Dennis Rodman ON: Dealing With Negativity & Using Pain To Find Your Potential

NBA basketball star Dennis Rodman is known for his fierce determination & colorful personality. Though Rodman’s life has been full, he admitted to Jay Shetty that finding true and lasting happiness has been a lifelong & elusive pursuit. Rodman and Shetty talk about the highs and lows of basketball, how to juggle parenthood and identity, and the power of finding community when it is needed the most. Jay and Dennis celebrate the joy and purpose that comes out of pain. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:43Jay Shetty?

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• 1:26Jay Shetty?

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• 2:01Jay Shetty?

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• 2:45Jay Shetty?

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• 3:09Speaker 01

  Back then, you know, I wasn't even acting out. I was just more like showing this, this the real Dennis Rodman, the life of Dennis Rodman, stuff like that. And people started to gravitate that around the world. We live it around the world. And now today, that's what we talked about. What are the big things you want to do in your life? I've done it. I've created an image in the, in the sports world that people are praising.

• 3:40Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, to learn and to grow. And you know that this is my promise to you that we try and find and bring you guests that can help expand our minds, think differently, and bring new ideas into our minds and lives so that we can live differently, think differently, be bold, be creative and be courageous. And today's guest you already know is none other Than Dennis Rodman, one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Dennis Rodman played for the Detroit Pistons, the San Antonio Spurs, the Chicago Bulls, the L.A. Lakers and Dallas Mavericks.

• 4:23Jay Shetty?

  Sports Illustrated once called Rodman a sort of basketball genius, and you know how much I love that word, and helped lead his teams to five NBA championships. Now, not only is he one of the greatest players, but a New York Times bestselling author as his career went on. However, Rodman drew more attention for his personality off court, which I can't wait to dive into. Now, you can see more, and I just saw this last week. It's phenomenal. His fascinating life on ESPN's Emmy award-winning 30 for 30 series titled Rodman, For Better or For Worse. I'm grateful to be sitting in front of an icon. Dennis, thank you for doing this.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Everything is good, man. You know, it's a beautiful day today.

• 5:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's an absolutely beautiful day today.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Uplifting, you know, spirits today, you know, not too much sadness right now. So it's clear in our heads trying to, you know, get over the, some of the negativity that's going on around the world.

• 5:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely. And that negativity around the world, I mean, I know for a lot of people, obviously, we were just, you know, seeing as you started there, we can talk back, look back a few days ago, you know, a few months ago, we were fortunate enough to have Kobe Bryant on the podcast and we spoke to him and, and obviously we find this news out a few days ago. I mean, you actually played with him.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, played with him, played against him. Sad, right? I mean, sad, I mean, I was telling everybody before this happened, you know, this guy over here showed me something on TMZ. I said, this has got to be a joke because it's TMZ, you know, most people laugh at TMZ bull crap, right? But he showed it to me, I said, wait, I mean, this ain't happening, right? And when it got around really, really quick, it was, it was really, really, it was one of those powerful moments where you're just like, wait a minute, this shouldn't happen like this, you know, because over the last 20 years, especially the last 10 years, we lost so many people, man. We have lost so many people.

• 6:19Jay Shetty?

  So true.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  And this was in a self affliction. It was more like, it was like, it's more like a damn thing, you know, it's not even a wise damn.

• 6:32Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Really, of all people.

• 6:34Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  So that's how I looked at it.

• 6:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so unexpected, man.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Unexpected.

• 6:39Jay Shetty?

  And I've never seen, which was, which was beautiful. I've never seen the whole world respond and stand up in that way. I think the last time I experienced that was like Michael Jackson, maybe. It was like, it's been a long time till where you see like, not just athletes, but everyone in the world like showing their prayers, their love.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  It was, it was, it was actually striking. The last time I seen something like this that was amazing, I think it was last year. Um, correct me if I'm wrong, last year, yeah, last year. And I say, and I said, um, I saw Jesus walk down a golf course. And people didn't realize what I was saying. I said, did you see Jesus walk down there? Because I saw fucking Tiger Woods come back and win the damn Masters and had everybody gravitated to him. And Michael Roy gave him that, that privilege to say, man, go ahead. This is your turn now. That's the last time I seen something like that.

• 7:30Jay Shetty?

  USA physically.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  I was just, I saw it on TV.

• 7:32Jay Shetty?

  Oh, you saw it on TV?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  You know, and then if you really wanna take it really back, it was a tragedy and maybe somewhat unfortunate incident, the OJ thing. That's the only two things I could really think of. That's really, that was really striking the last 10 years.

• 7:49Jay Shetty?

  Interesting. Yeah, for mine, I think it's a bit longer. Michael Jackson and Princess Diana.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:54Jay Shetty?

  Those are probably the two in my lifetime that I've definitely witnessed in that way. But thank you for sharing that as well. And I mean, where I wanna start is, and I wanna hear it from your own words, because I think when anyone is, as in the public eye as you are, and the people that we see and the people that we perceive, everyone has their version of who they think that person is. But what I'm interested in is, who is Dennis Rodman in the current version of how you see yourself?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Who is Dennis Rodman? I think I just laid him with some cool stuff right there. With, um, you know, OJ, you know, you said Michael Jackson, now Kobe. And I was trying to put that in perspective for me. Who is Dennis Rodman? Let's see.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  If it would have been me that died, I would have had a whole different effect in the world. People would have celebrated. There would be no emotion. It would be, oh, this is what he wants. Stuff like that. But for Kobe and stuff like that, my level of power and control about things on this planet is different. You know, people expect me to do certain things. They don't expect me to do the Kobe thing. They expect me to do the cool stuff and have breaking news around the world. Okay, great, then it's gonna do this for us. Then it's gonna do this for us. Then it's gonna do this for us. And I think about, I'm not even trying to do this. I'm just fortunate enough to be able to put my foot in the door and say, okay, you know what?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Let me try this, see how this is gonna work. And for me, it's not about the money, the praise and the accolade. I don't give a damn. If it happens, it happens. I think people look at me more like, wow, he's still living. You know, he's still living. How? We don't know. But for me, I know, I understand that I can persevere in certain tragedies, certain madness. And people look at me such a creative and a weird light. You know? And it's very difficult to explain who I really am. Who I really am, you know?

• 10:10Speaker 01

  In the beginning, I was such more like a diverse individual. But now, it's more like people expect me to do something great, to do something really big. And if I do something that's gonna be really normal, uh, he's just looking for, you know, some attention. But do something really big, that's different. And that's why I'm at my love of my life right now. They wanna see me do something really big again. You know, not because they saved my life or helped my life. It's more like, wow, it's unexpected, but I gotta do it. Not the Kobe's, not the Michael Jordan, not this Tiger Woods, but me of all people.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  You know, so I think that's, that gives you a good light about me, right?

• 10:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. And what does big mean to you? Like for you, when you think of doing something big for the world now and you feel like that's what's expected, but what does that mean to you?

• 11:06Speaker 01

  I don't need to really prove myself anymore.

• 11:09Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  You know, I don't expect to be this human being that's that's fortunate enough to be in this situation.

• 11:17Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  You know, if it was more like a, you know, when it's when it's a hard task for anyone to try to do anything that's really creative. Because life today, life today is really moving fast and it's so, it's so dangerous to live life today. It's so dangerous because now we expect people to die quickly. Back then, the Elvises, the, the guys in the sixties, stuff like that. We had a trend back there fifteen, twenty years ago, twenty five years ago, that the number twenty seven is kind of weird.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Do anybody know about this? The number twenty seven, every, every entertainer was dying at twenty seven years old.

• 11:56Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  At twenty seven. And nobody knows this. And it's like, wow, really?

• 12:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I didn't know that.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  You know, Amy Winehouse, she died at twenty seven. All the, all the great artists between the sixties and seventies, all died at twenty seven years old.

• 12:12Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Twenty seven. I was just, I was twenty seven, I ain't, I was just barely having sex.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  That's kind of weird, I'm looking, being a superstar. But it was, it's just, it's just so weird if people today don't really look at life so seriously anymore.

• 12:31Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  They don't. Because it's moving so fast because we need, we need some, we need some type of, actually to keep our mind moving in the right direction.

• 12:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  And it's so hard to sit there and try and control people's mind and, and, and dependency to say, okay, great, here's some positive stuff for you today.

• 12:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Knowing, knowing the fact that there could be some negative stuff over here too.

• 12:49Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  So it's like, okay, which direction are we going as human beings?

• 12:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  And people don't want to, people don't have to take time out to sit down and understand that.

• 13:03Jay Shetty?

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• 13:47Jay Shetty?

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• 14:32Jay Shetty?

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• 15:15Jay Shetty?

  Well, you've said before that you think that things have become too easy for this generation.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 15:20Jay Shetty?

  What do you mean by that?

• 15:21Speaker 01

  It's too easy. I think it's everything is handed to this generation right now. I think the people that like us in the eighties has brought a lot of coolness to some people in the nineties. And now the nineties became the two thousand. And I was saying something the other day before the New Year's, right? I said, do people don't realize that twenty twenty is gonna be an important year for a lot of people?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  You know, twenty twenty is gonna be important because everything you hear is about is twenty twenty. High citing twenty twenty. So what would you do twenty years ago to now? What you do, everything's twenty twenty. And you ask people, what does that mean? What you think it mean?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  What do you think twenty twenty means today? Because we've been using this term for a long time, twenty twenty.

• 16:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  You know, you can go to eye doctor, oh, you've got vision twenty twenty, right?

• 16:14Jay Shetty?

  Well, hopefully people are gonna find clarity.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  But we probably find clarity, but most of the time we get ten, fifteen, fifteen, twenty and stuff like this. But I would say, but it's a twenty twenty, a significant part gonna be this year, pretty much. And I just think that people should really take time out to think.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Because the world is moving so fast right now. And like I said, we had a couple of tragedies this year. And it made us think for a minute.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  And then when we, it's gonna happen to us again. Next week, we will all slow this world down for a minute and open our eyes. It can happen to us in this day and age. Because I see a lot of people in fifty's and sixty's with doing so many hard drugs, so many, so many stuff in the world, man. And you see these people still living today. Why is that? And you're seeing people inflicting themselves with, with pain and stuff like that. And I do it a lot. And that's why I'm surprised I'm still here. But everything is happening because we're inflicting all this negativity in our lives. And we expect people to come and give us positive positivity, energy every day like this right here. Just like this right here. You do it for a living, right?

• 17:34Speaker 01

  And I don't want to insult you or anything like that, but I don't know who in the hell you are. I'm being honest. I have no clue who you are. But these guys gave me some information that the fact that you must got a powerful voice. And that's why I'm here to share my voice with you.

• 17:49Jay Shetty?

  I'm grateful that, man. And I have no, I have no issue with you not knowing who I am. It's such a beautiful thing.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  I didn't have no clue. I said, but I've just heard so many good things since I walked up here. And it's like, wow, he's that, he's that good because you're thirty two years old.

• 18:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, man. I'm, I'm just very grateful that I met a lot of amazing people when I was young.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 18:07Jay Shetty?

  So it all goes back to my mentors, my teachers, my coaches. It's not, it's not me. I can't really take credit for it. I'm just very fortunate. I met a lot of amazing people when I was young.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Yep. Awesome.

• 18:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  So it's, it's like, uh, it's just like if I bring up the subject, Kim Jong-un.

• 18:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Let's go there.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's go there. Let's go there. Cause a lot of people always ask me about that Kim Jong-un.

• 18:33Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. I think people ask you about that, but I, and, and I'm, and I'm doing it differently because I think my perception, and this is what I was saying to the team before as well is I'm more fascinated by you, your choices, the way you live. Like, I heard you say that, you know, one of the only demon that you're fighting right now is convincing yourself you're a good father.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:55Jay Shetty?

  Like, like what's fatherhood been like for you? What's your favorite thing about fatherhood? You hate that question?

• 18:59Speaker 01

  I hate that question.

• 18:59Jay Shetty?

  Why do you hate that question?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Because I'm doing it to myself.

• 19:03Jay Shetty?

  You're doing what to yourself?

• 19:04Speaker 01

  In pain.

• 19:05Jay Shetty?

  So that's, that's a great place to.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Hmm, that's a great place.

• 19:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we, I want to go there.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Go there. Oh, we only go to Kim Jong-un. That's, that's down the road, right? Okay. No, I don't know, man. It's just hard. It's hard to understand how you became such a, a great human being in the beginning of your life and all of a sudden it's all about you now. You don't care about what people think, what people do to you, but you're always sitting there, like I say about that self-inflicted.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  But for me, it's more like it's me, me, me. I can give a about nobody pretty much. That's why kids. And that's the tough part. Why? I don't know. I have no clue I'm like that.

• 19:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  But it's hard.

• 19:46Jay Shetty?

  What helps you think, because you were saying earlier that, and I agree, I'm totally with you. When you said that the world is moving too fast, so Gandhi has a beautiful statement. He said that there's more to life than increasing its speed. And everyone's trying to live this speeded life right now. We don't have time to think, we're focusing on distractions. I'm totally with you. What helps you think and process? Where do you find time and space and gaps and the right people that you've got in your life that help you think through this type of stuff? Or where do you want to find it?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  But it's funny though, you know. I always ask people in Newport Beach, have you been to Newport Beach?

• 20:19Jay Shetty?

  I have, yes.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Right? And I asked people in bars, restaurants, I said, do anybody realize that the fact that,

• 20:28Speaker 01

  do any black people live here?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  I ask people all the time in Newport, do any black people live here? You know, probably, you lived a lot. Your life's now lived a lot. But I would say, you hear any black people living in Newport besides me, Kobe, Shaq? Who else? And a couple of other people that got money? And like I said, but things are moving so fast, even the sports world. Even the sports world, it is so, it is so, it's so, it's so hard and dangerous to live the sports life now. It's hard, man.

• 21:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Because it's more like, okay, great. And when it comes to religion and pride and color and divisions and stuff like that, I get so sick and tired of hearing this, this stuff about black, white. Like, I can't stand it, I cannot stand it. It's just, it's just, you know, like I said, the world's moving too damn fast. But it's amazing though, it is amazing when you see

• 21:31Speaker 01

  black and white. And that's what I was trying to say about the Kobe thing. I said, wow.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  All I saw was around the world, black and white hugging each other. Wow.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  But we wanna, we wanna put certain things in our lives. To screw it all up. But it takes something like this to bring everybody together.

• 21:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  And that's the sad part.

• 22:02Jay Shetty?

  I'm with you.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  That's the sad part right there. And it don't, it don't matter what, what, what color creed you are. But it takes this type of, this type of mess to put everyone together.

• 22:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  And, and for me, I've been like that from day one. I don't care, man. The only thing that I can't seem to figure out is that question. Why I'm, why I'm a bad dad?

• 22:28Speaker 01

  And I think I'm a good dad, but at my kids' age, I suck. And I talk real, I don't care. A lot of people like me because I talk like this. And it's, it's, it's difficult every day. It's difficult to get up.

• 22:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  All the time. Sometimes you wanna die. Sometimes you wanna sit there and try to inflict pain to yourself. So that'll fix the whole problem. But for me, it don't seem like that's working either.

• 22:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  But for me, I think I need someone. Maybe my kids will sit me down and say, hey. Pay attention. It's not all about you every day. I think that's what key I think I need right there.

• 23:07Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  I'm gonna see if that's gonna open a door in my eyes and say, okay, great. Let me pay attention to my kids finally.

• 23:12Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  So.

• 23:15Jay Shetty?

  Thank you for sharing that, man. Thank you for opening up.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 23:17Jay Shetty?

  And I'm with you on that. Let's, there's two points you raised there that I think are super powerful. The first one is, why does it take a tragedy to bring about unity? And I actually went and did a few mini docs last year where we went and focused on areas in the US that had gone through tragedy. So like the, the hurricane in Houston, and we looked at uh, some of the shootings that happened in Orlando. And, and because of that, so many communities that were initially against each other actually came together.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:46Jay Shetty?

  And that's exactly the question we were asking.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:49Jay Shetty?

  And, and sometimes it's the same for us, like what you're sharing. Like sometimes it's the same for us. Like unfortunately, sometimes until we experience deep pain, we don't feel forced to change. And I'm sure you've experienced that in your life where deep pain brought about big changes in your life.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. That right there is a good statement. That's a great statement. I think the deep pain for me has really elevated my whole life as far as thinking. You know, sometimes I understand it, but sometimes I don't understand it. But it is, it is, it is hard to really, when you've done so much in your life, it's, it's hard to really wake up in the morning and wonder what can you do that's different? It's gonna excite your life every day.

• 24:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  You know, I hear a lot of people say, you know, I've done everything in the world. I'm one of them. I'm saying, what's left for Dennis Rodman?

• 24:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there's, there's only one, the one person I've, I, I heard Joe Walsh say something from the Eagles. So when he was speaking at an event, I remember a few years ago, hearing him say that. I wonder how much of what you've experienced though, and you could be honest with, I don't know the answer to this. I'm asking as a student of your life, how much of when you say you've done everything? How much of that is material versus spiritual? How much of that is internal versus external, trying stuff out?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  I think when I start talking like that, I'm always joking about this, this whole thing. I think, I see why I'm talking like this, but I talk just like my mother. I talk like my mother because she's a, you know, spiritual person. I've never been so spiritual in, in her life because she's been playing for the truth for like fifty years, fifty-five years. Piano and she believes in the spirit of love. But every time I start talking like that, I'm like, that's my mother talking, huh? And I started seeing myself doing a lot of things my mother's done in the past. And I'm like, wow, man.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  And it puts a smile on my face and I start thinking about her.

• 25:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Cause she's, she's like, like a lot of the mothers around the world, they've been through a hard, hard stretch in their lives. In the forties, the fifties, sixties, you know, and now things are easier. But for me, I just think that, God, man, I just look at a whole lot of cool things that's happened in my life. And see what, what can I do to bring it forward in this life? You know, I'm trying to like this shit, I'm trying to do something with twenty twenty. I wanna do something about as twenty people, about as twenty people, twenty questions. And focus on the last twenty years of your life and show me hindsight twenty twenty in your life.

• 26:21Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  In your life, on twenty people, twenty questions, doing twenty years, twenty years. Let's give me twenty years of your life right here.

• 26:29Jay Shetty?

  That's a great idea.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  That's it. Twenty years of your life, show us your life and see, you know, I don't, I don't care what it is. What generation, whatever this is, this is, you could be five years old, you'd be twenty-five today. Show me twenty five years, tell me twenty years of your life to this day.

• 26:47Jay Shetty?

  Wow, I like that.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  To this day.

• 26:49Jay Shetty?

  People are so fascinated by you. Who would be your twenty people that you're fascinated by? Like, I'm, I'm, like you said, like, you've done everything, like, I'm, I'm fascinated to know who you would be fascinated by to ask that question to. I think that's a brilliant, that is the best idea I've heard all year. That's a great idea.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  But I want, basically, I want to basically get ten kids on the age of ten.

• 27:08Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  On the age of ten.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  See what they, what they would say. They weren't born twenty years ago. I want to hear what they say they would been doing in the last twenty years. I want to hear that. On the age of ten, I want to get ten, ten kids, going to be five, six, seven, eight, nine years old. I want to ask those ten kids, because they don't give you the answer, something like, you know, I wasn't born twenty years ago. But if you throw a question to the kids today, especially that, that young, oh, but you're working at iPhone, can you? You can sit there and do anything, and what, what iPhone, huh? You can go to all these little secret departments and stuff like that, but you can't tell me what you, you would do twenty years ago till now? You can't tell me, but you could tell me about my life.

• 27:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  But I was, I want to put that to kids, it's how kids responding at.

• 27:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  And then give me twen, give me, give me ten people, age of twenty five to forty. Twenty five to forty. Now, I want to hear your, I want to hear your answers. Hear your answers. I want to hear those kids on the ten years old, who's how similar are they? I want to say how similar are they? And people will be surprised, it could be so similar. It will be so similar, because if you look at families' lives today, a lot of people that have kids, that are parents, adults and stuff like that.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  These kids are pretty much the parents. If you see people that are parents, these parents are walking behind the kids now. They're walking behind the kids. They listen to these kids that's five to 10 years old. You know, there's no control about anything in life today, but, but we do have self-control in certain areas of our life. You know, it's just like they say in China and Hong Kong, they got a different regime over there. When we, when we start speaking out about China and Hong Kong and Tokyo and stuff like that, we got no business saying anything about those guys. No business.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  But the dealers though, they love us. They love American people. They love American people. And for people to sit there and say, look, religions around the country. And what China and Tokyo and Hong Kong is doing, they are trying to do, they're trying to create this new regime now. They want people that's, that's been in, in the, in the parliaments or whatever, that's been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. They want to see this stuff change. Stuff change, stuff like that. It's just like Donald Trump. He wants to be the first thing, first guy to do everything first. You know, oh, I broke America together because of Kim Jong-un. I mean, yeah, you did. Don't forget that black guy. Don't forget, don't forget that black guy did first. Okay?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  So she said, you know, but those things that people don't understand about life, I think you do because I think you have a, a, a full religion about really cool stuff in your life at 32 years old. You know, you say you're Buddhist, right? So many stuff like that. Um, but it's just, it's just, it's just a beautiful way to look at life through my eyes and through your. And try to see some type of weakness and some type of a consistency as far as happiness and joy with people. I try my, to see that. To see that. But it's difficult to see because too much negativity in people.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  You know, people next door here would sit there and tell you to get the hell away from me quick. You know, but. But I love that experiment, man. That's a great idea. That's a great, I'm just saying, people, people would love to tell you, get the hell away from them quick, right? But then when you go to an airport, people are so sad and their voice, they're mad and they're sad. Mad and sad, you know, you'll get more happiness in a, in a hospital than you do in a airport.

• 31:06Jay Shetty?

  Why do you think that is?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  I'm just saying, you ever thought about stuff like that? You go to a hospital, you'll get more happiness there than you would get in the damn airport.

• 31:15Jay Shetty?

  Because again, it takes that, it's when we're in that deep pain.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Well, that deep pain and stuff like that, you know, everybody in the airport is so like, it's so like Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. But you can't go in unless that plane goes somewhere. Okay, so you sit here, you don't want to sit by next to somebody because of, you know, if I sit next to them, I gotta go sit there and wash my hands. Salute my people, you know what, you know what? We're so like diseased to people. Okay, great, so boo, if you go to a hospital, at least people crying, at least people crying for a reason. These people are sad for a reason. These people doing one thing, trying to bless, bless the Holy Spirit to help, help, help. That's right, there's a whole different story right there.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Okay, so when you leave the hospital and the doctor say, it's okay, it's okay. Don't have to run away. It's okay, it's okay. Don't have to hide away. This is my voice, this is my choice. Understand that one, damn. Understand that one, quick. I mean, quick. But this is how I like to talk.

• 32:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  I'm pretty sure you're talking in a different way, but I think.

• 32:29Jay Shetty?

  No, it's great, man, I love this.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  We come like this right here, so, and, and I can say this about me. I try not to try to go too deep into something I don't know anything about.

• 32:40Jay Shetty?

  I love that, me too, man, me too. Tell me, tell me, I want to know, out of, you've said, you've done everything, you've had all the experiences. Tell me about the most joyful experience you ever had. The experience that you had that made you the most happy, for you, whatever it is.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Been broke.

• 32:57Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow, when was that?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Not too long ago. I'm sorry.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  No, I'm screwed. No, no, no, no, no. Just, I mean, Susan, not having money.

• 33:08Jay Shetty?

  Okay. Why, why was that the most joyful, happiest time in your life versus having money and having fame? And why was that the one that you chose? I'm intrigued.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Well, life back then let you live a little bit. There's no pressures. There's no, there's no accolades to do anything that's, you know, significant to hurt other people. So you go outside every day and live, live, live and be happy, happy, happy. And there's nothing, there's nothing that's going to contain you to sit there and say, okay, you gotta go over here and da, da, da, da. Okay, great. I love the fact that I got kicked out of the house. Love that. I love the fact I lived on the street. Love that one because it kept me going today. How I live today. I love the fact that I don't like about money because it hurts me more than anything in the world. So, uh, if you look at some of the things I've said over the years, my interviews, I say, you know what? I didn't play the game for the money. I didn't play the game for accolades. I didn't play the game to be famous. I just love the game.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  I love making people happy. That's all I always say. So that right there is the most happiest time I've been in my life. I was broke.

• 34:12Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's powerful, man. I don't know a lot of people who would say that. It takes a lot to say that.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  So you give me 20 bucks a week, I've had that best going for 10 days.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  I rotted out for 10 days. So, okay, that's me right there. I'll tell you that.

• 34:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And what's been the most, what's been the most challenging part of your life where you overcame a big fear of yours? Or you overcame a big challenge of yours that you were struggling with? Because that was the one that most people would have pointed that for challenging. So now I'm intrigued to hear what, what you have found as a challenge or where you feel like you've really broken through a fear.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  I broke through a fear. I think the fact that,

• 34:52Speaker 01

  I think, uh, a man in my life, I called him my father. I didn't let that bother me.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  I say he could be my friend. I broke through that right there. I didn't let something that was so missing out on my life deter me to keep living the way I'm living. So when something like that comes back in your life, and it was a hurtful thing, it's a fucking painful thing, painful. As a distance, I'm trying not to be like him or something like that. I want to do that. I want to keep it aware, I can say, okay, great, this is my friend. But I broke through that right there. Because I could have just bowed down to him and said, okay, great, you owe me two or three million dollars, man. You know, you came here and ruined my life. You know, you wrote a couple of books about me, you didn't give me a damn dime.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  So, and I'm like, I'm like the first kid you had out of forty-nine, but you still didn't care about me. But you wouldn't get anything anyway what I asked of me. And I said, it's okay. It's okay. Everything's gonna be all right. Every little thing is gonna be all right. And people don't know about that. Every little thing, not the big thing. Every little thing is gonna be all right.

• 36:08Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful, man. That's huge. I mean, I don't know many people who have been in that situation. That's huge. And that's definitely a huge fear to break through. Huge fear to break through. I just want to acknowledge that. It's important to recognize that.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  And it's funny that we're doing your podcast. And they said you're the number one in the world. So I guess they will get a great vision and a view about me and saying that we didn't know some of these things about Dennis. I've written books, I've did interviews and stuff like that. And like I said, for you to be thirty-two years old and have this knowledge that I probably don't have at, you know, when I was thirty-two years old. Your wisdom and your and your outlook and your and your praise about, you know, Holy Spirit and whatever you believe in the world, a lot of people can't get to this gravitation which you got. And I have to pray so that's why you're so famous, that's why this is this is

• 37:04Speaker 01

  really happening for you around the world. You're reaching to people that can't say and can't do what you do. At thirty-two years old, bro, thirty-two years old.

• 37:16Jay Shetty?

  That's very kind of you, man.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  I'm listening. I'm listening. Like I said, I've never heard this before, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna hear about it after we leave. So.

• 37:24Jay Shetty?

  I hope so. I hope so. Yeah, no, I hope so. But but no, man, like I said to you, and and this is why, and I and I mean this, I'm not just saying this, I mean it, like, we are all fortunate or unfortunate based on who we meet in our lives and the impact that they have on us.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:42Jay Shetty?

  Like for you, Pearl Jam, like, I mean, like, you know, I want you to share about that because I think that we have people who either change the trajectory of our life, extend our lives. I was just, you know, if I'm completely honest, I was an average kid who loved the same stuff that every kid loves, right? I I I wanted to date hot women, I wanted to make a lot of money, and I wanted to be famous when I was eighteen years old. Like, what else do you want when you're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen? I wasn't a saint growing up. I was just one of those people who wanted to do everything that was out there in the world. But when I was eighteen years old, I met someone, and and now in hindsight, look back, when I was eighteen, I'd met people who were rich, I'd met people who are famous, I'd met people who are beautiful, but I'd never met

• 38:24Jay Shetty?

  anyone who was happy. And when I met this monk, I believed that he was fully happy. And now, after knowing him for fourteen years, I'm still convinced that he's happy. And when I saw that and experienced that at eighteen, I was like, I want that. I don't want any of this. I want that. I want that experience. I want that feeling because I could see everything else around me. So for me, it's, I owe it all to the people that I was exposed to. And similarly with you, when you talk about Pearl Jam, like, when you're exposed to certain things, that saves you from, it saves you from your own self.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  From your own self, pretty much, yeah. Well, Pearl Jam, that that pretty much put me on on the on different levels for my living. They gave me opportunity when I, you know, because I was lost at that particular time, and I wanted to shoot myself, kill myself, or kill the old Dennis. And and they just came my life at the right time, nineteen ninety-one. And for you to do what you do, I said thirty two years old, eighteen, fourteen years ago. Hey, you want that. I just say the same thing. I wanna be happy. I don't give a damn about anything. I'd rather be broke, be unhappy.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  But Pearl John's a big part of my life. I think certain people that has really integrated into my life. You know, you got Darren Will, you got there, you got certain people, like I said, there's like Brian. That's really been an integral part. Jerry Buss, yes, bless his soul. Jeannie Buss, bless her heart. Phil Jackson, Chuck Daly, James Rich. Those four men right there, I can say his dad too.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  You know, they make a whole team, right? You're the basketball team now. Make a whole team, basketball team, right? Well, you just pick certain people in your life, like as you said, you met this man.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  And I'm, I'm, I met people like that. Like I said, there's four or five people right there, I mean, living right there. They actually changed my life in such a different way. I always say, if you put this in a blender, you, you, you have a, a great human being.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Cause they got different things, change of seasons, change of mind, change the way you think. But guess what? They, they still, they go on the same path, you know, and always be right. But you know what they're talking about, you know what they're trying to get you to, uh, um, get into and, and try to live your life in, in this certain way. And like I said, I love listening to people that has more than me mentally wise. Me too. Mentally wise.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  You know, you give me a million, hundred million dollars, trillion dollars, I, I still, I don't care about that. You know, I would be around somebody that's happy as hell. And this has a cl- a clairvoyancy about how to live life to the day, you know, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years down the road. You know, I wanna get to that happiness, that happy place, you know, you know, obviously, you know, I was happy playing basketball. I was happy as a retired person, as I'm doing now, retired. But it's still, man, there's something still missing for me. Something still missing, man. You know, like I said, I've been a lot of things in my life could have changed my world completely. I could have died many times in the last fifteen years. It has nothing to do with drugs. Maybe alcohol, but not drugs. Drug is alcohol too, but but it's first like

• 41:37Speaker 01

  many times I could have been, damn, and I look at this all the time, man, you know, I just see death, man, like, for me, it's a happiness, it's a blessing. And I'm afraid of living, that's the key. I'm afraid of living. I'm afraid to live. Maybe that's why I keep pushing the damn buttons all the time.

• 41:57Jay Shetty?

  But there's a message in that. If you are still here, having nearly had all those opportunities to die in the last fifteen years, there's still an experience here for you that is waiting for you, that is calling you, that's pulling you to it. And and in my opinion, it's an internal experience because, you know, whatever my opinion's worth, I really feel that external experiences and internal experiences, external ones are tangible, they're gross, you feel them, but the internal experiences take some time and they because they're harder to see and we're not trained to see them, we can miss them sometimes.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Right. You know, and I see things on TV. He's gonna laugh when I say this one. I was just saying straight up. Joe Osteen, I'm just gonna have to say this now, man, excuse me. I don't know. How happy can you get? I mean, how happy can you get? And he's like, seems like the most happiest creature on this planet. I mean, when he started speaking, I can do this. I'm like, oh, my God, right? Right? Like, damn, like, how happy can you get? Is anyone in the world that damn happy?

• 43:11Jay Shetty?

  It depends.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  I'm speaking to all your people out there. Is anyone out there that's that damn happy? That you have no trials or tribulations, that you need no help? Are you that damn happy every day?

• 43:23Jay Shetty?

  That's the, that would be if you define happiness as being free of trials, which is not true. And happiness not needing any help, which is not true.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  That's not true.

• 43:32Jay Shetty?

  How do you define happiness?

• 43:33Speaker 01

  I have to play this, you know, I tried to spell it in different languages. I tried to put it backwards. I tried to put it angrily. I tried to put it every different way, but you know, damn, for some reason, it comes back to the damn. Why are you trying to get there, Dennis?

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Why you trying to get to this happy place? I don't know, Disneyland say the same thing. It's the happiest place on earth. It's pretty close. It's the happiest place on earth. When you leave, you're miserable as hell. So it's like, okay, great. So I've been trying to look for happiness for a long time. And I, you know, I got keys, I got keys in my pocket. Some, some things work and some keys don't. So basically, you know, I do have a key to open a door for my kids' life. I do have keys to open the door for people that need me. But I don't have a key to open the door to keep me, you know, together. Well, I don't, but it's around me.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  It's around me, man. You know, like I said, everyone needs help. I need help every day. Yeah, we all do. We need help every day, man. We all do, yeah. Like I said, one of these days I'm gonna sit down with my kids and have them tell me what's up. I think that's a great idea. Sit down, because a lot of people don't sit down with their kids and say, how you doing? What's up? No, no, no, okay, great. But I'm gonna ask my kids to sit down, maybe in an interview, you know, feel. They can be one of the twenty people. One of the twenty people. I'm gonna hear what they have to say. But I'm saying, in general, just, I would love to ask them on TV so people can see what I've been saying here on TVs and get my reaction. I love that. Why I won't do this?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Why, why I won't take time out to express why, how much I love you so much, but I'm so afraid of the fact that if you tell me no, I hate you that, we'll reject you. That's my only fear with that.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  So if you tell me something like that, I'll probably do something really bad. You know, um, speaking wise. Yeah. So I don't want to do that, but I just, I would love my kids to sit down and ask me three questions about my life and about them. Three questions, that's it. So I want people to see what I've been saying for so many years. And watch me see in my kids' eyes, the pain they go through.

• 45:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, I'm hoping that the way I'm hearing it from you is very sincere. Like the way I'm hearing it from you is like, you really want to learn. You you really want to grow like I'm not hearing it from a and I'm hoping that if your kids hear it in that tone, then their initial reaction may be what you think it may be. But after that, I think people, I think sincerity of intention, the way you're living it, this sincerity and genuineness of just wanting to know. I think that will help them actually tell you the truth. I think that will actually make them go beyond what you think they're going to say and actually give you an opportunity to hear from them. Because of the way you're asking it.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, what I asked them, I mean, I think that people don't understand that it takes a lot, a lot of lot of heart to break down to someone.

• 46:41Jay Shetty?

  Oh, hundred percent. That takes the biggest courage.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  That's the biggest courage, right, that it just let someone break you down for a day. Let them break you down for a day. Let them see, let them see, let them see the you, let them see, open up to me, open up to me. It's it's it's okay to hurt. It's okay to cry. It's okay to have this pain. It's okay. And whenever I do get emotional, I love being happy out there because I think I'm just just cleansing. You know, that day of of this this misery and pain.

• 47:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  And I just, and I get emotional, I love it. I just start smiling. I start smiling when I do that and and I'm pretty sure these three guys right here, these two guys right here, they're not right there. Pretty sure had a bet I'm gonna get emotional today. Wait, I'd be quick.

• 47:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  I know, but I, you know, this is a good format for me, is when people around the world understand how I am in life. You had Kobe, you had all the great people in the world on the show. You know, a lot of people like like Kobe, Tiger, or whoever you had on your on your on your show here. A lot of people try to outsmart people and try to outsmart themselves. Instead of looking in deep and say, you know what, man? I do, I do have the ability to show a little light to the world. And I'm gonna say, it just took forty one years of somebody's life to re- realize how you stop the world like that quick, that quick.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  And that was insane. That's what said stop the world. And that's powerful. That's powerful. So I think this is gonna be a good thing for people to see me when I, you know, leave here today, go to Miami and stuff like that. But the way you probably express it afterwards and stuff like that.

• 48:30Jay Shetty?

  But I think what I really appreciate, and I think we're living in a time now where what you just said, like you sell yourself short when you outsmart yourself. And you sell other people short when you outsmart yourself. And people can tell when you're kind of outsmarting yourself.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:44Jay Shetty?

  So when you kind of put all that smarts out the way and you just go, I'm just gonna be.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:48Jay Shetty?

  And I'm just gonna talk as if I'm, you're literally, I feel right now, I'm hearing your thoughts.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 48:53Jay Shetty?

  You're not filtering them to me.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 48:55Jay Shetty?

  You're not checking them. You're not like, oh, I can't say this. You're not like, oh, I should cut this out. Like, you're not filtering them. And I think people like hearing an unfiltered thought process because that's what it sounds like to be in any of our heads.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:07Jay Shetty?

  Right? And so, and that's the same with me. In this, in this conversation that we're having, I'm also asking you my most unfiltered question.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:15Jay Shetty?

  Because I'm just like, okay, we're going unfiltered. I'm unfiltered too. Like, that's where we gotta go. So my, my next question or next thought that I have is, out of all the experiences you had, what was the one that was crazy for you and that was surprising for you? Which one of your ventures or experiences that you took was the most surprising to yourself? Not just to the world, the one that you think was the most extreme, the most crazy? It could have been meeting Kim Jong-un, but it could be anything.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Right. What's extreme, I think.

• 49:44Jay Shetty?

  The thing that you did that surprised yourself, that you were like, wow, I can't believe I did this. You know, because people think that of you.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Well, I think the most surprising thing, I think a lot of people, um, play this video more than anything for me. I think the fact that people saw an innocent guy come from Oklahoma. And he, and he let the most simple thing in the world touch him. And that video is so powerful, just, just that video alone. That's when I'm, when I was in the NBA, and they'd say you won the Defensive Player of the Year. That wasn't even no money. That was something like that for me to sit there, show the world how much emotional that I felt, the fact that these people gave me an opportunity.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  And I'm not trying to fail these guys. And thank you for letting me be myself. Thank you, guys. Thank you. And I wasn't about no money. It was just the fact that I got so emotional because I worked my to do what I gotta do. No, because I could have went to jail, I could have been a drug dealer, I could have did so many negative things in my life. But for some damn reason, somebody's got a hand on my damn shoulder every day. When I leave here, somebody's gonna have a hand on my shoulder.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  So, and I just praise it all the time. I say, thank you. When I go home, I say, thank you for letting me live, man. You know, I'm not playing no gods or anything like that. I'm just, just whoever's around. Thank you for letting me live another day. Simple.

• 51:10Jay Shetty?

  And have you, have you explored that a little bit, like in terms of like, looked into like, what you think is there for you? What's supporting you? Like, because obviously that's a special, that's very rare and special for you to feel that and experience that as extremely as you have. And you've always had a big heart. You've always had a big, you're known as someone who has this immensely big heart. Where does that come from? Tell me where that?

• 51:32Speaker 01

  I have no, that right there, I don't think I've ever expressed that. What, what, what, why do I have this, this heart that just, this, this totally so big to people? And the same, the same sense is so bad to people. The same sense, same damn category is like, damn, I got this heart that's so damn big, but damn, over here I gotta, I'm so bad. You know, it's like, and, and it's, it reminds me of something that was cool, man. It reminds me of something that's cool. I think it's only been one man that's walked on this, this planet Earth. One man on this planet Earth.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  It wasn't, I don't think it was Jesus. I think it was Moses.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  And he went and part the Red Sea and he told, if you guys wanna join me, come on, everybody's invited.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Good or the bad or ugly, come on, everyone's invited. And he didn't say anything. He said, my hands, my heart is open for everybody. And they came down and gave you the Ten Commandments. Until this day, do you realize those Ten Commandments? People do not abide by those Ten Commandments. And that's a set of rules right there. We always try to teach our kids to try to be, you know, contain some things in life. But if you look at the Ten Commandments, you look at this, just read them. If you ask anybody in the world, do you know the Ten Commandments?

• 52:55Speaker 01

  He said, what is that?

• 52:58Speaker 01

  I don't know, man, what is it? You know, if you ask anybody what is the Ten Commandments, he'll say, the Old Ten Commandments. They say no.

• 53:04Jay Shetty?

  That's a good point.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  So they will say no. Matter of fact, have you seen the Bible? You know, what, what does the Bible say to us?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Kids don't know that.

• 53:18Jay Shetty?

  When did you get exposed to Ten Commandments in the Bible?

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Oh, Ten Commandments, I've been exposed to this since I was like, I got two, three, four, five years old. You know, I went to church three times a day, three, um, three days a week, you know? But it's just funny how when Moses said, I'm gonna part the Red Sea.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  I would like to see somebody do that today.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Somebody do that today, part something that you've never seen before.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  And I told you, I said, I've seen Tiger Woods do that last year for the Masters. Was that last year Masters, when he won the Masters? And everybody on the planet Earth, thousands and thousands of people were following him. He thought that was, he thought that was black Jesus or black Moses or God. And I've never seen him in history, you know, since I've been living on this earth. They say one human being captivate the world. And he happy with it, even though he did a lot of crazy things, sexual, uh, uh, marital, uh, kids, stuff like that. He turned it all the way around in one damn day. And people love his ass.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  And all he did was curse something. That's all he did. But you saw people crying, you saw people laughing, you saw people doing one. That's what I'm saying. That's how powerful certain people in the world can do this. That's how powerful people minds can be, just like that. If you think in a good light sometimes, you know, good love would happen to you. Your life have a lot more shining than it does, a lot more meaning. You know, so I just like looking at things like that that really profound me to keep me alive, keep me focused, keep me in a good light. So.

• 55:04Jay Shetty?

  Are you that kind of person? Like, are you someone who looks back and thinks, I wish I could have done it differently? Or are you someone who thinks, I'm looking for a moment where I can kind of cleanse and let go now? Like, are you someone who looks forward or looks backwards? And what helps you push forward?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  I look a lot of things, you know, backwards to forward. I was looking at things the other day, I said, wow. That Kim Jong-un thing was really big, right? And it was really bad, too.

• 55:35Jay Shetty?

  Tell us about that.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Funny, huh? It was big, then it became really bad. Then it became big again. That's the things I'm talking about right there. Right there. I'm one of the few people on this planet that can have that type of, say, power. You know, one of the few people in the world. I can't do this right here. This is not, this is your thing, you know? But I do things out there. Because now I've tried to tell these guys, you know, say, hey, there is no way in hell I can go out there and try to do this right here. And people believe me at all.

• 56:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we all have different superpowers.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  I mean, saying, for me now, since I've been able to do these certain things around the country, people looking for their next big thing from me. Their next big thing from me. And I said to people, I said, you know what? I said, you know, I'm gonna tell you something. You wanna see another powerful man come to America? Want to see another powerful man? I mean, a powerful man and watch people in America would literally globally watch him. I would say Kim Jong-un, if he came to America. Even though people say he's bad, he kills people, da-da-da. I don't, I haven't seen that. I've seen the country, but I've never seen that.

• 56:51Jay Shetty?

  What did you see when?

• 56:53Speaker 01

  He's training me very well and stuff like that. But I try to put it in perspective. I said, this is the 21st century, man. You know, you can't keep having a hatred every damn day. I mean, it don't go no, it don't go to that far. I mean, we wanna see some happiness in the world. I mean, there's some big things around the world. You know, we wanna see Kim Jong-un, hey, man, come to my country. I love you guys come to my country. Hey, let's go to, you know, South Korea. Oh, okay, great. President Moon. Oh, okay, great. Let's go to Russia and get that guy a chance. Let's go where you get the bat. Let's get this guy a chance. So, you know, that's why I like right there because either way,

• 57:32Speaker 01

  you go around this neighborhood, there's different cultures living with each other, man. Different cultures, just like your culture. You know, I'm here talking to you. I love talking to you like this.

• 57:41Jay Shetty?

  Me too.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Cause I love this right here all day long. You know, so, but I think that, uh, I think people going, is looking for me to do the next big thing in 2020 and it's gonna happen. I don't know when, how, but it's gonna happen in 2020 for me. I, I, I see that.

• 57:58Jay Shetty?

  We're looking forward to it.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I see that.

• 58:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  So, you know, but as I said, it's, but it's, it's not gonna be about the money.

• 58:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  You know, when I went to North Korea, I never got paid.

• 58:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Never got paid doing that. You know, so, but.

• 58:13Jay Shetty?

  What was, what was your happiest? You said basketball made you very happy. What was your happiest moment in basketball? You like happiest memory from that time?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  My daughter came to see me play when I was thirty, thirty-three, thirty-four years old. She saw my first game ever. She was like nine or ten. I had like, I had a triple double that day. I had like thirteen points, twenty-two rebounds and ten assists. And I was like, wow, that was a happy moment. She was all that cheering, cheering, cheering. And that's the only one, one of my kids has ever seen me play basketball.

• 58:45Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  She's the only one.

• 58:47Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  So, uh, speaking of kids, change gears on that right there.

• 58:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, sure.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  The happiest moment in my life, I mean, one of the few that happened, I was in Palm Springs. And these three kids, I'm walking in the store, these three kids are running around, running around with, with a camera phone, running around. And I'm like, what's wrong with these kids? But they just kept running around. And one kid said, hey, can I ask you a question? I said, what is that? He said, is this you? I said, yeah, that's kind of cool, huh? That made me feel good as hell right there. That made me feel good as hell for that day. Cause this kid went out of his way to just, just to let me know, is this you?

• 59:27Jay Shetty?

  He didn't ask for anything.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  They didn't ask for nothing, he said, is this you? And he just, just happy as a clown. And I threw it back, I said, damn, I used to be that happy without a phone. But I'm saying, he went out of his way to ask me, is that you?

• 59:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  And that's, that's, that's kind of, kind of make you feel good because this kid probably eight, nine years old, have no clue where the hell I am. But he went out of his way to go check me up and check me out and say, is this you? I said, yes. I said, great.

• 59:53Jay Shetty?

  I still got it.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  I said, yes.

• 59:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  So those are the things like that makes me happy. I mean, those right there. So I think if people get anything out of, out of this podcast here, they don't get a good revelation, the fact that I don't try to get too deep in a lot of stuff. I love the simple things in the world. I love to let my life simple. I love to say the simple things. And I always say, the most simplest things make you happy. The most simplest things in the world make you money. The most obvious things in the world, that's the problem. To me, to me, the most obvious thing, you can do anything in the world, the most obvious things. Because a lot of people can't make money. A lot of people can't make money.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Because you you play this, you can go sit down and try it, but a lot of people can't make money. And that's a big process to that. Money. You know, we got, when you got Amazon, a guy go in his damn garage, a house, and wrote a damn book, and he's worth about two hundred and fifty billion dollars off of books. Please help me out. I mean, this guy's worth two hundred and fifty damn dollars, I mean, two hundred and fifty billion dollars off of books.

• 1:01:12Jay Shetty?

  And a bunch of others.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  That, that, I'm just saying, it makes no damn sense. The simple thing in the world. And these books are all about us in the world. He sold, pretty much, I sold to the world so people can understand us. Wow. I'm just saying, off of books.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Went from books to everything else. And it's funny though, man, a lot of people say, oh, my God, he wrote, he wrote his wife a forty billion dollar check and didn't care.

• 1:01:47Jay Shetty?

  I like what you said about the simple things.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  It's the simple things.

• 1:01:50Jay Shetty?

  I get that.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Simple things, man.

• 1:01:51Jay Shetty?

  What was it about, what has it been for you in relationships and dating? What are the simple things there that were?

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  God, it's dating.

• 1:01:59Jay Shetty?

  Let's go there.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  We all got that problem, right? We all got that problem.

• 1:02:04Jay Shetty?

  Dating's, dating's tough, and it's got tougher now with technology.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  And I say this with, with, with a great, great admiration to my community, the gay community. And they've been, it's quite a great supporter of me. You know, they asked me in nineteen eighty-three, they said, Dennis, if you came out and said that you was gay,

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  I'll say, you know what, I've probably been the most happiest guy in the NBA.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Damn huh? Hmm. The damn.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Damn. Wow. And people don't even get that part, you know? And people look at me in that light. We've been talking the whole time about this light? Hmm. Stuff like that. If I would've said that I was gay, which I'm not gay, sorry, but my gay community supporting me when I was dressed in women's clothes and doing drag shows and going to dress stuff like that. I would've probably been the happiest guy in the world in NBA.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Happiest guy in the world. Just because the community that I love the most is the gay community. They don't show no filter about anything. They love living life. They love living life. So, I, you know, it's funny though. People say, oh, he's gay. So, whatever, you know? People expect me to be gay. People expect me to do all these things in the world, man. All these things in the world. All of them. Just because you expressed yourself. I expressed myself. You expressed yourself, which gave everyone permission to express. I gave people permission years ago, nineteen ninety-three, ninety-four, ninety-five in San Antonio

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  to understand this guy, Dennis Rodman. Because back then, you know, I wasn't even acting out. I was just more like, just showing this, this, the real Dennis Rodman. The life of Dennis Rodman, stuff like that. And people started to gravitate that around the world. I mean, live it around the world. And now today, that's what we talked about. What are the big things you want to do in your life? I've done it. I've created an image in the, in the sports world that people are praising. The tattoos, independence, say what you want to say, but don't hurt nobody, da, da, da. Do everything in the world in sports. I'm not, everything in the world is sports, people didn't think I can do. But everybody's taking credit for it, which I don't care. I don't care.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  I don't care who takes credit, as long as everybody's happy. And I do get pissed off at professional athletes. So, you guys can understand what I'm saying. You make all this damn money.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  And you're.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  You're making forty, fifty, sixty million dollars. But for some reason, you ain't helping a soul around the world. And I'm saying this to every athlete on the planet. And I wrote a book and said something, this whole thing I'm just saying now. I said, what's, what's, what's, what's one thing about, uh, the, the playing sports in NBA, playing basketball in NBA, I said, fifty percent is money and fifty percent sex. Just like that. And it's true. So, nothing bad about that. You know, that's what life is all about, especially in the sports world. Well, for athletes in the world, when not, I mean, the Super Bowl, Super Bowl, All-Star game, stuff like that.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  I get mad, man, at this stuff. I don't care what they, how much money they make. But it's not like they're trying to give back. Like Bron, Kobe, stuff like that, they give us a lot of, they give back. But people that's making all that money, my forty, fifty million dollars a year, to hear you complain. Complain about what? Complain about what? Oh, I don't, I don't, I don't wanna be with this person, I don't wanna play with this team. I don't give a damn. Because you forgot, you forgot who you were now. You forgot who you were now. You know, you, you came in here, when you got drafted, anyone got drafted, you was all emotional. Oh, fuck it, I'm in the NBA. Now you're making fifty million dollars, oh, screw this guy. Really?

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, what happened to that guy? You know, what happened to all this, that, that, uh, that human, hu- human side of us? What happened to it? It's gone. That's why I said, the world, life is moving so damn fast.

• 1:06:26Jay Shetty?

  Have you ever said this to some of the players or people that you know?

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  They gonna hear it now.

• 1:06:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  They gonna hear it that, like it or not, I don't care. What I'm gonna say, I said, these are things when you go around the board and try to explain to people that live out there and, and understand life in general, just life in general. You know, so, your soul is probably in a great place after fourteen years. Your soul is probably right there where a lot of people needs to be. You know, at fifteen years old, going on fifty-nine, I need to try to get on that path, to try to have some type of happy, fine line about Dennis Rodman. I've been going around the board by talking about this person, these people, these people, how I am, stuff like that. But I'm seeing, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to reach. Trying to find which door is open for me to go in and say, hey.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:07:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  So, you know, but for me to keep talking about it over and over, you know, I just can't, it's kind of hard sometimes because, you know, I'm sitting here, you know, repeating myself about the same thing. And it's like, but I'm just saying, but it's like, but you understand, people understand what I'm saying.

• 1:07:29Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, man.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  They understand what I'm saying.

• 1:07:31Jay Shetty?

  I mean, if I'm completely honest, this is why I said to you before that when I'm speaking to you, because you're so unfiltered, when I'm hearing you talk, that's kind of like how everyone's mind sounds, like our mind repeats stuff every single day. Our mind keeps the same story going on like a broken record for like, but it's like, that's how we process stuff. We process stuff when we sit with it, when we think about it, when we still ourselves, we process it when we let it. Most of us go, I can't think the same thought again, because then I'm crazy. I can't say the same thing again, because then I'm crazy. But actually, you're not, because that's actually what it takes to really process something. So I respect that. I appreciate that. I have nothing against that.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Well, it's nothing against that. I'm just saying, if you, if you want to, want to take the process, like the word process, break that down. Break the process down for me.

• 1:08:16Jay Shetty?

  The process of thinking?

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  No, I want to just, I want to play this. Break down the word process.

• 1:08:22Jay Shetty?

  The word, the word process for me is a series of steps that help you get from A to B, whatever that A or B is for you. So for me, a thinking process is a process that helps you step by step, break down your thoughts, so that you're happy with your thoughts at the end of them, or you have a thought that is useful and insightful that you can do something with. That's what a process is to me personally.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  For you, right?

• 1:08:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  As a ten year old, the same thing.

• 1:08:51Jay Shetty?

  I think they'll say something different.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. Why? As a ten year old, one, one day this has a ten year old, can you break down a process?

• 1:08:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  The first thing you're gonna do, you're on the phone, oh, process.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  They're gonna say that, and then break that down real quick to you. They're gonna say, oh, like a process. Oh, look at this. Okay, great. It's a process about, you know, I'm gonna say, okay, great. So basically, that's, that's your process. But a ten year old, hey, man, they got different process, right?

• 1:09:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  And stuff like that. But you didn't get that at home. You said, oh, you break down a process.

• 1:09:22Jay Shetty?

  That's just my thought process.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Give me a ten year old. Give me a five year old. Give me one. They don't say that. It's just, I'll acknowledge you real quick.

• 1:09:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Dennis, I'll tell you this, this has been a remarkable conversation that I will never, I will never forget.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Oh, that's be fun though.

• 1:09:38Jay Shetty?

  But uh, but I'm gonna, we, we, at the end of every interview, we ask our final five. These are our rapid fire questions, which means you have to answer in one word or one sentence maximum.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:50Jay Shetty?

  Okay, so the first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received?

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Best advice came from Chuck, that he said, good things come to people that waits.

• 1:10:02Jay Shetty?

  Nice, when did you get that? Tell me about that.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  I got that in 1987.

• 1:10:08Jay Shetty?

  And why, why was that the best advice you ever received?

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  Because he saw a young man that's 25 years old, running around with his hair cut off, playing basketball, wild as hell, he said, he just kept, he tried to sit there and process.

• 1:10:21Jay Shetty?

  And were you, were you at that age, able to process that?

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, I wasn't thinking about the whole process, I was thinking, just thinking about the fact that I want to play it.

• 1:10:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  He just slowed me down, said, good things come to people who wait.

• 1:10:31Jay Shetty?

  Nice.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  So that's what he told me.

• 1:10:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, nice, all right. Second question, the worst advice you've ever received?

• 1:10:39Jay Shetty?

  The bad advice?

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  Oh, the worst advice? No, man, that's a lot of it.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  The worst advice?

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Worst advice? You can trust me.

• 1:10:53Jay Shetty?

  Oh.

• 1:10:56Jay Shetty?

  How many, how many people have?

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Don't be saying though.

• 1:11:00Jay Shetty?

  He says that?

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Wow, right? Wow.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  Pretty good, right?

• 1:11:05Jay Shetty?

  When, when, when?

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  That was, that was like, damn, wait a minute, hold on.

• 1:11:09Jay Shetty?

  When?

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  That was pretty good, man.

• 1:11:11Jay Shetty?

  That was great, that was a moment.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Damn, it was like, a moment.

• 1:11:15Jay Shetty?

  When was, when was the first time you heard that? And then you realized that it wasn't worthy of it? When was the first time you heard that, someone said that to you? And then you realized that it, it wasn't true? How did that feel? When was the first time that you?

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  First time I heard that?

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  1986.

• 1:11:37Jay Shetty?

  You've got a great memory.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  1986, that's why I said it's a process. So I'm thinking of all the things I've been telling you the whole time. 1986 is when Chuck Bailey gave me an opportunity for the team. Just even come onto the team. And the things he was saying to me, he broke it all down. But I'm saying, you can trust me, you can trust me.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I trusted him.

• 1:12:01Jay Shetty?

  Right. Number three, question number three out of five. If, if you could, I think you've kind of mentioned this, but you can change it or you can still keep to the same one. If you could give one piece of advice to every player in the NBA right now, what would it be?

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Man, I can say it in a really deep way, but.

• 1:12:19Jay Shetty?

  You say whatever you like.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Keep it, keep it simple, right? What, what kind of advice I give to players today?

• 1:12:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, if you could speak to all the players in the NBA right now, what would you say to them?

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  Don't let money and fame ruin your life. You have a direction and choice without money. Your family, your friends, sometimes it's gonna always be the ending, pretty much.

• 1:12:45Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful, man. Thank you. Question number four. What's one thing that is gonna stay in your mind after this conversation? Something that you're gonna think about that's gonna affect how you live here today? From you, you, you've been guiding yourself in this conversation.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Well, I'll play it this way, I think the fact that for me to even open up and keep telling myself that I have to put my foot, my best foot forward, this is for me, to quit talking about it, do about it with my kids. Quit talking about it, Dennis, and do about it. Because time is moving fast, I keep saying that, but it's up to me to make that first step. That's for me, so.

• 1:13:26Jay Shetty?

  I love that. And you're 20 questions with 20 people, I'm waiting for that. I wanna see that.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  I wanna see it too.

• 1:13:32Jay Shetty?

  I wanna see it. That's gonna be awesome. I'm looking forward to that. I think it's a great idea.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:36Jay Shetty?

  And the fifth and final question is, is super simple.

• 1:13:42Jay Shetty?

  What is Dennis Rodman's purpose right now in life? Or the purpose that you're seeking in life?

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  What's my purpose? You wouldn't wanna hear that one?

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  I don't wanna die tomorrow.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  Say again. I don't want to die tomorrow.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  To live. Yep, that's my purpose in life right now. I don't want to die tomorrow.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  I'm not afraid to die, but it's like I don't want to die tomorrow. I got too much left in the tank for me to accomplish. Too much to give, I'm too much in the tank to give, brother. And for me to go out that way, that's cheap.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  So, that's me, I don't want to die tomorrow. And with good people out there in love, brother, I hope you guys look at me and say,

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  "Thank you." That's it. Love that, man. That's it. Thank you so much, man. All right, brother. I appreciate it, man. Good, baby. You got a lot to give, I love that. All right.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  On October 2nd.

• 1:14:59Jay Shetty?

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me.

• 1:15:04Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:15:11Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped going? You stop, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 1:15:15Speaker 03

  With great power, comes great deniability.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.

• 1:15:25Speaker 04

  Espolone Tequila, balanced, delicious, 100% acave, 0% ego. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth. For a real margarita, ride the rooster.

• 1:15:35Speaker 03

  Espolone Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof. Copyright 2026, Campali America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.