Pod Insights Office Ladies Dwight’s Mustard Shirt & Pam’s Cardigans About this episode This week on Office Ladies 6.0, Jenna and Angela get fashion forward with a deep dive into two iconic Office wardrobe staples: Dwight’s mustard shirt and Pam’s cardigans. Angela uncovers the surprising origin story behind Dwight’s famous short-sleeve button down, while Jenna explores the epic history of the cardigan, from 19th century battlefields to the halls of Dunder Mifflin. Along the way, the ladies reveal how wardrobe choices reflected Pam’s emotional arc, discuss the psychology of the color yellow, and share their favorite “dainty delights”. So button up your short sleeves, grab your coziest cardigan, and enjoy!
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Transcript 0:04 Speaker 00 I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you. Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of The Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Lady 6.0.
0:25 Speaker 01 Hello, everyone.
0:26 Speaker 00 Hi.
0:27 Speaker 01 Angela, did you get my audio memo about my knees yet?
0:33 Speaker 00 No, did you leave it on the drive in?
0:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:35 Speaker 00 I was talking to my mom.
0:36 Speaker 01 That's fine.
0:37 Speaker 00 I always want her on my drive in.
0:39 Speaker 01 I'm so excited about my knees. I have to share.
0:42 Speaker 00 K-N-E-E, your knees.
0:44 Speaker 01 My knees.
0:44 Speaker 00 Okay, what's happening?
0:46 Speaker 01 Okay, you know, my knees have been aching from my Tamoxifen for like so long that it became just like this baseline existence.
0:54 Speaker 00 Okay.
0:55 Speaker 01 I didn't complain about it much. You're like, "Oh, I've heard you complain about a lot of things, but I've been keeping the knees to myself."
1:01 Speaker 00 Knees weren't on the list.
1:02 Speaker 01 No. But I went to acupuncture yesterday for my hot flashes, which are back, which you've gotten many messages about. And while I was there, I just offhandedly said, "By the way, my knees are like also super achy. Lady, I left that acupuncture session, 35 minutes of acupuncture, my knees are not aching." It was one of those things, you know, like when you're sick and then you get better and you're like, "Oh, my God, I was so sick. I didn't even realize that cold was so bad." That's how my knees were. Like now that I'm like, I forgot knees could be forgettable. Like, I'm just walking around not thinking about how bad my knees hurt.
1:42 Speaker 00 We parked at the same time and we got right into just like catching up, you know, chatter. "I thought you had a pep in your step."
1:52 Speaker 01 I was so excited.
1:52 Speaker 00 I just thought you were in a really good mood. But maybe it's also because you don't have like ouch, you know, when you walk.
1:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, so all my Tamoxifen ladies, I just want to throw it out there. If you're having the achy joints, which is a very common side effect, I don't know. The acupuncture, it was great.
2:10 Speaker 00 Okay.
2:11 Speaker 01 Not working on the hot flashes right now, but that's all right. We're one thing at a time.
2:16 Speaker 00 Okay, one thing at a time.
2:17 Speaker 01 All right, should we get into this episode? Because we had a very hilarious start to our day so far, involving you, Angela.
2:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, in honor of today's episode, you guys, I am dressed in Dwight's mustard shirt. And I brought a brown tie, but I didn't know how to tie it. Josh was already gone when I was getting dressed, and so Sam tried, then Jenna tried.
2:40 Speaker 02 First, I gave up. I immediately gave up. I couldn't remember. I panicked. My mind went completely blank. I'd never put a tie on before.
2:48 Speaker 00 What?
2:48 Speaker 02 And then it took two minutes for all my life to come back to me.
2:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:51 Speaker 00 Oh, my goodness.
2:52 Speaker 01 I tried. Eventually, Sam got it. It's not great, though, Sam.
2:56 Speaker 02 No, no, it's not ideal.
2:57 Speaker 01 To be fair, like, the back part is longer than the front part, but it's on.
3:01 Speaker 00 You know what?
3:02 Speaker 01 It's a win.
3:02 Speaker 00 It's on, and do I look like Dwight?
3:04 Speaker 01 No, I mean, you look kind of adorable.
3:06 Speaker 02 Yes, you do.
3:08 Speaker 00 Well, thank you. Well, why don't we tell everyone what we're doing today?
3:11 Speaker 01 Yes, this is a perfect example of what I love about our new format for Office Lady 6.0.
3:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, it was inspired, you guys, by a letter sent in from Christie D. in Wheeling, West Virginia. She titled her letter "Diaries of the Mustard Shirt."
3:31 Speaker 01 You were so excited when you got this piece of mail. You told me, "We are doing an episode about Dwight's mustard shirt." And you have not told me what Christie sent in. You got this letter, snail mail, and you have hidden it from me.
3:42 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And also, Jenna, then this led you to have the idea to deep dive Pam's cardigans.
3:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:50 Speaker 00 So today's episode is Dwight's Mustard Shirt and Pam's Cardigans. And we both have some fun nuggets to share. We have not told each other. I have something that I am so excited for you to hear. It is from someone you know very well, and you do not know this information about Dwight's shirt.
4:08 Speaker 01 Wow.
4:09 Speaker 00 I know.
4:10 Speaker 01 Okay, well, first, let's start with our chit chat suggestions sent in by Melissa C. from Washington.
4:18 Speaker 03 Hey ladies. So my chit chat suggestion is the opposite of pet peeves. Plenty of people have pet peeves, little things that drive them crazy. But I'm wondering if you guys have anything that I like to call dainty delights? Just little random things in life that bring you a disproportionate amount of joy. A couple of those things for me are if I'm able to do the perfect eyeliner swoop in one stroke, um, I could squeal for joy. Or if I have just the right amount of an ingredient when I'm cooking something, it just brings me so much satisfaction. So I would just love to hear what your dainty delights are. Thanks ladies.
5:00 Speaker 00 I just love the expression dainty delights.
5:03 Speaker 03 Same.
5:04 Speaker 00 And you know, Melissa, I thought a lot about this when we chose this chit chat for this week. Because I, I realized something about myself that I hadn't really put together before.
5:14 Speaker 03 What is it?
5:15 Speaker 00 That dainty delights are what get me through life. It's not really the big milestone moments, you know, that sometimes everyone, that's what they clamor on about. But the dainty delights, like, just get me through whatever life throws my way.
5:31 Speaker 03 It's true. And I love this moment to name them and to think about them. Because I thought of so many little things.
5:40 Speaker 00 Same.
5:42 Speaker 03 All right, what'd you think of?
5:43 Speaker 00 I mean, just so many little things, like, you know, I just love my back porch. You know, for years I didn't really have a table. It was dirt and not enough concrete. And we finally just made a space where I could put a table, you know? And I love it. And I sit out there a couple of times a week in the morning with just my cup of tea and I just sit there and I listen to the birds and I look at my feeders and I'm just so happy.
6:10 Speaker 03 I know this about you.
6:12 Speaker 00 Yeah.
6:12 Speaker 03 It's your most favorite place to be.
6:15 Speaker 00 It is.
6:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:16 Speaker 00 And then one of the things I love to do, and I actually have one for you lady, I made it for you. I did not bring it in today because I just want to bring it straight to your house.
6:24 Speaker 03 Okay.
6:25 Speaker 00 You know, I love to repopulate succulents. So I have my big momma succulent, I call her. She's super old. She's really big. And whenever she's too full and starts leaning over her pot, I take a little piece and I put it in a pot. So now I have her children all around my house. And then also, I'll just put it, you know, in the ground if one falls off. And so I just have succulents everywhere. So I took some clippings from one of my big pots and I put it into a pot for you.
6:56 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm so excited.
6:57 Speaker 00 Yeah. But I love doing that. I've done that for people before and I've done it for neighbors or just like a teacher. And it makes me so happy to see my succulent. It's like, I feel so connected to nature in a way and like sharing nature like that.
7:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:13 Speaker 00 Those are two that came to the top of my mind.
7:16 Speaker 01 Well, I know I've shared this on the podcast before, that I love my first cup of coffee in the morning.
7:23 Speaker 00 You do.
7:24 Speaker 01 And I think I've also shared that my favorite way to have my first cup of coffee is in a handmade mug.
7:30 Speaker 00 Right.
7:31 Speaker 01 Something made by hand by a person. I just love touching a piece of art while I'm drinking that first cup of coffee. So I collect those. And in general, I just like to drink coffee out of a mug. If I have to go somewhere in the morning, I don't love a travel mug.
7:49 Speaker 00 Lady, I've never shared this with you. So I have a lot of tennis rituals, you don't know.
7:55 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:56 Speaker 00 So I take my tea and a travel mug, a big one, to tennis in the morning, but I pack in my tennis bag, a ceramic coffee mug.
8:04 Speaker 01 That I then pour it into when I get to tennis. Cause I don't like the metal, like, I don't know, I like the mug taste. Do you know what I mean? Well, that's what I do when we come to podcasts. I bring it in the insulated thing, but then I have my pockets mug that I pour it into when I get here. But when I do school drop off, I still want coffee. And I'm just going to do the school route.
8:30 Speaker 00 Right.
8:31 Speaker 01 And then drive home. It's, you know, I've got like an hour loop to do all the drop offs and all the things. And I want coffee with me, but I don't want to drink it out of a to go mug. So my dainty delight is that I found a ceramic. Travel mug. It is basically a mug without a handle that fits in your cup holder. And it comes with like a washable lid.
8:55 Speaker 00 But you're drinking out of ceramic?
8:57 Speaker 01 Yes, while I'm driving. And I don't even put the lid on because I'm just.
9:02 Speaker 00 You're crazy like that.
9:03 Speaker 01 I am. But it's funny because in the carpool line, there's always this one other mom that I see. And she's got like a full, regular mug of coffee with her. And we've talked about it. I've been like, I see you. I know this because I've done that. I've driven with a mug of coffee. I've gone for walks in my neighborhood, holding a mug of coffee in the morning.
9:27 Speaker 00 I once sent you a picture. I was on vacation and I took a mug of tea on my walk. And I sent it to you, not knowing this about you until right this moment. And Jenna, I remember what you wrote back. You were like, oh, this is my favorite thing. And I this whole time thought it was because I was on a beach.
9:48 Speaker 01 No.
9:49 Speaker 00 It's because I had a mug in my hand.
9:51 Speaker 01 Walking on the beach with a mug of your drink.
9:54 Speaker 00 I said, you're from Hawaii?
9:56 Speaker 01 Yes, I do.
9:57 Speaker 00 And I was like, oh, she loves Hawaii. Not that you don't, but it was the mug.
10:02 Speaker 01 It was the mug. Yes. So when I found this item, it was at like a little breakfast place. And I saw it and I like exclaimed, I was like, oh, look at this. I've been looking for it because it is really hard to drive with a mug of coffee.
10:17 Speaker 00 Well, it's probably not safe.
10:18 Speaker 01 It's not a good idea for me. But I immediately texted the other coffee mug mom. And I was like, I'm gonna make your day right now. Look at what I found. So that is my dainty delight. I really love it every morning. And I have found a way that no matter where I'm going or what I'm doing, I can have my coffee out of a ceramic mug, my travel one. It's not handmade, but.
10:43 Speaker 00 But it serves a purpose.
10:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I bet I could find a handmade version of it. You know, it just has to fit in a cup holder, basically.
10:51 Speaker 00 I think this might be a case for a mom detective.
10:53 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. Or a lady who Googles.
10:55 Speaker 00 Sort of one in the same. Sam, do you have a dainty delight?
11:01 Speaker 02 I do. I think this counts. The last two or three times that I've come home from the studio recording here, the music I've been listening to, the song has faded out exactly as I'm parking my car. Like, when I turn my key off, it's like the last cymbal or the last guitar is just ringing out, and I turn my key off. And it's, it's as close to what I imagine doing heroin. Must be like, just this warm gooey feeling that spreads over me for at least an hour.
11:29 Speaker 00 That is such, like, a feeling of satisfaction, though, when anything times out that way.
11:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:35 Speaker 02 That, and I recommend the subreddit r/thingsfittingperfectly. It's just a collection of, like, somebody buying a DVD and it perfectly fitting into the missing slot that they had on their shelves. Or like, a puzzle piece being put in, the last puzzle piece is a popular one. It's all what, like, this feeling, this dainty delight, that gooey feeling you get.
11:57 Speaker 01 I love it.
11:57 Speaker 00 I love it.
11:58 Speaker 01 Matt, what about you?
12:00 Speaker 04 Sam, I love when the song ends right as you're pulling it. There's nothing like that.
12:05 Speaker 02 It is, yeah, yeah.
12:06 Speaker 01 Is this particularly, like, a man thing?
12:09 Speaker 02 I think it might be a straight white guy thing. It might be you imagining your walking offstage, having just performed.
12:16 Speaker 00 You're in your own music video?
12:17 Speaker 04 I forgot about that. I love that. I do love my mugs. I found a dainty delight in a very unexpected place, which is physical therapy that I've been going to recently. I had a minor knee injury, and I was really not looking forward to going to physical therapy. And it is the best vibes in there. It's this, like, husband and wife shop, and there's all these people in there, and they were talking about their hip replacements, shoulder replacements, and you get, like, this special treatment, like, ice packs and the electric zapper thing on your knee. And it's really become the highlight of my week. I have friends in there. We chat about our injuries. We chat about music and sports. It's just, you never know where you're gonna find community.
12:55 Speaker 00 I love it. That really makes me happy.
12:59 Speaker 01 I think that's your going tomorrow. Are you, you can't wait?
13:02 Speaker 00 You can't wait. It's the highlight of your week.
13:06 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh. Well, Melissa, thank you so much.
13:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, we really enjoyed that chit chat. And we're gonna take a break. And when we come back, it's time for Diaries of the Mustard Shirt.
13:28 Speaker 01 All right, we're back and Angela and Sam have been, I don't know, in secret discussions about some secret clip.
13:35 Speaker 00 I sent a secret clip this morning.
13:37 Speaker 01 Okay.
13:37 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, my share today, as you guys know, is all about Dwight's mustard shirt. And if you remember, when we had our amazing costume designer on the podcast, Carrie Bennett, she talked about how when she was putting together the costumes for The Office, she went to an actual paper company called the Glendale Paper Company to observe the look and the feel of this small business. And many of those looks inspired the look of the Dunder Mifflin employees, including the very famous Dwight Wolf t-shirt. But I wanted to start this section with a very special message from a dear friend who had an inside scoop on the origin of the very first Dwight
14:22 Speaker 00 short-sleeve button-down shirt.
14:24 Speaker 01 Okay.
14:25 Speaker 00 Here it is.
14:27 Speaker 05 Hey, everybody. Hey, Office ladies. It's me, Holliday, wife of Rainn Wilson for 300 years, you know, a little over 30 years, but it's so good to be here. And listen, I know that there's been some talk and magic and mystery about the origin of Dwight's mustard shirt. So I just wanted to add a little story to the trivia pot on this one. You know, as I said, Rainn and I have been together a long time. And whenever he'd get an audition, we would kind of make up a costume, you know? There weren't that many auditions back in those days and we were really, really broke. So we would always go and get stuff for the audition.
15:10 Speaker 05 So in this case, for The Office, they went in for the first audition and he read for a bunch of roles, but then didn't get a callback for like six months. So by the time he heard about this callback, I was really, really pregnant and we were even more broke. So we were like, oh, my God, we got to find this outfit for this character. And...
15:33 Speaker 05 I was inspired by pictures of my father, who was a dentist. And he was like the president of his dental school class. And he wore these really shirts, just like that, short sleeved, pen protector, you know? And we were like, where can we go for that? So we went to Sears at the Oaks. I don't even know if Sears exists anymore. But anyway, we were looking for like flammable, something that would like catch fire. It's that really fake material. Had to be the color of what might be the inside of a diaper, you know? Like, so, and we found the mustard shirt and this green one.
16:14 Speaker 05 And then went home and did a bunch of stuff with the hair and that part came out of it. So then it went really well, as, as we can see. And they tried lots of different costumes and just kept going back to that mustard shirt. And they're like, listen, you gotta go buy them out from Sears. So we went back to Oaks, got them all, and there you have it. So I'm wondering if NBC owes me money, frankly.
16:42 Speaker 05 But listen, love you guys, love all you all. And just want to send a thank you shout out to you, Angela, and you, and Steve, and Nancy, for coming and supporting our organization, Lee Day, on the tennis court. And if you ever need any costume ideas for your, you know, a new tennis dress or whatever, I will take you shopping. Love you, bye.
17:09 Speaker 01 That is amazing. And Lady, while she was telling that story, I pulled up Rain's audition video. And he is wearing, he, it looks like in the video, he's wearing the kind of greenish one.
17:23 Speaker 00 Cause they bought two.
17:24 Speaker 01 Yeah. But the whole look, like the hair,
17:28 Speaker 00 Mm hmm.
17:29 Speaker 01 It's amazing.
17:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:31 Speaker 01 I had no idea. Wow.
17:34 Speaker 00 Isn't that just so fantastic? Just their partnership.
17:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:39 Speaker 00 Their marriage is so special. They are just really each other's rock. And I just, it transported me back to those early days, you know, when you had an audition and you're scrambling with your friend or your partner, just like, can you help me put together this outfit? Like, I want to look the part.
17:55 Speaker 01 It just, again, it's an example of how open, like Greg was to our vision of our characters, because he borrowed so much of what we put into our auditions, costume, hair, look, all of it.
18:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, so I've been holding on to this for so long, because when I was at the Lee Day Haiti dinner that we had after the tennis event, some fans had put together questions and they wanted to ask Rain about this mustard shirt, this iconic look. And he was like, well, really, Holliday is the one that should answer that question. And she told the story. And I was like, oh, my goodness, we have to share this on the podcast.
18:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:37 Speaker 00 I mean, I never knew that they put the outfit together themselves.
18:42 Speaker 01 Amazing.
18:42 Speaker 00 Amazing. And I do want to say there are some comparisons online to Dwight's look to that of two different characters on the movie Office Space from 1999. David Herman plays Michael Bolton and Steven Root, who plays Milton, both kind of have this short-sleeved button-down shirt look.
19:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:00 Speaker 00 That probably looked a lot like Holliday's dad.
19:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:04 Speaker 00 That was sort of that outdated style. I did a side by side, because I know you love a side by side.
19:10 Speaker 01 I love a side by side.
19:11 Speaker 00 And I'll put it in our stories. But I do see it. Here it is.
19:16 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, I see it.
19:19 Speaker 00 Mm hmm.
19:20 Speaker 01 There's something about the short sleeve shirt with the tie. It's just a special kind of.
19:27 Speaker 00 Person?
19:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, I get it. It's like you're hot under your suit jacket. I mean, especially as a woman with hot flashes.
19:38 Speaker 00 You would do the shirt.
19:39 Speaker 01 I would do a short sleeve shirt.
19:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
19:41 Speaker 01 Under my blazer.
19:42 Speaker 00 Well, I went to the show Bible to see what it said about Dwight shirts. And per the show Bible, this is what it says. Dwight doesn't like long sleeve shirts. Not enough blood circulating to his hands.
19:56 Speaker 01 Yes, he has a line about that.
19:58 Speaker 00 And he has a shirt guy in the garment district of New York.
20:02 Speaker 01 Wow.
20:02 Speaker 00 Wow. But now let's really dig in with this fantastic letter sent in from Christie D. In Wheeling, West Virginia. Here's the opening paragraph titled Diaries of the Mustard Shirt. Dear Office Ladies, I know Dwight is known for wearing a mustard shirt. I decided to find out if that is truly his favorite shirt. Let me first explain how I broke down the shirts. If the opening was a different shirt than the rest of the show, it counted. If the opening was the same day as the rest of the show, it only counted as one shirt. If there was a flashback, it did not count. And then in parentheses, she said, I did count the tux worn in Threat Level Midnight because it was such a big part of the episode.
20:45 Speaker 00 And at this point, I'm just making up the rules as I go.
20:48 Speaker 01 Okay. Got it.
20:50 Speaker 00 If Dwight wore a shirt, then changed and changed back into the original shirt, it only counted as one shirt. For example, season two, episode six. Dwight has on a mustard shirt. Then he changes for the fight. Then he changes back into the mustard shirt when they get back to the office. That only counts as one mustard shirt. I mean, she really dug in, lady.
21:08 Speaker 01 I appreciate that she has a system.
21:10 Speaker 00 Well, lady, I went through her entire accounting of every single type of shirt that Dwight wore. It's 11 pages.
21:18 Speaker 01 Wow.
21:19 Speaker 00 Season by season. And since my focus today is about specifically Dwight's mustard shirt, here are some of the stats from Christie's document. In season one, no mustard shirt the entire season. Dwight wore these colors: shades of gray, lightish brownish green, and one black anime shirt.
21:39 Speaker 01 Wow, but all short sleeve?
21:40 Speaker 00 All short sleeve. Oh, this is a short sleeve document here.
21:44 Speaker 01 Okay, short sleeve is, we assumed.
21:47 Speaker 00 Yes.
21:48 Speaker 01 Yes.
21:48 Speaker 00 In season two, we have our very first mustard shirt sighting, episode two, sexual harassment. In the original version, if you go to 1 minute and 33 seconds, Dwight's iconic mustard shirt makes its television debut.
22:03 Speaker 01 I can't believe that we didn't get a mustard shirt until season two. It kind of blows my mind.
22:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, it was like shades of grays and light blues and greens.
22:11 Speaker 01 Okay.
22:11 Speaker 00 In season two, there were a total of seven mustard sightings. In season three, there were a total of nine mustard shirts. Season four has seven. Then we have the trifecta of the big mustard shirt seasons. Are you ready?
22:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
22:26 Speaker 00 Season five is our big winner, 22 mustard shirts.
22:30 Speaker 01 What? Wait, season five had like 26 episodes and he wore 22 mustard shirts?
22:37 Speaker 00 Correct.
22:38 Speaker 01 Wow.
22:39 Speaker 00 Then season six had 15 mustard shirts, season seven had 18, season eight, seven, season nine, six, a total of 91 mustard shirts in the entire series.
22:50 Speaker 01 Okay, 201 episodes of The Office, 91 mustard shirts.
22:56 Speaker 00 There you go.
22:57 Speaker 01 Wow.
22:58 Speaker 00 Lastly, I really thought we should hear from Dwight himself on how he regards his famous mustard shirt. It's from season five, episode nine, Frame Toby.
23:08 Speaker 06 Okay, let's get this started.
23:13 Speaker 06 What are you doing?
23:13 Speaker 07 I am the bait.
23:15 Speaker 06 For what?
23:16 Speaker 07 Men find me desirable.
23:17 Speaker 06 No, no, no.
23:18 Speaker 07 Oh, it's a good day, too. I'm wearing my mustard shirt.
23:20 Speaker 06 You're the bait for Toby?
23:21 Speaker 07 Mm-hmm.
23:22 Speaker 06 No.
23:23 Speaker 00 It's a good day, too. I'm wearing my mustard shirt.
23:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I love it that we refer to it as a mustard shirt.
23:29 Speaker 00 It's perfect.
23:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:31 Speaker 00 And I want to wrap up my Dwight's mustard shirt section of this episode with this that I've read online. I was really curious. If Dwight thinks his mustard shirt is his lucky shirt, right, it's a good day because he's wearing his mustard shirt, then what does liking the color yellow say about you?
23:51 Speaker 01 Oh.
23:52 Speaker 00 So this is according to Empower Yourself with Color Psychology I found on the Internet.
23:59 Speaker 00 And there was a whole list of different characteristics of your personality, but here are the ones I thought spoke to Dwight. If your favorite color is yellow, you might have a personality that can be very critical of yourself as well as others. You are a perfectionist. You analyze everything all the time and are methodical in your thinking. With a yellow personality, you're impulsive and make quick decisions, but often out of anxiety, jump in too quickly and rush things rather than taking things at a steady pace. Maybe Dwight, maybe not on that one.
24:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:33 Speaker 00 Oh, it also said you have a happy disposition and are cheerful and fun to be with. So maybe not Dwight on that one. It also says you have a strong, independent streak in you and are selective with your choice of friends, keeping a small group of close and like-minded friends rather than being involved in team events or large social gatherings.
24:52 Speaker 01 Very Dwight.
24:53 Speaker 00 Very Dwight. You like to think you are intelligent and well-educated with knowledge about many topics.
24:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
25:00 Speaker 00 You are good at anything that involves the mind rather than physical pursuits, chess, crosswords, card games, etc.
25:07 Speaker 01 I don't know.
25:08 Speaker 00 I don't know.
25:09 Speaker 01 Where's Paintball fallen there?
25:11 Speaker 00 Also, he was pretty good at basketball.
25:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:14 Speaker 00 Yeah. All right, here are the final two. You are a smart dresser and always dress to impress. Now, I think Dwight did like to dress nice. I think, in his mind, he took pride in his suit.
25:29 Speaker 01 Yes, he did. That's right. Just because it maybe didn't land on others as fashionable, it doesn't mean he wasn't making an effort to be polished each day in his way.
25:39 Speaker 00 Exactly. And then lastly, if you like the color yellow, you can also be arrogant, pretentious, and snobbish. And if you want to get Dwight's look, you can go to tvstyleguide.com. It's got the whole list of everything that makes up a Dwight look.
25:57 Speaker 01 That was delightful. It was especially delightful coming from you dressed as you are. I wish everyone had a visual of this because it really was great.
26:06 Speaker 00 Here, take a picture and I'll put it in our stories. All right, I'm very excited to hear all about Pam's cardigan.
26:13 Speaker 01 Well, it's interesting because initially, when we talked about this, I was gonna talk about the history of pantyhose.
26:19 Speaker 00 You were.
26:20 Speaker 01 Because I wore so many pairs of pantyhose as Pam. But when I started to deep dive it, it was kind of meh. Like, it wasn't inspiring me.
26:29 Speaker 00 Okay.
26:29 Speaker 01 So I pivoted and I started to deep dive the cardigan sweater, something else that I wore a lot of on The Office, and it did not disappoint. And, lady, I think you in particular are going to love this.
26:43 Speaker 00 Oh, my goodness. I'm so excited. You did bring a cardigan in today.
26:47 Speaker 01 I'm not wearing it because of my hot flashes, but it's here.
26:51 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:52 Speaker 01 It's on the back of my chair. So, according to the internet, because I read several articles, the cardigan is named after James Thomas Brunanel, the Seventh Earl of Cardigan.
27:07 Speaker 00 So faucy.
27:08 Speaker 01 Yes. And it dates back to the mid-19th century. Because Thomas Brunanel was a British Army officer who was famous for leading the charge of the Light Brigade during the Crimean War. That could be a whole other podcast.
27:28 Speaker 00 Okay.
27:29 Speaker 01 This charge, it did not go well.
27:31 Speaker 00 Oh, is this the office ladies do history?
27:33 Speaker 01 Yes. Basically, he led a group of men on horses. They had swords.
27:40 Speaker 00 Okay.
27:40 Speaker 01 And they charged the Russians who had artillery.
27:44 Speaker 00 This is the cardigan guy?
27:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:46 Speaker 00 Okay. Swords versus?
27:49 Speaker 01 Artillery.
27:49 Speaker 00 Artillery.
27:50 Speaker 01 Yes. Basically, they had gotten some bad military intelligence.
27:55 Speaker 00 Sounds like it.
27:56 Speaker 01 But this whole battle, it made him famous and the men who were in the charge, there were several fatalities and people taken as prisoners. But they were praised for their bravery in carrying out orders when they were so outmatched. Like, they didn't give up. They were like, this is what we were gonna do, so we're gonna do it. Anyway, long story short, he became famous. And when he was in battle, he wore this kind of like knitted wool jacket. And this jacket is considered the inspiration for the modern day cardigan. And it looked like a vest with buttons in the front.
28:37 Speaker 00 Okay.
28:37 Speaker 01 And then later, they added arms to it.
28:40 Speaker 00 So it started as a vest?
28:41 Speaker 01 As a knitted vest with buttons, then they added arms. And it soon became sort of like a staple of the British Army's attire. And it was this garment, it could keep them warm in battle, but it was also easily removed because they used to have like pullover sweaters and stuff.
29:00 Speaker 00 Right.
29:01 Speaker 01 But you don't have time for that. You're in battle.
29:04 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:04 Speaker 01 You know, you gotta get that off quick if you're hot.
29:06 Speaker 00 Right.
29:07 Speaker 01 Also, unlike a traditional military jacket, it didn't restrict their movement. It was like really easy to move their arms.
29:14 Speaker 00 Dwight would relate, by the way.
29:16 Speaker 01 Yes, he would love this.
29:18 Speaker 00 Because he needs circulation to his hands.
29:20 Speaker 01 Yes, knitted military jacket, basically. Transforms into the cardigan.
29:26 Speaker 01 And was made famous by this guy. So then by the late 1800s, it kind of transitioned into everyday fashion. It was mostly worn by gentlemen while hunting or fishing. So this really originated as a men's garment.
29:41 Speaker 00 Mm hmm.
29:42 Speaker 01 But then by the early 20th century, it made its way into women's fashion. This was because knitting became a very popular hobby for women. The cardigan was really an easy thing to knit and customize. It was post-war. People were trying to save money. The sweater really moved into women's fashion as well. And then Coco Chanel loved the cardigan. And she is credited with bringing the cardigan into the forefront of high fashion.
30:11 Speaker 00 Hmm.
30:12 Speaker 01 Do you see how the cardigan has moved from the battlefield? All the way to Coco Chanel?
30:17 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:18 Speaker 01 Come on. Then in the 1950s, the cardigan gained popularity in the United States because people like Grace Kelly and Marilyn Monroe were frequently photographed wearing a cardigan. For women, cardigans were considered stylish and preppy. For men, they were still going strong, but they were sort of like if you were an intellectual or an academic, like Albert Einstein wore a lot of cardigans. So if you were a smarty pants, you might be in a cardigan now.
30:43 Speaker 00 Right.
30:43 Speaker 01 And then, of course, in the 1980s, with grunge fashion, you had Kurt Cobain rocking the slouchy cardigans. So the cardigan is kind of just an amazing item of clothing. It has evolved over time. It has taken so many forms, but in all of its forms, it is functional, practical, it can be styled up or down, and it's a really great way to add warmth to an outfit or to remove if you get too hot. And that brings me to Pam, who wears her cardigan to face a sort of different kind of artillery, the word vomit that is Michael Scott. I feel like that's a special.
31:22 Speaker 00 Pam Pam.
31:23 Speaker 01 I feel like that's a special battle that she went to every day in her cardigan.
31:27 Speaker 00 Yep.
31:28 Speaker 01 I wore so many cardigans on The Office. I still regret that I didn't like capitalize on that and put out a line of cardigans.
31:37 Speaker 00 You still can.
31:39 Speaker 01 I know.
31:40 Speaker 00 Never say never. I could totally see Pam's sweaters brought to you by Jenna Fisher at some department store.
31:47 Speaker 01 I know. How do people do that? How do you get a perfume? How do you get a wine? I don't know. How do you get a cardigan? Like, I don't understand.
31:56 Speaker 00 I don't know. Lady, remember when we very first started the podcast? I'm talking 2019.
32:02 Speaker 01 You're gonna bring up the rosé.
32:03 Speaker 00 I said I wanted an office lady's rosé.
32:06 Speaker 01 You about killed me with that.
32:08 Speaker 00 I started doing research.
32:10 Speaker 01 Lady, I talked to a winery about it.
32:12 Speaker 00 I know.
32:13 Speaker 01 And it just was like, it was so-
32:15 Speaker 00 It's a whole other job. It's like another job.
32:18 Speaker 01 Yes.
32:18 Speaker 00 We already have a job.
32:21 Speaker 01 But like, how do people have the bandwidth for all these like variations of themselves? I don't know.
32:27 Speaker 00 I don't know, but I love that you immediately were like, you're gonna talk about the rosé.
32:31 Speaker 01 I mean, that was like a year of my life. Anyway.
32:34 Speaker 00 I mean, Bryan Cranston, they have their whole mezcal.
32:38 Speaker 01 Mezcal. I know.
32:40 Speaker 00 Where's the office lady's rosé?
32:43 Speaker 01 Where is it? Where's Pam's cardigans?
32:45 Speaker 00 I don't know.
32:46 Speaker 01 Jenna Fisher's cardigans.
32:48 Speaker 00 I don't know.
32:49 Speaker 01 I don't know.
32:50 Speaker 00 Angela Martin's cat beds. Where are-
32:52 Speaker 01 Where are these things? Who does this?
32:56 Speaker 00 How do you do the side hustle? Someone write us.
32:59 Speaker 01 Ah, so anyway, I wore a lot of cardigans on the office and we've discussed before how the costume department made each of us a closet of clothes.
33:09 Speaker 00 Yeah.
33:09 Speaker 01 And mine had pencil skirts, button down shirts and cardigans and they would just mix and match them for various episodes. And it was really important to the reality of our characters that we repeat clothings. So you see things repeat. And it's funny because I found a ton of articles of people breaking down Pam's cardigans according to their colors and how they relate to the episodes. And I just want everyone to know, that was intentional. You are right on. My color palette was mostly pastels, like shades of pink or mint green or light blue. But I did also wear some more muted colors. There were some grays, there were some beiges.
33:51 Speaker 01 And there was purpose to what colors were chosen each week. Like, for example, I'm wearing a beige cardigan in the episode "The Secret", and that is the episode where Jim tells Pam that he 100% does not have a crush on her anymore. And so, we wanted me to be, like, muted.
34:12 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
34:12 Speaker 01 You know, because my heart is being muted.
34:14 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:15 Speaker 01 And then also, there were times when things were scripted, like in the merger, Pam says, "Oh, my mom knitted this for me."
34:23 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
34:24 Speaker 01 There's a lot of chatter online about whether or not that was truly a hand-knit cardigan. I want everyone to know, when we broke down that episode, I revealed that it was not.
34:34 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:35 Speaker 01 It was store-bought, but there were modifications made. We added that big chunky button. We tried to add things to make it look hand-knit. But, I mean, it's like, we got that script one week. Who's, like, fast knitting this sweater for me? I guess they could have found a hand-knit sweater, but we're going for something specific.
34:52 Speaker 00 Also, though, in a time crunch, it's just harder to find those very specific handmade things.
34:59 Speaker 01 And you need duplicates of everything. Every outfit, we had two of, in case you got coffee spilled on it, or who knows what. I don't know, but every outfit had a duplicate outfit.
35:11 Speaker 00 Right.
35:12 Speaker 01 So, to find two identical hand-knit sweaters in five days, that was a challenge.
35:17 Speaker 00 Yeah, exactly.
35:18 Speaker 01 The color I wore the least, that I only wore for holiday episodes, was red. And my favorite cardigan is that vintage holiday cardigan that I wear. It's...
35:30 Speaker 00 It's so great.
35:31 Speaker 01 I'm still bummed I don't have it.
35:32 Speaker 00 We have scoured the internet to see if there's another one out there. They don't make it anymore.
35:37 Speaker 01 Yes. But, everyone, if you pay attention to Pam's arc, whatever she's going through emotionally, and you note her cardigan, there is often a correlation, and that was intentional. And, one final thing, Angela, you know, and we've shared before, that they always tried to buy our clothing at stores that reflected the price point of what our characters could actually afford, from whatever our salary might be at Dunder Mifflin. This was true of all of my sweaters, but there's one very big exception. It's my finale cardigan. That's the gray cardigan with the sequins that I wear and that final talking head. That was by Diane von Furstenberg. It costs around $300. But we wanted Pam to like literally shine.
36:22 Speaker 01 That was her last cardigan.
36:23 Speaker 00 You literally sparkle.
36:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:25 Speaker 00 Like the light hits all those little like stones and you shimmer.
36:29 Speaker 01 Yes, and I did keep that one. I have a blue one, a pink one, and I have the sparkly one.
36:35 Speaker 00 Oh, that's great.
36:37 Speaker 01 Yes. So that's your little history on the cardigan and a little bit more info on Pam's cardigans, everybody.
36:45 Speaker 00 Well, I loved every second of that and I loved how much thought went into our show and how many layers there were to just any episode you watch.
36:53 Speaker 01 Well, it's true. I mean, something as simple as, you know, a work shirt or a cardigan, they were items of clothing, but they were used to tell a story.
37:01 Speaker 00 100%. I mean, Angela Martin definitely had her different outfits for different occasions.
37:07 Speaker 01 Even though they were all shades of gray.
37:09 Speaker 00 And cream.
37:11 Speaker 01 All right, well, why don't we take a break? We'll be back with some around the town and our office question of the week.
37:25 Speaker 01 All right, we are back and our first around the town comes from Sally S. in Evansville, Indiana, who said, "This weekend, our local Girls on the Run Council held the celebratory 5K events for the girls in our program. I was honored to serve as the head for our planning committee and am so proud of our team for putting on the largest and most successful event in our county. Shout out to all of the goater councils across the U.S. who offer this amazing program and put on the celebratory 5Ks. You are making a difference in so many young girls' lives." Oh Sally, this is great. I've shared before, my sister is a Girls on the Run volunteer.
38:07 Speaker 01 She helps plan and participate in the 5K event each year in St. Louis. She loves being a part of this program.
38:15 Speaker 00 What a great organization. Sally, thanks for writing in. And our next one is from William S. in Orange County, California. William says, "In what might be the most wholesome community event ever, Orange County Speed Puzzlers hosted an all-day puzzle hangout for members of the local jigsaw puzzling community. Puzzlers of all skill levels met in Mission Viejo to enjoy each other's company over their shared love of jigsaw puzzles. From group puzzling to individual speed puzzling, to a 500-piece team speed puzzling challenge, to puzzle piece stacking and more, this unique event was essentially a day of summer camp activities for adults."
38:56 Speaker 01 I want to go. I love to puzzle. I love puzzling.
39:01 Speaker 00 I love puzzling. You know, that time of year where like it's just like rainy and whatever and you don't go out as much. And I'm like, ooh, let's bust out a puzzle.
39:10 Speaker 01 Yeah. I love Ravensburger.
39:12 Speaker 00 Yes, they're the best.
39:13 Speaker 01 That's the best puzzle.
39:14 Speaker 00 Yes, agree.
39:15 Speaker 01 They have a new series right now called the Cozy Series. It's all exactly what it sounds like. A cozy ski cabin, a cozy beach cabin, a cozy reading nook. And you puzzle this little cozy world. There's always a cup of warm liquid and there's like a little puppy or something sitting on a rug.
39:35 Speaker 00 Or in a basket. Lady, for your Yankee swap Christmas party this past year, if you remember, I know you loved that I brought the disco ball and the champagne.
39:45 Speaker 01 Very much.
39:46 Speaker 00 But we had to bring five gifts because it was my whole family. And one of our gifts was a big box with three Ravensburger puzzles in it.
39:54 Speaker 01 It was a hot item.
39:55 Speaker 00 I know.
39:55 Speaker 01 It got stolen.
39:57 Speaker 00 Multiple times. Not stolen for real, but in the game.
40:00 Speaker 01 Of course. They're really the best. Talk about a dainty delight. The feeling of a Ravensburger puzzle piece.
40:08 Speaker 00 If you need something to bring to a Yankee swap, let me tell you, that was heavily traded.
40:12 Speaker 01 Can I also tell you that I was at a party and someone shared with me that instead of a book club, they have a puzzle club. And once a month, they get together, they order takeout, and they drink wine, and they just puzzle until the puzzle's done.
40:28 Speaker 00 That sounds like an amazing evening.
40:29 Speaker 01 I know. And you don't have to do anything ahead of time.
40:32 Speaker 00 You don't. I have friends back in my hometown in Texas that get together and they do embroidery, and they call it Stitchin' Bitch.
40:44 Speaker 01 All right, our last around the town is coming from Grace H. in Connecticut, who said, ladies, I have listened to the podcast since the very beginning, when I would put it on as I drove to high school. I am now graduating college. I am completing my Bachelor's of Architecture at Syracuse University.
41:02 Speaker 00 Woo-hoo!
41:02 Speaker 01 Yes. And your podcast has been by my side from late nights, making models, to walking around campus, and everywhere in between. I'm so excited for what's next for me and can't wait to be listening to the podcast wherever I end up. Well, congratulations, Grace, and to everyone graduating this spring. We get a lot of graduation announcements in our snail mail as well.
41:25 Speaker 00 Yep.
41:26 Speaker 01 And we thought we could shout a few of those out.
41:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, let's do it.
41:30 Speaker 01 Jessica G. from Fort Wayne graduated from Indiana University of Diagnostic Medical Sonography.
41:36 Speaker 00 Gianna A. from Leesburg, Florida graduated high school with plans to attend Southeastern University and major in ministerial leadership.
41:44 Speaker 01 Justina from New Jersey is graduating college with a graphic design and fine arts major, and she is currently working in Philly. It's kind of like Justina is living Pam's life if Pam had gotten her degree.
41:58 Speaker 00 And finally, congrats to Carly S. from Enterprise, Alabama, Sarah G. from Joliet Junior College, Katie M. from San Antonio, Texas, and Hannah B. from Arkansas. We got your announcements and we are wishing you all the best.
42:11 Speaker 01 We really love getting these announcements each spring, so please keep them coming. Our P.O. box is on our website. We did want to say one thing, though. We are very sorry, but we cannot accommodate autograph requests. So please do not send us your Funko Pop box, because they get sorted out.
42:29 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:30 Speaker 01 And we don't want you to not have that.
42:32 Speaker 00 But we love hearing from you guys. Please, when you write us your letters, when you send us your graduation announcements, your wedding invitations, all of those are so wonderful. We'll share things like that and around the town.
42:43 Speaker 01 All right, I think it's time for us to move on to our Office Question of the Week. But dare I say, reading people's around the towns is another dainty delight.
42:51 Speaker 00 It is.
42:52 Speaker 01 Thank you.
42:52 Speaker 00 Way to bring it full circle, lady.
42:55 Speaker 01 All right, this is from Louise F. from Scotland, who said, "Hey, Office ladies, I have always wondered, what would happen if someone was the main focus of an episode one week, but when it came to filming, they were so ill that they couldn't come to set? Would the episode be rewritten or filmed a different week? Surely with the amount of episodes you guys filmed, this was bound to happen at some point." Oh, Louise.
43:20 Speaker 00 Oh, Louise. Louise, first of all, hi from Scotland. I love Scotland.
43:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:25 Speaker 00 Okay, I just had to say that.
43:26 Speaker 01 Okay.
43:27 Speaker 00 Because I went there for my honeymoon. You know how much I love Scotland. Okay, now I'm going to focus.
43:32 Speaker 01 Yes. So here's the thing. We had to just go to work anyway, basically is the short answer. There are so many moving parts and so many people involved in pulling an episode together that if it was written and planned and there was a shoot schedule, it was very hard to undo that. And yes, every once in a while, it happened. Like, if someone was truly too sick to come to set, we might rearrange some of the week's schedule to give them an afternoon off or a morning off, or maybe the whole day off. But it was- Very difficult and very rare.
44:09 Speaker 00 It was very rare. They would try to, like Jenna said, move the schedule. So maybe you could go home early. You know, pull up someone else's talking heads, things like that. But mostly we just muscled through it. The only time I remember us doing a big switcheroo was Dwight's speech. Cause Rain was so, so sick.
44:31 Speaker 01 And he was the focus of that.
44:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, and we had, we had to film at that hotel. And that was one time I remember I got a call from our A D. And they were like, okay, the hotel has been canceled. We're moving things around. Rain's going to the doctor. He's too sick.
44:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:46 Speaker 00 But really, I mean, you could probably count on one hand, the number of times that happened.
44:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, there were sometimes like life events, like a death in the family. And I remember we made space for people, obviously, to go grieve and be with their families. But if someone was sick, you had to kind of just power through.
45:10 Speaker 00 I mean, I had false labor and went to work the next day. I was in the hospital and they called, remember Kinsmore? And I was like, Angela, are we having this baby tonight? Cause it was the next day where Andy proposes and the Ferris wheel and all that. And I was like, I'll let you know.
45:25 Speaker 01 I totally remember that. And listen, this is not exclusive to The Office.
45:29 Speaker 00 No, no, no.
45:30 Speaker 01 This is the entertainment industry. When I did the movie Walk Hard, John C. Riley got really sick. I think he had like a strep throat or something and we had to do like a whole make out scene anyway. And then I got sick and I got so sick that I lost my voice. I had laryngitis. I couldn't speak. And I was really sick and they were like, you still have to come to work. I'm like, how? How? I can't speak. They're like, we're gonna shoot some stuff where you're not talking today. I mean, it's like you're gonna just show up.
46:07 Speaker 00 It is pretty bonkers.
46:09 Speaker 01 It is.
46:10 Speaker 00 And we're kind of laughing because I think in hindsight, sometimes you look back at those moments, you're like, what? But it does involve so many moving parts and so many people that they are just constantly trying to make sure they make their day and get something shot because they have a limited time and a limited budget.
46:26 Speaker 01 Yes, and there is like this element of the show must go on. And that's been a part of, you know, actors.
46:34 Speaker 00 Yes.
46:35 Speaker 01 For all time, the show must go on. And there is that spirit when you're making a movie or you're making a TV show. And I think I famously told the story of how incredibly sick I was one week at the office and I took a bunch of Sudafed.
46:52 Speaker 00 Yes.
46:52 Speaker 01 So I could make it through.
46:54 Speaker 00 And didn't Greg say it was one of your best performances? Was he like, reached out to your agent or something?
46:59 Speaker 01 I called my manager and was like, Jenna was incredible today. Incredible.
47:04 Speaker 00 You're like, I was super Sudafed it up.
47:07 Speaker 01 Exactly. I'm like, oh, I don't know what that says. But anyway, thank you for that question. Yeah, we just.
47:14 Speaker 00 We just powered through.
47:16 Speaker 01 We did.
47:17 Speaker 00 Well, everyone, this was such a fun episode. Thank you so much for listening. I want to give a special thank you to Holiday Reinhorn for sharing her story about the origin of Dwight's button down shirt. Amazing. And of course, you guys, I'll put links in our stories where you can check out the amazing organization that Rain and Holly have put so much of their heart and time into Lidda Haiti. And thank you to, oh my goodness, the amazing Christie D. from Wheeling, West Virginia, who sent in the Diaries of the Mustard shirt. What a delight. Talk about a dainty delight was reading that.
47:51 Speaker 01 Thank you for inspiring this episode, Christie. We'll see you guys all next week.
47:56 Speaker 00 See you then.
47:59 Speaker 01 Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.
48:01 Speaker 00 Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey. It is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.
48:07 Speaker 01 Our senior producer is Matt Beagle and our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer.
48:11 Speaker 00 Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.
48:14 Speaker 01 Office Ladies was
48:15 Speaker 00 Mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.
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