Is It A Crime? with Lovia Gyarkye

We regaled Lovia Gyarkye with a story about an eldest daughter introducing her boyfriend to her immigrant mother. (Plus just a hint of acappella!) Subscribe and learn more about Hammer & Hope here https://hammerandhope.org/. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page:https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mXaIl0ePIGIuNZ2boqV3yu2vkUrOOeFKf5sotLXF6NA/edit?usp=sharing. Follow the show on Instagram@normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae https://www.instagram.com/heyydnae/?hl=en) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae https://www.instagram.com/seera_sharae/?hl=en) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member ofRadiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Today, I'm just gonna get right into it because I'm so excited for today's guest. I have known her for almost a whole decade. She is a writer and editor, whose work has appeared in The Hollywood Reporter, The Nation, The New York Times, and The Washington Post. Currently, she is an editor for Hammer and Hope, a magazine of Black politics and culture that is so gorgeous, y'all. We are gonna leave a link to Hammer and Hope's website in the show notes so that you can subscribe, and you should. But

• 0:48Speaker 00

  without further ado, welcome to the show, Lovia Jacha. Lovia, hello. Thank you for joining me.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Uh, Rachel, it is my honor. It is my honor. I'm so excited to be here.

• 1:02Speaker 00

  I am so excited you're here. Our listeners do not know this, but you are the guest that I have actually known the longest. We have known each other since 2017, so almost 10 years when this airs.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. An honor to know you for that long. We've changed so much. We've grown together.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Well and truly. And we met in a gossip-richened environment. So I have some idea of your relationship with gossip, which is that you were very good at it. But tell me how it came to be. Tell me how this relationship started.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  I love gossiping. I love to gossip. I love tea. I wanna know it. And I'm a good person to gossip with because eight out of 10 times, I'll probably forget the details, but I'll always remember how I felt, you know? And I'm a very, like, expressive person, I've been told. And so, like, when I'm listening to a story, I'm really giving you what you want. I'm like, my mouth is, like, open at the right times. My eyes widen. I say, "Oh." I think gossip is a lawful good. I grew up in the church, in the Pentecostal church, and so, an environment also rich with gossip, I would say.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  And I think that, you know, church people know this, like, church people love to be like, I would never sin, like, God is on my side, da-da-da, all that stuff. And then the underbelly of the church is revealed through the gossip networks. And so I've always loved gossiping. I think gossip is good. I think people should not be ashamed of loving to gossip. It's fine. It's not that deep. We're not going to hell, because we're already living in it, so.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Honestly, I think that was a perfect example of why I love gossiping with you so much, which is that you were never afraid to take it to the point that it needs to be taken. I feel like so many people are afraid of saying the dark thing, or of asking the really complicated question that people don't want to answer. But I know when I come to you with a story, or even something about myself, you're gonna ask me a question that I don't actually want to answer. And so I know that when I'm coming to you, it's with the intention of my worldview being opened.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Wow, that is so sweet. That's a really nice way of saying that I'm nosy. I love that. Thank you, Rachel. I love research. That's why, that's how I started my career, you know? We both started as fact checkers. So I'm always like, how do we get to the bottom of this? You know, I love a little psychoanalysis. I think gossip is like a great place to hone your storytelling skills. You can become a better listener when you gossip. I just think that there are so many good skills. You know, I sound like LinkedIn.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  But a lot of good skills that come from gossiping. And so we should embrace that. Yeah, lawful good, lawful good.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Lawful good. I feel like you've empowered me so many times in our long friendship. And now I'm hoping that you can do it again, because I heard that you have some gossip for me.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, I do. So, if you don't know, I was a film critic for many, many years. So, I'm at a film festival. I'm at a party at a film festival at like, a really beautiful hotel. And it's overlooking the water. There are celebrities around, there are publicists around, there are journalists around. And I'm just there to kind of soak it all in. I'm really there to say that I was there. You know, I don't want to be seen, but I want to see.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Yes. Yes.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  So imagine me, I'm standing on the dock of this like, this hotel's like connected to a dock cause like, obviously, everybody has a yacht. And I'm looking across the dock, I'm looking at the ocean and I'm scheming about how I can maybe come into a cool ten million dollars, okay? Which is, I'm always feeling like, what is the scheme I'm gonna do to make ten million dollars immediately? And this C-list celebrity comes up to me and says, hi. And I'm like, confused. I'm like, hello. And they're like, I love your dress. When the C-list celebrity said this, I said, oh my gosh, thank you so much. And she's like, who made it? I said, oh, well, hopefully not some child slave.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  And because I bought it off like, what the equivalent of like African sheen, I'll be honest. She's like, oh my god, you're so funny. I'm like, thank you so much, I wasn't kidding though. And I'm like, who made your dress? You know, I'm, I'm having conversation. She's like laughing a little too hard. I'm like, honestly, like, I'm not that funny. And she's like, oh my god, you've got, you've gotta meet my partner, you've gotta be my partner.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  No!

• 5:42Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, no, no, no, um, you know, I really am like keeping it low key here, like, I'm not really trying to be seen. I was like, that's so sweet. She was like, no, no, no, you've gotta be my partner, you've gotta be my partner. And like, you have to come to dinner with us. Like, we, you know, got a table at this like really expensive restaurant that's like in the town that this festival is in, and like, you have to come with us. And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea, like, I'm a critic actually. She so insists on it. I walk away for a little bit, cause I'm trying to avoid her now. You know, very sweet, but I'm like, I don't wanna be part of this.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  No, it's too much.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  And I'm telling the friend that I came with, I was like, I think it's time to go. And I'm getting asked questions like, will you come to dinner with me? You know what I mean?

• 6:25Speaker 00

  With me and my partner?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Right. As I'm like trying to find my friends and gather the group and, and exit, our friend finds me, our C-list celebrity friend, and she's like, where are you going? She drags me to her partner and is like, honey, honey, honey, I have someone I need you to meet. The partner turns around. And it's like this A-list actor that I will not name like on the record, but I will tell you later, Rachel. And it is so awkward because they're like, hey, I'm so and so. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, this is kind of like the person I don't really want to be associated with. But then he's like, I would love if you come to dinner with us. You really should. We'd love to hang out with you. And I was like, this desperation is so crazy to me. And later when I was telling my boyfriend about this,

• 7:10Speaker 01

  he was like, wait, I wonder if like they wanted to have a threesome with you.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, one hundred percent. Wait, I thought that I thought that was the established vibe of we saw your vibe across the room. I will say I cannot fault either one of these individuals because you're so beautiful and funny and smart. I would also see your vibe across the room and be like, hey, do you want to hook up with me and my partner? So I did it. Love you. That gossip was so good.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Thank you. I really wanted to deliver for you, my queen Rachel.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  And you did. I feel delivered.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  And now I'm here to deliver you.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I can't wait to hear what you have in store.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Are you ready for some gossip?

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm gonna be taking notes. We're gonna be connecting dots here, okay?

• 8:04Speaker 00

  I'm gonna admit something embarrassing. I know, shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for um an undisclosed amount of months, long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow, they deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But uh this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp and I had a vision in mind. Wayfair, they had exactly what I need, which is one of those library style lights with like the green lampshade and little pull cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one and now I have one because of course Wayfair had it.

• 8:47Speaker 00

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• 9:09Speaker 00

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kind of just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Book your first session in minutes and you can start in as little as two days. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com/gossip to get started today. That is growtherapy.com/gossip. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

• 10:21Speaker 02

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• 10:53Speaker 00

  Today, our friend of a friend is named Sade.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Incredible. And that's a gift. One of my favorite artists, Sade. Sade, if you're listening to this, please, I would do anything for you to go on tour again. I would pay a lot of money.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  Well, before we get into the gossip, I have to ask, what is your favorite Sade song?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Uh, don't ask me to pick my favorite child.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  I won't be answering that on the record. God, Rachel's trying to set me up.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  You're right. I'm so sorry. I'll set myself up because I think mine is "Is It a Crime?"

• 11:27Speaker 01

  I can hear that now.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  Same. Not least because it's also a working alternate title for today's episode.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  So, our friend of a friend, Shadé, does not just share a name with the more famous Shadé. Our friend Shadé is also Nigerian, Yoruba, to be specific. And just like the OG Shadé, our friend Shadé loves to sing.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Sorry, I'm also West African, so obviously I'm already feeling kinship.

• 11:57Speaker 00

  These two things, that Shadé is Yoruba and that she loves to sing, are arguably the two most important things to know about her.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  But some other important things to know about Shadé is that she is the child of immigrant parents. So she is second generation. She has got two siblings who, quite frankly, do not matter to the story. What does matter is knowing that Shadé is the eldest daughter.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. Hey, am I Shadé? No, I'm kidding. I'm from Ghana, so that's not correct.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Well, Lovia, you seem to have some experience. If you had to describe the stereotypical eldest daughter of immigrant parents,

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  how would you?

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Okay, you know, I know there's a lot going on on the internet right now about eldest daughters. Okay, there are a lot of memes, there are counter memes, parentification, and all of it is true. Every single one of them are true. To be the eldest daughter in, in an immigrant household is to carry the team. It's to be a project manager, it's to be managing editor, it's to be COO, okay, COO, maybe even CFO. Okay, and it's third parenting, right? But then you have like a moment where you're like, wait a minute, these aren't my kids.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Wait a minute, I had nothing to do with these people being here.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Right, and you're talking about your siblings and your parents.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it might not surprise you to learn that when Shadé was choosing colleges, she chose the one that gave her the most financial aid and that was the furthest away from where her parents lived in Houston.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Exactly. She's so smart.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  She is so smart because this winds up being Stanford.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, and she's a genius? Girl, pack it up.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Sade's major is irrelevant to the story.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  What is relevant is that within a few weeks of arriving on campus, Sade joins everyday people, Stanford's only hip hop, R and B, Motown and soul a cappella group.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Wow, they're doing so much. I love that. One group, all of it. Yes.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  How do you feel about a cappella? I feel like we both came of age around the Glee Pitch Perfect boom.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  I did dress up as a Glee cheerleader for high school Halloween. Okay, I can't sing. I'm tone deaf, actually, famously.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Same.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  I have a love hate relationship with a cappella because on a fundamental level, it's so corny. But then it really does something to me because it's so akin to gospel, right? I'm like, I love a choir. I love a situation, okay, ensemble voices and we're all singing and we're getting higher and higher. And it feels like we're in church. So I'll admit that it's it's a tense relationship. I accept it. I accept. I have a lot of friends who do a cappella, if you're listening, I'm sorry. Um, like, I I get it. But it's sort of like, it just sometimes has a little bit too much proximity to theater kids. And I love the theater and I have a challenging relationship with the theater kids.

• 14:58Speaker 00

  Lovia, as always, you're so smart.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Everything you say, I'm like, and you know what? Correct. What a well considered answer that I 100% agree with. Uh huh. I'm so glad you're here.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I'm so happy to be here. I'm already like creating scenarios for Sade. I don't even know her.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  And that is the point of this show is to create scenarios based on very little information.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:22Speaker 00

  So here's where I admit that I have never seen a whole episode of Glee. I will say that I did used to listen to the Glee Pandora station.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  The Uptown Girl cover, Low Key Whips. Anyway.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Sade joins Everyday People and this comes to define her college experience. It's where she meets some of her closest friends and it is also where Sade meets Jeremy. Jeremy is a feminist gender and sexuality studies major. He is the child of two Californian hippies who had a secret fondness for disco and Motown, which is how he finds himself singing Tenor in Everyday People. And the best way to describe Jeremy's whole vibe is I'm gonna play a video and I'm gonna ask if you can tell me if it rings a bell.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  There's some people hatin' big time, but there's people hatin' on this campus. You are freaking African Americans plus Mark.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? Which I'm rocking with Mark because Mark is rocking with us.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Okay, hey, we all have a mark in our lives and, and we, we share a mark.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  We do share a mark.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  I won't say too much on that, but I love that meme and I actually sent that to our mark recently and I said, this is you.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  This is you.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. Could you describe that video? Like, what is a mark?

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Iconic, iconic TikTok of a coach basically talking to a room full of black men and then this white man, who's it? Ginger? And the coach saying, we are freaking African Americans, okay? And then the camera just in such a delicious way pans to the redhead and Mark. Okay? And we're rocking with Mark because what? Mark's rocking with us. And I think that is a video about solidarity, okay?

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Yes. So, most black people, I think, know at least one white person like this.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  We share one in common and it is a white person who is comfortable being the only white person in the room and does not feel the need to point out that they are the only white person in the room. So, this is one of the many things about Jeremy that catches Sade's eye. He's also sort of sneakily really funny. Like, he's not the loudest person in the room by any means, but when he does crack Joke, everyone laughs. And he also never seems to get ruffled, even when everyone's like melting down during their studio album recording. Because of course, everyday people has multiple studio records. Olivia, you were definitely in student organizations in school. I don't even have to ask. What are the vibes when the big deadline is coming up?

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Student organizations are, to me, like what I imagine the White House would be during a crisis. It's completely fabricated. It's just like a completely manufactured urgency. You're putting a bunch of essentially teenagers and you're like, take charge. So you have this combination of like the White House control room and Lord of the Flies. Leadership is huge. People suddenly take their positions incredibly seriously.

• 18:30Speaker 00

  And you're right. You're right.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Sade's response to stress is a tactic, I think it's called ostriching, which is the stick your head in the sand approach. Sade is like, if I pretend I do not see it, it cannot hurt me. But this is why Sade is so impressed that Jeremy kind of just lets everything roll off his back. Like when they were putting together their tracklist for the album, there was this huge fight about which version of Killing Me Softly the group should record, the Lauryn Hill version or the Alberta Flack version. As you can imagine, this ends up getting really heated. Sade, who has suggested the song is like hiding silently in a corner. She's like, maybe if I don't make a single sound, no one will notice me. It's like a T-Rex.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Do not be perceived, Sade.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Exactly. But from this corner where Sade is not being perceived, Sade sees Jeremy stand up. And he's like, guys, guys, poor Kenyola Stos. Why pit two bad bitches against each other? What if we did a mashup that pays homage to both of these absolute legends? And then Jeremy takes the opportunity, when he has everyone's attention, to be like, and I think Sade should sing it.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Wow, politics is in his future. Jeremy, I don't know where you are now, but hopefully you're running for something because we probably need you, so.

• 19:50Speaker 00

  He's bringing the world together.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, that was moving.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  Jeremy's like, Sade is the one who suggested the song for the album. I just think it's fair. Which Sade did not think anyone had noticed. And from there, it is basically history. Like after rehearsal, Sade thanks Jeremy for so kindly suggesting her. And while she's thanking him, she just happened to mention a coffee shop near campus with a great vinyl collection. I've been wanting to try. The two date for all four years of college. In their senior a cappella performance, they sing "You're All I Need to Get By Together."

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cute. I'm also like, what? But yeah, I'm also like, yeah, absolutely. So cute.

• 20:33Speaker 00

  It is not until after this so cute performance that Sade finally decides to tell her parents about Jeremy.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Wow, she's so brave. I would not have done that.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  The thing is, Sade has met Jeremy's parents plenty of times. It's just never been the right time for Sade to tell her parents about her boyfriend. Graduation is so far away, and now somehow it is a week away. And Sade has to tell her Nigerian parents not only that she is dating Jeremy, but that they are moving in together after graduation.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Sade's gonna do what? Girl, you actually don't have to be honest. And I'm, and you know what? That's not something people want to hear.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  It sounds like you see some problems with this.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm seeing my life in this. You know what I mean? Like, I'm projecting, right? So we're introducing problems where there need not be. Jeremy's just a friend, okay? And when you move in with him far away, he'll be your roommate, okay? Then if you and Jeremy get married, then you can introduce Jeremy to your parents. I don't know, like, listen, I tried this with my own, and let's just say, well, that's, that's for, we'll get coffee and talk about that, Rachel. Like, okay.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  That's like we'll be getting another kind of drink.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but, but kudos to Sade and, and whatever her plan is. I need to see this through.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, so Sade's plan is that when she goes to meet her parents at the airport, she brings Jeremy.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Oh, ambush. That's never works, but I love, yeah, go ahead.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, Sade's parents do at first think Jeremy is the driver. Um, this might be because he has combed his hair back and is wearing a tie because he just wanted to impress Sade's parents. But then they start handing him their bags.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  That is incredible. Yes, that would happen.

• 22:30Speaker 00

  And Sade has to be like, Mom, Dad, stop. This is Jeremy. Sade's mom, Anuli, is like, hello, Jeremy, before looking at Sade and asking, and who is Jeremy?

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Right, like, what? This is Jeremy, girl? Oh, my God. I'm stressed.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  Sade is like, Jeremy's my boyfriend.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  And it's good to do it in a public space, too, because that kind of reduces the reaction because now your parents have to pick between seeming normal in, in public and also getting whatever they need to get out. You know what I'm saying? So that was strategic. Still not a good plan, but I, I respect, I respect how she did this.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  You and Sade are actually on the same page because this is exactly why she chose to break the news like this. She has never really seen her mom lose it in public until that day. Uh, Anuli pops off all the way from SFO to Palo Alto. Anuli is beseeching the heavens. She is asking what she did to deserve such a disobedient daughter.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Yep, yeah, familiar.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Luckily or unluckily, depending on how you think about it, Anuli largely does this in Yoruba, which Jeremy obviously does not understand and which Sade is like forty percent fluent in. So they can't really understand what exactly is going on. But how in love would you have to be to try to salvage this situation?

• 23:58Speaker 01

  You kind of have to let your mom go off and it's just sort of like, um, exposure therapy. You know what I mean?

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Like.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Now that you like detonated the news, you know, you ripped the Band-Aid off. You know, we're just doing all these metaphors for what is essentially like a catatonic situation. You kind of just have to move forward and level set with your mom, parents. Keep Jeremy around. Jeremy has to keep coming around. He has to be sort of an immovable force. And now you and Jeremy can never break up.

• 24:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, when I was reading the story, this was the moment where I thought things were really gonna go sideways. But somehow Jeremy actually manages to charm Anouli over the course of graduation weekend. Like whatever Anouli wants, Jeremy is down to get. She wants the ice cold Coke at 10pm the night before graduation. Jeremy's driving to the nearest 7-Eleven, no complaints. Like Anouli needs help cooking the jollof rice. Jeremy is chopping the garlic and the peppers and never not once complaining about the spice level, even if he is visibly turning red and sweating profusely. Like by the time it's time for Anouli to head home to Houston, she's asking when she can start planning the wedding.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  Anouli is like, if you two are going to insist on living in sin, the least you can do is give me a timeline for when this sin will be rectified. Now to me, this feels like a huge win. Like we entered the situation with things being very scary and now Anouli is basically on board. But to Shadé and Jeremy, this is in fact another problem because one of the many things they have bonded over is that neither of them actually care about getting married.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  Well, remember Jeremy is a sexuality and gender studies major. He's trying to excise as much patriarchal tradition from his life as possible. And Jeremy's hippie parents had never gotten married. They told him it was an outdated institution and that people who spent thousands of dollars on a wedding were brainwashed. And Shadé wouldn't necessarily take it that far either. She has grown up going to Nigerian weddings, which are very lavish and usually days long. But this also happens to be the exact opposite of what Shadé would pick for herself if she had to get married. Like she would do a small intimate affair, which Anouli would never accept. So it is easier to just never get married from Shadé's perspective.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  It's just like, it's too relatable. It's too relatable.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  Well, since it's so relatable, how many years do you think you could put off your parents badgering you about marriage before you caved?

• 26:25Speaker 01

  I think that it's really important for immigrant children to reprogram their parents and so to never cave. But I could put it like to everything my mother says, so I think it's incredible. Rachel's like, you are bullshit. And I am. And I am. My parents like didn't want me to move out and then I moved out and every day my mom asked me to move back in. I haven't lived at home in 10 years and every day she's like, buddy, moving back. So you can hold them off for a long time. Now, I don't know about Shadi's mom. She seems scary. So, yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, I was also laughing because I have not been tested in this manner yet and I would like to think that I could hold strong. But as you know, I'm really bad at disappointing people. So, actually.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  You owe me both, sister. You owe me both.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  It helps Shadi that she immediately enters a PhD program. And for a long time, she can say she's just too busy studying to plan a wedding.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  I don't know how old Shadi is, but if she's like 25, I think she could have five years. But if she hits 30 without a ring, you start getting comments that are a little bit more pointed.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  Um, you gave five years. It takes about three years into Shadi's PhD before things kind of start popping off. And they pop off because a newly's mother, Shadi's grandmother passes. And the funeral coincides with Shadi's finals, so she's not able to make the trip to Nigeria work on such short notice. As soon as the newly is backstage side, she is calling Shadi every other day, talking about how everyone back home kept asking her why her eldest daughter wouldn't get married and how sad it was that her mother had not lived to see her first grandchild get married. And would Shadi please hurry up and get married before someone else died?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  This is the thing about our cultures and we have to free ourselves, like as a people, you know, like, you know, I'm speaking to my West Africans. Like, the social pressures of marriage, of birth, of death, it's unwieldy. I know that a large part of my mother's pressure Is like she wants something to tell her church friends and I get it.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, so Shadé is in a similar mind frame. She's like, I feel like my mom just wants to give her relatives something to see, something to be able to hold in their hands. So she decides to compromise. The one year anniversary of her grandmother's passing coincides with her next spring break. So she proposes to her mother, what if they all took a trip to Nigeria? Shadé, her parents, her siblings and Jeremy. They could do something to honor her grandmother on the one year anniversary. Everyone in the extended family could meet Jeremy and see how committed they were, even without this traditional thing of marriage. And Jeremy would get to visit Nigeria for the first time. It's like killing three birds with one stone.

• 29:20Speaker 02

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• 29:56Speaker 00

  Anoule actually loves this plan. Anoule loves this plan so much that she actually offers to plan the whole trip. She books the flights. She makes the itinerary. She even asked Shadé for her and Jeremy's measurements because obviously they would need custom clothing for the memorial service because something to honor Shadé's grandmother has somehow turned into a whole memorial service that seemingly everyone Anoule knows in Nigeria is invited to.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Funerals are basically parties. They're social events, gatherings.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Shadé is a little bit annoyed that a huge portion of this trip that she thought of has been co-opted because she hasn't been to Nigeria since she was in middle school. And now most of the 10 day trip is accounted for. They're going to fly into Lagos, spend a couple of days in the city with family, and then travel to Anoule's hometown, which is a small village about 45 minutes out of the city. So all in all, Shadé would have like 24 hours to herself and eight of them she would presumably be sleeping. Any concerns so far?

• 30:54Speaker 01

  You know, I'm not hearing much about Shadi's family life, but I know that if I had to spend, and I love my family, for the record.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  On the record.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  On the record. But if I had to spend ten days with extended family in the village, I'm not feeling good about this. But again, and you know, Shadi's mom has surprised me a lot throughout the story, and so I'm hoping I'm gonna hold on to that.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  You hold on to that. The day of the trip comes, after over twenty hours of travel, Shadi and Jeremy land in Lagos. They barely have time to set their bags down in a cousin's spare room before they have to get ready for the welcome party that is scheduled for the first night. This was the first event that a newly had custom clothing made for. The dress code is cocktail attire. Everyone is dressed in their finest. There is enough food to feed an army. The dancing starts almost immediately. And this is the first time Shadi has seen a lot of her family since she was like twelve. So it is all a bit overwhelming, along with the fact that everyone is staring at Jeremy. And Shadi obviously knows that Lagos is a very cosmopolitan city, but in that moment, it feels like Jeremy is the only white person for miles.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  And the thing is, he's handling it pretty well. He's doing his very best not to blush too much under all the scrutiny. He's learning how to dance with his hips and not his shoulders.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  It's all very surreal.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  As is the fact that people keep handing gifts to Shadi and Jeremy.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Wait a minute. I'm sorry, Rachel, keep going.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  I just had like a vision, you know? And I won't say it, but you you keep going.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  Well, the first time it happened, Shadi just figures that it's particularly thoughtful relative. Again, she hasn't seen these people in decades. But by the third gift, Shadi is like, what the fuck is going on?

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Wait, and so a newly planned this. And I'm sure she didn't run anything by Shadi or Jeremy.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  No, of course not.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Y'all don't know what you're attending. You don't know what you're attending. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, you don't know what your mother has told these people.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Well, Shadi tries to find her mom, who's too busy arguing with the vendor about something with the food, to talk to Shadi about the gifts. So over her shoulder, Nulie is like, well, no one has seen you in years since you couldn't come back for the funeral for my one and only mother.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Right, gaslight her. That's incredible. Gaslight your daughter. I'm with you, Shadi.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Sade is like, Mom, come on, you know why I couldn't come. And Annelie's like, of course, I'm just explaining, don't be so sensitive. And Annelie's like, these are belated gifts for graduation. You would have received them earlier if you'd been able to make time in your busy schedule. Just set them aside and we'll open them up back in the States.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Oh, so we can't open them up right now. Interesting. That is suspicious.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  You're Sade.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  I'm, yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  What do you do?

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Okay, this reminds me of like when I graduated from college and my parents were like, oh, we're gonna take this trip to Ghana. And I was like, I don't have a job, so like, I don't want to leave the States without a job. But really it was because I was really paranoid that my mom was gonna like take me to Ghana and like steal my passport and like keep me there. Okay, and so I just want you to know the level of paranoia I have in my head. And so if me, I'm Sade, I'm thinking that like I'm actually secretly getting married this weekend without my permission, without Jeremy's permission. Because this isn't about me, this is about my mother. So that's what I'm thinking. So that's, the paranoia is taking root. Okay, so now I'm thinking of an escape plan.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Well, remember, Sade is our beautiful, beautiful ostrich. So she's like, you know what? My mom is probably right. My family is just proud of me, and why wouldn't they be? Sade graduated from Stanford, she's getting her PhD, you know?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but let's use those critical thinking skills from Stanford, Sade. Come on now.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Well, the thing is, Sade is just trying to get through the night. Because the next day is her free day, and it'll be her first time in Lagos without parental supervision. So this is what Sade is thinking about, when halfway through the night Jeremy pulls her aside. And Jeremy's like, listen, everyone is so nice. The food is incredible. But then he's like, also, no one's like really talking to me? Like, I'll try to have a conversation and they'll just like hug me and then leave? Also, what's up with the gifts? Sade is like, don't worry, don't worry, it's the first night, they're probably just warming up to you. And then she's like, I don't want to think about the gifts, let's just please go to the beach tomorrow. Sade is like, I need to be by the ocean with a drink in my hand to get through the rest of this trip. And the thing is, the next day does end up being the highlight of the whole trip.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Sade and Jeremy go to the beach, they explore the city. It's so magical that they're like, we have to come back without telling anyone in the family that we are here. Well, how are you feeling so far? Are you anticipating any problems?

• 35:51Speaker 01

  I'm still stressed, Rachel. I've been stressed since the airport. I feel like I've communicated this. Like, that stress hasn't left me. I'm literally racking my brain. Like, I'm trying to be like, figure out Anouli right now. Like, in my notes, I have like, just three question marks by her name. She's such a wild card. I'm like, actually, this isn't a story about Sade. This is a story about Anouli. Like, that's who I'm interested in. I'm, yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  Well, Sade, again, kind of in a summer place. She had told Jeremy not to worry about the gifts. But they had made Sade just like a little bit suspicious. So she is on high alert when she and Anouli and Jeremy and her family get to the village. And the thing is, Sade is almost immediately vindicated because as soon as they roll into town, she and Jeremy are immediately separated and made to sleep in different houses. When Sade confronts her mother about this, Anouli is like, you can live in sin in the city. Lord knows what goes on there. But here, in the place where my mother is buried, why don't I just drive you to her grave so you can spit on it?

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. Um, yeah, yeah. Wow, West African mothers. I, I love them so much. They, they need to be studied. You know, some of our greatest artists, um, both in terms of the narrative and the emotional manipulation. I love it.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, there is not much Sade feels like she can say to this.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, your mom just said, go spit on your grandmother's grave. Like, yikes.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  So Sade is still on high alert, which she does end up feeling just a little bit bad about. Because on their second day in Anouli's hometown, Anouli does actually drive her and Jeremy to her mother's grave so that Sade can give her proper respect. As Sade places flowers on her grandmother's grave, Anouli is overcome by emotion. Like, she almost faints from grief. Sade is like, you know what? Grief isn't linear. I should go easy on her. And the thing is, it ends up being a really lovely day. Anouli gives Sade and Jeremy a whole tour of her hometown. She shows them her mother's house and where she went to school. And the day goes so well that when Anouli tells Sade that the memorial service the next day will be followed by a large reception for the entire extended family, Sade doesn't even really ask any questions.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  In fact, the only question Sade asks is when Anouli tells her that she will need to dress in the formal Nigerian garments that Anouli had custom made for her for the memorial service. Sade has not even seen these garments yet, but the only question to ask Anouli is, what about Jeremy? What is he, what's he wearing? He brought jeans.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  Anouli is like, don't worry about him. He'll be getting ready with the rest of the men. They'll make sure he's properly attired.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Okay, a new thought just came into my head. What if this is their engagement party? I'm still like, I'm just like, as you can see, I'm still set on this being some form of manipulation. But yeah, I just want you to know where I'm at right now. I thought wedding, but maybe I should have gone one step before.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Would you have follow up questions here?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I'm asking, how big is this reception? What does the garment look like? What am I wearing? What are you wearing? What's the family wearing? Are we matching? Are we complimenting? Is it white?

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Sade is wondering if she should be asking more questions, especially when she does finally see the clothes that Anouli had made for her, which are far fancier than Sade had anticipated. Like, they're made from this luxurious white and gold fabric.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  White and gold.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  It's elaborately beaded. It matches Anouli's garments, which are also white and gold with coral accents. Sade's aunts and girl cousins are also dressed to the nines, but when Sade joins them to get her hair and makeup done, she sees that no one else is wearing white and gold, just her and Anouli. Anouli has an explanation for this, though. Anouli and her sisters had all coordinated so that everyone wore the same colors as their kids. And Sade has so many cousins that she is actually not entirely sure which aunt is whose mom. So she's like, it could be true. I don't know who belongs to who here.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Anouli has a career, I think, as a federal agent. And we should, we should revisit that at the end of the story.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Sade is starting to get a sort of uneasy feeling. Should Sade do anything about this uneasy feeling? Is there anything she can do?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Asking mom direct questions, like, is this an engagement party? Are people expecting me to be betrothed? Am I secretly getting married? Just like, kind of hit, you know, get the paranoid, my paranoid thoughts out the way. And see what answers come from those really specific and direct questions.

• 40:38Speaker 00

  I started this episode by saying you always ask the best questions.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  Chade's uneasy feeling only increases when she sees the venue for the memorial service. It is a massive great hall, like it is objectively the biggest building in the whole village. It's been decked out with massive floral arrangements and lots of gold accents. And as Anouli assures Chade into the great hall, Chade can't help noticing that the vibe does not seem all that sad. Like, yeah, her grandmother had died a whole year ago, time heals all wounds. But the atmosphere in the venue was downright joyous. When Chade arrives with her mom and aunts and cousins, there's music playing, there's champagne flowing.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Champagne, wow. And you know, this is when I start asking the vendors questions. If I'm not getting a direct answer from my family, okay? If someone out there holding the champagne, I'm gonna be like, hey, like, just a quick question, like, what were you hired for? Like, what event? You know what I mean? Like, you have to kind of get into your investigative journalism bag and start doing some recon, okay?

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Well, it is as Chade is getting hustled into a side room to put the finishing touches on her makeup that she sees Jeremy for the first time since the previous day. He is surrounded by Chade's two brothers and her dad and her uncles and male cousins. He is wearing an agbada and looking just as confused as Chade feels. And it is at this moment that Chade decides, I need to pull my head out of the sand.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Let's go. That's right, baby girl.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  They're finishing their makeup and Chade is like, Mom, what the fuck is going on? This does not feel like a memorial service, why is everyone so happy? And Anouli, she rolls her eyes to the heavens and she's like, Lord, please grant my ungrateful daughter some tact and good sense, especially on a day like today that marks a year since my mother left this earthly realm. Is Chade not thinking about any of that? Did she bump her head on the way over? Oh, also, Anouli says, don't forget, the entire memorial service is gonna be in Europe.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you see, and this is why you have to ask direct questions. The open-ended what's going on doesn't really work because that, there leaves too much room for deflection. Okay, whatever you're suspicious of, ah, it's fine, it's fine. I sound like a broken record, please, carry on.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  What option do you think Shadé has here, if any?

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Again, I'm just feeling like the window is closing, okay, for escape. Like, one thing about me is that sometimes I end up in a situation and I'm sort of just like, I guess this is my fate now. And that's not great. You know, you want to be someone who's like acting in the moment, who feels like at any single point you can turn around. But it it just feels like she's really in deep. Um, now I'm kind of like, we have to see this play out.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Gotta see it through.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Now we have to see it through. The fact that the whole ceremony is gonna be in Yoruba is very wild. Um, yeah, cuz and and we said, what, Shadé is like forty percent good at at Yoruba? I mean, you could be legally bound to something you don't know about. I don't know. Giving village wedding, command or engagement. I'm still on that, but yeah.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Well, Anouli then insists as her mother's first granddaughter, Shadé enters the hall very last.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Shadé enters the hall very last. I cannot.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  This is the last straw for Shadé. And she's like, I am not doing anything until you tell me the truth. This is not a memorial service, is it? Because at this point, Shadé can see her aunts and cousins starting their procession through the hall.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  They're lying. Shadé, I can't believe it took you this long, but it's fine. Like, uh, yeah, wow, okay.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  The hall is filled with people, like possibly everyone in Anouli's hometown has shown up. A song starts playing that Shadé has only heard in one specific context. She turns to Anouli and is like, Mom, you cannot do this to me. Because the song that is playing is distinctively bridal.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, girl. I mean, at this point, you're looking to your mom, but like, you're in it. Like, we should have been asking these questions earlier. You, we should have, before you got to the village, you should have just absconded. I don't know what to tell you, like.

• 45:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, as you correctly guessed, what Anouli has spent months planning is not a memorial service for her. Late mother, but a wedding for her stubborn daughter. She has somehow conned her entire family into colluding with her by telling them that Shade and Jeremy obviously knew and consented to what was going on. But Jeremy didn't like being the center of attention, so everyone needed to be as discreet as possible, which is why no one was really talking.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Wow. Oh, my God.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  Shade is like, Mom, what have you done? And Anouali says, I'm so sorry to have tricked you. But then she's like, you're not gonna make a fool of your mother, are you? Everyone is here.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I think you have to break out into song.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  I think you and Jeremy have to start singing. And I think you just, yeah, you just sort of do some, just something, I don't know. I'm panicking.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  Are you gonna make a fool of your mother?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Me personally, no. And, and, and I'm, and you know what? This story is making me realize like, I'm still oppressed. I guess I'm going along with it. But the right answer, the more courageous answer is to break out into song and just sort of stun people. And then tap dance your way out.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Start running. Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 00

  Shade really considers it. She really does consider having her runaway bride moment.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Speaker 00

  But she can see Jeremy waiting for her at the altar and she's like, I can't abandon him.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Girl, what?

• 46:43Speaker 00

  And for those who don't know, there is a Nigerian wedding custom where guests spray the happy couple with money and the bride does not smile until she is satisfied with what she's gotten. So in this moment, Shade turns to her mother. And she's like, tonight, when your entire family is showering us with money, I will stand there unsmiling until all your brothers are poor.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Okay, wow, this just really took a turn. And I mean, the other thing I'm thinking, again, just trying to get my girl Shade out of this, like, how legally binding is this union if it's in the village?

• 47:14Speaker 00

  That's a great question. Anouali is like, whatever you want, my sweetest daughter. And then she basically shoves Shade down the aisle.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Poor, sweet Jeremy has just been waiting at the altar with the officiant who starts speaking in Yoruba once Shadé joins them.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  I'm also like, is Jeremy asking any questions? I'm sorry, not like, I know not too much on Mark, but like,

• 47:39Speaker 01

  are you concerned?

• 47:42Speaker 00

  Jeremy whispers to Shadé, "You look beautiful." And then he's like, "Is this a wedding?"

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Shadé's like, "I am so sorry, my mom is crazy." And Jeremy's like, "We can leave right now if you want." Like, just say the word.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Right, that's the first smart thing you said, Jeremy. And maybe the first thing you said, "Oh, sorry." She's been silenced.

• 48:08Speaker 00

  And again, Shadé does consider it. But then she's like, "This probably isn't even valid in the United States, right?" And from the altar, Shadé can see how happy her whole family looks, including a newly who is like openly weeping at this point.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Okay, so now she's okay with lying? Like, it's just like, you should have kept Jeremy a secret. Okay, it's fine, I'm judging Shadé, but it's because I care.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  And so Shadé is like, "We're already here. Let's, let's just go with it and we can figure this out once it's over." And so they do. Jeremy and Shadé get married. The wedding ceremony ends and the party begins. And listen, no one has ever accused Nigerians of not knowing how to party. So it is a pretty fucking incredible party. Incredible enough that Shadé doesn't even get a chance to talk to her husband Jeremy until later that night. Because now that they're married, they're officially allowed to sleep in the same room.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  A win is a win.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  And the thing is, they very much are married because sometime during the party, Jeremy had had a chance to look up whether weddings performed in Nigeria were legally valid in the US. And they are, turns out.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  When Shadé finds this out, she starts packing. She's like, "I cannot be in the presence of my mother right now, we have to leave tonight."

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  And Jeremy's like, "That is so fair." But then Jeremy's like, "I don't know, I kind of had a lot of fun tonight." And we made a lot of money, your cousins are teaching me how to dance.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Money is crazy.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  Jeremy's like, "We've already been married against our will, what is the worst that could possibly happen now?"

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Okay, I mean, famous last words, but sure.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Shadé's like, "You know what?" It's not like my mother can get pregnant on our behalf. Maybe you're right. Maybe we can just finish out the rest of the trip. I want to ask, how long would it take for you to forgive your mother for doing something like this?

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Okay, wow. I mean, forgiveness is such an interesting concept, right? Especially between mothers and daughters. And like, that's my interest. Like, I'm always talking about mothers and daughters.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Like, because, you know, I love books about mothers and daughters, TV shows about mothers and daughters. I mean, is Shadé really even mad? Like, that's my question. It's really not giving that. And so maybe it won't take her that long to forgive.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  You guys don't see my quotes. I'm around forgive.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  But I heard them.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  I wouldn't be in this situation. I'm gonna be, I wouldn't be in this situation because I would have left that first night in Lagos because I would have been suspicious. And so I don't know how to answer this question because it just really wouldn't be me.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  That is so real. You did say at one point that you would have gotten married.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  I would like to say. Like twenty minutes ago, you did say.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  I did say I'd do it for the bit. Okay, so let's say I am in this situation and I did it for the bit.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  I'm just so, maybe like something's happening to me right now, or I'm so overcome, I'm so impressed by Anoule that I can't even really be mad. I'm just like, this is incredibly clever. And if I'm Shadé, this is probably not the first time my mother has betrayed me in some really deep traumatic way. So it's just kind of adding it to the list of things I'm talking to my therapist about when I get back to the States.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. It does take Shadé a while. Like, she and her mom basically do not speak for the rest of the trip.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  Shadé goes no contact for four months. And then Anoule apologizes after four months of no contact. Anoule is like, your grandmother wanted so badly to see you married. And I just, I went a little crazy after she died. She's like, I'm so sorry to have deceived you, but you've granted your mother her one most treasured wish, and I promise I'll never ask for anything again.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Right, until she starts asking for a kid. But Anoule got what she wanted so she can apologize. Yeah, nice. I put apologies in air quotes for those who can't see.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Sade is like, I'm gonna remember you said that. And then she makes a newly promise to never mention this in front of Jeremy's parents. She's like, to them, we're not married. And then Sade makes a promise to herself to never go on another trip planned by her mother. As you correctly guessed, a few years after the wedding, a newly does start asking when Sade and Jeremy are gonna have kids. And all Sade has to say is, I'm sure you're not asking for anything else, are you, Mom? And a newly backs off for a couple of weeks, and then she starts again.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Wow, I, I'm thinking about their friends. I'm thinking about Sade and Jeremy's friends, like, they didn't come to the wedding. I forgot about Jeremy's parents, low key, so that was a good reminder. I'm thinking about Sade's little brother's useless, like, where are they in this?

• 52:39Speaker 00

  As a sister of a little brother, they really are.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  That's the end of our story, love ya.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  Rachel, this, this actually triggered me. I got ahead of myself, like, I started to feel things. It's like my survival instincts came into play, you know what I mean? Fight or flight, like, it really activated my fight or flight. Uh, yeah, Sade, um, babes, wherever you are, I'm, I'm gonna need you to ask different questions.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at [email protected], or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 gossip. If you love this podcast and wanna support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip. You can follow me on all social media at HeyDnA, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Ciara Spragley-Ritz and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gossip. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Kelsey McKinney and Defector's supervising producer Alex Su-Jean Loughlin. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. Dan McCleod runs our merch store, which you can find at normogossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandy Jensen, David Raw, Catherine Shue, Serena Imbler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this from me.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  Radiotopia.

• 54:33Speaker 04

  From PRX.