Norah Jones Is Playing Along
GRAMMY-winning artist Arooj Aftab joins Norah for a funny hang with stories of their unexpected run-ins over the years.
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If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Arooj Aftab.
Welcome. I'm Nora. This is Sarah Oda.
Welcome to our show. Our guest today is Grammy-winning singer, composer, producer Arooj Aftab. She made history as the first artist from Pakistan to win a Grammy when she won in 2022 for Best Global Music Performance. She has a pretty storied path, which I feel she kind of pulls from so many different places and it makes her sound really unique.
She's got a beautiful voice. I've always loved it. I'm so excited she got to come do this with me. I met her through my sister Anushka Shankar. They have done a few different collaborations together. I met her at the Grammys when they performed together. And yeah, she's just cool. This was so fun.
She's really funny, too.
Yeah, she is funny.
I learned a new saying. I don't want to give it away, so maybe we'll bleep it. But like when you're really close to something, that you're [BLEEP] away from something.
A [BLEEP]. Do you remember when she said that?
Yeah, I was like, what?
We're like, can we just go back a step?
I've never thought about a [BLEEP] before.
Oh, my God. She's very funny.
And as always, there's incredible duets in the episode, including a song in Urdu and a cover of one of my favorite pop hits.
I was so excited when she suggested the cover.
Yeah.
It's like a little bit of a, you know, like, I've always wanted to do that song, too.
It's very special, so stay tuned.
I hope you enjoy the episode with Arooj Aftab.
There is some spicy language in this episode, so listener discretion is advised. It's not that bad, but just so you know, it's there.
It feels weird that you're doing all the accompaniment.
No, it's fun. It's actually really fun.
Yeah, it's literally the name of the podcast.
Yeah. It's fun when somebody else plays and I don't have to do as much homework sometimes, but I also, it's kind of good for me.
I've only ever seen you play and sing live.
Yeah, there was a couple of years where I would stand up and sing a couple of songs without playing, but I don't really look good doing that.
I've never seen you do that.
I don't know what to do with my hands.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think part of what makes my thing special is the marriage of the piano and the singing.
All of it's special.
Do you play, what do you write on?
Guitar.
Okay, cool.
I haven't sang someone else's song in a while.
Yeah, do you not usually do any covers?
No. It's just like, I've been a brat. And I was just like, oh my god.
I don't think that's bratty.
It's actually really, it's actually so great. I feel like all of us should be regularly, for no reason, just like, learning other people's songs, because you learn so much.
Well, it's like learning a new language.
Yeah, because everybody has different turns.
You must be so, like, you just, through the podcast, you're just, you kind of are learning everybody else's music.
Yeah, I think it's been good for me, writing-wise, too. But I probably end up writing a lot of stuff that sounds like other people's songs from the podcast, probably now. But that's okay. That's how writing works.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, I realize that I've just been so comfortable in my comfort zone of my own music, that, like, I was like, this is hard.
I know, but this is all...
Freaking out.
I'm also not in my comfort zone, so we're both, the playing field should be even, if we're both not in our comfort zone, right?
Yeah. No, I mean, this is, I'm comfortable knowing that, I mean, I just can't even believe that you're gonna play "Mohabat" right now.
Well, I'm gonna try.
Let's do it.
Okay.
محبوب کرنے والے کم نہ ہوں گے
تیری مہفل میں لیکن ہم نہ ہوں گے
محبوب کرنے والے
زمانے بھر کے غم یا ایک تیرا غم زمانے بھر کے غم یا ایک تیرا غم
محبوب کرنے والے کم نہ ہوں گے تیری مہفل میں لیکن ہم نہ ہوں گے
That's really sweet. I thought that was gorgeous.
Oh, your voice is so pretty.
You're just, you're Norah Jones.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. The way you play, it's like, that's you.
Oh, yeah.
This is crazy, dude.
It's crazy. It's so fun to have you.
Thank you.
Thanks for having, thanks for even knowing and caring and inviting me.
No, you've been on our list, actually, for a really long time.
Been on the list.
Been on the list, the good list.
The good one. There's some bad ones.
Yeah, we have a no, no podcast guest list. Don't ever invite X and Y.
No, we met at the Grammys last year. Did we meet before that?
So, we met in, I don't know if it was 2006.
Oh, wow.
Or 2007. I was in New York and Anushka played, I think, I don't know if it was at Carnegie Hall or it was at Town Hall or some hall, some big hall.
Some hall.
Some massive hall in New York. And then I was in the elevator going down to see her and then the doors opened on a different floor and you just like walked into the elevator and then were like standing next to me and I was like completely having like a full meltdown.
Was I a total bitch?
No, you were cool. I mean, you obviously didn't know who I was, but I was like, oh, my God. And then I was like, I like, I was like, hi, I like easy listening. I was like so nervous and you were like, you mean easy? Because that was the song.
Oh, the song from her record that we did together?
Was it from her record?
Easy? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I meant easy, not easy listening. And then, and then we were at the floor and we kind of walked out and then, yeah.
That's funny.
I know. It was great.
That's a great awkward moment.
I messed up.
No.
I called it easy listening. I can't believe that.
I do have a little bit of a, like, a... Trigger for that, easy listening.
Oh.
Smooth jazz.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Cigarette lounge singer thing. I get that a lot.
I used to get that a lot and used to really.
Oh, so I just totally.
Angry. No, no, but I'm sure I knew what you meant.
The most, the, the, the, without even knowing.
It was a hot button.
I mean, the song was called Easy.
Yeah, it was called Easy.
Okay, so it's kind of leading.
Totally.
But I didn't ever think of you that way. I just said an extra word because I was nervous.
Sorry.
No, I, it's fine.
I love you.
It's just funny because I used to get really bent out of shape about it, but now I kind of like realize.
How's that even possible? Because in two thousand and six was like when your big, like when, when the massive, the two albums back to back, like those, those, like, what's the word? Is it seminal?
Oh, I don't know.
I don't even wanna try the English in that direction. It's, those, those like epic records had just come out and everyone was obsessed with you.
Well, I think I got a lot of airplay on easy listening and smooth jazz stations and I just want to say thank you. I am cool with it now.
Well, you are, uh, still the number one, Come Away With Me is still on billboards, number one jazz, uh, contemporary jazz playlist.
Oh, that's crazy.
Uh, and I know this because one of my songs went to number two for like three days. And then it said, it said something insane, like in order to come away with me, number one, and you know how it says like for how many weeks? And the, it, it was like the equivalent of like six years, but in weeks, it said something like.
Some insane number. So, yeah, you're still number one, baby.
Oh, yeah, baby. That's crazy. Um, so where did you grow up?
I grew up a little bit in Saudi Arabia. That's where I was born. My parents were there. Uh, they were like educators. And then I moved to Pakistan when I was eleven. And then I moved to Boston when I was nineteen.
And I went to Berkeley, uh, and I studied, you know. Did you study?
I studied at North Texas for two years.
Oh, okay.
I studied piano and then I was in like the jazz.
What did you, what was your concentration at Berkeley?
It was, uh, funnily, it was like engineering and production.
Oh, really?
And, and jazz.
But that's great.
Yeah, I didn't, yeah, I didn't know.
The singing as a major felt a little strange, I don't know.
Well, you already sang though, right?
I mean, I could have, it's, you can get better, but it's like, yeah. I think there was something, there was like, do engineer, there was something like, do something solid, which kind of saved me in a way.
Well, I mean, I think if they'd have had that when I was in college, I would have done that and it would have helped me a lot, but they did not have that in my school.
But you can play so well.
Oh, thank you. Well, but I, Matt can tell you.
I don't know how to do anything in there.
It's really helpful. I do feel that like knowing, learning all of the mic stuff and all of, it's like you can articulate what you want from the sound and you can also kind of imagine different instruments going together because you understand how they work from a frequency perspective.
And you can kind of be the man in the studio.
Yeah, and I like that. I like that way of describing it.
Be like, stop explaining this to me. I know how EQ works, you know?
Yeah, I've definitely had some moments where I was like, but listen to me. I don't like the way that sounds, but I didn't know how to, how to change it. But not anymore, because Matt listens to me.
Thanks, Matt.
Thanks, Matt. But did you find that, I mean, I feel like now with the way things are, nobody can afford to go into the studio anymore. So knowing how to do stuff from home, do you do a lot of stuff from home now?
Yeah, I think what, so when I finished Berklee, I moved right away to New York in 2008 and nine and that was like, all the studios were shutting down, no.
Already?
Yeah, already, like there was no studio work. You couldn't be like an assistant or anything. And everybody who had like the USB mics and the, everything was moving to like laptop stuff. So, so that's I guess still happening.
I have, I have a little studio at home where I start ideas. Yeah. It's not like this, but it, it does the job a little bit.
Yeah. That's cool. And so you grew up in Saudi Arabia and then Pakistan. Are your parents from?
They're from Pakistan.
Pakistan, okay. So they were teaching in Saudi Arabia and then you moved back. Okay.
And where do they live now?
They live, they live in Pakistan.
All right. Yeah. And then coming here at nineteen. Teen.
Mm hmm.
Was it wild? Had you been here?
I hadn't been here, no, I hadn't been here. Uh, it was weird because the, the, the thing that felt kind of crazy was arriving at a, at a music school. And sort of realizing that everyone here is that, is there, is like the individual in their high schools that was the weird music person.
And now we're all in one place, like.
You know.
That's kind of a good feeling, right?
It almost made me wanna cry, like when I got there, it was like I felt strange and like singular and crazy, like I, like that I've wanted to do this thing that no one understands and now, and there's so many other people who've had that similar experience and now we're all in one place.
We've arrived at our, you know, like destination heaven or whatever. And so that was really joyous. And it kind of removed the like, I'm in America and like, what is this strange milk in a box, you know? Or like we're, I'm trying to think of like a very American thing.
Yeah, the, the excessive use of paper towel, I guess, like.
Oh, yeah. Guilty.
This is not how you clean, guys.
I know, I know, it's so bad.
Just wipe it and then it's done.
You're right about that.
You know?
But yeah, culture shock, but also lots of just like elation that I have arrived and these are my people.
That's so great.
You know, how crazy.
Yeah. I went to a performing arts high school. Well, I think I found that. I felt like I found my people when I joined choir and marching band in middle school.
And then I really found my people um in high school. I went to a performing arts high school.
That'll do it.
Similar, yeah, yeah.
That's cool.
And then in the performing arts high school, did you study math and stuff?
Oh, yeah, no, we had to do academics.
But there was no gym, no P E.
Oh, wow, yeah.
Zero sports. And there were, you know, my, my major was piano. And, yeah.
Cause I feel like I went to college and I, and we didn't study anything except for music, so we're kind of dumb.
At Berkeley?
Yeah. I mean, now.
To get a degree? Did you get a degree?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You didn't have to take any academics?
Bachelor's degree in music.
Zero academics?
Seriously?
Okay, cause I went to North Texas and I, I took all my music classes for two years and then I, I realized. I had to take only academics after that if I wanted to get a degree because I had to play catch up. And so I dropped out.
So like Berkeley, well, we should stop saying Berkeley.
Berkeley's gonna be like, hey, what are you? Because I think now they are like, they are in cahoots with Harvard and blah, blah. So they have like a liberal arts program.
But I think they churned us out, just dummies, like.
That's so funny.
We're just musicians. I was like getting my hair done and the lady was like, oh, you're a musician? Oh, yeah. You're a jazz musician? Oh, yeah. You know, my uncle is a jazz musician. All he does is talk about music.
And I was like.
Yes, that's what, that is us.
That is us.
I don't know.
All we do, that's all we do.
Well, I think if you find a thing.
Then you're set.
Yes.
I'm like desperate for my kids. They're nine and 12. I'm desperate for them to find their thing. Because I think if you find your thing, it keeps you out of trouble.
Definitely. I think it's so important to just do the thing that you really like doing, you know?
Because a lot of people ask me, how did you get into music? And why did, when did you decide that this is what you were gonna do? And I was like, I really just loved doing it. It's the only thing I wanted. It's the only thing I liked doing.
You just always did it?
I just always did it and I, and it just always made me feel like I felt amazing when I would do it. So I was like, I'm gonna do this forever. I don't, I don't know how.
That's great.
But I'm gonna do it.
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If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.
Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
How did your parents feel about you going to Berklee?
They were really nervous at first, of course, because there's no clear sort of track. And there's no, like, there aren't any sort of, there's not a lot of success stories of like, oh, you know, yeah, you get a lottery, you'll make money, you know? Or like, how will you be an individual? How will you support yourself doing this thing? So they were just sort of a little worried about that.
But supportive ultimately?
Ultimately, I mean, they love mu-- it's their fault, you know?
They love music.
Yeah, they cultivated a very sort of creative and music-loving, obsessive music sort of culture in the household.
Yeah, so they were not, they weren't like, no music. They were just like, are you gonna be able to like, make a living when you're done? And also, how are we gonna pay for this? We're gonna pay for Berklee.
Send you, send you abroad.
Money-related concerns.
Very valid.
Yeah. Well, it's nice to have supportive parents, though.
It's a weird business to get into.
It is.
Yeah. And since I hadn't studied any music in high school or whatever, they were like, are you even good? Like, what do you even mean?
Like, they didn't know?
They didn't know. I wasn't like, I wasn't like, sort of jamming around or anything. I was very secretive and I was very shy. I was just kind of in my bedroom, making my tunes and stuff.
Closed-door musician.
Mm-hmm.
I like that.
It was really, yeah, I wasn't
loud and in the face.
Well, I like that vibe. That's my vibe, too.
It's, I felt a lot of kinship when I listened to your records. I was like, yeah, she gets it. We are similar.
Quiet, chill. That song we were just sort of playing with. Mohabbat.
What is this song? Where did this come from?
This is an old poem and also an old, kind of like a ballad that lots of different, semi-classical and classical and just everybody. This is an old sort of, like, almost like a jazz standard that a lot of people have rendered in their own ways. And it's like a real favorite. It's almost like a, like a cultural treasure.
Oh, cool.
You know, it's one of the, you know, it's like one of those, it's like the song.
I didn't know that, okay.
Yeah, and it kind of, it has sort of traversed generations. It just kind of stays in the, in the real book, you know? It's just sort of really loved. And it was sort of in a period where I felt like people had forgotten about it and it was dwindling. But I have loved it for a really long time. And I have done renditions of it for, I had done like, I had been performing it live in many different iterations of my own with different band settings and sort of thing for like six or seven years.
It had been in the, in my repertoire
before I actually then sat down and made decisions and recorded it. So, yeah, it's that.
It's really pretty.
Yeah, thanks for doing it.
Thanks for doing it.
Yeah, I wanted to do at least one song in Urdu.
In Urdu, yeah.
Yeah. You feel like you kind of do about half and half with language when you're performing? Do you?
I've, I've started to, like, I just, you know, we're just, we're just growing all the time.
Of course.
You know, and, and it's not gonna stop. And there's some, there's some borrowed stuff, like, that's tradition, that's, that is of the tradition, like, this old poem that's Mohabbat or something else that, you know, exists from our ancestors. And then I've been lately, like, last four years, kind of writing my own lyrics in Urdu, just kind of what is my story? What do I actually have to say with my own words? Because at first I was like, whatever I feel and whatever I have to say has already been written so beautifully by these Urdu poets. And so I don't, I can't, I wouldn't even dare to pen the words myself, you know?
So you just started writing more recently?
So then I started, I mean, I've always written my little poems in Urdu and in English, but I haven't been like... Here they are, you know, but now I'm bringing that into the, into the, the mix.
It's also important, I think, like, your personality and your person, and then your performer self, and the music, your music, they're not always like the same, right?
No, not at all.
Sometimes not at all.
But it is good to sort of try to bridge the gap a little from time to time, you know, and then like maybe go back a part again.
And so if I'm this kind of like this, you know, how do I, can I be this in the music? Is kind of the question I'm asking. It's fun. It's a fun exercise to like, where do we go now? We always have this, right? I'm sure you do too, after you do an album. Or like, you're like, here's my nine songs piece, you know, like, and then like, two years later or something, you're like, what are we doing now?
Yeah, exactly.
How did we do that? And how are we gonna do it again?
Yeah, it's like you're on a road and you're making little stops, right?
And then you're moving along.
And so that moving along is like, okay, let's see, let's explore this moment, this situation where you're more, you bring your listeners closer to who you are and your, your... And the language, of course, it's like, you know, we're, we're constantly, I mean, I've been, I've been here for what, like 20 years? There's months go by and I haven't spoken a word or worded anyone.
Yeah, I'm sure.
You know, and we're dreaming in English and we're speaking in English and everything is happening. So I'm like, I, I also have feelings in English.
Let's write them.
You know, and let's get an Norah Jones feature.
Heck yeah, let's do it. Well, you sent me a new song.
I appreciate you.
We should try it.
So this has not been released yet?
No, this hasn't been released yet.
We're outside on a summer night It's just us for a little while And it's easy, but not enough
There's a little corner in your smile That will stay with me for quite a while So easily, but it's not enough
If this is love, I'll take it It's a quiet one, a simple one Just us for a little while, but not enough
Outside on a summer night
It's just us for a little while So easy, but not enough
Your eyes are catching streetlights I'm in awe, and I'm a little surprised And I don't know where home is anymore
If this is love, I'll take it It's a quiet one, a simple one
Yeah, do that, Nora.
First vibes?
I don't know. No, no, I think that's
Is that it?
That's as far as I got.
Oh, I see. So it's a work in progress?
Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like the story is done.
I got you.
But maybe I have to write more.
Maybe.
There's something, yeah.
I love that you brought in a work in progress.
I know, I mean, I wanted, I thought it would be something that sounded like we could do together.
It sounds like a song, maybe it sounds like something that
is your song also.
Let's go outside on a summer night.
And do it.
Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment
that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
When I was upstate a few years ago, every time I would listen to this one radio station, a song of yours would come on. And every time I was like, what is this? I love this.
That's crazy.
Yeah, it made me so happy.
That's so crazy. That's beautiful.
That's nice.
It was made me happy.
I feel like I am not played on the radio, but maybe upstate, yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's like a Woodstock radio.
That tracks.
That tracks. Exactly. And then they played you a lot because I heard it many, many times.
Yeah. Yeah, it made me happy.
That's beautiful.
Yeah. It was the first time I was truly aware of what you're doing. Though, you've known my sister for a really long time.
Yeah, I mean, she came to Berklee to perform her album, Rise.
Oh, that was so long ago.
A long time ago. And she also played with the percussion, the three, I don't know, it was something. She played at the theater and I saw it. And then a friend of mine knew her bassist.
And so then was able to introduce me to her. That's how we met. And that was definitely like a very long time ago.
And you became friends then?
She was nice enough to become friends with just some rando, which was me. She was completely okay. I was not vetted at all.
And I didn't have anything to show for like my musicianship because I was, I had just started. But she was nice and kind and became friends instead of like, that's a fan. We're never seeing that person again.
But don't give that person my personal phone number.
Yeah, she was like, pretty like here and then.
That's cool. She probably felt a kinship with you, as she should. And you guys have collaborated. A lot now, right?
Yeah, and that's kind of a similar feeling that I got from from hanging out with her. She's played, she did a solo, she took a, she took a like bitchin' sitar solo on one of my songs.
That's awesome.
And then I produced one of her chapters. You know how she's got these chapters going on?
Yeah, I did the first one, so.
Is that the one you, did you guys perform at the Grammys?
We did perform in the Grammys.
What did you perform in the Grammys?
That was the song that she had, that she features on. That was a song of mine that she featured on.
Yeah, it was great.
No, it was so important to see someone like Anushka, like when, you know, back in the day, just seeing somebody who looks like me and is kind of a badass and isn't just like either in the yoga meditation world or like the complete classical world. She was doing something really, really bold and innovative, right? Like with her instrument, which is such a classical, like the sitar is like.
It's a hard instrument to fit.
It's like you see that thing and you're just instantly in the Taj Mahal or something, you know what I mean? It's crazy. But yeah, she was being daring, I think, with Rais.
I agree.
And I was, and it really struck me. It was so important to have her, to see that, you know? And then that she was nice and, you know, let me be her friend.
That's great. I remember that time and I think it was a really special moment for her to sort of step out of where she had been brought up in that Indian classical world. And I remember it was really, I felt like she was dying to do stuff because she always listened to other kinds of music. She was always into like crazy music.
All over the map.
And so it was, it was nice to see her sort of step out and find her own thing outside of that world, which is very traditional, you know?
Yeah, and it's like, we were in the studio and I was like, I don't know what happened. I was thinking of some sort of line, like some sort of melody. And, you know, I was like, okay, Anushka, play this. And then she played it. On the sitar and she it's it's like she didn't just play the melody. She played it as Anushka.
And knowing her repertoire like by heart in my sleep, I was just like, oh yeah, it's her.
That's Anushka. She's playing the sitar and that's something really unique and beautiful. And and you, I just feel like when you, when you, when we first heard your voice collectively as humans, we'd never heard that before and it shocked everybody and now and you created a wave of this style, this tone, like, you know, your tone is so unique and now there's like an army of people who sing like Norah Jones, you know, like there it's literally, it's become like a tonal style. You know what I'm talking about, right?
I guess, I mean, I think.
You're sort of a blueprint.
I don't know what I am, but I went to the doctor a few years ago and I realized I have a de- deviated septum. And I was like, oh.
And she's like, I think maybe you shouldn't do anything about it.
What if it changed your voice?
You can't do that.
I was like, is that where I get my tone from, from my deviated septum?
How do you feel about music right now?
In general?
I don't really think about it much. Um.
Are you, are you on a new album writing? Are you always writing?
I'm kind of always dabbling and stuff, but I, yeah, I am working on something new right now.
Isn't it funny? Like anytime you ask a musician, hey, what's new?
The ants, they're all, they're just gonna be like, oh, well, I'm working on my new album.
Yeah, always.
That's just. And like, don't tell me, I don't want to hear about your new album.
Your new album?
Anything else, just say anything else.
Well, I'm working on a musical.
What?
Yeah, it's been pretty wild.
No way.
Yeah. And I'm working on a movie soundtrack, which I've, is something I've never done.
Interesting things.
Yeah, I've never done a score and hopefully it works out unless they scrap it all, but um it's been really fun. And a way to, you know, work at home and not be on tour, you know, I love touring, but you know, you don't want to do too much of it.
What about you? Are you between things? What are you up to right now? Do, are you always touring or do you wait and do album cycle stuff?
I toured a lot these last four years because I I didn't I didn't get my break, my big, my big break. I got my break finally four years ago or something. And so then I've just been like, kind of going deep and riding the wave and just like enjoying tour, like touring heavily and just being a full-time musician. I didn't get to have that for all this whole while. Uh, but now it's been two years since I put out a record. I can't believe that that's true.
And so it's, I guess it's it's time to put out another one. And so I'm touring less this year so that I can actually make a record that does the things, shows the passage of time. I can catch up with how I'm feeling, blah, blah, blah, you know, like the the feelings, the articulation of feeling is kind of important. Um, and all the new, if you want to do something, I could make another record on the same way that I have, but I want to see what's next a little bit without breaking.
It completely. Um, so yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play less, which is sad because I like it.
Do you ever play locally because you live in New York?
Yeah, I just did a Blue Note residency.
Uh, in, yeah.
How long?
It was four nights.
Were you exhausted because it's two shows a night, right?
Yeah. Uh, it was really exhausting. I had come off, I had come off like an eleven or twelve shows with an, with the Metropole Orchestra in the Netherlands and just like.
Fun.
Landed in New York after that. And those were back to back and then just like got here and then the next day was the Blue Note stuff. So, yeah, I was like really tired.
But it was so fun. It's Blue Note, it's New York, it's like, it's where we're, it's where we are, it's where we are from.
And you get to go home at night.
And you can go home.
The two shows thing is pretty intense, though.
It is, I did it, um, I did it with Robert Glasper.
A couple of years ago, I did five nights, I think.
Because you guys went to Bandcamp.
We did, we went Bandcamp together.
This is actually a thing.
And, you know, he does it every year, he does like a month there.
I don't know how he does a month.
He's like, how many, I was like, how many days you want me to do? And he's like, well, the whole week would be great. And I was like, uh, how about five days?
Did you do that when?
I did it a couple of years ago.
Okay, a couple of years ago. Because I was like, where was I if you were doing five days?
Maybe twenty twenty-four and, um, I, by the fir-, second night, I was like, what did I sign up for? I'm so tired, this is insane.
Well, I'm like not. Used to it.
It's kind of the wait in between the sets is also insane.
It's hard to wait between the sets. And then by the fourth night, I was having a ball and I was totally in the groove.
Yeah, I was like, we're just gonna be very straight about this and we're gonna do this perfectly, beautifully, and it's just gonna be like, just super professional and amazing, even though we're tired and the Blue Note, you know, it's like old and blah, blah, blah, like sound is, it's just kind of like a wildcat situation.
It's a strange sounding room. It's like rectangle.
And then at some point, the 10:30 shows were definitely like a little looser and more fun. And then it's like, third night, 10:30 show, I was like, you know what? Just give me the tequila. I never drink, like, I can barely, you're not supposed, you're gonna get drunk on stage. It's terrible. You know, it's like, not, not the vibe, but yeah, it was like, okay, I don't care. Just give me the tequila.
Well, I think at a club show like that, if you, if you drink, it's really hard to not drink on the second set, a little bit.
Or like between the set, just a little bit.
It's like, there's so much.
Not saying you should drink.
Yeah, nobody should do that. Please drink responsibly. But yeah, and then at some point, I, I found myself talking about my cat in between songs. And I was like, you are drunk. I was like, what am I sick?
Was it your favorite show?
I think so. Yeah, I was like, yo.
Did you record the shows?
The shows are recorded.
Did you hear it back?
Was it still your favorite when you listened back or you just had the most fun?
I can't listen to them all. It's too crazy.
I know.
I listened to like, yeah, I scrubbed through one taping and I was like, okay, I've had enough. We're not releasing this.
Oh, yeah. If somebody else, if somebody else goes through it and picks the best stuff, it's a lot easier.
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I feel like I saw you play with Robert in L.A., one of these Grammy times.
Oh, yeah, yeah. And Anushka was there.
Yeah, we were together to that.
That was fun.
That was the year that, it was funny, because you, I think you had spoken to me in the elevator in 2006. And then the three of us were backstage at the Grammys. And then, and we kind of had shared dressing rooms.
And then all three of us came back to the dressing room. We had all lost, all three of us had lost our categories. And I said, what's up, losers?
Yeah, that's right.
And you were like, you're cool. And that was it, that's the only.
With the losers, you're cool. That's the only thing we said to each other. We didn't go out and eat or anything.
No, I ran away, you know, I was like, I've become kind of like a, I just, if, yeah.
What do you think? Do you like music right now?
I like, I like some music right now.
What are you into right now?
I think, isn't it, hasn't it gone like really pop?
I mean, I feel like the only music I'm aware of lately is pop music.
Because it's maybe because I have kids and they listen to some stuff, but they, they don't really. All the time. But yeah, I feel like pop music is huge right now.
This, this.
And it's really good.
And it's really good, yeah. Doing, like, having to prepare a song that isn't mine or yours that I know by heart, and just someone else's that is more current, has made me realize that, like, I should pay more attention and not be such a little grouch, you know? Because I'm just like, I don't listen to music when I'm writing my own album, and I don't, I don't listen to this.
Oh, you don't?
I try, no, yeah, it's because I, you know, you can get confused with what you like.
I feel like inspires me.
But like during?
Like when you're locked in, you're listening to other stuff?
I don't ever feel that locked in. I'm like a compartmentalized mouse, always looking for cheese in different corners. I mean, I'm like, you know, doing kid drop off, and then meditation, and then, you know, I gotta go work on this, and then I gotta go work on this. I'm always completely all over the place.
That makes sense, you, that's cool, if you can do that.
It's not great.
Well, you know, there's been a lot of, there's like, you know, how people are like, well, what's your reference for the song you, that, that we haven't written yet? And I, I hate that, I'm just like, that, I don't, no.
Well, that's a real, like, a song collaboration thing that I've never experienced until recently, and I'm like, oh, that's how people do stuff?
I know, I was really.
That's why all these songs sound like other songs.
Yeah, I was like, no way, absolutely not, we're not doing that.
Yeah, let's just play.
Let's just play.
Yeah. Do you write a lot with other people?
I have like my sort of collaborators that I've known for a long time, and now I am branching out a little bit and collaborating with people that I don't know at all. And so things like this are coming up, like producers that I, you know, just walk into the room with, because the publisher set it up, or, or musicians that I've just heard of and I haven't spent any time with. So it's a little scary, but it's been kind of cool. It's been mostly kind of great.
Good.
Because it's reminding me a lot of the fact that I know what I want. You can forget that.
Because you're just with the same OG homies that you play with and and we all kind of know, we can read each other's minds because we've been playing together for like decades. But then you walk in a room with somebody who doesn't know at all what you want. And then you're telling them and you've got the language and you've got the groove going. And you're like, oh, yeah, OK, we know how to do this.
Yeah, it's like you're still speaking the same language. You just have different angles, right?
It's a little reassuring and it's a little it's a little bit scary to see like like industry, songwriting, tech, like whatever the people are doing, like the reference track thing.
It's cool. It's good. It's we just keep learning.
We do, but so often I feel like if you have a reference, once you're to the finish line of your song, it's it's like a it's totally different from what the reference was, you know? It's more like just a diving off point.
Sometimes.
For some people.
But I like I like Billie Eilish. Her songwriting is cool, I think. And I and like learning her song, I was like, because I was like, yeah, we can do that one. It's just piano and singing and it's gonna be fine. It's so easy. And then when I like started to sing it, I was like, oh, this is actually complicated.
It's a great song.
It's so good.
I was so excited when you said this song.
Yeah. Did you watch the movie? Did you like it?
The Barbie movie?
Yeah, I watched it with my my daughter had already seen it and she asked me to watch it with her one night, just the two of us. It was so cute. It was great. And when the song came on, I was just like, well. But I already knew the song because it had already been out for a while.
OK.
But I couldn't believe how beautiful it worked with the film.
So nice.
I also felt that it was so great that they did that as opposed to just some Barbie.
Like a pop song?
Like a a fast song?
A fast, a fast pop plasticky, literally, song. It was this emotional, sort of introspective, kind of depressing take.
So sad.
And they were like, let's do that.
And it's so beautiful. It's so like universal.
And I feel like.
Like how women really feel.
Let's go there.
And I also was reading.
I don't know if this is true, but I feel like I remember seeing an article or something with Billie Eilish, and she was saying how she was, you know, not really writing in a zone where she wasn't writing so much and not sure what she was gonna do. And then the song just kind of fell out. As it, you know, and the movie had inspired it so much that it just sort of fell out. And that's just, you can just feel it when a song is truly from the heart, right? Yeah, I feel like that.
Yeah, and they kept it that way also, I think. You, yeah, like she just kind of went to the piano and just was doing this thing.
Yeah, it's pretty. Do you want to sing the song?
Should we do it?
Shall we try it?
I used to float Now I just fall down I used to know But I'm not sure now What I was made for
What was I made for?
Taking a drive I was an ideal Looked so alive Turns out I'm not real Just something you paid for
Cause I I I don't know How to feel But I want to try
I don't know How to feel But someday I might But someday I
When did it end? All the enjoyment? I'm sad again. Don't tell my boyfriend. It's not what he's made for.
Cause I, I, I don't know how to feel. But I'll try.
I don't know how to feel. But someday I might. Someday I might.
Think I forgot how to be happy. Something I'm not, but something I can be. Something I wait for.
Something I'm made for.
I love that song.
That was pretty.
I love singing with you.
I know, and your voice is perfect for this song, I feel like. But I feel like I still thought it sounded like you.
That's the trick with covering a song, especially one that's so popular. So you just want to kind of copy the person covering it.
But you also want to make it your own.
So I think we did our job.
I think we have really distinct, we've kind of, we know what we sound like in a way.
Yeah, but it's so hard to not just want to sound like her.
She's so pretty, but I'm glad we put it down a little bit so that it's not in the same range.
Yeah, Billy, you're crazy.
Billy, you're so good.
That's high.
Well, she's also very young, and I feel like her voice hasn't, you know.
It hasn't.
Dropped.
Dropped. It's like, I feel like we're just becoming, this is, I say things in interviews and then my people are like, "Oh, my God, she's just like a bee's dick away from getting canceled all the time."
Wait.
I was gonna say.
Did you just say a bee's dick?
Yes, and I shouldn't have even said that.
Okay, I've never heard that expression before.
You know what I mean? It's like so close.
No, I get it, but I just had to make sure I heard you right.
Are we, yeah, but what I was trying, what I was gonna, I was gonna say, like, as we get older, we're just like sort of morphing into becoming men, you know?
Yeah, I know, our voices keep dropping.
Which I don't mind, I feel like maybe that's the ultimate, like, for being a woman for all of our lives. And in the end, it's like, okay, now you get to be a man.
In the end, you get to be a man, you get to grow mustache.
And a beard, a full beard. It's like an invasion.
This is just so nice talking to you and being here and jamming with you. What a gift. You're also like, you invite people to come over and hang out with you, which is a gift.
Well, thanks for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
You asked if we could do one of my songs.
Sunrise.
Awesome.
And this, and I woke up this morning, like, I was having a dream that I was looking at all the old episodes of your podcast and that you had done Sunrise with every single artist. And I was like, oh my god. This was literally what I was dreaming.
That's very funny.
And I was like, oh my god. You know, because that's a lot of pressure. And then I thought, did you know that Arooj Aftab literally means sunrise?
No, I didn't know that. Really?
So that's cool.
That is cool.
So when that song, when you first heard that song, did you think it was for you?
I just thought about it today after the traumatic dream about Sunrise. Then I was like, oh, positive. What's positive? And I was like, oh, no. When Sunrise came out, we were like, I was listening to it obsessively all the time, you know.
Aww.
Uh, and I'm like, there's a lot of nostalgia lately for, like, where did my Discman go?
You know, we never said goodbye. It's just one day where it's now.
Yeah, and then you have to like, check your texts before you play a song and then you forget that you just want to play music and then you get lost in your phone.
But this song has been my friend for a really long time.
Yeah, so I.
I have a question. It's a selfish question. Um, can you tell me what you think of this song? Um, no, um, do you think of this song as a country song? Because I always kind of thought of it as a little bit of a country song. I was just wondering if that registered at all.
Not at all?
Not at all. I never thought of it as a country song.
I thought it was like a really sexy song. And then today, for the first time also in my life, I saw the music video.
Oh, it's so dorky.
What is going on?
Dork town, yeah.
What are you guys fishing for?
I don't know. It was just, you know.
Because I thought this was like a in bed after situation.
Kind of.
I don't know. That was my second record and I just got a bunch of video treatments and I picked one that I thought was fun.
I mean, it's cool.
Yeah. And all my friends were in it, my band and some friends. And my friends were in the tree with. Brown paint on their face, probably not a good thing in hindsight.
I liked it a lot.
Very weird.
I liked the video a lot.
Yeah, but it was, I was like, oh, is this like not, it's not a playful sexy song? I don't know, but you know.
It's whatever you want it to be.
Well, it's definitely not, it didn't give me country. I really like the way it starts, the intro is amazing, the bassline is amazing.
I had this great guitar player back then, um, his name is Kevin Bright, he's Canadian. And, um, anything he played just sounded cool, so, yeah.
And then my selfish question is, have you played this with other people a lot?
I don't think I've played this one with anyone that I can think of, actually.
That's so strange.
Yeah, I usually play Come Away With Me or Don't Know Why with other people, if they want to play something.
So you're the first, maybe?
That's what I wanted to hear.
It's you and the sunrise.
Sunrise, sunrise, looks like morning in your eyes. But the clock's held nine fifteen for hours.
Sunrise, sunrise, couldn't tempt us if it tried. Cause the afternoon's already come and gone. And I said, ooh.
Ooh.
Ooh. To you.
Surprise, surprise Couldn't find it in your eyes But I'm sure it's written all over my face
Surprise, surprise Never something I could hide When I see we made it through another day And I said, "Ooh"
Ooh
To you
And now the night Will throw its cover down
On me again
Ooh, and if I'm right
Is the only way To bring me back
Awesome. Sick. Yay. Yeah. That was fun.
Thanks for listening to the show. Oh, my God, I love her.
She's so funny.
She's really funny.
A bee's dick.
I've never.
She's very unsuspectingly hilarious.
Never thought about a bee's dick before.
Now it's part of my everyday conversation.
I'm thinking about. Thanks for listening to the show. If you want to know what songs we played in today's episode. The first song we did was called Mahabhat and it's an Urdu gazal written by Havi's Hashi Apuri and recorded by Arooj on her album Vulture Prince from 2021.
The second song we did was called So Easy and it is unreleased, but will be coming out soon, maybe? The third song we did was What Was I Made For?, the Billie Eilish classic song from the motion picture Barbie, released in 2023. The fourth song we did was one of mine called Sunrise from Feels Like Home, which came out in 2004. And it was written by myself and my bass player, Lee Alexander. Special thanks to Arooj Fatab for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Ron Carter and Bill Frizzell. Norah Jones is playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones.
This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Frye. Photography by Chervin Linaz and Sam Balaban. Produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Aaron Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead Allison Cantor-Graeber.
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