Josh Groban

Tony and GRAMMY nominee Josh Groban chats with Norah about being a "late bloomer" in finding his voice, life on and off the stage, and their shared love of musical theater.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:18Speaker 02

  This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm playing along with Josh Groban.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm Norah Jones and welcome to the show. Here we are, me and my Oda, Sarah Oda.

• 2:48Speaker 04

  Welcome to the show.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Hey, co-pilot.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  We have an amazing episode today with Grammy nominated singer-songwriter, actor, musical theater performer, Josh Groban. He spans across generations and genres with his very warm, rich, baritone voice. It's unforgettable. And he moves seamlessly from classical music to Broadway. His voice is just so good, it can do anything.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  He's incredible. Actually, hearing his voice in the room was very special.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  Powerful.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Very powerful. Yeah, we had a lot of fun. He's also just a very fun person and sweetheart and just all-around great guy.

• 3:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Josh will release his new album Cinematic in early May, and it's a collection of some of the most iconic songs featured in film. The album spans favorites like Can You Feel the Love Tonight from The Lion King and Skyfall, the James Bond theme, to timeless classics, including Moon River from Breakfast at Tiffany's, As Time Goes By from Casablanca, and When You Wish Upon a Star from Pinocchio, along with a stirring newer rendition of Stand By Me.

• 3:55Speaker 04

  In this episode, you're going to hear about how he sort of found his voice and how he kind of had to learn how to become a frontman, some of the differences between the acting world versus the singing world, and also your shared love of musical theater, which...

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Specifically Andrew Lloyd Webber.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  Specifically. And culminating into these powerful duets, including a Broadway classic.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I got to live my dream. So please enjoy the episode with Josh Groban.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Well, thanks for coming today.

• 4:29Speaker 05

  I am so happy to finally be in this wonderful room with you.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm so happy it worked out. And last time I saw you, we were doing that beautiful benefit.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  Which, thank you for joining us.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, is this your organization?

• 4:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, so this was our second year at Jazz Lincoln Center. You know, I know we're both products of arts education. You posted that picture on Instagram of you and band.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, marching band.

• 4:53Speaker 05

  Which was like, so cool that you did that. And yeah, so I am so grateful for the arts teachers that I had, the music teachers that opened up my world when I was younger. And so, you know, my fans like from early on showed a real interest in giving back in more ways than just buying the music and stuff. They would always ask me on birthdays and stuff, where can we give?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  That's really sweet, really?

• 5:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, and at some point, they actually, like, they gave me a huge donation at a concert. I was playing the Greek in LA, and they stopped the show, and they gave me like this jumbo check. And they'd auctioned off like all kinds of stuff. And they gave me a check for like $25,000. And they said, "One day, if you start a foundation, we want this to be your first donation."

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Wait, who's "they"?

• 5:36Speaker 05

  It was like a group of...

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Can we go back a second?

• 5:40Speaker 05

  It was about 10 fans.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Like a fan club kind of thing?

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Okay, gotcha.

• 5:44Speaker 05

  And they kind of galvanized other fans.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:47Speaker 05

  And they raised money.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Just to do something good.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  Just to do something good. And they said, "We really want to..." And you know, as you know, when fans kind of stop the show in the front row, like, and I go, "Okay, what's this gonna be now?"

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:59Speaker 05

  But it was...

• 6:00Speaker 02

  That never happens to me.

• 6:01Speaker 05

  It was lovely.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  Well, it rarely happens to me too. It's a fairly, you know, usually they're pretty calm. But they wanted to stop, and they said, "No, no, no, give us the mic." I'm going, "Okay." And it started as just the Josh Groban Foundation, because I didn't know what I wanted to make my cause yet. We just wanted an umbrella that we could take in money and give it to whoever. That wound up just being... A little too broad because you can give a little bit to a lot of organizations, but those organizations generally have a lot of money coming their way anyway.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:35Speaker 05

  And then I got, have you ever done Arts on the Hill Day in DC?

• 6:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:38Speaker 05

  You'd be amazing doing this, where it's basically, you know, Congress gives, has one day a year where they allow a lot of conversations to take place about funding the arts in the country. And so the year that I did it, it was me, Wynton Marsalis, and Linda Ronstadt.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, amazing.

• 6:57Speaker 05

  Sandwiched between these geniuses.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Was it a long time ago she was singing?

• 7:01Speaker 05

  It was a long time ago. She didn't sing that day. She just spoke about her experiences. But it was a chance, as I was talking about it, and as I was listening to them talk about it, I realized that it was something that was so deep in me that this was a cause that I felt very, very passionate about. I also hadn't died yet, so I didn't want to call it the Josh Groban Foundation.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's something like posthumous about that.

• 7:25Speaker 05

  Well, a couple of things, yeah, exactly, totally, yeah. Hadn't died, and also, I just, I didn't want like the stock market ebb and flow of how I was doing in the industry to affect like the popularity of whether or not the work of the foundation was doing spectacularly. And so I didn't necessarily want to like make it about me, so we changed the name.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Is that a thing that happens? I don't really know.

• 7:52Speaker 05

  Well, you know, when you name a foundation after a person.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't want the growth or the losses.

• 7:57Speaker 05

  I just didn't want me as Josh Groban to like have, like, to be the whole part of it, you know? What if I decide to just like live on a ranch and take care of old dogs, you know?

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can also imagine it's hard to get money for a foundation without a clear what you're doing.

• 8:16Speaker 05

  You have to have a clear vision.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  You have to be saying what you're doing.

• 8:18Speaker 05

  You have to tell the story, and especially with something like Arts and Arts Ed, where there's already kind of a stigma around it of like, well, why? Why my hard-earned money for, what are they doing? Drum circles? Like, what's going on?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  And so a lot of our mission is to, is to really kind of convince the non-believers why the science behind it is so important, that this is not a talent search, this is not just a feel-good. It's great that it's a feel-good, but that it really is about, you know, what it's doing to a young student's brain, how it's allowing them to express themselves. And in communities where we have

• 8:53Speaker 05

  You know what we call like these arts deserts where there really is not a lot of arts ed, you know, giving them the opportunity to express themselves is the first time in their whole lives where they've had the chance to do that, even at home. And so we've had the most fun, it's fun to preach to the choir, but the most fun is when you get like the government person or the businessy person and they walk out of there like with tears in their eyes and you're just like, you know, actually, now that I think about it, it was that saxophone teacher when I was a young youth in Connecticut and you know, and so it does, it does eventually melt the coldest of hearts. And, and yeah, so we've, it's now the Find Your Light Foundation. It's not, it's not the JG Foundation, it's Find Your Light. And, and you were awesome. And, and I know it means a lot to you too. So, thank you so much.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does mean a lot to me. And I, it was really beautiful night and you worked it. You worked it so hard.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  I put myself to work.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  You were really, you were the emcee and you were like auctioning stuff off. You were working hard. And every time I saw you backstage, you were so nice and you were trying to talk to me. And I was like, I don't want to take your energy right now because I knew you were so deep in it.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  You were saying to me, you're like, wow, they're really putting you to work. I said, yeah, this is my one night a year where.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, we'll talk later.

• 10:06Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, within a foundation, within, within foundation work, like there are so many, it takes a village. There's so many, there's so many people that are doing the nuts and bolts, sleeves rolled up work every day to reach out to the programs and to do the funding and the grant reviewing and things like that. You know, that part is, you know, harder for me. So, the one thing I can do is, you know, go out there and be Mr. Host Guy, you know, one, one night a year. It's my time to shine.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Well, it's great.

• 10:34Speaker 05

  But I did my best. I was way less smooth with it when we did it the first time at City Winery here in New York. And all my friends that were there were just like, dude, breathe, just breathe. Are you nervous?

• 10:43Speaker 02

  They're giving you advice.

• 10:44Speaker 05

  I'm good. It's going great, right? It's like, yeah, man, look, everybody's here for you. It's all, it's all okay.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  That's so funny. Well, I was wondering if you wanted to put our arts education to the test and try a song.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  We should put our arts education to the, yes, we should.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  That neither of us have done before.

• 10:57Speaker 05

  Oh, are we gonna start with one we haven't done before?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 11:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, let's do that.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Do you want to try it?

• 11:02Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 11:04Speaker 05

  We both love the Everly Brothers.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  And I think it's actually a good theme of a song for the, kind of the message too of what we were, what we're talking about.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, you're definitely right about that.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  Helping young students achieve their dream, dream, dreams.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Have you really never sung this song?

• 11:17Speaker 05

  I've never sung it. Not, I haven't even like. Whispered it to myself. I thought to myself, well, if we do this, we'll just kind of like figure it out in the room.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 05

  So this is my first time even trying it.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Let's see what happens.

• 11:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  All right.

• 11:30Speaker 05

  All right.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Let's give it a whirl.

• 11:46Speaker 06

  Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream. Dream, dream, dream when I want you. In my arms when I want you. And all your charms whenever I want you. All I have to do is dream. Dream, dream, dream when I feel blue. In the night and I need you

• 12:28Speaker 06

  to hold me tight whenever I want you. All I have to do is dream. I can make you mine. Taste your lips of wine. Anytime, night or day. Only trouble is, gee whiz, I'm dreaming my life away. I need you so. Then I could die, I love you so.

• 13:13Speaker 06

  And that is why, whenever I want you, all I have to do is dream. Dream, dream, dream, dream.

• 13:33Speaker 06

  I can make you mine, taste your lips of wine, anytime, night or day. Only trouble is, gee whiz, I'm dreaming my life away. I need you so that I could die, I love you so. And that is why, whenever I want you, all I have to do is dream.

• 14:16Speaker 06

  Dream, dream, dream, dream. Dream, dream, dream, dream. Dream, dream, dream, dream.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Aww, that's so cute.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  I love that song, yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  That was pretty.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  That was pretty.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Oh, goodie.

• 14:46Speaker 05

  Good.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Thanks, that was really fun.

• 14:47Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  I'm glad you suggested that song.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  I love, I just, first of all, I love the Everly Brothers.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 05

  I saw Simon and Garfunkel in concert once, they did their old friends tour and they brought out the Everly Brothers.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Oh, how fun.

• 14:59Speaker 05

  Because they were so influenced by them.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  I'm sure.

• 15:02Speaker 05

  And they brought them out and it was just like, it was so great to see them on stage and, um, yeah, those harmonies and those melodies just never get old.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  They're just really, really classic.

• 15:13Speaker 05

  And they're sweet.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  They're sweet.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  You know, it represents just like a, there was no cynicism, you know, it was just, it's just, um, there's something about them that just makes me smile.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  I know, it's beautiful. Do you gravitate, you seem like someone, from doing that show with you and then just the few minutes we were on stage working out that other song, you seem like you're really into harmonies and you're good at them.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  I love harmonizing.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Is that your thing?

• 15:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, when I'm in the studio, um, I'm, yeah, I kind of have to stop myself sometimes from like over harmonizing or finding a harmony for everything.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  I know what you mean.

• 15:48Speaker 05

  Because I... It's always so tempting to just find that line that's just like, and then I'll always say like, oh, there's a, there's definitely a harmony here. I could definitely go in and sometimes it's not necessary.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  It becomes like a prog rock song.

• 15:58Speaker 05

  Totally, absolutely.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Like a guitar solo that's harmonized it 20 times.

• 16:02Speaker 05

  100%. Why wouldn't you? If you can harmonize on something, do it. But sometimes more is not more. And, but yeah, no, I do. I love a good harmony.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm with you.

• 16:11Speaker 05

  I've noticed you do a lot of harmonies on this podcast. You're so amazing at adapting when you have an artist come in here.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks.

• 16:19Speaker 05

  And finding that, and so gracious. You always take, like, when we were out there, it's like, yeah, no, I'll take the, I'll take the other part. I always find, and I like doing that with artists as well. I find there's something like, I think being like the soloist for so long, I really, I love, I miss my choir days. Like, I miss, I miss the blend, you know? And I really like, I really like kind of finding that other, the other part.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's fun to be in a, in a group vocally that, and the energy of the voices also, and it's like this natural bodily, it's a bodily function? Or I don't know what you could call it.

• 16:56Speaker 05

  It is. You become like one living, breathing being. And, you know, as somebody who kind of got thrown into a very extroverted business, but is very much an introvert myself, there was something very comforting about being in the blend. And I came from a blendy world. Like, that teacher that I was talking about, that was like a jazz vocal ensemble. I was in like a contemporary jazz vocal ensemble in junior high.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:16Speaker 05

  And I, and then all of a sudden, I was like plucked into solo land, and I was just like, ah, this light is so bright.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  This light is so bright.

• 17:21Speaker 05

  So bright. Why? Why? And so whenever I get a chance to, to work with, you know, a group of singers, it's just, it's just the best.

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• 20:04Speaker 02

  So the jazz vocal choir in junior high, that couldn't have been your first singing foray, was it?

• 20:11Speaker 05

  It was in front of any kind of audience. I mean, there was the bedroom singing.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Was that plentiful? Like, did you do a lot of that growing up?

• 20:18Speaker 05

  I did, you know, sing along to just all kinds of albums and cast recordings and singers that I grew up loving. And, you know, just kind of, I loved singing along with people like Mel Tormé and just kind of, you know, other kind of more baritone-y kind of voices I just, I loved singing along with. But, you know, I was like, I was a late bloomer as far as... Finding my voice and and my voice didn't even change until I was like middle of eighth grade. So I was I was really, you know, kind of struggling to find any kind of musical vocal identity. And it was that music teacher who was like, hey, there's a quality here. I think there's something there. I'm gonna pull you out to the front because nobody else is gonna,

• 21:01Speaker 05

  you know, have you do that. And I can he could tell that I wasn't gonna do that for myself. I was not a

• 21:07Speaker 02

  You weren't like a raise your hand type?

• 21:09Speaker 05

  Oh, I'll get this one, guys. No, I was not a raise my hand type. I was a very shy kid, just in general, even academically. And there was all kinds of stuff going on at that time in my life. Like, I didn't know that I had ADD. Like, there was all this stuff where I was just I was a back of the class kid because I felt just so much more comfortable just being in my own little world. So that aha moment of a teacher saying, I'm gonna give you a solo and it's an assignment. You have to do it.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  It's a test for yourself.

• 21:37Speaker 05

  It was. And it could have been, I would not, you know, it could have been absolutely dreadful, embarrassing. It could have been one of those moments where, you know, worst nightmare scenario where I let the nerves get to me and the class was mean. And I would have gone into that, I would be on the farm with the old dogs now, you know, but it was the opposite of that. Like any great teacher, he saw potential and he knew that I wouldn't fall. So strange side note, Jason Schwartzman, the actor, played drums behind me.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Really?

• 22:10Speaker 05

  We went to the same high school.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Oh, have fun.

• 22:12Speaker 05

  And we did George Gershwin's Wonderful and with scat solo.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  What?

• 22:17Speaker 05

  Well, it's so the first and last time I ever attempted

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Did you plan it out? Like,

• 22:23Speaker 05

  No, I just he just gave me

• 22:24Speaker 02

  You definitely improvised.

• 22:25Speaker 05

  Take eight bars there. Yeah, I did. I improvised.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Full improvised.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  I fully improvised it because my dad is a big jazz person. He played jazz trumpet all through college and high school.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 22:34Speaker 05

  And came from a very conservative family. And they were like, that's no way to make a living. You got to go into business. And so he did. But he was always like scat singing and whistling throughout the house. And so I kind of said, yeah, I think I've done this before. So yeah, so it's wonderful jazz vocal ensemble. The kids were great. I got like a standing O.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  And the bullies came over to me the next day and were just like, yeah, bro, that was great.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 22:54Speaker 05

  Keep doing your thing, man.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Changed everything.

• 22:56Speaker 05

  Got the voice of an angel, bro.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 22:57Speaker 05

  You know, yeah, I'm like, wow, thanks, Biff.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 23:00Speaker 05

  And if I was like, if I can get that guy.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 05

  All right, maybe I'm on to something.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  And this is like eighth grade?

• 23:05Speaker 05

  This was, yeah, seventh, eighth grade.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:08Speaker 05

  And then I was signed You know, right after 11th grade.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  What?

• 23:11Speaker 05

  So, the time period between not raising my hand and all of a sudden having to be, as you know, that light is bright and it's sudden. And like, that was, I didn't start to like, really enjoy it in my own skin until like 10 years into the business. Like, because I was always playing catch up. I felt like I was always chasing the domino.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can relate a little bit.

• 23:37Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, I mean, just, but you always-

• 23:39Speaker 02

  But I was older. I was a little older.

• 23:42Speaker 05

  Were you?

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was 22 when my first album came out.

• 23:44Speaker 05

  I was signed at that age, but I was about that age too when my first album came out. It took a minute.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  But that was back when they used to sign artists and actually help them develop their sound.

• 23:54Speaker 05

  That's right. We actually, we had the benefit-

• 23:56Speaker 02

  I don't think they do that anymore.

• 23:57Speaker 05

  Of producers that were like, let's just, like, we're gonna close the door to the world and we're gonna come up with something that is ours and we'll let everybody know when we've found it.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  They see potential in you and they help you figure it out.

• 24:09Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  And you felt like that was the case?

• 24:11Speaker 05

  That was the case. David Foster was one of those guys that-

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Oh, it was David Foster, that's right, of course.

• 24:15Speaker 05

  So, he, you know, we both benefited from having mentors at that age that had seen it all, had been through it, and, you know, had, David had a very clear idea and he's very type A as a producer. But, you know, but there were, there were growing pains there for the two of us that were really, really important. If I had just gone along entirely with what he wanted to do, I wouldn't still be here.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  But you didn't?

• 24:45Speaker 05

  No.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  You felt strong enough at that age?

• 24:47Speaker 05

  I was such a people pleaser at first. So, the fact that like, somebody wanted to hear me sing and he was really very assertive about what he wanted me to sing. And I just wanted to make everybody happy. And it started that way. And I was singing, you know, just all kinds of things trying to find it. Italian art songs and jazz songs and, and, um, and he never thought, he never thought I'd ever sing in English. So, at the time that he signed me, it was like, you know, this kind of crossover-y classical world was like so big. And so, he's thinking- We're gonna take, we're gonna take this kid and we're just gonna, it's just gonna be Italian and French and just, it's gonna be that only. Over my dead body will it be any English.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Is that what you had been doing between jazz choir in eighth grade?

• 25:31Speaker 05

  I was learning those languages in my voice lessons.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Okay, so you're doing that kind of thing?

• 25:35Speaker 05

  I was doing those things. I was singing those songs and I was really enjoying how those vowels felt vocally and I was enjoying singing them, but I never thought that that was something anybody would wanna hear. I'd never thought that that's something, I was a musical theater kid, so for me, I did not have dreams of singing Nessun Dorma or doing, I love opera, huge fan of opera, but I was also self-aware enough that my voice wasn't exactly right for that. It always kind of fell somewhere in the middle and I loved, you know, Sondheim and I loved, you know, those, those songs and so...

• 26:08Speaker 02

  And there's no shortage of them.

• 26:10Speaker 05

  There's no shortage of them, but I had to convince David.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 05

  I remember specifically, there was like a song where I went off, he's like, "Well, if you wanna sing in English, go work with this person and like, you know, bring it back." And then I played it for him, he's like, "Oh wow, English, that could be it." You know, I never would have expected that that would then turn into, you know, just kind of, it evolved throughout the course of my career, which was very lucky.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  And, and how old were you when the first album finally came out?

• 26:32Speaker 05

  Um, I think I was around 21, 22.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, and because it took...

• 26:36Speaker 02

  What year was that?

• 26:38Speaker 05

  2001.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Okay, so that, yeah.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  It was, you know, it was a crazy time for the country, it was a crazy time for the world, it was, everybody's hearts were on their sleeve and, and I think everybody was turning to music to feel connected and to heal and, you know, when you release music during a time when the world is just upside down, it's an interesting thing because, you know, you, you very much feel like it's become a little bit bigger than just the thing that would happen, you know, Andre Thoth 3000 gave that great speech about great things happen in small rooms, you know, and we were in this tiny room for two years, this little studio in Malibu that he had, where it was just me and him and an engineer, just in our own tiny little bubble, and then all of a sudden...

• 27:23Speaker 05

  You know, I'm singing and we're part of something bigger. That music is being listened to, not just for just ordinary everyday pleasure, but people are healing through music. And so it became very like of service. And that that made me feel, the introvert in me felt better about it in that regard. But yeah, it was a crazy time.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, my album came out in February 2002.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  Right.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  And I think a lot of people were, you know, they would scratch their heads like, why is this so popular?

• 27:54Speaker 05

  Really?

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a lot of analyzing of why it became popular because it wasn't, it didn't fit into any boxes.

• 28:00Speaker 05

  Well, that's true. But that could also be the answer why it became so popular.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 28:04Speaker 05

  See, to me, like as a fan, I always said to myself, well, yeah, it's so easy to understand why this is so popular because it's zigging when everything else is zagging.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Maybe, but I think people, a lot of people said that it was of comfort to people in a hard time in the country.

• 28:19Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  And they wanted to use that as the reason.

• 28:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  I always thought, yeah, I'm sure that was a big part of it.

• 28:25Speaker 05

  Well, there's, but there's, there is, you know, it's everything wrapped into it. It also.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  And you never really know.

• 28:32Speaker 05

  It also though, it was a time period also in music where there were lots of fads happening at one, at the same time. I would walk into the record label or I would walk into Billboard or wherever it was. And I would see, you know, in the lobbies, they'd have the TV screens, right? And I'd be sitting there with my Diet Coke, like waiting to go take a meeting. And I would see, you know, just endless boy bands, spiky bleach blonde hair, you know, rap rock, like everything was, there were, there were big, big fads going on at that time. And I was not, I felt like an outsider for so much of that. Like I didn't feel in the club for any of the things where there was a party happening. I was not in that party and so.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  You were also really young, but I guess a lot of those people were very young as well.

• 29:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, we were all young.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  It wasn't your age.

• 29:19Speaker 05

  No, it was, it was, it wasn't my age. It was, it was the fact that the music I was singing was like so mature.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:25Speaker 05

  And so it was being my age, but then also singing stuff that was more mature for a more mature audience that made me feel like a little bit like an alien in my own universe there. But I think to that, to that point though, at the end of the day, and it's a lesson that I've tried to keep with me for now 25 years doing this, which is that. It's always easy to look at the noise. It's always easy to look at what's, you know, the big popular thing, what's the bandwagon? And at the end of the day, whether it's a moment in history that everybody needs to connect, or whatever it is, it doesn't even have to be that. People just want to feel authenticity. They want to feel like the human voice has the opportunity to reach people just simply. And I think people lose track of that.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I think people don't give audience members enough credit.

• 30:10Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  They can't put it into words always, but they only are going to respond to something authentic.

• 30:16Speaker 05

  That's totally right. And I think that is why The Magnificent Norah Jones became so popular. Because it hit a pathos. It did. Your voice is unlike anything else. And David Foster always used to say to me, you know, don't be a perfect singer. Be a singer that in a crowded restaurant, somebody could recognize that in five seconds. And I always thought like, oh, that's really good advice.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  It is really good advice.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  Because I meet singers all the time that I'm jealous of their range. I'm jealous of their voice. And yet, I could stack it up with 10 other singers, back to back, and I would say, oh, they're all way better singers than me, and I can't tell them apart. And so I think that was valuable.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Well, it's important to have, find your own voice. And also, I heard you say something. I listened to your Blocks podcast with Neil Brennan.

• 31:08Speaker 05

  Oh, with Neil, yeah.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  I loved it. It was so great. I know, you got so deep. It was like a therapy session. But you said a few things that I really loved. And you mentioned having stage fright, or sometimes going on stage and just not being in it yet, and having to focus on certain things to just open yourself to the energy and not worry about your voice hitting the notes or not. Just focus on the lyrics. And that is really what it's all about. If you're singing to an audience, you have to be genuine about what you're saying.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  Tell the story.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Even if it's not your song.

• 31:43Speaker 05

  Right, oh, absolutely.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think that was a really beautiful thing.

• 31:47Speaker 05

  It was a great advice that I got from a voice coach that I think just helped. It was a way of unwinding my own brain. Because, you know, when... Success happens, perfectionism happens. And as a singer, you know, I'm always jealous that I can't pack it up and go do whatever. I can't put it in the case and then have a night. It's in you.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:07Speaker 05

  It's in you. You're feeling all kinds of things buzzing around. You wake up one day.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Your whole self-worth is like wrapped up in this thing.

• 32:13Speaker 05

  Is wrapped up in this thing that is part of your biology.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  That you can't put away at the end of the night.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  You can't put it away. It's attached, by the way, to your brain.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, and your throat.

• 32:21Speaker 05

  Which is never our friend, you know. Unlike, you know, eight days a year, I feel like my brain is doing exactly what it needs to do for my voice. The rest of the time, you are, you have it on a leash and you're saying, here's where we're going today. And, you know, so the fact that that teacher said to me, just focus on the words. Just tell the story.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  So great. Which teacher? Was this the same teacher?

• 32:46Speaker 05

  I still work with her. Her name's Kristen Blodgett. No, she's a, she's a voice coach and she's a music director and she works in theater a lot.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  And she's, and her daughter is my dresser on Broadway. Like, it's this wonderful family. And, uh, and so I think that that was, I had gone through many, many years of voice training, not this, not this teacher at, in junior high school, but just kind of feeling a little, a little tight. Like, here are all the little things you have to think of. And if you go just a little bit this way, it's gonna blow apart. And it's, I was already an anxious neurotic kid and I think I was made more neurotic about singing through that kind of training. And it was just nice to hear someone say, just throw it off the balcony. Just tell the story, connect.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  That's so beautiful.

• 33:29Speaker 05

  And that's your salvation. And it was so true. And then I would sing better than ever.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Well, the first type of training is athletic, right?

• 33:34Speaker 05

  Right.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  And that's maybe important for the way you sing and the kinds of songs you're singing. But the real truth of singing is it's about your soul.

• 33:43Speaker 05

  100%.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  And, um, yeah.

• 33:46Speaker 05

  And reminding myself of that when it can be so athletic is, is always my, my biggest challenge before a show.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 05

  I can get my voice to where it needs to be to be like impressive in a show. I can do the warmups. I can get myself a couple of songs in, I'm going, okay, I'm in, I'm in the zone. Um, what I'm always needing to bring myself back into myself is, uh, is, is that, is, okay. Yeah, this is the 75th show of a tour or 100, 200th show on Broadway, whatever it is. And it's reminding your soul where it needs to be, not necessarily where your voice needs to be.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  It's also, it's a lot about presence. Um, I play with this drummer, Brian Blade, and he's the most present musician I've ever played with.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  Right.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  And I don't know how he got there, but I think he's probably just always been that way. But it's been a real lesson in presence on stage. And you're reacting in the moment, no matter how rehearsed something is. It's still in the moment. And that's, that's the beauty of it for the audience.

• 34:42Speaker 05

  Totally. And they know it, they can feel it.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  They can tell if you've checked out and you started thinking about what you're gonna have after the show to eat. I've done that.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  I have done that. And by the way, I will just say though, in defense of thinking about what you're gonna eat on stage, sometimes that is a great motivator to get to the last five songs.

• 35:00Speaker 05

  But then bring yourself back in.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, because they can tell you're spacing out.

• 35:05Speaker 05

  An ADD boy over here, like, you know, sometimes I just like, I'll say, oh, oh, you, you, hang on. You had spent a whole verse on another planet.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 05

  Come back in. They, you know, the audience sometimes won't know why they know, but they know. That presence, you have to constantly find yourself, you know, being, being back with them.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:24Speaker 05

  That's why I like smaller venues.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, or being like, I like to focus sometimes on my drummer too. And so we were kind of like, oh, I'm focused on the band and playing music together. And, and it helps me just sort of stay in the moment.

• 35:37Speaker 05

  Totally. The band is important. My music director, Tarek, has been with me for my whole, like, all 25 years.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, really?

• 35:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, and he is, he's that, he's that connector for me because he is, like your drummer, so present. He is, there's joy that comes from him, every note that he's playing.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 35:53Speaker 05

  And you can tell he's so in it that sometimes, you know,

• 35:58Speaker 05

  as a lead singer, you know, everybody's behind you. You know, you're, you're always at the front, you're facing out. And, you know, I sometimes just need to like, turn around and just check in and just kind of hang back and just be, be there for a bit before I can go back out.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  That's, that's an interesting place to be. I don't completely relate because I'm always behind a piano.

• 36:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, right, which is, yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  I've tried to go out front and not play at all, but I just feel a little more connected when I have it.

• 36:25Speaker 05

  I love sitting in a piano.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you play piano.

• 36:28Speaker 05

  I do, and I-

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Did you start with another instrument?

• 36:32Speaker 05

  No, piano was, well, piano is what I started with before, before Voice.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Before you sang?

• 36:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was always just teaching myself. I, I didn't take very many lessons. I, I found them to be really- Frustrating and I can't read music. So I always just found that by ear, it was always the quickest, easiest, most intuitive way for me to learn something was that I'd listen to it. I'd sit down and I'd figure it out. And that was faster for me and more soulful for me than anything that was on the page. Now, of course, now as an adult, I wish to God that I'd learned to sight read and learn about-

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Can you tell my kids that?

• 37:06Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  Can we rewind right now?

• 37:08Speaker 05

  It's not fun.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Everybody show your kids.

• 37:09Speaker 05

  But you'll be happy you did it. Yeah, I, you know, I sit in an orchestra session. We were just in London doing some orchestra sessions and I'm just looking at the score and I'm hearing them play. And I'm having to like explain through weird gibberish, like what it is that I, that the English horn needs to do differently, when I could have just gone like, yeah, we need to toss it on here. And then that needs to be an F sharp. That's a language that I think in my second life, I would love to, to learn more.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Well, you find your strengths with your limitations, I think.

• 37:39Speaker 05

  You do.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  That's the best part about it.

• 37:40Speaker 05

  But the piano for me was my, you know, exorcism every day after, after school, after a hard day at school.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Just for your own joy.

• 37:47Speaker 05

  I'd sit and play and my parents, to their credit, left me alone to do it. They weren't like hovering.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  That's beautiful.

• 37:52Speaker 05

  They didn't make it, um-

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Annoying?

• 37:54Speaker 05

  Annoying.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  As my kids tell me all the time, you're being annoying.

• 37:57Speaker 05

  They weren't helicopter parents about the piano. They would just, they knew, they could hear it, of course, but they knew that I was just in the zone and they'd let me get that out. And so the singing was something that happened totally different. And then the idea of singing and playing the piano was something that David Foster never thought would happen. I never thought would happen. I thought they were just two totally separate worlds. And then as I started writing more and playing more, I thought, oh, this is, this is actually kind of an extension of me. And that's very comforting. There's something I like about being, I guess it like triggered the choir thing in me where I'm collaborating now with this voice. And, and, and it's not all about me out there. I can sit here and I can be part of the sound.

• 38:37Speaker 02

  I think playing and accompanying yourself as well while you're singing is just another way to be present and focus in on the important parts of the song.

• 38:46Speaker 05

  Yep, 100%.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  I feel like I always sing better when I'm playing.

• 38:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Because I'm not overthinking, I'm not overthinking at all. And I'm also- I'm just sort of, you know, getting through the emotion of what I'm saying.

• 39:02Speaker 05

  I'm also just like not naturally a like solo frontman, comfortable in my own body like,

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 05

  you know, like work the stage.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 05

  I've had, that has been the part.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Well, that's the whole thing.

• 39:14Speaker 05

  I didn't start that way. Now I can work it, but like.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Well, you definitely can work a gala, can I just say?

• 39:18Speaker 05

  I got.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  I'm like, introvert who?

• 39:20Speaker 05

  That, exactly, totally. That was the part that I had to like be like put on a new hat. I had, that took so many years of figuring out like, what are my movements? Like, how do I work a stage that feels natural and doesn't feel stupid? What does that being on that horse feel like for me? Two tours had to go by before I fully understood what that felt like. And so that, that was never a natural thing for me and that's.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  That's hard to be pushed out there if you're not feeling in your own body.

• 39:46Speaker 05

  It's, it's, yeah, it's always just, it's so much easier to have an instrument.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 05

  It is just so much easier.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  It's easier and what do you do when there's an instrumental section and you're just standing there? What are you doing?

• 39:58Speaker 05

  You know what? I asked, I used to ask that question and then I saw Leonard Cohen perform and it suddenly like clicked with me. He, every time there was, there was an instrumental break, he took off his fedora and he would just stand to the side and put it to his heart.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  And put it to his heart?

• 40:14Speaker 05

  And watch, and watch the band.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 40:17Speaker 05

  And then he'd put the hat back on and he'd go back to the microphone. And I was just going, oh, my God, the reverence and the, the energy shift.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 05

  And I was like, that's all, that's all, that's just, that's beauti-, I thought it was so beautiful. Just so, yeah, it was, that was really lovely to see.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  That's great.

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• 43:10Speaker 02

  Well, would you mind playing piano for me? Oh, I could play some piano, sure. Yeah, would you play some piano? Absolutely.

• 43:17Speaker 05

  Do you want to just follow me?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  I was just gonna sing harmonies on like, maybe, maybe after you do the first chorus, I'll come in on some harmonies.

• 43:24Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Does that sound good?

• 43:25Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  What a pretty song. This is the Neil Diamond song.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  This is Neil Diamond. And so, I start, I didn't grow up, admittedly, a Neil Diamond fan. I always knew he was brilliant, and I always knew that he was, you know, huge and had so many hits, but he wasn't one of those artists that I was like, wearing out the records as a kid. And I was working on an album with Rick Rubin, and he had me write with an amazing writer named Dan Wilson. And I was going to, flying to Minneapolis like, every month to work with Dan Wilson. And as, lyrics are always the hardest part for me, and especially with a voice like mine. Rick's thing with me was like, "Your voice should, don't try to be casual." Sometimes I agreed with it more than other times, but

• 44:10Speaker 05

  Rick really wanted like, my voice to, to feel like poetic. And so, when I was working with Dan Wilson, we would always kind of say to ourselves, like, "Well, who's an artist that isn't afraid to kind of be unabashedly poetic and romantic in their pop music?" And we kind of kept going back to Neil.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 05

  And we kind of said, "Yeah, he's, he's, he has always put his lyrics on that pedestal of just like, 'I'm gonna, I'm gonna take it there,' you know?" And then, Music Cares was honoring him, and I got asked to sing this song for him there. And I was just like, "Oh, I just, this is just such a beautiful way of saying all the things that it says." All right.

• 44:59Speaker 05

  She was morning and I was nighttime. I one day woke up to find her lying beside my bed. I softly said, "Come take me."

• 45:18Speaker 05

  For I've been lonely and need of someone, as though I'd done someone wrong somewhere, but I don't know where. I don't know where, come lately.

• 45:38Speaker 06

  You are the sun, I am the moon. You are the words, I am the tune, play me.

• 45:50Speaker 06

  Songs she sang to me, songs she sang to me. Words that rang to me, rhymes that sprang from me. Warm the night, and what was right became me.

• 46:11Speaker 06

  You are the sun, I am the moon. You are the words, I am the tune, play me.

• 46:42Speaker 06

  And so it was that I came to travel. Upon a road that was so narrow. Another place, another grace would save me.

• 47:04Speaker 06

  You are the sun, I am the moon. You are the words, I am the tune, play me. You are the sun, I am the moon. You are the words, I am the tune, play me.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  That's so pretty.

• 47:43Speaker 05

  Lovely.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Yay.

• 47:45Speaker 05

  That was beautiful.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  That's fun.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  Great harmonies.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  Could you hear me?

• 47:49Speaker 05

  You're a harmonized fool over there. Wow. Hey.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Um, could you hear me okay?

• 47:52Speaker 05

  I could hear you great.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  I think it felt really good.

• 47:54Speaker 05

  I loved it. I loved it.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  That was beautiful.

• 47:56Speaker 05

  Spontaneous and beautiful. Thank you for that, Mark.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Also, you got some, you got a few little New Orleans licks in there. That's great. Yeah, I loved it.

• 48:03Speaker 05

  Um, I, I, I grew up, you know, because I taught myself piano. It was interesting that I was like taking these classical voice lessons, but I was, I was like raised on the Church of Hornsby.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 48:12Speaker 05

  And I was writing in France once with this writer and he's like, "Oh, you have a very California style of playing piano." I was like, "Oh, that's interesting."

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, Bruce Hornsby has come up so many times in this podcast already.

• 48:25Speaker 05

  Has he?

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Definitely should, should try to get him to come on and show me.

• 48:28Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. I would.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Show me the Hornsby ways.

• 48:31Speaker 05

  You and Bruce together.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Have you hung out with him?

• 48:33Speaker 05

  No, I've never met him. I've never met him, but.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Neither have I.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  I think that he is one of just, I mean, he is, I, I think he's just brilliant, but I, I think he's, I think he's also a little unsung as far as his genius. He's influenced so many musicians.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  He really has.

• 48:48Speaker 05

  Whether they know it or not.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Yes, that's true.

• 48:51Speaker 05

  And, uh, and so, uh, and I just, I just love his exploration and, and him and the Noisemakers, that band is like, talk about the connection with a band.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:59Speaker 05

  Really, really great.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Do you want to change places again?

• 49:03Speaker 05

  Should we switch back out at my little orange stool?

• 49:04Speaker 10

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• 49:35Speaker 02

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic, but in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 50:30Speaker 07

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• 50:49Speaker 08

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• 51:34Speaker 08

  Offer ends November 4. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Well, I was telling you about my piano bench. When I first started doing gigs in the late 90s.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  I had to ask for a phone book everywhere I went to sit on because I was too low.

• 51:50Speaker 05

  And did the gigs have a phone book readily?

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:53Speaker 05

  They were just like, oh yeah, hey Hank, go into the production room and get us that phone book?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  No, we're talking about restaurants.

• 51:58Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  I'm in restaurants, you know, playing.

• 52:01Speaker 05

  Right, sure.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  For people who are mostly not listening, but yeah, they always had a phone book. But there's gotta be a picture somewhere of me sitting on a phone book.

• 52:09Speaker 05

  You have to find it. You should make that an album cover at some point.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Just me on the phone book.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  For something, you on the phone book, yeah. Norah Jones sings the phone book.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:16Speaker 05

  Yeah. That's adorable. And, you know, boy, those are the days, right? When you can just ask for a phone book and it was right there.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 05

  Yeah. And while you're at it, will you check that payphone for a quarter? Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Or they'd try to offer me like a digital phone book. I'm like, no, no, no, no.

• 52:31Speaker 05

  What's a digital phone book?

• 52:32Speaker 02

  I don't know. They were like, well, I can Google whatever number you need. I was like, no.

• 52:36Speaker 05

  Oh, they didn't know you needed it for your bench?

• 52:37Speaker 02

  I needed it for my butt.

• 52:38Speaker 05

  Right. Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Did you have early gigs before your first album came out where you were performing live?

• 52:45Speaker 05

  See, that's the thing that I always feel, I feel so guilty about this because I never, I didn't get to like cut my teeth doing the restaurant gigs, you know?

• 52:54Speaker 02

  You don't have to feel guilty about that.

• 52:55Speaker 05

  I do, I feel guilty because I never, I never. Yeah, but that's why I feel like every artist needs to feel that. But it was, it was kind of a, the reason for that partially was just the genre that I was in. Now, I played lots of small things.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  You did, okay.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  David would, I mean, I spent a good two years just singing at every event, every charity, every backyard, every, it was just like private stuff.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  But were they mostly people who were listening?

• 53:21Speaker 05

  Oh, no, not always.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Okay, so some talky.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  So I guess I had kind of my restaurant experience.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Paid practice there.

• 53:27Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Who is this kid? You know, I was always singing during the dessert course of whatever event was going on. And, you know, that was, the challenge was always if, how do I, how do I get them to put their spoons down? Like that was, if I can, if I can get the pin drop in here, then that's a good night. But you can't win them all.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 53:43Speaker 05

  You know, my biggest nightmare is if I'm singing somewhere and they don't. Want me there, or they don't care, you know, I have to be dragged.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  That's my biggest nightmare in life.

• 53:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Just in general.

• 53:53Speaker 05

  I just like, I'm good. Look, I don't need to be here. Like, we're good. If you would much rather just talk amongst yourselves, I got a really cozy dressing room. I'm OK. You just got to make it then around you and your band.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:05Speaker 05

  And do your thing, as if we were in a room like this.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:08Speaker 05

  And I found that more times than not, I will walk offstage and go, well, that sucked. And, you know, somebody will say to me, like, God, that was just awesome. Oh, the audience was so.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Oh, the perception.

• 54:23Speaker 05

  The perception too is oftentimes really wacky.

• 54:26Speaker 02

  It's really weird.

• 54:27Speaker 05

  And I've learned enough that I gaslight myself up there to the point where if I don't get that feedback, I will have left with an entirely different view how it went than they did.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:38Speaker 05

  And I have to accept when I'm wrong about those things, too. And then there are other times where I'm like, crushed it. And then I'll see a review, I was like, what?

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Oh, don't read reviews.

• 54:46Speaker 05

  Well, you know, even worse, I'll read the comments.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Don't read comments.

• 54:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, you know.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Sometimes I'll see somebody in the front row, like, checking their phone or yawning, and I'll just... I used to get so focused on it and annoyed. And then now I just tell myself, oh, that person's on call, they're a doctor. Oh, that person is...

• 55:10Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Has a babysitter at home who's asking, you know, where the medicine is for the kid. And I just like, then I try to let it go.

• 55:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  And I just tell myself a story like that.

• 55:19Speaker 05

  By the way, you might very well be right.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  I might be right.

• 55:21Speaker 05

  Because who, who among us would be on their phone while you're singing?

• 55:25Speaker 02

  I feel like people are often.

• 55:28Speaker 05

  It has to be, no, it has to be an emergency.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:30Speaker 05

  And, and.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Or like a husband that's been drugged by his wife and doesn't want to be there.

• 55:35Speaker 05

  Or is in the doghouse.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 55:36Speaker 05

  And, yeah, no, there's always, I always have to remember, too, like, everybody else has things going on.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. I always have to remind myself that, like, there's probably a good reason for that.

• 55:47Speaker 05

  This business turns all of us, even the sensitive introverts into narcissists at some point. We're just, just.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 55:53Speaker 05

  It's, there's a, there's a whole lot of narratives going on out there.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  There's a lot.

• 55:57Speaker 05

  It's not, they're not all focused on whether or not you're singing the note right or not. Believe it or not.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  They're not.

• 56:02Speaker 05

  It ain't that important.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  No. But the feeling is important.

• 56:05Speaker 05

  It is.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  And it's, it's important, you know, I just want to tell you that I think you're so Cool.

• 56:13Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 05

  That means so much to me. Well, vice versa.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  And I just, I feel like, you know, it's from, from talking to you and from listening to the Blacks Podcast especially, I get the feeling that you didn't always feel that way.

• 56:27Speaker 05

  Still don't feel that way.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:28Speaker 05

  And I just want you to know. I didn't feel it until Norah Jones told me that.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  You really are.

• 56:32Speaker 05

  And now I'm gonna be intolerable. I just want you to know you've started a real monster.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  You do. You have, you have like this magical gift. Your voice is, is, it's, it's just so beautiful.

• 56:42Speaker 05

  Thank you so much.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  And like, I feel the soulfulness in it. You know, I feel the, the warmth and all the things. But I think when you become successful at a young age, you get really, I know I had a lot of insecurities coming out as well, because I didn't know which room I fit into.

• 57:01Speaker 05

  Right.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  And I felt really insecure about being called a jazz artist, when I felt like I was kinda singing just songwriter songs at that time, even though I come from that genre.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  Right.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  And I just felt like I was just like hitting, you know, like punting balls from all angles. That sounds weird.

• 57:20Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. I didn't even go there with that. I was like, I totally understand. I totally understand what you're saying.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  I'm projecting myself now onto you a little bit, but like.

• 57:27Speaker 05

  Which is fascinating for me, having been a fan for so many years and thinking you're the **** coolest for the entirety of my career, to also know that a fellow artist that I've looked up to has felt that way. You were the person that, for those of us that felt like we were writing our own playbook vocally or musically, and felt like we didn't quite fit into one of the bins, you've, you've truly been such a huge inspiration for sticking to your own path and letting, letting the audience come to your soul, rather than trying to, you know, you've never pandered, you've never been anything other than Norah. And that is a reminder for any artist, veteran or, or young. And so.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  I'm gonna cry.

• 58:12Speaker 05

  Those words from you, those words from you really like, they really mean a lot to me.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Thank you. Yeah. I just, I really respect you and I think. You're so funny. You're very funny.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  It's the demons.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Do you have any acting stuff coming up? Because you're really good at it.

• 58:26Speaker 05

  I'd love to do, oh, thank you. Well, I would love to do more theater. I get asked sometimes to do plays and musicals and stuff. And I just, there is something about the live energy of theater that is an instinct for me that I really, I like better than camera in your face and having to feel natural when you've got a crew of 10 people around you and stuff. There's, that's a little bit less of a, that's always harder for me. When you're left alone on a stage and it's just you and the energy, there's something that feels right, but.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Also, I feel like, I never realized this until I moved to New York and I went to see shows on Broadway. It's tiny.

• 59:02Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  It's so intimate.

• 59:03Speaker 05

  It truly, you see stuff on.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  It's really special.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  You watch, you watch pro shots of shows and it feels like this big event. And then you're in there and you're going, oh, we're all going to share something very special in these four walls.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  No matter what.

• 59:14Speaker 05

  No matter what, exactly. And even sometimes, especially when things go a little haywire, it feels like you had something that nobody else gets. That's what I love about theater because there are some bad nights, but then you get to do it again the next day or even sometimes that same night.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, my God, that's so much.

• 59:28Speaker 05

  It's a lot, it is a lot. But you've done some acting as well, haven't you?

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Well, I was just going to say, actually, I did a movie, a Wong Kar Wai movie, and it was one of the most special experiences of my life. But it made me realize how lucky I am because none of my time was mine.

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  You're doing like 14 hour shoots and night shoots and you're theirs for a couple of months.

• 59:52Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  It was amazing and I loved it. I loved every second of it, but.

• 59:57Speaker 05

  But it's true.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  That would be a hard lifestyle to maintain, I think, constantly for me.

• 1:00:01Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Because I'm so used to having my own schedule.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  Right, well, and sometimes it's nice to have the structure of tell me where to go, tell me what to do. But every time I've then had the privilege of being in one of those scenarios, I do the same thing. I'm always so happy that I get to go back to, I'm going to write because I feel like it today. You know, when you, it's up to you when you slide your art under the door. You know, it's, it is, we are very, very lucky.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  But at the same time, when you have time off, do you get antsy?

• 1:00:31Speaker 05

  There's a honeymoon period of time off that I feel so happy for the time off. And I'm just like, oh, my God, just sweats again today? Like, this is the best. There is something about just like the period of that one week, that first week where you do absolutely all, and then, and then, oh, I get, then I get really, and, and not only do I get antsy, but I start to get like a little depresso, too.

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 05

  And, and that's when I start to realize, okay, yeah, now it's time to do. Now it's time to go, you know, put, I guess, put your clothes back on and go, go be a person.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

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• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:02:30Speaker 09

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• 1:03:13Speaker 09

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• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but thanks for doing this. You want to do another song?

• 1:03:47Speaker 05

  Let's do another song, sure. Which one do you want to do?

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:03:51Speaker 05

  Two challenges.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  We have two challenges.

• 1:03:53Speaker 05

  We started with Fairly Mellow, you know.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  Hey, we started with a song we'd never sung.

• 1:03:57Speaker 05

  That's true. That's true. We jumped right in.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  I selfishly want to do.

• 1:04:00Speaker 05

  Let's do All I Ask.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:02Speaker 05

  Because we've talked a lot about theater.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:05Speaker 05

  And the secret theater kid in you, or maybe not so secret. Have you talked a lot about being?

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  I haven't talked about theater a lot. I wasn't. The funny thing is, I was really into musical theater for like a year maybe or two, and my mom had season tickets to the Dallas Musical Theater.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  Season, I think for two years.

• 1:04:23Speaker 05

  A lot of great shows tour through there.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:04:25Speaker 05

  It's a great artsy town.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  It was amazing, and I. I had the soundtrack to Cats. I've seen Cats three times.

• 1:04:31Speaker 05

  You've got to be kidding me. Cats is my first musical.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Mine too. I was seven.

• 1:04:34Speaker 05

  Come on. I was seven.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:04:36Speaker 05

  You've got to be kidding me.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  My mom took me to New York and we had like a distant relative playing in the pit and got us tickets to Cats.

• 1:04:43Speaker 05

  Yeah. I was seven and I, it was at the Amundsen, maybe Amundsen or Pantages in LA. And they had the tunnels and the cats were like going through the tunnels.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:52Speaker 05

  They were coming into the audience and I was just...

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  I remember that.

• 1:04:55Speaker 05

  I'm a Cats defender because I understand. Look, I get it. I get it. You can't listen to memory and not cry a little bit.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  It's the most beautiful song. It's the first song I learned on the piano.

• 1:05:06Speaker 05

  And we both. Oh, is it really?

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  I was eight. Yeah, I was seven and it was the first song I learned to like fully play.

• 1:05:11Speaker 05

  That's amazing.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  I mean, I gotta say, I gotta give it up. Andrew Lloyd Webber.

• 1:05:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  The music is special.

• 1:05:17Speaker 05

  He's like a Puccini.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  It's so beautiful.

• 1:05:19Speaker 05

  He comes up with these melodies that, that are just, you know, people sometimes, you know, will say like it's, oh, anything that's that popular sometimes will get a little bit of heat. And it's like, well, you write that melody. Like you put those chords, like that's, these are some of the greatest.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  The chords.

• 1:05:35Speaker 05

  Greatest melodies, songs that have ever been written. And also the breadth of his work from like Jesus Christ Superstar all the way to Phantom to, to everything else. School of Rock, like he's still doing it.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  He's so cool, man.

• 1:05:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Andrew Lloyd Webber, I give it up to you.

• 1:06:08Speaker 05

  No more talk of darkness. Forget these wide-eyed fears. I'm here. Nothing can harm you. My words will warm and calm you. Let me be your freedom. Let daylight dry your tears. I'm here with you, beside you. To guard you and to guide you.

• 1:06:41Speaker 11

  Say you love me with each waking moment. Turn my head with talk of summertime.

• 1:06:58Speaker 11

  Say you'll need me with you now and always. Promise me that all you say is true.

• 1:07:14Speaker 11

  That's all I ask of you.

• 1:07:19Speaker 12

  Let me be your shelter. Let me be your light, your safe. No one will find you. Your fears are far behind you.

• 1:07:34Speaker 11

  All I want is freedom. A world with no more night. And you with me, beside me. To hold me and to hide me.

• 1:07:49Speaker 12

  Then say you'll share with me one love, one lifetime. Let me lead you from your solitude.

• 1:08:06Speaker 12

  Say you'll need me with you here, beside you. Anywhere you go, let me go too. Nora, that's all I ask of you.

• 1:08:28Speaker 11

  Say you'll share with me one love, one lifetime. Say the word and I will follow you.

• 1:08:44Speaker 12

  Share each day with me, each night, each morning.

• 1:08:53Speaker 11

  Say you love me.

• 1:08:56Speaker 12

  You know I do.

• 1:09:01Speaker 11

  Love me.

• 1:09:04Speaker 12

  That's all I ask of you.

• 1:09:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:20Speaker 06

  Got it. Nice one.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  Yay.

• 1:09:23Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh. So much fun. You knocked it out of the park.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  That was my once in a lifetime.

• 1:09:27Speaker 06

  That was the best. That was so fun.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Andrew Lloyd Webber.

• 1:09:30Speaker 06

  I love singing everything with you. This one, I think, will always have a special place in my heart, truly. Thank you for opening yourself up to this.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Thank you, and thanks for joining me. And yes.

• 1:09:39Speaker 06

  It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  You're incredible. Love you.

• 1:09:42Speaker 06

  You are as well. Love you back. Thank you.

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  That was fun. Oh, that was amazing. Gosh, in this room, just like booming resonant voice. Yeah. Yeah, he's great. What a fun person. Yeah. If you want to know which songs we played in this episode, the first one was "All I Have To Do Is Dream." This song was written by Felice Ambudlo Bryant, and it was made famous by the Everly Brothers in 1958. The second song was "Play Me" by Neil Diamond from the album Moods in 1972. Josh had it on his album in 2013 as a bonus track. It was a deluxe version of the album All That Echoes. The third song we did was a classic by Andrew Lloyd Webber. The lyrics were by Charles Hart and additional lyrics by Richard Stillgo

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  from Phantom of the Opera, of course. Special thanks to Josh Groban for joining us today, and we'll be back next week with Jason Moran. Norah Jones is playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones. Recorded by Matt Marinelli. Mixed by Jamie Landry. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Fry. Photography by Sherwin Lenez. Produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Queen Anaki. Thanks for joining us, and thanks for listening. We appreciate you.

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:12:11Speaker 08

  Hey folks, it's Matt Altmaix. And Joel Larsgaard. From the How To Money podcast.

• 1:12:15Speaker 07

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