TRISHA PAYTAS: The Truth Behind the Person Millions Watch Online

This episode with Trisha Paytas was filmed on September 28th and set to release on October 28th Trisha Paytas opens up like never before about the experiences that shaped her life, from childhood trauma and her complicated relationship with her father to stripping and the years she spent chasing fame and validation online. She reflects on the rise and fallout of Frenemies, the intense online backlash that followed, and how therapy, DBT, and meditation helped her rebuild her life. Trisha also shares how her marriage to Moses and becoming a mother have changed her perspective on success, happiness, and what truly matters. In her upcoming memoir, Crying on the Kitchen Floor, she reflects on her complicated relationship with fame, her mental health struggles, and the journey that brought her into a new era of healing. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty TRIGGER WARNING: Some of the content in this episode contains sensitive conversations covering suicide. Viewer discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, please call or text 988 (US & Canada), or call 116 123 (UK). Instagram Teen Accounts: Built-in protections for teens. JAY'S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here: https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Introduction 01:50 Warning Lies Ahead! 03:00 Finding Identity Through Motherhood 03:51 Blurry Childhood And Early Exposure 06:12 Seeking Her Father's Approval 08:20 Fears Of Raising Daughters 11:54 Growing Up Without Guidance & A Teacher’s Hurtful Comment 16:26 The Importance of A Mother's Protective Love 18:37 Invented Personas And Her First TV Appearance 21:23 Media's Romanticizing of Age-Gap Relationships 23:32 When A Teacher Crossed the Line 27:45 Advocating Against Power Imbalances 29:14 Moving To LA And Entering Sex Work 33:45 Fear Of Her Husband's Judgment 36:50 Past Lifetimes Vs. Present Spiritual Peace 38:41 From Sex Work To Internet Trolling 43:32 They Don’t Hate Me, They Hate The Persona 44:40 The Real-Life Cost of Your Online Persona 48:20 The First Time Trisha and Jay Met 49:30 Letting Go of Judgment Through Monk Training 52:44 Apologizing To Past Beefs 54:11 The Boy Who Cried Wolf And Police Wellness Checks 56:30 What Are The Vows of a Monk? 01:00:13 The Pitfalls Of Public Relationships 01:00:57 Balancing Public Content With Privacy 01:05:49 2019 Cancellation And Hitting Rock Bottom 01:09:41 Her BPD Diagnosis And DBT Therapy 01:11:40 Peak Success On The Frenemies Podcast 01:16:48 Frenemies Fallout, And The Unreleased Finale 01:19:32 Relentless Harassment And A Severe Psychotic Break 01:24:10 Meditation And Fertility Success 01:29:54 Perspective On The Ethan Klein Feud 01:35:20 Reflections For Her Children 01:36:44 Realizing Love Outweighs Fame And Money 01:39:08 Trisha On Final Five Episode Resources: Pre-order her book | Crying on the Kitchen Floor Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/trishapaytas TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@trishlikefish88 Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/share/1MGw2nnnrf/?mibextid=wwXIfr Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:21Speaker 00

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• 2:08Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon.

• 2:31Speaker 00

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Today's guest is one of the most recognizable personalities on the internet. For nearly 20 years, Trisha Paytas has built an audience of more than 20 million across platforms by sharing nearly every chapter of her life online. Now, in her new memoir, Crying on the Kitchen Floor, she's telling the story behind the viral moments, the controversies and the person she was trying to find underneath it all. Trisha Paytas, welcome to On Purpose.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, thank you. I'm so nervous. I kept saying this before, I'm so nervous.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Tell me why.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  I mean, you're just like the Barbara Walters of this generation. Like, it just feels very much like what's gonna happen. I've seen all your interviews. I think people don't know off camera, like you're very bubbly and cheerful and just a happy guy, but online, you're so serious. I'm like, I'm ready to cry, I'm ready to barrel. And I'm like, oh, my God, what's happening? Are we, are we excited? Are we happy or are we like crying? I don't know.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  All of it? All of it's good. All of it's good. I find it so interesting how, for those of us who live online, and that's why I love doing the podcast, is because when you meet someone, before we start filming, you get a sense of who someone actually is in real life. And you realize, wow, the version we see of anyone online is 1% of who they are. And that's why I'm so glad you wrote this memoir, because I feel like you've documented everything online and yet it feels like there was so much going on behind the scenes. I wanted to start by asking you, you literally start the book by writing, "Warning: Lies Ahead." And you talk about yourself being a unreliable narrator.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  I wanted to ask you, in and amongst all the controversies, the conspiracies, the conversation, the discussion, which part of Trisha are you sharing now? Who are you today?

• 4:21Speaker 01

  I'm trying to be as real as possible because, yeah, starting the book, I was like, gosh, I feel like I was misremembering things. I was told certain things, you know, about who I was and I didn't know. I struggle with like my identity and stuff. So even now in this moment, sitting with you, I was like, I really want to be as like real and honest as possible because obviously I know this gets a lot of reach. I know a lot of people are watching and it's like, so even with the book too, it's really like, okay, this is your one shot to be like super honest. And like, you know, people can tell they're so good nowadays at reading through like the bullshit, you know what I mean? Like they, they know if you're being real or not. So I pride myself in being authentic, but when you struggle with identity, you're like, who am I? You know what I mean? So I just want to be as authentic to who I am now. And it's, I think I'm there.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  I'm thinking of getting there.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Who is the real Trisha Paytas?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  I mean, I really found myself, when I became a mom, I found like more of who I was oddly. Like a lot of people like lose themselves in motherhood and I think I found more of who I was and like what my values were. And I really do value peace in life and simplicity as opposed to like, I think I valued for so long, like materialistic things and drama. And I don't know, I think I was chasing a lot of things that I just, I just felt empty for a long time. But then when I became a mom, I really just found that I'm kind of just like a, I use the word normal and people hate it, like my husband hates when I say normal or I use boring a lot too. It's like, because I'm just, I just love to be at home and at peace and that's what I care about, you know? And then this makes it easy. Everyone has to work, so I feel like I have a pretty easy job compared to a lot of people. So this is, you know, being able to provide, but if I could just be at home all the time, I would with my kids.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  You're talking about being a mom, almost making you feel like more connected to yourself. I want to go back to when you were a child. Like I was thinking about what's a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today?

• 6:10Speaker 01

  I feel like, I think again, going back to the lies ahead, I think my childhood is like the blurriest part. I feel like I blocked out my childhood, like it almost seems like I didn't have a childhood. So I, it's hard, it's hard to like pinpoint anything in my childhood that like made me who I am today, other than like, you know, childhood divorce and stuff. But that's kind of like everybody's story nowadays.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  What were you like growing up? Do you remember?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Kind of know. I kind of was just there. I don't feel like I was super bullied. I don't feel like I was super popular. I just sat home and watched a lot of movies. My parents worked a lot, you know, divorced, they worked a lot. My mom was a single mom, worked a lot of jobs. So I just sat home and watched a lot of movies and television and was trying to emulate movies and television, I think, you know? I don't know. I don't think I knew who I was. I think.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  What were the movies and television you were trying to emulate?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Oh, God. I talk about it a little bit in the book, but you know, my, I looked up to like Taxi Driver or Quentin Tarantino, Reservoir Dogs. And it's like, I watched Pulp Fiction at six, you know? So I was like, that's what I need to be, you know? And it's like, these were kind of the wrong movies to be watching, but.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  But that's what I, you know, idolized, you know? I loved Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver because she, you know, she was 13 and she was just like living on her own and she had like this hot older guy like taking care of her. That's what I got from it when I was like 10, right? So I'm like watching that movie and I was like, oh, that's what I want to be or Kate Fear. And I was Juliette Lewis and her, you know, with her acting teacher just being so hot. And she was just like, I don't know, like I, that's what I got as a child, which I don't know what that said about me as a child or what it said about these movies, but that's what I wanted in life, you know, is to be those damsels in distresses with the worst men, I guess.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  Do you think it was you projecting your experience at the time onto the characters or it was those characters imprinting themselves onto you?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I think I watched them from such an early age. So I just was always like, oh, I need to find like an older man in my life. So like teachers around me or something. So I don't know what attracted what, but yeah, I kind of was just like, oh, in movies, they were always saved by like an older guy. So I was just like, that's kind of what I gravitated to. And my dad wasn't like around. So I was just like, yeah, I was just trying to find anybody. And I suppose that's what, as a child, I like, I identify most with is like wanting to be with, you know, a guy that's going to save me.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, you've talked about this idea of, in the book of like wanting your father's love, wanting his approval, not, not experiencing it. Can you put into words what that was? What was it that you were looking for that you didn't receive that you're on then obviously seeking in these different experiences, watching these shows and movies?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel again, it's probably like a tale, like so many girls and guys to deal with when they don't have their father around is just like not having male guidance or just someone in your life. Like, I don't know, you don't know what you're missing, right? And so I would watch these movies and I'm like, oh, I'm missing, the reason I'm not loved or cared for it is because like I don't have my father, which we saw him in the summers and stuff like that. But yeah, I was surprised how heavy I focused on my dad because we have such a good relationship now, but it was, it was horrible, obviously, growing up and as a teenager. So I think I was just seeking love, attention, hence why I was, got on the internet. It's just like, I just, I wanted attention, you know?

• 9:11Speaker 00

  Instagram teen accounts come with automatic protections that limit who can contact teens, the content they can see and the time they spend on the app. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. Even though you say that it's something we all experience, which people do in different ways, I still think it's interesting to see what people end up doing to get it. And so for some people, it's early dating, relationships. For some people, it's, like you said, going online, pursuing certain career paths. It's, it's fascinating where it goes for you. What was the earliest thing you remember at that time doing for attention? Like, what was the first thing you remember doing?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  I think just probably like just being outrageous, just being, I thought I would watch like Howard Stern, right? So like Howard Stern was on at midnight on the E channel. And so I thought like, oh, if you want to get that attention or validation, like you have to be overly sexual. And so I really overtly sexualized myself from an early age without like knowing it. Obviously now through writing the book and also just through therapy, because I never really talk about childhood. I was like, I realized like, I thought it was just me wanting attention, which it was, but it was kind of like, where did I like learn these behaviors? And it actually makes me like so sad. It's why when I found out I was having a daughter, I like, I was so upset. It wasn't because I wanted a boy, it was just because I like didn't want a girl in this world because I just remember, I don't know, getting so much blame for how I presented myself as like really young, like a six, seven.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Like I remember being really flirty with just men and like learning it from movies. Like I didn't know any other way but that. So I, I remember wearing like really like. I would go with the shirt to school and then I would like take the shirt off and I'd have like a sports bra and just like wanting like that attention again from like seven, like eight, like really young. So, and it worked. I mean, boys in my grade would be like, oh, she has like no bra and like, look at, you know, and then also teachers, you know, like giving me attention and being like, oh, stand up to the class, like show your, show your water bra today. So I think I, as a child, I liked it. You know what I mean? So I always felt some sort of like guilt for everything that happened in childhood and after I was like, well, I wanted this and I did this. So why am I complaining or I can't complain, you know?

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's so fascinating, isn't it? Like, and I'm so interested to hear as we talk today about what you've learned through therapy, but it's so natural as a kid to want validation, to want attention, to seek importance, significance, and, and significance is such a human need too. Like, we all want to feel like we matter. And it's almost interesting because our early years help us figure out why we matter, but we don't always pick the right things to matter for. And it seems like you went in a direction because of the media you were consuming. And knowing that you were so nervous about having a daughter, because were you worried that she'd have to be exposed to the same things?

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Same things and, ah, you know, you still hear about it. I mean, today we were just having a discussion about it. It's just like, you just, girls like will never win, right? When it comes against like men in this world, like it's always like, well, what did the girl do? And we're getting in a different place now, but no matter what, even me to this day, it's like, well, what did you do back then? Or that's why you're like, that's why I was just worried about it. Cause I just think like, we're making a little bit of progress, but not enough. And I just, um, it's just really difficult to be a woman and have anyone actually like listen to you and like hear you. And yeah, I mean, I'm hoping, you know, with the way she's brought up, it's like, you know, gonna be different for her, but I don't know. It's, it's a, it's a scary world as a woman.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  What do you think's changed about being a woman for you back then and now your daughter? And what stayed the same?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I think just like her home life, obviously, like my home life, I didn't, my parents just worked hard. I wouldn't say they were like bad parents. They were just always working. So they were just like never around. So my main focus with my, both my daughters and obviously my son too, is just to like be around. You always see those like memes and stuff that are like, you know, your kids won't know, won't care how hard you work at the end of life. They'll be like, they'll know the memories or that you were there for them. So I think my, my big goal is just to be there. I think, like you were saying, people want attention and validation when maybe they don't get it at home. So I try to give them that as much as possible. So they're not seeking it. Cause people do, I do, I did really awful things for attention. Cause I didn't think I had any other value.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  And I think it's because I didn't hear it from anyone else. Like no one told me I was like smart or, you know, talented or, so I think my whole life, even to this day, I'm like, ah, I didn't really have like a talent, you know what I mean? Like I'm kind of just, I had to do what I had to do just to make money and stuff like that. But I wish someone would have given me guidance. Like, oh, you can do this and you can do this. Like my daughter, I really tried to put her in everything she's only four, but I tried to like put her in everything and tell her she can do anything. And I think that's where I didn't have that.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  What do you wish someone said to you?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  I would have loved to have been like, just one compliment, like, you know, you're, you can do that. Like everything I ever wanted or asked for is everyone's just like, that's such a silly dream. Like again, even from, I, I go back to teachers because that's kind of all the adult guidance I had. So, you know, we'd have like guidance counselors or career counselors and you'd be like, I want to do this. And yeah, maybe early on, like saying you want to be an actress at like seven years old. Of course they might be like, that's not realistic, but to me, I just heard no. So then I was like, I wasn't great at math. I wasn't great at science. So a lot of my teachers would just be like, well, what are you, what are you going to be in life? You know? And I remember early on being told like, you'll just be a stripper. So what did I become a stripper? And it's like, I think kids take to heart what you say, you know? I was like, well, if that's all I'm going to be. And they said it like jokingly or teasingly.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Oh my God, there would be boys in school that would be like, that we had one strip club and I was like 12 or something like that. And they were like, you should just like go work there or something like that. And then it's like, I had a teacher, I had a math teacher. This was my seventh grade year, same thing. He's just like, he's like, well, you'll be on a pole soon or something like that.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  You're a math teacher?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I, I get so nervous talking about my, um, schooling, cause they're like the educators, cause I understand not everyone's like that, but I have such trauma from school. And it happened with multiple. So when people hear that, they're like, how is, how does that happen multiple times? And it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was because I was wanting to be around them and hanging out with them after school and stuff like that. But yeah, it happens quite frequently. Strippers were a big thing, I guess in the nineties, because everyone told me I was going to be a stripper. So I was like, all right, you know, that's what it's, what it's going to be. And it was.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  So you didn't enjoy going to school after that period that you were getting attention at six or seven?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  But after that, it started to feel a bit more negative and?

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe indifferent. Maybe it was like, again, I liked the attention. I think that's what was kind of bad about it is like, I don't know. At the time I felt like, oh, wow, I'm, I'm, I'm something special because they're talking about my body or they're talking about this. I felt, even though I guess people were like laughing at me or whatever, they said it. I don't know. I took it as a compliment. I took it like Howard, Howard Stern would talk to girls on like the Cebian. I was like, oh, I'm like, I'm special, you know? So I think I kind of took that and ran with it for pretty much like the past 20 years.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Wow. I mean, what, what did little Trisha want to be before those kinds of thoughts were put on her?

• 16:22Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think, I think wanting to be an actress or those kinds of things, I think just came from wanting attention. I just saw people, you know, I don't know. I don't think I had any ambitions. I was never like guided in the right path. I never wanted to be like a teacher or anything, you know? I, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't have options. My mom was like a career bartender and she worked really hard. She drove a bus in the morning and then she was a, she's been a bartender for the past like 30 years. And, you know, I saw that. And then my dad, who I didn't see a lot, he was, you know, struggling, trying to do his own business. So I didn't really have a direction of where to go. And I was, I was a really bad bartender. So shout out to all the bartenders. It's really hard. It's really not easy. Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  It's a hard job.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's, it's, it wears on you too. I was able to like retire my mom about 10 years ago, but you know, her hip was bad at 60 and you know, she was just staying, she was working at the LAX for, you know, the past, the 10 years before. And it's like, yeah, it's a really physically demanding and dealing with people. And I was also not good at mixing drinks. So I was a horrible barista. I was bad. I was bad at jobs. So maybe that's why I became a stripper, right? So shout out to everyone who can hold a job, because I could not.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  I'm always fascinated by asking people this. What did you think attention would do for you? Like what were you hoping? Because you said you didn't want to be rich. It wasn't like you were trying to make money, but it was about attention and validation. What were you hoping it would feel? Or what were you hoping it would solve?

• 17:41Speaker 01

  I think just to be like loved. I think my entire life I was looking for like someone to like love me. And if I, so I just thought, you know, people love famous people, people love, you know, people love people that are, so I think I was just looking literally for love, which is like something I like never had in my life, like true, like unconditional love. I like never felt that. Or maybe my parents couldn't show it. So it's, I think that's what it was. I just wanted someone to love me. And I think through everything, you're like, how do people love people in movies? It's like, oh, they're, they're popular, they're well-liked. So I think I was just trying to do that.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, so when I hear you say that, I'm like, just want to give you a big hug.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  I'm like, yeah, just like, I just feel like I hear that, that little Trisha, that, that, you know, that this, this small person inside all of us. And when you say that, I'm like, God, I can relate to that. Like.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Brilliant. That's what I was asking you beforehand. I was like, did you have any turmoil? Cause I feel like your life is just so peaceful and perfect.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  No, I, I grew up in a really, uh, intense home.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And you never talk about that. You didn't do them.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  I've, I've, I've spoken about it over time.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  I have talked about it because it's, I always like to explain to people, like, I didn't grow up in a perfect environment. Like I actually grew up in the opposite. So I got notes on how, what not to be like, growing up. And that's what I did. I just took notes on what not to be like.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  How quick could you change it? Like, were you like 18, I'm going to be a different person? Or did you have to go through some shit as an adult?

• 19:04Speaker 00

  I think I had to go through, I think I realized in my early, like I try, I was mediating my parents' marriage when I was like 10 years old. Asked my parents to get divorced when I was 12. Like I was, I was trying to help them through it.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  So you've always been like a guru.

• 19:18Speaker 00

  I've always, oh God, I don't know about that. But I've always been, I've always, I feel like the reason I do what I do today is because it's all I've ever known.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Wow. So it was like in you?

• 19:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was, it was in me and it was also something I had to do. And so I'm grateful for it because I feel like it set me up for, for a better life because I had to learn these things early on. But I realized that, yeah, and I made bad decisions in my teens because of it as well. When you don't have any guidance, you do all sorts of things. But one thing I've always said is that I feel my mother's love was quite protecting. And I've, that's why I really value this idea of unconditional love. I always felt like my mom had my back, should be there if I needed her, she'd catch me if I fall. And that is just, I feel like that's like undeniably the most powerful love in the world. And so what you're doing for your daughter, like that, that feeling that you have, I think does become this protective shield as kids get older.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  That's good to hear. Cause I'm like, if there's one thing I can do is like, at least make her feel loved, you know, no matter what. So that's good. And you turned out great. So obviously mother's love can do a lot.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  Well, there's, I think there's a balance. I think there's a balance between mother's love and mother spoiling their sons.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  And that's a whole nother thing that we could talk about.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Which one were you?

• 20:27Speaker 00

  No, mother's love. My, my mom was like, I had chores, I had responsibilities. I started working when I was 14, like.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  She had like, I had like things that I had to do.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Not a creepy boy mom. She's okay with your wife and stuff. She's not like, okay.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  I know, I can't be like that either.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  What I find fascinating about you, Trisha, is that, so like you said, many people can relate to what you just said, but the extreme nature you took things to is what makes you so fascinating. Because we all want attention, we all want validation, we all want to feel loved. But a lot of us don't have the courage to say, I'm going to pretend I have a pink addiction and transform my whole space to be pink, or pretend I have a tanning addiction. And to get on to a, like, that's an extreme form of like, I'm willing to do the work.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Right? Like, I'm willing to invent things and do things and whatever else it may be in order to get that. Talk to me about how you even understood that that was a way of getting attention and that you would discover all these ways of getting onto TV shows. Like, walk me through the mindset and the mental process you went through to do that.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's a little mental illness as well. I think that's the difference between some people. Some people are, you know, mentally stable. I think I had, I think I had mental illness from early on and it just, I never got help or sought treatment for it. So I think wanting attention is one thing. I think I had a mental illness even back then. And then I think the lying of it all, all that, like, lying about addiction. I think you, you just used a good word. Was it like I invented? Or I don't know, you said something not lying, which I thought was great. But I lied. I was lying about everything to everyone. If I was acting, I was like, I was in Titanic. I was one of the extras in the pool drowning. You know what I mean? Like, the pool, the ocean, I guess, the ocean. And I would just say, oh, like, there was the movie Three Hundred, and I said I was like one of the Spartan warriors.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  And so I would just like lie, because I think that also was just in my DNA. I think I was just a pathological liar for most of my life. Like, I thought I was so far gone from having anything of a normal life, like a relationship, a job, anything like that. So I was like, who cares if I lie? You know what I mean? Who cares? Like, I didn't see any harm in it at the time. And it was relatively harmless. Yeah, I got on my first TV show because I lied. I wrote, I wrote in as my brother, and I was like, yeah, my sister's crazy. And then they called us, you know? So it's either lying or being like super creative, I feel. I don't know. Like, maybe I was just like super smart back then. But I just really, I just really needed fame. I really needed it.

• 22:59Speaker 00

  Did people believe you all the time, especially with like the Titanic and the Three Hundred Spartans? Or did people just kind of like?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  I don't know. That's a good question. No one questioned it. But, but, yeah, once the internet started becoming like a thing thing, I had to, I had to stop lying quickly because obviously you could just do a little search to see if I was in Titanic or something like that. So I did have to like catch myself in lies. But maybe, that's a good question, if people believed me. I mean, I lied all the time. When I was like on planes as a kid, when I was like thirteen, I'd say I was married with like three children. And I was just like lying to people next to me for no reason. So I don't know if they believed me.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  Where did that come from?

• 23:31Speaker 01

  I guess just the need to feel like more interesting than I was at the time. Because I, you know, I was, I, you know what? There was a movie, and this is, I hate movies like this now, just for the record, like any movie that shows an older man with like a young girl. I frickin' hate them. Why? Because it literally made me think it was normal. So there was a movie called Great Walls of Fire, and it was about Jerry Lee Lewis. And Dennis Quaid was in the movie, I'm a writer. And I think from that age, I was just like, I remember being like, oh, I'm married. And I would say my husband's a musician. Like, I just stole the plotline of Great Walls of Fire to people on the internet, just to feel interesting and just to feel, um, I don't know, the person next to me would be not anybody. I just felt the need to make myself seem interesting and desirable, I guess, to anybody that would listen.

• 24:08Speaker 00

  Why are we still

• 24:09Speaker 01

  I hate it.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  putting out these plotlines to women at a time when, you know, we know that the world has caught up and realized how wrong this is. We're calling it out when it's happening. Like, we need to have higher standards and not, not romanticize and not glorify these types of things and make it look okay and cool and normalize it.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because little girls will think, there was one with Jenna Ortega too, where she was like a college student and there was a professor. And then just like, because the, the little girls, young girls, like, of course, you, you can look at Taxi Driver and be like, oh, you took a romance out of that. And you could be like, no, it was all about, he was the bad guy and this one. But to like a little girl, you're just see like two men fighting for her and trying to save her. So it's like, oh, that's perfect. I would love two men, even as fucked up as they are. So, yeah, I don't love it. I guess it's the same argument. It's like violence in films, does it like encourage violence in real life? I don't know, maybe. But I feel like specifically this toxic romance of like an older man and a young girl. It's like really weird. And I just think it's a little, even in my book, I try not to go into detail about any romance with teachers when I was a child, because I just, I know someone could read it and be like,

• 25:12Speaker 01

  ooh, I know, as a kid, I would have read it and thought it was romantic or like, you know, or like desirable. It's like, oh, they picked you, you know, like. So I was trying not to go too much into detail for fear of that, but.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  That's, that's, yeah, that's so interesting that you had that mindful about that.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Because I still to this day, I can't watch stuff because I know how my mind worked back then. And still, I used to think like it was romantic or sexy and, you know, all that stuff like that. It was, it's very disturbing.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  Did teachers ever overstep?

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the time. I had, I had, I had five different instances. So that's why I moved around to schools a lot. So I think a lot of times we're like, that seems crazy, five times, but five different times. And, um, yeah, I mean, it definitely was like sexual and you, I just didn't think anything of it because I was like, I loved the attention. I loved, yeah, I like loved it at the time, which is like later on finding out, I'm like, oh, maybe that's what kind of set my mind weird. And I don't know, my whole, even with sex, I like think it stemmed from the early on, being that young. I just later on, I'm like thinking I'm asexual because I was like, oh, I never really liked sex. I liked what sex could do, you know? Give you attention, give you a leg up, give you like fake love, you know? It just felt like I liked what it did, but I always hated how I felt, sort of thing.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  When you look back on those moments now, which obviously you seem to remember those five instances, what do you, what do you feel now when you look back at them?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  I just feel, it's shameful. I think I feel really shameful because I, you know, again, the internet loves to dig up stuff. Like even in my early twenties, I would do, you know, sexy dances to like, there's a song called, um, Don't Stand Too Close To Me. It's like by, and I would do like sexy, like striptease to it online. And like, okay, so you were, and in there, I like wrote a whole thing about every teacher that I had romantic feelings towards. And they're like, okay, so you were fine with this as a twenty year old. So like, why do you, why are you trying to shame them now? Where I feel like my feelings changed a lot, even though back then I was, you know, I romanticized it for a long time. But now it's just more shame and I just hate it. But it's like one of those things where it's like, but at the time I didn't. But at the time I was a child, so I don't know.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  I mean, obviously, you know, you know, obviously they were taking advantage of you because there's, and, and it's hard when you logically understand that, but then your experience of it is shame, even though you weren't old enough to know what was right and wrong and where it would go. And that, is that something you've been working on in therapy as well? And looking at that shame and guilt that you're feeling there?

• 27:39Speaker 01

  I think more than ever lately, because I've never talked about it ever. And even like in the book, I really glaze over it. I didn't even want to mention it. I remember working on the book and I worked with a really great collaborator on this book. And so I remember like telling stories, right? And he's like, I feel like something, like you're glazing over something that happened. And I would just say, okay, but we can't, can't write about this. Like, I, you know, I can tell you what happened and stuff. I don't ever want to write about this. I don't want to talk about it. So it wasn't until truly like last year that I was able to talk about it in therapy. Because you feel shame, you feel guilt, you don't want someone to get in trouble for something that you were okay with at the time. Like, it's just, there's so many feelings. And what, when then what are you doing now to change what happened? You know what I mean?

• 28:19Speaker 01

  And it's, it's a, it's a whole, it's a whole thing that I wasn't really ready to talk about with anyone. But lately in therapy, I have, and it's made me feel better and just who I am now and not trying to feel shame or guilt for what I did in my past. Specifically as a child, stuff that I did as like an adult, obviously, the like sex work and stuff, that's a whole other thing. But truly as like a child, I'm trying to like work past that first. And then the sex work I did later on in life, that's a whole other trauma that I, I literally wake up in night sweats sometimes about like OnlyFans and stuff like that. It's like something I just can't shake. It's really hard.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  I really hope you do get a moment to give your child self grace for people taking advantage of you and, you know, the inappropriate behaviors, completely inappropriate behaviors of teachers and people who are older than you that, that should be protecting you. I don't think there's any excuse for that regardless of how you felt about it or being open to it. And you don't deserve to feel any shame or guilt for that.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Thank you. I, I appreciate that. I think. Because of what people seen online and the fact that I have lied so much, it's so hard for me to talk about it. Cause it's like, I don't, with anything I say, it's always gonna be the wrong messenger talking about it because I've done so much bad stuff online. Like I presented myself in such a poor way. So I think I'm sometimes not the voice for this, but I hope that other people who've gone through experiences like this can talk about it and then I can support their voices. Cause yeah, I think some people, you know, obviously don't want to hear from me and I understand why, obviously the stuff I've done online and stuff like that. But I'm hoping somebody, if they're like a fan of mine or know who I am, they'll like read it and they'll like, understand what's okay and what's not. You know what I mean? Or even my own kids. It's like, just so they know. And I'm a big advocate of older men with like

• 30:00Speaker 01

  younger women. I'm a big advocate of it not being okay, especially before like even 18, when you're with 18 year old with a 40 year old. Like I'm the first person to be like, that's, there's so much, there's like the power, the manipulation, there's the power dynamic, there's so much in it. And I just think it's disgusting. And that's my one platform that I can like, the hill I'll die on online is like, I don't think anybody in their 40s should be with someone, obviously under 18, it's legal, but also even 18, 19, 20. I think that should be illegal. I should be like 21 or something. Cause they're still a child. Just because you go from 17 to 18, you're still, you're not fully developed. Your brain is not fully developed.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think what's interesting from, at least from my perspective, you know, reading your book, observing your story, learning about it in that way is like, is noticing how the choices people make in adulthood are coded through what they heard as a child. And so I feel like we can always feel, and it's hard, it is hard as we go on to make choices in our adult life and whatever else it may be. But you can always map it back to child experiences and childhood experiences. And so it's almost like, if we can all be compassionate towards each other's child selves, we can start to understand why people make. And when we understand, it doesn't mean that we overlook or we forgive or move on, but it's good to get that context,

• 31:16Speaker 00

  I think. Cause otherwise, you know, you just think, oh, this is the way someone is. I mean, you, you mentioned it here and I wanted to talk to you about it. You, people told you you should be a stripper, stripper, sex work. I mean, it was something, talk to me about that decision point of you've heard this, but what makes it a reality and what puts you in such a position to make that decision for you?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, LA doesn't help. I feel like if you've had any sort of like struggle with who you are, anything, LA is not a great place. Well, at least back then, maybe it's different. I don't know. Still, but yeah, I came to LA. So I think that's when I knew that I could become a reality. I obviously, I mean, even as soon as I came to LA, I had people be like, really nice guys too. I'd talk about like platonic relationships I had in the book. My neighbor Superman, my friend, Brian, who was, we were platonic. And they, they all kind of steered me in that direction. They're all like, why don't you go be a stripper? And I think that was, again, just the way I presented myself, maybe. And so to me, I was like, oh, okay. Like again, movies, I live my life by movies. I love striptease. So like Demi Moore getting Burt Reynolds and I love Burt Reynolds. And I was like, that's how I'm gonna meet my guy. I always want to meet someone rich and famous. That was like my end goal. And so I

• 32:23Speaker 01

  thought, well, that makes sense to become a stripper. And then obviously finding out the reality of stripping isn't like making a ton of money just dancing. It's, you know, escorting, it's prostitution on the street. It's like all these other things. So I found out real fast, it wasn't like so glamorous, especially for someone like me. I'm not your quintessential stripper, even back then. I was, I have these uneven boobs and all stuff like that. So it was, it was a little more difficult than most for me on stripping. I just, I, I just followed what everyone told me, including strippers. Like girls would be like, just go on the street and this is what you do for $50. And yeah, I mean, I just kind of went by what people told me out here.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  How long did you do it for?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Stripping was um, four years, four to five years. And then, yeah. And then I did, I started out, when OnlyFans came back again, I started a few years.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Now, when you look back at that, what emotions and feelings do you have toward it now?

• 33:13Speaker 01

  A lot of disgust. I, there's like one thing I could tell everybody is like, I don't want to sound judgy, but it's more towards myself. It's more towards young me. I'm like disgusted. I was just talking about this the other day. People were talking about like body counts and how like, doesn't matter, right? And so people say, I've been with four people, I've been with a hundred people and someone who I trust, who was like a really good friend of mine, a girlfriend of mine. And she's like, what's yours? I'm like, I mean, thousands. And she was like, she was like shocked. And then I was too. And then you really think about it. You're like, that's really gross. That's really disgusting. And I think it's disgusting in the sense that like, I wasn't, I don't know how to say this. Like I wasn't in control. Like I thought I was in control of my body. I was like, oh yeah, I'm like lending out my body to people for money and stuff like that. But it wasn't, I really just had such low value in myself that I was

• 33:58Speaker 01

  taking any dollar amount to like touch my body. And I think later on in life, I became a little like more spiritual and how like important my body is and like just knowing it and stuff like that. So I think back then, I just really abused my body by letting so many people touch it and be all stuff like that, that I, I really felt like, this sounds crazy, but like, it almost felt like getting this negative energy into me, like almost like demonic energy. And it's like, I think that's where I noticed a shift in myself and who I was. I used to be like so happy, like go lucky. And then the more I was doing that kind of work, the more um, negative I became. So I don't know. That's only kind of parallel, I could drive to it, but I, I hated it. It's, I think it's so disgusting. And I don't, I don't want to judge other people

• 34:42Speaker 01

  because you have to do what you have to do. Like I did it out of desperation. I did it out of money, like, but I think I would more say it to people. I just want people to hear, like if they're thinking about doing that, like how much PTSD I have. I'm like so disgusted with myself that like, I really can't sleep at night. And there's all about forgiving yourself and all stuff like that. But it's been, especially lately, it's been really a, a little haunting and it's been a little bit um, hard to cleanse.

• 35:04Speaker 00

  Why has it been haunting lately? What's brought it up in that way?

• 35:07Speaker 01

  I think, and I think this book, I think it was great to write it. I think having to be so honest in it. And if I wanted to make an impact, I really wanted to be honest, but it was just stuff that I never talked about or thought about until I looked, looked back at old photos. And I think in the past like year, I have struggled with it a lot. And I'm, I'm, I'm happy to put it out because I think then it's not all in vain, right? Like you think, what was the point of all that? Why did I have to go through all that? And I'm like, well, maybe, and I think everyone could write a memoir. I truly do. I think when I meet people on the street, they're like, I want to write a memoir. And I'm like, you should, because I think there's, everyone's life story could help somebody. You know what I mean? So it's like, if I help one person make the decision not to do what I did back then, um, and that there's other ways, you know, I, then, then it's worth it.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. Is that why you don't want your husband to read the book?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, even he was like, should I read this? And I was like, and even coming here today, because I, we're in such, like I'm in such a good place, you know? And he's like the least, clearly he's with me. He's the least judgmental person. And when I met him, I was doing OnlyFans. I was on drugs. Like I, I was hearing voices and demons. Like, so he's the least judgmental person. I still don't want him to look at me in a different light, because I think people will, right? You read this book and unless you're a completely non-judgmental person, which is very rare to find, there's always going to be judgment. Obviously, I would judge myself. If I read this book with somebody, I'd be like, girl, you're nasty. You know what I mean? And like, it's like a common thing. I would like to give myself more grace. I would like to be myself, like, but I would definitely be like, yeah, I don't know. I just have a lot of judgment.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  For yourself?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would just be like, I get it. I get it. I think that's what the thing is, is like, I'm hyper self-aware of how people see me and like knowing will be meaner or more judgy of me than myself. So I understand it. I get it. I talk about relationships in the book and I understand why someone's like ex-wife wouldn't like me. I understand that now. But at the time, I just remember being like, wow, these people are so judgmental and all stuff like that. But poor decisions, people are gonna judge you for your decisions. So, you know.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  What was something you put in the book before the online world that you're like, that's what I judge myself for the most?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  I mean, again, just the promiscuousness of my, is that a word? Of my um, early years, I think just, I was trying to get pregnant by every single, like any person who could do it. If you were a guy with semen, I was like, trying to get pregnant by you. And it wasn't even like, like a money scam. It wasn't like that. It really was because I wanted to feel like love. So I thought, well, you have a baby and the baby will love you. And that, that's all I'll need. You know, I didn't care about the person. I would never even like tell them. So I think that kind of stuff is like really shameful to me. I'm like, that's crazy. Um, but it's how I thought and it's how I thought for a very long time. It was just, I need to get pregnant and I need someone to love me and.

• 37:54Speaker 00

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• 41:04Speaker 00

  Tempo Learning, available in select programs.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I think probably that amongst other things.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, you started taking pills early in your career to numb yourself, to not feel anything. What were you, what were you trying to avoid? What feeling were you trying to avoid at that time?

• 41:22Speaker 01

  I think loneliness. I think loneliness is like a killer for sure. I think, ah, God, some people are really good at being alone. I was not, and I was just really lonely. I felt alone in this world. And when you feel alone in the world, you just want it to all end. So to not, not do that is I, I just wanted to numb it. I was like, if I feel numb, then you're still like living the life experience without having to feel the feelings, you know? And I was given pills early on and I didn't even know what they were. I couldn't tell you, you know, I could guess maybe now, but I remember getting pills from like 18 and stuff because I didn't even know where you would get prescription pills, Alyssa. I didn't know where you got that stuff, but I just knew the feeling it gave me, which was the feeling of nothing. And that was kind of wonderful.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  It was like how I got through life and I could still have the life experience. And it was, it was great.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  You know, when you're talking about these past selves now, do they feel like different lifetimes?

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Do they feel very different to who you feel embodied to be today? Because when I'm hearing you, that's what it sounds like.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's like a different, it really is a different person. It's so hard to explain until you've gone through like a life-changing moment. I don't know how to describe it. I, you know, I, I had to go through like a psychosis and like this like spiritual wakening. And I'm not like religious or anything like that, but it was almost this like out-of-body thing that I had to go through to, I don't know, start recognizing who I am. It's still really hard. I still am very much like, who am I? You know, like, is, do I like pink or is it a persona? It's very much like that kind of stuff. And it's kind of like, not knowing is okay. I know, again, I know the things I like. I know I like being a mom. I know I like nurturing and like, I don't know, like helping them in life. I know I like that. I know I like just playing with them, being at peace with them. Like, I like that stuff. So to me, what is life all about?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  And I, I really think it is just being with the people you love, which is what I was searching for my whole life. So once I found love for me, it was romantic love and my kids' love. It's not for everybody for sure. That's not everyone's end goal, but it was definitely mine. And I felt like complete then.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  At this point, when we're talking about taking pills early on, sex work, like, could you tell this is something I'm doing for validation, but this is who I am? Or did you get lost in the, both the roles?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  I got lost. I think it was, um, I really thought that's just who I was. I'm like, I'm just this person, you know? Um, I thought I loved sex. I was like, I need any boyfriend, but I love sex. I love this, all of those stuff. So I was really that person. But yeah, looking back, it's, again, I look at it at her, at me, just me specifically and no one else. But like, I look at her with so much like disgust and judgment and like that kind of stuff. And unfortunately, it was me and it was my body. So I'm still like, I still have a little bit of that PTSD in me of like, this energy that I like couldn't fully shake.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  You were saying that there were lots of things you did online that you judge yourself for. And also, you were saying that because of what you've done online, people may not also be as compassionate or non-judgmental with you. What were those things that you did that you remember that you're like, oh, I wish I didn't do that, or I shouldn't have said that? Or I wish, I wish we didn't go into that. And where was that all coming from? Was it all still just for attention?

• 44:26Speaker 01

  For sure. It was definitely attention. To me, when I talk about that, I kind of talk about like my trolling videos. Um, people call it rage bait now. I mean, people just do everything, right? But I, I trolled back then because it was easier than sex work. So to me, I was like, well, I'm not getting like my teeth punched in or something, you know, by posting a video online if I'm just trolling people. And so, you know, stuff that I don't, you know, I, I regret a lot of things of how I put stuff out there. I mean, there's just the whole list. I don't even know, I have to go specifically through it. There's, there's.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  Tell me, tell me the ones that stand out to you.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  You know, I, I regret the way I talked about my, uh, gender identity crisis. I had a video that I got really, we were talking about cancellations earlier, that I got like pretty canceled for and like, but I couldn't understand why at the time I was so combative with it. It was, um, it's called I'm Transgender was my video. And that one even wasn't a rage bait. There are some where I'm like, oh, I was trying to like rage bait. That one I truly was kind of struggling. I was on medications at the time, but, um, I was struggling with my identity. And I think that one rubbed people the wrong way. And then I did one about, I saw this, I saw kind of a podcast like this about someone interviewing someone with this associative identity disorder. And I was like, oh, I think that's what I have. And so basically, I wasn't self-diagnosing myself, but I went online to make a video. I'm like, maybe this is what I had because I couldn't afford therapy at the time. So I talked about it.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  And then that particular host and that, you know, guest, they thought I was like being offensive. So they did a whole video like calling me trash, like putting me into like the trash folder on their computer. And then that kind of triggered me to troll back. So then I was like, well, I'm gonna, you know, so then I, so just stuff like that. Like, I was so combative where I could have just like let things go. Like, I think being misunderstood, obviously, early on, my first trolling video was about how I love Mitt Romney. And I like didn't know anything about him, but it pissed people off and it made me a lot of money, like $8,000. And I was like, well, shit, this is a lot easier than going on Santa Monica Boulevard and hopping into 40 people's cars for this. So just stuff like that, I think, just stuff that I don't believe in and just, I don't know. It was, it was good for the money.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  But again, I mean, money is, in, in my, uh, experience, has been kind of always my downfall if I did things strictly for money, you know?

• 46:31Speaker 00

  When you talk about those things, I feel like, did you, it's almost like you're like, I've got to be this person in order to get attention, in order, of course, to make money. What would it feel like at the end of that cycle? Because at the start of that cycle, you're saying, okay, I'm going to be this person, even if I get hated or liked, gets attention, which gets money. I get fans, whatever. What did it feel like the end of that loop?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  It was a vicious cycle. It's just like, well, you know, I'm also a spender. So it's like, you know, you do all this, you get a bad reputation, but you get the money. So you're like, all right. But then the money would be gone. So you're like, how do I keep stepping it up? How do I keep pissing people off? How do I keep doing this? And then ultimately, by pissing people off for the things that I didn't stand by, people didn't believe the things I did stand by. So my transgender video, I really thought, you know, now they call it non-binary, but I really was like, wow, I don't like being a woman. And so maybe, so I was trying to talking through it. So I stood by it, but because I did, I'm a chicken nugget and I, I see vampires and all these other things. People are like, oh, she's just trolling us again. So it's really the boy who cried wolf with me. And I, again, that's why I'm very okay with not being the voice to stand up for people because it's like, who the hell wants to listen to the boy who cried wolf? You know what I mean?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  So yeah, just another like life lesson to not be the liar. I hate when I see people rage baiting or, you know, doing stuff for attention. So I'm like, it lives with you forever. Like, I can't wait till one day, like the internet be like scrubbed. Like, you know, I, I hope my kids don't have to see a lot of this stuff, but it's, it's kind of forever right now. Like, the internet like does not forget, so.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Have you ever thought about taking all of your videos down?

• 47:56Speaker 01

  I mean, I deleted like 3,000 of them. I think I, but it's up there, you know? Like even writing, like we were talking about like the book. It was like, it was very easy for me to just go and find reuploads. I'm like, what did I, what was I thinking back then? Or what was I doing? Because they're all out there. It's out there for forever. And it's, uh, that sucks.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  It's so interesting, right? Because I'm sure when you see people trolling or rage baiting to get attention, you can see it because you did that.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  And at the same time, if someone would have told you to stop doing that, I imagine you wouldn't have.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  No, yeah, I mean, you don't listen and you just think, you know, the money's worth it or this. And maybe, some people maybe don't care. I care very deeply. Yeah, when you try to like make a change in your life, sometimes you just, you can only grow so much, but some people won't allow you to based on the past. I, I, maybe I think, I think that's fair. I think it's okay for people to not allow you to grow. You know, if you really hurt people, you hurt people. And you can't, you can't take back things you said. So I, you know, I take full ownership if I hurt anybody intentionally or unintentionally.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, you spoke about the transgender video. There was also the video that you did on like, do dogs even have brains? And that one attracted a lot of hate. It's fascinating because there's attention and then you're getting equal amounts of hate.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  But you keep doing it.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  All attention was good attention. Oh, my God, like if I, even if I was getting hate.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Because isn't it, wasn't it hurtful? Or because it was a persona, it didn't?

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think because it was a persona. Um, I do talk about it. Once again, back to a movie, What About Bob? He talks about if he's faking a heart attack, he's not having a heart attack. And so that's how I thought. I'm like, well, if I'm faking this, the people don't hate me. They hate this persona of me, you know what I mean? So I thought in a way I was a genius. I thought I was very talented. I was like, wow, I am an actress. I am this, you know? I talk about Andy Kaufman. And my earliest trolling were Andy Kaufman bits. So I was very misogynistic in my early videos. I'd be like, you know, the women's place is in the kitchen, chopping carrots, doing dishes. And it was like word for word, Andy Kaufman on like David Letterman in like 19, like 81 or something. But people were so pissed, right? Because they didn't know and it was so long ago. And it was so like niche, so people were just like pissed at me. And I was like, oh, well, they're not pissed at me, they're pissed at Andy Kaufman doing this. So, um, that's kind of how I rationalized it.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  It didn't really feel like hate towards me.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  What are the dangers of inventing a persona?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  That is different from who you are? And getting attention for it. What are the dangers of that?

• 50:13Speaker 01

  So many. I mean, one, you get lost in it. I really leaned into it. I just started leaning into it. I was like, this is just who I am. I'm the internet mess. I'm the internet angry person and I just really leaned into it. Um, and then maybe worse than that, the dangers of just other people in, in life, they don't wanna, I'm surprised I'm even here. I think my reputation. Now, I mean, it's a little different. I'm a little older and stuff like that, but my reputation's bad. It's been bad online. People didn't wanna collaborate with me, people, and so I think that's even more is like, if you're putting out a persona that's not you, people are gonna judge you based on what you put out. So people didn't wanna work with me, collab with me, I mean, in real life too, didn't wanna date me, couldn't date me, couldn't be friends with me.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  It's very difficult. When I make like mom friends today, I'm very much like low key and then they find stuff on the internet and I'll be like, you know, and they're not, they're nice, but like, oh, I didn't realize you were famous or that. And you're just like, oh, like, that's not really like me and so, so it's really, it's really hard. Even now, what I put out online, it's, you know, I have a podcast that we like do gossip about like internet celebrities and stuff like that, but it's still not fully me, cause it's not like I'm in day to day life, talking about, you know, Michaela or something, you know what I mean? But that's my persona and it's harmless now. It's pretty fun and whatever, but I don't want people to see that and be like, oh, who's this thirty eight year old like gossiping about like internet celebrities? You know, it's just kind of like a job.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  What are you talking about in real life now?

• 51:31Speaker 01

  In real life? Um, I mean, I'm really just with my husband and kids, so we're, we're very, we're very bubble at the time, cause there, there's, my daughter just turned four, my oldest. So we're kind of bubble. So we're really, you know, we're very Miss Rachel. We're very like cocoa melon, like that kind of stuff right now. We're, it's all about the kids, like everything we do is for them at home. What me and my husband talk about?

• 51:54Speaker 01

  I mean, we get pretty deep. My, my husband's very philosophical. He has a lot of life philosophies and I really like it. When we first started dating in COVID, it was like one week into COVID and I, he just, I just asked him a million questions about the Old Testament. I was like, why would God do that? Like, why do we speak different languages? He's like, well, the Tower of Babel and this and I'm like, and it's so fascinating to me. So he's like an endless, he's very knowledgeable on all things, um, all philosophies, all of it. Yeah. He's very, very. So we do talk about that, cause I still struggle. I still have mental health problems and stuff and I, I do traditional therapy, but I do love, uh, his, he does, he does not, but he does a very, I don't know how you describe him. He has very interesting philosophies, so.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Do you find it easy to switch on and off from the persona now and then going back into mom life and?

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  How, how do you do that now without feeling like you're taking energy from one to the other?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Cause I keep everything lighthearted. I feel like, uh, you know, online, it's very, I have a co-host which helps. So he kind of brings me, he'll tell me topics that I've like never heard of and I just give my like off the cuff, like opinions on it. Makes no difference to me. When we stop recording, I'm just like, I don't really think about this person anymore. And it's, I, I do come at it as a very nice perspective. I try not to be mean to anyone anymore either, cause I don't consider myself a mean person. I used to be. I don't consider myself a mean person anymore. So to me, it's just like fun. It's like three hours of just, I'm having a talk. It's like this, right? It's like, you get to talk for a few hours and then it's like, doesn't affect my real life. Then you go back to real life and it's so different. And I also know more who I am, which is again, I like being with family. I like being in our little like peace bubble.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  All the other stuff is kind of just, just fun, just noise, just whatever. Even like this, it's like, it's my socializing. So it's kind of like, oh, this is kind of fun. Cause you know, obviously I consume media. I like watch TV and podcasts and stuff like that. So it's kind of fun. I, I will say I love social media for that. I love the connection because I don't socialize in real life. So I feel like I know you. We were talking about like, even seven years ago when our paths crossed and I remember thinking like, you know, you're relatively like new to this space and seeing you now. And I'm like, oh my God, like that's what's so cool about the internet is like, I don't know, just kind of, it's kind of like celebrities, but it's also kind of like your friends. So it's like very parasocial. Like I feel like I somewhat know you. And I was like, we talked about you being a monk and I was like, wait, I wanted to be a monk. And so you have this sort of cool connection with the internet, you know? And so.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  I guess at home, we do talk about that too. Me and my husband like to watch like podcasts and stuff.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. You gave me my award at the Streamies. That's, uh, seven years ago.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  It's crazy. You remember?

• 54:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course I remember.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  That's, yeah, I was really blacked out. I remember being really, I don't know, I was drunk or something like that. I was really, that was a dark time in my life, but I don't know why we were presenting it to you. Like you're like this like guru. I was like, why the hell?

• 54:28Speaker 00

  For like health and wellness. It was, it was amazing.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Was it?

• 54:32Speaker 00

  It was for health and wellness. It was like, health and wellness creates a award.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Why the hell they had me presenting? Maybe I, they were trying to be ironic or something.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  Maybe, maybe, maybe.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  That's crazy, especially back then.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  I was like, maybe they're making fun of me. I don't know. Like I'll take it.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  They're probably making fun of me or maybe us together. Like why the hell were we on stage together? Did you think that at the time? Were you like, what the hell?

• 54:51Speaker 00

  No, I, no.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Be honest.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  No, no, no. I've, I've generally like, you know what the truth is? Like whether it was because I was exposed to so much growing up or whether it's because I read a lot of autobiographies and memoirs growing up. I just, and then add my monk training to it. I feel like we were so trained in being quite non judgmental that I kind of, I'm not saying that I don't have discernment or discrimination or, you know, the ability to know right from wrong or whatever's good or bad. It's, and it's not that I'm not a judgmental person. Of course I'm a human. But I think there's a sense of, I'm like, this is what something is. Like this is what it is. I accept what is because that's what's going on.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  I can't change what is. So why would I waste my time trying to, you know, have a viewpoint on it? Because I'm not in charge of what's going on.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  But even for a split second, you're like, what the hell?

• 55:42Speaker 00

  No, I just, I was like, I didn't know I was gonna win either. You don't know you're gonna win those awards. Yeah, you don't know you're gonna win. No, no, you don't know if you're gonna win those awards. Yeah, you have no idea.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  You were just there.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  I was just, I'm there as a nominee, right? And so like you guys introduced the nominees and then they play the tape and then the nominees play. So I don't know I'm gonna win. So I don't have any sense of it. I feel like those moments also go so fast.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never won an award.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Have you not? No.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  What the hell would I win for?

• 56:07Speaker 00

  Really? No, I don't believe that.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  I've never been not, what the hell would I win for? Being a mess, being a train wreck. That's what I would win for.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  You know, just like, you always make, like, you always feel like, I always walk off stage going, ah, I should have done this and I should have done that, you know?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's always that feeling of like, I didn't get it right. But like today, when I'm with you and even when you walked in, like you are so pleasant, you are so nice. And I'm like, how did this human choose to be mean to get attention? Like you, you don't come across mean at all.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 56:36Speaker 00

  Like in any way, like even just like your spirit and what dark place would you have had to be in? In order to make someone else feel bad, in order to get attention?

• 56:47Speaker 01

  But that's why, I think that's another like little bit of wisdom I can have, especially when I talk about like hot topics or drama on the internet. It's like, I know when people are being mean to people, it really is. Like I was the most miserable. I was jealous of anyone in a relationship and people's achievements. So if I was like coming at you and I was so angry, the, it's that old, you know, like, you know, they're jealous of you, they're this, it's whatever, but it's, there is like, there is something to it. It's only people who are like unhappy in their own lives, like get so angry. It's fine to have discourse, of course, and like share your opinion and try to help people in this world and stuff like that. But it's the way I was acting and like attacking people for no reason, like fellow creators too. It was just a place of jealousy from, from me anyways. I was just so angry that people were getting opportunities and being taken seriously and, you know, you remember, how long have you been on YouTube? You said ten years or longer?

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Ten years.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Ten years. So do you remember the YouTube Red shows?

• 57:34Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Everybody was getting a show.

• 57:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  And it like escaped the night and Joey Griseppe was like a friend of mine, but I would be, I was like seething with jealousy. Cause I was like, but I've been doing this longer and I'm funnier. So Grace Helbig would get her own show on E and I was like, but I'm funny. And so I was just so, and so what did I do? I did hate videos on all those people because I was like, they're not funny. They're not this. And it was truly just cause I was like so angry. I wasn't being seen and that's where it came down to. But yeah, I'm not a mean person. I was just a very hurt person. Even back then, when I was being mean, it just came from like, just being angry and just being hurt. You know what I mean? I wasn't trying to like be mean, although I was.

• 58:07Speaker 00

  Have you ever reached out to people and apologized?

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I've apologized. I think I've apologized to everybody, even people who don't deserve like a full apology. I feel like I do, cause no matter what, right? It's like, I always had like a little bit of it. Sometimes I feel like I was pretty wrong fifty fifty, but I, I've apologized to everybody I've had beef with. Except for a couple of people, but other than that I've apologized, but I know what? I think I've apologized to those people too. I think I've apologized to everybody. I'm a very, uh, apologetic person, cause I, I was, I was messy for sure.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  So you actually reached out to people and said, hey, I made this video about you and I, I wish I didn't say this and. Wow.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Like now I'm trying to think, yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  I'm not asking for it to everyone. I'm just saying in general, like.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  I think I have. I think I sent messages to everyone, but never the same. I've never gotten an apology from anyone, ever. Never. Anybody. And I feel like some were pretty fifty fifty. So I was like, damn. But you have to apologize, not expecting an apology back, which is fine. Maybe I have a little bit, sometimes a little bit. Apologies go a long way. Sometimes I think, damn, if that person would just be like, I'm sorry. I'd be like, damn, that feels so good, but never.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think apologies do go a long way.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  They do. Whether they're heartfelt or not. I was like, I had one person that I had beef with and he apologized to like everybody in the video, except for me. I was like, what the hell? Like, I feel like you were pretty nasty, but whatever. You gotta let it go or write a book about it.

• 59:25Speaker 00

  Your crying on the kitchen floor videos, which obviously the memoir is, you know, named after as well, like you mentioned the idea of the, the boy who cried wolf. What were the times when you were really crying out for help? That weren't rage bait or trolling and that got caught in the crossfire of this is just the boy who cried wolf.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  I think all the kitchen floor videos, I mean, any video that starts with me on my floor. I think those were all cries for help. I talk about not identifying who I am, like my, my race and all this stuff like that. Like, I think those were all, I just, I wanted attention. I mean, I also just wanted help. I think there were so many where I was spiraling and I just wanted people to care about me and they did, they, they did. They called, you know, you can do a fifty one fifty, you can, you could do a mental health check on somebody and they'll come to your house. And I got called a lot, a lot of people did wellness checks on me. That was the time when I was like admitted to like, you know, the mental hospital and stuff like that. People would come knock on my door and be like, are you okay? And to me, I really appreciated that weirdly enough, like they didn't always take me to a mental hospital, but they would come and be like, are you okay? And then I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. Everything's great.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  I just post videos online, whatever, but I appreciated that someone out there cared enough to call. So I still appreciate that they came to the house. Like if there was police officers that come to the house, like I would beg for them to like stay with me for like an hour. Sometimes they would, sometimes like, do you want us to call you like an ambulance? And I'd be like, no, because I didn't want to pay it or whatever, but sometimes they'd stay with you. I don't know if they're supposed to do that, but they were, they were nice and nothing weird. They would just sit there. They're like, are you going to be okay? And I was like, no. And then like, well, we have to call an ambulance. I'm like, well, I'm not going to be okay that way. But yeah, the one time I did say I was going to hurt myself, they do take you to a mental hospital.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  How long were you there for?

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  That was just a seventy two hour hold because I was, that was like alcohol and pill induced that one. And I was there for seventy two hours, but I never wanted to go back because it wasn't for me. I don't know those, I really feel like they could also use some work those. I think it's great that they like take you to a place. I think they just need to be able to like provide help because they really don't. They kind of just hold you there for seventy two hours, see if the crazy wears off.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of work that could be done in the mental health space for sure.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  I'd love to do that. Maybe if I like win the lottery, I would like do facilities that actually like help, you know what I mean? Very Dr. Drew, although I don't know if he helps people anymore. I don't know, he used to, he's out show. I don't know, you know anything about him?

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  No, no, I don't.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  What? Oh, I feel like Dr. Drew?

• 1:01:43Speaker 00

  No, I don't.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, no, no.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  I feel for the better, I don't know, he kind of went right wing on us, just fine, no judgment.

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Maybe a little, I don't know. He seems to help people. See, I can still be judgy, that's why I want to be a good monk. Cause I was like, oh, you told me monks couldn't get married or like any of that stuff. And I was just like, well, damn, what else? Oh, so they couldn't spend money or have money?

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  You don't have money, you don't have money, you don't make money, you don't have a job. Because whatever you have is either provided for by donations from the community or what you're given. You don't get to choose what you eat, you don't get to choose what you wear, you don't get to choose anything. The point is to have no choice, the point is to go along with what you're given.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Hmm, they could fix that a little bit too, I think, because I would love to be a monk, but damn, I want to choose my own clothes in the morning.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  No, you gotta do that.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Wait, why? What does it go against?

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  Cause, well, because it's simplicity, it's, you're, you're vowing to be simple and vowing to be away from having to think about things that are not connected to your inner self. So you get more and more focused on the outward.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Honestly, you're convincing me to be a monk again, that kind of sounds nice.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  I mean, I mean, yeah, I, I, yeah.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  You left.

• 1:02:49Speaker 00

  No, yeah, exactly, exactly. It's hard, it's hard, it's really, really hard.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Shout out to the monks.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  It's very challenging.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, the bartenders, the monks.

• 1:02:56Speaker 00

  Shout out to the monks, that is the funniest.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  I feel like they must be doing good, they're channeling something in this world, you know, they're giving peace for the people who can't feel peace. They're like just sitting there, you know, all day, just being at peace, which is kind of beautiful. I love it, can women be monks?

• 1:03:10Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, they are, yeah, they are, yeah. Pema Chodron is a famous Buddhist female monk, she's incredible, her books are incredible. She's written on heartbreak and suffering and yeah, she's unbelievable.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Wait, what's her name?

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Pema Chodron, P E M A. And then Chodron is her last name, C H O D R O N.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  But she wrote books, I thought like monks can't like make money, does she donate that to the monastery?

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  I assume so, I don't know her personally, but I assume so, yeah.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that, I want to be that kind of monk that also writes books. That's kind of funny, you could learn a lot from monks, oh, okay.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  You are an extremist, I wouldn't put it past you, I'm going to meet you in two years and you shaved your hair and like you'd be wearing robes.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  You can have hair either?

• 1:03:45Speaker 00

  You can't have hair, yeah.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  You were bald?

• 1:03:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, even Pema's, Pema's bald too.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, well, no lice.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, there you go.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  That's crazy, there's a, there's a monastery up where I live, Saint Francis of Assisi, have you been up there?

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  Okay, no, I've not been there.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  They, uh.

• 1:04:01Speaker 00

  I've been to Saint Francis, it's a place in Italy, it's spectacular.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe it's based on that, I don't know.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  I assume so.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  I guess there's more than one Saint Francis in the world.

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  No, I'm sure it's the same one.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Saint Francis of Assisi?

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  There's different ones, yeah.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  No, I'm sure it's the same one, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Wow, we have so many connections, I love it, so much in common.

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  You are correct, this, this is why you're good at what you do.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, I got nervous, I just get nervous because it's just like, damn, it's like, I feel like it's like the Jay Shetty podcast. I'm like, let me just tell you all my trauma, but then I'm also like, well, you're not, you're not a doctor, why am I trauma dumping on you? You're probably, it's like, this is a lot for this podcast.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  No, not at all, no, I, I, I mean, yeah, I, I feel like everyone needs a space to be able to tell this part of their life online. And so here we are.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  This is, you have a great podcast for that, especially because I noticed like when I see the females that come on here, like a Khloe Kardashian or obviously like Hade Fani. It's like you have, you are such a good listener, I feel like because men are so awful, our standards are so low, so we're like.

• 1:05:00Speaker 00

  So I'm not that good, I'm just, I'm just better than the average.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you listen, which is half the battle right there. I feel like men, if you just listen more, I mean, my husband's the best listener, he can like listen to me talk for like hours. I think that's what you're really good, I think you're just like good at like letting people talk and especially the women and like that's all we want. Do you have men on here? You have men on here?

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course we do.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  I've only seen the women, so I was like, God, they really love you. And I think it's now I know why, because in person I'm like, oh, you can really just talk to you and you listen, which is wonderful, but I know it's your job. But I'm, but I'm still happy to be here.

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

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• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com. Oh my gosh, talking, talking about men, I was, I wanted to talk about a period of your life in 2017. You're also dating a, a popular social media personality as well. And you're exposed to this life of being public together, everything's content. Now, when you look back on a, such a public relationship that's almost overexposed, what do you look back on and wish you could have done differently or approached differently now that you have the insight that you do?

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  I, I learned so much from that, I mean, I think that's a tough one. Cause I thought that, I felt in my heart that was a real relationship. Looking back, you're like, oh, maybe that was just for content, it's really, it's a fine line, I don't know. Obviously like me and my husband are online together, but I'm really particular about what we post and all stuff like that. Cause it's just like opening people up to your relationship, it was awful for us. I mean, it really, that one fucked with me the most because I was like, does this person even like me? And so it was like this whole thing of, and like looking back now, you're like, oh no, he didn't like you. But, but at the time, I don't know, you just feel like so in love because you're like together all the time. But it dictated our relationship, which made me believe it's not a real relationship, right? If something said, somebody said something about me and Moses now, they'd be like, Moses hates her, I wouldn't care because I know that's not true. But back then when they're like, oh, he hates her, it kind of dictated our relationship.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  And as soon as people didn't like me, then he didn't like me. I mean, I really was kicked out of the group the minute, you know, the audience turned on me, you know? So obviously not real love and, uh, which is, I guess, fine, but I think with relationships, better to keep them off, keep them offline. Are you broke with your wife?

• 1:07:50Speaker 00

  We are, we are on social media, but, but I think it's also like we, we like making fun content together. And we, we've talked about our relationship on long form podcasts and mainly about challenges and difficulties and things that we're working on. And yeah, we go back and forth on it, like we go back and forth on whether we feel good about it, don't feel good about it. Do we feel overexposed? And, and I feel like it's a moving scale and it's, it's not something that you have a rule around and you stick to it for the rest of your life. It's something that you're always reflecting on and evaluating, so.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  It's your job too, but I guess, how long have you guys been together?

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  Thirteen years.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, then you're pretty solid. It's not like she just, she like came around when you were like famous and you're like, oh.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  No, no, I've been, we've been together since I had no job and yeah.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  That's real, you don't have to, I think then you don't have to question.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't have to question the relationship, it's more we think about how much as our lives grow, do we want to

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Share.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  keep private for ourselves and do we care anymore? And you know, what parts do we feel comfortable and, you know, I think, and what do, what does trigger us and what doesn't? You know, I think that changes as well as life goes on. So regardless of how good you feel about your own relationship with each other, I think there's so many other things that come from it as well.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  I'm an overshare, it's better to keep it private, but I, I'd be sharing everything and you know, you just have, my husband's just okay with it. But it's hard, I love to share, I love to share my life, I don't know. But I think in general, it's better to keep it private, you know what I mean? It's just hard.

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  Did you feel that that was a moment after, after the relationship broke down and you, and the relationship was falling apart? Certain things you weren't happy with what was happening, but there was a bit of, again, the boy who cried wolf. Like you felt people didn't really fully hear your side of the story.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  A thousand percent, I think with anything, I'm going to just put that relationship as part of beefs because that's kind of feels like what it was. It doesn't even feel like a relationship. I feel like people, because I was so like disliked, I think people love to see like a downfall. So yeah, I think people just didn't care, I think they just love to be like, fuck this bitch, you know what I mean? So, but I will say. The only little validation I get is like when things go south four or five years later, people like Trisha had said that a few years ago. I feel like I'm always pretty spot on with my intuition. Again, it's just like wrong messenger. It's like, we don't want to hear from you, but which is like, fine if I can be support when shit goes down. And it's not just one situation, lots of my beefs. You know what I mean? And it's like, damn, Trisha kind of called that out. And it's like, I feel a little bit about, I don't feel as crazy anyway. Sometimes I felt like in the time,

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  people like this crazy bitch and stuff like that. But at least there was, people can see a little bit of where I was coming from, the hurt and all that stuff like that. It wasn't just completely out of nowhere, being a crazy bitch to people. And I think that's what people perceive me as is sometimes being like, oh, this came out of nowhere. Trisha just like lost it on us for no reason. And then people can kind of, it's a great thing about the internet too. You can kind of see a track of, people can kind of go back and watch. Shout out to the Gen Z for really, really understanding where I was coming from. Maybe I was like a little, the millennials, are you millennial?

• 1:10:36Speaker 00

  I'm a millennial, yeah.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Okay, so millennials don't really get me sometimes. Not to be the creepy old guy that's like, ah, people my age don't get me, but the Gen Z are really more woke, in tune with that mental health and, and what's right and what's wrong. They have a better moral compass.

• 1:10:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel very connected to my Gen Z audience too.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Right, right. That's true. I guess we kind of came up now with Gen Z because they get it. Well, they love, you know, mental health. I think millennials, we were told by our boomer parents, like, mental health isn't real. And so I think they're all for people being real and wanting to change and all that stuff.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  When I was reading your book and preparing for the interview and thinking about this, I was like,

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  there's a gap, you, you want attention, you do things to get attention, to get money. Then you realize that life's real as you get older and then you're doing things to get attention, but then you're also having real challenges. And then now people can't tell the difference. You can't tell the difference. And when this relationship ends, you end up in what you describe as one of the darkest days of your life. Talk to me about that day and talk to me about the awakening or realization that you come through because of that experience.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  That was tough. I mean, there, there was a couple of rock bottoms for me. That one was really tough. I think because I lost like everything. Like again, all I wanted was like love and I thought I found someone, because that was my first, this is so sad, maybe my first relationship, like a real one, right? Which maybe wasn't even real, but like in my, in my head that was. So losing that meant I lost everything and I, I, and I also lost like my career at the time because I was, I was canceled. I was canceled for just not being in this friend group anymore or whatever. Like people really hated me and it, it, it made me spiral for multiple reasons, right? Obviously with this career, I've been on the internet since 2006 was my first YouTube video. So like this was 13 years of my career that's like, didn't matter anymore because this group of people hated me or whatever. And it started to spiral. And then that year it was, you know, PewDiePie makes a video about me and,

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  you know, Ethan Klein makes a video about me, like all, Nick Akata, like everybody just starts making videos being like, Trisha sucks, which fair because again, I had years of awful content. So I think it was a time to like, really get like dog piled on and my mental health, because I've never sought help. I've been misdiagnosed. I've been not properly medicated, like wrong medication. So I never really had a grip on my mental health. I didn't even know personality disorders existed. I didn't know borderline existed. I didn't know any of this stuff existed. So for me, I was just, I was just spiraling. I was just spiraling really, really hard. That year is like, you know, you tried meth for the first time. You just try anything because you're like, at this point, I'm a fucking train wreck. I was told I like crashed my car into my ex boyfriend's house. So I'm just like, wow, I'm, I'm a felon. I'm this. So this is, this is what's thinking in my head. And for so long, I

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  believed this stuff. I was like, well, I've ruined everyone's life. And so this is, so there was no going up from there. And I wasn't getting help. I didn't have any companionship. I didn't have any like support in my life. And I just, I don't know, it was, it was one of my, it wasn't a full psychotic break, but it definitely was, I don't care if I like wake up tomorrow and I, I, I, yeah, just pills and alcohol and just anything I could, did a lot of it for attention too. I was like, maybe if I try to kill myself and almost kill myself. There was a Desperate Housewives episode where a guy pretends to kill himself to get Brie's attention. And I was like, well, maybe that'll work as long as they're in my system. And it was in my system and I ended up in a hospital, but it just, it was,

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  it was awful. Yeah, that one, they had to like pump my stomach. They shot me with like Ativan. It was like, it was, it was bad. And I did not, I think in that moment, I was like, I don't want to die. And then I thought like, oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm dying for this, you know, this person, this attention. And I didn't want to die. But I don't know, it got me some attention that, that person came back in my life for 48 hours at the hospital and it felt good. It was like, oh, okay. So I kind of was just kind of kept seeking the extreme attention.

• 1:14:29Speaker 00

  Wow. Gosh. That's, that's tough.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  That was tough. That one was tough. That's another one that I feel like not in my life. If I didn't have video and text messages and emails, you know, going through legal for the book to you're just like, okay, let's make sure this really happened. Cause for some, some of it, people told me what happened. So when I went to go write this book, I'm like, let me really like see what I was saying, what was actually happening. And so, yeah, it was, it's, it's crazy because it is almost like a disassociation that happened where it's like, was that my life? It doesn't, doesn't feel like it.

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  When you went to therapy, did you got diagnosed with borderline personality disorder?

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  Same here.

• 1:15:07Speaker 00

  What was that useful? Was that helpful? Like?

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  It was useful. It was a personality disorder and I never had heard of it. I, this was 2019 and that was May of that year. So all this was happening in 2019 and it was, it was really helpful to know that I wasn't just crazy. Like I really thought there was, you know, every doctor I'd gone to and stuff like that. I thought there was no hope for me. Lithium didn't work for me. Like things didn't work for me. So I went to DBT classes, which was like a group therapy for borderline. And it was the first time I heard other people saying the same stories of splitting of, you know, thinking someone's all good, all bad, ruining, self sabotage, like all the things that I was doing, or even thinking a relationship is more than it was. Not to say that relationship, but just, you know, friendships, all stuff like that. So I, it was the first time I heard other people experience what I experienced. Just like, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm horrible with the people closest to me. So when I was hearing what they would do to people close to them, I was like, oh, this is like something

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  emotional regulation. I didn't know that's what I was happening, but I couldn't get control of my own emotions. It was like a different person when that would come out. So that was the first time I ever heard about regulating your emotions. Something we learned as like, again, my kids are four and two and one, seeing my four year old like figure out her emotions. Like that's how I was feeling at like 30. I was like, what are these emotions? And you get frustrated and it was very, it was something new to me.

• 1:16:16Speaker 00

  That period, you talk about like for years, it's like drugs, relationships, controversies online, beef, criticizing others, taking shots, rage bait, all of this for years as a way of coping. Do you try to start pulling those away now that you start getting diagnosed and doing the work in mental health? Like?

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  For a little while. I think I was doing the work and then the work works. And then you're like, oh, I don't need this anymore. And I, that's like a valuable lesson I learned in the past like five years is like keeping up with therapy. Cause the minute I'm like, I'm fine, I'm healed is like the minute I can start like trickling back a little bit. So I think yes, also my age, you know, I was 31 at the time. I'm like, why am I doing all this stuff like that? I tried to be out of it, but you know, obviously I went on to do the friend of me's podcast and, you know, I was in my healing era. I was engaged and I was, you know, going to therapy, but people just loved the drama so much. So I thought, why am I working on myself? Like, let me just tap into the crazy. That's what people like. That's what's paying the bills. That's what's getting views. And I thought that was like a more controlled, safe place to do it. But that didn't work either. So, but people love gossip and I love

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  gossip and I'm good at it. So I found a way to kind of do that without triggering myself and also being mean to others.

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  And with the friend of me's podcast, it must've felt good that people were rooting for you and it almost felt like you were back?

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, a thousand percent. Friend of me's was without a doubt, the biggest career highlight for me. We had five to six million people watching every week. And the problem was is sometimes you get power and people behind you. So now I learned when people like me, I may not use it for evil. And not that I was, it just felt good to be seen. So I wasn't fully healed in the sense that I still held grudges against people in my past. So I was like, I have this power now and I have this army behind me that can help attack people. The problem is when you build like an audience that helps you attack people, they're like, they'll attack you. And that's why, that's what happened to me too. So I realized like, again, this was before my energy era, but the energy I was putting out, which was drama and attack this person and let's get this person and cancel this person. It came back to bite

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  me. And, but that's been my whole life. So I was like, let me, let me change this up a little bit. So after friend of me's ended, I was really trying to shift because I got canceled. That was my worst cancellation. It was my biggest career highlight. And then my biggest cancellation too was friend of me's. Yeah.

• 1:18:31Speaker 00

  And you think it's because what you just said there, you're like, when you built an army? To cancel other people or or attack other people, it ends up backfiring. That energy you were putting out into the world was what you felt was being reflected back onto you.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's karma or what, but I believe in it so much, whatever you put out, you get because damn, the drama I was putting out and getting, it was, you know, it was a lot. It was gnarly. So yeah, it didn't feel good when you were on the other end of it.

• 1:18:56Speaker 00

  Did you ever feel like, because the show was built on these arguments and debates you'd have with your co-host and that's what people came for and that was exciting. Did you ever feel like God, these arguments could go too far? Like, we always say that every joke is a bit of a reality, like every argument, no matter how much it is for entertainment, it felt so real. Did you ever feel like, God, this could go too far? Like, we could say something that could break our friendship?

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  I think because I thought I was with someone who was also extreme like me. We had so many similarities, right? We basically, we told each other early on, like, nothing could offend me. There's nothing you can do to like, you know, ever lose me. And that's like, someone with like borderline personality loves to hear that. It's like, there's nothing that I can do to ever push you away. This is great. So, yeah, no, it didn't. At the time, I thought, oh, there's nothing we can say to each other or do to each other that's gonna like offend the other or go too far. And then I guess, yeah, when it ended, I, that's why I was shocked. I thought people loved, and they did. I, you know, anytime I would walk off, that's what got views and that's what kept it going and that's the basis of the podcast and I was good at it. I love picking fights and I'm triggered easily. Well, back then, I was very triggered easily, but um it worked. It almost worked. It was like me being triggered was a way to

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  make a career. You know what I mean? I was like, well, I'm getting triggered anyways. I might as well make some money off of it. But it was not good.

• 1:20:08Speaker 00

  So in what became the final episode?

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:10Speaker 00

  You get triggered, there's this argument around you feeling unheard, you're not making enough money. It escalates on air, your role in the show, like, are you playing the right part? Eventually, you asked to leave. When you walked off that day, did you know that was the end of the Front of Me's podcast? Did you know that that was the last time?

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  No. To me, that was mild. So I never rewatched it, but writing the book, I had to go back and watch all three walkouts. And to me, I thought that was pretty tame, you know? I left one calling his wife a cunt, you know? I was like, that, you know, and calling him a cuck. And I was like, oh, to me, that's like, you can't walk back from that. But they were like, you're fine, come back. So I was like, all right. As soon as that happened, I was like, nothing is off limits. So, yeah, our last one, I was just annoyed that he wasn't listening to me. I think, I don't know, I was talking about, I don't know, I was talking about something. And he was asking my husband, my fiance at the time, like, if he wants pizza. And I was just pissed. I was like, what the fuck? And then, then it became something else and you know, he loved to trigger me. And again, I loved, I loved being triggered, I suppose. That was my part on the show and it was, it was good money. So I was like, okay, like, this is what we do.

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  The final walk-off, I don't even know. I think I was like, I need to leave, I need to leave, because I could feel myself. All those were real, right? Like, me being triggered was a hundred percent real. Like, I can't act like that. Um, and it is embarrassing. I mean, like, Gen Z, they love to be like, it's so camp. It's not camp. It was very embarrassing. I think I mocked them for having nannies and just stuff I didn't understand before I was a parent and stuff like that. So obviously, that stuff is like embarrassing. But that final one, I didn't think was even that bad. And we had it scheduled that week to do a merch shoot and a vlog. And I thought everything was fine. And even Ethan himself was like, all right, we'll see you tomorrow, basically, like that sort of thing. But again, I think it's the audience you, uh, you build, right? He, he kind of lives and dies by Reddit. So I think once the Reddit turned, it was very much the same thing with Jason and the Vlogspot.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  It was very much like, once there was a turn on me, they have to go with the audience, which I get, I guess. But, you know, for each of those, I thought I had a real relationship, a real friendship. So it was a little alarming. I was, I was very, oh, I was, I was more shocked, I guess, than anything. I thought, oh, this is what you guys liked about me, but.

• 1:22:08Speaker 00

  So the audience turned on you because of what you said?

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was the Reddit that's like, she's awful and she's this. And then I think that's where it all spiraled. Because it went downhill. Front of Me's was a beautiful experience for me, for the most part. And then after, the aftermath of it is where it all went.

• 1:22:25Speaker 00

  And so you felt that your co-host had to follow what Reddit was saying?

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  A thousand percent.

• 1:22:31Speaker 00

  In order to

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Thousand percent, yeah.

• 1:22:34Speaker 00

  Continue with their show and their career?

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, he, I truly believe he was not offended. I don't think he because he's, he can be pretty awful too, you know what I mean? But we were both awful people. And I, I don't think, nothing could have offended him, right? Like, you, you, you, I was so disrespectful in so many other ways before. That's why I was like, nothing can offend him. So, yeah, I think it was just the audience. I think he's like, I don't want my audience to turn on me. So it's easier to turn, uh, turn on Trish.

• 1:22:58Speaker 00

  So did you ask to leave?

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  No, I was trying to come back. I was like, shit, what am I gonna do? Like, it was one of the best money I was making. And I was still doing OnlyFans at the time, so that was, everything was booming. And um, yeah, I was like, no, I need this, I need this podcast. I, I wanted to continue more than anything. I begged to do that final episode. We did a final episode a couple of weeks later. I was hoping that was like a little leeway to come back. Like, I wanted it more than anything. It was, it was a big loss for me.

• 1:23:22Speaker 00

  So how did that conversation go? How did that end?

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  So I did the I quit Front of Me's video. I was quitting, I quit five times. You know, I was always like, I'm never coming back and we're never talking. Like, that was kind of.

• 1:23:31Speaker 00

  That was kind of the game?

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was very much that. I, I know a lot of people would be like, well, he's not a mind reader, but it's like, that's what I always did. I always quit. So I was like, I did the video, I quit Front of Me's.

• 1:23:39Speaker 00

  But would that be something you would mastermind together on the side or?

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 1:23:43Speaker 00

  Is that like a strategy? Like, I'm trying to understand.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  I was a little rogue on that one.

• 1:23:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was a little rogue. We had a pretty open line of communication, but I was, I was really upset. I was really trying to like, you know, cause some waves and stuff like that. It was then a couple of days later when he did his podcast and his response. I think that's what made everything turn, is he did a pretty harsh response, uh, to that. Um, saying that I was disrespectful to the crew and, you know, just a bunch of things that that weren't true. It was just a bunch of, and then I just realized like, oh, this is not a beef. This is not what we were always playing Front of Me's. This wasn't beef. I'd never had any beef like that with any other YouTubers that like came back with like just lies. And I realized I couldn't combat that and I tried. And that was my, my problem is trying to combat.

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  But he had such a huge fan base and I had such a poor reputation that it just all went to shit. So, so that was the end of it. He made that final one. Everyone was behind him. He was crushing it, millions of views per podcast. And I understand why that all happened. I don't understand why he attacked me so much then and now. And I, I take a lot of blame in that. I would say it's a pretty fifty fifty blame in that podcast, uh, of it going to shit. But yeah, it was, it was, it was rough.

• 1:24:51Speaker 00

  Have you guys ever talked about it since?

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  We did a final episode. So three weeks later, we got together and it was great. And he apologized. Moses is, you know, his brother-in-law, known for, so he was shocked. He's like, wow, that went surprisingly well. But he said right after Moses called, he's like, he's not gonna air that. And I was like, why? He's like, because he admitted blame. Just speculation on my part. I feel like maybe he didn't want any of his audience to see any fault. Because this is the day I think he still has never been like, yeah, I was kind of shitty. You know what I mean? Never.

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  So that episode never went out?

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  That episode never went out. And he, he said at the time that, you know, his wife Hila was pregnant and it was causing her anxiety. And so he couldn't air it. Which I was like, okay. It was, it was very pleasant. To me, that episode is very pleasant. I thought that we were, we both took equal um, accountability. He said, I wanted our main producer, Dan, fired. And I was like, show me those texts. So we spent like thirty minutes of him trying to find and it never did. He just, he interpreted it in a very different way. So he just admitted, he's, he just, he said sorry for that. So I wish that would have came out, but I think he had so much fandom and power behind him that he didn't want to lose that, you know? It was easier to kind of pile on me. And then I did go back and forth for a couple of months, but September twenty twenty one was the last time I ever mentioned him or the podcast, because it was just too much. The harassment was

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  insane. It was so bad. And I just was like, okay, I have to, I have to stop. I have to stop this, because it's just that one put me in the psychosis. More than anything, I wasn't on drugs. I was in therapy. I had a fiance, I had every, like, that one is the one that sent me the voices in the head. That one's the one that sent me like, time to jump out this window and kill everybody. Like, it was bad. And I was like, please stop, please stop. I texted them privately. They're like, we're never gonna stop. And then that's when I was like, holy shit, okay. So I, I had my psychotic break and I, um, yeah, and then the next day I became, I became the monk.

• 1:26:32Speaker 00

  Tell me about the psychosis.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  Um, this was September and I had just texted, um, them, like, please, please stop. My fiance at the time, who's not my husband, was getting they were calling ICE on him. They're calling, you know, this is before all this happened. They were like, you know, get, let's get him, they're, they're digging up everything in his past. Me too. There, we were seeing like a fertility doctor. They're calling that place. They found the little sticker and they would call that place. And I mean, it was, it was bad. And I, I was like, can you guys please, please stop this? And like, we'll never stop this. You don't get to control us. Like, you did this. Like, we're never stopping. Yeah, that, I remember just being consumed by the internet. My, my videos are getting reported. My channel has two strikes. If you get three strikes, it's deleted. My channel I've had since I was eighteen years old. At that point, it was fifteen years in the making, was about to get deleted.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  I'm deleting all these videos. I'm just like in this like panic mode. Uh, sponsors are, every sponsor dropped me. I mean, the only ones I worked with were sex ones, like Adam and Eve and stuff like that. And they, they were dropping me. Like, we, I worked with them for fifteen years and they're like, we're just getting so much mail to, you know, so that. And then they, Ethan included, were calling for justice for Mr. Rainey, who was my sixth grade teacher who molested me. And I shared it on the Front of Me's podcast, because I got word that he died, the teacher. And I was like, finally, I can like talk about this. And I felt like safe and I felt like and people championed me on the show. They were like, this is amazing that you're talking about this. And then they used it, they like turned it on me. And every tweet, everything was justice for Mr., hashtag justice for Mr. Rainey.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Ethan went on his podcast being like, how dare she lie on this man, this, this veteran, this everything. And once again, rewriting my own history that he wasn't there for. And I just, I think in that moment, all my fears.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  All my guilt, all my shame came out. It's like, oh my God, I'm the liar. I'm this. And one of my classmates came forward and said, I had a similar experience with this teacher. And basically ran her off the internet. Her dad was the sheriff of our town, of a small town. She's like, yep, my dad can verify that this teacher was fired and this, they found CP on his computer and also like that. I was like, wow, finally someone can like validate the story and I'm not a liar and like all this like that. And it just wasn't enough. They accused her of that being me making them like they, they were calling her dad, who was a sheriff of the town. Like that, I think was the time where I'm like, I will never, I can never escape who I was, who I am, nothing like that. And I just, yeah, I just started literally hearing literal voices. It wasn't like intrusive thoughts.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  It was like, kind of siren-y, almost like very just like, almost like angelic, like as if they were my voice being like, you know what you have to do, like you have to end it all. You have to take yourself out. You've hurt so many people. I mean, I was strapped to the bed. My, my husband's like strapping me to the bed because he was just like, holy shit. And I was like, please don't call. I didn't want to go to the mental hospital because that didn't help me last time. I was like, please don't call anyone. But yeah, he just kinda, he just stopped all night, just like watching, watching me. So I'm not going out this window, like windows locked, all this stuff like that.

• 1:29:26Speaker 00

  How long did the voices last for?

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  It was like 24 hours of voices. It was like, and they were getting louder. Common knowledge would be like, just don't read comments, right? But to me, that was almost like a distraction from the voices in my head. I'm like, okay, let me just read these comments. But it was all, it was all fusing together. It was, it was something I've never experienced before. It really felt, I hate to use this word again, because it sounds like just made up, but it almost felt like demonic, like it really felt like demon energy. And the only other time I could kind of relate to that is like, yeah, when I was selling my body for sex and it was, but it was a very different time in my life. So it was very scary to have this fill up in me again. So I really was just like, oh, it's time to just take yourself out of this world. Like you, you do not belong here. You're making it worse for everybody. And again, I'm, I was scared. I've always been scared. I've always said this, that I was like not suicidal, but like,

• 1:30:12Speaker 01

  there was no choice. Like it felt like someone was like pushing me to this window. It's like, you just, just go at it. Just go at it. Dive headfirst into that cement. Like then you're free, then you're free of this life. And I was like, yeah, but I was scared of that. I didn't want that. So I, it was, it was such a conflicting, uh, conflicting thing. Like I don't, I don't know. I don't know. And I didn't know who to call or what to do. It's just, it's something like a therapist even was just like, you know, you should go to a hospital. You should check yourself in, but I know how that ends. You know, I've done that before.

• 1:30:40Speaker 00

  How did it go away?

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  The next morning I Googled, I talk about this in my book and I literally just like, how to make the voices go away, how to not feel crazy. And I did this in DBT classes too. It's called Wise Mind. It's like, you know, go outside and like breathe. So I went outside. Um, I really turned off my phone. I did everything and I really, I didn't know at the time. I guess I was meditating. I really was just like, just go outside and just try to make the voices stop. Right? And so I was looking at techniques on how to make the voices stop. And what, what came up on Google was meditation techniques, you know, visualize birds, visualize your problems. You know, just like stuff that seemed so hokey to me. I was like, but I was willing to try anything.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  And that began my, I would say spiritual meditative journey where I was just like, damn, it's hard to turn voices off, especially loud ones. But it was working a little bit and I was like, wow, let me just keep doing this. So I kind of did that for, you know, months before. And then I was finally able to like calm the voices completely.

• 1:31:39Speaker 00

  Months?

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  It took months and it's still, it's still, it's still hard, but I love being free of thought. I think that's the real freedom, right? Is when you don't have any thoughts in your head. It's hard. It's hard. You have to like really kind of gaslight yourself into doing it, but it's the only way. It was the only way. And they did stop. I would say the voices stopped hardcore. I wasn't trying to like kill myself or anything within like 24 hours, but I still do it every day. I have to have at least like 30 minutes of silence in the morning before I go on my phone or anything like that. But yeah, it kind of worked. I don't say that for everybody. Obviously depression, anxiety looks different for people. So I don't want to be like, just go outside and stop thinking. But it worked for me and I did everything else. I did pills. I did everything and it, it really worked for me.

• 1:32:19Speaker 00

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• 1:33:04Speaker 00

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• 1:33:48Speaker 00

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• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  I lost everything in 2021, except for Moses. So I know I won't lose him. And he's been my stability. He's been, you know, I don't want to say everything, but he really did help me like change my life. He was a reason to get better. And then my kids, I mean, I know I'm resourceful. I know I'll always make money, right? And so if everything's taken away from me, I mean, my reputation is shit, you know? And if everything was taken away from me, I know I'm okay because I have, I had the love I always wanted and I'm, I'm so like, this was my purpose was my, my kids and stuff. So I'm living my purpose, whether I have an online career or not. My online career was taken from me completely and I survived and I got married that year. I got pregnant after, I've been trying to get pregnant since I was 23 years old. So I finally got pregnant at 34 years old.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Three months after I started this meditative journey where I like let go of drama and everything and just let go of thought. Not saying that's like your key to fertility, but like all that stuff lined up right away. It was, it was, it was, I got married. I got pregnant right away. And I was just like, okay, this feels good. Now that I treat my body better and stuff like that, I think all of it together just feels better. So you could call it hippie dippy, but it worked for me.

• 1:35:14Speaker 00

  How do you think Ethan will react when he hears this version of how you feel?

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  Who knows? It's hard. It's hard because the Ethan I knew was really kind and compassionate. Like the one that did frenemies, like he was triggering me on there for sure. Part of me thinks he thought that was part of the gig that people wanted because behind the scenes, I thought he was really nice. I thought we really bonded. I don't recognize him today. I mean, he's been non-stop, like, you know, constantly just attacking everything, our kids' names and my husband, just like, it's just non-stop where I haven't talked about him at all in five years. And I was like, oh shit, that's not working. I hope he can read the book and see that I truly like cared for him and I was really excited to be a part of his family. And like, you know, I really wanted that friendship and I hope he can be back that Ethan, that was in that final episode where he can also,

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  I just don't know if he can admit any wrong. I would hope, you know, he goes back and forth with being like, I wish our kids could be friends or cousins and, but then also saying to my husband, you know, suck my dick. And it's like, well, and Moses has said nothing about them publicly, like has not. Even in my book, I really try to keep Moses and Gila out of it because they just, he tries to pin Moses as the end of frenemies or he tries to pin something on it. And it's just not, it's between me and Ethan. Everything went down was me and Ethan. I hope he sees that it's me and me that he hurt and me that is like, you know, it's sad that I lost that friendship more than anything. But it makes me sad to see who he is today too. I think he, he really is on the attack mode to a lot of people. And I just feel like that's like not him. But as we mentioned earlier, I think like people who are hurt, hurt people and attack people.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  And I see him being hurt by a lot of people. So then in turn trying to attack, you know, his whole thing is just attacking and, um, I don't know. I hope he sees it not as an attack and as just me just finally being able to talk about it kind of once and for all. I do want to put it in the past. I was like, the book, that's why I want to read, right? Because so many people ask. And every time I did interviews, if I'd done any podcast, like I don't want to talk about frenemies. I don't want to talk about Ethan. I'd always ask them to cut it. So hopefully this is just like the once and for all, like my side. Obviously there's two sides to all the stories, but I just wanted to really put out my thoughts about it.

• 1:37:15Speaker 00

  Would you still be open to a friendship with him?

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  I think too much has gone down. I wish, no, but yeah, it's, he, I mean, it got so personal. It got personal. We talked about my kids and about me and my mom and, um, lies, the Mr. Mr. Ryan. I mean, that one hurt more than anything because I mean, he knew and he knew about my sexual assault and stuff like that. And I'm just like, damn, to really be like, he says he's an advocate for women and all, you know, sexual abuse and stuff like that. And to be like, she lied. It's the one thing I think in like this world that I've like not lied about, that's been so true. So that was backed up by other people. That one hurt the most. I think there's no going back from that for me, but it still makes me sad.

• 1:37:51Speaker 00

  But you felt there was a need for you to share your version.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  I think I just feel better having it all out there and he can come at me, you know, I'm used to it. There's literally nothing more he could attack me for. So it's, it's fine. Everything has been said on his end, I think, or maybe more will come. I don't know.

• 1:38:08Speaker 00

  It seems like Moses has been this. Wonderful consistency in your life. I mean, there's the moment you talk about in the book of, you know, him proposing and you literally going home and getting rid of the Xanax and almost going cold turkey overnight. And it feels like you've talked about that relationship bettering you. What's different about him? What has he done? What has he been able to do in your life that has allowed you to, seems like, love yourself?

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  He loved me so much, through so much. Like, before we were dating, I mean, he saved me. I mean, I talk about going down a K-hole and him coming to the W Hotel to like, save me. Like, he really, I don't know, was showing me a lot of love. And I thought, damn, if this person like, loves me this much, like, I really should probably try to like, work on loving myself. And I always pushed away that before. He just loved me so much that I was like, well, shit, I should try to love myself. And I never thought anyone would have proposed to me. Oh my God, the day he proposed to me, I was like, holy shit, get your life together. So I think with all of this too. And I think that's why I had the psychosis, because Moses was now being dragged into it. And he was the one thing I loved more than anything. So I was like, I need to, I need to just stop this beef. I need to stop the back and forth, because now Moses's like, everything, his immigration shadows, all this stuff was being brought up. And I was just like, holy shit, like, okay, I need to like,

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  stop this pattern, because now he's being dragged into it. And I don't want my kids to be dragged into it and stuff like that. So yeah, I just, I always wanted that like, love. And so to have it made me feel like I needed to change. And he is, he is wonderful. He is really wonderful.

• 1:39:29Speaker 00

  What part of the book are you not looking forward to him reading?

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  Anything before him, even, even our initial meeting, I think he's always hesitant about our beginning of our love story. Obviously, it was a little tumultuous. Obviously, Ethan is his brother-in-law. So from the beginning, you know, I remember early on, one of the H3 podcast episodes where them saying Moses applied to be on the dating show as a joke, and that he was only dating me as a joke. So that was super triggering. So we used to get into full-blown fights, more on my end. But I was definitely, uh, I was definitely awful to him. And so I think those initial stages of not remembering, or, you know, being abusive at times, like, I, I think that part's a little hard. And I think he'd, you know, rather forget that, because we're, we're at a good place. He went to therapy with me. He doesn't, he is more spiritual, so he doesn't believe necessarily in

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  his personal therapy, but he was willing to go for me. Because I was like, hey, I think I, I know I have this like, medical condition, like, maybe try to understand it. And he did go with me. And he's very supportive of it. So I think all the stuff before him, and then even our meeting, I, I don't know, I don't know if he'll read it. I don't know. But it is important to show the flawed parts of our relationship, too.

• 1:40:40Speaker 00

  And what about your children? Like, what parts do you think about explaining to them in the future? And like, have you thought about that?

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  I'm really hoping that I can erase, you know, very Men in Black style, where you just like, erase memories. I'm, I'm really hoping that. But, you know, if I want people to like, learn something and have a takeaway from this book, you know how some people are a mess in life, and it's just the hand they're dealt? I was a mess in life by choice. You know what I mean? I really put myself in like, the grungiest, dirtiest spots of, of, like, the lowest life of human form there can be. And I did it on purpose. And I like, I feel like, um, people can read it and be like, damn, she, if she was that bad off, and like, she can kind of make it through life. And I, I'm so happy in life now. I always say this, like, I cannot believe that I ever wanted to like, not live life, because now I just pray to live. I pray every day. I'm like, can we please live at least 50 years, so I can see my kids and guide them through, and just like, live as long as possible? Like,

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  I love life now. And I like, it's actually so beautiful. Like, life is so beautiful. And the best part about life is the simplicity of it, of just, I love being at home. We don't go on vacations or anything. I love being at home. I love that we have a house. I love that we have a family unit together. Like, I think the meaning of life is just to like, live this life, you know what I mean? And whatever comes next, comes next. And all I know is that like, it gets really good, once you find your purpose. And I do think everybody has a purpose. And it looks different for everybody. It's not just like, marriage and kids, but it's like, everyone has a purpose. And once you find it, it's like, beautiful.

• 1:42:02Speaker 00

  And obviously, this journey all began of you not feeling like you had your dad's love, or attention, and validation, and affection. And now, when you talk about how you don't want Moses, you don't want to say, oh, he's my everything, but he has really been able to give you this love.

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:19Speaker 00

  Are you able to look at yourself with more love and less shame and guilt? Is that?

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he, and he, he's, he's the first person to say, it's like, you can't, you don't, don't give me credit. He hates when I say that. I think Moses loved me. He's like, you have to give yourself credit, because like, you know, you, you've done the work. And, and yeah, I really feel that. I really feel that. I thought I needed someone's love to show that I'm worthy. But really, having someone's love just helped me find out for myself that I'm like, worthy of a really great life. And so, I mean, I'll be honest, if I didn't have Moses, I probably would. I always say that. I'm like, I, you know, that broken heart syndrome, I would die right after him. It'd be really hard to like, live without him. But I, I pray that I, I don't, you know, um, but he's, uh, he's really wonderful.

• 1:42:58Speaker 00

  You've lived a fascinating life.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Is it? I don't know. I really don't.

• 1:43:01Speaker 00

  It's incredible how you can pursue the same thing in so many different ways. That's what's fascinating. It's like, you're looking for this one thing, and I think we can all relate to that. You're looking for one thing, love. And you look for it in validation, you look for it in attention, you look for it in sex, you look for it in fame, you look for it in all of these ways. And then you realize, oh, it can only come from actual love. Like, it can't come from all these other ways.

• 1:43:28Speaker 01

  A thousand percent. And I think I had to go through all those rock bottoms, like, losing all my money, losing my career, losing everything right before our wedding, for me to fully trust in that, that the love is real. Because I like, you know, people will say, obviously, you know, he's worth it for money, he's worth it for this. And it's like, I think when I lost everything, and I had to tell him like, a month before our wedding, like, hey, I owe 1.5 million dollars to IRS, and I don't have it. I just spent our last, I mean, he took out loans for our wedding, everything like that. Then I realized, I was like, oh, man, there's people who just just want to love you. And then it questions myself. I'm like, oh my God, do I, do I love him? Or do I love everything he does for me? Like, it really, I start questioning it. And then, you know, he just doesn't question anything. And I need to be more like that, because I'm very, I'm very questioning everything. I was like, do I, do I know how to love? I don't know. And then when my kids came, I was like, oh, yeah, I know how to love. I love these, these beings so much, just for existing.

• 1:44:14Speaker 00

  Trisha, thank you so much for being so honest, vulnerable, uh, open about

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:44:20Speaker 00

  everything. It's, uh, it's been really, really fun getting to know you and and getting to really have the opportunity to dive into your story. We, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. Uh, we ask these, uh, to be answered in one sentence.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  Oh, that's hard for me.

• 1:44:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Let them. Just let people do whatever. You can't control people, so just let them be.

• 1:44:43Speaker 00

  Great. Uh, what is your worst advice you've ever received?

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, you should become a stripper, probably. Like, I, you, you look like a stripper. You should be on a pole. You'd make so much money with those tits. All of that. Your body is, it should not be used for money. I mean, I'm more powerful. I don't want to be judgy. But, you know, I think when someone told me, like, you would be a great stripper, I was like, shit.

• 1:45:02Speaker 00

  How would you feel if someone said that to your door? Like, how would you?

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  I was just talking about this. I would literally castrate any man who said that. Like, that's, it's literally like, men thinking they have like, this like, control, or this like, perception. And they do it under the guise of like, they're trying to help you. I would castrate? Is that legal? I don't know. I would do something like that.

• 1:45:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's, it's horrific.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  It's horrific.

• 1:45:20Speaker 00

  That anyone said that to you, and the amount of people that said that to you.

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  The amount, yes.

• 1:45:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. Question number three, what would you say is your biggest regret?

• 1:45:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, selling my body for sex, for sure. I felt really, really, uh, yucky. And I never really fully gained myself back from that. Like, I, I don't like my body. I've always hated my body. And I think it was because of that.

• 1:45:39Speaker 00

  Question number four, uh, out of the people you apologized to, who accepted your apology and who didn't accept your apology?

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  Most people blocked me right away. So I, I don't know. I don't think anyone, I don't think anyone accepted my apology.

• 1:45:53Speaker 00

  So you don't know?

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  I don't know. I've always been blocked. Every relationship, every friendship, I've been on block. So hopefully, they hear me now, especially to my ex-boyfriend Sean, who I, um, probably seldom kind of outed him, but I kind of, too, I really apologize. I apologize to a lot of people, but do they accept it? I don't know. They don't have to.

• 1:46:13Speaker 00

  But you meant your apologies. You wanted them. You, you felt them. That's why you sent them.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  A thousand percent, yeah. Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:18Speaker 00

  So people should unblock you and read their DM or text.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I would love to apologize face-to-face to a lot of people.

• 1:46:24Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  I would love, but.

• 1:46:25Speaker 00

  If you saw someone at an event or a red carpet, would you go up to them or?

• 1:46:29Speaker 01

  Depends on who.

• 1:46:31Speaker 00

  Fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  Be kind. Just be kind to yourself and others. It sounds, you know, cliche, but gosh, kindness goes like, a really long way. Like, if you're thinking of something, saying something nasty, you don't have to. Keep it to yourself. Tell it to your husband. You know what I mean? Like, if you really feel the need to like, trash somebody, it's like, just, you know, let's keep that between you and your spouses. Because you don't need to be. There's no reason to be. It's not good for you. It's not good, charmatically speaking. So be kind, and then kindness comes back. Like a boomerang.

• 1:47:03Speaker 00

  Do you feel like you have had to really create a rule for yourself to not do that, because you were so used to criticizing others and judging and and putting out that energy into the world? How have you learned to realize that? How do you stop yourself when it's been such a habit and a pattern for so long?

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  I think you said it earlier in this podcast, and I thought, it's like, something that I really stand by as well, is, you know, really looking at people as their child self, right? Like, I have kids now, so thinking someone could be mean to my kids, or would I want them to say that to my kids? Like, everyone started out as a child, and children are so innocent, right? Children are very innocent, something along the way. They get traumatized, they get jaded, there's, you know, PTSD, all stuff like that. And it's like, I treat everyone, I try to, as if it's like, you know, it's someone's child. You know, I wouldn't want someone being nasty to my daughter online, or dragging my son through the mud, or something like that. So that's how I try to practice kindness, even when I'm really upset. I'm really just like, okay, do I need to drag them publicly? Do, no, it helps no one. Dragging someone publicly helps absolutely nobody.

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  Um, and it just fuels more people in the fire, and it just, it does nothing.

• 1:48:10Speaker 00

  Tricia Paeis, uh, your book is now out, Crying on the Kitchen Floor Memoir. I'm sure there's a lot of people who can't wait to just dive into this.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  I know. I'm like, scared.

• 1:48:22Speaker 00

  And, uh,

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  That was nice. Did you read it?

• 1:48:24Speaker 00

  I did. I read parts of it. I didn't read all of it. I read parts of it.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  That's pretty good. I feel like that's pretty, that's pretty nice.

• 1:48:29Speaker 00

  You're very honest. Yeah. And I, I mean, you're very nice in person, too. But I mean, this episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here, and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for a healthier season. For a start, they've banned more than 300 ingredients, so the full flavors you love really come through with nothing in the way. Like, there's no bleached or bromated flowers, or high fructose corn syrup in any of their delicious baked goods. And they can help you get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lozenges, and supplements. Shop full flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  Streaming October 30th on Paramount Plus.

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for that.

• 1:49:16Speaker 02

  He's back.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  I'm older. I'm wiser.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  And sharper than ever.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  Things are gonna get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  Dexter Resurrection, new season October 30th on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan.

• 1:49:35Speaker 04

  Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's premium wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's, it's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch.

• 1:49:59Speaker 05

  Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

• 1:50:05Speaker 00

  Like, I think it was just very honest. It felt very real.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 1:50:09Speaker 00

  Which I think is good.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  I really tried.

• 1:50:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.