Jay’s Must-Listens: 4 Powerful Lessons to Reflect From This Year & Move Into the Next With Clarity & Inspiration ft. Dr. Orna & Novak Djokovic

Today, we reflect on the moments that shaped us, challenged us, and quietly transformed us over the past year. Not just the highlights, but the heartbreaks, the pauses, the uncomfortable in-between seasons that forced us to grow in ways we didn’t fully understand at the time. In this special end-of-year compilation, you’ll hear powerful, deeply human insights from voices like Selena Gomez, Cardi B, Madonna, Novak Djokovic, Mel Robbins, Codie Sanchez, and more. Each conversation reveals how love, loss, pressure, purpose, spirituality, money, and self-belief intersect in real life, and why growth so often comes from moments we never would have chosen. You’ll hear Selena and Benny reflect on how love grows through safety, patience, and showing up imperfectly. Cardi B opens up about depression, heartbreak, and how time, accountability, and resilience helped her reclaim her power. Madonna shares why cultivating an internal, spiritual life is essential in a noisy, distracted world, while Novak Djokovic explores the tension between ambition, self-worth, and purpose even at the peak of success. Mel Robbins challenges us to reclaim our energy by letting go of other people’s opinions, and Codie Sanchez reframes money, risk, and opportunity as skills that can be learned rather than fears to avoid. Together, these conversations remind us that growth isn’t linear, healing takes time, and the most meaningful progress begins when we listen inward, protect our energy, and move forward with intention. In this episode, you'll learn: How to Turn Hard Seasons Into Personal Growth How to Build Love Through Vulnerability and Safety How to Heal After Heartbreak Without Rushing the Process How to Embrace Failure as a Starting Point, Not an Ending How to Let Go of Other People’s Opinions and Reclaim Your Energy How to Build Resilience Through Accountability and Time How to Move Forward With Purpose, Not Pressure Give yourself permission to heal at your own pace, to learn without shame, and to start again as many times as you need. Protect your energy, listen to what truly matters to you, and trust that small, intentional steps create meaningful change over time. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty. Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:20 Selena X Benny: Love Story 04:48 A Misunderstanding In The Studio 10:35 Love Blossomed From Friendship 12:27 The Little Things Matter 13:01 Emma Watson: Day To Day Activities & Hobbies 16:53 Honesty In Hardships 18:04 Staying Authentic To Yourself 20:01 Four Steps Forward, Four Steps Deep 23:07 Embracing Failure Creates Space For Resilience 24:34 Depression, Vulnerability & Divorce 28:53 Time Heals All 33:48 Handling Constant Criticism & Pressure 36:45 Madonna: 28 Years On A Spiritual Path 42:24 The Third Space Theory 44:16 Spiritual Practices To Keep You Going 48:30 Have You Really Dated a Narcissist? 50:15 Why Money Breaks Relationships 56:51 When Intimacy Needs Don’t Match 01:00:37 Cody Sanchez: Using Credit Cards the Smart Way 01:03:57 Do You Really Need Money to Start? 01:08:23 When Success Still Feels Like Not Enough 01:17:28 Where Your Energy Is Really Going 01:22:44 The Let Them Theory See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining, and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval, terms apply.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in a wearable. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12.

• 1:11Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one-hour workout to build strength, burn fat, and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com slash onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to my podcast channel. Thank you so much for being here. If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you do so that you never miss an episode.

• 1:54Jay Shetty?

  Now, I want to ask you, what moment changed you the most this year? Where in your life did you grow the most this year? Even if it didn't look like growth at the time. What if the toughest moment of your year was actually the moment preparing you for what's next? The end of the year is always a time for reflection, a time to look back at our journeys, our lessons and the growth we've experienced. Some moments challenged us, some inspire us, and some remind us of the power of presence, courage and connection. In this special compilation, we revisit some of the year's most powerful conversations on On Purpose. Deeply personal stories from guests whose honesty, insight and lived experiences

• 2:39Jay Shetty?

  offer invaluable guidance as we move into 2026. The perspectives shared here are more than stories. They're practical roadmaps for how to grow, reset and move intentionally into the year ahead. Let's get into it.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

• 3:04Jay Shetty?

  Selena and Benny take us into the heart of their love story, sharing how vulnerability, patience and humour have shaped their relationship. What started as a friendship between two young artists blossomed into love, reminding us that connection grows through presence, laughter and small acts of care. I was saying that, watching both your love story, and I know you were saying, Selena, two seconds ago, you're like, this is such a safe and cosy space to come to. I'm hoping that today we get to know your love story on a deeper level. And we get to access really what's in your hearts and minds because I think there's so many interviews and so many things that kind of will touch on the surface level of stuff. But I hope we can go deeper. So what I want to start with is I want to actually rewind.

• 3:47Jay Shetty?

  And I want to rewind to a place where we don't retell the story, but we get to relive your story with you. And I think there's a difference because when we tell a story, it's like, this is what happened. But when we relive it, it's almost like going back to who we were when that happened. So I want to go back to the first time you ever met and I want to hear about it.

• 4:04Selena Gomez?

  Well, the funny thing is, is we actually, it was so long ago that we don't remember.

• 4:10Speaker 05

  We know that her mother. Put us in a meeting together when. How old were you? Sixteen. So she was sixteen. Wow, I didn't realize it was that long ago. And, and, and I'm like four or five years older than you. So I was probably twenty, twenty-one. And her mom was trying to gather into music. And her mom is amazing, the way she goes from room to room. We've had her on the show, yeah. She's a powerhouse. Gets things to happen and, you know. And somehow she got us a meeting together. And we don't remember that. And, you know, after we had done songs together, there was one time where. It was probably two thousand sixteen or seventeen or something.

• 4:55Speaker 05

  I remember when you were in a studio, like Interscope Studios. And I remember I came, she doesn't remember it, but I remember I came in and I had this talk with you. And I remember being like, whoa, wow, like, Sydney's really like a complex person, like in a good way. And I was like, wow, she's, she's, she's so deep. And, and we had this conversation where I really, I was just really left by being like, oh, she's deep. And then we went and, and thought nothing more of it. And then when we did our song together, I remember leaving, not, not feeling romantic at all. I just remember leaving and I was talking, you know, because when you're a pop star

• 5:39Speaker 05

  like she is, and you're a huge entity and, and, and you've done so many things in your life. Before, like, people set up all these walls before. So it's like you get, like, like, before I came in, they're like, well, you know, this thing's like this, and this is like this, and like, she might not want to do that. And like, so, and they, they speak for people so much. And then I remember we were so, me and the director were so nervous. And then. The first second you like disarmed everybody. And I remember walking back and Jake was like, he's like, the guy who directing with me is like, it's gonna be so easy. What they, they made it seem like she was, this was gonna be this crazy thing. And the warmth I felt from her in that moment, I remember leaving being like, wow, Selena is such a cool girl.

• 6:24Jay Shetty?

  And Selena, you don't remember this at all?

• 6:25Speaker 05

  No, no, she remembers.

• 6:26Selena Gomez?

  I remember the video part, but it was interesting because um, yes, I don't have a very good memory. But uh, I just remember the video shoot. I didn't see anything romantic nor really felt that. But I had a really good time and that was probably the first time after years of doing music together and not together. That was the first time I really got to hang out with him and it was fun. I had a good time and that was that. Um, and then how it kind of continued was, I was always cautious because I always wanted to make sure that I did protect myself. So to be honest, I didn't talk to him very often.

• 7:10Speaker 05

  I thought she hated.

• 7:11Jay Shetty?

  Really?

• 7:12Speaker 05

  I really did.

• 7:12Selena Gomez?

  I knew that was coming.

• 7:13Speaker 05

  I really did. I thought she didn't, like, I would see her and I, and I would be like, does she not like me? Like, and I, like, we weren't thinking about anything. I was like, wow, she really like didn't talk to me a lot. And I was like, I thought I was being nice. And like, my friends would be like, no, no. And then like, there was another time I remember and my friends were like, oh yeah, she was kinda weird.

• 7:30Selena Gomez?

  I'm so sorry.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  And there was like a few times and I, and I didn't know. And I was just like, you know, I was like, that's okay.

• 7:38Selena Gomez?

  I thought I was being like polite by not.

• 7:42Speaker 05

  She didn't really engage.

• 7:44Selena Gomez?

  Basically, we, I was working on some music and we, we went through some of the demos that we had and single soon came up, which is ironic because it was actually nowhere near. Where I was in my personal life, but Benny happened to do the song.

• 8:05Speaker 05

  No, no, I didn't even do this. It was like one of my guys.

• 8:08Selena Gomez?

  Oh, and you came to fix it.

• 8:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I like came to help out because I was like, oh, I want their song to, I was like, I don't like the way this provided. Let me just at least help them. I said, I was like, well, I'm not sure if it'll be okay because I don't know if Selena likes me or something. And then John Janik, the, you know, the president of Interscope, he was like, well, why don't you just go into the session? She usually doesn't have people in, but just go in and like, if there is something that you feel is weird, like try to just smooth it over and talk to her and get in. And I said, okay, I'm gonna go smooth it over. So I went in. It was so funny. Right before I came, her engineer told me like later that she was like, ah, Benny's coming. And she was like.

• 8:47Selena Gomez?

  And here's our reasoning. I'm gonna defend myself.

• 8:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, you should.

• 8:51Selena Gomez?

  I get very nervous around the producers watching me sing.

• 8:56Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 8:56Selena Gomez?

  It's just a very intimate thing for me. I feel like I need to sound a certain way or do whatever to make them happy. And when I get to record with just me and my engineer and maybe someone I trust, I get more out of the experience. So I just was thinking, okay, well, maybe he'll stay for 10 minutes and we'll just talk for a second. And 10 minutes turned into like 30, then he went to the other room and I finished recording and he stayed there. And then, yeah, this is too long.

• 9:29Speaker 05

  No, no, no, I like it. So from my perspective, here's what happened. I get in there.

• 9:35Selena Gomez?

  I'm like.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  And I'm like, I gotta smooth this.

• 9:36Jay Shetty?

  I love this back and forth.

• 9:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't have this with anyone. Like, I was like, I want us to be chill. And obviously 99% of it was in my head. And I come in, we just start talking about life and her A and R is there. One of my friends is there. We're just, we're talking about life and we start talking about dating. And I was like, yeah, you know, I went out on this date, blah, blah, blah. And then I was talking to her and I said, oh, my God, I have so many good, single guy friends. I was like, we have dinners at the house all the time. You should come over sometime. And I wasn't even thinking about anything. And we're like, talking about like our ideal date and like this and that. And I wanted to make sure she did the line, right? So I was like, oh, I'll stay there to like, make sure it's good after.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  And then, so I did, we left and then. Yeah, I didn't have her cellphone number because she changed her number a bunch. So I asked someone, I said, hey, give me your cellphone number. I want to say like, you know, and I wrote, I was like, oh, my God. You were and during that, when I was with her, I was like, oh, my God. I was like, not only she's like, really cool. I was like, I want, I was like, I want to be like, I was like, I want her to be like in our friend group. And I couldn't even be thinking, I was like, I want her to be in our friend group. And I want to make sure this thing's smoothed out. So the song figures out, goes well and everything. So I said, let me just text her, thank you, or whatever. And I was like, you know, you were so sweet or something, something like that.

• 11:04Speaker 05

  And then she writes back, I guess we just were texting throughout the day. And she told me, she looked back at our message. She said, somehow you started sending like selfies where you looked really bad on purpose, like the worst ones.

• 11:17Selena Gomez?

  Yes.

• 11:18Speaker 05

  Who you started to do this.

• 11:19Selena Gomez?

  Yes, which by the way, no girls should really, or anyone in their right mind to someone they would have a crush on do that. But we were talking about ugly photos, like, because I always say I take the worst photos sometimes. And he's like, oh, you said something. And I sent him the worst pictures of me like since like in bed sick. And then, you know, me at weird photo shoots. And now, looking back on it, I'm, I'm just thinking that's, these are so weird. I don't know why.

• 11:53Speaker 05

  Did you like me in that moment yet or not yet?

• 11:55Selena Gomez?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 05

  Oh, you did. Okay. That's what I was trying to figure. I had no idea. So I had no idea. And somehow we decide. So wait, why did you do that if you liked Benny? Why were you sending?

• 12:04Selena Gomez?

  Well, because I didn't know that it was going to be like, maybe I thought it was just going to be flirting and not really anything else. But I really started to, to just, I don't know, fall for him.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  So I didn't know any of this. And then we decide. We're like, I forget how it happens, but we're like, yeah, let's hang out. And I was like, oh, my friend's having a birthday party tomorrow. I was like, you just, just come along. And I was like, just thinking friend stuff. And then, so she comes to mine and I guess she thought the party was gonna be at my house. But I was like, oh, in my head, I was like, oh, she'll just come over and we can just like, grab a drink first and then go there. Like, I'd be like, not thinking anything of it. I was like, we'll just like grab a drink at my friend's wine bar. It's on the way and then we'll go there. You were there and, and we were sitting together and she said something like, well, you know, because it's a date, I wore blah, blah. And I was like, and I was like.

• 13:01Selena Gomez?

  No, I said, if this was a date, I definitely would have dressed like nicer. And he just kind of looked at me and I thought we were on a date.

• 13:12Speaker 05

  And I was like, we're on a date. And then, and then we went, and then we didn't really talk about it.

• 13:16Jay Shetty?

  You thought, who thought it was a date?

• 13:17Speaker 05

  She thought it was. She thought it was a date.

• 13:20Selena Gomez?

  I'm sorry, a nice man takes me out for a drink, I assume it's a date.

• 13:24Speaker 05

  I didn't know.

• 13:25Jay Shetty?

  But no one had asked each other out yet.

• 13:26Speaker 05

  No, it was like, let's just hang out, like, and then we go to my friends, we go to this Thai restaurant. We go to Jitlada and we're like hanging out and there's a bunch of people there. And then she all of a sudden like leaves and she was like, I gotta go to, I have a video shoot really early in the morning. And I was like, okay. And I was like, but I wasn't like, cause it wasn't a date to me or anything. So I was like, okay, cool. And I stayed with my friends and stuff. And then she texts me after and I remember you being like, that was like one of the most fun times I've had in a really long time.

• 13:53Jay Shetty?

  Selena, so you technically asked Penny out on the first official date.

• 13:56Speaker 05

  She did, she did like every.

• 13:58Jay Shetty?

  Walk us through, walk us through that confidence, that, that energy.

• 14:02Selena Gomez?

  There wasn't any confidence, that's the scary part. I think that's when I recognized that I had some sort of feelings for him.

• 14:10Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that love thrives in authenticity. Showing up even imperfectly allows deep connections to form. It's not about creating the perfect story. It's about cherishing the moments that truly matter. Emma shares how the smallest, most ordinary moments can become profound teachers. How paying attention to what's unfolding right in front of us can reveal who we're becoming, what we need and what's ready to change. It's a reminder that growth doesn't just happen in big milestones. It happens in the quiet shifts and honest check-ins we allow ourselves. I was gonna ask you actually, because I want everyone to get. Up to date with where you are now, like, what is, what is your day to day life look like? You just said like, I wake up in a shower and I go on a walk, like, what is your day to day life look like right now?

• 14:55Jay Shetty?

  And what, what makes, what's it made of and what are the things that you love and look forward to?

• 15:00Emma Watson?

  I recently started riding a bicycle and yes, I started riding a bicycle before my driving ban. But now it's particularly fortuitous that I also ride a bicycle for that reason, but.

• 15:14Jay Shetty?

  Oh, that was mainstream news.

• 15:15Emma Watson?

  Yeah, oh my god. I was getting phone calls like, it's on the BBC, it's on international, worldwide news. I was like, my shame is everywhere. This is, I mean, what is it? I don't know. I think in a funny way, what the sweetest result of it was getting so many messages from being people being like, happened to me too. I feel you. This is awful. It sucks. Um, which was kind of nice in a way, but.

• 15:42Jay Shetty?

  You want a lift?

• 15:43Emma Watson?

  Yeah, totally. Do you need a lift? I was like, actually, yes. But I think, again, it's funny, like, I, I went from, when you work on movies, I don't know if people know this, but like, they literally will not insure you to drive yourself to work. I've asked so many times.

• 15:57Jay Shetty?

  You have to be driven.

• 15:58Emma Watson?

  You have to be driven. It's like not a choice. And especially because they need you there, you know, down to the minute, basically, depending on what they have going on. And so I went from basically only driving myself on weekends or during holiday to then when I became a student, driving myself all the time. And yeah, I did not have the experience or skills, uh, clearly, which I now will and, and, and do. But I think, again, this was one of these like awkward transitions I made from kind of living this like very, very structured life to living a life where I was like, okay, I guess I'm gonna get myself to this place and I'm gonna like do this thing that I've basically not done since I was 10 years old.

• 16:40Emma Watson?

  So it's been a discovery and a journey that's been, um, uh, yeah, I guess humbling because.

• 16:48Emma Watson?

  On a movie set, I'm able to do all of these like extremely complex things. Stunt, sing, dance, like do this thing, do that, whatever. And I'm like, yeah, don't worry about it, guys. No worries, I've got you. And then I get home and I'm like, okay, Emma, you seem unable to remember keys. Unable to like, keep yourself at thirty miles an hour in a, in a, in a thirty mile speed limit. Like, you, you don't seem able to do some pretty like basic life things. And it, it was definitely kind of, yeah, I had days where I just wanted to turn around to people and be like, I used to be good at things, okay? I used to be really good at things. And I know it doesn't look like that right now, but um, I, I used to, I, I can do things normally.

• 17:32Emma Watson?

  Um, so yeah, it's been, uh, it's been humbling.

• 17:36Jay Shetty?

  I feel, I feel like all of us, I feel like all of us can relate to that though.

• 17:39Emma Watson?

  Really?

• 17:40Jay Shetty?

  Because doesn't everyone forget their keys, their wallet, doesn't know where things are? Like, these are, these are like ser-, and by the way, I was, I think I was three points away from losing my licence before I moved to the States.

• 17:51Emma Watson?

  Thank you for that confession. I appreciate that so much.

• 17:53Jay Shetty?

  Because I was in the States for, I've been in the States now for nine years. And I think it happened just, but then all the points get wiped off.

• 17:59Emma Watson?

  Wow.

• 18:00Jay Shetty?

  And I think I'm now back to six points. I, I spent two months in London a year.

• 18:04Emma Watson?

  Okay, this makes me feel.

• 18:05Jay Shetty?

  Every time I go back, I seem to.

• 18:07Emma Watson?

  So much better. Oh, wow.

• 18:09Jay Shetty?

  I'm confessing too.

• 18:10Emma Watson?

  Okay.

• 18:11Jay Shetty?

  But I haven't lost it.

• 18:12Emma Watson?

  A lot of people, actually, a lot of people have like taken it upon themselves to come and confess to me, which I found like very, like very enduring and like really, really appreciate it. But no, I think, you know, I think something I've been realising is we, most of us live in a state of like, I'm just trying to kind of figure it out and keep it together. And the only thing that is different between us is people's willingness to be honest about.

• 18:43Emma Watson?

  That, the degree to which they can admit to, actually, I'm just like scrabbling around trying to keep the pieces together. Versus, um, oh yeah, I know, everything's amazing and everything's incredible and I'm having the best day ever and aren't you? And, you know, so I do love the people who, who are just willing to be like, yeah, it's, uh, it's all going so well today. I'm like, great, amazing. What a good starting point. Like, I don't know. Failure as a starting point feels like, I feel like attempting things is so compelling and of course, success is wonderful, but I love to see people who are like, I'm really bad at this, but I'm gonna try.

• 19:27Emma Watson?

  I love you. That's everything to me.

• 19:30Jay Shetty?

  And that, that seems to be becoming harder and harder now.

• 19:32Emma Watson?

  Hmm.

• 19:33Jay Shetty?

  Like that desire to attempt something that you might not be good at.

• 19:36Emma Watson?

  Yes.

• 19:36Jay Shetty?

  Because it's exposed or because everyone will see it or because everyone will hear about it.

• 19:40Emma Watson?

  Yeah.

• 19:41Jay Shetty?

  Talking about attempting things, I mean, you're currently studying, right? You're learning.

• 19:44Emma Watson?

  Yes, yes. Well, two things I wanna say there is, I think in a way, I was sort of, I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity, but I think I was also forced into it to a degree that, that maybe even I wasn't ready for and that like I just started so young that like I had to learn in public. I had to make mistakes in public and say, oh, okay, now I've learned this. And I had to be willing to go back and be like, hmm, like, there were some gaps here. Um, and here's what I know now. And I think people's, I agree with you. I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to learn in public.

• 20:27Emma Watson?

  And continuing to learn, I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why I, I have gone back to school and why I continue to do it is because I want to make sure that I have things to say that are worth saying. And I think you can only do that if you take a minute sometimes and.

• 20:46Emma Watson?

  Listen to some people who aren't you, you know, and like not just the sound of my own, my own wonderful voice. Um, so yeah, it's been, it's been great. And I think also I needed to, I wanted to be inspired. I think being around, my favorite piece has been being around young people who still believe that the world is malleable and things are changeable and that like anything can be done is um such important energy. There's so much dystopian fiction at the moment and dystopian movies.

• 21:20Jay Shetty?

  It's all dark.

• 21:21Emma Watson?

  It's so dark. And I'm just like, what happened to thinking about the utopia? What happened to like planning for the best case scenario? Like where, where did we lose? Yeah, vision, excitement, imagination, possibility. So I think it's been, um, yeah, it's been wonderful to be around young people and just to sit there and listen frankly.

• 21:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Emma Watson?

  Do you ever, I mean, you clearly read so much. Do you have to take yourself away to do it in order to be able to do it? Do you have to cordon off time? Like, how are you still managing to study and learn? Because that seems like it's important to you.

• 21:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you, you reminded me as you were talking of one of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher, who always said to me, if you want to move three steps forward, you have to go three steps deep first.

• 22:07Emma Watson?

  Whoa.

• 22:08Jay Shetty?

  And what I've found often in my life is I'm trying to go four steps forward and I haven't yet gone four steps deep. And so it's almost like, I mean, this is probably a terrible analogy, but maybe thinking of the movie The Substance. I don't know if you watched it.

• 22:22Emma Watson?

  I didn't see it.

• 22:23Jay Shetty?

  Okay, fine. Okay, terrible. Let's, let's remove that.

• 22:24Emma Watson?

  No, no, no.

• 22:25Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no, let's forget about it. But, but it's that idea of like, every extra step you take, when you haven't learned and you haven't experimented and you haven't attempted, is taking away from your ability to move forward. And sometimes I think when we feel stuck or when we think things are not moving or they're not progressing, it may be a sign to say, well, pause and go deeper for a second or pause and go inward for a second. And so to me, hearing that from you, I, I find that, and, and I'm, I definitely fail at this all the time. There are so many times I'm trying to push more forward than I've gone deep. And so whenever I notice that myself and I notice that I'm just kind of trying everything and nothing is working, it's actually just the universe and.

• 23:10Jay Shetty?

  Self saying to me, go read, go study. And so I've found that I've had to really carve out time to make time to do what I love, which is to read and study. But I've found that I'm someone who doesn't love thirty minutes a day. I'm not that kind of a reader. I'm someone who needs to read for three or four hours, if not more.

• 23:29Emma Watson?

  Yeah.

• 23:29Jay Shetty?

  And so I found that carving out deep immersive time

• 23:32Emma Watson?

  Yes.

• 23:33Jay Shetty?

  is more important to me than this kind of mechanical thirty, forty minutes a day, which is great for you if that works for you as a habit.

• 23:40Emma Watson?

  Yeah.

• 23:40Jay Shetty?

  It doesn't for me because I'm a bit of an extremist and I just need to spend a whole weekend reading.

• 23:45Emma Watson?

  Yeah.

• 23:45Jay Shetty?

  As opposed to, you know, I need, I don't need to read every day. So I'll try and, I try once a month on a weekend to just absorb into a subject that I love. And I'll take a course, I'll go to a class, I'll watch a TED Talk online, I'll read as many books as I can. And I try and immerse myself that way. What's your learning style?

• 24:04Emma Watson?

  I'm the same as you. And actually, uh, someone who I really respect and ask for advice for often, and I ask for feedback on, on myself. He said to me, Emma, I think if you did ninety percent of what you wanted to do at fifty percent of the speed, you would get so much more, like, life would be so much better. And I was like, wow, fifty percent of the speed and only ninety percent of what I want to do. And he was like, I think that's the minimum, to be honest. And I was like, wow. But I think, uh, it, yeah, what you said resonates, I think. I often have to remind myself that it's not about speedily getting somewhere. It's just not the point. Things are supposed to happen

• 24:48Emma Watson?

  um, with a certain timing.

• 24:51Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that life's transitions, even the awkward or challenging ones, are opportunities to grow. Struggle doesn't diminish our past achievements, it humanizes us. Being honest about where we are and embracing failure as a starting point creates space for real learning, authenticity and resilience.

• 25:16Jay Shetty?

  Want to make a real difference this giving season? This December, On Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty, podcasts teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of extreme poverty. We're doing it through GiveDirectly, which sends cash straight to families so they can choose what they need most. Donate at givedirectly.org/onpurpose. First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal is $1 million by year's end, enough to lift 700 families out of poverty. Join us at givedirectly.org/onpurpose. This episode is brought to you by Vinted.

• 26:00Jay Shetty?

  Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them, whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part? There are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn.

• 26:45Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favourite podcast. Choose a seller or North East Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip.

• 27:16Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 27:59Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 28:16Jay Shetty?

  Cardi B opens up about the difficult chapters she has walked through in her life. Career pressures, relationship struggles, and the loneliness that followed. If you've ever been in a season that felt heavy or impossible to move through, her story shows how accountability, reflection, and time can help you rebuild and grow. Talk to me about that depression. For you, as confident as you are, as bold as you are, to be so vulnerable, and I'm so sorry you went through that, but to be so honest and open about the fact that a year ago you were in this dark depression, and it seems like the worst it had ever been.

• 28:53Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 28:53Jay Shetty?

  What got you there? Why were you feeling so low?

• 28:56Speaker 07

  It was just a lot of pressure from my career.

• 29:02Speaker 07

  And I also felt like my marriage, like I felt the love dying.

• 29:10Speaker 07

  From my end, from, from, from my end, from his end. I was very lonely because I chose to be lonely, choose to be lonely. I was saying like, you know what? I can't go through this anymore. I have to put a stop to it. But when I said I was gonna put a stop to it, because you could say you're gonna put a, put a stop to it, and you could, you could go a month without being around somebody.

• 29:35Speaker 07

  It's not, it's not until you, it's not.

• 29:40Speaker 07

  When you say so, it's when your heart say so.

• 29:44Speaker 07

  I kept telling myself, I will not contact this person for a month. I will not give in. I will not forgive this easy. I will not go back. I will not go to the pattern. I will not go through it. But I was crying every day. I was hurt every day. I was out here in L.A. in a mansion by myself. I was thinking about it every single day. And when your heart is not done, your heart is not done.

• 30:11Speaker 07

  Then, I told myself,

• 30:16Speaker 07

  I'm pregnant.

• 30:22Speaker 07

  I'm going to accept the,

• 30:27Speaker 07

  I'm gonna accept my flaws, the flaws that I bring in this marriage. I'm gonna apologize for it, and I'm gonna work on it.

• 30:36Speaker 07

  And when I take accountability, and you take advantage of me taking accountability, and you take that as a, see, I know she be back, instead of me taking accountability, and you taking advantage of that, it really just killed everything. And while it was dying, I had a human growing in me. And I just had, and I just kept thinking like, it's like, what's life going to be without this person? What life going to be without raising my last child without this person? What's life going to be with that person not being my friend anymore? Without nothing. When you have those type of thoughts,

• 31:21Speaker 07

  it will make you sad, it will get you depressed.

• 31:26Speaker 07

  It will have you lost. But I overcame that. And I am the the strongest. That like I have ever been like I almost feel like. When was I ever my strongest my the? I felt my strongest when I was twenty two, twenty three, twenty four. That's when I felt like my strongest and I was like living in a power. And that's how I feel right now, like I feel like I live in a power. And it took months. For the heart to say. You're done instead of my mouth and my brain. My heart had to be like, you're done. Cause you could say it and you could take actions.

• 32:08Speaker 07

  But even if you take actions, if you're not done, you're not done like I kept asking. Like around that time I was working with Shakira and I was like, how the? Did you over overcame this like? How did you overcame this and it's like it's going to happen? And it's like it would never happen and it happened. It took some crying, it took some thoughts, scary thoughts.

• 32:33Speaker 07

  But I'm here, honey.

• 32:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 32:35Speaker 07

  I'm I'm here and I'm the strongest I've been and I'm.

• 32:39Speaker 07

  Just.

• 32:41Jay Shetty?

  I love hearing that.

• 32:44Speaker 07

  But it was hard.

• 32:45Jay Shetty?

  I can tell I I could tell I could see it. As I'm speaking to you, it's it's not easy and. I think those moments in all of our lives are are the most difficult moments. What did you do for your mental health at that time? What what did you do? What actions did you take? What did you have to? Do to keep yourself together and come back the strongest you are right now? I think there are so many people who are listening, who have probably been through similar things, who feel broken, feel hurt, feel. Lost and confused. What worked for you? That helped you come back the strongest you've ever been?

• 33:17Speaker 07

  I don't know if it was just time because I kind of did a little bit of everything. Like I I did do therapy.

• 33:27Speaker 07

  I did so I did so therapist, she's really good, by the way. It was I consume and it was like. I I was telling myself like it's like I can't believe. I'm telling a whole stranger. My feelings, my thoughts, my personal business for three fucking hours straight.

• 33:48Speaker 07

  I was just like, what the fuck am I doing? That just feels so weird. I was in there, I did therapy for, I did a couple of sessions. They didn't give me no nothing. I was all spring, all summer, recording. It just wasn't like enough. I just felt like I just had to let it die on its own. Let things die on its own. And the bad thing about it is that it's like, now only am I dealing with that. That's, that's my personal life. I was also dealing with fans putting pressure on me. Cause they want, you know, they want an album, they want products from me. I had people that don't like me, talking down on me.

• 34:34Speaker 07

  And then I had peers trying to start problems with me. And all of that, while I was going through a mental fucking breakdown at home. So it was just a lot. It was like, I'm trying to work it. I'm trying to sleep it. After I gave birth to my daughter, my, my baby girl, I was just like, fuck it.

• 35:01Speaker 07

  Take a break from work and I was just going out every weekend with my friends. It was scary talking to somebody else and giving them a little piece of me. Not just out my heart, just a little piece of me.

• 35:17Speaker 07

  And, but.

• 35:23Speaker 07

  I overcame that.

• 35:26Speaker 07

  And I just, that's why I feel like I just became a little bit more better, like just resetting.

• 35:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a good, it's a good reminder that time is the ultimate reset. And time does have a healing power that we, you know, the cliche of time heals all wounds.

• 35:43Speaker 07

  But it's the truth.

• 35:44Jay Shetty?

  But it's true, yeah, it's a cliche because there's truth in it.

• 35:46Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 35:46Jay Shetty?

  There's some reality in it, that time and distance and, and being patient enough. I was, I was working with a client recently who was going through a breakup. And when we would speak in the first month, she would tell me every single day that she couldn't stop thinking about the guy she was breaking up with, that broke up with her. And then the second month, she'd tell me every. Other day. And then the third month, you tell me once a week.

• 36:17Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 36:17Jay Shetty?

  And then the fourth month, you were just telling me once a month. And I was like, you don't see it, but I see.

• 36:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 36:23Jay Shetty?

  That it's affecting you less and less and less as time goes on. But when it's you, you feel like you're just still stuck there. And so it's such a great reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time does heal.

• 36:34Speaker 07

  And and just because time heal, like in the meantime, don't, don't think that like you shouldn't like try to get help. Because it's like therapy didn't really he- help me like that.

• 36:45Jay Shetty?

  I didn't work for you.

• 36:47Speaker 07

  Not as much. Well, maybe because, maybe because I didn't get to the part of where you get the help. I mean, I did do this like six sessions. I don't know, I don't know how long. Um, like sometimes when I give advice to girls, I be like, bitch, boss up, boss up, go to work, get pretty. But even when I was doing that, I had like a pain in my heart. And sometimes when I was going out with my friends and I was having a good time, it will always be like around four thirty A M. When it's time to go home. And I'm drunk and I'm thinking to myself, I am alone. I don't have nobody to talk to.

• 37:30Speaker 07

  And it feels really weird and it feels very lonely, especially when you're used to that.

• 37:37Speaker 07

  However, don't, don't avoid that.

• 37:42Speaker 07

  Don't like, don't avoid that. But it will be time that will heal it. It will be time. Time just heals everything.

• 37:50Jay Shetty?

  When you said again last week, you were saying when you put new music out, it was kind of the lowest you'd felt in another year. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism? Because like you said, you're quick with it. You've got responses. You've lived in a place where you had people coming at you. Why is it so hard to put out something you love? It seems like you really put your heart into your work.

• 38:12Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 38:12Jay Shetty?

  And so when you put that out, is is that why the criticism hurts the most? Because you put so much heart and soul into your work?

• 38:20Speaker 07

  Yes, because I put like a lot. I always, I don't like what, like, I'm not a lazy person.

• 38:26Jay Shetty?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:27Speaker 07

  And I do understand my flaws. Well, it's not really my flaws, because a lot of people will say something about my accent, right? But it's funny, because my accent to some people might be my flaw, but it's also my superpower and what makes me unique. Some people will say that I have a Spanish, a Spanish accent, but I really don't really have a Spanish accent. I have a very unique accent. I talk very unique. When you try your best to like,

• 38:55Speaker 07

  perfect your accent, perfect your flows, perfect everything. I always try to perfect everything that I'm doing at the time. I always try to perfect it. Like, even when I was a stripper, I guess like, okay, I'm a stripper, but I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here. And I'm gonna fucking bust my ass, bust my knees, practice every day until I could be the best at it. That's the same with music. I'm gonna perfect it. That's the same with my, um, marketing. I'm gonna perfect it. That's the same with my business. I'm gonna perfect it. I like to perfect things. And, and if it's not the best things, if I, if I'm not the best at it, I could say that I tried to be,

• 39:38Speaker 07

  and I worked my ass off to be, and I didn't make it easy for myself. So when people just throw it in your face, and then make other narratives on top of it with that, it's like, that is so mean. And, and it's also like different narratives of you, like, it's like, wow, you, you don't even know me. You don't even know me, and you're making all these stories, scenarios, all this this, over one song.

• 40:05Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that time is one of the greatest healers. Growth often comes through discomfort, and while therapy and external support absolutely help, the ultimate reset is patience, self-awareness, and persistence. Difficult chapters can lead to profound transformation if we let them. Next up, Madonna discusses the role of spirituality in navigating life's ups and downs. Her spiritual practice has been a guiding force throughout her life, helping her stay driven, aware, and intentional. She emphasizes the importance of reflection and taking space for yourself, especially in a world increasingly dominated by work and digital distractions. What's your intention for being here today? Why now? Why today?

• 40:51Speaker 08

  Well, in the past, I've usually done interviews to promote my work, whether that's music, or a tour, or film. But today, I would like to talk about my spiritual life, and the spiritual path that I've been on for over 28 years. This wisdom has helped me navigate the ups and downs of life, for lack of a better expression. People ask me a lot, through the years, like, "What is the reason you're still sane? What is the reason you keep going? Why have you not fallen by the wayside like other people?" Definitely, a lot of my peers, who are no longer with us,

• 41:36Speaker 08

  like, what would you say is the key? And I would say that is my spiritual life. I absolutely would not be where I am, or who I am, if I did not have that. It's helped me enormously, as I said, navigate the ups and downs of life. So I feel like I would like to share that with people. So that's really the point of, I'm not here to promote a product, or I don't want anyone to buy anything. I just, I want to share something with people that has pretty much saved my life. That sounds dramatic, but it's true.

• 42:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to you, and a deep part of your life that often, I feel you don't get to share in other spaces. So even though it's been a part of your life for nearly three decades, maybe you haven't shared parts of it before. What would your life look like if you didn't find it?

• 42:37Speaker 08

  I would believe that the physical world is all there is. I would believe all the illusions. And that would be my downfall. And that is most people's downfall.

• 42:47Jay Shetty?

  What does spirituality mean to you? Because I think that word itself means so many things to so many people.

• 42:51Speaker 08

  Well, yes, I mean, a spiritual life, or a spiritual path, could be, mean a lot of things. I know that you have a spiritual path. And for me, it's not really about, like, whose is the best? Or, you know, it's whatever works for you. I've been studying Kabbalah for 29 years. So since 1996? Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 08

  It's a long time. It's a long time. And I'm not a frivolous person. I don't suffer fools gladly. If something, if I think there's something false about it, or corrupt, or not authentic, I wouldn't have stuck around for so long. I've had the same teacher for all this time. I feel like, almost like it's my responsibility to share with people, because I feel like, I feel like people need guidance. People need enlightenment. And for me, a spiritual life is having an internal life. Because you know this, I'm sure, you know, if we get caught up in the belief system

• 44:00Speaker 08

  that our value in the world is based on people loving us, or other people's approval, or how much money you have, or how many fabulous outfits you have, or how many followers you have on Instagram. Those things don't make us happy. Those things don't bring us peace. So, having an internal life and being able to look internally and having some kind of practice, whatever that might look like, your prayer, your meditations, that those, the time you take out of every day to stop and take stock, like contemplate. We live in a very busy, chaotic world. Lots of noise, lots of distraction. I mean, how many times

• 44:43Speaker 08

  have you heard people say, oh, you know, social media, and like all the, you know, people can't walk down the street without listening to music. Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. Like, there is no peace. There is no quiet. We're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves, why am I here? Or what am I doing? Or what is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now? Whether it's about my work, or the way I'm raising my children, decisions that I make about... Everything, really.

• 45:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 08

  I have to ask myself, and if you don't have a spiritual life, you're never gonna stop and ask any questions. You're just gonna plow through life. And if you just, and, and, and you're gonna see everything that happens to you as just a random event. And I don't believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us, to teach us some kind of a lesson. But, you know, the question is, are you aware enough? Are you awake enough? Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is? Like, why did this happen to me? What is my lesson? I don't wanna go through life seeing everything that happens to me as random, but I also don't wanna go through life as a victim.

• 46:01Speaker 08

  And I've had a pretty challenging life. And it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself, or like, being a victim, or, you know, why, why isn't this happening to other people? Why is it happening to me? Why don't I have what that person has? I'm sure you know the expression comparison is the killer of joy. So, you know, it's like, you gotta, to get out of that game, you have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.

• 46:26Jay Shetty?

  You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across called the third space theory. Have you heard of it?

• 46:33Speaker 08

  Uh-uh.

• 46:34Jay Shetty?

  It's this idea that, as humans, around 50 years ago, we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home, and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church, a community center, or a third space. And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying, was a place that you could look back at work and home, and you could reflect on your life. You could take stock, you could introspect. But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it may be.

• 47:08Speaker 08

  A place of self-reflection.

• 47:09Jay Shetty?

  A place of self-reflection. And we ended up with work and home. And then after the pandemic, we lost work. And so now we're in one space, and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying.

• 47:24Speaker 08

  Go back an even one more step, that to me is like a prison. Get if you get if you remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace, then you you're in the home and then removed once more from home is you're looking at your phone.

• 47:42Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 47:43Speaker 08

  Which is even takes you out of home.

• 47:45Jay Shetty?

  It's a great point, yeah.

• 47:46Speaker 08

  So, like, where are you? You're nowhere.

• 47:49Jay Shetty?

  We're all living in the virtual world. Yeah, we're living in the virtual world, not even in the material world, which is.

• 47:53Speaker 08

  Yes, but a virtual and a virtual world is not a bad world. But if you don't have consciousness, there's really no point to living.

• 48:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, yeah, so it's it's it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had, we need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things.

• 48:14Speaker 08

  Yes, I mean, some kind of ritualistic behavior ha- has to happen.

• 48:18Jay Shetty?

  What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued, what I'm curious. What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times? As you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong or you kept pushing and you kept they kept you locked. What were they? What are they?

• 48:39Speaker 08

  Well, one really important thing is studying, making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Cahill Gibran, or you can study the Vedas, you you know.

• 48:58Jay Shetty?

  And you did that, right? You actually studied different traditions on.

• 49:01Speaker 08

  I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I I was looking for answers and.

• 49:07Jay Shetty?

  Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers?

• 49:09Speaker 08

  Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had successful career, I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy and I naturally sought out. Well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate. She was a Buddhist and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that. Like, nothing bothered her, you know what I mean? Everything bothers me.

• 49:47Speaker 08

  Everything bothers me. I'm, you know, I'm a Leo. I'm, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic. I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness that everything was happening for a reason. She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career, when I was living in New York and I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened to me. Really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her, her name is Marianne, I would always say, what, like, why are you, like, never upset? So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me.

• 50:26Speaker 08

  And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga, and my teacher Eddie Stern, he still has a...

• 50:33Jay Shetty?

  Love Eddie, he's great.

• 50:35Speaker 08

  You know Eddie?

• 50:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 08

  Yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up in and competitive about like first series, second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses. They would just go and sit in front of the Statue of Ghanesh or light candles or prayer. And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me, because sometimes I would have injuries, I would, or I would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga, and he'd say, "Look, are you breathing?" And I'd say, "Yes," and he said, "You're practicing yoga." So I realized that I was too, still, too caught up in the physical poses. He's like, "No, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point.

• 51:20Speaker 08

  The poses are just something that you do to breathe through, to calm your nervous system down and to bring you back to your center." And that really spoke to me. There was a big, now it was a painting on the wall of the yoga studio, it says, "Desire and Detachment." And I said, "What does that mean?" And he said, "Well..."

• 51:43Speaker 09

  Of course, we want, we want all the beautiful things in life. We want all the pleasures. We want all the happiness. We want every, we want it all. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't be attached to it. Because then if you're attached to it and you don't have it, what's going to happen to you?

• 51:57Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that cultivating an internal life through spirituality, reflection, or mindful practice anchors us amidst life's chaos. Understanding our experiences as lessons rather than random events allows growth, purpose, and resilience. Dr. Orner masterfully explores the dynamics of narcissism and relationships, showing how our interactions often reflect deeper patterns within ourselves. She reminds us to look beyond surface labels and understand the real drivers of our behavior and choices in relationships. Everyone feels like they've dated a narcissist.

• 52:35Speaker 09

  Mm hmm.

• 52:37Jay Shetty?

  How accurate are they?

• 52:38Speaker 09

  A hundred percent accurate because we all have parts of ourselves that are narcissistically oriented, meaning they are to protect our sense of self. Some people move more to the extreme and they're really like deeply wounded and have to spend a lot of energy protecting themselves and working around their ego. But most of us in certain situations were provoked to behave in more narcissistic ways. And when we're offered other conditions, we can be more open and interested in the world. So it's usually the way it's used in pop language.

• 53:19Speaker 09

  It's usually just like a word that covers up a whole other world of things. I think when people talk about, I've dated a narcissist, they're like, that person didn't give me enough attention.

• 53:34Speaker 09

  And what's that about? There could be so much there, like what went on between the two of you? Why? What happened? Where were you in that? It's, it doesn't tell you much.

• 53:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I'm so happy to hear that because I do think that. The word is relief and it's not that it's wrong. It's just that don't stop unpacking it there.

• 53:55Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 53:55Jay Shetty?

  So those words are really helpful for you to categorize, summarize your experience.

• 54:00Speaker 09

  Mm hmm.

• 54:01Jay Shetty?

  But don't feel that that's the end of the investigation. Like there's so much more.

• 54:06Speaker 09

  Exactly.

• 54:06Jay Shetty?

  And you're actually doing yourself a disservice.

• 54:09Speaker 09

  Yeah, and the moment you're thinking about, I found a word that finds all the problem outside of me. You're deluding yourself.

• 54:17Jay Shetty?

  When you find couples come in with financial issues.

• 54:20Speaker 09

  Mm hmm.

• 54:21Jay Shetty?

  Is it really about money?

• 54:22Speaker 09

  Money is a big issue for people. Money is a big issue for people. You know, the question of money, one of the questions that people, that couples deal with when they're fighting or debating about money is the deep question of mine versus ours. What's mine and what are we sharing? And the most concrete version of it is money, but it's everything. It's time, it's attention, it's airtime, it's sex, it's so much is like mine versus ours. But money is like, especially in our culture, money is like the most concrete way to talk about it and to fight about it.

• 55:06Speaker 09

  Like if you're making more money than your spouse or than your partner, who pays for dinner? Like what's, what's the vibe between the two of you? Is it shared money or is it, no, we're still going Dutch, right? Fights about money are, are about the concreteness of money, but they're also about where do I begin and end and what's us together? And then there's a whole other thing with money, which is money is also something to do with our relationship with reality.

• 55:41Speaker 09

  Right, you, you, I mean, back to the idea of someone hiding a suitcase with bills, unpaid bills under the bed. Like, how realistic is your relationship with reality, with what you have, with what you're making? Like, when people talk about money, they're talking about reality in certain ways. What I, I usually ask people, how do you think money should play out between the two of you? If you're making more money than your partner, what is your ideology on this? What do you really think should happen? Does that give you more power? Does that mean you should be making more of the decisions? Does that mean your partner should be paying for less? How do you think about it, each of you?

• 56:25Speaker 09

  Just what, what's your basic ideology? Which is hard for people to acknowledge, right? They, they wanna feel like, no, money doesn't matter, but it matters to everyone in some way or another. They have an ideology. So are they willing to put it on the table to be honest with how they think about it? And then, once you compare these ideologies, then we can have a discussion. It's back to the idea of like, the, the couple creating the, their political backdrop. Like, what is the politics of this relationship? Are you like socialist or are you capitalist? Are you? What's your economic system?

• 57:03Jay Shetty?

  What if we disagree? What if we vote differently?

• 57:06Speaker 09

  You probably will disagree. On some level, you will, somewhere, you will disagree, and then it's gonna get interesting. It's gonna be like a congress, like, right? Debating what's the right way to do it. But it's better to have that debate on the table, rather than act it out in those like, what was that film? There was that, oh my god, it's a film in which, um, the, there's a shipwreck. There's this couple that are sitting at the dinner table, and they're looking at each other like, who's gonna pull out the credit card?

• 57:35Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I don't know.

• 57:36Speaker 09

  Brilliant scene. Everything about their relationship was in that scene.

• 57:41Jay Shetty?

  I don't know.

• 57:42Speaker 09

  With her kind of pretending she lost her card.

• 57:46Jay Shetty?

  Oh, okay.

• 57:47Speaker 09

  And him reluctantly pulling out his credit card. And then there was, it was just like, perfect.

• 57:53Jay Shetty?

  I was thinking of a movie called Fair Play.

• 57:55Speaker 09

  I didn't see that.

• 57:56Jay Shetty?

  Did you see that?

• 57:57Speaker 09

  I heard about it. I didn't see it.

• 57:58Jay Shetty?

  I would think you'd, I don't know if you'd enjoy it. I don't know your taste in movies, but I think it's pretty interesting. It's a story about, it's a movie made about a couple who are competing for the same job because they work at the same company.

• 58:11Speaker 09

  Oh.

• 58:11Jay Shetty?

  But it's really dark and it really goes into that. The psychology of competition, gender roles, the pay gap.

• 58:20Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 58:20Jay Shetty?

  Everything comes to play.

• 58:22Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 58:22Jay Shetty?

  And it shows how it affects them from the bedroom to the boardroom to everywhere else.

• 58:27Speaker 09

  Awesome.

• 58:28Jay Shetty?

  It's really well done. Yeah, it's really well done. It just, it just shows you what's going on inside of our heads that doesn't often come out. And, and, and just how we all feel. And it's so interesting how society and all of this has such a play on how we feel about our role and who we are. Today, we have so many more people to look at and view and see how their lives are going. I had, I had a friend who his girlfriend made more money than him.

• 58:57Speaker 09

  Mm hmm.

• 58:57Jay Shetty?

  And he did really well for himself, but she made more money than him. So she, but she expected him to pay for everything. And she wanted him not only to pay for dinners and rent. And she wanted him to buy her a car. She, because she believed that.

• 59:13Speaker 09

  Because he's a man?

• 59:14Jay Shetty?

  Because he's the man. That's how she should be treated.

• 59:17Speaker 09

  Interesting.

• 59:18Jay Shetty?

  You know, that was for her.

• 59:19Speaker 09

  Imagine them having a conversation.

• 59:21Jay Shetty?

  They ended up breaking up.

• 59:22Speaker 09

  But what would their conversation sound like?

• 59:25Jay Shetty?

  Literally this. I deserve this. I'm a queen. I'm a princess. I'm like, this is how I should be treated.

• 59:33Speaker 09

  Do you think she would, she said something like that?

• 59:35Jay Shetty?

  She said stuff like this, yeah, yeah.

• 59:37Speaker 09

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 59:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 09

  That's amazing.

• 59:40Jay Shetty?

  And you see a lot of this language on TikTok and things like that about what a high value man is, what a high value woman is, and a lot of the language and vocabulary out there today.

• 59:49Speaker 09

  What is, what is meant by a high value man?

• 59:52Jay Shetty?

  I mean, there's lots of different definitions, but generally it's someone who does, has a good career, makes a lot of money, does well for themselves, and you know, that, the, the obvious definition of it.

• 1:00:03Speaker 09

  Well, it's not obvious.

• 1:00:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but the.

• 1:00:05Speaker 09

  To me, it's not obvious.

• 1:00:06Jay Shetty?

  It is obvious, yeah. But it's just interesting to hear how these societal ideas kind of, because then we're like, oh, but you're not with a high value man, you know? And, and it's really interesting because in my world, a high value man would be someone who has good values, like.

• 1:00:21Speaker 09

  Right. The good values being like ethics.

• 1:00:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, ethics, yeah, exactly. Like character, moral character, like strength and courage and bravery and.

• 1:00:30Speaker 09

  Yes.

• 1:00:31Jay Shetty?

  You know, honesty and, you know, that's what I would consider a high value person, forget a high value man.

• 1:00:35Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:00:36Jay Shetty?

  Um, and it's interesting how all this language at play kind of cascades ideas quickly, like you said.

• 1:00:43Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Jay Shetty?

  Because it's easier, rather than saying I'm with a good man, it's easier to say I'm with a high value man. But, you know, what does that mean?

• 1:00:49Speaker 09

  Right.

• 1:00:49Jay Shetty?

  Um, yeah, I was gonna ask you, do more people want more intimacy or more sex?

• 1:00:56Speaker 09

  I think it depends. First of all, it's, it's a complicated thing to draw the line between intimacy and sex.

• 1:01:04Jay Shetty?

  Oh, interesting, okay.

• 1:01:05Speaker 09

  And I think it depends very much on the stage of the relationship. Early on, one of the things, I mean, we all know that, one of the things that binds people, one of the strongest glues is sex, like passion and excitement about each other and like, you know, wanting to get into bed together. And then at some point, people start coming to terms with like differences, differences in scripts, differences in appetite. I know that the, the.

• 1:01:39Speaker 09

  Like, the stereotype is that men are more focused on sex and want more sex and women want less, or it's less important to them. I don't think that's actually true. I think, again, it's very hard to make generalizations and it changes between like straight and queer couples, so it's really not necessarily about the biology, but I think typically, there are different focuses for men and women. And then later in the relationship, things change, because I think later in the relationship, the line between sex and intimacy gets very blurry.

• 1:02:21Speaker 09

  And I think generally, everyone wants both intimacy and sex. Everyone wants it, and everyone wishes it for themselves and wants it in large quantities. Everyone needs it, but they focus on different things.

• 1:02:36Jay Shetty?

  And no one has energy for it.

• 1:02:38Speaker 09

  And no one has energy for it, and anyway, a lot of it is about wanting to feel desire of some sort.

• 1:02:46Jay Shetty?

  That's what it is.

• 1:02:47Speaker 09

  That's really what it is, and not necessarily wanting, you know, "Oh, I need to have it three times a week, or I need this, or I need that." It's a lot about the experience of desire and being desired that is really kind of the thing we all want, to be living in desire, rather than living in a certain kind of deadness.

• 1:03:11Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that self-awareness is essential. Relationships challenge us to explore our patterns, and understanding those dynamics allows us to set boundaries, make healthier choices, and build relationships that honor our value.

• 1:03:33Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't.

• 1:04:16Jay Shetty?

  Mazda, more of what matters to you. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair.

• 1:05:01Jay Shetty?

  Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated, calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last, and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality, so you can shop With more confidence. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly.

• 1:05:47Jay Shetty?

  Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 1:06:14Jay Shetty?

  Cody Sanchez dives into financial literacy, debunking myths about credit, debt and the resources needed to start a business. For anyone who's ever felt overwhelmed by money, even small actions like opening a credit card, this will help you feel more confident in your financial decisions. Walk me through the myths about credit cards and debit cards that people can solve right now. Is there a special credit card they should be getting?

• 1:06:41Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:41Jay Shetty?

  Is there one that's better? What should they be looking out for? What does APR mean? You know, walk me through the hidden things behind credit cards that we all feel stupid about. When you see an ad and you're like, I have no idea what that means.

• 1:06:53Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, it's so true. You know, I had an employee, actually Christian, who's in from the UK too. And we were ridiculing him mercifully, actually, because he only had a debit card to pay for things. And I didn't even know that the UK was completely different.

• 1:07:06Jay Shetty?

  No, there's there are credit cards, but it's not.

• 1:07:08Codie Sanchez?

  He said, it's not normal. I was like, you're a 28 year old man. You don't have a credit card? And he was like, you need to travel more, Cody. And I was like, sorry. But then we got him a credit card so he could start establishing credit here. But moral of the story is, here's, I think, the couple first steps to financial freedom. You know, if you want to set up your kid for success, you actually want them to get a credit card really early. Does it so much matter what type of credit card? I'm not like the points guy where I like to operationalize and optimize every aspect of a credit card. I think that is almost more work than trying to make more money. But I think if you go from any of the major banks, there are a lot of rules around credit cards. So they're really not allowed to mess with you so much on interest rates. There's a lot of protections for consumers. So don't stress too much about which one. Which one seems like it has some nice perks for you? And you can get the most amount of money that you need.

• 1:07:53Codie Sanchez?

  Cool. So that's step one. And if you can do that for your kids when they're in high school, they will actually have more access to the first pillar, I think, of wealth, which is resources. We all know, what's the saying? Takes money to make money. Right? And so if you come from nothing, well, you can start actually building up your resource pile just from your credit, which you can start at a young age. You don't need to be rich to do that. And then after resources, you pile on knowledge. Right? The rich pass on how to invest. We need to start doing that to our next generation. Then you pass on wealth accumulation. That's where you start to pile on your own money. And then finally, you pass on, you know, the ability to invest, to continue to move cyclically your money around and make it work for you. But that's where I would start. It's like you start with a credit card.

• 1:08:36Codie Sanchez?

  You have a debit card really just because you want to get cash out sometimes if you go into the club and buy drinks or whatever people do these days that are cooler than me. And that's where I would start. And then I would move to this next level of, okay, if I have some credit, now we need to focus on earning. So how do I make more money? And, but I think most people skip that first step because credit is scary. And like, listen, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, obviously very famous dude. But he has a line I love, which is, "Men only go broke by three things." And it's whiskey, women, and leverage. And leverage means debt, right? Warren Buffett gave him a little adage to it at the end. And he goes, "I think actually what my friend meant to say was it's really just the last one. It's really just leverage."

• 1:09:21Codie Sanchez?

  And Warren Buffett, one of the richest guys in the world, said he doesn't like debt. But here's the problem, Jay. He's highly levered. He has a massive amount of debt. Why? Because he has debt on assets and other people's things as opposed to personal guarantees on his own. He's not mortgaging his house to buy these companies. He is raising debt on a company in order for it to make more money. And so if you don't understand all that right now, that's where I want you to dive in a little bit more. Maybe you can start with a debit and a credit card.

• 1:09:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I think it's so important to understand debt. And you see that when you see a celebrity buy a new home. And you realize they borrowed to buy that home. They didn't buy it in cash, even though they have the cash and it's available to them. And I think that idea is so foreign. If someone's thinking about starting a business right now or wants to grow a business and the number one thing you hear is, well, I don't have any money. I don't know how to fund it. How much do you actually need to start a business?

• 1:10:17Codie Sanchez?

  I think you never suffer from a lack of money. You suffer from a lack of knowledge on how to get money. The richest people in the world, they never use their own money entirely to buy things. And if you can like sit on that for a second and let that sit in, then I think you can really open up your eyes to the fact that all around you, there are deals right now. And there is money that is waiting for the actually rarest of things, which is a human who wants to work really hard and has a good idea where to put the money. And so you actually don't need money to start a business. I don't think you need it at all. What you need is some access to it. And so, you know, next week I'm going to the SBA, the Small Business Administration. And they just ran out all of these new programs for new business owners where they will, one, do grants where they give you money.

• 1:11:00Codie Sanchez?

  And grant means you take this money, you don't have to give it back. The government is going to give it to you, maybe because you're a minority or a woman or have a core needs business. They also do a ton of loans, you know, they'll loan you 90% of the purchase price of a business if you need one. And all around us are also people who want to invest. And so like there's a website called Percent. And on Percent, if you have a small business and you need some debt for a small business, you can actually get debt from your small business through a website. But I think the most important part is not just tactically, it's like, can I change my belief to believe that money is all around me and I do not need to have only my own money in order to get rich? And I want more people to think that way. It's hard. I get it.

• 1:11:43Jay Shetty?

  Do you think everyone needs a side hustle right now?

• 1:11:45Codie Sanchez?

  I have two thoughts. One, I do not believe that you have to go all in on the thing that you want to do in life. I think that is told to you by people who had survivorship bias, like it worked for me, so it's going to work for you. And what do we know to be true? 90% of startups fail over any five year period. And so I actually think that the way to never have risk in building a business, if you want to do a startup and have no risk, I think. You keep your job, you do really well at that job while you're doing it. You use your salary to fund your side hustle or your next venture. You keep moving forward on it until your side hustle matches the cost of living that you have, your cash flow, and then you leave your business or your job to go start your business once you have enough money from inflow of the business.

• 1:12:30Codie Sanchez?

  And I think we've told too many people and idealized this idea of entrepreneurship, when in fact, you know, I had three or four businesses fail. If I had just left my job that paid me good money, I would have been sleeping on somebody's couch. And so you can have a side hustle, but please keep it on the side for a minute until you make sure it's not just a passion project, it is a profit project.

• 1:12:53Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yeah, and I think that's the smartest, wisest advice. I'm in the same boat. When I started doing what I do today, I had a full-time job. It didn't pay great, but it paid enough to get by. It paid my bills. It means, it means I wasn't creating from a place of stress. And when you're creating something new from just stress, it can be quite debilitating. Now, sometimes stress can be the greatest motivator. It can propel you, it can be your launchpad, but you've got to kind of get it right. Too much stress and you fall apart, too little stress and you stay in the golden handcuffs.

• 1:13:26Codie Sanchez?

  That's right.

• 1:13:27Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's where I see a lot of people stuck today is I meet a lot of people who I feel have tied on the golden handcuffs, but not using that as the investment. So it's like, I want to have a lifestyle with the money I make. I don't want to use it to build a new life. The key takeaway here is that access and education, not just effort, create opportunity. Taking the time to understand resources and systems allows us to leverage them effectively and take control of our financial futures. Novak Djokovic reflects on the delicate balance of stress, motivation, and purpose. Even after reaching the pinnacle of tennis, he emphasizes that growth comes from passion, self-awareness, and the desire to inspire others.

• 1:14:10Jay Shetty?

  And if you've ever felt weighed down by pressure, his perspective shows how it can become a launchpad rather than a trap. Do you feel like in your career, you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

• 1:14:23Novak Djokovic?

  Uh, yes, and more than that. And at the same time, I still wanna do more. And I know that that comes in a big part from a good place. Meaning from a place of purpose, inspiration, motivation, love for the sport, passion for the sport. Passion to make people happy when they watch me if I'm doing that. And I have a feeling that I am by still actively being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career, active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing tennis and inspiring younger generations. That's something that that comes from a good place. But what comes from maybe, uh, let's say, not necessarily bad place, but less of a good place.

• 1:15:08Novak Djokovic?

  I have identified that as well is my feeling of not being enough. And that goes back to my very, very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with my father. And not being, not doing enough, not being good enough, et cetera, et cetera. So now that I'm talking about it, I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me. And it's kind of the battle that I also go through often. Because a lot of people, even closest people in my life, ask me, you know, what more do you want? You know, you have achieved everything. What do you want? Why do you keep going?

• 1:15:49Novak Djokovic?

  And I tell them the good part that I told you, that I still really strongly feel it's inside of me. And I feel like as long as I have the capacity or ability to compete for the biggest titles in my sport, I wanna keep going. And also partly the part that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going is to test my limits mentally and physically. Because when I was starting to break through into professional tennis. I remember when you reach your thirty, you start counting your days to your retirement. Like after thirty, you know, that's it, pretty much. Even though there were some exceptions, like Jimmy Connors, the legend of our game, he played,

• 1:16:32Novak Djokovic?

  I think semifinals or finals of US Open when he was forty, you know, still dominating the tour. So there were very, but very few exceptions. Nowadays, it's different. Why? Because I think the care for the body has improved so much. I mean, now, not only top ten or fifteen guys or girls on the tour have, like, multiple people in their squad to take care of them. You have top fifty people that are taking care of them. It's due to the improvement, of course, of the conditions for the players and, you know, we earn more across the board, so it gives you, it allows you to hire more people

• 1:17:14Novak Djokovic?

  that would take care of your body. And I think that it's also a kind of a curiosity from my side. How, how far can I go? You know, I'm thirty-eight this year. You know, how long can I push my own limits? And I don't feel like I do have limits. And I feel like the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I've seen the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other day, and then he talked about, you know, he's, by a lot of people's opinion, very extreme. But, you know, he dedicated his own entire life to getting the data and understanding what are the best conditions for the longest living life that he can have for himself,

• 1:17:56Novak Djokovic?

  which I think is something that is admirable and, you know, I give him huge credit for that. And I understand, because as a professional athlete, you know, the care for your body and your mind and the devotion to the daily habits is so tough, because...

• 1:18:14Novak Djokovic?

  When you wanna change a certain habit, science says it takes at least twenty one days, right? For the brain to start growing, you know, new neurons that are reprogramming. But if you don't have the right environment, that's going to be very, very challenging. So that was also one of the things that I wanted to reflect on. And your question is, the environment is the one that can be very stimulative to you, it can be really supportive, or it can be pulling you down. So it's super important, even though we, we always encourage ourselves to be independent in terms of what we do, what we eat, how we sleep, you know, how we lead our lives and what we do and how we can live the best version of our lives possible.

• 1:18:59Novak Djokovic?

  But at the same time, we are social beings. We are very tribal beings. And even if it's the smallest community, we still wanna belong to that community. We still want this community to support us, even if it's one person or two. But it's super important, in the end of the day, because, you know, making tough choices, these are tough choices, because society, when you go out there, you know, super majority of the places where you go to eat, or people that you see, it's a kind of a vicious cycle and they lead their life in a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide or correspond to your choices that you wanna make, the new choices, or maybe the new changes. So it's really hard, you know what I mean? Living in the, in the big city and deciding you wanna go through a transformational journey

• 1:19:42Novak Djokovic?

  on a daily basis, where being exposed to, to something that is contrary to what you're trying to achieve. I feel like it's, it's reinventing yourself constantly, you know? For me, I've had this kind of upbringing, had a great foundation, and, you know, I've achieved incredible things. I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion. And that was my dream. I achieved that dream within two days. I won Wimbledon and at the same day became number one in the world in two thousand and eleven. In front of my family, in front of president of Serbia who was there, I mean, it was with the welcoming of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back. It's just, you know, once in a lifetime type of experience.

• 1:20:25Novak Djokovic?

  And when you do something for the first time, obviously that big, it's just like you're you're flying to the moon. I mean, you're not, you, it's a kind of an out of body experience. But then I, I felt like I had to set new goals. And because I was, you know, at, at the time, two thousand and eleven, I was twenty-three years old, twenty-four, so, okay, what do I do next? You know, I feel like I'm at, you know, peak of my powers and I want it. So, so then I want to win multiple slams, then I want to win all slams at once, then I want to win gold medal for my country, then I want to make history. And so forth, so forth. So I think goal oriented mind, particularly in sports, but I, I also in business or anything, really. I think it's super important because the clarity in, from my experience

• 1:21:09Novak Djokovic?

  is something that is essential to have also peace of mind and to have a calm heart. That you know what you're doing and that you set your goals, your short term goals, your long term goals, and you know exactly the strategy that you need to implement to achieve them. And you surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but also people who are telling you what you don't want to hear. You know, giving you constructive criticism or maybe giving you non-constructive criticism and then putting you very down, but that's also part of the journey. It's also learning how to get up. Like a phoenix and rise and, and, and try to develop a thick skin, so to say. So it's, it's a constant process. Really, I, I don't see myself

• 1:21:53Novak Djokovic?

  fully satisfied, if, if that's maybe a shorter answer, because I have that part of me which is like. You know, I think I can still do more. But the other side of me is like, of course, I'm happy and I'm proud. And in a way, I can't wait one day for me to reflect on everything. But while I'm steering my active career, I don't have time. Tennis has the longest season of all sports. January, starts January, ends almost end of November. And of course, I earned my right in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play. So that's what I'm doing. I'm not playing as much, focusing on the big ones. And I'm trying to incorporate all these other things inside of my career.

• 1:22:37Novak Djokovic?

  And basically expand the platform and use my voice for other things than just the tennis court. And I'm, you know, super blessed to be in the position that I am. But as I said, it's a constant journey and process.

• 1:22:51Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that purpose driven effort transforms challenges into growth. Whether in sport or life, aligning motivation with passion and community allows us to turn pressure into performance and inspiration. Merle Robbins teaches us about the power of our attention, energy and boundaries. By letting go of the need to control others' perceptions, we reclaim our own agency and how these small intentional choices in work, relationships and self-expression create meaningful change. It's so interesting how we think love is over caring.

• 1:23:27Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 1:23:27Jay Shetty?

  But actually, over caring is over enabling that person and overwhelming that person.

• 1:23:32Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and it's control.

• 1:23:34Jay Shetty?

  It's control.

• 1:23:35Mel Robbins?

  You're not like, if you think about what love really is. And for me, love is two things. It's consideration, right? It's having someone in mind. If you pour in oat milk instead of the cow milk, because that's what they like, that's an act of love. It's also admiration. And admiration is the ability to see something in somebody that you deeply admire. I want to go back to something that you said, though, because it was genius. And it had me think about the idea of the power of your time and energy.

• 1:24:15Mel Robbins?

  And you were talking about, imagine if like your time and your energy had dollars associated with it. Because I don't think we value it. And I started to think about one of the biggest obstacles. Because what's ultimately happening when you start to use let them and let me is you're going to see that you've turned other people into a major problem. And you have turned them into a problem in four ways. First of all, you allow them to stress you out, but you're not going to do that anymore because you're going to let them be. But the second way that you've made them a major problem in your life is that you give so much weight to other people's opinions. And in the example you were just talking about,

• 1:24:59Mel Robbins?

  what was happening is by asking you, what do you think? Roddy was doing what we all do. But most of us do it subconsciously and we don't even realize it. Which is before we even ask ourselves what feels right for us, we stop and consider what we think somebody's going to think. And you have that like really brilliant thing that I've heard you say a bazillion times that I love. It's not what you think, you think a think. And I'm like, wait, what? But, but so I want to play this out because this is so important, was a huge thing for me. If you open up your favorite social media platform, we've all had the experience where you go and you pick a photo. And you then put it up. And you're like, okay, should I put a filter on this? And you start to then question, is this the right photo?

• 1:25:45Mel Robbins?

  And then you go back to your photo roll. And then you start working on the caption. Should I put emoji? Is this too much? Should I do this? And then you are worried, why?

• 1:25:54Mel Robbins?

  Because you're actually thinking about what other people are going to think or do in response to what you're posting.

• 1:26:01Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:26:02Mel Robbins?

  Which means if you take the value of it, right? You just overvalued something that you will never be able to control, ever. Ever, ever, ever. And yet you're doing it subconsciously. And what typically happens is if you notice, everybody's got hundreds of draft posts.

• 1:26:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Mel Robbins?

  You know what that is?

• 1:26:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:23Mel Robbins?

  That is a graveyard of energy you wasted.

• 1:26:25Jay Shetty?

  Oh, so good.

• 1:26:26Mel Robbins?

  On something that you didn't, you'll never be able to control. Because the average person has 70,000 random thoughts a day. You can't even control half the crap that goes in your own mind. So what makes you think any post is going to guarantee that any human being thinks anything? And the let them theory revealed to me, Jay, how often I was subconsciously valuing.

• 1:26:49Jay Shetty?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:26:50Mel Robbins?

  Someone else and that like, are they going to think negative? Are they going to think this? Is it going to think too much? And there's such a simple way to change this. You just let them think negative thoughts. That's it. The next time you catch yourself stopping to consider what you're going to post or what your colleagues might react to, and that's what's keeping you silent, say to yourself, let them think negative thoughts. Because that's what you're actually afraid of.

• 1:27:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:16Mel Robbins?

  And so when you say, let them think negative thoughts, something wild happens. You accept the reality that no matter what you do, it doesn't guarantee that anybody thinks anything.

• 1:27:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:28Mel Robbins?

  And then you say, let me. And here's where this gets really cool. Let me remind myself, I can think what I want and I can do what I want. And your social media in particular, as you and I both know, it's your self-expression. That's what it's there for. And if you can't allow yourself to express yourself there.

• 1:27:49Mel Robbins?

  Then it's going to be everywhere where you edit yourself because you're not just letting people think negative thoughts.

• 1:27:55Jay Shetty?

  For sure.

• 1:27:56Mel Robbins?

  But if you operate in a way now and you now take the value, you take the money back. We're not going to pay Jay the money for his opinion. I'm going to take the money back and where I'm going to put the value is operating in a way that makes me feel proud of myself. Because when I operate in a way, whether I'm posting something, or I'm speaking in a meeting, or I'm showing up and not responding to my dramatic whatever, I'm proud of myself. And when you're proud of yourself, you don't even consider what other people are thinking. Because you've just anchored all of your worth inside of yourself.

• 1:28:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:33Mel Robbins?

  And that's why, this is another reason why this is so unbelievably powerful.

• 1:28:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and the truth is, no one's thinking about you for as long as you think.

• 1:28:42Mel Robbins?

  It's true.

• 1:28:42Jay Shetty?

  No one's thinking about you for as much as you think. No one's thinking about you as much as they even say they're thinking about you. And we just, like you said, we keep draining that energy, consumed by it. You reminded me of the beautiful Charles Horton Cooley quote, and he wrote this in 1890. And he said, "The challenge today is, I'm not what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am." Which means, we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. So if I think Mel thinks I'm not smart, then I don't think I'm smart.

• 1:29:18Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 1:29:18Jay Shetty?

  So it's not even reality, it's not even

• 1:29:20Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 1:29:20Jay Shetty?

  factually proven or checked or tested. By the way, everything in the Let Them Theory, this book, is literally every thought, those 70,000 thoughts, that's what you're addressing in this book.

• 1:29:30Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and Let Them, two words gets rid of the fear.

• 1:29:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Mel Robbins?

  It literally does.

• 1:29:34Jay Shetty?

  Because I was talking, I've talked to at least three friends this week, and all of them are concerned by either, "Hey Jay, I'm thinking about posting a video on social media, I'm scared of what people will think." So that's for their professional or their passion.

• 1:29:47Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 1:29:48Jay Shetty?

  I've got another friend who's worried that a lot of our other friends are talking about him negatively

• 1:29:53Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 1:29:53Jay Shetty?

  because he's recently fallen out with them.

• 1:29:55Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 1:29:56Jay Shetty?

  And so he's worried, like, what are they saying? They're all talking to each other? What rumors are they spreading about me? Like, maybe it's not true. And the thing that they're holding on to is they just can't let, they can't let them.

• 1:30:08Mel Robbins?

  No, but they can.

• 1:30:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:10Mel Robbins?

  See, I don't think they have the tool.

• 1:30:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:12Mel Robbins?

  See, here's the thing. If you're worried that people are gossiping about you, let them. Let them gossip about you. Here's why. You can't control it.

• 1:30:20Jay Shetty?

  It's gonna happen anyway.

• 1:30:21Mel Robbins?

  Yes. And so if you can't control it, why on earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted?

• 1:30:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Mel Robbins?

  It's an act of self-torture. So if you are worried that people are gossiping about you, first of all, let them gossip about you.

• 1:30:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:40Mel Robbins?

  Because they're going to do what they're going to do, because you cannot change what other people do. You can't control what they think, you can't control what they do. If they're gonna gossip, they're gonna gossip. So let them gossip. And when you say that, it's a relief, because you actually acknowledge the thing that you've been afraid of, and it's like you're allowing it without allowing it. But then don't forget, you have power.

• 1:30:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:00Mel Robbins?

  Let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself. I get to decide what I do.

• 1:31:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Mel Robbins?

  And what I don't do, whether or not I respond or not. And I get to decide who I spend time with. And so the bigger question becomes, if you're busy worrying about, which means you're expending time and energy, people who are gossiping about you, why would you wanna be friends with them?

• 1:31:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Mel Robbins?

  And so now you take responsibility for your own part in chasing people that aren't treating you in a way that you deserve.

• 1:31:41Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:31:42Mel Robbins?

  And you recognize that the power here is in just letting people be. And when you let people be, your relationships get better, because people reveal who they are and where you stand, and then you get to choose how much time you spend or not.

• 1:31:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Mel Robbins?

  And not everybody in your life deserves an explanation.

• 1:32:01Mel Robbins?

  They don't deserve a response necessarily. And so you also get to choose who you tell your story to, or who you apologize to, or who, how you respond to it. And that's where your power is. And I'm not saying this makes it easy. Because you're probably in a situation like that, gonna have to say, let them, let them, let them. And then you're gonna see them on social media, and you're gonna be like, should I block them? Should I not block them? Are they gonna see if I do that? Should they not gonna? Let them, let them to their lives. And if I want to unfollow them, let me do that. Because I get to choose what comes into my space or not.

• 1:32:37Jay Shetty?

  The key takeaway here is that your time, energy, and focus are valuable. Protect them, use them intentionally, and don't let external validation dictate your actions. Once you make that shift, then you make space for freedom, growth, and fulfillment to grow from within. As we close this episode and this year, remember this. Life is not about perfection, it's about presence. Growth is not linear, but every moment, struggle, draw your reflection, is a step forward. The lessons are clear. Embrace failure as a starting point. Show up authentically in your relationships and life. Give yourself time to heal and grow. Protect your energy, attention, and focus. Pursue your purpose with passion and courage.

• 1:33:22Jay Shetty?

  The past year has shaped us, challenged us, and reminded us of what matters. As we move forward, carry these lessons into your next chapter. You're capable, you're growing, and your life is a canvas to become your best self. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you want to be more and achieve more this year, go check it out right now.

• 1:33:54Speaker 13

  You set a goal today. You achieve it in six months. And then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief. There's no sense of meaning and purpose. You sort of expected it, and you would have been disappointed if it didn't happen.

• 1:34:05Speaker 14

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.