Elliot Page ON: How to Turn Self-Hate Into Self-Love & Navigating Societal Gender Norms

Can self-hate be turned into self-love, and if so, where does this transformation start? How can we replace self-criticism with affirmations and begin prioritizing self-care? Today, I have something truly special to share with you on the On Purpose podcast. We're about to dive deep into the incredible journey of Elliot Page, whose story is not just a memoir but a testament to the power of self-discovery and authenticity. Elliot Page is an Academy Award-nominated actor, director, producer, writer, and a New York Times bestselling author known for his indelible on-screen presence in both tentpole and art house films. Today we are talking about his memoir Pageboy which became an instant bestseller. Starting with a detailed exploration of life-changing memories, we journey alongside Elliot through a life-long experience that's beautifully reflected in this memoir. It's a story of resilience and growth, a reminder that we all have the capacity to overcome challenges and find our true selves. Elliot's story sheds light on the importance of not letting societal conditioning dictate who we are. We'll explore how being true to yourself can lead to living the life you've always wanted. From struggles to self-discovery, we will discover the impact of authenticity and self-acceptance and how these can help anyone take pivots at the most crucial moments. And amidst it all, we'll touch on topics like community support, transitioning resources, and how parents can empower their children to express themselves. In this interview, you’ll learn: How to let go of self hate How to appreciate your authenticity How to develop self love How to find your own voice The importance of community support The challenges when transitioning How to deal with unsupportive people This episode is not just about one person's journey; it's about the universal themes of self-love, acceptance, and the incredible strength of the human spirit. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:58 Elliot's Memory Exploration 03:46 Pageboy: A Memoir 06:16 Breaking The Mold Of Conditioned Reactions 07:41 Living Your Dream Life 09:28 Fighting to Function In Your Own Pace 10:26 Let People Be Themselves 13:08 How Transition Shapes Your Profession and Life 15:15 The Positives of Being Grounded And Present 18:20 The Significance of Community Support 20:16 Resources for Transitioning Individuals 23:19 How Parents Can Aid In Self-Expression 25:13 Misconceptions on Youth and Trans Health 28:43 Trans Men On Conversations About Masculinity 32:11 Empathetic Conversations With Other Trans People 38:09 Lessening the Burden of Feeling Alone 42:51 Connecting Through Stories 44:29 Balancing Alone Time And Forming Relationships 47:30 Living A Life With Limited Resources 51:40 Biographies And Intriguing Lives 53:04 Having A Moment Of Self Love 56:14 Elliot Page on Final Five Episode Resources: Elliot Page | Twitter Elliot Page | Instagram Elliot Page | Facebook Pageboy: A Memoir If you are interested in learning more in the topics we discussed today, below is a book list curated by Elliot Page: A Trans Man Walks Into a Gay Bar, Harry NicholasAmateur, Thomas Page McBeeBellies, Nicola DinanHe/She/They, Schuyler BailarMiss Major Speaks, Miss Major and Toshio MeronekNone of the Above, Travis AlabanzaRedefining Realness, Janet MockSurpassing Certainty, Janet MockThe Risk it Takes to Bloom, Raquel WillisThe Transgender Issue, Shon FayeTransgender History, Susan StrykerWe Both Laughed in Pleasure, Lou Sullivan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:28Jay Shetty?

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• 2:13Jay Shetty?

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• 2:29Speaker 01

  To be honest, so much of it is just about not feeling like on set. And in my trailer when I'm alone, wanting to tear my skin off. So the future, I think I couldn't see it because I didn't know how much longer I'd last feeling that way in my day to day life. Everyone's sort of go to was your dream's coming true, your dream's coming true, your dream's coming true. Kate Winslet said to me, don't let them change you.

• 2:59Jay Shetty?

  Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  The bestselling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

• 3:29Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. I'm so excited because I get to sit down with Elliot Page. Elliot Page is an Academy Award nominated actor, director, producer, writer, and a New York Times bestselling author, known for his indelible onscreen presence in both tent pole and art house films. Elliot uses his global platform to shed light on important social and LGBTQ plus issues. Up next, Elliot will star in Close to You, which will have its world premiere at the 2023 Toronto International Film Festival. Elliot's critically acclaimed debut book, a memoir entitled Page Boy, was published around the world in June 2023.

• 4:11Jay Shetty?

  The book became an instant bestseller, number one atop the New York Times Bestseller List, and receiving widespread positive reviews. With Elliot's production company, Page Boy Productions, Elliot develops and produces entertaining, original and socially responsible stories. Elliot, welcome to On Purpose.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 4:30Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much for making the time for, for being here. I know you're in LA only for a few days and I'm grateful that I get to steal some of that time.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me here.

• 4:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, today we're talking about your incredible new memoir. For anyone who hasn't already read this book, I highly recommend that you go and grab it. We're going to put the link in the caption so that you can order it right now, Page Boy. Please make sure that you go and grab a copy if you're enjoying this conversation. Elliot, when I You know, was reading through the book. I was truly just, first of all, I just felt very grateful that someone's letting us in on such an intimate part of their life and doing it in such a graceful and thoughtful way. And even the structure of the book too. I was just like, oh, this is like easing me in

• 5:22Jay Shetty?

  in a way that I wouldn't expect to from a memoir usually. And you chose this nonlinear approach consciously and intentionally. Could you explain why you felt that that was the right way to share your story?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, for me, the non-linearity of it is a reflection on some level of, speaking for myself, the trans and queer experience and how that journey weaves, how we get close to our truth, potentially pull back, maybe know ourselves very, very deeply before we've been inundated with, you know, society and its expectations that are often toxic and limiting. And, you know, so for me, in regards to exploration of memory and of those moments in my life where I did feel close

• 6:19Speaker 01

  and then would pull back, potentially because I was frightened, overwhelmed, or what have you. So I guess also personally, I enjoy when books are nonlinear, you know, wherein different themes and topics and history and emotion and what have you can all sort of collide. So that's just inherently, I guess, exciting to me. And also, yeah, I think it reflects the sort of queer trans journey on some level.

• 6:57Jay Shetty?

  I love the phrase you just used, the exploration of memory. I don't know, my mind just latched on to it. And I thought, wow, that's a really interesting way of putting it. I think our memory so often is a beautiful thing. It so often fails us. It's so often skewed. What was it like for you going down memory lane? And when you said exploration of memory, what did you discover or explore about memory? When you're putting together a memoir, I feel like... I feel like there must be something in there.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  For me, so many of, you know, the stories or the moments that I chose are ones that have just always been vibrating under the, right under the surface. And found the act of writing it in many ways was quite organic. It was sort of, I'd sit down, think of a period, think of a relationship that could potentially sort of speak to many things during that time, or a friendship, or an incident, or what have you, and then sort of mold around that. And for me, so much of what came up was the stuff that was kind of always running around my brain.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  So, some of my earliest memories when I was, you know, in preschool, to obviously then all over the place throughout. So I think a lot of the, the instances and feelings were quite sort of readily available and tangible. For me, the experience was, I don't know if this comes from like, acting or having so much of my life being a part of telling stories where it was as if I could sort of picture the moment and feel the moment and it was as if I was just describing this movie I was watching or something.

• 8:47Jay Shetty?

  Do you find, I'm always fascinated by this, especially with people who are in filmmaking. Do you find that when you're looking at a memory, you're seeing yourself move? Or are you kind of the person doing the moving? Does that make sense?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does. I think, I think probably both, the combination of the two.

• 9:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Probably also a conscious removal on some level to be able to, you know, give a texture and, and, and description that hopefully will, you know, pull the reader into it.

• 9:22Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I always find that all my memories, which it took me a long time to realize this, all my memories that are based on pictures are ones where I'm seeing myself as opposed to memories that I actually have from my mind, if that, if that makes sense. Like whenever I see a picture of me and my family, then. I'm like, oh, actually, I don't have a memory of that. I just have a picture that sparked something. For you, was there a memory that was more of a discovery? Or a memory that was like, oh, I didn't, I forgot that that happened. Or I maybe didn't pay enough attention to that when it happened. Was there anything that came up that way? Or was it more just things that were already there?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say anything sort of necessarily sparked or emerged out of nowhere. That was a surprise. But I think on some level, and this made, you know, the experience of writing it, of course, intense in moments, but ultimately really healing and cathartic. I think there was a lot of memories that I had just so swept under the rug. Where you become so conditioned to let certain things go, certain behavior coming at you go, that even sitting here right now, I can kind of feel it in my body to register how much certain things really did affect me and my life and my physical well being and my emotional well being and what have you.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  So it was almost more like, there was like a therapeutic element to it on some level. But sitting with the reality of some things that I think was actually really important.

• 10:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, thank you for doing it here and here in both places because I can only imagine how much courage it takes to do that. So, so thank you for even experiencing it even now, as you were saying, you can feel it in your body and I can see that it's, I can only imagine how much courage that takes. So, thank you, thank you for going there for us. How does it feel to finally be living the way you've always wanted to and being perceived in the way you've always perceived yourself?

• 11:18Speaker 01

  It's like getting to feel a way that I never thought was possible. Like when I would just think about my future and how I was gonna feel and I...

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Had a very difficult time seeing it. Even this morning, I saw a friend and I don't see him as much because he lives here. And he's just like this lightness in you. He's just like, oh, my gosh, it's such an amazing thing to see. And this is someone who's been in my life since I was, you know, first really in Los Angeles at the age of about 20, like consistently is when we first met initially. So it's, uh, yeah, it's getting to exist in a way that I never thought possible. Doesn't mean I'm not human who doesn't have difficult days or, you know, sparks of anxiety naturally. But it's a complete game changer, just getting to feel, being able to do this.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  This would have been one impossible before, impossible. I could have never.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Simply the action of sitting down for the length that it takes to have space in my mind, freed from everything else that was occupying it, to feel the sort of surge of creativity and feelings of just being inspired and waking up and being able to actually sit down with myself and do something like this. Impossible before, impossible.

• 12:56Jay Shetty?

  What would your thoughts about the future have been then that you think made it feel so impossible? As you said, you used to think about the future and it could never have felt as good as it does today, despite there being natural human challenges, obviously. But yeah, what would, what would that picture of the future would have been?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  I think the way, like, the way to explain it is almost like,

• 13:23Speaker 01

  it's almost as if your days, I, I just do feel like for very significant periods of my life, I struggled to function on a pretty basic level. You know, it was hard for me to just. Literally sit down. It was hard for me to be productive. It was hard for me to be, you know, present at all. And so the future, I think I couldn't see it because I didn't know how much longer I'd last feeling that way in my day to day life.

• 13:53Jay Shetty?

  How does it feel now reconnecting with acting, being who you've always been and perceiving, being perceived in that way? Like, what is acting like now? Has your relationship with acting changed? Is it better? Is it more?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  So much better.

• 14:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I mean, literally everything in my life is better now because of how I get to feel and feeling embodied and present and, you know, all these things really for the first time. Because this is the other thing I have people say to me, or I'd say to myself, like, you're an actor. Just put on the clothes, flip the switch, play the game, you know, whatever. But I wasn't starting from this foundational place of myself. And as much as acting is about inhabiting, you know, another personality, or, you know, whatever manifestations of a character, what have you, you're always bringing yourself

• 14:51Speaker 01

  to a role, right? Like, you're, it's so much about connecting to a character, to a story, to motivation, to emotion, to trauma, to whatever, to the joy, to what have you, and developing your connection with that and then molding something on that. So I used to be so profoundly uncomfortable, and I feel like I see that in work, like, inability to sort of, I almost think of the word loose, like, and now there's like this like looseness, there's this ability to just like, exist every day on set, be in my body, and that's the starting point. I'm not having to like, fight through something

• 15:34Speaker 01

  to get to the starting point. You know, where's, I know people approach the work differently, but to me, it's about being as present and open as absolutely possible with all the, you know, information you've gathered about how you want to, you know, play this role or approach it. So it's allowing for that. And it's feeling like.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  How acting felt in the moments when I was the most inspired, which usually were roles that somewhat I could almost handle. You know, I could handle the, you know, there'd still be some discomfort, but it was at least somewhat closer to who I was. Which again, sounds counterintuitive to acting, but to me, the, the presence of it is what makes it possible and the most powerful.

• 16:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, it's hard to, even though some things are art and then there's humans, it's hard to separate the two. Like it's, it's hard to just say, oh, well, that's an art. You turn it on like and off like a switch and then, then there's your life. And I think we all know that regardless of our disposition or setup, it, they're the two intertwine anyway.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 16:34Jay Shetty?

  And so what parts of the art do you feel have drastically improved for you? You know, like that you just feel more connected to or as you said, I love the words, open and present to.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  I mean, to be honest, so much of it is just about not feeling like on set and in my trailer when I'm alone and wanting to tear my skin off. I don't know, whatever the sort of physical ways that I would feel. And like, I can remember I'd call my, you know, manager on films and just be like, I'm, I'm not okay, like I, and not necessarily having the words or having them, but not, not being able to fully follow through with the thought, I guess. So, so much of it actually is like, to be honest, if someone had told me, oh, you come out as trans and you'll never work as an actor again, I would have been like, cool, like, all right.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  I'd way rather live my life and be myself and engage with the world as myself and feel embodied and not feel like I don't know how to get through the day.

• 17:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Not interested. So for me, I'm mostly like, okay, cool. That the, you know, if I keep, if I do get cast, the fallout does seem to be this very positive aspect of, of feeling so much more grounded and present that I think I, well, it's going to make performances better.

• 18:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  And if it doesn't.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Doesn't, I don't really care.

• 18:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  That's not what life's about for me.

• 18:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  I've had been in movies that have done well and movies that have not done well.

• 18:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  And you're still where you are and living your life. And like, I'm good.

• 18:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I mean, that, that is, I loved, you said, that's what life's about. And, and I think it's so true, like, for all of us, in our own ways, wanting to feel

• 18:32Jay Shetty?

  that we can truly be who we are and, and be seen for who we are and be accepted for who we are is kind of what all of us on our journey are pursuing and seeking. And when you say, and, and it sounds like to me, and I'm trying to deeply understand this as well, it's like, when you say in the book, you talk about how you're like, I knew when I was four years old. And it's like that knowingness, and then you use the language of like, you know, tearing off your own skin, like, that idea to me feels like, when there's such a strong knowingness inside, knowing is different to feeling. And, and it sounds like when I was reading, I was like, there was just knowingness. And, and I was intrigued as to, is that the right language? Do you agree with that? And what is the difference for you between knowing and feeling?

• 19:16Jay Shetty?

  Because I think knowing is so much more of this like visceral, deep, grounded, rooting feeling.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I suppose they're probably both, obviously interrelated to a degree and, and, and connect. I mean, I think at those, which are some of my earliest memories, like, these moments that were just always like, right under the surface, was so much of how I felt at that age and who I knew myself to be and how perplexed I was at how the world was seeing me. And then, and when I was about 10, sort of like, kind of

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Like pushing my mother to the degree that I was like really actually getting to present how I wanted and like remembering just how good that felt and the solidness and this, this way I could, could exist in the world without the similar feelings that I had as a full-blown adult of wanting to rip my skin off that I was feeling at really young ages and not obviously having the words for. But in some ways, you're like, no, wait, I did have the words for them. I was going, this is who I am and wanna be and these are the things that I wanna wear and how I wanna look and present. And you had people going, you know, no, I'm sorry, you know? So in some ways, you're like, wait, no, I did have the words.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  And also, I guess I did to a degree in my twenties and same thing, people were going, no, you, you can't do that. You have to do this if you want a future in this industry, for example, or you have to be closeted or what have you. So I think for me, the knowing, the knowing and the feeling relate. The, the knowing and feeling good about the knowing is, is when you feel euphoria, is when you feel that sense of connection, when that's incongruence with what you've been labeled as and defined as and how you're getting treated versus who you know you are. You know, then when that's heightened and like you're losing the sense of the knowing, that's when all these awful feelings come up and the manifestation and the consequences

• 21:28Speaker 01

  that are self-harm, obviously, mental health struggles and what have you, feelings of hopelessness. So I suppose they entwine in that way.

• 21:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely, definitely. I'm curious as to

• 21:49Jay Shetty?

  Friends that you've had in the community who may have been more limited by those statements or that pushback or that judgment, how have you been able to talk to others in the community? What have those conversations looked like when they're at their healthiest and at their best?

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Gosh, well, I'd say those conversations are crucial, right? I'd say, community is maybe the biggest reason why I'm even here and able to exist. And a lot of those conversations, and it goes both ways in the conversations, is someone speaking to something that might be a thought or a feeling that you thought you were alone with. Because we obviously don't, you know, there's not a tremendous amount of representation. And when you are able to connect with someone that's having these similar experiences that have made

• 22:47Speaker 01

  you feel very alone, that have filled you with shame potentially, or put you into a sense of hiding, is the... Not that you want anyone else to be suffering by any means, but when you're able to speak to someone else who's also maybe had the similar feelings when they were four, who's maybe had similar manifestations of their pain, I suppose, you feel less alone. You are then in a position where, you know, I can offer support and

• 23:31Speaker 01

  support's been offered to me from so many trans people that I'm close to and people I've never met, whose books I've read, who's, you know, who've deeply inspired me. So...

• 23:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:45Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 24:28Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a seller or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength.

• 25:13Jay Shetty?

  The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one-hour workout to build strength, burn fat, and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com/onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage and studio for details. Were there any particular books or people that you didn't know that you came across that you think you'd recommend to people to connect with that you felt were powerful for you? While you were obviously now that your book's going to play the same role for so many others.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Gosh, I mean, so many and then yeah, some people I know, some I don't. And also a couple of books I've read recently, actually. Travis Alabanza's book that came out in the UK, comes out here, I think, next month, called None of the Above is just.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Astounding. I don't know if you're familiar with them.

• 26:10Jay Shetty?

  I'm not. No, no, I'm not. Yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Brilliant. Also, a British book called Trans, A Trans Man Walks Into A Gay Bar by Harry Nicholas. Stunning book. Anyway, I just sort of like just read those. Oh, and I just read a collection of, I don't know if you're familiar with Lou Sullivan. They've published like massive amount of his diaries, which I just read and that was

• 26:37Speaker 01

  actually quite an interesting read because at first you're reading someone's diary, like it is very, I did this, then I met this person. And then you really get into the flow of it. And it's very, you know, it's beautiful. It's emotional and intense. And Janet Mock's books, which are stunning, those I read probably around the age of 30. Thomas Page McBee's book Amateur and Man Alive.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  I'm blanking.

• 27:06Jay Shetty?

  No, I mean, you've given us a great list. That's a phenomenal list to even get started with. And it's, it's incredible to hear how much, you know, I mean, you were just reeling off of book names there, but it's like so much deep study of, you know, did you ever keep a diary during this time or a journal or anything at all over your time? Or was this something that was all happening in your mind ultimately?

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Mine, for the most part, there were little, I did go like hunting and for any kind of old writing from whatever age. And I found some things as a teen, late teens and like little things from in my twenties and did kind of regret not writing more because a lot of those were really helpful. And fascinating to just read, you know, thinking back. So, no, not so much, but.

• 27:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. But you'd recommend it as a, as a practice?

• 28:01Speaker 01

  And I keep meaning to do it and I'm not, I don't know. But maybe I like, I wrote a book. Book tours a lot. I'm like, I'm just taking a moment and then I'll

• 28:08Jay Shetty?

  I think that's fair.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Get back into the writing flow.

• 28:10Jay Shetty?

  I think that's completely fair. Books and book tours. It's almost like you finish writing a book and you think the job's done. And then it's like. Just started and it's yeah, no, completely, completely understand that you, you were saying that, you know, and I, I liked how you were thinking that through. You were like, I actually did have the right words at four and then at 10. And I wonder how many young people are going to have the same conversation with their parents in the next few years. I think, you know, we're going to have more parents hearing the words that you used to, from, from their children. What do you think would be a healthy response from parents? That you think would be helpful? Or that you would encourage? So that they could be able to better stay connected to their children as

• 28:55Jay Shetty?

  they're going on their own journey?

• 28:56Speaker 01

  I think you really need to just listen to your children. And not be dismissive of what they're expressing, not shame them or embarrass them for what they're expressing. And allow a child the, the space to explore, you know? I mean, even as an adult, the things I was saying to myself, the things I'd internalized. And I remember this moment, which when people say things like, what do you say to young people who might be struggling or people are struggling is, I went from, oh, am I the, oh, I don't know, oh, to,

• 29:35Speaker 01

  whoa, wait, why does this energy need to be this way? Why can't I just be going, huh? Hmm, yeah, maybe I am. Maybe I'll go find someone and finally sit down and really commit to speaking about this and how I'm feeling and my relationship with my gender and my body. Cause I'm not okay. And why can't I put my shoulders back and speak to this and explore this? And I think in so many ways, it's just about creating that space, that gentleness and listening and educating yourself, you know? There is a lack of information and there isn't a tremendous amount of lies and misinformation about trans people, particularly about our healthcare, particularly about healthcare for youth.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  So also try and educate yourself from actual sources, from lived experience, and and also care that's supported by every major medical institution in the United States.

• 30:33Jay Shetty?

  Could you, and if this is your field of knowledge, could you expand on some of those lies or some of that misinformation that's out there, especially to do with healthcare? Because I think that would be really useful, if you feel comfortable to, yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  I mean, I can, I can do my best, I guess, yeah. But I mean, the idea that children's bodies are being mutilated, flat out lie, just literally not true. The idea that puberty blockers are experimental, nope. They've been used for decades for children who have precocious puberty. And this care is sort of framed as something that's like very easily accessible and immediate. Not the case at all. Most trans people are having incredibly difficult time accessing care. It's not how it's being framed in terms of this,

• 31:29Speaker 01

  as if it's getting like pushed. It's like the opposite.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  And this is like a very thorough, patient process that deeply involves the parents, of course. And so much of the care for children or, you know, young kids is just about supporting them, supporting a social transition, potentially, you know, name change, pronoun change, how they might want to dress, cut their hair, whatever, you know, very, you know, basic aspects of, you know, how we exist and how we're alive. And then, you know, the moment a child starts to show any sort of characteristic of puberty,

• 32:17Speaker 01

  that's when the conversation weighed out conversation with all the information, everybody involved about puberty blockers, which can stop. And then, you know, if if that's the choice, or continue potentially to hormones. And then when we're talking about any kind of, you know, surgical aspect, nothing like that is happening until the age of typically 18, in some cases 16. But so.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  I guess that's like the bulk of what I see is this idea that children are getting like mutilated or brainwashed or in environments that are forcing it. It's the opposite, actually, you know, trans and gender nonconforming people are bullied, deal with disproportionate violence.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  So, so much of that is just, just literally not true.

• 33:11Jay Shetty?

  Right, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, no, it's, it's useful because, yeah, I think that the challenges with, with all of this is, like you said, there's so much information that it's hard for, misinformation and information, that it's hard for people to kind of hear about things effectively. And, and we hope that these conversations like this can lead to people doing their own research, finding the right sources so that they can actually be able to make sense of, you know, something that they may not understand as well, as opposed to having an assumption based on broad, generalized headlines or.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Or just hearing people that have know, I'm always like, oh, I didn't know you were a medical professional. You're not talking about any other sort of medical care in this way, when it's supported by every major medical institution in the United States.

• 34:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What do you think trans men can add to the conversation of masculinity? Or add to their thoughts and belief system around masculinity? I'd love to hear your perspectives on that.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I think we can add something.

• 34:20Jay Shetty?

  I believe you too.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  And the book Amateur I mentioned by Thomas Page McBee is so much about really a contemplation of masculinity, what it means to be a man, the man he wants to be, what have you. Beautiful book. I think you'd love it. I mean, I've had a lived experience of being perceived as not a man, of course.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  And also the sort of brief experience of like entering that space and like getting sort of treated in a different way. Where in many ways, I feel so much for cis men being brought up and.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  The limits put on them emotionally encouraged to be, you know, not sensitive, that vulnerability is weakness on some level or what have you. Just ingrained misogyny. Obviously, we live in a very misogynistic society, queer phobic society, transphobic society, and having certain experiences I've had in my life with men

• 35:28Speaker 01

  has definitely highlighted certain things that I personally wouldn't want to be in. I suppose trans men, trans mask people can come to the table with with those experiences and potentially offer something different or an insight that's different. Or I hope for cis men in so many ways that there can be more encouragement for expressing emotion and sensitivity and having close friendships with other men and all these things that seem to to happen that are toxic.

• 36:10Jay Shetty?

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• 36:55Jay Shetty?

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• 37:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think there's become such a pressure as well to just play the role of protector and provider. And that stoic kind of cold demeanor around emotion or challenges or stress. And that comes with its own form of limits to the human experience, to self-expression, to. You know, I've, I've always found personally, because I was raised by my mom growing up. And witnessed her struggle and her stress and her pain and her, her challenge and just her resilience. And then also with a younger sister, it was, I found that very useful because I grew up in an environment that was

• 38:17Jay Shetty?

  highly emotive and highly supportive of being emotive and, and, and expressing emotion. And I often think about if I didn't have that experience, I don't know where else I would have got that from in my life. And, and that's interesting to think about, like how I could have grown up and never had that compass. It would, it would never even have come across me. Where else would I have learned that? I wouldn't have, definitely wouldn't have learned it at school. Definitely wouldn't have learned it at college. And then in the world of work, I definitely wouldn't have learned it either. So you could literally spend your whole life and never access some of these subtle nuanced expressions, which are so key.

• 39:00Jay Shetty?

  Are there any specific interactions you've had or moments you've had where this kind of experience has been heightened or some of the things you mentioned that you felt like, oh, wow, this was, this was really powerful for someone or something?

• 39:13Speaker 01

  I think maybe it allowed me to have certain conversations with cis men that I hadn't had before. Like it created an, an opening and be quite frankly, more empathy. Because I've had not great experiences with men and.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  It's easy to lose some of the empathy sometimes, you know? I think it's allowed me to have conversations with men about how they have not felt permitted to express themselves or have close relationships with other men or, you know, a sort of a certain age where emoting or self-expression in that way is not seen as a positive. And if anything, you know, aggression is more, you know, celebrated or encouraged, which is damaging to the person themselves and obviously the world. In my life, I've noticed things that are just more, you know, subtle, but like men who used to, if I hadn't seen them for a while, we used to hug.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  And then now we're like, there's no hug. And I'm just like, you know, these little things. I'm like, wow, that's fascinating, you know? You know, even myself at the very beginning, like going, having these like really brief moments like, oh, should I talk with my hands less? Like, what Elliot? Did that thought actually just enter your brain? No, be exactly who you are. But it highlighted something that even just in that tiny amount of time, something in me was starting to judge myself about how I was going to be as the man that I am, I'm going to grow up to be.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  And it's, you know, it's embarrassing to admit, but feeling those, those sort of, yeah, pressures or misguided thoughts. But yeah, I think it's allowed me to have quite meaningful conversations with, with male friends that we hadn't really had before.

• 41:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and they probably haven't had before.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, and then I will say one thing. I feel like a lot is blamed on testosterone. And as someone who's literally jokes on me going through puberty again, I will say, like, I'm not more angry. I'm the least angry I've ever been. It doesn't like, I think, you know, we're not taking into account the degree of socialization and.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  And like toxic limitations that encourage, you know, a lot of the behavior and issues we see with toxic masculinity.

• 41:54Jay Shetty?

  Another challenge that you raised in the book, you said research has shown that transgender and gender nonconforming youth are four times more likely to struggle with an eating disorder. That obviously creates its own complexity. What was the, what is the research point to as the reason behind that and, and how people can find support around that, especially with that complication?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Well, gosh, I mean, I'm not a, obviously like a professional that could give some exact.

• 42:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What have you come across is my question.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  I mean, from my experience, it's, you know, a profound discomfort in the body of wanting to have a sense of control. For me, in some ways, I think to being smaller, I looked more boyish when I was the, you know, so this sort of way of like literally controlling the body and also just the sort of, you know, sort of psychically, mentally, so much of your time becomes consumed with those thoughts that it's allowing you to not focus on other things, to think about other things, to contemplate other things.

• 42:56Jay Shetty?

  You talk about in the book about how like your thoughts were consumed with contemplation for a very long time. And I guess that now that you're able to not have to contemplate those same thoughts, almost like what we're talking about at the beginning about the thoughts about the future and the thoughts about it being impossible. What, now that you have that headspace back, or hopefully more of it back, what would that now be? What are you directing that towards? Or what opportunities that opening? Or where are you able to spend that thought power?

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Wrote a book.

• 43:29Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  I wrote, yeah, I wrote a book. I mean, I make, you know, for fun, like music with a friend. It's actually hard to describe when it's literally now every aspect and every moment of my life, you know, like when people go, oh, what was your last incident of like gender euphoria? I'm like, oh, this morning when I was drinking coffee in silence and just being able to sit and have my coffee, doing things in the past that. Like I did enjoy, but a part of me wasn't there. So it could just be going to meet some friends in the park. And I'm really able to just be in the park with them. I'm not thinking about, oh, are they gonna, did I eat? Well, you only ate this much time ago.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  And oh, God, I'm so uncomfortable and tucking down my shirt and looking and just kind of wanting to get out always, like always wanting to just the sense of always wanting to flee. And now, sometimes, of course, there's moments where I'm like, I'd really love to just be home reading a book right now. I mean, like, I'm not like, it's not like I'm like Johnny Social all of a sudden. But going from having like a very difficult time being social and feeling connected or now getting to feel like immersed in life versus struggling to know how to live it.

• 44:51Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that definitely registers. Hearing that definitely hits. Thank you for explaining that. When you went on the book tour and you're obviously, as you just said, you wrote the book. What's been, what have been the responses that have really warmed your heart or that have really connected to you in a way that are going to stay with you for a long, long time, either on tour or I'm sure you've had so many people write to you because of the book and write to your team and everyone else. What are some of the, what are some of those that you could tell us now? Especially now that the book's been out for a while. I'm guessing it's only getting more and more.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the most moving and beautiful responses are people kind of expressing at all ages how me sharing my story has helped them, you know? Feel less alone, helped them talk to their parents in a new way, helped them feel, carry less shame.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Read a letter from someone who was, they might have, they might have been, you know, fifty and they'd read the book and then like, you know, finally I decided, yes, I'm going on testosterone and just saying like how much that decision had changed their life and I fully was like crying when I read this. I was just so, um, well thankful that they'd wanna, you know, share that with me. And also to know that anything you could have done or expressed would, would help someone feel less alone. Cause I know how alone you can feel. I know

• 46:38Speaker 01

  how overwhelmed and burdened you can feel by this self hate and discomfort that just is constantly running through your body. And what it means when you do get those moments of clarity and feel connection. I've, as I've said, I've had that with books I've read or, you know, friendships and what communities offered me. So those are beautiful moments. And then even, you know, a friend of mine who's, who's trans mask and they, their mom read the book in like a couple of days and they said, I'm now having conversations with my mom that I didn't think were possible before. It's like, I mean, at the end of

• 47:22Speaker 01

  the day, like, that's the point. I mean, that's really the point. It's like, why else am I like spilling my guts in this thing? Like sometimes I feel like leading up to it coming out. I'm like, oh my God, why'd you write about that? And then when you have those moments that you know it could be helping someone, it's just like, to me, that's the point.

• 47:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Did you encounter anyone that initially may have been, you know, in their own way, initially critical or judgmental and then was able to kind of even just sit with you and hear from you or, and, and was able to comprehend and understand just?

• 48:07Jay Shetty?

  Even a glimpse into the journey, did you come across any of that? Or hear about any of those types of stories from anyone?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  I mean, I suppose people, I don't know if, you know, the individual went on like some huge arc or a change of thought, but that it enabled them to to think about and understand the experience a bit more. And actually, in so many ways, that I think so special is how much they also related to it, despite having a very different experience, you know, not being trans.

• 48:39Jay Shetty?

  How did they relate to it? What was?

• 48:40Speaker 01

  They related it being, you know, cis and gay. And so obviously, there's going to be like overlap there. But had, maybe they did have their certain feelings about trans people or thoughts. And the book really did help, you know, their mind change to a degree.

• 48:58Jay Shetty?

  I'm so glad that, I mean, there's so many books that you mentioned today that I want to read. And I know that, you know, our community is hopefully going to read Pageboy as well after this. But it's fascinating to me just how, how we all became trained in different ways, conditioned in different ways to become closed to experiences that you would hope we would have become more curious to learn about and more open to learn about. And it's fascinating to me as a society how we've become more and more closed minded about so many issues as opposed to being broad minded when it obviously makes sense to be open minded about things, makes us a healthier, happier, more growth focused human.

• 49:40Jay Shetty?

  And for me, I've always talked about how I think the best thing that happened to me is I met people who were very different to society when I was young. And when I say different, I mean, for me, it was meeting spiritual monks, like that was my personal journey. And so, meeting a monk at 18 years old was so random to my life's journey that it was great because it presented a whole new way of thinking and ideology that I would never have ever thought could even be possible. And it became such a big part of my life. And I just, I'm hoping that, you know, stories like yours and stories like this will continue to help people open up their minds to recognize how much there is in common

• 50:24Jay Shetty?

  that we have and how much there is in common experience that we can learn from and be guided by, even if it's not the same experience. Would that, would that be an accurate? Mission statement to a part of the mission statement?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely, ideally, yeah.

• 50:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  And I mean, I, you know, like memoir in particular, it's, I read a lot of and love and so much of it are, you know, stories that are very different than mine and people with different experiences and identity and what have you that have deeply touched me and moved me and opened my mind and allowed me to grow and expand and, we're all learning all the time, you know? And it's, it's beautiful to have the space or, you know, to help create the space on any level that allows people to, to grow and expand in that way.

• 51:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How's your perspective on love changed and that area of your life?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Definitely very different now than I was in before. I was very much, which I think's maybe relatively evident in the book, a bit of a serial monogamist and just like really did find it so hard to exist and, and function that I, I do think like I needed someone, like I, and the moment there was like attraction or a feeling, it's just sort of like, uh huh, you know, like, and like hold on tight, you know, and, and staying in situations that, um, I'm sure a lot of people, again, this is something that so many people would relate to in different ways, situations that weren't the wisest,

• 52:05Speaker 01

  that probably weren't great for either party involved and that came from really just not knowing how to exist by myself. And the feeling of love, right? Oof, that's like, ah, like we escape, it's pardon the pun, but transcendent, you know, it's, and that feeling would give me a spark of life. It would give me a moment of, oh, I can breathe. Ultimately though, that's not the reason why I think we should be with someone. And, um, it's a tad selfish on my part. And, uh, now I

• 52:46Speaker 01

  I'm so blown away by the fact that I can be alone. Like, that is such an exhilarating sensation, an element of the feeling a way I never thought was possible.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  That, right now, I'm very much enjoying being, you know,

• 53:06Speaker 01

  connecting with people, having some fun, but just sort of being on my own right now. And that is very new for me, very new for me.

• 53:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  And I want love in a relationship to be, you know,

• 53:21Speaker 01

  I mean, our stuff's always gonna follow us into intimate relationships, I know, but, you know, come from a solid and embodied foundation where I know I'm going into that because we're gonna love each other and explore life together and grow together and not because I'm clinging to something for dear life.

• 53:38Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. That sounds like it must be such a, such a...

• 53:43Speaker 01

  So I'm single, so...

• 53:48Jay Shetty?

  I love it. No, but that's brilliant. I was, I was about to say like, just how meaningful that must feel like to, you know, it must be, it, it sounds like such a profound place that, you know, such a deep space to, to feel that centeredness and stillness and being with oneself and that confidence of just, of just being in oneself. But you're single, so that's, we're gonna throw that out there. How do you think the journey, and of course, you know the communities, the trans community so well, so you would know, how, how do you think the journey is different when you are in the public eye versus when you're not?

• 54:30Jay Shetty?

  Like, there are the obvious differences, of course, with, we've talked about like, the pressure from success of movies and things like that. But are there any more nuanced or subtle things that some of us could miss in plain sight? Because you're not living that journey or you're not seeing it?

• 54:47Speaker 03

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• 55:16Jay Shetty?

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• 55:57Jay Shetty?

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• 56:39Speaker 01

  Don't know. I mean, it's so funny because it's just like my

• 56:42Jay Shetty?

  I know.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  strange experience in this, in this life.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  I mean, maybe in that you're just going through this transition in front of a lot of people and having people speculate or make comments or assumptions about your life and your experience that can often be incredibly hurtful and demeaning. And at the same time, everything, everything's like, you know, relative. Everyone's sort of having that in their own individual orbit. And my position obviously comes with such an enormous amount of privilege. Like, my life does not reflect

• 57:24Speaker 01

  the lives of most trans people who deal with, you know, disproportionate amount of unemployment, poverty, incarceration, violence, et cetera, particularly black trans people. So I'd be lying if I said there weren't certain elements of this sort of unusual experience that don't have its sort of challenges or difficult moments. And at the same time, what I always go back to is

• 57:55Speaker 01

  the degree in which my privilege and resources help and also protect me, you know? If I'm getting threats, I have the money to hire security. I could get, you know, pay for surgery to get it quickly. You know, all of these aspects that name change, you know, think about that, all those documents, you just, you know, your password, like, all of these things that, for those that, you know, don't have the certain privileges and resources I have is incredibly difficult and makes life incredibly difficult.

• 58:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I'm glad you raised that point because, yeah, I think

• 58:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we have to also look at it from that perspective of just, again, going back to the reality of what these choices and decisions like actually look like in the real world. Because similar, and I appreciate that view from you constantly of like looking at it from, well, this is what it actually looks like. This is what's actually going on. This is, this is what we may not see if we're only looking at the, you know, the, and again, that doesn't take away from your journey as well. Like that shouldn't take away from the challenges and stresses and the realities of what you're experiencing. But I wanted to pivot to certain things because I feel like, I feel like the book is just the beginning of so many more exciting, incredible adventures of what you'll go on to do and achieve. And

• 59:21Jay Shetty?

  I heard that you're a big history buff. And I'm guessing you're doing a lot of reading there. I wonder whether there's any, has there been, and you talked about even just, I love what you've been saying that just, and you know, when I'm hearing someone speak and it really, the way you express this is really gonna stay with me, this idea that the biggest win is just you being able to do the simplest things in a present way. Like that will stay with me so much because it's something that we all take for granted so much. Like, you know, you just, I know I do. Like, it's a very easy thing to miss out on. And some of us are not even present, but even if we are present, we take that

• 1:00:06Jay Shetty?

  for granted. And so the idea that you feel so much presence in just having coffee this morning, or like reading a book, or being with friends in the park, or what, you know, all those examples you were giving. Yeah, I wanted to dive into what, seeing as you're such a big reader, when did you become such a history buff? And what has been the latest historic discovery that has kind of brought you joy?

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  I haven't been reading too much stuff about history.

• 1:00:31Jay Shetty?

  Or anything else, anything you're reading.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Oh, lately I've been reading Octavia Butler, because I, bears to say, I hadn't read Octavia Butler before. So I just read Wild Seed and Kindred. I guess, obviously, those books have a fantastical sort of history, but obviously a very intense history element to it. You know, Wild Seed and Kindred, very brutal history. I've been reading more novels lately. Yeah, obviously, both of Octavia Butler's books are novels, but also Our Wives Under the Sea was tremendous. Brandon Taylor's new novel. I'm trying to, is it called The Last Americans?

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  I might be getting the name wrong, but his latest novel was amazing. So less like history specific.

• 1:01:24Jay Shetty?

  But it's all history, yeah.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  But obviously, there's historical elements in a lot of the, those different things.

• 1:01:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Not really the Brandon Taylor one at all.

• 1:01:32Jay Shetty?

  No, not the novel, but yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, the other ones. Yeah, no, no. And, and I think that, that is the point, right? Like, I think.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  It's awesome.

• 1:01:39Jay Shetty?

  Biographies and diaries and autobiographies are all, have historical elements to them. I mean, that's, that's where they come from. And one part that felt very journal, like in your book, was, at the end of the book, you describe being at the show with Mark.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:01:56Jay Shetty?

  And having a moment of self-love that you wanted to hold on to. And you say, taking a deep breath, exhaling, exhaling down to my toes. I wanted to hold on to the feeling, to pocket the joy, the fleeting moments of self-love. And I thought that felt very diary-like, like it felt very like journaled thought. It was, you know, very unique words. And I, I wanted to know, like, why did you choose to end the book at 16 years old? Like, again, we talked about the nonlinear, but specifically to end on that, after going through this journey back and forth. What was it, what was so? Yeah, why, why end on 16 years old?

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I felt like, I sort of began the book at this time that was, also involved Mark and was this period of feeling more self-love, feeling closer to myself, falling in love with my first girlfriend, Paula. And then, you know, that leading up to a moment that was a big pivot in, in my life. And then to sort of, you know, bookend that with this moment, 16, Peach's concert,

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  what would have been the queerest environment I'd probably been in at that point in my life. And the just palpable joy, the electricity of it. And.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  I'll never forget that night. I'll never forget walking home with Mark and what that felt like, what that community felt like. And to end on that note there, at sixteen, having that atmosphere to go to, having that incredible performer who's inspired me since I was a teenager. It felt like a special moment to end on.

• 1:03:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I definitely felt it. And it's wonderful to have that experience of euphoria through your experience in that moment. And, you know, Elliot, I just want to say how honestly, I was so excited to meet you today and do this interview. And I love it when this happens, when you get an experience that you didn't know you were gonna get. And that's how I feel with you today, where you can always intellectualize what you think you're gonna learn or what you think you're gonna gain. And I had all those ideas, which I definitely have learned so much. It's not that I haven't learned, but it's, I've kind of been moved more internally and I feel that that's sometimes even more valuable

• 1:04:38Jay Shetty?

  because it's something that I can express from a deep place within myself. And I feel like I've been moved by you sharing your experience so thoughtfully and intimately in your book, but also even getting the opportunity to sit with you today. And I only have a couple more questions for you. We ask at the end of every interview, do a final five, which is a fast five in the sense that they have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. But I always ruin it because I'm so intrigued by all my guests, but I'll try. So Elliot Page, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? And it can be about any topic you choose it to be about.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  You know what, I don't know why this is popping into my brain, but there's a memory popping in my brain, so I'm like, why not go with this? And the time in that period when everyone's sort of go-to was, "Your dream's coming true, your dream's coming true, your dream's coming true." Kate Winslet said to me, and I was, still am obsessed with Kate Winslet, love, one of just my favorite actors of all time. And I was too shy to go up to her at this like, party or something. It would have been the first time we met. She just came up to me and was like, oops. Obviously, it took me a long time to listen to the advice properly, but she was just like, "Don't let them change you." Like, don't...

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Like, you hold on to yourself, essentially. Don't let this...

• 1:06:05Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  And I'll never forget it. Who was, I think, the only person and who that whole period basically said anything like that, you know, from that? And I've always remembered it, and it's always meant a lot to me.

• 1:06:19Jay Shetty?

  I think that's a great answer. And yeah, what a beautiful statement. "Don't let them change you, hold on to yourself." That's, that's beautiful. Okay, great. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Sure, this is easier.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Don't be, you know, don't tell people you're queer and disguise yourself to, to trick them.

• 1:06:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, even those words, "disguise yourself to trick them," and say... Yeah, it's, it's hard to live in a disguise and as a trick.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Which is just so silly, too, as if like, so you're telling me lesbians don't wear dress? Like, what are we, like, just the whole binary aspect is just ridiculous.

• 1:07:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, what are we trying, yeah.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  So boring, god.

• 1:07:05Jay Shetty?

  Question number three. What is something you used to value that you no longer value?

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  I think like, a certain idea of what we envisioned success to be. You know, that's not really that important to me anymore.

• 1:07:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that was clear from what you said earlier. The idea that you were willing to let it all go if you're allowed to be who you are and be yourself.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah. It's just like, not what success means to me.

• 1:07:32Jay Shetty?

  Question number four. What is something that you're currently trying to unlearn?

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  I guess still, you know, whatever shame still lingers that was projected onto me by those around me, society.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  Obviously in so much better place, like so much of it's probably unconscious, but as if it's not, you know, still lingering and still disconnecting from those thoughts or feelings that make you feel small.

• 1:08:04Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. And fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, and I'm really intrigued to hear your answer. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  God.

• 1:08:19Jay Shetty?

  You can take your time.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  A law?

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  That everybody had to follow. Don't be a bully.

• 1:08:29Jay Shetty?

  That's a good one.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Bullying is outlawed.

• 1:08:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Any type of bully, yeah. I think that's a good law.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:37Jay Shetty?

  There's a rule that needs to become a law. Yeah, I love it. Elliot Page, everyone, the book is called Page Boy, A Memoir. If you haven't read it already, highly recommend it. Read it for your own education. Share it with friends. Make it your next book club pick to be able to discuss it, dissect it, support the communities around you, support your friends who are on their journey. And I'd love for you to share with me and Elliot the thoughts, the reflections, the insights that stayed with you. There are so many things that I felt and experienced through this conversation that are definitely going to stay with me. And I'd love to see, I know that you're phenomenal at doing this, you're phenomenal at doing edits and cuts

• 1:09:17Jay Shetty?

  on TikTok and Instagram and X, and I'd love to see what are those moments in this interview and conversation that are going to stay with you and that you're going to pass on to others. Elliot, thank you so much for your time, your energy, your presence today. Like I said, I, I will take this experience around and share it with many people because it's an experience that I've really felt deeply through your words and through your presence today. And so often, when I'm sitting in this chair, the number one feeling I'm having is I wish the world could feel what I'm feeling right now. Because so often, I'm feeling if people

• 1:09:57Jay Shetty?

  could understand the pain, the hurt, the trauma that people like yourself are experiencing and could experience your humanity in the way that I'm experiencing, then maybe we wouldn't treat each other that way. That maybe we wouldn't speak to each other that way. That maybe we wouldn't.

• 1:10:18Jay Shetty?

  Impact each other in that negative way. I'm really thankful I got to spend this time with you and I really hope that more and more people get to experience you through your book and through your work so that they too can understand more about themselves and more about you. So, thank you so much.

• 1:10:34Speaker 04

  Thank you so much.

• 1:10:35Jay Shetty?

  Thank you.

• 1:10:36Speaker 04

  Really appreciate it.

• 1:10:37Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. If you love this episode, you will enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for five minutes. It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I was like, you know what, her thighs are cute.

• 1:11:01Speaker 05

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:11:34Speaker 05

  On October 2nd.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami.

• 1:11:38Jay Shetty?

  They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:11:40Speaker 05

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us out.

• 1:11:45Speaker 05

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:11:47Jay Shetty?

  What would happen if I stopped growing? You're stalled, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:11:52Speaker 05

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:11:56Speaker 05

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17, not admitted without parent.