Jay & Radhi Talk About Why Men Feel So Lonely

Today, Jay and Radhi explore why it feels like so many men are losing touch with real friendships, and the quiet epidemic of loneliness that often goes unnoticed. Jay shares surprising research showing that more men than ever report having few or no close friends and opens up about his own journey of maintaining meaningful male friendships across continents. Together, he and Radhi explore how cultural conditioning and social expectations have shaped the way men connect, often through shared activities rather than emotional honesty, and why vulnerability can still feel risky for so many. Through humor and genuine reflection, Jay and Radhi invite us to rethink what friendship really means, how we can create spaces of emotional safety, and build communities that feel like home. Jay reminds us that friendship isn’t innate; it’s something we grow into through practice, vulnerability, and care. In this episode, you'll learn: How to Build Real Male Friendships How to Be Vulnerable Without Fear How to Recognize When You’re Lonely How to Find Friends Who Match Your Energy How to Open Up Emotionally in Conversations Friendships don’t just happen; they grow through intention and care. If you’ve been feeling disconnected, take one step today, send that message, plan that coffee, open up a little more than usual. The courage to reach out might be exactly what someone else has been waiting for too. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:52 Why Do So Many Men Feel Lonely? 03:41 The Power of Male Vulnerability 06:58 Rethinking the Alpha Male Mindset 12:06 There’s No Growth Without Vulnerability 16:06 Men Need Friendship Dates Too! 21:35 Do You Truly Feel Seen? 25:33 How Loneliness Impacts Your Health 28:22 Why Women Often Build Stronger Social Circles 31:35 Learning How to Be a Better Friend Episode Resources: Radhi Devlukia | Website Radhi Devlukia | YouTube Radhi Devlukia | Instagram Radhi Devlukia | Facebook Radhi Devlukia | TikTok Joyfull A Really Good Cry See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:28Jay Shetty?

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• 1:39Speaker 01

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• 2:08Speaker 02

  The male loneliness epidemic? Yeah, that's me. I'm so lonely, I just...

• 2:16Speaker 03

  I got nobody to talk to, unfortunately. I wanna be wanted. I wanna be loved. I wanna be appreciated. I don't have nobody to talk to, gang. I don't got nobody to come for me, gang.

• 2:31Jay Shetty?

  Why are men so lonely?

• 2:34Speaker 04

  You don't need to have a hundred people at your birthday party. You need three people that you can go to when you're in your hardest moments.

• 2:40Jay Shetty?

  Fifteen percent of US men reported having no close friends.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  One of my friends said that one of her biggest icks is seeing a man cry.

• 2:49Jay Shetty?

  Being vulnerable has been a long-term difficulty.

• 2:52Speaker 04

  These days, women seem to want a man who is emotionally available but not emotional.

• 2:57Jay Shetty?

  Sometimes I just don't feel seen.

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Sometimes you do have to go outside of what you've been used to if you are trying something new with yourself.

• 3:03Jay Shetty?

  As a man, if you're listening to this right now and you're feeling lonely, I want you to know.

• 3:12Speaker 04

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to this week's episode of On Purpose with Joey Shetty and Radhi Devlukia. We have created these moments of conversation so that we can share a lot of the things that we discuss in our car journeys, when we're traveling places, when we have space and time to actually think about what's happening in the world, the conversations we're having with friends, and sharing all the things that people are finding a little bit difficult. And just, you know, having open-ended, curious conversations based on it.

• 3:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we wanted to find a space where we could share conversations we're having, and whether you're watching this on your own, or whether you're watching this with your partner, or whether you're watching this with a friend. We just wanted to engage in conversations that we think people are having. They may not know who to go to and where to turn to, and so we hope that this provides a space and an open forum to have those. And today's topic is why are men so lonely? And this is based on something that researchers are calling a friendship recession among men.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  That sounds sad.

• 4:17Jay Shetty?

  So just to set it up, fifteen percent of US men reported having no close friends.

• 4:23Speaker 04

  How many percent?

• 4:24Jay Shetty?

  Fifteen percent in 2021, which is up from three percent in 1990.

• 4:30Jay Shetty?

  Only thirteen percent of men have ten plus close friends.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 4:34Jay Shetty?

  Which is down from thirty-three percent in nineteen ninety. And one in four US men under thirty-five report feeling lonely. One in four men under thirty-five report feeling lonely, with US men ranking lonelier than peers in the most developed countries. And loneliness was declared a national epidemic by US Surgeon General Vivek Murthy in twenty twenty-three.

• 5:01Speaker 04

  That is honestly really sad, though. But who also knew that Akon was so right with the songs he was singing back in the day?

• 5:09Jay Shetty?

  What?

• 5:10Speaker 04

  He has a song Lonely, Mr. Lonely.

• 5:11Jay Shetty?

  I know, but I don't think people are gonna even remember that. You're aging yourself for that.

• 5:14Speaker 04

  Um, no, but you know.

• 5:16Jay Shetty?

  Justin Bieber has a show, a song called Lonely.

• 5:18Speaker 04

  Does he?

• 5:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's one of my favorite. I love that song.

• 5:21Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 5:21Jay Shetty?

  You know it?

• 5:22Speaker 04

  No.

• 5:22Jay Shetty?

  It's so good.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  But all that to say that men are really speaking about it, but we're just not listening.

• 5:28Jay Shetty?

  That's what, that's what we're.

• 5:29Speaker 04

  That's really what it is. People are somehow talking about it, but we're not listening. It's so interesting because with men, I noticed that men often travel in groups. Like recently, I've been laughing with my cousins because we go to the gym and there's these packs of men that come in. You know, girls will be alone, they'll be doing their own thing, but there are two, three, sometimes a pack of six men who are hyping each other up in the gym, working out. Like, I, I noticed that a lot, and, but I noticed it so much more in sports. And so when I was thinking about it, I realized that so many men connect through activities. Women connect through, we'll go get our nails done together. That's a space to talk. You can't do much else but talk. You go get a coffee. What do you do? You talk and have a coffee.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  And I think a lot of the way that women spend time together creates space for emotional conversations, creates space and time to have that. Whereas a lot of the time when men meet, they go to the pub to watch a game, they'll, they'll play an activity. It doesn't leave room or space to have a conversation, except for before, like, oh, did you watch that game? And then after it's like, oh yeah, I'm gonna go watch the other game. And so I think.

• 6:37Jay Shetty?

  Is that what men sound like to you?

• 6:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what they sound like. I'm just gonna have a pint. Um, but I think that the way that they spend time together kind of reflects what you're talking about.

• 6:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. That's, yeah, I never thought about it like that. You're right.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  Men get their nails done more together, okay?

• 6:53Jay Shetty?

  You're right that I have to make a concerted effort to find time to talk to my friends before or after we play pickleball or paddle, whatever it may be. So you're spot on. The way I like to spend time with my friends is we play sports together, we're outdoors together, we're watching a game together. So I have to make an added effort as a man who does not feel lonely. I have to make an added effort to spend time with my friends. Now, I get this question a lot because we also both moved. And so I live in L A now, we live in L A and we were born and raised in London. So all my best friends, i.e. my friends that know me the best, know me three sixty, all live in London.

• 7:34Jay Shetty?

  And one of them just moved to Dubai. And so when I tell people that I speak to my best mate, who was my best man at my wedding, three times a week, most people are absolutely shocked.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:47Jay Shetty?

  They're like, how? Now, I have to give credit because he also picks up, he also makes time, he also makes a massive effort. But the reality is that at one point I realized that if we were not talking two to three times a week, I would feel lonely because he is my closest friend. He does know me the best. He has known me for the last twenty years.

• 8:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:09Jay Shetty?

  And so for me, that setup has what's allowed me to not feel lonely because my life is busy. Also, I think when you get married, naturally, on the weeknights, I want to spend time with you.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:21Jay Shetty?

  And we're investing in our relationship and my friends are in relationships are also investing in their relationship. So if I'm now only seeing mates once a week, maybe once every two weeks, maybe once every month, how are we going to keep that relationship up? How am I not going to feel lonely? Because I don't have the time to be vulnerable. If I'm only seeing you once a month, I may not be confident or comfortable enough to open my heart, to be vulnerable. And I think for men in general, being vulnerable has been a long term difficulty.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  I think about a lot of the men that I've seen and who've had that kind of surface level connection, not surface level, but not a place of conversation with their friends where they can really speak about their heart. I'm actually feeling really like down today. Like you would not normally hear a man say that to their friend. How can someone who's used to doing these activities with their friends, who's used to connecting to them based on having a drink or going out and playing sport? How do you make that transition? Because I saw this trend on TikTok. And it was these guys calling, well, you know that goodnight trend, but then it also turned into the one where you call and say, I'm just calling to say goodnight to you. And then also there was a trend saying, oh, do you think I should get therapy? A guy calling and asking their friends, do you think I should get therapy?

• 9:34Speaker 04

  And it was really interesting because you could tell the guys who don't have that connection with their friends. They'd be like, oh, why are you being such a loser? Why do you go get?

• 9:42Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 9:42Speaker 04

  Or like, or, or saying, or saying, um, you know, making fun of it versus even believing that it could be true. And so how would a guy who's so used to having 20 years of this friendship, whereas based on jokes and laughter and not really talking about what's going on, make that switch? Cause that can be quite uncomfortable for a lot of people, I imagine.

• 10:02Jay Shetty?

  I mean, that you've raised such a good point, and I never saw that trend. But that's actually really sad for me that even in this day and age, when a man has plucked up the courage to say something like that, that it's met with that kind of reaction.

• 10:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:15Jay Shetty?

  Cause you'd hope that there are athletes today who've talked about their mental health.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  I understand that's okay to not be okay. It's time to talk, it's time to change.

• 10:24Speaker 06

  You know, you've got so much responsibility as an athlete to your team. You know, you gotta play at a certain level and your teammates counting on you. You got the pressure from the media.

• 10:35Speaker 07

  Everybody's going through something and everybody, uh, you know, has things that you can't see, you can't touch.

• 10:41Speaker 08

  It is time for sport to accept its responsibility with this issue.

• 10:46Jay Shetty?

  There are athletes and sports and actors, musicians, male, who've spoken about the challenges with their mental health on all their platforms. I feel like we're living at a time where some of the toughest, strongest men on the planet talk about these things. And so I think we've got to shift the narrative that when you say something vulnerable, that you're weak or that in some way you're a loser or in some way that you're not strong. But I think as we have these athletes and superstars talking about their pain, I think there's also been a trend online, which is of the alpha male, which is this idea of if you're a high value man, you don't talk about your feelings.

• 11:31Jay Shetty?

  You just have discipline and you break through it. And I always find this really, really interesting because I consider myself to be quite alpha and I consider myself to be quite. Emotionally engaged. And so I've always tried to do both. And I don't see them as a paradox, I see both as strength.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 11:50Jay Shetty?

  So I'm disciplined, I enjoy working out, I enjoy competition.

• 11:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:55Jay Shetty?

  I love all those things. Yeah, you're you're nodding because you're like, yeah.

• 11:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:59Jay Shetty?

  I'm extremely competitive. And at the same time, I think talking about my feelings is really important. Emotional vulnerability is really important. And being able to make space for my friends and share is really important. So I think a part of it is, first of all, accepting within yourself that it's okay.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  Right.

• 12:19Jay Shetty?

  I think even before you start looking for people to share it with, do you still think it's a weakness?

• 12:24Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 12:25Jay Shetty?

  Because if you think it's a weakness, then when you share it and someone rejects it, you're just gonna go and climb into your shell even more.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:33Jay Shetty?

  But if you think it's a strength and you believe it's value and you believe it's something you need. I actually, this is the hardest advice to give, but it's true. You can have your friends that you play football with and have bants with and have jokes with. And if they're not the ones that you can share this with, you may have to find a separate group of friends where you can talk about these things.

• 12:54Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 12:55Jay Shetty?

  And that doesn't mean you abandon your old friends. It doesn't mean your old friends are bad. It doesn't mean you have to leave them. It just means that you may have to start creating a community of new men that you can have this community with.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:07Jay Shetty?

  Because if you're being met with, you're a loser. Dude, you don't need therapy, you just need, you know, to get a pint down the pub. Like, if you're if you're being met with that, then that's not an easy wall to break down.

• 13:21Speaker 04

  Oh, it's not.

• 13:22Jay Shetty?

  And first, you should try with your friends, you should try with the friends you have. But if you don't, you are gonna have to start constructing a new group.

• 13:29Speaker 04

  I've been seeing these really cool, uh, I don't know why I'm getting these ads, but these really cool ads that, not ads, but you know, when there are retreats and stuff happening. And there are so many men's retreats that happen.

• 13:40Jay Shetty?

  There are, yes.

• 13:40Speaker 04

  And I think, and you know, I remember recommending this to a friend whose partner was struggling. And I was saying, why don't you go on, why don't you meet completely new people who are going somewhere for the for the same reason? If someone's going to a men's retreat, that means that they are lacking male friends. They are wanting to speak to people who are wanting to open their heart, connect, heal things from their past, whatever it is. But sometimes you do have to go outside of what you've been used to if you are trying something new with yourself. And I think the other part that I was gonna mention that I remembered of seeing online was, you know, there are all these really funny, I find them really funny, but at the same time, I can see how for a man who's trying to be more emotional, it can make you shut down.

• 14:20Speaker 04

  It's, you know, when you have to now treat your man like a princess. And essentially saying that men are being too emotional these days. And I think these days, women seem to want a man who is emotionally available, but not emotional.

• 14:36Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 14:36Speaker 04

  So they want someone who's emotionally available, like, oh, I need him to understand me and I want him to get where I'm coming from and I want him to be attuned to me, but then I don't want him to cry. Like, I don't want, I don't want him to, when we're talking about icks, one of my friends said that one of her biggest icks is seeing a man cry or like be emotional.

• 14:54Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  And I was like, oh, wow, like, okay, that's, it's so interesting. But, but I do think whether a woman says it or not, there's quite, there's quite a few people who feel that way, where a man crying is still seen as being a weakness, but I still want you to be emotionally available to me. And so I think for men seeing stuff like that online, we think it's, people think it's just funny, but I think that can be really difficult because it stops you then from also being okay with the idea that I should be able to cry, be unhappy, show that I'm feeling upset, depressed, whatever it is. And so I think a lot of what we see online can really play a role in how we feel.

• 15:34Jay Shetty?

  And that's what makes it hard for men because they then think, now whether that's, sometimes it's so interesting as well because social media perception is also not reality.

• 15:42Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 15:43Jay Shetty?

  But then we start believing that is, and then men go, God, I can't share that emotion around her because she's gonna think I'm weak, but then I'm carrying this load and I don't know what to do with it.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  Which then changes me as a partner, as a person, being able to connect to other people.

• 15:58Jay Shetty?

  And you would hope, you, you taught me this and I, I loved it when you said it to me years ago, which was this idea that, and that's why your podcast is called A Really Good Cry, was this idea that crying and laughing. Are actually just the same.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Two sides of the same coin.

• 16:14Jay Shetty?

  Their expressions of an emotion.

• 16:15Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 16:16Jay Shetty?

  And when you think something's, when you, when you think something's really funny, you don't have to think about laughing. Like you don't go, oh, that's really funny. I'm now gonna laugh. You just laugh because it's funny. You don't have to think about crying. Crying is something that happens when something affects you in your gut or your heart, your emotion. You just cry. You don't go, oh, now I'm gonna cry.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  You also don't stop laughter, but people stop tears.

• 16:39Jay Shetty?

  Correct, yeah. Or people will say, stop crying, stop crying. You never say to someone, stop laughing, stop laughing. It would be a weird thing to say.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and we say, oh, no, no, don't cry about that. Don't cry about that. It's okay. And it's like, you wouldn't say, don't laugh about that, you know, unless you're saying something offensive. This was earlier this year, but Kendrick Lamar did a cover for Harper's Bazaar. And in that piece, he talked about.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Wait, they not like us. They not like us. Oh, no, wrong person.

• 17:05Jay Shetty?

  That is the right person.

• 17:06Speaker 04

  Oh, there you go.

• 17:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Good, all right. So he said, I'm sure he's gonna be really impressed by that. Uh, he said, my tears is all on the internet. So Lamar says in reference to a viral moment where he cried on camera. And he goes, and now I look back and I love that moment. I love that that happened because it showed me in real time expressing myself and seeing all the work that I put forth actually come to life in that moment.

• 17:34Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 17:35Jay Shetty?

  Right. And that's Kendrick Lamar, like, who's, you know, won, like, I don't know how many Grammys this year and performed at the Super Bowl. And he's saying that and he goes on to say, my pops, he was tough. He never showed weakness. And I learned to experience that. But for what I do, there is certainly no growth without vulnerability.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 17:55Jay Shetty?

  If I understood the power of vulnerability earlier, I could have had more depth and more reach to the guys that was around me.

• 18:04Speaker 04

  I don't know whether I'm more shocked at that or the fact that you were at Drake concert last week and now you're quoting Kendrick Lamar.

• 18:09Jay Shetty?

  Why are you trying to start beef?

• 18:10Speaker 04

  I'm not, I'm just saying.

• 18:12Jay Shetty?

  Why are you starting beef, Robbie?

• 18:15Speaker 04

  But honestly, Kendrick, those are some bars.

• 18:17Jay Shetty?

  Right, it's just, it's, I'm sharing that because I hope it's empowering for men because you see, you know, all the conversation that Kendrick is like, ah, yeah, rapper, he's having this rap battle, he's at the Super Bowl, you know, all this stuff and it's like, but this is what he's saying about himself and his life. And he's talking about how his dad was tough. His dad never showed any weakness and he learned that, but he's actually saying, I wish I learned the power of vulnerability earlier. And so I'm like, that's coming from, you know.

• 18:45Speaker 04

  It's really difficult for people who, you know, just thinking about him as a rapper, but it's, I guess if someone who's a rapper and in that scene and in that environment can do something like that, it gives hope to people who may be in an environment like we were talking about before, that find it difficult to break out of that same cycle of spending time with people. But I do think that the community is, is the key factor to feeling like you can open up. And I think building community is one of the hardest things that people find. And that's why I think loneliness, especially in men, if they're, if they're not in a, if they're not in a partnership that also forces them to come together with couples and meet other men, it's like, where do people meet other people?

• 19:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that's why, that's why I think, but I think the other challenges for men is that I think women like to gather in groups, but sometimes men have better conversations one to one. I was at dinner last night with a guy that, uh, someone that I, I became friends with early on, we were part of a meditation group that I was teaching. I bumped into him randomly at a grocery store once, we spent three hours that evening together.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Oh, wow, yeah.

• 19:48Jay Shetty?

  We both have crazy travel schedules, we don't see each other often, but we happen to be in London, he's leaving today. And we made time to go to dinner together and I'm not, we had, we both had the best time.

• 19:58Speaker 04

  It was so nice.

• 19:59Jay Shetty?

  And we probably spent three hours talking, it was full on open conversation, like we dove in deep in thirty minutes. And we both walked away going, we need to do that more. And I feel like that, like when I'm with a man one on one and we're at the same frequency, I can lock in. Actually, when I'm in group environments, I really struggle because you're trying to create a cohesive environment, but there may be two guys over there who just want to talk about the football.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 20:23Jay Shetty?

  There may be another two guys over there who just want to talk about whatever they, you know, whatever's happening at work or whatever it is. And then there's a couple of you that actually wanna go deeper, but you can't because you can't direct what eight people are doing.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  It throws off the frequency.

• 20:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, whereas I feel like women will all talk about one subject.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 20:38Jay Shetty?

  Together, whereas I think a lot of men I know personally that I feel building one-to-one friendships is the space where I get to do that. And it was interesting because this was talking about emotional conditioning and how girls and boys start out on the same trajectory of prioritizing friendships, but boys feel pressure to give up their same-sex friendships because it feels girly.

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 21:03Jay Shetty?

  So that idea of like hanging out together and us talking about our feelings, boys are conditioned to feel that that's a girly thing to do.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  What you felt with that guy is called a bromance.

• 21:13Jay Shetty?

  One thing I learned as well was I needed, I needed friends in my industry because they also have a shorthand for how I feel.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 21:22Jay Shetty?

  And that's how he felt too. It's like having friends that are in a similar industry.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  You already have something in common. You already have an understanding.

• 21:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:29Speaker 04

  But you know, I think women feel that way too. I I've been speaking about a friend that I've made recently who feels, I feel like I'm known for so long, but when you feel that connection to a friend, when you feel understood by them, when you feel like you can share a lot of yourself that you can't normally with other people. It really is, I think friendships are so close to the feelings of romantic relationships. And I don't mean that in a weird way, but it really is, it sparks the same excitement and because you feel understood. And I remember you saying this, I think on my podcast where you said, not everyone is supposed to understand you and love is understanding. And love is also so special that not, you don't feel it with so many people.

• 22:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 04

  And so, yes, you feel in a romantic partnership, but how beautiful if you can actually feel it with friendships too. And I think women, women are feeling lonely as well. I think finding community, yeah, I think finding community for women is so difficult. Because in women, you also have this aspect of. Unfortunately, where gossip is a big part of connection. And I think that makes a lot of women feel insecure in friendships because gossip ends up being a big part of it. Now.

• 22:37Jay Shetty?

  Do you feel like if you say something to someone, they're gonna tell someone else in the group? And that trust being broken makes it uncomfortable to actually be vulnerable?

• 22:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think so. I I think that's a big part of female friendship, unfortunately, especially what I grew up with. And and I think this one to one connection, what you said, is very important. Because even for women, finding that one to one connection where you feel you can confide in this person, I think for women, a big thing is trust. That can I trust what I'm telling this girl? She's not judging me. She's not she's not um gonna share it with anybody else. I think that's something that's quite rare.

• 23:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, I I it's it's interesting hearing about it from that perspective. I found the one to one thing to be the solver for this. I've recommended it to so many of my male friends and I've said, guys, we always hang out in big groups and.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  I used to be a pack person.

• 23:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 04

  You know, I mean, I've always loved hanging out in big groups and I've recently started spending individual time with someone that I really want to spend individual time with and it it makes such a difference.

• 23:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, I I think it's I think it's also like you have to find people who want to do this. So not every person I go out to dinner with like yesterday is somewhere where I walk away going, oh, we could do this anytime. Because maybe the conversation stays surface level. So there is a bit of frequency matching.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  You have to assess the situation.

• 23:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, like, I don't think, and I also don't think every friend of yours to be a real friend has to have a deep conversation with. There are friends that I'm happy to call up and be like, did you see what Manchester United just did? Like, I want to have that relationship with them. And I would love if that can also go to, mate, how are you feeling today? But not every relationship has to do that. And so sometimes I also feel we put too much pressure

• 24:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:15Jay Shetty?

  on everyone in our life to be everything.

• 24:18Speaker 04

  What do you think are some good questions then that people could ask themselves, like men? What are some good questions that men could ask themselves to understand, am I feeling like, like, am I feeling like I don't have a good connection with people? But then also questions that they can maybe open up this idea of vulnerability with their friends with that doesn't feel too scary or too intense.

• 24:44Jay Shetty?

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• 26:11Jay Shetty?

  I think men that are lonely is, do you have... So if a man wants to know whether he's lonely or not, do you have three friends that you could call at 3am and share something that you're struggling with?

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Hmm, even one friend.

• 26:32Jay Shetty?

  Even one friend?

• 26:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:34Jay Shetty?

  That's something I would look at. And then I would also ask for a man, do you have one friend that you could call to share your biggest win with? Because sometimes that can be harder.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  Yes, good one.

• 26:48Jay Shetty?

  Because sharing your pain is hard, but sharing your success is harder because it can come across as bravado, arrogant.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:57Jay Shetty?

  Et cetera. And so you may feel you have to play your success down. And so I think that's what I would look at. So that helps you figure out whether you're lonely or not. And then it's like... Do you feel you have someone in your life who doesn't judge you? And gives you the space to be all of yourself? And that's what you said, women need that too. We all want a space in our life where we feel seen and not judged.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly.

• 27:23Jay Shetty?

  Actually, you say this, this is really interesting. This guy came up to me.

• 27:28Jay Shetty?

  Uh, he worked at the restaurant that I went to last night and he came up to me afterwards when I was leaving and he said, hey, I listen to the podcast, really love what you're doing. Me and my wife love what you and your wife are doing. And he said, but sometimes I just don't feel seen.

• 27:42Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 27:43Jay Shetty?

  And he said, sometimes I feel only successful people feel seen.

• 27:49Jay Shetty?

  And I'm still trying to become successful and I'm not there yet. And, and I said to him, I said, actually, success for people also don't feel seen because they feel seen through a particular lens. Whereas the most seen I feel is when I'm with my wife or with um a deep old friend that I know and they see all of me.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 28:09Jay Shetty?

  And I was like, you're gonna feel more seen if you spend time with people deeply and individually than you are if you have a global brand.

• 28:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, if you have lots of eyes on you, doesn't mean you feel seen.

• 28:19Jay Shetty?

  Doesn't mean you feel seen.

• 28:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:21Jay Shetty?

  It's like you, you have views, but you don't feel seen.

• 28:23Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 28:24Jay Shetty?

  And because people are ultimately catching you for thirty seconds and making a judgment on you.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 28:30Jay Shetty?

  And so anyway, I, I know I got off on a tangent, but.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  No, but that's really, that's such a good point. I think, you know, even when you're younger, you think you need more friends and you have to have multiple people that you can do different things with. But as you get older, you realize that it's not necessarily about having how many people you can invite to your birthday. I was planning my birthday recently. And I remember calling, I was like, I think I have like eight friends who I can call here, maybe. And I don't even know if all of them are gonna end up coming and. At that, at that time, it made me realise how, how thankful I am for just those eight friends. It wasn't, oh, I've got twenty family members coming and like eight friends coming. It was, oh, wow, I've got eight friends that are here that I want to spend time with. And then I was trying to collect other people and add people to it that I was like, do I really need these people here?

• 29:17Speaker 04

  Or am I trying to collect numbers to feel like I've got more friends unnecessarily? And so I think the, the views versus being seen is a really important part of when you're thinking about friendships. Because you don't need to have a hundred people at your birthday party. You need three people that you can go to when you're in your hardest moments. When you feel like you've done something that you need to talk about, that you're judging yourself about, that you feel that person's not going to judge you for. And that's so much more important than having the thirty friends at your birthday party.

• 29:45Jay Shetty?

  I'm so glad you made my tangent relevant.

• 29:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:48Jay Shetty?

  It was really good. That was really good. But no, that's exactly it. Like, I think, I think a lot of men feel lonely because we're always in crowds. That's the idea, that you're always in groups. And so that same idea that you're saying is that we've always been taught that more friends means more happiness.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:03Jay Shetty?

  And less friends can actually equal more happiness if there's more intimacy and more depth to that relationship. Loneliness is linked to depression, anxiety, dementia, diabetes, stroke and heart disease. And loneliness can be as harmful as smoking fifteen cigarettes per day.

• 30:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, when I worked at the hospital, I would do these clinics for elderly and it would be to do with them not eating. And it was so interesting, the underweight people that used to come in, in the elderly clinics would be like eighty percent men and only twenty percent women. Because they talk about how, especially for men, their eating habits, the way that they connect to people. If they're not having that interaction and if their partner's passed away or whatever. They lose the will to do much else in their life. And so it was really interesting seeing how eighty percent of those people that were coming in at an older state were people who were lonely, spent most of their time in their home.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  And even when it came to dementia, it says being in a community or feeling a sense of purpose in your life, whether it is within a community or whether it is with your partner, completely changes the trajectory of your, the progression of dementia. And your longevity and the feeling of being wanted and needed in this world is so important to help keep your mental state alive. And so for men especially, I think there's a, I've seen so many older women who are able to get back up faster once their partners died. But I think naturally for a man, from what I've seen, it ends up being a lot more difficult. So I think that's another reason why having friends is so important.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  Don't think about it for now, you have to think about it for your future of when you are in a situation where maybe you have to be alone or away from your partner. Do I have people that I'm going to be able to turn to in those moments? Because that's what community is supposed to be there for.

• 31:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and, and, and the research shows that men are happier when they're married, but women are unhappier when they're married.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  Really?

• 32:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, or, or at least.

• 32:05Speaker 04

  Oh, my lord.

• 32:08Jay Shetty?

  I think the actual study says that men live longer when they're married. And women don't live as long when they're married.

• 32:13Speaker 04

  I've seen that.

• 32:14Jay Shetty?

  Women carry on more stress.

• 32:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:16Jay Shetty?

  And men are actually helped by the marriage.

• 32:19Speaker 04

  You notice that when people lose their partners at a young age or even at an old age, men struggle so much more than women do. Women are just used to going through the pain. They also are used to most of the systems and the things that they have to do in the house, like they're able to adapt faster. Whereas I think for men, that's really difficult.

• 32:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, this one was really interesting and it's kind of based on what you're saying. There's this. Jeffrey Hall, a professor of communication studies at the University of Kansas, who studies friendships. He previously found it can take 200 hours to make a close friend.

• 32:50Speaker 04

  200 hours.

• 32:51Jay Shetty?

  And he talks about how men rely on their wives to develop the social calendar. So they think he'll do it and I don't have to do it. And he says that there's a challenge in their skill set. So it's the idea that women plan the social calendar and men just tag along to whatever the women plan. And so they don't ever think about, well, I need to find a man, I need to do this, I need to do that. My wife's kind of planned the weekend, we'll just do whatever she says. And so he doesn't really spend that much time around men.

• 33:21Speaker 04

  You're so good at planning your social calendar.

• 33:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  But you've really had to work at it.

• 33:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've just had to.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  You've really had to make a point of saying, two days a week, I'm gonna meet friends, I'm gonna catch up with this. You've got, I feel like you've got a good system in place of, these are the friends I need to catch up with. Once a month, I'm gonna do this with this person. Once a week, I'm gonna meet this person. And it's good, you've really learned how to create that cycle and system to make sure that you do connect.

• 33:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's how I like people to think about their life. Like, think about everything mathematically and everything becomes simpler.

• 33:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 33:51Jay Shetty?

  If you make it about, you know.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  How you're feeling.

• 33:53Jay Shetty?

  How you're feeling on that day, it will just, it will, you know, there's so many times, like yesterday before the dinner, I was so close to cancelling because I was a bit tired.

• 34:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:01Jay Shetty?

  So glad I didn't. And that's where systems help. And so it's like, who do you want to see once a week? Who do you want to see once a month? Who do you want to see once a quarter? And who do you want to see once a year? If you have a list of the people in those buckets.

• 34:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:16Jay Shetty?

  It becomes really, really simple. So I'm with you every day. Whenever we're in the same country, we're together every day, which is awesome. And then, but then there's friends, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna see you once or twice a week, I'm gonna see you. And that allows me to simplify my life. And now it's not random. And then I don't go three months and go, why haven't I seen that person?

• 34:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:33Jay Shetty?

  I love them, like, I love seeing them. And it's like, well, no, just have it in the system.

• 34:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:37Jay Shetty?

  And now I don't have to feel that way. And so I'm just allowing myself to be more effective with friendships. And people think that that might be business-like or transactional. Actually, that's what love and respect actually is, where it's like, I respect you enough, you're in the calendar, I want to see you every month.

• 34:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:53Jay Shetty?

  And it allows us to deepen our friendship. And then at the end of the year, we get to think about all the amazing memories we make.

• 34:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:59Jay Shetty?

  I think what we all have to realize is that friendship is a learned skill.

• 35:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:04Jay Shetty?

  And it's not something you're born with. And so we almost assume that people should know how to be a good friend. We assume people should know how to be a good partner. We assume someone should know how to be a good parent. And the reality is all of those skills are learned. And so for me, as a man, if you're listening to this right now and you're feeling lonely, I want you to know that there are other men out there that feel lonely.

• 35:28Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 35:29Jay Shetty?

  Which means that you actually have the opportunity to become community for each other. And that truly starts with you having the courage to share something vulnerably, openly, honestly, and seeing who matches that frequency. And it's as simple as that, is not everyone's gonna match your frequency. Someone might joke with you, someone might laugh at you, someone might just play it off. That's okay, because chances are in five to 10 years' time, they may come back to you and say, I'm sorry I did that, I'm going through something right now. But for now, they aren't that person. That doesn't mean they're bad, it doesn't mean you reject them. Just go find the people that you wanna connect with. How have you seen men in your life, apart from me?

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 36:11Jay Shetty?

  Struggle or do well in friendships? What has worked for them and what has not worked for them?

• 36:16Speaker 04

  I think sometimes, well, especially in our community, men have a lot of family members that they can like socialize with. But I have noticed as time goes on, you know, I think about my dad. And I remember he used to have like a huge social life when he was younger. And then as he's gotten older and older, that pool has definitely gotten smaller and smaller. But he, I randomly walk into his office or I randomly walk into the room and he's having a conversation with the, his best friend, Mike Uncle, who he's known since he was at university. And they're talking about things, whether it's through their physical health or their, you know, here and there, but they'll still have these once a month catch up conversations. He doesn't really see them, they don't go out necessarily, they don't go out and have a meal together.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  But he has these two or three people who I know he is speaking to, there's like Andreas, there's Mike Uncle, there's one other person. I know that he has these people that will check in on him and that he's checking in on. And so I think friendships also change as time goes on, they don't have to look the same way, you don't have to be going out. I don't want to keep saying the pub. Why do I keep thinking that? That's the thing. You don't have to keep going out to the pub to meet your friends, but you know that those people are still available to you. And so I think what you were saying is can you make that call? I know my, my, my dad seems like I, I, I always wonder, oh, has my dad got friends and is he going out and about? But actually he's got those people he can call. And I think um, that's something that's built over time, university. And he's in his seventies, like seventy now, and he's kept that connection.

• 37:44Speaker 04

  From that point, he knows every time I struggle with anything or he thinks he needs something, he calls them. And he knows that they've got the advice or they've got the, the ability to help him. And I think that has been, again, it's a learned skill. It's been built, learnt and built over since he was twenty years old till seventy. And that takes work. That takes the phone calls every week, the checking in every month, showing up when something's happened in their life. And so I think it takes a lot more effort than just this book of tennis court.

• 38:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:12Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Thanks for listening, everyone. Uh, drop in the comments. How you've been creating great friendships, what you're struggling with, maybe you'll even connect with people in the comment section, which we'd love to see. And make sure you tag me on Instagram and TikTok, me and Radhi on what's resonated with you, what you're trying and the great friendships that come from this. So thank you for listening. Hey everyone, if you loved that conversation, go and check out my episode with the world's leading therapist, Laurie Gottlieb, where she answers the biggest questions that people ask in therapy when it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak and dating. If you're trying to figure out that space right now, you won't want to miss this conversation.

• 38:53Speaker 09

  If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard to argue. It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as you're having the conversation. It's so lovely.

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