Best of Office Ladies Deep Dives

This week on Office Ladies 6.0, break out your snorkel and flippers, because we're taking you on a deep dive. On this special episode, Jenna and Angela celebrate some of their all-time favorite tangents with a look back at the best Office Ladies deep dives! The ladies dive even deeper with brand-new research on everything you ever wanted to know about dueling, the scandalous history behind the color green, and even more fascinating WWII candy lore. Plus, Jenna rounds out the episode by creating her own secret message, inspired by Dwight's antics. So grab a nice beverage, find a cozy chair and get ready to geek out...enjoy! Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question for Around the Town, Chit Chat, and Second Drink favorite moment:https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion Follow Us on Instagram:OfficeLadiesPod https://www.instagram.com/officeladiespod/ Follow Us on YouTube https://youtube.com/@officeladiespod?si=D0oKJwFJuK9txzFM Follow Us on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@officeladiespod?_t=ZT-8y1gqTrJyOs&_r=1

• 0:04Speaker 00

  I'm Jenna Fisher.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  And I'm Angela Kinsey.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  We were on The Office together.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  And we're best friends.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you. Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of The Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Ladies 6.0.

• 0:26Speaker 00

  Hi, everybody.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Happy Wednesday.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Happy Wednesday. We have all had a very eventful morning in our own ways today.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  We just had a clunky morning, didn't we? I mean, Sam has the craziest story.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, Sam, I think you win.

• 0:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Someone stole my laundry.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  What the heck?

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Someone stole my clean, dry laundry out of the machine and my laundry basket, out of the laundry-

• 0:51Speaker 01

  And your basket. I didn't know that part.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  That's how I know it's on purpose. It's someone that is intentionally stealing it.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  This is a premeditated laundry thievery.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  I needed those clothes, too.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  This is within your building. So this, right.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  So what is the plan here? And is this a case for mom detectives? And are there any cameras?

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing. I need your help. What type of note do I put up? Because I need it to be, I need it to be aggressive, but I also need it to be passive.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  I will, I will help you.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Well, Jenna can do the aggressive and I'll do the snark.

• 1:21Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  And we'll compose this note.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  You want to start it off, Jenna?

• 1:27Speaker 01

  My first thought is that you come in strong and you open with something like, "To the laundry thief."

• 1:33Speaker 00

  Hmm, okay.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  But now I'm wondering about that. Is that the right move?

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Where does that end, though? Like, "Meet me outside at..."

• 1:41Speaker 01

  It's sort of like, "I would really like my laundry back."

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  "No questions asked. Please put it back in the laundry room along with my laundry basket."

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  I might start it also something like this. "On Thursday, September 3rd, at whatever time it was, my entire clean laundry and my laundry basket were stolen or taken out of this room."

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Went missing.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Went missing. "I would very much like my clothes back and the laundry basket. No questions asked. Please leave them here. If not, I will start asking around."

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I will notice if you're wearing my clothes.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Can I post a picture of you, too? If not, I will get these two involved.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Yes. These two mom detectives.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  I mean, that might be a bad idea because we do not have a great reputation for solving cases.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  This is true, Sam. We will have snacks. We'll never find your clothes.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  True, true, true.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Ooh, could we stake out his laundry room with some snacks?

• 2:45Speaker 02

  This is, this is becoming a slumber party so fast. Like, if we're gonna do that, we might as well watch Lord of the Rings. All three of Lord of the Rings.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  No, here's what we do.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Get pizzas, yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Yes. Here's what we do is we get some nice, clean laundry and a nice new basket, and we just leave it there.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  And set a trap?

• 3:02Speaker 00

  And set a trap. And then we hide out in the bushes, as we do.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  And we wait. Stakeout style.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Great.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  I'm for this.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  All right.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  All right. It is gonna be weird, though, Sam. Like, I feel like your clothing is very uniquely you.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  I know, yeah. Someone got a bunch of sleeveless misfit shirts that they're not gonna wear.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  Damn it.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  It's very strange.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  I mean, mine is lame in comparison. I just left the house kind of like in a rush and distracted, and I didn't have my normal bag. You know how you pack your normal bag? It was upstairs and I was rushing out. I just grabbed a different bag, threw all my stuff in it. And then I got in the car and I drove away. And I was like, "Wait, I don't have my laptop. I don't have any of my things." And I had to drive back home. I didn't take it out the door with me. I don't know. And then Jenna, you had a total snafu.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I spilled an entire cup of coffee all over my car. And when I texted the thread, Matt comes in hot and he's like, "Is this because you drink coffee out of a lidless ceramic mug?"

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  I was just connecting the dots.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  And I was like, "No, this one actually had a cover."

• 4:12Speaker 00

  Meanwhile, Matt has been sick, but you're doing a little better. So we've had a wonky start to this week.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  But we're gonna have a great episode. Today's episode is a celebration of a few of the deep dives that we have taken on Office Ladies over the years. We get a lot of mail about our deep dives and we want to share a couple. The first one is from Dawn T. in British Columbia, who said, "I love your podcast. I have listened to every episode and I am always so excited when new ones are released. Thank you for coming along with me on countless walks, drives, flights, et cetera. I have learned so much about my favorite show and also about so many other random fascinating things through all your deep dives and tangents. I could listen to you both all day."

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Dawn, I love that. Well, we also got this from Liz P. in Nashville, Tennessee. Liz says, "Hey, Office Ladies, a longtime listener, first time emailer. I'd just like to say that I absolutely love you, ladies. I'm nearing the end of my third re-listen." Oh, my goodness.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  Wow. And Liz goes on to say, "From your deep dives to your soapboxes and everything in between, you ladies have taught me so much. I love re-watching episodes with my boyfriend and telling him all the backstory that he didn't ask for." And then in parentheses, Liz says, "He loves to hear it, though, because he's the Josh slash Lee to my Angela slash Jenna. Thank you so much for being a strong, empowering, safe place for me and so many others. Love you amazing ladies so much."

• 5:43Speaker 01

  So we thought, why not revisit some of our favorite deep dives? This is for all of y'all who love these.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  And Angela, I know we got a letter from one listener who's wanted us to do this episode for a while now.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  Yes. Joshua S. from Los Angeles, California, wrote in and said, "Hey, ladies, I am married to one of you, and I've been saying for a really long time, will you please do the best of deep dives? I've literally said this for two years. And then some other people write in and you decide to do it. Sincerely, longtime listener, Joshua S."

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. I know, Angela. When we decided to do this, you said, "I told Josh we were gonna do this." And he was like, "Wait, what? What?"

• 6:34Speaker 00

  Because he has been saying this. And we'd been like, "Oh, no. What? No, no one." And then we decided to do it. And he was like, "I am literally like shouting, I love the deep dives."

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Oh, it's very sweet. Well, when we decided to do this episode, it kind of got me wondering, what was our first deep dive?

• 6:53Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  My memory is that Angela's Fear Factor was our first deep dive. Like, we had done deep dives on office-related things, but Angela's Fear Factor tangent was our first off-topic deep dive.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  I don't know if I clocked the first time. It seems like something that's always been there.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Joshua Snyder co-signed that.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Oh, he got it.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  He said, "It was your fear factor." And he said, "I'll never forget it because it was really gross."

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's from our breakdown of the carpet, which is from season two. It's episode 20 of Office Ladies. I think we should hear it. But yes, warning, it is a little mature for anyone who might be listening with kiddos.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  Yes. This might get the E for explicit. Not because of me, because of the subject matter.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let's hear it.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  I did a deep dive on Fear Factor. Why, Jenna? Why did I do a deep dive?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  I don't know. This has started to happen to us, where something's mentioned in an episode and then we spend hours watching clips or researching things on websites.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. It was like you watching all the videos of the Hooters birthdays.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  I watched these Fear Factor clips. You guys, it was like, "Okay, eat this dried horse rectum." I'm not kidding.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  I'm not kidding. Or intestine or something. And then I looked up why it got canceled.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  It's so gross.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 8:21Speaker 00

  I don't even think we can see it here.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 8:24Speaker 00

  They had-

• 8:24Speaker 01

  It got canceled because of an incident?

• 8:26Speaker 00

  Yes, and they didn't air it, but it's why it got canceled. And Joe Rogan has talked about it. It's so gross.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  What?

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Okay, you had two choices. This episode is called the hee-haw episode. You could drink donkey pee or donkey semen. That is horrible, Jenna.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  What?

• 8:44Speaker 00

  That is horrible.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Did they do it?

• 8:47Speaker 00

  They did it.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Oh!

• 8:49Speaker 00

  They did it. And one guy said, as he started drinking, he vomited back in his own cup.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  It's horrible.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  It's horrible. This was, and how, how did this get? I mean, who was like, "Yeah, that's a great idea." That's, also, how did they get the donkey jizz?

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, Angela.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  I'm sorry. It's my first thought. Whose job was that?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  No.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  No.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 9:18Speaker 00

  No. Not happening.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Um, next up in the episode, wow.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Did everyone do it? Or just, like, what happens if you don't do it? You're out?

• 9:30Speaker 00

  I don't know. Like, I know there, they, you know, there's the contest, and if you do it, ultimately, whatever all the challenges are, I don't know how people get picked, but whoever does the challenge, if they don't do it, they're out. It was a crazy show. Crazy. All right. I am looking in the booth where Sam and Cody are sitting and everyone-

• 9:50Speaker 01

  They seem sad.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  I've ruined their day. You guys, I just, well, like, this was such a big deal for Michael to like, be like, "This is my Fear Factor audition tape." I was like, "Oh, yeah. What was that show again?" I just started looking it up. That was like one of the first things that came up. Anyway, you're welcome. Where are we?

• 10:10Speaker 02

  I haven't heard that in two or three years and I'm just as sad. Bummer me out just as much.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  I'm so sorry.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Two or three years, Sam, that's probably like, what, six years ago?

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wow.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, glad you all got to relive it here today.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  And that is what started our deep diving.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Our tangential deep dives. Yes. And then Jenna, you really locked in. You're like, wait, we can do this? You can just like see something in an Office episode and then be curious and share about it? And you really leaned in. You started doing a lot of deep dives. They're fantastic. But the thing that I thought was so cute is you were so excited at the beginning. You were like, we need a sting. We need a deep dive sting. And your son, who was so little at the time, wanted to do a sting for us. And you recorded it at home and we used to play it. Do you remember?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yes. And you mentioned you wanted to play it today and I have not heard it in so long. I can't wait.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  It's so precious. Can we hear it?

• 11:14Speaker 03

  You gotta deep, you gotta dive. You put 'em together, get a deep dive.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, his little voice.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  I know.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  His little voice. I mean, he's a freshman in high school now.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  He's a teenager. I know.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Totally different voice now. Oh, precious.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Precious. But anyway, you got super into deep dives and now let's revisit some of them, lady, yours and mine.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yes, we're gonna take a break and when we come back, we will be playing some of our favorite deep dives, but also giving you some new info we uncovered.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  That was very interesting. I'm excited to share and I can't wait to hear yours.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Same.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  All right, we are back and lady, should I go first?

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  I really wanted to revisit my deep dive on dueling. It was one of my fast facts for when we broke down the episode, The Duel.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Right? Season five, episode 12 of The Office. It was episode 88 of Office, ladies. And as you all know, in The Duel, Dwight and Andy duel over Angela.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  So here we go. Dueling deep dive.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  All right, fast fact number three, the history of dueling.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  What?

• 12:41Speaker 01

  What? First of all, I would just like to say, I am not a historian. I'm just a lady with Google.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  You're just a delightful lady that loves to Google.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  That's right. But I did read about four to five, what seemed like reputable websites on the subject of dueling.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  And here is what I have pulled together.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Dueling seems to have originated in medieval Europe. Nobles would defend their honor in man to man battles.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  Well, listen, if you watch Outlander, you know that's true.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  I don't, but I-

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Come on, Sassanac, come on.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Well, in 1777, a group of Irishmen codified the dueling practices. They wrote a document of rules and listen to what they called it. They called it Code Duelo. Code Duelo.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  I'm pretty sure that's a type of dessert you can get.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  I'll have the Code Duelo, thanks.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  I love the lemon flavor.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  It consisted of 26 very specific rules outlining all aspects of the duel, including the time of day during which challenges could be received, the number of shots or wounds required in order to win.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  I feel like Dwight would have known these 26 rules of dueling because he had the 40 rules all shrewd boys have to learn before they're five. He loves rules. I feel like Dwight knows about these dueling rules.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  He must.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Right? He suggested the duel.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sure he knew. I'm sure that some of these rules have made their way into the shrewd life.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Into the shrewd 40 rules?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes. The first recorded duel in America took place in 1621 in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  And then America created their own set of dueling rules.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  They were written by South Carolina Governor John Wilson in 1838. So in a typical American duel, each party has to act through a second. I know this from the musical Hamilton, everyone.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, like you have your partner that goes with you.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Yes, you have a second. That's right.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't you get to bring like a medic, like a doctor? Oh, that's an Outlander. Never mind.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  That wasn't-

• 15:10Speaker 00

  Jamie, Jamie would bring Sassanac with him. Okay, never mind, go.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  I don't know about that.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  I only read four to five websites.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  If we have a historian, perhaps they would know.

• 15:22Speaker 00

  You should watch Outlander, but don't watch it with your children around.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Okay. So listen, if a man felt like his honor had been insulted, he would tell his second to challenge the offender to a duel. You do not do it yourself. You send your second. The main duty of the second is to try to create a reconciliation, to avoid violence.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Oh, so that person's like the mediator.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they're literally doing what all therapists tell us not to do, which is to triangulate communication in order to, you know, solve conflicts, but whatever, this is dueling.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  I'm the second in my family. I'm often the person sent in to smooth over the other stuff.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people have that position in their family. I get it. But if the second goes and said, hey, my guy is offended by you and wants to duel, and the person says, great, we're dueling, the recipient of the duel challenge gets to pick the weapons and the time and the place of the duel. So for example, James Shields, an Illinois Attorney General, challenged future President Abraham Lincoln to a duel.

• 16:34Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Lincoln accepted the duel and he chose the broadsword as their weapon. James Shields was like, what the F? That's insane. Never mind. Forget it. And he called off the duel. So like, bold move by Lincoln. Lincoln was like, I'll show up and I'm bringing my sword to the duel. Do you want it?

• 16:59Speaker 00

  Lincoln was like, I'm tall and I'm a swordsman.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. James Shields was like, never mind. You know what? I'm good.

• 17:07Speaker 00

  You know what? I thought about it and I'm okay.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Here's one. This one really got me. I guess Andrew Jackson was very famous for dueling.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Lots of duels, this guy. Experts placed his number of duels, maybe as many as 100. 100.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  Was Andrew just pissing everyone off? He was just pissing everyone off. Everyone wanted to fight him.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  His most famous duel was with Charles Dickinson, not to be confused with Charles Dickens, the writer.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  Oh, I was gonna say, did you see my look on my face? I was like, wait, what?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, Charles Dickinson, he was a horse breeder and I guess these two guys hated each other. Dickinson accused Jackson of cheating on a horse bet and he challenged Jackson to a duel. Jackson was like, I'll be there. The weapon is pistols. But here's the thing, Dickinson was like known to be one of the best shots in the nation. So I don't know why Andrew Jackson picked pistols, but he did. I think maybe it was just, I don't know, some swagger or something, right? So they show up, they duel.

• 18:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Dickinson got off the first shot. It hit Andrew Jackson in the chest. He's bleeding from the chest. Okay?

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  All accounts are that he like held one hand to the wound, lifted his pistol, fired at Dickinson. His pistol misfired. It didn't shoot.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  So Andrew Jackson recocked his pistol, fired again and killed Dickinson. This was very controversial, Angela. In the rules of dueling, you only get to fire once.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  That's what I was gonna say. Aren't you one and done? And I know nothing about dueling, but I was pretty sure that's the case. Thank you, Hamilton.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know. Andrew Jackson lived, he got away with it and was later elected President of the United States.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  I have a question.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 19:00Speaker 00

  If you're Charles Dickinson.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  You see Andrew Jackson pointing his gun at you.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Fire. Do you run a zigzag? Can you step out of the way or do you just have to stand there? Fingers crossed it doesn't hit you. Is there no movement allowed? Can I not jump around?

• 19:17Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  Cause I'm not gonna stand in one place. If you're pointing a pistol at me, I'm gonna get moving.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you're not allowed, Ange.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  The last duel of record in the United States was in 1859.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Here's who it involved.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  Was it more white men shooting at each other?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  It sure was, lady. Not only that, it was a United States Senator and a retired Chief Justice of the California Supreme Court.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Way to go, guys. No one died in this duel because, listen to this madness, one guy's gun jammed.

• 19:55Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  And then the other guy fired his gun, but it hit the other guy in his gold pocket watch and they called a truce.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  That was the last duel in America.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  All right. Now, if Andrew Jackson was there, he would have unjammed his gun and shot at you again.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. I would like to say, I don't know who Andrew Jackson's second was, but I think they did a real shitty job.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  What about Dickinson's second? Dickinson's second tried to make a case that, you know, Andrew Jackson, I think should be tried for murder, but no one wanted to hear about it.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  That was very interesting. I liked all your duel trivia.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Thank you. I enjoyed researching my duel trivia.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  I mean, there is just a part of me that would do a history podcast with you, but we get everything slightly wrong.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Well, we're already doing that. I'm sure there are at least 12 things I did wrong in this fast fact number three. You know what? It's like our version of drunk history, but we're not drunk.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  We're just well-meaning ladies who Google and tell you history.

• 21:06Speaker 00

  Well, that was so interesting. I still find it fascinating, but you said you found even more stuff.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Well, we had questions.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  I didn't want to leave us hanging, lady.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  We did.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  For example, we wondered if you bring a medic to a duel.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  And?

• 21:21Speaker 01

  And you do. It actually goes back to the code duello. It was the job of the second to arrange the medic. And I mean, can we talk about that, though? What a thankless job it is to be a second, and a very big job. Like, first you had to try and mediate. You had to pick the time and location of the duel. You had to find a doctor, as if you don't have anything else going on in your life. And could you imagine? Imagine you are Andrew Jackson's best friend. 100 duels? What? So much drama.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  He was so busy.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  So busy.

• 21:59Speaker 00

  Being the second.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  How did Andrew Jackson have time for 100 duels?

• 22:04Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Lady, could you imagine if you were my second?

• 22:09Speaker 00

  No.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  And I was like, lady, I have another duel.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  I'd be like, you need to work on some anger management, because I don't have time for all these duels. It's like having a horrible bridezilla, and you're the maid of honor. And she's like, sorry, I'm getting married eight times.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 00

  Deal with it.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  And changing my mind all the time. Lots of drama.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Lots of drama.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  All right. Well, anyway, Angela, you also wondered, this made me laugh out loud. Do you have to stand in one place and wait for the other person to fire? Or can you move around and quote zigzag?

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Well, I couldn't find a firm rule about it, but it was considered proper dueling etiquette to stand in the designated firing spot and not zigzag. But it did not say how you have to stand. And this is why a lot of people in pistol duels, they stand sideways.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Because then you're a smaller target.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  But you're supposed to stand there. And everyone, I found out that dueling was not just for men.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  Women duelled?

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Women duelled. It was rare. I'm going to share about two women duels that I found.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  This one is amazing.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  In 1892, there was a duel between Princess Pauline Metternich and Countess Kleigoldmann Seg.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  I'm sure I'm pronouncing that wrong, but it is the duel between the princess and the countess.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  Where? Where did this happen?

• 23:47Speaker 01

  In Austria.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  And the reason that this duel happened was because the two women had a disagreement over floral arrangements.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  Holy crap.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  Wow. This would have been their version of reality TV. They'd be like, you guys.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  It's going down over florals.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  They were asked to create a floral arrangement for the Viennese International Exhibition of Music and Theater. But here's the thing. Princess Pauline was like the flower lady. She was known for it. Like, this was her thing, was flowers. Everyone knew it.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  So she was going to have a kick-ass, huge, amazing flower arrangement?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Until the countess had a bunch of other ideas.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Princess Pauline was like so into flowers. She founded something called the Flower Parade that went down the main street of the Prater in Vienna. It started in 1886, and it continues to this day.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  I would love this. Why don't I know about this?

• 24:56Speaker 01

  I don't know. We should go.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Oh, can we?

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  Oh, we have so many places we have to go to.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Go on.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  So this lady, she was the flower person. They get in a disagreement. They decide to duel. The weapons.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  Wait, I'm sorry. Timeout.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  What?

• 25:14Speaker 00

  There's no talking it out about the flower arrangements. We go straight to duel?

• 25:18Speaker 01

  It got so heated, lady.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  It got so heated. These women could not figure it out. So they agreed to duel. Their weapon was swords.

• 25:29Speaker 00

  Swords?

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Swords. And they decided the winner would be determined by first blood. So not to the death. This was a thing with duels, with if you duelled with swords, it was just to first blood.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  So she could, so one of them could nick the other?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  And be like, okay, fine, you win.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yes. I have another element of this duel to share. They did it topless.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  What?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Topless with swords.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  This is reality TV for 1829.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  This is because the duel was overseen by a baroness who had a degree in medicine. And she told the women that they should duel topless because she had seen how many times someone had gotten just like a fragment of dirty fabric in their skin, and it would get infected, and it could kill you.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  This duel lasted three rounds.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Three rounds?

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  How long are the rounds? Who's counting that down? The seconds?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I guess so. Princess Pauline won.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  And lady, I saved the best for last. She was 50 f***ing six years old.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, girl.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  She knew her flowers. She let herself be sloppy titty.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  She won.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  And she f***ing won the duel.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  And her flower parade continues.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  That's an amazing story. That's an amazing story, lady. I loved it.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  I have a second one.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  Can it top the topless flower arrangement lady's dueling? There's no way.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Probably not. Probably not. But this was in 1792 in London. Lady Almeria Braddock challenged Mrs. Elphinstone?

• 27:23Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  To a duel in Hyde Park with pistols and swords.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Because Mrs. Elphinstone insulted Lady Braddock's age.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Braddock said that she was 30 years old.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  So is she lying?

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Elphinstone said more like 60.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Oh, shit. Get your pistols, get your swords.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  So there was a duel.

• 27:55Speaker 00

  She, she did tack on 30 years.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  She did.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  So first they shot pistols, and they both missed.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  And Braddock was like, I'm not satisfied. So they picked up swords. She drew first blood, and Elphinstone had to write a letter of apology.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Incidentally, just tack it on the end. I also found out about a duel between a Frenchwoman and an Americanwoman who got into an argument about who had better doctors, France or America? The things people duel about.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  People get so pissed off.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Relax, everybody.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Listen, if you want to spend hours and hours and hours of your life researching dueling, the internet does not disappoint.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  Does not disappoint. It sounds like a fun time.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  It actually really, really was.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Well, lady, I loved every second of that. I also had a really good time on the internets.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  I did.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  What did it bring you?

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Well, I thought it might be fun to dig a little deeper into one of my deep dives on the color green. Now, to refresh your memory, it was the episode Take Your Daughter to Work Day in season two, episode 18, that got me started on this. Dwight is playing the song "Green Sleeves" on his little recorder, you know, for the kids who came in to work that day. They're all in the conference room. And he mentions "Green Sleeves" was the song, and I had to look it up. And that led me to this journey about the color green. Let's hear it.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  This is big. This is one of my biggest cards of this episode.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 29:31Speaker 00

  Might not be saying much. This is a big card for me. He finishes playing the song, and he goes, that was "Green Sleeves." It's an English ballad written about the beheading of Anne Boleyn. Okay, so you know I did a term paper on Anne Boleyn.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  In college?

• 29:46Speaker 00

  I love Anne Boleyn. No, in high school.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  Yes, in high school, senior term paper. But I looked up "Green Sleeves." Okay. This was fascinating to me. Sorry, about to geek out on you guys a little bit. There is a persistent belief that "Green Sleeves" was composed by Henry VIII for his lover Anne Boleyn. Here's what really threw me for a loop. Ready?

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  There's this other interpretation of the lyrics. Ready?

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  Lady Greensleeves was a promiscuous young woman, even perhaps a prostitute.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  At the time, the word green had sexual connotations, most notably in the phrase, "a green gown." A reference to the grass stains on a woman's dress from engaging in sexual intercourse in a field somewhere.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Green is kind of horish.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Green is kind of horish. This justifies that whole line for Angela Martin. I freaked out. I was in my, that's what she said. And I'm like, green is horish. I'm sure my neighbors were like, what is happening? Lady, green was like a dirty color.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Great bind, Angela.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  That is some deep diving historian-type work on the internets to prove a reference line from The Office.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  Well done.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Thank you. I give you this.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  So, yes, green is horish.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  That was such an amazing find.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Well, I did a little more Googling. First of all, I didn't really share much about the actual song, "Green Sleeves," and it is a broadside ballad. Its actual name is "Anew," but "new" is spelled N-E-W-E.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  N-E-W-E, like-

• 31:35Speaker 00

  It's old, like, old English.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Old-timey speaking.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  "Anew, northern ditty of ye lady green sleeves."

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:44Speaker 00

  Is the actual name. It was registered by Richard Jones at the London Stationery's Company in September of 1580.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  This is an old song.

• 31:53Speaker 00

  Old song. I've listened to many versions of it now, lady. And I didn't share any of the lyrics when we first talked about this, and I wanted to share just the first stanza. So you really know what was going through maybe Henry VIII's mind when he wrote this song, although that has been disputed that he wrote it, but still, here we go. "Alas, my love, you do me wrong to cast me off discourteously, for I have loved you well and long, delighting in your company. Green sleeves was all my joy, green sleeves was my delight, green sleeves was my heart of gold, and who but my lady, green sleeves?

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Your vows you've broken like my heart? Oh, why did you so enrapture me? Now I remain in a world apart, but my heart remains in captivity."

• 32:43Speaker 01

  You know, something that's landing on me now, and again, I'm sorry to be coming back to time management, but like, when did he have the time to write this whole thing? This is what you did before screens. You could have duels and you could write long songs and poems and things.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  I mean, that was just one stanza.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  I know. That's what I mean. It goes on and on.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  It does. So, yes, green sleeves broke his heart, and it did send me on a journey of the color green throughout history. It is fascinating. It could be a whole entire episode, okay? I just want to share a few tidbits, though, about the color green, all right?

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Is it weird that green is my favorite color, that I've painted all of my offices green?

• 33:34Speaker 00

  My office is sage green, as you know. We both love green. Our studio we're sitting in, the walls are green.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  It's supposed to be the color of creativity.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Well, it has several themes throughout history. Prosperity, it's often, most commonly associated with fertility, you know, the seasons of agriculture, rebirth, growth, right? And then somehow it found its way in literature and art to also have lust, betrayal, jealousy. Let's go back in time a little bit, lady.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  Let's start with the fact that green has been used in art since the time of ancient Egyptians. They used green earth and malachite to make the color green. For example, the Egyptian god of fertility, death, and afterlife, Osiris, was often depicted with green skin.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Then green pops up in the Ming Dynasty. Laws required male relatives of workers connected to prostitutes to wear green headwear or garments so they could be easily identified by the public.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  A link to prostitution again.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Yes. In Chinese history, wearing a green hat signified that a man's wife had been unfaithful.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. Then, in artistic drawings throughout history, the color of the snake in the Garden of Eden is often green and sometimes had a woman's face.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  That pisses me off.

• 35:04Speaker 00

  I know. Then, here we go. I thought this was super interesting. In the Elizabethan era, green was a common color for wedding gowns for brides in the lower or middle class.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  Interesting. Green then had a resurgence in art during the Impressionist movement due to advancement in green pigments and paints, became a very bold fashion color in the 1800s for gloves and dresses. But, oh my goodness, this brought me to this crazy story about how the color green was starting to be made for mass production, because I guess, like, in the Elizabethan era, they used plant dye, right? But now, in 1775, this Swedish German chemist, Carl Wilhelm Schill, if I'm saying that correctly, this was wild to me, he used copper and arsenic to make his color green, making it highly

• 36:00Speaker 00

  toxic. But people didn't know this, and it was cheap and easy to produce, and it vividly mimicked the natural color of green and nature. They used his color in house paints, Victorian wallpaper, cotton dresses, artificial flowers, children's toys, even to color certain foods and sweets. But guess what?

• 36:22Speaker 01

  But it had arsenic in it?

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Factory workers, tailors, and residents in rooms with green wallpaper suffered from chronic arsenic poisoning. People that dusted the fake flowers with the green paint and dust experienced skin sores, blisters, respiratory failure, in severe cases, death from inhaling dust and flaking wallpaper particles. So, it did fall out of favor in the late 19th century because it became clear it was extremely toxic. And historians think that Napoleon Bonaparte died because of Schill's green, because they used this toxic pigment in his bedroom wallpaper.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Like, how did news of this spread? Like, news of this spreads, and then can you imagine, you get invited over to someone's house for dinner, and they're, oh my gosh, they have green walls, and you're like, babe, we gotta go. I am not going in there. And you're like, don't be rude. It's like, but I read in the paper about the green. You can't go in any room that's green.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it was everywhere. This is also interesting to me, too, though, about the fact that it was cheap to make, right? This led me to this. You know the UK Parliament, right? It's split-

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Is it green?

• 37:37Speaker 00

  Hold up. It's split into two chambers, right? The publicly elected House of Commons, sometimes called the Lower House, and the appointed House of Lords, the Upper House. The House of Commons has green seats.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 37:53Speaker 00

  And the House of Lords has red seats, primarily due to centuries-old traditions, right? The House of Lords, they were the, quote, "red." Red was associated to royalty at the time. And then, House of Commons were, quote, "commoners," green, right? And green was historically linked to public meeting places and the common people.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  Right? To this day, their seats are still green and red.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  But like, the seats are-

• 38:20Speaker 00

  They're not the toxic seats. But I just find it very interesting. So, I have to end this with one last thing, which is, did William Shakespeare talk about the color green? And there are two famous moments.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  In "Antony and Cleopatra," which was performed in 1607 for the first time, Cleopatra has this famous line that lady I now want to use.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Okay. She is reminiscing about her youth, about her inexperienced past and her early romance with Julius Caesar. And she says, "My salad days, when I was green and judgment, cold and blood." This has gone on to become kind of a phrase to talk about your salad days as your early days. Isn't that kind of fun? Don't you kind of want to use that, just randomly at, like, back-to-school night or something, or cocktail parties?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Oh, those were my salad days.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  Those were my salad days. And then, also, Shakespeare talked about the green-eyed monster in Othello.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Sure, sure.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  "Oh, beware, my lord, of jealousy. It is the green-eyed monster, which doth mock the meat it feeds on." I mean, I could go on and on. I ended up looking up green and, like, the Celtic Age and the green man, and I read, like, a whole thing on Sir Gawain and the green knight. I mean, it's just fascinating, this color, how it's just woven throughout history.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Well, my question to you is, does Angela know all of this when she says green is horish?

• 39:57Speaker 00

  It's very interesting because there are so many positive references to the color green, you know? You could choose to see rebirth and fertility and nature, or you could choose to see, like, common and lower class and lustfulness and all that. And that might be the filter that Angela Martin was using. I think she knew some of it. I do.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  I think she did, too.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  All right. Well, I loved that. Everyone, we're going to take a break, and we're going to be back with even more deep dives.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  Okay, we are back. And now we have two fun things to share. They're both from sort of our World War II deep dives.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  I'll start. This was one of my favorite surprises when I was researching things for the podcast. I talk about it in Lecture Circuit, Part One, which is Season Five, Episode 16. I did a deep dive on the Mounds Bar because it all started with that scene at the Utica Branch where Pam throws Mounds Bars in the conference room as part of the presentations that she and Michael were doing. And that led me to look up the origin of the Mounds Bar. It was fascinating.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  I'm so glad you did.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  Let's hear it.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Well, I couldn't resist, Jenna. When I heard mini Mounds Bars, I had to look up the origin of the mini Mounds Bar.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm fascinated. I love a Mounds Bar. I ate many of the Mounds Bars that day, I should say.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  Are you Mounds Bar or Almond Joy?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Don't throw any nuts in my dark chocolate and coconut treat.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Can we play the jingle, please, that will live in your brain forever?

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never feel like a nut.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  You never feel like a nut?

• 42:06Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  I am also a mini Mounds Bar person. I love the dark chocolate. I love it. But let's start our story, guys. How did we get the mini Mounds Bar? Our story starts with Peter Paul Halagian. He was a candy manufacturer in New Haven, Connecticut in the early 20th century. He was born in Armenia, and he immigrated to the US in 1890 and opened a candy shop. He would sell candy bars to the US Army, and they would put them in the soldiers' monthly rations during World War I. And then they loved the candy bar so much, when they came home, they wanted more. So after the success of that, he teamed with five other Armenian investors to form the Peter Paul Candy Manufacturing

• 42:51Speaker 00

  Company. They then made a very smart purchase. They purchased a candy line from candy maker Vincent Natito, who created the original Mounds Bar. He was selling it for five cents.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Oh, full size. Five cents?

• 43:06Speaker 00

  They're not very big.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  But a full-size bar is two.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  He sold one.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  It was always a mini.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  It was always a mini.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  And then Peter Paul actually just started selling it in a pack of two for 10 cents.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  I wish you could see Angela's hands right now. I'm showing Mounds Bars.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Here, you want to take my pictures?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  I wanted to show Jenna what it would look like. Too many Mounds Bars.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  There it is.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, Jenna, during World War II, the Peter Paul Candy Manufacturing Company was faced with a severe shortage of sugar and coconut, right?

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  World War II, they had normally been shipped from the Philippines. Then the war broke out. So the company began sourcing coconut from the Caribbean, using its own fleet of small vessels to transport coconut supplies to the US. They were nicknamed the Mounds Flea Fleet. There were about seven ships, small enough to avoid detailed scrutiny by the German naval war vessels.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  My gosh, all of this just to get coconut for some candy?

• 44:08Speaker 00

  Wait, it gets better.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  I have to say, if you're a ship captain during World War II, are you risking your life to bring people coconut?

• 44:16Speaker 00

  Hold up.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Okay, I guess you are.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  Apparently, this Flea Fleet, as it was called, was so-

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Flea, like flea, L-E-E?

• 44:24Speaker 00

  F-L-E-A. A little flea fleet. It's a little fleet. It's a flea fleet.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Oh, a teeny tiny.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  It's a tiny fleet.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  It was so small in size, it posed no threat to the German U-boats that were patrolling the Atlantic waters. But what the German naval commanders did not know was that the crew of these vessels were also gathering more than coconuts. They were gathering valuable intelligence about the Germans' fleet movements and sharing it with the American Armed Forces.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Wait one moment. What you're telling me is that while collecting supplies to make one of my favorite candies-

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  -these folks were also providing important war intelligence to the United States government during World War II?

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. The mini Mounds Bar. I'm telling you, I was fascinated by all of this. And they also dropped all of their other production of candies and just concentrated on the Mounds Bar, because it was so popular. And the US military purchased as much as 80% of their output by 1944. They would package 5 million candy bars monthly into combat rations.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. And now, as we know, over the years, Peter Paul, they added several more things to their line, including the Almond Joy, which they're often, you know, sold together. But that's the story of the mini Mounds Bar. They're now owned by the Hershey Company. You can still enjoy them today. Isn't that an amazing story?

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I would like to enjoy one today.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  So would I. The Mounds Flea Fleet.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  You guys, you can learn more about it at connecticuthistory.org. Fascinating.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I have to say, I also love that it's an East Coast candy, because it tracks with our show.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  It does.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  That Michael would be supporting something that originated-

• 46:10Speaker 00

  In Connecticut.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 46:13Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  The things you did not know you were going to learn today were that.

• 46:18Speaker 00

  I know.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I definitely was not expecting that.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 46:24Speaker 00

  And you know, after listening to that, I went back and looked at my notes, and then I went back online, and I pretty much got it.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Lady, I retell that fact at dinner parties, because it is such a great little unknown tidbit. Like, this is especially good at Halloween.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  You're around candy. I love a Mounds Bar. You just say, oh, actually, I have an interesting fact about the mini Mounds Bar.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  It kills.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  It kills. It's just a great little story. Well, I was wondering, was there any other candy used during wartime? Was there? Well, let's just say, I did find a cool story that might be fun at a party.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:10Speaker 00

  Not so much wartime, but sort of historical moments, okay?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:15Speaker 00

  So it's about Twizzlers.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  What?

• 47:18Speaker 00

  Yes. All right. So they were first made in 1912 by the Young and Smiley Company. And the company that invented Twizzlers, that is one of the oldest confectionery firms in the United States. Young and Smiley.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Young and Smiley.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Which was trademarked later to be Y&S, okay? But they've been around a really long time.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  But Twizzlers was kind of little known until the 1960s, and they became really mainstream.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  Now, there is some great lore. Ready?

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  We all know Neil Armstrong's famous quote, that he said after landing on the moon during his historic moon-landing mission, he said, quote, "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  There is rumor that he had a second comment he said right after that.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  What? About Twizzlers?

• 48:11Speaker 00

  There's rumor that he said, quote, "I could go for some Twizzlers right now."

• 48:19Speaker 00

  I mean, the Hershey's Company had it on their website. Other people have talked about it. I don't know for sure, but this is the rumor, that he said, "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. I could really go for some Twizzlers."

• 48:35Speaker 01

  I mean-

• 48:36Speaker 00

  Also, Twizzlers set a Guinness World Record on July 19, 1998, for the longest piece of licorice ever made, stretching over 1,200 feet long and weighing 100 pounds.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Where? On Earth, is it? Was it edible? I guess it had to be edible.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  It had to be edible.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Did a whole bunch of people come and eat it?

• 48:57Speaker 00

  I don't know. I should have looked that up more.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  I have so many questions about the largest piece of licorice.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  I'll have to look back into that one. And here's the other thing, which put it in a little bit of the sort of like world of conflict, right?

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Like historical conflict. It is documented that in 2016, during the American-Iran nuclear talks, that the American diplomatic team consumed 10 pounds of strawberry Twizzlers.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  I guess they were stress eating.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  I guess so. You know, Twizzlers can be used as a weapon. Have you ever slapped somebody with a Twizzler, like, real hard? It hurts.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  Have you?

• 49:39Speaker 01

  I feel like my sister and I might have slapped each other.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  I mean, that's a random, random tidbit to know, just really ready on the go, Jenna. Did you know you can hit people with them?

• 49:50Speaker 01

  You can. You know, if you, like, slap somebody with a towel.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Similar.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  The Twizzler slap.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Well, there goes our Twizzler contract.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  I guess so. Well, that was very interesting, Angela. I love every time you deep dive food. There have been others that are always delicious. Did you like that?

• 50:14Speaker 00

  That was so bad.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  That was so lame. That was such a dad joke.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  You know what? I almost brought Twizzlers in today, and I wish I would have, because then we could have-

• 50:22Speaker 01

  We could have tried to slap each other.

• 50:23Speaker 00

  We could have tried to slap each other and seen if it hurt.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. It does hurt a little. Well, lady, as you mentioned, I also encountered an interesting fact around World War II. It was in a deep dive that I did for the Casual Friday episode. So Casual Friday is from Season Five, Episode 26. And in it, Michael has made Pam and Ryan salespeople, and the rest of the sales staff is getting upset. So Dwight calls a secret meeting of the sales staff in the warehouse. And he does this in a very unconventional way, that led me on a deep dive into invisible ink.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  Fascinating. Fascinating.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  And very moving.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Very moving, harrowing, amazing, survival, fantastic story.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  All right, let's listen.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  Dwight is gonna notice the special treatment that Michael is giving them.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:24Speaker 00

  It's time for him to pass out a secret memo with invisible ink.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yes. Where did he get the invisible ink? You might like to know. He says it's urine.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm guessing his urine.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Yes. He's very frustrated because people don't know how to reveal the invisible urine message.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  Right. They're not savvy to the invisible ink thing.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Well, this got me wondering.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  I Googled, can you use urine as invisible ink?

• 51:54Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Really and truly, at the end of this podcast, I want to print our search history and put it in a frame.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Please do. Well, I'll have you know that, yes, urine can be used as invisible ink. And I discovered the most fascinating story of people using urine as invisible ink. And I'm gonna share it with you now.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. I'm reclining and getting my cup of tea. I'm settling in.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  All right. During World War II, there were a group of Polish prisoners who were taken to a Nazi death camp, and they used their urine as invisible ink to write letters detailing the horrific experiences that were going on at the camp. They were a group of young Polish girls and women who had been part of the Polish underground resistance to the Nazi regime. And they were captured, they were imprisoned, and this group were called the Rabbits of Ravensbrook because, and this is horrible,

• 53:10Speaker 01

  they were subjected to extreme medical experiments like rabbits. That's why they got this nickname. However, they were allowed to write letters to their families back home once a month. But the letters were heavily censored. One of these women remembered that when she was a child, her and her brother had read this series of books where people were writing messages in invisible ink. So they used their urine to write these secret messages. And due to a reaction with the paper, the urine loses its color and becomes invisible. But then if you heat it up, it reveals what was written.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  And in her first letter to her brother, she wrote about these books that they read as kids, and he figured out the code and knew how to reveal the hidden messages. So they came up with this code with their families, which was if the hidden messages were revealed, the families would send back a letter with a little piece of blue string. And that's how they knew if their messages were being received. So eventually, the contents of these letters and the horrific details of the camp were broadcast on the radio, and the camp was liberated by the Red Army, and the four women who wrote the letters all survived. Their letters were used as evidence to prosecute the guards.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  And 77 years later, these letters can still be read because 27 of them are still readable and on display in a museum in Lublin.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. That is an amazing story.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 54:58Speaker 00

  I was completely riveted.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm just sort of speechless at the gravity of that story and how it's amazing.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, just amazing, right?

• 55:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Well, we got a letter from Konrad F. from Lublin, Poland, who said, "Hello, Office Ladies. I've started listening to your podcasts a few months ago while running, and today I listened to the Casual Friday episode. I was shocked because you were talking about the secret letters written using urine during World War II. I checked, and these letters really are on display in one of the museums in my city. I walked by this building probably like 1,000 times, and I never knew that. Thanks for the constant entertainment, as well as all the random bits of information I learned through your podcast. I'm still amazed that my city was mentioned, even though

• 56:00Speaker 01

  it was in one of the weirdest contexts I could have ever imagined."

• 56:05Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I would love to see those letters. I feel like that would be so powerful.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, it would. And I'm so glad they're preserved.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, in revisiting this subject of invisible ink, I found that there are a lot of organic, as they are called, substances that can be used as invisible ink. So urine is considered an organic invisible ink. And others are lemon juice, milk, and a sugar water solution. So like urine, all of these are revealed through applying heat.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Does the milk get smelly?

• 56:49Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'm not sure. Another organic invisible ink is like a candle. Like, I watched a video with a guy who tested different organic invisible inks.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  So do you write with the wax and then take the wax off or something?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Well, he used like a birthday candle.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Uh-huh.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  So he didn't melt the wax or anything. He just sort of used it, kind of like when you write on an Easter egg with like a clear crayon, and then you put it in the colored water, and then it reveals the design. It was kind of like that.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Because the wax is not revealed through heat, it's revealed through putting like a colored substance on top.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Like batik. That's how they make batik.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. Okay. I actually watched him try all of these. This was a fascinating video. I just love that someone, this guy, he was like, "I'm gonna spend my day testing various organic invisible ink methods."

• 57:53Speaker 00

  I love that you watched his video. I love that I watched a video that was an hour long on the Green Man throughout like carvings on churches.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  All the way to King Charles, his coronation invite had the Green Man on it.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Lady, this is a whole other dive.

• 58:11Speaker 00

  I know. I know.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  I love curiosity.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  I do, too. So what else did you watch?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Well, the milk was really good. It was really good because it totally disappeared into the paper. Like, he wrote things in all these organic materials, and then he let them dry. And the milk, like, you could not see any evidence that there was anything on this paper.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  That's fascinating.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  At all. So that was really fascinating. It really disappeared into the paper, and then he revealed it with heat. So I'm just saying Dwight did not need to use his urine. He probably could have just gotten some milk from the fridge.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Or from his cows on the farm.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  I mean, yes.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  He did not need to give everyone notes with his urine on them.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  But before we go, I thought, maybe I could write my own invisible message and reveal it today on Office Ladies. I used my urine as invisible ink.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  No, Jenna. Wait, wait. What?

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  What? Wait, I have so many questions. You peed in a cup?

• 59:25Speaker 01

  I did.

• 59:26Speaker 00

  And then you put it in a writing device?

• 59:30Speaker 01

  No. Like the guy in the video, I used a Q-tip. I dipped a Q-tip into my cup of urine, and I wrote a secret message to be revealed today.

• 59:41Speaker 00

  I really hope this ends up in People magazine.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  No, of course it will. You know that they do me dirty all the time. This'll be the thing of all the things I've shared on the podcast.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  They'll lead with your age.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  A horrible photo of me.

• 59:57Speaker 00

  And it'll be like Jenna Fisher writes with her own urine, after which she peed and didn't wash her hands.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I was gonna say.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  I know. I did wash my hands. Okay, so hopefully you can't read it. I'm gonna hold it up now and I wanna see if you can tell me what I wrote. So I wrote, "Office Ladies and Sharpie." Can you read between the lines?

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  No, I see nothing. Truly.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Okay. It does take a while. I did a test urine message.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  Did you? You know what?

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  This is my family's.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  How many of these have you written?

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  Wait, wait, hold up. Hold up. She was throwing shade at the Greensleeves guy for writing a song about heartbreak. Who has the time? And you did two urine writing tests.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  We don't know that it's two. This could be test number forty, number fifty.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Here's the thing, guys. I-

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  You did have some free time.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  I, I wanted it to work, you know, and I was like, oh, what is the best way to reveal the message? Because you reveal it with heat. And this guy had like a blowtorch, like the kind of thing that you put on top of creme brulee. I don't have that.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  So you brought in a candle and a, and a lighter? I see that you brought in-

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, because this was the best. So I tried some suggestions or that you can use a light bulb.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  I didn't even try that because that just seemed like, come on. And then I did one and I ironed it. That did not work. I used-

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  Lady, you put so much time into this. Oh, my God.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  I used-

• 1:01:33Speaker 00

  Was your family, like, witnessing all of this trial and error?

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  Family hasn't seen her in three weeks.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  I'm like Jim with his pranks on Dwight.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  I used my flat iron. I tried to flat iron it.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  Nothing.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  No, it wouldn't be revealed. Then I used just a lighter underneath the paper and I set the paper on fire.

• 1:01:55Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, I was gonna say, how did you do that without burning it?

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  It's very difficult. And so then I had to be in the cup again and I had to write a whole second invisible message. And I was able to get it to reveal itself using a candle.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  So that's what I brought today. And everyone, we will have to speed up our reaction to this because it's gonna take a minute. Okay.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  Okay, Jenna is lighting the candle. I'll do color commentary.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  It's gonna be a lot of commentary. Okay, ready? Now, I just have to try not to set the paper on fire.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  As I did at home.

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  I will point out there are water sprinklers over our heads. We could get doused.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  I think I see a D or a C.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Oh, wait, D E.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  D E. Okay, we have a D and an E, everybody.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  I can see the second E.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  You can see it.

• 1:02:54Speaker 00

  D E E.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Okay, I think you're starting to see it.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  I can see it.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  I can see it.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Okay, so after eight long minutes, my message has been revealed. Ready for the reveal, everyone? Here it is.

• 1:03:12Speaker 00

  All right. Office Ladies Deep Dives.

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Way to go, lady.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Thank you. I have a question for you guys.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  I think it kinda smells.

• 1:03:28Speaker 00

  It smells like burnt urine. That's what it smells like. I thought of it immediately. I was like, this smells like if you took pee and-

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  And burned it on fire. Yeah. So I guess just-

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Is that not what you were going for?

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  No, that's, that's, I think, one of the downsides. Anyway, everyone, I guess just word of warning if you do it. But then I guess if you use milk, does it smell like sour milk? Maybe.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  Maybe.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Something to try.

• 1:03:55Speaker 00

  Jenna, you have your next assignment. Ah, all right. Well, everyone, thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed our Best of Office Ladies Deep Dives, dare I say, part one.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Will there be another such episode?

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  We do love to Google. That was super fun. I loved it. And thank you to everyone who wrote in. And thank you, Joshua S. from Los Angeles, for talking about it for two years. It finally happened, babe.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  It did. And it was a great episode. You were right.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  All right. We'll see you guys next time.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  See you then.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Our senior producer is Matt Beagle and our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer.

• 1:04:46Speaker 00

  Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.