Dr. Rangan Chatterjee: ON How To Reduce The Chemicals That Ruin Your Brain & Body

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee. Dr. Chatterjee is one of the most influential doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practiced for years to come. He shares that people without a strong sense of purpose have poor health outcomes, lower levels of income and happiness. Dr. Chatterjee simplifies health, what stops us from taking action, the best morning & night routine and the importance of setting the bar low at the start. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:09Speaker 01

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• 1:38Jay Shetty?

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• 2:09Rangan Chatterjee?

  The dad might be in the kitchen eating, the mum might be on one end of the sofa watching television, the daughter, the teenage daughter was on the other end of the sofa on Facebook while she was eating and the sun was somewhere else. I remember it so, so well. I know you guys are busy, you've got different routines, maybe just for one meal a day, if you can, sit around a table together, put your phones off and see what happens.

• 2:38Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I'm so grateful for our incredible community that we have here on the podcast. Thank you for coming back each and every single week to listen, to learn and to grow. And I'm really excited for today's episode because there are going to be so many practical, actionable tips that you're going to learn for your health and wellbeing. This is going to be one of those episodes that you definitely want your notebook out. So don't make the mistake, and if you are walking your dog, or you're cooking, or you're commuting right now and you can't write because you're standing or walking, please, please, please come back to this episode because there are going to be some awesome help tips from our incredible guest. His name is Dr. Rangan Shatigi, is

• 3:20Jay Shetty?

  one of the most influential doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practised for years to come. He hosts the biggest health podcast in Europe, Feel Better, Live More. He's known for finding the root cause of people's health problems and he highlighted his methods in the television show Doctor in the House. He's also an international bestseller and his mission is to help 100 million people feel fantastic by restoring them to optimal health. Rangan, it's great to have you on the show. Thanks for being here.

• 3:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  Jay, thanks for having me.

• 3:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we've been wanting to do this for a while. So I'm glad that we're both finally here right now. And I just wanted to say that when I've been looking through your book, I've been looking through your work, we were just chatting outside for a few moments. You seem like a wonderful gentleman, like I love your energy. I think the work that you're doing is really incredible and genuine. And I think that the way you're presenting this message is so refreshing, fresh and simple. And I really value that. Thank you so much for doing your work.

• 4:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I appreciate that Jay. I think. You know, look, I've been seeing patients now for nearly 20 years. And for me, I've always, I've always taken it seriously. How do you really communicate with people so they actually do what you would like them to do? I've never had that view that actually patients aren't doing what I've asked them to do. I've always thought, how can I communicate better to inspire them to make changes? And I think when you can really simplify things down, people feel, hey, you know, I can do that. Because I think so many people feel like health is too complicated. And I think one of my big games is to try and simplify it.

• 4:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I think you're doing a wonderful job of that. And I think you're so right. I've always looked at it as like, if you look at the teacher and the student or the doctor and the patient, it's almost like if a teacher or a doctor is at a 10 and the patient or the student really wants to learn and they're at a 10, then you've got this incredible relationship. And then often what you find though is that the presentation is like at a five and the patient's at a three. And then you're both struggling to kind of make anything happen. So I'm totally with you and I'm going to be a very, what's the right word? I'm going to be a very sincere patient today as I ask these questions on behalf of myself and my audience.

• 5:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Fantastic.

• 5:26Jay Shetty?

  And I know for me, health was always something that was never emphasized in my family. I always, I grew up quite overweight, actually. And I was like that until 14 years old. And then I lost a lot of weight because I got into a lot of sports and just naturally started to lose weight. The interesting thing was that then I developed this almost like, you know, this feeling of just like, health to me just meant not being overweight. And I didn't realize there was so much more to it. Tell me about some of the reasons of the way we think health is so complex and some of the things that block us and hold us back with our health.

• 5:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I think what really holds us back is, A, I think the fact that people online are arguing over what is the best way to do something. I think that is one of the reasons that leads to inactivity. Because people think, okay, I want to improve my diet, let's say, for example. And then they, they read one blog or they see a social media post from one doctor or one healthcare professional that they like, which is in complete contrast to what another one, who they also respect and admire says, right? So I think this confusion leads to inactivity. I think that's one reason. I think the other thing is,

• 6:33Jay Shetty?

  Good reason.

• 6:34Rangan Chatterjee?

  The other thing for me is that I think we just, we overly focus on one area. Okay, like everyone talks about their diet. Of course, diet is important, but it's only one component and. I guess what I did in my first book is I talked about four key pillars of health.

• 6:49Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 6:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  The four areas that I think have the most impact on the way we feel, but also that we've got a fair degree of control over. I think that control piece is important because there's so much out there that we can't control, like, you know, air pollution, for example. So I really prefer to focus on the things that we can change. And so my approach is very much about, look, have a look at your own life. Look at these four areas. Which one of those pillars do you need the most work in? Most people intuitively know, but I tell you, Jay, what a lot of people do, let's say they change their diet and they're feeling a lot better, then they'll sort of, like, their diet's like 80% good, they'll focus even more on another 5% improvement, another, you know, I'm having a little bit of sugar on Saturday, I need to cut that out.

• 7:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  And they're forgetting the fact that they're already sleeping five hours a night, or they're chronically stressed out. And so I prefer people to take a much more balanced approach. Sure, change your diet, but don't neglect the other areas. So for me, it's all about small changes in these four areas which make a big, big change. And I've seen it time and time again. It is not about doing the most extreme diet, cutting everything out, never going out socially because actually you can't eat anywhere. It's about putting things in perspective and small things done consistently make huge, huge differences.

• 8:06Jay Shetty?

  And what's the starting point? Like, if you're someone who's, I guess, more on the other end, where you're kind of just like, your health's just been kind of something that's going on, you kind of eat wherever you want and you're a pretty flexible area. What's the starting point? Like, what's been your place of like, this is a good place to start? Like, this is a fairly easy, level playing field for everyone to get going on?

• 8:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, so it is highly dependent on the context, it's highly dependent on the individual. Again, I would ask them to look at those four areas and think about which one they feel they need the most work in. Food, movement, sleep and relaxation.

• 8:40Jay Shetty?

  Great, okay.

• 8:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  So I think that's a useful place to start.

• 8:42Jay Shetty?

  I do.

• 8:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then you sort of focus on the one area. Let's say you think, actually, you know what? I'm not really moving my body much. Okay, fine. Maybe you want to start there. And so I give an example, like, I was in my clinic seeing patients a few years ago, maybe seven, eight years ago now, and I saw this chap, I think it was maybe late 30s, early 40s, a little bit overweight, struggling with energy, struggling to concentrate, you know, just general stuff going on and he wanted some help. And at that time, I thought, You know what will really help you? I think some sort of strength training is going to help you because it helps change your mood or give you energy. And he really liked that. And he said, okay, Dr. Chastity, what do you want me to do then? I think that's a great idea.

• 9:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Would you like me to do 45 minutes, three times a week at the gym? And I said, hey, that would be amazing. Yeah, fantastic. He goes off feeling inspired and full of motivation. Four weeks later, he comes back. I see him and I say, hey, look, how have you got on? And he said, ah, doc, you know what? Work's been busy. The gym's quite far away. It's quite expensive. I've not actually done anything. So Jay, I never thought in that moment, why has he not done what I've asked him to do? I just thought, Rongan, you've clearly not given him advice that he feels is relevant and practical in the context of his own life. So in that moment, I literally, I took my jacket off and said, right, I'm going to teach

• 10:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  you a five minute workout that you can do in your house without joining a gym, without buying any equipment and without even getting change. It's what I call like the five minute kitchen workout. And I said, I would like to do that twice a week.

• 10:23Jay Shetty?

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• 11:08Jay Shetty?

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• 11:53Jay Shetty?

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• 12:37Jay Shetty?

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• 13:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  So he goes off and he comes back a few weeks later. But before he left, he said, just twice a week, just 10 minutes a week. I said, yeah, that's all I want you to do. When I review him four weeks later, I said, how are you getting on? He said, Dr. Chastity, I love it. Right, I started off doing it five minutes twice a week. Now I do it 10 minutes every single day in my kitchen, just before I have my evening dinner. And I think, well, the reason I use that story is this. Whatever change we're trying to make in our life, it doesn't have to be like this big unattainable goal. We can break it right down to the simplest possible, you know, the simple possible way of doing that. Just do small things consistently.

• 13:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I find those five minutes twice a week suddenly becomes 10 minutes, seven days a week. So now that guy who would never work out is doing 70 minutes of strength training a week. He's losing weight, he's got more energy, he feels better about himself. That then impacts his relationship with his wife because he's feeling better about himself. Suddenly, he's no longer the person who can't make changes. His identity starts to shift. And I know Jay, you're a big fan of meditation. I have made deals with my patients before to do one minute a day. Now, again, that may sound, well, what's one minute a day going to do? But I found when I asked people to do 20 minutes a day, they'd do it for two days, three days, four days. Then suddenly it would get busy one day. They wouldn't be able to do it.

• 14:29Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then they suddenly become, identity wise, oh, I can't do that. Meditation is not for me. And there was one particular patient, actually, um, in, actually, yeah, where did she live? I can't remember where she lived. But one particular patient who said meditation is not for me. And I knew that actually her stress levels were the main driving factor in her health. Her weight, I think, was coming from her stress. And a lot of her hormonal symptoms were getting flared up. And she said, I can't do it. I've tried it. And I said, okay, do you think you can do, you know, how much do you think you can do in a day? I said, do you think you could do 10 minutes? I'm not sure. Do you think you could do five minutes? Maybe. And then I said, okay, how about one minute? Do you think you could do one minute? Yeah, I could definitely do one minute.

• 15:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  I said, okay, so let's make a deal now. You're going to do one minute meditation. Because it's the UK, she, um, she gets up in the morning and puts a cup of tea on, right? She, she goes downstairs into the kitchen, puts the kettle on. I said, okay, what do you normally do when you put the kettle on? I'll just probably jump onto my phone and scroll social media or something. I said, okay, fine. When you put the kettle on each morning, instead of going on your phone, why don't you do your one minute of meditation then? Why don't you stick it on to a habit that you're already doing? So you don't have to find time in your day. Anyway, she does this and amazing, within two months, she's doing like 20 minutes a day. Because what happens? The one minute each morning suddenly becomes a habit. She starts to feel good. One minutes becomes two minutes. Two minutes becomes five, five becomes 10.

• 16:00Rangan Chatterjee?

  Not because I asked her to increase it, but because she starts to feel good. So look, I have so many tips, but the point I I've realised that when you keep the bar super low, people feel good about themselves, they do it. And then they start to raise the bar naturally themselves.

• 16:17Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yeah, no, I think that's great advice. And thank you for sharing those. I love those. And I've always said to everyone, like, I think all habit change are small things that are big priorities.

• 16:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 16:26Jay Shetty?

  And usually we do it the other way around. We try to do big things and they're all a small priority. So we're trying to do this big thing, like you're saying, like, go to the gym like every day for an hour a day. You're trying to achieve this big thing, but it's like thrown in underneath all your other priorities. Where if you just try and do one small minute a day, but make it a big priority. Another thing that I'm fascinated by that that's really helped me when I'm sharing and teaching and and doing it is not the big goal, but the deep immersive experience.

• 16:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay.

• 16:53Jay Shetty?

  So, so, and hear me out, I'd love to get your thoughts.

• 16:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yes.

• 16:55Jay Shetty?

  So what I say to a lot of people is just when I hear the, oh yeah, I'm doing 10 minutes of meditation a day, but it doesn't do anything for me and it doesn't work for me. For people who can, what I recommend is just like, if you can go away and do a day retreat for meditation, or if you can go to the gym with a personal trainer just for three days and you get a really deep experience of what it feels like to really work out, to really have an awesome experience, to to really know how to use the machines and what to do and what to do with your mind. When you've had that really deep immersive experience, that leaves such a lasting impression on us that we now go, oh, I want to get back to, I want to do that.

• 17:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Jay Shetty?

  And sometimes what we're doing is if you only ever do 10 minutes, it's like, it takes me 10 minutes to switch off my mind every day.

• 17:37Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 17:37Jay Shetty?

  Let alone meditate.

• 17:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 17:38Jay Shetty?

  So it's almost like if you push yourself a little more in the beginning and get a bit of a taste or an experience, it's even like with anything, if you wanted to learn how to surf and you did it one whole weekend.

• 17:47Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 17:48Jay Shetty?

  I guarantee you, even if you fell off a million times, you'd still have had one glimpse of how cool it would be to surf.

• 17:54Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:54Jay Shetty?

  That you'll do it again. But if you only surf for 10 minutes, you you won't get to that point. And then you'll feel like, oh, I can't surf.

• 18:00Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I think, I think Jay, it's such a great way of looking at it because. You know, circling back to one of your initial questions, it's like, well, why aren't people doing this? Why do we struggle to make these changes? And I think sometimes we just don't know. We're not doing enough to know how we're going to feel. And we're a bit confused. We're like, oh, I need some medicine. Well, I don't really know how to do it. Am I doing it right? Am I meant to be shutting off my monkey minds and actually learning how to do it, like investing? Yeah, sure, it might take a bit of money, but also really investing your time to spend like a day or two days learning how to do it. Then I think you can tap into like five minutes a day if you want to, because you've got something to, you know, to reference it by. Or, you know, if someone wants to take up yoga, for example,

• 18:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  but they're a bit confused. Sure, there's many great YouTube channels that people can go and learn. I totally get that. But there's also something super powerful about going to a local class.

• 18:52Jay Shetty?

  Yes, 100%.

• 18:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Like, go to your class, maybe a few times, connect with like minded people, but then go, you know what? Actually, maybe I can do 10 minutes of this every day.

• 19:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Maybe I can do this with my partner for 10 minutes every day. And I think it's really not as complicated as we think. And that's, I think that's my key message that I really try and get across to everyone, whether they're the CEO of a company, or whether they're a single mum on benefits, working two jobs. I'm super passionate that all of us have, you know, have the right to good quality health information. I think the same things are affecting people in all walks of life. Sure, the stresses in the life of someone who's on benefits, working two jobs and a single mum, may be very different stressors from the CEO of a company. But nonetheless, some of those solutions are actually very, very similar.

• 19:46Jay Shetty?

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• 19:59Jay Shetty?

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• 20:40Jay Shetty?

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• 21:24Jay Shetty?

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• 21:59Jay Shetty?

  No, I love that point. And one of the things you pointed out there, which I think doesn't get talked about enough, is you talked about being with like-minded people. And how have you seen, when you've worked with people, the difference between people who try and do things collectively, collaboratively, and with that accountability versus people who are just doing things individually? Like, how have you seen that? Because I think that's a really important point you raised there.

• 22:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, look, I had a really, really phenomenal experience. So my first two TV shows were something called Doctor in the House. And these are people who were struggling with their health, had often been under their primary care doctor, often been under a specialist, often were taking loads of pills, and they still weren't feeling good. And I would go into their houses for four to six weeks and try and help them. And I'm, you know, super grateful that I managed to help all of them, sometimes get rid of their conditions, but certainly significantly improve the way they felt.

• 22:47Jay Shetty?

  Would you live with them as well for six weeks?

• 22:48Rangan Chatterjee?

  I would, actually, yeah.

• 22:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's insane.

• 22:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I would. Not the whole time. I would stay a few nights, which frankly is probably a bit awkward for me and the family to have this kind of wellness doctor in their house observing everything. But I tell you, you do learn stuff when you do that. You see stuff in a way that you just wouldn't otherwise have seen. You pick up on various things, relationship dynamics, stresses that are going on, how people eat, not only what they eat, how are they eating? I'll tell you one thing from that that I really discovered, and this is probably one of my top tips, actually, is I went around all these different families around the UK. It's the same here in America. People aren't eating together, right? I would go into families or couples, and it would be dinner time. Like, the dad

• 23:33Rangan Chatterjee?

  might be in the kitchen, eating. The mum might be on one end of the sofa, watching television. The daughter, the teenage daughter, was on the other end of the sofa, on Facebook, while she was eating. And the son was somewhere else. I remember it so, so well. And I would make a recommendation to all of these guys. Say, guys, look, I know you guys are busy, you've got different routines, maybe just for one meal a day, if you can. Sit around a table together, put your phones off and see what happens. Now, what was really interesting, whether it was a family or whether it was a young couple, right, all of them reported back to me, hey, you know what, like I'm eating better, but I feel closer to the people around me. Like this, this couple, the guy said to me, you know what, I can't believe how much it's changed

• 24:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  things because I'm talking to my wife now, I'm actually finding out about her day and we're, we're feeling closer, we're getting more intimate and all stemmed from just eating together. And this is something I'm so passionate about that, as I know you are, many times these days, we're with the people who mean the world to us, right? We're with our friends or with our partners, we're with our kids, we're physically with them, but mentally, we're not in the same room, we're sort of lost in our phones. And look, I'm not criticizing, I will do this sometimes, okay? So I'm not trying to say I'm whiter than white here. No, I have this issue as well, it's a constant battle. But even when we're with these people that we love, we're not present.

• 24:59Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 24:59Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I think that is a key thing for us. And it's not about getting rid of your phones, right? It's simply about, hey, but a priority, like maybe at mealtimes, maybe actually when you have, when you're out for dinner with your friends, or when you're sitting at home with your family, or your girlfriend, or your boyfriend, maybe just put the phones away. It is such a simple thing, it makes a huge, huge difference. So that was sort of one element.

• 25:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. Yeah. No, no, that's a great answer. I'm really glad you brought that up. And it's interesting that you observed that when you were living with family.

• 25:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Jay Shetty?

  Because that's something we don't see, you know, you don't think, you don't think of that as being a block to health. And I know that for me, and that's one of the reasons, what we were talking about earlier, like I have a commitment with my wife and that was that I would have dinner four to five nights a week with her.

• 25:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Jay Shetty?

  And so like when we first moved to New York and moved to LA, I was getting invited to all these networking events and all these cool places to be and like dinners with this person, dinners with that person. And it was always just like, I was like, if I can't take my wife with me, I don't want to do that because then we don't, you don't see that person, right? And this one meal a day that you're asking people to do, it's not that difficult to do one meal a day.

• 26:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  Jay, look, it's such a good point. We, there's so much opportunity out there these days. Many of us, you know, we, as I do, we look at our Instagram, we'd be like, oh God, that guy's doing that cool thing or that, or I should do that, I want to do that. You feel like you're missing out if you're not doing this stuff. But we've really got to focus internally and go, I would ask people, listen to this podcast, who are the people that are actually really important to you? Have you spent real quality time with them recently? If you haven't, that's okay. Just be aware of that and try and figure out what can I do? Can I give you another example that really illustrates it?

• 26:36Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 26:37Rangan Chatterjee?

  So I saw this thirty six, thirty seven year old chap in my clinic. And he was, from the outside, really, really successful, right? Own business, driving a sports car. He was working late into the evening on his business, emails, Saturdays, Sundays, working all the time. And he came to see me and he said, Dr. Chastity, look, look, things are starting to change. Like, I'm quite low in energy sometimes. I can't maintain my concentration a lot of the time. Sometimes I struggle to get out of bed and sometimes I'm feeling a little bit low. Is this what depression is? And I said, okay, look, let's try and figure out what's going on. So, look, we spent a lot of time talking. I did some tests, they were all normal.

• 27:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  And it became super clear to me that he never saw any of his friends. Now, he was actually quite lucky. He lived in the place where he grew up. So he had friends who lived nearby, but he never saw them. He said, yeah, I kind of, I see what they're up to on social media. So, look, he would see pictures of where they were going. He would see pictures of what they were, where they were going on holiday. He'd see pictures of what they had for dinner last night, but he wasn't seeing them. And I said to him, look, I tell you what, are you open to this? What I think would be really helpful for you. So the next six weeks, I want you to see at least one of your friends once a week. And when you see them, I'd love you to consider putting your phones away and just being really present for the interaction. And, you know, he was pretty desperate because he was at a low stage. So he said, yeah, okay, I'll give that a go.

• 28:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  Six weeks later, he comes back in and I say, hey, look, how are you getting on? He said, Doc, I feel like a different person. My energy's up, my mood's better, I'm smashing it at work, I feel really good. I said, okay, great, what did you do? He said, well, the very first time, I played five-a-side football with my friends who I'd not seen for years. I said, okay. And then he goes, but after that, we didn't really have time. Every Sunday morning, we went to the local cafe and we just caught up for an hour, and we just caught up for an hour over a latte. That is all he did. So my question is, did this chap have a mental health problem? He certainly had symptoms that were consistent with that sort of diagnosis. Or was it really that he had a deficiency of friendship in his life? And when he corrected his friendship deficiency?

• 28:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  Everything comes back online. He feels better. He's working better. He's more productive. You know, he's got more energy. And I think that's a very powerful story because we are told that we're living in this ultra-connected time, that we've never been this more connected. And sure, in a digital sense, I absolutely agree. But when it comes to real, deep, human, meaningful connection, I'm not sure we've been this isolated. And I think, you know, I don't know, you may have discussed this on the podcast before. Studies have shown that actually, the feeling of being lonely is as harmful for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

• 29:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've read that.

• 29:29Rangan Chatterjee?

  And if people are wondering why that is, can I, would you mind briefly explain that?

• 29:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm listening.

• 29:33Rangan Chatterjee?

  You've got to understand that your stress response is there to keep you safe, right? That's what it's there for. It evolved millions of years ago. So very simplistically, 2 million years ago, you're in your hunter-gatherer community, getting on with your, your business, doing whatever you're doing. If a wild predator was to attack or to approach, your stress response would kick into gear. So many things would happen in your body, right? Your blood sugar would start to rise, so you can run faster. Your amygdala, that's the emotional part of your brain, that would go onto high alert, so that you're hypervigilant to all the threats around you. You know, that's an appropriate response when you are literally in danger. The problem today is, is that our stress responses have been activated,

• 30:16Rangan Chatterjee?

  not by wild predators, but by our daily lives. So if your email inbox and your to-do list is stressing you out every day, your body might be pushing your blood sugar up every day, which is going to cause low energy, obesity, and ultimately lead to type 2 diabetes. If you're stressed out every day, your amygdala is going to be on high alert. You're going to be hypervigilant to all the threats around you. Jay, that's an appropriate response if there's a predator there. That's an appropriate response if we're in downtown LA at night, walking down the street, and we think someone might be following us. You want to be on high alert. But if that's happening day in, day out to your life, that's what we call anxiety.

• 30:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right? So, once you understand the fundamentals of the stress response, you can understand why 90% of what a doctor like me sees in any given day is in some way related to stress. So if we go back to this loneliness piece.

• 31:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  If you were lonely, why is it so toxic? Two million years ago, if you were not part of your tribe, or if you were outside your tribe, your body is super smart. Your body's figured out that, hey, I'm now vulnerable to attack. I better prepare in case I do get attacked. So your body becomes inflamed, your immune system gets ramped up. All these things happen to protect you. The problem is, that's happening to many of us these days, from feeling lonely, from this lack of real human connection. It literally changes our biology. This is not kind of the soft stuff, right? This is the real hard biological stuff that we're not talking about enough. I know you make a huge effort on your content that you put out to talk about this stuff, but it is so, so important.

• 31:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I go back to this 37-year-old patient of mine. I could have diagnosed him, I could have medicated him.

• 31:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I was just being asked, yeah.

• 31:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  And for me, that may be appropriate in some cases, right? But I'm always trying to get to the root cause of the problem. And he had a friendship deficiency.

• 32:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's amazing, by the way. I love that because I think it's so refreshing to hear you prescribing something lifestyle-based.

• 32:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Jay Shetty?

  Rather than something medical. And like you said, sometimes it is that, and that's fine. What I'm fascinated by, and I think you explained that incredibly well, and I've heard that many times before, but I think you did a great job of actually making it really clear for everyone listening. What does someone do when they start sensing that? Because that anxiety that you just said is so widespread right now, right? It's looking at your notifications, it's feeling lonely, it's comparing on Instagram, like you're lost and you're feeling that anxiety. And it's almost like, you just talk about it, it's like, oh, it's jealousy, or it's envy, or I'm just dealing with comparison or whatever. But actually, it's this anxiety and there are biological changes in the body.

• 32:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 32:53Jay Shetty?

  What does someone do on a daily basis when they're? It's like, literally what you just described is, we're dealing with our level anxiety as if a wild predator is attacking us every single day, if not multiple times a day.

• 33:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 33:07Jay Shetty?

  So that sounds scary because you're reacting to that level. What do we do to bring that down and to bring it into reality?

• 33:13Rangan Chatterjee?

  So I think there's two ways to look at that. One is when It's happening, what can you do?

• 33:17Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 33:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then there's also, well, what can you do to sort of reduce the likelihood of it happening in the first place?

• 33:21Jay Shetty?

  I like the preparing part. Let's do both.

• 33:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Let's do both. Okay, so the preparing part, okay. So I think a useful way that I like to describe this to people, because, you know, yes, I've written a book on stress, but stress is a very woolly term, right? And it means different things to different people. So when I was writing, I was trying to figure out, how can I, you know, how can I accurately communicate it in a way that people understand? So I have this concept of micro stress doses and macro stress doses. A macro stress dose is, you know, something really, really significant, you know, like a relationship breakup, a bereavement, maybe some trauma, something like that, you know, that is a significant dose of stress that probably needs some form of therapy or something, you know, you know, you have to deal with that and process that in other ways.

• 34:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  I contrast that to micro stress doses or MSDs. Now, we are all getting hit by these MSDs every single day. And I define one of these MSDs or a micro stress dose as this. It's just a small hit of stress that in isolation, we can manage. It's no problem. But when they start to accumulate one after the other, after the other, after the other, they start to get us closer to what I call our own personal stress threshold. When you get to your threshold, that's when the problems happen. That's when that innocent email from your boss becomes a problem. That's when that sort of, you know, that's when you have a row with your partner. That's when you scream at your kids. That's when actually you overreact to something or you're in the car and someone cuts you up and you start to lose it, right?

• 34:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  Because you're at your threshold, because stress is fundamentally normal. So I make the case that you wake up and many people will leave the house in the morning before, before they get out the house, they have been hit by 15 micro stress doses.

• 35:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 35:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  I give an example, which I think people might resonate with. So a very typical example today is this. People are a bit stressed out, like at their work or in their life. And so they don't want to go to bed, right? They just like, they want to unwind. So they stay up late watching Netflix. Okay, there is no judgment here. Okay, I'm just simply explaining. So you're up late saying, watching Netflix and you get to midnight and you think, oh man, I've got work tomorrow, I better get to bed. Okay, so you go to bed, you put the alarm on for 6:30 on your phone. So at 6:30 in the morning, boom, the alarm's gone off. You're in a deep sleep. That is micro stress dose number one. You look at the alarm clock and you think, ah, I've got a bit more time. Okay, you put it on snooze. Six minutes later, it comes on again. Micro stress dose number two. Then you think, oh, I better head out now.

• 35:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  So you quickly check your email and go, oh, man, there's three work emails from yesterday. I didn't do them. MSD number three. Then you quickly go onto social media. So just have a quick look. Oh, man, someone's had a go at me on my last post. MSD number four. Then you realise, oh, my God, I've been in bed for half an hour doing this stuff. I really need to get out of bed now. And MSD number five. And you can easily see how before you leave the house, you have been hit by 15 MSDs. And that means you are closer to your own stress threshold, which means it won't take much in the day to tip you over. Now, how can you change that? Well, I saw your video recently on morning routines and your morning routine is phenomenal. And I think morning routines are a critical way to make you more resilient. Even if I can't change the amount of stress in your life,

• 36:34Rangan Chatterjee?

  this will buffer you and make you more resilient so you can deal with them. So I think a morning routine is critical for people when they wake up. And if people think they don't have time, I can tell you, I've got busy patients. Sometimes even a five-minute morning routine will work. Of course, if you've got an hour or I think you have a two-hour one J, which is, which looked incredible. But I want to make this accessible to someone thinks, you know, I've got, I've got mums who have to take kids to school, who are rushing around and I give them a framework on how to do a morning routine. So my framework is this, I say, look, a morning routine can be anything. Different things to different people. But I think a useful way to look at it is to think about the three Ms. First M is mindfulness, the second M is movement and the third M is mindset.

• 37:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  And it's just a simple framework. So for me, for example, at the moment, I will wake up. I I used to use my phone to go on the Calm meditation app. I'm actually not doing the meditation, I'm doing some deep breathing, so a sort of breathing form of meditation. So I actually don't need my phone at the moment. But if you need a meditation app, that's cool. I just say, you know, put your phone on airplane mode. So you're not seeing everything that's coming in. But I'll do 10 minutes of deep breathing. Then I'll do like five, 10 minutes of movement, let's say some hip stretches or something. And then I'll do mindset and mindset can either be reading something positive. I'll have four, I'll have a few books there that I'm enjoying reading and things that make me feel good. And I'll read a few pages or I'll do something called affirmations.

• 38:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  Now, look, I've got young kids, so I try and get up before my kids so that I can do my routine. But my daughter has a sixth sense of when like daddy's up and often she'll creep down. And often she'll be there when I'm doing my movements, so she'll just join me. And then if she's with me, because I also want to do the mindset piece, we do affirmations together.

• 38:21Jay Shetty?

  That's nice, yeah.

• 38:22Rangan Chatterjee?

  We'll sit together, hold hands and for two minutes we'll say, I'm happy, I'm calm, I'm stress free. I'm happy, I'm calm, I'm stressed. We'll say that for two minutes. At the end of those two minutes, she's got a big smile on her face. I feel incredible and what's more important is that feeling lasts and buffers me for the entire day. Those days when I think, oh, you don't have time today, you've got to get going. I start to react to things. I'm not as focused, I'm not as present. To really break it down for someone listening to this who thinks, I get it, but I don't have time. I've got one patient in particular who does five minutes and she uses my three M's. The first piece, for one minute she does deep breathing. She does a breath that I taught her called the three, four, five breath. When you breathe in for three, you hold for four and you breathe out for five.

• 39:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  She does that for one minute. Then she does two minutes of movement. Coming back to what you said before, she had been to like one yoga class in her life, but she learnt a couple of moves that she likes. So she does her favourite moves for two minutes, right? This is what we're talking about, the immersive experience to learn it, right? So one minute of deep breathing, two minutes of yoga, and then she does two minutes of reading. She's got a list of books there, you know, a pile of books, and she picks one and for two minutes she reads. She has told me this has transformed her life. She doesn't scream at her kids as much. She's much more present in the day. And for her, her eczema has got significantly better.

• 39:44Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 39:45Rangan Chatterjee?

  This is why I'm so passionate about this stuff, right? eczema is a skin condition, but fundamentally, it is a slight dysfunction of one part of the immune system. When you're stressed, it impacts the immune system, right? So for her, doing this morning routine has significantly improved her skin condition.

• 40:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:04Rangan Chatterjee?

  And this is, you know, this is why I'm so passionate about this, you know, this sounds like small things. You give it a big priority, as you say.

• 40:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  And it really leads to a lot of improvements.

• 40:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. And that's so stretchable, because you can do it in five minutes, you can do it in 10, you could give yourself 15, and you could grow it, but it could be as simple. And I love the three things together.

• 40:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Can I ask you, Jay, actually, I'm super intrigued, because in your two hour morning routine.

• 40:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  I bet.

• 40:28Jay Shetty?

  I do all three of those things.

• 40:29Rangan Chatterjee?

  I was gonna say, because, so what do you do?

• 40:37Jay Shetty?

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• 41:21Jay Shetty?

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• 42:02Jay Shetty?

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• 42:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, so I wake up and my biggest practice is my meditation practice, which includes everything from breath work through to visualization, through to mantra and affirmations. So my meditation-

• 42:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  You cover the whole lot.

• 42:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I do all three types of meditations, breathing, visualization, and mantra affirmation. And so I do all three of those, and then I go to the gym. So I do about gym for about forty-five minutes every day, about four days a week. So for me, it's like that's my morning routine, and mindset is a huge part of it. And I try and find, my mindset isn't necessarily in the morning because my days are so flexible, but I would get at least thirty minutes of reading in a day around something I love. And this isn't just, this isn't just something I started doing now. Like, and this is the point I keep reminding to everyone. And yes, I don't have kids. So I've always put that out there and said, "Look, I don't have kids. I'm not going to sit here and say it's gonna- Be the same when I have kids, so I'm just putting it out there. But the other thing I've said is that when I've been working, when I've been working at a company, I didn't just do this when I became an entrepreneur.

• 43:36Jay Shetty?

  I've done this for years and I've avoided watching two extra episodes in the evening. So that I can get that time back in the morning. And I think that's the difference that I sleep much earlier. So when I wake up early and get two hours at the start of the day, that's because I want to sleep at nine thirty P M.

• 43:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, man, snap. I mean, I I've really, I tell you what's changed for me when I had kids is it's shifted my bedtime earlier. Because I've realized for me, and this actually, this point's super important for people. You've got to figure out what works for you.

• 44:05Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 44:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right. For me, I'm a much better person. I'm a better father. I'm a much better dad. I'm a better husband. When I have time to myself in the morning.

• 44:15Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 44:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  If I get up at the same time as everyone else and I'm sort of reacting.

• 44:19Jay Shetty?

  Me too.

• 44:19Rangan Chatterjee?

  It doesn't work so well for me.

• 44:21Jay Shetty?

  Same.

• 44:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  So I've shifted my bedtime earlier so that I can get up earlier before them.

• 44:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  And, you know, if you do have kids, when I, you know, I've shared that my daughter sometimes comes down. You know what? I kind of also feel that, hey, I'm helping her to see daddy prioritizes his self care. Daddy is, I hope I'm showing her.

• 44:41Jay Shetty?

  Well, you're doing it with her. That's amazing.

• 44:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  That this stuff is important. So it doesn't have to be, because ultimately I could get frustrated. And if I'm honest, I used to get frustrated initially.

• 44:49Jay Shetty?

  She was around then.

• 44:50Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I'd be like, oh, man, I really wanted this time to myself. And that sort of tension is stressing me out, which is counterproductive. And now I've learnt. Hey, look, I I'm doing a lot of personal growth anyway, but I've learnt to kind of accept things and actually really accept what's going on. And being like, okay, my daughter said, cool. So what's the message I can learn? Cool. Get her involved.

• 45:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:11Rangan Chatterjee?

  And it's really fun. And I I hope this leads to her putting these practices in off her own volition when she's older. You know, I'll tell you in a few years if she does it.

• 45:20Jay Shetty?

  No, I'm sure she will. And I love that. And let's talk about that sleep piece, because I think for so many of us. When you've had a long day at work, you had a stressful day at work, you come home, you've put the kids to bed. And you just think, I need to decompress. I'm going to put the T V on. And it may be ten P M. By then or whatever it is. And you get lost, like you said, till midnight or one A M. Whatever it is. And then you wake up. What is there any decompression in watching a show? Or actually, would, in my opinion, the sleep and the decompression through sleep is so much more powerful than the entertainment value you think you feel better by watching two episodes of your favorite show?

• 45:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I agree. Look, I think, I think we're looking at symptoms here. The symptom of being so stressed all the time is that we need to find ways of relieving that stress, whether that's sugar, whether it's alcohol, whether it's binge watching Netflix. We're trying to hide a numb, like, something else that's going on in our life. And that's okay if you're conscious of it, but sleep, you know, I hate prioritizing those four pillars of health, because it's against what I stand for. But if you push me, I might argue that sleep might be the most important, because when you sleep well, it's easier to do all those other things. It's easier not to be reactive, it's easier to eat well, it's easier to be more, you know, all these things are easy when you sleep well. The biggest problem in society regarding sleep is simply this: we're not prioritizing it, right?

• 46:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  We think it's optional, we do other things, and when we, when we're done, when we've exhausted all other possibilities, oh, I better get some sleep in. But once you stop prioritizing sleep and making that the foundation of your day and think, oh, well, I need to get up at this time, therefore, what time do I need to go to sleep? You will find very quickly your life changes. Now, one thing I'd love to share is that I've been seeing patients for almost 20 years now, and in almost every case, a sleep issue is usually a lifestyle issue. There are very, very few cases relatively that are what we call a primary sleep disorder which needs a treatment. Most things, we are doing something in our lifestyle that we do not realize is impacting our ability to sleep at night.

• 47:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  Caffeine is a big one. We all know caffeine can be problematic for sleep. People don't realize that if you, if you go to Starbucks at midday and buy a large latte, at 6:00 PM, half of that Starbucks latte is going around your blood and your brain. At midnight, a quarter is going around your brain, right? So. I say to people, enjoy your caffeine if you want it, enjoy it before noon if you can. If someone thinks caffeine does not affect them and they're struggling with their sleep, I challenge them for seven days to just have it in the morning and just see what happens. If it doesn't make a difference, fine. But if it does, now you're empowered with information and you can choose what you want to do with that. My job is not to tell somebody what to do. I feel my job is to empower them so they start to experience it for themselves.

• 48:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  So they then can be in charge, they can be sovereign and decide, oh, I'm gonna do this. Yeah. So that's a big one. What you do before bed is super important, right? And you know, you've got to wind down. For any of your listeners who do have kids, they will recognize that you need to give your kids a little routine. What do you do before bed with your kids? You don't give them a load of sugar to amp them up. You don't put on the TV really loud and actually get them really emotionally charged. You don't put the lights really bright. You lower your tone, you soften the lights. You know, you might put some music on, you might read them a story. We as adults think somehow we're different from kids, but we are not, right? If you, I have a rule, like one hour before bed.

• 48:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  I try 90 minutes, but really it's normally one hour before bed. I make a mental switch in my head and I go off from my daytime to my nighttime. I am now in preparation for sleep. I'm switching off, my laptop goes off. Mostly, I'm not perfect, sometimes I do it right and it always affects my sleep. Yeah. But I do, you know, I'll listen to music, I'll read in bed. Like my wife and I have a little rule that we try and sort of help motivate each other to do, which is to charge our phones in our kitchen. If I bring my phone into my bedroom, I cannot resist looking at it. Of course not. I just can't resist. Yeah, no one can. So I, you know, I live in a house, so downstairs is where my phone charges.

• 49:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then when I, you know, when I just switch off and read, I actually fall into a really deep slumber. Now, I just want to share a little very quick story for people who think that technology does not affect their sleep quality. One of my buddies, actually who lives out here in California, and I actually met him a couple of days ago. But a couple of years ago, he said to me, Wrongen, look, I get all this stuff about technology and blue light before bed. I feel sorry for those people who affect, I'm totally cool with it. I said, okay, cool. Anyway, then he bought like an Oura ring, like one of these, you know, these fancy tracking rings. I'm not saying everyone has to buy that, you know, but he bought an Oura ring. I think they are very good. And he phoned me up about a year ago. He's like, Wrongen, oh my God, I've just had a look.

• 50:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  Every time I do work emails, I'll go on a social media just before I go to bed. The amount of deep sleep I get has almost vanished.

• 50:25Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 50:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right? So he needed, ironically, he needed technology, tracking technology to tell him. And that changed his behavior. So you may fall asleep, but it's not just the quantity of sleep, it's the quality of sleep. Try for a seven days. Again, I challenge people to try. See if you can phone your phone, switch your phone off for one hour before bed and see what happens. I bet, I almost guarantee that you will feel different in the morning. You will feel calmer. And also there's this phase just before sleep that I've been learning about from reading some neuroscience is that the phase in your brain, I think it's called the hypothalamic state of consciousness. Don't quote me on that if that's incorrect, but I'm, that, that what you do just before bed is critical. Your brain processes it when you sleep.

• 51:11Rangan Chatterjee?

  So if you've got in, in, in a battle over Donald Trump online, right? Or into a row with your friend on Facebook just before you go to bed. Guess what your brain's gonna be thinking about at night? You gotta protect that. If you feel that you are the most important person in your life, and I hope people who follow your work are starting to get to that point where actually they put themselves first. The best thing you can do is prioritize your sleep. And that starts one hour before it. Take ownership of that time. You do that for a few days, you will feel the difference. You will feel bulletproof in the rest of your life.

• 51:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, this is great advice, by the way. I think this is awesome. And I'm so glad we're going deep on some of these things because, and it's, it's nice to hear you say a lot of the stuff that I so deeply believe in.

• 51:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 51:56Jay Shetty?

  And, and explain it so incredibly well. One of the things I love about what you're saying is you bring in lifestyle. You talk about loneliness and friendship. You also talk a lot about purpose and it's

• 52:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  For sure.

• 52:06Jay Shetty?

  Feeling around lowering stress and the role that purpose plays. And often purpose isn't really used in a health context, but you really bring it in. And, and I love that. I mean, the podcast is called On Purpose, but

• 52:16Rangan Chatterjee?

  Hey, absolutely.

• 52:17Jay Shetty?

  But I, I feel so much that Purpose is so closely linked to health. And, and tell us, yeah, tell us from your perspective and your findings.

• 52:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, you know, this is, J Y started the book with purpose as the first quarter of the book, because I thought fundamentally, a life which has no meaning and purpose is inherently a stressful life. Right? Yes, you could do all the other things, but ultimately, if you don't have that reason to get up, and you don't have that direction in your life, I think things can be very, very challenging. Now, the science backs that up. You know, people with a, and I'm sure you probably are going to cover this in your book, I would imagine, but, but people who don't have a strong sense of purpose have poor health outcomes. They have lower levels of income. They have lower levels of happiness. All these things come from something that we, we might often have thought is a little bit soft, right? This is the stuff. And this is why, you know,

• 53:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  I love, I'm super proud of my first book. My, my second book, I think, really tackles the issues in health that we're not talking about enough. Do you know what I mean? And that's why I think meaning and purpose is so important. Now, why is purpose so important? We sort of explained that, but I remember a few years ago on Facebook, I saw one of my friends post this, this idea of ikigai, which I'm sure you're familiar with, this Japanese idea of ikigai. And then these four circles, and they said, ikigai is where these things meet in the middle. And those four circles were, were try and find something you do in your life that you love, that you're good at, that the world needs, and that pays you money. And I remember looking at that. And it was just a couple of years after my dad had died. So I was going through a huge sort of, I cared for my dad for like 15 years with my mom and my brother.

• 53:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  And dad dying was one of the biggest shifts for me. And I, that's really set me on this path to kind of personal growth and trying to figure out who I am and what I'm doing. And I looked at that and I thought, ikigai, I want ikigai in my life. I fancy a bit of ikigai. And I would talk to it about, I would talk about this concept with my patients. And a lot of my patients would say, yeah, I like that, but it's just too intimidating. I don't know where to start. And when I was doing the UK book tour for the book in January, I was in London, I was taking a Q and A at the end, and this Japanese student put a hand up. And she said, Dr. Chasi, I just want to share that I've grown up with this concept.

• 54:27Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 54:27Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I have found it so, um, I've actually found it really hard. I found it an impossible bar to live up to. And I found that so interesting because I love the concept, but then I'm always thinking about, well, what if my patients or what if my friends are finding it too difficult? So I simplified it. I tried to create a new, well, I did create a new framework that I call the live framework in my book to help people ultimately get more meaning and purpose in their life. Now, I love Ikki Guy, right? I'm just, I'm not criticizing.

• 54:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 54:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  If you're like, when I worked in Oldham, like for seven years, which is, you know, the, the practice I worked in was a lot of poor patients, a lot of them on benefits. They didn't really have the thought of actually finding one thing that ticked all those boxes was just like pie in the sky, right? So the live framework I really enjoy, and we don't need to go through it all necessarily, but it's L I V E, L for love, I for intention, V for vision and E for engagement. Now, if we just take the first one, because I think this is really practical take home for people. The first one is love. The research shows us super clearly regularly doing things that you love makes you more resilient to stress. But conversely, being stressed day in, day out makes it harder for you to experience

• 55:41Rangan Chatterjee?

  pleasure in day to day things. It kind of works both ways. And so I always talk to my patients about passion. What are you doing in your life that you really love? Again, I mean, another patient example, which I think brings it to life. 51 year old chap, maybe, I don't know if that's, I don't know how old your, your listeners are, right? I don't know if that's a bit old or not, but I think there's a, there's a very, there's a very powerful story here. 51 year old chap comes in to see me. He's the CFO of a local plastics company. You know, good job, good money. He's married, he's got kids, he lives in a pretty big house. He comes in to see me, again, worried about depression. He said, dog, you know, I struggle to get out of bed sometimes. I'm indifferent about things, you know, I just lost that get up and go. I feel quite down sometimes. I said, okay, okay, fine, you know, I tried to tease out what's going on.

• 56:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  I said, how's your relationship with your wife? Yeah, so, so, you know, we don't see each other that much. It's fine. Very, very indifferent. I said, um, how's your job? Job, you know, it just pays the bills, you know? I don't really enjoy it, but I need it, pays the mortgage, house, put food on the table. I said, okay, you know, have you, have you got any hobbies? Doc, I don't have time for hobbies. I'm a busy guy. I don't have time. You know, I said, what about the weekends? Weekends, I've got to do the housework, got to do all the chores, take the kids around to their sports clubs. I said, okay, did you ever have any hobbies? Yeah, well, you know, as a, as a kid, as a teenager, I used to love playing with toy train sets. I said, okay, do you have a train set, right? And he's like, yeah, I think so. I've got one in the attic, but it's really dusty. I haven't seen it in years.

• 57:11Rangan Chatterjee?

  I said, okay, what I'd love you to do tonight when you get home is get your train set out. Now, look, I appreciate, this may not be the advice he was expecting from his doctor, you know? I love it. But this was the advice I gave him, then I didn't see him for a little while, which is not uncommon. We have so many patients, we can't follow them all up. Three months later, I was in my clinic car park about to do some home visits and I bumped into his wife. And I said, hey, how's your husband doing? She said, Dr. Chastity, I feel like I've got the guy I married back again. He comes home from work, he's pottering around on his train set. He's on eBay trying to buy collector's trains and he subscribes to this like monthly magazine now. He's just like a different person. I still hadn't seen him. Three months later, I see him.

• 57:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  He'd done some blood tests, he came in for a check with me. And before we went into that, I said, hey, how are you getting on? He's like, doc, I feel like a different person. I feel happy, I feel energized. I absolutely love it. Thank you so much. I said, you know, how's your, how's your relationship with your wife? He's like, we've never been closer. Things are super, super good. So what about your job? I really, really enjoy my job now. So what does that tell you? You know, you asked the question again.

• 58:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Did this chap have a mental health problem? Sure, he had symptoms. I could have diagnosed him with something. Or was what he really had a deficiency of passion in his life? When he corrects his passion deficiency, everything else comes back online. Yeah, he feels better with himself. Now he's enjoying his job. Now he's closer with his wife. Now he's got more energy. And it started with him playing with his train set. So for people listening to that, I would love them. And, and actually to make it super easy. I challenge all of my patients, say, look, can you give yourself a daily dose of pleasure, even if it's just for five minutes, right? Five minutes. It could be a walk, it could be listening to a podcast, reading a book, it could be

• 59:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  watching one of your videos, one of your feel-good videos, like go onto your account and watch one of them to make you feel good. Doesn't matter, whatever you enjoy doing, give yourself, I want to give a daily dose of pleasure, I want people to give that the same priority as they might give the amount of vegetables they have on their plates. When we talk about health, we're not talking about pleasure, we're not talking about passion. It is so important. And, you know, again, another question I'd ask people is, think about in your own life, when did you last do something that you love, that you did for you? Not so you could post about it on social media, right? And again, I'm not criticizing if you want to do that, but understand the things that you do because you want external validation and understand the things that you do because it makes you feel good.

• 59:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  If you've not done it for a while, look at your schedule, make a phone call, put something in your diary, so at least it's there.

• 59:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I love what you've done there because I think you've just, and I talk about this a lot, is taking purpose off a pedestal.

• 1:00:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:04Jay Shetty?

  Because I think that when purpose is like this big, elusive, intangible thing, I was speaking at a corporate HR conference this week at Microsoft in Seattle, and I was talking about the need to give people inside companies micro purposes. I was like, stop trying to get everyone to find this like one purpose that overarches their life and give them something to just get excited about, even if it's for three months. So what can you get excited about right now? Like you can get excited about a train set right now. You don't need to figure out like whether you're going to build a train track or anything for real. And I love that because I think it's so grounded in reality and so often it's stuff that we left in our youth. I mean, one of the reasons why I started making videos again is because I asked myself that question. I was like, what would my younger self be sad that I stopped doing?

• 1:00:48Jay Shetty?

  And my answer to that was writing, and my answer to that was being creative, and my answer to that was, you know, expressing myself through the written word and spoken word. And that's kind of why I went back to it. And that's where I get the most buzz. I get the most buzz from putting together words that can help people and, you know, being creative.

• 1:01:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  But Jay, it's like a ripple effect. Why I start small is if someone starts to reconnect with their passion, You know what? That will start you to, that will lead you to connect with yourself more. And you may make different decisions in two years. You may not know what your meaning and purpose is now.

• 1:01:20Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:01:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  Start with passion and it will start to become clear.

• 1:01:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you, absolutely. And it's as simple as that, like.

• 1:01:27Rangan Chatterjee?

  It is.

• 1:01:27Jay Shetty?

  It's as simple as that. It's just start with what you like doing right now, even if you don't love it.

• 1:01:31Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Jay Shetty?

  Start with what you just like doing and what you like getting involved with. And same with the people around you. I think we're not, we're not decisive enough with our lives and our time about like, you know, so many people say to me like, gee, I spend 75% of my time with people I don't like. And just like shift that, you don't need to, you don't have to, like, there's no need to do that. So, thank you for getting us started on that. I'm so glad we dove into purpose.

• 1:01:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Hey, not at all.

• 1:01:52Jay Shetty?

  Because I think it's, it's such a powerful way. And what was, tell me about intention.

• 1:01:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  Intention?

• 1:01:57Jay Shetty?

  I wanna know, yeah, cuz I like.

• 1:01:59Rangan Chatterjee?

  What I mean by intention is, again, my, if someone is already out there living their, their purpose, this may not be relevant, right?

• 1:02:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'm trying to bring it down to people who, who do, who, who put it on a pedestal and think, I can't do that.

• 1:02:10Jay Shetty?

  I think for most people, it's on a pedestal.

• 1:02:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  For sure, exactly. And so, intention is about doing something each day with complete mindful intent. It doesn't need to be your whole day. Of course, I'd love it to be your whole day. I don't live my whole day with real mindful intent. I, I hope at one point I'm able to.

• 1:02:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Rangan Chatterjee?

  But I can't. So I say, choose one thing. Let's say you love, I don't know, coffee, right? Or tea, whatever. You know, I'm, I'm in, I'm in LA now, so I feel less about talking about tea. I feel more like talking about coffee, which is what everyone does in, in the US. But when you're drinking it, when you're making it, right? Make it with real intent and purpose. Maybe for five minutes of the morning, focus on your coffee ritual. Like, I used to have a real coffee problem. That was a crush for me. And what I used to do is I would, it would be a real ritualistic part of my day. I'd get up, I'd put the kettle on and I'd weigh out the beans on a scale. No, I didn't have social media, I didn't have music on, it was all quiet. I'd literally watch the water pour on it and it starts to froth.

• 1:03:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'd put the, on the, on the cafeteria, I'd put it on top. I'd just sit there for four minutes, just watching it, smelling it, taking in the aroma, and then mindfully drinking it. Right? The Japanese have tea rituals. It takes like an hour to prepare a cup of tea. Right? It's a real, it's not about the tea. It's about the process around it and what that symbolizes. I'm just trying to ask somebody to find something. Maybe it's a cup of coffee. Maybe it's a cup of tea that they prepare and drink completely mindfully. Because I find when you do that, it bleeds into the other aspects of your life. It's not about that five minute session necessarily. It's what it does. It's a bit like meditation, isn't it? Like meditation, often you don't get all the benefit in the moment. You notice it later.

• 1:03:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  Like you notice when, I spoke to Mike Watkins once on my podcast, who's a meditation teacher. And he goes, the mistake a lot of people make is they try and assess the the result of the meditation immediately when they've finished. And sure, you may feel calm, but often it's in the other twenty three and a half hours in your day.

• 1:04:15Jay Shetty?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:04:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  Where you get the benefit. And so the intention piece is simply choose something, right? And I think coffee and tea are quite good examples for people. Because they're things that we all do. And just do it mindfully with presence. That is a form of meditation, you know, and, and it's to try and take even meditation off its lofty pedestal and bring it right down. And I guarantee you do that seven days in a row, only for a few minutes. You will notice yourself being more mindful and present at other times.

• 1:04:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm totally with you on that. And I, I talk about that a lot in my work right now as well of just like, you've just got to do what you're doing anyway, whether it's showering, brushing your teeth, coffee, cooking. Like you do any of those acts mindfully. You don't even need to find that. And what I loved about what you said is that what we try and do is we go, I don't want to focus during this activity and I want to focus during this one. And I think that's a mistake because when you focus on something as simple as making your tea or your coffee. Like you said, it bleeds into it and now you're focused on everything. Whereas if you go, oh, while I make coffee, I'm just going to do it quickly.

• 1:05:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Jay Shetty?

  But then when I get to that meeting, I'm going to be really focused. It doesn't work.

• 1:05:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  We got it wrong. We flipped it.

• 1:05:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  Pay attention to the small things and the big things will start to take care of themselves.

• 1:05:30Jay Shetty?

  Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And we try and do it the hard way around. I'm going to focus for an hour, but I can't focus for a minute.

• 1:05:35Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. It's like, we're going to go to the gym and work out for an hour. It's like, well, maybe just start five minutes a day.

• 1:05:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right? And so, you know, Jade, the overall issue, the point for me is, you know, with all these patients, these tens of thousands of people I have seen, 80% of what we're now seeing, right? 80% is in some way driven by collective modern lifestyles. It's that simple. And that's not being judgmental. I'm not putting blame on people. I get it. Life can be very tough. It can be very stressful. It can be very busy. But if you focus on those small things and do, pick, pick one thing you heard about in this podcast, not all of them, pick one thing that resonated with you.

• 1:06:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Rangan Chatterjee?

  If you heard something that didn't resonate with you, fine, leave it. Pick the one thing that did. Like, I would say the five minutes in passion. I mean, you know, you don't need a prescription to do something we love, right?

• 1:06:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  Start there and see what happens in the rest of your life.

• 1:06:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. That's amazing, Rangan. Rangan, we end every episode with a final five, which is our final five rapid fire, quick fire round. So it's like one word to one sentence answers.

• 1:06:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  Try to keep my stress levels down now.

• 1:06:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I say that and I'm like, yeah, I feel the stress. You feel the stress. Do your three, four, five.

• 1:06:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'm doing my three, four, five.

• 1:06:43Jay Shetty?

  Three, four, five. So these are your final five. Number, number one question. Are some people truly more creative at night?

• 1:06:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yes.

• 1:06:53Jay Shetty?

  Oh, okay. Tell me more. I'm intrigued. Like, if some people are like, I need to stay up at night to be more creative to, you know,

• 1:06:59Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, when you mean like that.

• 1:07:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  I would say no.

• 1:07:02Jay Shetty?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:07:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Because I think we kid ourselves that we're night owls. So many of us do kid ourselves and we use light to keep us up and then we get that second wind. But you can easily change your rhythm. So I'm going to say no.

• 1:07:13Jay Shetty?

  Okay, good. I'm glad. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Um, let's see this. I'm picking some good ones for you.

• 1:07:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Lots of the breathing.

• 1:07:25Jay Shetty?

  What's something you're trying to learn right now?

• 1:07:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'm trying to learn how to use social media as a way, as a mirror, to help me know when I've got an issue to process. So if I see something on social media that I get a rise from, instead of getting annoyed, I'm now using it to look at, hey, why is that bothering you?

• 1:07:44Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I love that. I love that. What a great answer. Amazing. That's a brilliant answer. Question number three, what was one of your habits that was the hardest to break for you?

• 1:07:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Coffee.

• 1:07:54Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 1:07:54Rangan Chatterjee?

  I was drinking way too much caffeine. There's nothing wrong with caffeine necessarily, but I was using it as a crutch. And when I identified why I was using it, now I managed to pretty much cut it out.

• 1:08:03Jay Shetty?

  Okay. Question number four. You're very good at this, by the way. The question number four, if you weren't a doctor, what would you be doing?

• 1:08:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  Musician.

• 1:08:09Jay Shetty?

  Oh, really? What do you play?

• 1:08:10Rangan Chatterjee?

  Guitar, piano, clarinet. I used to, like, I used to play, I used to tour. I recorded a solo EP that I toured around the UK, pre the internet.

• 1:08:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:19Rangan Chatterjee?

  Pre, so it's not much.

• 1:08:20Jay Shetty?

  Can't find it.

• 1:08:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  But yeah, it's a big part of my life, music. It's my passion.

• 1:08:24Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. And question number five, if you could set a 21 day challenge for my audience, what would you ask them to do? The one thing you'd like them to do for 21 days? In a row.

• 1:08:33Rangan Chatterjee?

  For five minutes a day, do something that you absolutely love. That's it.

• 1:08:40Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. I love it. Rangan, you're incredible. Thank you so much. This was such a brilliant podcast. Great interview. Loved every piece of advice you said. Everyone who's listening, make sure you come back to this one. And as Rangan said, all you need to do is pick one. Just pick one of these things. Make it a big priority in your life. Take a small step and you can see his passion flying off the screen or in your ears. And, and I want you to recognize that he's made it sound so simple, but that's because it is. And, and I really value that today. I feel like you've made it just sound so easy and effortless. And when I'm sitting here listening to you, I'm like, you're right, it actually is. And whenever we try and complicate it by being more theoretical or more intellectual or any of these things, actually we're making it a lot harder on ourselves and for other people. So I think today you've really made it effortless and

• 1:09:24Jay Shetty?

  and easy, Rangan. And thank you so much for doing that.

• 1:09:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  Thanks, Jay. It's a pleasure to meet you. Keep on doing the great work that you're doing.

• 1:09:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, thank you, mate. So as I said at the beginning, Rangan's new book is out. It's called The Stress Solution, The Four Steps. To reset your body, mind, relationships and purpose. Go grab the book right now. If you enjoyed the conversation, this was just the tip of the iceberg of all the wonderful insights, challenges and takeaways that are inside this book. It's truly going to change your life. Go and grab a copy.

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