Allison Russell

GRAMMY-winning singer-songwriter, actor, and human rights advocate Allison Russell joins Norah for a conversation about their shared musical inspirations.

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  This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Allison Russell.

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  Hi, I'm Nora. This is Sarah.

• 2:02Speaker 05

  Welcome to the show. Today, we have Grammy-winning singer-songwriter, actor, multi-instrumentalist, and human rights advocate, Allison Russell. In 2024, she made her Broadway debut starring as Persephone in the Tony-winning musical Hadestown.

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  I saw it. She was amazing.

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  She released her new EP, Rainbows, earlier this year. And just last week, she released her third studio album called "In the Hour of Chaos", which also features a song that you collaborated with her on called "Really Real."

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  Yes, we do that song in the episode today. And I think I recorded it with her right after we recorded this episode. I first met her when we were on Willie Nelson's 90th birthday celebration at the Hollywood Bowl. We sang "Seven Spanish Angels" together, which was one of my favorites.

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  I love that song.

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  One of my favorite duets to do with her.

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  Yeah, that song was so beautiful. I love that song. It's so good.

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  Yeah.

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  She's going to be on tour with Sarah McLachlan in July and August. And then she's going to start her headline tour in October. So be sure to find tickets and check her out.

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  Yes. This episode's really fun. We do a really special cover at the end, so I hope you enjoy it.

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  There is some spicy language in this episode, so listener discretion is advised. It's not that bad, but just so you know, it's there.

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  All right. Super lover.

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  Tears and rage, tears of grief. Palestine, Israel, to Tennessee. We need a super love. Need a super lover. Double dutch and hula hoops. All our fears in loops and loops. We need a super love. Are you a super lover all night? So cold. Who are my last dreams, the dawn? Who dreamt us and now we have the gun?

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  Who keeps a candle lit for their return?

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  Who could count the flowers in your heart?

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  Please let me die before my child prayed every mother far and wide that's a super love I'm a super lover

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  you can hear it near and far it fades the moon and blinds the stars that's a super love we are super lovers The nights, oh, so cold Nights so cold Who are mother's dreams at dawn?

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  Who dreams us and all have they gone?

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  Who keeps the candle lit for their return?

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  Who could count the flowers in your heart?

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  Believe what you will, believe they're gonna tell you It's naive to be a super lover But we are super lovers There's no god, a fire and blood If there's a god, then god is love We need a super love We can be super lovers The night, so cold

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  Who among us dreams the dawn?

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  Who dreamt us and now they have they gone?

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  Who keeps the candle lit for their eternity?

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  Who could count the flowers in your heart?

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  Tears of rage, tears of grief Palestine, Israel to Tennessee Tears of rage, tears of grief Sudan, Congo to Haiti Tears of rage, tears of grief Ukraine to Tibet to DC We need a super love

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  We can be super lovers

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  It was beautiful.

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  That was so pretty. Oh my God, I love that song.

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  Thank you.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  That's so beautiful.

• 8:39Speaker 06

  It's such a joy to sing it with you. It's such an honor.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 8:44Speaker 06

  Truly, to hear you on it, it's so beautiful. It sounds so beautiful.

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  Thank you. That's my new song.

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  Yes, the version with Annie Lennox is gonna... I don't know when this comes out.

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  This'll come out after that, for sure.

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  After that, yeah.

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  It's coming out soon, like in a few weeks, right?

• 8:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, March 25th.

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  So Annie Lennox sings on the recording?

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  Yeah.

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  That is amazing.

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  It was so thrilling.

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  She sounds so good.

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  Doesn't she sound extraordinary?

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  She sounds amazing.

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  She sounds extraordinary.

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  Did you get to record together?

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  You know, we recorded that separately, but we got to sing it together. We did a little video for it.

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  Oh, wow.

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  So we got to sing it together, you know, for this video. And, I mean, it's the recording, but we got to sing it live in the room together.

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  That's amazing. I bet her voice in a room acoustically is insane.

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  She sounds so beautiful, you know, and I got to know her and to meet her through Joni Jem. So because of my, our beautiful sister, Brandy Carlisle, who is a magical unicorn of goodness and joy and has brought so much just magic into my life and my family's life.

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  She brings the people together.

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  She really does. She really does, and she's super intuitive and she's very like mischievous and funny.

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  Yeah.

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  So she did not, when I met Annie was actually, we did Joni Jem at The Gorge. This was in...

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  We're tacking Joni Mitchell here.

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  Joni Mitchell, yeah, Joni Mitchell. We did, the first one that we did was at Newport and it was, that was like, it was a surprise Joni Mitchell closing set at Newport. And that was in 22, I think.

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  I remember seeing that.

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  Yeah, it was, it was, it was the most magical, incredible thing. And Joni had so much fun that she wanted to do another show. So we, the next thing that we did was The Gorge. And, and I am lucky enough to, in Joni Mitchell's band, I play clarinet and I sing backups.

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  How fun.

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  And it's so much fun. And I'm the only other Canadian, actually.

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  Oh, really?

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  In the Joni Jem regular.

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  That's right.

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  Sarah McLachlan has joined us a couple of times, but she's not, she's not there always. And this particular one at the gorge, Brandy, we always rehearse, the whole band rehearses before Joni gets there, just to make sure like we have it together when she gets there. So it sounds great when she arrives and she doesn't get exhausted doing things over and over again. And Brandy will sing Joni's parts and her parts.

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  Which is probably awesome.

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  Yeah, it's incredible. And she impersonates Joni beautifully.

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  Sure.

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  But she said, okay, you're gonna sit back here with Annie and Sarah. And I was like, okay, cool. And I assumed they were like Joni's nurses aides, or maybe like occupational therapists, because at Joni Jam, we make the stage look as much like Joni's living room as we can. And like, her friends come, sometimes her, some of her family members sit on stage, or some of her caregivers sit on stage, just so she's comfortable.

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  Yeah, Annie and Sarah.

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  And I'm like, okay, cool, Annie and Sarah. And we're in rehearsal, and then out walks Annie Lennox and Sarah McLachlan. And I look over at Brandy, and she's kind of smirking at me, you know, like knows how completely undone I am, because these are two of my biggest musical heroes.

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  That's so beautiful.

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  Yeah. But then Annie and I became buds, you know?

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  She seems like a cool person.

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  She's so lovely.

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  Is she?

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  She's so lovely. And she's so grounded and funny and, and loves, she feels the same way, you know, for, for, for Brandy and I, and I don't know if this is like this for you, but Joni is such a north star as a writer, as, you know, how to be sort of fearless and a truth teller. And it's the same for Annie. Annie heard Joni for the first time when she was 19. And it was Ladies of the Canyon, you know, someone brought it home to her. She was laughing, talking about living in this, living in total poverty and with eight roommates, and someone brought home this record.

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  Wow.

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  And it was revelatory to her. And suddenly she was like, I'm gonna write songs.

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  So she was as giddy as you were.

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  She was as giddy as I was.

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  So you were kind of leveled.

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  We were, we were, but we were like, I'm in awe of her, but we're both in awe of Joni. So we're like, okay, there you go.

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  What a special thing.

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  Yeah.

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  Yeah, I watched some of that online. It was so beautiful.

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  So, so, so joyful. And Joni's having so much fun.

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  Well, I think that's, when you get older, I think that's what keeps. Keeps you going.

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  Yeah.

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  You gotta do something fun.

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  You gotta do fun things.

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  And people will talk about retiring, but I think for musicians.

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  There's no such thing.

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  Bad move.

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  There's no such thing.

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  Yeah.

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  And for her, it really like, it's been such a big part of her recovery. It's been such a motivator.

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  Yeah, it's a motivator and it helps people make it.

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  Yeah.

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  To a goal.

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  Yeah.

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  And.

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  So true.

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  And so special. She sounded so.

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  Incredible.

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  Good.

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  She's getting, every time we do it, she gets stronger and it's throughout the show. I mean, I remember at Newport, none of us knew, you know, if she would be able to sing through the set. Everyone was ready to kind of sing to her, like the way the Joni Jam started, were really people gathering in her living room and singing to her, you know, to show just their love of of her and her songs. And it, and you know, Brandy's talked about how nerve wracking it was, like the, like singing Joni to Joni.

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  Yeah, of course.

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  And.

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  But it's what got it started.

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  That's what started it. And then she started singing more and people would present their songs to her and, you know, like I've, I've gotten to be in Joni's living room. And she's been like, play me a song. And you know, I have to like play one of my songs to her and it's terrifying, you know, you're like.

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  But how cool.

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  It's so fun.

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  And it becomes more normalized and just sort of like a community.

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  Yeah, a community and it, and she got, she just gained strength from it. And you, you see, you hear it throughout the show. I mean, at Newport, there's a record of that, you know, it was, it's Joni Live at Newport and she won her, she won a Grammy for that. And a folk, best folk album Grammy. And, but you can hear her gaining strength throughout the show.

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  Yeah.

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  You know, and she loves, it's such circle work with the audience and she's delighting in it. She's delighting in the interaction with the audience. She's delighting in the interactions with the other musicians on stage. And she's gaining strength from it. And I hear that from performance to performance as well. And by the time we did Hollywood Bowl last year, we did two nights and she played three hours each night.

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  What?

• 14:43Speaker 06

  She was leading the band. She was changing setlists up until.

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  Oh, wow.

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  Like half an hour before.

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  She's still Joni.

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  And she was singing lead on everything. Like it went from other people kind of sharing lead with her to her, like she's in charge.

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  That's amazing.

• 14:58Speaker 06

  And we're following her. And she was doing like Magdalen laundries and.

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  I love that song.

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  Deep cuts from her own catalog that she was choosing because she felt like it in the moment, you know.

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  Is she able to play guitar anymore?

• 15:09Speaker 06

  Yes, she started playing again. And she started playing piano again.

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  That's amazing.

• 15:13Speaker 06

  And actually, she started, she relearned how to play, you know, just like this train, watching herself on YouTube. She was like, I had to figure out, had to watch herself play guitar. How did I do that? I did it this way.

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  Can you imagine having to really learn everything?

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  It's incredible. I mean, she had to learn how to walk and talk again.

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  Yeah, I don't know if I, like, you don't think you can do that.

• 15:34Speaker 06

  But then you do. Like, I think you would. I think if you experienced an aneurysm like she did and had to come back from it, you would. And it would be music that called you back too, because that's what, that's what calls a musician back.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  I know, it does. It's beautiful.

• 15:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

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• 18:13Speaker 00

  Please tell me about your instrument.

• 18:15Speaker 06

  This is a banjo and it's a Deering Good Time Americana Banjo. So it's got, I think it's like a 13 inch head, but I have converted it to make it sound as much like a minstrel fretless banjo as I can.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 18:30Speaker 06

  So it's got like a kilo now gut strings.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 06

  And this is, it's a banjo head to make it sound as much like, you know, goat skin as it can, but it's actually synthetic because of course I tour and I go through different temperatures and altitudes and all of that, so.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  And you like to put it through the amp always?

• 18:48Speaker 06

  I do. I put it through usually a Fender Princeton reverb because I'm always trying to make it sound as much like Pop Staples guitar as I can, which is like a completely failing project, but I, nonetheless, I attempted.

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  I think it's a worthy goal.

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  It's my goal.

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  That's incredible.

• 19:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

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  I had Mavis Staples on the podcast and she told me a really funny story about Pop Staples meeting Elvis for the first time, for the only time, I think. And Elvis said, oh, hey, yeah, I like you. You got that nervous guitar.

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  It's so great.

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  Isn't that funny?

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  The nervous guitar.

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  That's how we describe his guitar.

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  The treble, the like, that's the.

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  I always said that was so funny.

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  So beautiful.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Well, I love it. I love the sound of it. It also has a Willie vibe with the nylon strings through the amp.

• 19:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Willie Nelson with his, his nylon string guitar through the amp.

• 19:38Speaker 06

  Trigger.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 06

  I love. Yeah, there's something about the more harmonic overtones I can sort of chase around, the happier I am.

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  Yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 06

  So, yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 19:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  Are you excited about your new album?

• 19:53Speaker 06

  I, I am. And, I mean, I'm always excited to put new music out into the world and to have excuses to collaborate with people and.

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  Are there a lot of collaborations on that album?

• 20:05Speaker 06

  There's some collaborations and there's, you know, I'm always collaborating with my ensemble. I mean, we loosely call ourselves the Rainbow Coalition, which is, yes, definitely a nod to the Black Panthers and the Young Lords and the Young Patriots of the 60s collaborating and harm-reducing together in Chicago and around the world eventually. But it's always the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, you know? It's always very much, I'm never telling anyone what to play. I wouldn't dream of it, you know? I'm so lucky, like Wendy and Lisa are on this record.

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  Oh, beautiful.

• 20:40Speaker 06

  You know, you're gonna be on this record.

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  Yeah, I'm gonna sing.

• 20:42Speaker 06

  Yeah. And on this record and some other fun guests and it's, it's always just, that's my favorite part of making music is the collaboration and what happens that you couldn't imagine on your own and you could never, you could never dictate it, it just has to happen.

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  Same here. It's my favorite part.

• 21:02Speaker 06

  And I love that, that's my favorite part.

• 21:03Speaker 00

  That's why I'm so bad at practicing.

• 21:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

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  Because I.

• 21:07Speaker 06

  You can't practice that.

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  It's boring.

• 21:09Speaker 06

  It's boring, totally.

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  I just wanna be with somebody, doing it, you know?

• 21:13Speaker 06

  I'm the same.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  Are you?

• 21:17Speaker 06

  I feel the same way. I, you know, I will do things like I'll practice, lately I've been trying to practice my clarinet to get better at like, I don't know, translating what I hear through my, because it's always the thing of like, make your hands do what your mind imagines, you know?

• 21:31Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 21:32Speaker 06

  So, or, or just breath control, you know, practice long tones. I've been trying to be more disciplined about. Practicing my clarinet sometimes, you know, but similar, I'm.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  But what do you do? Do you play scales and do exercises?

• 21:44Speaker 06

  You know what? I will play along with music that I like.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a great idea.

• 21:48Speaker 06

  I'm not great at just practicing. I should just practice scales. And I'm, you know, I'm an illiterate musician. I'm trying to learn to read music now belatedly.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 21:57Speaker 06

  I do everything by ear. So I've been trying to practice reading a little bit.

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  How do you think that's gonna help you? Do you think you're gonna start reading charts and like playing along to other things? Or do you wanna write more?

• 22:08Speaker 06

  I think I wanna be better at communicating with musicians who are more used to reading.

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  I understand that.

• 22:14Speaker 06

  Instead of being like, you know, it kinda sounds purple.

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  Just gonna say that example exactly.

• 22:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, be able to be like, it's a suspended this chord with the duh duh duh. You know, like actually say what it is instead of my.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  I do understand that.

• 22:28Speaker 06

  You know, la la speak like, so I do wanna get better. And I do wanna write a symphony at some point.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Really?

• 22:34Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah. I have a whole idea for it.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 22:37Speaker 06

  It will be called The Spring of Writes. And, and, and I have, I have all kinds of ideas for it, but I wanna be able to write it myself. So I'm gonna have to get, I'm gonna have to learn how to, how to use that language.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  I think that's incredible. And, and I think your ideas are enough. And you can get an assistant to help you notate it. I'm just gonna put that out there.

• 23:00Speaker 06

  That's true too. I could do that.

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  I do think that's okay and acceptable.

• 23:04Speaker 06

  Maybe I'll do both. I'll work on it while also having someone that really knows what they're doing.

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  And you'll learn about notation in the process. But I can't think of anything more difficult than notating a whole.

• 23:15Speaker 06

  It's hard.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 23:17Speaker 06

  I can imagine it's hard. But I, I, I'm also trying to demystify it for myself. Like I can learn. We do, we play music.

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  We have to keep learning.

• 23:25Speaker 06

  We're already doing it. It's just, you know, writing it down. And I think about it as, you know, my grandma was a teacher, my maternal grandmother. And she got really into working on adult literacy in her later years. And, and I think about that. I think about adults that never learned to read or write and how intimidating that must be. But like you, but you can do it, you know?

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:45Speaker 06

  And I feel that way about music. Like I never learned to write it, but I could.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  You could do it.

• 23:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. But do you have a hang up about it?

• 23:54Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  OK, you don't need to.

• 23:55Speaker 06

  A thousand percent.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  I'm just here to, I want to release you from that.

• 23:59Speaker 06

  From the hang up?

• 23:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 06

  Well, it's like I never went to college either, so I have a hang up about it. I'm like, I'm undereducated.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I understand that, but don't.

• 24:07Speaker 06

  Like, let it go. Let it go.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Hug that hang up and hang it after dry.

• 24:13Speaker 06

  Let it fly.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 06

  Let it go.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  Let it go.

• 24:18Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Well, do you want to do another song from your new record?

• 24:24Speaker 06

  We can.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Do you feel like it?

• 24:26Speaker 06

  Should we try?

• 24:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would love to try this one.

• 24:28Speaker 06

  OK.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  So, full disclaimer, this is the song I'm gonna put a vocal on.

• 24:32Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  But not right now.

• 24:34Speaker 06

  Not right, later, later.

• 24:37Speaker 06

  You're like...

• 24:39Speaker 06

  And this is one, and full disclaimer, I never play this one on banjo, so I was like practicing it this morning.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 06

  Do I, do I know how to do this?

• 24:46Speaker 00

  Do you want to tune again? I feel like we slipped a little.

• 24:48Speaker 06

  I probably should. Almost, almost always, the banjo is always a problem. Now I know, now I'm gonna not mess up our ending.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  I'm gonna look at you more.

• 24:57Speaker 06

  OK. And I'm gonna look at you more.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know, I'm following you.

• 25:01Speaker 06

  OK. We're following each other.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  I'm gonna follow you.

• 25:04Speaker 06

  I will follow you, follow you wherever you may go.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 25:39Speaker 06

  You never alright Been through all the lows and highs And you never spoke of nothing but the truth

• 25:54Speaker 06

  When the truth was so cold

• 26:01Speaker 06

  You held me by the firelight for me Let me sleep easy till the morning Where's your way back to fair green and real world?

• 26:16Speaker 06

  Who's gonna be your shelter from the storm?

• 26:23Speaker 06

  Don't forget one day they're gonna need some

• 26:30Speaker 06

  They're gonna need a little shelter on their own

• 26:54Speaker 06

  Well, I don't know how to pray love

• 27:01Speaker 06

  So I write these songs for you

• 27:08Speaker 06

  I've been drunk while you sleep You put all that weight on me And you never see my integral mood When my eyes grow so tired Will you take the wheel away from me? Let me sleep easy till the morning Where's your way back to fair green and real world?

• 27:45Speaker 06

  Who's gonna be your shelter from the storm?

• 27:52Speaker 04

  Don't forget one day they're gonna need some. They're gonna need a little shelter of their own.

• 28:22Speaker 04

  Where's your way back to that really, really world?

• 28:29Speaker 04

  Who's gonna be a shelter from the storm?

• 28:37Speaker 04

  Don't forget one day they're gonna need some.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  They're gonna need a little shelter of their own.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  Where's your way back to that really, really world?

• 28:59Speaker 04

  Who's gonna be a shelter from the storm?

• 29:07Speaker 04

  Don't forget one day they're gonna need some.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  They're gonna need a little shelter of their own.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  I loved it.

• 29:35Speaker 06

  I loved it too.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Oh, that's fun to play.

• 29:39Speaker 06

  That was fun.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, that would be fun to play in front of an audience together someday.

• 29:43Speaker 06

  We're gonna do it one day. And then when we do it in front of the audience, in my dream, you take the first verse.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Ooh, the first verse.

• 29:51Speaker 06

  Is that crazy?

• 29:52Speaker 00

  No, no, I mean, I was thinking the second verse, but I'm into the-

• 29:56Speaker 06

  We can do the bit if you prefer.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  I'm into the first verse.

• 29:58Speaker 06

  You can do whichever, honestly.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  Well, you've seen me in my power. I love that. That's cool.

• 30:03Speaker 06

  I was imagining you taking the first verse and then I would take second verse.

• 30:06Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 30:08Speaker 06

  Just to switch it up.

• 30:09Speaker 00

  That's so cool. We got to sing together only once at the Willie Nelson-

• 30:14Speaker 06

  Yes, that was so much fun.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, the 90th.

• 30:16Speaker 06

  I know, we met on sta- we basically met on stage.

• 30:18Speaker 00

  We met at Soundcheck.

• 30:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, at Soundcheck.

• 30:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it was so special to hang with you that night.

• 30:23Speaker 06

  I loved it.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  It was so much fun and we did that, one of my favorite tunes that he did with Ray Charles.

• 30:28Speaker 06

  Seven Spanish Angels and you were Ray Charles and I was Willie Nelson.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  Yes, that's what was so fun about it. We got to play them.

• 30:35Speaker 06

  It was so fun and I'll never forget the audience freaking out when you sang the Texas line.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, of course, and I'm from Texas.

• 30:41Speaker 06

  I know, so it was perfect. It was beautiful.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  And they threw that out at the last second.

• 30:46Speaker 06

  They did, very last second.

• 30:47Speaker 00

  It was like the night before.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  It was the night before. They were like, oh, we need someone to do, do you two want to do this?

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was so excited.

• 30:54Speaker 06

  I was thrilled, Nora, I was thrilled because I have loved your music for, since you've been putting it out, since your first record that I became aware of in 2003. You might have put out ones before it, but-

• 31:05Speaker 00

  It came out in 2002, but it got-

• 31:06Speaker 06

  Oh, it was 2002, okay.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  It got big, it was like a slow burn, so it got big in 2003.

• 31:10Speaker 06

  I feel like I got it in 2003 and that was the year my first baby band, Poe Girl, like, put out our first record too.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 31:18Speaker 06

  And, but you were a huge inspiration to us. Yeah, yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  Well, I, I was in Woodstock a few summers ago and I, I was listening to the radio a lot and they played Night Flyer.

• 31:29Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  So much and every time it came out, I was just like, ah, I felt good driving.

• 31:36Speaker 06

  Makes me so happy.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was my first sort of awareness.

• 31:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  Even though we have, seems that we have many mutual friends for way back.

• 31:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, but that's always the way, like, I feel like these overlapping circles, it just takes time sometimes to come around and like,

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 06

  meet each other and I love that we got to meet like onstage, basically, at Willie's 90th birthday party at the Hollywood Bowl, like, oh, joyful.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  And I was so bummed to miss the show the other night. Do you want to talk about that show a little bit?

• 32:06Speaker 06

  Oh, Tibet House?

• 32:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:08Speaker 06

  I mean, it's such a beautiful, this was the 38th annual fundraiser for Tibet House US. And they do it at Carnegie Hall every year in early March.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  I've been aware of it for so long.

• 32:20Speaker 06

  It's so lovely. Patti Smith's band is the house band for it every year.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 32:25Speaker 06

  Which is just so lovely. And they have, you know, all the horn players from Sex Mob came.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Oh, I know those guys for years.

• 32:33Speaker 06

  Yes, they were all there.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 32:36Speaker 06

  And it was a really gorgeous lineup, you know, obviously Patti Smith, but Tenzin Choygol, who's like an incredible Tibetan musician, he brought a whole Tibetan kids choir this year.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 32:47Speaker 06

  And TuneYards came, and Orville Peck, and, oh my gosh, there were so many beautiful artists.

• 32:54Speaker 00

  I saw Michael Stipe was there.

• 32:55Speaker 06

  Michael Stipe, oh my gosh.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  I just love him so much.

• 32:58Speaker 06

  He was incredible.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  He's so nice, too.

• 33:00Speaker 06

  He's such a lovely man. And he was like, he just watched everybody from side stage all night. He was enjoying everyone's performances all night and being so supportive of all the other artists.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  That's so sweet.

• 33:11Speaker 06

  What I love about it is it's just so collaborative. Everybody ends up playing with everybody else. And Gogo Bordello closed it out.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  I love them. That guy's amazing.

• 33:21Speaker 06

  They covered Patti Smith's "People Have The Power" to close it out. And of course, everybody's on stage.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Now I have major FOMO.

• 33:27Speaker 06

  Everybody's singing.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  That's so awesome.

• 33:30Speaker 06

  It was just a beautiful night.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  That's really beautiful.

• 33:32Speaker 06

  And it's such circle work because it's like, you know, and I always talk about this. When we perform, the people on stage are only one half of the circle. It's the people that are receiving and that are partaking and that are creatively communing and listening.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, sometimes we forget that.

• 33:49Speaker 06

  Participating are the other half of the circle, you know? I think it's such an antidote to the toxicity of our online forums. You know, when we can be together in real time, in real life, and our limbic systems can link up.

• 34:04Speaker 06

  We start breathing together and laughing together and feeling together and realizing that we, there's really not anything to fear.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:11Speaker 06

  With each other.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  No, you're right. It is a really special thing to be together in a space.

• 34:16Speaker 06

  To me, tho- those spaces are also holy and sacred.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  They are.

• 34:19Speaker 06

  You know, that life, that idea of we're sharing in this human creative endeavor together.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 06

  And we're kind of co-creating it. It's always a co-creation.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:29Speaker 06

  In real time.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  That's interesting you say that. Now I'm gonna ask, you just got off of a crazy run playing on Broadway.

• 34:37Speaker 06

  Yes, as my debut Broadway role.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  Okay, so you were playing Persephone?

• 34:42Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm, the goddess Persephone in Aeneas Mitchell's Hades Town.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is a huge hit.

• 34:47Speaker 06

  It's a huge, it's a unicorn on Broadway. It's wild.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  You've just come in like after it's been out a few years already, right?

• 34:54Speaker 06

  Oh, yes, so it's, this is, I wanna crow about this on their behalf because I think it's so extraordinary and it's so unique on Broadway. So, Aeneas Mitchell is the writer of both, you know, the book and the music, and Rachel Shavkin is the director, and it is now in its sixth year.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 35:13Speaker 06

  On Broadway. It debuted in 2019. In 2019, it became the first ever musical, both written and directed by women, to win Best New Musical at the Tonys. It won eight Tony Awards.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 35:27Speaker 06

  You know, including lighting, direction, dramaturgy, all of these things, and it deserves them. I mean, it's really an extraordinary production, but it is so unique in that it is, you know, Broadway is quite a boys' club in terms of like writing and directing.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 35:42Speaker 06

  And it's the first, still in history to this day, the first musical to win Best New Musical that was both written and directed by women. It's the longest-running now musical on Broadway ever written and both written and directed by women. It's the 43rd longest-running period. It's the longest-running musical in history at the Walter Kerr, which is its Broadway home.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:03Speaker 06

  The Walter Kerr Theater, which is gorgeous theater from the early 20s, just a beautiful theater on 48th, just up from Broadway.

• 36:11Speaker 06

  And it is, it is just a magical unicorn. It's still, you know, Broadway is tough. Like, there's so many.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  It's such a thing.

• 36:19Speaker 06

  And lately, especially, you know, like Elton John's musical shut down after two weeks. And the Avet Brothers swept away, shut down early.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  There's no, no knowing.

• 36:29Speaker 06

  And it wasn't for them not being great musicals. They were great.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  No, there's no telling what's gonna make it.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  You just don't know.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Okay, well, so going back to what you're saying about the circle work and the live performance, how did that play in the Broadway setting? Because I know things are quite rehearsed and quite set.

• 36:44Speaker 06

  It is, but the audience is so, that's what's remarkable. I would say the average age of the Hades Town audience is about 20.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 36:53Speaker 06

  It's 18 to 25 year olds who are the bulk of the audience. It has become hugely popular. The Hades Town teen version is being put on in schools across North America. A lot of our, particularly our matinees on Wednesday, we would get tons of school groups.

• 37:09Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 37:09Speaker 06

  Coming through and I would meet, you know, 16 year olds. I played Persephone in my school's production. And so it has become really popular for, for communities to put on, for high schools to put on. It's doing so well.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  So you still felt the audience?

• 37:26Speaker 06

  Very much, and I think.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  Even more, you think?

• 37:29Speaker 06

  I think even more. They know, I met, I met young folks at Stage Door who had been to see it upwards of 20 times.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, because they get really obsessed with it.

• 37:39Speaker 06

  I think for a lot of those kids, this show has become that kind of a safe. It's almost like a liturgy for them. It's, they know every word. There's just something really magical about the communion with the audience. Because it is, it's different every night. It's different depending on who's there, you know?

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 06

  And I felt that, and it was the discipline of playing a role where you, you can't mess up that choreography, you can't mess up those lyrics, or it messes up everybody else that's on stage with you in the ensemble.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 06

  But it's, yet it's different every night.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  So there's still enough vibe to play with.

• 38:15Speaker 06

  Very much.

• 38:16Speaker 00

  And sing as you're singing.

• 38:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  I mean, you strike me as someone who never doesn't put her whole soul into what she's singing.

• 38:25Speaker 06

  I try to, you know, I try to be really present every time. And I would, you know, my character, every night, believed the lovers would make it, you know, believed that Orpheus and Eurydice would make it.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  I could see shining.

• 38:37Speaker 06

  Every night, you know, and I would cry, I mean, I felt it. Every night, so there's this, there's at the same, on the one hand, you have to be disciplined and you have to obviously know the, the beats of the track of that role and make sure you're not messing it up, but you also have to be present in the storytelling.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 06

  And, and it felt real to me every night, you know, and she believed she, every night didn't know the ending, you know, every night, even though we all know the ending, it's a thousands of year old story, but my character didn't know the ending every night, you know. The discipline of being present like that for, you know, two and a half hours every night in this role was, was really medicinal somehow to me at this time, I think. And especially just, you know, with the way our election went, the, where, where we're at right now, kind of with deep, deep divisions in our country politically and certainly online, that's amplified and kind of, it's almost like a funhouse mirror, I feel like.

• 39:35Speaker 06

  The way our online algorithms work is a distortion actually of where we really are and who we really are.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  And when we come together.

• 39:43Speaker 06

  But it's easy to fall into it. It's easy to believe that's who we are, but when we, as you say, when you, whether it's going to church, whether it's going to a show or, you know, or just having a conversation with someone like at the grocery store, you know, in real life, you, that, that counteracts the distortion of online, you know.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 06

  I think that we're not as far gone as we appear to be when you look at our, the online story of us.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  I agree with that.

• 40:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  I, I want us to be together more.

• 40:14Speaker 06

  Yes, yeah, and we need to, we need to be, we need to be. And what struck me, what strikes me about that musical is the way that it has become a safe place for young people that have been, you know, a lot of our audience, definitely very queer forward audience, I would say, and a lot of the kids that come have been rejected from religious communities because of their orientation or because of their gender identity.

• 40:43Speaker 06

  And that to me is so heartbreaking that that is happening within our religious communities. And I know that that that's also changing. There's many communities that are adapting to go, no, we have to love our kids no matter what. You know, it should be love of our children needs to be unconditional, actually. And if if something in our liturgy is saying otherwise, then we need to adapt and shift, you know?

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like how you say that.

• 41:07Speaker 06

  And I think that's happening.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  That seems so logical, right?

• 41:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  It's like, how can you argue with that?

• 41:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. Were you just exhausted doing the show?

• 41:16Speaker 06

  You know, not until it ended.

• 41:18Speaker 00

  I've heard it's the most exhausting thing you can do.

• 41:20Speaker 06

  It's so intense, because Broadway is eight shows a week.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a lot.

• 41:23Speaker 06

  And you have one dark day. And in our case, it's Monday. And I didn't miss a show. So my contract was 15 weeks. And I did not miss a show, eight shows a week for 15 weeks. And I felt fine while I was in it. But the minute it ended, I think I had like adrenal shutdown.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  I'm sure.

• 41:41Speaker 06

  Like, I basically was like on the floor and I couldn't speak and I couldn't move. And it was like, oh, that was hard, you know?

• 41:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you just powered through.

• 41:50Speaker 06

  The adrenaline kind of kept me going, I think. And this was my, it was my first Broadway role. It was my first, not just Broadway role, but act like serious acting role.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  Had you ever done any acting as a kid?

• 41:59Speaker 06

  In the 10th grade, I played Oberon, King of the Fairies, in my high school production of Midsummer Night's Dream.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 42:08Speaker 06

  But so this was a huge, you know, a big shift and and a challenge. But I loved it. And of course, now I've been bitten by that bug and I want to do more.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  You think you would do it again?

• 42:20Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I loved it. I really did.

• 42:27Speaker 06

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• 44:49Speaker 00

  Do you want to try Nightflyer?

• 44:50Speaker 06

  Should we do it?

• 44:51Speaker 00

  Since it's my intro to you and I love this song so much.

• 44:55Speaker 06

  Let's do it. I don't know whether, I wonder if, do you want to just play piano and I play clarinet on it?

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I was gonna ask. I don't know when you want to play clarinet.

• 45:02Speaker 06

  I would love it. Because I usually, again, this is so, it's so funny with, I'm so spoiled with my Rainbow Coalition ensemble. I almost never, I always just play clarinet on this.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Really?

• 45:12Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 45:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, usually it's Ginessa James, or playing guitar on this, or Kiva Hotkinson.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  I could play guitar, but I think piano, I'm better.

• 45:21Speaker 06

  Oh, no, I think piano will be beautiful on this.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  You were gonna play it at the Willie thing, but then we kind of ran out of

• 45:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  steam for some, I don't know what happened, but

• 45:29Speaker 06

  It was so much fun.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  That night after the second show, I got back to my hotel room and I had to get up at 4 a.m. for a flight.

• 45:36Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  So I just kind of like stayed up and packed, and then I listened to old Willie albums. I just started weeping. The way the music has touched me my whole life. I was listening to Willie, I was just packing and like, I was like ugly crying, packing, but so full of joy from the weekend, like, not sad crying, but also just, just having that experience with everyone. We were all so

• 46:00Speaker 06

  It was beautiful.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  We were all so happy and Willie was happy.

• 46:04Speaker 06

  Willie was so happy.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  He was so great.

• 46:06Speaker 06

  One of my favorite moments was when we were running Seven Spanish Angels and Soundcheck, and Willie and Annie went by on the golf cart.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 06

  And he was like, "Sounds great, girls."

• 46:18Speaker 00

  I forgot that.

• 46:19Speaker 06

  Like, I'm inside screaming, inside with joy, you know, like, I can't believe, I'm singing with Norah Jones and Willie just went by on a golf cart and said, "It sounds great, girls."

• 46:28Speaker 00

  Willie gave us the thumbs up. I just, Willie's so special to me.

• 46:32Speaker 06

  Oh, he is.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  And has been since I was little bitty.

• 46:36Speaker 06

  Willie Nelson is just, he's such a badass connect, I'm sorry, I shouldn't say that.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  I curse a lot.

• 46:41Speaker 06

  He's such an amazing human, and

• 46:44Speaker 00

  He is.

• 46:44Speaker 06

  That, like, that he threw himself a two-day giant party at the Hollywood Bowl, where he just like worked so hard the entire time.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  I'd like to think it wasn't even his idea, probably, but

• 46:57Speaker 06

  He's so amazing.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  The fun thing about Willie is he's such an icon, but he just likes to play. He just wants to play.

• 47:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  He just loves playing. So why not? It was definitely one of the best shows I've ever experienced.

• 47:12Speaker 06

  It was amazing.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  From start to finish.

• 47:14Speaker 06

  No, I'll never forget it. And that was the last time you saw Kris Kristofferson? Oh, my gosh.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  Yes, and I had sung with him before and gotten to know him and his wife a little bit over the years. So like, it was so special to see them. I hadn't seen them since before COVID, I think.

• 47:30Speaker 06

  And it was also the way that you kept him grounded, you know, because he was struggling with dementia at that point, right?

• 47:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 06

  Or maybe it was Alzheimer's, I can't remember.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  I'm not really sure, but he was struggling with some memory stuff.

• 47:41Speaker 06

  Memory stuff. But he was watching you.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 06

  And like, you were...

• 47:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, but he knew his song.

• 47:47Speaker 06

  He knew his song. But there was something so beautiful about the way he was watching you sing it, like you were keeping him grounded.

• 47:54Speaker 00

  Talk about being present. It was like a real big lesson in being present.

• 47:59Speaker 06

  It was...

• 47:59Speaker 00

  Because there was no preparing.

• 48:03Speaker 06

  No, I'll never forget that.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  He was so beautiful. No, I loved seeing them.

• 48:06Speaker 06

  That was one of my favorite moments in that whole show, was watching you two do that.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  It was a crier, for sure.

• 48:11Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh, we were all weeping.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Such a good song, too.

• 48:15Speaker 06

  It was just so beautiful.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  That's a nice one. What instrument did you start on?

• 48:21Speaker 06

  Playing?

• 48:25Speaker 06

  Kind of piano, but not really. Like, I never learned. I would just, my mom is a piano player.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:30Speaker 06

  So I would, like, sound things out on the piano. But I've never really played it.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 06

  And then I guess guitar, briefly. Like, when I first started writing songs, it was with guitar, but I pretty quickly switched over to banjo, because I just, because of Kermit the Frog.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, was there a banjo lying around? Like, how do you just switch to banjo?

• 48:52Speaker 06

  No, so when I, I was pretty much in the, I grew up in Montreal and I was pretty much in the closet as a songwriter until I moved out to B.C.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  Did you always sing?

• 49:02Speaker 06

  I always sang.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 49:04Speaker 06

  And I always sort of wrote things, but like to in, you know, I didn't share them.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  And I, when I was seventeen, I ran away as far as I could from Montreal. And as far as I could go was Vancouver, British Columbia. And I ended up being there for almost a decade. And I started playing, there was like a really thriving kind of folky, what we would have called alt country.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  Okay, so you fell in.

• 49:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, I fell into that and into, we have an awesome folk fest in Vancouver, the Vancouver Folk Music Festival. And I started playing music with a woman named Trish Klein, who was part of a band called the Be Good Tanyas.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I love that band.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, they were awesome and I looked up to them. And Trish and I started playing music on the side and she was a banjo player. And I was just getting into playing clarinet at the time. So she was like, let's do a project with banjo and clarinet. And we started out doing kind of like learning songs from the American Songbook. Like, do you know what it means to miss New Orleans and things like that? And then we very quickly started writing our own stuff.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 50:07Speaker 06

  And that became Poe Girl, which was my first baby band with her.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 50:12Speaker 06

  And, and we toured around and were feral and wild and, you know, had a nineteen seventy eight Starcraft van named Shaggy that we drove across the country and it broke down in every province.

• 50:23Speaker 00

  That's beautiful.

• 50:25Speaker 06

  We learned the hard way.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  That is hard.

• 50:27Speaker 06

  What not to do and what to do, you know, like all that stuff.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  So essentially you didn't play an instrument till you were like seventeen ish?

• 50:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Okay, that's later.

• 50:35Speaker 06

  I didn't seriously start playing until, yeah, really, yeah, late teens, early twenties.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  I like that though, because it reminds people that it's not too late.

• 50:43Speaker 06

  It's never too late.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 06

  Never, never, never.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 50:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's never too late to start playing, doesn't matter how old you are.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  That's true, I agree. I just started taking a painting class and I'm like, it's never too late to get a new thing.

• 50:56Speaker 06

  I love that you're doing, what, is it like a specific medium, like acrylics?

• 50:59Speaker 00

  It's acrylic, yeah. But the teacher is really great, so it's inspiring, it's just so inspiring and fun.

• 51:05Speaker 06

  I just think doing anything that, that like helps us stay in our brains and bodies and like build connections between the hemispheres of our brains, like these are just like so good to do.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Not on your phone.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  It's so good, yeah, and be with people in real life.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 51:20Speaker 06

  Doing something.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  It's a fun group of ladies and one guy.

• 51:24Speaker 06

  And one brave man.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  One man.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  All right, so this is, this is, yeah. I love this song.

• 51:32Speaker 06

  Thank you for knowing and liking one of my songs.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Oh, I love it. I love you. I think you're amazing.

• 51:37Speaker 06

  I love you.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  I was just late to the party, later to the party.

• 52:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm a midnight ride. Stoneborn of fire, not fly. I'm an angel of the morning too. Promise that the dawn will bring you.

• 52:31Speaker 06

  I'm the melody and the space between. Every note that's swallowed sings. I'm fourteen vultures circling. I'm the crawling, dying thing. I'm the smoke up above the trees, good lord. The fire in the branch that's burning, lord. Maybe you were sleeping, lord. But maybe she's now weeping no more, no. Ooh. Yeah, I'm a midnight ride. Stoneborn of fire, not fly.

• 53:18Speaker 06

  I'm an angel of the morning too Promise that the dawn will bring you You

• 53:34Speaker 06

  You

• 53:41Speaker 06

  I'm the sick light of a hurricane's eye I'm a violin lullaby I'm six fireflies One streetlight A suffocating summer night Ooh

• 54:05Speaker 06

  I'm each of his steps on the stairway His shadow in the door frame I'm the tap tap of a lunar moth I'm the stale beer on his breath

• 54:25Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm

• 54:29Speaker 06

  But his soul is trapped in that room And I cried back in my mother's womb I came back all in my gold and my greens Now I see everything Now I feel everything good What the hell could they bring to stop me, Lord? Nothing from the earth, nothing from the sea Not a god almighty thing I'm a midnight ride So born to fight, not fly I'm an angel of the morning too

• 55:13Speaker 06

  Promise that the dawn will bring you You

• 55:24Speaker 06

  You

• 56:02Speaker 06

  I'm the wounded bird that's screaming high, the one who can't be counted on. I'm the dove thrown into bed, I could roll and shake and ramble. Ooh, yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 06

  And I'm the moon's dark side, the solar flare, the child of the earth, the child of the air. I am the mother of the evening sky. I am the love that conquers the world. Yeah, I'm a midnight ride, stone born of fire, not fly. I'm an angel of the morning too. Promise that the dawn will bring you. Yeah, I'm a midnight ride, stone born of fire, not fly. I'm an angel of the morning too.

• 57:11Speaker 06

  Promise that the dawn will bring you. You. You. You. You.

• 57:55Speaker 00

  That was pretty.

• 57:55Speaker 06

  I love that.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Oh, me too.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  I love that. It makes me very happy.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Oh, thanks for letting me play that with you.

• 58:02Speaker 06

  Thank you for suggesting it.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  I'm glad you played clarinet.

• 58:05Speaker 06

  It was fun. It's fun to like, and also just to reinterpret it and have it have so much breadth and like, oh, and your harmonies sound so beautiful.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  Oh, it's such a harmonious song.

• 58:16Speaker 06

  It's a harmonious song, for sure, for sure, for sure.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  It's a heavy song, too.

• 58:20Speaker 06

  Yeah. You know, it's also like weirdly in its own way, the most hopeful song maybe I've ever written.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  I agree with that, too. It's very hopeful.

• 58:30Speaker 06

  And the reference to the evening star, that's Ida. She was born at 7:49 PM and we've always called her our evening star.

• 58:36Speaker 00

  That's really sweet. Yeah.

• 58:44Speaker 05

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard. But then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 58:59Speaker 07

  Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one? It could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti, Rexiprazole 2mg, the first FDA-approved treatment for this condition. Rexulti is proven to reduce agitation symptoms. Rexulti should not be used as an as-needed treatment. Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur. Learn more about these and other side effects at rexulti.com. Tap ad for PI.

• 59:34Speaker 05

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 59:36Speaker 07

  Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 59:40Speaker 04

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at

• 1:00:00Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hipmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  The moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Have you ever written in French?

• 1:01:09Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Probably a lot, because you're from Montreal.

• 1:01:12Speaker 06

  I've never, like, I'll do part, sometimes parts of songs will come out in French. I want to do a whole French language album.

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  That would be nice.

• 1:01:20Speaker 06

  I haven't done that yet, but I want to do that at some point. Yeah, for sure. It's different, it's so interesting, like, to, I used to be completely bilingual. Now, my French is not as good as my English.

• 1:01:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:01:32Speaker 06

  But I still, I like to, like, keep it up. I still, you know, read in French and watch films in French, and I try to. But it's hard when you're not, you know, speaking daily.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:01:43Speaker 06

  I definitely have lost some vocabulary.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  Does Ida have any French?

• 1:01:48Speaker 06

  She's learning a little bit, you know, she's learning Spanish in school, and she loves Spanish. She's obsessed with that Duolingo app.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Speaker 06

  She's on like a 900-day streak.

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  Well, that's at least doing something good.

• 1:01:59Speaker 06

  On Duolingo.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  That darn screen.

• 1:02:00Speaker 06

  I know, I know. She's not allowed, I mean, she's not allowed to have a phone yet, but she has an iPad, and she's allowed to, like, do Duolingo on her iPad and things like that. But she's 11 now and she's begging for a phone, of course. And we're like putting it off.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  I have an 11 year old.

• 1:02:17Speaker 06

  Putting it off.

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think we just have to be the bad guy.

• 1:02:20Speaker 06

  We have to be the bad guy because it's like the end of their childhood when they get a phone.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  Yes, it's so hard.

• 1:02:25Speaker 06

  But I feel that way about our phones and like we have to be on them. I want somebody to take my phone away from me.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  I want somebody to be the bad guy for me so that I don't have to have it. I'm so sick of it. So that's the hard stuff for me.

• 1:02:37Speaker 06

  There's also just the tyranny of being expected to like see things in real time and respond in real time.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's tricky.

• 1:02:45Speaker 06

  I don't think that's healthy for anybody. I actually think it's really good to take time to respond to things.

• 1:02:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, otherwise you fire off six texts that are say, you know, you're confused by your own response until you have a moment.

• 1:02:56Speaker 06

  That expectation of immediate gratification always in every moment is not healthy for us. I don't think.

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  Not at all.

• 1:03:05Speaker 06

  And it's not how we function. It's not how we evolved. It's not how our brains work. Like it's too, it's not, it's tyrannical to expect that to like, you know, I don't, I don't know. We just need more time to process things and to respond mindfully.

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  It's definitely, I think everyone listening, everyone in this planet knows that it's messing us up at this point. Yeah, but everybody knows it at this point.

• 1:03:31Speaker 06

  And that's why we have to just agree with each other. Like let's give each other a break. Let's give each other a break and go, we don't, it doesn't have to be like this.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's a house of cards. You can't, certain things you just have, anyway, we could go on and on. Everybody knows it.

• 1:03:45Speaker 06

  Everybody knows.

• 1:03:46Speaker 00

  And we just have to try to protect these little ones from it. That's the tricky part.

• 1:03:51Speaker 06

  I know.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  And speaking of, that's a great segue for the next song.

• 1:03:57Speaker 06

  Yes, all this, so when, when Sinead O'Connor died, I went through, I don't know that I've ever had such an emotional reaction to the death of someone that I did not personally know.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 1:04:09Speaker 06

  I, I don't know, it, it hit me so hard.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Had you been a fan?

• 1:04:13Speaker 06

  Very much, very much. And you know, her bravery in talking about and thinking about the abuse of children.

• 1:04:24Speaker 06

  You know, I was a child being abused when she did that, you know? And it was, so she was one of the freedom singers to me, like Sinead O'Connor, Tracy Chapman. Like, hearing Tracy Chapman's Behind the Wall, there were certain things that for me were realizing, okay, I'm not the only person that's ever lived through this. And there's life on the other side of this. And like, they were, they were freedom singers to me. They were like beacons of hope and light. And I've admired her for years, but it just hit me so hard when she died. And then I went through a phase of listening to all her recordings chronologically. And there was one that I had somehow never heard.

• 1:05:05Speaker 06

  It was an EP from, I think, 1997 called Gospel Oak. And it's a gorgeous EP. And on this EP, there's a song called This Is To Mother You. And I got obsessed with this song and listened to it over and over again and found it so comforting. So I'm thrilled that you were game to, to try to sing it. Together to cover it together. Isn't it a beautiful song?

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  It's very beautiful. And it's really just, you just think of the little child versions of yourself were, you know? And it's just, it's just.

• 1:05:40Speaker 06

  It's to mother. I think about like, have you seen the movie Wicked?

• 1:05:44Speaker 00

  Not yet. I've been waiting for my kids to like, I've been trying to get my kids to go see it. And, you know, it's so long, we've been trying to fit it in.

• 1:05:51Speaker 06

  I know, it is.

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  It's just long.

• 1:05:54Speaker 06

  When I was, during the Hades Town Run, my cat, we went together as a cast. We rented a theater and we went together as a cast. And Ida was in town for that, my daughter, and came with us to see it. And we, everybody dressed up, like, it was like total cosplay, like nerdy Broadway actor, you know? And I, and watching it with my daughter and the whole cast, it was just so joyful. But anyway, I'm not gonna spoil. There's a specific moment I want to speak on that.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  I've seen the musical on Broadway.

• 1:06:21Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:06:21Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:06:22Speaker 06

  You haven't seen the movie. And there's a moment in the movie that I won't give away. But anyway, that this song relates to.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think of little Sinead too.

• 1:06:32Speaker 06

  I know. And just, you know, that she. I think about her being like thirty years ahead of the Me Too curve.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:40Speaker 06

  You know, and, and, and being

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  And being vilified for it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 06

  Vilified.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:45Speaker 06

  Vilified for speaking the truth, for what we now all can admit is the truth. But at the time, people couldn't, I mean, even, even like iconoclastic people at the time were throwing her under the bus, you know? And I think about that, the loneliness of being the sort of like oracular truth teller before your time and not having the support group and not having the circle to hold you, you know?

• 1:07:09Speaker 00

  I mean, it must make you feel crazy.

• 1:07:10Speaker 06

  It must make you feel crazy. And, and I think about her too, that she didn't fully ever get her flowers while she was with us.

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  That is

• 1:07:18Speaker 06

  And it wasn't until she was gone that everyone was like, oh.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:07:22Speaker 06

  You know, and it just was like.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:07:25Speaker 06

  Oh, it's heartbreaking.

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  It is.

• 1:07:29Speaker 06

  And I had that feeling of I should have like tried to seek her out or something. You know, you have these like wild ideas in your mind after the fact. I felt that way when Bell Hooks died, like, why didn't I go see her? She lived in Kentucky. I live in Nashville, Tennessee. She wasn't far away. I could have gone. Or Nikki Giovanni, like, I could have tried to meet her. I could have, you know, but you don't, often you don't think of these things until it's too late.

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  Well, maybe it'll, you'll go forward thinking that way.

• 1:07:56Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  When you think of someone, just reach out.

• 1:07:59Speaker 06

  Reach out, yes.

• 1:08:00Speaker 00

  And don't sleep on it.

• 1:08:02Speaker 06

  Exactly. And I feel like that is for everyone in our life, like to reach out to the people.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  Your grandma.

• 1:08:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, every people in our lives that we love and appreciate to, yeah, to reach out now, to reach out now while we can.

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  It's a good lesson. All right, I'm gonna pivot.

• 1:08:19Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, we are gonna do the organ.

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm gonna try to play this pump organ, which I've never played.

• 1:08:24Speaker 06

  This is so exciting.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  I think this will be nice because I turned the bass down, so it's a little less overpowering.

• 1:08:34Speaker 06

  Oh, it's so pretty when you do that.

• 1:08:46Speaker 06

  Maybe we start it like that. I was just gonna say, let's do it. What if we start it like that, exactly like that? Because it's so crazy. Mind reading, alright. I love it.

• 1:08:57Speaker 06

  (Music)

• 1:09:23Speaker 06

  This is to mother you, to comfort you and get you through. Through when your nights are lonely, through when your dreams are only blue. This is to mother you.

• 1:09:53Speaker 06

  This is to be with you, to hold you and to kiss you too. For when you need me, I will do what your mother didn't do, which is to mother you.

• 1:10:23Speaker 06

  All the pain that you have known, all the violence in your soul, all the wrong things you have done, I will take from you when I come. All mistakes made in distress, all your unhappiness, I will take away with my kiss. I will give you tenderness. For child, I am so glad I found you.

• 1:11:10Speaker 06

  Although my arms have always been around you, sweet but although you did not see me, I saw you. And I'm here to mother you, to comfort you and get you through. Through when your nights are lonely, through when your dreams are only blue. This is to mother you.

• 1:11:57Speaker 06

  Oh child, I am so glad I found you. Although my arms have always been around you, sweet but although you did not see me, I saw you. And I'm here to mother you, to comfort you and get you through. Through when your nights are lonely, through when your dreams are only blue.

• 1:12:41Speaker 06

  This is to mother you.

• 1:12:51Speaker 06

  This is to mother you.

• 1:13:08Speaker 06

  That's pretty.

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:13:11Speaker 06

  Cool.

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Yay!

• 1:13:13Speaker 06

  We did! Oh my gosh, it's such a joy making music with you. Hanging with you.

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  I have to say thank you with the mic.

• 1:13:23Speaker 00

  That was so awesome.

• 1:13:24Speaker 06

  That was so awesome. Thank you so much for making music with me and hanging out.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  Thank you, this has been an absolute dream.

• 1:13:31Speaker 06

  Such a joy.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  Let's do more.

• 1:13:33Speaker 06

  Yes, please.

• 1:13:34Speaker 00

  Yay!

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard. But then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 1:13:56Speaker 07

  Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one? It could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti. Rexiprazole 2mg. The first FDA-approved treatment for this condition. Rexulti is proven to reduce agitation symptoms. Rexulti should not be used as an as-needed treatment. Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur. Learn more about these and other side effects at rexulti.com. Tap ad for PI. I'm glad I asked for help. Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 1:14:37Speaker 03

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• 1:15:07Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before

• 1:15:50Speaker 00

  the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to "Before the Moment," a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  Aw, thanks for joining us.

• 1:16:04Speaker 05

  That was great. I love the pump organ.

• 1:16:06Speaker 00

  I know, I love that song. It makes me cry.

• 1:16:08Speaker 05

  I know.

• 1:16:09Speaker 00

  That was so fun. The first song we did in this episode was called "Super Lover," and it's a single performed by Allison Russell, featuring Annie Lennox, which was released in 2025. And it's a reimagined version of the song that was written by J.T. Nero for "Birds of Chicago." The second song we did is called "Really Real," and I sang on this song on her new album. It's from her new album that just came out, called "In the Hour of Chaos." The third song is her classic song, "Nightflyer," from Outside Child 2021. And the fourth song is the beautiful Sinead O'Connor song called "This Is to Mother You," from her album Gospel Oak, which was released in 1997. Special thanks to Allison Russell for joining us today, and we'll be back next week with Phineas.

• 1:16:54Speaker 00

  Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones. Recorded by Matt Marinelli. Mixed by Jamie Landry. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Fry. Photography by Shirvin Lenez. Produced by Norah Jones and Sara Oda. Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Alison Cantor-Graeber. That's adorable. I'm adorable.

• 1:17:21Speaker 05

  It's so funny.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Med's, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1.

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  Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.