John Legend ON: Growing From Grief & How to Turn Childhood Adversities into Fuel for Your Passion

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. Today, I talk to the one and only John Legend. John has garnered 12 Grammy Awards, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy award making him the first black man to earn an EGOT. During the course of John's career, he has released seven celebrated albums. His eighth studio album, Legend, which was released on September 9th, is out right now. John recently began the second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency entitled Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October. And his MasterClass on songwriting has just been released. John openly shares his amazing journey as a songwriter, singer, and family man. We start the conversation with his childhood - from growing up in a Christina home, being homeschooled to transitioning into a public school and the challenges that come with it. Next, we dive deep into how community support plays a huge role in molding children outside of the home, the value of knowing what you want in life and finding the means to attain it and sticking to it, and the relentless pursuit of a career and build a family where love, care, and a safe space is prioritized. The hurdles may have been tough and the path may be unclear at some point, but John’s story is telling us to believe in what we can do and remain passionate about the things we love to do. What We Discuss: 00:00:00 Intro 00:03:07 Homeschooled 00:07:23 Transitioning into a public school 00:11:13 The strength of community support 00:14:21 Healing, recovery, and forgiveness 00:17:47 Creating stability at home 00:21:36 Focus on what’s important to you 00:29:06 Surrounding yourself with people you’re comfortable with 00:31:13 The truth about ego 00:35:19 Your partner gives the most honest feedback 00:39:20 Becoming a better partner 00:43:56 We never completely forget our trauma 00:47:52 Pursuing a career and building a family 00:51:29 Advocacy for better living opportunities for the society 00:54:35 What keeps you going? 00:56:27 Who do you want to collaborate with? 00:57:51 Inspiration don’t come everyday 01:01:08 John on Fast Five 01:04:47 John’s The Many Sides of Us Episode Resources John Legend | Instagram John Legend | Twitter John Legend | Facebook John Legend | YouTube John Legend | Website Do you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on Calm Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Jay Shetty?

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• 1:14Jay Shetty?

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• 1:54Jay Shetty?

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• 2:20Speaker 02

  When we first met, we were like very attracted to each other. It was, it was, uh, our chemistry was great. But that level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship. And love, when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more like, uh, more real than that.

• 2:51Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that join every week to listen, learn and grow. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book.

• 3:34Jay Shetty?

  And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules. Go to jayshettytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now, I know you're here because you're fascinated, as I am, about creator's stories, people's backgrounds, walks of life, choices they made, decisions that changed the trajectory of their journey, because you're trying to make the same in your life. And today's guest is someone that I had down as one of the names when I first started the show four years ago, nearly four years ago. And it was one of those people that I want to speak to because I was a fan of his music for a long time, his journey. And I'm grateful that today we actually get to do this in person in my studio at home in L.A.

• 4:18Jay Shetty?

  And so I'm speaking about none other, the one and only John Legend, who's garnered 12 Grammy Awards, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy Award. Making him the first black man to earn an EGOT. During the course of John's career, he has released seven celebrated albums. His eighth studio album, Legend, which was released on September 9th, is out right now. I've been listening to it. It's beautiful. I can't wait for you to listen to it if you haven't already. John recently began the second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency entitled Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October, so make sure you check that out. And I'm really excited because his masterclass on songwriting has just released.

• 5:03Jay Shetty?

  And if you don't already have a masterclass subscription, make sure you grab one. I first got one when Bob Iger had his masterclass. That's what took me to the platform. And now John Legend has his own on songwriting. So John, welcome to the show.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Great to see you. Great to meet you.

• 5:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  I'm excited for our conversation.

• 5:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, me too. I usually know people that are on the show and I was like, this is, we've never met.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:27Jay Shetty?

  Uh, we've never crossed paths, you know, and so it's always nice to, I feel like this is the best way to get to know someone deeply and intimately is do a podcast with them.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  When else would you have a, a, a situation where you meet someone and you have over an hour to talk to them and learn about them?

• 5:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. When was the last time you did that? Is there, when was the last time you sat down with someone?

• 5:47Speaker 02

  I don't know that that ever happens.

• 5:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, it's a blessing and it's, it truly is, but I, I mean, I remember being a kid in London. I remember when we first heard your music and we're like, who is this person? At the time I was listening to R and B and hip hop and rap. And then it was like, oh, this is very different. Like this isn't, you know, it's hard to kind of pin it down into one of those genres. But I want to dive into your journey today as well a little bit. And I want to start with you being homeschooled.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:16Jay Shetty?

  Uh, when I, when I was researching and reading, I was like, wow, I had no idea.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was homeschooled by my parents, uh, particularly my mother. We grew up in a very Christina home. My parents sent us to a Christian school for a couple of years, but it was a little expensive for them to send us to private school. But they still wanted us to have a very kind of Christian education. They decided that instead of sending us to this Christian school, they would basically take the curriculum from the school, use the books from the school. And the school had this homeschool liaison as well, because a lot of evangelical Christian parents like to use this this method. We would work with the school, but my mom was our main teacher. And we were home a lot with her.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  We had, you know, friends in the neighborhood, relatives in the neighborhood. But yeah, we were with our parents and at the house quite a bit when most of our friends were going to public school and being around a bunch of other kids.

• 7:15Jay Shetty?

  What's your strongest memory from that time? Or something that you took away that has kind of stayed with you? Because I find that homeschooling is still a fairly small population when it comes to people.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's very big in the evangelical Christian community. What I remember from it, you know, I was very precocious. So I love to read. I love to independently do whatever, you know, I would just want to advance past whatever I was supposed to be doing at the time. I was obsessed with like encyclopedias and dictionaries. I ended up winning the City Spelling Bee during that time. So I was very precocious, wanted to learn everything. My mom had a typing textbook and I just decided I was going to learn how to type. I was taking piano lessons during this time, too. So I just wanted to learn everything and know how to do everything.

• 8:02Jay Shetty?

  What's something that you've been trying to learn more recently? Or where that mindset's kind of like carried through?

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Well, I don't.

• 8:10Jay Shetty?

  What would you like to then, if you had the time?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  I should do more master classes. I should be a consumer more master classes. But yeah, I haven't done that recently. I do like to read a lot and I like to just read about how the world works. I like to read about policy and I'm very interested in, you know, how to. Craft a better society that's more loving and more generous and more just and more equitable for more people. And so I like to read books that kind of discuss some of these policy ideas and ways of thinking about the world.

• 8:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, that's beautiful. And it is true. Like, I feel like we all get so busy that it's hard to find time to keep learning.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I haven't recently taken up anything where I'm like, I want to learn how to do this that I don't know how to do. I tried to do it with guitar for a while. And then I just got so busy that I never like stuck with it. And I haven't had something like that recently that I've done. Maybe I should learn another language.

• 9:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  My friend did some Duolingo.

• 9:13Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  It worked for her.

• 9:14Jay Shetty?

  No, I'm with you too. I feel like, but it's fun looking back at like, what was that in childhood that we loved and kind of reconnect.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  It'd be good, you know, now that you brought it up, I'm like, why haven't I, you know, picked something I want to learn about. I always thought about, should I go back to college and like take classes and just just randomly take classes where there's no pressure to get good grades, but just you want to learn something.

• 9:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  That'd be fun.

• 9:39Jay Shetty?

  Well, that's a beautiful point that as an adult, you actually get to go and learn something without the pressure of having to like be good grades.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Like my mom, she's going to college right now. She never graduated and she decided she would just go. And, you know, she's like almost 70 years old.

• 9:53Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing. What is, what's her experience been like?

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Uh, she loves it. She really enjoys it. I think it's very like stimulating for her and, you know, she doesn't work. So it's like something to occupy her mind and to stimulate her mind. And she really is learning new things.

• 10:08Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing. So you, you went from being homeschooled to then being like, and obviously there's many years in between, but being homecoming king.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:17Jay Shetty?

  And that's like.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Prom king, prom king.

• 10:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, prom king, prom king. Sorry, we don't have proms in London. So, you know, where I grew up. So.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:23Jay Shetty?

  I always missed that. I would watch Hollywood movies and I'd be like, why don't we get to have prom?

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:28Jay Shetty?

  And so we never did that. But what was that experience like of then moving from like this very specific homeschooled culture, religious culture, institutional culture, and then transitioning? Like, talk to me a bit about that transition as a young adult or as a child.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  It was interesting because at the time, the impetus for us transitioning into public school was our parents getting divorced. And that, the impetus for that really was, it began with my grandmother dying. So my grandmother was very. Important in our lives. She was very important in my mother's life. And they made music together. They ran the church choir together and were very close. And when she died, it really sent my mom into a spiral, um, mental health wise and, and uh, she ended up abusing drugs and, and just really becoming distant from our family for a while. During that period, my parents got divorced. Our world was being shaken in a lot of ways.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  And one of the ways it was being shaken is like, oh, now we're going to public school after, you know, an entire, you know, 10 years of my life where I didn't spend any time in public school and, you know, it was quite an adjustment, um, coming from homeschool. And I also, because I was so precocious, I ended up being skipped two grades ahead because I tested out of, um, the grades I was supposed to be in. And so I end up starting eighth grade at the age of a sixth grader. Wow. And, uh, starting high school at the age of 12 and graduating at the age of 16. So all of it was a bit, you know, difficult, you know, socially adjusting, adjusting to my parents being divorced, adjusting to being in a public school setting when I'd

• 12:10Speaker 02

  never been in one before. There were a lot of adjustments to make. That's why I'm always, you know, wary of the idea of homeschooling kids because the social development just isn't really there. Um, but I figured it out, so. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I think music was always my way of, of helping me find ways to connect to people because even though I was too shy to really strike up a conversation in person, I wasn't too shy to get up on stage. And once I got up on stage, it was my way of introducing myself to people. It was like, oh, this is me. This is who I am. And. I didn't have to break the ice with people because my music was my way of breaking the ice.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  It was like my social crutch, I would say, at the time. It enabled me to make friends, enabled me to feel like some control over what I was doing. And I think when you feel like you have something you're really good at, it makes you feel a bit more empowered to do other things and to connect with other people and feel like you can take up space because you feel like, oh, I have something that I've shown everyone that I'm really good at.

• 13:20Jay Shetty?

  I think that is such a great point, and I completely agree with you. I was a really shy kid growing up and massively introverted, and still am to this day in many circles. But my parents forced me to go to public speaking and drama school. And so I would go for three hours a day, three days a week, nine hours a week all year round.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  That's a lot of time.

• 13:40Jay Shetty?

  It's a lot of time. And as I improved in both those areas of my life, that's where I would feel at home. And now I started to have more confidence in different circles, and you can move that around. And I was speaking to my friend recently, one of my closest friends, his son's like 10 years old. And he was saying that he's struggling with confidence. And I said exactly what you just said. I was like, well, have you helped him get good at something? I was like, you know, what is he interested in? What's he naturally gravitating towards that he could be encouraged in further? Because that would empower him, as you said.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 14:12Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's such a beautiful thing because we don't know what to validate ourselves through when we're kids. But hearing you reflect back on it makes sense. But I'm guessing at that time, there was a lot of stress. I mean, being a young kid whose parents are divorcing, like you said, like your mother's also experiencing mental health and drug abuse. Like, how were you making sense of that? Like, what helped you?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  It was hard to make sense of it. And I, part of my way of dealing with what was going on with my mother was to try to ignore it, honestly. And so I would... Pour myself into school, pour myself into music, pour myself into these things that kept me busy so I didn't think about everything that was happening in my family. And my dad did a great job of, you know, helping us, guiding us through it. We had a lot of extended family in our community, cousins, aunts, uncles, who helped fill in the gaps as well. And then we had people at school. I had a guidance counselor, he was one of the only black men that worked at my school, and he really like decided to take me and my older brother under his wing.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  And just was really helpful in just figuring out school, figuring out how to get into college, all these other things that my parents didn't really know how to help us with. We just were fortunate to have other people fill in the gap. You know, they say it takes a village to raise a child. And I think a lot of times when your parents aren't able to give you everything that you need, it's good to have other people in your life that can do it.

• 15:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, especially, especially now, I feel like, I feel like there's so, I'm not a parent yet, and of course you are, but it's like, there's so much pressure on two people to be everything to these new human beings.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  And what you realize is that, you know, you don't have to be everything. It's great to have other people around you, a village, a community. That's one of the things that was so difficult about the pandemic was that feeling that you didn't have that, you know, community support that most people normally have. That feeling of being disconnected and separated from a lot of people, despite all the technological ways that you can get in touch with them. It's nice to be in presence with people. And I think when people didn't have that, we're seeing the results of it with a lot of kids, learning loss and, and falling behind in school. And there's a lot of things that you just can't do remotely

• 16:40Speaker 02

  that you need that community support to do.

• 16:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, absolutely. I want to, I want to give a shout out to our community for staying with us through the pandemic, because for me, sitting with someone like this, face to face. Even for an interview, it's like the connection that you have with someone as opposed to through a screen.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:56Jay Shetty?

  It's just incomparable.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  It's it's different and uh we we made the most of of what we had to do during that time, but clearly it's preferable to be in person. And I think particularly for kids as they're trying to learn, they need that.

• 17:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, did you have to, you said then, I think you're so right, like as kids, we we ignore stuff like that. We try and avoid it. We try and, you know, we have to, we. And I loved what you said, you poured yourself into your music, you poured yourself in a school, and that's why outlets, artistic outlets are so fantastic to have as young people. Did you ever have to revisit it? Did you feel like it naturally just improved? There were changes or did you ever have to revisit that as an adult to be like? Do I, did you ever feel the need for any healing or did you feel that just naturally kind of came to a place?

• 17:40Speaker 02

  We needed to heal, we needed to forgive um our mother because we felt abandoned by her.

• 17:48Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  She eventually got sober, came back to her family. She healed in a lot of ways as well. And um you know, recovered in a lot of ways. And we still had to deal with forgiving her though, because I think when you feel let down by your parent. Part of what you need to do for your own growth is figure out how to forgive them and how to love them and not be held back by whatever resentment or anger or disappointment you might feel because if you continue to hold on to it, it actually hinders you. As much or more than it hinders anyone else, uh the person that may be the object of your forgiveness.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  That's great to forgive them, but it's just as important for you. Because that's the best way for you to go on and live the best life that you can live is to get that weight off of your shoulder. That you're holding on to.

• 18:46Jay Shetty?

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• 19:31Jay Shetty?

  that make it easy to filter, review and rate your candidates. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. So if you're a fan of this podcast and you want to try ZipRecruiter for free today, you need to remember our special URL, ziprecruiter.com/onpurpose. Once again, that's ziprecruiter.com/onpurpose. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. And it's almost hardest doing that with our parents. Because when we're young, you kind of see them as the person who's meant to be the caregiver and the safety.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think the letdown is bigger.

• 20:11Jay Shetty?

  Dramatic.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's dramatic because you expect them to, you know, they're supposed to have all the answers, they're supposed to do the right things, they're supposed to show you the way to do it. And then when they, when we realize they're not infallible and, and then they fall from grace in our eyes, I think the disappointment is even greater.

• 20:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, but I love that point you're making that there's, there's two sides and you got to experience the beauty of your mother's growth and transformation and change. But it's like that person's like, I'm back.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're like, you're like, oh, okay. You don't know, like you've gotten used to dealing with not being with them and not having them in your life. And my parents got remarried during this time and that was weird. Um, so it was like a lot of dealing with all those feelings, dealing with forgiveness. Wondering how to adjust to having that person back in your life.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  All of that, it was, it was very interesting.

• 21:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, mine was kind of the, the opposite where like I was encouraging my parents as a 10 year old to get a divorce. So I was seeing and experiencing and they would both tell me about what was going on. And I'd be like, I think you guys should separate because I want you both to be happy.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:21Jay Shetty?

  And we'll be happy. And then they stayed together until like three years ago.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:26Jay Shetty?

  They, they never separated until now. And I feel like they're so much happier and fulfilled because of it. But they were thinking they were staying together for the kids.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:35Jay Shetty?

  And, and as a kid, I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, I don't think this.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  That's so interesting. Well, yeah, I, I think when my parents got divorced, both times, it was the right thing. They, they got divorced twice, so they're not together now.

• 21:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  My dad's remarried and my mom hasn't, but uh, both times, I think it was the right thing to do. I wasn't actively encouraging it when I was younger. It was traumatic for me when I was younger. But um, it was the right thing to do.

• 22:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How are you finding that now, being a parent yourself? Like, what are the, what are the parts of this journey that kind of influence your approach now? Because you are aware that we are not perfect, any one of us.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm aware we're not perfect, but I, I do feel, I think Chrissy and I both really believe in the idea of creating like stability in our home for our kids. Showering them with love and encouragement, teaching them about what it means to be kind, what it means to be loving, what it means to be generous, what it means to be passionate about something and pursue it. All of those things we want for them and we want them to see in us a loving relationship that teaches them what love is supposed to feel like and what it's supposed to be like. I want us to be a great example of what love means for them and how they should expect a partner to treat them,

• 22:59Speaker 02

  how they should treat their partner. I want to be a good example for them and I think Chrissy does too. And um, yeah, I don't want to get divorced. I know that.

• 23:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  I really, truly, you know, and you've come from a situation where you're like, well, they should have gotten divorced. This is the right thing for them to do. But, but I also am like, oh. I really want a stable home for our kids.

• 23:23Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  And I want them to be surrounded by love and to see in us an example of what love means. And hopefully, we can maintain that for decades and decades to come. Like, I want us to be grandparents, having them over for Sunday dinner. And like, I want that for us.

• 23:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I wish that for you too. Definitely, that's beautiful. And I don't disagree with you. I think the point you made there is so clear that you want what stability means. And I think what sometimes adults don't recognize is staying together is unstable.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Sometimes it is.

• 23:58Jay Shetty?

  Sometimes.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:59Jay Shetty?

  But there's always going to be some instability, instability, of course. But I think that's the challenge. Like, we usually see togetherness as stability and breaking up as instability. But often, if two people are together, but it's causing more stress. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand.

• 24:40Jay Shetty?

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• 25:22Jay Shetty?

  Head to orangetheory.com/onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you.

• 26:04Jay Shetty?

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• 26:25Speaker 02

  It's true, and there's definitely circumstances like that. God forbid that happens to us.

• 26:29Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no, of course, yeah, no, no, definitely, no. And by the way, it's so interesting what you're saying because I literally just spoke, I just interviewed Dr. Gabor Maté. And he's like a healing and trauma expert and researcher, he's like in his seventies, I think, right? And so he's been doing this his whole life, like looking at trauma, looking at addiction, looking at children. And he literally just said, well, you just said, where it's like, you can't love your kids too much, like, you know, giving them a safe, loving environment. And I think for a long time I confused love and safety. And I realized like safety was really what you needed as a child.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Yes, you really do. Yeah, I really truly believe that. And we want to have them feel safe and surrounded by love and care. It doesn't mean you don't want to allow them to make mistakes. But you do want them to feel like they can make mistakes in safety. And I think when people feel unsafe, it contributes to fear, contributes to trauma. And a lot of things that make their responses unhealthy as they get older because if they're dealing with so much fear and danger in their lives, it affects the way they respond to stimuli.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  It affects the way they deal with fight or flight and all these things that kind of, these mechanisms that your body has to deal with trauma and fear. Like if they get activated too much, then it's hard for them to cope with life.

• 27:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. When someone's as exceptional as you are at what you do.

• 28:06Jay Shetty?

  I want to hear about like, what was the hardest part about getting that good? Like, what was the, when was it challenging to pick up an instrument? Or, or learn an element of music? Like, what was the, was there ever? Or did it just, was it just so natural and effortless? That it's always been that way?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  There's always effort. And I think, um, part of it is like figuring out what you want to specialize in, what you want to do really well. Like, I play the piano pretty well, but I'm not like an expert concert pianist. Like, I've seen what they can do and I can't do it. And, um, I got good enough at the piano to accompany myself, to accompany others, to write and to perform live. But people that focus on playing the piano are much better at playing the piano than I am. What I've chosen to focus on is being the best singer songwriter that I can be. So I spent a lot of time focusing on my voice, focusing on songwriting. So those are the, the two most important things for me. And those are the things that I spend the most time and energy on.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  And it's not easy to write songs and it doesn't come automatically. But I've developed ways of getting, getting to that point where I'm pretty good at writing a song. And even my worst songs are pretty good. That didn't come automatically, though. It came through like just writing a lot, listening to a lot of music, but also writing a lot of music and trying different ideas, seeing them work.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And collaborating with other people who push me and bring out the best in me and give me new ideas. All of that made me a better writer, but it wasn't easy and it wasn't automatic.

• 29:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there's often a perception that people have that the way you write songs or whatever is that when someone's going through emotional turmoil. Their artistic expression is heightened. And then when their external circumstances are less stressful, it can be harder to find creativity. Is that true? Is that accurate? Or have you found that you can always, or you have a method to always tap it? Because your songs are like, your lyrics are highly emotive. Your songs are about real issues in your life. It doesn't matter whether your external life has changed. How have you continued to be able to access that? Because I think some people think, oh, when my life was hard, I wrote my best music. And now that my external life is simpler, because there's no easy life. My external life is simpler.

• 30:36Jay Shetty?

  I kind of find it harder to access.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  I've gotten so experienced at writing that I can turn it on pretty much at any point. But one of the ways I do that is by bringing other people in the room. And so that way, you're not always relying on your own inspiration, which may be hard to summon sometimes. And I think because I've been such a promiscuous collaborator, it enables me to stay refreshed as a creative person. Because even if I don't immediately have an idea, I could be in a room with someone who does. And then I can bounce off of that,

• 31:21Speaker 02

  build on that, and we can create something together. And then also have quite a bit of methodology around my songwriting that makes it easier for me to tap into my creativity and tap into that inspiration. So that when I have it, I'm able to go from inspiration to completion in a way that's tried and true for me. And that's what I spend a lot of time on in the masterclasses, just explaining, you know, like, this is my methodology for writing a song. The inspiration's going to come from different places. Sometimes it comes just from, I dream about a song, and I sing it into my phone and remember it that way, record it for later, and then go to completion when I go back to the studio and like, sit down to write. But either way, the inspiration's going to come at some point. Sometimes it's just...

• 32:06Speaker 02

  A riff that somebody else plays or a beat that someone else plays. And then it leads me into a vocal melody. And a vocal melody leads me into like a feeling of like, this is what this song feels like to me. This is what the story is that I want to tell. And then I know how to build a song pretty easily from those kind of seeds of ideas. And yeah, that's what I spent a lot of time on in the master classes, just teaching that once you get this seed of an idea, here's how you take it to a complete song. And it works really well for me because it makes it so that I can write, once I have the idea, write pretty quickly.

• 32:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I think I want to unpack that for everyone because I think from anyone that I've sat down with, who I believe is extremely high performing in their space. Obviously, everyone on a master class is at that level in their field. And then when I've sat down with people like Kobe Bryant as well, or like Novak Djokovic or Jennifer Lopez, it's like everyone always talks about this balance with what you're saying perfectly is like, there's inspiration and then there's regulation. There's like actual methods, processes, structure. It's like we all think that there's a magic moment, which it sounds like there is. But then that magic needs to turn into a method in order to actually turn into something beautiful.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and the people that you were referring to, like Kobe, he was so naturally gifted, so he had this God given gift to be this amazing athlete. But he took the gift, which some people have and don't maximize it like he did. He took that gift and worked so hard, practiced so hard, spent so much time in the gym. Like, there needs to be more to your your ability than this natural ability. It needs to be cultivated, it needs to be honed, it needs to be practiced. And with songwriting, I've gotten to that point where it's not just, oh, I have a gift for music. Oh, I can sing. Oh, I have a good ear.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  It's, oh, I've spent a lot of time honing my craft as a songwriter. And it helps me figure out how to take this idea and make it a song that works.

• 34:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I love how everyone's different. Like, I completely agree with you. Like, when I'm doing this, it's like even though I'm not in the same field as you, you could say something. I'm like, oh, that, I need to do more of that.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  I think, I mean, and when you, when Kobe passed, I spent a lot of time just thinking about. Just like what it takes to be someone like him. And I think it really inspired me. It's like you really like, if you want to be great, if you want to be like world changingly great at something, you got to put in the time and energy to do that. And it can be inspiring to see examples of that in the world. And then say, yeah, I want to be more like that.

• 34:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, even when you're giving the example of when you're in the studio and you're bringing people in, like for me, the podcast is like that. Like I sit down with people that I'm not in the field of at all.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:02Jay Shetty?

  And I get to, I'm like, oh, that's how they do it in their field. How can I apply that to mine? And I think that's what Masterclass does great, but there's we had Russ on, the rapper. And he was talking about the opposite where he was like, I don't like having anyone in the room with me because if people are in the room with me, then I don't get to be silly or I don't get to be totally expressive. So he said to us, he was like, I get rid of everyone and then I make weird sounds into the microphone to see what works for me. Whereas if my boys were there, he was saying, if my boys were there, he was like, they're all laughing at me.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:35Jay Shetty?

  And so I'm wondering, who do you like having around you? Like, could you give us an example of some people that you've sat with that you're like, and they don't have to be even people that we know, there could be other people behind the scenes, but someone that you're like, oh yeah, when they're in the room, they kind of sparked me this way or that way.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Well, I, I take his point.

• 35:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  As saying, you don't want people around that aren't totally bought in creatively because you want people in the room that are in there to create something beautiful with you. And if they're there to be like, you're kind of, what my sense is, I don't know him and, and I don't know his friends, but what my sense is that he's saying like, he might want to be too cool around them.

• 36:16Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  And if he's too cool around them, he may not come up with the best art.

• 36:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  And I think it's important to have, I don't have random people in the studio when we write, like I have only writers in the studio and we just sit there and vibe off of each other and, and see where the vibe takes us. And hopefully everybody's bought in to the idea that we just want to make something amazing and something beautiful and something interesting and something that's a great song. And they're not worried about being cool, not worried about anything else other than let's make this great.

• 36:47Jay Shetty?

  That. Idea of being around people that you're okay to make mistakes around, be fearless around, like that's the kind of people you want in the room.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  And we just try things and I try not to have an ego about my ideas. So that means if like I, I do a thing called a mumble track usually where I just mumble a melody and see if we like it. And some of the other writers in the room may do the same thing. And I'm like, oh, I like their idea better than mine. And I think you need to have that openness to other people's ideas, that humility when you're a collaborator. And so I think part of what I'm really good at is that spirit of collaboration. So I understand that all the great ideas don't need to come from me. And that I can benefit from this other energy and creativity in the room and be open to it, you know?

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Be humble enough to receive it and not think that it all has to come from me.

• 37:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, egolessness is hard though, like that's like especially as you become more successful. Like I think that's something people struggle with because you have to trust yourself to some degree. So how did you?

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Well, I think so, well, the interesting thing about ego is like the people that you think of that have big egos are also very insecure. So it's like, it's very interesting thing about that combination of the inflated ego and the heightened insecurities at the same time. And it can be very debilitating when that's the issue because a lot of times when you hear, well, this artist, whenever they come, they won't let you look at them. They want this and that. And what I hear when I hear that is not, oh, they think so much, so highly of themselves. I think, oh, they're pretty insecure, probably. And so it's interesting thinking about that and what that means and what the kind of,

• 38:35Speaker 02

  I don't know what the psychology is behind that, but it's an interesting combination that I've observed in the world is that people that are seen as having big egos and being difficult to work with are also usually pretty insecure.

• 38:48Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. I think you're spot on. When I started the show, when I started interviewing people, I noticed that too, where there was natural social anxiety and a lot of people were just so used to being on when the camera was on. That that's when they came in a full force, but then when the camera was off, it's not that they didn't care, it's that they didn't even know how to connect because they've been so trained in that way. And so you're right, I think it's so interesting that from the outside, we can be like, oh, that person has an ego or they're being arrogant or they're, you know, they have a. They're braggadocious or they have a bravado, but it's not that.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, my assumption is that they're probably insecure. That's usually my assumption.

• 39:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. No, that's well said. I've got to give you a bit of context before this next question because I, so my wife, we've been married for 10 years now, sorry, married for six years, been together for 10 years. And she, my team was looking at the other day and she was reading a book. And they were like, oh, what are you reading? Cause she'd taken the cover off and they can tell. And she was like, oh, I'm reading my husband's book. Like, is it my book, which I wrote two years ago now, two and a half, two years ago. And they were like, what, have you not read it? Like, most of my teams read the book and she hadn't. And they're like, no, no. She was like, no, I never got around to it. You know, I read bits. So like, so my question is, I heard Chrissy said something similar where like, she sees the name of a song and then she's like wondering like, wait a minute, how did he call that the name of the song?

• 40:06Jay Shetty?

  Is she your number one fan? Does she listen to everything? Or, or do you often find that like, she's catching up with everyone else?

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Well, she doesn't love hearing like demo versions of songs. So she doesn't like to kind of be in the sausage making part of the album.

• 40:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Uh, and so she'd rather hear it once everything's done. And so that ends up meaning that she's like learning about things when, you know, close to when a lot of other people are learning about them too. Um, and so, yeah, there are times where she's like, oh, news to me.

• 40:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  But she, she just doesn't like to be in early on the process because she's found, I think from when we first started dating, that when she fell in love with the demo versions, that we changed them so much that she didn't like, you know, um, kind of falling in love with the early versions because it kind of almost disappointed her when the finished version was out. Because she felt like less connection to it. So she decided she just didn't want to be involved early on in the sausage making.

• 41:08Jay Shetty?

  Well, she has good reasoning. My wife just didn't have time for me. But I, I find that's interesting in couples, right? The idea of like, we were talking about being a good example as a couple and trying to build that loving relationship. Like, I find that in an immature stage in my relationship, I constantly wanted my wife to be my number one fan.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 41:27Jay Shetty?

  Like, I, there was a time where I was like, I wanted to read everything and listen to everything and watch everything and share everything and like, this, I'm talking about like, maybe like seven, eight years ago.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 41:36Jay Shetty?

  And then as time went on, I just started to realize, I was like, well, she's not with me for those things. Right? Like, she can support them and appreciate them. But she's living with the real me and is experiencing that. Like, I guess my question is like, how do couples appreciate and admire each other in an effective way? When often we just lean on our partner for validation and glorification often?

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I still really want Chrissy to be into my work.

• 42:04Jay Shetty?

  I love it.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  And, and, and I think more so because like, it just feels good as, to know that she has good taste and, and she loves music and that she likes something I did, like, you know, I'm like, that's awesome. And I want her to love it and I respect her a lot and I trust her a lot. And I feel like she has good taste. So if she likes something I did and she especially likes it, then that's a really good sign for me.

• 42:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Uh, so it feels good. Like, it's not that I'm insecure about it. It's that, like, I really want her to love it. And I want everyone to love it, but I want her to love it more.

• 42:40Jay Shetty?

  I know, I'm the same. I was doing something recently, but, but my wife's also the person that will give the most honest feedback.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:46Jay Shetty?

  Like, I will practice a presentation or whatever I'm doing in front of her, and she will just pick it apart. But I know she's doing it out of love because she also wants me to be incredible at what I do.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  And we help each other so much, uh, and we believe in, in each other and we support each other so much. So, you know, when she's working on a cookbook, I'm, you know, helping her, I'm tasting stuff, I'm doing whatever I can to help. And, um, you know, we collaborate on a lot of business things together. So there's a lot we do together, but she doesn't like to, uh, be in, in the weeds of my music creating, uh, career. But she goes to a lot of my shows. She always has feedback for, um, you know, how we can put the show together better, be more effective. At, um, you know, the setlist and arrangements and different things like that. She has ideas about how it should look and uh she's given me great feedback over the years on that kind of stuff.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  So I'm always happy when she's proud of me and when she's excited. That's when, you know, I feel very like, okay, we're doing something right here.

• 43:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I feel that. I can relate to that too. I'm like, if I do something and my wife's happy, it's a different, it's a different form of happiness.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Like my Vegas show, like I'm so proud of it, but um it was especially good for me to hear that she was so proud of it.

• 44:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  And, and so excited to show her friends and, you know, tell people about it. Cause that just, it was like, it's an, it's an extra good feeling when, when she says that.

• 44:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. No, I relate. And I, I think the question came from, I think it was when she said something about when she saw the song title. Uh, I don't love you like I used to.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  I don't love you like I used to. And that's an interesting song.

• 44:26Jay Shetty?

  It's a great song.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  For a couple, because it's like, um, when you go through things together, you learn more about each other.

• 44:33Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  You grow and it's not the same kind of love you had when you first met.

• 44:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Um, when we first met, we were like very attracted to each other. It was, it was, uh, our chemistry was great. Um, but that level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship. And love, when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more like, uh, more real than that. We've been through enough together where it's like really fortified us and made us stronger. And those tests have made us grow together and, and, you know, realize things about each other that we didn't know. And going through all of that.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Makes you be able to write and sing a song called I Don't Love You Like I Used To. It's it's different now, but it's better.

• 45:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I I love that song because I I felt the same way. I was just like, that is such a great title because you're like, oh, no. What's going on? And then you're like, no, actually, it's true. And I think the challenge with love is that we we've been programmed to believe that it should stay the same.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:43Jay Shetty?

  We've been programmed to believe that you should go recreate your first date and everything should feel like your first date. And it's almost like, well, what if it got better? You know, what if there's more? What were you like when you met Chrissy? And how have you evolved, do you think, as a as a man, as a human, as a person? Like, what what has evolved and grown about you in a positive way?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Well, I think I was more selfish then. Um, like, I wasn't a great partner at the beginning of our relationship, even though I was very into her and and um, very excited to be with her. Like, I was still selfish. Uh, I was in my, you know, mid twenties, still like, you know, not ready to fully be like the committed partner that I am now. But, you know, once you really figure out that you love someone and you really like, love so much about them and you really want to make it work with that person, like, you have to decide, like, I'm going to do the things I need to do to be a good partner in this relationship.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  And I've just grown uh, as a person because of that, too. Because when you stop being so selfish, when you think about not only the joy you get from a a situation and the pleasure you get from it, but also think about your responsibility and your commitment in that situation, I think you just grow and you mature. And that's, you know, I think part of it's just a matter of time. You need time to be come that person that you want to be. I think in your mid twenties, you're still dealing with impulse control. You're still dealing with selfishness. You're still figuring out what you want to do in your career. All these things are happening. But um. When you figure those things out, you can just be a better person in general. And I think it makes you better at other things, too.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  When you're, when you're able to understand that balance between what you're trying to get from a relationship, but also what you need to give to make it work.

• 47:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What, what did you think that you didn't value about her in the beginning? But today, like, you're like, oh, I noticed that more now. Like, I, I, I didn't even get that at that time because of my immaturity or earlyness.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Well, I, I feel like I've just learned so much about her personality, how she reacts to stress, how she reacts to life, how she can find a joke, even in like the craziest, even in grief, like she's able to find humor. And like, I feel like you see so many things about your partner as you grow together and as you experience adversity together. And what I've seen from her just made me love her more and value her more. Uh, like, I think she's cooler now than I've ever thought she was. Like, I just really have seen her in all kinds of situations. I just value her more and, and, and, and awe of her more than I ever have been.

• 48:31Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a seller or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip.

• 49:03Jay Shetty?

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• 49:46Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget, and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated, calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last, and it completely shifted the energy of the room.

• 50:28Jay Shetty?

  Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality, so you can shop with more confidence. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation, and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Beautiful, that's great. I wish the same for my marriage, too. It's definitely going to...

• 51:02Speaker 02

  I wish it for everyone, honestly. I love love. I went to two weddings this weekend.

• 51:07Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  And like, I truly like, I can, when I'm at these weddings, like, I genuinely get emotional and I genuinely feel like joy for this couple in embarking on this journey together. And I love celebrating that. I love... Seeing it flourish and seeing people who are committed to each other make it work. Like, I love it.

• 51:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, me too. I love love too. I've just written a whole new book about love.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:37Jay Shetty?

  It comes out next year, but it's like, I officiated two weddings in the last 12 months. And the difference, the pressure and the honor of doing that, my whole thought process in my head is, don't cry, don't cry, because I love love so much. And all I want to do is like, cry and just like appreciate the moment.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  I haven't had to officiate any weddings. I've sung quite a few.

• 51:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I can imagine, yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  But, uh, yeah, I got emotional this weekend and I think part of it is being a dad too now because, uh, when I watched, uh, the bride's dad walk her down the aisle, I got super emotional. I was just thinking about my daughter and thinking about my son and just thinking about, you know, just what it means to pour all this love into these little people and, and then to watch them grow up and, and experience life and find love. Uh, it was beautiful.

• 52:29Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing. I love that. I love that. And you mentioned grief and the new, uh, the song pieces in the new album, there's, there's the beautiful lyric, let your broken heart, learn to live in pieces. And I just, I literally just haven't stopped thinking about that because I think that there's so much about us that's constantly trying to get everything to fit. And even with a heart, we're trying to become whole again. Like, there's always that concept, but you're like, let your broken heart learn to live in pieces. Like, where did that come from? Like, that idea?

• 53:00Speaker 02

  The idea of the song is that we never completely shed or forget this trauma that we may go through in life. This loss, this heartbreak, like, we'll remember it. There'll be times when we'll feel those pangs of, of memory that it'll come back. Um, it doesn't mean you can't heal. It doesn't mean you can't recover. But it does mean that, that grief will, will still be a part of who you are, a part of your story. Effectively recovering from that means not forgetting it, not that it didn't happen, but learning to live with it and learning to continue to live with it and

• 53:41Speaker 02

  and experience life and joy and pain and all the things that come in life afterwards. Continue to like, live on.

• 53:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Despite the fact that this grief won't ever leave you completely.

• 53:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's almost, it's almost like we're asking the wrong question. We're always like, how do I move on? How do I get over this? And you're saying, well.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  And you're saying you're gonna, I'm saying you're gonna carry it. It's, it's, it's part of your life now. It's part of your story. Part of who you are. Like I said with Chrissy, like I've seen so much growth through our grief and through our tragedy. It's always gonna be part of who we are and I'm fine with that. Like it's part of who we are. It's, we carry it with us and it, and it's okay.

• 54:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that, and I'm sorry for your loss. And I'm like, you know, that, I mean, I don't think there's pretty much anything harder to go through than, than what you've been through.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  I've never been through anything harder, but it just means, you know, when you live long enough, you're gonna go through something like that. And figuring out how to continue to live as you carry that with you.

• 54:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Is, is what the song is really about.

• 54:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and often we find that those traumatic and difficult experiences can break people apart, but you, you, you focus on growing closer together.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:58Jay Shetty?

  What, what do you think is that difference? Like you, your values are so clear. I can tell in this interview, I'm like, values of children, of family, of love, of kindness, of connection. Like, how do you in moments like that, is it that your values just drive you forward or like, how do you make sure? Because I think sometimes people just have experiences that derail their, everything else that's going right.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't know because like, I think part of it is just we, we were already on a great foundation where we really respected and loved and enjoyed being with each other, respecting each other's values and the ways, you know. The things we saw in each other's character that we fell in love with are still there. But I think you also have to like commit to working through pain, you know? And I think we both committed to doing it, like doing the work that we needed to do to get through it.

• 55:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I'm happy to hear that and you know, my prayers and

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 55:54Jay Shetty?

  And good wishes with you and the family because.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think having already had two kids together was definitely helpful because they just bring so much joy into our lives and laughter and fun and they're a great focus for our energy. And so even when you're going through deep grief on losing a pregnancy, you still have these two beautiful babies that you love. And I think that was certainly helpful.

• 56:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, now the questions are moving into a selfish space where I'm asking just for me now. So how have you managed like what have you know, you've obviously have this beautiful relationship. You've got you've got two beautiful children that you both love. And you know, when I think about me and my wife, like we also spend a lot of time saying, look, let's stabilize our relationship first. Before we think about having kids, because we don't want to invite beautiful new souls into a relationship where we're not sure where we're going or how we're working together. How have you managed to be so career focused and successful and keep a relationship successful with this? Because I find a lot of people, having children can be the most stressful time of their life.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  It's stressful. I mean, first of all, we're very fortunate. We have lots of people around us to help us. We can afford, you know, childcare. We can afford a lot of things that there are plenty of families that can't afford. Having that is no small thing, like those having help, having my mother-in-law around, having, you know, grandparents around to help is like all these things are very helpful and they alleviate some of the stress. And make it easier for parents to balance it. But yeah, I do think you have to be ready to take on that responsibility. I think a lot of times, you know, it's about figuring out, is it the right time in both of your careers to do it?

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Particularly for the woman, like it can be very difficult to figure out when that can be because particularly in America, we don't have a lot of leave that's available for maternal or paternal leave. That's available for a lot of families. And there's all kinds of obstacles in the way that make it harder for people to be working parents. And so I think a lot of people are making decisions about when to have kids based on that. And that's a real like practical consideration that needs to be figured out for you to be able to handle it. Because a lot of the stress around parenting is around having the resources and the childcare that you need. And when that's not right, it can be stressful. It can be stressful in your marriage, it can be stressful in so many other things.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  And so, yeah. And my prescription that all those things need to be in order is like a hard prescription to fill though. Because it's like, it takes resources, it takes family, it takes, you know, everything being aligned. And everything's not going to be perfect for so many families. And they're still going to want to bring a life into the world. And, and yeah, it's a challenge.

• 58:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think those things changing, I mean, yeah, when I was, I was born and raised in London. And so when I worked there, like the maternity leave and the paternity leave was fantastic. I mean, it could be even better, but it was great. It was like at least six months and then you could extend for another six months if you needed it.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  And not to be nerdy, but like these are policy things that can affect people's decisions. And you know, we're having a lot of conversation around reproductive rights and whether the state can force people to have kids. And what I think our conservative fellow citizens should realize is that people sometimes would like to have kids, but they're not in a place to be able to afford it or take care of it. And so if there are policy solutions like child tax credits, free childcare, that would make it more likely that people would choose to have kids. And I think.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  There's so many families that could use that kind of support. And I feel like one way that we could come together, conservatives and progressives, is say, if you really believe in this idea that families are important as like a foundation for our society, and you want to do things to support people having children in their lives and building families, like one way to do that is make sure they have the resources to make that choice in a way that they can handle it and their family can handle it.

• 1:00:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, is that one of the areas that you've been focused on as you were speaking about earlier? Has that been an area of focus for you?

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Well, this is something I think about all the time. So I think about it when it comes to our schools, making sure our schools have the resources that they need, making sure our communities have the resources they need. And it's kind of the impetus behind my entire political kind of inclination is, how do we make our society more livable, more loving, more just, more equitable? And how do we support folks who don't have the resources they need right now? How do we make sure they get those resources?

• 1:01:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  And so a lot of times, my work has been about the criminal justice system. But what I like to do is point out the choices that we make around criminal justice and how they are resource choices as well.

• 1:01:19Jay Shetty?

  They're more interconnected.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  Yes, they're more connected. Because when we spend so much of our societal energy and resources and budgets on policing and locking people up, that necessarily precludes us from investing that money in other things. And so my advocacy work has really been around, let's invest in these things that are edifying, that are building, that are productive, that are loving, that are just, and... Not invest as much as we have in the things that are more destructive and more about the state monopolizing force and violence through policing and jailing people.

• 1:02:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, thank you so much for going nerdy on us. It was good. We had to. No, it's important. You know, I think it's, I think it is important to see the interconnectedness of a value of, you know, family man, children, and then how that actually scales up to an economy and a society because we can have these in our small units.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23Jay Shetty?

  But it needs to change it.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  And I get into arguments, you know, with friends of mine who I'm close with and, you know, they'll, they'll see these news stories about crime going up and robberies going up and, and, and they'll always kind of default to, well, we just got to punish people more, like, make them scared to do these kinds of things. And what I'm always thinking about is, well, how do we create a society where just less of that is happening? How do we create a society where people are healthier, they have the resources they need? They're not homeless, they're not addicted to drugs, and when they are, they're being treated and not punished. Like, how do we create a society like that? And then a lot of these issues with violence and with property crimes and all these other

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  things, they'll go down if we're investing in the kind of preventative measures that would make us healthier in general.

• 1:03:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. You were speaking about, you know, the journeys of people, like, from everyone that you were homeschooled around or in your community, like, the journey that you've taken is, I'm guessing, obviously, that's very unique. It's very different. When you, when you look back on your life now, it's like, A, what's there, like, what keeps you going? And when you look back, what do you look back at and go, that was really special and that was beautiful and that was something that I always cherish?

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  What keeps me going? Well, part of it is just the joy I get from creating new things. It's a very, like, amazing sense of gratification that you get when you walk into a room and nothing exists.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Except, you know, loose ideas in your head. And then a few hours later, like you walk out with this new thing that exists. It's a song. And like, that song could be the one that changes your life. It could mean something to all kinds of other people. I, I just, uh, at the wedding, I went to one of the weddings I went to this weekend. Some guy said, I went to your show and it actually saved my marriage. And like, I could be writing that song that saved someone's marriage, uh, tomorrow. And the fact that I get to go to work and create something brand new that didn't exist before is such a joy and I truly, like, I want to do it all the time. That keeps me going. And then, um, being on stage is really exciting for me and fun.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  I love the connection I feel with the audience. I love when the show just feels like everybody's clicking on all cylinders. We're doing this together. We've got band members, dancers, singers, everybody came together to put the show on. And we get it right and we feel the energy from the crowd and we feel the love from the crowd. And we're giving it to them, they're giving it back. And we feel this connection and this chemistry, this energy that we're all creating together. I love it. I truly love it and I want to do it as long as, as long as people will listen to me.

• 1:05:20Jay Shetty?

  I, I think that's gonna be a long time. So, who's someone that, you spoke about collaborations. Who's someone that's no longer with us that you would have loved to have collaborated with in person? Or that you think could have like, brought something out of you that?

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Nina Simone. I'm a big Nina Simone fan. I named my daughter Luna Simone after her. And, and I, um, I've always loved her artistry and I would just love to jam with her. It would be so fun. She's such a great musician and has such a cool approach to arranging songs. She always did such interesting covers of songs too. Like, she would do like the definitive cover of so many songs. Just because her musicianship and her point of view is so interesting. I would love to just soak in that for a little while.

• 1:06:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And what about someone who's alive that you haven't collaborated with yet? Someone that you? Find inspiring in any field of music.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Uh Kendrick Lamar I love. I just went to see his show.

• 1:06:13Jay Shetty?

  That hasn't happened yet.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  No. Like I've worked with almost every rapper in history. But Kendrick I'm truly a fan of and I went to go see his show this weekend and love his new album, love all of his albums. I just think the level of artistry and care that he puts into everything is just so impressive. He's one of my favorite artists in any genre right now. I think he's just incredible.

• 1:06:37Jay Shetty?

  I love that. When you're working on an album, like how much? Because you're someone who works consistently on an album for a long amount of time before it comes out, right? Like there's not always new music all the time. What kind of in that creative process? Like how do you stay inspired in the ups and downs and the ebbs and flows of a long creative process? Which is rare nowadays. Like when you speak about someone like Kendrick, right? Like everyone talks about Kendrick as someone who worked on an album for a couple of years, which used to be the norm and it's rare.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  It's still the norm for me.

• 1:07:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like making an album is about a two-year process for me and I try to put them out every two or three years. But you're not always going to be inspired every day. But there's always another day and you know, most albums, you know, around an hour, a little bit less, a little bit more. I did a double album this time. It's an hour 20 minutes. But like over a two-year period, I'm going to have enough inspiration to make an hour.

• 1:07:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  So there'll be days when, you know, you don't feel it and uh like I said, one of my best ways of combating any kind of writer's block is having other energy around me and other creative people in the room so that I feel like I can get inspired by things that are outside of my own head.

• 1:07:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Um and so I think that's important. Scheduling the time to write, I think is important rather than just kind of waiting around for inspiration randomly to hit.

• 1:08:01Jay Shetty?

  Structure.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Because you need, I think you need to actively summon that uh rather than just kind of uh. Hoping it'll uh gonna knock you over the head every once in a while.

• 1:08:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  Um you you need to actively summon it. And so for me, scheduling the time is important, too.

• 1:08:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Do you do you have any like weird quirks or habits to help summon that moment? Or like some kind of things that you need around you or any items or things you need to see? Or the or is it more like just scheduling, planning, structure?

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  And then you you want the inspiration to come and like it could come from a movie you saw or just a line from the movie. Uh inspiration could come from a song you listen to in the car on the way to the studio. Um inspiration could come from just a random conversation you had where just this line like stuck out to you. And then, like I said before, a lot of it's through collaboration. So a producer may come in. Um and he have a track or she'll have a track and play it for you. And it's just music, but it it speaks to you and you'll feel something from it and then build a song from that. Um and so those are different ways inspiration comes.

• 1:09:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What what's been the difference about the first day? When you stepped into a studio like to now, when you step in, like what were the emotions and the feelings then? What's changed? What stayed the same?

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  Well, I I think I have a better understanding of what I want to do now when I go in the studio. I think um before I just had less creative confidence, I think. And I've earned it through just work.

• 1:09:32Jay Shetty?

  Time, time.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  Like time, work, repetition, like I've just written a lot. And when I walk in the studio now, I just feel like I know how to write a song. I know how to write a really good song. And I just need to like work on it. I need to spend the time, spend the energy and do all those things to get inspired, like I said before, and then I'll figure it out.

• 1:09:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. John, you've been so gracious with your time and energy.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:09:58Jay Shetty?

  I have loved this conversation.

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  This is fun.

• 1:10:00Jay Shetty?

  We've gone everywhere. Like we just we talked about relationships. We talked about children. We talked about your childhood. Like it's been so beautiful. We we end every episode with two segments.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:10:08Jay Shetty?

  Uh one's a fast five, quick question. So one word to one sentence answers maximum. Uh and then I'll tell you about the other one. So John Legend, these are your fast five.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:10:17Jay Shetty?

  Uh question number one, what's the best advice you've ever received?

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  I love Quincy Jones advice. He says, steal from the best.

• 1:10:24Jay Shetty?

  Nice.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  That means, you know, be open to being influenced and like take some of that.

• 1:10:29Jay Shetty?

  That's a great answer.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Listen to different artists uh that you love and like. Think about how to incorporate their artistry into what you do. And I think the more, I know this is longer than a sentence.

• 1:10:40Jay Shetty?

  It's good, it's a good answer.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  But I think the more, the more you do it.

• 1:10:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  You just start to develop who you are. But it's informed and inspired by all your influences.

• 1:10:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, love that answer. You're allowed. It's good. You're allowed to go. Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't really catalog bad advice. One thing we laughed about was Kanye didn't like the title Ordinary People for a song.

• 1:11:10Jay Shetty?

  Wow, yeah, of course.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  He changed his mind after a while. At first he's like, he's like, can you come up with a better?

• 1:11:18Jay Shetty?

  But it went out that way. It never got changed?

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  No, it never got changed.

• 1:11:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it never got changed.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Never got changed. But it was his idea. He was like, can you come up with something better to say than that? But eventually he fell in love with it and ended up directing the video for it. And it became, you know, obviously a very important song at the beginning of my career. But we always thought it was funny that he was like, I'm not sold on this Ordinary People idea.

• 1:11:44Jay Shetty?

  I love that. Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know. Well, I mean, we just go through different phases in life. And I think I wanted like a certain kind of freedom when I was younger. When I was a bachelor and, you know, you like treasure this kind of freedom and living like without as many commitments. But then you fall in love and you have kids with someone and then like the commitment and the and the responsibility is like, is like, is life defining in so many ways? And

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  You don't value that, that kind of freedom that you thought you wanted before.

• 1:12:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. We never, never had that answer before. That's, that's a special one. All right. Question number four. The podcast is called On Purpose. So how would you define your current purpose in life?

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  My purpose is to bring love into the world. It's so much the core of who I am artistically, but also politically. I think love is like, I'm not religious. Love is my religion.

• 1:12:54Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful. And fifth, the final question for the fast five is if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  Oof, one law.

• 1:13:04Jay Shetty?

  We ask this to every guest. You're getting asked the same questions as every guest.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I want to go back to love one another.

• 1:13:13Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Let's love each other. Yes.

• 1:13:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  That's very Christian. It's like the part of our, Jesus's two commandments were that you would love God and that you would love your neighbor as you loved yourself. And if you think about that idea of loving your neighbor as yourself, it's a pretty powerful idea.

• 1:13:33Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  And if that were to guide our behaviors and our politics and, and, and just the way we treated each other, it would be, I don't know, a pretty good world to live in.

• 1:13:44Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. And these, these ones are going to be shorter. This is a, a segment called The Many Sides to Us. And so again, this can be one word for each one, literally one word. So what is a word to describe what someone would say about you, meeting you for the first time?

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  Calm.

• 1:14:01Jay Shetty?

  Definitely. You were very calm when you came in today. I would, I would have to agree with that. We walked over, you were very calm.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't have a lot of like highs and lows. I'm very even keel through life, which can be frustrating. Like as a partner, like Chrissy would like for me sometimes to be a little more dynamic, but, but I think, you know, it's also like, it's a gift and a curse. Because when you're going through like tough times and you need stability and you need a rock around you, I can be your rock.

• 1:14:32Jay Shetty?

  Well, that's why you need the humor and the spontaneity.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's why we're good together.

• 1:14:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's my wife too. My wife's the spontaneous one. I'm the even keel one.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:40Jay Shetty?

  That works for us. All right. Question number two. What's a word to describe what someone would describe you that knows you very well?

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  I think honestly, so much of how my friends will describe me is that I'm an even keel person, that I'm a calming presence and that I don't have a lot of highs and lows. So I think people that first meet me think that, but people that know me for a long time think that as well.

• 1:15:02Jay Shetty?

  Oh, that's good. That's not a bad thing. All right. Question number three. What is a word? This time you can't say the same answer.

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:15:09Jay Shetty?

  Because we're gonna have the same answer. But the first two made sense. What is a word you'd use to describe yourself?

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  Creative. I love, I love to create and I love putting new things out into the world.

• 1:15:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What's a word that someone that maybe doesn't agree with you would say about you?

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  Well, let me think.

• 1:15:26Jay Shetty?

  Or they don't vibe with you.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Let me go to my Twitter mentions.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  Well, I think people that don't know me.

• 1:15:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, people that don't know you.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  They know me, you know, they know that I call myself John Legend. That was an assumed stage name. I wasn't born that. So they probably think I'm pretty arrogant. Um, you know, I don't think I am, but you know, I could give off that sense that, you know, I'm pretty arrogant.

• 1:15:51Jay Shetty?

  Right. Okay. All right. And question number five, the last one. What's a word that you're trying to embody?

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Love.

• 1:15:57Jay Shetty?

  Love. I love it. John Legend, everyone. The master class on songwriting. John Legend teaches. Songwriting is available right now. I hope you go and subscribe to master class. Genuinely, it is a phenomenal platform. When you get access to all these incredible thinkers, leaders, teachers, guides. When you sign up, as I said, I've been a subscriber since Bob Iger's and I cannot wait. I, I, can I become a good songwriter, John? That is the question, even though.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 1:16:25Jay Shetty?

  I did grade five theory.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  I feel like there has to be some level of foundational musical understanding.

• 1:16:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  Um, to use my class, but I think if you have that, it can be really helpful.

• 1:16:37Jay Shetty?

  Well, I did grade five theory. I played piano up to grade four.

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:41Jay Shetty?

  And I used to play percussion, but I haven't done it since I was 12.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  And you may need like a collaborator, like an instrumentalist, like a guitarist or pianist with you to help you kind of have some music theory because I can't, in my class, I don't teach you a lot of like how to play the instrument.

• 1:16:56Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  But I teach you how to take the knowledge that you have and build a song from it.

• 1:17:02Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I love it. John, well, I hope we get to bump into each other again.

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  Absolutely, Jay. This is a true pleasure.

• 1:17:07Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, man. Thank you so much for your time and energy. Great to meet you.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:17:10Jay Shetty?

  And everyone who's been listening, watching back at home or wherever you are, if you're on the move, make sure that you tag John and I on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok. Let us know what stood out to you, what you learned, what you gained. Maybe there were some amazing experiences that you didn't know anything about. I love seeing what you take away, what you learn. Make sure you share that with both of us, and I'll see you at the next episode.

• 1:17:39Speaker 03

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• 1:17:46Jay Shetty?

  They all keep the blame on me.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped brewing? You start, you freeze to death. That's what.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:18:03Speaker 04

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:18:04Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:18:11Speaker 05

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• 1:18:33Speaker 06

  Espolone Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof. Copyright 2026. Compaia America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.

• 1:18:41Speaker 07

  Every mile matters. Whether you're driving your dream car or your daily commuter, the Mobile One team knows that. It's why we created Mobile One Advanced Clean Motor Oil. It cleans your engine in one oil change and helps extend engine life, delivering performance, protection, and cleanliness for vehicles of all ages. All to help keep your engine running like new, whatever you're driving. Visit mobileone.com/advancedclean to learn more.