to Find the Right Mentor and Build a Real Relationship How to Stand Out When Pitching Yourself How to Know When It’s Time to Pivot Your Business How to Build a Winning Team Without Doing Everything Yourself How to Audit Your Inner Circle for Growth and Clarity Making mistakes doesn’t mean you’ve failed, it means you’re showing up, learning, and trying something new. No success story is smooth or simple, but all of them prove that progress is always possible. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:57 How to Get Unstuck and Move Forward 04:17 When It’s Time to Pivot Your Career 05:50 Is Regret More Powerful Than Fear? 08:06 You Don’t Need To Be 100% Ready To Start 09:52 Are You Ever Really Ready? 11:29 Dream Big, But Start Where You Are 13:09 The Power of Believing in Your Vision 15:24 Be Delusionally Confident 16:29 How Mistakes Help You Iterate and Improve 18:30 How to Silence the People Who Doubt You 22:15 Teaching Kids to Embrace Failure 23:20 Rejection as Redirection 26:02 The Difference Between Innovating and Iterating 29:14 Build a Support System That Elevates You 31:51 How to Find Mentors Who Truly Guide You 33:55 Why Asking for Help Accelerates Growth 34:44 How Books Can Mentor You Too 38:21 The Four People Every Entrepreneur Needs 39:35 Why You Need the Right Peers Around You 41:58 Should You Start a Business with Family? 44:00 How to Audit Your Inner Circle 46:02 How Toxic People Drain Your Energy and Money 47:17 The Power of Taking Initiative 48:56 Don’t Let Your Past Limit Someone Else’s Future 51:19 How to Lead and Manage People Effectively 53:17 What Actually Gets You Hired Today? 57:51 Going the Extra Mile Sets You Apart 01:00:01 The Biggest Mistake Is Not Asking 01:04:03 Why So Many of Us Feel Unqualified 01:07:07 Pivoting Is the Secret to Success 01:10:13 How to Know When It’s Time to Pivot 01:11:53 Kim on Final Five Episode Resources: Kim Perell | Website Kim Perell | Instagram Kim Perell | Facebook Kim Perell | YouTube Kim Perell | LinkedIn Kim Perell | X Kim Perell | TikTok See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:29Jay Shetty?

  to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award winning airport lounges. Three times the points on dining and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve.

• 2:14Jay Shetty?

  Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank. N A member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Fear is paralyzing. I don't want to fail. I don't want to get rejected, but I always think back to, will I regret it more than not doing it? Will I look back one year from now if I'm in the same dead end job? I will regret that decision more than I fear making a decision and having it be the wrong one. How are you going to move forward if you don't put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

• 2:53Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning in to become happier, healthier and more healed. I am so excited today because I get to interview not only someone who's a powerhouse entrepreneur, someone who's a dear friend and a co-founder in mine and Rudi's sparkling tea brand, Juni. And I know so many of your fans, I hope you're actually drinking it right now while you're watching. But I want to introduce you to one of my dearest friends, someone that I have so much respect for, so much admiration for. Someone who truly walks the talk and has built incredible businesses. If you're someone who's stuck in a job that you hate, this episode is for you.

• 3:36Jay Shetty?

  If you're someone out there who has an idea or a passion, but you don't know how to get started. This episode is for you. And if you've already taken that leap, but you're struggling to figure out whether you're in the right business, what it means to be an entrepreneur, what it takes, this episode is for you. My guest today is Kim Perrow, nine time founder, two time bestselling author, investor in over a hundred companies and a proud mom of four. Kim built her first company from her kitchen table at 23, became a mom. Multi millionaire by thirty and sold her last company for two hundred and thirty five million dollars. Now she's helping the next generation of entrepreneurs, including me and Ravi,

• 4:20Jay Shetty?

  turn mistakes into million dollar lessons with her new book, Mistakes That Made Me A Millionaire: How To Transform Setbacks To Extraordinary Success. If you're listening or watching right now, I want you to go and grab a copy of the book. The link is in the comments. You won't regret it. Please welcome to On Purpose, Kim Perrow. Kim, it's great to have you here.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, Jim. So happy to be here.

• 4:45Jay Shetty?

  I know. I'm so excited to be back with you because we actually met when I was interviewing you for your first book ever, The Execution Factor. And we instantly connected and I love that an entrepreneur was out there talking about execution and actually doing stuff. And now here you are talking about mistakes, which again, I think is such an important thing to talk about. And where I want to start, and we'll get into Junie and all the amazing stuff that we're excited about. But where I really want to start is so much of my audience right now is probably listening or watching. They're feeling stuck in a job that they don't love. They might have an idea or maybe they don't even know what they're passionate about. And they just don't know where to start. What's the first thing you should do?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Yes, I totally relate. And there's so many people that I talk to that are saying how they are stuck. And I wrote, I mean, in the book, I talk about staying too long, right? Staying too long in a job you hate and the job you wake up and you dread going to. And how do you get out? And I call that my exit ramp strategy. Like, what's the exit ramp? How do I get from where I am today to where I want to be? And the first step starts with thinking, for me, where do I want to be in one year from today? It gets so overwhelming if you try to have it all mapped out. But if you can just think, what's my vision? Where do I want to be in one year? And then work your way backwards to today and take small, tiny steps in order to achieve it.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  It's more manageable. And I think a year is a good enough, you know, a nice enough amount of time to be able to put that first step into action and, and make that change that you want to make. But it starts with knowing and making, you know, that putting that line in the sand that I'm going to change my life.

• 6:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I remember, I'm thinking about when I've been. On the verge of wanting to quit or move and before I started doing all of this, I was in a corporate job. I was stable. I was safe. I didn't love it and I wasn't necessarily that successful. I was good at what I did, but it was gonna be a long time before I had a successful career trajectory. And I remember for me, it was asking that question. And also funnily enough, another question, which was kind of at the other extreme, which was, do I wanna be where everyone else is who's twenty years older than me in this company? So I would look at someone who's at the company who's ten, twenty years older, more senior than me. I would think,

• 7:14Jay Shetty?

  do I wanna be doing that when I'm twenty years older than myself? To also get a reality check, right?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, twenty years ago, how many times, I mean, you definitely shouldn't stay that long, right? But someone actually told me the other day, they were in a job for twenty years. I, I, I thought, oh my gosh, twenty years, right? My rule of thumb, if you're not earning and you're not learning, you gotta make a change. And if you're not there, say you've been in a job less than, less than three years, but over three years, you gotta really look at, what is your career path? Because you could just get stuck.

• 7:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  And you just end up staying. And honestly, I stayed too long in a job. I mean, I had sold my company. I ended up staying because it was comfortable. But I wasn't living the highest and best use of my skills and my talents. It was just easy and this, it was scary to make change, right?

• 8:04Jay Shetty?

  Well, I think that's what it is. Like, I think a lot of people, before we dive into some of the mistakes that made you a millionaire, I think for a lot of people, we're just scared because we don't see the options. We don't really know what's available. We maybe even have been in a workplace that's made us doubt our abilities. Maybe you've not been in an empowering place where you feel good about yourself. Maybe you have a boss that doesn't acknowledge you or your commitments, or maybe you have a team of people that have made you shrink a little bit, or maybe you've just ended up in a job based on something you studied at college and now you realize I don't even like this anymore. So when you're scared and you're facing fear. What do you do with that? Because it can keep you so paralyzed and so stuck.

• 8:48Jay Shetty?

  What do you do to break through that fear of saying, well, let me at least think about the next one year. Let me at least look at the options around me.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  I mean, fear is paralyzing, right? And I've had that happen for me, just paralyzing because I am scared. I don't want to fail. I don't want to get rejected. I don't want the pain that comes with trying something new. But I always think back to, will I regret it more than not doing it? Like, will I look back one year from now if I'm in the same dead-end job? And I hate my, my, you know, what I do every day. I will regret that decision more than I fear making a decision and having it be the wrong one. And so really thinking about is, is the regret, you know, bigger than the fear?

• 9:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. And I love that question and I've definitely sat with that. And I think that's what made me do what I do now, which was I would have regretted if I never tried my hand at media. And I'm look back now and I think, oh, my gosh, I would have been the craziest person in the world to not try. And you're so right, that regret is probably the only emotion stronger than fear.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:56Jay Shetty?

  And you have to kind of tap into that to unlock and get better.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and thinking to your point, in 20 years, I will regret staying here and regret doing. It's also about just staying in relationships. What you're going to look back and regret being in that too. Like how, but it's hard to change. I get it. Like I've been there. It's so hard to change. It's hard to make the decision. But again, making sure that you think about the regret of not making the decision is so much worse.

• 10:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Mistake number one, you say, is waiting to be 100% ready. I think this is, you, you hit the nail on the head with this one. I really, truly, truly believe that we're all wrapped up in what you call the four Ps, like the perfectionism, like wanting it to be perfect, brilliant, know everything about everything. We, you say we want to be, we procrastinate, like we'll just overthink the thing. How ready do you need to be in order to start? Like on a scale of one to 10, or actually, let's look at percentages, zero to 100%. What percentage ready do you need to be in order to start?

• 11:01Speaker 01

  I think when I look at being 100% ready, and it is mostly the fear, and I've been there. I wasn't ready when I started my first company. I mean, I was too young, I didn't have an experience, I'd never been a CEO. I didn't have any money. I definitely, I calculated because I was my type A personality, made a spreadsheet. It's like, not ready, Kim, you're not ready, you know? And at that point, you have to decide, are you ready enough? And the way I decided was, actually, I learned really early on. I had heard this Marine Corps Rule of Thumb, which is the 70% rule. And so it said, if you're 70% ready, you should take action. If you're 100% ready, you've already missed the opportunity.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  So I started using that rule, the 70% rule, to take action. It helped me balance analysis and action and move forward. And I still use it all the time. If I'm 70% ready, I take action, I move. And I assume I'm going to figure it out along the way. And if you think, so to your point, what's the percentage? 70%.

• 12:04Jay Shetty?

  I like that, I like that, yeah, that really resonates. I think that's right. I think one thing I love that you said about there is that I think most successful people, they know that they'll figure it out along the way. They don't believe that the first thing they make will be the best thing. Or they don't believe the first thing they put out will be the final thing. And I think when we're inexperienced, we think, no, the first thing I have to put out has to be my best thing. And you think about that and you go, how's that even possible? Right? Like, the first pair of shoes that Nike made were not their best shoes. The first drink that we made with Junie, like our first flavors were not our best flavors. Like, the first thing you make is never going to be the best, it's not going to be the last,

• 12:48Jay Shetty?

  and it's not going to be final. And so you had this vision of, I'll figure it out along the way. How does someone? Know they're seventy percent ready. Like if they were, if they had an idea, what is seventy percent classified? What do you think that's made up of?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  I think seventy percent is enough that you're still like perfecting the edges, right?

• 13:08Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  You're still thinking, oh, I could make a tweak to my deck or make a tweak to my business plan or make a, I'll wait a little bit longer. You know, you make up excuses. So I think as the point where you start making excuses for why you're not ready, that's the seventy percent.

• 13:21Jay Shetty?

  Right, right.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And I think it's not, I'm, have done nothing, obviously. You have to be seventy percent. So you have an idea, you've probably made a prototype, you're ready to go to market and then you convince yourself why you can't do it.

• 13:33Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  That's the point where you actually need to go and get customer feedback. Me and you both know, you gotta get out there, get the customer feedback, get market feedback because you're gonna likely change.

• 13:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Talk to me about those steps because those steps that you just laid out, I think are so important. You just said you gotta make a product, you gotta make a, you, you gotta make a prototype, you gotta get customer feedback. When you think about building something, whatever it may be, that is actually the fastest way to figure it out. And this idea of having a prototype or a minimum viable product is core. Like, so if you wanna write a book, write a blog post.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:10Jay Shetty?

  And put the blog post out there and see whether people connect with it, engage with it, what comments they put on it. If you wanna start a podcast, interview, I mean, when I first met you, I didn't have a podcast. I was interviewing people on Facebook Live.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:23Jay Shetty?

  And I could see what the comments were saying and I could engage with people and that gave me confidence to have an interview show and actually build a podcast. To me, that is the first step for anyone out there. It's like, whatever you wanna build, build the smallest, cheapest, easiest version of it and put it out there, right?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:41Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about some of the examples you've had to do that with.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, I think for me, it's dream big, really, really big. And then start really small, right? Start small and people ask me all the time. Do I need to have money to start a business? The answer is no. You actually don't today. I mean, you need to actually have the grit and the ability to get your product to market. So it could be a farmer's market. It doesn't matter. It could be going door to door. You just have to get a minimal viable product and understand if you actually someone will pay for it. Cause if not gonna pay for it, it's a hobby. You've always come there like, I got a great idea. Will someone pay for your idea if it's not here? It's a hobby, which is nice, but a business is here to make money.

• 15:23Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Yeah, I was talking about it with someone earlier today. We had, when we launched our smoothie at Air One, a lot of people come. And so I did this launch, if you remember, and we did with the book and our drinks and everything else at Air One. And we love them over there and we had a lot of people wait outside and they came in droves. And I met this one guy, he was like really excited to make content for me and like work with me. And he showed me some of his stuff and it looked cool. And I was like, cool, talk to my team and get connected. The next thing I know, he was on vacation and shooting Junie just for fun.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 15:56Jay Shetty?

  And then he sent me a picture and now he's editing so many things across different parts of our business. But it was the same thing. He showed me a minimum viable product.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:04Jay Shetty?

  So he went out and did a photo shoot. I never asked him to, no one told him to. He went and did it. He was on vacation. He shot Junie cans in the ocean, sent me pictures on DMs. I just saw it and I was like, guys, this picture is really great. I remember sending it to our chat and the whole team was like, oh, that's awesome. And I'm like, yeah, we just got it for free. Like this guy just made it and now he's working. So in any regard, I just feel like when you can build the simplest, easiest, cheapest version of what you believe in, that is the first step.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:32Jay Shetty?

  And then hear what people have to say. How do we get over that hunch that we're scared of what people are gonna think of what we put out there? Because when it's the easiest, cheapest version, we know it's not perfect. And now we're trying to like over justify and be like, yeah, but this isn't the final one. And it, but, but how do you allow yourself to put out something that's 70% knowing that people are gonna criticize, judge and have an opinion on it?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  I mean, they're gonna judge anyway, right? And so I, I look at it, the naysayers and the critics and the dream killers, they're gonna. Tell you why it's not gonna work, no matter what you do. When I started my first company, they're like, "That internet is a fad." Like, "That internet's gonna be nowhere." Obviously, the internet became so large. But back in the time, you just-

• 17:17Jay Shetty?

  It's crazy to think-

• 17:17Speaker 01

  It's crazy to think that people were like, "No, the internet company is gonna- It's a terrible idea, Kim, obviously." But your confidence in your idea has to be greater than anyone else's doubt. That is the bottom line. So you just have to believe more in what you're building than anyone else. It's like, that's all noise. You've just gotta shut out the noise and keep pushing towards your vision.

• 17:38Jay Shetty?

  What have you seen? Because you've also coached so many entrepreneurs, you've invested in so many companies, you continue to build so many companies yourself. What have you noticed about the difference between delusional confidence and delusional confidence that works? Because it almost feels like everyone who wins at life is delusional to some degree. They had to over-believe. But then you also see a subset of people who do over-believe, but there isn't anything there. Like, there isn't value there.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah-

• 18:10Jay Shetty?

  Where does that come in?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution's everything. So I get pitched all the time. "I got a great idea, great idea." "You know what? The next three months from now, they're gonna tell me I still have a great idea." And then I'll see them in a year. "Kim, I've got this amazing idea." Honestly, I want the guy, or the woman, the man, whoever it is, to come with me, say, "I've got a great idea," and I already started. But I started. I started my ba- my bathroom, I started my kitchen, I started my garage. I don't care where you start, but I actually had the courage to take the first step. It's easy to dream, it's hard to do. And so I want someone that is doing it.

• 18:44Jay Shetty?

  Yes. That's why when you're watching Shark Tank or Dragon's Den, the entrepreneurs that are the most impressive are the ones who already have sales data. Even if it's early days, the entrepreneurs are always more impressed by that than they are about someone who's like, "Well, we haven't put out a market yet, we don't know."

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:01Jay Shetty?

  And so that idea of learning and iterating, and I think it's like shifting our mindset, because I feel like when we were at school, when you handed in a report, that was it.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:11Jay Shetty?

  Right? So we were trained at school- That when you hand in a report or you do an exam, it's final, it's done. Whereas real life and business is you hand in your first version of a prototype. And then you iterate and you improve and you change and you evolve. And so it's a real shift for people's brains because we've all been conditioned to believe that, no, once you hand it in, that's it, that's your grade. Cause if you got a grade A, that's great. And if you got a grade C, that's it. You got a grade C on your scorecard. You didn't get to go, oh, well, now I'm gonna make that report seven times better. And I'm gonna change this paragraph and I'm gonna do this research. Whereas that's what real life's like.

• 19:51Jay Shetty?

  So how have you trained yourself and trained other people to change that mindset? Because I feel so many of us get lost in thinking, well, no, it's final, it's done. I don't have that ability to figure it out and make things better.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I think it's interesting to watch because people are trained, to your point, to want to be perfect. Right? These picture perfect, I get an A, I move on. But the reality, the most successful people that I know are making mistakes and iterating along the way. And that's where you get the most growth because you're putting yourself out there. You're actually being okay if you fail. And if you're okay to fail, you're probably twice as likely to succeed, right? The entrepreneurs that fail first are gonna, you know, statistically proven to do better the second time. So you actually should be putting yourself in positions that you might not be successful.

• 20:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I was watching a movie, you just, you just reminded me of something. I was watching The Founder again recently, which is one of my favorite movies. It's the story of Ray Kroc and how he built McDonald's. And if you haven't watched it, anyone who's listening or watching, make sure you go watch the movie. It's on Netflix, I think. But I was watching it again because it's, it's truly one of my favorite movies. And there's this scene in it where Ray Kroc, who's the, who never founded McDonald's, but built the business because he took it off the McDonald's brothers. But there's a scene where he's at like this members' club with his wife that his wife wants to go to. And all of his friends have heard about all his bad business ideas. And he's executed on them, but they've all failed. So McDonald's is like his seventh business or something like that. It's not his first.

• 21:29Jay Shetty?

  And so all the people around him are kind of laughing at him going, oh, is this another one of your franchise? Oh, cool franchise model like everyone's laughing it off. And in that moment, his wife kind of stands up for him and says, well, no, I think this time it's different. And they kind of listen to her because she thinks it's different. But it's so interesting that we're all scared of the people closest to us because they've seen us fail. And so making mistakes and failing is uncomfortable because the people around us kind of remind us of it. Like everyone at that table was like, Ray, is this another one of your crazy ideas? And so what do you do when you feel like the people closest to you are your biggest doubters? Because I think that's, we're not worried about the internet. We're not worried about a customer because you don't really even know that. You're worried about what your mom's gonna say like.

• 22:13Jay Shetty?

  I remember when I was quitting my safe job to do what I do today. My whole family was like, you know, you're getting married this year. Like you don't quit your job when you're getting married. Like that's so unsafe. Or I was hearing things like, well, you were so lucky to get that job after you lived as a monk. You know, you're not, it was so hard for you to get that job. Like now you're gonna leave that like, how are you gonna give that up? How are you gonna pay your mortgage? How are you gonna pay rent? Like, these are the things people are hearing. And so making mistakes and failing is hard because it's almost like everyone reminds you of your past mistakes. So what do you do? Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

• 22:55Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast.

• 23:41Jay Shetty?

  Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a seller or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in.

• 24:26Jay Shetty?

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• 25:08Speaker 01

  For me, when I was growing up, my dad is a serial entrepreneur and he was always on the brink of bankruptcy. And starting some, very much like Ray, he always got some idea, chasing some dream, bedding the farm. But at dinner, he would ask us, what was the worst thing that happened to you today? And so, from a very young age, he normally, I mean, it's very odd to ask, I have four children, right? If I asked him all the time, what's the worst thing that happened? I think it was entrepreneur therapy for my father, to be honest, but side note. It normalized failure for me because it became okay to fail. And so, how do we have the same conversation with ourselves? What's the worst thing that happened to you today? I mean, like, something, we know, we're in business. Something goes wrong every single day.

• 25:53Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  It's inevitable, but how you respond to it is what makes the difference. And so, if we can just look at the setbacks and the challenges and the things that go wrong as essential stepping stones to what will go right. And it's just, it's inevitable, right? Success isn't a straight line. It's a winding, curving road. And if you can continue to push forward and know that, okay, I'm gonna get rejected. This isn't gonna go my way. And start normalizing failure for yourself and making it okay. And with all the family, I mean, obviously, my family is embracing failure. I totally get in other, you know, families, obviously, that's not the case. But even when I started my company, they told me this is a terrible idea.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Like you, again, it goes back to, you just have to believe. Like, obviously, not to delusion. You have to get to market and ensure that it's viable. But don't listen to those naysayers.

• 26:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How did you, how do you then pass that on to your kids? Like you said, you wouldn't sit down with your kids and say, what's the worst thing that happened to you today? Like, you wouldn't teach it in the same way.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:00Jay Shetty?

  How were you thinking about teaching your kids about failure and making mistakes? And not judging themselves or worrying about judgment? Like, how do you do that? And I know they're young, but like you said, this starts young.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  It starts young. So for Will, I changed the dinner table conversation. I use something called pow, wow, bow, which is pow, the worst thing that happens to you, right? Wow, the best thing that happens to you. And bow, like, what are you grateful for? So it's a different take on the dinner table ritual. But it grounds them in understanding failure, failure and mistakes are normal. Great things happen. And it's a different way to teach them how to bounce back from the challenges.

• 27:39Jay Shetty?

  Well, you're almost teaching them that it's, it's one third. Like, it's a part of it.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:43Jay Shetty?

  But then there's something amazing that happens every day. And there's something to be grateful for, which is really, which is a much more complete view of life.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:51Jay Shetty?

  Rather than just looking at what went wrong.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 27:53Jay Shetty?

  But it is important. Yeah, I, I feel like, I'm trying to think about it where it happened in my life. Like, where I just, I feel like at school, it was probably my, I, I feel like it was my art teacher who just. He wanted things to be imperfect and raw.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Oh, that's amazing, actually.

• 28:09Jay Shetty?

  And I was never good at painting or drawing, so I always thought I was bad at art. And he made me realize how art was expression and it wasn't how well you could draw a self-portrait, which I can't do, or how well you draw a person. Like, he was like, that's not art. Art's expression and story and creativity. And so I think he took away that perfectionist idea. Because I think when we think of art, we think of the Mona Lisa. And then when you look at someone like Jackson Pollock, you're just like, that's just dots on a, you know, what is that? Or like lines and dots and, you know. But it's like, no, there was some expression, there was some theory behind that that worked. And whether you can appreciate or not, the idea is that art is imperfect, it's expressive. It's not always like a picture-perfect painting and the colors being amazing.

• 28:50Jay Shetty?

  So I look at my childhood and I go, where did I learn to fail and be okay with it? And even now, I know that we have to fail every single day to get to where we are in the content we put out, the podcasts we choose to do, everything. Like, it is the only way, and I always say to my team, thirty percent of our content always has to fail.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Oh, see?

• 29:12Jay Shetty?

  Because that's a percentage, and it's kind of seventy, thirty, same as yours. And I'm like, thirty percent of our content has to be experimental. Thirty percent of our content has to be experimental because we'll never discover the next style, format, genre of content if we just keep doing what we're doing right now. But I'm, I'm always trying to think, like, how do I help people really embrace that? Because it's easy to say and hard to do when you're like, well, Jay, if I fail, I may never get another shot. And I think that's how people feel, that if I get the door shut on my face, where am I gonna go? Like, if I go pitch my idea and it's not good enough, isn't that the end?

• 29:51Speaker 01

  No, and I think that's what we have wrong. Because as an investor and as an entrepreneur, I raise a lot of money and I invest my lot of money. You're going to get rejected a hundred times. So when people come and they said, oh, someone didn't like my idea, they want to invest five people. Listen, you got ninety-five more to go, right? This is a numbers game. So you have to understand that if you want to be successful, you're gonna have to get rejected a lot. And that's okay. It's honestly part of the process and knowing I usually say, you know, go for the no.

• 30:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Go for the no, just show up and try to get the no because you're putting yourself out there. You're getting better with each pitch. You're understanding what the investor wants or doesn't want. And by the time you get to a hundred, you got this nailed and you overcome your feel of rejection at the same time, right?

• 30:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And you learn so much. I remember yesterday we were pitching and working with one of our brands and we sat on a meeting, the team had come up with this really amazing, comprehensive deck. But I could see within 10 minutes, the CEO that we were talking to was, their head was in a different space. They were present, but I could tell that that wasn't turning their wheels. And so I was like, let's just put this aside and have a conversation. And we learned so much more through having a conversation rather than just delusionally just talking about what we'd planned. And I think that's part of it, too. It's like actually being present and going, well, I'm just gonna listen.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Listen.

• 31:09Jay Shetty?

  Because actually, if I just listen, I'm gonna learn so much more about what you actually want, what you need, how your brain works. And now I can be honest with myself and go, I remember actually years ago, when I was building my coaching company, I went to pitch at a coaching firm. This is so be up before my content. And I was pitching a corporate coaching session on emotional intelligence. And I was talking to the head buyer at this corporate company in HR. And they told me what they wanted. And I remember leaving the meeting go, I actually don't have what you want, like, but thanks so much. And I felt so proud of myself for being able to admit that I actually didn't have what they were looking for. And that was okay. But I would be able to find someone who was looking for what I was selling, if that makes sense.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 31:53Jay Shetty?

  And I think it's that belief of recognizing that there is space in the world for so much more than we think there is. I think we think there's only space for Nike. And then you think about it, you're like, wait a minute, there's Nike, there's Adidas, there's Reebok. There's New Balance, there's Converse, there's Lacoste. I can go on and on and on, but we, we kind of in our brain are wired to believe there's only two successful brands. There's Lululemon, there's, there's Viore, there's Aloe, there's, you know, it's like now it just starts expanding. And you could have said, well, oh, you could have said Atheliesia was already all done like five years ago. It's too saturated, but now you've got set up active, you've got fabletics.

• 32:35Jay Shetty?

  Like, you know, you, it's, you start recognizing, oh, there's a lot of space in the world.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  There's so much space and you don't have to innovate, but you could iterate. And that's what we have to understand is how do you iterate the next generation of that version of whatever it is you're trying to create. I mean, I've been pitched, people like this idea has already been gone, right? Like I was pitching ideas, someone was like, oh, this is never going to work. The idea is already, the idea is already had. I ended up investing because I bet on the people and it went to like a $30 billion market cap. So honestly, if someone tells you it's already been done, I don't believe you. Like it could be outdone, it could be differentiated, there's better marketing. There's always an opportunity to your point to create.

• 33:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. And that's what you've got to look for.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:16Jay Shetty?

  We're too worried about being first or being the best instead of being different.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 33:22Jay Shetty?

  And, and people are buying difference, not first or best.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  No, they would just want what makes you unique.

• 33:28Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Right? And like, why are you different?

• 33:30Jay Shetty?

  Why is it talking to me?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 33:32Jay Shetty?

  Why is it connecting to me?

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:33Jay Shetty?

  There's a reason why a brand speaks to you and connects with you more than another, no matter how big or small it may be.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. There's always opportunity.

• 33:42Jay Shetty?

  That's where we need to put our energy rather than like, oh my God, I'm going to be behind. Oh my God, I'm going to be last. The, the second mistake you talk about is this idea of trying to do it all alone.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, that's so hard. I know, but I think a lot of people can think like that. I mean, I grew up as a twin and from an early age, I was always in competition with my twin sister. And she was smarter and faster and better than me at basically everything. We took a test, she ended up being, you know, aced the test genetically were the same. So it didn't make any sense, but she got bussed off to the smart school and I stayed back because I didn't ace the test. And, you know, my friends called me, you know, said, you're not the smart one, which labels you. But then from an early age, I just became a lone wolf, right? Just like, okay, I'll just do everything on my own. I'm not going to try to compete with her. I'll play tennis, I'll swim, anything that's a lone sport.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Because it just didn't, like, I didn't want to compete. But that is such a mistake. Because trying to do everything alone will not get you very far. It's only till later, after I was burnt out, exhausted, working sixteen hours a day, by myself, at my kitchen table, that I learned that there's no way you will be truly successful until you surround yourself with the right people. And that was a game changer for me. And I think for so many people out there, for whatever reason, ego, or you just want to do it alone because you want to prove to the world that you can do it. Again, maybe, but statistically, you won't be able to do it alone.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  And until, for me, mentorship has been such a key factor in my, I mean, even us, we have a great mentor in our business. So just having a mentor, statistically, ninety-three percent of self-made millionaires have mentors. It's the lowest hanging fruit for any person that wants to be successful, right? And a mentor doesn't have to be someone that's hugely successful. It could be the local business vendor. It just needs someone that's a little bit ahead of you, right? And that's the key, is someone that you can learn from, who's been there, who's done that, who can teach you. Because you will not be successful alone. No one is.

• 35:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's the, I think that you just nailed it. That's the biggest mistake, I think, when we make trying to find mentors. Because we want to be mentored by the people we see on TV. And that person's either not accessible, available, doesn't have time. But also, they've found that success in such a different way. And you're so right that what you really want to do is talk to your local bakery, talk to your local design store, talk to your local, you know. And now everything's local, it's online. And there's so many companies and so many people that would be happy. Talk to me about how you build an effective relationship with a mentor, because I think people are struggling right now where some people don't have time. Everyone's very busy to give time mentors.

• 36:33Jay Shetty?

  Then mentors sometimes feel like everyone's just take, take, take, take, take. And then there's people saying, well, let me do some work for you. But then that comes with like a hidden agenda of like, oh, and you're going to give me free mentorship. So I think it's kind of messy space right now. Like, how do you actually build an effective mentoring relationship? How do you find one? And how do you build an effective relationship with one?

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Okay, so it was a good question. One, how do you find one? Three words, let's have coffee. In our case, tea, but yes. Because you can easily ask someone for 15 minutes of a coffee date or a tea dip date. That is like to me, and I've been doing this for 20 years, 15 minutes. Jay, do you want to have 15 minutes? Granted, you cannot email someone on TV and ask if they want to have 15 minutes of your time. But you could email someone, I guarantee five people in your network that you actually want to learn from and try to find a personal connection point. So if you email me and say, hey, Kim, you're a twin. I'm building something for twins, women in business, children under the age of 10. I need a personal connection and then I have the desire to mentor you.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  And it becomes, I mean, mentorship is personal. If there's a price tag, that's not a mentor, that's a consultant, right? So if someone's saying, I'll mentor you for $10,000, $2,000, $1,000, whatever it is, that's not a mentor. I mean, I mentor a lot of people. It is truly, I want the person to be successful. And so I'm going to dedicate my time to ensuring their success. And you want someone who actually cares about you, who really cares about you, what you're creating. And that type of mentorship is so priceless. And so finding that, I mean, if there's only one thing you do ever is finding that mentor, that person, because you're going to hit roadblocks, you call them. They, it's such a beautiful connection if you can find the right one.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  But again, if you call someone and they don't call you back, that's not the mentor.

• 38:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. And you, and you get hung up. You want to find the person who has time to give.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:33Jay Shetty?

  Who cares about you, who wants to do that. And just because someone doesn't wanna do that doesn't mean they're a bad person. They're just not your mentor.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:41Jay Shetty?

  Because they might be doing it for someone else.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, their time's not right. That's okay. And don't take it personally. Go out and find another one, right? Make a list of ten people that you'd love to mentor and start reaching out.

• 38:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  I mean, again, take action because I'm like, oh, Kim, I need a mentor. It's like, okay, well, show up and ask. I mean, the reason I have some of these amazing people that I mentor is because they just asked.

• 39:01Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Like, asking for help is so hard and people don't do it because they feel embarrassed. They don't wanna look stupid. They don't wanna show weakness. But asking for help is the one thing that will help you exponentially increase your success.

• 39:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and sometimes it's small things where like people don't even ask. Like I had this, so I was on tour recently and I was flying Delta. And one of the air stewards, at the end of her service, when we were about to land, she wrote me this really beautiful note and had left it near me because I'd fallen asleep on the flight. And so when I woke up, I read it and they always give you these, I think it's these little wings from Delta, something like that on top of it. So I read it and it was really, really sweet. And I said to her when I was walking out, it was like a full note, like it was a real letter. It was very, very sweet. And I just asked her on the way out, I was like, oh, hey, like, are you guys in here?

• 39:59Jay Shetty?

  Are you in town tonight? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, well, why don't you come to my show? And she ended up coming to the show. She had a great night. Like, it was amazing. It was a town that we had a big Junie presence in. I'm trying to remember what town it was, but what city it was. But it was just one of those moments where like, it was just a really thoughtful letter that really affected me and made, I didn't mentor her, but made me wanna reciprocate. And so I found that sometimes expressing something really beautifully and thoughtfully about what you're doing. And with a mentor like you who's giving great advice, follow that up with saying, Kim, you know, you told me to do this. I did this and this is what happened. Kim, you know, you told me to do this. I reached out to this person because the mentor needs to know

• 40:42Jay Shetty?

  that you're putting into practice. I think mentors get exhausted when they feel they're giving you time, they're giving you advice, they're giving you insight, but you're not moving.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I wouldn't mentor you very long.

• 40:51Jay Shetty?

  There you go. To talk to me about that relationship.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  No, I think, you know, I'm here to give great advice. I don't have a lot of time. If you're not going to take it, find a different mentor.

• 41:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  I'm not the mentor for you. But to be honest, it's, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

• 41:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  I'm here to help take you to the next level. And I want to be able to give my experience to someone else that, I mean, people have been so grateful with their time for me. And I feel so lucky because it's been such a gift that I want to give that and pay that forward. And so, I mean, even with the book, because I don't have enough time to mentor as many people as I would like to. I do have the time to write down what I've learned so other people don't have to make the same mistakes.

• 41:36Jay Shetty?

  Well, I think books are mentorship for that point. I think that's a great, great point that I feel in my life, some of my best mentors have been books.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 41:44Jay Shetty?

  I really believe that.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 41:46Jay Shetty?

  And I think this book's going to be a great mentor for people who are making mistakes, who want to be successful. And they're like, I want to be coached by, you know, a really successful entrepreneur. The book is that.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  It is.

• 41:57Jay Shetty?

  And I think we undervalue and underestimate the value you can get from a book.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 42:01Jay Shetty?

  I feel like I've been mentored by some of my favorite entrepreneurs who either died before I had the opportunity to meet them or are people that I haven't connected with through books.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Well, and especially if you're young, when I started, I had no idea what I was doing. So I would just read books of old, great operators and actually execute what they said, like Jack Welch. I mean, he was GE. This is 30 years ago. You're just looking, reading books and be like, okay, I'll just do what this guy says. I mean, he must know, right?

• 42:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  And so my hope is that to be able to share those experiences, so you could say, okay, I know what to do when I'm in a toxic relationship. When I don't, you know, have the right partner, like, I'm going to give you tips to get out of situations that I was in that I wish someone would have told me, right?

• 42:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Please help me, Kim. Okay, here's the playbook. I'm giving you the playbook. Read these 10 and then come back and tell me if you need more.

• 42:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What are you, when you say, don't try to do everything alone, finding a mentor is important. But then also finding a business partner is important sometimes, or like co-founders and connecting. What would you say you look for in a business partner or a co-founder?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  I've learned there are four pillars that you need, just as a house has four walls to stand. I think there's four great pillars that every successful person that I know needs, and one is a mentor. Two is family and friends, supportive family and friends, right? Three is the team. It doesn't matter if you're a solo entrepreneur. It could be a consultant, it could be someone in your network. And number four is peers. People that are actually in the day to day and can relate. Because my family can't relate to the trials that I go through every day. But a peer in the same category, in the same business, even in the same office, they can relate to what you're going through. So if you can find these core tenants, game changer. And so, once I started putting these people pillars into place for me,

• 43:53Speaker 01

  my business took off. But it's making space, right? It's saying, I'm too busy, I don't have time. I've heard it. I don't have time to do this, Kim. I'm too busy, I'm too busy. Well, I'm busy too.

• 44:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  But how do we prioritize people? Because that is how we will be able to grow exponentially.

• 44:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. I was actually saying to someone yesterday that one of the mistakes I've seen successful people make is the only friends they have are people they pay or people that have been there from day one. And those are both important parts. One's your team and one's your old school friends. But the peers part is so important because that's the only person that understands your current pain. So your person that you were friends with back in the day, they understand your journey. And my best friends are still my best friends from people I was friends with 20 years ago. That will always be there. I have a team that I love. I have great relationships with, very, very important to me. I really value and invest in. But the only person who can truly understand where I'm at in life is my peer.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:53Jay Shetty?

  Who's doing the same thing at the same level. And what's really interesting is those are the people you end up competing with rather than actually collaborating with.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:01Jay Shetty?

  And I was reading Bob Iger's book and he was talking about how at one point in time, and I may get a couple of the names wrong, but the principle was there. Bob Iger was saying that at one point, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, and a couple of other famous directors of their time used to preview their movies to each other.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 45:24Jay Shetty?

  So they would actually get into a little room, a theater room, watch the movie and ask for feedback.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the best advice ever.

• 45:30Jay Shetty?

  Ever, but that's because they were so confident that their style was so different that they didn't feel like they were competing. Does that make sense? Like, the reason why we're scared to do that today is you feel like someone will steal your idea. They trusted that these people were so creative and no one would need to steal the idea because everyone was a genius in that room. And so they actually trusted and respected each other's ideas.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  I love that. I love that. And I think if you can find those peers, that makes such a difference because no one can relate to what you're going through, except for the people already going through, and they can give you great advice.

• 46:02Jay Shetty?

  Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

• 46:07Speaker 03

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• 46:37Jay Shetty?

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• 47:22Jay Shetty?

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• 48:05Speaker 01

  Like that advice is, oh, I've just been in that situation. Let me tell you what to do in a hiring situation, in a partner situation. So I don't know if you should have a partner or not. I mean, that's a personal, like, values-based question. But having other people to collaborate on the highs and lows and kind of behind the scenes, right? Because your team, you can't, if things go wrong, you can't tell your team some of the things you would tell up here. You need to, you're gonna tell them one thing as a leader. Then you can tell your peers, like, oh, my gosh, it's crazy out there.

• 48:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. One of the mistakes you talk about is this idea of like, having a toxic inner circle. Like, you gotta get rid of that. And so you say that one of the mistakes is keeping toxic relationships in your inner circle. I wanted to ask you, what's your take on starting a business with a family member?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  It's hard. But I think anything could work as long as you have very clear roles and responsibilities, right? You know what you do, I know what I do. I mean, think about you and Roddy, obviously husband, wife. I actually seen it work really well if everyone knows their strength. The problem it doesn't work well is if you wanna do what I wanna do, and you think you could do it better.

• 49:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  And you're like, okay, this is never gonna work out, right? You need to trust that you will be in charge of this, I will be in charge of this, and the vision of responsibilities. Like, that's number one. So actually, I love family businesses because I like legacy, and I like, I mean, in the best-case scenario, my children will work with me, so I hope, right? That would be like the joy.

• 49:34Jay Shetty?

  That'd be so cute.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yes, it would be so cute, right? They're five, so I don't know, we've got some time.

• 49:38Jay Shetty?

  I'd take it ahead.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  But yes, but that would be the ultimate gift for me is to have something that I could leave to my children. However, it's really important to...

• 49:49Speaker 01

  You know, not impose what you think should be done. You really have to have trust.

• 49:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  And how it partnership's hard, right?

• 49:56Jay Shetty?

  So hard.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  So hard. So I think partnerships are really hard, but trusting that the other person will always act in your best interest, that they always will do what, you know, you have the same values. I think values are really important. Because you know where you're coming from all the time. And whether you have a partnership or not, but I do believe it's so much more fun to do it together.

• 50:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Right?

• 50:18Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Like having started my kitchen table alone is so lonely. Like entrepreneurship is so lonely. I'm now at the other side where I never want to do it alone. I want to do it with a team where you can share the joy and the fun and the challenges and the disappointments. Like you're just not alone, right?

• 50:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've had a lot of friends who've like built a business with a friend or a family member. And then it's gone toxic or difficult. Have you found any great mentorship or insight on how to disconnect from that relationship? Once it's gone bad, that's in the healthiest way possible.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, I've had a lot of toxic relationships over time. And sometimes you don't even know because they don't start toxic, right? They start as friends and then over time they go really badly. And then you're in this relationship and you don't know how to get out. But what I look to do is really annually, I audit my inner circle. Religious.

• 51:11Jay Shetty?

  Tell us about that.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Right? So every year I look at all the people in my business, all the people in my personal life that I'm spending time with. And if they energize and inspire me and encourage me to achieve my dreams, like I put a plus. Very simple. This is a very simple exercise. If they are negative, critical, tell me why it's not going to work. I put a minus and then I actively audit them out. No, it seems mean, you know, people like, what about my family? I know, I get it. But if you want to achieve great things, you will not be able to do it with toxic people around you. They will drag you down.

• 51:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's so true.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:48Jay Shetty?

  And it's hard because people go, how do I call out my family? How do I leave the people that I live with? In one sense.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's hard. But it's also about balance, right? So I understand that. I mean, that's an internal struggle that I can't help with. But how do you, you know, my advice is about balance. So if you are in a situation where you can't leave your parents, obviously, but you can minimize the time that you're spending with them, right? Because those thoughts that they're putting in your head, you know, once you leave, and this would happen to me when I was in a very toxic relationship, you think about it, it consumes you, right? And then it seeps into every part of your life, your business part, your personal life. And you have to eventually audit it out in order to be able to move forward, in order to grow. And it seems very harsh, but honestly, game changer.

• 52:39Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about the connection between toxic relationships in your life and money. How did the two connect?

• 52:46Speaker 01

  If you have toxic relationships, likely you're not going to have a lot of money.

• 52:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, why? How, talk to me about that connection and how you've seen it transpire.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  I think that having been in some toxic relationships, they're not looking out for your best interest. And if you want to live to your highest and best use and your greatest potential, you can't afford to have people that are draining your energy because you need that in order to create and ideate and innovate and build. So the more you have pressures that are dragging you down, the less likely you will be to be successful, unfortunately. I mean, it's just truth, right? And so I really look hard at who I spend time with. And surrounding myself with people that love me, want to see the best for me, believe in me. It doesn't mean they can't challenge me, which is great.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  But I don't want to be with someone that's going to tell me why my dreams aren't going to work.

• 53:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Like, that's not going to work because likelihood, I mean, you have to be so confident in your dreams that having other people talk in your ear all the time, terrible, right?

• 53:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. Unless they have constructive, thoughtful insight. Yeah, with love, it doesn't work. And I think that's spot on. I think, I love what you said, there's two sides to it. The one side is you've got to limit your time with them as well. It's agency because we can't blame our lack of success on the people around us because then we're not taking responsibility and agency for the change we can make. And I always say to people, for every one negative person in your life, find three positive people because you have the percentage. Now, twenty five percent of your life is spent with negative people, but seventy five percent of your life is surrounded by positive energy. And you can do that today. There's so many clubs and events and communities all around,

• 54:34Jay Shetty?

  just dotted everywhere, like entrepreneurial societies just popping up everywhere. Because all entrepreneurs are looking for community because ninety nine percent of them didn't have family support.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:45Jay Shetty?

  Because they had a crazy idea or they took a risk or whatever it may have been. So you're not alone. There's going to be other people like you in the community who are looking for that as well.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Right, and reaching out and being proactive, right? And it goes back to asking for help and being vulnerable and saying you don't know everything. Like, who wants to be with someone that knows everything, right? And usually the toxic people are self-imposing their limiting beliefs on you. They're telling you it's not going to work. You can't do it because that's what they think, not what you think.

• 55:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  And so it's trying to make sure that this is what they think or is what I think. And it's hard if they keep telling you what they think. So it it becomes noisy in your head, right?

• 55:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and it's what they think because someone told them that.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Right, so you gotta stop the pattern.

• 55:25Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, you gotta stop the pattern for your family, for your.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Yes, for your children, right?

• 55:30Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:32Jay Shetty?

  And people forget too, they try and, you know, I remember having this conversation with my mom because she left, she had to leave her country when she was sixteen years old and moved to England. And when I was moving to America at twenty eight, she was like, oh, my God, I can't believe like you're moving like full on like to another country and you know, all the rest of it. I was like, Mom, you did it when you were sixteen.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, come on.

• 55:54Jay Shetty?

  You did it when you were sixteen. And she did the same when I was becoming a monk at twenty two. She was like, you're going to India and you're going to be away and like, you know. And I was like, Mom, you moved when you were sixteen.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:03Jay Shetty?

  Like to a country with no education, no money, and you figured it out. Like, you know, and it's, and it was so amazing to see that like mom's protective love. Like, I know it came from a place of love, but it was like. But mum, you did something way harder than I'm doing.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's trying to protect you.

• 56:19Jay Shetty?

  She's trying to protect me. It's mum's love, but it's really interesting because it's counterintuitive

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:24Jay Shetty?

  to the fact that she had to do it.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:26Jay Shetty?

  She had to leave her parents to build a life for them and, you know, all the rest of it and be able to provide for her family, but we we forget that. And so sometimes we pass down, even though we lived a really difficult, challenging life, we pass down insecurity to our kids.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Right. Oh, yeah.

• 56:43Jay Shetty?

  Not passing down freedom.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:45Jay Shetty?

  Which is a really fascinating thing.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  It's interesting, right?

• 56:48Jay Shetty?

  You know what I mean?

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you're, it's.

• 56:51Jay Shetty?

  Because you want to pass down security because you didn't have it. Not realizing that it was the same thing that gave you the capacity and the intensity.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:00Jay Shetty?

  To become a resilient. Like when you said people got to have resilience and grit, you don't get resilience and grit by everything going your way. You get resilience and grit by being knocked down, things.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:10Jay Shetty?

  Being hard and difficult. Like, you know, that's what it takes to build muscle. So it's funny how we try and make everything easy for everyone else.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Even with my own children, making sure that, I mean, their life, obviously, it's not the same life I grew up in. We're like trying to pay the bills and go have heat. You know, they obviously don't have the same challenges. But how do we instill the same work ethic in them? That's what I'm thinking all the time. I mean, it's just like a struggle in my own mind. Like, what do I need to do? How to like, like, everything in our family is just looking at how do we instill and passion, right? Like, we want them to have passion about what they do and what they want to create. So we have to be very thoughtful and mindful about not self projecting how we grew up.

• 57:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Onto them.

• 57:54Jay Shetty?

  Definitely. Kim, how many people have you hired in your lifetime?

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Oh, thousands.

• 57:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Thousands.

• 58:00Jay Shetty?

  Thousands.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Thousands, yes. The last company I ran had over a thousand employees. I mean, thousands.

• 58:05Jay Shetty?

  And how many of them did you personally interview, look at resumes and actually get that deeply with?

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, over 20 years, probably. At least over five hundred, maybe more.

• 58:15Jay Shetty?

  When you manage people, how did you set up your teams? Like, how many people maximum do you personally lead and manage? Did you find a sweet spot?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, usually anything over eight was. I mean, if you have a thousand people globally, anything over eight starts to get very difficult.

• 58:30Jay Shetty?

  Why did you find eight manageable?

• 58:32Speaker 01

  I don't know, just because I could at least have one on ones with them. I could spend time with them. I could still have the personal connection to make sure that they knew the vision, they knew I cared. And it was, and usually it was because we had offices all around the world. So usually those eight were actually distributed. So I had a country manager in Tel Aviv, one in Australia. So depending on what the function was, but eight was where the sweet spot for me. I think some people can manage a lot more, but in order to really scale like a billion dollars on annual basis, that was where I found I was like, perfect.

• 59:05Jay Shetty?

  Wow, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that's fair. And when you think about, you only have seven days a week and you only have five work days.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:13Jay Shetty?

  If you're managing more than one person a day.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  It's very hard.

• 59:16Jay Shetty?

  It gets hard.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:17Jay Shetty?

  And so eight is, you know, at that like what?

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Probably the max, right? Some people would say like six is probably the best. The challenge is when you build from the ground up, everyone wants to report to you. So it becomes emotional too. And there's other factors that aren't just black and white, that aren't as easy as, okay, it's six and we're just gonna do that. It's like, well, you just have to, you have to be agile with the circumstance, right? And it makes a difference and you want to keep people motivated. And, and especially, I mean, acquired a lot of companies. And when you acquire companies, they don't want to be put under layers of people. There's different challenges with every phase of a business.

• 59:53Jay Shetty?

  So the reason I ask you that is because I actually have four resumes.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Are we gonna hire someone?

• 59:58Jay Shetty?

  And I want you to tell me.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:59Jay Shetty?

  Who we should be hiring.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, love it, love it.

• 1:00:02Jay Shetty?

  So I'm gonna hand you these, you can take a second to look through them.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  What's the position?

• 1:00:05Jay Shetty?

  These are all for different roles.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:07Jay Shetty?

  And one's for a creative director, one's a product manager, one's a marketing specialist, one's an operations manager. So they're not competing.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:14Jay Shetty?

  But I want you to be able to look through them and tell me what you think's good and bad. Because a lot of what we heard from our audience was that, gee, I'm applying to four hundred companies. And I feel like I'm ending up on a stack that never gets looked at. I don't know how to stand out.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  I'm gonna tell you how.

• 1:00:31Jay Shetty?

  Tell us what's standing out and what's not standing out.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Say I post a job on LinkedIn. I get 3,000 resumes. No way our hiring manager, anyone can go through them. If you want to stand out and you want that job, you better find the hiring manager, DM them, send them a letter. I don't care how you get ahold of them and tell them how bad you want that job. Because most people just send in the resume and hope someone's gonna call him. Nobody's calling you. If you really want that job, you will find the hiring person and get in there. So dare to be different. I think that goes with the guy that you said earlier that just started making content.

• 1:01:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  You have to be proactive. So forget just the resumes. No one's gonna look through three. I literally will not look through 3,000 resumes. I mean, maybe the hiring manager will somewhere, but.

• 1:01:17Jay Shetty?

  No, it's the truth.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Or find a contact of someone that you know that's in the company. You know, I think statistically, so many more hires are done by referrals, right? So who can refer you in? But I'm gonna look at the resumes, just so I can see.

• 1:01:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. Take a look at what you like and what you don't like.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Okay, they all look very good. But the one I'm going to hire is the product manager for growth.

• 1:01:37Jay Shetty?

  Why?

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  And I'll tell you why. Because they tell me in the resume that they did 120% year-over-year user growth. They increased adoption by 35. They gave me data that supported the job that I want to hire them for. I mean, honestly, they launched analytics feature resulting in 2.3 million in the first year. Everything is data-driven and I like that. I mean, they are a product manager of growth. They're gonna track the growth. Amazing. Six years, 12 years, none of it actually matters to me. I mean, honestly, like, great, you have experience, but I want to know what you are doing right now.

• 1:02:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  So I like that.

• 1:02:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you want to back the claim up. You can't just be like, I'm a marketing specialist with six years' experience.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Tell me the KPIs that you actually.

• 1:02:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Tell me what you did differently and how you grew the company. But the biggest thing I would also do, and this is what I regret and huge mistake, is, you know, you overlook it. I call it the POP. She looks perfect on paper, right? Amazing. You know how many people I've hired that look perfect on paper and then are disaster once they get in? Oh, my gosh, so many. So the one thing that, I mean, I talk about in the book. First, I have specific interview questions that I ask.

• 1:02:47Jay Shetty?

  Tell us some of your favorite ones.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Okay, so one would be in three months. What would I learn now that I will not learn during this interview process about you? Cause I, I don't know. I mean, you don't have so much time.

• 1:03:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  What would your last hiring manager tell me that the, they would want to change about you? And like, and then what would your peers want to change? I want to know things that are challenging. So I know if I'm going to be able to live with them. And what you need to change about people, what they need to change and are they self-aware?

• 1:03:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  And then, living or dead, who do you most admire? Because usually it's a reflection of who they want to become. And so I want to know who they admire because is that the type of person that I want to have in the company or not?

• 1:03:34Jay Shetty?

  Great questions.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Right? And so all of these little specific things that I've learned along the way, because so many people look great on paper. Just like online dating, they look so good. And then you get in, you're like, oh my gosh, you're terrible. You know, just because you have 20 years doesn't make a difference. What did you do in the last year?

• 1:03:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:03:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Well, I've been working for two years. That's, I mean, that's okay too, but I want to know that.

• 1:03:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  And then referrals. If you're hiring someone, we always skip and I, oh, the resume looks great. I don't need to do, oh, so not referrals. References. We look at hiring someone, we think, oh, they look amazing on paper. I don't need to do the references. Oh my gosh, huge mistake. Please call the references.

• 1:04:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Usually they can't say anything anyway, but if it's a really good and they really like the person, they'll tell you.

• 1:04:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Right? They're just not going to tell you if they don't like the person.

• 1:04:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll get a sign.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'll get a sign. You get a gut feeling of, I can't tell you, talk to you about Kim.

• 1:04:27Jay Shetty?

  But that's the thing. You want to get a 360 degree view, the person in person, the person on paper, the person through another person's lens.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:34Jay Shetty?

  It's not good enough to just look at one thing. And I, I loved your advice. By the way, I fully agree with you. I don't think I've ever got a job or a partnership or invested in a company or had a company invest in me in any way when it wasn't personal. Right? And that's one of your biggest mistakes that you talk about, which is believing that business isn't personal. You say business is always personal.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Always.

• 1:04:57Jay Shetty?

  And, and that comes down to this point because it's so easy to think, oh, no, but there's a system and there's rules to apply. And no, it's personal.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  It's always personal. If you call me and say, Kim, I have a great candidate, the probability that I take the interview is so high. And if you say, Kim, I've got a great investment, I will also take that. Everything is personal. If you're vouching for them, if I'm vouching for them, that means a lot, right?

• 1:05:24Jay Shetty?

  And that, that's a really important one. Anything you want to add to this?

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  I mean, no, I like who, I mean, it'd be interesting to see who you hire here.

• 1:05:31Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  But I will get, it's not on these resumes. If I have to bet, it's someone else. Somehow they get through the system. Somehow they go around, they go up, they go down. I don't know, but it's not someone that's coming in through 3,000 people that you can't find.

• 1:05:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a great point. It's a truly great point. I, I, I love it. And, and I hope it encourages anyone who's feeling stuck and lost right now and feeling like your resume is not being looked at. It's not because you're not good enough.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:05:55Jay Shetty?

  It's got, it's actually not a reflection of your resume or your skills. It's a reflection of the fact that people hire people they know, or people that know people they know. And in some way differentiating yourself that makes you stand out.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  Right. Yes. And finding a connection point. I love a personal connection point. I'm a much more likely to, to talk to you if you went to my, it's like there's a, there's a bias that you just have. You're from my hometown. You went to my school. You like my favorite sports team. Start going through. Your, your birthday's in March, like mine. Yay, me too. We're Pisces. Whatever that connection point that you can find and make it personal, grounded in personal connection, the likelihood you will be successful is far greater.

• 1:06:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I would always reach out to, when I was applying for jobs initially, I would always reach out to alumnus of my university who are at the company that I'd like to be at, because they're just three years ahead of me or five years ahead of me. And I'm like, hey, you went to the same school as me. I'd love to follow in your footsteps, 15 minutes coffee, like tea, right? Can I hang with you for 15 minutes? If you can't, I'd love an intro at the company. And all of a sudden, you've just skipped those 3,000 resumes that are sitting there and you're right at the top of the pile.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  The biggest mistake people make is not asking. I did that. When I wanted to go to college, I wanted to go to Duke and I had a family friend that had gone there. He was alumni. I didn't ask him to write me a recommendation because I just felt I was wasting his time. What a mistake. I didn't leverage the assets I had. Obviously, I didn't get in and I went to Pepperdine. But regardless, if I would have asked for help, if I would have asked someone for the job referral, for the contact, people want to help. I think it's our own internal voices telling ourselves that people don't want to help.

• 1:07:43Jay Shetty?

  So this might be uncomfortable, but I think it's important to say. So someone will sometimes present me an opportunity, but they'll present it in a way that's trying to make it out like it's mutually beneficial, but really it's just beneficial to them. And now it's not an ask, it's a presentation. Whereas if that person would have just asked and said, "Hey Jay, it would mean the world to me if you did this." It's gonna be really easy for me to say yes.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Because you want to help.

• 1:08:09Jay Shetty?

  Because I want to help. But I don't want to be made to feel like this is some mutually beneficial thing when it isn't. And I just want to be clear on that. And that happened to me yesterday with someone and I don't have the relationship with them to tell them that. But I was just thinking about that and I was like, no, be humble enough to ask. And it's something I've loved watching you do. You know, building a beverage company with us and everything. Like, I see you in every room. You're always happy to be the person who asks the most ridiculous question or the hardest question, despite being such a successful entrepreneur. And it's what makes you so successful because you're humble enough to ask the question. And people are willing to help you. I've seen it. We've had buyers, we've had investors, we've had friends, we've had board members, who are willing to help you and me because we both are okay being like, we don't know.

• 1:08:54Jay Shetty?

  Like, I don't walk into beverage as an industry and go, "Oh, because I am really good at doing podcasting, that means I really know what beverage is all about." It's like, I don't have a clue. And I'm okay with that. Like, that's not a weakness. That's my strength. Because now I'm willing to ask questions that I don't want. And so I think sometimes having humility in the ask is actually more endearing and attractive than trying to make it look like a proposition. That feels like it's... Does that make sense?

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Yes, for sure. It goes to mentorship too, right? Because...

• 1:09:27Jay Shetty?

  But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980.

• 1:09:45Jay Shetty?

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• 1:10:26Jay Shetty?

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• 1:11:40Jay Shetty?

  All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  We ask people all the time because we have no idea, right? We're asking our way to success over and over again. We're asking for the intro and some people could say no. People can say yes, but at least we asked. And just if you only take one thing away, just start asking.

• 1:12:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Again, what's the downside here? I don't want to get rejected. Again, it doesn't matter. How are you going to move forward if you don't put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable?

• 1:12:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's something you really live by and I watch you do all the time. And it's always so impressive to see someone so successful do that because and I think it's actually a trait of very successful people. They're very happy to know what they know and not know what they don't know.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:26Jay Shetty?

  And they're not trying to, and I think sometimes when we're on the come up, we feel we have to pretend like we know stuff in order to make sure that we don't look stupid. And then you end up looking stupid in the process.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Right. You don't want to show weakness, but the reality is I have no idea what I'm doing. And I'm learning along the way and I'm smart and I can pick it up very quickly. But I actually have to tell you that I have no idea what I'm doing.

• 1:12:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And that's the important part. You're smart and you pick things up quickly. That's really important. You know, one of the biggest mistakes, and this is the last one I want to talk about. There's 10 in the book that Kim tells personal stories, shares insights. Like she said, the interview questions you should ask, like the book is packed with so much great advice. And I want you to really think about the mistakes that she's sharing. But we all feel like we're not qualified. And I think women statistically feel more unqualified than men. And you write about this and talk about this. Talk to us about that because I think that's sometimes what trips us up so much.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  I spent a long time believing I was underqualified. And honestly, it stemmed back to my childhood because I was told I wasn't the smart one. And I was told that I was the dummy of the family. And I mean, that, those words haunt you, right? And so you create these labels that you take with you, which are not true. And it makes you second guess yourself all the time. Am I supposed to be in this room? Am I supposed to, am I, am I able to be a CEO of a tech company? Even though I don't know how to code? Am I able to be a CEO of a beverage brand? Even though I have no idea what I'm doing? But I feel that in my own career, believing I was underqualified, limited my ability to grow. So, you know, I was asked to be on a board seat.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  I said, no. Why? Because I believed I was underqualified. What a mistake I made because that was an amazing opportunity for growth, for intellectual understanding of how corporate boards work. And later, I met the person that asked me and they said, why didn't you take this board seat? And I made up some excuse why I couldn't. I'm too busy, you know, some excuse that normally I shouldn't have done. I said, listen, I didn't think I had the experience. It's a lot of MBAs and people that have been VCs. And they said, your experience as a CEO is exactly why we wanted you to be on the board. But I made up these excuses in my head, why I was not qualified enough. And after that happened, I said, I would never do that again. I would just say yes and figure it out.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  So the next time someone asked me on a board, obviously I said yes. But you have to overcome those limiting beliefs that you are not qualified enough. And yeah, women especially, right? We just don't think we, we think we need more experience. We think we need another degree. We think we need a better pitch. I mean, I love to invest in women startups. I don't even see a lot of them because the guys will come pitch with their deck at 70%. The women that I see, they've perfected that deck. It looks amazing. And I unfortunately, I don't want it to look amazing. I want, I know your business is going to change. So come, like just put yourself out there, right? Like you gotta just put yourself out there. Be okay getting rejected, even if you think you're underqualified.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter, do it anyway. You'll figure it out along the way. And so learning that for me was a huge learning lesson. And I talk about how do I overcome that? How do I start believing and gain the confidence that I am not underqualified? I'm just learning along the way.

• 1:15:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. It's such an empowering message to hear. Kim, is there anything I haven't asked you today that you wish I did? Or any story that you wanted to share that I haven't brought out of you?

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  I think the only one that maybe is just how important pivoting is to a business

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  or relationship or anything you're doing and how, listen, ninety percent of businesses pivot. I've invested over a hundred companies. Probably one hasn't pivoted the business model, one. Okay, so if you're out there with an idea or a business or a plan and you're stuck in the plan and you put your head in the sand, you say, market's changing and I'm not, I'm just gonna keep doing the same thing.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  That's a mistake because if you look at the most successful companies, YouTube started as a dating site, Twitter, podcast platform, Shopify started selling snowboards. I mean, every single company has pivoted. So you just have to have the courage to start. I mean, look at Judy, right?

• 1:16:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  We pivoted.

• 1:16:57Jay Shetty?

  So many times.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  So many times and we'll keep pivoting because that's what successful people do. So give yourself permission to pivot. I think I talk about this a lot. Failing to pivot is such a huge mistake. And recognizing when to pivot and when to not, I mean, that's a, that's a whole, I talk about that as well. And it's important to know that, but just knowing that it's okay to make change.

• 1:17:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  Right? Just not stay in the course. We've learned this so many times.

• 1:17:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  And we'll continue to make mistakes. We'll continue to pivot. We'll continue to change course. And that is what will make us successful.

• 1:17:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, we've done it with Judy. You do in every business. I mean, when I started, I used to make Facebook videos.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:39Jay Shetty?

  And no one today would ever say, yeah, you make Facebook videos. Like, you know, we just don't do that. You look at companies like Netflix and we both know Mark Randolph and he talks about how they were a DVD company.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:50Jay Shetty?

  Like they used to mail DVDs.

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  I know. Mark wrote the foreword to my book because he can relate so much to how was, how many mistakes they made, right? On the rise of Netflix and look, yeah, they started mail order DVDs. Now they're a streaming company.

• 1:18:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  That's an insane pivot.

• 1:18:07Jay Shetty?

  Totally. It's, it's so different. They're producing films now. They have their own original slate. They're, you know, it's, it's unbelievable. And that is the biggest thing. Everyone out there who's worrying about having the perfect business plan is that actually you've just got to believe in something that you want to commit your life to or commit the next couple of decades to. In the area of what you're trying to do, like, you know, they were trying to entertain and provide home entertainment and Netflix sending DVDs and being the platform it is today is still home entertainment. And so if you have a goal and a vision of how you're trying to help and change the world, like ours with Junie is we want people to have healthy habits, we want people to have healthy options, we want people to have happiness in their life, we want them to have a happy mind.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18:51Jay Shetty?

  And so if we want them to have that, that could mean so many different things.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:55Jay Shetty?

  It's, you know, it's bad when you just go, well, no, my only purpose is to build this one thing.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:19:01Jay Shetty?

  It's like, well, no, I'm standing for more. Talk to us about that of when you need to pivot and when you know you need to pivot and when you shouldn't. How, how do you get that balance right?

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  I think you need to know if you have product market fit. So if people are willing to buy the product, you're in a great place. The way you know if you need to pivot is are your sales declining? Or no sales at all. I mean, it's a revenue sign, right? Or are your sales dropping? Okay, well, that's not a good sign. You have to look outside and think, okay, the market's changing, the customers, something's changing and I have to find an area that I think I can win in and be bold enough to be able to try it, right? Like, I'm not saying overnight pivot your entire business, but you have to be able to start and try and test and learn and adapt. And I think today in the age of AI,

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  so many things, I mean, this isn't just pivoting businesses, this is pivoting how you think in your mind, right? Because AI is coming, so you need to develop an agile mind, flexible mind that when something happens, which is gonna do, I don't know what's gonna happen, but your mentality is that to adapt with it. And that will be the game changer for so many people. But if you're just trying to put your head in the sand, like, I'm just gonna do this, you will, this will not end well.

• 1:20:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, and again, it comes back to that data point of what you're measuring. Because if you're not looking at what customers are saying, it's not if it's always about how you feel after you do it or after you've built it, it doesn't really make a difference.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:41Jay Shetty?

  It it has to go back down to that. No, I love that. Kim, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So Kim Burrell, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best business or entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  No one is successful alone.

• 1:21:04Jay Shetty?

  That's great, great, great answer. Question number two, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  The worst advice that I've received is that you need a lot of capital to start a business.

• 1:21:17Jay Shetty?

  And you don't?

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  No. I started at my kitchen table. No.

• 1:21:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How much did you start with?

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  My grandma gave me a $10,000 loan.

• 1:21:27Jay Shetty?

  And that's what it took?

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  That's what it took to build a hundred million dollar company.

• 1:21:31Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. That's truly incredible.

• 1:21:34Speaker 01

  If I can do it, so can anyone else listening out there. You just have to have the courage.

• 1:21:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  To do it regardless of circumstance, regardless of everyone telling you you can't. I was blessed to have my nanny who bet on me and that's why I pay it forward and that's why I invest in others. And I acknowledge that it was amazing gift, but you do not need a lot of capital to start, especially today.

• 1:21:54Jay Shetty?

  I think a lot of people feel like it's hard because they're like, well, I don't know how to code. Code is cost a lot of money. Or I want to build an app or I want to build something with AI and I don't, you know, obviously to be able to do that. So how how do you get your head around that? Like, what does that take?

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  This is where you need, you're not gonna be able to do it alone.

• 1:22:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're gonna have to find.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  You're gonna have to find someone to partner with. For me, once I got out of the mindset of I'm a lone wolf, I'm gonna build this. And I hired and partnered with the CTO and I had a head of sales, like you have to find people that complement your weaknesses. And and your strengths, right? And that's where the game changes. You're not gonna be able to build. If you're not a coder, you have to find someone, a partner that can, right? I can't start a tech company and not be a CTO.

• 1:22:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, question number three. What's something you used to believe to be true about entrepreneurship? But it's not true anymore.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  I used to believe that skills beat passion. And now, as an entrepreneur, passion beats skill. You can learn skills. You cannot, that passion is-

• 1:22:57Jay Shetty?

  That's so good. You are the most passionate person I know, for sure.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  And that will drive you to success, regardless of circumstance.

• 1:23:04Jay Shetty?

  I, do you know what? I couldn't agree more. That's such a great, I'm so glad you sat and thought about that one. That's a great one, because I used to also hire people based on skills. And now I hire people who are passionate and coachable.

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:16Jay Shetty?

  More than skills.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  You can learn the skills, right?

• 1:23:17Jay Shetty?

  Skills are always changing, too. Like, AI is changing what skills are needed. Like, half the skills we just get AI to do. So what I need is a passionate person who's coachable, who wants to learn and be adaptable. You're so right. Great answer. Really, really great answer. I love that question. When it, when you get the answer fit, it's like- You find some, yeah, no, it's such a good one, because I feel like, yeah, for years, I used to just hire people based on skills. And then you either find out they're lying about the skills, or they don't really have the skills. Or they have the skills, but then they're not passionate to learn other skills, which you always need.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  You can't train passion.

• 1:23:48Jay Shetty?

  You can't train passion, yeah. You can't. Okay, so that's a question. Question number four. Why can't we train passion? Where, where does passion come from? Where, what is that? That's a great point. Even if there's not a question in it, it's a great point.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  I think everyone has different passions. So it's just making sure that when you're hiring someone, they're passionate about your vision. Because that passion will push you through. And I think that's most important as an entrepreneur. That is what's going to keep you going after everyone else is gonna give up.

• 1:24:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Right? And so that passion is that red thread, regardless of circumstance, that's gonna, that's going to put you and keep you going.

• 1:24:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. Uh, fifth and final question we asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  I would say to be generous on every occasion.

• 1:24:40Jay Shetty?

  It's a nice one to to let set to it. It almost feels like we're at the opposite where we're always so scarce with our energy, our time. Because everyone's struggling, it's hard. And so everyone, the book is called Mistakes That Made Me A Millionaire. How to Transform Setbacks Into Extraordinary Success. Kim Perell, go and grab your copy right now. Like I said, the book is in the comment section. You can go and order it right now. It's available. I am such a fan of Kim as a human, such a fan of Kim as a business person. And I truly believe that this is the mentor that you've been looking for, that's gonna

• 1:25:20Jay Shetty?

  help you get over those mistakes and those hurdles in your mind that keep coming up, whether it's the noise in your head, the noise from outside, the noise from family and friends. This book's gonna help you overcome that. Go and grab your copy right now. You won't regret it. Uh, Kim, thank you so much for tuning in and being here and just opening your heart and sharing your mind and insights. It's always such a joy to be with you. And I'm always, uh, I, you are the person that I think of as having the most and the best energy all the time. And so I'm so glad that the world's gonna get to experience it through this beautiful book. So thank you for writing it. Thank you for dedicating two years of your life of putting in all two decades worth of insight into it. So thank you so much.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:26:04Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you wanna be more and achieve more this year, go check it out right now.

• 1:26:23Speaker 05

  You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months, and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief. There's no sense of meaning and purpose. You sort of expected it and you would have been disappointed if it didn't happen.

• 1:26:34Speaker 06

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