Greg McKeown ON: Essentialism & Doing Less To Get The Most Out Of Your Life

Is it possible to get more out of life with less? Jay Shetty sits down with New York Times Bestselling author and business owner, Greg McKeown, to navigate essentialism’s insights. According to McKeown, essentialism is not about doing more things. It's about doing more of the right things. If you are overwhelmed with a full plate and caught up in the rat race of life, tune in to this entire episode of ON Purpose to hear Jay Shetty and Greg McKeown discuss the critical aspects of essentialism and how you can apply them to your life. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:43Jay Shetty?

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• 1:26Jay Shetty?

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• 2:01Jay Shetty?

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• 2:45Jay Shetty?

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• 3:15Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you for coming back every week to listen, learn, and to grow. And I know that you want to grow your minds in ways that you haven't even understood yet, right? It's all about expanding, extending, asking questions that we've never thought of, being introduced and exposed to people that we've never, ever heard of. But today's a guest that I think you may have seen his book, you may even have read it. And if you haven't, you are going to want to read it straight after this interview. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less, and the founder of Macuan Inc., a company with a mission to teach essentialism to millions of people around the world.

• 4:00Jay Shetty?

  Their clients include Adobe, Apple, Airbnb, Cisco, Google, Facebook, Pixar, Salesforce, Twitter, and Yahoo. Now, Macuan is an accomplished public speaker and has spoken to hundreds of audiences around the world, including Australia, Bulgaria, Canada, China. And highlights include speaking at South by Southwest, interviewing Al Gore at the annual conference of the World Economic Forum. Greg's writing has appeared and been covered by Fast Company, Fortune, HuffPost, and Ink Magazine, and Harvard Business Review. And he's also been interviewed on numerous TV and radio shows, including NPR and NBC. In 2012, he was named a Young Global Leader by the World Economic Forum.

• 4:44Jay Shetty?

  And today, I'm excited to talk to him because I was just saying to them before we started the interview, I loved his book the moment I was exposed to it and experienced it. And I've had so many leaders, whether it's been leaders of small community centers through to corporate executives, that have loved his work and spoken highly of it. I'm so excited to share with you today Greg's insight and wisdom. Greg, thank you for being here.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  It's so great to be with you. Thanks, Jay.

• 5:09Jay Shetty?

  And we've been bonding behind the scenes, just so everyone knows, before we started this interview, we were bonding over our Britishness. And we were both happy to learn that we actually grew up or were born not so far away from each other. And so you may see some British references being thrown in now and again, or some other. But Greg, I want to start off by talking a bit about you and learning a bit about you, learning more about you, because I think that the person behind the perspective is always more fascinating. And the perspective that you have is fascinating anyway, and I'm obviously drawn to it because of essentialism and less and living as a monk for three years.

• 5:52Jay Shetty?

  And I love playing around with the thought of essentialism and the pursuit of less. But I wanted to start by asking you, what do you believe that you have continuously pursued less of in your life since the beginning?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, less, what have I pursued less of? I mean, I want to become... More and more of who I really am, less and less of who I really am not. And particularly around like my sense of mission in life. So, I mean, this journey, you can, I mean, every journey starts in different places when you're talking about your life, but one place it started for me was was twenty years ago, where I was staring at a piece of paper in my hands with all these scribbles, all these answers to a question. The question was, what would you do if you could do anything? And as I was looking at my answers, I suddenly realized not what I'd written down on the list, but what I hadn't written down on the list.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  I noticed law school isn't on my list, which was inconvenient because I was at the time at law school. You know, in the UK. And well, what do you do in this moment? And, you know, part of you wants to just carry on doing what you've done before, you know, put the idea back. But for me, there was no really putting it back in the original packaging. The thought of being able to just do what I really wanted, which was to teach and to write. It was so, was so liberating, felt so naming, that the idea of trying to, you know, force it. But then I thought, well, I still need to call my parents. So, you know, I called a fifteen digit number back to England and my mother answers.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Fortunately, she listens for a while and she says, I think you'd better talk to dad.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  So now he comes on the phone now, now, I mean, what do you say? After all this time, all this money, all this effort, you know, to get you on this journey. And now I'm calling, I was in the United States at the time, so I'm calling from halfway around the world with this harebrained idea, I'm going to quit law school. And he listened, which was not entirely like him. But then he said, he said this, he said, he actually, he pulled the line straight out of Hamlet. He said, son, what we've always told you, he says, to thine own self be true.

• 8:16Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, he never said that to me in his whole life.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  He just, he just claimed that he had in this moment. I'll tell you what he'd said my whole life. He'd said, go to law school. I mean, I wasn't there by accident. I mean, so, so he said the right thing at the right time and, and he added this. He said, look. He said, he said, choose what is right. Let the consequences follow. Which is a children's hymn, that phrase. And, and, and that was, I mean, what he might as well have said is, look, choose what is essential. Let the consequences follow. Because in that little story is sort of the, the seed of everything that's gone on since in my life. And, and, and really from that point on, it was about be careful not to let non-essential pursuits, even good pursuits, keep you from what it is you're really here to do.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  You know, so such a pathetically short period of time left for all of us and you don't have time for doing what other people are doing just because they're doing it, or, or just following opportunities just because they're good or before you. Instead trying to find that particular message, that particular path that, that, that I'm supposed to be on.

• 9:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Tell me what you think would have happened had your parents had a different response. And like you said, like most parents, your parents had almost paved out a particular path for you. And I've always joked about that in my own life too, where, you know, I could either grow up to be a doctor, a lawyer, or a failure, and those were my three options.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:48Jay Shetty?

  And that's, you know, that's because that's what I was exposed to.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, seriously.

• 9:52Jay Shetty?

  I didn't even know there was another career that existed, if I'm completely honest. And it sounds crazy, but I literally mean it. There were like finite boxes and options in my mind. So you had that too. Like a lot of people listening or watching this will also feel the same way. And they'll be like, Jay, Greg, I get it. That's, that's how I feel. But what if you'd called your parents and you think your parents had a different view? Let's say your parents were, not that they were encouraging, but that they were discouraging. Not that they quoted Hamlet or gave you like the perfect advice they'd never given you. But let's say they just said, well, you're going to fail or whatever it was. How do you think that would have affected you? And I know it's a completely hypothetical situation, but how do you think that would have affected you?

• 10:37Jay Shetty?

  And knowing what you know now, how would you guide people to pursue this pursuit? Despite having a positive or negative reaction from parents?

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's, I think that's really valid. I mean, I think what would have happened is probably what I was already doing, which was a bit of a straddled strategy. You know, all day I'm, I'm there, you know, going to my classes, trying to do well at those. But my real passion is this other kind of teaching and writing and, and leadership and development. And, and so I'm sort of spending all night doing that. And so what you get if you do that is you're not really making ideal progress in either path. And so you just keep on straddling it and going along. I think if they had come down hard on, look, just get back here, get back, study, and then let's talk about it. Maybe they would have been able to shift that back to a position of straddle.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  I don't think it was very sustainable for me to, to have, to be able to just maintain that, that duality for too long. It's too uncomfortable for me. But I think for, for other people listening to this, watching this, it's about trying to discern the difference between the path you're supposed to be on and the parallel path you're on right now. If people are completely misaligned, I think they can feel that. But sometimes they can be conned a little bit more by, well, it's good. What I'm doing is good. I've, I've cost a job and in these times I'm just grateful for that. And, and I'm not suggesting that people just as bluntly and boldly, maybe as I did to quit law school and go off, but.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  At least to become aware of the two paths, to recognize that the path you're on, even if it's a good one, a parallel path never meets the essential path. And so it's really to create enough space that you can feel that clarity of voice inside saying, this is the way. Not the one you're on, this is the way, walk in this path. And I think if you get enough internal clarity, it actually, I mean, first of all, it allows you to have a conversation. Without that internal clarity, I couldn't even call my parents, right? And then hopefully,

• 13:00Speaker 02

  that clarity can build to the point that you have a lot of courage. You know, essentialism, the book I ended up writing and the work that I sort of focus on now, isn't about just saying no. It's about saying yes to what matters most. And so it's getting enough clarity around what matters most to you that you have strength to be able to say no to other things, to be able to at first just have a conversation, maybe a negotiation, if necessary, perhaps a disagreement, right? Where you just go, okay, look, you want this, but I can tell this is the right path, so I'm going to do it. I mean, you must have had that in choosing this completely different life that you've had.

• 13:46Jay Shetty?

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• 15:59Jay Shetty?

  I mean, listening to you, it's really self-affirming because I feel like so much of what you're saying is what I feel I've had to do too. So I'm totally on board with everything you're saying because I think that everyone in their own way goes through that or comes to that point of feeling like... You know, this isn't the path for me and this isn't what matters most to me. Tell me what you think that made the difference because like you said, and I appreciate you saying this, not everyone has to drop out and jump straight into something. And at the same time, people may straddle for a bit longer, which seems like a good sensible thing to do until you feel ready.

• 16:42Jay Shetty?

  What are the, and I know there's no way of putting a number on this, but if you had to say there are three things that you've done since quitting that you think have led to you building such a successful company, doing what you love to do and what matters to you. What are three things that you've done differently? Because there are so many people that either fear taking the step or they've taken the step and now they're in that no man's land.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 17:10Jay Shetty?

  And that uncertainty is just scary. And I'm sure you felt that and I have too. But what are the three things that you've done right? That you think people can learn from? That if they're about to make the jump like you did or they're inconveniently in that space because they've lost their job due to circumstances or they're there anyway. What are, what are three things that you think you got right?

• 17:33Speaker 02

  I think the first thing that really made a difference was, was seeking out the people who had been really successful, highly successful in this. So I made a very deliberate point to try and knock on the doors, to call up people. I mean, this is all pre the internet, but I was definitely, you know, I mean, semi stalking people, right? Going, okay, where are they? How can I get their number? Let people know this is what I'm trying to do now. Uh, I, I just started, so that was like one. Um, two, which was so closely connected to it. I don't know how I would differentiate them in some ways, but I just said, okay, writers write. If I want to write and teach, I need to start writing right now.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  And I didn't have the way to publish at that point, but I started writing immediately. I mean, I literally never went back to study law. I never went back onto the campus. I went back to England, but I just was immediately reading and writing. And so I realized, well, anyone can.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Write a book, you can say, hey, I'm writing a book. And I would say that to people, hey, I'm writing this book and I would love to interview you. And so that was one of the ways I got access to many bestselling authors and people I was reading their books fascinated by them. And then getting to hear the story behind the story and learn how did they do it? How did they get their start? So I wasn't trying to do this on my own by any means, you know, this is definitely a stand on the shoulders of giants strategy. Uh, and, and so I think if I was to divide those two, it's one, it's really the interviewing of the experts. Uh, you know, learning, figuring out the best of what others already have figured out. Uh, and the second is to start immediately doing the thing you want to do.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Uh, you, I, one of the principles I love the most, I didn't have words for it back then, but is just the courage to be rubbish.

• 19:23Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  It, it, yeah, e- every single writer, the first thing they write is rubbish. Uh, and it doesn't matter, even if they're quite talented writer. At this point, they're going to start and what they first write will not be the end, you know, result. And so you just have to, you know, a principle I love is, is to write two rubbish pages a day. Uh, and, and still now I'm working on a new book right now, a deadline pressing upon me. Uh, and even today, it's just write, write your next two rubbish pages. That's what you can do. And it'll get less rubbish over time. And you, you, you know, if you're willing to do it iteratively, eventually it's, it's not bad. And then hopefully it becomes good. And if you're, if you're patient, it can become decent and then great.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  And you just got to keep going, improving, improving. So I don't know. I don't think that's three, but I'll give you, those are the couple of things that I feel like made a difference.

• 20:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, they're great. I, I actually think there's some really great insight in them, especially that one around. Start doing the thing you actually want to do. I think that's the one that the others are important and completely great too. And and I think I would probably repeat some of them even when I share mine, but that specific one really hits a nerve. Because I think we're always waiting for someone to give us the official permission to do the thing we actually want to do, whether it's a publisher or a agent or a boss or an executive or whatever it may be. I feel like we have this, I guess it comes from school of always having to ask permission.

• 21:02Jay Shetty?

  And we almost get it entwined in our head that we can't start doing it until someone says we can.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  I I think that's totally true. And and that's, I mean, for me with the law school, particularly the the quitting moment. Logically, I'd always known you don't have to do this.

• 21:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  But emotionally, it didn't feel possible until I'm five thousand miles away and somebody says in passing, oh, if you do decide to stay in America, you should do whatever. And their assumption it was possible, plus with the space and distance, plus I suppose the blue sky above helps too, right? That you're going, well, this this could be a good life.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Suddenly it went from being just a logical peripheral thing to like something you go, no, this is it. This is for real. You can do this different thing. And so I I I completely agree that a lot of people are just think it's not realistic. I can't, I'm not the sort of person who's a writer. I'm not the sort of person who's an entrepreneur. I'm not the sort of person, whatever the thing is that people, you know, want really inside to do. And and I'll tell you another thing about this is that I think people often because it that deeper, clearer yes for them is so familiar.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  It's like they don't know it's, you know, they don't know they have a unique thing going on. They've always just thought about that type of work. I had always, always thought about teaching writing since I was like five years old, literally. But it was just with you. It took years until I was like, oh, that.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Not everybody has that. Not everybody wants that all the time. They want something completely different. And now that I have children, it's been like a real priority is trying to help them to look and discover the things they already are naturally curious about, naturally pulled to, interested in, and saying, look, I'll say it often to them, do you know, when you fix that, one of my sons, well, my son, I have four children, but one son, he can fix almost anything. He's only 14 now. And I'll always point out to him, you know, your natural curiosity for that is so much greater than mine. Like, I don't care about it like you do. You're fascinated. You, this is a strength for you. This is something, just pay attention to it. And this grew into his

• 23:21Speaker 02

  language, I want to be an engineer. Or this grew into now he wants to be a biotech engineer focused in medical devices. Well, my point is sharing that is that he's 14, and he has that kind of level of clarity. And the reason isn't, is just because it's sort of been helpfully pointed out a little along the way, that what's in you is unique.

• 23:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  To trust that uniqueness, that other people don't actually have the same inclinations that you do.

• 23:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. And I'm so excited to see how children kind of, given that early on, kind of blossom and reach. I'm really excited to see where that goes. And yeah, the fact that you're getting to share that with your kids must be so rewarding. Let's dive into the, let's dive into the day, because you spoke about it there. Like, I feel like so many people want to do so much in their day. And they want to get so much achieved in a day. How do you go about guiding leaders and thinkers and even yourself into creating a productive day and setting yourself up for a great day? Because it's almost like what you said, like, you have to write two rubbish,

• 24:37Jay Shetty?

  have the courage to write two rubbish pages, start doing what you're doing. And I find like, whether someone's working at a company, or an entrepreneur, or wherever they are, I feel like mastering your day is such a big part of mastering life and all the rest of it. And it's, sometimes we win or lose on the day. So give us some insight as to how we can go about thinking, making our days the best we possibly can.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is to recognize this, you know, I know I'm not the first to say it, but People overestimate what they can do in a day and underestimate what they can do in a decade. Right. So when I wake up in the morning, I do tend to feel there's way too much I can do. I got too much. And so even after years of working as an essentialist, I still feel that when I wake up in the morning. There's just way too many things to do today. Of course, there is. I mean, it'd be really, really odd if there wasn't. You know, like, no, I don't have more than I can fit into one day, even though I've got, like, hopefully decades left to live. Of course, there's more than you can do today, vastly more.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  So you can do one or two things at that point. You can say, well, I'll just sort of jump into today reactively. Pick up the phone that's sitting right there. I did a thing with Steve Harvey a while ago. And he had me work with someone in his audience and we went to her house, asked, well, where do you put your phone? And we were looking, walking around her home and she said, oh, yeah, I could just keep it there. And she pointed under her pillow. Yeah. And I'm like, well, literally, you sleep with it under your pillow? And she said, yeah. So she wakes up every time someone texts or emails her all night. Wakes up, responds, puts it under a pillow again. And when I, when I've shared that story with a few people, normally there is an audible thing like in the room.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  If, like, wow, that's crazy. And then slowly I realized that that's a bit self-righteous of us all. Because for a lot of people, yeah, they don't have it under their pillow, but they just only have it, you know, 12 inches from their, from their ear. So it's not really that different. But so for me, you know, the question is, what do you do with that feeling? Do you just react to that feeling and get to the phone and get into the inbox and all of that distraction? Or do you do something else? And it's got to be a choice. You make every day becomes a habit. So you don't have to think about it. But, you know, definitely a routine. But one of the things for me is I definitely want to be reading wisdom literature.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  For me, scriptures before I'm checking any email, before I'm doing any of that stuff. So I want to try and get. At least a bit centered. I don't want to try and give a sense of perfection about this, but at least a bit so that I'm not just a function of all those other reactive voices and even the reactive voices inside of me. The second thing for me is that I do have long-term goals and I break those down, weekly projects. Okay, here are the projects I feel really excited about doing. So one of them is the book, as I've already mentioned, for me. The second is the podcast. And so there's not much more beyond that.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  There's not much more time professionally for me beyond that. So it's about getting the first work cycles done on those first. I try and do them in, I mean, it's nothing religious, but 90-minute cycles, try and take a break in between. You get maybe three good work cycles in a morning. And if I can really use those well, then I feel like I'm going to make some good progress on the projects that matter. Push other things to the afternoon. On one of the breaks, I'll go on a walk with my wife, Anna. Five o'clock at night, I have an absolute, for real, really do it, leave the office deadline.

• 28:27Jay Shetty?

  Ah.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is, that's like, that is really, that is like religious, so to speak. And the way I do it, it helps, is that I announce it like a town crier to the family. So I walk out and I'll say, it is 4:59. I'll do it loud so everybody can hear. 5:01 today. And it makes it fun and it's silly, but it means I'm accountable immediately to that time.

• 28:52Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Otherwise, it's 5:30, it's 6:00. And if it's 6:00, why not 7:00? If it's 7:00, why not 8:00? And on it goes. You know, people just work, especially in COVID times, there's no natural boundaries. So work can just consume everything.

• 29:10Speaker 03

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  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

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• 30:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. Those are all great examples. And I, by the way, don't find that silly at all. I love that. I think that's great. I think I might have to start doing that, too. I really, I love rules and rituals and almost like drama added to life. In that sort of drama, like sort of, you know, playing a role or a character that, you know, helps everyone kind of laugh and settle the mood and helps people understand. One of the ones that's been favorite for me in looking at my day is I always often ask myself at the start of the week, what's going to make me feel like I've had a fulfilling week at the start of the week? Like, what do I need to do or be

• 30:55Jay Shetty?

  in order to feel like I've had a good day? Because I've realized that there have been days in my life where I've done everything that was on my to-do list, and I felt really dissatisfied because I didn't do the one thing that was the one thing that was going to make me feel really fulfilled and accomplished and successful and whatever it is that you want to feel. And I find like, but when I've done that one thing, even if everything else kind of faded away and didn't quite happen. You still feel really, really great. And so for a long time now, I've always tried to approach my week by asking myself at the start of the week, what's going to make me feel that this week was a good week? And what's going to make me feel that this day was a good day? Because I think so much is in how we feel. And I never wanted to live in a world where I did everything on my to-do list, but felt dissatisfied.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  I love, I just love that. I mean, that's like, I mean, essentialism really is about precisely what you just said. It's not about doing more things. It's about doing more of the right things. And in that way, in fact, it is quite distinguished between all of the productivity thinking. And that's all on one side. And then sort of essentialism somewhat alone on its own over here, because it's saying, it's saying, look, you could look, I mean, the most important things might not be showing up on your to-do list at all right now. They're almost certainly not showing up in your inbox right now. And so if those are your directional documents or your sources for decision-making, then certainly you could get not just the end of the week or the month, but the end of your life, right? I mean, this is literally done. It's not like we're not making this stuff up, right?

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Like, people get to the end of their lives and they go, oh, right, I didn't do the stuff I was meant to do. Right? Like, that, that's for real. In fact, I could maybe argue it's perhaps more normal than not. People get there and then they go, oh, this was all just distraction. This was all, you know, I missed what mattered. And, and that's like, you know, that's a scenario. I think most people do not want to find themselves in that situation. So, but no one meant to be there. They just ended up there by default. Yeah. All right. So I have a question for you. You gave me a little, little different.

• 33:04Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  I just, I was thinking about this coming into this conversation, right? Like, right now, I thought the people listening to this would, would learn more by rather me just talking about essentialism, like actually trying to implement it, like trying to have a conversation really about it, for real. Tell me something, Jay, in your life that is really, really important, essential, highly important, that you are currently under-investing in.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  First thought.

• 33:35Jay Shetty?

  I was gonna ask you the same question.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Glad I beat you to it.

• 33:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's in my list. Oh, first thought, oh, that I'm under investing in that.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  One first thought.

• 33:46Jay Shetty?

  It's hard for me. I.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Already had it.

• 33:49Jay Shetty?

  No, I haven't had, like, I'm like, I don't know, like, I'm. I feel very aligned, so it's hard, but. I'd say the first person I'd say is my mom.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  All right.

• 34:00Jay Shetty?

  Same mom, like parents, you know, like.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:03Jay Shetty?

  Really, obviously deeply, really important, under investing in, for sure.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, so good. You got a good, that's a good answer, it's a clear answer. Let's just sprawl it for a second a little more.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Okay, why are they so important to you?

• 34:17Jay Shetty?

  I feel like my parents specifically have done a great, like, great attitude of giving me freedom and my sister freedom to become who we wanted to be at a certain point. And also remain so independent where they've never really asked anything of me. And that only makes me wanna love them more. So that's why it's so important, why they're so important to me is because they've, you know, given me a great foundation, but never really asked for anything back. And I feel that that's a very special relationship.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  You've just said two things. One is that they, they blessed your life by investing in you, you know, I suppose in a sense, a lot of parents do that, right? They've given up their life to help you, but also they're not said, well, therefore you owe us something.

• 35:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Of course, we do owe our parents lots, but they're, they're not requiring that of you. They're just saying, we really meant this for you. We didn't do this so you'd owe us. We didn't do this with strings attached. So they, they blessed you. It's like doubly blessed.

• 35:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, which makes me feel even worse.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Well, that's not the goal.

• 35:30Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no, I'm joking too. I'm just saying that, you know, it's it's a beautiful feeling to to feel that double blessing because you're like, wow, like I, you know, they they deserve a lot.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, you won the parenting, the parent lottery.

• 35:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, in in my, in my, in my, I would say that I've always believed that in every area of my life. So I I've never looked at anything I've received as a deficiency or as a superiority to anyone else.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was interesting what you just distinguished because what I think you just said is, no, I didn't get like, I'm not saying my parents were the perfect parents, I'm just grateful for all they did give.

• 36:13Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  That makes up for anything you could become critical over and see, oh, well, that wasn't quite what, oh, and that person had this advantage. You're not saying I had all the advantages.

• 36:22Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  But you are genuinely grateful. Um, okay, so when you say you're underinvesting, what are you currently investing and what do you wish you were investing? Like, what's the delta? Currently investing, what are you currently doing?

• 36:36Jay Shetty?

  I currently, obviously because I live far away from them. My parents are back in London, so it's phone calls and messages and updates and things like that. So it's it's very much based on FaceTime and and all the rest of it. And I have been, we decided we'd go on a one family holiday a year. So, you know, I'm always making sure that, like earlier this year, we were in India together and then last year we went to Greece together. And so I've always made an attempt to try and do that. So that's currently investing.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:05Jay Shetty?

  And and I, although I think that that's fine and and I'm happy about that, I think it's more, and and, you know, I speak about this a lot myself too. It's like, people, people don't want your time, they want your energy.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:20Jay Shetty?

  And and I feel like my mum would just love more uh, updates from me on a daily, weekly basis. On anything that's happening in my life, like she would just love to know and be in the know. And and get that more, I guess, that more spontaneous connection.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:40Jay Shetty?

  Uh, of a feeling.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  How how much do you actually, in terms of like minutes in the last week ish, or on average, do you, are you actually talking to your mother?

• 37:50Jay Shetty?

  It's an hour a week.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  And what would success look like? Not perfect, but like you would feel that you no longer said it was being under invested in.

• 37:59Jay Shetty?

  I think the hour a week would remain the same, but I think it would become, uh, you know, a couple of times, a message a day or a couple of times a day where it didn't have to be time. It was just the thought and and it wasn't just the thought of, it's not just like an arbitrary message of, oh, I miss you, I love you. I think sharing something meaningful.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 38:17Jay Shetty?

  In my day that I think would, whether it's something I ate or whether it's, you know, something I did or someone I spoke to or, you know, whatever it is, something that makes her think that I'm thinking of.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, you just said it. It's thinking of her enough to share, to share a detail that brings your life to life for her.

• 38:38Jay Shetty?

  Hmm, absolutely. That's it.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  So, I mean, that automatically to me sounds really doable, potentially.

• 38:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Any new thing is still a new.

• 38:48Jay Shetty?

  Very doable.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  But but it feels like if if you were to say, okay, I'm going to, well, I'll put it to you actually, right? You you you you've written a lot about how to design thoughtfully and create mindsets and lifestyle that that really is, uh, that's that that helps you live a higher contribution. But just walk me through, using your process, how you can do this now. Like, what what do you do to make this an actual part of your?

• 39:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so the.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Your week going forward.

• 39:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, my favorite habit formation structure, which has been spoken about in psychology, which is called anchoring. I I really believe that any new habit you want to create needs to be anchored around a stable habit. So I think I always eat at the same time every day. It's it's something that's very regulated in my life and I I pretty much never miss meal times. And so I think doing it around mealtime, whether it's before or after breakfast or before or after lunch or before, and it would have to be before or after lunch, dinner wouldn't count because England's already asleep.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  England doesn't work.

• 39:52Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's part of, I think that's been. When I really think about it and I'm sharing it very honestly and openly, that's been my hardest thing that usually by the time I'm free, available and open and I have time in my diary, it's midnight in the UK.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  Perfectly understand that.

• 40:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you know, you know this, we live in, and the UK is eight hours ahead. And so that's usually been the case. So it would have to be before or after lunch or before or after breakfast. I think those would be the best way for me to input it in the simplest way.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:26Jay Shetty?

  Those things are never going to move. That's why I've chosen them.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that. And, and, and because of the eight hours, even you thinking about your mother first thing in the day.

• 40:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Is actually already halfway through her day.

• 40:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  So you think you're doing well. Hey, it's lunchtime. I'm thinking about my mother. I'm sending a message. I'm calling her. It's like she's waited all day for this.

• 40:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. And I, and I message her when I go to sleep. So I go to sleep around, say nine thirty, ten, and my mom wakes up at around six AM.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  But she gets her first thought first thing in the morning.

• 40:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And so I do message her at that time, but I can't get into a full conversation at that time, or I can't get into a real exchange at that time because I'm trying to sleep early. So.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it sounds like it's a, it sounds like it's a breakfast habit.

• 41:08Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  And it's, uh, is it before or after? I can think about that. Is it like before you get anything to eat, you do it? Is it, is it afterwards? Like afterwards, you're probably raring to go on the next thing.

• 41:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  So maybe it's a, maybe it's a like, it's a, I don't know.

• 41:24Jay Shetty?

  Almost like while you're preparing. It's almost like while you're preparing.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could, you could, you could do like a, uh, what's that, what's that, uh, the app, uh, where you, you know, where you just record the, record the message and it sends it. Oh, come on. Um, Marco Polo. Is Marco Polo?

• 41:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know it though. No.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Marco Polo is perfect for what you're describing because, because she would get to see you. So, so Marco Polo has made its whole rise because it's asynchronous communication. So you get to leave your video message. They can pick it up whenever they want and they can send one and, and you can watch it at the same time. Sometimes that will sync up, but it, it like, it will free you from, okay, what time is it there? What time am I doing it? But she'll get the energy you're talking about more than a little text. And you can still do it while you're doing something else, especially if you have your phone on a stand or whatever. Hey, this is what I'm thinking about this morning. This was my day. Mom thinking of you. You could do this thing in like one minute, two minutes.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  I love this. I just love this little idea for you, right? I know it's a small tweak, but those are the kinds of things. I'll tell you something I read just recently that, that when you leave home, right, to go to, once you're done with high school, you go into university, you've had ninety-four percent of the FaceTime you're gonna have with your parents.

• 42:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  That's crazy, right? It's crazy for me. My eldest now is, uh, is seventeen. And so I'm staring at that in the face that, that, that not very long from now, she's gonna be out.

• 42:53Jay Shetty?

  Did you say your eldest is seventeen?

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:57Jay Shetty?

  I can't, I can't believe you're kidding. Sorry, you've blown my, now I'm just, I can't listen to anything else you have to say. You look amazing.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So my, my youngest is eleven, oldest is seventeen. And I mean, it surprises me too. It amazes me too, but, uh, but it's been this, uh, it's been this great adventure. We just enjoyed, we, we got some great advice years ago that said, uh, kids were, they said, you're in the golden years, which meant like your children are, well, they're out of, they're out of nappies and they're, and they're not driving yet. That's what they said. And we were like, yeah. And they said, you've got to emphasize, you're gonna really make memories right now. And we just seriously took that for real. We're like, yeah, okay, we don't have to be warned twice. We will do it. And so now what we have is that they're all, almost all teenagers. And the, the, the culture's just, no, I didn't know it was gonna be like this.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  I didn't know it was gonna be as fun as this. I didn't know it was gonna be just that we all became really great friends. I didn't know it was gonna be like that. I thought it was gonna be rougher than that, worse than that.

• 43:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you've reminded me of a, a website. I, I talked about it recently in a video. It's a website called See Your Folks. I don't know if you've seen that.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  I haven't.

• 44:04Jay Shetty?

  And so I brought it up here just so I can explain it to people. So it's called SeeYourFolks.com. And what you do is you say, where do your parents live? So you enter the place they live, so mine's United Kingdom. It says on, on average, how many times do you see your parents a year? So before the pandemic, I probably used to see my parents, I'd say, six times a year. Uh, in terms of, and, and sorry, I should actually give the number of days. So I see them six times a year for probably a week. So that's forty two times per year.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:34Jay Shetty?

  To be specific. Um, how old are my parents? Let's, let's save them there. Uh, well, if you have.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Right, right. No, I'm getting the idea now. I'm getting the idea.

• 44:43Jay Shetty?

  Say that again?

• 44:45Speaker 02

  No, I'm just, sorry. I was just getting the idea of what you're saying. So you're estimating how long, how many times you are likely to see them in the rest of your life.

• 44:52Jay Shetty?

  So you type them, you type in where your parents live, on average, how many times you see them per year? How old is your mom? How old is your dad? And you go, show my results. And it tells you how many more times you'll see your parents. And actually, I would recommend that you just, you don't write in per day, you write in per time. So on average, how many times do I see my parents? Six times per year. And if I put it in, just to be fully honest and to really get awakening, I'll see my parents sixty six more times. Uh, that's the calculation that it does.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, it is crazy, isn't it?

• 45:24Jay Shetty?

  And, and when you think of sixty six, whether you think that number's high or low, I think for most of us, you go, wow, I only saw them sixty six more times. Like, you know, hopefully, I, to me, that doesn't sound like a long time at all. It, you know, it, it definitely makes you aware of how many times seeing as we see our partners every day, or, you know, whatever it may be. So.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  And, and it's so finite. When you, when you start to, you know, one of the things about our parents, one of the reasons I think we take them for granted is because every waking moment of our lives, they've been there.

• 45:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  You know, and of course, there'll be some people, you know, that, that tuning into this saying, yeah, actually, my parents died when I was young, or I didn't know one of them, or I was raised single and I never even knew. I mean, like, and they'll feel the absence so much clearer.

• 46:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  I suppose either of us do because our parents are still alive. We, we, we can at any time, or we can call them, we can pick up the phone, we can, we could have this relationship. So you just think, oh, it'll always be there. But of course, it, it just isn't like that, is it? Uh, uh, you know, COVID is one illustration for all of us, a little bit of a global wake up call to, to, to think about this. But, uh, but it, yeah, for me, one of the things that made me change is, is I just started calling my family. Uh, every week we do a video call once a week on a Sunday morning. And we've done it every day now. It's only been about a year. Maybe it's a year and a half now. Uh, and we do it every week now, and it's just so much better. Because a- again, it's so easy for time to pass and basically,

• 46:55Speaker 02

  you stop knowing about them. You think you know them because when you see them, you've got lots of memories together and you you've got lots of feeling with each other. But really, you do not know how their week went. You don't know how went their year went, you know, sometimes. And so you've got to deliver, build in these practices. Otherwise, all the other forces, all the good things. I mean, for goodness sake, what what is keeping you from calling your your mother each day? Well, it's all good things. Yeah. Lots of good things as you try to, you making this impact in the world. It's you, you know, teaching people, enlightening people. It's it's it's your your mission out there that's noble and worthy.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  So it's not like you're, it's not like, so to speak, you're being tricked by something bad or vile. But this is how I've noticed. This is sort of why I think essentialism has a niche or need at all. Is because it's the ninety percent and above important things that need to be in priority position. Uh, otherwise we'll just get caught in the middle. Uh, you know, or by total trivia, but but even just in the middle is lots of good things we're doing. And then and then we find ourselves years go by, oh, I didn't do. Yeah. Didn't do that stuff. Yeah. And that is, of course, what what regrets are made of. Okay, so I have an idea for you. Go on. Okay, so here's, well, I got one idea.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  One idea is that like you do, you have to do this for like the next, I don't know. You tell me the time, even for a week, whatever. Then you come on my podcast and we talk about it again. Okay. How do you feel about that? It's easy.

• 48:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I could totally do it. It's, um, yeah, no, I think that's beautiful. And I love seeing essentialism in action for sure. I think it's the, I genuinely think it's the only way to live because it's the only way. It's well, it's not the only way to live. It's the only way to live a life that you're fulfilled by. Uh, and, and so you either have to make the choice in the adapting now, or you have the challenges and the regrets later.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:06Jay Shetty?

  And unfortunately, when it gets to that side, that's where you feel helpless and that you can't do anything about it.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's the universality of trade offs. It's that every time you say yes, you're saying no to something. So every time you say yes to a 30 or 40 or 60% important activity, you're saying no to something in the top 90%. And, and that's, I think, the big shift of, of mindset that's necessary. Cause otherwise people just look at something and say, well, is it good?

• 49:37Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  As if, as if life is a, is a closet universally large. So you can fit in any number of items of clothing and it will never fill up.

• 49:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  But as we all know from our actual closets, if you just keep on saying yes to good stuff soon, it's packed too full. There's no, there's no room for anything new. You can't find anything that you actually want. And so you have this very unsatisfying overloaded experience. And I think that, you know, that's the metaphor for life is, is that we, our lives are very full of stuff, but they're not satisfying because the most important things either aren't in there or we can't find them. We can't enjoy them. And so essentialism, I think, is a really achievable life bit by bit. Just like getting your closet organized is doable, but you have to learn some new habits and new adjustments.

• 50:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think the only time that I feel saying yes to a lot of stuff was useful when I wasn't sure and not all of it was meaningful. The only time I think I felt the other way is when I've tried starting something new. So when I've started something new, that was the only time where I've said yes to so much because.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  You don't know what's gonna work.

• 50:56Jay Shetty?

  You don't know what's gonna work.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:58Jay Shetty?

  So you don't know what's most important. And that's the only time. And then as that builds and grows, you have to get into essentialism straight away. Because otherwise, that's when you end up saying yes to too many things that don't matter. But in the beginning, you are going to, like you said, writing, having the courage to write two rubbish pages a day. You've got to have that courage in the beginning to be like, I don't know what's essential because this is new to me.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:23Jay Shetty?

  As you figure it out, you have to get into essentialism again. That's the only time I can think in my life where I've, and maybe there's a hidden trait of essentialism in that.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Yes, but I think so very much. So there are three practices of essentialism, right? The first is to explore, the second is to eliminate, and the third is to execute. Explore is what you're saying. So it's to create enough space. Essentialists, paradoxically, they try more things than a non-essentialist. They're more willing to explore, they're just not committing deeply to every single path. So as they try these things out, they're then quickly moving on to the elimination. Whereas a non-essentialist will often just commit to a bunch of stuff. Okay, law school, that's what I'm doing. And they get in sunk cost bias, they're going more and more down this path.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  They're not actually eliminating and pruning. And I suppose because they chose it so early, they just get committed to something that they don't. Maybe it's a higher risk in their mind to be able to shift. If you've got a bunch of things, you're trying a bunch of things at first, you're willing to cut and kill. But you have to, I mean, to decide comes from, of course, the Latin, which means to cut or kill. So you don't decide unless you're getting rid of something. And I think that, you know, in an entrepreneurial time or when someone's starting something, yes, try a bunch of different things. But also get the second half of innovation. Do the elimination. Otherwise, you have these sort of zombie projects.

• 52:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  Where you're still doing many, many, too many projects, many different directions. Uh, and always hoping that each one of them will live. You've got to just learn as fast as possible which things are not the right path for you. Get rid of them so that you can invest in the few that you think really are the right ones for you.

• 53:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. You, you start all these things and then you have all these open things that are not finished. No completion, no, uh, no.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Satisfaction.

• 53:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no satisfaction and no reflection on whether that was useful or not. I think that's, that's the part that I find so great about essentialism is you're only able, you, you have to have that reflection point on, is this useful? What was useful about it? Uh, is it going through or is it being eliminated? Because if you don't do that, which we sometimes just leave doors wide open in our lives. And we never reflect on whether we wanted to close them or why they didn't close or why they stayed open. And not knowing all of that just leads to far more confusion. Or the other extreme, which is what you said, is you pick one thing because you think that's simple. And that's, this is what I, I love about essentialism. And what I was thinking about with my team before we did this podcast.

• 54:13Jay Shetty?

  And, and I was thinking aloud with them about this, that simplicity is not an external thing.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 54:20Jay Shetty?

  Right? Like, if you were 16 or whatever age you were and you knew exactly what you wanted to do, adults would have said, that person is thoughtful, they're organized, they have a plan. And they're, like, you would say simplicity in a good sense, like, they, they know what's essential in life. Like, that's what someone would have said. And if you were 16 and you said, you know, I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up. I kind of maybe want to write or I maybe want to, you know, parents or friends, parents would have said, don't hang out with that kid, like, they haven't got a plan.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:53Jay Shetty?

  No plan. And, and while there's some truth in both, there is some truth in both. The overarching understanding is just that. It's actually just because externally your life is figured out. It doesn't mean that you're living in essentialism or simplicity.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's so true, totally true, right? And sometimes I've said, there's like two kinds of people in the world. There are people who are lost and there are people who know they are lost.

• 55:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  And to be in the second category, where you admit it in the morning, you wake up way too much to. I'm not sure which things to do, there's too many things. If you admit it and face it, then you can start doing something about it. Like when I used to go driving with my dad and he was famous in our family. You know, oh yes, I just feel this is the right direction when we're lost, you know. I learned to distrust that that expression, oh, I know, I feel it's down here. You don't feel it, you don't know, we're just lost. If you admit you're lost, you know, back in the day, you just pull over, ask someone directions. Now you're not lost anymore. So admitting it is part of this process.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  And and this is why, you know, the phrase, the disciplined pursuit of less. The disciplined pursuit of what is essential is so meaningful to me. Because it is absolutely this willingness to day after day, wake up. What's essential now? What's important now? Oh, we wake up, oh, Covid, oh, that's a complete change. I mean, the pivots required a massive. So so what your plan was the day before is almost certainly not your plan now.

• 56:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  But if you have the practice, the pursuit of each day, well, what's essential now? Then you can keep adapting to whatever circumstances come along. And and and that internal process to me is is like the very essence of essentialism. So often people, when they read essentialism, they'll say, well, I can't say no to my boss's boss, just like that. Which I never write that they should do that, but that's where their head goes.

• 56:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Is this very external interaction.

• 57:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  And what I've spent all the years since writing essentialism, trying to reemphasize is like, no, start within.

• 57:08Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  It's about you getting clarity. Of course, there's give and take with everybody in your life. If you want relationships, it's going to be give and take, but you can't have. Those conversations, if you don't have internal clarity first, so that's the daily practice to get clear yourself so that you can even interact with others.

• 57:27Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, yeah, no, I'm so, I'm so happy hearing that from you, seeing as you are the creator of essentialism. But, you know, it's, it's true, like, it's, it's often, I, I get it in a different sense, your example of you get it in the, you know, how do I tell my boss is boss and that being it.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:43Jay Shetty?

  Sometimes people say to me, well, Jay, you know, you used to be a monk and now you're married and you have a home and you have businesses and, you know, like, like, how does, you know, how does, like, it's, it's kind of hard for people to figure out. And I'm like,

• 57:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:55Jay Shetty?

  Well, you know, simplicity is such an internal thing. Like, I wake up and I've had the same essential intention for the last 10 years, probably, I'd say, which is, I want to wake up and do what I love every day. And I want to do it in a way that serves people and makes a difference in their life. Now, whether I was a monk or, and who I am now, I've had that same intention every single day. And so to me, I feel really simple and clear about what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. And whether I did that wearing robes as a monk, or whether I do that living in LA, to me, I'm really clear on that. And

• 58:34Jay Shetty?

  that's, to me, what gives me simplicity. Someone could have a extravagant, someone could have an extravagant life and a simple mind. And someone could have a simple life but a confused mind.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I really like the distinction. I mean, I, I, I saw that you were on, you interviewed by Oprah recently. And, and I think that's a great, a great illustration of what you're describing there. I mean, I mean, I, I don't know that any of us know, know Oprah the real, but the, but the, what we seem to sense in her, what seems to be the thing that has drawn people to her is a sense of clarity and intention. I know what I'm about and what I'm not about. And after having spent the last, you know, two or three years closer to Hollywood, I'm even more impressed by what she was able to do

• 59:31Speaker 02

  with this. Because what you don't, I think, appreciate on the outside of the industry is how Is how cluttered it is with with sort of a rush mentality. Well, whoever's successful, we just should copy what they're doing. You know, if that's successful, we just produce another three shows like that and try and get them made. And so I just am impressed that she's been able to keep what appears to have been a pretty clear, simple intent and in all sorts of developments externally. I think it's been one of the reasons she's reached the the the audiences that she has. And I think it's absolutely why you've been able to reach the audiences you have.

• 1:00:11Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, and I appreciate that. This has been such a this has been such a refreshing conversation. And I love I love it when you took charge of the interview. Much better job of it than I was.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:00:24Jay Shetty?

  So I I I appreciated that a lot. I thought it was great. And and I'm really happy that everyone got to listen to and observe and watch essentialism in action. And and I think the little activity that we did today, and and as small as everyone thinks it may be, it is the small things that make the biggest differences. I'm not the first to say it, but we we know that like it is these. It is, you know, life is made up of all of these tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny moments. And, you know, how we feel in a day affects how that week goes and how we feel in a week affects how that month goes. And how that month goes affects a year. And so it's it's so important that we don't underestimate answering that question.

• 1:01:07Jay Shetty?

  So I want to let everyone know that, of course, I highly recommend you go out and get the book Essentialism. But when you do it, I want you to go through that activity yourself as well. Because that activity in and of itself can give you so much more insight. And then the book will actually help you understand how to implement it into your daily life. So, you know, if you've loved this conversation like I have and you want to do more experiments on yourself and and explore a little bit more, then I highly recommend you go out and grab a copy of the book and order the book. Don't go out if you can't go out. Order order a copy of the book, because it's it's going to lead you down a path to clarity. And I think that's what we're all looking for is just clarity in the noise, decluttering.

• 1:01:51Jay Shetty?

  And whether you think you want more or less in your life, this applies to both. Because even if you want more of something, you need to be an essentialist. And even if you want less of something, you need to be an essentialist. So you can't get away from great. Either way, but Greg, I want to ask you, we always end every interview with two short segments. One's called Fill in the Blanks and the other one's called The Final Five. So if you're happy with that, we can dive into that.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 1:02:16Jay Shetty?

  Okay, so Fill in the Blanks, I say a sentence, you you fill in the last word. A big part of long-term success is?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Um, love.

• 1:02:29Jay Shetty?

  I wish everyone knew how?

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  To hear and follow their internal voice of conscience.

• 1:02:39Jay Shetty?

  Understand that your time is best spent?

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Doing what you came here to do.

• 1:02:45Jay Shetty?

  Seeing the whole picture starts?

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Um, with creating time for concentrated thinking and working.

• 1:02:57Jay Shetty?

  Great, very thoughtful answers. I loved all of them. Okay, these are your final five. So answers have to be in one word or one sentence maximum. So similar to what you just did now. Okay, so, ah, where do I want to start? Okay, let's start with here. One question people should ask themselves daily.

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Uh, what's essential now?

• 1:03:20Jay Shetty?

  Great. Question number two, what do you know that you are absolutely certain about, but that some people may disagree with you about?

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Uh, I um, I know that we were built for purpose.

• 1:03:37Jay Shetty?

  Right. And you think there are people out there that disagree with that? They they kind of?

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, people think it's all accidental.

• 1:03:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Uh, I I think it's all been built with purpose.

• 1:03:48Jay Shetty?

  Okay, last two questions. You mentioned, um, you you spend time reading wisdom and scripture. I wanted to ask you, what's your favorite teaching from scriptures or wisdom?

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  Um, well, there's a, there's a, there's an Old Testament scripture that I love, which is,

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not until I know an understanding, in all thy ways acknowledge him, and he will direct thy paths." Uh, I think that's the great exchange. Uh, and, and, and nobody has to, you know, believe what I believe just because I am. Uh, but, but I think it's the great exchange that you give your life up. And you say, okay, you know, for me, I'm giving my life up. I, I believe in the universality of the, the brotherhood of man that we are, that we are all, you know, children of God. And, and so for me, it's about giving my life up in that service, in his service, and then, uh, then he will give a different kind of life to me.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Uh, and, uh, and the exchange is like the best exchange possible. There's no better investment. You get paid a hundredfold, uh, for making that exchange.

• 1:05:03Jay Shetty?

  Awesome. Question number four, uh, what's-

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  I ruined the rules on that one, didn't I?

• 1:05:07Jay Shetty?

  I know, but it's fine. It was a great answer and I'm glad you did. So don't worry at all. Uh, what's the, uh, what's your number one book recommendation that you love?

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Um.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Well, one, one, I don't, it's a, that's awful question.

• 1:05:27Jay Shetty?

  Three.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, one, one, one that I have often recommended is, uh, is a book by David McCullough, who is not especially well now, but he's an amazing writer. And he wrote, um, John Adams is a really amazing, uh, founding father. He's, him and his son were the only founding fathers that didn't have slaves. That's just one tiny insight into the most amazing people, both him and his son. Both served his presence, uh, just, I can't read that book without being inspired about my own relationship, my own son, uh, and just how much they knew. I, I am, I am appalled when I read about them, about how little I know.

• 1:06:15Jay Shetty?

  Thank you for that. Never, it never hurts. I need to check that out. Thank you so much. I'm so glad I asked that question. All right. Fifth and final question. If you could, if you could create a law that everyone in the world would have to follow, what would it be?

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Well, I can't answer that honestly without answering it from sort of a religious perspective. I mean, it's just to it would be to love God and to love each other. I mean, I quite feel surprisingly emotional saying that, but it's just like, look at the problems. Look, they're too big for us. They're just too big for us on our own to just go, oh, well, I'll just, I'll just, one person, any, any president, any leader, any prime minister, what they're really going to solve these problems is, it's way bigger than that. And so I think we need to look to source greater than us and, and then, and to really,

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  not, not out of duty or dogma, but to, but out of real love and to be filled with that love, maybe greater love than we are capable of ourselves, so that we can love the unlovable. We're all unlovable. Sometimes, I mean, I know I am, and so I need my family and my people around me to be full of a love greater than my behavior, you know, would necessarily draw out every moment. So I think, I think that's, I think that's what I would answer.

• 1:07:41Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I love that. Everyone, that is Greg McKeown. You can check out his book, Essentialism, The Discipline Pursuit of Less. I also recommend you can listen to his podcast as well, Essentialism with Greg McKeown, and find him across social media. Greg, this has been awesome. Thank you so much.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  It's my pleasure. Thank you, Jay.

• 1:07:58Jay Shetty?

  This is a lot of fun, and I'm so glad we got to do this. And I look forward to actually meeting you now because we don't even live that far. So.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  We traveled, we traveled 5,000 miles to meet each other. So we, we, we have to do it at some point.

• 1:08:11Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, exactly. I'd love that. But thank you so much for coming on the show. Everyone who's listened today, make sure you tag me and Greg on Instagram. Let us know what was the top highlight from today's podcast for you. What was the wisdom? What was the insight? What was the question that you're going to be taking forward into your life? Make sure you tag us both on Twitter, Instagram, and wherever else you're posting, so that we can respond and interact and see what resonated with you all. Thank you so much for listening, everyone. Big thanks to Greg again, and I'll see you all soon.

• 1:09:00Speaker 06

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:09:03Speaker 04

  On October 2nd.

• 1:09:04Jay Shetty?

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami.

• 1:09:07Speaker 06

  They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up! From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what...

• 1:09:21Speaker 04

  With great power, comes great deniability.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then!

• 1:09:25Speaker 04

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.