Khloé Kardashian: My Side that Nobody Knows (Truth Behind Headlines, Divorce, Co-Parenting)

Have you ever been seen in a way that didn’t feel true to who you are? Who do you feel truly sees you for who you are? Today, Jay sits down once again with the incredible Khloé Kardashian to talk about growth, healing, and what it really means to evolve on your own terms. It’s been six years since Khloé first sat down with Jay, and a lot has changed. Now in her 40s, Khloé reflects on the defining moments of her 30s, the clarity she’s found in this new chapter, and how her journey has shaped the woman she is today In this honest and heartfelt conversation, Khloé opens up about what it really took to move through heartbreak, public judgment, and her own self-doubt. She shares how she learned to forgive herself, let go of shame, and step into a deeper sense of self-awareness. Khloé talks about navigating the pressures around motherhood, relationships, and success — and how therapy, journaling, and her unwavering faith helped her rediscover her worth and inner peace. Jay and Khloé also dive into what it looks like to slow down, make room for solitude, and intentionally choose joy. She offers a glimpse into her daily routines, the spiritual practices that ground her, and how she’s creating a loving, mindful environment for her children, one rooted not in perfection, but in presence and authenticity. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Set Emotional Boundaries Without Losing Your Kindness How to Forgive Yourself and Heal from Past Mistakes How to Use Solitude as a Tool for Self-Discovery How to Stop Comparing Your Journey to Others How to Build Emotional Resilience After Betrayal How to Raise Emotionally Aware and Grounded Children How to Find Peace Through Faith and Daily Rituals Through her candid storytelling and unwavering humility, Khloé offers hope, wisdom, and an empowering message of self-acceptance to anyone navigating their own inner transformation. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Join Jay for his first ever, On Purpose Live Tour! Tickets are on sale now. Hope to see you there! What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:33 Aging Doesn’t Have to Be Scary 05:17 Visualizing Your Life in Your 40s 06:23 It’s Okay to Be Unsure 07:39 How Maturity Brings Stability 09:35 Why We’re Always Chasing More 12:09 The Truth About Success 13:55 Practice Self-Intentionality 16:42 Stop Letting Validation Control You 19:47 Balancing Accountability and Forgiveness 21:42 Learn to Be Patient with Yourself 23:10 Everyone Learns on Their Own Timeline 24:30 A Path to Self-Forgiveness 27:20 When You Might Be the Problem 29:24 You Are Not Your Mistakes 31:39 The Work Only You Can Do 36:00 Rewiring a Negative Mindset 38:18 Why Therapy Can Be Transformative 41:11 Finding the Courage to Trust Again 43:17 Getting Comfortable with Being Vulnerable 46:19 It’s Brave to Let Yourself Cry 48:28 Understanding Your Love Language 52:02 We All Love Differently 54:21 The Beauty of Giving Love 55:31 Reuniting with Lamar After 9 Years 59:51 Leaving What No Longer Serves You 01:03:46 Releasing Residual Negativity 01:05:15 Why We All Need Empathy 01:09:04 What I Want My Kids to Remember 01:11:35 Why Kids Don’t Need the Internet 01:14:24 Dating as a Mom in Your 40s 01:15:28 How to Date More Intentionally 01:17:31 Embracing Alone Time 01:19:05 Leaning Into the Discomfort Episode Resources: Khloé Kardashian | Instagram Khloé Kardashian | X Khloé Kardashian | YouTube Khloud Foods Khloé in Wonder Land See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:26Jay Shetty?

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• 1:56Jay Shetty?

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• 2:39Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty and I'm thrilled to announce my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can experience on purpose, in person. Join me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth, spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to meet you. There are a limited number of VIP experiences for a private Q and A, intimate meditation, and a meet and greet with photos. Tickets are on sale now. Head to jayshetty.me/tour and get yours today.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  God, I've been through so many things that at this point I would rather not feel than feel because feeling is too much for me to handle.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  All right, we're ready. I am Khloe Kardashian. Khloe Kardashian, everybody. Khloe Kardashian.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  There would be times that I was like, I don't even want to go out to the grocery store because I feel like I know what they're thinking about me. And that was scary to me because I've never been in a dark place for that long.

• 3:54Jay Shetty?

  You've always taken care of others. Have you discovered anything about why you've seen yourself take on that role in so many relationships in your life? How do you even find the courage to trust again?

• 4:10Speaker 03

  The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. He won, the only Jay Shetty.

• 4:18Jay Shetty?

  Chloé, bienvenue à On Purpose.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Je suis si heureuse d'être ici.

• 4:24Jay Shetty?

  Vous êtes arrivée sur le podcast en 2019.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  C'est fou.

• 4:28Jay Shetty?

  C'est six ans.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Oui.

• 4:29Jay Shetty?

  Nous avons commencé à l'origine de cette année et vous avez été une partie importante pour aider le show à arriver à ce qu'il est aujourd'hui.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Merci.

• 4:38Jay Shetty?

  Donc, les mots que vous m'avez dit une seconde plus tôt sur le show sont beaucoup à cause de vous.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Merci.

• 4:45Jay Shetty?

  Et je suis très reconnaissante à vous, à votre belle famille qui ont été si gentilles à moi au cours des années. Votre mère, que j'adore. Kendall et Kim, qui ont tous été des guests incroyables sur le show et des gens avec qui je peux passer du temps hors de la scène. Et c'est juste, vous avez tous été si merveilleux pour moi. Donc, je suis profondément reconnaissante et touchée par vous.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Nous vous aimons tous. Nous le faisons vraiment. Et vous avez cette énergie dans vous que tout le monde se sent sûr de parler avec vous. Et c'est un testament à la réussite de votre podcast, évidemment. Mais tout ce que vous faites, c'est si intense de votre âme. Et c'est beau. Et vous ne vous dites même pas que vous êtes enregistré quand vous parlez avec vous. Donc oui, je suis si honorée d'être demandée de venir ici encore.

• 5:28Jay Shetty?

  Merci. Et la dernière fois que nous étions ensemble, nous étions sur votre podcast.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Oui.

• 5:31Jay Shetty?

  Ce qui m'est si heureuse. Je ne peux pas attendre de parler plus de ça.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Je ne peux même pas croire que vous... Oui, je suis si reconnaissante que vous avez accepté de le faire. Mais vous êtes ma deuxième invitée. Et le fait que vous l'avez fait et que vous l'avez fait juste... Oui, bien sûr. Vous ne posez jamais de questions. Je pense que c'est nouveau. Nous ne l'avons jamais lancé ou écouté. Merci. Vous êtes si généreux et si gentil.

• 5:51Jay Shetty?

  Oui, j'ai adoré. C'était si sympa de parler avec vous et de vous utiliser votre plateforme pour parler de sujets importants et de thèmes et de la vulnérabilité. Et mon préféré est que nous étions en Inde juste autour de cette... Comme si on arrivait cette année-là.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Oui.

• 6:05Jay Shetty?

  Et être avec vous en Inde et prendre vous au monastère où j'ai été un moment.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Quelle expérience.

• 6:11Jay Shetty?

  C'était si beau d'avoir ça avec vous. Et merci de m'avoir laissé avoir cette expérience avec vous aussi.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Et je ne sais pas quand ça sort, mais... The India episode for us, I think, airs next week. So people are going to get to see that insight and see a little bit of where you practiced and just what a beautiful experience that was for us.

• 6:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you both were so gracious and kind and curious. And I was so in awe of just how wonderfully respectful and thoughtful and

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 6:38Jay Shetty?

  And the fact that we were on a crazy schedule at a crazy wedding and you guys somehow managed to wake up to go to a temple. It's pretty impressive.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  That was such, we could not miss that opportunity, especially to go with you. I mean, to where you practice, I mean, that still, that's a pinch me moment.

• 6:54Jay Shetty?

  You're the best. Well, Chloe, this week on the episode, when we're recording this at least, it's your 40th birthday and that was soon after you got back from India last year.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:04Jay Shetty?

  And I wanted to ask you, like, what it felt like turning 40?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I know so many people dread turning 40 or just getting older. And I am the complete opposite. I probably talked about my excitement in turning 40 for at least three years prior to turning 40. You know, my 30s were challenging for me as I really do think when I reflect back that they are challenging for most people. I think your 30s is that, especially for women, because that's sort of when people feel like, oh, their biological clock is ticking. They should be married or have kids by this age. And the truth is, people are getting married a little later. They are having kids later in life. And a lot of women are focusing on what their careers should be. And so they're sort of putting the family stuff on the back burner.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  At least that's what I've noticed.

• 7:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  And for me, I had my kids. I had not so many great relationships in my 30s and in my younger 20s. And but a lot of career stuff wasn't going the way that I envisioned and hoped and planned. And I really just wanted to get out of my 30s. I was like, I feel good. I have my kids.

• 8:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  And that's my wonderful, beautiful takeaway. And and still, I also do believe that any of those experiences, they really are formative. And no matter how traumatic and horrible they are. You don't think that in the moment, but later on you do get to self reflect and be like, okay, I needed that for some reason. But going into my 40s, I was skipping and leaping and hopping into them.

• 8:40Jay Shetty?

  How did you imagine your 40s were going to look when you were younger? And now that you're moving into them, how close are they? How different are those visions?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  So I don't know if you've ever seen this meme, but it's a meme of the Golden Girls. And I think those ladies were in their 40s or early 50s when they're ushered away somewhere in Florida, you know, have to live together because they're so old. And then they do side by sides with like a bunch of women in their 40s now, beautiful women. And the comparison, you're like, why was I so afraid? But the representation that we had when we were younger was very different than what the 40s are or 50s now. I mean, Gabrielle Union, I don't exactly know how old everybody is, but Jennifer Lopez, you see all of these gorgeous women and you're like, wait, I think they're 40s, 50s.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  What am I afraid of? And it's not so much even about the aesthetic. It's the liveliness that these women and the passion that these women have for life that you're like, that doesn't seem so bad.

• 9:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I think you're so right. What you just said now about how everyone has a tough 30s to 40s. I think it's really interesting. When you're going in your 20s to 30s, you have a really high expectation and then you kind of get brought down to reality. I think everyone has a tougher 20s than they imagined. You're having

• 10:04Speaker 01

  The pressure.

• 10:05Jay Shetty?

  The pressure of what it should be.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:07Jay Shetty?

  The pressure of starting work, the pressure of a relationship.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  But you put these kids in college and they're supposed to, what is your major? What is your minor? And then if you go awry from that when you graduate, it's like, then what did I pay for? But how many times have you changed your mind about something in life? Right. And so have I. So yes, I believe in college. I believe in that if that's the right step for you. But I also think it's people need to know how okay it is to not necessarily know what you want to do when you're Twenty years old.

• 10:41Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Such great advice. I mean, I look at it in my twenties, I first became a monk. I then left and worked in consulting. I then left and did media. And then since then, I've done video content, podcasts, wrote books.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:55Jay Shetty?

  Just things that I would never have imagined if someone told me at eighteen, Jay, this is what your life's going to look like. I wouldn't have believed them.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:02Jay Shetty?

  And I think something you said that was really important, that when you get into your thirties, there's almost like this grounding effect as well, where you start to ask yourself, what do I really want in life? As you get into your forties, you're almost living that of like, what's really important? What, what really is my priority? Am I clear about what I want? Whereas in your twenties, you don't know and you, how could you?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  You don't know and you also have that arrogance in your twenties that no one can tell you anything.

• 11:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  But people have to go through that. Like, I don't, I get it. And I also get now when adults were like, oh, they sort of roll their eyes at somebody in their twenties. And it's rare that most people in that age are so definitive at what they want to do. And if they are, great. And I, that is just this old soul-ness in them, I would say. But also when I've, I've only been in my forties for a few months. But it's crazy how quickly that you're sort of like, you feel so solid in who you are or the things that maybe made you insecure or doubt yourself. You sort of just let it go.

• 12:05Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  And I don't know what that switch exactly is. I just know that it's that grounding term that you said, you feel so solid within yourself. And you're like, it's okay. And I know life is going to work out. I know everything is going to come how I envision it, because I have that drive and desire to. But I've stopped limiting myself to, it had to be done before I turned forty.

• 12:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  When I was younger, society definitely put on me, or not just me, I think a lot of people. But now life expectancy is longer. I think we prioritize our health from within so much more. And people realize, okay, it's not all about just. Having babies and getting married by the time you're 23 and then just coasting the rest or figuring it out. Now it's like, let's figure out what we really want at our core. And then the rest will sort of unfold.

• 12:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What would you say? Because I feel like we have such an amazing community of young women and women who listen to this show. And so many of them I know are thinking, Jim, 30 years old, I'm not married. There's so much pressure. I'm not in a serious relationship. What words of advice, wisdom, insight, or lessons would you share with them in that period of their life where the societal pressure, the parental pressure, the personal pressure, the pressure of what's happening all around them on Instagram, TikTok, social media? How should they think about navigating that?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Number one, it's something I had to learn myself is comparison is the thief of joy. It takes everything out of anything that you're doing. If you're constantly comparing what you're doing to somebody else, because somebody else is only showing you their highlight reel anyway. We have to remember that what we're doing is probably someone's looking at us and they're like, damn, that's an amazing highlight reel. Like, I want that. But we're so conditioned now to constantly want more and more and never be satisfied. That makes me sad for my kids and I always try. I have so many nieces and nephews and three of them are the exact same age. It's my daughter and Kylie's daughter and Kim's

• 14:16Speaker 01

  daughter. And sometimes that's challenging because they each want the same thing all the time. And I, I sort of like that because I like to say like, not just because someone has that doesn't mean you get to have that. And those are smaller lessons, but you learn that later in life so much bigger. And you can be inspired by others or motivated by others, but the jealousy or the comparison is something that we or I have had to even retrain my brain to not always look at someone and be like, well, why don't I have that? Or how can I get? Like, it should be more from a motivational way as opposed to an envious way. But I also think, do you want to be married and have kids because that's what you were taught as a kid that you're supposed to do?

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Do you want that and a career? And which one do you want to have come first? And do you not want a career? And do you just want to be a mother? Like those, whatever the answer is, is all okay. Because it's your life. But sometimes I think that we live a life so much for other people. And we forget to check in with ourselves. And it's okay if you had a desire in your twenties. And now you're in your thirties. You're like, wait, I actually don't want that anymore. And I changed my direction. And it's okay to admit that to yourselves.

• 15:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think you've raised so many important points there. One of them that resonates with me is I always say to people, the only way you can purify envy is study. What I mean by that is when you study someone's success, you get motivated by it. When you envy someone's success, you get demotivated by it.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:48Jay Shetty?

  Because you feel it's not for me. I'm not going to get that. When you study it, when you look at how they started, when you look at the challenges they've gone through, when you look at the ups and the downs, all of a sudden you realize you get so much inspiration.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:00Jay Shetty?

  That I can do it too. Right? That that person's had a very normal human journey. And maybe I just don't see that because I'm only seeing the success. I'm not seeing the story.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  And I think I get a very interesting take on that because I do that with me and my sisters. And so when I look at all of my siblings, I know so in depthly also their struggles and how many, how many companies we've all started that have failed. Where so many people that you look up to, you don't hear every little thing until they're at the top. And then they're telling you this was how they got here. Their success story. And sometimes you're like, okay, but you're here now and it still seems unobtainable. But for me, I do get, I'm very lucky for my positioning. Because even though I see my siblings and I see all their success now,

• 16:53Speaker 01

  I remember how much stuff we tried to do and, you know, throw spaghetti on the wall and it just didn't stick. But I don't know if outsiders would see that looking within our family all the time. I think if you can, you know, go back and Google back 2008, whatever, you'll be like, oh, they did that. And where's that company? And so everyone has their. Failures, but I wouldn't even call them failures.

• 17:18Jay Shetty?

  What's the biggest lesson you're taking into your 40s? Something that you've been carrying with you into this time?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  I talk to myself a lot, so I like to be really intentional and I like, I understand and I teach my daughter that happiness and positivity and all of that is a choice. And so what I like to is be very intentional with my days, my jobs, the things that I choose to do and spend time on and not in a like smug sort of way, but I've, I wake up a lot and I'm like, oh, I'm just in either a melancholy mood or I'm woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I'm not a nice person today. And I'll look myself in the mirror and I will have a back and forth talk with myself and I'm like, no, I'm happy today. I'm choosing happy, but so much of that came

• 18:10Speaker 01

  really when I was in my 40s, maybe my last 39th year, because I realized how much of a dark cloud I felt was surrounding me in my 30s. But yes, things happened to me, but it's also my responsibility to choose how I respond to those things. And I think because of social media maybe as well, that I let so much of the noise make me even sadder or make me feel like I was less worthy, less of a person that I needed to be so crumbled and embarrassed about what happened to me. Where yes, I probably would have had those feelings, but maybe not as long as I did. Because that narration was going on for so long. And so I finally was sort of like,

• 18:54Speaker 01

  screw every, every dark noise I'm hearing. And I'm going to say every day, no, I am worthy. I'm worthy of a happy, beautiful, positive day. Being intentional in that way. And it's funny when I wake my kids up every day. I'm like, we're going to have a happy day because we choose to have a happy day. But embedding in them, those small little affirmations, I mean, I'm 40 and I need it. So, you know, I think it's a good thing.

• 19:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I, I couldn't agree with you more. I always say to myself like, I can't make, like the day doesn't have to be great to me, but I can make the day a great day.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:32Jay Shetty?

  Because there could be ups and downs. There could be someone says something, someone could. Be mean to me, someone could cut me off in traffic, someone could do whatever it may be to me, but I get to choose how I respond, I get to choose how I react and it makes such a difference. One of the themes in the show this year has been all of you talking about shedding the burdens of the past. And I think that's such an interesting thing because I think as you get older, you start to notice what you've been carrying with you.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:00Jay Shetty?

  Right? And you've had longer to carry it with you and now you're more aware.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:04Jay Shetty?

  What were some of those things that came up for you and you were like, I think these are things that I've been holding on to that I need to shed. What are some of those burdens?

• 20:12Speaker 01

  I'm not a victim to this, but I do feel like I was in a way victimizing myself. But again, it sort of was more from the outside noise. I hate that I allowed other people to have that much control over the way I viewed myself. But I would say just from my past dating history and a lot of them ended in cheating or there was just, they weren't great situations at the end. But yes, I think even in the most private of times, if that happened and nobody publicly knew about it, there's still shame within your family. You feel embarrassed, like how, you know, what did I do? You, you always make it about yourself and that's okay because hopefully you will get stronger and reflect and not make those same mistakes again.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  And for me, they happened repeatedly and I was like, okay, this is about me. I'm either not paying attention, I'm sweeping something under the rug. Like I really wanted to be so aware of what I was doing and let that go, but let, let the guilt and the shame of that go because I quote, allowed it to happen more than once. And I'm saying that because I didn't allow it to happen, but. The narrative out there was like, well, you get what you get. You know, like, I should have known better. And yes, I probably should have. But I needed to learn that lesson. I know I carried so much shame and guilt where there would be times that I was like,

• 21:42Speaker 01

  I don't even want to go out to the grocery store and look at someone in the eyes because I feel like I know what they're thinking about me. They probably don't know who I am. They probably have never heard this story. But the shame, this cloud that was, I felt, following me everywhere. That I, I don't know if it was even that big to other people, but I definitely felt like I was constantly surrounded by a gray cloud. I would limit myself from doing a lot of things and seeing a lot of people because I was, I felt such shame where I was like intentionally, no, I'm gonna let this go.

• 22:19Jay Shetty?

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• 23:03Jay Shetty?

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• 23:46Jay Shetty?

  There's so much maturity in what you're saying that requires so much. And something I wanna kind of go into with you is this idea of how do we take accountability, but not take full responsibility, right? It's that idea of like, as you said, you can't blame yourself. And at the same time, you had to find a way to recognize you wanted to make better decisions. And I think it's such a fine line. Because I think we go from saying, it's not my fault, it's everyone else's fault.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:19Jay Shetty?

  To the being like, oh, it's all my fault. It's all me. I'm the one to blame. I did this to myself. How did you find that balance, which requires so much thoughtfulness and maturity to actually get to that place where it's like, I'm gonna take accountability to change my life, but I'm also gonna recognize that this happened to me, but it wasn't about me, as you said. How do you get to that?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Well, the interesting part is, I think the very first time it happened, I didn't do that. And that's okay, because it's done.

• 24:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  And I also had to forgive myself for that. There was a time that I was, felt very guilty. Like, why did I even stay? Why, why am I not forgiving myself? I would blame myself for everything. And then the second time, you know, I, my surrogate was still pregnant with Tatum. And the people didn't know yet that I was having Tatum. But I felt such shame that it was happening again, because I knew I knew better.

• 25:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking about the amount of people that are probably listening to you right now, thinking, Chloe, I had that fantasy too. And you had the courage, even though at one point, as you said, you were kind of, why did I stay that long? Or why did I keep doing that? And you had to forgive yourself for that. But I think a lot of people don't know how to know when something's no longer serving them. And as I'm listening to you, I'm listening to someone who's saying, I finally got to a point where I realized this fantasy wasn't serving me. It was keeping me here. We can't speed it up.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:57Jay Shetty?

  We can't rush ourselves to it. You can't be forced to it.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  No, and that's what I mean. I think people also need to be patient with themselves. Like if they don't, if you're not feeling accountable in some of the actions that you're making or some, what someone else is doing to you, that's okay. There will be a day that you will wake up. And listen, if I was watching me when I was in my twenties, I would be judging that person too and being like, she's so stupid. It's gonna happen again. I don't blame people for their judgment. I think with life comes a great wisdom and life experiences. And if my story helped anybody else feel less alone, because it's such an isolating feeling. You feel like you're on this island and it doesn't happen to anybody else. And sadly, it does.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  And I know so many people that stay longer than I did. And not that it's right, but you have to let go when you really feel like you're ready. Or I think that person will always feel like, well, what if and this and I really just like to live my life in this. No, I'm, I'm, I'm solid in that action. I'm solid in that choice that I made.

• 27:09Jay Shetty?

  You're making such a powerful point here and I really want everyone to take it home as they're listening. Like you can only learn on your own timeline. You can't learn on anyone else's. You can't look at someone else's pace and say, oh, I should have done it like that. And

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Why aren't they doing it like this?

• 27:24Jay Shetty?

  Why aren't they doing it like that? And I think we just don't, it's really easy to look at someone else's life, whoever it may be, our friends, our family, people on the screen, and think we know how perfectly they should live. Yet we all know how hard it is to make one decision in our own life. And what I've learned from ever having any training and learning from my spirituality and non judgment was just that everything you judge in someone else.

• 27:55Jay Shetty?

  You won't fully understand until you have to go through it yourself.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  I know.

• 27:58Jay Shetty?

  And as soon as you go through it yourself, you wake up and you go, I cannot believe I judged someone else for how they were navigating a divorce, a breakup, a marriage, whatever it may have been.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  And trust me, I was that person.

• 28:12Jay Shetty?

  All of us.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Yes, when I was younger, I used to, you either read something and you have a comment about it, or one of your friends or family members, and yes, and then you live your life and you go through it and you're like, hmm, okay, I get it a little bit more. Yeah.

• 28:28Jay Shetty?

  How did you learn to forgive yourself? Because I think that is sometimes harder. And if I could say this, just from the moments I've been fortunate enough to spend time with you and connect with you, and thankfully, they've always been very deep. And so even though we haven't spent lots of time together, I feel when we have, it's always been deep time.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:45Jay Shetty?

  It's always a meaningful conversation or an exchange. And as I'm sitting with you here today versus six years ago, the first time, and every time I've seen you in between, I feel you've got more and more peaceful.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 28:58Jay Shetty?

  Just in your presence and who you are. You've always been wonderful and kind, but more and more peaceful in yourself. And what I see is someone who's become a master in forgiveness. Your superpower is your ability to forgive.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 29:11Jay Shetty?

  To forgive others, but even more importantly, yourself. And so I'm really intrigued about your self part, because forgiving other people is one thing, but letting yourself say, hey, I moved at the right time, I moved at the right pace, I don't need to hate on myself and not getting out of it sooner or not seeing it sooner. That requires so much inner forgiveness. Walk us through that.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Gosh, that's a deep one, Jay.

• 29:35Jay Shetty?

  It is.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  It is.

• 29:36Jay Shetty?

  You're the one who's lived it.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  I mean, oh my gosh. Well, I am not always kind to myself. And I think I am my biggest Bully and critic and all of those things at times. And it is much easier for me to forgive others than myself. I will say that forgiving myself has really been more of the last three years of my adult life, but I was so great at giving other people grace, forgiveness, making like not excuses for them, but just like always coming to their defense, no matter how wrong they've done me, because I feel like it's not my place to judge them and I don't know everything they're going through and that type of thing.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And then one day I was like, but why don't I give myself the same energy that I'm giving so freely to other people? And a lot of it comes through my prayer and my relationship with God and just know, like, I really had to also say to myself that this isn't about me. What these people have done, it's not just relationships in so many different levels. And there are times that you feel like, okay, what is it? Why do so many people take advantage or lie, cheat, steal, whatever it is? You can be angry, you can have your feelings, but sometimes you feel like, oh, I, it must be me because it's happened so many times.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  And that's also why I feel like boundaries are so important to set and I never had boundaries before. And I think that was a big thing. But I think a lot of that is releasing it and just knowing that that's not your burden to carry.

• 31:17Jay Shetty?

  I think that's what it is. We start to believe deeply that there's only one problem and that's us.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:27Jay Shetty?

  Right? We walk around thinking that it's all because of me. It's because of my weakness. It's because of my flaws. It's because of whatever else it is. And we completely forget that there's anything else to it.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Well, because then also, if you're like, well, That's not because of me. Like, when people say it also in that way, they're like, well, you know, like, if everyone says that, whatever, then it has to be you too. So there's that fine line.

• 31:54Jay Shetty?

  There is a fine line.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  In that, for sure. But I think when you're just aware and when you're solid in yourself, I really do think it's okay to release those things. And if you are doing the work, if you're, and the work doesn't have to be therapy, like with a actual therapist, if you have a group of friends, and if those people really are unbiased and not judgmental, and you can go to that, do that. For me, I really enjoy writing. It's not for people to see. It's just, it's a form of expression for me, and I feel like I'm really getting this energy out of my system.

• 32:26Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  And sometimes I'll write, and I'm like, I'm tearing this up, so no one ever sees it. And I don't even know what I'm gonna start writing. I'm like, I just gotta get this on from pen to paper. It's such a release. And sometimes that's the quote therapy that I need, or the conversation that I need. A lot of the times, it's the gym, it's whatever. But once I get to that point that I'm like, okay, a light bulb goes off, I'm like, yes, I could have done things differently, but I'm not the reason why this happened to me. Like, there's really no excuse for certain behavior. But yes, I probably could have handled things differently, or saw things differently. But, you know, I think people have to be fair,

• 33:09Speaker 01

  and not just play the victim, but not also play that they're this champion and this crusader. There definitely has to be, there's a good and bad to all of us, if we want to admit it or not.

• 33:22Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. And I think it's that, it's being able to accept that I was weak, but I am not weak, right? There's a difference in that language, even in the way you're speaking about it. There's a difference in, I made a mistake, versus, I am a mistake.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 33:38Jay Shetty?

  And I think as soon as it becomes internalized to believe that, that's who I am. That's who I've always been and I won't be anything else. Then we don't allow ourselves to say, no. It's almost like looking back at an outfit of yours and going, God, I don't know why I was wearing that.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Right. Right.

• 33:54Jay Shetty?

  And you're like, why did I wear that? Like, those two things don't even go together.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:57Jay Shetty?

  But you know you're not your clothes.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:59Jay Shetty?

  So you forgive yourself and you go, okay, that was a bad day. And I'll wear something else today and I can make sure that it matches.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  And you're able to laugh about it.

• 34:06Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yes, and the same sentiment should be held for our past mistakes. Like, haven't you ever done anything and then it mortified you or you were so angry at yourself? And then five years later, you will hysterically laugh about it with your wife or whatever.

• 34:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that's the best.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Yes, and that's how I think most of our failures, mistakes in life should be. Sure, at the moment, they're horrible and they make you feel really bad. But how beautiful is it when you are, have so much growth from that? And you're a completely different person in a beautiful way. And then you look back and you're, you can laugh at that. At something that made you sob, cry in a corner and you were, you know, in a fetal position. You didn't want to see anyone. And then you're like, no, okay, I had a bad moment. It's not a bad life and I could move on and be stronger and better. But sometimes we let those moments consume us and we never get out of them.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  And for me, that's a place that I never want to be because I felt like I was in that for a few years. And that was scary to me because I've never been in a dark place for that long. Of a place of shame and guilt and all of that. And then finally, I just said to myself, okay, enough. No one wants to be around someone and you're like, how's your day? Ah, fine. And not that I was that person, but internally, I felt like I was that person. I love being happy and joyful and like, life is so great if you look for the good.

• 35:37Jay Shetty?

  You just hit on something that's really important. I think a lot of people kind of get into that lull, like that feeling of a long period of I don't see light at the end of a tunnel. And was it was it like that for you? I mean, you you're so committed to the work, whether it's your prayer, your journaling. We were just talking earlier when you came in about how you need a few hours every week just by yourself.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:02Jay Shetty?

  And that's a practice that you've maintained with children, with your businesses, with your responsibilities, that carving out that time is so important to you. Talk to me about that, about like how much the work helped you even in the darkest times. Were you able to maintain it or?

• 36:18Speaker 01

  I mean, the work is what got me out of the darkest times. I think it's it's really easy to turn to God or whoever your higher being is. It's really easy to turn there when you're in this low time and like, get me out and, you know, and you just think magically they're going to send you a ladder and like pull you out of this ditch. But yes, he will maybe give you signs and tools, but you have to do the work. He can give you the recipe, but you gotta put all the cake mix and everything together and bake the cake. And I think so many times people expect it just like to be magic. Get me out of there and they don't want to do the work because the work is scary. Being alone is scary with the self-reflection and writing and all that like, because one

• 37:02Speaker 01

  you're like, oh, I have to face myself. And that seems a little daunting and people like to distract and not come to terms with who they are. For me, and again, being in my twenties, I did a lot of distracting. It's fun to distract, especially at that age and you don't have kids and you can do whatever. And so I remember that after my divorce, or even when my dad died, my dad died when I was nineteen, I remember going out every night because I I was an avoidant. Let me avoid these feelings. I'm not if it's if I'm not feeling them, they're not happening. Well, that didn't work too well. I remember losing all my hair, gaining so much weight, hyperventilating like when I would be alone.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  When I got a divorce, very similar. Let me go out, let me party, drink, hang out with new guys. What does that get me? You know, I I realized, okay, these ways of coping didn't work for so many years that when this time happened and maybe a little help of COVID, it was.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Around 2022, 2021, 2022, but still, things were still sort of locked down a little bit. And I just said, no, I'm not going to date anyone. And now I have kids too. I'm not going to a club. Like, what, what am I doing? But having to face myself and intentionally be alone, intentionally do the work, intentionally every day I wake up at 5:00 AM because I need that alone time to have my coffee, do my prayers, listen to my Bible app, like whatever it is that makes you whole. I need that. And I know when I don't have that, how different my day feels. I like to set my intentions for the day

• 38:50Speaker 01

  or my workouts, the clarity I get, just whatever it is. Everyone's going to be different. If you need to be outside, you have to decide that. But it did take me a long time of doing other things and seeing how horrible those things served me for me to find, okay, this I like. And yes, it's easy to, for me to go and date a man and be an avoidant and distract these real feelings. But then what? The same thing is probably going to happen to me again because I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm just willy nilly going through life. And what, because somebody is cute or this? I'm not paying attention to the core of people and even to the core of myself. And I just started listening to myself

• 39:34Speaker 01

  and finding the things that really made me feel whole, but alone. And I know so many of my friends cannot be alone because they don't want to hear their own thoughts. They don't want to start working on themselves. And I'm not judging that. But I know how amazing it is to be alone with myself and to like who I

• 39:59Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 40:42Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 40:51Speaker 04

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• 41:20Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a cellar or northeast regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 41:51Jay Shetty?

  I'm so glad you talked about that because I think that's one of the challenges we have today in the world is our inability to be alone. And again, I come at it from the same point of view as you. It's not about... Being judgmental, it's coming from a place of compassion and empathy that you can't break a pattern if you simply avoid it

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:14Jay Shetty?

  and pretend it doesn't exist. And when we're alone, we're breaking the pattern because we have to look at those assumptions. We have to look at all those beliefs. We have to look at the hardwired truths that we're living by. And we've got to look at, wait a minute, every decision I make, where in the past did that seed get planted? And I'm now, I'm now eating the fruit from that. And what seed do I want to plant today? Because I want to eat a different fruit in the future.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:38Jay Shetty?

  Otherwise, we keep eating the fruits from the past and never plant any new seeds.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  I understand how difficult it is to change your mindset. Your mind is a muscle. I, I get it. And we are humans by nature, like they love a routine. You, you find comfort in that. I totally get that. So I'm not saying, oh, it's so easy. Go ahead and do this. No, but it's little practices every day.

• 43:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I always say to people, you're, there's two questions you have to ask yourself. The first is, are you someone who seeks discomfort? Or someone who needs to build confidence? So if, if you're someone who needs to seek discomfort, you should start with the hardest thing first. And if you're someone who needs to build confidence, you should start with the easiest thing first. Because some of us want to wake up in the morning and jump into a cold plunge.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:24Jay Shetty?

  Because that sets us up for the day.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:26Jay Shetty?

  And some of us just need to wake up and make our bed.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:29Jay Shetty?

  And if we do that, now we feel we can do harder things. And, and all of us are one or the other. And the second thing is, are you an extremist or are you a balanced person? So for someone like me, I'm really good at being extreme. So if I make a decision and a commitment, I can be really extreme and cut it out tomorrow. My wife is more balanced. If you asked her to eat one tiny piece of chocolate a day, she could do that.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:53Jay Shetty?

  Me, I can eat the, the whole bar and the whole box.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:56Jay Shetty?

  Or nothing, because that's who I am as a person. And so it all comes back to what you're saying, that when you're spending time alone, you get a real sense of who you are. And then you get to make better habits and decisions for yourself. For you, as, as we're talking about all of this and your commitment to the work, your commitment and continued commitment to it, why was traditional therapy a path that you wanted to go down and take part in? As you mentioned, why was that something that you opened the door to?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  So for me, I never really thought I needed to go the conventional route. Kimberly was also anti-therapy for her own reasons. And I want to say maybe two years ago, maybe a little bit longer. She started seeing a therapist that she really, really liked. And she just suggested I meet with her. And I actually really liked, like, I really enjoy speaking with her. This might sound silly, but she is, you know, she's like from our neighborhood. Like, there's so many things that she gets us on. And I also love how chill she is. Like, at the beginning, she, when I would talk to her, she was like, I think I need to see you

• 45:10Speaker 01

  three days a week. And I was like, three days a week? And I remember telling Kendall and Kendall was like, I've never heard of someone seeing a therapist three days a week. I, do you need to go to a mental institution? Like, are you okay? And I was like, oh, my gosh, is that not normal? And we started talking, me and the therapist, more and more. And she was like, okay, I think you're like, you're actually really self-aware and you're great. I just, I had this little hump that I think I needed her a little bit more, maybe because I was just getting started, I'm not sure. And I love that she's also very chill. She's like, call me when you need me. She checks in on me by text. She's more like a friend and you just feel, I feel like I could trust her. And that's very rare for me.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  And I also think because of her relationship with Kim, she felt like more of a friend as opposed to this traditional therapist. And that's not bad or good, but because of my experience with past therapists, I didn't want something that was very traditional because I couldn't trust that.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  So I don't see her on a weekly basis anymore. I know when I need to see her, I will. But we do our check-ins every now and again. But I honestly feel like I'm in such a good place. And I, I also don't think that there's One which way that people can or need to get any help or life coaching, if you will. I think that it's not a one size fits all. I think everyone, whatever you're willing to try, try it. And whatever you feel like really speaks to your soul, then that's, that's the way to go.

• 46:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's such a value when you can trust someone in speaking to someone who's not connected to your life.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:54Jay Shetty?

  And almost doesn't feel the pressure to remind you, hey, you're doing great. Or like, you know, that's trying to fill all those other ways. But the thing that stood out to me is, you know, you talked earlier about the romantic relationships where your trust was broken. How do you even find the courage to trust again?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  That's really hard and I, it took me over 10 years to see a therapist again. And so many people were like, I think you need therapy. And I was like, well, I'm sure I do, but I don't feel comfortable talking to anybody. And definitely at first I would talk to her so monotone, so matter of fact. She would even say, you don't have emotion when you're speaking. And for me, I had to turn off the emotional switch in me. And I would tell stories very much because they are matter of fact, when I'm giving you the facts. But it was more like I'm, it wasn't me. I'm just reading off somebody's life story.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  And one of our activities or homework assignments basically was me writing some, like from the mini traumas to the big traumas in my life and writing them down. And the more I would write them down, I was like, this is ridiculous. Like how many mini to major traumas there are. And then we would go line by line and talk about them as opposed to just being like, this happened and this and throwing everything under the rug. She wanted to dissect everyone, not to be nosey, like not for, I felt it like there's some people I meet with that I'm like, I do not trust this person. I'm not going to give them anything. And she really worked hard to earn my trust. That made me feel safer with her.

• 48:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  And just to sort of get. Why I am so dead about some of the things that I should probably be crying about if I'm telling somebody this story that I'm telling. But the trust took a long time, but I will say, because I trust all of my siblings with everything in me, that normally if it is an introduction through them,

• 48:56Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  my guards do go down. And Kim has had her own crazy things that she's not very trusting with either. So for her to trust,

• 49:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  I was like, okay, I think I'm a little safe here.

• 49:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What did you find about that? Because I think that's so true for so many people who go to therapy that when you first go, you do recount your life as if it's a biography.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:19Jay Shetty?

  Right? You talk about it as if it's another person.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:22Jay Shetty?

  Because we have disassociated and disconnected some of that emotion as a protective mechanism, as a mechanism of not internalizing all of it. What did you find when you started to kind of go through the less salacious parts and these more? And to be honest, I also imagine it's rarely those moments that are the really defining moments. The defining moments happen much earlier.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:45Jay Shetty?

  With the unseen things. What did you discover as you started to, almost as you said, in your words, you were dead? How did you become more alive to the emotion of those moments? What did you discover?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Well, I remember I would just, like, I wrote everything down and I would read them as if I was reading, like you said, somebody's biography. And I'm like, okay. She would just keep asking me, you don't have any feeling when you read these? And I was like, well, yeah. And I would start laughing. And she's like, okay, well, not laughter, because I would feel so uncomfortable. And then that's my nervousness. And I realized once I was, I would be like, okay, sort of get my own ego out of the way. Like, I had to strip myself down. And it took a few times, like, she didn't want me to cry and relive this. She just was more fascinated how I was so numb to so many things.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  And it really made me more sad for myself because I felt as if, God, I've been through so many things that at this point I would rather not feel than feel because feeling is too much for me to handle. And what is life if you don't feel things? Like, I want to feel. I do wanna feel sadness too. Like, I love feeling joy and happiness, but then why am I so, I get, I know why I'm so okay with that feeling. But also grief is also a beautiful thing cuz it's an expression of love. And I think being sad or hurt means that there was once

• 51:19Speaker 01

  something or someone that you valued and cared about so much. And those were things that I had to learn and be like, it's okay, you're safe here. So it really just taught me to remind myself, like, we don't have to be numb to everything. And I use humor as an escape, as a defense mechanism. I do love to laugh and I do love humor. But I realize in really dark situations, I do tend to make a joke of it at some point. Like, that's just my personality. And I have to remind myself, it's okay to cry, or it's okay to have feelings. It doesn't make me weak. And I don't even, that's not even a thought I'm having, like, oh, are they gonna

• 52:00Speaker 01

  think I'm weak? But whenever I do cry, I tend to apologize afterwards, for some reason.

• 52:06Jay Shetty?

  Have you figured out why?

• 52:07Speaker 01

  No, I should probably ask her about that.

• 52:09Jay Shetty?

  No, well, I think partly it's because we're, I mean, you probably know it as a mother, I think, whenever we were crying as kids, most people just said to us, it's okay, don't cry.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:19Jay Shetty?

  It's okay, don't cry, whatever it was, right?

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:22Jay Shetty?

  And not that our parents had bad intentions or anything like that.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  It's a different time.

• 52:27Jay Shetty?

  It's a, it's a natural thing to say, but it's like, I think we've always been made to feel like if you cried, it was almost wrong, or it wasn't needed, or it wasn't necessary.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  And what's so weird, my mom cried, like, I wish I was more like that. She cries at anything and everything like, but happy.

• 52:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Like, I'm like, I don't know if I've cried happy tears, ever.

• 52:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Like, and I, but I wish I was that type of person that I'm like, oh, my goodness, the joy. Like, I wish I had a little bit of that. She maybe has too much. I wish she could sprinkle a little onto me. But I, and we're all different.

• 53:02Jay Shetty?

  I'm that person. I can like, get teary, to like, if I get asked to speak at someone's birthday that I love, or someone's wedding, or whatever it is, I am just holding back tears. I've had the opportunity to officiate some weddings. And whenever I'm officiating, I'm just literally going, Jay, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry. Cause I just, when I see people in love and I see, you know, all the families and

• 53:24Speaker 01

  That's my dream to cry a little.

• 53:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm just like, I'm holding back the whole time.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's my dream to be like, I, I have a heart, I have emotions. This is beautiful. Like, I wish.

• 53:34Jay Shetty?

  But you're so expressive with your words.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 53:36Jay Shetty?

  I feel like every time we talk, we've connected, whether we're messaging or whatever it is, you're so expressive, you're so loving through your words.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 53:44Jay Shetty?

  Like, you would feel that, and that's so natural and genuine to you.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  I, and I feel all those things, like, I'm probably too expressive with words sometimes, but maybe it's because I'm not a great, I don't cry very often at all. And maybe that's why, I don't know. Like, sometimes I turn on a sad movie just because I'm like, get the tears out. And sometimes they don't come out. There's, what is wrong with me?

• 54:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, my wife will look over at me because I'm crying in every moment. She's like, how are you crying at this? Like, nothing's even happened yet.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Like, I know what's gonna happen.

• 54:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. It's so, it seems like, one of the things I notice with you is you're such a rock for your family, for your children, even for your ex-partners. Like, you've been such a rock. And in one sense, it seems like one of your patterns is you've always taken care of others and other people. Have you discovered anything about why you've seen yourself take on that role in so many relationships in your life?

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's definitely my love language. And I am such a maternal person. I've always been that person. And no one's ever said this to me.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  And my parents are so loving and so incredible. But I used to feel, but I still, like, I still love taking care of people, but I used to feel like I wasn't worthy of, like, so many other things. But I knew if I took care of someone or was support, like, then maybe I'd be worthy of them loving me back. And that's how I used to feel. And I don't know where that came from, but it's almost like I have to earn my place in this person's life. So if I'm there for them, then maybe, like, that's enough. Because what else do I have to offer was how I used to feel. When it comes to all the kids, I was very, not by my family, but by other people.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  I was always talked about my looks, always told that I was chubby. No one ever believed that I was my sibling's sibling. They would always say, oh, where'd she come from? Or she's related to you from like teachers to so. I remember so vividly and that feeling of being always compared to them, but always not good enough to be considered their sibling. And I don't think these adults maliciously knew what they were doing, but it was so impactful that for children, I will do everything to include them, for them to never feel like that. And for adults too, but like with kids, I don't play. And I never want someone to feel the way I did.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  And so I want to be that rock for everyone. And, you know, I think also having so many brothers and sisters, you know, I, we were raised with my stepdad's kids too, being in and out. We had four step siblings. So there was eight of us and then at 1.10 of us. And there's a lot and sometimes people just don't feel as seen as others. And parents are doing the best that they can. And so I always have just wanted everyone to feel seen and supported. And from every sister and exes, like it's just, I feel like they're always in our lives, that God puts people in our lives for a reason. But I don't know, it's a part of me that I actually really love about myself. Cause we've talked about it in therapy.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  She thinks I give my love. Well, what did she say? I don't want to mess it up. She's like, I think you give your love to others because you've never really felt that love yourself. But I know I've felt that from my parents. It's mainly from outside people that I've never really felt real genuine love. It was like, oh, they'll take me because they wanted Courtney, Kim and Rob or whatever. Like I always had to like, I was always the funny one because I felt like that was how I would get attention. Because it wasn't because, oh, she's so cute or this or that. Cause people always made such a point to tell me how much I did not look. Like them or things like that. So I, I felt like, well, those were the things that people praised me on. So

• 57:52Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one hour workout to build strength, burn fat and build muscle. With an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com slash onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety.

• 58:37Jay Shetty?

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• 59:19Jay Shetty?

  If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in store or online.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Let's keep them up.

• 59:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and it is such a beautiful thing to be able to say, I love this about myself. And yes, maybe it's made me over give or over love or over share or whatever it may be, but at the same time, there's a beauty in this. Helps me be an amazing mom. Helps me protect these children, like which is such a beautiful gift. And I think sometimes that's so true, that our greatest gifts and our greatest superpowers come from how we were loved and what we experienced or what we had or didn't have. And it's us figuring out how that superpower can still live in our life and not trip us up. I think as time's gone on, as we start to set boundaries, a boundary should never put a boundary on your ability to love.

• 1:00:33Jay Shetty?

  It's a boundary to protect you from loving the wrong person.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:36Jay Shetty?

  There's a difference in that, right?

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  There is.

• 1:00:38Jay Shetty?

  You wanting to share love and give love should never be limited by who you choose.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  And not a bad thing.

• 1:00:44Jay Shetty?

  And not a bad thing.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:00:45Jay Shetty?

  And not a bad thing. And I think we all can become closed-hearted and, you know, darker and bitter about it because of what we've experienced. But I love that you've held on to that. And I think the biggest challenge for a good-hearted, good person is that we believe everyone loves the way we do.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:04Jay Shetty?

  And then when they don't, we feel hurt by it. And then we can become closed and unloving. But that's the biggest loss for the world. It's the biggest loss for our lives because, as you said, there's so much joy. If you can feel joy in being that person, it's a beautiful thing.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  People are always so surprised that I'm not more cynical when it comes to love. And they always ask, do you ever think you're gonna get married again? And I go, yes, I hope I'm gonna get married again. I think marriage is the most beautiful union that there is. And I love that I love family. I mean, look at our family. We can't get away from each other. And I love every aspect of love, whether it be just for a friendship love or like I value that respect and that secrecy and that loyalty and whatever it is. And people are always surprised that I believe in love. I probably am more joyful now, especially with love than maybe five years ago.

• 1:02:07Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  And it's because I feel like I know how to control myself more. Where before, you know, you just give things so freely. And I love giving love. I love loving myself, loving my family and others. But I feel like I'm a little bit wiser with maybe whom I give it to so innocently.

• 1:02:29Jay Shetty?

  I think the amazing thing about love is we think love is also something we only feel when we receive it.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:34Jay Shetty?

  But love, you actually feel it when you get to give it.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:37Jay Shetty?

  There's like a joy in giving love that isn't there even in receiving it.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  I could not agree more. Like, I cannot accept gifts from people. I feel so uncomfortable, but giving somebody a gift, I love. And I get so excited just for, because I like to give really thoughtful gifts. Like, it's just the joy that you give to people. I love, yeah, I just love. And I do have a problem where I love people. I'm one, I was one of those kids. My mom was like, I could never leave you alone. You would just go talk to everyone and I, but I've always been a people person. So, and I never want to see people in pain. I want to be that love and support for someone if and when I can.

• 1:03:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, speaking of marriage, obviously recently on the show, you had Lamar on the show. And I believe it was the first time you'd seen each other in nine years.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Almost 10.

• 1:03:28Jay Shetty?

  Almost 10 years.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:30Jay Shetty?

  I wonder, why did you feel now was the time to reconnect? And was it you who initiated, was it him? Where did that come from?

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  So, yeah, Lamar and I, the last time I saw him, I believe was 2016.

• 1:03:45Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  And, and it never spoke, nothing since 2016, if my memory serves correctly. I was actually at Super Bowl last year, the one in Las Vegas. And my best friend, Malika, was there and she was staying somewhere else. And she ran into him in a hotel lobby and they both just started like crying because they were really close and just embraced and they exchanged numbers. And so that's how the first intro happened. And for Lamar, I I've, when we divorced, Lamar was not in a good headspace and, but Lamar's a seven foot tall man. We had all this custom furniture and he was like, just get rid of it all. I don't

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  want to just sell the house. And I'm like, what? I didn't know what to do with that. So for years, I kept a storage unit of all of his furniture, thinking one day he would want it. And years ago, before I had kids.

• 1:04:43Jay Shetty?

  That's so thoughtful.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Thank you. Well, it's his and expensive and he's a big guy. Like, you're gonna want it. And I remember he was, before I had true, I think I was just pregnant. I was like, you know what? I just, I don't need to hold on to this storage unit anymore. And he said, through his friend, who will go unnamed, said, give him the storage keys and he'll take it for me. And I was like, cool, fine. I did so and I found out later down the line that this friend of his sold everything that was in the unit and without Lamar knowing. And that broke my heart because I was like, I've saved these things for years. I could have

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  got rid of it then, but these were his belongings and memorabilia from all of his sports stuff and whatever. So that broke my heart. When I moved from my last house during COVID, I think it was 2020 or 2021, I didn't think I had a thing of Lamar's. I found Lamar's six man of the year trophy. I found, his, his mom passed away when he was 12, I believe. I found stuff of his mother's. They were all in my attic, jewelry, all this stuff. And I, I held on to it and I said, I'm never going to give this to somebody else unless it's Lamar. I'm going to hold on to these things. Cause now I don't trust his people

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  around him. And when Malika reached out, when Malika told me she saw him, I said, that's so weird. I just found his mom's driver's license last week. And I was like, okay. She's like, why don't you give it to him? I was like, let me think this over. And it took a few months for me to.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Want her to reach out to say like, do you want to meet up with me? Cause I wanted to do it. I didn't want to just drop it off. I didn't. I wanted to see him and make sure still that he was doing okay. And at the time I didn't have any feelings. I was like, yeah, let's hang, let's come over. Let's go to Malika's house. I didn't want to do it in public where it would be a big spectacle. I didn't want to do it at my house because my kids there. And he knew about the cameras. He picked the time of the date. I never would have ambushed somebody about that. And he picked the time of the date. He flew in for it. And it's so weird when I thought I was totally cool. And when he came in, he was so nervous.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  And I was trying to reassure him like, we're fine and whatever. And there would be times in our conversation that I started getting these feelings. I don't know if they're triggers or, cause we've both experienced a lot of trauma together. Lamar and I. And there would be either little, little mannerisms or things that would flash me back to 10, 15 years ago. And I didn't realize how triggered I was getting from Lamar.

• 1:07:40Jay Shetty?

  What did it bring up for you? And, and was it useful in giving more closure? Did it feel like it moved it on? Or was it kind of like pulling you back? Because I'm thinking about all the people in the world who have the courage, first of all, to even not talk to someone for nine years. Because that's hard enough as it is. But then to kind of throw yourself back into it that much time later.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Well, I could only say this because he, I would never tell somebody else's story, but I'm saying this because he said it on the episode. We didn't talk for 10 years because after his, after his overdose, Lamar couldn't walk or talk. And he had a significant amount of seizures and strokes and needed to be rehabilitated. And I helped him through that journey. And then when he was at a decent place, he started using again. And he said that on the show. That's why I'm saying it now. And from that moment was when. I was paying for a house for him to be in. I had, I was taking care of him. And I said, I can never see you again. Not that it was anything ever romantic.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  I, from my, I love Lamar with all my heart. Even today, I love, love, love him. And I know he was like, one of the greatest loves of my life. It just, other circumstances took over. But, so I really sincerely wanted the best for him. When he started using again after such a horrific accident, where he, in my opinion, is a miracle that he is alive today. I couldn't understand how someone would go and do that again. And I get it's a disease, but it felt like you punched me in my stomach. And I put so much of my life on hold to take care of this person. Just for them to be like, that's fine.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Like, I'm, I'm not sure how he felt about himself. It made me feel that he had no respect for his own life. And for anything that I did for him as well. And so from that moment on, I said, no, I'm not speaking to this person anymore because it does nothing for me. It, there's no benefit in this. I felt more like I would be taking care of him, but being lied to. I just, I had so many negative thoughts. So that 10-year break, as sad as it was, it wasn't that hard for me. Because I, it was, but it was sad and I thought about him all the time and always wanting to make sure he's okay.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  And then when I saw him, like, I loved seeing him. It was great. It was really sad at the same time. Seeing someone I thought I would never outgrow. I realized how much I outgrew him. And that made me sad. And but I wonder if we were still married, would we have grown together? And there were so many things that made me wonder even more, like, would we have grown together? If we did stay together, would this have stopped? Or would it's would that beast always, you know, be needing to be fed? But you can't live your life in the what ifs of it all.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  But it definitely made me sad because I just felt like we were two totally different people, and I never thought we would get to that place.

• 1:11:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  I'm happy for him. I am so happy that he's so Bernie's doing these great things with his life. And those are things that anyone should be rooting for.

• 1:11:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  I'm also proud of him for meeting with me. Because as much as as scary as or as nerve wracking, and yeah, scary as it was for me to meet with him, I could only imagine how he felt because we left on really bad terms on his end. So I'm sure it was scarier for him.

• 1:11:35Jay Shetty?

  Does it make you feel like there's more healing for you to do in regard to that relationship, like resentment, anger, or or that the forgiveness that you had is kind of felt more concrete?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  I don't have any anger or resentment. I really, really don't. And and I don't know if this is a bad or a good thing. But me and all my siblings, my mom could be on the fence with this one, but definitely me and my siblings, when we like, we will be mad in the moment and curse someone out and yada, yada, you give us a year and we're like, we love that person. What do you like, we don't ever hold on to that bad stuff. And we don't know if that's necessarily good. Because you sometimes you need to remember what people are capable of. But we're like, oh, but they're great. And we'll recite these great things. But I also think it is a beautiful thing

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  because I want to remember the good. I know what you are capable of, but I don't need to hold on to all of the stuff that happened, too. Because I also feel like That was their journey. That was for them to experience and go through. And I was just a bystander. Yes, I went through it as well. But that journey is really for that other person.

• 1:12:48Jay Shetty?

  I'm mind blown, honestly.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  My God, Jay.

• 1:12:51Jay Shetty?

  I mean, it's just, and I believe you so deeply. I can, I can feel it just sitting with you in, in your presence. But it's so hard to do what you're saying for, just in general. And people always say forgive and forget. But I think for you, it's forgive and don't forget.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's forgive and don't forget. And I think so much of it is empathy. I think that.

• 1:13:16Jay Shetty?

  That's huge, Chloe. It's huge. Like, I want, I really hope you.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:13:20Jay Shetty?

  I really hope you allow that to sit with you and take that into the of just how huge it is.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Well, because most people say, oh, because you're so weak.

• 1:13:28Jay Shetty?

  No, I think of it the other way.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  And I think it is a strength. Like, whenever, I remember when Tristan's mother passed away and Tristan has a brother that's disabled. And his mother was, Amari is Tristan's brother's name. Tristan's mom was Amari's sole caretaker and she passed away. I, Tristan's house was under construction. We had all these crazy rains. His roof caved in. Tristan and I were not speaking at this time. Like, there was not a chance I would speak to him. And when Andrea passed away, I remember having Amari and Tristan move in with me. Because, yes, he could have gone to a hotel.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  But he need, Tristan and Amari both needed to be not isolated. They both lost their mother. Amari needs special living arrangements, caretakers. There's a, a lot that comes with Amari. And so I was like, live here, your kids are here. I got so much crap for that. And I'm thinking, do you guys think this is weak? I wasn't speaking to this man. Fifteen minutes ago, and now I'm offering to give my house here. And that, to me, takes so much more strength. And also to walk around the house in front of my kids and smile and because I'm not fighting in front of my kids. I don't do stuff like that. But and with Lamar, like for Lamar,

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  when his accident happened, his overdose happened at a brothel. And he, you know, it's not like the like I I showed up at the hospital, not because I'm weak, because I was strong and I needed to take care of him. Because who else would have? And I think people don't realize how much strength comes in those things. And it doesn't mean I forget. It just means there's something bigger here that's going to take precedence. And I need, my moral compass says, I need to show up and honor that. And that's

• 1:15:26Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff, too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options.

• 1:16:11Jay Shetty?

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• 1:16:55Jay Shetty?

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• 1:17:06Speaker 02

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• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Just mine.

• 1:17:36Jay Shetty?

  Don't ever let anyone tell you it's weak. It's so not weak. It's so powerfully strong. And you can see it in your heart. And just that, a heart full of compassion and empathy and context and understand. I mean, you did that for Amari, right? The other situation, it's like you're going, if you're not talking to someone and you're going against all of this, but you're recognizing that there's someone here who's vulnerable, unable to care for themselves.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:00Jay Shetty?

  And.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, Tristan could have got a hotel, but you know.

• 1:18:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  But with Amari and then, and I wanted Tristan to be with his brother because I've been with that family for years. But Amari knows he just lost his mother. He needs to be around his brother. And there were so many things. But, you know, I think, I think where some people call it weakness, they don't realize how much strength goes into putting your own personal feelings aside for the betterment of somebody else.

• 1:18:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and the biggest thing is you're better off because of it internally. And I think that's ultimately what no one sees apart from you, is you have to go to, when your, when your eyes close at night and you go to sleep, you go to sleep with that feeling of what you did and how you felt.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:46Jay Shetty?

  And if you were in bed that night going, I should have done this, I should have helped. I wish I did this, but I've got to look strong and I don't want to be weak.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:54Jay Shetty?

  But then you're weak. You've just, you know, stayed up all night trying to solve this issue in your head.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I know, it's huge. You brought up your beautiful children, who I love seeing you with. And they're adorable.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:19:08Jay Shetty?

  The cutest. And I was just thinking that being a mom for you is just such, it feels like such a natural role, as you said earlier.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  It's my favorite thing.

• 1:19:16Jay Shetty?

  That it's your favorite thing. And it comes across in seeing all the kids together and everything. What do you hope as they grow up? Do they learn about you and seeing you? What's your hope for them to understand about their mom?

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I wish my phone's in the other room. But I dropped True off at school today. And they each wrote something about someone. And True wrote, I love my mommy because there's kindness in her soul. And she's six. And I help her do her homework, which both were sweet. But the sentence, there's kindness in her soul. I was like, what a profound thing to say and a deep thing for a six year old.

• 1:19:56Jay Shetty?

  Huge.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  So beautiful. And that makes me feel, you know, like that I'm doing something right. That they don't love their mommy because she gives me presents or this or that. Like, I try to be as present with my children as possible. We all have our phones. We all, I'm not saying I'm never on my phone. But when we do have our time, I want to be on the floor with them playing games. I'm not just going to buy them all these games. And that's what they care about. And they care about just the routine, the memories, the dinners, the little things. It doesn't have to be all day, every day. I know everyone's working and everyone's juggling a million things.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  But if you even only have 30 minutes with your kids, make sure to put your phone down for the 30 minutes because your kids will remember that. And that 30 minutes, you can build such a connection. And me and my kids, we talk and we, they take baths together, both of them. And that's our time. And how loving both my kids are with each other that I take such pride in. Because I always hear stories about, you know. And I don't think I was that nice to my brother when I was little. But I just want them to know that this is a house of love. And like, for me, love is the foundation. Love and faith is the foundation for everything.

• 1:21:19Jay Shetty?

  That's so beautiful. I mean, it shows, I mean, that is such a profound thing for a six year old to write.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Isn't it? I got it this morning. I took a picture of it this morning. I was like, I am, I was shocked. I like, what a deep thing to say.

• 1:21:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's so sweet. We were talking about earlier society's expectations and pressures as you were growing up. And as you said, it's so much harder on children today.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:40Jay Shetty?

  Because of the access, right? Before, you knew what your class was doing. Today, you know what the whole world is doing.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:46Jay Shetty?

  There are also kids that the whole world knows what they're doing.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:49Jay Shetty?

  So it it creates so many. How do you, what does it look like when you're thinking about this? And you're figuring out how they navigate the world that they're growing up in? What are the thoughts that come to your mind?

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  We went to a restaurant the other night and the waitress kept calling me by my name. She was like, Chloe, you want another drink, whatever? And True was going, how does she know who you are? And I go, oh, I just come here all the time, which I don't. But they don't realize that we're on TV or anything like they don't know the difference. Cause I'm not talking about it. And I just think that's.

• 1:22:23Jay Shetty?

  That's impressive.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  I think that's so funny to me that she's like, how does somebody know your name? Or she'll say, why do they want a picture with you? I go, maybe she likes my hair. Like, I always try to say like something and brush it off. I don't know. I don't want to make a big deal out of it. You know, for my kids, True, she has an iPad that they can watch shows or whatever when doing her hair. But I have limited iPad time. And I tell her she can't have a phone until she's 12. And who knows if I'll keep that, but that's, I don't think kids need it. Other than that, I think they have these amazing phones that are just for calling. Now, I forget what they're called.

• 1:23:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I know you're talking about it.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  But there's no internet access. And so I'm like, yes, if you, you know, you can have one of those phones, but just to call me. But otherwise, why, I don't want you looking at these things. They're not on the internet, like she's not on Instagram or TikTok or that kind of stuff. I don't think that's necessary at this age. I think it's really damaging. But I try to not be on those things when I'm around them. Like, we'll film videos and I post them later, but we we just think we're making like dance videos. But I try not to be on those things around them because they see that.

• 1:23:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  I picked up the phone and we were at a red light. And True was like, mommy, no texting and driving. And I was like, oh, my gosh, she's right. I was at a red light, but she, they will also remind you if you're doing anything illegal. They love to yell at you. But um, but I don't know what the world looks like for that. I'm not someone that like covers their faces and does all that. I feel like. I don't want to not be out with my kids and or feel like I have to hide them. I feel like that would make my kids more anxious or ask more questions. If my kids ever wanted to do something on TV or anything like that, we would talk it through. But I don't push it. I don't necessarily want them to. But if they want to, then we can talk about it.

• 1:24:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you were also saying that dating is something that you'd be open to. It's at least one date in your 40s, I think you said.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  I have 10 years.

• 1:24:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's amazing. And I was thinking like this idea of dating as a mom is hard, I'm sure, like with time and energy and effort and everything else. Like, how does that even fit into that wheelhouse as you're thinking about it? For all the moms out there who are thinking about dating in their 40s, which is very real.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  I don't know if I'm the best one to ask because I genuinely, I have young, my kids are younger.

• 1:24:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  And so I am loving that I get to have so much time with them right now. And there's going to be a time that no matter how much they love me, they're not going to want to be with me. You know, they're like, I want to be with my friends. And yes, that's going to hurt, but I get it. I was that kid. And right now I'm truly happy and I don't feel lonely. I've like, I'm so fulfilled with work and my kids. And once they're asleep, like I get a little bit of alone time and then I go to sleep and I start again.

• 1:25:25Jay Shetty?

  Listening to you, I'm thinking like, there's such a, just even what you're saying and just being happy with where you are, happy with yourself. I wonder, does the evolved, the version of you that's been doing all this work? How do you think about the right partner now versus how you used to think about it? And then, you know, the quick version before, like, how has that impacted what you look for, what you think about?

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  What I do love is that now I'm, I am forced to take my time with someone. Where before I would love a good love bombing. I'm like, you love me, okay? Like, I would just like roll with it. Where now I think we could, you know, mildly love bomb, but I, I can't do much about it. Cause I do love the love and the affirmations. I do love all that. I'm not going to deny it, but. I have to move slow because of my children. And that is a good thing for me.

• 1:26:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  I am so used to my routine right now. I'm such a structured person. I don't do a lot of socializing unless it's with my same group of people. And someone said to me, why don't you throw like an event at your, not an event, but like I hosted dinner at my house once a month and have your friends invite another friend. And not even about for romantic reasons, but just for the fact, because dating is a skill or even socializing, like my social battery is empty all the time because I'm not used to using it anymore. If it's not in the daytime, I'm like, you want me up past nine? That's crazy. Like to me, I'm like, how do you stay awake?

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  I have to get used to staying up a little later, entertaining people, hanging out. So I loved that idea of like, maybe once a month, having a little dinner party with my friends. If it's a group of people, I don't mind if they are around my kids because it's a group. And just meeting people. It could be romantic if someone brought someone that I was like, okay, like this person, or it could just be me, you know, sharpening the tool of socializing with people again.

• 1:27:28Jay Shetty?

  But see, I love that idea because I think you've just hit on something for a lot of people. I think so many people, almost we do the extreme. So one extreme is we're love bombing. We get love bomb, we love it. It doesn't work out. But then the other extreme is we get so comfortable being alone.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:27:43Jay Shetty?

  That we don't even know how to engage with others. And I think we kind of oscillate between these two things where we just go back and forth.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:51Jay Shetty?

  As opposed to, I love what you're doing, which is, hey, let's create an opportunity for a connection, whether it's romantic or not.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:57Jay Shetty?

  And I'm practicing my skill. It's not going to feel like this really daunting thing now when I have a conversation with someone. And it kind of keeps it fresh for us. And I think that's so important for people because we get so confident and comfortable being alone.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  Totally, because that was me. I have been alone for three years and I love it. Like I'm scared.

• 1:28:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  And I'm like, okay, I have to, I love this maybe too much where that worries me because I could do this for another five years and be so happy about it, but that's not normal. Like I need to push myself. And for people that, if you don't want to bring people to your home, you guys could like do this at a restaurant and have it be a monthly thing or every other month thing, like whatever's workable for your schedule. I just loved that lesson. And I can't do it weekly, like I would love to in my brain, but that's too much social battery for me. So I'm like, I could do once a month where I just have a little gathering at my house and it is a skill that I wanna work on.

• 1:28:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that for you. That's such a great idea. It's brilliant.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  You might be invited to one.

• 1:28:57Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I'd love, let me know when. I'd love that. I'd love that. That'd be so much fun. No, that sounds beautiful. And one thing I've noticed about you throughout this whole conversation that I admire so deeply is you just lean into discomfort. Just lean into it.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:29:13Jay Shetty?

  And that's so hard to do.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Wow, I didn't think of that.

• 1:29:17Jay Shetty?

  You just lean into it, whether it's the discomfort of forgiveness, the discomfort of moving on, the discomfort of accepting where you are, the discomfort of raising a family, the discomfort of people seeing you as being weak, the discomfort of

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Wow, I didn't think of that.

• 1:29:30Jay Shetty?

  dealing with external judgment. You just lean into it. Where does that come from? Where did you see it? Where did you experience it? Now that, seeing as it sounds like it's the first time you've

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, my wheels are turning right now. I don't know. I mean, I sound like a broken record, but so much of it is my faith.

• 1:29:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  And, but also

• 1:29:47Jay Shetty?

  It's not broken, it's beautiful.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  But it is. But I was raised in such a faith-heavy household. My mom and my dad, faith is the foundation of everything. And my dad, we went to Sunday school every Sunday, like everything was always about faith. Prayers every night, prayers before food. And I think when you're just raised that way, you learn to rely and lean on your faith whenever you need to. And I'm someone that it's so easy to rely on faith when you're struggling and when something's bad. But I, yes, I go to God when I'm struggling, but I go to God so much more when I'm happy because I am so grateful and I'm telling Him, thank you for bringing me out of that spot. And I think so many people forget to

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  go to your higher power when you're in the best of times, because that's when He wants you to acknowledge Him too. And not just when you need Him. That's easy. Like, don't just call me for help. Like, I want you to call me too when you're joyful and there's so much greatness going on. And so I, I do the same. And I think the more that you talk about greatness, the more greatness then surrounds you.

• 1:30:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think, I think faith is just such an underestimated part of life.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  It's sad. I was watching the Academy Awards the other night and

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  I barely heard anybody thank God. And at the end, Adrian Brody, he was, I think, one of the last speeches. And the very first thing he said was, I just want to thank God. And I don't know, that just made, I was like, it was sad to me that not that many people lead with faith anymore. And not that you have to, but it was a big thing that I noticed.

• 1:31:22Jay Shetty?

  I think people get scared now. There's like this worry and I feel like things are coming back around again. It almost feels like there was a time when you almost couldn't talk about it because you'd be judged for, or there'd be connotations or

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Right, I agree with that.

• 1:31:36Jay Shetty?

  You know, things like that around there. And I definitely felt that as well, where it's just like, okay. And, and I think now that's coming back around where I think a lot of younger people in the world today are turning towards spirituality and faith and

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I love hearing that.

• 1:31:49Jay Shetty?

  For that, which, which you're seeing in trends and conversations where I think people are having to look for higher purpose and higher meaning now.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  We need it.

• 1:31:57Jay Shetty?

  Because it's really hard to find meaning and purpose around us.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:01Jay Shetty?

  And I think what, what you talk about it so beautifully is that it's a conversation. It's real, it's natural, it's good and bad. It's, it's not like this ritualistic

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:09Jay Shetty?

  process.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32:10Jay Shetty?

  There's, there's a genuine relationship

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32:13Jay Shetty?

  that exists there, which is what we're all looking for as well.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Chloe, it's been such a joy talking to you today. Honestly, I love every moment I get to spend with you.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  I do too, I love that.

• 1:32:23Jay Shetty?

  And you've just reminded us of how we can be strong in tough times. How you can look back on your life and move forward, how you can reflect and still feel so much growth and that we shouldn't be scared to do the work and that we can be scared, but then we still have to follow through.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Jay Shetty?

  And I'm so thankful that my community and I get to learn from you and sit with you and really dive into so much stuff that people have seen play out for them publicly, but to really understand how you've been processing it behind the scenes is really a gift. So thank you so much.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  Well, thank you, Jay.

• 1:33:01Jay Shetty?

  From the bottom of my heart.

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  It's so easy to talk to you and I love and adore you and being in this safe space. So thank you for allowing me to be vulnerable and feel so safe with you.

• 1:33:11Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, Brian. You're the best.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:33:13Jay Shetty?

  If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child.

• 1:33:23Speaker 05

  You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, "That is so unfair because that's not who I am." And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, "But I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?"

• 1:33:35Speaker 06

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• 1:34:04Speaker 03

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• 1:34:19Speaker 06

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

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  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:34:25Speaker 06

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:34:28Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:34:30Speaker 06

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.