Pod Insights No Such Thing As A Fish No Such Thing As Meat And Greet About this episode Lou Sanders joins Dan, James and Andy to discuss Margate, murmuring, Morrissey and Medicine (Nobel Prize for...)
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0:27 Speaker 01 Hi, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of No Such Things as a Fish, where we were joined by the absolutely brilliant Lou Sanders. Now, you'll remember Lou because she's been on Fish a couple of times, I think. She's been on QI many, many times. She's an absolute favorite of ours. She's so, so funny, so, so brilliant. There's loads of things I could tell you about her. She's written books, she's on tour next year. But really, the best place to find out everything about her is to go to Lou Sanders, that's L-O-U-S-A-N-D-E-R-S dot com. And all of the information about her is there if you want to learn more, which I bet you will, because she is a real tour de force, and she definitely shows that off in this episode today.
1:10 Speaker 01 And of course, it would be remiss of me not to mention Club Fish. Go to patreon.com slash nosuchthingasafish and find out everything there is to get there. There is merch, there's bonus stuff, oh, there's all sorts. You know where to go. Patreon dot com slash nosuchthingasafish and find out more. Not much more to say apart from on with the podcast.
1:44 Speaker 02 Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn. My name is Dan Schreiber. I am sitting here with Andrew Hunter Murray, James Harkin, and Lou Sanders. And once again, we have gathered round the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in a particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Lou.
2:09 Speaker 03 Well, you're more likely to get your way if you ask someone for a favour in the right ear and not the left ear. It's called right ear dominance.
2:17 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:19 Speaker 03 So, yeah.
2:19 Speaker 04 Interesting where we're sat. You're speaking into Andy's right ear.
2:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:23 Speaker 04 And into our left ears.
2:24 Speaker 03 Can I get more money for the podcast?
2:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:28 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:30 Speaker 03 It wouldn't work if I asked Dan that.
2:33 Speaker 04 No.
2:33 Speaker 02 No.
2:33 Speaker 05 Um, right, so right ear dominance, is this like being like left or right handed or left or right footage?
2:39 Speaker 03 It's to do with the hemispheres of the brain and now I'll consult my phone.
2:45 Speaker 04 You got the main bits right without looking it up.
2:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, I was quite impressed myself actually, yeah.
2:51 Speaker 03 So it's called right ear advantage, I said that, didn't I, for verbal commands and persuasion. Can you imagine sort of like looping round and going through the other ear to sort of ask?
3:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, you've got to do it subtly.
3:03 Speaker 03 Yes.
3:03 Speaker 02 You've got to make your way over.
3:05 Speaker 03 Getting out of the bed, going round to her side.
3:10 Speaker 04 It does make sense to sleep on the right side of the bed.
3:14 Speaker 03 Right, yes, yeah.
3:15 Speaker 02 That is how we're positioned in bed.
3:17 Speaker 04 Is that right?
3:18 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:19 Speaker 04 I don't want to hear how you're positioned in bed.
3:21 Speaker 02 Who speaks into who's right ear? Fennel will talk into my right ear.
3:24 Speaker 03 I heard it was top to tail with you.
3:27 Speaker 04 I thought it was you on the top bunk.
3:32 Speaker 02 That's very cool, yeah. Um, that's a very good idea. I've, you would see now, I wonder if you look at classic photos of big business meals and so on, whether or not you see, you know, who's on the right side of Trump, for example.
3:47 Speaker 03 Who's on the right side of history?
3:49 Speaker 02 So, do we know why it's, why this?
3:52 Speaker 03 Um, well, let me consult AI. I'm afraid it is now you, when you search engine something, AI comes up first, which is annoying because they're using all the water. Um, don't get me started. Language, a left hemisphere dominance. Language and verbal information are primarily processed by the left hemisphere of the brain in most people, in most people, oh. The right ear is more directly wired to the left hemisphere, faster processing. Information received, this is interesting, through the right ear reaches the language processing centre in the left hemisphere more quickly. I don't know. Oh, here we go. This is more interesting. A study conducted in Italian nightclubs, where researchers asked clubbers for a cigarette in their left ear or right ear found that requests made in their right ear were twice as successful.
4:37 Speaker 02 Really?
4:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
4:38 Speaker 02 I'd say I don't want a cigarette in my left ear. No thank you.
4:42 Speaker 05 Italian nightclubs, the cradle of science.
4:46 Speaker 03 I've done my own research in there. No, no further, come on.
4:49 Speaker 05 Well, one of us sitting around this table for a particular reason has better hearing than the other three, irrespective of age or hearing damage.
4:56 Speaker 03 Oh, is it women have better hearing?
4:58 Speaker 05 Women have better hearing than men.
5:00 Speaker 03 Because we are supposed to get up for the baby, I suppose.
5:02 Speaker 02 That'll be it.
5:03 Speaker 03 Oh, damn it.
5:06 Speaker 02 Is it better hearing in terms of like, you know, the higher a sound goes and then only dogs can hear it? Do they have a higher range?
5:13 Speaker 04 That's for sure they do.
5:14 Speaker 02 Uh huh.
5:14 Speaker 05 But it's also play a sound at any part of the range and women will be more likely to perceive it than men.
5:21 Speaker 03 And our eyes are better as well, so we can see more colours than men.
5:25 Speaker 02 Yes.
5:26 Speaker 03 Isn't that, like, why are we so downtrodden when we're actually better?
5:30 Speaker 02 Um.
5:31 Speaker 03 I suppose you're stronger.
5:33 Speaker 04 Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 02 You've put all the.
5:35 Speaker 03 But we're emotionally stronger.
5:36 Speaker 04 If someone's fighting you, you can't say, oh, I can see 20 colours here. It doesn't really help the fight.
5:41 Speaker 03 We're emotionally stronger.
5:42 Speaker 04 That's true.
5:43 Speaker 03 So you tell me, how often are you getting into fights and how often are you seeing and hearing things? Every day you're seeing and hearing things. Fights, even you. Not one month, is it?
5:53 Speaker 04 I am from the north, Blue. One interesting thing about women having better hearing is they can hear higher things. And that means that there was a thing where people were making household appliances and they'd have a very high sort of hum, but the people who were making them were often men. So the men couldn't hear it and then they'd sell them and the women were using them. This is like in the seventies and eighties.
6:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:14 Speaker 04 And the women could hear the hums.
6:17 Speaker 02 That's, that's like the, is it called Invisible Women, that book?
6:21 Speaker 04 Yes.
6:21 Speaker 05 Caroline, Craig and Perry, and it's all about how things are not built with women in mind. But that's so funny that men have been making like screaming blenders that is imperceivable to them.
6:30 Speaker 03 Another way to terrorise us. Congratulations.
6:35 Speaker 05 It's weird that this was done in Italian nightclubs.
6:39 Speaker 03 Nightclubs, yeah.
6:39 Speaker 05 Because I think there's a big history of-
6:40 Speaker 03 Make your pleasure your job, you know?
6:42 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:42 Speaker 03 Make your passion your job.
6:44 Speaker 05 I think there's a big history of Italian ear science.
6:47 Speaker 03 Really?
6:48 Speaker 05 Yeah, so Alessandro Volta was the count, Italian count.
6:53 Speaker 04 He invented the battery.
6:54 Speaker 05 Invented the battery, needed a lot of electrical experimentation and he was one of the pioneers of electrifying ears.
7:02 Speaker 02 Why was he electrifying ears?
7:03 Speaker 05 He was electrifying everything he could get his hands on, but one of the things-
7:06 Speaker 04 He invented the battery, what are you gonna do?
7:07 Speaker 05 Yeah. That's his USP.
7:10 Speaker 04 Basically going around nightclubs just batterying people.
7:12 Speaker 05 Right.
7:13 Speaker 03 Right.
7:14 Speaker 05 Yeah, but there were lots, I think lots of Italian pioneers.
7:17 Speaker 04 Here's another thing, two people around this table will have better hearing than the other two.
7:21 Speaker 05 Irrespective of Lou.
7:22 Speaker 04 Forgetting about the male female thing, forgetting about age.
7:25 Speaker 03 Irrespective of age.
7:26 Speaker 02 Me and Lou, because we live by the sea.
7:29 Speaker 04 You got it. Well, not living in the city. Actually, people who live in the city have better hearing.
7:34 Speaker 02 Oh, so you and me, James?
7:35 Speaker 04 Yes, sorry.
7:36 Speaker 02 That's right. Sorry, guys.
7:38 Speaker 04 And this is according to a study at the University of Gießen in Germany, and they found that people in quiet villages, they don't have so good hearing because they don't have to fight over the traffic and stuff all the time.
7:49 Speaker 05 Right.
7:50 Speaker 04 And the absolute worst hearing of anyone in the world. Where do you think they live?
7:54 Speaker 03 Wales.
7:55 Speaker 05 The quietest place?
7:56 Speaker 04 Quietest, but then there's an extra thing on top. It's not Wales.
8:00 Speaker 05 It's quiet, but there's a background noise, so like near a nuclear reactor, because it's low population, but the nuclear reactor's humming?
8:08 Speaker 04 It's not that, it's East Asian villages, because they have a very quiet life, but every now and then they get huge firework displays. And that really damages their hearing, but then they also have the quiet thing.
8:19 Speaker 02 I was looking into ears, inevitably landed on Van Gogh, because that's where all ear research will get you to. And I was reading about when he was getting his ear treated after, after an injury. To it. And I can't tell if this was the injury where he lobbed it off, or if he had another injury where he just cut it with a razor and needed it looked after. Either way, he saw a doctor called Dr Felix Ray. And as a thank you, he gave Dr Felix Ray a portrait of Dr Felix Ray. So he did one over a number of days, handed to him to say, yeah, really beautiful painting. I've seen it. Dr Ray hated it, as did his wife. So for the next 10 years, they used it to block up a hole that was in the chicken coop that they had outside their house.
9:02 Speaker 05 Did they have the painting on the inside of the coop or the outside?
9:05 Speaker 02 Not sure, not sure. That's where it stayed for 10 years. It was eventually sold off and it's now in a museum and it's estimated to be worth about 50 million.
9:13 Speaker 03 But at the time. Did they get the money for it? Did they get some money for it?
9:16 Speaker 02 I think, no, I think it got, you know, just paid, handed on to someone else. If they got any money, it would have been a small amount. Yeah.
9:23 Speaker 03 Wow, I should have kept that fan art that someone sent me with a boggly eye.
9:30 Speaker 03 They tagged me in. I thought, I'm not reposting that. Have a word with you, Sam.
9:35 Speaker 03 If you do make fun out of people, you want them to repost it, make it on the right side of flattering.
9:38 Speaker 02 Sure.
9:42 Speaker 05 Here's another really famous ear from science history.
9:45 Speaker 02 Okay.
9:46 Speaker 05 The ear on the rat.
9:48 Speaker 03 The ear on the rat.
9:49 Speaker 04 Ear of the rat.
9:50 Speaker 03 Yes, the ear of the rat.
9:52 Speaker 05 Does anyone ever remember this?
9:53 Speaker 03 Yes, I do remember.
9:54 Speaker 02 An ear was grown on the back of a rat.
9:56 Speaker 05 The ear was grown on the back of a rat.
9:57 Speaker 02 A human ear.
9:58 Speaker 05 A human ear was grown on the back of a rat. And people, science has been doing this for at least 20 years on and off. The first one was done in 1997.
10:07 Speaker 03 Wow.
10:08 Speaker 05 I think it was a scientist, the original, the Vacanti mouse. I think the scientist was Joseph Vacanti.
10:14 Speaker 04 Italian?
10:14 Speaker 05 May have been Italian. It certainly sounds Italian, doesn't it?
10:17 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, they love the ears, don't they?
10:18 Speaker 05 Yeah. And he, basically, he was a pediatric surgeon and one of his colleagues said, we really struggle with recreating good ears for children. If a child's lost an ear in an accident or something, it's really hard to shape the cartilage to make it accurate.
10:31 Speaker 04 Yeah, because you can't hear out, the mouse can't hear out of that massive ear on its back, can it?
10:36 Speaker 05 No, no.
10:36 Speaker 04 Because it's not like, it's not a working ear, it's just the outside bit.
10:41 Speaker 05 It's the shell, exactly. It's the kind of the external, yeah. And they grow it and they would put a, they put a frame on the mouse or the rat that grows the ear.
10:51 Speaker 02 Ah, so it grows into the shape of the ear because there's a mold.
10:54 Speaker 05 Yes, it's like forcing a cucumber into the right shape.
10:57 Speaker 02 I didn't know that detail. I just thought. Yeah. Do you actually think it was like the mouse is going, fuck it, shut up, will you? I didn't. I've got a fucking ear on my back. I didn't think it was necessarily functioning.
11:08 Speaker 05 I don't have any cigarettes to give you. I'm sorry.
11:13 Speaker 05 No, but so, and his brother, weirdly, the Vacanti, Vacanti and his brother had both worked on the same problem. But they keep doing it. And the latest one, I think, was in 2016. And they said, well, we're going to move to human trials soon.
11:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
11:23 Speaker 05 As in growing the ears on animals and then implanting them into humans. And I, so far the trailer's gone cold, I believe.
11:29 Speaker 02 So can we just grow a whole human if we put it in a mold? If you put a mold of a human. No.
11:34 Speaker 03 There is a market for that.
11:35 Speaker 02 Is there?
11:37 Speaker 03 Well, it doesn't do anything, does it? But it's a human doll.
11:40 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, because like the ear, it wouldn't, it would just be a.
11:44 Speaker 03 It would just be a.
11:44 Speaker 02 It'd just be the shape, yeah.
11:46 Speaker 05 I don't think those are grown on the backs of mice, as far as I understand.
11:49 Speaker 03 No, that's true.
11:50 Speaker 02 Sex dolls.
11:50 Speaker 03 Well, you couldn't put a hu- human body on the back of a mouse. It would topple over.
11:54 Speaker 02 Yes, absolutely. What the hu- yeah, whatever. Also, it wouldn't be able to get back into its hole, would it? Because the human would be too.
12:00 Speaker 03 This is, you know, it's obvious. It's obvious. It's a terrible idea.
12:04 Speaker 02 Yeah.
12:04 Speaker 03 I don't have to be the one to say that.
12:07 Speaker 03 Come on, boys. Come on. You're supposed to be brainy. You can't grow a hair body on a mouse. Come on. Get real.
12:14 Speaker 02 And we've been doing it for, as you say, since 1997.
12:17 Speaker 05 Yep.
12:17 Speaker 02 Multiple years. But no ear has ever gone from a mouse to a human.
12:21 Speaker 05 I believe not.
12:23 Speaker 03 It's time to move on.
12:25 Speaker 05 I think it's time to double down. I think we must be.
12:27 Speaker 03 Get a bot on the mouse, Cam. But also you always read things in the paper that says, oh, they've figured out a way to do this. And then you don't hear any more about it. I think it's like to give us a bit of a lift and a bit of a story. But they're not really planning on doing anything with it. Like the, the thing that ate plastic, the.
12:45 Speaker 05 All the little bacteria.
12:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, where's that gone?
12:47 Speaker 02 I, I think it's probably in.
12:49 Speaker 03 Well, no one's talking about it.
12:51 Speaker 04 Lego lab disappeared, didn't it?
12:54 Speaker 03 Like, you know, they give us a bit of good news. Like, oh, they've saved site or something I read the other day.
13:00 Speaker 04 Right.
13:00 Speaker 03 Come on, then.
13:01 Speaker 05 It's always very early developments, isn't it?
13:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, don't waste my time.
13:05 Speaker 05 Can we roll this out?
13:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, come back to me.
13:07 Speaker 04 It's because they need to do the headlines to get funding.
13:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:09 Speaker 05 Yes.
13:10 Speaker 04 So they do the big, oh, we're going to save this.
13:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:13 Speaker 04 The newspapers say, we're going to save this. And they're like, no, we just really just wanted a few grand for some experiments. To buy some more mice.
13:21 Speaker 03 On the hearing front, what is it with people that talk really loudly? I've got two friends that talk so loudly, they must be deaf, mustn't they?
13:29 Speaker 02 Fenella says that I talk extremely loudly, and I don't think I do.
13:33 Speaker 03 No.
13:33 Speaker 02 She's always going on about how loud I am.
13:35 Speaker 05 You shout at her a lot.
13:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
13:37 Speaker 05 Yeah, when I've been with you guys.
13:40 Speaker 04 So that might be what's going on.
13:41 Speaker 05 That's what she's talking about, my rage.
13:43 Speaker 04 Have you not got like 15 kids to shout over?
13:46 Speaker 02 We do. And also, when you're sleeping top to tail, it does take. Dan, can you, the blankets? Yeah, we should move on soon. I feel like we haven't done any facts.
13:55 Speaker 04 Oh, we've done loads.
13:56 Speaker 02 Oh, we've done tons.
13:57 Speaker 04 If you've got bigger ears, do you think you hear better or worse or the same?
14:00 Speaker 02 Better.
14:01 Speaker 04 Better. You're right.
14:04 Speaker 04 It's one of those facts that's just what you would imagine.
14:06 Speaker 02 It's so enjoyable that that's the case.
14:08 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:09 Speaker 02 That big ears mean better hearing.
14:11 Speaker 04 It's very, very slight. It's 15 decibels difference, which is basically, you can't really tell the difference. But yeah, it does make a difference.
14:17 Speaker 02 Like, if you have a bigger nose, can you smell better? Probably not, right? Because it doesn't necessarily mean your receptors are any better.
14:23 Speaker 05 You can take more air in one sniff.
14:25 Speaker 03 Why don't you let us know, Dan?
14:30 Speaker 04 Okay, wait, Dan's got a big, big nose. I've got a small nose. Andy, you make a smell and we'll see who smells it first.
14:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
14:37 Speaker 03 Just make a smell.
14:38 Speaker 02 Make a smell right now.
14:40 Speaker 05 I'm doing it.
14:43 Speaker 04 If you can smell it at home, do let us know, podcast at qi.com.
14:49 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
15:04 Speaker 07 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
15:15 Speaker 06 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
15:20 Speaker 08 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.
15:26 Speaker 06 So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
15:48 Speaker 05 Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is James.
15:52 Speaker 04 Okay, my fact this week is that the town of Ramsgate is named after a gate for ravens.
16:01 Speaker 05 Very confusing.
16:02 Speaker 04 That's so cool.
16:02 Speaker 05 It is really cool.
16:03 Speaker 04 Well, I think it is.
16:05 Speaker 05 Why do ravens need a gate?
16:07 Speaker 04 It's a gap in the cliffs where the ravens go in.
16:10 Speaker 03 I thought you were gonna say it's a gap in the market.
16:15 Speaker 04 We think it comes from the old English word gate, meaning gate, and raven, which means raven, and that became Ramsgate. Raven also sometimes means warlord, so it could be gate of the warlord. And Daniel Defoe thought that Ramsgate was originally called Romans Gate, and it's where the Romans landed, because it was actually where the Romans landed, but we're pretty sure that isn't true.
16:39 Speaker 05 But can we just say, for, maybe for international listeners who don't know?
16:43 Speaker 04 Or listeners from the north.
16:44 Speaker 05 Or listeners from the north or west of England or other parts of the UK who may not know about the bustling metropolis of Ramsgate.
16:50 Speaker 04 Yes.
16:51 Speaker 05 What Ramsgate is.
16:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
16:52 Speaker 05 Well, it's part of Thanet, which is on the southeast coast.
16:55 Speaker 04 I'm gonna, that's a circular.
16:57 Speaker 05 No, it's a-
16:58 Speaker 02 It's it's a it's because it's quite connected to quite a few places that you may have heard of. Margate, Broadstairs and Ramsgate kind of come as a trio. You've got Westgate as well.
17:06 Speaker 05 It's a it's a town. It's a town on the
17:08 Speaker 02 That's what you were trying to get to.
17:09 Speaker 03 It's a town. Just say it. If you want us to say it's a town, you say it.
17:13 Speaker 05 I just think that's referencing Broadstairs and Margate.
17:16 Speaker 04 Andy, Andy, the fact was, the town of Ramsgate.
17:21 Speaker 05 You're right. You're absolutely right. You're right. It's a classic English seaside town in many ways.
17:25 Speaker 03 It is. It's, yeah.
17:26 Speaker 05 And it's lovely and it's it's so interesting. I had no idea how interesting it is.
17:30 Speaker 04 Is it where you live? Lou or you?
17:33 Speaker 03 No.
17:34 Speaker 05 Do you have a link?
17:35 Speaker 03 No, I've I've not. I have no idea what you're talking about. No, I was I would live there from two to four, then I moved next door to Broadstairs. Now I live in Margate, so I'll do the trilogy.
17:44 Speaker 04 Oh. Is that going upmarket or downmarket to go?
17:48 Speaker 03 Well, they all changed. So Ramsgate was a dive and then Broadstairs is a bit fancier. Then Margate was a dive, but now it's fancier. It's cooler.
17:58 Speaker 04 Regular listeners will know about Margate because Dan goes on about it so much.
18:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, because I live there. Um, yeah, not not just because I'm fancy.
18:05 Speaker 03 It's nice. It's nice.
18:06 Speaker 04 I really excitingly, I went to see a school today. It's one that my daughter might go to and they said that every year they take all the kids on a trip to Margate. And I've got to say, sold.
18:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, great. Yeah.
18:18 Speaker 05 Well, I think if it was a trip to Ramsgate, that'd be even better.
18:21 Speaker 03 For your podcast.
18:24 Speaker 05 Because it's stunningly interesting. It's one of those towns where it's quite it's reasonably close to London. And then for a spell in the, what, 18th and 19th century, it was one of the most fashionable places on the planet. Incredibly beautiful buildings, incredibly rich history in terms of connections to Europe.
18:41 Speaker 03 It's got Waitrose.
18:42 Speaker 05 It's got a Waitrose.
18:43 Speaker 02 Waitrose. Charles Darwin had a flat, um, did a lot of his barnacle research in the area.
18:49 Speaker 05 Van Gogh.
18:50 Speaker 03 Oh, and that brings it.
18:52 Speaker 02 Of chicken coop fame.
18:53 Speaker 03 Wow.
18:54 Speaker 02 Himself spent three months as a teacher in Ramsgate.
18:57 Speaker 03 A lot of artists do go to the area because the light is very beautiful. You see the sun rise in Ramsgate and you see the sunset in Margate.
19:05 Speaker 04 Oh, really?
19:05 Speaker 03 Something to do with the, you know, geography.
19:08 Speaker 04 Teaching a teaching assistant, I think.
19:10 Speaker 02 Teaching assistant.
19:11 Speaker 05 He was a TA.
19:12 Speaker 03 Who was? Who was?
19:13 Speaker 04 Van Gogh.
19:13 Speaker 02 Van Gogh.
19:14 Speaker 05 Imagine being imagine being the teacher in the class where Van Gogh is a teaching assistant. Like, that's that's quite tricky. If you're the art teacher, as I'm presuming he was.
19:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
19:23 Speaker 05 And you're trying to teach something and he's in the back being a bit weird, cutting his ear off.
19:28 Speaker 02 But it was also branded in World War One as the most bombed seaside town in the UK. Basically, the first blitzes hit Ramsgate and they had an amazing way of dealing with that, which I'm sure, Andy, you must have read into and enjoyed the tunnels that they built. Yeah.
19:43 Speaker 05 Oh, tunneled into the cliffs. They dug, and I think it was for the Second World War, was the big bombing raids. Although there was some in the First World War, but the Second World War, they just dug this cave complex into the cliffs. I think they could get 60,000 people down there.
19:56 Speaker 02 They could. So it's real, I didn't know this and I've been to these caves. Well, I've been to the gift shop. We didn't quite make it into the caves, but we were going back.
20:04 Speaker 04 Isn't the gift shop usually at the end of this spectacle?
20:06 Speaker 05 You would try to get him for free by going through the gift shop.
20:09 Speaker 04 Walking backwards through the sand style.
20:12 Speaker 03 So what's it selling? A rock?
20:14 Speaker 05 Yeah, like a model of a cave. What is it?
20:16 Speaker 02 No, it's where you actually buy the tickets to go into the cave, but they can only take you as a tour group, so you can't just wander in. So it's huge. And initially, why it was built was it goes deep into, away from the ocean inland. And it was for the local town members to have a tunnel that would get them straight to the seaside. So it wasn't built initially for the bombing.
20:38 Speaker 05 But they were, they already live at the seaside.
20:40 Speaker 02 But it's just a quick way rather than going through the town.
20:42 Speaker 03 Underground.
20:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, because there was a little, there was a little, there was a little railway.
20:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, it was trains and trams.
20:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, exactly.
20:48 Speaker 03 I'll go above ground. What if you need to pop to boots or something?
20:51 Speaker 04 Also, people are going to piss in that tunnel.
20:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:55 Speaker 05 Yes, surely not. Surely not in Ramsgate.
20:57 Speaker 03 Oh, well, do you want a story about Ramsgate that's not very highbrow?
21:01 Speaker 04 Yes, please.
21:02 Speaker 03 I, years ago, I was thinking, why don't I just buy in Ramsgate? This was like years and years ago, and I thought it's quite nice. And then I was seriously considering it. And then I went to the toilet at Ramsgate Station before I got on the train. And someone had done a shit, a loft of the radiator in the waiting room.
21:20 Speaker 05 A loft of the radiator?
21:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's just they, they've positioned themselves on top of the radiator. So the toilet was like two seconds through a door, toilets there. But they said, no, what I'll do is pull down my pants in the waiting room and just poop on a radiator.
21:36 Speaker 04 You don't get that in Broadstairs, do you?
21:38 Speaker 03 You don't get that so much in Broadstairs.
21:40 Speaker 02 Definitely human.
21:40 Speaker 03 Well, I haven't got time to do them all.
21:45 Speaker 04 Do you know the world's biggest weather spoons is in Ramsgate?
21:48 Speaker 02 I go there probably once a week.
21:50 Speaker 03 Do you actually?
21:51 Speaker 02 I do. I love it.
21:52 Speaker 03 I don't because he was like a pioneer of Brexit, not pioneer, you know.
21:55 Speaker 04 But you can get a pint of ruddles for £1.20.
21:58 Speaker 02 Here we go.
21:59 Speaker 03 Okay, you're doing okay.
22:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, it does. It's grade two listed.
22:02 Speaker 04 Yeah. 1,500 people it can hold, which is the same as Shakespeare's Globe.
22:08 Speaker 02 Wow. It's an old ballroom.
22:10 Speaker 03 Different, different audience.
22:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's an old ballroom and it's really beautiful. It's right on the beach. It's a, it's a.
22:16 Speaker 04 A feather?
22:17 Speaker 02 Oh, have you? Right.
22:17 Speaker 04 That's lovely.
22:18 Speaker 02 Yeah.
22:18 Speaker 04 It's a great, it's a great big pub.
22:21 Speaker 02 It's true.
22:22 Speaker 04 I'm with Lou, it's a shithole.
22:24 Speaker 02 And it's, it's a two minute walk from the caves, by the way, if anyone.
22:28 Speaker 03 There's some lovely little independent wine bars up the road. Say that.
22:33 Speaker 04 Do you know the home for smack boys?
22:35 Speaker 02 Yeah.
22:36 Speaker 03 Uh, no.
22:38 Speaker 02 That's in Ramsgate.
22:39 Speaker 03 What is it?
22:40 Speaker 04 It's, um, what does it sound like?
22:42 Speaker 03 Where my ex is conga grating. No, no, no, come on.
22:47 Speaker 03 No, come on.
22:48 Speaker 04 Smack boys were people who worked on smacks, weren't they?
22:51 Speaker 02 Yeah, fishing boats.
22:52 Speaker 03 Oh.
22:52 Speaker 02 Fishing smacks.
22:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:54 Speaker 03 Right.
22:54 Speaker 02 And they went out with boys as young as sort of, probably about 14 were going out and working on the fishing boats. And so this was a place to give them food and accommodation and, you know, stability. But still, if you walk across from this building, it still has the words, like something like home of the smack boys on the side, which if you don't know what that means is quite confusing.
23:13 Speaker 04 Yeah.
23:13 Speaker 02 What it's attached to is the Sailors Church, which is this tiny church. You could fit about 30 people in there. I've been into it multiple times. I've never seen a service done there, but I started reading into it. And there's reviews by, and I didn't know this was a thing, mystery worshippers. So it's like mystery shoppers.
23:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:31 Speaker 02 Isn't that great? So, yeah, you would have mystery shoppers who would do their thing. Mystery worshippers are people who go into a church, they experience it and they report back on a survey that they're questioned about.
23:43 Speaker 04 Did you connect with the almighty?
23:45 Speaker 02 Yeah, exactly.
23:46 Speaker 04 Level of spiritual.
23:47 Speaker 02 Well, questions are like, how full was the building? Did anyone welcome you personally? Were the pews comfortable? And the person who filled it in was slightly, slightly odd. Was the pews comfortable? The pews had very low back support, so I thought on balance, no, it was uncomfortable.
24:01 Speaker 04 Off balance, mate, go on.
24:03 Speaker 02 Yeah. Did the service make you feel glad to be a Christian? I didn't feel miserable. That's an accomplishment.
24:09 Speaker 03 Wow.
24:11 Speaker 04 As someone who used to regularly go to church.
24:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
24:13 Speaker 04 If any new person came into our church, everyone would know.
24:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
24:17 Speaker 04 Because it would always be the same family. Everyone would sit in the same places and stuff like that. If someone sat in your place, you would know immediately that they were a secret.
24:25 Speaker 05 Mystery worshipper.
24:26 Speaker 02 Mystery worshipper.
24:27 Speaker 03 The smallest church in the world, maybe, is in Dover, just up the road.
24:31 Speaker 04 Really?
24:32 Speaker 02 It's, oh, cool.
24:33 Speaker 03 I think so. I mean, every time someone asks me if that's really true, I panic, but I think that's.
24:37 Speaker 05 How small are we talking?
24:38 Speaker 03 Tiny.
24:39 Speaker 05 Can it fit one person in?
24:41 Speaker 03 Do you want me to go get it? Because obviously I've not got the answers.
24:46 Speaker 04 Hey, Andy, I thought you would hate Ramsgate because your hero hated Ramsgate.
24:50 Speaker 05 Jane Austen.
24:50 Speaker 04 Correct.
24:51 Speaker 03 Really? Why?
24:52 Speaker 04 Well, she thought it was a place of disrepute, as seaside resorts were in her day, really.
24:58 Speaker 05 Sure.
24:59 Speaker 04 And apparently, according to Kent historian Norman Thomas, she mentions it in Pride and Prejudice and Mansfield Park, and she's never complimentary in either. I've not read any Jane Austen, so.
25:09 Speaker 05 I think it's where Mr. Darcy's sister is nearly seduced by Mr. Wickham. In, I think it happens in Ramsgate.
25:19 Speaker 04 Is that the place, is that the one where Mr. Darcy leaves a turd on a radiator?
25:23 Speaker 05 Yeah. That's right. And that's when Lizzie Bennet knows that he's the one. Yeah.
25:28 Speaker 02 I think her brother lived down there for a while. Captain Austen.
25:32 Speaker 05 Yes. She had a load of brothers who were navy or military. And I think it was a place where, have you heard, you know this thing Scarlet Fever? Not the disease. It's where, it's basically.
25:44 Speaker 03 Sorry, just cut out everything I said about the smallest.
25:48 Speaker 04 Listener, if you wonder why I've been quiet for the last couple of minutes.
25:52 Speaker 03 No, it is. One of the smallest working churches in England, Dover's tiny chapel of St Edmund of Abidin, is the only church still in existence that was dedicated, and by that point, you get quite bored.
26:06 Speaker 05 Right.
26:08 Speaker 03 You get the idea, there's a small church in Dover. It's a small church. Yeah, get over it.
26:13 Speaker 03 Sorry, what were you saying? Nothing, nothing important.
26:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, I got a, I got quite a nice message, which is something that usually would be reserved for drop us a line, but a listener who runs a local thing called Margate Mushrooms. So as Andy and James will know, I've been taking lion's mane mushrooms. It's a little drip to help your concentration.
26:35 Speaker 05 We have to keep this for the advertising bit of the show. We have to put it in the ad breaks. We can't just work it in.
26:39 Speaker 02 We can't just work it in. Well, it turns out the person who makes this stuff listens to our show. I had no idea. And she messaged me, she listened to our episode about crafts that are going endangered and virtually out. Ramsgate is home to one of the very few chain mail makers living in the UK. So a guy named Nick Checksfield, so he has a lifetime achievement award from the Heritage Crafts Association. And she was saying, because she knows him, or certainly has spoken to him, and she was saying he is so good at understanding chain mail that if he looks at old, centuries old chain mail, he can tell if the maker was right or left handed. He can tell if they were getting tired as they were making it.
27:17 Speaker 03 But who's fact checking him? You know what I mean? Like, I could go on and go like, yeah, okay, this guy's a Sagittarius, you know, well, he's dead, he's dead 100 years ago, so actually that's easier to fact check.
27:30 Speaker 03 Actually, that's really easy to fact check.
27:31 Speaker 02 Well, he's got, he's got a website, nickchecksfield.
27:34 Speaker 03 We've all got a website, babe.
27:37 Speaker 03 No, it does sound good. And I would like some free mushroom drops as well.
27:41 Speaker 02 Would you, right. But check this out, um, the website, he has an advice hotline for if you have emergency questions about your chain mail.
27:49 Speaker 03 Now this is going to come in useful. Do you mind if I just jot that down?
27:52 Speaker 05 What circumstances do you need emergency advice about your, like if 100 crossbow bolts are flying towards you?
27:59 Speaker 03 Nick.
28:02 Speaker 05 Does he sell much, do you think? I don't know if he sells much. And I don't, I assume the advice hotline is for people who are in museums who might have damaged a chain mail and they need some advice on what to immediately do.
28:13 Speaker 03 Of course. He's doing some good work.
28:15 Speaker 05 Yeah, he's doing great. Well, but anyway, that's a craft that's endangered and he's down there. Ramsgate hero. Yeah. Along with?
28:20 Speaker 03 Oh, Bagpuss.
28:22 Speaker 05 Really?
28:23 Speaker 03 Broadstairs, Bagpuss was from Broadstairs.
28:26 Speaker 04 Postgate.
28:27 Speaker 03 Again, I will have to fact check that.
28:30 Speaker 05 Well, see you in a few minutes.
28:33 Speaker 03 And then the podcast gets shorter.
28:35 Speaker 05 Is that the guy who created Bagpuss?
28:37 Speaker 03 A Bagpuss himself.
28:38 Speaker 04 A postgate, right? I think.
28:40 Speaker 03 Right. How do you retain all this information? This is crazy to me.
28:44 Speaker 05 Yeah.
28:45 Speaker 04 Well, the good thing is I can keep saying stuff and if I get it wrong, I just cut it out.
28:49 Speaker 03 But I couldn't even remember that I booked acupuncture for myself the other day. It's fascinating.
28:55 Speaker 05 You will need to remove your chain mail for that.
29:03 Speaker 05 Okay, it's time for fact number three and that is Andy. My fact is, the scientist who won this year's Nobel Prize for Medicine didn't find out for nearly a day because he'd gone off grid and he only found out after his wife got 200 texts.
29:15 Speaker 04 Wow.
29:17 Speaker 05 So this is about Fred Ramsdale, who's an immunologist. Yep. And a very good one, clearly. And he and his wife, in October, they'd gone on a three week hike in Wyoming with their dogs. And they were having a whale of a time. And they'd gone, they'd gone off grid and they'd turned off their phones. And they, you know, they just had not paid any attention. And on the very last day, his wife started screaming and he thought, she's seen a bear, we're in big trouble. And it turns out she'd just got 200 text messages saying, can you please put your phone on? The Nobels are trying to contact you.
29:48 Speaker 03 And that's why I won't ever turn my phone off in case I just win a Nobel Prize.
29:53 Speaker 04 And if you turn your phone off, you have Nobel on it. So.
29:56 Speaker 03 Yes.
29:57 Speaker 05 Brilliant. Brilliant.
30:00 Speaker 03 Edit and laugh.
30:03 Speaker 05 Yeah, they've been trying to get in touch for 20 hours and this is pretty much a new record for how long anyone's been able to stay away from the Nobel Committee, trying to contact you.
30:11 Speaker 02 Right. Very amazing. I mean, quite often it becomes the viral thing when the Nobel Prizes are announced. Someone not picking up their phone.
30:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, we love it.
30:19 Speaker 02 This happened last year where a neighbour had to come over who happened to be a scientist at like 2 in the morning and was ringing the doorbell.
30:24 Speaker 05 Yes.
30:25 Speaker 02 Said, "Pick up your phone."
30:26 Speaker 05 That was 2020, that was Paul Milgram.
30:27 Speaker 02 Right.
30:28 Speaker 05 Yeah.
30:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:29 Speaker 05 Do you want to hear about Richard Ernst in 1991? He was on a flight from Moscow back to the USA and he was asleep, it was a night flight, and he was woken up and he said, "There's a phone call for you." He said, "What do you mean, there's a phone call for me? It's 1991, how could there be a phone call for me?" And he said, "Leave me alone, I'm going back to sleep." I think they did have some phones on planes, but it wasn't a common thing to receive a call. He said, "No, let me sleep." And they said, "No, no, no, get up, sir, come to the cockpit." And he went to the cockpit of this plane and he put on the radio set that the pilot handed him and it was the Nobel Committee saying, "You've just won the Nobel for Chemistry."
31:00 Speaker 03 Wow.
31:01 Speaker 02 Which is so cool.
31:01 Speaker 03 And then he starts in Downey Island. Take it off.
31:05 Speaker 05 Yeah, he'd done the research on depending MRI scanning, he was a big deal.
31:08 Speaker 02 Yeah. There was a guy, Melvin Calvin, going slightly off memory here. Sounds like you're going off memory. Sounds like a blank has been filled in. He won it for, he won the science prize and he was not, they weren't able to reach him because he was away secretly at a alien conference. And it's not as weird as it sounds because it's where Carl Sagan and Frank Drake were, where they, the foundations of SETI were. So he was at the very first SETI meeting and they found out as SETI was being set up.
31:40 Speaker 05 He was busy being probed.
31:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And actually Frank Drake was going to send off for some champagne and it just so happened that the person who was the chauffeur for all of them to get them to this place was called French Beverage.
31:53 Speaker 03 Tom, what are you talking about?
31:56 Speaker 02 And he thought, "I can't, I can't send French Beverage to go get the champagne, that just feels too odd."
32:00 Speaker 03 The mushrooms that you had, were they...
32:05 Speaker 05 So Melvin Calvin was the guy who won, but was at an alien conference? Well, not an alien conference, they were setting up SETI. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Quite good that SETI rhymes with Yeti. Like, those are two of your big interests. Yes, that's true. Didn't know that. That's a good point.
32:20 Speaker 03 And spaghetti you like as well, don't you?
32:21 Speaker 05 I love spaghetti. The whole point is that he wasn't, they couldn't reach him and they got through to his wife who then had to call the secret base. Yeah, in order to mention it to him that he had won.
32:31 Speaker 04 A lot of people think it's spam, don't they, or telemarketing when people, when the Nobels ring up?
32:36 Speaker 05 Oh, really?
32:36 Speaker 04 Abdo Azak Gerner, who won the Literature Prize a few years ago, they rang him and said, you've won the Nobel Prize. But before they could say anything, he said, leave me alone and just slammed the phone down on them.
32:47 Speaker 05 I think Kazuo Ishiguro.
32:49 Speaker 04 Yeah.
32:49 Speaker 05 Same thing.
32:50 Speaker 04 I bet.
32:50 Speaker 05 Yeah. God, so maybe you've already won it, Lou. You've just been hanging up on them. So off-grid, which is where Fred Ramsdale was.
33:01 Speaker 04 What's that mean?
33:01 Speaker 05 Well, I think it gets used wrong all the time.
33:05 Speaker 03 I certainly use it wrong.
33:06 Speaker 05 People say, I'm going off-grid.
33:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:08 Speaker 05 And what they mean is, I won't have my phone on. I'm turning on, I'm putting on my out of office on my email.
33:12 Speaker 03 Well, Morrison's in Margate has got no reception, so that's off-grid.
33:16 Speaker 05 Right, there we go.
33:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:18 Speaker 05 What it should mean is, I'm not going to be...
33:19 Speaker 03 And you have to fend for yourself because some of those aisles are really mixed up.
33:24 Speaker 05 But it should be, I'm not going to be using public utilities.
33:27 Speaker 03 Yes.
33:27 Speaker 05 Like, I'm not going to be using public water or electricity supplies, but people don't use it to mean that anymore.
33:31 Speaker 03 Self-sustainable is what I want to be. So you have your own electricity, you have your own water source. I think they're the big two.
33:39 Speaker 05 Those are the big two. Some kind of sewage system, if you're, if we're being fussy.
33:43 Speaker 03 Yes, yes, yes. Or a radiator, at least.
33:47 Speaker 05 Drying it out is half the battle. You either get rid of it or just dry it.
33:51 Speaker 03 Thank you.
33:52 Speaker 05 It's mostly water weight.
33:56 Speaker 02 So are you, are you interested in this kind of stuff?
33:57 Speaker 03 I would love to keep doing my job and keep doing what I do, but then living in a few acres of land with my own water and electricity, solar system, all eco. I'd like to sort of have a little eco village. So I would like to be self-sustainable, but still, you know, pop on QI, et cetera, you know?
34:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
34:17 Speaker 05 You'll have to make your own QI, unfortunately.
34:20 Speaker 03 No.
34:21 Speaker 05 You'll have to have your own set built.
34:22 Speaker 04 Just with chicken.
34:23 Speaker 03 I still want to go to cafes, you know?
34:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:27 Speaker 03 I'm not growing my own coffee beans.
34:28 Speaker 04 I think that's fine.
34:29 Speaker 02 I think that is off-grid.
34:30 Speaker 04 There's one good way of getting powered that a YouTuber called Chris Dole has done. You know vapes?
34:36 Speaker 05 Love them.
34:39 Speaker 04 Coming out of your ears. So vapes, they each have a tiny battery in them, but what people do is they vape them until you can vape no more and then you chuck them away. But then that means they're chucking away this tiny battery and usually there's electricity left on it. So this guy, he salvaged 500 disposable vapes and turned the batteries into a working power wall, which powers basically all of his stuff in his house.
35:04 Speaker 03 Wow.
35:05 Speaker 05 So good.
35:05 Speaker 04 That's cool, isn't it?
35:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:07 Speaker 05 It's not that many vapes as well. I don't know how fast you get through a vape.
35:09 Speaker 04 500. Well, you get through about 20 a day, don't you?
35:12 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do, I do. They come with a certain number of puffs, don't they? And you could buy mega vapes, which are illegal, which have more puffs in them.
35:20 Speaker 02 Really?
35:20 Speaker 05 Yeah.
35:21 Speaker 02 Mega vape.
35:21 Speaker 04 I've never felt more how do you do fellow kids than talking about vapes.
35:28 Speaker 05 Yeah, but I think, and you can say to your, like, your news editor or whatever, have you got any illegal vapes for me? And he'll go under the counter and pull out like a vape the size of a Toblerone.
35:36 Speaker 04 You don't just have your own?
35:37 Speaker 05 I've not done it.
35:38 Speaker 04 How do you know this? And the, and the, Toblerones come in all different sizes.
35:42 Speaker 05 I'm so sorry. You're absolutely right. Pull out the, the size of an airport Toblerone.
35:47 Speaker 04 Oh, right.
35:47 Speaker 05 There we go. Okay.
35:49 Speaker 02 If I asked for a large Toblerone, would they have that under the counter as well?
35:52 Speaker 05 They'll actually pull out a massive Toblerone. Then they'll pull out an even bigger one. There's always a bigger one.
35:56 Speaker 02 There's always a bigger under the counter.
35:58 Speaker 05 No, I think they're meant to be legally, they have to be rechargeable now, but people still throw them away because they, they can't be bothered to recharge them.
36:04 Speaker 04 Because they're cheap.
36:05 Speaker 05 Because they're cheap.
36:06 Speaker 02 Lou, there's quite a few places that are kind of set up already for off-grid living. Would you ever consider just incorporating yourself into a place, the groundwork having been done?
36:14 Speaker 03 Yes, but how am I going to be a cult leader if there's already?
36:18 Speaker 04 Good point.
36:21 Speaker 03 You know.
36:22 Speaker 05 We'd kill the, kill the previous leader.
36:23 Speaker 03 Ah, yes.
36:24 Speaker 05 Trial by combat.
36:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'd want to do it with a couple of friends or something. So I don't know. I don't know, maybe. But then would you have to deal with annoying people? I don't know.
36:33 Speaker 05 Always, in life, always.
36:34 Speaker 04 Usually what happens with cults is either.
36:37 Speaker 03 So it's not actually a cult.
36:39 Speaker 05 It's just James's shorthand. It doesn't mean anything by it.
36:42 Speaker 04 Let's say people who live off-grid in communes.
36:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:45 Speaker 04 Usually what happens is someone decides, let's all have sex with each other.
36:49 Speaker 03 Yes.
36:50 Speaker 04 And then they all fall out, or two groups mob and they all fall out.
36:53 Speaker 03 Well, there'll be no sex in my commune. And, you know, even if it's a married couple, I will be enforcing a no-sex rule.
37:00 Speaker 05 Oh, okay.
37:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:01 Speaker 04 You'll be lying in between them.
37:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wholesome, wholesome.
37:06 Speaker 05 I think I may have found out the most famous person to be living off-grid. I might, I might be wrong, because I'm sure there are loads of candidates. Currently living off-grid? Currently living off-grid, I believe. Okay, most famous person. Winnie the Pooh.
37:21 Speaker 04 Okay, is it someone we could guess?
37:23 Speaker 05 Someone who lives in America, very famous.
37:25 Speaker 04 Taylor Swift.
37:26 Speaker 05 Not far off, actually quite far off.
37:29 Speaker 04 Sabrina Carpenter. More male.
37:32 Speaker 05 More male than Sabrina Carpenter? Good luck finding that person. Very, very narrow subset we're in now.
37:40 Speaker 04 Joe Rogan.
37:41 Speaker 05 Okay, writer. As in he's a writer or that's more correct?
37:46 Speaker 04 Stephen King.
37:47 Speaker 05 Sorry. So even closer with Stephen King, someone who writes famously about rural America. Michael, John Grisham? Oh, now we're, now we're getting closer. Now we're getting closer. Rural America. He writes about a small-time drifter drifting into a town, solving some problems. Lee Child's British. Lee Child lives in Wyoming. Oh. Lee Child, sorry. Really deadballed that answer. Hit that one into the net. I just didn't think of it because he's British, but okay, he lives in America. He does, he has experience of life in America now. And he lives in this mad, huge estate in Wyoming. Okay, get this, Lou, I don't know if you'd be up for this.
38:25 Speaker 03 Marrying him, so I get my land, yeah.
38:29 Speaker 05 His postbox is 10 miles from his house.
38:33 Speaker 03 No, thank you.
38:34 Speaker 05 10 miles to the postbox.
38:36 Speaker 04 How often does he send letters?
38:38 Speaker 05 Um, all the time. He's exclusive. He's like Jane Austen, Lee Child.
38:41 Speaker 03 I guess he's not on email.
38:44 Speaker 05 His nearest grocery shop?
38:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:47 Speaker 05 Forty-five miles away.
38:48 Speaker 03 No.
38:49 Speaker 05 If he needs to go and get some milk, it's a 90 mile round trip.
38:52 Speaker 03 Does he, is he making his own milk?
38:55 Speaker 05 What are we saying?
38:56 Speaker 03 And that, don't mean, that's not a huge person. At that stage, you've got.
38:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, he's got farm.
39:00 Speaker 05 He would just, well, you know what Jack Reacher's like. Lee Child will just pick up a cow and drink.
39:05 Speaker 03 Straight from the.
39:06 Speaker 05 Straight from the.
39:08 Speaker 05 No, um, I don't know if he's got a farm, but basically he's in this place in Wyoming. Wyoming is the size of the UK.
39:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
39:14 Speaker 05 But the population is the combined populations of Cambridge, Canterbury, Carlisle and Chelmsford, as he's put it. It's just very, very sparsely populated. And he has a friend who he sometimes visits for dinner who lives 105 miles away.
39:27 Speaker 02 Wow.
39:28 Speaker 03 That's, I mean, I'm not interested in that life.
39:30 Speaker 05 It's so remote.
39:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:32 Speaker 05 So, it's so far from.
39:35 Speaker 02 Well, it's 10 miles to your postbox. Yeah. For someone as well who kind of puts out a book a year and is in the press and is doing interviews and presumably doing live shows.
39:43 Speaker 04 But he's not being distracted by constant letters, is he? So he's not.
39:47 Speaker 03 But maybe.
39:48 Speaker 02 That's how you write a book a year.
39:49 Speaker 04 A lot of people want to move to these places in case there's like a nuclear war or something, or a zombie outbreak or some, does that appeal to you, Lou?
39:56 Speaker 03 Are you sort of trying to get a gauge of how much of a nut I am? In a polite way.
40:02 Speaker 05 And will we, will we be bottling all the piss? Or will we?
40:07 Speaker 04 Well, the reason I ask is like, a lot of squillioners will buy these sort of off-grid places and will have them in case
40:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
40:14 Speaker 04 the whole world goes to shit and they'll have a place to live.
40:17 Speaker 03 Oh, if I had the money, I probably would.
40:19 Speaker 04 Yeah. So this guy, Peter Thiel.
40:21 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
40:21 Speaker 04 You know him, squillionaire asshole. Um, he got New Zealand citizenship so that he could build a super bunker in New Zealand.
40:30 Speaker 03 They're all building in New Zealand because they know that they're causing like climate damage to anyway.
40:35 Speaker 04 They are, but there's a new book by a guy called Mark Lynas who looked at all the countries in the world and who would survive best a nuclear winter situation. And New Zealand is one of the worst places you can be.
40:47 Speaker 03 Really?
40:48 Speaker 04 Because they're very unself sufficient in food.
40:51 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
40:52 Speaker 04 They import a lot of food, so only 68% of Kiwis would survive a nuclear winter along the whole world.
40:59 Speaker 02 Is that the bird, the Kiwi, or is it the fruit?
41:03 Speaker 04 The best places, any of the best places to live?
41:05 Speaker 02 Oh, um, is it, someone once told me, um, that it's in the UK if you go like, nope.
41:14 Speaker 04 In the UK, 99% of people will die.
41:16 Speaker 02 Oh, yikes.
41:17 Speaker 04 But because we're not self sufficient with food.
41:19 Speaker 02 But I want to focus on that 1% James, that's, that's who I'm absolutely. The change you want to see in the world, yeah, yeah.
41:25 Speaker 03 I've got 50 cans of beans under my stairs, you're joking me?
41:28 Speaker 04 You will be the 1%, I reckon, living in your self sufficient, um, world.
41:32 Speaker 03 I'm highly allergic to beans, that's the only problem.
41:38 Speaker 02 So someone that's self sufficient in terms of food?
41:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:41 Speaker 05 That's really interesting. Is it somewhere in?
41:44 Speaker 04 And energy and various different things.
41:46 Speaker 03 Oh, it's like Sweden or Norway or something like that.
41:48 Speaker 04 Um, I'll give you Iceland.
41:51 Speaker 03 Thank you.
41:51 Speaker 05 Oh, because they've got all the geothermal.
41:53 Speaker 02 Oh, and they've got all those great aisles of options.
41:56 Speaker 04 Um, Australia, Iceland, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Costa Rica and Haiti, uh, the places which are, they're kind of self sufficient in themselves that they can feed their whole population.
42:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, right, right, right. Because, because in Australia, you said, is sort of, they, I think they've got so much solar power, they've just been going to give everyone three hours of free electricity.
42:14 Speaker 04 And they've got very low population as well.
42:16 Speaker 02 Right, right, right.
42:17 Speaker 03 Australia is a good place to go.
42:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, and also they have lots of different sort of, um, climates there. So you could grow lots of stuff in the north that you can't grow in the south and stuff in the south you can't grow in the north. So if you need all the different vitamins.
42:28 Speaker 03 If everyone was wiped out in England, I'd just sort of go along as well. I'm not, I'm not that interested in living underground for five years on some tins.
42:36 Speaker 05 You live near the Ramsgate tunnels, which are perfectly, perfectly set, they're already set up. They've got the bunk beds left over from the war in there.
42:43 Speaker 02 Oh, Fenelon and I will fit in nicely.
42:48 Speaker 03 I'll be running my cult. No touching it.
42:57 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
43:12 Speaker 07 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
43:23 Speaker 06 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
43:28 Speaker 08 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.
43:34 Speaker 06 So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
43:56 Speaker 02 Okay, it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that at Morrissey gigs, security had been known to pat down fans to search them for meat.
44:09 Speaker 03 Wow.
44:10 Speaker 05 The idea of a big security scanner going off, you just see the shape of a pork chop in someone's pocket. Or a sausage.
44:18 Speaker 02 Or a sausage, yeah.
44:19 Speaker 03 I did the same at my gigs, actually.
44:20 Speaker 02 Do you?
44:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, but I'm sort of wanting to find the meat.
44:24 Speaker 02 Are you doing the pat downs yourself?
44:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, I am, yeah. I'm doing the pat downs, yeah.
44:28 Speaker 02 A meet and greet with Lou Sanders has a very different meaning.
44:31 Speaker 03 I pay you. I pay you to meet and greet you.
44:37 Speaker 02 So this is Morrissey, singer from the band The Smiths, who's had a very long solo career after their breakup. And he is a committed vegetarian and vegan, and he hates meat to the point that if it is even in the air, if he can even smell it at a gig, he will be known to walk offstage. So he always says that if he's going to play a venue, you're not allowed to sell meat in the venue for that specific gig. So if he was playing, let's say, the O2 in London... That would be one of the conditions that he would have. And in 2011, fans were reporting that as they were coming through the security barriers, men and women were patting them down, searching for meat.
45:15 Speaker 04 No, I think it's fair enough.
45:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:17 Speaker 04 It's his gig.
45:18 Speaker 05 I think the searching is a bit, I think the searching is because once or twice he's had sausages thrown at him on stage.
45:25 Speaker 03 No.
45:26 Speaker 05 Yeah, which I don't think is on. I do think that's, I do think that's poor form.
45:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:32 Speaker 05 Do you need to search everyone for meat?
45:34 Speaker 04 Just the people who look suspicious. They, they look like they might be packing a suspicious sausage.
45:38 Speaker 05 But you.
45:39 Speaker 03 Anyone in tie dye comes straight through.
45:42 Speaker 05 But you can, meat is, I would say, quite easy to smuggle.
45:46 Speaker 04 Yeah, because you're made of meat. So there's no way they could do like a X-ray thing because your whole body's meat.
45:52 Speaker 02 It's only if there's, if there's an extra bone, you would spot that. If someone's smuggling in a.
45:58 Speaker 04 T-bone steak.
45:59 Speaker 02 A T-bone steak.
46:01 Speaker 04 Well, yeah, I agree. I think it's a bit much, but.
46:03 Speaker 02 It's a bit much. He's, he said he's, he doesn't identify with the term vegan. Like he's managed to find an even smaller subset of.
46:09 Speaker 03 What does he identify with then?
46:10 Speaker 02 He says, he just says, I refuse to eat anything that had a mother. Uh, he says he's never had a curry or coffee or garlic.
46:17 Speaker 03 Coffee got a mother?
46:21 Speaker 03 Not related.
46:23 Speaker 05 But he said his diet consists of bread, potatoes, pasta and nuts. So it feels, it feels more like a sort of Channel Four documentary about a fussy eater.
46:32 Speaker 02 This is, this is interesting though, his influence, despite him being this character that people find quite difficult.
46:38 Speaker 03 People get annoyed with vegans and my theory is that because they know that they shouldn't really be eating, something in them feels a bit icky about eating animals. They feel embarrassed about themselves.
46:51 Speaker 02 That's possible.
46:52 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:53 Speaker 02 Um, Coachella, the big festival.
46:56 Speaker 05 Really tried hard to get a Smiths reunion and there's been so much fallout between the members Johnny Marr and Morrissey don't particularly.
47:04 Speaker 04 They do not get on.
47:05 Speaker 05 They do not get on and so Coachella said, we want you to get back, we're going to pay you a lot of money and we will make Coachella a vegetarian.
47:13 Speaker 02 Oh, wow.
47:14 Speaker 05 Experience and he said, I would rather eat my own testicles.
47:17 Speaker 03 Why?
47:18 Speaker 05 Which is not very vegan, but he, uh, cause this is how much the band do not like each other, I'm afraid.
47:24 Speaker 02 Oh dear, this will be us in 30 years.
47:26 Speaker 04 I think last, maybe last year, they almost got together and Morrissey wanted them to get together because they got offered an insane amount of money, but Johnny Marr said no.
47:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:35 Speaker 03 Oh, wow. He could have given it to the animal charities.
47:38 Speaker 05 Um, Morrissey has cancelled a gig in Iceland over their meat policy.
47:42 Speaker 04 The supermarket.
47:43 Speaker 05 Yeah, they do a lot of prawn rings, don't they? You know? Um, I'm sorry.
47:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:48 Speaker 05 No, Iceland, geothermally powered country, Iceland, um, but the, the venue just refused to stop selling meat for one day. And he said, I love Iceland and have waited a long time to return, but I shall leave the Harpak concert hall to their cannibalistic flesh eating bloodlust.
48:03 Speaker 03 Wow.
48:04 Speaker 05 He's not afraid to put together a pity quote for a press release, I'll say that.
48:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah. I think it's crazy that a venue couldn't stop selling meat for a day because it's so bad for the planet as well. You'd think, you know, just don't sell meat for a day, people will cope.
48:17 Speaker 04 I think the thing is with Iceland though, they have like a history of eating lots of meat because they've not been able to grow plants for many hundreds of years, especially in the winter. So they really do have a very big culture of eating.
48:29 Speaker 05 Wet, wet whales.
48:31 Speaker 04 Whales, yeah, puffins, fish.
48:33 Speaker 05 I think you're right, Luke. I think the vegan thing is really interesting because I think he's, he's been very provocative in the way he presents it, like his tour gigs.
48:39 Speaker 03 Well, do you know what's provocative?
48:40 Speaker 05 Videos of slaughterhouses.
48:41 Speaker 03 Slaughterhouses are provocative.
48:42 Speaker 05 Absolutely, absolutely. And I think probably he sort of deliberately does it in an abrasive way, maybe because he's trying to shock people into it.
48:49 Speaker 03 And no one's listening.
48:50 Speaker 05 Well, I think it works on only a small percentage of people. I think people are likely to shut it out if something is so upsetting. I think it's like the veganism movement has had a bit of a stumble in recent years. It's a bit less popular than it was about five years ago. And just a lot of people have sort of thought, oh, the world is quite difficult now. I can't quite be bothered to
49:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:06 Speaker 05 to cut out everything. And, you know, like vegetarians sometimes get stick for not being vegans and that like that kind of thing. So it's, I think it's tricky how you sort of softly, softly people into it.
49:16 Speaker 02 Yeah. Do you guys remember that Morrissey wrote a novel? And it became quite well known for the fact that it contained possibly the worst sex scene of the year included in the book.
49:26 Speaker 04 Did it win? There's an award for worst sex.
49:28 Speaker 02 It did. It won the 2015 worst sex scene. So his book was called List of the Lost.
49:33 Speaker 03 Could you read it in a sexy voice?
49:35 Speaker 02 Yeah. Well, do you wanna, do you wanna?
49:36 Speaker 03 I know, I want to.
49:37 Speaker 02 Okay, here we go. Eliza and Ezra rolled together in the one giggling snowball of full-figured copulation, screaming and shouting as they playfully bit and pulled each other in a dangerous and cool. I think it's good so far.
49:50 Speaker 05 Yeah.
49:52 Speaker 03 Sorry, how's everyone else doing it?
49:57 Speaker 02 In a clamorous rollercoaster coil of sexually violent rotation with Eliza's breasts barrel-rolled across Ezra's howling mouth and painted, and the pained frenzy of his bulbous salut- sal- salut- what's that? Sal- salutation, sorry. Extenuating his excitement as it whacked and smacked its way into every muscle of Eliza's body except for the otherwise central zone.
50:23 Speaker 05 This is a Tuesday night in my house. This is just, this is just Tuesdays.
50:26 Speaker 03 That's mad.
50:28 Speaker 04 I think, I do think sexy novels are a bit less sexy when you have to ask people, can you tell me what this word is?
50:34 Speaker 03 But that is insane. He's never had sex.
50:37 Speaker 05 I'm sorry, I think that's good.
50:39 Speaker 04 No, there are so many mixed metaphors in there.
50:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:43 Speaker 04 They're like a snowball and they're like a roller coaster.
50:45 Speaker 05 It's a clamorous rollercoaster coil. Yeah.
50:48 Speaker 03 And it's quite aggressive, not, not at all.
50:51 Speaker 02 Sexually violent rotation is a bit, I mean, if your breasts are doing barrel rolls.
50:55 Speaker 03 That's the least, imagine, like.
50:57 Speaker 02 That's RAF stuff, isn't it? That's like, that's the red arrows, you know?
51:03 Speaker 05 And your bulbous salutation is a bit.
51:05 Speaker 03 That's mad.
51:08 Speaker 04 Bulbous salutations feels like they might support the smokes, don't they?
51:12 Speaker 05 On Morrissey's books.
51:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:14 Speaker 05 He has been a bit controversial because he wrote an autobiography, a memoir, and it was published by Penguin Classics.
51:22 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
51:23 Speaker 05 Yeah. So same list as Ovid, Homer's Odyssey. And he's basically said, I'll do, I'll do a book, but only if it goes in straight as a Penguin classic.
51:31 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:31 Speaker 03 Oh, wow. A Penguin classic. Sorry, I didn't really take notice.
51:35 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah.
51:36 Speaker 02 So it didn't come out in hardback, which would be your traditional release. It was straight into a paperback with the classic look of it.
51:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:43 Speaker 05 Wow. Plato is, they're on the same list.
51:46 Speaker 04 I think it's bold. And I think it got him a lot of publicity, didn't it?
51:49 Speaker 05 Yeah.
51:49 Speaker 04 Mostly negative.
51:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:52 Speaker 05 But he's got a long history of writing. So when he, before he was a pop star, he wrote unsolicited script for Coronation Street.
51:57 Speaker 03 Did they go with it or not?
51:58 Speaker 05 He sent it them. He sent them a script where the Rovers return installs a jukebox and they did not go with it.
52:04 Speaker 04 It's basically fanfiction, isn't it?
52:05 Speaker 05 It's basically fanfiction. Yeah, yeah.
52:08 Speaker 02 I found one other example, just while we're still on Morrissey slash musicians, of people who are very strict vegan slash vegetarians, to the point where it almost seems a bit awkward. Katie Lang.
52:23 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah.
52:23 Speaker 02 Katie Lang once refused to meet the singer Meatloaf.
52:28 Speaker 03 Because of his name.
52:29 Speaker 02 Because of his name.
52:30 Speaker 04 That's so amazing. Come on.
52:32 Speaker 02 Yeah. It was an interview from Meatloaf where he said, I was a vegetarian for 10 years and I was sitting next to Jon Bon Jovi at an awards thing. And I said, oh, man, I'd love to meet Katie Lang. I'd really love to meet her. They went to find out if that's okay. She said, no, his name is Meatloaf.
52:47 Speaker 04 But he was a vegetarian at the time?
52:48 Speaker 02 Possibly he'd lapsed at that point, but he had been a vegetarian at some point for 10 years.
52:52 Speaker 05 Crazy.
52:52 Speaker 02 Yeah.
52:53 Speaker 04 I think, I think that's a bit strict of Katie there.
52:55 Speaker 02 Yeah.
52:56 Speaker 04 I just, while we're on sort of pop stars and stuff, before we get into veganism, I had a look at some other riders that people have. So Kanye West, apparently, when he played later with Jules Holland, that he must have his dressing room carpet ironed.
53:10 Speaker 03 Wow.
53:12 Speaker 04 Eminem, apparently when he played at a festival in Northern Ireland, insisted on a koi carp pond. Okay. And according to TMZ, there's a rapper called DMX, who I'm not massively familiar with. Oh yeah, he's a biggie though. Yeah, he is big. For every rider, he wants a bottle of Hennessy and three boxes of condoms.
53:33 Speaker 05 Three boxes, which boxes?
53:34 Speaker 04 Three boxes.
53:36 Speaker 05 Well, sometimes the boxes are fewer.
53:38 Speaker 04 Like, so even if there was three in a box, Andy, you reckon you could get through nine before a gig?
53:44 Speaker 05 Not before, not before the gig.
53:45 Speaker 03 When I'm at the Bill Murray, it's a similar story. It's a similar story. It seats 90, you know?
53:54 Speaker 03 I'm optimistic. No, that's mad.
53:57 Speaker 04 That's mad. I was wondering if he might be using them to carry water, because they're quite good for that.
54:01 Speaker 05 We've had to tell them they're good for water.
54:04 Speaker 03 I heard that Drake puts, when he finishes off, in a condom, because he doesn't want, you know, kids with some, like, you know, stranger that he's, yeah, sleeping with. He puts like chili flakes in the remnants or something, so they can't shove it up them.
54:21 Speaker 04 Oh, oh.
54:23 Speaker 03 That's what I heard.
54:23 Speaker 04 So people might take the condom and then shove, yeah, and chili flakes is going to stop them. I mean, if you're mental enough to want to do the first part of that, do you think the chili flakes would stop you?
54:34 Speaker 05 Condoms are naturally spermicide, spermicide covered, aren't they?
54:37 Speaker 04 The spermicide's on the outside of a condom.
54:39 Speaker 03 So it's, it's, it's.
54:40 Speaker 04 I just thought it was all.
54:43 Speaker 03 How many kids you got?
54:44 Speaker 04 Inside out, not back to front.
54:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, well, is that true?
54:52 Speaker 03 That's what I've heard. But if it is any of it true, because the rumours of the, the, the riders, you could just make that up, couldn't you?
54:59 Speaker 04 Yeah, absolutely. And I wouldn't be 100% certain that any of the things I said are true. Well, you've toured, Lou, you recently toured.
55:06 Speaker 03 I did. The only thing I asked for was not a plastic bottle of water. So either like a jug, a filter jug.
55:14 Speaker 04 A condom full.
55:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:17 Speaker 03 Or like cans, I guess, of water.
55:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's fair.
55:20 Speaker 03 Because I don't know, they call the plastic bottles.
55:22 Speaker 04 Yeah, fair enough.
55:22 Speaker 03 I guess I'm a good person. I guess I'm just, what I'm saying here subtly is like, I'm a good guy.
55:27 Speaker 05 You're the moral of your comedy.
55:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:28 Speaker 05 Yeah.
55:29 Speaker 03 But better, but better, but better.
55:33 Speaker 02 Um, joke alert. Does Eminem ask on his rider to have all the Van Halens removed from his dressing room? I love it.
55:39 Speaker 04 Very good.
55:39 Speaker 02 Only the brown ones?
55:47 Speaker 02 Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we're all online. You can get us on Instagram. That's where I am, on at Shreiberland. James? My Instagram is No Such Thing As James Harkin. Uh, Andy? Mine is at Andrew Hunter M. Yeah, and Lou?
56:06 Speaker 03 You just search Lou Sanders and it will come up. And I've just done a Substack note and it's got two likes, so join, join in.
56:14 Speaker 02 Oh, I think that's the first Substack we've got. Be that third like. Hear that? Yeah. Well, cults, they start small.
56:21 Speaker 03 Well, it's worse because I've got over 4,000 subscribers, but they're not, they're not, they're not into what I'm doing, I suppose. Anyway.
56:29 Speaker 02 Yeah. Or if you want to get to us as a group, you can message us on podcast at qi.com. Send us an email there with anything you want to chat about, any extra facts that you have. We often go through the inbox and Andy will cherry pick out the best of those to bring to our mailbag episodes that we do called Drop Us A Line, which can be found in a very secret place. Lou, it's called Club Fish. It's a secret, exclusive members club. It's a cult. It's a cult. No sex. There's not a flicker of sex going on there.
56:58 Speaker 03 I'd not be joining.
57:00 Speaker 02 No bulbous salutations, I'm afraid. And yeah, we will read out the best of those emails on there. So check out Club Fish. You can check that out by going to nosuchthingasafish.com. We've also got other stuff up there, like merchandise that you can buy. We've got all of our previous episodes, but if not, just come back again next week because we will be here with another episode. We will see you then. Goodbye.
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