Nate Smith

Nate Smith, the GRAMMY-nominated drummer, composer, and producer, joins Norah in the studio for a conversation about how he got his start, navigating the art of self-promotion in the modern age, and his connection with some of his collaborators.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Nate Smith.

• 1:09Speaker 04

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:15Speaker 04

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:22Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm Nora, and thanks for joining us on the Playing Along Podcast. With me as always, sitting here in front of me in a lovely orange sweater, is Sarah Oda. Thanks, it's actually cherry red. Oh.

• 1:38Speaker 03

  Our guest today is the Grammy-nominated drummer, composer, and producer Nate Smith. His drumming style lends itself to a broad range of music, so he's collaborated with several artists, including Brittany Howard, the Fearless Flyers, Childish Gambino, Yebba, Ravi Coltrane, Pat Metheny, and one Miss, Norah Jones. Hi.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  He also co-wrote and co-produced Heaven Can Wait for Michael Jackson's 2001 Invincible album.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  He's also released two masterful solo drum albums and has a very popular YouTube channel.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Oh, it's very popular.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, with performances, interviews, and more, so be sure to check that out. And his latest album, Live Action, just came out in August of 2025.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  We had a lot of fun. I love him. He's great, great, incredible drummer, fun person to play with. This was really special. I hope you enjoy it. Here we go with Nate Smith.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  Can we just play a little groove real quick?

• 2:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Do something.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  That's our sound check.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  That's it.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 4:05Speaker 05

  That sounds nice.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 05

  Nice, man. That's good.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so great to hear you play. Yay.

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  When did we do that recording session? Was that, that was 2019?

• 4:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, I feel like the record came out in 2020.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it did.

• 4:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:22Speaker 00

  Right, right in the middle of it.

• 4:23Speaker 05

  Yep, right in the middle, smack dab. I had just moved to Nashville and I remember receiving a, a package.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  I was very, very excited.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  And you did a little home, uh, video for the-

• 4:33Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  For, for a video for me.

• 4:36Speaker 05

  I remember setting it up at the crib. I had, I had the phone set up. And I sat, I had my one snare drum. I didn't even have a kick drum in the shot. I had the snare drum.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 05

  And I'd set up and just played and I hoped that I wasn't disturbing my, my neighbors.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Oh, man, thanks for doing that.

• 4:53Speaker 05

  Oh, for sure, for sure. It was fun. I was sad we couldn't do it together.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  I was too. It would have been fun.

• 4:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Cause we had a good time at the session. Did we do two or three songs that-

• 5:03Speaker 00

  We did a few songs, but that's the only one that ever got released.

• 5:06Speaker 05

  Got it.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  And that was with Jesse Murphy.

• 5:08Speaker 05

  Jesse Murphy?

• 5:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, and that was, the song was "To Live."

• 5:10Speaker 05

  "To Live," yes. Jam, a jam.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was fun. You wanna play it?

• 5:14Speaker 05

  Let's play it.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  Yeah?

• 5:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  Why not? We're here.

• 5:17Speaker 05

  Let's get it.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  All right. Then we're gonna dive into some of your music.

• 5:21Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  Which I've been practicing, which is much harder.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  One, two, three.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  To live in this moment and finally be free is what I was-

• 6:09Speaker 04

  After, no chains holding me. If love is the answer in front of my face, I'll live in this moment and find my true place.

• 6:37Speaker 04

  These cracks in my heart can't be filled with cement. Can't find or use up all the time that I've spent. I want a life in color, to breathe outside the lines, to live in this moment, find peace in my mind.

• 7:31Speaker 04

  Who said all those things to make you go and hide? So stuck in your head that you can't come outside. Please throw down the darkness as best as you can and live in this moment. I'll reach out my hand to live in this moment and finally be free is what I was after.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  No chains holding me.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  If love is the answer in front of my face, I'll live in this moment.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  Oh, yes.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so fun to play with you.

• 9:54Speaker 05

  No, thank you so much, man.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  Man, that's great. I'm gonna take my phones off to talk.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  You have such a great groove. I mean, of course, you do.

• 10:05Speaker 05

  Thank you, thank you so much. I mean, you too, you know, it's playing time on piano, like rhythmic piano is a thing. And also the way you comp for yourself too, that's a that's a that's an that's a layer, you know, for that not a lot of people who sing and play piano have that, so you definitely have it.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you.

• 10:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  I've definitely gotten better at it over the years, you know.

• 10:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  I feel like I'm I feel like I'm right now in the groove of my thing.

• 10:35Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  More than ever.

• 10:37Speaker 05

  Yes, and you sound like it.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  It's so nice, isn't it so nice to have a job where you just constantly feel like you're getting better at?

• 10:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, even there are some times when I feel like I'll play a gig and I'll think, you know, man, do that sound good?

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  And especially now within the internet age where your gigs are played back to you.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Oh, gosh.

• 10:57Speaker 05

  People are always out with the phone. You listen back, huh? How did I actually sound, you know? But, you know, overall, I gotta say, you know, I feel kind of in the same way, I feel like I'm settling into a groove too, like really settling into my thing. Which I feel like took me a while to kind of find, you know?

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I don't think most people are 20 years old knowing what their thing is.

• 11:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I'm still finding it at 49.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 05

  You know, in three days, 49.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Oh, happy advanced birthday.

• 11:29Speaker 05

  Thank you, thank you very much. Say, Edge in the house.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  I think, nice. Yeah, I think that's part of, that's part of the joy of this sort of era of our lives.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  I'm in my 40s too.

• 11:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  I feel really, really alive musically, more than ever.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  I feel like in my 20s, I was, I was scared.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  I had, I had a lot of things going on, but I, I was unsure of a lot of it.

• 11:55Speaker 05

  You know, I, I feel like I always was trying to prove or please, you know? That's the other thing, like I was, I was in a lot of situations where I was trying to like, be good enough, you know? And now I kind of feel like I'm in a place where I, I kind of know the things that I'm good at, I know the things that I want to work on for myself. But I kind of know, you know, if people are calling me for something, I know what they're calling for. And I feel like I can walk into a room with a lot more confidence about it. Which, you know, it took a while to get that, but, but I feel like I'm, I'm settling into that kind of swag now, you know?

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  Which feels really good, feels really good.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  It's so great.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. You're in town, you were playing at the Blue Note all week?

• 12:39Speaker 05

  I was at the Blue Note with the Fearless Flyers.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 12:42Speaker 05

  Played four nights, two shows a night.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Okay, that's a lot.

• 12:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  I just did the Blue Note with Robert Glasper.

• 12:47Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  I did five nights.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Doing two shows a night is hard.

• 12:51Speaker 05

  It's hard, I mean.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Because it's too like, full hour fifteen-ish, right?

• 12:55Speaker 05

  Yep. We did, we averaged about, I mean, the second sets were always longer.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:59Speaker 05

  Because we were, you know.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  You were loose.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  We were loose and, and the crowd is a little more loose. Everybody has a little, you know, they're pre-gaming with the liquor, so everybody's a little bit more worked up. So it feels real good. And so we would play maybe sixty-five minutes the first set, and they would turn the house over. And then sometimes the second set would be like, you know, hour fifteen.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:17Speaker 05

  Hour and a half, you know.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, we were going, we were going.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, you must be exhausted.

• 13:21Speaker 05

  I am. I'm worn out.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  I couldn't believe how, how exhausting it was, because, because not only, well, doing two shows, I mean, we're used to playing in clubs back in the day, right? Where you do two or three sets, but I feel like there's never that much time in between.

• 13:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  And at the Blue Note, it's about hour and a half.

• 13:40Speaker 05

  Hour and a half. It's just enough time to get real sleepy.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  And then you have to rev back up.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  For the, for the people, you know.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  And you go, you want to play your best because, you know, people pay their money. They, they, you know, made plans, they hired the sitter, that, you know. But just to let y'all know, it's not always as easy as it looks.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  It's not as easy. That's a hard gig.

• 14:00Speaker 05

  It is.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  But it's a great audience, I feel like.

• 14:03Speaker 05

  Yeah. And, and really a cool place. I mean, you know.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  They're really nice to you there.

• 14:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're nice.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  But it's tiny.

• 14:08Speaker 05

  It is. It is. There's no real, like, hiding place.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  No.

• 14:12Speaker 05

  You're kind of like in it with the fans, which I guess is part of the appeal of the club, too.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's cool.

• 14:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. Did you ever do the Blue Note Cruise or any of that stuff?

• 14:19Speaker 00

  No, have you?

• 14:20Speaker 05

  I did, uh, I did it twice.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  How long was it on a boat? Because that is, that freaks me out.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was like five days.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Okay, I, could you get off at all? Were you docking?

• 14:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, they were docking. I feel like, I don't think I ever got off. I think I just stayed on.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Really?

• 14:35Speaker 05

  You know, I gotta say, it was the best sleep I've had.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  The rocking?

• 14:39Speaker 05

  I mean, the rocking. I was knocked all the way out.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Way down, like, um, but no, the, the Blue Note Cruise is kind of similar because... People are just there. The artists are just walking around.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  You're on a boat with them.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  You're on a boat with them. Like, there's nowhere to go, you know? So, yeah, you can hang out in your cabin all day, but as soon as you walk out, you're gonna see people, "Hey, big man," you know?

• 15:00Speaker 00

  That's part of the fun for people.

• 15:01Speaker 05

  People mistaking me for, you know, "Hey, man, Kendrick, I love your playing, man. You're great."

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Oh, Kendrick Scott.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  "Thanks, I'll take it," you know what I'm saying? People thinking I'm, you know, whoever, you know? Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  Come on, they know your name.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  Well, you know, maybe now, but I definitely got a couple of, uh, "Hey, Brian, man," you-

• 15:20Speaker 00

  Brian Blade?

• 15:20Speaker 05

  A little Brian Blade, which I don't mind. It's the glasses. It's the glasses.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  It's the glasses, it's the style.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I don't, and I don't mind either one. I'll take all of, all of my compliments to me, because I love them brothers, so.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 15:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 15:34Speaker 05

  Yep.

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• 19:02Speaker 00

  And you're living in Nashville? No, you moved.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  I moved. I just moved, uh, in January, I moved to Virginia, back home.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  Oh, nice.

• 19:09Speaker 05

  So my, I'm from Chesapeake originally.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  How far is that from DC? I don't know Virginia at all.

• 19:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, so Chesapeake is four hours by car southeast of DC, well, three and a half.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  So not really close.

• 19:20Speaker 05

  Not super close. Richmond is half that, two hours away. That's where I live, in Richmond, Virginia.

• 19:25Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 19:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I lived there, um, for like four years before I moved to New York. So I, I was, and I went to grad school there. I'm born and raised in Virginia, so I was there for my whole life until I came to New York.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  You went to grad school?

• 19:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I did. I, I started grad school.

• 19:43Speaker 00

  Oh, for, for music or for something else?

• 19:45Speaker 05

  No, it was music, uh.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  Well, you graduated, it's okay. You graduated in my book. You got this.

• 19:51Speaker 05

  I got the School of Hard Knocks degree, the honorary, uh, yeah, I, yeah. Uh, no, I, I start, so I went to James Madison University undergrad, and I wasn't a music major. I, I majored in media arts and design.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 20:03Speaker 05

  Yeah. Back in the day, they used to call it mass communication.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  What's media arts and design? Is that handy now with social media?

• 20:09Speaker 05

  It kinda is, actually. I, I, I end up using a lot of the, the stuff I learned because it was, you know, we studied advertising, we studied like branding, we studied all that stuff.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Well, now you gotta be your own PR person as a musician, which is a whole other thing.

• 20:23Speaker 05

  Whole other layer.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  It's a whole other brain type.

• 20:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  Right?

• 20:27Speaker 05

  Yes, and, and, you know, I feel like it kind of worked out in my favor because some of the ideas, I still kinda go back to that, you know, introduction to mass communication class where the guy was talking about how to reach an audience and how to engage an audience.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 05

  So it, it, you know, it works, and I've seen it work really great for some other musicians, and I've paid attention to what they've done, you know? And also I've seen it, you know, not work so great for other, you know, so I'm, I'm.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  But you're aware of that whole thing.

• 20:54Speaker 05

  I am.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you've done some online videos that are pretty huge.

• 20:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, social media was, I mean, I guess, like everybody, I joined Facebook, I think 2009, that was when, you know, it was a brown, and then.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  Instagram was a few years later, like 2012. I feel like I got my first. And so I didn't really start posting videos of myself playing drums until like maybe 2015, 16.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 21:26Speaker 05

  But then, once I saw that the videos were resonating, then I was like, okay, well, let me just keep posting stuff. And I'll just, you know, and it was around the same time that I started Kenfolk and I was trying to make the record.

• 21:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 05

  Trying to sort of build an audience. And I was paying attention to cats who were doing that, building their audience online. And hoping that, you know, a fraction of that audience would pay tickets, would buy tickets to come see me play.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  And it worked.

• 21:50Speaker 05

  It worked.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 21:52Speaker 05

  It's a slow burn, but it did work.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  That's, I mean, that's how it is now. That's how you have to do it, I think.

• 21:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, music, I think now, more than ever, music is almost a visual art form now.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  I know.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  Because we're thinking about, you know, like, how the, you know, how we're branding our cover art and our promo flyers and our, all that stuff. We're thinking about it so much, you know? And I don't know if that's necessarily a good or bad thing, but I do think that the two are.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  It's just the way it is.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  It's just the way it is.

• 22:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:22Speaker 05

  It's just the way it is. I mean, you know, I don't know how I feel about streaming. Is streaming good or bad? I don't know, but it is, it is what it is. It's how, yeah, right, right, right. Hey, I know, but.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  I don't know. As someone who sold a lot of records in the early 2000s.

• 22:35Speaker 05

  I dig it.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  I would say it's not great for artists.

• 22:36Speaker 05

  I can dig it.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  But it's just the way it is.

• 22:39Speaker 05

  It's just the way it is. I mean.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  You can't.

• 22:40Speaker 05

  The audience has made up. Yeah. The audience has made up its mind about how people want to consume music.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  I mean, you definitely can reach so many more people this way.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  And streaming too.

• 22:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  And it's crazy, though. It's like, I don't think a record label will even look at anybody who doesn't have an online presence and a lot of followers.

• 23:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it sucks because a lot of great artists who really just want to make great music. Aren't visible.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  And they're not, they're not thinking about self-promotion all the time.

• 23:11Speaker 05

  All the time.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  You have to think about it, even if you're not naturally inclined to or not.

• 23:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's, um, because there's so much stuff and there are so many people. You know, the idea of like making yourself seen so you can be found, you know what I mean? That's kind of the vibe. It's like, you know, I want to just, just see me do my thing. See me sing or play my instrument or whatever. And hopefully my audience, the people that it really resonates with will find me. It's just a new reality for artists.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Well, speaking of Kenfolk.

• 23:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  So that, that band started, you started that band around 2015?

• 23:48Speaker 05

  Uh, 2014, actually. We played our, no, I'm sorry. We played our first gig at Rockwood.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 23:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, 2013.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 23:56Speaker 05

  Labor Day weekend, 2013.

• 23:58Speaker 00

  Was John in the band, John Coward yet?

• 24:00Speaker 05

  Initially, it was, um, Jaleel Shaw on saxophone, FEMA Ephron on bass. Uh, Chris Bowers was playing piano at the time.

• 24:08Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 24:08Speaker 05

  Um, Jeremy Most was playing guitar and, uh, Amma Watt was, was singing with us. And she wrote all the lyrics to the, to the music, too.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  Oh, nice. Yeah. So she sings on this song that we're gonna try.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  This is her song and your song.

• 24:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  It's called Morning in Allison. Is this from the first album?

• 24:26Speaker 05

  It is.

• 24:26Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 24:27Speaker 05

  It is, yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  All right.

• 24:29Speaker 05

  Let's give it a go.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  Let's give it a go.

• 24:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Sunday morning, she says to rise, waking up slowly.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Open window, setting my eyes, feeling the wind blow.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  Black tree line universe Me at the center A humble, innocent star

• 25:39Speaker 04

  What the day brings, let it surprise Time to run outdoors

• 25:51Speaker 04

  Searching the places Exploring the changes My body don't have a sin complete

• 26:59Speaker 04

  Sunday morning, she says to rise Waking up slowly

• 27:11Speaker 04

  Open windows, sun in my eyes Feeling the wind blow

• 27:24Speaker 00

  My tree line universe. Me at the center, oh, innocent star. What the day brings, let it surprise. Time to run outdoors. Searching the places. Exploring the changes. My morning on Alice and Co.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  That's hard.

• 28:23Speaker 05

  Yo, you killed it. You killed it. Yes, indeed.

• 28:27Speaker 00

  That was beautiful.

• 28:28Speaker 05

  Thank you. Thank you. Shout out to I'm a What for those lyrics.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're great. And, um, yeah. It was cool playing it too. I never play songs like this.

• 28:37Speaker 05

  Right, right. Yeah, it's like, you know, kind of, I mean, I guess the mixed meter sort of, it's like six, four, four, four thing.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  But I didn't think about that at all.

• 28:48Speaker 05

  Right.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  You sent me that chart, which was super helpful for the chords.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  But I didn't look at the time signatures because I felt like just feeling it was easier.

• 28:56Speaker 05

  That's the, to me, that's the greatest sort of, um, I mean, that's kind of the intention is like, even if you're writing in mixed meter stuff, it should feel as non.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 05

  I don't know. It should just feel natural, you know?

• 29:12Speaker 00

  It shouldn't feel like you're counting.

• 29:14Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, it definitely doesn't. It feels so good.

• 29:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  So it was six and then four?

• 29:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 05

  One, two, three, four.

• 29:25Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 29:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, right, right. So as soon as you count, it's like, oh no. Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:29Speaker 05

  No, it's just, yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  The Indian in me is like, okay, I know how to do this, but I don't do a lot of mixed meter stuff.

• 29:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, it's kind of a thing. It's like one of those, I kind of have always heard

• 29:41Speaker 05

  music in that way, either like three bar phrases, or mixed meter stuff, or maybe odd meter stuff, but

• 29:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 05

  in a way that kind of feels like, um, still has a little dance to it.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 05

  It feels natural. Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  If you can't dance to it, I mean.

• 29:56Speaker 05

  No. That's the vibe. I mean, and I, I played with, you know, New York taught me a lot, man. I played with a lot of musicians who, excuse me, would overwrite or sort of overthink, in my opinion.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  Like, it was kind of like, you know, the music was hard just to be hard, you know?

• 30:13Speaker 00

  I hate that.

• 30:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's just, I, you know, and, and there were so many things to remember and so many booby traps written into the music that it was like, it was almost impossible to play it. It was like, you know, I mean, you, if you shed it long enough, everything's hard until you, you learn it.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, like a language, it's a language.

• 30:29Speaker 05

  It's like a language, you know, but I felt like sometimes the intention in the writing was to like, trip up people or trip up musicians or, or impress other musicians.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  Impress especially, I think.

• 30:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  When, when you can't turn your brain off and just go in the flow state.

• 30:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  It's not as good.

• 30:44Speaker 05

  It's not as good. It's not as good. I mean, it has to be, for some, I, I don't know, for me, I feel like music should be enjoyable. You know what I mean? I think it should be, you know.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 30:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I feel like it should be.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Different strokes, you know?

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Different, you know, some people want to like, show up and like, you know, like kind of solve a math problem, you know, it's like.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 31:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  I'm not one of those people.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  Me neither. Me neither. Even though the, the music is, has some hiccups in it, I'm not thinking like that.

• 31:11Speaker 01

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• 32:25Speaker 00

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• 32:34Speaker 06

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• 32:45Speaker 07

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• 33:01Speaker 06

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• 33:04Speaker 04

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• 33:46Speaker 00

  What did you grow up listening to? Like, where does all this come from?

• 33:50Speaker 05

  So, my dad's record collection is where it starts for me. Both of my folks were teachers. My mom taught third grade. And my dad was a high school principal.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 34:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, and so they worked hard all, you know, all week. And the weekend was really the time to sort of hang out and celebrate. So, all their friends would come over and dad would put on records. And at the time, it was sort of like the golden age of like instrumental R&B. So, it was like David Sanborn.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  Bob James, Quincy Jones, Herbie Hancock, you know. Those are the records that were in the house. George Duke.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 34:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, and they were, you know, cranking it. They were playing it, you know. And Earth, Wind & Fire and Michael Jackson, all the big stars, too. But the stuff that was really in the house that he was playing on a regular basis was that. He kind of really dug that music. There was something in it that resonated with him. So, I just, you know, kind of soaked it all up. And, you know, this, my journey with the drums sort of began with my brother. My older brother has, had a drum kit and he played a little bit in high school. He's 10 years older than me.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  So, when he went away to college.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  Is he the oldest?

• 35:00Speaker 05

  No, so there's two older than him.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 35:02Speaker 05

  So, I have a half-brother who's 14 years older than me. I have a sister who's 12 years older than me than my brother.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  And then you're 10 years younger.

• 35:09Speaker 05

  10 years, yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  That's a lot.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was definitely a surprise.

• 35:15Speaker 05

  I just showed up. They thought they were done. But yeah, my bro, he went away to school and he went away to college and his drums were still in the house. So I just, one day, decided to sort of set the drums up and see what I could do with them. And this was around the time I started playing in school too, like concert band, you know.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Like middle school?

• 35:36Speaker 05

  Middle school, yeah, like fifth grade. So playing like snare drum and, you know, glack and spiel and, you know. So that all kind of happened concurrently for me. The drum set and high school band and middle school band.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  Okay, were you on the drum line?

• 35:50Speaker 05

  I was. I was a marching band geek.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  I'm obsessed with the drum line. It's the best feeling in the world to just see it and feel it in your bones.

• 35:59Speaker 05

  Yes, it is incredible. I was so like drum corps international. I was like watching those competitions. I was writing my own drum line stuff.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  Really?

• 36:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I was really into it. I was a complete percussion ensemble.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 36:13Speaker 05

  Marching band nerd, yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 00

  I did marching band for one year and I was, I was all in. I played saxophone.

• 36:18Speaker 05

  Saxophone, yes, yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 00

  But I was always looking at the drummers.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  It's a vibe, man, because, you know, we, not only this, the sort of, you know, the rudimental and rudimentary dexterity and all the stuff that the guys were doing, but also the visual things the drummers were doing.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's so cool.

• 36:33Speaker 05

  It was really cool to watch. And so I just got way into it, got absorbed by it, shed it all the time. And would try to like play some of that stuff on the drum set too. And that's kind of the sort of beginning. So marching band and stuff during the day and then at night, I'd come home and listen to like Sting or Prince or Peter Gabriel or whatever.

• 36:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 05

  And it was like, that was my life, you know.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 36:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Were you into jazz at that time?

• 36:58Speaker 05

  Jazz kind of came later. So my senior year in high school, I discovered an Art Blakey record called Album of the Year. It came out and I think it was like.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  Best title of any album ever made, by the way.

• 37:10Speaker 05

  I love it. The band was, I think it was Winton, Bill Pierce, Bobby Watson, and I think Charles Ramblow bass. But, but that was the band and it was like.

• 37:26Speaker 05

  It blew me away. And this was near the end, I think this was like, Art Blakey had kind of lost most of his hearing by this time, or he had, you know. So the time wasn't quite as like rock solid as the older records, but he still had that riot symbol, he still had that press role, you know. And I was just captivated by it. I was just like, what is this sorcery that I've never heard before?

• 37:49Speaker 00

  That's the best feeling in the world.

• 37:50Speaker 05

  It really was.

• 37:51Speaker 00

  To discover something.

• 37:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  And have it move you.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  I listened to that album, I mean, hundreds of times. I wore my, my poor dad, man, he, I know he was so tired of it.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  He's like, put on the other stuff.

• 38:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, put on some George Duke. What are you doing? But that was like the gateway.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  You know, and then, um, then later, you know, I discovered Miles, which, you know, by extension, I discovered Jimmy Cobb and Tony Williams and, you know. Then discovered Train, and I discovered Elvin, you know. And Elvin was another one that was like, I didn't know you could do that, you know. Just watch, I saw videos of him playing too, like old videos. And I was just like, what is he doing? How is he doing it so, you know, it was, it was like magic, you know?

• 38:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:37Speaker 05

  So that, that was the beginning of, so this is like, uh, senior year in high school, freshman year in college, sophomore year in college, yeah.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  And you were studying media, but were you playing in bands already?

• 38:48Speaker 05

  All the bands in school.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  You're playing in every band?

• 38:49Speaker 05

  I just, I wanted to play in every band. It was like, I played in the, the small group, um, the school small group, the school big band.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  So you played in school too? You were doing music in school as well?

• 39:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. I was doing, I mean, I wasn't a music major, but I was playing in all the, the bands, you know? Um, and, and that was like, I started as a music major. Then I realized that I kind of wanted to learn more about like the studio and more about just a different side of the, of the business. So that's when media.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  Smart.

• 39:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I just wanted to learn a little more of it, of just, just not like, sticking to sort of the rigid like. I mean, theory and ear training have definitely come in handy too, but I wanted to learn more about like the outside.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, you were already playing.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  I was already playing, you know? Uh, yeah, so that was, that was the beginning of my journey with jazz.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, and everything.

• 39:37Speaker 05

  And everything, yeah.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Ah, drum corps.

• 39:39Speaker 05

  Drum corps was it, yeah. Drum corps was it. I, I, and, and all, also between, uh, semesters in the summer, I was working. I had three jobs that kind of prepared me for, so my first two summers, I worked at Paramount's King's Dominion, which is a theme park near Richmond.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  Doing what?

• 39:59Speaker 05

  I played in a Motown band.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  Oh, perfect. Best practice in the world.

• 40:03Speaker 05

  It was awesome. It was awesome. It was just like, we played four shows a day. It was hot.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Four shows a day?

• 40:09Speaker 05

  Four shows a day, in the sweltering heat.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 40:12Speaker 05

  And we played hits from the seventies, eighties, nineties, something like that. And, you know, had to wear this ugly ass Hawaiian shirt with like these white pants. It was just terrible. It was terrible. There, there are, there are pictures and video.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Oh, I want to see that.

• 40:27Speaker 05

  Oh, god.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  But it was a great teacher, right?

• 40:30Speaker 05

  It was a great teacher. A great teacher. I learned, we played a bunch of tunes, a bunch of different styles. Then my third summer, I worked at Disney.

• 40:38Speaker 00

  In Florida?

• 40:38Speaker 05

  In Florida, in Epcot.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  That's also very hot.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  Yes, and we did another four show a day, but we had guest artists every week.

• 40:44Speaker 00

  Oh, like a name?

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  We had, uh, Joe Williams came one year.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 40:50Speaker 05

  We had, uh, one, one, one week, we had Ramsey Lewis there, we had, uh, Diane Reeves.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  That's incredible.

• 40:56Speaker 05

  She was the game changer for me.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, really?

• 40:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, she was great.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 05

  And, um, yeah, that was the, it all kind of was sort of preparing me. While I was there, I met Andre Hayward, who was a trombonist, and, um, he had just done Jazz Ahead with Betty Carter. And he was like, you should be Betty. So he was how I, I met her and started playing with her.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 41:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 00

  And did you and Chris Thomas overlap with Betty?

• 41:20Speaker 05

  No, I, I didn't know Chris. I, I, I didn't, I, when I was in the band, uh, Curtis Lundey was her regular bass player, and he'd been with her for a long time.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  I love her so much.

• 41:29Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 41:30Speaker 00

  What a diff, that, I've kind of felt that way when I got one of her albums. I was like, this is different.

• 41:35Speaker 05

  She's incredibly different.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  So different.

• 41:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, and, and I kind of feel like, you know, she said this in an interview, she was like,

• 41:43Speaker 05

  Something to the effect of, you know, I'm the last jazz singer. Or I'm, or after me, there are no more jazz singers. And I kind of got what she meant because of the way that she would like stretch form and, you know, sort of elongate rhythm and just kind of this elasticity in her singing and her phrasing. But she was always aware of where everything was.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  She was. She wasn't just, yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  No, she wasn't willy nilly. She was always, she always knew. And I feel like you, you can kind of look at like, okay, well, here's, here's a Cassandra Wilson and then maybe even like a Gretchen Parlato or somebody like that. There's like kind of a thing. I can kind of see a thread there, you know? So she was, she was very special.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's so amazing you got to play with her.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  Yeah. Not long, I mean, the last couple of years of her life, I played on and off with her.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  All right.

• 42:30Speaker 05

  And I did Jazz Ahead with her twice.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, what is Jazz Ahead?

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Oh, right. So Jazz Ahead, and this is actually a good promo for Jazz Ahead because it's still happening.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:39Speaker 05

  So Jazz Ahead was a residency that Betty Carter started. At the time, I think it was here in New York. And she would bring a dozen or so musicians, maybe a little more, together and young musicians. And so she would introduce them to each other and they would all bring in their own compositions and rehearse for a week together and learn each other's tunes. And then they played two concerts at the end of the, of the, of the week.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 43:06Speaker 05

  It was incredible. It was really incredible.

• 43:08Speaker 00

  Because it's more interactive than just like mentoring.

• 43:11Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 43:11Speaker 00

  It's like everybody gets to be themselves.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, and build community. You know, I'm still cool with people at Jazz. I met Jason Moran at Jazz Ahead.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 43:18Speaker 05

  I met Casey Benjamin at Jazz Ahead, you know?

• 43:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  So these are, these are all great musicians who are still kind of out here doing amazing things, you know?

• 43:25Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 43:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  And she started it.

• 43:27Speaker 05

  She started it, yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  That's so great.

• 43:29Speaker 05

  And she, so we did, the first year I did it was 1996. And then the second year I did it, it was April of 98. And it had moved to the Kennedy Center, where it still is. And that night, they announced that they were gonna keep doing Jazz Ahead. You know, we're gonna start Jazz Ahead here at the Kennedy Center. She was so happy. And then sadly, she passed away, like, I think, four or five months later, like September.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 43:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  But she knew it was gonna continue.

• 43:54Speaker 05

  She knew it was gonna keep doing, yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 43:56Speaker 05

  It's great. So Jazz Ahead was really, really good to me. And it also exposed me to musicians my age who were Playing at a super high level. And I hadn't really seen that. Who were touring, you know.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, is this before you moved to New York?

• 44:10Speaker 05

  It was before, way before, yeah.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  So, yeah, you weren't in a big hub of that.

• 44:14Speaker 05

  No, I wasn't. I, I, I had kind of been sort of in the Virginia kind of bubble. And I can come in there and I was like, wow, this. Number one, it makes you want to get better. And then number two, it's like, you know, you can, you actually see that it's possible to do it, you know?

• 44:29Speaker 00

  And it also makes you better.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  Playing with musicians who are better.

• 44:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, yes.

• 44:34Speaker 00

  Makes you better.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  It makes you better. And that's, that's the mantra of my life, actually.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  That's why I play with Brian Blade.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  That's right, hey, man.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  He makes me better.

• 44:41Speaker 05

  And Brian Blade makes everybody better, man.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, he makes me better.

• 44:44Speaker 05

  He's, he's just, he's the greatest. He's the greatest. But yeah, that was, that was Jazz Ahead. And that was my, my time with Betty.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 44:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. She was so important.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment

• 46:07Speaker 00

  that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 46:18Speaker 06

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 46:29Speaker 07

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.

• 46:45Speaker 06

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 46:49Speaker 04

  This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  You play with a lot of singers, and you play with Brittany Howard.

• 47:34Speaker 05

  Brittany Howard.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Who I love.

• 47:35Speaker 05

  She is.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  She's like another unique, wonderful voice in this world.

• 47:41Speaker 05

  One of one.

• 47:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:42Speaker 05

  She's just so, she's a very special person.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  She's great.

• 47:45Speaker 05

  In all ways, yeah, yeah. She really is. We, we, before I met her, the year before I met her, I feel like I played the second Alabama Shakes album, Sound and Color.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Oh, you did?

• 47:56Speaker 05

  I feel like, no, I didn't play on it. I just played it.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  You were playing it.

• 47:59Speaker 05

  I was listening to it for like a year.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 48:02Speaker 05

  Like every day for a year. So somewhere in my mind, I feel like I summoned Brittany Howard. I was like reaching out to her.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  I believe in that stuff.

• 48:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. I really, I was just like, you know, she's so special. The band was great. You know, no shade at all to the guys in the band, but Brittany was definitely the star, you know, of the band. And the creative force of it, you know. So and then out of, out of. Nowhere. I got an email from her manager about playing with her.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  Was the first thing, the album?

• 48:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, Jamie.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Jamie, which is such a great album.

• 48:37Speaker 05

  It's a dope dope record.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  And I know how much she loves you too, because I've seen her talk about you. And it's just such a special connection you guys have.

• 48:45Speaker 05

  It really is.

• 48:46Speaker 00

  She worships you. She loves playing with you.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  It definitely goes both ways. I mean, I think that she's a very special. I mean, I use that word a lot, but she's just.

• 48:57Speaker 00

  No, she is.

• 48:58Speaker 05

  She is, you know?

• 48:59Speaker 00

  She's unique.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  She's unique. There's no one like her, you know? Very few, and historically, very few like her, you know? Like a woman of color, standing in front of a band with a guitar, playing her ass off.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's a great guitar player.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  Yeah. You know, and so it's like, it's, that's, she's Haley's comet, man. She's very special.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  She also kind of has this, the way she sings, she's got a really beautiful voice, but she just sings with such conviction of what she's saying. And she's just, she's not precious about anything, yet she has a beautiful voice. So that's a really nice combo of like, just badassery.

• 49:38Speaker 05

  Oh, man. Yeah, the ultimate badassery. Yeah, she's fantastic, man. She's fantastic.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  So she did, she did a song on your Ken Folk album.

• 49:48Speaker 05

  She did.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  On the newer one?

• 49:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, the one that came out, it came out 2021.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's great.

• 49:53Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Is that John Coward on the piano?

• 49:56Speaker 05

  John Coward on piano?

• 49:57Speaker 00

  I could totally hear that.

• 49:58Speaker 05

  Yes, our man, our man. Love John. Johnny C.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  Johnny C.

• 50:02Speaker 05

  Can Do, that's what we call him. Can Do.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  Well, can we do a version of it?

• 50:06Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  That's me not trying to be Britney, but, um.

• 50:09Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  But loving her very much.

• 50:11Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Do my, my version of this song is, it's beautiful.

• 50:17Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 50:18Speaker 00

  Did you guys write this together?

• 50:19Speaker 05

  We did. I'd written the melody. We'd been playing it as an instrumental for a little while. And then I, I, it was written in dedication to my dad. And I'm not a lyricist, so I wanted to reach out to her. I said, you know, would you consider writing some lyrics? And she was like, sure. She said, send it to me. And I sent it to her. And she, the text thread is very funny of the ideas that were going back and forth. But she just kind of turned it around super fast and she's, and it's brilliant.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  That's great. It's a really beautiful sentiment.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  Thank you, yeah, yeah, you know, for pop.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  I wanna fly away.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  Fly to a place I have never known.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Won't look behind me. Nothing can bring me down. When I get off the ground.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  I have no fear at all.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  I forget that I could ever fall.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  I wanna go. Where no one can keep me bound.

• 52:03Speaker 00

  When I get off the ground.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  No more will I worry.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  I have no reason why.

• 52:20Speaker 00

  If you could see me fly. You'd smile with me.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  I wanna fly away.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  Where we could all be together.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  I wanna feel that kind of warmth you get.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  Beside the sun.

• 53:42Speaker 04

  No more will I worry.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  I have no reason why.

• 53:54Speaker 04

  If you could see me fly, you'd smile at me.

• 54:06Speaker 04

  I wanna fly away,

• 54:11Speaker 04

  where we could all be together.

• 54:17Speaker 04

  I wanna feel that kinda warmth you gave beside the sun.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  I'm gonna fly away.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  I can see the end of the runway now.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  Won't look behind me. Nothing can keep me down now that I'm on the ground.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  It'll be nothing but blue skies now, now that I'm on the ground.

• 55:17Speaker 05

  Love it. Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  That's such a beautiful song.

• 55:20Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. You played a gorgeous intro.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  I almost started crying a little bit.

• 55:26Speaker 05

  Thank you, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a special one.

• 55:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's for your dad.

• 55:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:30Speaker 00

  It's really sweet.

• 55:31Speaker 05

  Yeah. Been thinking about him a lot as I get a little older, you know, I keep, you know, every day since, since he's been gone. He passed away in 2015.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:40Speaker 05

  So, since he's been gone, I've thought a lot about him, thought about him a lot.

• 55:43Speaker 00

  I bet.

• 55:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, and, and I see him now, like, I, I look in the mirror, I'm like, oh. Okay, well.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  He looks like him.

• 55:51Speaker 05

  Oh, man, it's like, he's, oh, he's right there, right there, you know.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 55:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  With two, um, teacher, parents, well, principal and a teacher.

• 56:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  Did you guys do a lot of vacations on the school breaks or something?

• 56:07Speaker 05

  We did, we didn't go too far, we would go visit family mostly. So, my mom is from Salem, Virginia, which is western Virginia. So, it's, um, heading toward like the Virginia, West Virginia border, so that, you know. And so she, her, her people are out there, um, we would go visit my grandmother out there and we would stay, uh, for a good chunk of the summer out there. Those are great summers, man. And, um, my dad, his family was close by to where we lived, so his, so my.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 56:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, grandma and granddad, they were, they were right there, so we saw them regularly.

• 56:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  So, going to see Grandma Irene was like a special, it was a special trip.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it was, it was cool, I, I really, really loved those, um, those summers, we had a really good time. I had a bunch of cousins up there too, so we would all, you know, it was like, those were my, uh, those were actually like, like my, my sibling group there, you know, because we were the same age.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  Your siblings were so much older.

• 57:01Speaker 05

  They were so much older, yeah, yeah, so it was.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  Oh, that's cool.

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, I kinda had like slightly sort of old, only child vibes in the house.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, it makes sense.

• 57:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  Well, that's why you named your album Kinfolk, maybe?

• 57:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  Because your family's pretty important.

• 57:14Speaker 05

  It's very important, and always looking for it too, like, always finding family, you know.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Your friend family.

• 57:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:20Speaker 00

  It's pretty special.

• 57:21Speaker 05

  It is.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  It's a nice community, being a musician.

• 57:25Speaker 05

  It is.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  And it's varied.

• 57:27Speaker 05

  Really?

• 57:28Speaker 00

  And it's all over the world.

• 57:29Speaker 05

  All over the world, I mean, yeah, I, you know, I did this thing in Montreal earlier this year, and it was, um.

• 57:36Speaker 05

  I did three nights and I got to do three different bands. So the first night was Lionel Uweke and Michael Leeg, both of whom I've known for a while. And the second night was Kiefer, the pianist Kiefer, and the bassist Cartoons. They're more, they're younger guys and they're kind of in this, this hip-hop jazz space, you know? And the third night was with Corey Wong and Victor Wooten.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 57:59Speaker 05

  So it was just a very varied, like, wide circle. But it felt great. All three nights were great and just, you know, reignited this idea for me that, you know, the musical community, the extended family, the family is so important. It's everything.

• 58:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like a hug.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  It is, it is.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  With Kenfolk, the idea was that I came to New York kind of on my own and didn't really know that many people. I knew a few people, but I, you know. And so that all the people that are in the band are people that I feel like I had some kind of familial connection with, you know, musically.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:41Speaker 05

  So that's why, that's how it kind of came. Yeah, part of it.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the best. Playing with people who feel like family.

• 58:48Speaker 05

  Yes, yes. And, you know, over the years, as we've, you know, endured the slings and arrows of touring.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  Which, if you're not out there with someone.

• 58:58Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:59Speaker 05

  It's gotta be right. It's gotta, you gotta be out there with people that are good people.

• 59:03Speaker 00

  It can be miserable.

• 59:04Speaker 05

  It really can, it really can. So shout out to Kenfolk, when we toured last year, the band that we had been working with, which was Brad Allen Williams on guitar, Johnny C, our man, John Coward on piano, who's always just a groove to be around.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's just sweet.

• 59:18Speaker 05

  He's a really great guy. FEMA Ephron on bass, Jaleel Shaw on saxophone, and Ama, of course. Ama was great.

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 59:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, Ama What was amazing, so, indeed.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 59:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  And tell me about, what about the solo drum thing? Because not everybody does that.

• 59:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was heavily inspired by Max Roach's Drums Unlimited album.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 05

  And I, I, so this is actually the second installment of it. This is, um, the first one, Pocket Change, came out in 2018. So this is Pocket Change 2, it's coming out Thursday, December 14.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  You think you could give me a little sample?

• 59:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, actually, I can.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  Not to put you on the spot.

• 59:55Speaker 05

  Oh, no, not at all, no, no.

• 59:56Speaker 00

  It is what you do.

• 59:57Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, this is, you know what I'm saying? You know, you can't show up and sit in front of me.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  I won't, I won't play notes.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:36Speaker 05

  Okay, that's it. Now, the rest, you gotta get on Bandcamp or whatever.

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  That's rad. Yeah, I was dancing.

• 1:00:43Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's so funny because the first one I put out, um, I put it out in four formats. I did a vinyl, I did, um, streaming, of course. I did, uh, a transcription book. And I did a sample pack for producers to use, you know?

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 1:00:59Speaker 05

  So I'm kind of pretty much doing the same thing this time. I'm not sure about vinyl this time around, maybe, but, but one, one thing I noticed was that a lot of like choreographers and dance teachers would take the record and teach their whole classes using the record.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  That is so cool.

• 1:01:13Speaker 05

  Which I thought was actually, that's kind of perfect, you know? It's perfect for that. So I've got, you know, I'm looking forward to, I saw so many people tagging me in like their dance videos, tap dancers doing incredible stuff. Yeah, it's really cool.

• 1:01:23Speaker 00

  Is it a through piece or are there breaks?

• 1:01:26Speaker 05

  Separate tracks, yeah.

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  Separate tracks, okay.

• 1:01:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's separate tracks. So there's like, um, and everything is like, uh... Three or so minutes, so I'll start with like a little theme, something like that, and then sort of like deviate and kind of play around it.

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 05

  And sometimes I'll come back to the theme, sometimes I'll just kind of stop, you know, and it just feels like it's it's complete, you know.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  So is it improvised or is it?

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  All improvised.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  All improvised.

• 1:01:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would just probably like set up a, I would have a tempo in my head, I'd set it up, set up a click, and then I would do maybe one, maybe two takes, but most of the time just one take, like start to start to top, just top to bottom.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  That is so cool.

• 1:02:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, so it, and and I was amazed, it's like, you know, I put out Kenfolk in 2017, and it was like, you know, Big Ben, Big Budget, guest artists, all of that, yeah, great, man, all cool. And it came out, did all the press, and then after that, it was like, huh, okay. What, I I still saw, the only thing people were sharing were these 60-minute snippets of, 60-second snippets of me playing the drums.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  Just solo.

• 1:02:24Speaker 05

  Solo. So I was like, you know what, I might as well just do that.

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  Well, you can do both, but yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, I might, I might as well just just do that too, you know, just give them that. That was the the thing. So that was the beginning of the pocket change thing.

• 1:02:37Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 1:02:38Speaker 05

  Yes, indeed.

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  Well, great.

• 1:02:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, and then.

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  I want to dance to it.

• 1:02:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  I just want to put it on, have to see my kids dance.

• 1:02:44Speaker 05

  Oh, that, it's it's going down, it's going down. I've seen a lot of, people have have tagged, you know, their their babies reacting to it.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  I bet.

• 1:02:54Speaker 05

  You know, or like there, sometimes they'll put it on and like, you know, they'll they'll start like, do like meditations and stuff to it. It's it's really incredible, it's really amazing.

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  It's really interesting.

• 1:03:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  I've never listened to anything like that.

• 1:03:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, it's it's really cool.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  That's that's amazing.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

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• 1:03:41Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic, but in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:04:37Speaker 06

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party systems: cloud platforms, data pipelines,

• 1:05:21Speaker 06

  AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Annapola Assis and Acts as CIO, Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:06:05Speaker 07

  Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  Well, thank you so much. This has been so fun.

• 1:06:46Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  I was wondering if we should play that song, that Leonard Cohen song.

• 1:06:51Speaker 05

  Yes, I would love to.

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  You, um, you played on that whole album. It's a tribute to Leonard Cohen.

• 1:06:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, "Here It Is," um, and produced by Larry Klein.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's so good.

• 1:07:02Speaker 05

  It's so good.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  You know, he asked me to do it and I was, I really loved this song he suggested for me because it was a later-written song of Leonard's.

• 1:07:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  Not something old that's been done over and over.

• 1:07:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  And it's an incredible song.

• 1:07:17Speaker 05

  It's a great tune. And you, I mean, you sang the hell out of it, too.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  Oh, thanks. Well, it was crazy because, you know, we couldn't get together.

• 1:07:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  And I knew that you guys were gonna pre-record it.

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  And it was an incredible band. It was, it was you, Frizzell, Bill Frizzell.

• 1:07:34Speaker 05

  Bill Frizzell, Scott Colley on bass, Kevin Hayes on piano.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  And Emmanuel Wilkins on saxophone.

• 1:07:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like, it was this great band. I was so bummed I couldn't be there in person.

• 1:07:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was, it was really cool. I think the only person I met who's on the record, I think Nathaniel Ratliff happened to be in L.A.

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, because you guys did it in L.A.

• 1:07:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. So, um, but that was, I think he was the only... Of all the guest artists, the only one who cut in studio with us.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  It's beautiful. I was surprised because the, you know, when you, when you're not with somebody and they do something and then you had to add your vocals, there's always a sense of disconnection.

• 1:08:14Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  And this didn't feel that way.

• 1:08:17Speaker 05

  Right. It didn't. I mean.

• 1:08:18Speaker 00

  It felt really great.

• 1:08:19Speaker 05

  Felt really great. Man, the band, you know, I, I love Scott, man. I, I think Scott is one of the baddest bass players.

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Speaker 05

  I think he's great. I think, um, and I never played with Frizzell either.

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  Really? Oh, that must've been fun.

• 1:08:31Speaker 05

  He's great and the sweetest person.

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 1:08:33Speaker 05

  Just the nicest man.

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:35Speaker 05

  And I hope I get to play with him again. And I just met Emmanuel that day too, so there, and I'd known Kevin Hayes for a while.

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  I'm gonna use my headphones.

• 1:08:46Speaker 05

  Let's get in there.

• 1:08:52Speaker 05

  You want me to start it?

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Speaker 00

  Steal your way past the ruins of the altar and the morgue. Steal your way past the fables of creation in the fall. Steal your way past the palaces that rise above the rock. Year by year, month by month, day by day, thought by thought.

• 1:09:47Speaker 00

  Steal your heart past the truth you believed in yesterday. Such is fundamental goodness and the wisdom of the way. Steal your heart, precious heart, past the women who you bought. Year by year, month by month, day by day, thought by thought.

• 1:10:19Speaker 00

  Steer your way past the pain That is far more real than you That smashes the cosmic model That blinded every view And please don't make me go there Though there be a God or not Year by year Month by month Day by day

• 1:10:44Speaker 00

  Thought by thought

• 1:10:50Speaker 00

  They whisper still the ancient stones The blooded mountains weep

• 1:10:58Speaker 00

  As he died to make them holy Let us die to make things cheap

• 1:11:07Speaker 00

  And say the mea culpa Which you probably forgot Year by year Month by month Day by day

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  Thought by thought

• 1:11:27Speaker 00

  Steer your way on my heart Though I have no right to ask To the one who was never Never equal to the task Who knows he's been convicted? Who knows he will be shot? Year by year Month by month Day by day

• 1:11:54Speaker 00

  Thought by thought

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  They whisper still the ancient stones The blooded mountains weep

• 1:12:07Speaker 00

  As he died to make men holy Let us die to make things cheap

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  And say the mea culpa Which you gradually forgot Year by year Month by month Day by day

• 1:12:30Speaker 00

  Thought by thought

• 1:12:35Speaker 00

  Month by month, day by day, thought by thought.

• 1:12:45Speaker 00

  Month by month, day by day, thought by thought.

• 1:13:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:28Speaker 05

  That was fun. That sounded good.

• 1:13:29Speaker 00

  I thought it sounded good.

• 1:13:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  All right, sweet.

• 1:13:32Speaker 05

  Beautiful.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  Yay!

• 1:13:33Speaker 05

  What? That's it? I just got here.

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  Let's do more.

• 1:13:37Speaker 05

  Wait a minute.

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  I could just do this like all day.

• 1:15:21Speaker 05

  All day, all day, all day. We make a whole mixtape, a whole mixtape.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  We should.

• 1:15:29Speaker 05

  You still rolling, Andy? Let's go.

• 1:15:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, man.

• 1:15:31Speaker 05

  Man.

• 1:15:32Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:15:33Speaker 05

  Thank you, Nora. Thank you for having me.

• 1:15:35Speaker 00

  You're the best.

• 1:15:35Speaker 05

  You are the bomb. You are the bomb. Love you, man. I am thrilled. Thank you.

• 1:15:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, love you so much.

• 1:15:42Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  Thanks for listening. That was so fun. Are we two crafty ladies? That was so nice. So fun.

• 1:16:06Speaker 00

  No, that was so fun to play with him. I love impromptu drum jams. Some of his songs are hard, too.

• 1:16:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's very, very skilled, but also has a sensitive touch.

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  Oh, so sensitive and such a specific beat. You know, everybody has the back, plays the back beat different.

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  It's a signature, yeah.

• 1:16:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's so good.

• 1:16:24Speaker 03

  He makes it look so easy, too.

• 1:16:26Speaker 00

  He's just a cool dude.

• 1:16:38Speaker 00

  If you want to know what we played in this episode, the first song we did was called "To Live", which is one of mine from my album, Pick Me Up Off The Floor in 2020, which Nate played on the track on the recording. The second song we did, I loved this one, "Morning in Allison", from Nate's album Kinfolk, Postcards From Everywhere, which came out in 2017. And the singer on the album is Amawut. The third song we did was called "Fly", from Mike, from Kinfolk II, See The Birds. On the album is sung by the lovely Brittany Howard. Fourth song we did, wow, we did a lot of songs. He did a snippet from Whisk, which is a track on Astrum's solo album, titled Pocket Change 2: Mad Currency. We did another song called "Steer Your Way",

• 1:17:23Speaker 00

  which was a Leonard Cohen song from his album You Want It Darker, and also from the Tribute album that I sang on and Nate played on. The sixth song we did was just some jamming. Special thanks to Nate Smith for joining us today. We'll be back next week with John Legend. Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. Today's show was recorded by Andy Tob and assisted by Samuel Wall at Brooklyn Recording. Mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda, additional recording by Matt Marinelli. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Frye. Photography by Sherwin Lanaz. Coordinating producer Rachel Ward.

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Queen Anaki. And produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Odie.

• 1:18:17Speaker 00

  Produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Hey, that's us.

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  Odie Odie.

• 1:18:23Speaker 00

  Odie-o. Toodle-oo. Thanks for listening.

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  Bye.

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  Listen next time. Like and subscribe, please.

• 1:18:34Speaker 00

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