The Problem Is Certain Death with Allegra Frank

We brought Allegra Frank some historical gossip involving a party full of mountain climbers, a long rope, and a bad idea. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page:https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LYd_jOBQ62bdp-kPQFBjUENCGDUe0A2Ve-OGSL_YdFg/edit?usp=sharing. Follow the show on Instagram@normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae https://www.instagram.com/heyydnae/?hl=en) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae https://www.instagram.com/seera_sharae/?hl=en) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member ofRadiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:06Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hansen. And in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Happy New Year, y'all. I hope your holidays were full of light and laughter, especially since 2026 is already off to an eventful start, to say the least, which I know means y'all desperately need some gossip in your lives. And today's story is actually one of my absolute favorites. Before we get into it, just a little bit of housekeeping today, a light little bit, mostly just a heads up that now that our break is over, we are officially over halfway through this season of Normal Gossip, which

• 0:49Speaker 00

  has got four more episodes in it, including this one. That makes today's episode the seventh of the season, which is famously a lucky number. And I feel especially lucky today because my guest is one of my dearest friends, Allegra Frank. Allegra and I go way back. We used to work at Slate together. For a while, she was an editor on my old show, I See Why Am I, where some of y'all might have heard us chop it up together. Currently, Allegra is a culture editor for The Atlantic, but she has written and edited for Vox, Polygon, The Daily Beast, and The New York Times. Allegra, hello. Thank you so much for joining me. Hi, Rachel. I'm so excited. What a dream. We have not recorded together in a hot minute. I feel like I'm coming home.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  It's like a hot hour, girl. It's been a hot hour. Hot hour, hot year, hot month. Hot month. So long. So long. I'm so excited, truly. Same. Even though we haven't recorded in a while, we do talk, I would say, pretty regularly, which means that I know that you are a champion of gossip. Every time I see you, I feel like you tell me something that I think about for a month. So I'm so excited to know the answer to this question, which is, what is your relationship to gossip? Have you always been this way?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, or fortunately, yes. I mean, I think it's because like, we're writers and we're journalists.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  So it's like, I'm sussing out the facts.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  I'm figuring out the players. I'm packaging it to tell the world. And yes, I love a little mess. But those are the best stories. It's really just in service of the plot of my life.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  You're right. This is actually a professional development thing that we're doing right now.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Yes. This is how we got these jobs, girl, from our gossip days.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  Speaking of gossip, a little birdie told me that you have some gossip for me. And again, I know you're a champion gossip smith. So I'm ready.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Okay, this one, in the interest of protecting all of my friendships, we're doing a throwback gossip.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  This is like where it all starts, Rachel. You're getting a little origin story gossip here. So when I was in eighth grade, do you remember Zanga? Were you a Zanga girl?

• 3:09Speaker 00

  I was not.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Okay, so it was like, sort of live journal-esque, like you could do little personal blogs, but you would follow people and you could comment. So it was a little social like that. And I had a Zanga and I would use it to blog about my day, which was not particularly exciting. But because it was not particularly exciting, I would often draw on things that other people were doing. So I was kind of chronicling what was going on in my grade secretly, online, sort of gossip girl-esque.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I was like, oh, so you're Lady Whistle Down of your eighth grade class?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was giving baby whistle down. And, and because I was like, very unpopular, like, no, it's not like anybody was really following this, I thought. And it was just like for a couple of my friends and I would use names because I was like, nobody's reading this except my friends and they need to know. And I would be like, in eighth period Spanish class taught by, you know, Miss Senora Smith. Uh, Bob would say this today, like being very explicit and like going down the line of like, here's where I was at this time. Here's where I was at this time. And it was like very detailed, but I didn't think much of it. And then one day I'm like in class and I see people

• 4:29Speaker 01

  whispering and looking at me and usually people don't look at me because I'm like in the back. I never spoke. I was just like Allegra will remember this and then putting it on my zanga later. And then I was like, that's so weird. And then between a period. So after that class, my friend, my best friend, one of my five zanga readers was like, girl, I was just in class and people came up to me and were asking me about your zanga, thinking it was my zanga because we had very similar days, my best friend and I.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  And I was using everybody else's name except my own. I was being a little bit protective of me and my friends. Um, so they thought it was my friend and they were like, hey, we found your blog because I had used someone's full name. There was this kid, we'll call him Chris. And that's a, he was a common name, right?

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  So I had to differentiate that this was not Chris A I was talking about. This was Chris B I was talking about one day. So instead of saying Chris B, I used his full last name. And one day, Chris B Googled himself and found my blog and he spread it all over the school because he was popular. My school's not that big. And so all these people were reading it. My friend in her class saw people on the zanga, reading it in class, being like, oh my God, this is creepy. Why was this person writing about the joke I made? Why was this person saying they saw me in the cafeteria? What is this? Like everyone discovering my

• 5:59Speaker 01

  little baby gossip girl blog. And then they turned and they saw my friend and they were like, this sounds a lot like you. And like your schedule, was this you? And my friend was like, I didn't do this at all. I had nothing to do with this, but I don't want to tell you who it was because I'm not going to blow up my friend's fault, but I'm not taking the fall. And she told me this and I was like, but low key, what if you took the fall?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Low key, what if you just kind of rolled with it?

• 6:31Speaker 00

  Allegra, you said, what if you fell upon the sword for me?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Like, I would do it for you, she said, lying, you know? Like,

• 6:42Speaker 00

  lying?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  She said, lying, like, I was not about to take ownership because nobody paid attention to me. I was so unpopular. My friend also was unpopular, but like a little slightly less so. She could take the hit. I couldn't take a hit. So obviously it was quite fraught. So, you know, fast forward today, we are still best friends. We did weather the storm. But in her recollection, I went on Gaia Online, which was a sort of role playing website. You had an avatar. It was, a lot of people would get on there and be very horny, but I wasn't doing that. I was just going on the forums and posting a lot. She said, lying.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  And I went on Gaia Online, which again, my friend was on and would see. And I went on and I was like, telling them about this story. I made a thread about this on Gaia. And I was like, hey, this happened. My friend doesn't want to take the blame, but I kind of think she should. And I don't even know if we should be friends anymore, if she doesn't want to take the blame. And I was posting this on Gaia Online. I did not learn my lesson that I should not be airing out my laundry.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  You went from making one mistake to making the exact same mistake in a different forum.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  So it's like, one thing was like these kids who I didn't really like that much, seeing that I was blogging about their lunch. And that one, another thing is my best friend seeing that I'm calling her out on Gaia Online. After she saw that, I was like, okay, I need to stop telling the internet things. I gotta stop.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Okay. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. I won't be fooling anyone three times.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  It was shame on me both times.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  And it was, and it was. I feel comfortable saying that. Allegra, that's so fucking funny.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  And here's the thing, Rachel, I'm here and I'm still gossiping. What did I learn? I just don't put it on the internet now.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  What you learned is what I am always championing on this podcast, which is operational security.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. I learned this at age 13, in eighth grade. Honestly, thank you to Chris S. for blowing up my spot so that I would rewrite my course in history.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Wait, did they ever find out it was you?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  They never found out. The wrong gossip girl was what went down in our, you know, the annals of our school history. They never found out. I think one person did, but he didn't tell anybody else because he was like, I think it's you. I'm pretty sure it's you. And I wasn't gonna admit it. So I was like, I don't know. It's crazy. No one else thinks it's me. That's so weird that you think it's me. No one else thinks that at all.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  God. The funniest thing about middle school drama is that there's no logic to the investigation because there are clearly two options for who could have done this. And the fact that you weren't mentioned on this blog at all, it's giving like the Mean Girls Burn Book, where it's like, obviously it's her.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  It was like giving Mean Girls Burn Book and also a little bit the Tim Robinson sketch, where it's like, I'm wearing a hot dog costume, guys. And I'm saying, who could have done this?

• 9:57Speaker 00

  We're all looking for the guy who did this.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  We're all looking for the guy who did this. Certainly not me.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  And they never found them. They never found them.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Until today. Someone's gonna be listening to this podcast and they're gonna have a new conclusion to their eighth grade drama.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. You know what? You're right. What did I learn? I'm blowing up my own spot. This is what I deserve. I knew. I didn't even think about that. Wow.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  God, 19 years later, here we are. Didn't learn a damn thing.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Full circle. But yes, now you get to know. I told you and thus the world.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Allegra, I'm truly so honored. Um, I love that you brought the word zanga onto this podcast and Gaia Online. I don't know if those have been uttered in the normal gossip universe, and I'm sure some of our listeners will be like pointing at the metaphorical screen like Leonardo DiCaprio in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, hearing the word zanga in the year 2026.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  I hope the people feel seen. I'm here to represent, I am one of you. We are the Zangans.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for that lore drop, which actually coincides perfectly with our gossip today. Are you ready?

• 11:18Speaker 01

  I'm so ready. I feel owed.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kind of just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 12:10Speaker 00

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• 12:37Speaker 00

  I'm going to admit something embarrassing. I know, shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for an undisclosed amount of months, long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow. They deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp. And I had a vision in mind, Wayfair. They had exactly what I need, which is one of those library style lights with like the green lampshade and little pull cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one. And now I have one because of course Wayfair had it.

• 13:20Speaker 00

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• 13:39Speaker 02

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• 13:41Speaker 03

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• 14:13Speaker 00

  The gossip I have for you today is historical, vintage, if you will. It takes place in the 1970s in Sydney, Australia. Personally, historical gossip is my favorite kind of gossip. Like, tell me about the wild shit your grandparents did. I want to know what Thomas Cromwell was getting into. But what about you? Do you have a preference for historical or contemporary gossip? Do you know any lore about your grandparents?

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Ooh, no, I do like historical gossip. Like, my parents, I have some good gossip about them. And that's fun. So I like gossip of all eras, really. Parent gossip, grandparent gossip, uncle gossip, aunt gossip, up and down the chain.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  No, literally, give me up and down that family tree. Exactly.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Well, like I said, today's story takes place in the 1970s in Sydney, Australia. And our friend of a friend today is named Jono. The most important thing to know about Jono is that he is very, very into mountaineering. And you might be asking, what is mountaineering? If you were asking this question, I also have this question. And according to the American Alpine Institute, which is a real thing, mountaineering is the broad art of ascending mountains using a mix of hiking, snow travel, glacier navigation, and sometimes technical climbing.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Basically, mountain climbing. Anyway, Jono would actually go on to become sort of a low-key legend in the Australian climbing community. Like, he's the kind of guy who isn't a household name to normal people, but he is friends with all the guys who end up in the mountaineering history books. Yes, I said, "mountaineering history books." They do exist. Now, at the time of our story, Jono is in his early to mid twenties. And even then, his entire life revolves around climbing shit. Technically, he has a day job, but it is all to fund the next big climb. I could describe Jono's vibe, but we have actually got a photo of Jono and his climbing friends that I'm gonna show you.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Okay. Oh, my God.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Now, I'm allowed to show you this photo, but not the audience. So I need you to describe, in as much detail as possible, the vibes of the boys in this photo.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Okay. The first thought I had was very thick thighs.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  It's three thick-thighed men in cat-length socks. Two of them are shirtless and fairly buff. They're all fairly buff, I think. All three of them have, I want to say short shorts, but one of them looks like he's wearing a straight-up diaper. It's giving diaper. Despite giving diaper, he is still hot. And they're sitting like, what is this, like a trailer or something?

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Who knows? They're outside. They're in the wilderness.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  They're outside in the wilderness. And they're guys being bros, I guess, but they're like chilling. It's giving a little bit Friends to Lovers, maybe? It could be. Maybe I'm projecting.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I can see friends to lovers energy. But yeah, it's three dudes, thick thighs, dudes sitting in next to no clothing, except for one in the middle who has a shirt.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  Wow, that was a perfect description. So in this photo is Jono, his friend Big Rob, and another guy who is not important to this story.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Drag.

• 17:59Speaker 00

  This story, which begins when what feels like the entire Australian climbing community descends upon Sydney, Australia. An expedition has just returned from climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, and everyone is celebrating. Now, something to know about Jono and Big Rob is that despite the fact that they are objectively hot in a feral outdoors, he is he housebroken kind of way.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Exactly that.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  Despite this fact, they are both also very single. And that is because at this time in their lives, they were, and this is a direct quote from our friend of a friend, awkward and utterly useless at talking to women.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  I see that. I can see that quite, quite easily, to be honest.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Right, right. So the vibe of this crew is basically men with really good thighs in really short shorts who are really bad at talking to women.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Now, considering the thighs and the shorts, how much would you say this little deficiency matters?

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Considering the thighs and the shorts. Well, as I said, it was giving friends to lovers to me.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  I don't know how badly they're doing with or without the women, you know? So, but that said, that said, I mean, the thighs are doing a lot of the work. For me, they don't need to talk.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  It's true, the thighs are doing the talking.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Like, I'm fine. I'm so fine if they don't know how to talk to me.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  So, this is all really important because today's story takes place at a party, specifically the after-party for the celebration of this Kilimanjaro expedition. To be clear, our boys, Jono and Big Rob, did not climb Kilimanjaro, at least not at this point in their lives. But some of their buddies did, which I'm told is an event that you celebrate in the mountaineering community. So, at this party are Jono, Big Rob, and many other members of the Australian climbing community, including many single women. Now, we both live in Brooklyn and work in media. We have been at parties with awkward 20-something-year-old guys

• 20:32Speaker 00

  who may or may not yet be housebroken.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Every party, every party.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  How do these kinds of guys flirt?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  I feel like they are often talking about themselves, very confident, unduly so. And you are not getting a word in.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's because they don't know how to ask a question because they're so scared.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  They're too scared, like faux-confidence. And they will not let you talk because as soon as you say something, they're like, oh, shoot. I don't know what to say, and she's so much better than me that I ever will be.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Exactly. You have gotten the vibe perfectly. At the beginning of this party, Jono and Big Rob are just lurking in various corners, sort of like furtively looking over at the girls and mostly failing to talk to them. Until Big Rob spots the single coolest girl he has ever seen in his entire life. She has certainly got the most powerful thighs Big Rob has ever seen in his life.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  Along with some impressively tight bell bottoms, because it's the 70s. Her red hair is cut into a Ziggy Stardust-esque mullet.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Love.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  And "Starman" is Big Rob's favorite song.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. Perfect.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  So, Big Rob immediately makes a beeline over to this woman, just like shoving his way through the crowd. He joins a little circle of people she's talking to, and then he just freezes.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  This boy, like, I honestly feel a little bad.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, Big Rob just stands there, speechless, until the woman is like, uh, hello? I'm Beck.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  And this is the most beautiful name Big Rob has ever heard. So beautiful that he forgets his own name.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, Big Rob, come on, please. You're bungling it.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  So after a full five seconds of silence, Big Rob just gives a single nod and then runs away back to Jono, who has been watching this whole thing from across the room. Jono's like, ugh, not gonna lie, that was hard to watch.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Poor Big Rob. I mean, Jono's telling him straight, man.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  I know, and I think maybe now is a good time to give a little reminder that these men are regularly doing something called ice climbing, which is exactly what it sounds like, which is climbing an entirely frozen block of ice. Like, these men will ascend an entire block of ice instead of learning how to talk to women at parties.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Many such cases, many such cases.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  So, you have made a fool of yourself in front of someone you think is really hot. How do you go about salvaging the situation?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Just by jumping off the face of the earth.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Hello? Duh.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Just removing myself from the equation entirely. I mean, okay, I feel like, other than that extreme option, I feel like I would find a mutual. Like, I feel like I would find a way in through, like, a comfort friend.

• 24:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's smart. That's not what these boys do.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Of course not.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Jono is like, don't worry, man, the night is still young. And his first step to salvaging the situation is getting properly drunk because Big Rob just needs a little liquid courage. He was off his game because he was nervous.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, sure.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  So Jono and Big Rob commence to getting drunk on a truly incomprehensible amount of lager. They're having a great time. They're getting to know other people at the party, including the host, whose name is Locky Webb.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Of course it is. No, amazing, amazing work.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  They're trading war stories about like frostbite and exposure. They're making plans to climb shit together. It is a great time. The party carries on long enough that everyone is pleasantly drunk. And if I know anything about Australians, it is that their version of pleasantly drunk would have me passed out on the floor.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. So true.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  Which maybe helps explain how a little after midnight, the party starts to run low on alcohol. Now, there is a shop on the corner a few blocks down, so it would be easy to run down and go grab some more beer. So easy, in fact, Jono comes up with a better idea. An idea so good that it solves not just their lack of alcohol, but also Big Rob's earlier fumble with Beck.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  That's the perfect reaction because before I tell you the plan, what do you think the plan is?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Oh, God, I don't even want to say. To me, it involves something illegal. I don't

• 25:55Speaker 01

  I just think someone's gonna drink too much.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  We're already there, babe.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Already there. I don't know. I think someone's gonna just make even more of a fool of themselves. I don't know. I'm scared. I'm scared.

• 26:08Speaker 00

  Um, I want to be so honest with you. There is no universe in which I would have guessed the plan that Jono comes up with. But Jono is thinking on a grander scale than I am. To Jono, this is the perfect opportunity. In fact, maybe their only chance to so thoroughly impress all the ladies at the party that something as trivial as conversational skill will be rendered unnecessary.

• 26:40Speaker 03

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• 27:15Speaker 00

  Locky Web's apartment is on the top floor of a previously industrial neighborhood in Sydney. Like, think Williamsburg before it got gentrified. So, these apartments are big with high ceilings and giant windows looking out onto the street. Jono's plan is, instead of just using the stairs to get more alcohol, like a boring person, they should rappel, old-school style, out of the big industrial windows. No harness, just the climbing rope, down four stories to the street, and then go get the beer.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Oh my god. I should have guessed that. They're climbers. Oh my god. That's so dumb.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Um, I'm assuming that you see some problems with this plan. Could you tell me what problems you see with this plan?

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Um, four stories and a climbing rope.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  And no har- like, hello? The problem is certain death. And brain damage, if not.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  The problem is gravity and CTE.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yes. I guess it was the 70s, so what do they know?

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Um, it might not surprise you to hear that Big Rob is obsessed with this plan.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Obsessed?

• 28:37Speaker 00

  So obsessed that he's like, "I should be the one to go down," which Jono thinks is fair, considering they're gonna use Big Rob's climbing rope, which Big Rob, of course, brought with him to the party, because what is a party without climbing rope, you know?

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Oh my god, these men, truly choosing to climb instead of learning how to talk to a woman.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  No, literally, men will do so many things besides go to therapy.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Um, the party's host, Locky Webb, is also obsessed with this idea.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Locky, it's your place. They're gonna be blaming you. They didn't sign a waiver going in.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is where I should maybe reiterate here that everyone is plastered out of their minds at this point in the night. Um, which is maybe how Locky Webb comes up with the genius idea to wrap Big Rob's rope around the leg of the bed in the bedroom. And from there, our boys stretch the rope across the bedroom into the living room, which obviously gets everyone at the party's attention, including Bex.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  Our boys then open the big industrial window and dangle the rope down to see if it's long enough. It is.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:58Speaker 00

  As a test, Big Rob gives the rope a tug. And here's where I feel like it might be a good time to explain Big Rob's whole deal. You see, while our friend Jono is built like a gymnast, like very slight and muscled, Big Rob is, um,

• 30:16Speaker 00

  big.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Okay, so in the photo that you showed me, he was the burly guy in the shirt?

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Mm hmm, yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Okay, yes.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  He is 6'3" and 225 pounds.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  So when Big Rob gives the rope a tug, it pulls the bed a few inches across the room.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  It's not.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  This obviously poses a problem for Jono's plan.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, of course.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  But first, let me explain how Big Rob actually got his name. It might sound like it's because he's big, but it's actually because one time when Big Rob and Jono were 19 and he was known as just Rob, um, Rob had given Jono the last beer and their six pack. And Jono had said Rob had the biggest heart of any man in the world. And from that day, he was Big Rob.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  That's actually very sweet and also hilarious.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  I know, it's so cute.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  What that was is everybody was calling Big Rob Big Rob behind his back. And then Jono called him Big Rob and was like, uh, no, it's because your heart is big, not because we all think you're giant.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  That's crazy. A big heart.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  That's so crazy.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  And Jono's like, phew, okay. Secret safe. Don't worry, guys.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  Solved it.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Nailed that one. We're good.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  Correct, correct, correct. But back to the party, where some problems have arisen with this plan that Jono has had. And everyone at the party is now staring at Big Rob and Jono. So what options do you think our boys have here?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  I think that not going down the side of the building is not an option.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  Why would you say that?

• 32:07Speaker 01

  I think that protecting themselves and just staying inside is certainly not going to be an option because they've already done the work. That's even more embarrassing.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  Exactly. They've already started.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Right?

• 32:19Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  They've already started. I mean, Jono could go down, right?

• 32:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  He's lighter.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Or he could just risk it because that's cool. And I feel like that's what he did. Is that what he did?

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Well, luckily, our friend Jono is quick on his feet. He's like, ladies first, let's get as many people as possible on the bed as kind of counterbalance to Rob's weight.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Okay, that's smart. Insofar as any of this is smart.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  No, exactly. It's important to remember that this is a party full of people who risk hypothermia for fun.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  And also, everyone is drunk. So about a dozen people jump onto the bed, including none other than Beck.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. So stakes are really high now. She's there. She's helping.

• 33:12Speaker 00

  Beck smiles at Big Rob as he's tying the rope around his waist. She even wishes him good luck. So everything's coming on Big Rob so far.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  This is good. I don't know how I feel, honestly, but I'm like Team Big Rob right now, in this moment.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  Big Rob finishes collecting beer money from everyone at the party before hoisting himself up onto the window ledge. Everyone in the party is cheering and waving goodbye.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  That sounds bad.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  Big Rob steps out into the air and the bed that he is attached to, which let me remind you, has 12 very muscular climbers on it, flies across the bedroom, through the living room, all the way to the window.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Surely no one could have expected this.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  No one could have guessed.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  From below the window comes the very loud and unmistakable sound of a lot of glass breaking. In a panic, everyone starts pulling on the rope. And it takes a minute, but they're all climbers with strong arms. They manage to pull Big Rob back up relatively quickly. He crawls through the big window and sits on the floor, covered in blood and glass, looking very dazed.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. This has been like 30 seconds.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would say about, yeah, about five minutes total for this entire thing.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  From a flirting standpoint, can you recover from this?

• 34:53Speaker 01

  You know what? Yes.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Beck could be like, wow, I saved him. But he risked that. That's impressive. That's amazing. That's hot even. And he could be like, wow, you're even hotter when you save me. It could work. I could see something. I could see something.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  Well, almost immediately, Beck rushes over from the bed and starts picking shards of glass out of Big Rob's huge bushy beard. Like Beck just takes charge. She's calling for damp cloths and bandages and iodine. The climbers, of course, have plenty of first aid supplies. And Big Rob is just grinning because despite the fact that he is covered in blood and glass, he is finally talking to Beck.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yes, this is, I knew, I knew it was gonna work out.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  You never had any doubt.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  I was always on board. I always thought this was a great idea.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Jono is pumping his fist. He's like, everything did not go exactly as planned, but it is still working out pretty well. In fact, it's working out so well that it takes Jono and everyone else at the party a hot minute to realize that the window to Locky Webb's apartment isn't actually broken, even though Big Rob is covered in glass.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Oh, no, because they're on the fourth floor. There's a ton of other windows. Oh, boy.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, this means that someone else's window in the building has a Big Rob-shaped hole in it.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 36:28Speaker 00

  Which means, at best, angry neighbors, or at worst, the cops. And there's evidence everywhere in Locky Webb's apartment. There's the blood and the glass, obviously, but also when the bed flew across the room, it left these deep scratches all across the wooden floor.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  What would you do if you were at this party?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  I would bail.

• 36:53Speaker 00

  Same.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  I would not be at this party anymore.

• 36:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I would leave, and some people do. But Jono feels responsible for all of this, so he immediately starts covering up the damage. Meanwhile, Locky Webb is like, if you are gonna leave, you have to leave now. So if the cops come, they don't just see a bunch of people walking out the building. So some people leave, but other people really want to see how this turns out. And I respect those people, too, I'm gonna be honest.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Like, we would either have left, or we would be that person.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  No, exactly.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Like, I could easily see us being that person.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  Just being like, if you stay, I stay. I want to see what happens.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Like, we would just be waiting for the other one to be like, yo, wait.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  So Jono and Locky Webb, they push the bed back into place. They pull a rug over the worst of the scratches on the floor in the living room. Someone else cleans up the glass. They close the big bay window. They turn the music down to a demure level.

• 37:54Speaker 00

  And they hide some of the empty alcohol bottles, so it doesn't seem like 50 people were partying in one apartment. And then they wait, and they wait.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  And they wait. It's been about forty-five minutes. And Jono is just starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe, everything's gonna be okay. And then there is a knock at the front door.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  Jono looks at Big Rob, who is like less covered in blood and glass than he was half an hour ago, but he still does not look great.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  Big Rob is too busy looking at Beck to notice Jono telling him to hide. But again, Beck has everything under control. She heard that knock on the door and immediately pulled Big Rob into the bathroom.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Wow. Okay, Beck.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. Half the other partygoers hide as well. And remember, this is a party full of climbers, so they find some insane hiding spots. Like, Jono is fairly sure he sees at least three people in the rafters and one on top of the fridge.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  I was thinking like Spider-Man style, hanging off the ceiling.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  So once everyone is settled Spider-Man style, Locky Webb and Jono open the door. And waiting in the hallway are two cops.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Oh, boy. I mean, I'm kind of glad it's cops and not angry neighbor, low-key.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  That's true. Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Because you gotta stick around with that neighbor. Unless you move,

• 39:33Speaker 01

  you're always gonna have to deal with that neighbor.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  And luckily for our friends, these cops are clearly quite young and new to the forest. They're fresh and not yet jaded by living among miscreants like Jono and his friends, which, again, is a direct quote from our friend who submitted the story.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Miscreants. Incredible.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  So these baby cops ask Jono and Locky Webb if they've seen anything unusual that night. Locky Webb is like, "Nope. Nothing of note."

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Great, great answer, great answer.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, Jono agrees like, yeah, it's been pretty quiet over here. One of the cops is like, well, that's really strange. Because we got the most fascinating call from the apartment one floor down. Where a group of ladies in their 50s were having a night of their own.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Ladies in their 50s, oh no, oh no.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  Specifically, they were having their monthly bunco night. So, music was playing, gin was flowing. When these 50 year old ladies told the cops a giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars flew through the big bay window. Said, oh no, oh shit, and then flew out again.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Oh my god, and like, did Big Rob, he must have seen them, like, he knew, right? Or he didn't know?

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Um, it's unclear how much you see when you fly through a window.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  In your experience, in your experience.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  I don't know how much he saw. Yeah, in my experience of flying through a window and then being hauled out within like a minute, I don't really know how much I'm taking in the scenery.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Oh my god, okay, fair, fair, to each her own.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  Jono starts laughing really nervously, he's like, damn, that's crazy.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  And the cops are like, yeah, we didn't really believe it either. Especially since it sounds like a lot of gin was flowing at this bunco night.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  But the cops are like, we went and checked it out and the window was definitely shattered from the outside, even though the ladies' buncle night is taking place in an apartment that is three floors off the street. So the cops are like, we're just taking a look at all of the apartments close by. Do you mind if we take a look around?

• 42:27Speaker 01

  And what are our boys say? They're like, yeah, that's fine. Let's just get a rug real quick on the giant bed postmarks.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  How are you feeling? Do you have any concerns?

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Okay. The fact that it was old ladies, that's a shocking reveal. Because that's like old ladies watching this young, burly ass man. I love that. But also that they're drunk. I'm worried about the boys' gaslighting and somehow pinning this on them. I don't know. I have a vision, but I don't feel good about where it's going in this apartment.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel like I must again reiterate here that everyone in the story, except the cops, is absolutely off their ass drunk. Because of course, everyone had kept drinking while they waited for the cops to show up. What else were they gonna do?

• 43:22Speaker 01

  No, they were drinking too. Jono and Big Rob and everybody. Of course, of course. Oh, my God.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  This is the only explanation I can accept for why Jono and Lucky Web tell the cops, yeah, sure, come on in.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  And then Jono really loudly is like, we don't have any giant men with bushy beards and thighs the size of wild boars here. Just some friends.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  And it's like, no, we don't only have that. It's actually, we have men and women like that.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  The cops are like, uh, great, thanks. And then they take a look around. They inspect all the windows and the window ledges, which have thankfully been cleaned of blood and glass. They take a look in all the rooms and see nothing suspicious. In fact, the only question they have is about the white powder that's all over the apartment.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 44:25Speaker 00

  Luckily, there's actually an innocent explanation for this. Locky Web is like, oh, that's climbing powder. That's what we use to keep our hands dry.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  All right. I mean, why am I thinking these guys are good at partying?

• 44:38Speaker 00

  It's so true. And one of the cops is like, oh, is that what the rope is for? Because lying on the ground is Big Rob's rope that they have forgotten to hide.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  The key, the key weapon.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Other than Big Rob's body.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  What? How do you forget the rope?

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Locky Web almost chokes. And then John was like, yeah, yeah, we were just, uh, testing the rope.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Which is apparently enough for these baby cops because they're just about to go. When one of them notices the closed bathroom door, behind which is a giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars, covered in bandages.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Oh, man, if I were Rob, I'd be hopping in that shower. Like, I would be like, sorry, I'm naked. Yes, I can't.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  John was like, oh, shit. Just as the cop is like, that bathroom door has been closed for a while now.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  All John can do is watch as the cop knocks on the bathroom door. There's no answer, and the cop knocks again. And then the door flies open. "Can't you see we're busy?" Beck says.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  And Beck is sitting on Big Rob's lap. Big Rob has never looked happier, which John can see more clearly than ever before because Big Rob's big bushy beard is gone.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Apparently, from inside the bathroom, Beck and Big Rob had heard the description of a giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars. And they couldn't do anything about Big Rob's thighs, at least not in a few minutes. But Beck is a quick thinker. She had found a razor in Locky Web's bathroom and immediately started shaving Rob. She barely finished when the cop knocked on the bathroom door.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Women always gotta fix men's messes.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  Women in STEM.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Women.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  The M stands for mountaineering.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Women in STEM. This is why we invested from this moment on. They're like, we gotta put money into women in STEM.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  We figured out what to use it for.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  The baby cop sees Beck on Big Rob's lap and turns red as a bee. He's like, sorry to interrupt.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  And closes the bathroom door before turning to his colleague and saying, I think we've seen everything we need.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Incredible, incredible thinking.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  Jono is like breathing a sigh of relief. He's watching as the cops turn to leave. He's like, we are so close to getting away home free. And then, right at that moment, one of the climbers, who has been clinging to the rafters for the past 15 minutes, falls to the apartment floor, right in front of the cops.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Who would have thought? Who would have thought?

• 47:57Speaker 00

  Luckily, these are people who are professionally good at falling. I think if you climb, you have to learn to fall. So while it's very loud, the climber mostly looks fine. Still, the cops are like, sir, do you need medical attention? And Lucky Love's like, we're good. We're just practicing for our next expedition.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  These guys are smarter than you would ever have thought.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  Listen, drunk brain really comes in handy sometimes.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  It really does, and they are practiced.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, you gotta think quick when you're out in the elements.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:34Speaker 00

  And that is basically the end of our story. I do have some updates for you, but I wanted to ask you, if you were to try and date a boy like Big Rob or Jono, what do you think is the safest date you could take a man like this on?

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Safest?

• 48:51Speaker 01

  I'm never going higher than the ground floor with these guys ever. And we are not going near a bar or restaurant. We are going to like craft night on like a senior center. Except we aren't even safe at the senior center because these old ladies, you know, they're popping off.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  So true. It's so true. Yeah, I'm just like, take them to the park, but even that is so dangerous.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  We have to be in a closed, contained environment and there must be no windows. That nothing they can rappel off at all.

• 49:25Speaker 00

  So the updates are after the cops leave, uh, Big Rob and Jono and Lucky Webb pool all of the money that they had meant to spend on beer and they leave it in a brown paper bag in front of the door of the apartment below them because they feel bad about breaking the window.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Thoughtful.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, thoughtful, but this only adds to the mystery of the whole thing for the ladies downstairs, who apparently talked about the time the giant bearded man with great thighs flew through the window and flew back out for a solid three decades afterwards.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  I mean, honestly, as girlies who love a story.

• 50:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  These, they were gifted and amazing.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  No, it's so true. It'd be like, do you remember? And I'd be like, yeah, of course I do. I haven't seen thighs like that since.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Wild boar size.

• 50:18Speaker 00

  Exactly. The next update is that the morning after Big Rob's flight, Beck visits Big Rob to check up on his injuries, of course, and the two end up dating for a couple of years.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Years.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, they are still friendly to this day, but Beck understood pretty quickly that the true love of Big Rob's life is Jono. Um, which you call from the very beginning.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  I literally called it I'm practiced.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  Big Rob and Jono are in their 70s now and they're still climbing together. They are no better at talking to women and apparently their nursing homes do not allow them on any floor but the ground floor.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. A nursing home with a basement is the best place for these guys.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  And that is the end of our story. Thank you so much for joining me, Allegra.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Thank you for giving me an amazing story that I'm gonna steal and tell other people now. I'm gonna blog about this one.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at [email protected], or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at NormalGossip. You can follow me on all social media at HeyDnA, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Ricks and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatzic. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Kelsey McKinney and Defector's supervising producer Alex Hujan-Loflin. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. Dan McCleod runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandy Jensen, David Raw, Catherine Chu, Serena Imbler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively-owned, subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this from me.