How Successful People Train Their Brain For Optimal Performance

Dr. Amen studies the brain, Tana Amen studies the body and soul. Together, the Amen’s promote brain health as the key to addressing mental challenges like depression. In this episode of On Purpose, Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen talk with Jay Shetty about the importance of brain health in addressing mental challenges. Dr. Amen is an accomplished psychologist and author of over 40 books, including his most recent The End of Mental Illness. Tana is also a best-selling author of the Omni Diet, nurse, and health and wellness specialist. In this episode, the Amen’s provide easy to start steps in caring for your brain and promoting a happier, healthier you. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:30Jay Shetty?

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• 2:16Jay Shetty?

  And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1

• 2:59Jay Shetty?

  Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:12Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you. Today what you're going to hear is a conversation between me and power couple Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana. Dr. Amen, the director of Amen Clinic, has worked in the world of psychiatry for 40 years. His wife, Tana Amen, is a world renowned wellness expert and New York Times bestselling author of The Omni Diet. Today, we have a conversation about the internal and external conditions that contribute to mental health. As we all are confronted with internal and external stresses, this conversation with Dr.

• 3:54Jay Shetty?

  Amen and Tana will give you another perspective on how to approach the healing process. Dr. Amen, Tana, and I had this conversation over Instagram Live a few weeks back during my Mental Health Day series. And I'm really excited to share this conversation with you today on On Purpose. Share what you learned from it, or any questions that came up for you, and tag Dr. Amen, Tana, and I on Instagram.

• 4:22Jay Shetty?

  Hey, how's it going?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Hi Jay.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Hi Jay.

• 4:26Jay Shetty?

  I'm so happy to see you both. Thank you so much for tuning in. How are you?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks for having us.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  We are awesome and happy to hang out with you.

• 4:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love having you here and I'm so glad that my audience is gonna get to tap into both of your geniuses and your mind today and all your great insight and advice. So this is day three of our online Mental Health Festival and I want to hear from both of you about your incredible insights and I want to start with you. Dr. Raymond, based on something we talked about in my podcast, and I remember you redefining our challenge as not being mental health, but brain health. And when you shared this with me, this was truly unique, something I'd never heard before. And I'd love for you to share that with everyone who's listening and watching today.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Well, thank you so much. Having you brought the end of mental illness, where I argue, you know, I've been a psychiatrist almost 40 years and I've always hated the term "mental illness" because it shames people. When you call someone "mental," that's not a good thing. It's stigmatizing. And then about 30 years ago, I started looking at the brain and I realized most psychiatric problems are not mental health issues at all, rather they are

• 5:51Speaker 01

  brain health issues. And this one idea just changes everything. Get your brain right and your mind will follow. And very few psychiatrists, psychologists ever talk about brain health. You need to eat right. You need to exercise. You need to take your supplements. Because if the hardware of your soul, your brain, is not right, it won't run the software program.

• 6:24Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. Truly, every time I hear you say that, I'm like, oh, gosh, I need to start focusing on my brain more. So it's a great reminder for all of us, and I would encourage everyone to go and get a copy of The End of Mental Illness, to get that beginning journey of where to start and any of Dr. Amen's work. But Tana, you obviously just recently are about to release this incredible book called The Relentless Courage of a Scared Child. And I haven't had an opportunity to sit with the book yet, and I'm excited. I know we're going to figure out how to get you on the podcast and have a conversation in deeper. I'd love to do that.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 6:59Jay Shetty?

  But tell me about this. I love the title and I love the cover. I have it here, and every time I look at the cover, it's captivating. It's captivating because it kind of just brings me into that feeling of being a scared child. And I think all of us are carrying around a scared child inside of us. So tell me what that title means to you and how that connects with mental health.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  So I grew up in a very chaotic environment, as did so many of us. Very chaotic, very lots of trauma, lots of addiction, lots of mental illness, or what we call mental challenges. And as a result, out of my own survival, I learned to build walls, isolate, pull away from people, disconnect. And, you know, if you don't want to reconnect with people and you don't want to have, or if you want to stay disconnected, here's just a little tip, FYI, don't marry a psychiatrist who wants to fix everybody. So Daniel's always nudging me to reconnect and be curious instead of furious. It's like, why did they behave that way? Maybe it's not all just about willpower. Did they have a head injury? We look at, we

• 8:03Speaker 02

  look at mental health through four circles: biological, you know, how is your body functioning? Psychological, your mind, spiritual, what is your meaning and purpose? And social, who are you connected to? Because people are contagious. And when I started thinking about my family through that lens, it was uncomfortable, because I really wanted to stay disconnected and distant from all that chaos. But then all of a sudden, I felt this... This level of responsibility, and I love the word responsibility because it means the ability to respond. It doesn't mean taking blame, it means the ability to respond.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  So, writing my story was one of the most powerful things I could do. It really was uncomfortable, but gave me the opportunity to see some of the chaos and some of the trauma through an adult lens, and just heal, and see that many of these people were doing the best they could with what they had, because it was pretty crazy.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Well, and it's beau- it's not only beautifully written, it's fun, it's funny, it's disturbing, you know, to just talk about. One of my favorite stories in the book is how she disconnected from her dad, who was a pastor who embezzled from the church and cheated on, I mean, it was just not good, and she had pushed him away, but when we first dated, he had just been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. And I'm like, well, I have to see him.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  And I'm like, no, this is like Jerry Springer material, we're not bringing him into my life.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  And I found through imaging that he didn't have Alzheimer's disease, he had something called pseudodementia, which is severe depression that masquerades as Alzheimer's disease. And over this next six months, he went from being a recluse to someone who was giving all-day seminars at the church. And even though he died five years later, it had nothing to do with his mind, he died with a very clear mind in Tana's arms.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  With me praying for him. And I realized in that moment, one of the big lessons in my book, one of the big overarching themes is, sometimes you're called to do something that you don't want to do, and you don't realize that the help might be for someone else, but the healing is for you. So, don't, don't, don't rob yourself of those opportunities to heal by helping someone else, even when it's uncomfortable.

• 10:26Jay Shetty?

  That's a really interesting perspective, and I love that redefinition of the word responsibility. I've never, ever heard that, never thought of it like that. The ability to respond, not taking blame, not feeling guilty, not, not saying, now I have to sort this out, but just actually saying, well, let, let me find the ability to respond. I think that's incredible. Now, Dr. Raymond, I know I was speaking to your team and they shared these incredible statistics with me from your work. You know, this is, this is what they shared. Every 14 minutes, someone commits suicide in the United States. Every eight minutes, someone dies of a drug overdose. And according to a large epidemiological study, 51% of the US population will struggle with a mental health issue at some point in their lives. Where do we start?

• 11:11Jay Shetty?

  Because I think looking at those stats, we all know someone or know of someone who's going through this right now, even if it's not ourselves. Where do we start? What's step one? And I'd love to hear from both of you and both of your unique approaches as to how you think people need to start.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Well, those statistics are actually from before the pandemic. So before March, 8% of the population struggled with significant depression, which has been creeping up over the last decades. In September, it was 27% just with depression. So the mental health challenges have skyrocketed. I have never seen suicide at this level, the level of hopelessness. And when the pandemic started for me, it was actually March 10th. The end of mental illness had just come out. I had a trip, it was gonna be a special show in New York, and that got canceled.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  And that night, I wrote down, "Mental hygiene is just as important as washing your hands." So where we all start, the end of mental illness will begin with a revolution in brain health. That we see this organ, I'm in a new docu-series with Justin Bieber called Seasons. And it came out, I've been his doctor for a long time. And I love Justin, but like many celebrities, sometimes he'd do it, I'd say, and often he wouldn't. But he came into my office and he said, "My brain is an organ, just like my heart is an organ. If you told me I had heart problems, I'd do everything you said."

• 12:53Speaker 01

  And that's how we need to start the revolution is love, honor, take care of the brain. And it's super simple. It's three strategies. Brain envy, you gotta care about it. Avoid things that hurt your brain, know the list, and do things that help. And the little tiny habit, I talk about many tiny habits in the end of mental illness. But the one that's the most important is you go through your day. Ask yourself, whatever you're doing, is this decision good for my brain or bad for it? And if you can start answering that with information and love, love of yourself, love of your family, love of your mission,

• 13:35Speaker 01

  you're gonna start feeling better from a mental health perspective because ultimately, your brain creates your mental health.

• 13:45Jay Shetty?

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• 14:28Jay Shetty?

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• 15:11Jay Shetty?

  Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and calories, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind.

• 15:54Jay Shetty?

  Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. Ken, I'd love to hear your perspective. Where do people start when you hear those statistics? I saw your reaction on your face immediately. And now that we know that those stats were from before the pandemic, and Dr. Ravens has told us that it's actually 27%, I mean, where do people start?

• 16:14Speaker 02

  So I, I mean, I agree with my husband 100%, but for me, it's more personal. It's one of the things I write about in my book. It's, it's, my heart goes out to people who are struggling with this right now because there was a point in my life where I wanted to be dead. I fortunately didn't have it within me to take my own life, but I kept praying that a truck would hit me or something would happen so it wasn't my fault because I was wasting oxygen on the planet. When I met my husband and I started learning about our work and looking at, looking at mental health through that lens of the four circles, because I had cancer, I had all these things that happened in my life, besides the trauma growing up, that just devastated me and it all crashed in at one time. When I really understood those four circles, the biology, the psychology, the social circle,

• 16:59Speaker 02

  the spiritual circle, and I realized how bankrupt I had become in all of them, right? It's like four tires on a car. If one goes flat, the car will drive for a while. Not well, but it'll drive. If two go flat, you're probably gonna crash. And I had crashed. I had four tires that went flat. So it, it, the car kinda flipped. And so when I look at it through those circles, when I met my husband, I started to really look at it. I'm a neurosurgical ICU nurse, so for me, it was all biology. It was just like, get this person, you know, stop the bleeding. Uh, but when I really started to understand this, I was like, it was so freeing for me. It released the shame. And if I could tell people watching one thing, if you're struggling with this right now, I wanted to be dead and I'm not. It's the worst time in my life.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  It was a pain like nothing I've ever experienced. I wanted to rip my skin off, only I couldn't. Couldn't get away from the pain. It's not like a toothache where you can take a pill. It's something you can't escape. But what I couldn't know then, that I know now, is that that pain, all of that pain, all of that shame, all of everything I felt back then, there's no way I could know that that would be the thing going forward that would become my purpose in life.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  So please just hang on, get help, um, reach out.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  And one of the things you talk about in the book is about pain into purpose, which is just so important. And another thing I think that was really critical is learning how to not believe every stupid thing you think.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Discipline. You're a monk, you know this. Discipline.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Disciplining your mind is so important. So whenever you're sad, or whenever you're mad, or whenever you're nervous or out of control, write down what you're thinking. And then just ask yourself, is it true?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  You don't have to believe every stupid thing you think. How many of your, um, listeners were good at talking back to their parents when they were teenagers? I was. Excellent. And my mom will totally verify that I was a pig when I was a teenager. But no one ever taught me to talk back to myself. That thoughts are not real, right? It's sort of like the weather. It comes, it goes. It's not the thoughts you have that cause suffering. It's the thoughts you attach to. It's the ones you let stick around. And so, yes, get your brain right, but then you have to program properly.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  And where you bring your attention always determines how you feel. And so, learning how to focus your mind on what's helpful rather than what's hurtful. And during the pandemic, Tan actually did really well. I mean, she's an ICU nurse. But when the societal disruption came, she sort of lost her mind a little bit.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Because it's like my childhood, it was uncertain.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  The most important thing she did was turn off the news. Because when she watched the news, she'd start screaming at the TV. And it wasn't helpful for her. And you know, Jay, the news is actually not the news anymore. The news is about driving clicks. And what does the brain pay attention to first? Fear.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Negativity.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Negativity. And that's what they're doing. They're driving that, which is increasing the incidence of mental illness. And in the end of mental illness, I have a writing device where I just imagined if I was an evil ruler and I wanted to create mental illness around the world, what would I do? I'd create our news system. I'd create our food system.

• 20:53Jay Shetty?

  I want to hear from you, how you had the courage to, you know, you just shared earlier, you know, like the tip of the iceberg of some of the Trauma and the challenges that you've been through in life and I look forward to really going deep with you, but how did you have the courage to face that scared child or to reconnect with that scared child? Because I feel like for so many people, it's so much easier to try and forget or push it away and it's so much easier to try and hope that no one ever knows it happened and we kind of ignore it or suppress it. How do you, how do you really confront that?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  It was actually an epiphany. It wasn't necessarily my choice, I suppose you would say. Again, I'm nudged to do a lot of things by my partner sitting next to me, but I was the queen of building the facade, the wall, you know, making people think I had it all together. And inside, I wasn't. I was feeling pretty broken. But I finally started the journey of healing, but I didn't realize how judgmental I was. I didn't realize how much I still was disconnected from my past, even though I felt like I was personally starting to heal some of the brokenness, that was still a big issue. I was disconnected, didn't want to get involved with people from my past, and I was very judgmental and didn't

• 22:09Speaker 02

  even realize it. And I started to do a program at the Salvation Army with some of the, some people with addiction, one of the largest inpatient addiction treatment centers that they have. It was 186 beds. I was asked to help transform their food. And so I thought, yeah, I can deal with the menu. And then she said, no, I want you to work with the people. And I'm like, no, I can't work with the people. And I started wrestling with this and Daniel's like, why can't you do this, honey? And I'm like, God just called the wrong person this time. I'm sorry, I can't do this. And he looked at me and he said, God called the perfect person. And I was stunned and I started to cry and I realized in that moment how judgmental I was. And I'm standing on stage and I don't

• 22:51Speaker 02

  like these people. I just don't like them. But I've done a lot of work with Byron Katie and at that point, and really some work on myself. About Judge Your Neighbor, and it's really powerful. And all of a sudden, it struck me that I was judging them, that I was literally looking down from the stage at these people, and they were seeing exactly what I wanted them to see. This perfect facade. They weren't seeing me, they weren't seeing the truth. And it just was a moment that that mask was stripped away. And I felt this epiphany, that if I could help one person in that room, that would be one less scared child in the world. If I could, if one less little girl that felt like an afterthought, one less little boy that felt like he had to hide because it felt safer. And it just struck me that at one point in our lives, we were all the same.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  At one point, we were just all scared children. And I don't know why some turned right and some turned left, that's above my pay grade. All I know is that if I could help one person think differently, think differently at that proverbial fork in the road, it might change the next generation.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  And the stories of transformation were spectacular. Of the people that she helped.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  It's the most powerful work I ever did.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  So another lesson is being authentic, telling your story, not having to be perfect connects you way more than having a perfect facade.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  And pain shared is pain divided. And right now during this time, when people are feeling isolated, this is so perfect. I mean, people are using social media in a positive way. I mean, we all know it's got negative, you know, effects, but it can be used as this tool, because pain shared is pain divided. And, you know, building that wall, keeping that facade up, that's, that's just like a boil building up. I hate, I'm a nurse, unfortunately, I use these gross, you know, examples, but it's like this boil building up pressure. And once you lance it and let all that ugliness out, it has the opportunity to heal. And when you share your pain with someone else, suddenly you don't feel the shame. It's like it's this burden is shared, and we can handle it.

• 24:56Jay Shetty?

  What is the one thing, from both of you, this is our last question. What is the one thing that you think people need to do today in 2020? Because the level, like you said, Dr. Raymond, you know, we went from eight to 27% feeling depression. We were all thrown this curve ball. It was completely unpredictable. It was completely, you know, unexplainable, like no one saw this coming. Do we have the ability to evolve fast enough to deal with the stress and pressure that's coming our way? And what's the one thing that we can do to be ready and prepared for that? And I'd love to hear an answer from both of you and wherever you'd like to go with that.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Well, it's why we survived as a species, because we can pivot. And those people that will thrive during this time will not wish for the good old days. What they'll do is they'll see what are the opportunities going forward. And during this time, they will love and take care of their brains. Because that's what's going to get you to not only survive, but thrive. So it's back to that one question. What I'm going to do today, is it good for my brain or bad for it? So doing things that help you feel better fast, like alcohol, marijuana, bad food, being sedentary,

• 26:21Speaker 01

  being addicted to the news, all of those things are going to hurt your brain. But taking a multiple vitamin, omega-3 fatty acids, optimizing your vitamin D level, getting out in the sun if you can, exercising, learning how to not believe every stupid thing you think. Those things are great for your brain. So back to, is this good for my brain or bad for it? Will help you not only survive, but it will help you thrive during this historic time.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  I like that. So one thing that really, because this has been a stressful time. We've got teenagers in the house, like everybody else. It's just, it's stressful. So what helps me is looking at things from a 30,000-foot perspective. So if I step back, I step out of the picture, take myself out of it and look at it from a distance, or like you're watching a movie. And then for me, it's like, what part of this is important? What part of it is not? Who has our best interest? Who does not? And then I ask myself, what? Can I control? Focus on the things I can control, not the things I can't. Because so much of it, we can't. We can't control what people are saying on the news and the negativity. We just can't control that. But we can control our thinking. And I noticed that when I go in the backyard in the morning,

• 27:39Speaker 02

  walk through my grass with bare feet and watch the hummingbirds with green tea in my hand, nothing is wrong in the world. It's not until I come back in the house and start watching the news and listening to what's happening in the world that it all sounds like doom and gloom. So I focus on what I can control. And I always go back to those four circles. And I really practice it. Nutrition, diet, meditation, prayer. You know, for me, I have to do all it. Connection, I have to do all of it. I'm not a person who can do one thing.

• 28:09Jay Shetty?

  It's amazing. Thank you so much, both of you, for doing this. If you want more information, please, please, please go and grab the books. End of Mental Illness. You can see one of the other books. And Dr. Daniel Amen's written, like, I think, what? Are you on your 12th book now?

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Oh, dear Lord, no.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Forty second.

• 28:25Jay Shetty?

  Forty second?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  You have a ways to catch up, but I'm also much older than you.

• 28:30Jay Shetty?

  I'm not. Never catch up. But Change Your Brain, Change Your Life. The End of Mental Illness was the last interview that we did on my podcast. And Tana's new book is available for preorder. It's not out yet. It's The Relentless Courage of a Scared Child. So those are the names of the two books. I highly recommend them. Please, please, please go and preorder Tana's book and you can go and buy Dr.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  And she has an event coming up December 12th, free. So people can sign up for it at relentlesscourage.com.

• 29:04Jay Shetty?

  Tell me the website. Say that again, Dr.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Relentlesscourage.com.

• 29:09Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. I'm just putting that in the relentless courage, putting in the comments.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you so much.

• 29:14Jay Shetty?

  Courage.com. Okay, everyone, I'm just going to pin this to the top of the comments. Sorry, it's the bottom of the comments. You can see it right. Oh, I can't put my hand down. Tana can put her hands down. There you can see. Relentlesscourage.com, it's right there. So go and click on that and sign up. What date was that again, Dr. Amen? Can you remind us?

• 29:33Speaker 01

  December 12th.

• 29:35Jay Shetty?

  Great, December 12th, relentlesscourage.com. So you can go and sign up for a free event, which is dedicated to the book. So please, please, please, everyone who's watching this, whether you're watching it live with us right now, or whether you're going to watch the replay, check out relentlesscourage.com. But thank you to both of you for doing this and joining our Mental Health Festival. And I can't wait to see you all after this, get my brain scanned, finally. I know we've been talking about COVID.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  It's life changing. And you will fall in love with your brain more than ever before. And then you will treat it like it's your best friend, because it is your best friend or your worst enemy, depending on how it works. So we love you. We're grateful to be part of your community.

• 30:24Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much, both of you. Please go and follow both our incredible guests today, everyone. Grab a copy of those books and make sure you go to relentlesscourage.com to not miss out on that event. Thank you for joining. Thank you so much, Dr. Amen. Thanks, Jay. Yeah, I'll see you soon. And thank you all back at home. Share this. Well, thank you so much.

• 30:47Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation with Dr. Daniel Amen, Tana Amen, today. I really hope it gave you some ideas of how to view mental health from a physiological perspective, and how one can employ strategies to heal from past traumas. Make sure you tag me, Dr. Amen, and Tana on Instagram with your thoughts on their approach to healing. I thank you so much for being a part of the On Purpose Community. Thank you for listening. Have a wonderful weekend. Stay safe. And don't forget to look out for episodes next Monday and Friday.

• 31:31Jay Shetty?

  This podcast was produced by Dust Light Productions. Our executive producer from Dust Light is Misha Youssef. Our senior producer is Juliana Bradley. Our associate producer is Jacqueline Castillo. Valentino Rivera is our engineer. Our music is from Blue Dot Sessions. And special thanks to Rachel Garcia, the Dust Light development and operations coordinator.