SASAMI

Singer, songwriter, and producer SASAMI joins Norah for a conversation about her distinctive musical path, from classical training on a “random instrument” to creating her own bold, fearless sound.

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• 2:05Speaker 00

  This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Sasami.

• 2:16Speaker 07

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Hi, welcome to the show.

• 2:30Speaker 07

  This is Sarah Oda. Thanks for joining me.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  Hi.

• 2:36Speaker 07

  Hi. Our guest today is singer-songwriter, producer, composer, and multi-instrumentalist Sasami Ashworth. She's a classically trained French horn player. She also spent years playing in the band Cherry Glazer. And her third solo studio album, Blood on the Silver Screen, came out last year in 2025. And it just kind of shows how fearless she is in changing things up.

• 3:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, this was so fun. I love getting to know her.

• 3:04Speaker 07

  Her voice is cool, right? It's so low.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  We had to lower all the keys.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was just great. I love getting to know new people. I really didn't know much about her before we talked about having her on. And then when I checked her out, I was really excited. And I look forward to hearing more from her. She's amazing.

• 3:24Speaker 07

  She's very cool. I mean, in this episode, you hear about how she's kind of had a few different musical lives and how she's always just followed her instincts, both in her life and her career. Also, some interesting background information about her.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  Very interesting. She should make a film about that.

• 3:44Speaker 07

  Yeah. And as always, beautiful duets, including homage to an artist that you both love.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Yes, this was really fun. Hope you enjoy the episode with Sasami.

• 3:57Speaker 07

  There is some spicy language in this episode, so listener discretion is advised. It's not that bad, but just so you know, it's there.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Set on into a life That you lie for a little while

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Have a kid, get a pretty wife Get a real job and a fake smile

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Nothing is wrong and nothing's right And I know that you're leaving tonight But I want you to know I want you to know you're not alone I want you to know You can always call me home

• 5:36Speaker 00

  A little bit of a bad thing Never hurts anyone

• 5:49Speaker 00

  But too much of a good thing is like a hand on your neck So you drive and you drive till you burn in your eyes In the heat of the morning sun

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Nothing is wrong and nothing's right And I know that you're leaving tonight

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Packing your bags and saying your goodbyes

• 6:23Speaker 07

  But I want you, I want you to know. I want you to know you're not alone. I want you to know you can always call me home. Oh, I want you to know. I want you to know you're not alone.

• 7:06Speaker 07

  I want you to know you can always call me home. You're giving nothing. Oh.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  I love this song.

• 7:44Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's such a like, it's got that chord progression that's just like, it settles right in.

• 7:49Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 7:50Speaker 00

  You know, it's melancholy.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  Definitely. I feel like there's, there's an unnamed Fleetwood Mac song that I was definitely listening, like, there's definitely something very Christine McVie about the chorus.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I love Christine McVie.

• 8:02Speaker 05

  So good.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:03Speaker 05

  It's, okay, it's actually, it's the, um.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  You can tell me.

• 8:07Speaker 05

  It's a song, it's, um.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Over my head.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  I'm over my head.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Oh, it doesn't sound anything like that to me. I know what you mean.

• 8:28Speaker 05

  Or is it out of my mind? Only over you. Baby, please don't go.

• 8:38Speaker 05

  I miss you when you're gone.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Over my head. That one?

• 8:42Speaker 05

  No, no.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  It's a different one.

• 8:43Speaker 05

  It's a different one.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 05

  I'm out of my mind. But it's only over you. It's so good. It's like from one of the eighties, like one of the like later.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  Tusk or something.

• 8:55Speaker 05

  She's such a legend.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  I love Christine McVie.

• 8:57Speaker 05

  Me too.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:58Speaker 05

  Cause like, I feel like, cause I have a low voice, I'm always into the low voice girlies, like Wise Bloods, Stephenix, Jessica Pratt, like everyone that has like a low timbre voice, I'm like.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, you have a very low voice.

• 9:08Speaker 05

  I know. I have, it's so funny though, there's like home videos of me from when I'm five, you know, like when your parents take the little camcorder videos and I'm like, hi mom.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  You had the low voice when you were little? That's so funny.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  It's really funny. I don't know why, but.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  You know, genetics.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  Whenever you're writing a song and you sort of hear hints of another song in it, do you stop yourself?

• 9:31Speaker 05

  Um, I feel like a lot of times I'll, it's, I feel like it's like this spiritual thing. Sometimes you just hear a song and you're like, I need to write a song right now.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 05

  And it's almost like a spiritual like leapfrog, it's like tag. They're like, you're it.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  You're anointed now, go write a song. And it feels like bad to block that.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree.

• 9:52Speaker 05

  I'm like, if I real, if I like ask my friends I trust, I'm like, does this sound too much like that song?

• 9:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think that when I'm writing a song and it's starting to sound like something else, I have to keep going.

• 10:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Because it always, when you get at the end of the washing machine.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  It comes out of the dryer and it's like a different song.

• 10:11Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Right?

• 10:12Speaker 05

  You're like, yeah, I was inspired by like, you know, Stephenix and they're like, okay, girl.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I never, yeah, I always feel like in the end it just fits differently and it looks very different.

• 10:23Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  And it sounds very different.

• 10:24Speaker 05

  Is everything so.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, anything to block it is bad.

• 10:27Speaker 05

  Definitely.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 05

  I think blocking any creative anything is bad.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:31Speaker 05

  Like, it's a miracle when you get struck with some side of sort of inspiration. So you gotta.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 05

  Let it flow. It has nothing to do with us. The songs.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Really doesn't. Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 05

  Or just the, the, the module, the, you know, the, the portal for them to enter this world.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I had a hard time writing when I was young and I think a lot of young people, they think maybe they can't write, but it's because they don't just get it out.

• 10:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  You know. When did you start writing songs?

• 10:58Speaker 05

  I didn't really start writing songs till I was like twenty six or twenty seven.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  Really?

• 11:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, cuz I always played French horn.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  And so you're just like one of a hundred soldiers.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  So you were a music school kid?

• 11:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, music school kid. I went to like Idyllwild Summer Camp and then Loxa, the arts high school in LA. And then Eastman, which is like a music conservatory.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, East Coast. Okay.

• 11:21Speaker 05

  Very, very intense classical world.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Always French horn?

• 11:24Speaker 05

  Always French horn. But I, I did do a music ed major cuz my dad was a high school teacher and he's like, get a music ed degree if you can.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Just in case.

• 11:31Speaker 05

  You know, just like for the same cost, you can get two degrees. And I was like, yeah, whatever. But because of that, I had to learn, like, you know, you might be a band teacher someday, so you have to learn like oboe, saxophone, violin. You have to learn every instrument.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  You have to learn enough on every instrument so that you can.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  Exactly. You have to be proficient in every instrument. So.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  I didn't know that.

• 11:48Speaker 05

  There would be like epic world-class pianists and like, you know, the practice rooms, there was like fifty practice rooms of people just like playing like Rachmaninoff, like, um, symphonies or, um, concertos. And then it would be like me practicing oboe like so bad.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Oh, because you were starting, just starting on the oboe.

• 12:05Speaker 05

  It was like the most heinous sound of like, like probably someone who's gonna be like a concert pianist with the LA Phil or something. And then like me practicing saxophone.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Practicing beginner oboe.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, doing like, so ridiculous.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Great.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  But anyways.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  I went to Interlockin.

• 12:18Speaker 05

  I was humbled early on.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it.

• 12:20Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, Interlockin.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  I went there for two summers.

• 12:22Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  And I went as a jazz piano major and their jazz program was very small compared to the orchestra and the band and everything. So I was like, doop-a-doo, doo.

• 12:31Speaker 05

  Idyllwild was like that too. Those were like the two, like kind of summer, summer camps where you get your first kiss from some nerdy.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Drummer. Mine was a percussionist.

• 12:41Speaker 05

  I don't even think I got kissed, but I had like every crush on every like,

• 12:44Speaker 00

  I had so many crushes.

• 12:45Speaker 05

  Theater kids.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 05

  Cause just interlock, interlock and only music though, right?

• 12:49Speaker 00

  No, no, it's everything. So it was dance, theater, art. Yeah, it was great.

• 12:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had all the crushes.

• 12:54Speaker 05

  I grew up in that world too.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  I love that world and I loved going, it was, it's cool cause it's in the woods, it's idle well, like that.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's in the San Bernardino mountains.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah, you're in the woods and there's all these like practice huts. It's very magical.

• 13:08Speaker 05

  I mean, it changed my life for sure. It was really random. I was like in middle school, I played French horn, which is the randomest instrument. Can you curse on this podcast?

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 05

  It's the randomest fucking instrument. Like to be like a small sixth grader carrying a French horn case, which is like the most awkward shaped case around. Like, I mean, I was also voted most unique in eighth grade. So that says a lot about like what kind of person I was.

• 13:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  But such a random instrument, but because it's so random, no one really plays it compared to like flute and saxophone and violin.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  It's a tricky instrument.

• 13:37Speaker 05

  It's hard when you're a kid too, cause it's really like the,

• 13:40Speaker 00

  It's big.

• 13:41Speaker 05

  The leap up from being really, really, really bad to being even remotely okay is real, like that's a huge gulf. Whereas on piano, it's like you press the key and you know, that sounds good.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. No, you gotta get a sound and it's, it's really hard, right?

• 13:54Speaker 05

  It was just kind of like random that I don't even know why I picked it, but because of that, I got all these scholarships into programs that I had, literally everyone around me was so much better at their instruments.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  Oh, because it's such a rare instrument.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  They're like, if you show up and hold the French horn, we'll like give you a full ride scholarship.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 14:09Speaker 05

  So I kept kind of failing up into all these programs and then eventually you're in it enough that you like rise to the occasion and you get good enough because it's embarrassing to be bad. But yeah, I got really lucky.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  I can kind of relate to that because I was never great at practicing.

• 14:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  I think at the end of interlock and I actually, they had us playing Moments Notice, which was like a fast song. And I tried to soul on it and I couldn't keep up.

• 14:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  I could soul on it as a ballad, probably.

• 14:33Speaker 05

  Is it double time?

• 14:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's very fast and I think I cried at the end. That was awesome.

• 14:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  You know, we learned, we learned from falling.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. I cried in the back. Nobody saw me.

• 14:45Speaker 05

  That's good.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 05

  Was it, it was like a full jazz ensemble?

• 14:48Speaker 00

  It was, yeah, it was jazz ensemble. It wasn't huge, but it was like-

• 14:51Speaker 05

  You had your whiplash, mommy?

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was, I was like, I can't keep up. I was like, slow it down.

• 14:57Speaker 05

  It's so funny how serious that feels.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 05

  And then when you get older, you're like, that's adorable.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  It's a great story.

• 15:02Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  And the teacher was a really great piano player, Robin Connell, and she, I think she wrote my mom a note at the end. She's like, I feel bad. I think I pushed her too hard. It's like, well.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  Well, that's how you grow.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  I guess I was just meant to play ballads.

• 15:17Speaker 05

  Exactly. That's how you learn, too.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Exactly. So you're doing chamber shows in New York right now with, with like a string quartet?

• 15:24Speaker 05

  Violin, cello, and then I have a wind player that does saxophone, flute, and clarinet.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 15:28Speaker 05

  And I play French horn and guitar and sing and stuff.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  Oh, rad. Yeah. But that's so different from what you've been doing live, right?

• 15:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. I kind of have like musical ADHD.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  I know.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  The second I get comfortable with something and I'm like, I'm decently good at this, I'm like,

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Let's change it.

• 15:42Speaker 05

  Let's change it.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  I think that's a good way to be.

• 15:44Speaker 05

  You know, I mean, you know, that's because you're like constantly learning new songs, that feeling, that like live wire of it not being comfortable, there's something exciting. I'm like a little bit addictive.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  That's why I was always drawn to jazz because, you know, you could change it up every time and it didn't have to stay so the same.

• 16:00Speaker 05

  Totally. When you sing songs that you've sang for a long time, do you find yourself changing them a lot?

• 16:05Speaker 00

  I do.

• 16:06Speaker 05

  Vocally or?

• 16:06Speaker 00

  I do, but not on purpose.

• 16:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:08Speaker 00

  Like I just, it just kind of morphs into some different thing every time.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I play with a drummer, Brian Blade, who feels very alive, you know, like it feels different every time, even if we've rehearsed something, you know, it feels like there's something new every time. And I definitely feel all that off of that.

• 16:28Speaker 05

  Classical music was so rigid. Like, it's so like, if you play one note flat, everyone's just like, what the fuck is she doing over there?

• 16:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think that's why I was never good at classical music because I couldn't stick to the program.

• 16:39Speaker 05

  It is amazing. Like, it is-

• 16:41Speaker 00

  It's so beautiful.

• 16:41Speaker 05

  It's kind of like a- It's like, it's like, um, like Dolly or something like it can't be what it is unless it's like so technically like perfect.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  There's a reason.

• 16:54Speaker 05

  Exactly, like Stravinsky and all these things like they're epic and wild, but they can't actually be that unless the musicians are playing perfect, which is kind of counterintuitive. The wildness comes from the like, like the strictness of it or something. But anyways, it was very traumatizing to like be in that kind of world where also it's not even just that you have to be perfect. It's that if you're not perfect, people really like judge your character.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Really?

• 17:21Speaker 05

  Yeah. Conservatory was very.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Oh, conservatory.

• 17:24Speaker 05

  Competitive.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Just the word alone gives me a little bit of anxiety. But you really did feel that on a personal level.

• 17:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, um, I think it's like, I don't know, I feel like it's a pressure makes diamonds situation at conservatories where it's like people, I mean, you know, like the, like the natural instinct is to like procrastinate, especially when you're in your twenties, when you're in college and stuff, but so they have to create an environment. Like, think about it, all these kids are coming from being teenagers in their hometowns to like being in college and could easily be, could easily be like getting wasted every weekend and everyone still does all that stuff, but you, it's like kind of the, the trope that you like slack off when you're in college, but it's like the opposite when you're in conservatory. It's like, oh, you might've been like hot shit in like whatever bumfuck Idaho, but now

• 18:15Speaker 05

  you're at Eastern and you're like actually the lowest on the call sheet. So it's like that pressure was really intense, but like I was saying earlier, it made, it made me achieve really highly in indie because the bar is so low in indie rock.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  And when you went back to indie rock, you were like, I got this.

• 18:33Speaker 05

  Totally. I was like, oh, I can do 30% of what I was doing before and it's still 150%.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  And it's still great. Well, and it's cool and you get to write your own songs. That's crazy that you started late. I thought I started late. I started when I was 20, really.

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  Really, like writing.

• 18:49Speaker 05

  But you were improvising, so you were like writing melodies and stuff. Classical musicians, literally, we just learn, we learn sheet music. You don't even learn how to like compose any sort of musical phrase. It's so bizarre.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Do you remember the first song you wrote? Did you have a, just a lightning moment? Or was it, hey, I need to start writing songs, because that, that seems fun.

• 19:09Speaker 05

  I wrote a lot of instrumental pieces first. Like, because I had a little bit of background of like arranging strings and winds for other people's records. Like, I was like, I discovered my like biness, my like bi-rock and classicalness. I was like, oh, I can like, I can kind of participate in the rock and folk world by doing charts, like of string and horn arrangements. And then I like started learning guitar and then I would kind of make these instrumental pieces that were like guitar and like MIDI strings or whatever. And then I would slowly try to add vocals. And then eventually I was playing in another band and I was just around enough songwriting that I was like, I think, I think I can try this now.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:47Speaker 05

  I was like 26 or 27.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. But did you always sing?

• 19:51Speaker 05

  I sang in choir in like elementary school.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  But did you feel like your voice was also like kind of shy? Or were you, was that part easy? Because it sounds so natural.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  I think, well, now I've like, I've been a front person in my project since like 2018 or something, so it's crazy. It's almost like 20 years.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  I know, but it still just sounds like very natural, like, like you've been doing it for, since you were little.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  Well, that's the thing I think about being a songwriter. You just write where it feels natural, too. It's like, it's harder to sing other people's songs because, I mean, if you're a good writer, you write, and I'm still working on this, but if you're a good writer, you write in your own sweet spot.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:30Speaker 05

  So the melody is just like locked in. And I think that's a skill set in itself, which is like, I'm actually, I'm teaching this school of song, like songwriter workshop in April.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 20:40Speaker 05

  And one of my like modules or one of my like lessons is called Starting From The Voice or like Lead With The Voice. Because I think it's really typical to Write chords and then you like have to find where your voice fits within the chords, especially when you're first starting because you're like, oh, I can play E, G, and D on the guitar. Like this is a miracle. Let me just like try to find my vocal melody in there somewhere. But actually, the voice has its own place. Like everyone's vocal chords are like physically so different and we have such different ranges and even notes where our voice just like feels so good. You know, like you have certain notes where you're like, oh, my vibrato just like like slays on this note or whatever. So I'm trying to get better about writing from the voice first and then finding the chords

• 21:25Speaker 05

  to match it instead of like trying to fit my my voice into the chord progression.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Really good tip. I don't even do that.

• 21:32Speaker 05

  Join my class now.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  I'm gonna use that. That's amazing. I never think to do that, but I think when I do, if I find like a cool chord progression I like, my voice goes to the range it feels right in. So if it's sitting weird in a certain range, I'll just write something low. So I'll adjust that way. But that's a really good idea.

• 21:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, it's just I feel like we have moments in our songs where we're like, oh, that part feels so good. And I'm like, oh, if you start with the voice, the whole song can feel like that.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  You literally just write where your voice feels good. So I'm not not guaranteeing anything. I'm just suggesting it as a.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  It's a great tip.

• 22:10Speaker 05

  Writing example.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 05

  What's your writing practice right now?

• 22:14Speaker 00

  I don't have a like a practice. I think I used to think that I needed to find my way. And over the years, I realized my way is, you know, do a quick voice memo if something hits.

• 22:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  And then I feel like musically, I can always hear some kind of chord in my head under it. And if it's confusing, I'll do like a bass note and then I'll sing the melody so that I know what I'm doing, you know?

• 22:39Speaker 05

  Voice memo on the iPhone has a new thing now where you can layer. You can only do two layers, but it's kind of a game changer.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 22:46Speaker 05

  Because then you can like sing a melody and then you can layer on top of it. You can be like, dum, so whatever.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  So you can you can kind of fill out your chord a little bit. Oh, that's a good tip. Usually I feel like I can hear it enough or I'll be like dum. You know, I'll do like weird stuff like that. And then eventually if I'm recording or write, trying to work on stuff. I don't know about you, but I find that on the airplane, I go through all my voice memos with like noise cancelling headphones.

• 23:14Speaker 05

  I heart them. I heart the ones that are worth coming back to.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I'll like make a folder or I'll write some more on the song just on the plane. I feel like it's like the only time where nobody's bothering me.

• 23:24Speaker 05

  Totally. And also it's like the context is so removed that even though you wrote it, it almost feels like someone else did. And it's hard to get that kind of perspective with your own work.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 05

  It's like, that's why collaborating is so amazing because it's like someone else's brain is processing what you do. It's really hard to get outside of your own brain. But there's something about when you're on a plane, it's like, I think scientifically proven that you're like not yourself.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  Really?

• 23:46Speaker 05

  That's why everyone's always crying on the plane.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Oh, I thought it was the lack of oxygen. I guess that's why.

• 23:50Speaker 05

  Maybe it's like a combination of that or something.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  Definitely cried on planes.

• 23:53Speaker 05

  Definitely.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  But yeah, I think that or taking a long walk without your, um, without headphones and with, you know, airplane mode, but you can listen to stuff or, or write in your head. I think that's a nice way to do it.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  Definitely. I've written on walks before.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:10Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 24:11Speaker 06

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• 26:17Speaker 00

  Do you have like a practice where you write? Or do you just sort of let it come like that?

• 26:22Speaker 05

  I definitely do. I feel like I'm very, um, I feel like some people, their album is like their magnum opus. Like it's like their baby. The album itself is like their, everything they do is like for the album. But for me, I feel like I'm so much more process oriented. I think probably because I grew up playing French horn and like playing in a symphony. So I wasn't writing as much. The thing I did was playing and like was being in the middle of the sound. So I get really obsessed with like a sound world, whether it's like pop or metal or classical. And then I just get really obsessed with like playing in that or like figuring out chord progressions or learning the vernacular of a certain genre. And then the album is just kind of like a product of, of like, almost like a dissertation of like what I kind of learned while I was in that era of doing that.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  And like the melody and lyrics just sort of get woven in to...

• 27:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's almost like I like if I got really into pop before I made my last record, I was just like, why is pop so good? Like, what is it about? Like, you know, like, it can be Pulp or it can be Rihanna, but like, they're both pop, like David Bowie. There's so many different genres, but a pop song is a pop song. And like, what makes a pop song a pop song? For example, I had never written a song where the verse and the chorus are over the same chords. I was like, what? You can write a verse and a chorus over the same chords? And it's like, yeah, bitch, that's pop music. It's like, oh, this is familiar, because you just heard it five seconds ago.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  But the melody, yeah, and then you raise the melody and you do like a big shout.

• 27:47Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  You got yourself a pop song.

• 27:50Speaker 05

  I was like, OK, I'm interested in this pop world. And then like when I started to like, understand the vernacular of it, it's like, oh, the chorus goes like up in range. So it feels like there's some lift or whatever, like the hi hats pick up here or something. Then when I like, become comfortable in that language, then I can kind of improvise, like, write a little bit more freely, once I've like, kind of learned enough, learned enough vocabulary or something.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, you learn it and then you just kind of, it just kind of becomes part of you.

• 28:15Speaker 05

  Exactly. And kind of like what we were talking about before, you think that you're doing something and it always becomes something else. So, you know, you're like, oh, I'm, I've heard this from so many friends, like, I thought I was writing a pop song, and then it just sounds like art rock, you know? So we're all just doing our best, figuring it out.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  That's a good way to do it, just chase little things.

• 28:33Speaker 05

  Is there, is there like a, a genre or a sound world that you're really obsessed with right now?

• 28:40Speaker 00

  Hmm, that's a good question. Not really.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Well, I loved working with Leon Michaels, because I like the sounds he gets.

• 28:50Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  But it's the same, it's like still piano, drums and bass as the ba, the basic stuff. It's just sonically so different.

• 28:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  But I was listening to your stuff, and I was like, this is crazy. It's like, the sonic landscape is so vast, and you're in a metal. I mean, like, where does that even come from?

• 29:11Speaker 05

  I don't know, most unique.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Did you grow up?

• 29:12Speaker 05

  Most unique in eighth grade.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Most unique eighth grader. Did you listen to metal growing up?

• 29:16Speaker 05

  I mean, I listened to like System of a Down when I was in middle school because it was on the radio. Wasn't that a weird time in like the aughts when like?

• 29:23Speaker 00

  I don't know, I'm much older than you.

• 29:25Speaker 05

  But do you remember like, wake up, na na na na na, wake up, like?

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do remember that.

• 29:29Speaker 05

  Like that was on the radio.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 05

  That was like on Kiss FM or something.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  I don't think I listened to the radio then because I lived in New York and I didn't have a car. No, well, just because, you know, you listened to it in the car.

• 29:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  So.

• 29:39Speaker 05

  But I mean, I listened to a lot of rock growing up, but um, but I think when I was making Squeeze, the album before, I was really into like nostalgic nu metal. Because that was the music of like my middle school, like Evanescence.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  Oh, got you. Okay.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  You know, System of a Down and stuff like that. But then tied into also being into like Sheryl Crow and like Christine McVie.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:00Speaker 05

  Like my influences are always all over the place. I don't know. We don't know why we do what we do.

• 30:04Speaker 00

  No, I know, we don't.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  It's kind of embarrassing to overthink it.

• 30:08Speaker 00

  I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. Um, I like, I like, but what I like is that, you know, I feel all those influences in your music, but then when you break down, these songs are just good songs. And I love that, that you're doing them with the chamber orchestra and, you know, because you know why? Because they're just good songs.

• 30:28Speaker 05

  Thank you. I appreciate that.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  And like, you can't do that with all songs.

• 30:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  You know?

• 30:34Speaker 05

  It's true, but you know.

• 30:35Speaker 00

  They're melodic and just good, heartfelt.

• 30:38Speaker 05

  What's the weirdest arrangement you've ever played your songs with? Have you ever done anything kind of?

• 30:43Speaker 00

  No, I haven't. I'm actually a little bit allergic to like orchestral, orchestral things.

• 30:49Speaker 05

  No, I mean, I need to see the Norah Jones metal album.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  I mean, I would do a metal album over an orchestra album, probably because I, I, I don't know why. I think strings are like the same timbre as my voice and it gets, it can tend to lean schmaltzy.

• 31:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, totally.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  When I've been trying like so hard not to lean that way. Um, but my voice could so easily go there, you know?

• 31:12Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  I should just lean in and do something.

• 31:16Speaker 05

  The new Rosalia album. I feel like she's tied in classical music in like a really cool way, but it's like classical music that goes into techno.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 31:24Speaker 05

  It's interesting.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  That is interesting.

• 31:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. I like not knowing and then just seeing where things go.

• 31:32Speaker 05

  We all, I really just think that we, we all, like I was saying earlier, it's like the songs exist and we're just pulling them down. Like, we all have our own path. There's no right or wrong.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 31:43Speaker 05

  Way to do anything, you know?

• 31:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like that.

• 31:45Speaker 05

  Are you writing right now?

• 31:47Speaker 00

  Um, always.

• 31:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. I used to feel confused if I didn't have any songs in like a six month period or like a year. And then I just stopped worrying about it. Something always floats through my head.

• 32:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  But it could be the stupidest thing. It could just be like

• 32:08Speaker 00

  boom, boom, boom. Or like a lyric. And then you write it down and then maybe a year later you find it and you like it.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  You know, it doesn't have to be a full song.

• 32:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, totally.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  That's what I like, just catching little bits and then finishing them.

• 32:24Speaker 05

  It's so weird when it comes. Cause you'll like sit down and be like, I'm gonna write right now. And it's like, nothing, nothing, nothing. You're like at the grocery store and you're like

• 32:34Speaker 05

  And you're like, oh shit, I gotta go to the car. Port disappears.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. I've actually been listening to a lot of piano music recently.

• 32:44Speaker 05

  Like stray horn, like that kinda era or like classical?

• 32:47Speaker 00

  No, like there's, you know, when you're, when your, your algorithm feeds you stuff. And so my husband and I have been listening to this, The Verdant Spring. I don't know. I don't even know anything about him. I just know that I love, he's, it's just like solo piano.

• 33:02Speaker 05

  Is it contemporary?

• 33:03Speaker 00

  It's contemporary and it's, it's got a mute on it. It's like very muted sounding. Yeah, it's sonically funky in a way that is beautiful, but it's not classical, it's not jazz, but it's just really pretty little compositions.

• 33:18Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  Do you ever write just piano compositions?

• 33:22Speaker 00

  I, I feel like I'm maybe getting there because of that kind of influence.

• 33:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  You know, stuff like that.

• 33:29Speaker 05

  Feels good to play.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  It just feels good to play. Yeah. I never play.

• 33:33Speaker 05

  God forbid.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  God forbid.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  I always forget to play.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  When I'm home. Do you play at home a lot?

• 33:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I do. I live, I live in a very like remote place. So I feel like I, I like force myself to, I just, you know, when you like kind of, you do things when you're just like bored or procrastinating? I feel like I'm either bored or procrastinating almost at all times. And so it always kind of siphons to playing music.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 33:59Speaker 05

  You know, if I'm bored, I'll like play music. And if I'm like procrastinating something, like if I have to like clean my house or something, or like pack for something, that's when I'm like, I need to play right now.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 34:09Speaker 05

  Does that ever happen to you?

• 34:10Speaker 00

  No, I, my phone is what I go to when I'm bored and procrastinating.

• 34:15Speaker 05

  You need to, you need like a, you need a jail cell for your phone.

• 34:18Speaker 00

  I hate it so much. I just want to smash it. But you know, all my patient portals and my school, my kid's school crap is on there.

• 34:25Speaker 05

  That's a whole other world.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  It's so annoying.

• 34:27Speaker 05

  If I had kids, I'm sure I wouldn't be procrastinating playing the furniture.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  I think I need like a bat phone just for that stuff. And then, yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 05

  Well, it's nice. I wish I had a grand piano at my disposal at all times. That, that's pretty awesome.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  It's nice. To be honest, I have an upright piano with a little mute on it upstairs that I play. I love.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  That's nice.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  But I do love coming down here and playing this.

• 34:51Speaker 05

  Do you make music with your kids?

• 34:53Speaker 00

  We try.

• 34:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  They're very hesitant.

• 34:57Speaker 05

  My parents like, or not my parents, my dad forced us to play music.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  So was your dad a music teacher?

• 35:02Speaker 05

  No, my dad was a, just like a, I, I think he taught like resource, like special ed and US history. But he was just like a public school teacher.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  But he was a musician?

• 35:12Speaker 05

  He like, it's a whole long story. My parents, it's, I could go, I could go there forever. But he grew up like, he was like in a Beatles cover band, like in Gardena in the sixties. You know, like playing guitar. He was like at Altamont. Like he was like a rock kid.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  Like a real musician.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, but if you hear, hear him sing now, it's like, the key that you're in is actually baffling. Like I never, I've never seen someone so confidently sing a tritone off from what the like home note is. But, so he like, you know, played bluegrass and, and played guitar and stuff growing up. And then my mom sang. Like in church choir and she grew up singing and stuff like that. So neither of them are professional musicians, but they both are like musical.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 35:53Speaker 05

  My dad used to make us like sit around the, like, we all took piano lessons because we're Korean kids all take piano lessons. But my dad is white and he's from Gardena and he grew up like listening to rock music and like made me Steely Dan mixtapes and stuff like that. But he would make us like sit around the piano and sing like Take Me Out To The Ballgame. It's just something.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  Or whatever.

• 36:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was very like the American dream, the family sits around and like sing songs together.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  And did you hate it at first?

• 36:20Speaker 05

  Duh.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Always, yeah.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  Anything your parents like.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  I know.

• 36:23Speaker 05

  This is so lame.

• 36:25Speaker 00

  I, it's interesting how much they hate what you want them to do.

• 36:28Speaker 05

  Definitely.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  I mean, it's, it's just predictable, really.

• 36:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  I should just tell them to do, I know, that's what I was just thinking.

• 36:36Speaker 05

  Kids are like a weird experiment. I, I have so much respect for parents because I'm just like, I can, like, you can barely trick your own self to do things that are good, let alone tricking someone who's like prefrontal cortex is not formed yet. How do you do that?

• 36:49Speaker 00

  It's so funny, like, I'm older now and I feel like I've realized things about myself in the last five years even that I'm like, whoa, if I didn't know this when I was in my twenties or my teens.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  You like can't.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  No, and I keep trying to tell them and they're like, whatever.

• 37:05Speaker 05

  We are all cliches.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  But this is such important information.

• 37:08Speaker 05

  When we're young, we think our parents are like so stupid and when we get older, we're like, oh, I'm them.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  I know, I know, it's crazy. All right, let's try this song. I love this song.

• 37:18Speaker 05

  Okay, sweet.

• 37:32Speaker 00

  Take me back to the endless highway where we can talk all night.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  Alone till the light of day These days I'm begging you to tell me what's on your mind

• 38:00Speaker 00

  All I need is to know what you want from me I can't go on just living in love with a memory

• 38:14Speaker 00

  All I need is yours If you catch me as I go If you only go backwards, then we'll never know

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Take me back to the open road where The wind can blow in my hair And the sun can kiss my face, I need to feel alive All good things must come to an end Don't cry, just come back to bed Let me feel you one last time before we say goodnight

• 39:02Speaker 00

  It doesn't take away from what we shared Then I need to go and be alone out there I tried to do what I thought was right Now I need to be where the air is While While I'm alone Love Take me back to the open road where The wind can blow in my hair And the sun can kiss my face, I need to feel alive

• 39:46Speaker 00

  All good things must come to an end Don't cry

• 39:50Speaker 05

  Just come back to bed. Let me feel you one last time before we say goodnight.

• 40:28Speaker 05

  Take me back to the open road where the wind can blow in my hair. And the sun can kiss my face. I need to feel alive. All good things must come to an end. Don't cry, just come back to bed. Let me feel you one last time before we say goodnight. Do you remember when we first met? No past, no pain or regret. Let's stay up all night long like we did when we were high.

• 41:12Speaker 05

  I will never forget our love. Even if our time might be up. Let's go for one more drive and even if we die.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  That's alright, alright.

• 41:43Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  That's so frickin' fun to play.

• 41:45Speaker 05

  I know.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 05

  We'll have to do it live together someday.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  I would totally do that. That would be so fun.

• 41:51Speaker 05

  That would be amazing.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 41:52Speaker 05

  We'll find some time.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  That song's a real journey.

• 41:54Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 41:55Speaker 00

  It's like a journey song.

• 41:57Speaker 05

  It is.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  I was on my own little journey.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  I know, me too. I kinda was.

• 42:01Speaker 00

  Also, um-

• 42:01Speaker 05

  I love the piano version.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  I do too. It's so fun to play like that. Thanks for letting me play it.

• 42:06Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  And also, the lyrics are so just sweet.

• 42:10Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  They're just, you know-

• 42:13Speaker 05

  They're very relatable, you know?

• 42:14Speaker 00

  So relatable.

• 42:15Speaker 05

  Turns out, being a human, very relatable.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  It really is, right?

• 42:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the best. And the French horn was awesome.

• 42:22Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  So, so you, you have lipstick on?

• 42:24Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  How does that work?

• 42:26Speaker 05

  Don't tell my band teacher. I don't think it really...

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Is that allowed?

• 42:29Speaker 05

  No, but also you can do whatever the fuck you want.

• 42:32Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 42:33Speaker 05

  When you're an indie rocker. That's why I'm here.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:36Speaker 05

  Got a lot more dents than I've ever had. I, I actually, it's so funny because I grew up playing French horn, but I never brought it on the road until this album cycle because I was like, what, what's the point of having like a pristine, nice French horn sitting at home? I'd rather like bring it on the road and get some dents and...

• 42:50Speaker 00

  So you just started bringing it out live?

• 42:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I just started bringing it out live, but it's like very intentionally because of the lipstick choreography at the very end of the set. And I tour with like my metal, my metal drummer, Diego. This is like when he gets his big, like kind of, he does, he does this one Judas Priest solo. He's like a couple of different, like super double kick pedal drum solos. And I like run off stage and he plays his solo and the crowd gets all like wilded up. And then I wipe my lipstick off and then I come out and kind of like mosh back to the stage and then like pick up the French horn and then I'm like...

• 43:22Speaker 00

  That's so fun.

• 43:23Speaker 05

  Ethic moment.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  It's like a real moment.

• 43:25Speaker 05

  Exactly. You know, put on a show.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  I think lipstick choreography.

• 43:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  Something.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Something I've never heard in my life.

• 43:32Speaker 05

  My friend, have you ever heard of the artist Dora Jar?

• 43:35Speaker 00

  No.

• 43:35Speaker 05

  She's so good. She's amazing. She opened for Greasy Abrams kind of recently and she's just an incredible, like witchy musician. But she had like some shtick where she came onto the stage and like did her makeup like in a mirror.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  Oh, onstage?

• 43:48Speaker 05

  Onstage, like as part of it. You know, I, I love like a, a performance arty kind of thing. My friend Mitski does a lot of different types of performance. She used to tour with a...

• 43:58Speaker 00

  Who does?

• 43:58Speaker 05

  Do you know Mitski?

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Oh, yes. Yes, she's very artsy.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  She's a tour with like a chair and a table. Like that was her rider. It was like, I need a chair and a table. And she had like all this choreography that was just planned with like a chair and a table.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  I like that.

• 44:09Speaker 05

  A lot of show, you know?

• 44:10Speaker 00

  I've always wanted to be like that.

• 44:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  But I feel like if I started doing that now, maybe it's weird. I don't know.

• 44:16Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, it would be amazing.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Am I allowed to start throwing on a wig and doing weird choreography onstage at this point? I don't know.

• 44:22Speaker 05

  Have you ever had a side project?

• 44:24Speaker 00

  Yes, I've had many side bands. Actually, I had...

• 44:26Speaker 05

  What's the craziest side project?

• 44:28Speaker 00

  I had a band called El Madmo in probably like around the time my second record came out on the road. It was with my, my touring drummer, Andy Borger, and... Woman who sang in my band, Daru Oda. And the three of us would just play in the dressing room, doing these like half stadium tours. And we were just, and I was learning guitar. And so we would write these songs.

• 44:50Speaker 05

  Did you guys ever like tour though?

• 44:51Speaker 00

  We didn't tour it. We did a bunch of gigs in New York City, though.

• 44:53Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  But we would wear, I would wear a wig and like Blade Runner makeup and tights. And it was super fun.

• 45:01Speaker 05

  You have to have something that like, I feel like it like releases the pressure from like being a solo artist and like.

• 45:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I've always had a lot of different side projects.

• 45:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  But this is the one I got to play dress up in.

• 45:11Speaker 05

  That's fun.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 05

  Yeah. Do you, do you not like, you haven't had like a crazy Nora era for your solo album? Where you like went like totally in a different wild direction?

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Not really. I think, I think this last album is the most coordinated I've gotten color wise.

• 45:28Speaker 05

  What's the, paint the landscape for me?

• 45:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like kind of watermelon colors and you know, teals, bright colors. I've always been a black, all black girl.

• 45:36Speaker 05

  Do you have fun with the styling?

• 45:38Speaker 00

  I do. I mean, I love a comfortable outfit. That's the only problem.

• 45:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can't suffer for, for something in that way.

• 45:47Speaker 05

  See, I feel like I love to suffer. This is probably like.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  You like to suffer?

• 45:50Speaker 05

  This is my like classical thing where I'm like, okay, I have to be like wearing a corset and like crazy heels and running around.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 45:56Speaker 05

  Moshing, put lipstick on, take lipstick off, like it's so chaotic.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  But that's really fun.

• 46:02Speaker 05

  I don't know if the quality is high, but the quality of my life is high.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, but the music is, quality is high. So like.

• 46:08Speaker 05

  It's, again, I'm like, I'm so method. I'm, I'm so, I really am. So like, it's all about the, the pros. Like I always say, like music as a verb is much more interesting to me, like music-ing.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  Music-ing.

• 46:21Speaker 05

  Some people are very obsessed with like music as this like precious like little thing. And I'm like, no, music is just something that you do.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  That's just the vehicle for me running around in a corset.

• 46:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. It's just a soundtrack for my mania.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's, that's fun. I think that's a nice way to think of it.

• 46:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. Do you have, do you have other activities you do that aren't music?

• 46:41Speaker 00

  I take a painting class and I'm obsessed with.

• 46:43Speaker 05

  Ooh, painting.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  What about you?

• 46:45Speaker 05

  Uh, I like tennis. I like sports.

• 46:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're active.

• 46:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I like being active. I like, I like, um, I'm really into mushrooms. I moved to like Marin County in Northern California because I got really obsessed with mushrooms, like foraging, but also just like, you know, being able to identify different species. So.

• 47:02Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 47:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's kind of a not very not musical thing to be obsessed with. But yeah, I'm really into movies right now, though.

• 47:10Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 47:10Speaker 05

  That's my current obsession.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Do you ever act? Have you ever acted?

• 47:13Speaker 05

  I've acted in like music videos and stuff like that, but not really. I'm interested.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  I mean, you're very, it seems like you are someone who would come up with all the music video concepts and.

• 47:23Speaker 05

  I've done a lot. I've directed and like physically edited a lot of my videos. But this album cycle, I was really adamant about working with, um, with other directors and kind of being more of like a, this album cycle was a lot more collaborative, which, you know, it's like there's blessings and curses to being collaborative. You have to like let go a lot more, but then also what you can achieve is just like so much greater with like multiple.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  Or just like a different flavor, you know?

• 47:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 06

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• 48:19Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Hey what's up? This is Kelvin Washington from The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it starts with a great deal on off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra. Two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 49:51Speaker 05

  Speaking of movies though, I have to say I am like the biggest fan of My Blueberry Nights.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  What?

• 49:55Speaker 05

  I'm obsessed with that movie.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  That's so funny.

• 49:58Speaker 05

  Can I ask you questions about it?

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Ask me anything you want.

• 50:00Speaker 05

  Okay, what was it like working on that movie with Wong Kar Wai?

• 50:04Speaker 00

  Well, let me see. What's the short answer? Well, it was amazing.

• 50:08Speaker 05

  Cause I read that, I don't know if this is accurate, but I read that he told you like not to take acting lessons.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  And there was no real script.

• 50:14Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh.

• 50:15Speaker 00

  It was a little jazz.

• 50:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Which is very rare for film because there's so many different moving parts involved and there's so many people. It was a huge production. It wasn't nothing.

• 50:26Speaker 05

  Were you like watching dailies and like playback?

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Oh no, no, I wasn't involved with that.

• 50:30Speaker 05

  So you were like acting verb, like you were in it?

• 50:32Speaker 00

  I was just in it. And I feel like he wanted me to be just a piece, you know? Like the centerpiece to all these moving parts, maybe? Cause there were so many great actors in it and I was more reacting to them. And I don't know, it was amazing. I mean, it was like one of the most incredible things I've ever done.

• 50:54Speaker 05

  It's so beautiful. It's like-

• 50:56Speaker 00

  I knew it would be beautiful because everything he does is so beautiful.

• 50:59Speaker 05

  But it's also like kind of Lynchian. Like the scenes are really like slow and kind of weird and like almost overacted. Like the Rachel Weisz scenes are like so-

• 51:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a little dramatic.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  It kind of, I was also like really high when I watched it, but it kind of reminds me of like Inland Empire, the David Lynch film. Like there's something about it where it's just like kind of uncomfortable.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 05

  But you're like, that's the whole thing. It's like your character's like working through the discomfort.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  Very much.

• 51:26Speaker 05

  And like constantly putting yourself in these like new situations and like kind of learning. I don't know. It's such, it's so good. I'm obsessed.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  I need to re-watch it. I would be really curious to watch it again.

• 51:36Speaker 05

  Also, the theme song-

• 51:38Speaker 00

  Cause I haven't seen it since it came out.

• 51:38Speaker 05

  The theme song from Mood for Love is played by Ry Cooter in it.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 51:43Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.

• 51:46Speaker 05

  The score is amazing, too. Like, Ry Cooter plays on it.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  I kind of forgot about that score.

• 51:51Speaker 05

  It's, I mean, like, everything he does is, like, very, it's artsy, you know?

• 51:56Speaker 00

  Actually, side note, I think that, um, I forgot that Ry Cooter did the score.

• 52:02Speaker 05

  And it starts and ends with your song, too.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I wrote a song for it, but, um, he also let me, he asked me to make him, like, a, I mean, this is way back then, so it wasn't a playlist, it was like burn a CD for me. But, um, he asked me to, like, send him some songs for the mood. And he ended up using a lot of them in the soundtrack. This Cassandra Wilson version of something. I can't remember which one, but it's from this album I love called New Moon Daughter. And, um, two Cat Power songs.

• 52:30Speaker 05

  And then Sean's in it.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, Sean's in it. So, so I sent him these two Cat Power songs because I was obsessed with The Greatest.

• 52:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  And then he loved them and he played them through all these scenes. So, we were, we were sort of, you know, acting or, or like some of the long scenes where we were just sitting there and not saying any lines, he was playing the Cat Power songs. And so they were a big part of the shoot. And then he got her to be in the movie.

• 52:54Speaker 05

  So cool.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  So, I was really excited.

• 52:55Speaker 05

  You should honestly watch it, like.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I should watch it again.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  It's so good.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  I'd be curious to watch it again.

• 53:00Speaker 05

  I mean, like, so many icons in it.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  I know, it was great.

• 53:03Speaker 05

  And also, like, I just feel, like, I got kind of obsessed with it and I was, like, listening, I was, like, reading all these interviews with Wong Kar Wai, like, just talking about the process because he had just finished, I forget what film, but he was, like, had just finished this film that took, like, five years.

• 53:18Speaker 00

  I think In the Mood for Love was before that.

• 53:20Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  No, 2046.

• 53:21Speaker 05

  2046.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  That's the one.

• 53:22Speaker 05

  And it took, like, five years to make it. And then this was, like, a short, he kind of, like, had, like, a short time. And there's something, to me, like, really interesting. Again, like, I feel like this, from what it seems, like, the movie, it was much more about the physicality of, like, making the movie and the story unfolding as opposed to it being this, like, perfect script, this, like, perfect object. Like, the movie is a perfect object. It was like the manifestation of, like, the physicality of him wanting to come to America and, like, drive across the country and, like, find all these random places.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:53Speaker 05

  I love art like that, like art that just exists out of like an actual human experience.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 05

  As opposed to like-

• 53:59Speaker 00

  Or a desire to experience America in that like sort of romantic-

• 54:03Speaker 05

  It kind of reminds me of like-

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Route 66 kind of vibe.

• 54:06Speaker 05

  You know, totally.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:07Speaker 05

  Like, you know those like Asian T-shirts that are have English, but it's like wrong?

• 54:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 05

  It kind of reminds me of that.

• 54:13Speaker 00

  That makes a lot of sense.

• 54:14Speaker 05

  Where it's like, it's a weird translation of something, but it's so like perfect.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  It is, it is, that makes a lot of sense because he hadn't worked in America yet. And I think all the different rules and stuff, it was definitely a challenge, I think, for him. Cause he was used to working crazy hours.

• 54:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 00

  But we had the union rules.

• 54:37Speaker 05

  Right.

• 54:37Speaker 00

  You know, stuff that he didn't have to deal with in China when he was working. And so it was very interesting.

• 54:45Speaker 05

  Did you act in anything after that?

• 54:46Speaker 00

  I didn't. I mean, I've been-

• 54:47Speaker 05

  Really?

• 54:47Speaker 00

  I've, no, I've been in a couple of small things, like cameos and stuff. I did act in one small movie, but it was just a tiny scene, so nothing like that.

• 54:56Speaker 05

  Would you act again?

• 55:00Speaker 00

  If it was something interesting, yeah. I think I would. I think I stopped getting asked and also-

• 55:06Speaker 05

  Your kids have not seen this movie?

• 55:08Speaker 00

  No, but they could watch this now.

• 55:09Speaker 05

  You need, oh my god, you're so beautiful.

• 55:11Speaker 00

  But acting is so crazy. It's a crazy job. I'm not used to those hours.

• 55:16Speaker 05

  Also, everyone, you know how everyone's a different type of musician? It seems like everyone is a different type of actor too. Like some people are very like-

• 55:23Speaker 00

  There's the method actors and then there's the sort of, you know, relaxed actors.

• 55:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I just think that way people make movies is really different. Like, like I said, I get obsessed with things. I'm kind of like obsessed with movies right now. And I've been listening to all these like director interviews. Like, there's like this one, P T Anderson is being interviewed by like Steven Spielberg.

• 55:42Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 55:43Speaker 05

  And like, some people are really obsessed with filming it chronologically so that there's this kind of like ability to understand the pacing of the story. Or like, this scene's kind of redundant, we already did it.

• 55:53Speaker 00

  But that can be hard on the budget-

• 55:55Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  If you're doing it in different places.

• 55:58Speaker 05

  Totally. And some people are really adamant about film. And so that kind of makes it harder to like process daily. Please right away and everyone just has really different processes. And it's so interesting because I know so like, I mean, obviously I don't know everything about music, but it's like, I've toured, I've been in studios, I've, I've just like kind of, I've been in pop writing rooms, I've been in classical, I've just like kind of understand how the

• 56:19Speaker 00

  You want to learn a different language.

• 56:20Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Have you ever come up with an idea for something like a film or a short or something?

• 56:26Speaker 05

  I mean, I feel like every time I have to make a music video, I have like a $3 million idea.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  That you can't make.

• 56:32Speaker 05

  And you're like, oh, I have to make the like extremely 99 cent score version of this. So if I had a budget, I could, I feel like it would be fun to make a film.

• 56:40Speaker 00

  Maybe you should direct.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  Could be cool.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Maybe you should write something and direct.

• 56:43Speaker 05

  All right. Maybe this, maybe this is the sign from the universe.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  I think it's a crazy world and just the fact that it's, it has all the creative elements that music has, I think.

• 56:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  But then it's so hard to do something.

• 56:58Speaker 05

  I know. Like you have to get like so many permits.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  So many people and money and it's like requires so much more.

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  I'm really, I feel really lucky that I can play music.

• 57:08Speaker 05

  The stakes are so high.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Because it's so much easier, you know?

• 57:10Speaker 05

  I know. It's so true.

• 57:11Speaker 00

  It just feels like such a hard world in that way.

• 57:14Speaker 05

  Totally. And it feels even hard, it feels ambitious even with music when you're like, I just have to get like a drummer, bass player, guitarist, engineer.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's so easy compared, compared to all that.

• 57:24Speaker 05

  I know. But, you know, it's, it's different. It's just a completely different.

• 57:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:29Speaker 05

  Universe, but.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  I know. It's crazy.

• 57:31Speaker 07

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• 58:00Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment

• 58:44Speaker 00

  that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Hey, what's up? This is Kelvin Washington from The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it starts with a great deal on off-road-ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. ShopToyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  I just wanted to ask you one last thing about growing up. Like, did you go to church?

• 59:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, I grew up... Have you ever heard of the Moonies before? The Unification Church?

• 59:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, my parents were in that church.

• 59:43Speaker 00

  What?

• 59:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, they were arranged married by the leader.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  I just found your movie idea.

• 59:48Speaker 05

  Really?

• 59:49Speaker 00

  I mean, that's...

• 59:50Speaker 05

  Oh, like, yeah, exactly.

• 59:51Speaker 00

  They always say, "Write what you know."

• 59:52Speaker 05

  My parents, both of their lives are really interesting. They were, I mean, they were married in Madison Square Garden with 4,000 people in bright and groomed outfits.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:00:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Holy crap.

• 1:00:02Speaker 05

  They didn't even speak the same language when they were married.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  I did not know all this.

• 1:00:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's pretty extreme. That's where I come from. That's why I'm so insane.

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  That is your movie.

• 1:00:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Speaker 00

  You're gonna make that movie.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  There's a lot there. My dad is like a white hippie that's like hitchhiking across Europe. And my mom is like this, like... Well, her family is Zanitzu, so they're Koreans that were born and raised in Japan when Japan occupied Korea.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  Gotcha.

• 1:00:24Speaker 05

  But then her dad was kind of a mobster. And he owned these pachinko parlors, which were like... Gambling parlors and then he kind of like rose the social ranks. There's a lot of lore there.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Okay, you gotta write all that down.

• 1:00:37Speaker 05

  Right, I should be interviewing my family members while they're like still lucid.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and the fun thing is you could make that movie and then you could do all the music to it.

• 1:00:45Speaker 05

  That's true. That's what I really want to do. I want to start doing more music in movies. I've done, I've done a little bit and I've definitely scored like, I did score a feature film like a long time ago. And I've done like theme songs for podcasts and stuff like that, but I want to do more of that. You know, I'm kind of sick of being perceived. I'm like, I don't need to be a front person.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Really? You don't feel drawn to that?

• 1:01:09Speaker 05

  It's just the most like efficient way to like have a career and like, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, you want to move it forward. It's hard to do that from behind.

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  Exactly. Like, like working in the film industry, I can't imagine

• 1:01:22Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:22Speaker 05

  Getting anything done feels so hard, whereas for me, I'm like, I'm just gonna write the demo myself and I'll just like hire, you know, it's just easier to get shit done.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  You're interesting because you don't feel that need to be a front person, but you're also kind of eccentric. But you're not.

• 1:01:38Speaker 05

  I only do it because I'm good at it. In the same way that like an accountant is good at math. I'm like, I'm good at it.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  That's very interesting, yeah.

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  I like to sleep at weird hours, so it seems like a good job for me.

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  That's kind of why I wanted to be a jazz musician when I was younger.

• 1:01:53Speaker 05

  Because you were a night owl?

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I didn't want to wake up early. Perfect.

• 1:01:57Speaker 05

  Good career.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, classical music is way more early, early hours. So I think indie rock and jazz is good for us.

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  It's good for us, yeah. Awesome. Well, this has been so fun.

• 1:02:10Speaker 05

  I know.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  Thank you for joining me.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  You, I like to do a cover at the end and you picked such a cool cover for us to do from your friend Claire, Claro.

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, because Claro's on the, in Love with the Memory on the records. I thought it'd be cute, a little flirty nod.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Flirty nod. And also Leon Michaels produced this album, which he produced my last few albums, so. Exactly. I felt like there was enough lines of lineage there. And I told Leon that I was gonna do the mouth trumpet solo on my French horn. So never be— Juna's probably been covered 10 million times. Really? But the French horn on it, I don't know about that. Yeah, no. And I'm gonna mouth the harmony on it. Hell, yeah. Heck, yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  Come to me slowly.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  It's when you talk close enough, then I feel it on my skin. I breathe it in.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  Most of these days I don't get too intimate. Why should I let you leave?

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  But I think again.

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  But I don't even try. I don't have to think. With you, there's no pretending. You know me. Know me.

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  I just might know you too. Know me.

• 1:04:25Speaker 00

  Come to me, ready.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  You make me wanna go dancing. You make me... Try on feminine. You make me wanna go buy a new dress. You make me wanna slip off a new dress. I don't even try. I don't have to think. With you, there's no pretending. You know me. You know me.

• 1:05:13Speaker 00

  And I just might know you too.

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  Come to me slowly.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Cute. Yay, we did it.

• 1:06:30Speaker 07

  We did it.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  Aw, that was great.

• 1:06:35Speaker 07

  That was beautiful.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  That was so fun.

• 1:06:37Speaker 07

  She's so cool.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  She's great.

• 1:06:38Speaker 07

  She's rad.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  She rolls. That was awesome. All right, let's hang more Sasami. That was rad. Thanks so much for coming. If you want to know the songs we did in this episode, the first song was Call Me Home from her album Squeeze that came out in 2022. The second song was In Love With A Memory from Blood On The Silver Screen featuring Claro. The third song was called Junna from Claro's album called Charm, which came out in 2024, which Leon Michaels produced, who I also work with. Special thanks to Sasami for joining us today, and we'll be back next week with Amy Grant. Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry, audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler, artwork by Eliza Fry, photography by Sherwin-Lainez, produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda, executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Muntog, marketing lead Allison Cantor-Graeber.

• 1:07:50Speaker 04

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