BONUS | Post Season Reflections with Stacie

After the release of episode 6, we sat down with Stacie Love to discuss what has happened since Not Just a Terrible Story came out. Stacie opens up about the explosive Facebook post in the Centennial alumni group, the messages she's received, and answers some of the questions we've been getting. Reach out to our team at [email protected]. For more exclusive content head to terriblestory.substack.com https://terriblestory.substack.com/. Get free access to archival photos, resources, and bonus stories that didn't make the cut. Plus — get early, ad-free episodes as a paid subscriber. If you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual violence and needs help, please visit rainn.org http://rainn.org or call the national hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or text HOPE to 64673. You can anonymously report school employee boundary crossing and grooming and educator sexual misconduct to Safe Oregon. You can call or text 844-472-3367 or email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. If you’d like to learn more about educator sexual misconduct and get involved, there are many great organizations doing research, education and advocacy work, including: S. E. S. A. M. E. https://www.ncsesame.org/– Stop Educator Sexual Abuse Misconduct & ExplotationEnough Abuse https://enoughabuse.org/ The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children https://www.missingkids.org/homeAmerican Association Of University Women https://www.aauw.org/Stop Sexual Assault in Schools https://stopsexualassaultinschools.org/

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 01

  I wanted to share a conversation Katie and I had with Stacy. We talked about the release of the show, Stacy's experience sharing her story, and what's next for her. If you have a story you want to share, reach out to us at [email protected]. And if you want to learn more about how we made this show, head over to our Substack, terriblestory.substack.com. All right, here's our conversation with Stacy.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  How are you doing? We released episode six today. How does that feel for you?

• 1:26Speaker 03

  It's such a relief, honestly. You know, it's kind of like, it's all out there in the world, and we did the project. I'm so proud of us. I know this is not the end. I have to say, like, going into the project, I had so many fears. It just is kind of funny to look back on because I was just so terrified. And the amount of support I've gotten has been amazing, and it really makes me look at like, what was that? Like, why was I so scared? I still have to do some thinking on that because I have not wrapped my head around that.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  It makes sense. It took you a while to come to terms with the kind of facts of your life, and so you're not sure exactly how it's going to land with everyone.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Totally. And I feel like you, in particular, said, like, being a younger generation. I remember certain parts of us making it, and you were like, no, no, that's not a big deal. And I'm like, are you sure? Like, oh, my gosh.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Well, is there anyone, any specific ones that stand out?

• 2:25Speaker 03

  This had nothing to do with you, but the one thing that stands out to me is when people, people were putting on Facebook about creepy teachers, and they were doing like a hashtag creepy teacher thing. And I remember my husband and I even talking about it, and he was like, ooh, be careful, like, don't call teacher creepy. And then I was like, it kind of hit me as we were recording, like, why not? If a teacher is creepy, like, just call him creepy. Like, you could call him whatever teacher, right? Like, smart teacher, cool teacher. Why can't you call them a creepy teacher if they're doing creepy things, you know? That was kind of a big aha, as we went through it of just like, the younger generation is not afraid to say the things. And I feel like my

• 3:10Speaker 03

  generation, and me especially, so I don't want to lump other people into this, like, are such people pleasers, which I'm not anymore. Those days are over.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I love that. Yeah, I mean, I think it goes to show just like our hesitance to like question authority and this like innate, like inherent power that teachers have, where you're like, oh, am I even allowed to say that?

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Even Ezra, you know, talked about that, like, whoa, did I go too far? And like, they were threatening him.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  We talked a little about this for recording over the past two years. But what's it like to listen to the story now that it's out with everybody else? Like, it's, you know, available for anyone to listen to?

• 3:57Speaker 03

  It feels really good. It also feels like so incredibly vulnerable. Like, there's moments where I'm like, hell, yeah, let's go empowerment. And there's also moments where I'm like, what, why did I want to do this? You know, which I'm so proud of why we did, and thank you, guys. I believe we all met each other for a reason, and we all did this project for a reason. I was just telling a friend that, like, I really left, like, a church and spirituality a long time ago. This project has kind of made me, I don't like organized religion, not going back to that, but it has re, like, instated my belief in, like, there is a higher power, because there's no way

• 4:40Speaker 03

  any one of us in this room, I feel like, could have done this without some higher power, like, connecting us or connecting certain people. Even stuff that was disappointing as we were recording, I feel like is gold now. You know, like, certain people not coming forward is part of the story, and that's important for people to hear. We did something very truthful and real, and it wasn't fancy and like, this big production that people wanted to be a part of. And so I just feel like the organic nature of it, just, I love. I just love that.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I totally hear that. Like, I think about, there was a point where we were like, we're going to make this in a year. And if we had done that, there would have been a lot of information that wasn't out yet. So the fact that it took us the time that it did, you know, it's really part of the story because it just wasn't ready to go before that.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  And I also think, just from a personal level, like, you guys know some things that happened in my life, and like, the whole Cornell thing, too. It's like, the timing of it really is like, let's look out for students, whether it's a teacher or a peer or what have you. Like, schools should be a safe place, period. And if they aren't, opening up the conversation and the discussions around that is what we should, every one of us should be doing, like, in every city and every state and in all the places. I think about that every day when I drop off Pete, and I, he's in kindergarten this year, and I'm like, walking through the hallway, and the little kids

• 6:20Speaker 03

  are like, some are happy, and some are throwing fits, and they're all in their own, like, emotional bubble. And I keep looking at them and just thinking, like, wow, I hope they're safe through their whole education, because what I know is there's a chance they won't be. And that just, like, breaks a little bit of my heart a little bit.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  I feel that, Stacy.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you've got little ones in elementary school right now.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. You drop them off at the gate, and they wave by, and you hope for the best, and hope that you're, you have an open line of communication with them for when they come home, and they can tell you about what's going on.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  You've spoken a little bit about this already, but let's talk about the response.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  So one of my classmates, his sister posted on the Centennial Alumni page, and within a week, there were almost 400 comments.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  One week. And it was like, you know, Facebook, Facebook's like, older generation. So this was like dipping into like 70s, 80s, 90s. It was like someone just dropped a match into a gasoline tank, and I loved it. I thought it was great. And some people were really upset because it was like, you don't want to out someone who doesn't want to talk about it. And I get that because I, I talk about it in the podcast, but I've thought about it more. Like, when I was with Brett, I was covering for Centennial, and I was covering for him, and it would have pissed me off had someone, you know, my sister and Sean coming forward about my niece is a good example. I just cognitively

• 8:04Speaker 03

  couldn't even go there. And so I truly understand the confusion, or the, like, maybe people don't have the capacity to go there, or they just, it's too much, or, you know, like, I have been that person. Then the moderator turned it off as it was reaching 400, because some people were getting a little volatile with each other. And so then someone else posted the next day and was like, why did you turn off those comments? And there's like, a whole different group on that one. It's just... Um, I don't know, it makes me happy. I mean, you, you guys know why I started this.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  It was to get those conversations going, to open hearts and eyes and ears. And that's what it's doing. And recently, some ladies posted like, "At our bongo night, your podcast was the talk of the night." The thing that's like really on my mind is like, okay, cool. We did this amazing project. What's next? Like I told you guys, like, I remember the moment where I was like, "There should be a podcast or a documentary about this." And I remember the moment where I was like, I felt the calling to do it. I don't feel the calling to do the next part. I feel like the calling is like for a bigger movement. Like, I'll be a part of it 100%, but I feel like,

• 9:30Speaker 03

  not that I did my part and I'm done, but it's just like, okay. Like, passing the torch, passing the mantle, like, what is it?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I think that's such a good point. It's like, yeah, getting the story out there, starting the conversation is such a huge part of it. And making sure that like, you know, I think we really were mindful about setting the tone for the conversation too. Like, obviously, we don't want to be, um, naming victims in chats. But we do want people to be open to talking about behaviors that felt uncomfortable and reporting those behaviors, especially if those people are still having access to children. Um, so I think that that we're giving people language, as Katie always puts it, and kind of putting words to something that we've all just kind of lived around in silence, you know? Has anything surprised you about people's reactions?

• 10:21Speaker 03

  You know, the one thing that has really surprised me is a lot of people have come to me with different stories that have nothing to do with high school or grooming, but something traumatic that happened in their own life. They have just continuously said, like, "Hearing you come forward, like, and do this made me think about this." That I've never, you know, like we've talked about, like, put away in the old yearbook, in the back of the corner, in the attic or whatever. And, um, that's felt really cool for me, you know? It's just like, yeah, let's, let's all get it out.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  I've had a similar experience with friends and acquaintances reaching out and being like, "Wow, I'm just thinking about, you know, the older guys we used to hang out with when we were in high school." Or all of these interactions that we had that we didn't have language for how they were making us feel. We didn't understand. We thought we were adults when we were 17 and that we could make adult decisions.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  We, we talked a lot about giving permission to talk about this or look at it. And even just seeing you, if someone doesn't have a story of boundary crossing and grooming and in their past, but just like talking about the harder, messier parts of life or just navigating something hard or healing and dealing with it much later in life. I think that those are things that we don't talk about a lot. They're not portrayed frequently in movies and TV. And yeah, so just seeing like a real person do it and seeing that the process can be kind of raw and messy, I think is really powerful.

• 12:03Speaker 00

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• 12:48Speaker 00

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• 13:07Speaker 01

  People have heard this final product that has sound design and that we've, you know, kind of told this story over six episodes. But what was that like for you? And what was it like to make this decision to tell your story?

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Well, first of all,

• 13:24Speaker 03

  there were moments that were not pretty. I will tell you that. Like, um, reliving, like truly reliving stuff, uh, brought up a lot and bubbled up a lot. And, um, some of it I handled well and some of it I didn't. I'm not upset that I put myself in that position at all. I'm actually very proud and I'm glad that I put myself because I truly have come out of it like a very different person. But I don't want to like sugarcoat it for people and make it out to be like, this was this easy process. It was easy for me. It was easier for my family. It was hard for all of us because they saw me as a hot mess sometimes. And I, I was, and I'll own it. I was. But it's hard to

• 14:08Speaker 03

  open up these vulnerabilities and know it's going to come out publicly. I think you'd be psychotic if you weren't a hot mess sometimes, you know? And, um, and I'm okay with that. And I hope my family is too.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Stacy, I have a strong visual of when we were meeting in Portland for that first recording trip. And Sid and I like left really early in the morning. We were getting all set up and you knocked on the door. And I was like, oh, I'll answer the door. And it had not really occurred to me like, it really, it occurred to me, I was like, oh, I don't actually know who is coming through the door, what this will be, yeah, who this human is. And I just remember very vividly opening that door. And I'm curious, is that memory as vivid for you as it is for me? Like, what was that like?

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. That's why I came in a pajama set. I was like, I'm going to be in the most comfortable place I could possibly be. Um, I actually had a date set up right afterwards with one of my friends. I'm like, please, let's meet up afterwards so I can just like decompress before I go home, which ended up being fine. I had more buildup to what it actually was, you know? But then seeing you guys and their recording machines and all the things, I was like, okay. I mean, I knew what we were doing, but it was just kind of one of those like brace for impact moments.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I'm curious if there's any moments where retelling it and hearing part of your story back was healing.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  And my brain. I did not see this like chronologically or in order. And I do wonder, like, could you do a workshop? Or could you do something to help people like who've been through some pretty severe trauma? That's complex. Help them. But the podcast helped me see it. And I've heard that from every single person in my life that's close to me. They were like, I've heard all these stories. I knew this. But hearing it in this way helps me understand what you've been through. And I'm like, me too. I, I lived it and it helped me understand it. Like, I'm so grateful for that because I don't even think that's something that's even talked about.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  That's something that we talked a lot about because, you know, as we put the timeline together, this is when these things are happening. And we're pulling this information from interviews with you, from emails with your sister, from documents from TSPC and Department of Homeland Security. And so we're creating this like master timeline. It's like, there's no way that could like live in somebody's brain, especially when you're going through the most traumatizing things that can happen to a person. Like a knock on the door from the Department of Homeland Security. You're instantly in like fight, flight, or freeze. And I think the ability to catalog things in your brain kind of goes out the window at that point.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  It does. One thing I've learned through this process is a predator

• 17:08Speaker 03

  picks you. Predators pick you. They see a vulnerability in you. They see you're not going to speak up. And then they calculate and scheme. And when that happens to you, you question yourself forever. But this process helped me not question myself. This process, I think you guys gave me kind of the biggest gift in my life of like, I'm not questioning myself anymore.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Were there any parts of the, like, particular parts of the story, certain episodes? Or like, were there any particular moments that you heard from people about, like, a lot?

• 17:43Speaker 03

  That, "You're not crazy." I got a lot of text messages that were very sweet of like, "You're not, I just want to tell you, you're not crazy." Which is funny because I don't even remember saying that. Um.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  And overwhelming, so four is when we go into all the other teachers, right? That was overwhelming for everyone. Uh, of just like, holy shit. It was a big holy shit moment. And I know that a lot of people wanted, and they had questions then of like, are you going to go through more stories? So I tried to explain to people like in social media, like this is a story. There's a start and a finish and an arc. So like, no, we can't go through every single story, but I think it was helpful for people to know, like, we know there are other stories.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  I think about the way we chose to structure for it's like, there are so many stories that all deserve to be told. But there's like these limiting factors, right? Do we have somebody to speak on it? Do we have documentation? And then we really thought about with four, cause there were some stories we had to cut. We thought like, is there a clear tangible lesson that can be pulled out of this? For example, one of the tangible lessons is stop passing the trash, like with Iverson. Another tangible lesson is like, do proper investigations at the time you receive a report. It's not that other stories weren't important at all. And we, you know, we're open to continuing to cover stories as like documentation.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  And sources become available, we want to continue to tell these stories. And our inbox is always open to talk to people. But there are those like, those limiting factors that we have to address. Were there parts of the show that you were nervous for people to hear?

• 19:28Speaker 03

  All of it, but four, four was like my favorite one. Cause I'm like, here we go. But that vulnerability of, you know, that voice where I was just like, I should have known better, you know, everything I say in the end where it's like, I felt like I was going to get in trouble, but I had told my sister. And I truly believe this, like this was going to kill me if I didn't tell it. Like I felt it like eating me alive. Once I saw it, I had to like, pay it forward to everyone else who's been through it, but I also had to like, help myself get it out of my body and get it out of my soul and my everything, you know?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  I think there's a big question, I guess, about what accountability looks like, like we've told this story and we've told the story of why there wasn't more accountability and where some of the gaps were. And I guess for you, you know, as the main storyteller that we spoke to, what does accountability look like for you?

• 20:25Speaker 03

  You know, that is the main thing that I'm hearing right now for people like, okay, cool. Our eyes and ears are open to this, like what now? And you know what? I don't think I have the answer.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't know what that is, but I think there, there should be accountability. I think it was a big consensus I get from people that I'm getting messages from is like, how are these people allowed to be around children right now? And I don't have the answer to that. That was what infuriated me too.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  That's a really hard place to get to. And it's also your one person who doesn't have the power to hold somebody responsible for their actions. It really is in somebody else's hands now, like we've told the story. I think maybe we should talk a little bit about the end of episode six. So something Katie and I talked a lot about in the writing and making of episode six is you were really clear in this project that you didn't want to come off as this like fixed, completed, healed, moved past it all person, because that's not the reality of life. You are a complex, three dimensional human being. And you wanted to be honest with people about how hard it was. Do you think we did that in the ending of the show?

• 21:43Speaker 03

  I think that might be one of the hardest parts to tell, because it is such an internal, complex part of a human. I didn't want any victim or survivor to be like, oh, wow. This is what she had to do to heal herself and she's all good. And cause I just want that, I want everyone to realize it's like, it's just a process.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  And I think a lot of people don't start going through the process because it feels so overwhelming. It's like running a marathon. It's like, how do I get to the marathon? Well, you get to the marathon by printing out a schedule and like Monday, you're going to do this and Tuesday, you're going to do this and Wednesday, you're going to do this. And like, you do these things and then pretty soon you can run a marathon, you know? But you can't just run a marathon. Day one, I can't run a marathon ever. I, but I have walked a marathon. And that's how I did it is I practiced and I followed literally what the steps were to get there. Yeah. I didn't want to do a disservice of like, if you've never thought about it, if you never wanted to talk about it, if you, your husband doesn't know about it, your wife doesn't know about it, like,

• 22:52Speaker 03

  I've told people things in the last five years. It happened to me as a child. Like I got married without telling my husband these things, you know, like, it took me into my forties to start to open up about certain things and that is okay.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  It's actually very normal. And as soon as you can just have that first conversation of like, hey, this crazy thing, I'm scared to tell this, this crazy thing happened. It starts to open up the door to like talking about it more and that that pit in your stomach or wherever it is starts to fade, the more and more and more you can talk about it.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Stacy, you said that you wanted to, with this, you wanted to close the book. You wanted to close the fucking book, we say. And like, right. A completely different story. Do you have some thoughts on what that story might be?

• 23:50Speaker 03

  I obviously my mom and a wife, and so that's like number one for me. I also work for a really cool company outside of Boston and that's, I love the company and everything I do. Um, I am starting a couple like passion projects that kind of have a similar feeling to how I felt when we started this, where it was like little light bulbs went off. Um, one is called tell her the truth and it's more like advocacy work and potentially talking in schools and I'm working on like a kid's book and you know, continuing this conversation, but I don't want this to be the story of my life, because it's not, you know, it's just, I want it, I want to be able to hold that torch and keep telling the story without it like being the center of my story.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that. Just coming into ourselves more and more all the time.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, it feels good just to be like, yeah. We can talk about hard things. We talk about fun things. You want to go dancing? You want to go get coffee? Like I'm down for all of it.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I think throughout this whole podcast and you show that you can hold the multiple truths at the same time.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Well, that's life and I keep having those conversations and I think the more that people can hold both. And honestly, my son, the other day we had an amazing conversation. He's so emotionally intelligent. And he, he said that to me and I don't think I've ever even said it to him. He's like, I have to hold both these at the same time. And I was like, yes, that's brilliant. That's smart. That's healthy. Good for you. Do it. You know, you can hold two truths. Someone was texting me today, like this makes me sad about my high school. And I was like, two things can be true. You can say, I have these great memories and this stuff happened. Both are true. And the more we like try and put it in black and white, I feel like

• 25:41Speaker 03

  that's where we battle each other on social media and about politics and it's, this is the right way and this is the wrong way. And it's like, no. Really, there's probably something in the middle that's more true than anything else. And that's why I say, I don't hate anyone from Centennial. And the people that didn't stand up, like, yes, I'm upset about it. Do I hate them? No, they're humans and they, you know, a lot of those teachers, they were students before. And they saw whatever was in the culture and they went and got their teaching license and came back and thought that they could do it. I hold them accountable and I know, I told you guys this, the first time we went to Centennial.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  I, you know, consequences are consequences for what you do in life. That is still true. And I can have empathy for what you were modeled and you thought you could come back and do is a real thing.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I think that's something we didn't get to talk about enough in the podcast is.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  I mean, how can you? That's like a its own thing.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  It's its full on thing. And I think, yeah, I mean, the fact that so many of these teachers were students at the time went and saw other teachers' behavior. Obviously it's never an excuse for the behavior that an adult has, but it really does speak to the way things unfold when you're young, the pattern repeating itself.

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. You see something happen and you think, oh, it's fine.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Well, I commend you for breaking that pattern.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Thank you. Yeah. I feel, honestly, I feel really proud of all of us. I feel like all of us kind of jumped off a cliff. Um, and did a big old swan dive.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  We are an independent production. You can support us by sharing this podcast with a friend and leaving a five star review wherever you are listening right now. Or hop over to our Substack, terriblestory.substack.com. There's a lot of great free stuff over there, archival photos, resources and stories that didn't make it into the show. And you can also get early and ad free episodes as a paid subscriber. To get in touch, send us an email at [email protected]. This podcast was created and produced by Katie Klein and me, your host, Sydney Gladu. Show art by Casey Burnell. Original music by Sean Simmons. Additional music from Blue Dot Sessions. Maria Palaiologos is our strategic growth advisor. And a very special thank you to Stacy Love,

• 28:12Speaker 01

  whose bravery, honesty and determination made this series possible. May her truth telling give others permission to trust their own stories, use their voices and know that they are not alone. If you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual violence and needs help, please visit rainn.org. That's R A I N N dot O R G. Or call the national hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE. Or text HOPE to 64673. If you'd like to learn more about educator sexual misconduct, check out the show notes for additional resources.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Hiring fast is one thing. Hiring fast and staying compliant across different countries is where things get tricky. And it's exactly the problem Pebble solves. If you've ever tried to do it on your own, you know, the paperwork, the approvals, the regulatory blind spots. It can take months just to get someone started. Pebble makes global hiring simple through embedded compliance and AI driven workflows. Pebble takes the delays and guesswork out of going global. So founders and HR leaders can move fast without adding risk. Hire in over 185 countries in minutes, not months. Contracts, payroll, benefits, all in one place, integrated with the tools your team already uses.

• 29:51Speaker 00

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