Bonnie 'Prince’ Billy (Part 1)

Singer-songwriter Bonnie ‘Prince' Billy, also known as Will Oldham, joins Norah to talk about his decades-long career, covering everything from how he keeps his live shows spontaneous to how different generations approach songwriting.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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  On Veterans Day, Ford will host a military tribute race with six teams competing to honor each branch of the armed forces at Daytona International Speedway. Plus, a star-studded concert featuring Zac Brown Band, Warren Ziders, Russell Dickerson, and more, all in support of service members and their families. Tune in live to watch the proud-to-honor Veterans Day classic, November 11th, at 8:00 PM Eastern on USA Network and Fandango.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit the Norah Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Bonnie Prince Billy, part one.

• 1:48Speaker 04

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:54Speaker 04

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 2:00Speaker 00

  Hi, welcome to the show.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  Welcome to the show.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  Welcome to the show.

• 2:05Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Our guest today is an artist who's been making records for over 30 years, Will Oldham, aka Bonnie Prince Billy. You may know him from music he put out when he first came up in the 90s with projects including Palace Brothers and Palace Music. And he's really built a prolific career with a huge body of work, a really devoted following, and he's collaborated with artists including Johnny Cash.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  That's a fun story, which he tells in the end.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  Amazing story.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Really amazing story.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  And he released a new album earlier this year in March called We Are Together Again. And in September, he released his latest live album, Ghosts of American Psychonauts.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Psychonauts.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  Which is an eight-track collection, recorded over Valentine's Day weekend of last year, 2025, at the Pico Union Project in LA. And it features Will Oldham and his ensemble reimagining songs from across the Bonnie Prince Billy catalog.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  It was a really fun hang.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's cool. He's deep.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  I learned a lot, and I feel like I want, I want more. I want to know more.

• 3:16Speaker 00

  And, God, he's fun to play music with, and his singing and his songwriting, it's just really beautiful. This is part one. We're going to split this one into a two-parter because it's pretty meaty and delicious.

• 3:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, so make sure you get both bits.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  Stay tuned, we have some great music coming up.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Enjoy the show. Well, thanks for coming. I know you're jet lagged from...

• 3:35Speaker 05

  Or something, yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're coming back from...

• 3:37Speaker 05

  It's the early part of the day, so the jet lag won't kick in until...

• 3:40Speaker 00

  It's 2:00, yeah. Sometimes we start these really early, like at 11:00, and I'm on a kid's schedule, so for me it's good, but for most musicians, they're like, what are we doing here? It's so early.

• 3:51Speaker 05

  Have you got a bunch of kids around here?

• 3:52Speaker 00

  I've got two kids.

• 3:53Speaker 05

  How old are they?

• 3:54Speaker 00

  They're 10 and 12.

• 3:55Speaker 05

  Sweet. We've got a seven, almost eight-year-old.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah? That's sweet. That's a sweet...

• 4:00Speaker 05

  So we're on that schedule.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  That's like the sweet spot, I feel like. That's a nice age.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Well, that's where we are now. I hope you're not saying that...

• 4:07Speaker 00

  It gets worse. No, I'm in a sweet spot, too. I think they're all sweet spots, they're just different.

• 4:13Speaker 05

  I don't think I could do two, though. I think we're a good three musketeer group.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, do they travel with you?

• 4:20Speaker 05

  Sometimes, yeah. And I think she will more. Like, she has really good rhythm, so I'm expecting that she will eventually be able to percuss.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  And get paid for it.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  That's perfect. That's like the dream, I think.

• 4:34Speaker 05

  That's the dream.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  That's the dream. Usually, they go against your dream, but we'll see. I hope it works out for you.

• 4:41Speaker 05

  We're trying to sort of nonchalantly, you know, she's inescapably going to be...

• 4:49Speaker 05

  She's going to be some kind of artistic human, just because that's what mom and dad are.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  That's who she is.

• 4:56Speaker 05

  And we do it all the time, and that's who she spends time with, and that's what she knows is reality, and I think that'll be good for her, to have seen so many different aspects of what an artist's life, you know? Because I think most people grow up having a vision of an artist's life, and then they think, I want to do this, but they have no idea how complicated it is and challenging it is. And when they're confronted with that, they feel sometimes, I think, a massive amount of discouragement, knowing like, I'm as great as anybody I've ever seen, whatever, write a book or do a dance, or, and I can't figure out how to do this for a living. And I think she's...

• 5:39Speaker 05

  I saw things from a kid, from childhood, and she is seeing things from childhood, so she can, you know, she won't be able to escape it.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 05

  Because, you know, it's all she's breathed.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  It's also probably already in her from birth. You know what I mean? Yeah. What did you see as a kid?

• 5:57Speaker 05

  I saw... I just got in, I got involved with theater when I was really little, and we had a really, like, you know, world-class theater in Louisville that I would go to see different kinds of plays, and there was a new play festival every year that people from all over the world would come to. So I was seeing them working things out and experimenting. And then when I wasn't doing that, I was spending, like, my older brother started to be in punk rock bands when he was 13 and I was 11. So they would practice at our house, and then immediately, my friend group became

• 6:39Speaker 05

  the people in the music scene in Louisville. So if I wasn't in the theater, I was in basements and at all ages shows and things like that, so not realizing, and people were, you know, trying to record things sometimes and put a seven-inch out, try to maybe do a regional tour and things like that, but it was just, that was just life.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 6:58Speaker 05

  And so it was, yeah, it was just, when I got to my early 20s, I thought, I just realized, like, I've already been to school.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  You were already doing it.

• 7:06Speaker 05

  I did all my training, yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think also, when people get frustrated with how to do something, they don't realize that sometimes you, I don't know if you agree with this, but you just have to do it. And that doesn't mean you're going to get a job doing it, but you just have to make stuff.

• 7:23Speaker 05

  Right.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  For, it's not like you've got to, you can't wait for someone to hire you to make stuff. You have to just make stuff.

• 7:30Speaker 05

  You have to just make stuff. It's a strange thing with making records, because it can take so much time and sometimes money to do, and so it's, you know, sometimes when people are digging into making a record, for example, and think, saying, then I'm going to shop it around, and you say, what does that even mean? And, you know...

• 7:48Speaker 00

  No, you've just got to play gigs and make stuff in front of people.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  In front of people and with yourself, you know? You just have to keep working, working, thinking, reading, talking about what it is that you're doing.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:01Speaker 05

  In some balance of those things.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  And doing it in some way, whatever way you can find.

• 8:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 05

  And not, I think also, people think this is how something is done, you know, following the paths that others have forged, not realizing that the majority of what they're observing are kind of least-common-denominator ways of approaching doing this work, and it's usually not applicable to any individual. Like, every individual is going to end up creating his or her own process, and you think...

• 8:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's no formula.

• 8:34Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. This is what I do, I'm supposed to do this by this point, and get my picture taken in this way.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  If you can, if it feels right.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  But if it doesn't feel right, please don't do it, because you will become discouraged and depressed.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's the life of an artist. You have to forge your own way and make your own thing.

• 8:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Because if you try to copy somebody else's, it's not your thing.

• 8:56Speaker 05

  It isn't your thing, yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  It's not your thing.

• 8:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Can we play a song?

• 9:01Speaker 05

  Yes, please.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yeah? I really love your music.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  That's very sweet of you to say.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  And I especially love this song. I don't know what you want to start with, but could we start with "This Is Far From Over"?

• 9:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Yeah?

• 9:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  It's a goodie.

• 9:15Speaker 05

  I love it. Yeah, yeah. We have a ball with it, you know? And we haven't, we can at some point speak about Jacob Duncan.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, all the time.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  When we made the record that that song, that was, you know, Jacob's all over that record.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  Plays saxophone and flute.

• 9:33Speaker 05

  Saxophone and flute primarily. I think he plays a little bit of piano on that record, but there's a point in the song where he takes a solo with the flute.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  I knew it was him.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  And, you know, sometimes, if I'm, if I think about it, like when we're playing live, because it's, his solo comes right after the line, "The wind blows through her," as the wind blows through her hair, you know? And then I'm like, now Jacob Duncan is the wind.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  He is the wind.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, he really is. And then he does, and not only is he the wind, but he's the wind, like, blowing through her hair, you know?

• 10:08Speaker 00

  He's such a beautiful musician.

• 10:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, and a beautiful human, but yeah, such a beautiful...

• 10:12Speaker 00

  One of my, I told you this when I, we connected, I said, you play with one of my all-time favorite humans.

• 10:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  And kind of not human at the same time. He's like, not of this earth, he's just one of those people. We went to college together, and I was in his band, and he was like a saxophone major and I was a piano major, but I was singing in his band, and his music was so weird and insane and beautiful.

• 10:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  And it was like nothing I'd ever done before. And I couldn't believe that he was writing these lyrics, you know? It was just very strange, and he, I immediately fell in love with him.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 05

  It's great. He's down for everything, and...

• 10:54Speaker 00

  It's great.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  Yeah. We like to have adventures.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  It seems like a good partnership, you know?

• 10:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  It's fun when you find these people in life to make music with and travel with.

• 11:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, and then just live with, kind of, you know, essentially, yeah. Because he's somebody that...

• 11:08Speaker 00

  You hang out all the time in Louisville.

• 11:10Speaker 05

  I mean, as much as being a parent of a young child allows me to hang out with anybody, he's probably socially maybe...

• 11:20Speaker 05

  He might even be the person I end up seeing the most, partly because he also will just call and say, hey, want to get some coffee?

• 11:26Speaker 00

  He's the best.

• 11:27Speaker 05

  Which people don't do these days, you know? Even as you're closer, or I find, you know? I think it happens in New York a lot more because I was talking to some French friends who lived here for a while, moved back to France. What do you miss about living in New York? And they say, just making spur of the moment plans with people.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Oh, really? They don't do that?

• 11:45Speaker 05

  They don't do it as much in Paris. They live in Paris, yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  They don't do that?

• 11:48Speaker 05

  And we don't really do it in Louisville that much.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  I feel like in New York, people need to leave their house, their apartments. Usually, they need to like get out and be among someone that is not a stranger.

• 12:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Maybe.

• 12:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  Though half of life is gone for good and we haven't acted as we should, you feel it in your heart of wood that this is far from over.

• 12:31Speaker 05

  Shorelines gone and maps destroyed, livelihoods dissolved and void, entire languages unheard. And still, it's far from over.

• 12:51Speaker 05

  Be sure and teach your kids to swim and navigate. By stars above, the fate of all our lives is grim if you ignore our will to love.

• 13:11Speaker 05

  When all that's left is sea and sun, a lonely voice says, all's not done. It's your child who will be the one to sing. It's far from over.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  A traveler upon the sea sings. It's a sailor's life for me. I now embrace eternity. Yes, this is far from over.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  You never know what she will find when we are dead and she is sailing, nor what new thoughts will cross her mind as wind blows in her hair.

• 14:32Speaker 05

  Don't worry if all life seems gone. The rocks and the sea will still roll on and new wild creatures will be born. Yes, this is far from over.

• 14:53Speaker 05

  The whole world's far from over.

• 15:08Speaker 05

  Beautiful. In the solo section, you did a couple little grace note-y kind of things, I think, that, do you know where those come from? Because it made me wonder, because the name that came into my head is Floyd Kramer?

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Floyd Kramer, yeah.

• 15:24Speaker 05

  And is that, is that right? Is that like?

• 15:25Speaker 00

  That's what people used to tell me when I first came out, you know, on the scene. And the truth is, I probably heard some Floyd Kramer on like Patsy Cline or like some old country recordings. But for me, it comes from, I think Willie Nelson recordings and his sister Bobby playing piano, mostly.

• 15:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, because she would do those kinds of?

• 15:47Speaker 00

  She would do that stuff. And I much, I loved hers, you know?

• 15:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  I think it came from her.

• 15:53Speaker 05

  Do you know Pig Robins?

• 15:56Speaker 00

  No.

• 15:57Speaker 05

  He, he's recently deceased. He was a piano session player, Nashville session player, who you've heard on thousands of songs, who has a very distinct style that seems like he's probably evolved from, like Floyd Kramer was probably his sort of godfather kind of person.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Probably.

• 16:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Also, I think it's a very gospel-y thing to do. So I also get it from that.

• 16:20Speaker 05

  There is a specific sort of like, yeah, that's a country thing.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  I remember going back and listening to Floyd Kramer after people would tell me that I had that thing. And it was cool, but it wasn't what I was drawn to as much as like the Bobby Nelson version of it, you know? But.

• 16:39Speaker 05

  There was some airline a few years ago that was, their boarding music was, I think it was Floyd Kramer doing, Have I Told You Lately That I Love You?

• 16:48Speaker 00

  It's hilarious.

• 16:50Speaker 05

  Boom, boom.

• 16:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. It was also, he did a lot of like more pop records.

• 16:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:56Speaker 00

  So it was all kind of schmaltzy behind him.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  Very schmaltzy.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  So that's not what I was into, but I mean, he was incredible. He had, what a, what a cool thing to have like this weird piano style and be a star from it. You know what I mean?

• 17:08Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I mean, it's wonderful to think of these little cauldron, musical cauldrons, you know, that Nashville was specifically, where people could come in with new evolutions of style that would kind of affect the world of Western popular, traditional music.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  It is, it's so weird.

• 17:29Speaker 05

  And feed off of each other, you know? It's not just an individual, but they're probably trying to push each other's buttons and impress each other in the sessions and keep, stay employed.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 17:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's a weird thing. Music is so weird where it comes from and what, how we're all influenced and, you know, how things come out of our mouths based on what was inputted into our brains.

• 17:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  You know what I mean?

• 17:53Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  So.

• 17:54Speaker 05

  Yeah. My daughter, do you know what Kiwi kits are?

• 17:58Speaker 00

  What, what?

• 17:59Speaker 05

  Kiwi kits.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  No, what's that?

• 18:01Speaker 05

  They're, I don't know if they get up to the age of your kids, but they're these, they're like shoebox sized things that we have a subscription to and you put things together.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 18:09Speaker 05

  And they're great.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Oh, I have heard of this. Yeah, that's cool. I think we missed that boat.

• 18:12Speaker 05

  And there was one about music that she got over the summer and it came with a textbook about music.

• 18:19Speaker 05

  And it was deeply disturbing.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Really?

• 18:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, because in the introduction, and sometime I'm going to look up who these people are. They're, they're Canadian, so that might explain it. But it doesn't, it sounds very American because they talk about how, they say like, at one point, music was used as a form of communication.

• 18:41Speaker 05

  And I was just blown away, you know? It's like, what do you mean at one point? What are you, what are you trying to tell? And then it went on to say like, now even, you know, now artificial intelligence can create things and you can, and I'm just like,

• 18:54Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 18:55Speaker 05

  This isn't correct. This is not a, this is not a line of thinking that should be fed to children's brains. But you do realize that people are not aware on almost any level that when they're listening to music, they are actively being communicated to.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  I didn't, I would have never actually thought about it in those words, actually. But of course.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's, I mean, we're, you and I are connecting right now on levels and we're, you know, sharing connection. We're bringing things from the past into the present. And, and every lyric is, you know, is guiding the listener's thoughts and, and, you know, how they perceive language even, and how they perceive storytelling and.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Well, what about this? Fundamentally, there are bodies, cells in our bodies changing just because of the interaction we're having.

• 19:49Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 19:50Speaker 00

  Like my music will forever have whatever it is we're doing here together in it.

• 19:55Speaker 05

  Right.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  And you know what I mean?

• 19:57Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 19:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I mean, that's what, I'm like, that's what we do. It's like, that's what we do for a living is we're going around communicating.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's true. Wow.

• 20:07Speaker 05

  And people need it, you know? Just sitting in, you know, Washington Square Park last night and all the music that was happening, all different styles of music, you know, from different sources, you know, people singing to backing tapes or just doing acapella singing or playing a violin and.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  Summer nights in Washington Square Park are pretty special.

• 20:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, but it's just, people just do it, you know? It's what we do, like anything, like eating, sleeping, having sex. We make music and/or take music in because it's a necessity.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 05

  Because we need the connection. We need the affirmation of connection with our community of fellow humans and that.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's also like a form of release, listening or playing.

• 20:48Speaker 05

  It can release and it can wind you up, right?

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:51Speaker 05

  Sometimes in good ways, yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 06

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• 21:27Speaker 03

  On Veterans Day, Ford will host a military tribute race with six teams competing to honor each branch of the armed forces at Daytona International Speedway. Plus, a star-studded concert featuring Zac Brown Band, Warren Ziders, Russell Dickerson, and more, all in support of service members and their families. Tune in live to watch the proud-to-honor Veterans Day Classic, November 11th at 8:00 PM Eastern on USA Network and Fandango.

• 21:54Speaker 01

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• 22:56Speaker 00

  Your music, you have a little bit of Irish stuff in there. Is that related to you at all? You just came back from Ireland.

• 23:05Speaker 05

  I came back from Ireland just now, yeah. And-

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Or you're just a little Irish because you just came back from Ireland.

• 23:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  Some of your songs have like that thing, you know?

• 23:15Speaker 05

  There was a thing where, so I was involved with theater when I was a kid. At one point, the people that ran the theater decided to take some people over to Scotland and parts of England to, like, we went to where, you know, Shakespeare lived and-

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Really?

• 23:35Speaker 05

  And worked. And we also went to where the last tree of Burnham Wood from Macbeth, because, you know, the whole forest at some point fulfills the prophecy of the witches and comes to Dunsinane. Is that where he is, you know? So we were, you know, she was deep into the way English royalty is portrayed as plot and themes in Shakespeare's plays. Anyway, we went over there, I met a kid, and years later, I hitchhiked through the same part of Scotland and went to this guy's house. And we started talking about music and he, because I was drawn to certain aspects of

• 24:19Speaker 05

  Celtic singing in my teens, but I didn't, I couldn't find the gold, you know? I didn't know how to look for it, or what names to look for, or what words to look for. And he said, you know, he's like, "Well, I'll send you a tape. What are you, you know, what are you interested in?" I said, "Well, for one, the bagpipe. It's an amazing, awesome instrument, but I'm never, you know, my soul is never quite moved, but I know that it's there." Or Robert Burns, you know, the Scottish poet who wrote, like, Old Lang Syne. He's credited with Old Lang Syne, "My Love is Like a Red, Red Rose." I thought, "I bet there's some great recordings of Robert Burns songs, but you can only buy

• 25:02Speaker 05

  these souvenir tapes in truck stops and things like that, and they're not very engaging." So he said, "Okay, give me five pounds for postage and..."

• 25:10Speaker 00

  That's sweet.

• 25:12Speaker 05

  And then months went by, nothing happened, and then, and I thought, "Oh, well, he just, you know, he bought himself a pint, and that's fine." But he sent me then five 90-minute tapes that he'd made, five 90-minute mixed tapes.

• 25:25Speaker 00

  Oh, he really went for it.

• 25:26Speaker 05

  Each like a 90-minute tape-

• 25:27Speaker 00

  That's a lot of music.

• 25:29Speaker 05

  90-minute tapes of Robert Burns, 90-minute tape of traditional songs, 90-minute tape of new songs, like in Celtic traditions, Irish, Northern English, and Scottish, and with extensive notes. And this was in 88 or something like that. So the next year, I think that's all I listened to. And the first seven-inch of, first song I put out on a seven-inch was a geographic adaptation of a Scottish song called "Lock Tay Boat Song" that we adapted to the Ohio River Boat Song. So I have always, you know, and in terms, it's like country music.

• 26:08Speaker 05

  It's people who are really pushing the narrative, and I like the narrative aspect of lyric songs.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what, you do it very well.

• 26:19Speaker 05

  It's, I mean, it's because it's coming from acting and, you know, acting in plays, acting in films, and then thinking, "That's what I knew about how to make when I started making records."

• 26:31Speaker 00

  Where you started, kind of. That's cool. I can hear it. And you were just in Ireland, and you said after the shows, there's always music somewhere to be had.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  And play, play with people.

• 26:43Speaker 05

  And play with people.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  Like, you go to a bar and you just play with people. People are always playing music.

• 26:49Speaker 05

  People seem to be always playing music. Yeah, there was, then, two nights ago, we played a show in south of Dublin, and someone said, "Oh, you know, if you want a nightcap, there's a little bar in the neighborhood. You can walk over there." And we walked over, still sort of just, you know, buzzing from the show. We'd had a good show.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  And I opened the door to the pub, and right inside the door were three women, maybe around 60 years old, I'm not sure, wearing matching sparkly gold tops, and they were exuding, like, celebratory energy, these women. And, you know, as soon as I opened the door, that's what I see, these three glowing, sparkling women who are sparkling in every way you can imagine.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  That's an invitation right there.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. You know, I just, I think the first thing's out of my mouth was something like, you know, "Thank you," I think I thanked God at that moment, like, to them, you know, to their face. I just opened the door, and I was like, "Oh, thank you, God, for this."

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 05

  And that began, and they had apparently, like, just all gone, taken the train up to, or the bus up to Belfast and seen the matinee performance of Mamma Mia-

• 28:06Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, how awesome.

• 28:06Speaker 05

  As their, like, girls' night out together. And come back, and they were at this pub just celebrating, and there was music playing on the loudspeakers, but it didn't matter, because for the next hour, we all just sang traditional Irish songs, and we sang "You've Got a Friend," you know, because one of them told the story about, it was her and her brother's song, and she's like, "Can we do this one? Can we do James Taylor, "You've Got a Friend?" I was like, "Sure, let's do that one."

• 28:30Speaker 00

  That's so fun.

• 28:31Speaker 05

  And doing ABBA songs, you know?

• 28:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  And that was just a very natural thing. Like, we just took over the space and sang for an hour, hour and a half, something like that.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was great.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  But you also bring that energy.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  I'm down.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're, you're down.

• 28:48Speaker 05

  DTS.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, down to say.

• 28:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Have you ever been a busker? Have you, do you play out?

• 28:54Speaker 05

  I have.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  Did you ever do that?

• 28:55Speaker 05

  Not really, no.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I never did that. I was too shy.

• 28:58Speaker 05

  Yeah. I don't, wouldn't know, yeah. I think part of it is this communication, like, I'm desperate for collaboration and communication.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 05

  And that's always been the driving force. And so if you're busking, it seems, you know-

• 29:13Speaker 00

  Very solitary, unless you're busking with other people.

• 29:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, unless you're busking with other people.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  But they would have to initiate it, because I don't think I would.

• 29:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's a whole other thing.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  It's a, it's a whole other thing. And I always, you know, I always try to give as much as I can give out of my pockets to people who are busking, because I'm grateful for what they're putting out there, for sure.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  Also, just the amount of balls it takes to do that, I feel like, is commendable, you know?

• 29:37Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  And it's a great way to get better, if you can just do it consistently. You know, any regular gig is, so if that's your regular gig, it's-

• 29:47Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  It's, it's like practice, public practice.

• 29:50Speaker 05

  Definitely public practice. I think, I would probably become obsessed with creating goals, right? Like, can you get 10 people to sing along with a song that they'd never heard before and on this given Thursday that you've gone out to busk or something like that?

• 30:05Speaker 00

  God, that sounds so stressful. I'm like sweating just thinking about it.

• 30:08Speaker 05

  Yes, I know. It does sound stressful. Yeah, that's why I don't do it.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, same.

• 30:11Speaker 05

  I mean, even playing shows, I find it intensely stressful.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  Do you get shy?

• 30:18Speaker 05

  I mean, until we start playing, because, you know, mostly because of the people that I play with, then, then it all feels-

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 05

  Then you're at the top of the slope, you know, and you're skiing once the show starts. But leading up to the moment of the first note, it's just in knots and desperation and thinking, you know, "Well, we have played good shows in the past. It's not going to be, not going to happen tonight."

• 30:47Speaker 00

  Really?

• 30:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  You don't strike me as someone who would have that kind of-

• 30:51Speaker 05

  I think it's so strange, you know, it's a, I think it's a game that your brain is playing on you and your body chemistry is playing, you know? It's saying like, "We're going to need all the confidence you can muster in about 10 minutes, so I'm going to, I'm sucking it out of your," you have no access to it.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Smash it down until, until you get out there.

• 31:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're hiding it from you until you get out there. Because if you go out there with confidence, then you might not be prepared.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  I'm just guessing. Like, I try to think about it all the time. Why, why does it work this way? Why does the brain, do you not get on, do you not get nervous?

• 31:21Speaker 00

  I don't in that way.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  But it's not like I'm thinking about how great it's going to be, you know? I think I'm more just like, I'm doing whatever I'm doing, and then I'm doing it.

• 31:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  You know?

• 31:34Speaker 05

  And how does a set, like, is a set usually go similarly from night to night?

• 31:40Speaker 00

  Occasionally it does. I, for a long time, I really just hated doing the same set, and I play with a lot of really beautifully loose musicians, and I'm pretty loose, so I really like to change it up.

• 31:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 00

  Last tour, I had a lot of specific arrangements and these two beautiful harmony singers, and so it was a little more set.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  And I actually enjoyed it. I thought I was going to get sick of it, but I didn't.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  No, if you're playing with good people, that can be intensely-

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:08Speaker 05

  Comforting even, or no, or just freeing?

• 32:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a little comforting.

• 32:11Speaker 05

  Even freeing?

• 32:12Speaker 00

  It was a little, I don't know. I guess I was freed from the need to, like, change it up all the time, which, which was kind of nice.

• 32:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I kind of go, I slipped back and forth.

• 32:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, we, we just did another European trip, maybe about a month ago, and we were traveling with a woman named Dawn Landis.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  I know Dawn.

• 32:29Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. So she opened, and then she joined our ensemble every night.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  That's not so fun.

• 32:35Speaker 05

  And at the end of each set- Um, we did four songs where I put my instrument down and just sang and Dawn played.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 32:43Speaker 05

  So those four songs were the same every show. And it was really cool, you know, just to know, you know, we would, because you never know what's going to happen until that point.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 32:53Speaker 05

  And then as soon as that starts, it's like, all right, you know, and now I know exactly, you know, what this terrain is going to be.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 05

  So I could sort of plan ahead or, you know.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 33:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  I feel like when it's like that for me, I'm like, I know this works. It's usually a crowd pleaser or like, it's pleasing to people. So I know this is going to be good vibes.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  And but I kind of still like the tightrope walk where you don't really know if they're going to be into it. And I think sometimes you can get real magic out of that.

• 33:21Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  But it's nice to do both. That's a good idea, actually. I'm going to steal that one. Thank you.

• 33:25Speaker 05

  We introduced a new fun process just for the last two shows where we put, rode the set, right, the set out and at dinnertime. And then we pass the set around to everybody. And you put the initials by each song of another musician. So you're choosing, so like, there's 16 songs, say, in a set. I hand it to Jacob. Jacob has to put either mine, Aiman's, or Thomas's initials by a song, assigning

• 34:00Speaker 05

  the beginning of that song to that musician.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  Oh, that's really loose. Okay.

• 34:04Speaker 05

  And so you didn't, you know, so then they're just, and you can assign any song to anybody. You can't assign the song yourself and it has to be even. It has to break down into four songs apiece.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  So then whoever gets their initial has to start the song.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  Has to start the song.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  Even if it's just a solo saxophone.

• 34:19Speaker 05

  So, yeah, Jacob would then throw out.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  So you're very loose.

• 34:22Speaker 05

  He would throw out it.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  I like that.

• 34:24Speaker 05

  Except, you know, it's, I mean, it's very loose, but it's intense. It's really intense. It's not, it's not relaxed because all of a sudden, yeah, Jacob has been given the song and we don't know, you know, what's the rhythm going to be?

• 34:35Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 34:36Speaker 05

  What's the vibe? What's the, you know, what's he going to introduce? Because it might just be a measure or two, just to give us time. Or he might play for a minute of

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:47Speaker 05

  his lyrical playing with flute or saxophone. And we're all like.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  But you know what the song is.

• 34:53Speaker 05

  We know what the song is. We know what the key is.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  And you won't come in until you're feeling it.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 05

  We're, we're feeling it. He may give a signal.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Uh huh. That sounds really fun.

• 35:04Speaker 05

  It was so much fun.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  What a fun little hack.

• 35:07Speaker 05

  It was amazing.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  I mean, that sounds really cool.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was, it was, because it also gives you a break sometimes, you know, when those things are happening to relax and take in as opposed, you know, it, it.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 35:20Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's a give and take of energy that you don't normally experience in quite that explicit of a way.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  I like that. I need to.

• 35:27Speaker 05

  It was a ball. I've never done it before.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  Let go of some of the control. I've been noticing this lately. I, I usually start like every song and I'm like, I don't want to. I just, I'm used to it.

• 35:37Speaker 05

  That's where, I mean, I was doing that and I'm just like, I don't like this.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I, I also know where I like to put it, to sing it, you know, tempo wise, but maybe I don't need to do that.

• 35:47Speaker 05

  No.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Maybe I should be.

• 35:49Speaker 05

  You can take it, you know, you can pick it up anywhere.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Out of my comfort zone.

• 35:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 35:53Speaker 05

  Because it's still mostly your comfort zone. It's going to be a composition that you're familiar with, playing with people that you know.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 35:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm stealing that.

• 36:02Speaker 05

  Do it.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 36:02Speaker 05

  I think more, you know, yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 36:05Speaker 05

  Because, yeah, we'd be, there'd be a break between songs and I'd just think,

• 36:10Speaker 05

  now I have to, I was in that song. We were having such a good time and now we have to start over again and, you know, and if somebody's, if it's somebody else's job, you can stay like in this imaginary realm that we exist in sometimes up there.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  I want to be on stage with you guys.

• 36:27Speaker 05

  Please.

• 36:27Speaker 01

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• 37:00Speaker 03

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• 37:27Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Nora McInerney, host of the Head Start: Embracing the Journey podcast. We're back with more honest conversations from people living with chronic migraine. People figuring out how to adapt, advocate, and stay connected to the things that bring them joy while managing their condition. People like romance novelist Britt Middleton.

• 37:46Speaker 07

  It's not often that people can look at you and see that you are living with this. And it felt very important for me to show how people can have these incredibly successful, high-pressure, highly visible jobs. But I also wanted to show, because it is a romance, that having the right partner and her love interests actually takes care of her during a migraine attack that happens in the book. And that is also based on my life as somebody who's had an incredible partner to me for the last 14 years.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Listen to the Head Start: Embracing the Journey on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is brought to you in partnership with ABV.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  So who's in the band? There's a live record coming out with this band.

• 38:33Speaker 05

  Essentially, for the past couple of years, Jacob Duncan playing flute and sax, pretty much.

• 38:40Speaker 00

  And winds.

• 38:41Speaker 05

  And Thomas Deacon playing tuned down electric guitar.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 38:48Speaker 05

  Clarinet and cornet. Those are his main things. And so it's kind of been the three of us on the last studio record called We Are Together Again. And they're this, they're the, we were touring California as a trio. When we got to LA, we picked up four or five other people. And there was an engineer from Louisville who'd moved out to LA. And I said, you know, would you come and track these two shows just because it's going to be fun? And so that was, the band is just these people who are, you know, my cousin plays piano, different collaborators. There was one guy named Patrick Shiroshi, who's a saxophone player.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  But not people who are on the road with you always?

• 39:28Speaker 05

  No, we're, it's pretty much kind of the three of us.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Usually, okay.

• 39:32Speaker 05

  And then, like Dawn Landis, for example, or

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 39:35Speaker 05

  Dawn McCarthy is coming with us in November in Europe and.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Only people named Dawn.

• 39:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, two Dons. It was a little confusing. Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  They're very different musicians, though.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  It's called the Ghosts of

• 39:49Speaker 05

  Ghosts of American Psychonauts.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  I had to Google Psychonauts to see if it was a real word or just a fun, put-together word.

• 39:54Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 39:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:55Speaker 05

  And what'd you discover?

• 39:56Speaker 00

  I discovered that my Google had a whole definition for it.

• 40:01Speaker 05

  Oh, really? What did it say?

• 40:02Speaker 00

  It said it's someone between being in this present and also being in their mind or maybe something to do with hallucinogenics, but maybe more just like meditation or just being in the realm, kind of, which sort of tracks.

• 40:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 05

  Yeah. And it's, it's a play on, you know, one of the more powerful influences on my musical life was, it has been a group that formed in the late 70s in Leeds, England, called The Mekons. And they're still around, still making amazing records and touring. And they had a song called Ghosts of American Astronauts.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Oh, cool. Okay.

• 40:41Speaker 05

  From the late 80s, but it was about the idea of, you know, maybe like the idea of Kubrick being involved with creating the hallucination that there was a moon landing.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like that story.

• 40:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 05

  It's a great story.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 40:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:58Speaker 00

  That's great. Well, it's a beautiful album.

• 41:00Speaker 05

  It's, I mean, isn't it just wild? It's just like, we're just sitting in there cackling.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  And like, sometimes I'll hear you on this record going, ooh, and it's just so sweet. And it's like, you're reacting to Jacob and he takes this solo on, I See a Darkness.

• 41:18Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  It makes me want to cry because it, it's so beautiful. And it also brings me back to like, that time that we were playing music as young people together and just, it was maybe one of the first times I noticed someone, you know, my age, well, he's a couple of years older. At that time, it felt like a lot older, but someone who was maybe my peer, who just was playing from their soul.

• 41:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Instead of, I mean, we went to jazz school. So there was a lot of just playing the notes, you know? So it was, it really brought me back to that.

• 41:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, when we, we play that most nights, there's another song called West Palm Beach, and these are two songs that he, yeah, it's something that I look forward to.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:01Speaker 05

  Every night because, especially in the middle of I See a Darkness, when he plays that solo, because it's also, his solo is different every night.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 05

  But.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  I figured it was.

• 42:12Speaker 05

  We live life together, you know?

• 42:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 05

  And we talk about a lot of things, you know, personal things and global things. And then when we're on stage, like in the middle of I See a Darkness and he plays that, it's, it's like he's, he's saying all the things that we've been talking about, but using, you know, a form of communication that we're, we don't have access to when we're just sitting around talking, you know? But it's just right there and it's.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  It's special.

• 42:38Speaker 05

  Very special.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a beautiful record. And I can feel, I mean, I had a feeling you play songs differently every night, but you just confirmed it. So it feels like that.

• 42:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  It feels like there's, this is a special moment to catch on tape, you know?

• 42:53Speaker 05

  It was Valentine's Day weekend in Los Angeles and, yeah, my wife and daughter were there.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 42:59Speaker 05

  And it was, yeah, it was right, right after.

• 43:05Speaker 05

  Fires. It was in February of 25. Yeah. So the fires, I think, were mostly like January.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that's really fresh.

• 43:12Speaker 05

  And my cousin who plays keys on it, he had lost his home. His daughter had lost her school, like burned down. He'd lost, they'd lost everything. Everything in their house. They like, he sent me pictures of them just literally sifting through the ashes on the ground to find out if there was anything that they could save.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  You know? And, yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 43:34Speaker 05

  It was crazy. And then that night, one of the two nights, it was raining and there were mudslide warnings in Los Angeles.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  That's right. That's wild.

• 43:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  What venue was it?

• 43:44Speaker 05

  Pico Union, Pico Union Project, which I think was, maybe someone threw around the phrase that it had been the first synagogue in Los Angeles. At one point, I think it was also a church, and now it's sort of a community center that has performances sometimes, kind of close to downtown. It was a great room.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  That's great. I'll check it out.

• 44:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, do you like playing in churches architecturally?

• 44:12Speaker 00

  I'd like to do more of it.

• 44:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. Don't do it a lot?

• 44:15Speaker 00

  I have not played in a church since I went to church.

• 44:17Speaker 05

  Oh, my goodness, really?

• 44:19Speaker 00

  But I, you know, I started going to this church in Brooklyn a few years ago because I'm trying to like do that with my kids because I grew up going to church and-

• 44:28Speaker 05

  What kind of church you grew up?

• 44:29Speaker 00

  Uh, Methodist. And I love the band that this church would go to. And I thought, God, it would be so fun to sing in this room, you know? It's just made for it.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  What's the band like here in Brooklyn?

• 44:40Speaker 00

  It's a gospel band, but-

• 44:42Speaker 05

  With drums, bass, organ?

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Organ. The organ guy is amazing. And piano, organ. And this lady sings and plays percussion, and she's kind of a badass percussion player. And I Googled her. She's like this famous soap opera actress.

• 44:59Speaker 05

  Oh, interesting.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  It's kind of wild.

• 45:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  Isn't it amazing? I mean, there's so many crazy, weird, stupid things that people do, including not going to church for music because it's free.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  There's no drinking, you know? You get up in the morning and the first thing you do is take in fantastic music. Because I know in Louisville, Kentucky, there's, there's music happening all over the city on Sunday morning, on Wednesday evenings, you know?

• 45:28Speaker 00

  Well, it's more common church going in that part of the country, I think.

• 45:33Speaker 05

  Sure. But I would imagine that New York would probably be pretty generous.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  I think it's making a comeback.

• 45:38Speaker 05

  I don't know. I can't imagine that it wouldn't just be everywhere.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  I heard it's making a comeback with young people going to church, but I will say this-

• 45:45Speaker 05

  I don't really like the church part, but I like the music. I'm just talking about the music.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  Well, for me, I am not really that religious, but I liked the church part because it kind of feels like a little bit of a communal meditation.

• 45:58Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  And the few times I've taken my kids, I think we just needed something. Like, we must have been, I must have been going through something to drag them to church, right?

• 46:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  But there have been twice where I just start crying in the middle of one of the songs.

• 46:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Not the sermon, but the songs.

• 46:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  And I like the sermons.

• 46:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  But the songs are what release it all. So.

• 46:19Speaker 05

  Absolutely. That, after, it was, it was so nice. After, you know, as lockdown was easing up, you know, I hadn't gone, I hadn't played any shows, I hadn't gone to see any shows because nobody did. And just coincidentally, the first show that I, that was possible for me to, that I was aware of that I could go to, was a gospel, like, showcase.

• 46:49Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 46:50Speaker 05

  And, in Louisville. And, I mean, partly the music was phenomenal, but also just the unexpected sort of explosion from inside of me.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  To be in a room with people and experiencing music that was incredible. You know, it was one of those occasions where, you know, I wish I had like your hairband on because I was worried maybe the top of my head would just find its way blown to the ceiling of the room.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  That sounds like a-

• 47:21Speaker 05

  It was just so-

• 47:22Speaker 00

  A great moment.

• 47:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was great. It was great. Yeah. And again, it's just pass the hat and, and people just making great music. Great music. Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:34Speaker 05

  With great singing. Because, yeah, finding great singing is oftentimes a challenge in my lifetime because people just, I think people have been in America or maybe frightened of the vulnerability of, that comes with singing.

• 47:48Speaker 00

  Yes. And there's singing and then there's emoting, you know, being actually in touch with the emotion of what you're saying. And not everyone who's singing is, but when you go to church, they are because that's why they're there.

• 48:02Speaker 05

  Exactly, yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  That's the whole point.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 00

  They're not like overthinking their notes. They're just serving the, the higher spirit, you know?

• 48:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Which is really beautiful, I think.

• 48:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Hey, thanks for listening. That was such a joy. If you want to know what songs we played in this episode, we played "This Is Far From Over" from the album "I Made A Place," Bonnie Prince Billy, released in 2019. Special thanks to Will Oldham, Bonnie Prince Billy, for joining us today. Norah Jones is playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jamie Landry. Audio post-production and mastering by Jamie Landry. Artwork by Eliza Frye. Photography by Shirvin Linaz. Produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers, Erin Juan Kaufman and Jordan Rantog. Marketing lead, Alison Cantor-Graeber. We can pickle that.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  On Veterans Day, Ford will host a military tribute race with six teams competing to honor each branch of the armed forces at Daytona International Speedway. Plus, a star-studded concert featuring Zac Brown Band, Warren Ziders, Russell Dickerson, and more, all in support of service members and their families. Tune in live to watch the proud-to-honor Veterans Day classic, November 11th at 8:00 PM Eastern on USA Network and Fandango.

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