Pod Insights Noble Blood Who's Afraid of the Duchess of Newcastle (Part One) About this episode In 'A Room of One's Own,' Virginia Woolf writes of Margaret Cavendish's reputation: "Evidentally the crazy Duchess became a bogey to frighten clever girls with." Dismisses as mad in her own time, and untalented later, Cavendish remains something of an enigma, a strange proto-feminist, proto-science fiction writer who remained entirely untamed.
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0:44 Dana Schwartz? Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. Listener discretion advised.
0:54 Dana Schwartz? If you've been listening to the show for a while, you're probably wondering why it's taken me so long to discuss any royal from the Kingdom of Esfi. Really, the truth is, I'm embarrassed. It's been a real oversight on my part, and I'm taking full responsibility and rectifying it immediately. Just kidding, I can't take this bit any further, mainly because the notion of England and France under a single monarchy is too absurd. That's what the Kingdom of Esfi is. It's an acronym for England, Scotland, France, and Ireland. And it is, in fact, a fictional land in the 1666 proto-science fiction novel, The Blazing
1:39 Dana Schwartz? World. In the young novel, a young woman from Esfi, E-S-F-I, is kidnapped onto a boat by a spurned lover. This act angers the gods, who blow the boat to the North Pole and spare only the young woman from hypothermia. From there, the ship floats into a parallel land called The Blazing World, a utopia populated by human-animal hybrids who believe the young woman is a goddess. This new empress, a student of the natural sciences and philosophy, uses her powers to open schools and form societies of learning, consulting with various human-animal specialists.
2:24 Dana Schwartz? For example, the parrot men are orators and logicians, and the fox men are politicians, and spider men, unfortunately more arachnid than superhero, are mathematicians. This woman empress decides to create her own religion, but she knows she'll need a scribe to aid her. She asks the spirit to call upon the souls of ancients like Aristotle and Plato, but they reply that those writers are too wedded to their own opinions to be scribes for someone else. Then the empress requests a famous, modern for her, writer like Galileo or Descartes,
3:05 Dana Schwartz? but the spirits say that those men are far too conceited to be scribes for a woman. And so instead, they offer, "There's a lady, the Duchess of Newcastle, which although she is not one of the most learned, eloquent, witty, and ingenious, yet she is a plain and rational writer, for the principle of her writings is sense and reason, and she will, without question, be ready to do you all the service she can." Incredibly complimentary and a little effusive, especially considering that the Duchess of Newcastle also happened to be the author of that book, The Blazing World.
3:49 Dana Schwartz? The Blazing World was jointly published with the Real Duchess's nonfiction work, Observations Upon Experimental Philosophy. The author saw them as companions. Though the genres of the two books were quite literally worlds apart, the Duchess believed that the fictional Blazing World reflected scientific and philosophical ideas from the real world. Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, was undoubtedly a trailblazer in both worlds. As a science-minded writer, she was the very first woman to attend a meeting of the Royal
4:30 Dana Schwartz? Society, which wouldn't admit women as members, until 1945. She published more than a dozen original texts under her own name, in a time when doing so was still practically unheard of, becoming the first known woman to publish a collected volume of dramatic works. In her own time and throughout modern history, Margaret's transgressive approach to not only publishing, but life as a woman in the 17th century, has borne the weight of both renown and criticism. If you know Cavendish's name but are struggling to place exactly where you know her from,
5:11 Dana Schwartz? it's possible you've read Virginia Woolf's A Room of One's Own. In that book, Woolf writes, "What a vision of loneliness and riot the thought of Margaret Cavendish brings to mind, as if some giant cucumber had spread itself over all the roses and carnations in the garden, and choked them to death. What a waste that the woman who wrote, 'The best-bred women are those whose minds are civilized,' should have frittered her time away scribbling nonsense, and plunging ever deeper into obscurity and folly, till the people crowded round her coach when she issued out." End quote.
5:53 Dana Schwartz? Considering what a cultural juggernaut, a room of one's own, has been and remains in the canon of women's literature, you won't be surprised to learn it is difficult for modern scholarship of Cavendish's life and work to separate itself from Woolf's colorful analysis. But today, as we learn about the life and times of the Duchess of Newcastle, I invite you to consider that perhaps Margaret was someone who may have read that infamous cucumber description as a compliment. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is Noble Blood.
6:37 Dana Schwartz? Margaret Lucas was born in Essex in 1623. She was the youngest daughter of Thomas Lucas, an untitled but wealthy country landowner, and Elizabeth Leyton, a Londoner. Margaret's parents had a rough start. Margaret's older brother was conceived out of wedlock, and the scandal of that was made worse when Thomas was exiled that same year for dueling with a young courtier. He was not pardoned for years. His son was six by the time they first met. The fallout from all of that drama meant Margaret grew up disconnected from court life and London's social scene, despite the Lucas's previous years spent building
7:21 Dana Schwartz? favor as a new money family. Thomas ultimately died when Margaret was only two, leaving Elizabeth not only responsible for eight children, but for managing the family estate, the massive Lucas Manor, located on the grounds of St. John's Abbey in Colchester. Being the youngest of eight, having a single mother, and living on a vast estate, meant that Margaret had a certain amount of freedom growing up. As far as her education went, she had, as she later accounted, tutors for, quote, "singing, dancing, reading, writing, music, and the like."
8:02 Dana Schwartz? By "and the like," Margaret means other traditionally feminine pursuits. However, she goes on to note, quote, "My mother cared not so much for our dancing and fiddling as that we should be bred virtuously." Considering the circumstances and consequence of Margaret's mother's first pregnancy, you can probably guess why Margaret's mother prioritized virtue above all else in her daughters. This might be the part in a typical episode where I would move on to another topic, fast-forward through Margaret's life. But Margaret's education, or rather, lack thereof, has become a central point in her
8:45 Dana Schwartz? biography, thanks to "A Room of One's Own." Wolfe's criticism of Margaret's, quote, "overgrown" prose isn't an indictment of her talent, but rather, an indictment of a culture that doesn't prioritize women's education. Quote, "What could bind, tame, or civilize for human use that wild, generous, untutored intelligence?" Wolfe asked. "Without schooling," Wolfe argued, "Margaret's intelligence, quote, poured itself out higgledy-piggledy in torrents of rhyme and prose, poetry and philosophy." The future Duchess had a different view of things.
9:26 Dana Schwartz? She once wrote, "Learning is artificial, but wit is natural." Margaret was born in the cultural era of James I, who notoriously feared educated women. When asked if his daughter should receive a classical education, the king responded, quote, "To make women learned and foxes tame has the same effect, to make them more cunning." In the absence of a "uniquely progressive" father, women with "the natural wit," Margaret defends, "had to rely on that wit alone."
10:03 Dana Schwartz? It's fascinating to me that Wolf and James both chose the verb tame in their ideologically opposite arguments. I'll let you construct your own analyses on that, but tame is definitely not a word Margaret would ever use to describe herself. She was significantly younger than her other siblings, most of them marrying before she hit her pre-teens, so she picked up the favored pastime of many only children, creating worlds for herself. She lived in her imagination, later reflecting that she was, quote, "addicted from childhood
10:44 Dana Schwartz? to contemplation rather than conversation, to solitariness rather than society, to melancholy rather than mirth, to write with the pen than to work with a needle." Her first writing works were what she called "baby books," which she made out of paper and filled with illegible scribbles. Margaret may not have had a formal education, but she did have luck. The luck of being born into a wealthy family, the luck of being born with a natural curiosity, and the luck of having a mother who let her explore her passions freely, so long as those passions didn't involve boys.
11:28 Dana Schwartz? At the same time, Margaret herself felt that she was cursed. From her youngest to her eldest years, she suffered debilitating social anxiety alongside what she described as melancholy, but we might recognize today as a depressive disorder. If she was not in the presence of her mother or one of her siblings in public, she could barely function. She particularly adored her sister Catherine, but from that adoration stemmed more anxiety. When she stayed with Catherine and Catherine's husband, Margaret would often wake her eldest
12:09 Dana Schwartz? sister if she thought she was breathing too quietly, for fear she had died in her sleep. And Margaret would inspect Catherine's food for safety before meals.
12:20 Dana Schwartz? Margaret was clearly suffering from intense anxiety, even paranoia, but many of the young woman's fears about losing her family would tragically manifest as the country entered wartime. 1642 marked the beginning of the English Civil War between the Royalists and Parliamentarians, with Margaret's family strictly on the side of the former. The first major incident to affect the Lucas family was part of what historians now refer to as the Stour Valley Riots, a series of attacks against Royalists and suspected Catholics.
13:02 Dana Schwartz? In the midnight hours of August 22nd, 1642, Margaret's elder brother, Sir John Lucas, was busy preparing his horses and weapons to be sent to the Royalist forces. Unfortunately for John, his preparations had not been subtle, and townsfolk had suspected his plans for some time. A group of local Parliamentarians had been designated to watch the Lucas family home that night, and their stakeout ultimately escalated to ransacking the manor on the grounds of St. John's Abbey. In addition to the kinds of destruction you'd expect, records show the family coffins
13:46 Dana Schwartz? were stabbed through with swords, just to give you an idea how unpopular the Lucases and Royalists were. Where was a 19-year-old Margaret during this fateful night? We don't exactly know. Documentation is unclear, and there's no mention of the riots in the Duchess's later autobiography. That's not to say Margaret shied away from the subject of war. Her writing dives into discussing it both philosophically and materially. One quote from her autobiography reads, quote, "This unnatural war came like a whirlwind, which felled down my siblings' houses, where some were crushed to death, as my youngest
14:32 Dana Schwartz? brother, Sir Charles Lucas, and my brother, Sir Thomas Lucas." Yes, the war would ultimately claim the lives of two of Margaret's three brothers, while her mother and one of her sisters would also die during that same period. Before those fateful days, however, most of the family relocated to London, where they, as royalists, were in the minority. In the summer of 1643, parliamentary-led London was actively preparing for war. At the same time, Margaret was making a dangerous, and notably illegal, journey.
15:13 Dana Schwartz? Her 50-plus-mile trek took her from London to Oxford, where she was going to go to the frontlines to join the royalist army and meet Queen Henrietta Maria. Upon hearing that the Queen did not have, in her words, "the same number of maids of honour she was used to have," the horror, Margaret begged her family to let her go to Henrietta Maria's side. Margaret's mother and siblings were understandably reluctant to agree. After all, Margaret shut down in social situations without them, but Margaret was so persistent that they relented.
15:53 Dana Schwartz? When Margaret predictably begged her family to return, finding that her anxiety was, in fact, debilitating, her family made her stay, like the English court was sleepaway camp that she was committed to attending. Margaret's decision to join in spite of her limitations was representative of an underlying drive that would motivate her for the rest of her life. Margaret's shy, bookish disposition was accompanied by an intense desire to learn and observe, as well as the kind of self-importance you'd find in a wealthy, youngest daughter. In the absence of a university system that valued women, the kind that Wolfe advocated
16:36 Dana Schwartz? for, court was Margaret's only option to spread her wings in young adulthood. If you asked her, however, Margaret's decision was purely born out of her sense of duty as a good royalist daughter. As a royalist, Margaret almost certainly idolized Queen Henrietta Maria.
16:57 Dana Schwartz? The queen was a heavily publicized figure at that time, the subject of many headlines for her trip to Holland to pawn the crown jewels for war funds. When she returned, she toured the country with the king's army, where she was known to, as one account put it, "ride astride her horse without the effeminacy of a woman, and to live with her soldiers as if they were her brethren." As is expected, parliamentarian newspapers focused on building resentment toward her "supposed gender transgressions" instead of her politics. Quote, "This kingdom is woefully ruined," one read,
17:41 Dana Schwartz? "by a conjugal conspiracy, by a plot in matrimony." Henrietta Maria, in response to their claims, called herself the "she-majesty-generalissima", which, as far as I know, is still up for grabs as a drag name. In Margaret's 1662 play, Belle in Campo, Margaret writes of a general's wife, Lady Victoria, who assembles a troupe of wives to accompany their husbands to the front lines. Lady Victoria is described as the "generalesse", "instructurese, ruler and commanderess", and her troupe of women even don Amazonian armor to fight,
18:25 Dana Schwartz? ultimately winning a battle where the men fail. Lady Victoria delivers a speech condemning the "masculine sex", who believe that women "are only fit to breed and bring forth children", and contradicts the idea that women have, quote, "no ingenuity for inventions, nor subtle wit for politicians, nor judgment for counselors, nor secrecy for trust, nor method for keeping the peace, nor courage to make war." It's not hard to imagine from whom Margaret was drawing inspiration for Victoria in that proto-feminist piece of fiction.
19:05 Dana Schwartz? By the time Margaret arrived at the Queen's side in Oxford, however, the Queen wasn't exactly living in the barracks. Instead, she was residing in Merton College, where her rooms had been redecorated to model the royal household. As a maid of honor, Margaret's job would be to be, quote, "in presence." What did that mean? In practice, a lot of standing around. She would arrive at the Queen's presence chamber at 11 each morning and sit on the sidelines until Henrietta Maria wished for entertainment or needed news relayed. This continued all day until supper time,
19:49 Dana Schwartz? when the maids retired to their own chambers. To make sure strict household rules were followed, Margaret and her fellow maids were under constant surveillance by the appointed "Mother of Maids," who was to report them to the Lord Chamberlain for any transgressions. This was undoubtedly an oppressive environment for Margaret, who was used to her solitude. She later described herself in those early years at court as "like one that had no foundation to stand on." And she apparently was so afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing that she opted for near constant silence. In spite of her shyness, or perhaps because of it,
20:34 Dana Schwartz? Margaret was also known for designing her own clothes to her personal tastes, which often made her stand out, for better or worse, in such a conformist environment. They would also contribute to her later reputation as the, quote, "crazy Duchess." Things began to rapidly change at court in the summer of 1644. Henrietta Marie was at that time then heavily pregnant and began to fear for her safety and the safety of her unborn child in Oxford. So she and her court began a journey to leave England. After escaping in disguise, the group made it to Falmouth,
21:18 Dana Schwartz? where a ship was ready to take them to France. They set sail, but they were quickly pursued by cannon fire from a parliamentary ship. Henrietta Maria, like Margaret's Lady Victoria, decisively took charge of the situation. Margaret and her fellow ladies cried in horror when the Queen told the captain that, "In the event that escape became impossible, he was to blow up the ship, rather than let her be taken alive." Things did not become that dire, but as soon as they were clear of the political threat, nature's cruel neutrality offered another, as a terrible storm nearly destroyed the ship.
22:02 Dana Schwartz? Storms would ultimately become a repeated motif in Margaret's fiction. "The blazing world begins with one," and in a 1656 poem, Margaret tells the story of a woman who is shipwrecked in the "Kingdom of Sensuality," where she is sold into prostitution, shoots her would-be solicitor, and cross-dresses to escape by boat. That woman's second journey at sea brings another storm. "Fortune," Margaret writes, "irritated the gods against them, making the clouds and seas to meet them, showers to beat them, winds to toss them, thunder to affront them, lightning to amaze them."
22:46 Dana Schwartz? This description is evocative, but her own experience with a tempest is another traumatic event that Margaret avoids recounting in her memoir. We don't know how Margaret felt during this actually perilous journey, but through her prose, we can see storms become a source of both fear and awe, both a metaphor for trauma and a reflection of life's painful realities. The ship ultimately arrived in France, where Margaret would remain until 1651. If she felt isolated in the English court, the experience was magnified tenfold upon
23:29 Dana Schwartz? her arrival in the French court, where she could not speak the language fluently and where she was a sea away from her family.
23:41 Dana Schwartz? Despite all of that, Margaret managed to find a bright spot in a dark place. In 1645, Margaret and her ever-bored fellow ladies witnessed an exciting spectacle when one of the king's lords of the Privy Council arrived at the French court in a lavish carriage pulled by nine horses. This dramatic man was William Cavendish, the Marquis of Newcastle, and he would marry Margaret before the year was out. William was a prominent, respected literary and scientific patron. History has given a name, the Welbeck Academy, to the intellectual circle that he curated.
24:24 Dana Schwartz? He hosted many gatherings at Welbeck, the Cavendish family seat, for the likes of the playwright Ben Johnson, the philosopher Thomas Hobbes, the naturalist Robert Payne, and many more. However, William did not have a stellar reputation at the time of his flamboyant arrival, which was in reality, an elaborate display of supposed wealth designed to trick creditors into lending him more money. His name currently bore the weight of his rather disastrous loss as a commander in the Battle of Marston Moor, which was a loss so spectacular that he opted for a self-imposed exile.
25:09 Dana Schwartz? The writer and politician Sir Philip Warwick wrote that Cavendish was a generous, loyal man, but his failing was that he “had a tincture of a romantic spirit and had the misfortune to be somewhat of a poet.” That apparently made him a lousy general, but a wonderful match for our Margaret. Their attraction was quick and mutual. In Margaret’s own words, “William pleased to take some particular notice of me and express more than an ordinary affection for me.” More than ordinary may be an understatement.
25:51 Dana Schwartz? Between April and December of 1645, aka the beginning of their courtship to their marriage, Margaret wrote William at least 21 love letters. In response, he wrote her over 70 poems. That's more than one every two days. Their match was surprising due to, in part, the difference in their statutes, a 30-ish year age gap, and Margaret's earlier declaration that she generally shunned men's company as much as she could. Friends tried to keep them apart, Margaret's friends cautioning her that William had a
26:33 Dana Schwartz? reputation as a Casanova, William's friends reminding him of the out-of-wedlock circumstances of Margaret's eldest brother's birth and the scandal that still hung over the family name. But their protests were all in vain. It was love.
26:53 Dana Schwartz? In their courtship, Margaret was hindered by her own anxiety, but William understood her true nature and continued to pen passionate, sometimes excessively passionate, poems. I simply cannot continue this episode without reading you a couplet from a poem he wrote about the couple's age gap. Quote, "No man can love more or loves higher. Old and dry wood makes the best fire. If I have to sit with that innuendo, so do you." Margaret's letters to William are also the first pieces of writing we have from her. They were not just declarations of love, but observations of life at court and reflections
27:37 Dana Schwartz? of her own state of mind. "Suppose me now in a very melancholy humor," she writes to William, "for I see all things subject to alteration and change, and are hopes as if they had taken opium. But I should be lost to those things if I did not meet some of yours to restore me to myself again." Even in a simple letter at a low point, we can see Margaret's clever grasp of language. I find the description of "hopes as if they had taken opium" as a particularly evocative metaphor for the bleakness of depression.
28:16 Dana Schwartz? We also see how she had quickly come to rely on William to alleviate those dark thoughts in place of her mother and siblings across the sea. As a listener of the show, you may be waiting for the other shoe to drop, knowing how often unhappiness plagues marriages among nobility. But this is a rare noble-blood love story with a happy ending. Their marriage was both long-lasting and mutually supportive. William's unconditional support of his wife was more important than ever when it came to the issue of having children, or rather, not having children.
28:57 Dana Schwartz? It appears the couple did initially try, but after two years with no success, William sought a doctor for advice. The doctor essentially told William that Margaret's intense melancholy, which was believed at the time to be the result of an excess of black bile in the body, would make pregnancy and birth incredibly difficult and likely result in losing the child. William already had children, more importantly, heirs, from his first marriage. But he was disappointed to learn he would not have more with Margaret. Margaret was only disappointed on William's behalf, but noted that her apparent infertility,
29:41 Dana Schwartz? quote, "never lessened his love and affection for me." Not only did Margaret accept the reality that she would never become a mother, she fully embraced it. In her writings, she repeatedly explains how the absence of children and chores of, quote, "housewifery," as she described it, allowed her to devote her time to her true babies, her books. In her 1664 collection of fictional correspondence, Sociable Letters, Margaret even proposes the idea that having children is "gainless for women." Sons carry on the legacy of the father, while daughters will be, quote, "ingrafted into the stock of another family."
30:26 Dana Schwartz? Margaret takes this second notion even further. Daughters are to be accounted as movable goods or furniture. It would be easy to write that off as cynicism after her own experience, but even if there is some defensiveness present, there's no denying the fact that she's putting to paper ideas that wouldn't be part of mainstream feminist conversations or debates for centuries to come. Following their first few years of married life in Paris, the couple moved to Antwerp in the late 1640s, where they rented the house of the famous Flemish painter Peter Paul Rubens from his widow. Their desire to live in an artistic home
31:11 Dana Schwartz? apparently outranked their desire to live in a well-staffed home. Money was tight, with William still in debt, so they let go of most of their servants upon the move. What was a childless couple in a cultured home to do but create a space for intellectual gatherings? William, as we know, had the connections to do so. One dinner even hosted his friend Hobbes and his philosophical rival Descartes at the same table. I can imagine the atmosphere felt like talking politics with the family at Thanksgiving. A fixture in the home during this time was William's brother Charles.
31:54 Dana Schwartz? He either lived with or nearby to the couple during these years and became an important person in Margaret's life. The Cavendish brothers devoted time to giving Margaret the education that she was not afforded in her childhood. William, to his credit, had provided his own daughters from his first marriage with a rare formidable education. From her husband, Margaret learned about politics and history and became well acquainted with Hobbes's work on society and government. From her brother-in-law, she learned about science. Charles was a mathematician and was working on his own experiments in the new age of scientific discovery.
32:38 Dana Schwartz? He was a good teacher. He brought Margaret a model of the Copernican planetary system so she could visualize the movements and translated theories about atoms that were only available at the time in Latin. He also gave Margaret access to his experiments firsthand, which was her first time using a microscope. It would become a repeated point in later writings that Margaret, now somewhat famously, did not endorse the instrument that she called the "artificial informer", believing that it "more deludes than informs". One of her disavowals of the microscope,
33:23 Dana Schwartz? found in 1666's "Observations Upon Experimental Philosophy", focuses on the recent discovery that flies possessed clusters that contained about 14,000 eyes. We know today that that figure is a misconception, but flies do, in fact, have compound eyes made up of hundreds of smaller photoreceptors. Margaret's natural philosophy was grounded in the principles of reason and rationality, which she believed nature functions according to. In that case, what sense would it make that flies have thousands of eyes
34:06 Dana Schwartz? but can't see as well as humans do with two? In her words, "If two eyes be stronger than a thousand, then nature is to be blamed that she gives such a number of eyes to so little a creature. But nature is wiser than we or any creature is able to conceive, and surely she would not work to no purpose or in vain, but there appears as much wisdom in the fabric and structure of her works as there is variety in them." Margaret speaks of nature with a romantic, even religious reverence. Today, we understand that her perspective lacks nuance,
34:48 Dana Schwartz? but her work is also cautious of a very relevant subject: the hubris of man. While this work comes from a writer much more certain in her convictions, it was during this period of education, around 1650, that Margaret began writing formally, experimenting with essays, allegories, and more. In writing, Margaret found not only a way to understand the world, as she always longed to, but peace of mind in a way she had never experienced. In her words, "My mind is become an absolute monarch, ruling alone my thoughts as a peaceable commonwealth,
35:32 Dana Schwartz? and my life an expert soldier, which my lord," meaning William, "settled, composed, and instructed." This description tells us as much about Margaret's state of mind as it does her politics. Only a royalist could describe alleviation from their depression as a benevolent monarch enforcing peace. Putting aside the political implications for a second, however, this statement is also telling when juxtaposed against the perception of Margaret's work, popularized by Virginia Woolf. The "crazy" Duchess, who had become "a bogey to frighten clever girls with,"
36:15 Dana Schwartz? was, in fact, by her own analysis, at her most composed when writing. "She should have had a microscope put in her hand," Woolf declared. "She should have been taught to look at the stars and reason scientifically. Her wits were turned with solitude and freedom. No one checked her. No one taught her." We know that this was actually untrue. Margaret did have a microscope put in her hand. She just didn't like what she saw. She had teachers invested in her education, just not formal ones, and just not when she was exclusively young.
36:56 Dana Schwartz? Perhaps the truth is more simple than what Woolf tries to argue. Margaret had more passion for the written word than talent for it. To pursue that passion formally, for a woman of her time, was a remarkable feat in itself. While Margaret had found her passion, her career would not begin until she returned to England. In 1653, shoppers in London bookstores could find a rare sight, a book openly written by a woman. If they opened the cover of "Poems and Fancies", they would be greeted with a title page in large print,
37:40 Dana Schwartz? "Written by the Right Honour The Lady Margaret, Countess of Newcastle." As Wolfe remarked in "A Room of One's Own", "Any woman who published under her own name risked being thought a monster." Margaret agreed. "If I am condemned," she reflected, "I shall be annihilated."
38:06 Dana Schwartz? That's part one of our episode on Margaret Cavendish. But keep listening after a brief break to hear a little bit more about Virginia Wolfe's take on the crazy Duchess.
38:25 Speaker 02 Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.
38:43 Speaker 03 My small experience with the discrepancy in the business of music made me angry in the best way. And I wanted to, I wanted to finish. So I started really leaning into my therapy, trying to get down to like, what matters now? Somewhere, Miguelito felt like he didn't have a place to say how he felt. And music was the place that I went to, to say how I felt.
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39:15 Speaker 02 Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.
39:33 Speaker 03 Man, I'm a Black and Mexican kid from San Pedro, and I grew up in Inglewood as well. I never liked to be boxed in. Both of my parents colored outside of the line. I mean, even them being together at the time in L.A. was just not typical. And so I think that has always been a part of my DNA. There's a defiant something in me that feels like what we get to do with what we're given that's greater than us is to maybe connect people to ideas that they wouldn't naturally, you know, connect to. That's really me. I'm just kind of like defiant with love, though.
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40:18 Dana Schwartz? Wolf's opinions on Margaret's work were highly critical, yes, but also carried an undercurrent of admiration. In "The Common Reader," Wolf approaches Cavendish's work with a different perspective. Quote, "Though her philosophies are futile and her play is intolerable, the vast bulk of the Duchess is leavened by a vein of authentic fire. One cannot help following the lure of her erratic and lovable personality as it meanders and twinkles through page after page. Her simplicity is so open, her intelligence so active, her sympathy with fairies and animals so true and tender.
41:01 Dana Schwartz? She has the freakishness of an elf, the irresponsibility of some non-human creature, its heartlessness and its charm." While these compliments are arguably not very complimentary and surely double-edged, there is something genuinely earnest to them. Perhaps Wolf had some Cavendish in her after all.
41:32 Dana Schwartz? Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Height, and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk, with supervising producer Reema Ilkayali, and executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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