Emily Sundberg on How Nobody Is Coming to Save Gen Z

What do young professionals in New York City actually think about money and capitalism? According to our guest Emily Sundberg, creator of the Feed Me newsletter, there is a foreboding sense that nobody is coming to save them. End times are coming. AI will take all the jobs. There's a limited time to "secure the bag." In this live episode, recorded in New York City in June, Emily talks about how this translates into consumption and investing decisions among today's youth, and how they see the world of politics. Only Bloomberg.com subscribers can get the Odd Lots newsletter in their inbox — now delivered every weekday — plus unlimited access to the site and app. Subscribe at bloomberg.com/subscriptions/oddlotsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 2:34Joe Weisenthal?

  Hello, Odd Lots listeners. You are listening to another special episode of the podcast. It was recorded in New York City on July 26. In this conversation, we talked to Emily Sundberg of the Feed Me newsletter. We are talking about how Gen Z sees the world, how they think about capitalism, how they think about money, how they think about investing, how they think about spending it, and how they think about how nobody is coming to save them.

• 2:59Tracy Alloway?

  That's right. I don't think it's a secret at this point that Gen Z seems to love stock market investing and things like that, trying to make money. So take a listen.

• 3:10Joe Weisenthal?

  First question, been on my mind the last couple of days. You have a very like, young, plugged in, like, sort of, business capitalism audience. What percentage of your readers do you think voted for Zorong?

• 3:25Speaker 06

  A young man, I think he was 19, a Yale student, emailed me this morning and asked if I could put that poll in my newsletter.

• 3:32Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 3:33Speaker 06

  And I didn't. It felt a little late, but I should have. I'm guessing 65% cautiously.

• 3:41Joe Weisenthal?

  Really?

• 3:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:43Tracy Alloway?

  Can you maybe describe your sort of average reader, just for people who might not be aware? Like, what population are you plugged into here?

• 3:52Speaker 06

  So, I don't know if any of you use Substack, but they don't give you these analytics. So, all of my data about my readership has been quite anecdotal from just looking at people's profiles in the comment section and seeing who shows up to my parties. But do any of you read it? I do. Okay, so some of you, that's some of my audience. I like to say that my readership is everyone from bartenders to billionaires. But I would say like, if you're paying $80 a year for a newsletter, then you're probably making a decent amount of money, or you're at least interested in making money. And I think it's a mostly New York audience, 30 to 45-ish.

• 4:31Speaker 06

  But if you come to my parties, you'll see who else there is. But I would say like people interested in making money and somewhat interested in New York City business and culture.

• 4:40Joe Weisenthal?

  So the first time several tries to get you on the podcast, but we're finally making it happen. And I wanted to talk about like Gen Z and capitalism because I feel like millennials and maybe Gen X, but millennials in particular, like sort of had this love hate relationship, like sort of apologized for wanting money, sort of ambivalent about it. And I get the impression that the younger generation is like much more comfortable with like, yeah, we want to make a ton of money.

• 5:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:09Joe Weisenthal?

  And so I'm like curious. Yeah. So talk about if that's correct, this perception.

• 5:14Speaker 06

  I think one thing that's very clear about Gen Z is that they've repeatedly been told nobody is coming to save you. You're going to graduate into a job market that barely exists. And if you get a job, you might not even have a desk or an office to go into. A lot of them were home during COVID and they're also seeing like shootings in schools all the time and they're seeing their capital getting sworn like there it's nobody is coming to save them and it's sort of up to them to make the most of this world while it's still in existence. And you hear this sense of like get the bag while the world is still here for you to make some money out of it. What was your question?

• 5:58Joe Weisenthal?

  No, that was basically it.

• 6:00Speaker 06

  That's like an overwhelming sentiment that I hear from, from these people. Yeah.

• 6:04Joe Weisenthal?

  I think it was like some survey and they, they asked all the generations like, what do you need to have a good life? And there's something like 70,000, whatever. And then Gen Z was like $500,000 salary or something like that.

• 6:13Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, you're even seeing like, if you're a creator, even at like Goldman Sachs, you're probably making more money as like making day in the life TikToks than you are from your salary. And like, there's this growing creator economy and your role model might be somebody who's like made millions and millions of dollars a year from humiliating themselves online. And like, there's all these possibilities and tools from entering the creator economy. Like I think Bloomberg published a story last week that even just the market for creator marketing is like $33 billion now. It's massive.

• 6:48Tracy Alloway?

  This idea that no one's coming to save you, we've talked about this on an episode before, but it does feel like that kind of translates into people making these lottery ticket type bets, right?

• 6:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:00Tracy Alloway?

  So I'll buy into crypto, or I'll make a ridiculous options trade or something like that and hope that I just get lucky and save myself.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think like something with crypto, there's this online sort of sportsmanship and camaraderie around it as well. So there's like this fun competition and making the money and it's all very public as well to me. Like you're seeing how much your peers are making and winning and you're almost like seeing how much they're taking home each week, which is stressful.

• 7:28Joe Weisenthal?

  How much of the nobody is coming to save you mentality is like AI dread? Like jobs as we know them might not exist.

• 7:37Speaker 06

  I think a lot of it, yeah.

• 7:39Joe Weisenthal?

  Say more.

• 7:40Speaker 06

  I mean, back to this idea that say you graduate from college last week on a hundred degree day and you don't have a job lined up yet, or maybe you do have a job lined up and you're entering a very flat company where there's not like a clear ladder for you to climb. And not only is your timeline there, it probably feels somewhat flat, but the end is like whether you're a copywriter or if you're working in finance, there's like the end of it might be a replacement with mass layoffs and AI coming in to take that job.

• 8:11Tracy Alloway?

  I'm going to ask a completely self-interested question, but does Gen Z truly hate the millennial generation? Is that a real thing?

• 8:19Speaker 06

  I'm not Gen Z, so like I'm not like the speaker of the generation. I'm, I guess maybe I'm 30, so.

• 8:26Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, that's like cuspy, right?

• 8:28Speaker 06

  But I never identified as Gen Z. I'm definitely identify more with millennials. I don't think they truly hate millennials. I don't think that's the case. I think that there's like a lot of parts about, there's like this tween-ness to millennials that is like cringey, but.

• 8:43Tracy Alloway?

  That's fair.

• 8:44Joe Weisenthal?

  I agree.

• 8:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:46Joe Weisenthal?

  I'm really actually.

• 8:49Joe Weisenthal?

  I've actually been thinking about this phenomenon of like really flat companies for a while. So I thought it was like really interesting that you said that because it really feels like, and we actually did an episode recently with The Economist Ricardo Hausmann where he sort of talked about like, companies, their structure is just they have a lot of different people who are like the talent. But it doesn't feel like they're just sort of normal jobs at a lot of companies for people who are just sort of normal to get.

• 9:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, I worked at Meta for a few years and there were like these Roman numerals next to your position. And you knew how much everybody at the company was making if they were like a three or a five. And when you moved from a four to a five, it was like $20,000 more a year, like not life changing. Like maybe you're taking an extra few Ubers like a year or something like that. And it felt very flat. Like, and it's also hard to look at somebody who you're working with who's two levels higher than you and necessarily aspire to that. Like, you're not going to stay an extra two hours at night. It's not inspiring.

• 9:48Tracy Alloway?

  So just going back to Mumdani, so one of the theories about why he's kind of resonating with the younger crowd nowadays is this idea that, okay, they don't really have a stake in capitalism necessarily. Like, they don't feel like they're being rewarded by the capitalist system and so they're voting for change. Is that something you kind of observe in your day-to-day interactions?

• 10:11Speaker 06

  Well, I work alone, so I'm not like observing many interactions from people. But like online, I think the people who gravitated towards him the strongest felt more of religion, like hope. Like, it was like this idea of hope and something different. And it was like a salve after such a rough beginning of the year with like Trump coming into the White House. But yeah, I don't, I think it was, it felt more emotional and almost religious to me than like, at least from like what I've been observing and, and why people attach themselves to that message so strongly.

• 10:46Joe Weisenthal?

  What about, um, we were talking about, okay, you have this desire to get the bag, make a bunch of money in like a lottery ticket metaphorically with crypto or whatever. How does this mentality, how would you say it changes consumption patterns and like the impulse to just like save or like, how does it affect what people buy?

• 11:03Speaker 06

  That's a good question. I was talking to a friend the other day who said that she was at her younger sister's graduation on the West Coast and all of the young women were wearing Gucci sandals, like all of them at this school. It was in the Bay Area. And she's 10 years older than her sister and she was like, this is not something that I witnessed. And it's not like everyone there is loaded to afford this, this like specific sandal. And I know that a lot of you might've read that story in New York Magazine a few weeks ago about the West Village and this sort of homogenous looking young person in New York City. And I'm realizing that that's kind of a phenomenon across the whole country. It's like everyone is wearing the same, buying the same, like fitting into this and millennials,

• 11:48Speaker 06

  back to that. It's like everybody wanted to do their own thing and listen to their own music and, and have their own style and have their own Tumblr or whatever. Like it was annoying. It was annoying, but it, it, it created like diversity of opinions and the ability to have like small shows that sold out and stuff and small brands that existed and small stores that existed. But, and I haven't fully baked out the thought, but I started realizing it like a week ago, like the West Village thing has quickly turned into like, if you live in the, in a flyover state or you live in the West Village, you might be wearing the same exact outfit and be just as obsessed with like the matcha thing, whatever.

• 12:26Speaker 06

  So that's like definitely part of the consumption conversation. It's like you're checking off boxes of, of like small things that you're buying, whether it's at Starbucks or Gucci to like, kind of form this perfect life of what it means to be a 25 year old. And like, okay, now I'm happy. I figured that out. Something else that I've been reading a lot about, I have some young readers and I do a lot of surveys in my newsletter, which is awesome that my readers are even willing to spend like 15 minutes on that because I wouldn't.

• 12:58Speaker 06

  There's a real sentiment of like, the world is burning, so why shouldn't we enjoy the things that we can? And I don't know what the savings accounts of these people look like, or the credit card bills look like, but I know that a lot of these people are spending money that they do not have. Because I understand that the jobs that usually facilitate that are a lot, they're paying a lot more than what these young people are making.

• 13:18Tracy Alloway?

  And I imagine there's a sense that I'm never gonna make enough to buy a house, or something like that.

• 13:23Speaker 06

  For sure. And then there's like, the whole buy now, pay later conversation, which you can buy now, pay later, you're seamless? Like, that's crazy. Yeah, so I think it's like, you make the money, you spend the money, and they're probably not even thinking about, what about my kids? Because that's, the dating apps don't even work, so I don't know where the kids come in.

• 13:41Tracy Alloway?

  Now, this is bleak.

• 13:42Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, this is bleak. Actually, no, but this, I'm enjoying this. So, I lived for many years of my life in Illinois. My dad was a physics professor at a very small college, and it really, it always strikes me like, that he was totally fine moving to a fairly small, large town in Illinois. When you said flyover states, is there this aspiration that like, you have to get to one of the big cities? That like, you have to get to like, New York, or LA, or San Francisco?

• 14:08Speaker 06

  I think as much as, I don't think that's like, a new thing. I think it's like, we'll get to the West Village, like, I don't think that every, but there's like, a new grind to do that. I think that there's just as many young people in New York living with four roommates in a one bedroom, with like, weird Home Depot walls everywhere, as there were when I was young. Where they're working, I mean, the three of us are all like, in the creator economy. I'm sure that there's a whole micro group of young people doing the same, trying to do the same thing.

• 14:42Joe Weisenthal?

  We are in the creator economy.

• 14:43Tracy Alloway?

  Just on the, hey, if there's a mic in front of you every day.

• 14:49Joe Weisenthal?

  What else do we do? We're creating.

• 14:51Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah. Did I disagree? No, okay.

• 14:55Joe Weisenthal?

  We're creators.

• 14:57Tracy Alloway?

  Just on the West Village girl thing and the idea of homogeneity among fashion and consumerism. What do you think is driving that? Is that like a lack of community? Or I don't know, like-

• 15:10Speaker 06

  That was one of the most shocking parts of this story to me. Like, I feel so silly. If there was one person in this room with the same exact outfit as me, I'd be like, "Wait a second." "What happened?" Like, I thought I was putting something together, two white pieces of clothing. But it is, it's really weird. Like, I don't know if you've ever been in one of those workout classes, but it's like, they all have the set. It's, I'm not sure what it is. I have to do some research. Because it's an extreme comfort with having the, an identical-

• 15:42Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 06

  -life. And I think part of it is probably like the Amazon storefront, and they're all following the same influencer who's promoting the same product, and everybody buys it immediately. There's this piece of clothing, I guess it was a dress, from Tory Burch a few weeks ago. And I posted it, because I saw like five people at the, at different weddings on the same weekend, wearing it. And it's a very distinct, like, hot pink dress with mirrors all over it. And I said, "This is gonna be the wedding guest dress of the summer." Like, this is gonna be everywhere. And it sold out the next day. Like, people were not like, "Then I'm not gonna buy it." Everyone bought it. Like, everybody clicked the link and then bought it. Like, there's this, I think when you're all following the same people

• 16:27Speaker 06

  and the same brands and having the same excitement about the time, people follow what time, like, clothing drops come out at these brands too. Like, what time the sites get updated. There's a lot more likelihood than that you're all gonna buy the same thing.

• 16:39Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, that's really weird. Like, you'd think, okay, people wanna be distinct. But I remember, my wife and I went out to a comedy show a couple months ago, and everybody was dressed the same. And both of us were like, sort of flabbergasted.

• 16:49Speaker 06

  What was the same?

• 16:50Joe Weisenthal?

  It was just like, sort of black, like, a sort of black shirt. I mean, you know, it's New York, so people have always worn all black. But it was really weird. There was no color in anyone's clothes in the entire audience that night. And it was very strange. How much do those Gucci sandals cost?

• 17:07Speaker 06

  Eight hundred? I don't know.

• 17:08Joe Weisenthal?

  Oh, man, that's crazy.

• 17:09Speaker 06

  I don't wear, I don't wear them.

• 17:10Joe Weisenthal?

  Okay.

• 17:10Speaker 06

  But, um, eight hu- like, a lot of money for, for a pair of shoes and then for everyone to feel comfort. I mean, we see it all the time with bags and stuff, but it is sort of funny when it's an entire wardrobe.

• 17:22Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Tracy Alloway?

  But I think- Can you talk about the Birkin?

• 17:24Speaker 06

  What, what part do you want to talk about?

• 17:26Tracy Alloway?

  I don't know. Just talk about it. Do people still buy Birkins?

• 17:29Speaker 06

  Like, as an investment?

• 17:30Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 06

  I don't know. Bethany Frankel said she's, she's made like a ton of money on flipping her Birkins, but-

• 17:34Tracy Alloway?

  Oh, God.

• 17:35Joe Weisenthal?

  Flip this Birkin.

• 17:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, she's a flipper. She did, she's bought some new houses, too.

• 17:40Joe Weisenthal?

  One of the things that I always like reading in your newsletter is like, you're always talking about new brands that are launching, new restaurants, et cetera. There's been, we talk about volatility in the market, all this uncertainty due to trade and whatever else. Do you feel any slowdown at all in sort of new entrepreneurial endeavors on account of all this uncertainty that's going on? Or is it just like people just powering through it?

• 18:03Speaker 06

  A slowdown of new economic endeavors of, like, from young people?

• 18:08Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, or just like new, like, new business launches. Has that slowed down at all, in your view, with all the economic question marks?

• 18:16Speaker 06

  Mm-mm. No, I think people are doing it differently, though. I don't think people are as excited to take on, like, venture capital and they're more likely to, like, bootstrap or attach themselves to a friend and, like, try something and have it fail and sort of quietly brush it aside and be like, "I didn't start that weird vodka company." That, it's like, I don't do that anymore, you know? Where I think, like, I can speak to the girl boss very well. Like, the girl boss of, of my, of when I was, like, coming up in my twenties was, like, taking these huge checks from whatever, Forerunner, General Catalyst, or whatever. I never really thought about the implications. And then I think young people have sort of learned what that means at the end, which means people are gonna want some return, and often they don't get it.

• 18:56Tracy Alloway?

  So I know you were talking in your newsletter, I think it was just this week, about another article in New York Mag, which was about the Hamptons and the sort of, like, existential stress, I guess, that rich people in the Hamptons feel about their lifestyle and they feel competitive with one another. And I think you said that people were kind of like- Battering that away and saying that's not so much of a thing. But then, on the other hand, you also wrote about weddings and how much everyone is spending on weddings nowadays, how expensive it is to be a guest. I guess my question is, like, what pockets of the culture, whether it's New York or beyond, are the most consumerist or wealth-obsessed for you right now?

• 19:37Speaker 06

  Women.

• 19:39Speaker 06

  The thing is, it's all happening, the cameras are always on. So like, let's take weddings, for example. Hamptons are a different story. It's like a different econ... There's so many different facets going on there. With the weddings, it's like, it used to be about the bride. And now, it's about every individual at the wedding, and the photo that they're getting, and where the photo's gonna end up after... I'm speaking from like, the point of view of a New York woman who's like, I don't know if this is the case for everyone, but something else that I identified this morning with my husband, that I think, is that I think that the definition of friend who qualifies for wedding is sort of like, expanding as well. So, there's this weird gift culture going on, where if I invite you, then I have to

• 20:24Speaker 06

  invite you, and I'm expecting that you're gonna invite me to yours. And I also think that there's something happening with like, DMs and group texts, where people are getting closer faster, and like, that also affects the wedding guest lists. Yeah.

• 20:38Joe Weisenthal?

  This resonates. Someone in, I think someone in a group chat recently, now they're getting married, and I was like, what the heck? Why didn't I get an invite? We're in a group chat together. So I could see like, that stress.

• 20:50Speaker 06

  Totally. I was talking to somebody before my wedding, which was two months ago, about my wedding, and they were like, so am I invited? And I was like, no, I'm just telling you something about my life right now. But there's also an etiquette epidemic.

• 21:02Joe Weisenthal?

  Wait, what does that mean? What does that mean, an etiquette epidemic?

• 21:06Speaker 06

  Like, people not holding the door for you, people posting photos of your wedding before you do, like, things like that.

• 21:13Joe Weisenthal?

  I think we're out of time. That was so good. That was really, I love your newsletter. I love finally getting a chance to chat, and I think we, at some point, we should do another longer episode just on like, the group chat economy. There are so many facets. Thank you so much, Emily.

• 21:27Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 21:42Tracy Alloway?

  This has been another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Tracy Alockway. You can follow me at Tracy Alockway.

• 21:47Joe Weisenthal?

  And I'm Joe Weisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Armin, Dashell Bennett at Dashbot, and Cale Brooks at Cale Brooks. For more Odd Lots content, go to Bloomberg.com/oddlots, where we have a daily newsletter and all of our episodes. And you can chat about these topics 24/7 in our Discord, discord.gg/oddlots.

• 22:09Tracy Alloway?

  And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you like it when we do these live recordings, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening.

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