EILEEN GU: “The Ground Was Cracking Beneath Me.”

Jay sits down with Eileen Gu, the most decorated freestyle skier in Olympic history, to go behind the resume and into the mindset that built it all. Eileen opens up about the grandmother and mother who shaped her, why direction matters more than raw effort, her “evidence over affirmation” approach to fearless competition, and the devastating personal loss she carried in the very same hour as her Olympic gold medal win. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty PURPOSE10 for 10% at altrarunning.com⁠/onpurpose. Free Shipping and Free 30-Day Trial. Mazda crafts cars for people who do more than simply move. Visit Mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer reports does not endorse products or services. JAY’S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here: https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Introduction 01:25 Who Are You Beyond Your Achievements? 03:12 The Childhood Curiosity That Shaped Everything 05:52 What Her Childhood Journals Reveal Now 09:20 Rethinking Masculinity, Femininity & Fashion 11:30 The Weekend Trips That Built an Olympian 14:37 The Two Women Who Shaped Who She Became 17:38 Even Olympians Can Feel “Behind” In Their 20s 19:37 Hard Work Vs. Direction And Momentum 22:38 Finding Direction Amid Unlimited Opportunities 26:29 Learning As A Superpower 31:22 Train Like You’ve Never Won 36:06 Seperating Your Identity From Your Craft 41:34 Evidence Over Affirmation 43:34 The Physics And 4D Visualization of Freeskiing 49:42 Inside the Milan Olympics 55:13 Highest Highs And Lowest Lows 01:00:02 Eileen Gu On Final Five Episode Resources: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/eileengu/?hl=en TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@eileen_gu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. And if you've been thinking about a wardrobe refresh, this can make it feel a little more worthwhile. You're not just letting go of clothes, you're getting more value from what you already have.

• 0:43Jay Shetty?

  Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop.

• 1:26Jay Shetty?

  AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements, and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose. This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself

• 2:11Jay Shetty?

  you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements, and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome.

• 2:52Jay Shetty?

  For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:10Jay Shetty?

  Honestly, my feed earlier this year was full of your interviews. I was like, who's this sharp, smart, eloquent, incredible athlete? And then we saw each other at the Dior show in LA, and hand on my heart, I've never done this to anyone else in the world. I came right to you and I was like, Aileen, I'm a fan, I want you on the show. And thankfully you wanted to come on too.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  I'm, first of all, so flattered to hear you say that. Secondly, the feeling's absolutely mutual. I think what you do is so incredible, and you bring this very enlightened, but also highly, like, accessible, like, high-touch, like, very applicable to real life kind of approach to so many people. And I genuinely believe you've made so many people's lives better.

• 3:52Jay Shetty?

  Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself, because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon.

• 4:15Jay Shetty?

  Aileen Gu, welcome to On Purpose.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me, Jay. I'm so happy to be here.

• 4:20Jay Shetty?

  I wanted to start off by asking you, today you're doing everything. I mean, you've graduated from one of the best schools in the world, you are one of the highest-regarded athletes in the world in your field, fashion, business. We know all of this from your resume. What's something you wish people knew about you that you couldn't read on your resume?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  I think for a long time, there was this sense of wanting to justify my academics as independent from sport. And so initially, it was in the sporting community, I would be, you know, the biggest nerd. I was always helping people with homework. I was kind of known as this, like, academic person. And then over time, as I became more well-known, I think the general assumption or presumption that maybe we hold socially, like, as a society, is that, you know, athletes maybe go to school, but they don't really go to school. Like, that kind of, just like, implication. And I think undercutting that was, was harder for me, and at the same time, really important, just because at my core, I think of myself more as an intellectual person who chose to

• 5:20Speaker 01

  do sports and to apply that kind of cerebral take in, like, an athletic context. It could have been something else versus an athlete who thinks they are smart, right? Like, I think that's like an important distinction to make. And so I think one thing for me was getting into Stanford when I was 16, and doing that before the Olympics, so that I had my, what would have been my senior year and then a gap year. So those two years to be, like, full-time, that was my first time being pro, as in, like, full-time, as an athlete. Before that, I was Mondays through Fridays in school, just totally, you know, normal. I was the first person in our high school's history to graduate early, to kind of make that situation work.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  But it was not because it was an Olympic accommodation, it was because I had done the credits and found a way to graduate early, and that was really special as well. So I think what's misunderstood is maybe that, how much, to the extent that I value education, and seeing that as like the fundamental layer and building on top of that.

• 6:21Jay Shetty?

  As a young girl, were you always athletically and academically inclined at the same time? Were they two paths that always existed?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I think yes. My mom did an incredible job just putting me into everything, like, literally everything, very obscure things, if you think about it, and like, have no interaction with one another, right? Like, I did archery, I did, like, horseback riding, I did rock climbing, and at one point, I tried swimming and tennis, but then, you know, longer term, I did soccer and basketball and cross-country, I did ballet, I did piano, I did singing lessons, like, everything. My mom would say that I was athletic. There were a couple of sports that I thought were pretty impactful, running being one of them, and I hold that to this day. And then, obviously, skiing, when I started on my ski team at seven or eight years old.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  But again, I would say that I was much more known as, like, the nerd in my class than the athlete in my class.

• 7:15Jay Shetty?

  And what would you nerd out on? Like, what were the things that you were fascinated by or drawn towards?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  In elementary and middle school, I went through a K28 all-girls school. And so every year, we would have, like, the school slash, like, Math Olympiad kind of thing. And so, like, I won that in our grade every year, and our science, you know, I did that both years that it was available, and like, won that in our school. So I think it was like math and science were definitely my big things. And then, interestingly, when I got into high school, it kind of moved more into, like, literature and philosophy. And so over time, it's been like, I would say I have an analytical lens to everything, and I take more of like a philosophical's, like, overview on top of that.

• 7:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, when I watch you do an interview, I'm like, this is a philosopher speaking with an academic, with a scholar.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 8:04Jay Shetty?

  I'm like, take me to church, Aileen. I'm like, I want to come to this motivational lecture by Aileen Gu. Like, that's how I feel watching you. I'm like, God, I'm inspired, this is incredible. And I mean it, I mean it, I'm being, I'm being silly, but I'm also being extremely genuine when I say that. Like, it's, everything that you share is poignant and powerful, I want to get into that. But before we do, can you take me back to a childhood memory that you have, that you feel defines who you are today?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  First, like, thank you so much for saying that. I'm like, deeply flattered and humbled. And I do want to say that, like, nothing that I said during the Olympics was calculated, like, I had no idea what any of the questions were going to be. So if it had been something else, I would have answered something else. It's more to my heart, and I think a big part of that was, like, having an academic foundation to be able to think to begin with. And so there's that. So like, I've never done PR training, like, I don't really know what that is, I don't really know what that would entail. I just sit and think, man, like, just a lot of thinking, and I'm sure that you're, like, so on board with that.

• 9:00Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  This is going to sound really crazy. I started journaling very early. I was probably around four, and I think I was given a journal, maybe as like a gift or something, I don't remember particularly. But I remember very distinctly, it was one of those journals that had like a little lock on it, and I really liked it because it was my first thing that I felt like was really mine. And contextualizing privacy and like, having this thing where it's like, my brain outside of my brain, and it's like only mine, and I can protect it with this little, like, lock and key mechanism. So I thought that was really special. And in the first page of the journal, I wrote along these lines. Dear journal, my name is Aileen, I'm four years old. I'm writing this now so that when you are reading this, when it is published, like, you will believe that I actually was four and wrote this.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Which

• 9:48Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  I think about now and there's just like, let's unpack this, right? A, the hubris that I had as a four year old to think that I would do something substantive. And then B, to like, write a book about it. And C, that there would be anyone in the world that would possibly care to consume this, like, writing of a four year old, right? Like, what was the assumption that I had not started, like, free skiing? I had no idea what free skiing was. I had no idea what I was gonna do in life. I didn't even know what I was gonna be journaling about. But in my head, I was like, one day I'm gonna publish this. I'm gonna do something important enough that people are gonna care to read it. And that this is going to be meaningful and impactful enough to be worth writing about. Obviously, you know, it wasn't in that. But like, that was kind of like the implication, right? Which is kind of interesting to think about as a four year old.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  So yeah, I don't really know where that confidence came from. Like, I have no idea, but yeah.

• 10:38Jay Shetty?

  And one day, you will have to publish that.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  I'm working on it now.

• 10:41Jay Shetty?

  You are? Oh, that's incredible. You'll have to come back on to talk about the book.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  We can.

• 10:45Jay Shetty?

  This episode of On Purpose is presented by Ultra Running. We all benefit from having a little more space. So do our feet. That's why Ultra Running shoes feature Ultra Fit design, giving toes more room for comfort, balance, and strength. They're perfect for running, walking, or hiking. Any pace, any level, they feel right from the first step. Go to ultrarunning.com/onpurpose and use code PURPOSE10 for 10% off. That's A-L-T-R-A running.com/onpurpose. Stay out there. That's incredible, though. I love hearing about how people start so young and those habits start so young. Have you journaled pretty much every day since that time?

• 11:29Jay Shetty?

  Or did you fall in and out of love with it?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I definitely not every day. And also, I would say my journaling habit is actually less like, dear diary, this is what I did today. I would describe it more as like an anthology of essays. So like, what is one thematic principle that like, keeps recurring? Maybe like, today or this week, or like, within a month, right? And I just keep returning. So like, a recurring theme I have is like, on womanhood. So it's like, my continual grasping with, like, my sense of femininity, like, growing into that. How do I balance, like, my masculine feminine sides? How do I inhabit my power without feeling shameful about it? And also without feeling performative about it? And that has been so complex because I was the only girl on my ski team. But also, I mentioned I went to an all-girls school.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  So Monday to Friday, I would be only around girls. And then weekends, I would be only around boys. So I was like, acutely aware of gender and gender dynamics. And also, the power that it holds when you're the only one. So if you're the only girl in a ski team, you feel like you're carrying all of womanhood on your shoulders. Cause you're the only one who's representing. And so if you're good, then you're dispelling all of these myths. But if you're bad, then you're corroborating them. And so suddenly, like, I'm the N of one sample that is, like, upholding all of these stereotypes. So I was like, super aware of that when I was seven or eight. And so over time, you know, with introducing fashion, with all of these other kind of like, elements into my life, I've grown a lot. But I would say I'm still working on it.

• 12:58Jay Shetty?

  That's fascinating. I love that you have a space that is beyond the public eye, that's private to you with that lock and key. That allows you to have these exchanges with yourself, around your philosophy on life and how you approach it. Even what you were just saying now, in knowing how your masculine feminine fits. What have been your latest reflections on your masculinity and femininity? And where they fit into your life and where you see them being expressed?

• 13:24Speaker 01

  So I started working with Dior.

• 13:26Jay Shetty?

  Congratulations. We love Jonathan Anderson.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Thank you, he's amazing. And you know, I think he plays with it so interestingly because if you think about like, a Dior face, it's very, it's like, fresh, it's young. But the outfit is not reductive in that sense, right? It's not something that's one dimensional of like, here is a caricature of like, a teenage girl and we're gonna like, slap it on a grown woman. It doesn't feel like that at all. There's kind of this like, modern strength slash, like, the silhouetting is a lot more inclusive. And there's almost like a tomboyish style within, like, a very flowy feminine fabric or print. And so that kind of like, comparison between cut and style. When you're shooting an editorial, for example, how do you pose to bring that out?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  How do you work with, you know, shapes and lighting and expression and different hair and makeup? And a different look to kind of like, embody a very multi-dimensional sense of femininity? It's not like femininity is the color pink and we all smile and we all wear this haircut. And we all, you know, do X, Y, Z, and that's what being a woman is. It's like, understanding it in all its multi-dimensional nuance. So that was like, something that I did maybe two days ago and I was thinking about recently.

• 14:36Jay Shetty?

  And you're an all Dior today.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 14:37Jay Shetty?

  We love it, yeah. On brand. You started training when you were seven or eight, you said?

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:42Jay Shetty?

  What does training for being a free skier look like at seven to eight? Talk to me about the regime, the discipline, the diet. What are you having to do at that age to build this phenomenal skillset you have today?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Jay, I think you're giving me a little too much credit.

• 14:55Jay Shetty?

  What do you mean?

• 14:56Speaker 01

  I mean, it was a ski team that occurred on weekends, North Star at Tahoe. I think there was maybe like, a couple weekday options for people who were local. But since I went to school in San Francisco, what would usually happen would be Monday to Friday in school, normally. And then on Friday after school, my mom would pick me up, drive the four hours to get to Tahoe. During which I would, you know, when I was younger, sleep. And then as I got older, you know, do homework, eat, prep, do whatever I need to do. Saturday morning, I would wake up. And this is actually an important distinction. A lot of people think my mom is a tiger mom. She's totally not. Her number one thing was always sleep. So I was always the last person to get to ski team. Like, I was always the last person because my, we would get there so late after school and I'd be the only one driving from San Francisco.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  And so she would let me sleep until I woke up naturally. You know, usually, I would not wake up before eight. And I would go skiing maybe from like, nine, nine thirty until, ski team would end at two thirty. And then my mom and I would probably ski another hour just to take advantage. You know, we're already in Tahoe. But when I was training, it was so much fun. It was so fun. And I think that was the most important factor and still is to this day. I mentioned I was the only girl on my ski team, but beyond that, skiing was the great equalizer, right? Anybody who's a human knows what it feels like when you are terrified, right? And that is not a gender divided thing. And you know how elated you feel.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  When you're asking your body to do something, it's never done before. And like, that kind of very like, human and very saturated kind of like, emotion, just makes you bond with the people that you're experiencing with that much more. And so of course, there'd be little challenges. You know, I remember my coach would be like, whoever can slide this rail the longest gets a dollar or a sticker or a gummy bear. And it just encouraged this really healthy sportsmanship and really healthy competition. And you know, this was pre puberty, so I was definitely one of the best, if not the best, on the team. And there were several others and you know, we would be jostling for that position. And like, maybe one day, someone learns a new trick. And I remember so distinctly, my first time sliding a rail. So there's like, boxes in the train park and then rails are like the, you know, like a handrail.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  And so this one, I remember so vividly. It was my entire team lined up next to the rail. And I was the first person on our team to slide the rail. And I remember I, you know, everyone's lined up, they're watching, you know, I was keyed up. I do it and it's just like, this chorus of, you know, seven, eight year old boys like, wow, amazing. And of course, you know, by the end of the day, every single person slid the rail. But that was just this sense of like, pure joy. And you're really sharing it with people that you form lifelong bonds with and who I'm still very close with to this day. Even though the others didn't go on to become professional skiers, we still just will always share that bond and that's really special.

• 17:45Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. You speak about your mom so beautifully. Of course, I met her at the Dior show, she's with us here today.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:51Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about how much you learned from your mom and your grandma that was beyond just this incredible dedication she had to you. This ability to want you to sleep, but then driving you four hours, like, that level of devotion to you and wanting you to have this full, rich life. What were the lessons that we may not see through that, that you've experienced and feel from your mother and grandma?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  If I were to distill it, I would say my grandma was the dreamer. She is the most dauntless, just go-getter optimist that I've ever met in my entire life. When she was my age, she was an electrical engineer at one of the largest copper mines in China. At twenty-one, which is crazy. I'm twenty-two now. And that was in her generation, in China, as a woman. So it's like, oh, I talk about, you know, being a woman in a male-dominated sport. She was in the mines, overseeing men in the mines at twenty-one. Like, that's obscene. Like, I can't even imagine, right? And not once has she ever had a victim mentality. Not once has she ever thought, oh, it was so difficult, oh, I was the only woman. She was like, of course, you think they could keep up?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Of course I was the only one who could do it. Like, why would they, you know, be able to do that? Like, I need to... And she had older brothers and she would always say how she was keeping them in line and like, playing. So there was never a sense of like, oppression for her. Even if objectively, the circumstances she grew up in were very difficult. She lost her mother at a very young age. And so, losing that kind of like, female force in her life, I just can't even imagine. And yet, she just went on to become this like, fierce, fierce woman. And for that, I will always, always admire her.

• 19:31Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  She definitely passed that on to my mom. My mom, I would say, is the efficiency queen. So she gets things done. In modern speak, in like, Silicon Valley speak, she's an operator. She is the one who will ask, okay, how? And so she will not do unnecessary suffering. She will not work for the sake of working. She will do the shortest path and the most efficient to do something with high quality and uncompromising results and attention to detail. So, anything she produces is the highest quality. But she is not the one who's gonna stay up late all night to do it. She's not the one who's going to suffer unnecessarily. And so, between the two of them, I think my grandma will like, set the stage and set the direction.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  And my mom gave me kind of, the toolkit, if you will, to then go on and achieve it. So in that way, I would feel like the two of them almost like, co-parented slash like, formed the basis for like, these two really complimentary parts of me.

• 20:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you've got the vision and the tools.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, the dreams and the practices.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 20:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's pretty spectacular.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:36Jay Shetty?

  It's incredible. I mean, when I'm hearing about your grandma, I'm like, wow, the fact that she was doing that at twenty-one, in her generation, in China, is unbelievable. I know a lot of people look at you today and they're like, I failed at life, I'm really behind. Eileen Gu has achieved everything in the world.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  That's how I feel about my grandma.

• 20:52Jay Shetty?

  Right, and I can hear that now.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 20:54Jay Shetty?

  If someone was listening to us right now and they're thinking... Jay, Eileen, I feel behind.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:00Jay Shetty?

  I feel stuck. I'm twenty-two years old, I'm twenty-five. I haven't achieved anything yet. I don't know who I am. What would you say to them?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I, I feel the same way. Absolutely. And I think the reason for that is, A, hedonic treadmill theory, generally speaking, right? And so the idea being you acclimate so quickly to your circumstances that it's no longer objective. It's not like, oh, I reach a certain benchmark and I will be happy. It's the faster you run, the faster it moves and you just keep going and going and going. Um, and so relatively, you can feel exactly the same as anybody in your peer group, irrespective of these kind of like objective goals and achievements. And so I would say, I think this is the hallmark of our age. Like, I think being in your early twenties, mid twenties, late twenties, this is like a point in your life where it's really important to feel that way. And I almost think of that as like activation energy.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  I mean, generally in chemistry, it's like you can't perform a reaction without catali- like a catalyst. Like, you need some kind of energy either within the system or externally introduced to create it. And so that dynamism, and maybe we kind of create that and like feel it's like discomfort. But the fact of the matter is it's energy that doesn't know where to go. And so that's a neutral thing. It's more about redirecting it instead of like sitting with this golf ball or butterfly or whatever you wanna kind of think about it as like bouncing inside of you, feeling really uncomfortable. It's more about doing the self-work to know where that energy goes. But the fact that you have it as a hallmark of being young is so beautiful.

• 22:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's almost like you're saying that we fight that limerence and we almost want it to go away.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:36Jay Shetty?

  Rather than what I'm hearing you say is actually if you channel it, if you redirect it, if you put it forward, then actually that's gonna propel you.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:43Jay Shetty?

  That's gonna make the difference.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  I think so. But knowing what direction to take is so much harder than people think. And my mom and I talk about this all the time, where I think hard work, super important, but overpraised. Direction, underrated. And so we think about this as like, who's working the hardest? Who's doing the most? But if you're punching a wall, who's punching the wall the hardest? That's not helpful. Like, who's getting to the destination? If you can walk around a column, maybe it's easier than punching the wall. So it's not necessarily about doing the most. What's more important is the direction. And so I think having that activation energy is super important. What's more important, though, at our age, is taking the time to figure out the direction. And that's worth the time that it takes to explore.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  And I'm saying this as if I'm some kind of like sage entity. I'm like, oh, I've been through it. I crash out about this like every night, every night. I'm like, oh, my God, what am I gonna do? Like, I'm so behind. I feel like I'm not living up to my potential. I have so many ideas and so many things to do and I'm not materializing any of them. I feel like I'm, you know, losing time by the day and like totally paralyzed. And I think that's just like a really relatable feeling. A lot of my friends are graduating, you know, my entire class with me. Um, and I think that's a pretty shared sentiment for everybody.

• 24:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're so right. It is a generational thing and it's an age thing where you're in that space where it's almost like up until twenty-two, most of your life is mapped out for you. You know, you go from seventh grade to eighth grade, you go to college.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:13Jay Shetty?

  You get a degree and then all of a sudden, now you actually have to make choices that don't have a timeline.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  I think you're so right about that. And in school, success is, the heuristics are so clearly defined for you. Like, the metrics of success are there. You have a rubric. You wanna get to a hundred, you know? Getting an A+ is good and everybody wants to get there. Life is so much more complex.

• 24:34Jay Shetty?

  So is it.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  And you don't know what your success is. And success looks so different for so many different people. And there are a lot of people who are really wealthy and really unhappy. And there are a lot of people who, in that position, would feel super unsuccessful. And there are others who would feel extremely successful. And so it is so personal. And so doing the self-work to discover what success is, is a totally new thing once you leave school.

• 24:56Jay Shetty?

  You're spot on. The grading system is already decided.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:01Jay Shetty?

  When you're at school.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:02Jay Shetty?

  And as soon as you leave, there is no grading system because now it's all up to you. Who, who's your athletic sponsor, like, when you're competing?

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Anta.

• 25:09Jay Shetty?

  Anta, okay, yeah, cuz I was just thinking what you just said. Hard work, overpraised.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Direction.

• 25:15Jay Shetty?

  Direction underrated.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:17Jay Shetty?

  Like, that's world-class. I love that.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, thank you.

• 25:19Jay Shetty?

  That's an ad right there. I'm like, that's, that's brilliant. And it's so true. It's so true because we get momentum from direction, not hard work.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:28Jay Shetty?

  Momentum comes because you know the direction you're moving in and then it snowballs.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Exactly, yes.

• 25:35Jay Shetty?

  You can push a rock up a hill as hard as you want and you won't gather momentum because the direction's wrong.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  But maybe you can imagine him happy.

• 25:43Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Sisyphus reference.

• 25:44Jay Shetty?

  There you go, yeah. Talk to me about how you look for direction at your age, with the success you've had, with the multiple opportunities. Now you're in a position where opportunities are flying towards you. You can go anywhere, do anything, be on any red carpet, interviewed anywhere. How do you choose? How do you find your direction when you have unlimited opportunities, unlimited ideas, but at the same time, you're this thoughtful, pensive, introspective human?

• 26:12Speaker 01

  A lot of people don't know this, but I'm very introverted. And so the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that it's actually really important for me to have a little bit of personal space and time because there's kind of two categories here. One is my career, which is already somewhat developed. And so when I'm doing that, a lot of it is outward-facing, which means I've already kind of like done the work to get here. And now it's like I am creating something out of it. Whereas the other thing is me being a twenty-two-year-old and I need to build. So I, what's important is I cannot stagnate in the energy kind of like dissipation phase because otherwise I feel like I'm just going to freeze at the age that I became successful. And that's just gonna stagnate forever.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Whereas I also need to realize that I'm this like independent entity who is twenty-two, which means I need to take the time to learn. I need to take the time to fail. And I need to have these experiences that maybe you don't, you can't really justify with like opportunity cost. But like, it's important to travel. It's important to try a new hobby. It's important to make a new friend. It's important to say yes to something that you didn't think you would have fun doing. I really do try to value that. So as far as like knowing what's important within work, that's very easy for me to decide. I have very clear boundaries. I only do things that I feel align with me, my values. What's great about my brand is that it's actually just my values and what I like to do and who I am. So there's no kind of like asymmetry there. But it's like, I care about women in sports.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  I care about encouraging young people to do balanced sports and academics as well. I care about uplifting free skiing globally. And I care about cultural exchange. So like, those are generally things that thematically will speak to me. I also think that I care a lot about masculine feminine balance. Um, I care about artistry, I care about creativity. So that's kind of where the fashion side comes in. And generally, that's how I will choose events. Those values guide me and I feel they have not really led me astray. Within the personal side, it's so nebulous. That's why I don't know. Like, when you're asking like, what advice would I give? Pretty much all I can say is like, yeah, I'm also in the cloud. I have no idea what I'm doing. My only thing is like, if you flip a coin a hundred times,

• 28:25Speaker 01

  it'll land on heads more than if you flip it five times, just by virtue of how many times you flip the coin. And so the idea being just expose myself to as many things as possible and hopefully like trust the model on its training data. Not to be like super Silicon Valley on this, but um, every experience you have is just informing you. And like, it's like training your gut feeling and I really do believe in that.

• 28:48Jay Shetty?

  I love how your life really mirrors a belief that I have, which is that life is more about collecting and connecting things than it is about doing or being anything.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 29:03Jay Shetty?

  And I feel like when I hear you speak, you're collecting things from Silicon Valley, you're collecting things from fashion, you've collected experiences from academia, you've collected things from sport, and then you've just connected all of these things. And that's who you are.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:16Jay Shetty?

  Is you're a collection and connection of all these ideas, philosophies, beliefs, interests, values, as opposed to like, oh, I'm an athlete or I'm a, you know, whatever this box is. I just, I love that your generation has you to look up to, to go, oh, that's what I have to do. I can actually be all these different things at the same time. And I don't have to choose and I don't have to have the tension of fighting between them.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:38Jay Shetty?

  You talk about your thoughts creating your reality. When I first saw one of your clips, that really resonated with me and I was like, who is this person at twenty-two talking about the power of thought? Talk to me about how that became a practice and developing that mindset became powerful for you at such a young age and how it's been, what has allowed you to unlock everything that's come your way?

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Wow, you're really good. The way you talked about the pattern recognition is like really sitting with me. I feel like I'm gonna marinate on that further in my own time.

• 30:10Jay Shetty?

  And you're gonna have to do that and then tell me what you come up with.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll chat. Well, I will preface this by saying I'm an only child. And I actually think that was pretty important because it meant that I, my mom was an immigrant. And so she talks about this all the time where she didn't go to high school in the US. So when I came home, you know, being bullied in high school, she didn't really know what to do. Because she didn't really have this like American high school situation. And that's totally new. She didn't go to undergrad in the US. And so when I was taking the SAT, she didn't really know what to do in that situation. And what's really amazing about my mom and I's relationship is that we're so honest with each other and we're so collaborative. And when one of us doesn't know, we don't pretend that we do.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  And there's this kind of like humble and almost like student mentality where it's like, I don't know, but I'll learn. And so I think I picked that up where I was like, okay, not everyone has all the answers. And I think as a young person, the sooner you learn that, the better. Where like, nobody really knows what they're doing. And the sooner you take your fate and agency of learning into your own hands, the better. And it's not about becoming an expert. It's about knowing that you have the power to learn and that is your greatest superpower. There's a reason why kids learning languages at a young age is so different from adults learning the same language. Kids just learn so well. And so because I came to the understanding that learning was my superpower very early, I feel like I employed that with kind of like high agency over time.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And that's where I was like, wait, I can just, not like self-parent, but I did read like parenting manuals.

• 31:44Jay Shetty?

  You did? At what age?

• 31:45Speaker 01

  It's like 12, 13.

• 31:46Jay Shetty?

  For yourself?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just to see what was going on. Like I was just curious because my mom had mentioned, because obviously I'm her only child. So she was like, oh, I raised you by the book. Like when you were born, I read all the like nutrition and like feeding everything. And I did everything to a T and you turned out pretty well, like health wise, right? And she also has another saying where she said, up until 13, it's me as like the parent. Contributing genetics is like the big thing. But then beyond that, just like, you know, health, safety, general like values, all of that until you're 13. But after you're 13, so much of it is like the people who you surround yourself with and your self-learning. And so for me, I was like, wow, you know, I'm 12, 13, so should probably get on that, you know? So maybe I'll also read the parenting manuals. She said it was pretty good.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  So like, I'll just take a look. They were like an easy read.

• 32:35Jay Shetty?

  What did you do?

• 32:36Speaker 01

  It was a page turner, you know?

• 32:37Jay Shetty?

  What did you learn? Tell us.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  This is crazy.

• 32:38Jay Shetty?

  Tell us how to parent ourselves.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  It was like, here's how to like parent your pre-teen. Like when they're being, you know, combative and like when to leave them to have space and when to initiate a conversation, when to let them fail, these kinds of things. How to have the puberty talk. I was reading that. I was super locked in. And then I feel like what was great about that is my mom and I's communication style that evolved. Because I could sit down and be like, hey, I think we should discuss this thing about my upbringing.

• 33:06Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  It's kind of like a formalized setting. And for that reason, it's just been like the most amazing teamwork and collaboration. And I admire her. I idolize her. She's totally my hero. In a lot of ways, we are both the same person and different sides of the same coin. We are inextricably connected and we're both really invested in me. And there's something so special about that, just like unbreakable trust to have. And I totally understand that not everybody has that relationship with their family. And I think my, truly my greatest blessing is that I do.

• 33:38Jay Shetty?

  I love hearing that because I think there's such a power in allowing a 13-year-old to have the opportunity to even do that. So it's one thing that you even opened yourself up to that. Second of all, your mom was game to actually collaborate with you.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  She was just like, what?

• 33:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, it's the most.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  She immigrated from China. She's like, we don't like, this is not something we've ever done. But it's cool because it also makes you realize your parent is a person.

• 34:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  And like as a kid, you don't really think that. You're like, oh, this is mom. Like the entity is mom. But no, she's a person and she's a woman and she has friends and she has feelings and she's stressed because it's her first time raising a kid. And so the sooner you realize that she's a person with her own thoughts and needs and imperfections and flaws, and also points that are so admirable and worthy of.

• 34:29Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 35:13Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision-making and that extends to the practical stuff too. Like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

• 35:56Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible. It's built to last and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus you can shop with Wayfair verified where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality. So you can shop with more confidence.

• 36:38Jay Shetty?

  And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients.

• 37:23Jay Shetty?

  They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more. So you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in store or online.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Copying, the better.

• 37:35Jay Shetty?

  What are your thoughts now? Before you start skiing, before you're competing? Like what are the thoughts that you program into your mind?

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Contest mode? Oh my gosh. I'm extremely psychological. I.

• 37:49Jay Shetty?

  I want to know everything.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  I have a saying where I say, I train like I've never won and I compete like I've never lost.

• 37:57Jay Shetty?

  Say that again. That is so good.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  I train like I've never won and I compete like I've never lost. And that's important because A, I find it's difficult to win, but it's way harder to stay there. And for me, you know, now through two Olympic cycles and also so much happens between age 18 and 22, like staying in peak form during that period of your life, specifically as a woman, is very, very difficult. From my last Olympics to now, I went through all of college. Like I was a high school grad and now I'm a college grad and that's just two different people. So that's one. The second thing is it keeps you hungry and that's what allows you to perform over time. The third thing is in order to be a winner, you have to have this like insatiable,

• 38:41Speaker 01

  almost like obsessive, religious, just like all in mentality when you compete. But because it is so intense, you cannot sustain it always. Because that's what creates really dangerous egos. It's what creates the like hubris and overconfidence and complacency that undermines good training. Because you have to be very critical of your own training. For me, I see only my mistakes when I'm training. I can never do anything right. Like every single thing, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm two degrees off on that. Oh, I was like a second early. Oh, look at my upper body. I was like three degrees, you know, whatever. That's all I think. But when I'm competing, you need to make the switch. And I'm like, I am the best person who has ever stepped foot here. Nobody's even going to touch me. Everyone's competing for a second. Doesn't matter. That's it.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  But what's so important is to separate that. I would say it's like 95% the former and 5% the latter. And creating that really conscious distinction is what protects me from going absolutely insane. I'm also not that competitive in my daily life. I'm like a normal amount of competitive, right? But like, you can imagine like, oh, you're so competitive when you ski. Are you not like insufferable with lawn games or whatever, you know? Like, no, I'm not. That would make me super annoying to be around and I'm not. It's only when I compete, I'm like, okay, alter ego. Go time.

• 39:57Jay Shetty?

  How did you discover that balance? What you just spoke about feels like something an athlete figures out after 25 years of competing, where they realize they've carried this aggressive competitive mentality and critical mentality far too much into every area of their life, where their family feels it, their partner feels if they're married or dating or whatever. Whereas you've realized this early in your career. How did you discover that you need to train like you've never won and compete like you've never lost? Like, where, how did you discover that?

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Well, for one, my mom just works so, like, the way she instilled work ethic in me is just unparalleled. So I will never be afraid to work harder than other people if I know my direction is correct. And so much of the direction is then cerebral. Maybe because I've gone to school, I have a different perspective on psychology, or I'm seeing the physics of a trick in a different way. So I think, A, the underpinning is very academic. Um, and I think that's definitely a differentiating factor for me.

• 40:59Jay Shetty?

  I agree, yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  B, I think then applying the work ethic layer on top of that totally supercharges the whole thing. That's like the direction, you know, momentum thing we were talking about. And then, C, I think I just am so introspective. I just, man, I just sit and think. Like, I just think about my brain all the time, and I think about who I am and the direction I'm moving in, and I'm self-assessing, and I'm, you know, error correcting, and I'm criticizing all the time. I am my own greatest project. There is no project in my life that I will ever build that is as time-consuming as living in my body every single day. And so why am I not treating, why am I not like the founder of my own self, right? Like, creating that, um, like obsessive mentality around it?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  You know, the only way other people can beat you is if they are really good at doing themself. And so for me, I just have to be the very best version of myself. So I picked all of the best qualities or things that I think make me unique, and then just put them together in this, like, unique pattern matching type style.

• 42:02Jay Shetty?

  I believe you, and at the same time, I feel you hold yourself gracefully, too. Like, talk to me about that. Is it, you are hypocritical, you are error correcting, you are fixing yourself, but I don't feel like it sounds like you beat yourself up?

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 42:18Jay Shetty?

  You know what I mean? Like, and talk to me about that, because I think that athletes, but even all of us, like, non-athletes, I think we don't know the balance. I think a lot of people who are listening and watching right now struggle between trying to push themselves to be better and then pushing themselves so hard they break.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:34Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about how you hold those two things together in order to incrementally improve and become better every day, and at the same time, not burn yourself out or beat yourself up.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  You are not your craft. And I think that distinction is so important, because I can beat my craft to death and I will never die. And so the point that I'm trying to make there is like, real resilience is being able to take constructive criticism without the emotions. And so it's the sense of like, how quickly can I actually implement usable material instead of spending that energy to metabolize something that made my ego bruise? You'll laugh at this. I have a practice that I do with my friends called the CCC. It's called the constructive criticism circle. And I think the greatest act of love that you can give anybody is to give them constructive criticism, if you love them and you know them well enough to give meaningful advice. Because anybody in the world can be like, Jay, I love your jacket, like, I love, you're so smart, you're so interesting.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  That's not that difficult, right? Anybody can say that. What's more difficult is for me to know you well enough, to know what your goals are, what your shortcomings are, and to then help guide you and kind of like match those points in a way that you yourself didn't even see or know or are not ready to hear. Like, that is so much more meaningful and so much more powerful. It is like the deepest act of service I could possibly imagine. And it's like, you can imagine this was probably like not the most popular idea when I was like, hey, guys, it's like Friday night, let's all sit in a circle and like criticize each other. And they're like, what? This sounds like a terrible idea. And I was like, no, no, like, obviously, the goal is not to insult another person.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  It's just like, hey, I know your goal is music. You're really passionate about this. You're really interested in it. But you keep saying you're gonna like put stuff out on TikTok, you're gonna do like whatever to like reach people, but you're not very consistent with it, and you, you're not holding yourself to that standard, and I, I know that you could, you know, something like that. Or, hey, the other week, when you said this thing to this other person, it wasn't even to me, that, I think the other person kind of like bristled a little, and you, maybe you could have had a nicer tone of voice, and you're like, huh, I didn't even know. There's so many things, big and small, that you genuinely don't even know, and that just cuts the work. It cuts the work if people can just tell you, and you can be like, wow, okay, I'm just gonna change it. And it's not about you. It's not like, oh, my ego's gonna be hurt.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  When I'm talking about like correcting a trick, I'm not like, oh, no, my double cork is bad, I'm stupid, right? I'm like, oh, no, my double cork is bad. It's really bad. Like, that's it. That's the end of the sentence. There's no more extrapolation. There's no more like, and this is what it says about me as a human? It's like, I'm rushing the trick, this is what I'm doing wrong, I'm not committing at this point, I'm not truly believing, maybe like, it's not penetrating my like subconscious layer, whatever. That is not who I am. And so, again, this is another thing that I see in like really successful people or athletes, where it's like really hard to distinguish those two things. So it's like, if your career is going really well, you feel like you're really great. If your career is not going well, you feel like a failure. And for me, those are pretty separate things.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Like, I am me, and my career is me. And also, that means when people say, oh, Eileen, you're so good at skiing, I don't translate that to like, oh, Eileen, you are so good. And so I don't really feel like I am all that, even if I think that my skiing is all that.

• 45:51Jay Shetty?

  I love that answer, and what's gonna blow your mind is, I didn't have a cool name like CCC for it, but I made my friends do exactly the same thing a few years back.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Shut up, shut up.

• 46:01Jay Shetty?

  But here was my version. So what I said to them was, we've got to say to everyone in the room, this is my closest group of friends.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Of course, you can only do it with your closest.

• 46:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, totally. So it's my closest group of friends from London that I grew up with. I said, we have to say to each other's face, the thing we all say behind each other's back. So if me and you were together and we're talking about our other friend, and we'd be like, oh, he's really ambitious, but you know, we know he's not putting in enough work.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:26Jay Shetty?

  We actually have to say that to him right now.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 46:28Jay Shetty?

  And so that was what I made me and my friends do on a Friday night. And it was unbelievable.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 46:34Jay Shetty?

  And I could see who was scared by it, who was nervous about it, who really owned it, who opened up and had the humility and put their ego aside on both ends, because you also have to have vulnerability to tell someone the truth, and you've got to be humble enough to take it yourself. And then you start seeing the exchange make sense. When everyone has permission, it was, so it's, when you started to say that, I was like, I need to steal your name, it's better, but, uh, I didn't have that for it.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  That is unbelievable.

• 46:59Jay Shetty?

  But I just felt it. I was like, we actually can't go to the next level in our relationship if we don't do this.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:03Jay Shetty?

  We all think we're close, we all pretend like we're close, but this is the test of actual intimacy, vulnerability, and friendship after 20 years, that I've been friends with some of these guys. So I'm totally aligned with it.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  That is incredible.

• 47:18Jay Shetty?

  Well, I mean, you, you came up with it.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  But I've just never like, that's insane. I'm like, wow.

• 47:24Jay Shetty?

  But I agree with you. It's the only way of showing real care and depth in a relationship.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  I love the way you framed it, too. Because also then there's like a group aspect to it. I think it's harder if it's like one person, like put them on the spot, and then there's like kind of responsibility there. This is just like truly fostering like group connections, um, and, and growth. That's so special. It's a much more sensitive way of doing that. I might steal it.

• 47:45Jay Shetty?

  Yours is, yours is better named, it's smart. I like, anyway, anyway. I wanted to ask you, you've, you've said before, evidence over affirmation. Explain that to me.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  I'm very realist, um, and I think I definitely get that from my mom. But it was the sense of like, you wanna shoot for the moon? Okay, how do you get there? Who's gonna build the rocket ship? How are you going to design it? Who's gonna power it? Like, how are you going to get there, right? And so the sense of like, I can't convince myself that I'm going to do a backflip. You have to really know how to do it, even if it's just conceptually. Because what's important is like, technically, every time I learn a new trick, I'm doing something that I've never done before. So there is that kind of like final leap. But most of the work, the basis, the bulk of it, needs to be ready so that you have that 5%. It's, a, a lot of people talk about like you make your own luck, and it, I think it's

• 48:34Speaker 01

  in the same vein, where like, you can only succeed insofar as you are prepared, and you're kind of setting your own ceiling there with the base that you have accumulated. And so, yeah, I, I would say I ask 5%, um, the last 5%, but I feel good in the 95. And skiing, because it's just so visceral and literal, where it's like, the difference between success and failure is like quite literally broken bones and like top of the podium, right? And so it is so clearly defined, and the difference in that is sometimes just this sense of like subconscious buy-in. Do I feel like I had the reps? Do I genuinely believe to my core? And so the top layer, I think, is the conscious thing. Anybody can convince themselves like, okay, I'm gonna jump. That's easy.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  But like, the subconscious thing of like buying in all the way down to actually commit the action, that is the true test of trust. And you can only build trust over repetition and over practice and true preparation.

• 49:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're saying that you can almost feel it.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:32Jay Shetty?

  That subconscious in your body, your mind, your heart, your soul.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:36Jay Shetty?

  Whether you've actually bought into it, rather than just repeating something that may make you feel better in the moment before you go out there, but everything about your body knows it's false and is rejecting that idea.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. And because it's so unnatural already, and because it all happens so fast, like, in skiing, the takeoff is like point one seconds, but the angle of your body and the torque and the timing determines everything. And so if your timing is slightly off because you're nervous and you rush a trick, You can do the same thing, but you just rush it a little because, literally just because you're nervous and it's game over. And so of course you're going to be nervous, but it's like controlling the degree. And so that's what I'm talking about with the buy in. It literally happens so quickly that it's too fast for you to make the decision consciously. At the end of the day, the results will tell you what you really believe.

• 50:26Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Some of life's best moments happen because nothing went wrong. The drive home, the conversation that continues, the plans that stay exactly as planned. That's the feeling of safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged with your drive. So you can feel confident on the road. That's why Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, they've won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus Awards than any other car brand. Visit www.ihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't.

• 51:11Jay Shetty?

  Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. Talk to me a bit more about the technicalities of free skiing because I feel I've been fortunate enough to sit down with Novak and talk about tennis and talk to Lewis Hamilton and Charles Leclerc about F1 and hearing about how much drivers lose weight and like how much their weight impacts the movement of the car and how fast they can move. I've never interviewed someone who's a freeskier before. Talk to me about that because as you started talking about the angle and the mechanics, I'm starting to think, wow, the room for error is tiny.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Tiny.

• 51:44Jay Shetty?

  And like you just said, if you go too early or too late, talk to me a bit more about that of something as a complete novice

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:50Jay Shetty?

  to this world I would be unaware of so that we can really appreciate what's happening out there. Because I think we watch you and I've watched tapes of you and I'm like, how does she just do that? That's incredible. But you almost undervalue, because we're uneducated, the physics behind it and the amount of analytics behind pulling something like that off.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Totally. Couple of things. One, the biggest saying you will hear in free skiing is patient on the takeoff. And it's like the most frustrating thing to hear because it's so obvious. And it's like a just do it sort of thing. But the reason why it's so frustrating is that because it's not conscious and it happens so quickly, a lot of it is like you're at the top and you're like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. And at the very last thing, it's like, oh no, I bailed. Like I didn't do it. And there's this almost sense of betrayal that happens in that moment because you're like, I swear, like, why is my body betraying me? And so so much of it is identifying the kinds of fear that you have. For me, I can like logic my way into things because I can understand like what different kinds of fear feel like in my body.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  And so discerning that often is the difference between injury and success. As far as mechanics go, this is kind of interesting because if you think about gymnastics, the body type is very different than my body type. And so if you think about like the physics of rotation, when you're moving that quickly and your center of gravity is much longer and higher and your limbs are a lot more dispersed, it means that the timing is even more precise and it's even harder to kind of grasp. It's just like, there's so much of you in the air. On top of that, it's an outdoor sport. So like wind impacts you more and like weather and like just all of these little things. And so for me, I felt like because I'm so much taller than most of my competitors,

• 53:37Speaker 01

  I had to kind of be so hyper aware of these factors that were initially working against me. But then if you think about physics and you think about like a whip, the longer the whip is, the more force is generated at the very tip. So if I can get the timing right, technically I can generate more force. It's just harder to do it. So I just have to be so precise. And I was very aware about that from the beginning.

• 54:03Jay Shetty?

  And how are you keeping time? Is it something you're counting in your mind? Is it a feeling in your body? Like where's time because you can't see anything?

• 54:09Speaker 01

  I visualize a lot. And when I visualize, I visualize in four angles or like dimensions. I will do follow cam. I will do deck angle. I will do my POV and then top angle. Then I will do fast motion and slow motion. And get this, I will do all black proprioception. So it's like, I will visualize what the G forces feel on my body, pulling apart at certain points in the air. And that will help with my timing and grounding because the first time you do a trick, you can't see anything just visually, right? So you really have to trust. That's another thing you have to trust. When you can't see anything, you're totally blind. You have to trust in this, your body's going to do something, but it hasn't even done it before also. So like, how can you trust that, right? So there's something kind of counterintuitive about that.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  And so the faster you can reconcile that, that's what makes a trick safe. So I do so much visualization. I just, I just think.

• 55:00Jay Shetty?

  And that visualization is based on you watching footage of yourself.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Watching footage of myself.

• 55:05Jay Shetty?

  To know what the different angles and cams look like, those four that you experienced.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Yes. And what's interesting also is sometimes I'm the first woman to ever do a trick. And so that adds complexity also because then I'm watching videos of men. And of course there's going to be differences in those mechanics too. And so I have to be noticing what points I can kind of take and what I have to innovate almost on my own, just given my own, you know, phenotypes there.

• 55:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  So there's kind of like intricacy there. I would say also, we do have like foam pits, we have airbags. So like that helps a lot, but really doing something on snow for the first time, there's something. I mean, yeah, like, when is the last time you felt like genuine fear? And I think a lot of people would struggle to think of the last time. But in skiing, it's like every day, literally every day.

• 55:53Jay Shetty?

  I'm so glad to ask that question and thank you for taking us into your mind. I want to take you back to the moment you won your gold medal at the Milan Olympics. And that was such an incredible moment. Walk me through the euphoria you felt. You're just talking about the fear you feel, the trust you have to have, the looking at it from four angles, the surrender in that moment. Talk to me about how that felt.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  I think it's really important to contextualize that moment, actually. So in free skiing, there are three disciplines, halfpipe, slopestyle and big air. I'm the only woman who competes in all three. What's particular about that is no other woman who competes in halfpipe at this Olympics competed in any other event. So it's like one event versus three events. And if each event is a week long, you're skiing every day, the accumulated fatigue, the just emotional, you're literally having like the highest highs and the lowest lows of your life every day for two weeks. And then sometimes it's at night, sometimes it's in the morning. You're in Italy, like everything is kind of just different and foreign and you're managing so much load. The last part is the Olympics actually scheduled my trainings overlapping

• 56:57Speaker 01

  because they thought that it wasn't possible essentially to do all three events. And so I tried to petition it. Obviously it didn't work. So since I made finals and actually ended up meddling in big air, which is the event before, I actually missed out on a training in halfpipe. And there's only three. And then very lastly, it supposedly never snows in this valley. But of course, if you want it to snow, schedule the Olympics, right? So it was scheduled for night originally. And so you can imagine your adrenaline's super high all day. You're like, okay, this is like the culmination. I'm gathering all of my strength, all of my energy. I've competed five times already, qualies and finals for the other two events and the qualifiers. Last minute, like an hour before training starts for the contest, they say, okay, we're canceling it, like it's moving to another day.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  And what's even crazier is they said, if we can't do it, we're just going to take qualifier results. And I had fallen in qualifiers. I got fifth. I was qualifying in fifth place. I've never done that before. I like almost always qualify in the top one or two. And so I was just like losing my mind because I was already so tired that I was like, just make finals, just make finals, like land something and make finals. And I did, but I was in fifth. And so I was just, you can imagine crashing out all night. And then the next morning, like, thank goodness it went ahead. So I'm going into this contest very frazzled. Like I am not in peak form. I am just really holding on by a thread. And this has never happened before in other contests, but for some reason at the Olympics, I fell on my first run in every single contest. I don't know what the reason was.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  I genuinely have this theory that like I needed to like wake up. And there's something so otherworldly and surreal about being at the Olympics that I needed something so harsh that my body to be like, you're actually here, like wake up, lock in, to be like, okay, I'm here and like jolt me into reality. I have no idea what that situation was. That's what I've kind of decided was the case. So needless to say, I fall on my first run. And now I'm in last. And this is supposed to be like my, you know, best event. I haven't lost a final in this event in seven years. So there's four events. There's men's and women's ski and snowboard. So four events total. The favorites for the other three, none of them won. And so of course I'm going into the last event. I'm like, okay, great. This is not boding well for me.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  And so there was just so much doubt and just even if I was so prepared, I've never felt dealt like that before. And I just remember at the top being like, please, please, like just get the feeling, get the feeling, because I talked about like having that switch and I just wasn't getting it. I was like, I don't know where I am, like where she is, like the competitor. Like, I don't know where she went. Like it's, I'm, maybe I'm too tired. Maybe like something's going on. I'm like burnt out from five other events. I, I don't know. I like couldn't find her. And before my first run, I actually knew I was gonna fall. Like I knew I was not gonna land it because I was just not in my competitive headspace. And I remember going up to the front. I was like, okay, there it is. Like there's a moment, hold on to it, hold on to it. Like I found it, I found it. I get to the front and they're like, commercial break, eight minutes.

• 59:52Jay Shetty?

  Oh my God.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  And I'm just like, are you kidding me? So there's video of me like fake punching a wall. I'm like running alone, like staring out a corner, just doing absurd things to try and just get myself into this like headspace. And it's very narrow and it's fleeting and I was there and now I'm not and I'm just losing it. And then it just clicks and I'm like, hold it for 30 seconds. And I do, and as soon as I land, I'm like, okay, I won.

• 1:00:16Jay Shetty?

  You knew it.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  I knew it. And then I went back up and did a better run. And then got the two highest scores of the contest and ended up winning. But what was really important, I think, about that contest is it was not about my skill. It was totally me versus me. It was like, I could have just not landed a run and it would have been me betraying myself. And so much of it came down to trust and willfulness of just like, how consciously can you enter flow state, which is totally counterintuitive? And you just can't do that. And so this is like the next best thing. And all I can say was extremely difficult. And when I fell to the ground and started crying, it was because I was totally spent. It was just like nothing I've ever done before. Yeah, it was really difficult.

• 1:01:00Jay Shetty?

  That is unbelievable. Thank you for walking us through play by play because you just don't get that insight. I mean, there needs to be a documentary on this. I hope you're working on it. You need to be able to see that, just that kind of stop, start, stop, start, stop, start, that what it does to an athlete's mind, even when you're so clear, even when you're so focused and driven and trained and prepared, there's so much to it. Moments later from winning, your whole day changes.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:27Jay Shetty?

  You get some big news. I remember watching that press conference. We see you break into tears. Talk to me about that moment and experiencing both that incredible high after so much sacrifice, training, prep, all the ups and downs you just walked through, and then experiencing such a low in pretty much in the next same day.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  This is like my first time really speaking about this publicly since. And it's just been so hard for me to metabolize after all this time because like you said, it's the highest high and the lowest low separated by a matter of minutes. My grandma had been sick for a long time and, and we knew that there was a chance that it was our last time saying goodbye to her when I left for the Olympics. And so I said all the things that I wanted to say to her. I told her I would be brave for her and made her a bunch of promises essentially. But my mom and I had actually spoken about it and we'd agreed that if something had happened to my grandma during the Olympics, I didn't want to know during the contest because it has happened and mourning prematurely and just like ruining this experience that I've trained for four years, like it's not going to help.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  I just cannot believe that my mom knew the whole time during my other events and did not break a sweat or a tear or anything. And she was so strong the entire time. That is unbelievable to me. Like it's her mother. That is just absurd. Like I genuinely cannot wrap my head around that. I actually get her emails. And so I checked my phone right after I had won. We hadn't done the podium ceremony yet. And so I saw an email from the funeral home and I just knew. And it was just like my ground was like cracking out from underneath me. And it's like, you think your reality is what it is until something just comes along and makes you feel like you were living in like a little fishbowl.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  I thought the Olympics was the most important single event that I could possibly imagine. I couldn't think of something that would be more gripping and compelling than that. And all of a sudden I was like, this doesn't matter. And all of a sudden, the thing that I held to be like the epitome of all of life just like fell away underneath me. And so that was very disorienting and like extremely earth shattering. Also, I had to do the press conference. I like couldn't skip this press conference. And so I like took a moment to mourn with my mom and then we just went to this press conference. And so I actually think that that, those like viral interviews where I have the gold bow in my hair, because that was, I had that in my pocket as like a lucky thing. And like, I was like, oh, if in case I win, I'm gonna put it in my hair to like represent femininity on the world stage in this, you know, like male dominated sport.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  All of those gold bow interviews, I actually knew already. And so when I'm smiling and talking about neuroplasticity and when I'm smiling and talking about like, oh, I'm gonna continue competing, like this is what I love to do. That was all so compartmentalized. And then at the very end, I wanted to like honor her and say, hey, by the way, one of the most important people in my life just passed away. I promised her I'd be super brave. I wanted to uphold the promises that I made to her. And it like, this is my moment of closure. I broke down during that, but like, I had to just turn something off in my brain to get through that press conference. And then you can imagine afterwards, it was just devastating. And then it was just horrible.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Like there were people online who were like, why is she at, you know, this event when she's like skipping her grandma's funeral? Like horrible, horrible things where I was like, I will take just about any kind of hate, but like you are not going to put my grandmother's name in your mouth in this situation. Like that is just like a line I will not cross. So I did keyboard warrior a little bit on that. But yeah, I planned my grandma's funeral. I found the choir for it. I found, selected the Bible verses for it. I picked the flowers. I did the ceremony. I did all the invites. It's my mom's mom. It's my grandma. It was really difficult, but I could not ask my mom to do that. And so I think my act of service to my family and like to the honor, to like honor my grandma was in service of that.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, I had to do a bunch of things after the Olympics for like a week or two. But immediately after, when we went back for the funeral, I had planned everything and, and we'd metabolized it. And that was just so, so challenging for, for the days after the Olympics.

• 1:05:41Jay Shetty?

  I would say that you showing both those sides of yourself when you're answering the questions about neuroplasticity in your mindset, are you as your superhuman self? And then you being honest about the loss of one of the most important women in your life was the most human thing you could have done. And to me, seeing those both on center stage as a gold Olympic winner, to me, there's nothing more powerful that could set a better standard for young athletes and young people all over the world. I mean, to be superhuman and human in the same breath.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  That's my grandma, just channeling her.

• 1:06:17Jay Shetty?

  Gonna end on a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Hit me.

• 1:06:22Jay Shetty?

  So Eileen Gu, these are your final five. Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  It will never be embarrassing to try.

• 1:06:30Jay Shetty?

  Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Waking up at four in the morning makes you more productive.

• 1:06:37Jay Shetty?

  That's a good one. Question number three, your advice for young women today?

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Define your own category. Meaning for women, there's a lot of boxes that feel more rigid as far as career, what being a mother means, what being a, you know, girl, just like, it can feel very rigid. And so I think it's like, define your own categories. You can be N of one.

• 1:06:59Jay Shetty?

  Question four, when you have a crash out or a bad day, what does Eileen Gu do?

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Cry. Oh my God, I cry. I cry so much and I think it's great. I think it's the most efficient way that you can release emotion and return to like a logical state. The sooner you can get the irrational out, the better. Also, I run a lot, so both of those, sometimes at the same time.

• 1:07:19Jay Shetty?

  Running and crying, wow.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  When it's really bad. Yeah.

• 1:07:21Jay Shetty?

  Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Maybe some kind of like independent study program early, like at age seven or eight, you have to like pick a project and stick with it for a year. And it's not in like a career, you know, it's not like every seven year old needs an internship, but some kind of like self-guided high agency exploration that values curiosity.

• 1:07:50Jay Shetty?

  Eileen Gu, I know you're extremely busy. I'm so grateful for your time, your presence, your energy. I hope this is the start of a great friendship and I wish you all the best. I'm rooting for you. I'm in your corner and here whenever you need. So congrats on everything. Thank you so much.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Thank you. I really, really am so grateful for our conversation today. I feel like I learned.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden. A bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece, following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Kathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. Watch East of Eden, October 1st, only on Netflix.

• 1:09:07Speaker 04

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:09:18Speaker 05

  Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:09:24Speaker 06

  What would happen if I stopped going? You stall, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 1:09:28Speaker 05

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:09:31Speaker 06

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:09:33Speaker 05

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  So much. I'm so excited. I feel invigorated.

• 1:09:39Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. Thank you.