Hell in a Ham Bag with Carson Olshansky

Tis the damn season for hometown crushes! Carson Olshansky joins us for a story about running into your high school crush while holiday shopping. Follow Carson on Instagram @carsonolshansky https://www.instagram.com/carsonolshansky/ Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! https://kelseymckinneybook.com/ Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! https://shop.lostcitybookstore.com/product/9781000275124 Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Rp7utxtK9D7eu7L1Bc0yf26m_sx-ul6-X_gSrHCSMk/edit?usp=sharing Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey https://www.instagram.com/mckinneykelsey/) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas https://www.instagram.com/ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel https://twitter.com/AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Madeline Carey. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Hi and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. As always, if you are desperate for more gossip and you're just like dying inside because this one episode a week isn't enough for you, or you're becoming scared at the end of the season, you can always become a subscriber at supportnormalgossip.com where you'll get an extra monthly bonus episode. I am so excited to have with me today Carson Olshansky. Carson is a Brooklyn-based stand-up comedian and writer whom you may know from New York City Pride Fest, the New York Comedy Festival, Reductress, or that time Cara Delevingne commented on their Instagram reel. Carson, welcome.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

• 0:52Speaker 00

  It's so nice to see you again. We were introduced to each other for the first time at the Williamstown Theater Festival. Do you have anything you'd like to say about our experience at the theater festival before we move on?

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Oh, I loved it. I just got to be like a passenger princess, both in the literal sense of like literally being driven around. And I mean, you guys had to put, you know, produce a live show. I just got to have fun and steal snacks.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  You did miss the most dramatic thing that happened.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I think I got sort of a teaser of it.

• 1:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. The real thing is that I went dumbass mode. And I don't usually drive places because I live in a walkable city. So my car keys are just like a thing that doesn't really exist to me. And so I put them on the floor of the rental car and then they became stuck in the like rib cage of the rental car seat. And then I could not find them. And so we spent like 45 minutes in a pure terror. Poor Alex was Googling like, how to get new keys for car while I was like hyperventilating. So you're lucky that you missed that.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  My perspective on this story was, you know, I was the kid who if something spilled, I was the one who spilled it. Okay. So I just like left, you know, I was about like, I forget, like an hour out. And I get a text being like, hey, any chance you took Kelsey's car keys? And I sort of read that as I absolutely took Kelsey's car keys.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Like I searched all, I have like this, I was like, holding three big bags in my lap. I searched all of them and I was like, and I couldn't even find it in my bag.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  I'm so sorry. So, thank you for not stealing my car keys. Um, not thank you to me for losing them.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  I'm so glad I didn't.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Carson, would you like to start me off with a classic first question and tell me what your relationship with gossip is?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  So you know those kids who like, weren't allowed to have like sweets as a kid? So then when they're an adult, there's no way they're gonna have a normal relationship with sweets?

• 2:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  I feel sort of like that with gossip, not because of like household restrictions, but because in like, middle and high school, I had few friends and no social currency. So I just sort of wasn't in the gossip circles. I didn't have the like, practice gossiping at those formative ages where you're supposed to be forming a healthy relationship with gossip. So now I just sort of go too long, too hard.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Explain. Like, what does it mean to go too long and too hard?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  So let's say gossiping starts because someone has something juicy to share.

• 3:17Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Three hours later, you're out of juicy stuff. You know, then you're just shit talking people you don't even dislike. I feel like I often end up there.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  And you think that that's because you missed out on some kind of like, training?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I just sort of like, am so excited to be included in gossip. And I have such a scarcity mentality of like, if I don't keep adding fuel to this, it's gonna go away.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  No, Carson.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  You're like, pulling up people's Instagrams from 2014, being like, look at this.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Wow, that's hard. Um, you are very visible on social media. You are, you're posting, we're both posting all the time. What is this I have heard about Cara Delevingne commenting on your Instagram reel? What is this? Explain.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  I posted a joke about how like, I don't think celebrity women are actually any more likely to be queer than the population overall. I think they're just more likely to have met Cara Delevingne.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  And Cara Delevingne commented lol.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  So she's saying it's true.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. I didn't hear a denial there.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  Well, I don't hear a denial. It seems like that's true for sure.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  That's like when you hear, you know, a rumor that a female celebrity has dated a supermodel. Like, you don't have to be that gay to want to date a supermodel.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  Um, I was told that you brought a gossip story for me. Is that true?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Can I have it?

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, uh, okay. So, growing up, I had this childhood friend, Julia.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  This is one of those situations where like, we're friends, our older siblings are friends, our parents are friends.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Uh, we became friends when we were like three or four.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  And it was that dynamic where like, we had a great time one-on-one. We like played pretend fairies. We made our Neopets accounts together.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  That's, that is huge, really.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, right? It's a commitment. But, uh, so we went to the same elementary school, the same middle school, the same high school.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  All throughout, there was this dynamic where like, she was cooler than I was.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  So there was a real distance in school.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  Yes. And I imagine, I mean, I had friendships like this, right? It is kind of like an in-law situation where it's like you have become friends via marriage. And the marriage is your older siblings or your parents are friends, right?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  I would argue that we had real friendship chemistry independently.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  Okay, I love that for you.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  I don't know whether she would confirm or deny. You know, who's to say?

• 5:58Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm already scared.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  By senior year, we drifted apart a lot. Um, it was early in the year. I heard a couple classmates talking about having gone to Julia's 17th birthday party over the weekend.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I wasn't surprised not to have been invited to her birthday party.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  I was surprised that they said 17th birthday party because Julia and I are the same age.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Julia's 18.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  What? I, okay. I was very old for my grade. And you knew which kids were younger, right? Like, it is very clear when you're in elementary school and middle school, which kids are almost a full year younger than you, because like, you're taller than them. You have more skills than them, right? Because that's how childhood works. So the idea that you could hide being a full year younger than people in your grade for the entirety of your childhood is like, okay, so you're not only saying that you're a year younger, you're saying that you're a genius.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. I knew you when you were like, either three, just about to be four, or had just turned four. You weren't a whole year younger than that, you know? So I ask her about it. I'm like, hey.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Quick question.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Talking about your 17th birthday party.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Why do they not know how old you are? And she's like, actually, you don't know how old I am.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  What?

• 7:32Speaker 01

  When I was three, my mom lied and said I was four, so that I could get on the same Peewee soccer team as my older sister. And the lie has just, you know, at a certain point, there was no good way to walk it back. I'm like, that would almost be plausible if I didn't know you then. She's like, no, it's true. I mean, you know, I always looked young. Now you know why. And you have to stop talking about this because we could get in real trouble now.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Wait, what?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  So I say to her, like, look, I don't believe you. That being said, it's clearly important to you that I let this go.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  So like, I'm not going to keep talking about it. Honestly, what I feel sadder about is just like, how far we've drifted as friends.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  And she says, I just don't know that I can be friends with someone who doesn't trust me.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  You lied to me.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  For 15 years.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or just started lying to me now.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  Now, yeah, one of the two.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  So that's it for our friendship. Like, that's the last time that she and I speak. And she's been like, family to me, you know, for all my formative years.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  So, like, I still miss her, you know? She's still in my dreams. So, two weeks ago, I'm going through childhood photos.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  I find a picture of our pre-K class.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  So, the thing is, I'm not about to concede any years-old battles.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  But she did look really young.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  Oh. Oh, no. Okay. Let's say I buy it, right? Like, let's say I buy it, and, which I'm not sure that I do yet.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm also not sure that I do. I'm just giving you all the information I have.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  And I appreciate that. Let's say I decide to buy this story. How would she get in trouble for it in high school?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  I don't know, but she seemed really intense about it, so I didn't push it.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  Huh.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  There's one little epilogue.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, great.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Which is that, in getting ready to tell you this story, I wondered if I could fact-check it?

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a great idea. I love that plan.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  I did look up her full name plus age.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Uh-huh.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  There were two Google results.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  They both showed different numbers.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Oh. I'm trying to, uh, my brain is like moving 500 miles a minute, because I'm like, one, how can we figure out the correct answer to this? Because I, like, need to know now. But, two, it's like, for your age online to show two different numbers, it means that, like, at some point, this, like, charade of what age you are seems to have continued, right? Because, like, like, why would the ages still be different?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have no idea.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Wow. I like this crime because it hurts no one, and also, I have no idea why you would do it.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Um, Carson, thank you for bringing me this story of childhood friendship and deceit and lies. I liked it very much. Do you want to hear the story that I have for you today?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  More than anything in the world.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kinda just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Book your first session in minutes and you can start in as little as two days. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com/gossip to get started today. That is growtherapy.com/gossip. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  I'm gonna admit something embarrassing. I know, shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for an undisclosed amount of months, long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow, they deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp and I had a vision in mind. Wayfair, they had exactly what I need, which is one of those library style lights with like the green lampshade and little pull cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one and now I have one because of course Wayfair had it.

• 13:00Speaker 02

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• 13:21Speaker 03

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• 14:01Speaker 00

  Our friend and our friend today, we're going to call her Tessa. And Tessa is experiencing a very particular type of misery, which is that she is boarding a plane home from college to go home for the holidays. She does not want to go home. She wants to stay in college where she has created a personality for herself.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Is this relatable to you at all?

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, I did go home for the holidays during college, but like, that freedom of finally having gotten away and like, having my first situationship. My situationship isn't at home.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. What are you supposed to do? Like, talk to people you went to high school with who have lied to their age for years? Tessa is like, "I never even wanted to be in the place I was from in the first place."

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Right? Like, she's one of those girls that went as far as possible. And for Tessa, that meant across a whole ocean.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  So to go home for the holidays, she has to leave her like, prestigious Hogwarts ass college she attends, fly on a giant plane, all the way to the other side of the world to her home country that is also a continent.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Okay. I have zero guesses.

• 15:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. How would you have a guess? And then, she has to drive hours from the airport in the big city to the small town that she's from.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  And that's like, the worst part of this, right? Is that it's like, in the small town, her parents work for the town, she went to school there, everyone knows her. And that was like the old her, right? She's like, I feel different now. I don't want to go back to the land of kangaroos where everyone assumes they know everything about me.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are no like, parents, friends to tell your parents if you're out past 11:30 at night in college.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  Yes, um, truly hate to do this to you, but you did tweet recently, and I quote, this is a great moral to never tweet.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  Quote, "Sometimes I'll run into an old acquaintance and they'll try to fall back into our old rhythm, but I'm like, sorry, I don't remember which version of me I pretended to be with you." Can you explain this?

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Um, can I explain?

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. I have some people pleasing tendencies.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  I'll maybe change my personality a little bit depending on who I'm talking to. And so it might take me a second to remember who I was.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think that's like, especially acute when you're 19, right? Because it's like you haven't really finished filling out the form of like which personality you would like to have.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're still trying stuff on, you're still like seeing what works from which personality and sort of gluing together your collage personality from all of them.

• 16:43Speaker 00

  Exactly. And there's another problem for Tessa, which is a more universal problem, and it is pining.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  What is having a crush like for you?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Excruciating.

• 16:56Speaker 00

  Say more.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I mean, like, I can't sleep when I have like a real crush.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Is it like an obsessive?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Kind of crush?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  It's all encompassing. Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. So for all of high school, Tessa had an obsessive crush on this girl Erica.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  They were the smartest girls in their literature class, but Erica like always had a boyfriend and seemed to be straight.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Tessa assumed that by going very, very far away for college, she'd like forget all about Erica. And for the most part, she did. She's like, I'm the new Tessa now, right? Like, I have a whole cool group of queer friends. I'm like, reading classic books. I joined a rec sports league in college, right? Like, I'm totally different.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  She's like, I'm confident and strong, and I am not the type to pine after a straight girl anymore.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  Do you believe this?

• 17:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  But, well, no. Yes, but I don't believe Erica's a straight girl. Uh huh, okay. The minute Tessa gets on the plane to go home, her brain is like, remember Erica?

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  And so she has so much time on the plane to think about this because the flight is hours and hours and hours. And she's like, pining, having a crush like that is so miserable. I can't do it, right?

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wait, I want to know, what was, you know, I know Erica always had boyfriends, but what was Erica and Tessa's relationship?

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Good question. The vibe that I got is that Tessa is like the kind of girl that like, when she has a crush, she like withdraws, right?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, right? Like, and so it's one of those things where like, the person you have a crush on would be like, they don't even like me. And then as her friend, you would have to be like, no, she does like you, she's just a dumbass.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Tessa kept every conversation as short as possible because they were so excruciating.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  So, on this airplane, not feeling good about this crush coming back.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  Not feeling good about this crush having magically blossomed again inside her heart. And she's like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm just gonna stay inside my parents' house. Like, I'm gonna go home. I don't need to go anywhere. I don't need to see anyone. I can just go to my house for the holidays and put myself inside house prison, and then I'll be safe.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Do you think this is a good idea?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  No. Like, it sounds like her brain is the prison here.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  And so spending all your time shut up inside in a place that makes you feel like not the best version of yourself doesn't seem like the antidote to the poison.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. Yeah, that seems right. But Tessa is 19. So she's like, this is absolutely gonna work.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  By the time Tessa arrives, her plane touches down in the land of a thousand hymns worth, she is exhausted. And also, it is so hot because famously, south of the equator, Christmas time is summertime.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Her mom picks her up at the airport, drives her the million miles home. And when she arrives, she's like, I'm so tired. Her dad's in his armchair. And he has his like crutches nearby because this man had to have his hip replaced because of some like long ago's college sports injury. And so he's like barely mobile. So he calls Tessa over and he's like, I'm so glad you're home. It's so good to see you. And she's like, it's so good to see you. And then he like kind of like menacingly is like, I gotta talk to you later about something.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  They eat dinner. Tessa's like watching him with concern because she's like, what on earth does this man have to say to me? And after dinner, he pulls her aside and is like, Tessa, you know, I've been like laid up and injured. And she's like, yes, I'm aware of that. And he's like, okay, I need your help with like, all the Christmas chores.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  And Tessa's like, well, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Right? Like, classic parent ask. What kind of holiday traditions do you have in your family?

• 20:47Speaker 01

  So we are Jewish.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  So we don't do much for Christmas.

• 20:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Hanukkah is kind of a fake holiday. Like my parents really put on a good show when we were little. But you know, by the time I was like, still home, but maybe like 13, I'd be like, wait, are we not doing all eight nights? And they're like, oh, you still want to do all eight nights? Grow up.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  We, on New Year's Eve is also my late grandfather's birthday. So we, so every year, we have like a dinner for that. But that's about it.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  My only Christmas tradition is that every year I watch every Twilight movie. So I'm not also, I'm also not doing a lot of Christmas traditions. In this family, every Christmas is the same. Okay, Christmas Eve is like a small dinner at home. And then on Christmas morning, they drive two hours to the city where Tessa's plane landed. And that's where her mom's family lives. So they do like, big Christmas there.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  Everyone opens their presents, they have a big dinner, et cetera.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Do we like this family?

• 21:46Speaker 00

  We like the family. Yeah. Everyone feels good about that. So Tessa's like, whatever, there's always chores around Christmas. Like, what kind of chores do you want me to do? And for the most part, these are normal, right? The dad's like, I need you to help me put up the Christmas tree. I need Christmas cookies for the neighbors. We gotta put the lights up. Like, normal stuff.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  But there's one more thing. And he's like, I need your help with your mother's Christmas gift.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  There are like a couple of reasons that this is annoying to Tessa. The first is that she's like, there are only like four days until Christmas. Right? Like, this is stressful timing. You've now given me like four chores, including a present for my mother.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  The second reason is that Tessa's parents are so annoying about Christmas. They always demand to open each other's gifts at the big family party. And then they do this like little sketch that they do every year. Where her dad opens her mom's gift. Say it's like a George Foreman grill, or whiskey stones, or a puzzle game, or a Yeti cooler. And he's like, I hate it. It's impractical. It takes up counter space. I don't want this.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  Her mom opens her dad's gift and say it's, you know, an automatic wine opener, or a Snuggie, or a fancy piece of cookware. And she's like, this is too expensive, and it looks cheap, and it isn't like me at all. And it is so uncomfortable for everyone in this Christmas room.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  How do you feel about this, like, tiff?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  I, well, this is a bit of a different, because there's not the interpersonal tension element to it. But every Passover, my dad reads the same humor passage from Daniel Handler, AKA Lemonade Snicket.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  And every time we get to the poor children part of the Seder, and every time he takes out his little insert, I'm just like...

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Here we go.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  So it's not the same like play fighting in a way that you're like, I know this is play fighting, but it's still making the rest of us uncomfortable seeing this?

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  But at least there's that same degree of like, I understand the sort of eye rolliness of knowing it's coming and then having to.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Exactly. And so it's like, it's the eye rolling and it's also the fact that Tessa knows like the reality of these people's lives, which is that when they go home, they use the gifts that they have gotten each other every single day.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  So Tessa knows that this is a play fighting joke. Does everyone know that this is a play fighting joke?

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Not necessarily. Like the vibes are not great.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Do you know the 30 Rock episode where like the rich women without jobs need to do the Fight Club just to sort of like feel alive?

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Do you think like maybe they're just so satisfied in their marriage that they need to perform marital dissatisfaction just to keep the erotic spark alive?

• 24:32Speaker 00

  I love this as a theory. I think it's totally possible. Like, I don't know why they do this. Like, we did not get an answer. But it's like, there's something about this kind of couple that like, I like, I know couples like this where it's like they pick at each other in front of people and you're like, I don't really love that your like love language is public fighting. Like, could you just stop? Like, this is not, everyone else is unhappy here.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  It does always feel weird to be brought into a couple's dynamic in ways that feel outside the sort of scripts for how couples are supposed to exist in public shared spaces.

• 25:06Speaker 00

  Yes. So Tessa's dad has now asked her to become involved, not only in getting the gift, but like in this whole situation.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  And he can sense her hesitation. And he's like, don't worry. I already have the perfect gift. Like, she's definitely gonna love it this year. He says this every year. And Tessa's like, I don't believe you. And he's like, no, no, no, no. Like, this year is different. I already called ahead. The gift is in stock. All you have to do is go get it. What do you think about this?

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I, I mean, I don't feel great about it. But like, if I were Tessa, it seems like going and getting it would be such the easier option than taking a stand here.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Tessa's like, fine. Like, whatever. Like, what is the present?

• 25:59Speaker 00

  And he tells her that it is a very beautiful, very fancy ham bag. Do you think that this is a good gift?

• 26:06Speaker 01

  You said it's a handbag?

• 26:07Speaker 00

  Oh, see, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't say handbag. I said ham bag. H A M B A G.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Okay, right, right, of course, ham bag.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  Do you know what a ham bag is?

• 26:24Speaker 01

  I mean, I know what ham is and I know what a bag is.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  Yes, you're pretty fucking close already. In this land of like down under chaos, they have some sort of fun and exciting Christmas traditions. One of them is like to go to the beach dressed as Santa, I guess, but they also have ham bag.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  A ham bag is a cotton bag with a drawstring at the top that is made for storing ham.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Ham is like the traditional meat of this country's Christmas, I guess. And because Christmas time is in the summer, all these like flat white lovers don't like a hot roast. They want cold meat, like sliced ham. And so they have a nice big luncheon and because of this, you have so much ham and the ham needs to be stored. And so you have a ham bag where you put the ham so it doesn't dry out in the fridge.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Do you think this is a good gift?

• 27:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  Why?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Cause gifts are supposed to be like fun and not like that sounds like such a practical item. Like cotton and a string seems pretty, uh, not that exciting.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  Yes. Tessa is like, what kind of fucking drugs did they give you when you got out of surgery? Like you buy a ham bag at the supermarket. You buy a ham bag is like a extra little thing in line. Like it's like giving your partner a scrub daddy for Christmas.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Tess is like, Dad, you can't not give mom a ham bag.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a special ham bag. It's high quality. First off, it's linen and cotton. Second off, it's hand embroidered by a local artist. You're paying for art. It's really high quality. It's like bespoke even.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  For an item that you're gonna put a bunch of greasy ham into?

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  Are you convinced?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  No, but I am convinced that mom's reaction to this is gonna like ultimately be dad's problem. I mean, I know we're all gonna have to feel it and be uncomfortable about it.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  But it also sounds like dad has proven himself over the years to actually have a pretty great sense of mom's taste.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  And what she'll actually use and enjoy. And so maybe even though this would not be the right present for 99.99% of people, she might be that 0.01%.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Tessa is like dad, no one wants a hand embroidered handbag. And he's like, your mom complains every year about the quality of the handbags. Like, she's gonna love it. And Tessa's like, no, she's not. And her dad is like, will you please just help me? Like, I can't drive. You have to go into town to get it. Town is like, you know, the bigger town nearby with cute stuff. It is a 30 minute drive.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  What do you think?

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Um, does town put me in greater danger of running into high school people?

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Okay, I don't love this, but I probably wouldn't put up a fight.

• 29:31Speaker 00

  Okay. Tessa's like, oh, my God, fine. It's like, I'll go. He's like, great. It's in this little like shoppy shop in town. Usually when I say the words shoppy shop, what I mean is a store that like carries Grata olive oil. Right? Like it has like adorable mugs and great incense and like little plants that you'll kill, right? Like, that's, that's the vibe.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  And so Tessa's like, the handbag that you want me to get is from the store that carries like these weird, strange tchotchkes that like, I don't think anyone wants. And he's like, yes. She's like, great. He's like, do you know where it is? She's like, oh, yeah, I bought like, mom bought your whiskey stones last year there, which you claim to hate and use every day.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  He's like, great. So you know it. So the next day, three days before Christmas, she drives into town. It takes 45 minutes because there's traffic from people going to buy gifts. It's hard to park. She finally finds a place. She goes like strolling up to the store and she's looking in the window. And there at the counter is Erica. What do you do?

• 30:33Speaker 01

  So has Tessa, I know Tessa has sort of transformed herself in terms of she exists in a different social circle.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  She, in college, carries herself with a new confidence. Has she, like, gotten a cool haircut? Has she gotten ripped? Are there visible changes?

• 30:46Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  That could say, like, Erica, I'm not the same Tessa you knew.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  Absolutely. There are, like, absolutely physical changes. Probably haircut, probably ripped. Right? Like, she's looking different, but in her heart, she is not feeling different.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's regressing right back. So it's really hard to summon that sort of spirit of, like, this is the new me. When you're like, Erica, Erica, Erica, Erica, please smile at me. Please, please smile at me.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Literally.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  I would hide.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Okay, that's correct. Tessa is like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. She ducks.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  She, like, runs at a half stoop back to her car. And she's like, I cannot believe this. Like, yeah, I do not want to see this girl.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  I'm also, like, not dressed cute because I just came into town to get this stupid handbag.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm glad that she's not dressed cute because that means she's not so obsessed that she's like, every time I'm going into town, there's a possibility of seeing Erica and therefore, like, she could be farther gone than she is.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  She will become more farther gone. She's like, I can't go in there. Right? I'm not going in there. I don't look cute. I have been dreading and also hoping with every bone in my body to see this girl. I cannot go in there. And she's also like, is her hair shorter? Like, it looked shorter.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Are you brave when faced with a crush?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  What level of bravery do you have?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Like, close to none.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  Would you flee?

• 32:13Speaker 01

  I might, like, wait a little. Like, I don't know that I would fully run. She was at the counter, so she's paying, right?

• 32:20Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, sorry. She's not paying. She's working at the counter.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Oh, gotcha. Okay, then I'd probably swallow my, I'd probably suck it up.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  You would?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  You're going in.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Especially, I mean, you've got such a great, like, the scary thing is not knowing what you're gonna say. But this is a beautiful moment. You can be like, my dad got my mom this handbag. This is crazy, right?

• 32:45Speaker 00

  Yes. That is a great point, that, like, the script exists.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  Like, if you're in a foreign country and you barely speak the language, you can interact with customer service people because there's only ever, like, eight things that people say to each other, right? Like, the script is easy. Tessa does not think this. Tessa is not brave. She drives back home.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  She's like, Dad, I didn't get the handbag. I'm gonna go get it tomorrow. He's like, okay, great. She spends the evening like doing chores, right? Her mom has been doing like so much lately because her dad is hurt. And Tessa like makes the Christmas cookies he needs. She cleans the kitchen. Her mom is like so happy. And she's like, thank you so much. Like, I feel so underwater. There's like so much to do. And usually your dad is like super good at helping, but he just like can't when he's on crutches. And she's like, and I'm just feeling so tired. Like, thank you for your help. And Tessa is like, you're so welcome. But then in her heart, she's like, we cannot get this woman a handbag.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  Do you think that she should like find an alternative gift?

• 33:43Speaker 01

  No, this is her dad's problem. This is, it's just let it happen. I'm sorry that you have to be there for it, but you just have to let it happen.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Why?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Because she's already pushed back. Let it hap- like, this is not, you did your part.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  Yes. Tessa is like, Dad, we cannot get her a handbag. And her dad is like, we're getting her a handbag. And she's like, okay.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  The next day, she wakes up. She becomes dressed. She becomes cute. She drives 45 minutes. She looks through the window of the shop and Erica is there again at the register. And she's like, I, no, no, I can't do this. She goes to the coffee shop across the street. She's like, I don't want to interact with Erica. I'll just wait until her shift is over, or she goes on her break or something, and then I'll dart in.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  See, I'm a very cowardly person. And even I'm like, okay, Tessa.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  You, you, you no longer have my sympathy for like having been caught off guard, you know?

• 34:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  You've gotten yourself all cute.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  This is like, one of the most straightforward interactions you could possibly have. Like, running into her anywhere in any other context would be so much scarier. Here you know exactly what your role is.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  And it, this is a little uncomfortable, but I'm about to say from a power perspective.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Please.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  She's the one working there. You're the customer. You can kind of decide when the interaction is over.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it's also like, there's a clear limit on the interaction time because you're buying something.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  Right? Like, you're not like, it's not like you ran into her at a bar and it's like, well, if I go talk to her, I could get stuck there for 45 minutes and then I might reveal all of my secrets, right? Like, it's like you're-

• 35:23Speaker 01

  I mean, you could, like, on the plus side, you can stay and chit chat. Like, if it's not too crowded and she doesn't have other people that, you know?

• 35:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, you have options. In some ways, I'm like, this is the best way to run into a crush. Tessa does not think this. She's like, I'm gonna be staking this out. Have you ever staked out a crush?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's the normal response.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  I just figured I'd ask. Tessa waits and waits and waits, and eventually Erica leaves. And Tessa's like, her jeans look so good. She looks incredible. She's like, now is my time. Erica is-

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Are these the same style of jeans she's always worn?

• 35:57Speaker 00

  No.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Or are they like, maybe a little bit baggier than they've been in the past?

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Good question. They are a little bit baggier than they've been in the past.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:03Speaker 00

  Isn't that interesting?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  That's so interesting.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  She's like, that's so interesting. And also, I have to go now, right? Like, I have, she's, she's left, I have to go. So Tessa, like, darts-

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Wait, just quickly, did we get a close enough view to see whether the piercing count is the same as it's always been?

• 36:19Speaker 00

  We did not.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  And whether there are any new tattoos?

• 36:20Speaker 00

  We did not. We are across the street.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Okay, go on.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  Tessa goes over. She, like, darts in. She's looking around. There's, like, you know, Christy Santa-scented candles and, like, weird wooden objects and, like, those tiny leather pouches that I don't know what they're for. And finally, she finds a handbag. And it is embroidered on the outside with, like, native flowers and, like, several little pigs. And there's, like, a card to the side with, like, a bio for the artist.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  And then she looks at the price and it is $60.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  All right.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  And Tessa is like, I'm a college kid. Like, I don't have $60-

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Oh, her dad didn't give her money?

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Her dad did not give her money. And she's like, I'm not spending $60 out of my, like, debit account-

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  If we have not discussed me getting reimbursed for this.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Do you agree with that?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd probably call my dad and be like, hey.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. Tessa's like, I'm gonna call my dad. I'm gonna figure this out. But before she can call her dad, Erica returns from her break.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  I'm so surprised.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  What a surprise. And Tessa is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She ducks behind a row of postcards. She sneaks out the door. She tries to like dart out of it really fast. But like many shops, it has a bell on the fucking door. So when she goes out, it's like, bing.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  She hasn't scoped this out?

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Not at all.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Tessa rookie move.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  She runs to the car. She's like out of breath. What do you do at this point?

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I call my dad. I confirm that I'm gonna be able to get the money back. I go back in there.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  You're going back in.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Hi, Erica. We've already established that I don't think this is a good enough, you know, I think this avoidance has passed the point of.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  Reasonable.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I mean, or even like, cause obviously even the first avoidance is not like reasonable.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  But at least to me, it's somewhat sympathetic.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  My sympathies have are kind of running out.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  Yes. I also think it's like, there is a version of avoiding someone that is like creating an advantage for yourself. Right? Like you're like, I want to see them when I look hot in a situation where I'm prepared to see them. Like that is like creating power for yourself. At this point, every moment that you don't see her is self sabotage.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Right? Like you're creating bad things for yourself in this avoidance. Tess is like, I can't do it. She drives home and she's like, I cannot buy the handbag, Dad. Like, Mom will never forgive you for buying a handbag. She's at this point reaching. She's like, it's ridiculous for a handbag to cost $60. This is true.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  She's like, also, Mom will talk about it constantly for the rest of our lives and ruin everything. And in her heart, she's like, I cannot go back in there.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  And her dad is like, I'll give you the money. Why didn't you just call me? I would have reimbursed. I would have told you that I would reimburse you. And Tess is like, no, I don't want to do it. I don't want to get the handbag. And her dad's like, how much? And Tess is like, what? And he's like, if I gave you $100 in cash and you got to keep $40 for yourself, would you do this?

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Would I? Yeah. I mean, I already would have done it. Like, yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Now you're being paid.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Tess is like, fine. Like, $40 is a lot for me. I want a treat. I'm a college student. She's like, here's the deal. $40 and you take my involvement in this to the grave. Like, do not tell mom. He's like, deal.

• 40:13Speaker 03

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• 41:01Speaker 00

  Now it is the third day and she must return to the town.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Does she get even cuter than the second day?

• 41:06Speaker 00

  She sure does. She gets even cuter. It's like hair done, light makeup. Like, we're looking great. How do you play this?

• 41:16Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm going in there. I'm looking cute. I'm making fun of my dad to her.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yes, yes.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  We're laughing together. We're exchanging numbers. We're getting coffee to catch up on all that we've missed.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Like, how's, how's college?

• 41:31Speaker 00

  Okay, game. I love it. Tessa is like, delusional 100%, right? And she's like, my plan actually worked last time. I was just too slow.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  So again, she goes and sits in the coffee shop. She's like, wearing giant sunglasses. She's wearing a hat, right? She's got like a newspaper. No one reads the newspaper. She's waiting for Erica to leave. Finally, Erica leaves. She like hurries across the street. Tessa finds the handbag and her dad was like, get the cream handbag. But now she's looking and there's also like a gorgeous olive color. And she's like, that's my mom's favorite color. So she's like, fuck it. I'm making myself complicit. I'm getting the green.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  No, don't do it.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  Why?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Because your hands are so clean.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Like, don't have any role in this. Let it be your dad's problem.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  Tessa picks up the green one. As she picks it up, she has learned from her past mistakes. And so she hears the bell on the shop door ding. And Erica has returned from her break. And Erica is like, oh, my God, Tessa, you're back?

• 42:38Speaker 00

  And Tessa's like, oh, my God, Erica, hi, just like for the break. And then Erica hugs her. And Tessa is swooning, right? She's like, my knees feel weak. My tongue is maybe dead. Like, I can never say anything at all. And Erica's like, can I help you like find anything? Tessa's holding an olive green $60 handbag in her hands. And she's like, yeah, I'm looking for a handbag.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  Erica like looks at her, looks at the handbag, looks back up at her and is like, I think you've found it. And Tessa's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, I mean, that's, this is what I'm gonna get. And Erica's like, oh, you're, you're getting the handbag?

• 43:19Speaker 00

  And Tessa's like,

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Yes, I'm getting the ham bag. And Erica's like, everyone is obsessed with the ham bag this year. And Tessa's like, it's a beautiful ham bag. And Erica's like, yeah, it keeps the ham so moist. It's a real dream.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  This is my nightmare.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Why is this your nightmare?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Just ending up like this far into a conversation that like, I know this feeling. You're just saying words to not

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Be silent, you know, like, because you have to say words now.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  And so you end up this far into a conversation that you know that they're bored by because you're bored by it.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Yes. This is also where I'm like, you need a wingband, right? Like, if you're going into this situation where you have to interact with your crush, like, you need a friend.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  To just like elbow you as hard as they can in the ribs when you start saying things like, it's a beautiful ham bag.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  Tessa's like, I want to die, right? Like, she's with you. She's like, this is terrible. This is awful. I'm now having a like extended conversation about a ham bag with this girl I have always thought is cute, who has a septum ring?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  She's like, that makes this worse somehow.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:35Speaker 00

  Erica's like, okay, great. I'm so glad you found the ham bag. Like, is there anything else I can get you?

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Just ask Erica a single question about her life. Just one.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Just one. That would be a great idea. Tessa looks frantically around and she's like, she sees a bunch of teapots and she's like, yeah, I need a individual teapot.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  She does not need this.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  But once she said it, Erica leads her over there and is like,

• 44:58Speaker 01

  There go her $40 and then some.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Ding ding ding. Erica picks one up and puts it in Tessa's hands. And Tessa's like, are we, are we touching hands? We're touching hands. And Tessa's like, oh, my God, it's so cute. Because it's like an individual teapot. It's little. And Erica is like, yeah, very. But she's looking at Tessa. Is this flirting?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Um, like not enough information to say so far, but it's not discouragement.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. Tessa's like, huh. She's like, I'll take it because she's like, I want, yes, I'll take this. It is $40.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  No, don't keep giving up your power.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  What do you mean?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Just like, you don't need to say yes to like, be your own person in that space, you know?

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Don't just try to guess what she would want you to do and then spend all the money you have trying to do that.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  This is such good advice, but it's also really good advice that comes from being in your twenties. Like, being 19, being still in college, you think that the way to get someone to love you is to become the version of a person that they want.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. You read every book they even mention in passing.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Exactly. And it's like, actually, that's not what people want. Like, just be who you are. But she cannot. She's like, whatever. I'm spending the $40 that I got in my dad's money on this weird little teapot.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  She goes to the counter and Erica's like, I'm kind of like surprised that you're getting a ham bag.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Yes, make fun of the ham bag. Just make fun of the ham bag.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  And Tessa's like, oh, my dad wants me to get it for my mom. Like, I don't know. He's like on one, like, I'm just here on a mission. And Erica's like, oh, that, that makes perfect sense to me. Actually, you're not the first one in here this week doing that. And Erica's like, is the teapot also for your mom?

• 46:51Speaker 00

  And Tessa's like, oh, no, no, the teapot is for me, actually.

• 46:56Speaker 00

  How are you feeling about this interaction?

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Um, like moderately, but not severely negative.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  Okay, okay. It could be worse, I guess. Tessa pays with her cash and Erica's like, it was so good to see you. And Tessa's like, it's good to see you too. And Erica's like, Merry Christmas, enjoy your handbag. And Tessa's like, you too.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  God, Tessa, just ask her one question about herself. You'll get an answer. That's the kind of thing of like, okay, I know you, I wanted to hear so much more about that, but I know you have to work. Would love to get coffee before I go back to school.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  See, just, it's great that you have game. Tessa does not have any. Tessa's in the car, like, you know, looking at that little mirror that's like in the flip visor and being like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, why did you say you too? When she said, enjoy your handbag? Why didn't you ask her one question? Like, what is wrong with you? You now have the handbag and you have the teapot. Are you feeling good?

• 47:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  Okay, cool. Tessa doesn't feel good either. She feels insane. She sneaks home, she like sneaks in the handbag in her tote bag. She like tells her dad where it is. And later, her dad is like, it's a little bit smaller than I was expecting. Do you think mom will still like it? And Tessa's like, I never thought she would like it. And her dad's like, I also said to get the cream one. And Tessa's like, I really think she'll like the olive green one better, but truly, I think she would hate it, even if it was custom designed for her.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  And her dad's like, okay, don't worry about it.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  By this point, it is Christmas Eve. Tessa is like, sitting in her room, replaying the conversation with her crush when her mom comes in.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Her mom sees the teapot, like on the little table and is like, oh my God. Everything in that store is a waste of money.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  I do not want you spending your money in there on stupid little things. And Tessa's like, okay, thank you. And her mom sighs. And you know when your mom like starts off with like a light conversation and then her face becomes very serious? And it's like, oh, so that was just lead up to the thing that you actually wanted to talk to me about?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 00

  The mom is like, my friend owns the coffee shop in town. And she says that you've been in there every day this week, staring longingly out the window, wearing sunglasses,

• 49:24Speaker 00

  scoping out the shoppy shop. How do you want to respond to this?

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Was Tessa's crush on Erica known to her parents?

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, it was.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Okay. Then, yeah, I just say, okay, fine, Erica works there and I was trying to avoid her.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  Tessa is like, what, I'm not allowed to go to a coffee shop?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  And her mom is like, well, my friend also said that Erica works in the shoppy shop across the street. And Tessa's like, that's crazy. I didn't know that. And her mom's like, babe, it's like not healthy for you to drive out there day after day and like, spend all your money on stupid things so that you can like pine after Erica.

• 50:10Speaker 00

  Is there anything more mortifying than like this conversation in your mind?

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Probably, but I'd have to work hard to think of it.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  The conversation with your parents about a crush is bad. Conversation with your parents about a crush that you're failing at is worse.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And a crush that reminds you of who you don't want to be anymore.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  Right. It's like, you can imagine that they've had a similar kind of conversation before.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  And Tessa's like, I know that she's not wrong, but this is like awful.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  The next day, they drive to her aunt's house. Tessa sits in the back with the wrapped handbag. They arrive, for the most part, everything's great. They're, Tessa's drinking prosecco. She's like, this is fine. Like, everyone else's gifts go great. Everyone likes them. Her dad opens like a nice new polo. He hates it. He's like, what an extravagant waste. These are the wrong colors. He puts it on. It looks great. Everyone's rolling their eyes. The very last person to open their present is her mother. Are you worried?

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have like a knot of dread in my stomach and like, I want to believe that this is not my problem, but ultimately I'm having trouble letting go of it.

• 51:23Speaker 00

  Tessa's mom picks it up. She pulls off the wrapping paper. She pulls out the handbag. And there is just like silence.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Everyone in this room, right, extended family, is looking at this handbag.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  And then Tessa's mother, her shoulders begin to move and she begins to cry.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  And Tessa is like, oh my God, I fucking told him, like, I told him that this was wrong. I told him that this would break her. Like, she's broken. She's crying. She can't even do the fucking bit that they usually do. This is so bad. And then her mom is like touching the embroidered pigs and she's like, they're so beautiful.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  This dad knows his wife, god damn it.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Her eyes are shining. She's looking at her husband. She's like, how did you know? She loves the handbag. She's like, I've been envying it in the window for weeks. She's like, I'm so excited to tell my friends, like, they've all, we've all been lusting after the handbag. Like, the only thing that could be better is if it had been the cream one.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  And Tessa is like, god damn it. Like, this whole interaction. And she's like thrilled. We've broken this terrible ruse. How are you feeling now?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Relieved. Like, a weight has been lifted.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  Okay, good. I love that for you. On the ride home, her mom's like giving her shit. She's like, do you want to stop in the town and see Erica? Maybe you could spend some more of your money not asking her out. Could be fun for us. Do you tell her that you were only going for her handbag, which she loves? You do.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  I mean, there's no reason not to now.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  It wouldn't absolve me of the part where I went three days in a row with like, but at least it would absolve me of the idea that I was going just to see her.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. Tessa's like, I did this for you. Like, this wasn't about Erica. I had to be strategic because I didn't want you to see. And her mom's like, oh my God, wow, I can't believe it took multiple days and a stakeout to get the handbag. Thank you so much for doing that. You worked so hard.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:28Speaker 00

  We are finally almost at the end. Whose side are you on? How do you feel?

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm on Erica's side.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  Okay, why?

• 53:35Speaker 01

  All she's done is had a little queer awakening and been a pleasure.

• 53:39Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Do you have any hopes or dreams for how this could end?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  I just, I think that even if there's nothing romantic is gonna happen between them, I get the sense that this is a small town.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  That it's not a place where there's a lot of queer community.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  I want them to have another queer person at home who they can hang out with when they're in town.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  I think that is a great hope for them. In the end, Tessa did take the teapot back and she was like, I'm so sorry. I don't want this teapot, even though it was very cute. I just didn't know how to tell you that. I just like, I bought it because I wanted to talk to you.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  And Erica's like, that's totally fine. I kind of thought that that's what was happening, to be honest. And Tessa's like, okay, great. Can I have my $40 back? And Erica's like, yes. And then Tessa used her $40 to take Erica on a date.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 00

  And it was awful. They had absolutely no romantic chemistry.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  This is amazing. She's released from this hold that it had on her.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  Yes. Tessa's like, oh my God, this is actually better than me falling in love with her because she lives on the other side of the world and I'm free.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  This is the best possible scenario.

• 54:49Speaker 00

  Yes. And now you have a queer friend in town who you don't have to date.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  Which is the dream.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  It has now been two years since the handbag Christmas. The handbag is beloved. Everyone compliments the handbag at all times. It gets hand washed very gently with a special brush. It gets hung dry only. The next day, ham sandwiches are the best ones that this family has ever had, apparently. And last year for Christmas, Tessa had a girl to bring home.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, someone willing to fly across oceans to come home with her.

• 55:20Speaker 00

  Yes. Very serious relationship. And, you know, she got to bring her home. And of course, the girlfriend is like, what's up with this handbag? And the problem with the handbag now is that it gives her mom an excuse to tell her new girlfriend all about Erica. And so now everyone calls Erica handbag girl.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  So my, uh, my pick is the loser of this story.

• 55:46Speaker 04

  In a way, inside this family, she's the loser of the story, but she's still friends with Tessa. So it's like, it didn't end up so bad.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  But are they the kind of friends where Tessa can say like, hey, just so you know, everyone in my family calls you handbag girl?

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Definitely.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Okay, awesome.

• 56:02Speaker 04

  Like, my new girlfriend calls you handbag girl is always a good sign that your new girlfriend does not see your friend as competition.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 04

  Which is great. Yeah. And that is the end of our story. Happy handmas.

• 56:18Speaker 04

  Carson, thank you so much for coming on. It was a delight to have you.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 56:28Speaker 04

  Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at [email protected]. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at @McKinneyKelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Su-Jean Loughlin, Ozzy Linus Goodman, and Jay Tolviera. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys.

• 57:10Speaker 04

  Alex Su-Jean Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Lei is our editor in chief. Abigail Segel is our intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandy Jensen, Sabrina Imbler, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Rado, David Roth, Catherine Xu, Jasper Wang, Israel Deramola, and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney.

• 57:56Speaker 04

  I'm Madeline, and remember, you did not hear this from me.