Amy Grant

GRAMMY-winning singer-songwriter Amy Grant joins Norah to talk about her first album of original songs in 13 years, and the hardships and perspective that shaped this new chapter.

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• 2:02Speaker 00

  This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Amy Grant.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Hey, I'm Norah Jones. Thanks for joining us. This is Sarah Oda.

• 2:30Speaker 07

  Welcome to our show. Today, we have Grammy-winning singer-songwriter and musician Amy Grant.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:39Speaker 07

  In the early 90s, she helped bring contemporary Christian music to mainstream. And her new album, The Me That Remains, is her first collection of original songs in 13 years. And the new music reflects on everything she's lived through in the past few years, including some pretty serious hardships and the perspective that comes with that. So this was a really special episode.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  This was great. I just, I remember listening to her music in the 90s. When she crossed over to pop music, I don't think I listened to the Christian stuff she did, but that album, Heart in Motion, there were so many hits on it. Remember, we were going back before she came? We were just like, back to our 6th grade songs.

• 3:21Speaker 07

  I know, it came right back.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  I know, it's such great, like, pop music.

• 3:25Speaker 07

  It's locked in there.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Yes, it was amazing. It was a big part of my childhood. So it was really fun to hang out. She's super amazing, soulful. There was a lot of wisdom in this episode. And yeah, her voice sounds great. And it was really fun.

• 3:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, and you'll hear one of the songs that you might just know every single word to. The way that I did.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  Yes, I definitely did.

• 3:47Speaker 07

  My teen self knew every word.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  She indulged me. We did it.

• 3:52Speaker 07

  It's so good.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  I hope you enjoy this episode with Amy Grant. I just have to tell you, I mean, it's crazy having you in front of me because I grew up listening to your music. And in 6th, 7th grade, 1991, when the big pop album came out, that was my, it was like a really, just a two-year period where I listened to real Top 40 radio constantly. And then I started listening to jazz and other stuff. So it was like right in my window. So it's pretty special for me.

• 4:26Speaker 07

  I'm so glad.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Anyway, thank you for joining me.

• 4:30Speaker 07

  Ah, my pleasure.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 07

  It's the crazy thing about music, like, when we attach to other people's music. It really is a chapter in your life.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, you feel so connected to the person. Even if they don't know you.

• 4:45Speaker 07

  I know when somebody asked me today, have you met Nora? And I said, I don't think so, but we have spent so much time. She's been in my listening space. I've listened to you, you know, throughout the years.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 4:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, and it's just like you feel like you feel connected.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 07

  And so it goes both ways.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's cool. Well, it's very exciting. So have you always played guitar?

• 5:12Speaker 07

  Yes, well, I just play kind of functionally to write.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 07

  And, you know, lyrics are really my strong suit. And just as a writer, so many times I'll say, will you, will you, uh, any chance you would just write, play a chord progression that you like on repeat and give it to me? Because my, the way I look at it is I just need a different playground to play on.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then you can tell a story.

• 5:42Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  I like that.

• 5:44Speaker 07

  So, but I am now trying. I'm really practicing playing because, you know, at this point in life, I'm so glad to still get to tour. But all kinds of things happen in life, you know, you don't know.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:59Speaker 07

  You have your plans.

• 6:02Speaker 07

  But I just would love someday when I'm in the home,

• 6:08Speaker 07

  I would love to be able to play songs that I wrote.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  You don't want to be not able to do what you do, right?

• 6:18Speaker 07

  Right.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. So did you sort of, you haven't always toured playing?

• 6:23Speaker 07

  No.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Until recently?

• 6:25Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, I've kind of played off and on, but when I couldn't afford to pay a great guitar player.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like out of function. I know what you mean.

• 6:33Speaker 07

  But I find it interesting, you know, when we put music out, you just want so bad for it to be the best version of itself. You want that song to... You want the vocal to be compelling. You want all of the instrumentation to be compelling. But there's kind of a different sort of invitation when things are far from perfect.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 07

  And that's really what I'm welcoming at this stage of my life.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  There's plenty of perfect out there. And the music industry, I think, has been a little overtaken by perfect. It's so easy to perfect everything now.

• 7:10Speaker 07

  Right.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  And it's so nice to... It's like, it really just hits you in the heart a little easier when it's really from the heart and not perfected.

• 7:19Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  I think, yeah. Well, your new album's really beautiful.

• 7:24Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  And it's really heavy. You've had a heavy time the last few years.

• 7:33Speaker 07

  Honestly, heavy's not the word that comes to my mind.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  What's the word?

• 7:37Speaker 07

  Freeing.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 07

  It's been really freeing.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Good.

• 7:42Speaker 07

  And I think even without just sort of the unique things that have happened to me, I mean, everybody goes through stuff all the time. And, but there's something about being fully launched into my 60s that, I don't know, I just, I feel like I've been able to really celebrate and let go of a younger version of myself. And, you know, whoa, 50s, you're not there yet, but your 50s, there's so much pressure to still be that woman you were in your 30s and 40s.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  It's a good note to take.

• 8:23Speaker 07

  Yeah, and that's stressful. And so it's like, oh, my gosh, do we have a tighter spank?

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 07

  Is there anything we can do?

• 8:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 07

  And I don't know, there's... It's just a different freedom that comes in your 60s. And you really are not fighting it in the same way. You still want to do the best you can with what you got. But there is sort of a beautiful anonymity that comes with time.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  I know what you mean, yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 07

  I just feel so much more, I don't know how to say it, but like, I love watching women in their 40s because I do believe 40s are really the prime.

• 9:13Speaker 07

  And I don't feel any compulsion to occupy that space. I want so much to cheer on and welcome and you got this, you got this. Deep breath, deep breath, you know, because I know that.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  I could use that right now.

• 9:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  I'm having a week, Amy.

• 9:33Speaker 07

  I'm telling you, yeah, and, and your kids are young and it's just like,

• 9:39Speaker 07

  you know, you're drinking out of a fire hose. And it's crazy to say it will not always be that way, you know?

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's good, good notes on, on what I'm in right now.

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• 12:21Speaker 00

  Do you find that music has always been, sort of been there? Have you ever taken,

• 12:29Speaker 00

  even in breaks between albums, I mean, the music is still there? Or has it, has it left you and then you've come back to it? How do you feel in terms of that?

• 12:42Speaker 07

  That's a great question. I don't know that my real giftedness lies in music. I'm, I am as happy in the audience as I am on stage. I want to be around it. I want to, you know, it's just, it's wordless connection. To me, it's beautiful.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Same.

• 13:02Speaker 07

  And I think what I never am removed from is the purposeful connection. It's the only way I know how to say it. Like, that is, that is a reason to wake up in the morning for me. Like, I kind of go, what is this day gonna bring? And who's gonna cross my path? And... But just purposeful connection and music's been a big part of that.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:31Speaker 07

  And I love participating in it. Like, I'll be away from music.

• 13:36Speaker 07

  Sometimes away from the studio for a decade. That's happened a couple of times over a decade between making music. And then I'll get back in the studio and I go, "Yeah, nothing's better than this."

• 13:47Speaker 00

  I know. It's like you forget how fun it is.

• 13:49Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 07

  And that's how I felt the first session with Mac McAnally. And he just said, "Amy, if making music is not fun, something's wrong with the world."

• 14:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 14:01Speaker 07

  Yeah, and it's like, "Oh, my gosh, why am I not doing this more?"

• 14:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know.

• 14:05Speaker 07

  But it's like, we all kind of have limited resources.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 07

  And other things demand your creative energy that matter.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:13Speaker 07

  But they might not be music. And so, I mean, to me, creative energy happens when you look in the pantry, in the fridge and go, "Okay, I want something to eat, but it's gotta be good."

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're right.

• 14:26Speaker 07

  You know, and you put an onion in a cast iron skillet and you go, "Okay, this is a good start." But it's like, everything is creative, everything.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think you're right. I like that. Well, would you like to play a song from the new record?

• 14:43Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, can we play "The Me That Remains"?

• 14:46Speaker 07

  I would love to.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  I love this song. It's so, it's just just, you wanna like, cry a little and celebrate at the same time, you know?

• 14:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  That's how it makes me feel anyway.

• 15:01Speaker 07

  Yeah, me too. Can I tell you a little bit about

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 07

  the writing of this?

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Please.

• 15:06Speaker 07

  So, I wrote this with Mac McAnally. And I

• 15:14Speaker 07

  so I wrote this two summers after a really bad bike accident. And and it was the first lyric that I just sat down and wrote top to bottom.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 15:26Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm. And in the short run after that bike wreck, I just struggled so much with my short-term memory. And so that music has never been like my

• 15:40Speaker 07

  The strongest thing I bring to a song, but.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  More lyrics, you think?

• 15:45Speaker 07

  More lyrics, but not being able to remember

• 15:50Speaker 07

  five minutes ago for a creative idea musically, I just felt like my hands were tied.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 15:57Speaker 07

  And so I would try recording and then I'd go, "Well, where in that 30 minutes was the two lines?" You know, so I can't, I don't really relate to that now. But my life, no kidding, I set timers, I set alarms.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 16:12Speaker 07

  Just all the time for anything.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 07

  If I start a bath and leave the bathroom, I got a timer going.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  I do that now.

• 16:19Speaker 07

  Yeah. No, no, it's good, yeah, because, but I've sort of always had an issue with, like, I remember one time, this was back in the 80s, and I remember starting the bath water in my hotel room. And then I thought about, "Oh, I need to go tell somebody something." And I went down to the coffee shop.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:43Speaker 07

  And the next thing I noticed, I was on the second level, the next thing I noticed, water is coming through the ceiling of the coffee shop. And I'm going, "What is, oh, my God, that's my room."

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Your room? Oh, my God.

• 16:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, not good.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  But how long did that period last of the short-term memory loss?

• 17:01Speaker 07

  Well.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Was it gradual?

• 17:04Speaker 07

  Everything was just a rebuilding, sort of, of the framework of. So even now, if I'll be talking to somebody, and I don't know if it's because I'm 65 or if it's because of, but, you know, a lot of synapses snapped in my head with the impact of that and the accident that I don't remember. But if somebody said, "Remember that trip we took to whatever, wherever?" And the more they talk about it, I'll go, "Ah, I remember that, and then we did such and such."

• 17:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then it'll all come back.

• 17:34Speaker 07

  Yes, and the beautiful thing, when I was working on this record, rather than just get impatient with myself, I thought, "Well, sometimes our limitations actually..."

• 17:45Speaker 07

  Sort of create the path forward. And so I reached out to several writers that I'd never worked with. And I was like, hey, I've got a lyric, any chance, you know, no sacred cows. Feel free to change anything. I've got the beginning of a melody idea, but any chance you want to work on this together?

• 18:04Speaker 00

  That's cool. So you kind of made a new way to do it?

• 18:08Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Well, that's great.

• 18:10Speaker 07

  It was. It's fun.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Well, it's really beautiful that you could take it as the kind of a gift and, you know, a new way forward instead of...

• 18:20Speaker 07

  Yeah. Nothing is ever all bad or all good.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 07

  You know, so there's, there's good in every awful thing.

• 18:27Speaker 00

  That's, that's a good lesson.

• 18:28Speaker 07

  Yeah. And there's a little bit, little bit of awful in every good thing.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Every good thing, yeah. You can't take one without the other, right?

• 18:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Who's playing piano on this?

• 18:37Speaker 07

  That is Mike Rojas.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  Oh, it's cool.

• 18:41Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  I'm just going to follow your foot, so keep that going.

• 18:44Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  That's really good for me.

• 18:46Speaker 07

  I always rush.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  I always drag.

• 18:48Speaker 07

  A match made in heaven. Okay, good.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  But if you foot, if you foot it, I will follow you.

• 18:53Speaker 07

  Okay. It's nice to kind of screw up and start over because it just takes a while for me to occupy the space I'm in.

• 19:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I totally, yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 07

  You know, I'm excited and I, yeah, so thank you.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  It's fun to sort of get our bearings and then keep going.

• 19:53Speaker 07

  But I recognize a light in my eyes that never did fade.

• 20:02Speaker 07

  And I'm gonna find, yeah, find and revive the me that remains.

• 20:18Speaker 07

  Life cut me wide open when my head hit the ground. It wasn't my time for dying, guess my soul just stuck around.

• 20:34Speaker 07

  And out of this wreckage, I'm beginning to claim the gifts and the healing and the me that remains. Coming out of the dark, stepping into the day. It's taken me months of days and years finding my way. When I look in the mirror, so much has changed.

• 21:13Speaker 07

  But I recognize a light in my eyes that never did fade. And I'm gonna find, yeah, find and revive the me that remains.

• 21:38Speaker 07

  I barely can remember looking for a change. A whole lot of a little too much was always in my way.

• 21:54Speaker 07

  And whatever angels happened to draw my name, I hope they see how proud I am to be the me that remains.

• 22:18Speaker 07

  Coming out of the dark,

• 22:22Speaker 07

  coming out of this grave.

• 22:26Speaker 07

  It's taken me months of days and years, still finding my way. My smile in the mirror is enough for today.

• 22:42Speaker 07

  Reflecting the light deep down inside, they never will fade.

• 22:50Speaker 07

  And I'm gonna try and always be kind

• 22:59Speaker 07

  to the me that remains.

• 23:06Speaker 07

  To the me that remains.

• 23:16Speaker 07

  Aww, that's fun.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  It's fun. That's a sweet song.

• 23:21Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  I loved it. I love hearing it like this, too. It's just so... Have you ever done a show solo or duo, like, super stripped down?

• 23:32Speaker 07

  Not yet.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  No, I think that would be so cool.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Your voice is so... It's you. It's like you're right here. I grew up listening to you. But your voice is so beautiful.

• 23:45Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  It's just... It just goes right here, you know?

• 23:49Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:51Speaker 07

  You know, it's funny touring anymore. Like, even before I started making this music, I'd probably do 80 shows a year. I don't know how much you tour. I feel like that's...

• 24:01Speaker 00

  Just on the regular?

• 24:02Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 24:03Speaker 07

  I mean, that includes Christmas.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  That's kind of the way to do it if you want to stay in it and keep busy, right?

• 24:12Speaker 07

  Right. And you sort of... I think you kind of have to... Sort of build trust with an audience that they'll go, oh, hey, I kind of feel like I'll go. Sometimes we don't take the responsibility of working hard enough. I think to, the ticket has to be worth somebody's time. Like, I'm always thinking, what, god, anybody could do anything with their time, their expendable income.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Were you like 15 or 16? When you started actually touring and?

• 24:40Speaker 07

  I was 17.

• 24:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 24:41Speaker 07

  When my first record came out.

• 24:43Speaker 00

  That's wild.

• 24:43Speaker 07

  And started touring and, I mean, it was, whoo, there's nothing to write home about. It was so unprofessional and lovely.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  It was probably amazing because it was, you were green, right?

• 24:56Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, I remember doing a show, the first show I ever did, like, I'm not sure what a ticket price was, it was the late 70s, but I remember looking out from behind the curtain and the theater wasn't full, but there were a lot of people there. And it was in Fort Worth, Texas, I think, the Will Rogers Auditorium.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  That's where I grew up.

• 25:19Speaker 07

  I knew a few people in Fort Worth, but not that many, you know? And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I mean, I played every song I could play and a few cover songs. And I, and I got to the end and I, I looked at my watch and I thought, that's not even a show. And I just went, I said, that's all I know is, somebody from the balcony shouted out, well, just do them over.

• 25:43Speaker 00

  Really?

• 25:44Speaker 07

  And I said, okay.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  Oh, my god, but that's so sweet.

• 25:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, I just started over. I don't think I played all of them, but it was like.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  And they stayed, they, nobody left.

• 25:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, I guess not.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  It was a theater, yeah. Well, that's so cool.

• 25:58Speaker 07

  But just being together, like, for us to do a song right here, music in the same room is so different.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  So different. And it's, it's become harder for people to record in the same room. People do a lot of stuff remotely and they add their parts later and it's a great tool, but it's, it's really nice to just be in the room.

• 26:18Speaker 07

  It is, because you feel people breathing.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:21Speaker 07

  And it kind of sets the. The pace, the tone, the movement.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and time is kind of whatever it wants to be. There's no grid.

• 26:31Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  You know?

• 26:33Speaker 06

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  Hey, this is Mario Lopez from All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops, while Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 27:41Speaker 04

  What's that? My fresh detector.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  Uh, your what? There it is. What is it detecting? Fresh produce, fresh meat. Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh?

• 27:55Speaker 05

  Apparently, we celebrate. At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices when your fresh detector is going off. Head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com.

• 28:08Speaker 00

  Hi, it's Kathleen Griffith, co-host of the Unshakeables podcast. Listen in as Ron and Kelly Moore share their story. I'm Ron Moore. And I'm Kelly Moore. And...

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Starting our own business in our 50s was a little scary, but exciting. The biggest advantage was our community. The whole thing about business is relationships. We'll say team a lot, not just our internal team. It's the team of our vendors, the team of our clients. We help the Veterans Resource Center and we give scholarships. I'm doing this for my heart, for my children, for you, for your children's family. I don't want anything back. And I tell a lot of people, don't give back to me, pay it forward. If you work to give, you just see the world differently. I'm gonna help as many people as we can. I can't take it with me. To hear more from Ron and Kelly, listen to The Unshakeables wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  When you came out and you started writing these songs, you were in the Christian music world, right? Did you aim to go in that way? Or is that just sort of the songs you were writing? Just did you end up just in that world? Somebody saw you. How did, how did you end up?

• 29:26Speaker 07

  Like when I was a teenager.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, like putting out a record in that sort of genre.

• 29:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, well, I didn't. When I first fell in love with music, I mean, I don't remember a time there wasn't a record player playing somewhere in my house. I have three big sisters, three older sisters. And somebody was always learning a guitar chord.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 29:49Speaker 07

  Nobody was proficient, but there was always a guitar lying around.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 29:54Speaker 07

  I think I got my first turntable maybe in the fifth grade. And listening to 40, all the 45s that my sisters had, but they had the Elvis's 50 greatest hits. You know, Beatles, all the singer songwriters, Joni Mitchell, James Taylor. And they had Jethro Tull, they had Emerson, Lincoln Palmer, they had Reeve Franklin.

• 30:17Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 30:17Speaker 07

  They had Jackson 5, you know.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  You were covered.

• 30:21Speaker 07

  Yes. And so I think the reason I started writing faith music honestly was.

• 30:28Speaker 07

  My two oldest sisters came back from going to, they started different colleges in the Boston area. And that was kind of in the early, mid 70s. And there was kind of this sort of Jesus movement sweeping Cambridge.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  Okay, and you were living in Boston?

• 30:46Speaker 07

  Nashville.

• 30:47Speaker 00

  Nashville, okay, you were from Nashville?

• 30:49Speaker 07

  I'm from Nashville, yeah. Anyway, so both my sisters at different times kind of got caught up in that, the really the Jesus hippie movement.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 31:00Speaker 07

  And I laugh and say, I think it was a combination of a lot of pot smoking and praising God. It was kind of all of it.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 07

  But when they came back to Nashville,

• 31:11Speaker 07

  you know, I was a kid that went to church with my mom and dad three times a week.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  Oh, wow, that's a lot of church.

• 31:16Speaker 07

  Sunday morning, Sunday night. And what I mostly remember was the music.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, we just had songbooks, but there was always singing. And I loved that. Yeah, and so when my sisters came back from Boston, they were looking for something that felt reminiscent of what they'd had in Boston. And so, and they found a church down on Music Row. And it, you know, it felt a little bit like a very communal,

• 31:45Speaker 07

  people were blue jeans, barefoot, lots of flowers, you know?

• 31:49Speaker 00

  More their age group, kind of, of that era.

• 31:52Speaker 07

  And I loved that. And anyway, and that church had a, like a bookstore, coffee shop connected to it. And they would have, on Saturday nights, just free concerts.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  Fun.

• 32:05Speaker 07

  And so I would go to those. And that was kind of that music coming from the West Coast.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 07

  Just sounded like, you know,

• 32:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:12Speaker 07

  singer-songwriter, Southern rock, but all sort of with faith lyrics.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 32:16Speaker 07

  And so, I mean, I guess the reason I wrote my first song was because at the prep school I went to, just a girl's school in Nashville. We had mandatory chapel programs every week. And it was not a faith-based school, but I guess it was, you know, it's the South.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 07

  It's culture. We might have a rabbi come speak.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  Oh, really? Oh, that's amazing. So it was all over the map.

• 32:44Speaker 07

  Yeah. And I remember thinking, God, I wish I could bring some of that coffee shop feeling to this.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 07

  Because, you know, we just were sitting there in our uniforms and our assigned seats. And a lot of times it was boring. And so I went to the head of school. This was like my sophomore year. And I said, hey, would you let me sign up for a chapel program? And she said, well, what do you think you're gonna do? And I said, I think it's gonna be music. And she said, okay. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I've got to write some songs.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  Oh, crap.

• 33:19Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  Nothing like a deadline, right?

• 33:21Speaker 07

  Yes, yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  Well, that's so crazy.

• 33:24Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I was too shy to do it by myself. So there was another kid in my class, and she was a great singer. And I said, can we just like do? I don't have 30 minutes worth of music, but I had maybe four or five songs that I'd written.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Already with guitar?

• 33:39Speaker 07

  Yes. And just, you know, to me, it was just like I, my curiosity had so been whetted about like our spiritual lives.

• 33:52Speaker 07

  You know, because to me, that's the real connective tissue.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:55Speaker 07

  And and it was just like the frontier. And I just wanted to start that conversation with my friends. You know, I think I was 15. I had zero answers, but I felt full of faith and possibility, you know?

• 34:11Speaker 00

  That's so beautiful.

• 34:12Speaker 07

  Yeah, so I kind of wedged the songs I'd written in between, you know, Carole King, Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?

• 34:20Speaker 00

  Oh, that's great.

• 34:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, it was just fun. And it was not about.

• 34:25Speaker 07

  Look at me, look at me.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. It was about connection.

• 34:28Speaker 07

  It was just about connection, yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's really beautiful, how you came into it. And I love that the school had a variety of different faiths coming in. That's, I think that is very interesting. People get so, you know, tunnel vision with what they believe. I think to educate kids like that is really unique.

• 34:52Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  It sounds really unique to me. I've never heard of that happening.

• 34:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, and you know what? I mean, that was a long time ago. It was forty, fifty years ago. Good God.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's wild.

• 35:04Speaker 07

  But I, you know, I'd have to go back and I remember that what really compelled me to ask to do one of those chapel programs was sitting through somebody that was in a, I don't even remember what branch of the Christian faith it was. But it felt so political.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  It did.

• 35:23Speaker 07

  Even to my fifteen-year-old, and I was going, like,

• 35:28Speaker 07

  shouldn't this be talking about, you know, love?

• 35:31Speaker 00

  More broad. So it was limiting when they came in?

• 35:36Speaker 07

  Just, I just remember one day kind of going, I don't think this is, I don't think a chapel program's supposed to be about politics.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Got you, yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 07

  And that's, so I, you know, just kind of went to the head of school and said, what if?

• 35:50Speaker 00

  I think that's amazing.

• 35:51Speaker 07

  What if I did one?

• 35:52Speaker 00

  I've realized that as I've gotten older, I feel like a lot of songs that I write are, do have more of a faith component to them.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  I never had that when I was younger, but now I do. I feel like it might not be noticeable. It might be, sound like it's being written to a lover, but sometimes I'm writing to... Are you up there?

• 36:18Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 00

  You know, help me out here to God. And but in a very broad way. And I think that's such a beautiful way to write. You can be really honest in a way.

• 36:33Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  That you can't be in a way if you're writing about a specific person, you know.

• 36:37Speaker 07

  Yeah. And I find that sometimes I'll go back and listen to a song that I wrote years before. And I'll think, oh, my gosh, I was like creating a soft place to land.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 07

  Because of something I was going to go through. And so many times, I think what we write is we don't even have to really understand it.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 36:56Speaker 07

  You know, it just kind of comes through you.

• 36:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree with that.

• 36:58Speaker 07

  Like in our family, Vince and I are in our 60s. We've got one of our blended families 40s, three in their 30s, one's in their 20s.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 37:06Speaker 07

  And no matter, you know, everybody's perspective on any given topic just comes straight from where they are in their life journey.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 37:14Speaker 07

  I mean, nobody's seeing eye to eye, you know, or just having a different perspective.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, you go through such different things.

• 37:20Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Different times in your life.

• 37:22Speaker 07

  Yeah, and the phrase, whether we say it out loud or not, is always everybody's right on time for their perspective.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 07

  It's like our youngest, the fervor, you know, that she might feel about anything, whether it's anger, frustration, you know, it's just, it's just right there.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 07

  And her next older sister, eight years older, and still she's like, she'd ask somebody, she'd paid somebody to do a job, and it wasn't done right. She was feeling all the frustration.

• 37:53Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 37:53Speaker 07

  Let me see, what formulas for problem solving do we have at this stage of the game?

• 37:58Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 37:59Speaker 07

  And we're getting back in the car, and she said, I am so hangry, and I want to call a friend and go have a session, and I don't think you're the good person for me for this.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  You're trying to fix it.

• 38:11Speaker 07

  Well, or just, I'm just looking at it.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:13Speaker 07

  You know, I'm kind of looking at it from every angle.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  Sometimes people need to vent.

• 38:16Speaker 07

  Gosh, yes.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  It's like you have to ask, do you want me to fix this, or you want me to just listen?

• 38:21Speaker 07

  Right, yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  Right now.

• 38:22Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I said, go, hey, go spend time with, you know, get the person you need in that slot.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 38:30Speaker 07

  And so, yeah, but then like 36 hours later, the combination of our efforts, she was like, oh, my gosh, this totally rectified itself.

• 38:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 07

  Almost magically, but it's because I reached out to my friends, she reached out to her friends and you know, like everything.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  You got to sleep on it.

• 38:48Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  To get any clarity.

• 38:51Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Right?

• 38:53Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 38:54Speaker 06

  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or

• 39:37Speaker 06

  a Corolla sedan with the latest features and tech, or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  What's that? My fresh detector. Uh, your what? There it is. What is it detecting? Fresh produce, fresh meat. Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh? Apparently, we celebrate. At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices when your fresh detector is going off. Head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. Hi, it's Kathleen Griffith, co-host of the Unshakeables podcast. Listen in as Ron and Kelly Moore share their story. I'm Ron Moore.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  And I'm Kelly Moore. And starting our own business in our 50s was a little scary, but exciting.

• 40:49Speaker 05

  The biggest advantage was our community. The whole thing about business is relationships.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  We'll say team a lot, not just our internal team, it's the team of our vendors.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  The team of our clients. We help the Veterans Resource Center and we give scholarships. I'm doing this for my heart, for my children, for you, for your children's family. I don't want anything back. And I tell a lot of people, don't give back to me. Pay it forward. If you work to give, you just see the world differently. I'm gonna help as many people as we can. I can't take it with me. To hear more from Ron and Kelly, listen to The Unshakeables wherever you get your podcasts.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  So how many albums did you put out that were sort of faith-based before you, you, you went?

• 41:38Speaker 07

  More pop?

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, more pop. Even though I find some of your pop songs so heart, faith, you know?

• 41:45Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  Like, do you find genre kind of, it's not really about you, that you guys can deal with that? And, or, or do you think about it?

• 41:55Speaker 07

  Yeah. Well, um, the only time I am like focused on thinking about it is if I'm being introduced. Like I'm about to walk out and sing a song, or I'm about to speak. And so often, the introduction, like in my mind, I will go, if I, if I heard that introduction, I would have zero curiosity about this person. I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be there.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 07

  But like if I'm on an airplane and somebody says, what do you do? I'll say, well, I have a family and I'm a songwriter.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 42:34Speaker 07

  And that's it.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 42:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 07

  And what kind of songs do you write? Oh, just songs about life.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't think genre is for people who make music. I don't think they really, most people I know don't subscribe to that very, very much. But I know that when, when that album came out, it was a big deal. It was a huge album, the first.

• 42:58Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. Heart and Motion.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  Heart and Motion, yes. I mean, this was my like peak listening time to pop music. And it was, I mean, it was crazy. It was just such a big album. And I knew all the songs and I loved it. And I didn't know your work before that.

• 43:14Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  But I knew the chatter about, oh, this is her pop album. And before she was making Christian music, like as an 11-year-old, I knew that. Isn't that wild?

• 43:25Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  And I was just wondering if. Was that time something where people were coming at you about that? Did you, did you have, was it, um, did the crossover feel like a crossover to you? You know what I mean? Like, was it something that was confusing the way people talked about it at the time? Because you're just making music, right?

• 43:50Speaker 07

  Right.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 07

  Well, I wasn't really exposed to the chatter.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 43:58Speaker 07

  And that really was a different time.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  That's good, yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 07

  And also, um, I'm just remembering, like, all through the eighties. So I dropped out of college after four years. I mean, I finished four years of school, but I was working that whole time. And so I was always getting just a little farther behind.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 07

  But it was so lovely then to not be in school and I could just tour and make music all the time.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:27Speaker 07

  And so, you know, for years, I just crisscrossed the United States singing. And I didn't really, it, it was just so much fun that I wasn't thinking about

• 44:41Speaker 07

  an overall impact. I mean, it was fun and hard work. It was just the life we were living.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, you were just doing the, doing the work.

• 44:49Speaker 07

  Just doing it, yeah. And, um, and for me, honestly, every time some new door opened up, I would be like, "Really?" Like, me. That's how I felt with anything that, like, an opportunity.

• 45:06Speaker 07

  So in the, in the eight, in the mid eighties, I remember, um, you know, Chicago, the band was so big. Peter Satira was gonna do his first solo album. And I had met a producer named Michael O'Martin. I'd never worked with him, but I guess he had wanted to work with me. And he tracked me down at my college roommate's house in Atlanta.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  Whoa.

• 45:28Speaker 07

  Like, nobody had cell phones.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 07

  I'm not sure how I got the phone. It was like a, a wall mount in her kitchen. And he was like, "Amy, this is Omar, and, um, I'd love for you to do this song with Pete Satira." Well, you know, I had grown up with Chicago.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 45:46Speaker 07

  And I just, I slid down the wall until I'm seated on the floor. And in my mind, like... Have all female singers died overnight?

• 45:57Speaker 00

  That's what she got. By the last call.

• 46:00Speaker 07

  Yeah, I was like, what? You know, and Peter had never heard of me.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  He had, and he was the producer.

• 46:07Speaker 07

  He was the producer.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 07

  And I was like, oh, my gosh, yes, I would love to do that. And the Christian record company I was signed to went to A&M Records and said, "We have an artist that we feel like has appeal beyond the Christian marketplace."

• 46:26Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 46:27Speaker 07

  And so they did that legwork for me.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  That's pretty, that's great.

• 46:31Speaker 07

  Yeah, and so I was like, OK. Yeah, and I guess they, maybe they felt that way because what I was already doing was just sort of music that I hoped appealed across the.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's really wild.

• 46:46Speaker 07

  Yeah. The writing for that record happened, I was expecting my second child. And, you know, I would just wake up in the morning and work on lyrics, work on songs. And, um, and then, you know, also touring. And I think I toured until, in preparation for that record, I toured a record called Lead Beyond, which, you talk about a heavy record. I had been through some personal things that were difficult for me in my marriage and my grandmother had passed away. I mean, things that happened to everybody. But, you know, when you're young, you kind of feel like,

• 47:30Speaker 07

  it's happening. But that record actually resonated with the grassroots audience that I had grown, I guess. Yeah, I just think music finds.

• 47:46Speaker 07

  Audiences.

• 47:47Speaker 00

  I do too. You just love to play music. You write from your heart. And that's what anyone can hope for, I think. You know, in this business.

• 47:57Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  That's all you want to do. And I was listening back to that, that album with Baby Baby on it. And it's crazy because the production is wild. It's synthesizer heaven.

• 48:12Speaker 07

  Keith Thomas.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  It's so good. It's not dated in like a cheesy way. Like it's, it's from a very specific era and you can definitely hear it. But it is badass. It is like, I mean, it's like synth heaven. It's, it's just, yeah. Did you ever work with that kind of stuff before that album? Or were you pretty acoustic minded before that?

• 48:33Speaker 07

  A little bit. Just, you know, the, the producer I'd worked with before that, his name was Brown Bannister. And he had done all my records up to that point.

• 48:43Speaker 00

  So this was a change in producers too? So the sonic landscape was, that's a big change.

• 48:50Speaker 07

  It was a big change, yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 48:52Speaker 07

  And yeah, it was fun. That move was made, that decision was made by my managers at the time, who were big music lovers. And they were like, they just wanted to fan any flame they could find.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, they did it, they did it.

• 49:07Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, it worked. I was kind of nerding out on it. Like the synth bass and then the, the little keyboard solo and Baby Baby.

• 49:17Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  I was trying to play it. I'm not very synth, I'm not good with finding sounds, but I'm a, I'm a fan.

• 49:24Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 07

  That's a gift.

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a totally different thing, yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  I don't have the patience, I think, is what it is.

• 49:32Speaker 07

  Well, and yeah, just also different things kind of bring you joy.

• 49:36Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:36Speaker 07

  Man, when I think about just that time in life and making music.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:43Speaker 07

  We lived out in the country, a lot of space. But my sister lived next door with her four kids. So I had young kids too. But her kids would come over. And they were like, you know, 10 years older than mine. And if I, I'd have a song idea and I would play two or three ideas and say, which one do you never want to hear again?

• 50:05Speaker 00

  For the kids?

• 50:06Speaker 07

  Uh huh.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 50:07Speaker 07

  Which one's your favorite? Because to me, that, the record before that, Lead Me On, was so serious. And you know, you tour a serious record for a year and it's like,

• 50:18Speaker 00

  It's heavy.

• 50:19Speaker 07

  Oh, gosh.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:20Speaker 07

  Can we just have some fun already?

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 07

  And so really, I think that, you know, where I was in my personal life, having two young kids and all they kind of wanted to do was just, you know, roll around and play and have fun.

• 50:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's just interesting how music comes out of what your life is.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's such a fun record. That's, it's very joyful.

• 50:46Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  And it is fun. That's so funny. I, also, sometimes out of darkness can come that because you're trying to counterbalance it, you know, too.

• 50:59Speaker 07

  So the last song on that record is a song called Hope Said Hi. So while recording, I'm touring, I'm juggling my family of two kids so far.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  That's a lot, by the way.

• 51:11Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  That is a lot.

• 51:12Speaker 07

  It was a lot.

• 51:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 07

  So during that same season, this was so nuts, I'm always running into groups of kids that would maybe come to a concert because they came with their youth group.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 51:26Speaker 07

  So even-

• 51:27Speaker 00

  And they'd stick around.

• 51:28Speaker 07

  Yeah, well, so my, my experience was always kind of the collision of life. Because of the way I grew up, a lot of times, my approach was not necessarily, not necessarily welcomed by a religious culture.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  Because you were so open, do you think?

• 51:50Speaker 07

  I don't know what it was.

• 51:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 51:52Speaker 07

  So, and usually it was someone quite a bit older than I was, saying something about what I was doing. And I was like, hey, I'm just doing the best I can.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 07

  But I didn't feel like...

• 52:01Speaker 00

  Stupid.

• 52:03Speaker 07

  You know, I just was there.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 07

  And so, everybody's trying to find their way. But, so during that very busy time, I got the idea from my friend and manager, Jen Cook. That was not her job at the time, but she was my friend. And she said, why don't we create a gathering that's not a church building? And like, talk to kids about things like God, prayer, the real struggles of life. But don't do it in a dress up, you know, they're not coming to a cathedral.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 07

  They're not coming to a mosque. They're not coming to, it's just people living life.

• 52:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:44Speaker 07

  And so, once again, this is before social media. So, we invited a handful of friends to like, be the leadership. So, we did, we made up skits. I wrote music. Two of us wrote music, just have sing-alongs. And we invited high school and college kids. Like, we just papered the street, the phone poles. Come to our farm. And we met in the loft of our barn.

• 53:13Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 53:14Speaker 07

  It was crazy. And like, I think there were times I tried to cook chili or... Anyway, while I'm doing publicity around the world, I'm also coming home and hosting these gatherings in the loft of our barn.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 53:32Speaker 07

  And those gatherings went from, they started off just a couple of hundred people. But I think the largest one we ever had was over 700 kids.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 53:41Speaker 07

  In the loft of our barn.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  That sounds so fun.

• 53:44Speaker 07

  And so, and that last song on the record, "Hope Said Hi," I wrote for the very first gathering.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 53:50Speaker 07

  Just going, you know, hey, why'd you come? Because we just came to, we came to share life together. And, yeah. So, hopefully, records always for all of us reflect...

• 54:04Speaker 07

  You know, the life we're finding one day at a time.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love that. Would you play a minute of that song for me? Would you mind?

• 54:14Speaker 07

  "Hope Set High"?

• 54:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. Do you?

• 54:16Speaker 07

  Let me see if I can-

• 54:17Speaker 00

  I don't wanna-

• 54:18Speaker 07

  No, that's good.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  I would love to hear it.

• 54:22Speaker 07

  I don't know if I'll remember the chords right. I've got my hopes set high. That's why I came tonight.

• 54:33Speaker 07

  I need to see the truth. I need to see the light.

• 54:42Speaker 07

  I've got my hopes set high. That's why I came tonight.

• 54:51Speaker 07

  I need to see the truth. I need to see the light. Cause I can do my best and pray to the Father. But the one thing I oughta know by now. When it all comes down. When it all comes down. If there's anything good that happens in life, it's from Jesus.

• 55:22Speaker 07

  I tell you, when it all comes down.

• 55:28Speaker 07

  When it all comes down. If there's anything good that happens in life, it's from Jesus.

• 55:41Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful.

• 55:46Speaker 00

  I can just picture the barn.

• 55:47Speaker 07

  And these kids.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 07

  Yeah. I know. God, music is just such a great connector.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I mean, they talk about those sacred spaces now and how a lot of people just stopped going to church. I don't know. I don't have any friends my age who go to church with their kids.

• 56:05Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  And, but, but music is one of those places, right? Where you can gather and just be together.

• 56:12Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  So, it is a special thing.

• 56:15Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  I'm sure in Nashville, more people go to church. But up here in New York-

• 56:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, and it, and it, and I think different times in people's lives, as you know, it's just such a noisy world.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 07

  And I think some people just feel like what they really need is just to find some quiet.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:37Speaker 07

  And so, um, yeah, and that, just finding the space to just try to quiet your

• 56:50Speaker 07

  heart and mind and, you know, I had a young man call me, this has been a couple of years ago, and he's not interested in church, not interested in any of that, but, you know, what I want to do always is encourage somebody to listen to their gut.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:09Speaker 07

  Because I'm sitting there going, hey, if the divine, and I believe the divine does speak to us, but it's probably not going to be on a billboard, it's probably going to be in your gut.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:20Speaker 07

  And he called me about something that was so random, and I, I held some information there's no way he could have known that he needed. And he said, I was, I was about to make this decision, I just felt compelled to call you. And I said, what in the world made you call? And he said, I don't know, I just, like, I took my hands off the computer and I picked up the phone. And I was so glad, I was so glad for him that he listened to that.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:54Speaker 07

  And I just said, don't, don't ever ignore that voice.

• 58:01Speaker 07

  Always listen.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:03Speaker 07

  To that, that other, that like, kind of stopped you in your tracks. Always listen to that, make a space for that.

• 58:11Speaker 00

  Well, you're a gem. I, I'm gonna call you now when I have a hard time, I think.

• 58:16Speaker 07

  Can I tell you, when you're, when you said, hey, Amy, it's Nora, and I was like, I was so glad.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  Aw.

• 58:24Speaker 07

  I was so glad, because I just thought, man, I, you know, your music, I told you when we first met today that I, the Willie Nelson and Friends concert that you participated in, was that?

• 58:37Speaker 00

  That was at the Ryman.

• 58:39Speaker 07

  It was at the Ryman, was it?

• 58:40Speaker 00

  It was his 70th birthday, and he's now 90, I think he's turning 93 this, this month.

• 58:46Speaker 07

  Oh, my gosh, it was, and that was kind of a crazy.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  That was crazy lineup.

• 58:51Speaker 07

  Eclectic group of people.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I was the newbie and nobody really knew me yet. I was like very, it was right when my first album came out and I hadn't gotten huge yet, so.

• 59:02Speaker 07

  Well, I'm gonna tell you, your voice, you turned that entire auditory on its ear.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  Aw.

• 59:09Speaker 07

  And Nashville is a listening audience.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, they definitely are.

• 59:13Speaker 07

  Especially in that space.

• 59:13Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 59:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, I love nights, you know, when you're going to hear someone that you know, but you don't realize there's gonna be a special guest.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:22Speaker 07

  Sometimes the opening act, I'll be like, oh, my gosh, I would have missed this.

• 59:26Speaker 00

  That probably happened, you go out a lot and hear music in Nashville?

• 59:28Speaker 07

  Um, I wish I went more, there are seasons in my life when I've gone to a lot more.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 07

  I do, it's funny, COVID kind of put the skids on a lot of that.

• 59:38Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:40Speaker 07

  And then just, I think I travel so much, really, I.

• 59:45Speaker 00

  You just want to be home.

• 59:47Speaker 07

  I love being home.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 07

  And I love being barefoot in the backyard and, yeah, like, what star's gonna see tonight?

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's cool. I feel you, I'm like, I live in New York City and I.

• 59:58Speaker 07

  Oh, yes.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  I'm like, oh, that sounds like a fun show that I would want to go to in my dreams. But then I go to bed early instead.

• 1:00:05Speaker 07

  And I feel that way when people, when I go out, you know, when I'm onstage and I walk out and I go, I know when the tickets went on sale, this sounded like a great idea.

• 1:00:14Speaker 00

  And they probably had a hard time motivating.

• 1:00:16Speaker 07

  And then tonight, you're going, oh, my gosh, nothing sounds better than PJs, but you.

• 1:00:21Speaker 00

  You made it.

• 1:00:22Speaker 07

  You got in your car.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:00:23Speaker 07

  You're here.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  I started to realize that last year when I was on tour and I thought, oh, my gosh, it's hard to get people out now.

• 1:00:31Speaker 07

  It is.

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  And I'm really grateful that, you know, I could do these shows and there's some people that came out of their house.

• 1:00:38Speaker 07

  Yes, and I'm, I never regret when I go out and hear music, I never regret it.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Totally, but you're excited to go home.

• 1:00:45Speaker 07

  But, yeah, yeah, well, to me, that's what's so cool about like conversations like this. Is that somebody can be home and hear some music.

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's nice.

• 1:00:55Speaker 07

  And get a feel for, yeah, just people being people.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know what you mean. Well, I'mma look you up when I come to Nashville.

• 1:01:04Speaker 07

  Hey, we got rocking chairs on our front porch.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  All right.

• 1:01:08Speaker 07

  I'm serious.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Sounds good.

• 1:01:10Speaker 07

  Okay, that would be awesome.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  That sounds awesome. Do you want to do one more song? Do you feel like doing Baby Baby?

• 1:01:17Speaker 07

  Come on, let's try it.

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, because my 12-year-old self might die.

• 1:01:21Speaker 07

  Come on.

• 1:01:23Speaker 00

  Here, I might switch to, I don't know.

• 1:01:25Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  Keanu or Wherley. Oh, I wanted to say something. Your songs all have crazy key changes. And that is a kind of a lost art. We were just talking about this earlier. And this one has a hilarious up key change and then it goes back down and then it goes back up. It was so funny getting inside of, you know, doing this, you get inside the songs in a way you don't normally do. And I was like.

• 1:01:50Speaker 07

  Isn't that the truth, yes?

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  It's so funny. It goes up, then goes back down, and then it goes back up.

• 1:01:55Speaker 07

  Yeah. Part of that is I don't have a very large range. And so, you know, if you want to.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Speaker 07

  We got to keep it.

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  You got to lift it.

• 1:02:04Speaker 07

  I got to have some launch room.

• 1:02:05Speaker 00

  I know, but it's just so funny. It's like, I never think to do key changes. It's a real lost art, too. And you don't hear them as much anymore.

• 1:02:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  It's great. Do you want to start it so I don't start it too slow?

• 1:02:18Speaker 07

  Okay, let me think about it.

• 1:03:07Speaker 07

  Baby, baby, the stars are shining for you. And just like me, I'm sure they all adore you. Baby, baby, I'm walking through the forest. The birds above are singing you a chorus. Stop for a minute, baby, I'm so glad you're mine.

• 1:03:34Speaker 07

  You're mine. And ever since the day you put my heart in motion, baby, I realize that there's just no getting over you.

• 1:03:51Speaker 07

  Over you.

• 1:03:58Speaker 07

  Baby, baby, in any kind of weather, I'm here for you always and forever. Baby, baby, no muscle man could sever. My love for you is true and it will never stop. For a minute, baby, I'm so glad you're mine. Oh, yeah. And ever since the day you put my heart in motion, baby, I realize that there's just no getting over you.

• 1:04:48Speaker 07

  Come on, sister.

• 1:05:20Speaker 07

  Bass note, that's hard one. Baby, always in forever, yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 07

  Baby, I'm so glad that when I think about you, it makes me smile. Baby, baby, you're mine.

• 1:05:39Speaker 07

  Baby, I'm so glad that you're mine.

• 1:05:44Speaker 07

  Baby, I'm so glad that you're mine.

• 1:05:50Speaker 07

  Baby, I'm so glad that you're mine.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  That's too fun.

• 1:05:59Speaker 07

  That's fun. I'm picturing your nine, 10, 11 year old self.

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  Oh, I used to call myself Neon Nora and I would wear all this neon. Nobody else called me that. It was so sad. I was like, I'm gonna be Neon Nora.

• 1:06:12Speaker 07

  That's beautiful.

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  It was so funny.

• 1:06:14Speaker 07

  Oh, God.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  That's great. Thanks for doing that with me.

• 1:06:17Speaker 07

  Yeah, I put a big smile on my face.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  Me too. Thanks so much for joining me. This was so fun.

• 1:06:22Speaker 07

  This has been fantastic.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  Let's hang again sometime, please.

• 1:06:25Speaker 07

  I'd love that.

• 1:06:25Speaker 00

  All right. That was so fun. I got to do Baby Baby.

• 1:06:29Speaker 07

  Oh, I know.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  I got to sing Baby Baby with Amy.

• 1:06:32Speaker 07

  Took me right back.

• 1:06:33Speaker 00

  I know, it was great.

• 1:06:34Speaker 07

  My bedroom.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  She's so great.

• 1:06:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:37Speaker 07

  I love her story too. She really like had an interesting road back to music.

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, really interesting and just a good, good human.

• 1:06:45Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like making friends.

• 1:06:47Speaker 07

  New friend.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  New friends. And the songs we did, if you want to know, first one we did was The Me That Remains, which is the title track from her new album that just came out in May of 2026. The second song was A Snippet of Hope Set High, which was a song on Heart in Motion, which came out in 1991. And the third song we did was Baby Baby. From Heart in Motion, 1991. Special thanks to Amy Grant for joining us today, and we'll be back next week with Michelle and Daggie O'Cello. Norah Jones is playing along as production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry, audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler, artwork by Eliza Fry, photography by Sherwin-Lenez, produced

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda, executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog, marketing lead Allison Cantor-Graeber. Woo!

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