Norah Jones Is Playing Along
Sam Smith, the mutli-GRAMMY winning vocalist and songwriter, sits down with Norah for a conversation full of insight and heart.
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If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country, talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Sam Smith.
I'm just playing along with you.
Hey, I'm Nora. Welcome to the show. And with me as always is Sarah Oda.
Welcome to our show.
Yay.
Our guest today is Grammy-winning singer-songwriter, beautiful human with an incredible voice, Sam Smith. They broke out with Stay With Me and their record called In The Lonely Hour in 2014. And you're going to hear about how they've continued evolving since then. Currently, they're doing a tour of intimate stripped-down residencies called To Be Free. The New York run has extended dates through December 13th. Keep an eye out to see if there's still tickets available. But they've also announced more residency dates in San Francisco for February of 2026.
Yeah, this was a really special episode.
Really, really heartwarming.
I'm a fan. And I really just, I could, I could listen to Sam talk forever.
Yeah.
We sang some pretty songs, too.
Beautiful.
You're going to hear about evolving as an artist and kind of how fans perceive those changes, feeling happy and confident in your own skin, and staying connected with music from the past, which isn't always easy, and new takes on songs you might know.
Yeah. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Sam Smith. You're living in New York.
Yes, I'm living in New York.
And is it, how does it feel?
It feels, it feels amazing. It's, it feels like for me, the first time I found a place to be where I'm just enough. And not, that's, that's how it feels like to me, honestly.
Wow.
Yeah. It's like, I've just, everywhere I've always been since I was a kid is just always too much.
Really?
All the time. And too, too loud, too big, too, too queer, too... Um, opinionated, all these things. And so I really, it feels like it's a city um that can facilitate my nature.
That is deep.
Which is beautiful.
That is really beautiful. Well, welcome to New York.
Thank you, thank you so much.
With open arms.
Thank you, thank you. Hearing that from you is amazing. Wow, that's really quite a thing to to realize. Yeah.
Well, I'm I'm glad you're content here.
Thank you.
It feels, it feels good.
Thank you so much.
And you're doing like this crazy string of shows.
Just at the Warsaw, right?
Yeah, the Warsaw, yeah.
How many shows is it total?
Twenty four shows in total.
But with little breaks, right?
Yeah, it's three shows a week for three weeks. And then I get a two week break, which I'm on right now.
Okay.
And then another three weeks on.
But that sounds so fun.
It's so fun.
Is it?
Yeah, it's so fun. And I I it was quite confronting, the first show, because you've got to remember, I've been traveling since I was twenty years old.
Mm hmm.
Um, my shows started to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And I I I just became an arena artist. And that's what I did for my whole twenties. And um, the pressure of that and um, the I love playing those rooms and nothing and the buzz of it is so incredible.
It's a different thing.
And for me, it's, you know, I've never really spoken about it too much in detail because I because but I can now, I think. But I I I'm I am so scared of performing live.
Yeah, I find it really traumatic and petrifying.
Is it just your nature to be shy like that or?
No, I think I think actually now I'm going older and realize I'm more of a um, what what's it called?
Introvert.
I'm more of an introvert than I thought I was. Because I'm I'm in, you know, in everyday life, I'm larger than life. But it's just being in those rooms, do you know what it is? It's the pressure. It's the pressure in those big arenas for me. It's the pressure on my voice to deliver.
I find that crippling and because I've chosen to not mime and not to lean on that if things go wrong.
Which most arena artists do.
Yeah, a lot of them do, I think, and that is there's no judgment, actually. And I actually tried it once, there's one show that I, for one song in one show, I was like, do you know what? I can't be so opinionated about this.
Unless I try it myself.
So there's one show, one night on my tour, when my voice was totally fine, and I just said, do you know what, for one song, I'm gonna mime.
The whole song? Or just had some vacuum?
From start to finish, I just, I had a live track vocal come over my voice. And I mimed for the first time ever in a room full of twenty thousand people. I still sang ninety percent of that show, ninety-nine percent of that show.
But you just wanted to see what it was like.
I wanted to see what it was like for one song and
it was great.
You got a little break?
It was great, my voice got a break. But it was just, it wasn't, it wasn't right for me.
I, I, I think that I got into, you know, I started doing musical theatre as a child. And then I decided I wanted to stop doing musical theatre when I was about fifteen, from listening to records like yours. And, and so many records around me as a child where I just fell in love with the art of singer-songwriters and people telling their stories through their records. And my singing teacher at the time is an amazing woman called Joanna Eden. And she is a singer-songwriter and she is incredible. And, and her albums used to inspire me so much when I was a child, because I was like, wow, I could do that, I can actually tell my stories and maybe even travel one day around the country or, you know, never really thought it would be the world, but, and be able to like
just play small venues and enjoy the art of singing and sharing stories. That's what I fell in love with and from a young age, I kind of promised myself that. And one of the main reasons why I love that art form is so much is because of the warts and all. And from those incredible recordings of, you know, Joni Mitchell and people like that, where you hear the voice change and you hear the imperfections in the voice change. And so. I think that through miming that one time in that one song, I really,
it became clear to me what I wanted to do. And so doing these shows at the Warsaw have been an amazing way of me getting back to that and getting back to the real love of what I do. My love of performing, because my ultimate love is studio writing, singing.
And performing was more of a struggle.
Performing is more of a secondary thing that comes with the territory, you know.
Well, being in a small room, I was just talking to a friend this morning about that. Because I went to a few arena shows recently and it was so different from where I play in usually smaller theaters. And being backstage, because I was backstage. I got to be backstage and it was crazy because.
Who did you see?
I saw, I saw John Legend last night and I got to sing with him. It was incredible.
He's incredible.
The greatest, one of the greatest there is.
His voice is insane. So beautiful. But just the backstage area, and it was a very nice arena, you know, it was beautiful. But I feel like if you were only in those kinds of places, even just being backstage, it feels kind of lonely.
It's very lonely. It's very lonely and isolating and,
you know, one of the things I love about doing shows is I like being with my band. I like being close to my band.
I get that sense.
Yeah, especially my back end singers, they're my, they're my, they're my family. And so I love to be close to people and if, because it really is, as much as it's my name of my songs, it's such a collaborative thing, you know, being on stage, so.
Well, that's what, when it is, that's when it's the best.
Yes, yes. But I, my whole career became, in my last arena tour, became very, very isolated.
Whereas for me to feel some sort of control as well, I actually. I I kind of leant into the the theatrics really far on my last arena tour with the costume changes and I was quite defiant. I was like, look, if I'm gonna do this room in this way and sing pop songs like this, then this is how it's gonna be. It's gonna be loads of track and and I'm gonna do this pop star thing that I've always the the itch I've always wanted to scratch.
But you did it so well.
It was fun. I was I was fat and I was shattered the whole way through. I sprayed my ankle three times.
Oh, no.
Because I was wearing, people don't read us. I'm like, you know, the girls, the girls, the queens of of music, you know, they do this and they do it so incredibly well. But I'm a six foot two, seventeen stone queer person, you know, in eight inch massive heels.
That's not easy.
Running around, you know, like doing crazy things and being nude, like naked on stage every night for that one song.
When I sang the Madonna song, Express Yourself. It was such a wild experience and it was really was a dream come true.
And I got to tick that box. But after I was like, I belong at the Warsaw in Brooklyn right now.
That's perfect.
I need to go back. I need to regather.
That's good.
And I need to connect to my fan base again because me and my fans, we we've we I think there was a little, there's been a disconnect naturally because I've gone from being to them, a gay, a young gay man, to now being in a position where I'm I'm have my pronouns have changed. I'm a queer person and and and I'm now a very different person. And so I have to reconnect with my fans.
But I think they're all changing as well. I mean, everyone over time changes and I think that's just part of life. And I think people's favorite type of artists are ones who change.
Yeah, I I think so.
I think I think going from being this pop star in the arena to playing these intimate shows, it's just so special for people.
But you must have experienced that, right? Through your career, like having to like Do the things that you want to do and maybe some people not coming along for the ride.
Probably. I had a record label president tell me he didn't love my record and that was fine because he was my friend and I trusted him, but I loved it and so he still was fine and he let me put it out. So it was a good thing, you know.
But yeah, I think, I think changing, once you realize that you can't do this to please them, you want to stay connected to them, but only, that's only going to keep happening if you're doing what just tickles you, you know.
What you love, yeah.
Yeah, what you love.
Yeah, it's so true.
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If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic, but in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before
the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Well, I wanted to see if you wanted to sing one of your new songs that you've been doing at the Warsaw.
Yes, I would love to.
The "To Be Free"? It's actually called the "To Be Free".
It's called "To Be Free Tour", residency tour that I'm doing. We've announced two of the residencies. This song is a song that I wrote with my friend Simon Aldret. And I wrote it at the very, the same week that I actually changed my pronouns and went on this this moment of self-discovery for me and realization. And I wrote this song with him. It was just such an amazing moment. I'll never sing the song like I did in the recording because it was five years ago.
And you felt it, every drop of it?
Yeah, it was like the whole, the song that you, that's been released is the, it's just me singing the thing the whole way through. Me and him just performing free in the room, no click.
So beautiful.
It was amazing. So I, you know.
It sure goes along with the lyrics too.
Yeah, for sure.
You just shut everything and just do it.
Yeah, it's beautiful. I would love to.
Pray your heart be lighter.
Brave and free like mine.
Floating like a feather.
Hope waits down the line.
To be free.
Like the river destined to be
to be free
Wings of freedom fly to me
Shake off all your burden
Shame's no friend of mine
Lose my faith in perfect
We'll be home in time
Like the river destined to be to be free
Fly
To be free
Like the river, there's this speed.
Wings of freedom, fly to me, fly to me.
May your heart be open.
Let no one change your mind.
Oh, that's so pretty.
Two days ago, I was, I was Julia Childs for Halloween.
Oh, my God.
So I was like.
That's amazing.
So I was screaming like, born of a teen, like screaming really loud, but my voice is gone.
Did you do the show on Halloween?
I did, yeah.
Did, were you Julia Childs for the show?
No, actually not.
Okay, but after the show?
After the show.
That's kind of a brilliant.
I put some fake tits on, it was fabulous.
That's like the best costume I think I've heard in a while.
The theme of my Halloween party was Meryl Streep. So we, and then last year the theme was Nicole Kidman.
Can I, where do I get an invite to this party?
Right now, you're invited, next year, come. Next year, we're gonna do Sex and City, I think.
Oh, my God, it's perfect. I'm a Halloween lover.
Me, since coming to New York, I now get it, like, it's different here, isn't it? It's like.
Yeah, I spent one Halloween in London and it was funny.
Yeah, it's quite bleak.
Yeah, well, it was fun, but yeah, nobody else was dressed like me. I felt really ugly.
And it's more for children in Halloween in the UK, like, whereas everyone gets involved.
Yeah, okay.
Your songs are very piano friendly.
Oh, good.
They're so beautiful and fun to play.
It's like a prayer.
Yeah, it feels like a prayer, that song to me, when I sing it. And like, even just then, like, my voice feels a bit tired today. But it still feels right when I'm doing it. You can mumble it and hopefully when I'm old and grey, I can croak it out.
I think you will. It's so beautiful. You said you wrote that at a time when you were really coming into yourself a little more.
It's been really interesting watching you over the years. And feeling... I've come to this realisation that you've become such an inspiration to so many people. And it's really beautiful.
Oh, thank you.
And I was wondering if you feel that. You must know that. You must feel it from people.
Yeah, I think I'm actually in the process right now of starting to like... Now that I've... Now I feel like I'm in my skin. Which I always felt, to be quite honest. But it was just, now I feel like everyone's caught up with me.
It's more how I feel.
That makes sense.
Yeah, I feel now ready to assume responsibility and feel good about that. Not just for, hopefully queer people that may see themselves a little bit in what I do or feel soothed by it, but also for everyone. Not just queer people, anyone who feels different. You know, it's...
Which is most people.
Which is most people, yeah. I think the more we spoke about that, actually, the more we'd realise we have so much more in common than we think.
But it was, yeah, it's been a strange experience for me because I was so out and proud as a child.
Were you?
Very. Like, it was not... You know, there was no containing me. I was, there was no closets, honestly. When I came out, everyone was like, yeah. And like it was so, and I came out so young, I was like ten years old. And so by the time that I was in school, end of school, I was wearing full. I'd go to school every day in makeup and female clothing and everything. And I was very much how people have seen me over the last three years expressed myself. I was doing that at eighteen. I, I felt like for the first, for my first album, I kind of felt like I was in drag.
By being.
By wearing my suits, wearing my suits and my queer. I was like, this is fab. I feel like, I feel, I feel, I loved it. I felt very much in my skin because I was exploring.
It was only until my second album, when there was this pressure to remain the same.
Yeah, I was gonna ask if that came again then from the industry.
It was from the industry, but it was also myself. Like I was, I'm a very ambitious person and so I, I would love, like I looked at people around me. Like I looked at Adele and I looked at Ed Sheeran and even like Amy Winehouse and.
You know, so many of the greats, I looked at them and I just thought, I would love to be like that. I'd love to just stick with, with that iconic look and that, and that thing and be able to stay there. And so I tried, I tried and, but there is a, there is an ocean inside of me. That is constantly flowing.
It's, it's a weird thing to balance because you're happy and you're getting happier in your skin. But you're still very blessed and lucky in your career and life. So there's nothing to moan about, but.
But when you see.
Ambition starts to lessen.
Yeah, and when you see people leaving, you only see, usually people mostly only see the negative sometimes.
Oh, for sure.
It's easy to ruminate on that.
For sure. And I thank, thank God I had amazing, positive people around me that was, you know, just like, look around you. You're, this is incredible. Like.
If, there's nothing to worry about. It's beautiful.
But you know, I was trained from a young age to, to be ambitious and to, and to break through the ceilings above me, you know. And so I'm starting to realize now that I can do that still, if I want to.
But yeah, it was, it was a transitional thing that happened to me that I don't think has happened to a lot of. Popeyes before.
No, I don't think so at all. That's why I feel like it's so.
It's amazing, actually. You know, when I was thinking about the last ten or so years and you preparing for this, I was thinking about all of the evolving that's happened with you and how. How was that on the inside, you know? How was that?
It was, it was, it was, it was hard, but it was, it was the more I became myself, the more happier I felt in my skin.
The hardest part for me was in, on my second album, I did a tour called The Thrill of It, or World Tour, and it was a hundred and forty dates.
That's a lot.
Around the world. And my audience was huge and it was, the pressure was insane.
And I got through a hundred dates and did it, and I think I did those hundred dates without cancelling anything. And then
throughout the tour, I'd start to really start to realize that I'm not moving on stage the way that I want to.
Oh, yeah.
And the way that I'm dancing, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm playing straight. I'm like, to me, what that ever meant to me, but like, I'm, I'm kind of moving. I'm not moving in the way that I move when I'm out at the club with my friends. Cause I'm, I'm quite a femme mover and dancer. And so I'm, I'm like trying to enjoy my shows and dance, but I couldn't move in, in the way that I wanted to. And so that, that created this dialogue within me like, what's, what's happening here? And then I started to realize, oh God, there's this, there's a secret I have that I haven't shared with the world, I haven't shared with my team, and that is that I'm femme. That I'm a femme queer person.
And so that became bigger, this, this pressure became bigger and bigger and bigger.
Within yourself.
Within myself.
Yeah, to share it.
To share it and no, I knew that I had this secret that I had to share. And it all came to fruition. I was in South Africa and I was, I, I would, I was, I thought I was doing fine and getting through everything, but I was on the stage and I was like three, four songs in. And I just like, something in my brain switched. And then I had a massive panic attack.
On stage?
Four songs in, on stage.
Oh my god.
Managed to hide it from the audience, but walked offstage. And I've never done this in my life. I'd walked offstage and just walked directly into my car. And I said, I need to go. And I went to the hotel and had to cancel thirty shows.
Oh.
And I stopped performing for about a year and a half. Um, I didn't talk about it publicly and I'm happy I didn't because.
At the time?
At the time.
Because I, I, I'm happy I didn't talk about it because I was able to heal without the pressure of everyone knowing that.
I was having panic attacks, so.
That would be the worst.
Yeah, yeah. So when I go back on stage, I could actually like have a chance at dealing with it privately.
Um, but that was the hardest part for me because my body just went. This character that we're doing right now, it's done.
It rejected it.
Isn't it weird how the body, well, they say that with that book, the body keeps score?
It really is a thing.
It's wild. It's actually, and it's a lovely thing.
It's like.
It's self-protective.
Yeah, your brain is only one part of your whole body. Your whole body's moving it.
You know, you've got to listen to it. And so I stopped and that's when I, I had lots of therapy. I realized that, you know, this is, I'm showing facets of myself to the public through my music. And I'm very famous and successful because of this. But I am, there's more, there's more to me that needs to be shared.
You know, and, and so I did. And I found the courage.
That's beautiful. Did you feel like at that time, was it all making its way into the music you were making?
So, so the music was telling all the sort of insides of you?
Yeah, I think it was. And that's why I get so frustrated with them, with the way that my music is taken sometimes. Because my, my third and my fourth album became more and more commercial and more pop.
And, um, I've been, I guess you could hear that money was in the room when, when, when, when you listen to that music. Cause there's, there's, they're formulaic and they're, um.
I think that some people look at it as if I sold out sometimes.
Don't think about that.
No, but I spent years thinking about it. Even now, to this day, when I'm releasing new music now, people are saying, you know, I've heard, I now don't listen to anything, but I heard someone say recently, this new song's so authentic. It's so nice for them to hear them doing what they want to do. I suppose what the label has forced them to do on the last few albums.
Which is not the case.
Well, it's not the case because to understand my third and fourth record, you have to understand the context of what it is to be queer and famous at 25 years old.
And so I was making music that I was being, I wasn't like, I've never been like a cool queer person, where I like, where you won't find me in like deep Brooklyn, like listening to like incredible like house music and stuff. I feel quite alienated from those rooms a lot of the time. I'm kind of more of like a radical centrist queer person. You'll find me in Stonewall, like you'll find me in those parts of gay culture. I like to be in the centre and I always like to be kind of around, yeah, just around the centre of queerness in that way. On those high streets that have all that history around, I enjoy that.
And so the music that I was exposed to and have been from when I was finding myself in my twenties was like real, like down, straight down the middle pop music, incredible pop music.
The anthems.
The anthems and also the kind of like, I don't want to bad mouth the pop that I'm talking about when I'm saying this, but just like, I don't know, like, it's so weird. There's like some songs that I've loved from girl groups that I've been obsessed with for a long time. And I've even met the writers behind it who have kind of said, oh, we wrote that as a joke. And I'm like, well, it's not a joke to me. I love that song. I like dance to it. It's my going out song. And so I'm very proud of those records and within those records, there's fantastic moments. But there's also. Moments that I I've learned a lot from. And so, yeah, I I get annoyed that people don't understand the context of my music sometimes.
And they they compare me to straight counterparts that where where context is important.
You can't, yeah, tho- tho- those opinions will hang you up.
And they will mess you up.
You can't, yeah, push them aside.
I have to.
It's something I I I'm just coming to grips with even now, like.
Yeah, I learned that lesson after my first record.
Did you?
Yeah, I stopped reading anything because it just hurt my feelings.
Even though a lot of it was so good, all you, again, all you see is the negative.
It's really hard to see all the good sometimes.
You just focus on the like one little negative thing.
See, I'm a sucker for like, I think it's probably down to my my my upbringing. I think a lot of queer people as well are hard on themselves. So I think.
Oh, yes, of course.
I see it as like, I thought it was positive to like whip myself like that, but it's not. And I'm realizing that now.
No, no, I'm sure, you know, the baggage we all carry is different. But I'm sure it's it's pretty deep. It goes pretty deep for you.
Yeah, it does. And it's just, it's a learning and it's a practice. And I'm getting so much better at it. But I just, I do, I am just a big kind of, I I'm a cheerleader for the music, for my music.
Yeah, well, your music is beautiful. And I wanted to ask also, it's a dance music. I mean, you go out and dance?
Yes, I do.
At the clubs, like?
A little bit, not anymore, actually.
But before?
Before, when I was younger, I did, yeah. But it was more, it was, it wasn't necessary to dance. It was more to pop.
There's just pop stars, pop girls doing what they do, you know? I'm just, I'm, I'm, everything that I'm inspired by is from women. That's the truth, the whole way through, you know? It's only a few men I listen to.
Yeah, and I just love listening to stories from women.
That's beautiful.
Greatest.
If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before
the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party systems, cloud platforms, data pipelines, AI
models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Ana Paula Ace and Axe as CIO, Giovanni Doniello, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Well, you want to try another song?
Yeah, I love the song, I'm Not The Only One. I just love that piano part.
I know. Is that insane?
Yeah, who played that?
Jimmy Napes. He wrote that and he played it. And we actually wrote a completely different song to those chords.
Oh, really?
Which, which wasn't great. And then like a few weeks later, I was just like, we have to go back to those chords because there's something about those chords.
They're so good. And just the way he plays them.
And then we redid it and took a second crack at it. And then we wrote this, which is, which is amazing.
It's great. Is this on your first album?
This is on my first album. Yeah, this is, it's a song about, I was, I was very young and I was completely besotted and in love with a straight guy who didn't, nothing physical happened between us. So it wasn't a relationship. It was pure, unrequited love. And he was actually married. And he was not faithful.
To his wife. And I would witness this sometimes.
But not, yeah.
Without, um, without him. Like, if we were out and about, I'd see him flirt with people. And it would break my heart, seeing it happen. And it's someone that I loved, but also I was just so upset and angry that he was doing this, um, in his life. And so, this is a song that I wrote from her perspective.
Wow. Yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking.
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
You and me, we made a vow.
For better or for worse, yeah.
And I can't believe you let me down. But the proof's in the way it hurts.
For months, all enough and my doubts. Denying everything.
And I wish this would be over now. But I know that I still need you, dear.
You say I'm crazy. Cause you don't think I know what you've done. But when you call me baby, I know I'm not the only one.
You've been so unavailable.
Now sadly, I know why.
Your heart is unattainable. Even though, Lord knows, but you can't mine.
You say I'm crazy. Cause you don't think I know what you've done.
But when you call me baby, I know I'm not the only one.
And I've loved you for many years.
Baby, I am just not enough.
You made me realize my deepest fears. And by lying, it's every result. You say I'm crazy. Cause you don't think I know what you've done.
And I know I'm not the only one.
And I know, and I know, and I know, and I know, and I know, no. I know I'm not the only one.
I know.
I had to do one more round.
I love it.
After singing that song, "I'm Not The Only One", I, we have both had like an album that is, that was from my first album and that album is kind of, it's just so, it's spread far and wide in such a beautiful way. Does it, I've, I've started to get used to it now and I'm starting to be okay with it. But as I'm getting older, it's like, it's so, it feels hard, hard sometimes and hurt sometimes. When you're bringing out music, I bring out music now that I think is, is getting better and, and, and maturing and everything. But all people want to hear is me sing that song.
And it's, I just like, you're one of very few people that I think can relate to me in terms of like having, like having an album spread far and wide like that. Do you ever feel that? Do you, did you ever feel resentment?
I never felt resentment, but on my first album, I was still really new to songwriting. So I only wrote, there were only three songs on my first album that I wrote. So I think there was a little bit of a, over the years, I still feel connected to the album, of course, but I feel more connected to the ones I wrote. And, but the bulk of the album, I really didn't write. My bass player wrote and my guitar player at the time wrote. And they're still really close to me. But there is something different about singing your own words.
It's really different. So on your first album, you wrote all the songs.
I did, but, but they were also, I was co-writing for the first time ever too. So I can relate to that.
Which is a whole thing, yeah.
You know, I, I was still very much there and writing, but my writing has, has got more and more me, I guess, as I've got older, so.
Yeah, and you feel more yourself in writing.
And I don't, I'm learning to not feel resentment because it's a beautiful thing.
No, it's a beautiful thing. I think it's easy to feel resentment. I don't know if I ever felt like true resentment, but I definitely. I have felt really lucky, but I think you also create the path you're on. Even though it's luck, it's also you're creating it as you go along. And I think there's something really special about an artist who can get to 10 years in. You're 10 years in, I'm over 20 years in now from my first album. And I do feel like I'm still releasing music that I really believe in. And I feel like even if it loses some of the audience, a lot of the audience does connect to it. And I feel like by going out and playing shows and like being inspired. I'm very inspired. The last 10 years, I've felt more inspired than ever.
And especially in writing and playing live. And I think you're doing everything right. You're surrounding yourself with a band you love. And you're playing these shows at the Warsaw and you're connecting with people in a special way. And I think people, once you get 20 years out, you'll see that whatever you're doing right now, put all that sort of work into keeping people connected to what you're doing at the moment.
It's just blocking out the noise.
Yeah. Yeah, don't think about that. Because you win some, you lose some. I learned that with my first record even. My first record was a massive success. It was, it was one of those like crazy things, you know? And even then, people talk about, you know, again, seeing the negative. And so I learned at that moment, I'm just gonna do what makes me happy. I mean, the first album, I was doing what made me happy. That's how it came to be. But, okay, I'm not gonna worry about the second album thing. I'm not gonna try to recreate it. I'm just gonna let it be what it was. I probably won't sell as many records, cuz that is crazy. And I'm okay with that.
And I just wanna stay inspired. Because there was a moment at the end of That whole year and a half of the first record, I was on tour and all of a sudden I wasn't happy. And I was like, what is happening? And it was because it was too much. And it was, I think I was just doing too much press and I just, I was like, we're pushing this album. It's already crazy. Why are you making me do all this stuff that I don't want to do, you know? Let's just play music. That's what, that's what this is about. And so I took a step back and that's when I kind of realized that. So from then, I really just tried to keep it focused on the things that bring me joy.
It's beautiful.
You know, and that's a lucky, very lucky place to be.
Yeah, it sounds like you have amazing like compass within you and yeah, it's, I, I feel like I, I just jumped straight into the monster's mouth.
Yeah, but I think, I think you also.
Dive into the guts and then crawl back out again.
Well, you, you're out.
Yeah, I'm out.
You're out.
I'm out, I'm out, I'm out. And now the monster's my friend.
Yeah, the monster's your friend. It's fine. Yeah, I think we all find our ways eventually and it's when, when people don't that it's really.
Oh, God.
A shame, you know?
Yeah, I think that's what people don't realize about this world of music and, and pop stardom and, and I think fame, you know?
Fame is something that, that can kill you and it's.
Yeah, it's not for everyone.
No, it's not.
Not everyone can handle it.
No.
And you feel, I feel lucky also, I've had good people around me. Do you feel?
Oh, my God, yeah.
Yeah, it seems like you have.
If I speak about it too much, I'll always cry.
Yeah, there's just like, I have the most amazing family.
That's so beautiful.
I do, and I have the most amazing team. Like my manager, Jack, is just an absolute anchor and he's one of my best friends and he has grown with me and learned with me and.
Moved and learned how to flow with me in such a beautiful way. And everyone in my team, I've just, I've, I've, I've. And I'm very thankful actually to the artists that came before me in the UK. And something that I've been learning about recently through, do you know Anoni?
Yeah, me too.
They're incredible and she's, she's such an amazing person, human artist and teacher. And recently has guided me a little bit and it's just awakened me to just the people that came before me, Boy George and them and George Michael. And all these amazing queer artists that have come before me in my life and made it possible for me to have a chance at a healthy crack at this world of music, you know?
And so it's, I'm very lucky, I'm very, very lucky. And I've been able to keep my composure. And also part of, part of my queerness has allowed me to do that too. I never had like, I never went, I was, became very well known, where everyone knew who I was. But I never had like the screaming girls outside the house or the, you know, all of that stuff.
I'd walk into gay bars and everyone being like, who the are you?
Yeah. Which was kind of, it was annoying at the time, but also just like very, very humbling.
Very, very humbling because, you know, a lot of queer bars and queer people, they care more about straight girl pop stars.
That's very funny.
So it's always been a beautiful, safe space to land, you know?
And grounding.
Yeah, well, I'm happy for you.
I'm very proud of you somehow.
Thank you, that makes me so happy.
As an older, but yeah, it's been beautiful watching your whole, whole journey. And the music, let's get back to the music. Did you, you grew up in church because you seem to love gospel music and the harmonies sort of lend itself to that.
I grew up in church, really, the church, I mean, when I get down to it, I think that the music that my mum played at home. And the songs that she would be drawn to from Aretha Franklin.
Me too.
Shakka Khan.
George Michael, Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston.
When I go, when I go back to those origins of when I first started listening to music and what, I was surrounded by Luther Vandross.
Hmm.
Was a huge one, actually, one of the biggest.
It, it, it all came from the church.
Definitely.
You know, and all of my mum's favourite songs of theirs came from the church.
And so that was my exposure. And then I also went to church from a young age. I went to Catholic school until I was eighteen.
Did you sing in the choir?
I sang in the choir the whole time.
So Latin hymns?
Latin hymns.
Yeah, which I found tough. But then there was some moments in my secondary school where I had some amazing music teachers. They, they loved some gospel songs and they would have me and the choir sing some of those songs in church too.
So I got to experience that in church and so it's a part of my life. I wouldn't sound religious. I'm, I'm a spiritual person now.
But I would always feel connected and there's certain words that come, that find their way into my music that come from the church. And I think it's because there's certain feelings that are so big and I revert to those words to explain those feelings sometimes, you know.
But yeah, they become universal in a, in a deep way.
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, but I love gospel music and as I've got older, it's just become more and more of a passion and a love.
How many singers do you have in your band?
I only have three. I mean, on all of the songs that I, that you hear choirs on, on my music before my, the music I'm working on now was me. It was just loads of me.
I love doing that. It's so fun.
Which is so fun, so fun.
Well, you said in the text message, you don't sing harmony.
No, well, I, I do sing harmony when I'm layering like that. I enjoy that.
You don't think and dream in harmony?
You don't like harmonise? I always go to the background singer when I'm singing along to Aretha. Well, yeah, I always.
No, I'm always obnoxiously like kind of duetting.
I always go to the backgrounds or the harmonies and that's what I hear.
Wow, beautiful. No, I'm always, I find, I find music like harmonizing and stuff like that. I find it quite daunting sometimes because I don't have the brain for it. I'm more of a jazz singer, I'd say. And that's more of my main influences have come from jazz as well.
Like Frank Sinatra in my house was a massive thing. And Winehouse was a huge thing in my house. And then that led me to Sarah Vaughan.
Sarah Vaughan's one of my favorites.
I think she's my favorite artist of all time.
You know that version of My Funny Valentine where she goes all, all over the place?
Oh my.
My funny, it's so good.
Her singing Misty.
It's so pretty.
Is just my favorite thing.
So, but yeah, I just, I love music and I, and I'm trying to honor those roots more and more in the music that I'm making now, which is amazing. And I'm actually, I've worked with incredible choir called the Two City Choir. They're from Philly and from all over actually, and they've come to New York a few times now.
And they're on the song To Be Free.
Okay, that's who that is on the line. That's beautiful.
And they're insane and like.
Yeah, well, it just feels so right.
Well, I'm feeling from moving to New York, I'm finally feeling that I'm actually got some exposure now to players and musicians that are actually fit more into what I've always been inspired by.
The music you came up with.
Yeah, because I came up with American music.
I love American music and so it's, you know, I sing in American. You know, I don't sing in English, in British, you know? So there's moments you can hear it, but I mainly sing in American. So I, I, it's been amazing to be in New York and actually like be close to some people where you're like, oh. That would sound amazing. That bass player would sound insane on this. And then you start, it's amazing, but there's still incredible talent in the UK that has pulled that together in the past.
Yeah, no, it's just a different scene and it's maybe bigger here.
It's bigger and you're also just like you're rooted to the earth.
And like-
Of what you're doing.
Of what you're doing, like just listening to jazz music and walking around Manhattan. Like, that's what I do now. I listen to, I put on my jazz music and I walk around Manhattan and do my errands. And it's amazing, there's something different about this to jazz in New York. I don't know what it is.
It feels different being here.
Yeah, it feels more authentic.
Because some of it was recorded just down the street.
Yeah. I had that experience the other night. We were listening to a live Bill Oven's album from the Village Vanguard and we're like thinking, that was recorded right over there.
That's insane.
Yeah, it's cool.
So the spirit of the, and there's a romance to New York that I, that suits me very well. I love it.
That's good. You're still in the honeymoon phase.
Oh, for sure, for sure. I mean, I've had tough moments the last year where I've been like, get me out of here.
I'm still trying to find where that is. I think I'm gonna go to the jungle.
That's where you wanna live next?
No, I think I wanna always live in New York, but I think I wanna-
This is the jungle.
If I, if I am, if I'm lucky enough to be able to afford somewhere to escape to, like a little shack, I think I just wanna go to the jungle.
That's funny.
Cause I feel like I live in the jungle now in New York. But then, so I think, like, I've been going to the jungle over the last few years.
You have?
Yeah, Costa Rica.
Oh, I love it.
And like going, I've also gone to the Caribbean a bit more, cause it's only three hours away from here. And I'm just like, I think I might be in my tropical era.
That's amazing. When I hear that, all I think about is mosquitoes.
Oh my god, so intense.
I'm a magnet.
Same.
That's my only problem.
They love me, I'm like a cream puff.
They love me. But you just gotta spray, just get in on the spraying.
I know, I'm just bad at it.
The more you live there, you acclimatize.
I think.
They stop liking the way you taste, I guess.
Yeah, and also people just don't stay outside that much.
I've noticed.
People that live there, like, there's certain hours of the day to stay in and out.
You go in.
Whereas when we're there, we're just like trying to soak up the sun.
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If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.
Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello, hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Acees about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.
AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.
Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.
This is Colin Cowherd from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. All starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. For a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.
Well, I saw something that you posted the other day. You did this beautiful Tom Petty cover.
Oh gosh, yeah.
Yeah. I first heard that song in a film called Elizabeth Town.
Oh, I didn't know the song.
It's amazing. It's in a film called Elizabeth Town with Kirsten Dunst and Orlando Bloom.
I remember that movie, yeah.
Which was a beautiful film, but that song just knocked me sideways when I watched that film. And so I've loved that song for a while. And it's also been like a little, like when I had my big first heartbreak, I turned to this song a lot. But there was just, when I was putting this show together for the Warsaw, there was just this, I was singing Stay With Me. And I just really wanted to start telling some real stories at the Warsaw about that people have never heard.
It's real life. I went through a copyright issue with, with Tom Petty for the song Stay With Me.
And it just like, it was such a hard thing.
That was on your first album.
So my first album.
That must have felt so bad.
It was, it was so bad. I was so, I was so, I was just so confused firstly because I was, I come from a hill in the middle of England.
I didn't know who Tom Petty was. I'm gay. Like, some gay people might have known who Tom Petty was when they were like 11 years old, not me.
I was just listening to women sing the whole time. And his beautiful music never made its way to my heart until later on. So when that happened, it was, it felt like I was being robbed.
Well, it feels like a shaming sort of thing.
Yeah, yeah, it makes me, yeah, and it, because it was in the news everywhere. It was almost like everyone being like, you're not an original, you know?
Yeah, like stripping you of your, your whatever, your medals or something at the end of the, like the Olympics or something.
Yeah, and then when it got to the Grammys though, I think that there was probably people that wanted me, you know, taken out of the Grammys and all of that stuff.
That's so ridiculous.
Because they didn't want me to, because there was a reason for me to not be, you know, awarded for that song. So it was, it was, it was hard, it was confusing and frustrating.
And he, he wrote me a letter. The night before the Grammys, a letter came to my door and he wrote me a letter. And he was so sweet in the letter. He did say in the letter, he said, I'm sorry this is all happening.
I think you're amazing. And he said, there's only so many notes on the piano in the letter.
Which, if I'm honest at the time, made me annoyed because I was like, if you, if you know that.
Then why?
Then why are we doing this?
Do you know what I mean? Like, why has this happened if you, if you're aware of that? But it's this, what people don't know about this stuff is it's more than just the artists.
It's everyone around them and, and the whole infrastructure of things that come into play.
But when I got the note, I was a little bit annoyed, but also touched. And I, at the time, I was 22. And I went from working in a bar to being known around the world and traveling around the world touring within two years. So I had trauma that happened within those years to my body and my brain. And so I didn't get to respond to him for a couple of years. And I'm so upset with myself that I never did write back. But I didn't write back and he died.
So you never got to?
And I never got to write back. And I feel awful about it and still do. And that's why there's a healing going on now for me when I, I want to sing this song and I want to. I think I actually want to sing more of his songs maybe. And like every now and then put them into my set as just an ode to him because I feel connected to him. We, we're connected to each other some way.
And so I did it and it felt really, really good to do it.
Yeah, I loved the way you posted about it as well. It was really beautiful, but that story is insane.
It is insane.
It is insane. And it's like the, the worst part is I never actually listened to I Won't Back Down, the song for years. And then like five years later, I listened and I was like, oh my God, like it's the exact same.
You heard it.
It's the exact same, but it's, I mean, it's.
But it's still, it's, yeah, but it's so different. Yeah, but they're so.
That's it.
Such different songs.
And there are only twelve notes on the piano.
There are, there are. And I did it differently and he did it differently. And there was probably someone before him.
Yes, most likely.
Did it differently too, you know, so it's it's an interesting one. But it's definitely, definitely changed my, you know, look, I I don't know how I'd feel if someone actually ripped. Like if someone had released a song that sounded exactly like
To be free or or something like that. I don't know how I would feel in the moment. But it what has happened to me will a hundred percent come into play a little bit.
And I'm not sure if I would go forth.
You'd go after someone.
Yeah, that's a really traumatic thing to happen, I feel like, as a young person.
Thrust into the the world of of music, you know.
Yeah, and the one thing I would definitely implore is when this does happen, talk to each other.
Yeah, yeah.
Artist to artist, if that is possible.
You know, but lawyers will be like, don't do that.
Don't do that, don't do that.
But like it would, I just wish that, especially when there's two well known artists that are both like, you know, in pop music and it's and it's happened, like, sit and talk to each other.
But again, everybody's got so many people surrounding them that are doing different things.
There's money, right?
Well, I mean, I think it's obvious when you hear something that is a real rip off.
Like, you know, I hear all these songs on the radio and I'm like, that is the product. It's more about the production usually, I feel like.
Yes.
They're just trying to get the exact vibe of the song from thirty years ago or whatever it was.
Um, and that does happen.
That happens, but.
It does happen and it actually happens subconsciously too.
It does.
And you've got to be able to hold your hands up and be like, that's happened.
I do think that people can also take into account when dealing with the procedures, what that, what the artists are going through, you know, if you're, if you're a very prolific artist that has has your career and has all this money behind you, then maybe you can be graceful.
A little graceful, yeah.
But I think it's really sweet.
And Tom was graceful, by the way.
Yeah, he was. It sounds like he was.
Even in the what ended up happening with that song legally, he was graceful. So I was lucky.
Well, I like that you're doing this song and I like that it's your way of writing him back.
I think it's very sweet.
Okay, and what a, what a song.
It's such, well, he has so many great songs, but this is one I had never heard. And I thought I'd finally heard them all, but it happened.
Lyrics, just like, I love it so much.
Yeah, they're beautiful.
I want to do it. I did it differently where there was more breaks in between each thing, but you'll hear it when we do it.
Do you want to lead the bits then?
I think so, yeah.
That way I won't go to the chord until you do the pickup?
Is that cool?
Okay, that'll help me.
Not jump the gun. We'll see what happens.
I can sit for this one.
Okay, cool.
He wore faded jeans and soft black leather. His eyes so blue, they looked like weather.
When he needed me, I wasn't around. That's the way it goes. It'll all work out.
There were times apart, there were times together. I was pledged to him through worse or better.
When it mattered most, I let him down. That's the way it goes. It'll all work out.
It'll all work out eventually. Better off with him than here with me.
It'll all work out eventually Better off with him than here with me
Now the wind is high and the rain is heavy And the world is rising in the living
Still I think of him when the sun goes down It never goes away, but it all works out
It'll all work out eventually Better off with him than here with me It'll all work out eventually Better off with him than here with me
Oh, you made me cry.
I tried not to cry that whole time.
That turned into such a sad heartbreak.
It makes me tearful. The way you play is so beautiful.
Thank you. The way you say it's so beautiful.
It's funny because the Tom version of the song is so like, it's like Irish a must.
Yeah, it's like Irish with like a, there's a, it's a, feels like a, an Asian instrument, right?
And it's like some, a Chinese instrument.
Yeah, I think so.
From what I can hear.
It's amazing.
Well, that was beautiful.
That was beautiful. It's, it's like singing it now is like, it, it's an emotional song for me, but like with the story that I'm telling, it's also like, the, the, the lyrics is like, when it mattered most, I let him down. That's the way it goes all the way. I'm just like, it feels like, I feel it's, I don't know. There's so many moments like that I've, I've had in my life, especially with artists. I look back at the beginning of my career and I'm like, that person wrote to me. That person said something to me and I'm, I didn't.
And you didn't write back?
I didn't write back. Sometimes I didn't keep the letters.
I have a few of those too.
And it's, it's not, it's just because I was running at such a high speed that I, I, I didn't treasure those moments enough sometimes, you know?
Yeah, I, I have those situations too.
Yeah, it's weird.
People, I have messages that I never called the person back. And I think it was part anxiety too. It was part busyness, but part anxiety of not knowing how to.
How to fully do it.
How to do it.
I remember the first time I met Beyonce and I've met her a few times now, but I'm, I'm always so ashamed of the first time I ever met her. She invited me into her dressing room and I'm such a huge Beyonce fan. She was, and is always my ultimate, I think actually, in, in today's times. And I went into her dressing room and she was there in her private space and I asked for a picture.
And you felt bad about that?
I felt awful and I still do to this day because it's like, it's just like. Now I know how it feels.
To have someone in your space and like, I was still very kind and sweet and thankful. And I'm sure she's used to that happening a lot.
I'm sure.
I'm just like, damn it, I wish I was cooler. I wish I was cooler. And I just didn't do that because I didn't need it.
I didn't need a picture.
Didn't need a picture, you know?
Don't beat yourself up.
I won't, I won't.
I beat myself up about stuff like that too, but I think it's okay.
We're all human.
Yeah. But yeah. Well, now you're present and.
Now I'm present, now I'm present.
Well, here's the thing though, people who reached out to us when we were little babies, starting out, they were already past where we are now.
So they understood.
They understood.
It's okay.
Yeah, for sure. You're so right.
And when we're older, maybe we'll reach out more. I'm not good at that. Do you reach out?
I used to, I, I used to. There was like, I remember when like Billie Eilish came up and a few people, it was like, I just survived my wave of stuff and I, and I felt, I, I wrote a few notes to people just saying like, I'm always here.
And then I just kind of realized that like, that's very different, what they're going through to what I'm going through. This isn't some, this isn't something that's the same.
You know, it's not like.
And then you got self-conscious about the letter.
Yeah, of course. That's me. I'm just like, all the time.
Wait, so did you send it?
I did send it and they replied and they, and they, and I saw them at their show in London and they were wonderful to me and, and very sweet and, and was great. But I definitely realized in that moment that that's probably not my role in.
An industry. I think that I, if anyone, you know, if anyone ever needs me or wants to talk to me, I'm there.
And I would love to. That'd be fabulous.
But you're not gonna impose yourself.
I'm not gonna impose myself because we're just so different. This isn't like a race. It's not a race.
It's a, music is so personal and what you go through and what I go through is so different, like just my, just being queer myself and, and like what I'm, and what you've gone through in your life, it's just so, it's so singular. I see all these amazing artists come up and like, they really are just amazing. They're amazing.
It's kind of crazy, yeah.
Well, you're one of them and um, thank you so much for doing this.
Thank you, thank you.
This is kind of my way of doing that is getting to be with people and share things with them.
And what an amazing thing to do. It's just, it feels, you made me feel very safe today.
So thank you, thank you. And like, just singing, hearing you play that song just there, just a highlight for me.
Well, I hope I can come to Warsaw one night. I can't wait.
Please, please come.
Yeah. Yay.
That made me happy. Oh, that was incredible.
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I love all their stories.
I know. What a human.
And that's the thing about the residencies, I think, is like, you can hear more of these stories, the stories behind the music, you know, which is really such a big part of it.
I think these residencies are kind of, I think they're what a lot of artists want to do nowadays. I've talked about doing something like that, too. It just feels like a really beautiful way to connect with people and to sort of also not be so hard on yourself. Touring can be a hard life, so it's kind of a nice way to plant yourself somewhere and just
To be free. Do the thing.
Yeah. If you'd like to know what songs we played today, we did the song "To Be Free" that Sam just released in 2025. We also did "I'm Not The Only One" from In The Lonely Hour, which was released in 2014.
And we did "It'll All Work Out," the Tom Petty song from "Let Me Up, I've Had Enough," released in 1987. Special thanks to Sam Smith for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Nate Smith. Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry, audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler, artwork by Eliza Frye, photography by Shirvin Linaz, produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda, executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runthog, marketing lead Queen Anaki.
If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Niall Rogers. This new series follows Niall as he travels across the country, talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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