Pod Insights No Such Thing As A Fish No Such Thing As Doing A Solzhenitsyn About this episode Daliso Chaponda joins Dan, James and Andy to discuss space, scrabble, smuggling and cichlids.
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Transcript 12,021 words · 7 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 Stop the podcast.
0:01 Speaker 01 Stop the podcast.
0:02 Speaker 00 Hi, everybody. We are sponsored this week by Progressive.
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0:59 Speaker 01 Hi, everybody. Andy and Dan here. Welcome to this episode of No Such Thing As A Fish. We've got a very exciting guest today.
1:04 Speaker 03 We do. We have the brilliant Deliso Chapanda. Deliso, some of you will know from being a finalist on Britain's Got Talent a few years ago. He's an amazingly funny stand-up comedian, and we were very excited that he was going to join us on the show because he's a big old nerd. He's written a sci-fi set of short stories that you can buy on Amazon and other online stores, but he's going on tour as well.
1:25 Speaker 01 He certainly is. His show is called Topical Storm. You see, because it's about the devolved news and it's about the news.
1:32 Speaker 03 So that's a good title, is what you're saying?
1:33 Speaker 01 It's a really good title, and it's a really good tour, and he's going all over the place with it. Where's he going? Let's see, Stockton-on-Tees, Chipping Norton, London, and various other places of roughly the same size.
1:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it's happening now. He's on tour right now. So do get your tickets because you don't want to miss out on it. He's absolutely brilliant.
1:50 Speaker 01 His website is delisotraponda.com.
1:53 Speaker 03 Now, you're probably also thinking, "God, it'd be great to see Deliso, but damn it, we'd love to see Fish live as well, but you're not doing any shows."
1:58 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And what about a live show involving Anna?
2:01 Speaker 03 Who?
2:02 Speaker 01 Anna Torenski, when she's back very soon. Well, have we got a surprise for you. We're going to be doing a live show this August in London. Lund at the Lund Comedy Festival in Sweden.
2:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's right. We're really excited for it. It's gonna be a live show recording. If you have spare dosh to buy a plane ticket, why don't you come from the UK as well? Because it's gonna be a great night and it's the live return of Anna Tashinsky to the stage. Tickets are on sale now. You just need to go to nosuchthingasafish.com/lund.
2:31 Speaker 01 That's right. Saturday, the 29th of August at 7pm. Come and see our impression of the Swedish chef, live!
2:37 Speaker 03 Oh dear. Alright, yeah. Watch us be booted out of the country. Anyway, on with the show.
2:44 Speaker 01 On with the podcast.
3:00 Speaker 03 Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Holborn. My name is Dan Schreiber. I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter-Murray, and Deliso Chapanda. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in a particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, that is Deliso.
3:25 Speaker 04 So my fact is in 1981, more than 1 million bibles were smuggled into China by water.
3:33 Speaker 03 Hmm, in one go.
3:36 Speaker 04 In one go?
3:36 Speaker 01 It's a lot, because normally you smuggle things, you know, bit by bit.
3:40 Speaker 04 Also, usually you're smuggling cocaine or weapons, not bibles. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's what I love most about it. The way they smuggled it, it didn't go in the bum. It didn't go in the bum. You'd have to have very small bibles if you're.
3:58 Speaker 03 Yeah, there would have been major theological chats about what that implied if you did that.
4:04 Speaker 04 You could do it nowadays, though, because now they're USB sticks.
4:07 Speaker 03 Absolutely.
4:08 Speaker 04 Each bible. Yeah, but when I put the USB stick in my bum, I always put it the wrong way.
4:12 Speaker 05 Way around first of all, and then.
4:15 Speaker 01 Very strong.
4:16 Speaker 04 But no, so they they submerged tons of Bibles, literal tons. I'm not using the metaphor tons. It was they weighed tons of Bibles. And then they submerged them underneath a boat which was called Michael, which I think is honestly the least sexy sounding name for your clandestine.
4:39 Speaker 01 And in fact, Delisa, you say tons. It's a hundred and thirty nine tons in weight.
4:44 Speaker 04 Thirty nine tons.
4:45 Speaker 01 I know. And I believe they were small Bibles, as in they weren't the huge, you know, big desk ones. Because obviously, when you are smuggling, size matters. But this and this is because Christianity was suppressed at the time. Is that right? And owning a Bible, was it an offence at the time?
4:59 Speaker 04 There were a few Bibles, but it was it was being repressed. And so there weren't a lot of. It was after the Cultural Revolution and, you know, religion is the opiate of the masses. It's very vague exactly what the penalty would be if you had it, but there were no Bibles. So they had to sneak them in.
5:17 Speaker 03 Well, people go to jail. You still get people who are going to jail and being released back to. So they're being smuggled over from Hong Kong and so on. And so they'll be sent back after a few years in jail. So you will get jail time. It kind of depends on on the moment. But this was a huge operation. This was open doors, which is a smuggling industry. This extraordinary thing that was started by one man called Andrew Vanderbeil, who used to smuggle all of these Bibles into different countries. And then this was the ultimate project. How do we get all of these Bibles into China?
5:47 Speaker 05 Can you tell me more about exactly how it works? So did they put it underwater and drag it along or what? In a submarine or?
5:53 Speaker 01 Well, so they they built a special barge in the city of Shantou, which was designed to sink. So you do get submersible ships.
6:04 Speaker 04 Yes.
6:05 Speaker 01 We've talked before about when you need to give a, let's say you've got an oil carrier that's broken or something. You can get special ships which go which approach sink beneath, sink underneath and then lift up again. They're fantastic. And this was a similar principle. And the Bibles were all in watertight packaging, obviously. And then dragged onto the.
6:22 Speaker 04 And I'm fairly confident there were loads of believers who were on the beaches.
6:27 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:27 Speaker 04 And waded in, submerged up to their necks.
6:31 Speaker 05 Wow.
6:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:32 Speaker 04 Retrieving these tons of bibles and carrying them off. But also, some were believers and others were businessmen. Because there was a scarcity of bibles, bibles were very expensive. So there were other people who were in it because you could sell them to Christians.
6:48 Speaker 05 That doesn't sound very Catholic.
6:51 Speaker 03 And it sort of went wrong on the night. A lot of the authorities saw what they were doing and were arresting people. And a bunch of the bibles swept away into the ocean. So they thought, okay, that's it. But then fishermen, this is the story. There's so many weird stories about this. One of the stories goes that fishermen saw on the surface, these bibles gleaming like fish that they brought them in. And then they realized, oh, we've got all these bibles because they were watertight. So yeah, so the bibles found a way.
7:17 Speaker 04 And then even there was like some of the authorities grabbed bibles and they flung them into like sewage. And then believers climbed in right afterwards and retrieved them.
7:28 Speaker 05 How interesting. And this guy, so he's called Andrew van de Beil. And he wasn't just China, he did all of beyond the iron curtain, right? So it was Eastern Europe.
7:40 Speaker 04 There were a lot of volunteers because I heard about this because I do a lot of like religious shows. And I was doing Green Belt Festival in Cheltenham, which is like a religious kind of Glastonbury. And in the audience, there was one of the people who had volunteered for one of these project.
8:00 Speaker 05 In China or in Eastern Europe?
8:02 Speaker 04 In China.
8:02 Speaker 05 In China. Wow. Amazing. Gosh.
8:06 Speaker 04 I think he was doing a talk about it, but I was like, wow.
8:09 Speaker 05 What a story. I read that he would pray to God when he took his bibles across. And let's say he's going to Eastern Europe, he might take them in his car. Okay, so he's driving through the iron curtain. And people would check his car and he said he would pray to make seeing eyes blind. And the border patrol people would be searching his car and couldn't find the bibles, even though they were just sat there on his backseat. And he said that was because he prayed to God.
8:34 Speaker 04 That's a modern miracle. I'm surrounded by skeptics. I believe the man.
8:39 Speaker 03 He's dressed as a Bible because if you're dressed, you know, it's in plain sight.
8:44 Speaker 04 No, but it's also, look, it sounds like nonsense, but there's also a level where they're looking for weapons and things.
8:49 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:50 Speaker 04 So they'll just see a pile of books and they'll go past it. He what, do you know what I mean?
8:54 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:54 Speaker 04 Even though they are illegal, I wonder how high up on the border patrol's radar, bibles are because they're looking for weapons.
9:04 Speaker 05 In the Cultural Revolution, I think it was, right? And I think in Soviet Russia, it was as well. So do you guys know Vitaly Vitaliyev?
9:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:13 Speaker 05 You met him, you met him. So he used to work on QI for a little bit and he left Russia during the Soviet Union. But he did cross the border a few times and he said, when he was on a train and he would cross the border, people would come down the train shouting, "Bibles are pornography, bibles are pornography."
9:28 Speaker 04 Oh, that's great. It's like a personality test. Which one are you? And if you're both, the bibles pages are stuck together.
9:35 Speaker 05 I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's terrible. And that was like, you had to hand them in when they said that.
9:40 Speaker 03 Yeah, right. I really like the sound of this guy, purely just the adventure. So he wrote a book.
9:45 Speaker 05 Andrew Van de Beuille.
9:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, he wrote a book which is called God Smuggler. And it sold over 10 million copies supposedly, translated into 35 different languages. And every country seemed to bring in its own new Mr. Beanish moment. In Albania, he used to do sort of drop offs where he would just sort of put the bible down and walk off and, you know, and then people would find it and chase after him, going, "Your bible, you've left your bible." And so he was just constantly outed by people returning his lost property.
10:12 Speaker 05 Yeah.
10:13 Speaker 04 But I also think like, despite them trying to repress Christianity, it grew in China in these years. And I actually think part of it is, if it's forbidden and you're having to smuggle in bibles, it becomes more alluring.
10:27 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah.
10:29 Speaker 04 Like, it becomes like, oh, this is the truth because they don't want us to read the truth. And so places like the UK where you've got dwindling attendance, ban it. Ban it for a while.
10:40 Speaker 05 You know, the happy moments in the UK where people have been arrested for smuggling bibles, isn't there? So William Tindall and his mate who was called Monmouth, but I can't remember his name, Humphrey Monmouth. So we're talking quite a long time ago, we're talking Henry VIII times. But the thing was that these Bibles were written in English and so they're in the vernacular. And so you're allowed Bibles as long as they're in Latin, but if they were in English, you were in big, big trouble. Because the church wanted to control what was in the Bible. They wanted you to only hear what the priest had to say. They didn't want you to read it yourself and make your own ideas.
11:19 Speaker 01 So Tyndale was executed for this at the time, crime. The man who smuggled them in, Humphrey Monmouth, who was a cloth draper, he was smuggling them in in his ships. He was briefly imprisoned, but within a few years, every church in the country had one of these. And the King James Bible, which is maybe the most significant English translation ever, is one of the most beautiful. Our language is full of phrases from the King James. Eighty percent of it is Tyndale's translation. It's the absolute underpinning of the Bible in English.
11:53 Speaker 01 I have recently read a smuggled book. And I wasn't aware of, I wasn't aware when I picked it up and looked at it that this was, it was illegal. But I've just finished a book which was punishable by death in Italy at a certain point in history. And it was smuggled in. It's called The Moon Is Down, it's by John Steinbeck. And he wrote it explicitly as propaganda. He was working for the US government, early days of American involvement in the Second World War. It's a tale of a nameless European town where a nameless army invades and takes over. There are collaborators and it's a story of the invading army being resisted by the population.
12:35 Speaker 01 And them slowly cracking up as they realise the awfulness of this war and what they've done. Well, you know, they'll, they'll never be forgiven for it, it will never end, all of this, and the people will throw them out. And in Italy, if you had a copy, you could be punished with the death.
12:49 Speaker 05 I've been to the Museum of Banned Books, which is in Tallinn, I think, in Estonia. It's really cool. It's just a very small place run by one guy. It's basically a bookshop, to be honest, and you can buy all these books that have been banned everywhere else in the world. And I think there's one. One book that even he doesn't keep on display and he keeps under the counter.
13:07 Speaker 03 Really? Do you remember what it was?
13:09 Speaker 05 If memory serves, I think, is it, oh, I've forgotten what it's called now. Is it the Anarchist Handbook or something?
13:15 Speaker 03 The Anarchist Cookbook.
13:16 Speaker 05 Cookbook, that's it, yeah, yeah.
13:18 Speaker 04 Well, that tells you how to build bombs.
13:19 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly.
13:20 Speaker 03 So, I was at home, um, last year, I think, maybe the year before, and I was, I can't remember now, it's just, this has reminded me.
13:27 Speaker 01 You go home all the time, though.
13:29 Speaker 03 No, it's once or twice a year. I've got to say hi to the kids.
13:33 Speaker 03 I was going through some boxes and I found a box of books that were given to me by a friend who moved overseas. And I opened it up and in it was the Anarchist Cookbook.
13:42 Speaker 04 Wow.
13:42 Speaker 03 I didn't know that that was a smuggled book or that it's illegal, because it is still illegal to own it in this country. So, that night, on Instagram, I posted a picture of me reading this book, going, sitting down to a nice book and a glass of wine and I'm holding it. And I posted it and I went to sleep. I woke up in the morning to about 20 DMs saying, take that down immediately. This is an illegal book. People have gone to jail in the UK.
14:05 Speaker 01 Put that up your bum right now, mister.
14:09 Speaker 03 And dive, dive, dive. Yeah. So I had to get, I didn't know if I had to go to the police to give it to them. I didn't do that.
14:16 Speaker 05 That's embarrassing.
14:18 Speaker 03 I know, right?
14:19 Speaker 04 That book, it's, it's cause it's, it actually tells you how to make weapons, but a lot of books which are banned, it backfires because it makes you want to read it. So I read the Satanic Verses when I was a teenager, right? It's an extremely difficult book to read.
14:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:34 Speaker 04 It's extremely dense. You need to be a university student, but because it was banned, we read it with our dictionaries and tried to figure it out. And I actually think, you know, the banning of it made it more.
14:44 Speaker 01 Absolutely. I still haven't finished.
14:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:47 Speaker 01 The Satanic Verses.
14:48 Speaker 03 I've just started it as of last week.
14:50 Speaker 01 Oh.
14:50 Speaker 03 How odd. And, um.
14:52 Speaker 05 Can I just say for anyone listening, I've never read it. I do not intend to read it.
14:56 Speaker 03 Well, there's an amazing book called Joseph Anton, which is Salman Rushdie's whole experience of what happened once the fatwa was put on him. And he was saying that the book is known as something called the Page 15 Club, because most people can't get past page 15 of it. So you're part of a club if you've started and you've never gone further than that. But yeah, exactly. More dangerous because of the, uh, the banning of it.
15:16 Speaker 05 The banning of it.
15:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:17 Speaker 01 Can I tell you my favourite book smuggling?
15:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:20 Speaker 01 Incident. Okay, so Cold War, we've mentioned this Eastern Bloc, there was a lot of book smuggling into the Soviet Union. There were a lot of banned texts and the CIA had a programme smuggling in works which they saw as spreading, you know, freedom, democracy, that kind of thing. Things like 1984, The Guardian Weekly, which I find rather nice. You know, because The Guardian did a weekly magazine.
15:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:42 Speaker 01 And it was all sort, you know, they smuggled in miniature books in tampon boxes and sugar packets. I mean, I presume tiny.
15:49 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:50 Speaker 01 But I just love this wonderful detail of the CIA operation. In one instance, Alexander Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago was carried onto a plane to Warsaw in a baby's nappy.
16:01 Speaker 04 Oh, wonderful.
16:02 Speaker 01 I know.
16:02 Speaker 04 Oh, wonderful.
16:04 Speaker 05 In our family, whenever my daughter needs to be changed, we say she's done a Solzhenitsyn.
16:11 Speaker 05 My favourite one is in Romania. So in 2013, there were people started smuggling books into prisons.
16:18 Speaker 04 Okay.
16:19 Speaker 05 And this is really interesting. So they changed the law in 2013 that meant if you were in prison for like a white collar crime, let's say, you could get 30 days off your sentence for every book that you wrote.
16:32 Speaker 04 30 days?
16:33 Speaker 01 Wait, wait, wrote?
16:35 Speaker 05 Yes. So if you wrote a book, Andy, like you'd knock your books off in two weeks.
16:39 Speaker 01 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. That's why it's back out so quickly.
16:44 Speaker 05 But if you wrote a book, then you get a month off your sentence.
16:48 Speaker 04 Wow.
16:48 Speaker 05 So a lot of like people who are in for fraud or tycoons or former politicians or something, suddenly started knocking out books left, right and centre. Now, have you, you've written a book of short stories, which I have. And it takes a long time.
17:02 Speaker 04 It does.
17:02 Speaker 05 That you did those over years and years, didn't you?
17:04 Speaker 04 Yeah.
17:05 Speaker 05 So what they did is they would get like experts in a subject to write a book. Then they would smuggle them into the jail and then they would just copy them out and then put by.
17:17 Speaker 04 By whoever.
17:18 Speaker 05 And then say, written, 30 days off, please.
17:21 Speaker 04 Oh, they copied their homework.
17:22 Speaker 05 So for instance, there was a former politician called Georgia Kopos, who wrote about the matrimonial alliances of medieval Romanian rulers.
17:32 Speaker 01 Did no one write in my brain. I'd be writing all this from memory. That's very impressive.
17:38 Speaker 05 And there was a guy called Rialini Lupsa, who was a pop singer, who went to prison for fraud, who wrote a book about stem cells in dental medicine.
17:48 Speaker 04 And he's already in prison for fraud.
17:50 Speaker 05 Yeah.
17:50 Speaker 04 You'd think they'd be like, I'm not sure you're on the up and up.
17:55 Speaker 05 Isn't that amazing?
17:56 Speaker 01 That's incredible.
18:00 Speaker 00 Stop the podcast.
18:01 Speaker 01 Stop the podcast.
18:02 Speaker 00 Hi, everybody. We are sponsored this week by Progressive.
18:05 Speaker 01 That's right. So everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? I'm talking outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates. Where do you even start?
18:15 Speaker 00 Yes, it is a nightmare. Well, protecting your home and your auto is a great place to start.
18:22 Speaker 01 Progressive offers customized coverage options, so you can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones.
18:28 Speaker 00 They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, and baby gates of insurance.
18:32 Speaker 01 Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com.
18:35 Speaker 00 Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. On with the show.
18:42 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
18:57 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
19:08 Speaker 06 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
19:41 Speaker 01 Okay, it's time for fact number two, and that is Andy. My fact is, Lake Malawi contains a thousand species of the same kind of fish. One lake, a thousand different species.
19:54 Speaker 05 Big lake.
19:55 Speaker 01 Very big lake.
19:56 Speaker 04 Big lake, there are waves.
19:57 Speaker 01 That is.
19:59 Speaker 04 When I first went there, I didn't know lakes could have waves.
20:01 Speaker 05 Oh, really?
20:02 Speaker 01 As in, like breakers, like surfables?
20:05 Speaker 04 They're smaller waves, but I'm sure there are times of the year when it's larger, but it has waves.
20:09 Speaker 05 Wow.
20:10 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
20:10 Speaker 04 And I always thought a lake was like a glorified pond, and I was like, no, it's a reef.
20:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:15 Speaker 03 It's got beaches, it's got, yeah.
20:17 Speaker 01 It's huge, and it's got a lot of cichlid fishes. More than a thousand species. So this is absolutely bizarre. I mean, they arrived in the lake, you know, one species arrived in the lake maybe three million years ago, some millions of years ago. Why are there so many now? How have they split off from each other?
20:36 Speaker 05 Okay, here's the thing, like, you have a type of mouse, right? Comes into an area, and then some of them are born here, some of them are born here, and then there's a, something goes in between them, some kind of barrier, which means that the ones on one side can't mate with the ones on the other, and eventually they become new species, right?
20:51 Speaker 04 Right.
20:52 Speaker 05 In a lake, how does that work? Like, I know there's waves and everything, but like, what is stopping them from mating?
20:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, so there was a study of this, and it's a theory, but it's reasonably convincing. There are a few different ideas. One of them was a team of scientists led by Christopher Schultz, who looked at this, and found that historically, the level of the water in Lake Malawi is about 700 metres deep, I think at the deepest. But it has gone up and down and up and down and up and down. And it's plunged by at least 200 metres, more than 20 times over its history. And so every time that happens, things change in the lake, the shoreline moves, the pH levels change, and sometimes it even splits into smaller lakes before the waters rise again and it's reunited. So if the lake is split into smaller lakes, those fish in each of those smaller areas
21:42 Speaker 01 will split off from each other, spend time, you know, specialising at breeding in among themselves.
21:48 Speaker 05 Yeah.
21:48 Speaker 01 Then suddenly, when the lake is reunited. Reunited, you've got different species.
21:52 Speaker 04 That makes sense. Like, that makes sense actually, but I envision a kind of reverse Tower of Babel kind of situation where the fish were trying to burrow their way down to the Almighty. And the Almighty was like, no! And they all speak different languages now.
22:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, that's not been tested fully.
22:09 Speaker 04 That's not been tested.
22:11 Speaker 03 But it's a strong, it's a strong, yeah.
22:13 Speaker 04 Strong.
22:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's good. So this, we should say it is massive, this lake, right? It's a fifth of Malawi is this lake, basically.
22:22 Speaker 04 It used to be called Lake Nyasa, because when the British arrived in Malawi, they called it Nyasaland. And then after independence, we became Malawi.
22:31 Speaker 03 Well, it's also, it's also called the Calendar Lake, which is quite a cool name. It's because roughly it's 365 miles long and 52 miles wide at its widest. So it's a calendar.
22:45 Speaker 04 Oh, it's a calendar.
22:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, 365 days, 52 weeks. And they say, and I couldn't prove this, but 12 main rivers flow into it as well. So it even breaks down into 12 months a year.
22:56 Speaker 05 Probably there's like a few more. They're like, oh, that one doesn't go out.
22:59 Speaker 03 And I think there is a main river.
23:00 Speaker 04 But that one, that one's a tricky tree.
23:03 Speaker 03 But I think there are a few miles that they're shuffing off as well when they measure it.
23:07 Speaker 05 The fastest swim across Lake Malawi was 7 hours, 42 minutes and 47 seconds. What do you think was the fastest swim from top to bottom?
23:18 Speaker 01 So it, it looks like an exclamation mark, doesn't it? It's 50 miles across, but 360.
23:23 Speaker 05 It's like this country of Chile.
23:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:25 Speaker 05 So 7 hours.
23:26 Speaker 04 Seven hours.
23:27 Speaker 05 Yeah.
23:27 Speaker 04 So some maniac.
23:30 Speaker 04 So, so maybe it was 49 hours.
23:35 Speaker 05 It was 63 days.
23:38 Speaker 04 You can't swim for that.
23:39 Speaker 05 I know, it was in stages.
23:41 Speaker 03 You do, sorry.
23:41 Speaker 04 Stop in there.
23:42 Speaker 05 And it was by Martin Hobbs from South Africa, who I'm sure is not a maniac.
23:46 Speaker 04 He's a maniac, he's a maniac. Like, all of these people, like, I've met Eddie Izzard, and I was like, you're a madman. Like, who are these people swimming across things for no reason?
23:57 Speaker 01 Doesn't it have crocodiles in it, like Malawi?
24:00 Speaker 03 Does it?
24:00 Speaker 05 It has hippos.
24:01 Speaker 04 It has hippos.
24:02 Speaker 03 Oh, that's worse.
24:03 Speaker 05 Yeah.
24:03 Speaker 01 Neither is good if they're close.
24:05 Speaker 04 So this is the thing is, if you are near a hippo's child, a hippo's worse than a crocodile. But if you leave the hippo alone, and there are no children present, hippo is a very...
24:14 Speaker 05 What you really have to look out for is the hungry, hungry hippos.
24:18 Speaker 01 The worst, the absolute worst. I read about him, James, the Martin Hobbs guy.
24:23 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah.
24:24 Speaker 01 So, six years before he swam from the top to the bottom of Lake Malawi, he had never swam a mile.
24:30 Speaker 03 Six years before, okay.
24:32 Speaker 04 And so just started.
24:33 Speaker 01 He started, I think he had an injury. I think he was already a sportsman.
24:36 Speaker 04 Yes.
24:37 Speaker 01 And then he had an injury, which meant he couldn't do his original sport.
24:39 Speaker 03 Right.
24:40 Speaker 01 And then he took to swimming. But isn't that, just imagine, six years from now, we could all be.
24:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:44 Speaker 01 On the northern shore of Lake Malawi.
24:46 Speaker 05 Race.
24:47 Speaker 01 Ready to set off.
24:49 Speaker 03 The, uh, the fish that are in there, there are some pretty wild varieties.
24:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:53 Speaker 03 There's one which is called the eye-biter. Have you heard of the eye-biter?
24:57 Speaker 01 And how does it get that name?
24:58 Speaker 03 So. Basically, they found eyes in its stomach and they think that it, they don't know if it's eating the eyes as nourishment, or if it's taking the eyes out of the, the predator or the, the one.
25:09 Speaker 01 What?
25:10 Speaker 03 The one that it wants to eat. Yeah, of the other fish. So it eats fish, eats the eyes, therefore it has a better chance of killing it altogether.
25:17 Speaker 04 Right.
25:18 Speaker 01 So you start with the eyes.
25:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
25:19 Speaker 04 Start with the eyes.
25:20 Speaker 01 And this leads to the joke, doesn't it? What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fush?
25:23 Speaker 03 Yes.
25:24 Speaker 05 What do you call a fish with no eyes? Dimidochromis compressiseps. That's what I call it.
25:30 Speaker 04 There were eyes in that. It should have spelled D E. It should have spelled D E M. Dem, dem.
25:37 Speaker 05 Yeah, but that behaviour's never been observed in the wild, I read.
25:40 Speaker 03 Exactly. So it's.
25:41 Speaker 04 Right.
25:42 Speaker 03 It's a theory.
25:43 Speaker 01 It's our fault?
25:43 Speaker 03 They have found the eyeballs.
25:44 Speaker 04 They've seen the eyes, but they've never seen the.
25:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
25:47 Speaker 05 Exactly.
25:48 Speaker 04 Because, you know, Attenborough has no time to go film Lake Malawi.
25:54 Speaker 05 Here's another one. The sleeper cichlid, which you get in Lake Malawi, it does a thing called thanatosis. And thanatosis is where you pretend to be dead.
26:04 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
26:04 Speaker 05 But they do it in a really awesome way. They lie down on the bottom of the sea and they can change their colour to like a blotchy, very sick-looking fish. And so the other fish go past and go, oh, God, he looks a bit sick. Like, he obviously was feeling terrible before he died. And then they go close to him and then it goes, ta-da, not dead after all. And then probably bites the eyes out of you.
26:26 Speaker 04 I'll tell you, I wasn't afraid of Lake Malawi, but this episode made me be like, why do I swim in there?
26:34 Speaker 05 There's also the Malawi squeaker that I found, um, which is a type of upside-down catfish. Right.
26:41 Speaker 01 So. Another question. Yeah. What's the, what's an upside down?
26:45 Speaker 05 Upside down catfish, they swim upside down so that their mouths are at the top of the water and they can eat bugs that are on the, on the surface.
26:52 Speaker 04 Oh, okay. I thought upside down catfish is they actually look better than their.
27:00 Speaker 05 And it's called the Malawi squeaker because when you take it out of the water, it goes squeak, squeak, squeak.
27:05 Speaker 01 Really?
27:06 Speaker 03 Oh, that's amazing.
27:07 Speaker 01 Oh.
27:07 Speaker 03 So I've read that it's very clear in Lake Malawi.
27:10 Speaker 01 So you swam in it?
27:11 Speaker 03 How far?
27:11 Speaker 04 Swam in it.
27:12 Speaker 03 Have you seen?
27:13 Speaker 04 No.
27:13 Speaker 03 Giant fish?
27:14 Speaker 04 No, no, no. You swim, like when you go to the ocean, you, you only swim.
27:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:19 Speaker 04 In the shallow area. You don't go way out there.
27:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
27:22 Speaker 04 Do you know what I mean? So I've, I've swam in it, but I've never been more than 50 meters out.
27:26 Speaker 05 Cause it's so big. Does it feel like you're in the sea?
27:29 Speaker 04 It feels like you're in the ocean, but it's not salty. It's, it's, it's, yeah.
27:34 Speaker 01 Interesting. I read that it gets waves up to six meters high, but that.
27:37 Speaker 03 Okay.
27:38 Speaker 01 That's huge.
27:39 Speaker 04 No, it gets, yeah, exactly what I mean. Like it felt like if you knocked me out, I would think I'm at the ocean.
27:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:45 Speaker 05 Yeah, you have special things. It's something called the Mwera winds that come every year in November, December and January. That made, basically fishermen can't go out that time either. So it's lots of people go fishing there, but you can't go in those times. But like at the start of November or the end of January, you kind of can do a little bit, but it's a bit dangerous. But if you go out fishing them, no one else is doing it. So you can sell your fish for way more.
28:11 Speaker 01 Oh, huh. Risk and reward.
28:13 Speaker 03 Cause those were the other names that it was given. David Livingstone, who was one of the first people to describe it for the West only. He called it the lake of storms and the lake of stars because you would see all the light of the fishermen in the distance.
28:26 Speaker 04 We have an annual festival called Lake of Stars.
28:29 Speaker 01 Ah.
28:29 Speaker 05 Where all these musicians come and people smoke weed and it.
28:35 Speaker 04 Oh, this is a fact, Malawi has the best weed in Africa.
28:38 Speaker 01 Really?
28:38 Speaker 04 Malawi gold, it's gold.
28:40 Speaker 01 Really?
28:40 Speaker 04 Everyone goes on about Malawi has no minerals, but we always say, we've got Malawi gold.
28:47 Speaker 04 That's the intro.
28:49 Speaker 05 We should say that you grew up in Malawi, did you not?
28:53 Speaker 04 No, I was a refugee, so my blood is Malawian, but my dad had to flee Malawi because of our dictator. But when I was an adolescent and the dictator was gone eventually, we went back to Malawi.
29:04 Speaker 03 So you've got family there still?
29:05 Speaker 04 I've got family there now.
29:06 Speaker 01 Amazing.
29:07 Speaker 03 Right.
29:07 Speaker 04 My parents are there and my one brother.
29:09 Speaker 01 Delisa, you may not know, one of the things I do on this podcast is I find any link I can to the First or Second World Wars, no matter what we're talking about.
29:16 Speaker 04 Okay, so there was some Malawi soldiers sent?
29:19 Speaker 01 Well, first naval engagement of the First World War, guys. Yeah. Lake Malawi.
29:25 Speaker 04 No.
29:25 Speaker 01 Really? Why?
29:26 Speaker 04 Wow.
29:27 Speaker 01 So exciting. There were at the time roughly two Western boats on Lake Malawi. Unfortunately, one was English and one was German. Right? So this was, it was a colonial time, so there were, and the borders of Lake Malawi, it's a few different countries around it. So, so basically, a British steamer named HMS Gwendolen, which was named after the daughter of the Marquess of Salisbury. Lovely name for a ship. Very nice. It had one gun on it, I think, and there was a German steamer, which the captains were friends, they were drinking buddies. But the English found out the war was happening slightly before the Germans, so the English just sailed up, opened fire, one shot.
30:08 Speaker 01 The German captain yells, Rhodes, are you drunk? At his friend who's just opened fire on him. One-shot battle, Rhodes then just confiscates the gun, Rhodes, the English captain, confiscates the German gun. And no more is said about it. And that was the first naval battle of the First World War. Wow. I know.
30:23 Speaker 03 No more was said about it, you've shot.
30:26 Speaker 04 This is the first time anyone else is hearing about it on this podcast.
30:30 Speaker 03 That's like finding out if you were just sitting in a cafe with your friend and he happened to be German and you read the news before, but you just punched him in the head.
30:39 Speaker 01 Battle over.
30:42 Speaker 05 That's amazing.
30:44 Speaker 03 So what's the, the name that keeps coming up as names of towns and so on in Malawi is David Livingstone.
30:51 Speaker 04 Yes.
30:52 Speaker 03 Who obviously.
30:52 Speaker 04 He was the missionary.
30:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it sounds like a lot of place names that were colonially named have been changed, but the Livingstone ones seem to remain.
31:01 Speaker 04 Well, it's because Livingstone is remembered positively.
31:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, right.
31:05 Speaker 04 So he came, he brought bibles and stuff.
31:07 Speaker 01 How did, how did he bring them in?
31:12 Speaker 04 But honestly, the, the tales of him is education and medicine. So he, there was not a hurry to rename his stuff, but like the road stuff where it's associated with, you know, us being oppressed and being, that's all been renamed. So a lot of the Livingstone names.
31:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, because there's.
31:32 Speaker 04 Because he's fondly remembered.
31:33 Speaker 03 Blantyre, which is known as the New York of Malawi. That's where Livingstone was born in Scotland.
31:39 Speaker 04 And there's a Blantyre in Scotland.
31:40 Speaker 03 Yes, exactly.
31:41 Speaker 01 Are they twinned or?
31:42 Speaker 03 They're not really. I mean, on their Wikipedia, which is where I had a brief look, it said that it's twinned with many places, but not with that town.
31:50 Speaker 01 How interesting.
31:50 Speaker 03 But there is a statue in Blantyre in Scotland of Livingstone fending off a lion attack, and it's designed by Ray Harryhausen.
32:01 Speaker 05 No.
32:01 Speaker 04 The monster, the monster guy.
32:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
32:03 Speaker 04 Wow.
32:04 Speaker 01 So we should say, he designed the special effects for all the amazing old films like, what was it?
32:10 Speaker 05 Jason and the Argon.
32:11 Speaker 01 Jason and the Argon, The Titans. Yeah, those were fantastic.
32:15 Speaker 03 So apparently he was married to a descendant of Livingstone.
32:18 Speaker 05 Wow.
32:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, and so he did the statue.
32:20 Speaker 05 That's amazing.
32:21 Speaker 03 There's also Livingstonia in Malawi. There's, he's got quite a few places that are named after him.
32:26 Speaker 05 Speaking of old sci-fi films, I was reading about someone called The Terminator, who is responsible for the annulment of 3,500 marriages in Malawi.
32:39 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
32:40 Speaker 05 So this apparently is someone called Theresa Catchen de Ma.
32:43 Speaker 04 This is the child, child marriage.
32:44 Speaker 05 Yeah.
32:45 Speaker 04 No, no, she's actually absolutely amazing.
32:47 Speaker 01 Isn't that amazing story?
32:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so, so essentially there's a, a practice of marrying very underage people. And so she campaigned against it her whole life and annulled them and rescued these women. It was amazing.
32:59 Speaker 05 And then educated people in the area about what to do in future and stuff like that. But yeah, known as The Terminator because she terminated so many of these marriages.
33:07 Speaker 01 That's great.
33:08 Speaker 04 And whenever she terminated a marriage, she'd be like, I'll be back.
33:18 Speaker 03 Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that the first ever British spacesuit designed included a cape and a walking stick.
33:29 Speaker 01 A cape?
33:30 Speaker 03 Yes.
33:31 Speaker 04 Wow, this was for floating in space?
33:33 Speaker 03 This, yes, how else are you gonna fly?
33:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's fantastic.
33:38 Speaker 03 It's an extraordinary design that was showcased initially in the 40s in 1949. There's a replica that you can go and visit. I've got a picture here. Deliso, do you want to sort of describe for the listener what it looks like?
33:52 Speaker 04 It looks like a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica. It's absolutely glorious.
33:58 Speaker 01 And for younger listeners, perhaps?
34:00 Speaker 03 I think it looks like Space Shredder from Ninja Turtles.
34:03 Speaker 04 Space Shredder.
34:04 Speaker 01 But for listeners even younger than that, maybe?
34:06 Speaker 04 Okay, the helmet looks like a knight's helmet. And then the actual baggy suit, it's a cross between a spacesuit and a washing machine.
34:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, yes.
34:18 Speaker 01 And there's a glorious silver cape over the shoulder. It's like, it's a sort of steampunky.
34:24 Speaker 04 But also the walking stick is very short.
34:27 Speaker 03 Yes, but because it's a practical walking stick. Now, here's the extraordinary thing. If you saw a picture of this, you would think, my God, this looks so ridiculous. What were they doing? Everything that was designed for this suit was incredibly practical. So to give the background of it very quickly, this was designed by a group called the British Interplanetary Society, the BIS. It was founded in 1933 by Philip Cleeter in Liverpool, and it is still to this day the oldest existing organisation devoted to the promotion of spaceflight. So there's been older ones, but they're no longer around. So this is the longest lasting.
35:00 Speaker 01 But it's an amazing sounding, the British Interplanetary Society. It sounds insane because we're not used to Britain being a major part of the space race, as indeed it turns out we weren't. We may yet, we may yet. But this spacesuit was really fabulous. So the suit has an airlock inside the chest, so you can. Can pick up a moon rock or whatever it might be, pop it into the airlock. Then inside your suit, kind of take an arm out of the space suit, reach in and open the airlock once it's pressurized correctly. So then you've got it in, for whatever reason, inside your suit. It's just such a cool idea.
35:34 Speaker 05 It sounds a bit awkward.
35:36 Speaker 01 It was a bit awkward, probably. That, that did not make it to the space suit design. But I think some of these elements were useful and they were established way before most other space exploration outfits. You know, they were thinking about how we do this in a practical way.
35:49 Speaker 03 Well, that's what's so exciting about this. Every single part of this suit dealt with what was the hypothetical situation of what you would have on the moon.
35:57 Speaker 05 On the moon.
35:58 Speaker 03 Yeah. So it was designed by two guys, Harry Ross and Ralph Smith. And for example, the moon has very different temperatures when it's dark and when it's light. So either you design a day and night suit that you can change into.
36:11 Speaker 05 Oh, lovely.
36:11 Speaker 03 Which is so British.
36:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, you need something for cocktail hour as well.
36:14 Speaker 03 Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But what this suit is, what they went for is the all in one. So the cape is not some, you know, silly British superhero. Yeah. What that was is, is to help with the temperature regulation.
36:28 Speaker 04 I actually think England just needs this to start being reissued because on any particular day, we have all the weather.
36:37 Speaker 04 It needs to make a comeback.
36:38 Speaker 05 That's a great idea.
36:40 Speaker 03 Yes. Yeah, exactly. So Delisa, you'll see here, there's this sort of aerial that's up here. That's for radio.
36:46 Speaker 04 For radio.
36:47 Speaker 03 So that's how you could radio back to the ship when you're on the moon.
36:50 Speaker 01 Stunning.
36:50 Speaker 03 It's got like a 1.5 kilometer, I think, distance.
36:53 Speaker 04 It's brilliant.
36:54 Speaker 01 They were solving all sorts of, they designed, so they designed a lunar spaceship as well in 1938. And they proposed a crew of three, a multi-stage rocket, like lots of things that ended up happening in 1969.
37:05 Speaker 05 I think it's like a big what if, isn't it? Of like, basically what happened is they were gonna start doing experiments of rockets, but there was a thing called the Explosives Act of 1875 that meant that private individuals were not allowed to test rocket fuel. And because that was in, they weren't allowed to do their experiments. But if the government had said, okay, you can do it, there's every reason. To suggest that we could have gotten into space before anyone.
37:31 Speaker 04 Well, I mean, at least they had practical plans. Zambia, which is a country next to Malawi. They had a misguided attempt to join the space race. Very bonkers guy. I'd have to find his name, but he started training astronauts by putting them in barrels and rolling them. To get them used to being weightless. And it was a really hilarious event where he believed that Zambia could beat America and Russia with this.
38:02 Speaker 03 So we're talking 50s, 60s that this would have happened. Wow. Yeah. And I should just quickly explain that the, um, the walking stick. Yeah. When I said it was practical is because, um, if you were walking up mountainous bits of the moon.
38:16 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:16 Speaker 03 If you were needing to sit down, the suit's not very practical for it. So that is one of those.
38:21 Speaker 05 Oh, shooting stick.
38:22 Speaker 03 A sort of, yeah, a little seat.
38:24 Speaker 05 Uh, Arthur C. Clarke was a member of this society.
38:27 Speaker 03 Yes.
38:28 Speaker 05 You know why we have capes in comic books like superheroes?
38:31 Speaker 03 Oh.
38:32 Speaker 05 Cause you don't need a cape to fly, do you? It's like, doesn't make sense at all. Like you need wings.
38:36 Speaker 03 Yes.
38:37 Speaker 05 Uh, basically the reason is a comic book is just a drawing and you need to show movements of someone flying through the air. And what's the best way of doing that? Having something flapping?
38:46 Speaker 04 That flaps. That makes sense.
38:47 Speaker 03 Brilliant.
38:48 Speaker 04 Exactly. It's great.
38:49 Speaker 05 Um, the first real space suits like that were actually used were the Soviet ones, I think. So, um, CH1 or CH1 or CHEDIAN, I suppose it would be. So this was used in the 1930s and it was because they were going to very, very high altitude. So they weren't going into space per se, but they were getting balloons really, really high. Uh, and this suit made by a guy called Chertovsky. It had no hinges in the elbows or the knees. And it was basically just, it was almost a barrel, really. It was a barrel with a helmet on and you would just sort of open a door and walk inside it. And you wouldn't be able to really move or do anything.
39:28 Speaker 03 Stole the idea from Zambia.
39:31 Speaker 05 And then the first actual spacesuit, so the ones that the Soviets used in space, so what Gagarin might have used, for instance, actually, this was a bit before him because it was a design. It was known as the scaffander kosmicheski, which meant a diving suit for space. And again, you would just, it was mostly to protect the space person. It wasn't really that useful for doing stuff. But one of the groups of people who were really against the spacesuit were the people who designed the spacecraft, because they said that our spacecraft is so good that actually you don't need a spacesuit. Gagarin will be absolutely fine.
40:05 Speaker 01 Risky, isn't it?
40:06 Speaker 04 And for anybody who wants to find out more about what I mentioned, it was 1964, Edward Makukun Kolosa was the one who formed the Zambian space programme and would train astronauts by rolling them.
40:19 Speaker 05 Wow, okay. Gosh. Was it the Faroe Islands had a space, I think it might still have a space agency, but they expressly say, we are not trying to get into space. We're gonna maybe like try and like talk to some satellites, or we're gonna, like, they expressly say, we are not trying to get to the moon, we're not trying to get to Mars, but it's useful to have this funding because you never know what technology is going to come from it and stuff like that.
40:44 Speaker 01 Well, that makes sense. The Smithsonian, you know, the Washington based, well, they're all over America. They've got a lot of incredible collections.
40:52 Speaker 05 They've got a big space museum there, haven't they?
40:53 Speaker 01 True Space Museum. And in Maryland, they have a facility which contains a spacesuit morgue.
40:58 Speaker 04 Hmm.
40:59 Speaker 01 There are a hundred.
41:00 Speaker 04 Failed failed designs.
41:02 Speaker 01 Successful ones, actually.
41:03 Speaker 04 All successful ones.
41:03 Speaker 01 So these, but just the spacesuits are not being used anymore.
41:06 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:06 Speaker 01 And they have, I read a write-up of it, which sounds so creepy. It's got 150 spacesuits in there. They're all lying on bunks, face up. They all contain soft dummies. And so, and I read about.
41:21 Speaker 04 This should be the setting of some horror. It's fantastic.
41:25 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And there's a woman who looks after them, or she did certainly 10 years ago. She was called Amanda Young and says she plays mummy to them. And she says, you know, there's Neil and there's John.
41:34 Speaker 05 Like, last week, we had Nina Conti on the show. I don't know if you know Nina.
41:39 Speaker 04 Yes, I know.
41:39 Speaker 05 But she. Told us about, or actually Dan told us, but she knew about this place where they had all their old ventriloquist dummies. Yeah. Like where someone has died.
41:49 Speaker 04 That's more creepy.
41:49 Speaker 05 Yeah, but I think there's definitely something where you go and visit all these different really, really creepy places. Yeah.
41:57 Speaker 01 Yes, you're right.
41:57 Speaker 04 They should. We're pitching it right now.
42:01 Speaker 05 Deliso Chapanda's creepy ass places.
42:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:06 Speaker 04 Sounds good.
42:06 Speaker 01 Sounds good.
42:07 Speaker 05 Okay, good. Twenty percent.
42:09 Speaker 01 There are still developments happening in space world.
42:12 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah.
42:12 Speaker 01 So, right now, something is being worked on, which is very sci-fi based. It's, um, it's to solve the problem that, at the moment, if you do a spacewalk, you wear what's called a maximum absorbency garment, which is fancy word saying a nappy. It can take two litres of urine, which is a lot, but.
42:32 Speaker 05 How much salt's in it, Sin? Could it take?
42:35 Speaker 01 Take twelve copies of the Gulag Archipelago, yeah. But it's really uncomfortable to wear one of those, especially if you're out there all day, working on something on the outside of a space ship, you know. So, and it can give you a rash, it can leak. Astronauts say that at a certain point, they can no longer tell if it's urine or sweat in their suit.
42:53 Speaker 05 Wow, okay.
42:53 Speaker 01 It's really.
42:54 Speaker 04 It's really unpleasant, yes.
42:55 Speaker 01 It's so uncomfortable being out there. It's incredibly harsh environment.
42:58 Speaker 05 Not as glamorous as you think, is it?
42:59 Speaker 01 It's not as glamorous as you think. And you wee loads in space because.
43:03 Speaker 05 Do you?
43:03 Speaker 01 Well, the gravity difference means that the fluid moves differently in your body, and it's physically very demanding and you're sweating. And we, it's, oh, it's awful. Okay. Wait, though, they're working on a suit now, which is going to be drinkable water from urine in practically real time.
43:20 Speaker 05 Oh, okay. I would argue still not that glamorous.
43:24 Speaker 04 Your brain has to go around that hurdle.
43:27 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, it does. But this is basically like they have in Dune. You know, in Dune, they have a still suit and you, and it keeps, oh, sorry, good point. They wear, it's like in Battlestar Galactica. No, okay, is, it's.
43:38 Speaker 04 That idea is, um, if you make a suit which takes every bit of water from your sweat, urine, everything, and instantly turns into something that you drink.
43:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:50 Speaker 04 So you can walk and be in the desert for a very long time or in space.
43:53 Speaker 01 Exactly. And this is, they've now got it so that half a litre of urine can become water in as little as five minutes.
43:59 Speaker 05 Do they add some, I would put a little bit of cordial in there at least.
44:02 Speaker 01 I think like, just to take the edge off.
44:05 Speaker 04 And then you're like, that's why it's yellow.
44:11 Speaker 01 I'm excited.
44:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, that sounds so good. Well, that was one of the, just to bring it back to this original suit again. It did everything. It had extra mittens that you would put on. They thought of everything. The one thing they did not think of was to add anything that dealt with feces or urine. And so there was absolutely nothing as part of the design.
44:31 Speaker 05 I think in Britain, we don't need to worry about those kind of things.
44:36 Speaker 01 Yes, the dune novels are very silent on what happens to the feces in your still suit.
44:40 Speaker 04 Are they?
44:41 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, I'm sure someone will email [email protected] to correct me.
44:44 Speaker 04 No one needs that chapter. No one was reading and was like, that's what's missing.
44:48 Speaker 05 I just amaze they did any editing at all when I look at those books. The other thing about spacesuits is they often don't fit, right? Because they have to make them and they don't necessarily, or certainly in the olden days, they didn't make them for each person. Because you didn't know who was going to do the trip. So, you know, Neil Armstrong's spacesuit was made for someone Neil Armstrong-ish.
45:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, this is why Vin Diesel never became a successful astronaut.
45:15 Speaker 05 Sure.
45:15 Speaker 04 He wanted to be one.
45:16 Speaker 01 Did he?
45:17 Speaker 04 Oh, no, I'm just saying. Oh, this is a joke. I thought this was like a little thing we didn't know.
45:21 Speaker 05 Is he particularly differently shaped?
45:24 Speaker 01 He must be quite muscly, mustn't he?
45:25 Speaker 05 Is he?
45:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm thinking of The Rock. I meant to say The Rock.
45:28 Speaker 04 The Rock, The Rock, it would work.
45:29 Speaker 03 Vin Diesel's big as well. No, I'll jump in. He's a muscular type.
45:33 Speaker 01 He's no The Rock though, is he?
45:34 Speaker 04 No, you were thinking of the space rock.
45:40 Speaker 05 But this is really interesting, a thing called the jaggedness principle. And basically, if you take like, okay, I gotta work out how big my head is, right? Okay, it's this many inches and my nose is this long and my shoulders are this big. And my little finger's this big and my big toe's this big. When you put all those different things together, no one is average.
46:01 Speaker 04 Oh, because everyone's unique. Okay, I've got you.
46:04 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly. And so they did a thing in the 1940s where they were looking at the cockpits of pilots. And they took 10 body measurements from a population of 4,000 pilots and found that Zero of them were in the average range for absolutely everything.
46:21 Speaker 01 Interesting.
46:21 Speaker 05 And so some of them would have been like, oh, this, this seat's a little bit tight on my bum. And then some of them were like, oh, this cockpit's a little bit low. I can't really fit my thing in.
46:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:30 Speaker 05 Uh, and that's something you have to deal with all the time.
46:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:33 Speaker 03 That's interesting.
46:34 Speaker 01 Roald Dahl writes about being a pilot of very elderly, maybe biplanes. I think it was a Gloucester Gladiator he was flying and he was six foot four.
46:43 Speaker 05 Wow.
46:43 Speaker 01 And you were meant to be about five foot 10 to fly these things. And he just had, he was just like an accordion folded up in the cockpit. He just writes about being so uncomfortable in there.
46:51 Speaker 03 Yeah. Cause what do you, what do we, you say about you, Andy? You've got a, is it a long torso or a?
46:56 Speaker 01 No, I keep my height in my legs.
46:58 Speaker 03 You keep your height in your legs.
46:59 Speaker 05 Height in your legs.
46:59 Speaker 01 I tell, I tell these guys every week to Lisa and they never listen. They never remember.
47:02 Speaker 05 This is what you have in common with The Rock. He's too muscly for planes and you keep the height, where do you keep that?
47:10 Speaker 01 I keep my height in my legs.
47:11 Speaker 05 In your legs, sorry.
47:12 Speaker 01 For some reason, he's not written back about my double act buddy comedy idea yet.
47:16 Speaker 05 Muscly and legs.
47:17 Speaker 01 One guy's really strong, one guy's got big legs. Not big legs, just long legs really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a crime fighting team we would make.
47:27 Speaker 01 Dwayne, if you are listening, please do get in touch.
47:29 Speaker 05 I need to lift up this car from this baby on the floor. Oh, well, I need to step over that gate.
47:40 Speaker 00 Stop the podcast.
47:41 Speaker 01 Stop the podcast.
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48:22 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
48:37 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
48:48 Speaker 06 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
48:53 Speaker 04 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.
48:59 Speaker 06 So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
49:21 Speaker 01 Okay, it is time for our final fact of the show, and that is James.
49:24 Speaker 05 Okay, my fact this week is that the last Queen album, released while Freddie Mercury was alive, was named after his favorite words to play at Scrabble.
49:33 Speaker 01 Amazing.
49:34 Speaker 04 Fantastic.
49:35 Speaker 05 Bohemian Rhapsody, no. That wasn't an album, was it, probably? So I was looking for Scrabble facts because, Deliso, I read an interview where you say that you rarely lose at Scrabble.
49:47 Speaker 04 I'm very good at Scrabble. I'm a Scrabble maniac. I always play Scrabble. And even I was mentioning earlier that like when I did Britain's Got Talent, they were like, oh, you're African. We should have a big African background for you, you know what I mean? Like, and we'll design like, I was like, no, no, no, that's nothing to do with my personality. Scrabble! So I literally have a Scrabble board with my name on it as my background, because that's, I'm such a Scrabble.
50:14 Speaker 05 And also, in Scrabble, there's only one letter X, so you can't get the three X's.
50:19 Speaker 04 Very smart.
50:21 Speaker 05 Thank you. So rarely said on this podcast, Deliso, thank you.
50:25 Speaker 01 Britain's Got Talent, yeah.
50:26 Speaker 05 So I was looking for Scrabble facts, and I found that Queen liked to play it when, or liked to play it when. They were on tour and also the games used to get quite heated.
50:35 Speaker 04 They're not, not quite as rock and roll as you imagined, you know what I mean?
50:38 Speaker 05 No.
50:39 Speaker 04 Backstage activity, playing Scrabble, even heated is very like.
50:44 Speaker 01 But you've got to do something after the cocaine wears off and after the, the orgy has wound down, you know? Got to bide the time.
50:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
50:53 Speaker 05 It's true. Yeah. Once the orgies have wound down. Um, so I was reading a biography of Freddie Mercury called A Kind of Magic by Mark Blake. Uh, and in that he said that innuendo was one of Freddie's favorite words to use, presumably because it has lots of vowels in it.
51:08 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:09 Speaker 05 Uh, and that was what gave him the name.
51:10 Speaker 04 I can't imagine it comes up a lot.
51:12 Speaker 05 Innuendo.
51:13 Speaker 01 As it were.
51:14 Speaker 05 Well, you know what? Actually, Billy, so before we came on air, we were talking about our different Scrabble techniques. But you said that you have a special rule for your Scrabble.
51:22 Speaker 04 Oh, yes. Uh, when I play with, uh, my close friends, if you put in a dirty word,
51:29 Speaker 04 any sexual word or any word that could be used in a dirty context, you get double points.
51:33 Speaker 05 Right.
51:34 Speaker 03 Amazing. Okay.
51:35 Speaker 05 And so, but how do you, do you have a dictionary of dirty words?
51:38 Speaker 04 No, no, no. You just have to explain to the other person that it's dirty because most of them are bots and stuff like that. But if you put in a word which is debatable, whether it's dirty, you have to use it in a sentence to explain why it's actually.
51:51 Speaker 05 Very good.
51:52 Speaker 03 Do you guys know, um, as your Scrabble heads, what you would get numbers wise, points wise with innuendo? If you didn't land on any triples or just those points?
52:00 Speaker 01 So.
52:01 Speaker 03 I feel like it'd be quite low scoring because the vowels are like.
52:03 Speaker 05 I think the D must be worth two, is it?
52:05 Speaker 03 It is indeed.
52:06 Speaker 05 So it'd be one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine?
52:08 Speaker 03 Nine is correct. Now, innuendo isn't the only Scrabble word that is a Queen album that you can use.
52:14 Speaker 05 Oh.
52:15 Speaker 03 Because there's two other Queen albums. There's Queen, their self-titled first album.
52:19 Speaker 04 That would be a lot of points.
52:20 Speaker 03 That is a lot of points.
52:22 Speaker 05 Fourteen?
52:22 Speaker 04 Fifteen?
52:23 Speaker 05 Fifteen?
52:23 Speaker 03 Fourteen. But you're, you're, the one that's going to get you most is their album Jazz.
52:28 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:29 Speaker 04 Very nice.
52:29 Speaker 05 But you'd have to use a blank for that because there's only one Z, right?
52:32 Speaker 01 Is there?
52:33 Speaker 05 So, but J is eight, is it?
52:36 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, that'd be nineteen, what, nineteen?
52:38 Speaker 05 Yeah.
52:38 Speaker 01 Pretty good.
52:39 Speaker 03 And it would be twenty-nine if you, but you can't, as you say, use a second one. Now, interestingly as well.
52:43 Speaker 05 Also, actually, jazz mags have sexy people in them, so it's double points.
52:49 Speaker 04 Double points?
52:50 Speaker 01 Hmm.
52:51 Speaker 04 I don't know if that would work. Jizz would work.
52:56 Speaker 04 But jazz, it would have been double.
52:58 Speaker 03 Yeah, okay.
52:59 Speaker 04 Very big.
53:00 Speaker 03 Here's another thing. Here's another thing for a band that loves Scrabble. Now, if the four of us were playing Scrabble right now, not a single one of us has a name that is a Scrabble word. However, three of the four Queen members were Scrabble words.
53:13 Speaker 01 Were they?
53:14 Speaker 03 Freddie Mercury.
53:15 Speaker 01 Mercury.
53:17 Speaker 03 Mercury's a word. You've got Brian May.
53:19 Speaker 01 May.
53:20 Speaker 03 May works. And then the bass player, Deacon.
53:22 Speaker 04 Oh, yes.
53:23 Speaker 03 A Deacon.
53:23 Speaker 04 A Deacon in church.
53:24 Speaker 03 In church, yeah.
53:25 Speaker 05 Dan is a word, D A N. It's a belt in martial arts.
53:30 Speaker 03 Oh.
53:30 Speaker 04 Is that a English word or a Japanese word?
53:33 Speaker 05 I think it's in our dictionary.
53:34 Speaker 04 Okay.
53:34 Speaker 05 And that's the other thing about Scrabble is actually, in the official rules, it says, before you start, you have to decide what dictionary you're using.
53:42 Speaker 04 Yes.
53:43 Speaker 05 So you can use any dictionary you want. If you want, you could use Green's Dictionary of Slang and just have rude words.
53:48 Speaker 03 Yes, yes. Yeah, Mike Schreiber would be in a German game of Scrabble would be applicable.
53:53 Speaker 01 Hunter in a British context.
53:56 Speaker 03 If we used your middle name. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So anyway, Mercury is 14, you've got Deacon at nine, and then you've got May at eight. And then unfortunately, Taylor, who is Roger Taylor, doesn't apply because it's not spelt. It's spelt with a Y instead of an I. Unless you accept place names, in which case there is an American town called Taylor, and then that could apply. But again, it depends on your rules.
54:18 Speaker 01 There is a, there is an extra Queen album that you haven't mentioned, Dan.
54:21 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
54:22 Speaker 01 Freddie Mercury's stamp album, which was another of his hobbies.
54:26 Speaker 05 Oh, he collected stamps?
54:27 Speaker 01 He collected stamps. It was bought by the British Postal Museum in 1993. Yeah, he was a big stamp collector, as was John Lennon. I mean.
54:34 Speaker 05 Wait a minute, isn't there a fact about them being on a stamp?
54:38 Speaker 03 Yes, there is.
54:38 Speaker 05 Brian May was the only living person.
54:41 Speaker 03 It's Roger Taylor, the drummer, is the only living person to appear on a stamp because you have to be dead in order to be on a stamp. So Freddie is in the front of it and there's.
54:50 Speaker 04 No, no, no, but when the Queen was alive, wasn't he on a stamp?
54:53 Speaker 05 Sorry, other than a royal.
54:54 Speaker 04 Or other than a royal.
54:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, sorry, yeah.
54:56 Speaker 04 Sorry, I've been pedantic, but yes, I see.
54:57 Speaker 03 So in a very vague, misty way, you can see Roger Taylor in the back, and so he's the only living person.
55:04 Speaker 01 They've loosened it a bit, haven't they? They do special.
55:05 Speaker 03 Oh, probably now, yeah.
55:08 Speaker 05 Nothing's like it used to be.
55:09 Speaker 01 Hmm.
55:11 Speaker 05 I read an interview with Martin Iman, who was the first British player to ever win the World Scrabble Championships. He was speaking to The Observer. And he said that every, every week he hears about some other celebrity who plays Scrabble. So Robbie Williams, Sting, Christina Aguilera, Avril Lavigne. And Martin Iman said there should be a celebrity Scrabble. So I'm thinking the Liso Chapanda's celebrity Scrabble.
55:35 Speaker 04 I'm in, I'm in. But I'd want to play. I'll tell you, this is the problem is you get invited on all these shows and you think you're there to play and they just want you to do silly stuff. And I'm like, I want to play. I was invited on the countdown and I was ready. I've spent the whole week training myself and getting better. Like, no, no, no, we just want you on library corner. And I was like, no, let me play.
55:55 Speaker 03 That's a shame.
55:57 Speaker 01 Nerdy rock stars?
55:58 Speaker 05 All right, yeah.
56:00 Speaker 01 Once you get very famous, let's say if you're a rock star.
56:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
56:03 Speaker 01 You have a lot of money. You often have a lot of space. You have a lot of time because you're on, you do on stage at eight.
56:08 Speaker 05 And also, because you've spent your childhood in your bedroom on your own, learning how to play guitar, you're often quite nerdy, I think. Like, quite a lot of the musicians that I know, for instance, are kind of on the nerdy side.
56:20 Speaker 01 Absolutely. Well, Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden, who you're familiar with, James? You know, fences.
56:27 Speaker 05 I know he does.
56:28 Speaker 01 Was once ranked, and that's fences in the terms of-
56:30 Speaker 04 Fencing isn't necessarily nerdy. It's a weapon.
56:33 Speaker 05 No, and also Bruce likes to fence with a lightsaber.
56:36 Speaker 01 Okay, that's nerdy. That is really, and you're gonna get hurt.
56:41 Speaker 04 Not in the nerdy.
56:42 Speaker 01 It's not real.
56:43 Speaker 04 But when it was an epa, that's not.
56:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:46 Speaker 05 So there's four official swords that you can use in modern fencing. And it's the epa, the saber.
56:52 Speaker 01 Foil.
56:53 Speaker 05 The foil and the lightsaber.
56:54 Speaker 04 The lightsaber is now official?
56:56 Speaker 05 It's official, yeah. And Bruce got one of the-
56:57 Speaker 04 I need to start watching this.
56:59 Speaker 05 Bruce got one of the first, like, official lightsabers that you use in competition.
57:04 Speaker 04 I watched, this is a total aside, but I watched combat juggling. If you ever have a chance to see this. It's two jugglers facing off. They have to constantly juggle, but they can knock each other's butts out with another baton.
57:17 Speaker 05 That's very clever.
57:18 Speaker 04 And they can distract. It was amazing. And it's a whole big sport. It was in like, it was like in a high school arena kind of thing. And I was just like, this sport, you didn't even know existed.
57:28 Speaker 01 Okay, what am I talking about here? Rod Stewart's is enormous. Neil Young has a special name for his. Pete Waterman has displayed his in Chester Cathedral.
57:38 Speaker 05 His organ.
57:43 Speaker 01 And Jules Holland stretches from London to Berlin.
57:45 Speaker 03 Does it?
57:46 Speaker 01 Yes.
57:48 Speaker 03 I think I know because very famously.
57:50 Speaker 05 Yeah, they have enormous penises, Holland.
57:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
57:53 Speaker 05 I know the first one, I got it as well.
57:55 Speaker 03 Yeah. Model railway.
57:58 Speaker 04 Oh, model railway.
57:59 Speaker 03 Yes.
58:00 Speaker 04 Wait, but how can you have a model railway which stretches from one place to another?
58:03 Speaker 01 Well, the model is a model of the journey from London to Berlin.
58:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:07 Speaker 01 But Pete Waterman, who's the producer behind Kylie Minogue and Rick Astley.
58:10 Speaker 05 Steps.
58:10 Speaker 01 Steps, yeah, the biggies. Recently built a 20 metre model railway for Chester Cathedral. I just found it so he spends hours making fake trees. He has a massive model of Leamington Railway Station, which is where he trainspotted as a boy. I just think it's so charming.
58:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:26 Speaker 01 I love it.
58:26 Speaker 03 Speaking of Pete Waterman, you just mentioned, do you know who is an absolute Scrabble fiend? Kylie Minogue.
58:33 Speaker 01 Really?
58:34 Speaker 03 Yes. And this is according to Salman Rushdie.
58:38 Speaker 04 I would love to see this game.
58:39 Speaker 05 That's actually on page 16.
58:43 Speaker 05 On page 16 of Satanic Verses, he goes into a game of Scrabble with Kylie.
58:47 Speaker 04 Fantastic.
58:48 Speaker 03 Apparently he plays Scrabble with her, or certainly did for a while. He tweeted about it. She wrote rematch as a reply to his tweet. He used to, he used to hang with her, apparently. There were rumours that, that Salman Rushdie used to play Twister with Kylie and Danny Minogue. But he said, I never played it, I would just watch as they played.
59:08 Speaker 05 He said, I should be so lucky.
59:12 Speaker 05 That is amazing. Good grief.
59:13 Speaker 03 Yeah. Sorry, what? So Kylie's obsessed with Scrabble. She plays Scrabble a lot.
59:18 Speaker 05 No, we were thinking of the other thing.
59:19 Speaker 03 Right.
59:20 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:21 Speaker 03 Twister.
59:22 Speaker 01 I suppose you've got a while away the long hours in hiding, haven't you?
59:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think it was in that period as well. During the fatwa? I believe it was. I haven't.
59:29 Speaker 05 What a way to assassinate Salman Rushdie, that would have been.
59:32 Speaker 04 Also, that's what he should have told them, the people who had the fatwa on him. This is what I'm doing right now.
59:37 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:39 Speaker 04 No!
59:40 Speaker 01 But like, we've got to work out where Salman Rushdie is because we want to assassinate him for the Satanic Verses. What's the least possible likely thing imaginable he could be doing?
59:51 Speaker 05 Well, he could be playing Twister with Kylie and Danny Minogue.
59:55 Speaker 03 No, no, no.
59:56 Speaker 05 It's not reasonable.
1:00:01 Speaker 03 Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this podcast, we can all be found online. I'm on @shriverland on Instagram. James?
1:00:13 Speaker 05 My Instagram is nosuchthingasjamesharkin.
1:00:15 Speaker 03 Andy?
1:00:15 Speaker 01 At Andrew100m.
1:00:16 Speaker 03 Yep. Deliso, are you online?
1:00:18 Speaker 04 Yes, I'm on everything. I'm africancomedian.com and delisotipanda on everything else.
1:00:24 Speaker 03 And you're on tour right now.
1:00:25 Speaker 04 I'm on tour. I'm doing a show called Topical Storm. The show changes every week because it's updated with the headline.
1:00:31 Speaker 03 Fantastic. And so, yeah, so go to your website, go to your Instagram and so on. They'll be able to find the dates. Where are you? It's all across the UK. So go check it out now. You can also write in to us as a group, podcast at qi.com. Send us all of your favorite facts that you've discovered because we will cherry pick the best of those and bring them to our Monday show, Little Fish, where we get to read them all out. Or if you send us just general feedback about the show, interesting experiences you've had and so on, those will be taken to our behind the scenes show. Drop us a line, which is part of Club Fish. Club Fish is a Patreon place where you can do multiple different tiers. There are lots of different rewards. We have a quiz coming up for the highest tier,
1:01:13 Speaker 03 Friend of the Podcast, April 14th. So join if you want to be part of that. And just check it out generally. Otherwise, just come back here next week because we are going to be back with another episode. Thank you as ever to our team, Liang Li and Ethan Ruparelia, as well as the bigger Fishbuster crew. And we'll see you again next week. Goodbye.
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