Byron Katie ON: How To Properly Ask The Universe For The Healing, Peace & Abundance You’ve Been Chasing

Sometimes a person’s most transformative life experience takes place in the pit of despair while face to face with a cockroach. At least that’s how it was for author Byron Katie. In this episode of On Purpose, Katie shares how to transform your perspective by learning to question your thoughts, not just believe them. Katie’s contagious passion for life touches everyone who comes in contact with her. You'll learn her inspiring story of finding hope and healing. Text Jay Shetty 310-997-4177 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 2:16Jay Shetty?

  And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1

• 2:59Jay Shetty?

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• 3:09Speaker 01

  It's nameless anyway. Nameless would take away from the beauty. It is that beautiful and to even claim it says what it isn't. It's disrespectful for me to even attempt. It's more beautiful than that.

• 3:32Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that choose to listen, learn, and grow with us every single week. And you know that it's my intention to help connect you with thinkers, teachers, and guides that can help us learn to love ourselves a little more, that can help us learn to understand ourselves a bit more, and navigate the challenges that come with the mind, our thoughts, our hearts, and emotions. Now, today's guest is extremely trusted, extremely an incredible thought leader in this space for countless years, and I feel so deeply grateful to have her on the podcast.

• 4:16Jay Shetty?

  Now, today's guest is none other than Byron Katie. And in 1986, at the bottom of a 10-year spiral into depression, rage, and self-loathing, Byron Katie woke up one morning to a state of constant joy that has never left. She realized that when she believed her thoughts, she suffered. But when she questioned them, she didn't suffer. And that is true for every human being. And you know how much I love questions and answers, so I can't wait to ask her. Now, since then, she has offered her profound and powerful process of inquiry called The Work to millions of people at free public events, in prisons, hospitals, churches, treatment

• 5:00Jay Shetty?

  centres, corporations, universities and schools. As she guides people through The Work, they find that their stressful beliefs about life, other people or themselves start to shift. Through this process, Katie gives people the tool to set themselves free. Now Byron Katie has written four major books. The bestselling Loving What Is, and I'm grateful to have two of them with me right now, so you can see them here. And of course, I Need Your Love, Is That True?, A Thousand Names For Joy and A Mine At Home With Itself and A Thousand Names For Joy. And we'll be putting the links to these books in the comments as well.

• 5:41Jay Shetty?

  So please welcome to the show with an open, grateful and deeply appreciative heart Byron Katie. Katie, thank you for doing this. I'm so happy to have you on the show.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Oh Jay, my goodness, it's my privilege for sure.

• 5:55Jay Shetty?

  It's such a joy to sit with someone. And just for all of you who don't know, Katie and I were just exchanging some, some energy and some words before we started recording officially. And there's these moments that when you're present with someone, you feel this energy and aura and this immense joy and beauty that comes from them. And Katie, the way you just started this conversation, I felt it from the moment I joined the Zoom call. I can't imagine what I would have felt like if you were in the room with me right now. So I just wanted to thank you for making me feel so much joy just through your presence.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm just, I'm so grateful that you're in the world, Jay. I, I, it's not surprising that, that you felt that.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  I'm grateful you're in the world.

• 6:40Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. Well, I want to start by talking about your journey, which I know you've spoken about many times, but I'd love my audience to really connect with your background because I think that when we hear or see people who are incredible authors, incredible thinkers, incredible teachers, it's hard to realize that at some point they too had struggles or that they have struggles at all. And I think often people see guests on our podcast and think, oh, well, they have perfect lives and things are incredible and they've never experienced this. And that's what I want to start with. When you said that you were depressed for over a decade. And I want to start by asking you, how would you describe that chapter of your life?

• 7:23Jay Shetty?

  Of what it felt like and how different it is to how you feel now?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, it was horrible. It is something that I would never want another human being to have to live through. And in my world, people are experiencing that. You know, there are emails that come in to me and they're... I love my emails that, you know, there is a way out of suffering, but I didn't know that. And to wake up in the morning, Jay, and realize that I was still breathing felt like something was intentionally torturing me.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  And I was so suicidal and agoraphobic, so just trapped most of the time in my bedroom. And it was not fun. Let's see, describe it to you. My self-esteem and self-loathing was so strong that I was sleeping on the floor one morning, as I usually did. And next to my bed, because I was so full of self-loathing that I didn't believe I deserved a bed. That's the bottom line. So all I deserved was a sleep on the floor.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  But this particular morning, as I lay sleeping on the floor, I was in like this dead sleep and a cockroach crawled over my foot. I opened my eyes and...

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Basically, all the suffering was gone. All the suffering was gone. And the valuable thing

• 9:16Speaker 01

  was that I saw, when I believed my thoughts, I suffered. But when I didn't believe my thoughts, I didn't suffer. And the way that I saw that is when I opened my eyes, the ego did not have opportunity to fill that space. And everything was present. And in that, I began to laugh. It was like I got the joke. I got it. And I saw, you know,

• 9:52Speaker 01

  what I was thinking and believing was the cause of my suffering. And then the work was born on the floor in that moment. You know, it was, it was how, how all suffering is created. And it's true for every human being. We believe our thoughts, we suffer, we question them, we don't suffer. So I, some great mind said, unquestioned life is not worth living. And that's certainly my experience too.

• 10:20Jay Shetty?

  That's, that's incredible that you were able to birth a whole new way of thinking in that moment. And I wonder, what were those thoughts that you were believing at that time? Where were they coming from? Was it family? Was it parenting? Was it relationships?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  It was, it was from me. It was, um, there's, um, something terrible is going to happen. There's something wrong with me. The, the world doesn't really care about me. No one cares about anyone. Um, um, he doesn't care about me. And I can't do it. All these, and I didn't even know what the it was. I couldn't do, but it was just this, this crazy and the effect of believing those thoughts is depression was depression and guilt and insanity.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  And from that moment on the floor, anytime my head would say thoughts would hit, is it true? It would, it would just, the thoughts would happen like something terrible is going to happen and it would evaporate. It couldn't continue after that moment on the floor. And so when people began to ask me, which was really strange, an agoraphobic being asked, anyone being in touch with an agoraphobic is pretty rare. But people began to just call me from all over the world.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  It was just, you know, just one by one by one and, and ask what, you know, could they come live with me, you know, the strangest questions. And I didn't know if it was the water I was drinking, the food I was eating. I had, because everything had so radically flipped, just like from one polarity to the other. And, but then when they'd ask what happened and they would, they would say, uh, life isn't worth living and it would blow my mind because I knew they knew better. I, I knew they knew better because I'm still, I, once you know your own true nature, you see it in everyone and everything.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  And so I began to show them the experience on the floor. I asked the questions like something terrible is going to happen. Like they would say something terrible is going to happen and I would say, is it true? And that puts them on the floor, not literally, but it puts them into that experience on the floor. And then how do you react? What happens when you believe the thought? And then they become aware of in that meditative state, how do I react when I believe the thought? Of seeing those images of the past, not now, and the future, not now.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  And it moves their focus and attention from presence, where the given life is, the blessed life is, right here, right now, without being so convoluted, or we're not confused when we are present. And whatever we need to do can be done there, and everything to do it with is also present. And then that third question, how do you react when you believe the thought, they become aware of the images, and what they believe onto the images? So we have the image of, let's say, this morning at breakfast,

• 13:57Speaker 01

  and we see that image of that past, and then we believe words onto that image, and then the imagined life is created. And really, that is all of life that most humans understand. It keeps us like in the not now, in the not now, that past, future, past, future, that is not, is not. And the movie is so, it's so all encompassing. We really, like, I see me at breakfast, but I really believe that's me, even though I can't take it out of my head. I can't touch it, I can't move it, I can't, I can't throw it.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  There's, that's not I. So that me of the past, me of the future, now there's three of me. And now all of these past, there are a million of me, there are a million of me in the future. It's like, who am I? And if we just, who would it be? That fourth question, who would I be without the thought? Something terrible's going to happen, for example, dealing with that one. And it just, it just drops the image of the past, where something terrible happened, the future where it's going to happen. It dissolves the nothing, all those I's, and the answer to who am I? It's present, just present.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  And then, you know, people are taking this on as a practice. And as they do take it on as a practice, they see these horrors of the guilt of the past and the horrors of the future. And they are awake to not I, not I, not I, not I, all the not now, so they are with the one they love, the beloved themselves, awake to the given. You know, the love of life, not life imagined, but the love of...

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, Jay, you know of all people what it's like to see, to see. It's, oh my goodness, I could add stuff to it, like it sparkles, it shines, and then it's none of those things, and it's all of those things, and it's, and it's humbling, it's, it's being gifted. And so I understand why people want to be in the now, but how? And of course, I was shown this one way, and there are so many beautiful ways. It doesn't have to be just this or just that, there's something for everyone.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  And, and, um, and what I love about inquiry is it works with everything. It's not, it doesn't oppose anything, it doesn't even say, "Answer me," you know, it just is like, like given freely. And so it, after all these years, you know, more than three decades, it still excites me just to answer your question and feel like I'm taking over your entire program.

• 17:10Jay Shetty?

  I love listening, it's beautiful. And what I'm hearing so wonderfully is when these questions, and you used the word inquiry, it's like when these questions are these genuine sincere requests and questions as opposed to these demands. And I feel often our questions in the world are demands to the universe as opposed to these inquiries. And so we often ask questions, we're always asking questions, even with our thoughts, but often we're asking demanding questions like, why is this happening to me? When is this going to end?

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:53Jay Shetty?

  Why is this not stopping? And those are not really questions, they're rhetorical demands.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:59Jay Shetty?

  And I find that when we ask questions like that, we know that, let alone the universe, even our friends would not respond to questions like that because they're not really looking for an answer. And so I love the way you're reminding us. Now, tell us, Katie, if someone right now, and you have shown us the work, you've told us about the questioning process, but if someone right now is, and especially right now, is going through anxiety, depression, suffering from mental health, they are looking at this scenario of the world and they're having those thoughts.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:30Jay Shetty?

  And one would say they're very valid to have those thoughts, especially right now, and there have been multiple times in history. What would be the first thing you would say that they need to do in order to realize that there is hope for them? Because I think for so many people, they get to this point where they believe their thoughts so much that they feel there is no hope left.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:52Jay Shetty?

  And there's no chance, just like you were saying, you've felt.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  I would say first, get in touch with your emotions because they're the most, they're the closest thing to you.

• 19:03Jay Shetty?

  And what stops us from our emotions? What stops us from them?

• 19:07Speaker 01

  The truth sets me free. And that's my experience.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Unless it's drugs, alcohol, you know, we do our best. And so I tried all of that and I did it well. And it took me literally to the floor. But I would say get in touch with your emotions. Like when we're angry, for example, we feel it and we tense. And so to first get in touch with your emotions. In other words, notice, notice. And then move up to your head and notice. Because those emotions let you know, remind you of what you're thinking and believing is the cause of your suffering.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  And so then you can identify the thoughts you're thinking. And then don't trust them to stay. Move them from your head to paper. And then sit with those four questions with like, he doesn't care about me. That belongs on paper. And then you question it using these four questions and turnarounds. And the turnarounds are just finding opposites. So it's all always free. Anything I have of value, if I have something of value, it's always free on ByronKatie.com or thework.com. And how to do this is there.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Because if someone had told me, you know, when you feel your emotions, just get in touch with them. And what are you thinking and believing? I would, I would say, give me a cigarette. In the days we used to smoke.

• 20:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I love that about getting it down into paper. I think it's so important to get out of our heads. And you know, when things are in your mind, you think that they're there, that they can get convoluted and polluted. And so I often say to people as well, which I love, is getting out of the paper is almost sometimes a voice noting and recording your own voice and hearing it. It puts you in such an observer mindset.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  It does.

• 21:20Jay Shetty?

  When you're like, when you can hear yourself, you can hear what you're really trying to say and what you're really trying to communicate. And it's almost like hearing in between the lines for yourself. Same with writing it down, when you can read out to yourself. I think those are such powerful tools. I love it when I've heard you say that to judge people is to keep them separate from me.

• 21:43Jay Shetty?

  And I like that so much, especially right now, because I feel that judgment is what creates so much divide. And sometimes even, even what I find is more subtle is judgment of judgment. So it's, we think that we are being right by judging, but actually we're simply judging someone for their judgment. If you know what I mean.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  It keeps us separate. It is the fence I put between you and me. And, and I feel that separation, so I'm just going to come at you, whether you like it or not, until you understand me. But it's my fence I have put up between us. The cause of all suffering is what we're thinking and believing. So what you and I are talking about right now is the cause of suffering. It's, it's what we're thinking and believing. That is attachment.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  You know, the Buddha talks about attachments. Religions talk about attachment and, and, um, gosh, something, there's something else, but we'll say attachment. And, and, um, um,

• 23:03Speaker 01

  what we're talking about is the most important thing to identify, what we're thinking and believing is to identify the cause of suffering. And to question it is to set ourselves free. And to question that really is a meditative process. For example, if I think there's, this is a terrible place, this world is a terrible place.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  My mind will show me all the images of the past that prove it and the future that says it's going to happen again. It proves it. What we're thinking and believing is proven within us. But it's, as we say nowadays, fake news. It's fake news. And because it's not real, it's imaging, it's dreaming, it's the dream world. So to ask, is it true, begins to wake us up to reality. And the valid answer, when we ask, is it true? To meditate, to get still in that and not to ask the question of ourselves if we don't really want what we're asking to meet the question.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  And what we're asking to meet the question is that don't know world that is so unavailable to us when we are living as believers in these terrifying, depressive states of mind.

• 24:33Jay Shetty?

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• 26:46Jay Shetty?

  What are some beliefs that we should have then? Because if we're believing so many of the wrong thoughts, what are some of the thoughts that we should believe? Is there a?

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Well, words become like matches for our true nature. And are a match to the heart. Like if I think there's something wrong with him or her or them, you know, a society, for example. But there's something wrong with him, then my mind immediately shows me all the proof. And but it's not proof, it's a state of mind. And then it shows me the future where he's going to do that to me too. You know, that's going to happen here too. And so I don't see that him I'm with. I see who I imagine him to be. So that's who I'm talking to.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  So I like to say, no two people have ever met. We're crazy. We are talking to a phantom and we're so convinced. And, and so, you know, this, this work wakes us up, wakes me up to reality. And I forgot, your question actually slipped.

• 28:00Jay Shetty?

  No, that was beautiful. My question was, because you're saying that we sometimes believe our negative thoughts, and that's what creates our suffering.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Oh, the replacement.

• 28:11Jay Shetty?

  Are there any thoughts that we should have? Are there any beliefs we should have?

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Well, let's say, I think there's something wrong with him. And is it true? Can I really know this? How do I react when I believe the thought? I see the past, future, energy, and all of that. Who would I be without it? And I'm just meditating, dropping my story, dropping that identification on him, taking all the post-its I believed onto him. And I just see him. And I see him. And without what I'm believing onto him. And then when I turn it around, there's something wrong with him. Turned around, there's something wrong with me. And I'm not exchanging one belief for another. I am going to try it on, as though it were a shoe.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I tried on, and I fell in love with a shoe store. I don't know if it fits. I've got to try it on. So, there's something wrong with him. Turned around, there's something wrong with me. I'm going to try it on. Now, in that situation with him, there's something wrong with me. Okay, my attitude. I was experiencing a little fear, a lot of separation. There's something wrong with me. I see him differently when I dropped my story on him. That was mine. There's something wrong with me. So, I am meditating in a moment in time. And I'm present.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  And if I see something unacceptable in my world, I look to me. I don't look to other people. They cannot give me the answers that I'm seeking. And often, they say things that enlighten me, that wake me up, that change my life. But I'm the one that heard them. And as I'm in a hurry, I was in a hurry. And I was...

• 30:12Speaker 01

  I was granted a gift and it came freely. And now that belongs to everyone. And no one has to be open to it either, but I just know my job like you know yours. We're, we know our jobs. We give the gift and, and, and we, it grows in us each time we do.

• 30:34Jay Shetty?

  And what about so many people I hear today who are reconnecting with some of the pains in their childhood that they may not have even been aware of. So when we look at childhood trauma, we look at abandonment issues, we look at the feeling of not feeling nurtured, like we look at the feeling of being rejected or neglected as a child and we carry this.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:58Jay Shetty?

  And it grows and it's there.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:01Jay Shetty?

  Sometimes we don't become aware of it until we're much older.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  So true.

• 31:06Jay Shetty?

  How, how does someone go about processing that? Because I feel that that also reflects in the type of partners we choose for ourselves. It reflects in our communication with our friends and our bosses and our colleagues. It creates so many issues.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  It affects everything. It, it affects our identification. The people I work with, so that they understand how to work with it themselves, is I, and I ask them to go into, like go into the trauma, get into the center of that trauma where it was the most painful and identify, meditating in that situation. And that's asking a lot. But to go back into that situation and identify what they were thinking and believing then. Because what they were thinking and believing then was the cause of the trauma.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  No matter what that person did to me, what I was thinking and believing was the cause of my trauma. So I identify those thoughts, I write them down. And I have a Judge Your Neighbor worksheet on my website. People can download or work it there. And, and, and it's a form with six questions that include, allow us...

• 32:27Speaker 01

  To recall what we were thinking and believing then.

• 32:31Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  So, um, so that supports it. And then there are their thoughts, what they were thinking and believing then, the cause of the trauma. And, um, and then they question those thoughts. And they question it from a meditative state, from that situation, from the center of that, that terrible situation. Doesn't mean the other person isn't guilty. But it's still, what still remains is what I was thinking and believing is the cause of my suffering. So I question those thoughts and, and the trauma breaks. And, um, and I am enlightened to the cause of my suffering. And that's what I was thinking and believing. And then there, I have a lot to do. I have a lot to do after that.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  It's another worksheet and another worksheet. And you know, my mother, um, for example, said, um, one day, let's, let's hypothetically say, she said, Byron Kathleen, and I'm just a little kid, I'm just goo goo ga ga, I'm just da da da da da. And, and it doesn't mean anything to me. And she says Byron Kathleen, and it means nothing to me. And then let's say three weeks go by, da da da da da, and she says Byron Kathleen. And then one of my siblings say Byron Kathleen, and, and it, and my mother says it, my father says it. And then one day my mother says it, and I believe. I believe. And prior to that, I was not.

• 34:01Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  The moment I believed, I am. And the same with, I'm a female. I'm this age, I have this color hair, I have this color skin, I have this. And now you have this, and you are that, and you are that. So I'm multiplying, like being in a mirror. And, and the whole world is reflecting what I believe back to me. So to go back to the beginning.

• 34:34Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  And, and, and, and, and question, you know, my name is Byron Kathleen, you know, and.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  That's so close to the ego. I don't invite people to go there. But if you're, let's say you're raising children, oh, I just, I just, this work is free. All it will cost you is your identity. And it leaves you with a kinder one.

• 35:02Jay Shetty?

  That is so powerful. What you were just saying there about constantly taking back to when, what was your belief at that time? What were your thoughts and your belief at that time? Because there are so many times when we believe and we have created a thought that we trust this person, yet we never knew if they were trustworthy. We never allowed them to earn our trust. We just gave it to them. And then we wonder why they broke it. And it's because at that time, we chose to give them our trust.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Well, when we consider what we were thinking and believing, you know, we look to ourselves. They didn't, they didn't con me into trusting them. I believed this, this, and this. And I trusted that.

• 35:50Jay Shetty?

  Now, you say in that regard, you also say that there's nothing that isn't a gift. It's a friendly universe, you say.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes. It is a friendly universe. I get goosebumps just, just hearing it from you. It is a friendly universe. And but what I'm thinking and believing about this, about this universe could use a little work if I don't love it.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  As it is. And, and we question what we're thinking and believing about life, and it leaves us in a friendly universe. It's, it's the most, it's, it's a radical thing to wake up to reality. No downside.

• 36:32Jay Shetty?

  It's hard to accept because of our desire to control and our desire from our ego for things to be the way we want them to be.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, our desire to be God. And, and that's, and, and our desire to be God is, is an honest thing. It's just flipped into the ego's possession. So it's, so we question what we're believing and we become very humbled. And then eventually, we see that, that we, oh, boy, this is, this is.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  This is wild, but still, it's like, I, I believed this universe into being. And if I don't love it, I need to question my universe. And that means question what I believed about you, about me, about them, about it, about God, about everything, and wake up to reality. And without any preconceived idea about what it is. And in my experience, it's nameless anyway. Nameless would take away from the beauty of it. It's that beautiful. And to even claim it is, says what it isn't. It's more than that.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  It's, it's, um, it's disrespectful for me to even attempt. It's more beautiful than that.

• 38:05Jay Shetty?

  And I love, I know that my community will be really interested in this, Katie, is how does this then affect our relationships and our communication with those that we love?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  We're closer, closer, closer, closer. No space, no, no distance, no, no separation. Just living out of our true nature and trusting that. It's a fear of the state of mind, which means that there's nothing we cannot accomplish. You know, we wanted to accomplish something. If we don't, we consider, and we consider what we were thinking and believing that stops us,

• 38:49Speaker 01

  then inquiry leaves us in this fearless state of mind. And it's, um, and it's really good to be clear what you're going after. You know what it is you really want. And so for me, that's, um, that's, that's a part of the journey. I want people, people to be free and, um, and, and why am, why am I, why am I doing what I do? Because I have seen they're already free. That leaves me jobless. They're already free. And then I discovered that, that, that what we're thinking and believing, what people are thinking and believing is the only prison they've got.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  So I see like on television, hungry children, people suffering. And I have been in some of those positions. And I have sat in the, in the center of those experiences and identified what I was thinking and believing. And other than that, I was okay. So I understand

• 40:00Speaker 01

  that the world is, again, it's a, it's a friendly universe, Jay, and I'm very open to, um, to it not being. So I continue to test it.

• 40:13Jay Shetty?

  And your test seems to be proving your hypothesis correct.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Um, I see a lot of good. I, I would say I see only good and anything less than that, I question.

• 40:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I love what you say about the three businesses. Uh, can you share about the three businesses?

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:31Jay Shetty?

  I really like that.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  If, if I look at it, at, um, and like my daughter, let's say one of my, the, the way she's raising her children, for example, or one of my sons. There are three kinds of business in all of the universes, mine, yours and God's. And that's the God of your understanding. And if I'm mentally in my daughter's business, I'm sitting here with you, but mentally I'm in her house.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Knowing how she should raise her children, knowing what she should do, all of this. I'm talking to you, but I'm over there in my daughter's business. So if I'm feeling disconnected from you, I can just ask myself mentally, whose business am I in? And notice, and emotions will let me know for sure. And then just come right back, right here, right now. And this is where I can make change. I can't make change over there. I'm, you know, I can't be in all these places at once. But we are, we're all over the world. His business, her business, their business, God's business, the weather's business.

• 41:40Jay Shetty?

  That's such a great point. That's so true. We rarely are in our own business.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Oh, so.

• 41:46Jay Shetty?

  And the news takes us to everyone else's business. Our social media takes us to other people's business. We're always talking about other people's business. And how do you get your business done if you're always in someone else's business?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  And when you're present, when we're present, we can observe life from, out of a, it sounds strange, but out of a proactive state of mind and understanding, I think is the better word. And, and stay present and watch these things on televisions and, and, and walk in Black Lives Matter events. And, and we can do the most marvelous things and still be present. It's, but fear, fear stops us from, I don't have the right clothes and, and I, I wonder if, if I need to take a lunch.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  And I, oh, well, this is just, you know, I don't think I'll bother today. You know, you know, what would stop us from doing the right thing? Our heart's desire. And literally, our heart's desire and to live out of that. Fear.

• 42:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What, Keddie, what is the secret to your long incredible relationship with Steve?

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:05Jay Shetty?

  How did you both find each other? How did you both know that you were right for each other? And how did you continue to create?

• 43:13Speaker 01

  He's better at telling this story. But, but on, on my, on, on, a friend of mine said that I just needed to meet him. And, and that he's the one person in the world that could write on my book, Loving What Is. And, and, oh gosh, how do I tell this story? He's so good at it.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  You know, the bottom line, oh, this sounds, this sounds so. He asked me to marry him and I didn't know why not. And that's the truth of it. And I asked my three grandchildren, do you, do you have a reason why I shouldn't marry Stephen? And they didn't have one and I didn't have one. And what I knew of Stephen is he is good and kind and wise. And there just was no reason in the world not. But when you have a perfect life, when you're never lonely, let's say I'm always alone and never lonely. As far as people go, I don't need anyone.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  And, and I married him and he, I mean, just, he is just so completely lovable. And dear and kind and, and just, I don't know how the, how this story sounds, but who wouldn't love that?

• 44:43Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  You know, it's goodness and kindness and fairness and.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Brilliance and oh, you know, all the things. In my life before the work, the opposite would attract me. Looks and the real man and the, you know, all the usual, usual. And I didn't do well in those areas.

• 45:12Jay Shetty?

  That's such a powerful point. I'm so glad you raised that because what we're attracted to is also what we're thinking and believing. And so sometimes when we say, well, this is my type, or this is the kind of guy or girl or whoever it is that I'm attracted to. What we're saying is we think and believe that this will make us happy.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:35Jay Shetty?

  Their appearance, their job, their status, their whatever it may be will make us happy. And we don't question that. We wonder why the person let us down. But using your methodology, the work, as soon as we go back to what were we thinking and believing at that time? We start to write that what we thought and believed would make us happy is what let us down. Not that person.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we were thinking and believing about that human being.

• 46:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Was the cause of our attraction. But once we question what we were thinking and believing about the human being, it loses its validity really and leaves us in an open state of mind where we're more able to see and hear rather than think over.

• 46:26Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, so well said. And that's, it's really registering. And for everyone who's listening or watching right now, when you're listening to this, I really hope that the repetition, every time Katie keeps talking about thinking and believing, what are your thoughts and what are your beliefs? If you genuinely revisit those pivotal, crucial, transitionary moments of your life, you recognize that all of that pain and suffering that you are experiencing or holding on to comes from a thought and a belief that you're still holding on to. Sometimes we're holding on for decades to a thought and belief that this person can still make me happy. And that's why we want them to be back into our lives.

• 47:08Jay Shetty?

  We are holding on to a belief that only that job can make me happy or only that. Thing can make me happy. That is a thought and belief and in that thought and belief is encapsulated all of our suffering. It's almost taking a suffering pill every day.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  And then when we get that job, we can't appreciate it because we're taking the same thinking into that job. So really, not a lot changes. Maybe the money, but that's never enough either.

• 47:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's so profound for me. It's really hearing you repeat it today. And I've heard it before from you, but hearing you repeat it today, and I'm really hoping everyone who's listening is feeling the same way. Every time you say it, it's just gonna step deeper and deeper and deeper and to my head, to my heart, so.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  And it did work. It takes stillness. It's a meditative practice, you know, sitting in, is it true? And then having the courage to sit in, how do I react? How do I treat that person? How do I treat myself when I believe the thought? And then I get still and I witness. And I'm not guessing at how I react and how I treat that person and how I treat myself. I'm witnessing real deal. And who would I be without it? And then I get to see the same situation again, minus, as I said earlier, the post-its I was putting on the event, and I get to witness the real world. I'm sitting in the old world new.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  It's so, and then I have a lot of amends to make, you know, I need to, um, go back to that person, admit my wrong, and apologize, make it right, and start over. It's, um, it's, um, living. It's enlightenment has no power until it's lived.

• 48:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  So to live it out, it goes into the identity, the cells of this apparent body. And, and it's like, it, it wouldn't overlook anything. Love is a power that leaves nothing out.

• 49:13Jay Shetty?

  So true, so true. Katie, I'd like to, uh, share these final two segments with you. This segment of the interview is called Fill in the Blanks. So I read a statement and I ask you to fill in the blanks for us. Uh, and we walk through them. So let's do that. So my first one for you is, Thoughts and judgements are, and you can fill in the blanks.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Faults.

• 49:37Jay Shetty?

  Okay. True freedom starts with.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Inquiry.

• 49:43Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. Being present means?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Love.

• 49:49Jay Shetty?

  Most people believe?

• 49:52Speaker 01

  In goodness.

• 49:54Jay Shetty?

  The work has allowed me to?

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Be free.

• 49:59Jay Shetty?

  Change is hardest when?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  My mind's not open to the world.

• 50:06Jay Shetty?

  Yes. I have no tolerance for?

• 50:09Speaker 01

  To be continued. Life will show me what I have no tolerance for.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  I think of pain, but even physical pain is either remembered or anticipated.

• 50:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Jay Shetty?

  That's a beautiful answer. I like it. And now I want to ask you, what is our final five? So this is the final five where you answer, and that was beautiful, by the way, Katie. You answer every answer with one word to one sentence maximum. These are five powerful questions. These are your final five, Katie. This is your first one. What did you once pursue but no longer value?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Power.

• 50:52Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. Second question. What do you know to be absolutely true?

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 51:00Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow. Okay. Third question. What do you feel is so right, but other people disagree with you?

• 51:10Jay Shetty?

  What is something that you know to be true, but other people would disagree or debate?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  That you're beautiful.

• 51:17Jay Shetty?

  I love that. Okay. Question number four. If you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would that law be?

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Honesty.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Authenticity.

• 51:31Jay Shetty?

  And your fifth and final question. What was the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  There's nothing out of order.

• 51:40Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow. Wow.

• 51:44Jay Shetty?

  Byron Katie, thank you so much. It's been such a joy to be present with you for this time. You know, your work in the work and the four questions is just so universal and timeless that I feel that it can help so many of us out of whatever we're struggling with and gives us a real pattern and process to keep reapplying in our life. I really hope that everyone who's listening and watching today will make the most of going to ByronKatie.com or thework.com. We'll dive into the books, the books that I mentioned, Loving What Is, which outlines the four questions, so that you can truly, truly start asking those questions in your life on

• 52:29Jay Shetty?

  a daily basis, putting them onto paper, and then using them throughout your life. Katie, is there a question that you feel is in your heart that I haven't asked you that you would love to answer or share with us today that you haven't shared?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  What would stop you?

• 52:44Jay Shetty?

  Stop me from?

• 52:49Jay Shetty?

  What would stop me from?

• 52:50Speaker 01

  What would stop you?

• 52:53Jay Shetty?

  From what, Katie?

• 52:59Speaker 01

  From living out of your purpose, off of your purpose, out of your purpose. I don't see that you're immovable in it. And I'm just, what would stop you?

• 53:11Jay Shetty?

  What would stop me is if I stopped praying and doing the work.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Oh, stopped praying?

• 53:21Jay Shetty?

  If I stopped praying and doing the work, then I would be stopped because I'm only immovable because of my intention and my prayers and divine grace. So if I didn't have access to divine grace anymore, then I would be moved immediately because, you know, what power do I have without that?

• 53:40Speaker 01

  I don't see that happening. Thank you, Jay. Thank you, my heart.

• 53:45Jay Shetty?

  No, thank you. Please, give me your prayers and your blessings. They would be very deeply appreciated and I would welcome them with my full heart because, and I can just see there is so much love in your eyes and your heart that... But I feel so fueled and nourished deeply by the energy you're sending my way. I can't thank you enough. I feel overwhelmed by it.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jay. And you have that always, because like you saying,

• 54:19Speaker 01

  this purpose we've been giving. You know, I love that everyone has it. And what we're thinking and believing overrides that. And I love that sameness. And thank you for our time together. It's so precious, Jay.

• 54:34Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. I hope I get to meet you. I'm just like waiting till it's safe. I can actually be in the same room as you and get some quality time with you. This was beautiful and it's going to help so many. It helps so many. So, thank you so much.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jay. To be continued.

• 54:50Jay Shetty?

  Yes, absolutely. I'm so grateful. Thank you, Katie. Everyone who's been listening or watching, please go to ByronKatie.com to find out everything, to get the worksheets, to get access to everything that Katie has shared today. Please do not miss this incredible opportunity that stands for all of us to start making this progress right now. No excuses. It's all free. It's all there. You can go and check out ByronKatie.com. And I highly, highly recommend it. And please also, share this episode. Share what you learned. What did Katie say that really stood out to you? What was the piece of wisdom that you're going to look at? Share it, because when you share it, someone else is going to find it. And then you're going to have that universal connection with them as well.

• 55:32Jay Shetty?

  So, please, please pass it along. Pass on the words of Katie that really stood with you today. Really resonated with your heart. And Katie, I'll hopefully see you soon and meet you soon. Thank you so much.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jay.

• 55:53Speaker 02

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• 56:12Speaker 03

  And bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 56:39Jay Shetty?

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're strong, you're freezing, that's what.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 56:47Jay Shetty?

  I'm not the first then.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.