Heather Monahan: Fire the Villains in Your Life and Build Unshakable Confidence

Fired at 43 with an 18-month non-compete, Heather Monahan had to rebuild her career from scratch — and it led her to her real purpose. In this episode, she and Kwame break down why confidence is a learnable skill, why "done" beats "perfect," and why firing the "energy vampires" in your life can change everything. You'll learn: Why arrogance is actually rooted in insecurity How to turn goals into deadlines that stick A simple therapy trick for silencing your inner critic Connect with Heather www.heathermonahan.com Heather Monahan's books Connect with Kwame: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Request A Customized Workshop For Your Company⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Kwame Christian on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠negotiateanything.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Click here to buy your copy of Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @kwamenegotiates across all social platforms

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I've learned through doing things incorrectly by having the wrong people around me, whether it be at work, social situations, it doesn't matter where it is. There is something that changes drastically in your life when you decide to fire the villains in your life. And again, I'm not saying that they're evil people, but they're just not your people. They're not your champions. They're not pouring into you. They're taking from you, you know, like those energy vampires out there. And when you decide to cut that forward and rid your life, your business and in your sphere of who you interface with, it's a seismic shift and really powerful shift that I've seen personally. I've seen it with so many different people that it's one of the most important things is who you choose to spend your time with. Oh, my gosh. Obviously, first and foremost, you know, that inner voice

• 0:45Speaker 00

  that you have inside, that's the most important one. But I think that those people that you spend the majority of your time with can drastically shape how you think, what you go for, what you believe is possible and what you ultimately do.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  If you listen to this show, you're probably one of two people. You're someone who's trying to improve their communication skills and learn how to resolve conflict, or you're a dealmaker who's trying to learn how to get an edge in their next negotiation. So you could either make more or save more. The American Negotiation Institute is built for both. We have keynotes for conferences, workshops for teams and courses for everyone. Because the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Playing it safe is easy. Playing it safe is comfortable. But here's the problem. Playing it safe and playing by rules that were never meant for you will never take you to the next level. If you've got what it takes to hit the ball out of the park, the only thing holding you back is whether you're brave enough to take a big swing. I'm Kwame Christian and this is Big Swings Only. Every week, we're telling you the stories of people who fought their fear, chased the life they actually wanted and became who they had to become to get it. This show is built for people who are meant for more. Because if you really want to get to the next level, you've got to do something big. So the question isn't whether or not you've got what it takes. The question is whether or not you're going to swing.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  You were built for more and this show was built for you. Subscribe now.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  I think a cool place to start is with our hobby of talking our friends out of jobs that they never should be in and convincing them to chase their dreams. And tell us about your experience helping others do that. And then we can talk about what you've done too.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think for me, I grew up corporate. America was really the only path that I knew of, you know, back on 51. And when I was younger, Gary Vee wasn't a thing. Like, there wasn't any advocate for becoming an entrepreneur. I didn't even really, I never thought about it, frankly. So to me, that was the only way to go. However, at 43, I was fired with an 18-month non-compete. So at that point in time, I was thrust into the world of entrepreneurial business because I had to start over as a rookie outside of the industry at Expertise in. And what I learned through that whole experience was I wasn't living my purpose.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Even though I did very well in corporate America and there was a lot of good in it that I liked and, you know, I'm proud of, I really wasn't living my life's work. I am now, but it took this, you know, crazy situation to occur in order for me to find it. So it's kind of been a passion of mine to speak life into people that I know I'm seeing in them something I saw myself, which is that if they're not living up to their calling or living up to their purpose, or, you know, that maybe they're just not really excited about going to work every day. It's kind of like digging into that with people and finding out, you know, what is going on? What would you do in a world if you could do anything?

• 4:02Speaker 00

  You know, what would you do if money wasn't an object or an issue and there were no barriers to entry? Tell me what, how would you spend your time? What work would you do? And figuring that out with people and then speaking that life into them and watching them accomplish it and make those leaps has been incredibly rewarding.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  That's brilliant. And it starts with curiosity and care. You care about the person. You recognize there's a disconnect. You see something more, but you lead with curiosity. And I think that's one of the mistakes that people often make when they're trying to persuade somebody or convince somebody to do something, even if it isn't the person's best interest. Because they push so hard and tell the person what to do. And people like agency. They don't like being told. And sometimes that makes them push back in the opposite direction. But you just ask those questions, they reveal what is inside that you have already seen, but you help them to see it themselves and then they create the path themselves too.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's oftentimes, as you know, it's easier to do with someone you aren't super close to, right? As you were just describing that, I'm thinking, gosh, you know, oftentimes with our kids, I'm thinking my 18-year-old, it's easier to be like, no, do this and do that. You know, it's, you have to almost take a step back. So it's helpful sometimes to not be that close to someone because it's easier to leave from a place of curiosity versus, no, I can, I know, I live with you. Like, I, you know, no, I know, trust me on this. You know, that's a, when it's someone super close to you, it's definitely more emotional.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  That is 100% true. It's funny because when I have folks on the podcast and we talk about negotiation persuasion, a lot of times I'd ask them, how do they, they'll talk about how to manage emotions and they have this masterclass, this beautiful framework. And then I say, so how does that work for you at home? And they're like, oh, I'm terrible at home. Because of the emotionality, you care so much. And sometimes that can, can lead you astray when it comes to how you approach the conversation.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, 100% it can. It was just reminding me of a conversation where I got upset two days ago and I just had no, I wasn't strategic, I wasn't tactical, I wasn't being empathetic. I was just coming from a place of hot emotion, like coming in hot, you know, just not the way that I typically would. It's so much easier to be in charge of your emotion when you do not have that super close bond. So it's a good reminder to manage our emotions in every situation, even the homeward ones.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yes. And I think it's important for folks to hear that too. Because they can look at you, you are essentially the queen of confidence when it comes to operationalizing it in your life, helping other people get there. And then also, I think this is often not shared enough. It's your background in sales. You're incredible when it comes to persuasion, sales, deal making too. But when folks can say, okay, Heather's not perfect, Kwame's not perfect. They still make mistakes in these conversations. I think it gives people permission to try. Because oftentimes people say, okay, if I can't have it perfectly, I'm not going to have it at all. But that's antithetical to the confidence required to actually take the step.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, for me, done will always be better than perfect. I have a great example I like to share with people. My first book, Confidence Creator, did incredibly well. However, there's three mistakes in that book. I self-published that book. So that was the first book I ever wrote. And I will always be happy I self-published that book with three mistakes versus being that person that's on their deathbed saying, I'm dying with a near-perfect book in me, but it never, you know, came to life. It's just so interesting to me that that idea of putting something out in the world is better and can have so much more of an impact versus struggling to make something perfect. I just, I don't believe perfect exists.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  I agree. And I think the belief that perfect exists is what often holds people back from either taking the shot in the first place or taking the shot, doing well enough and then feeling good about what they've accomplished. You know, because they say, well, I can still see flaws. So they, they can't appreciate it. And I think there's a really interesting nexus between this and the concept of confidence. But I think a great place to start with this is exploring the misunderstandings that people have consistently about confidence that holds them back. So when you think about the folks that you've worked with, the companies you've worked with,

• 8:23Speaker 01

  what are some of the consistent misunderstandings that people have about confidence?

• 8:28Speaker 00

  I hear from a lot of people that they don't want to be overconfident or be, you know, appear arrogant. That, that seems to be a big fear for people. However, what I've learned with true confidence is it's the antithesis of arrogance, right? So when someone is very arrogant, it's because they're actually insecure. It's because they have low self-esteem. They're struggling with their confidence. You know, and so people try to overcompensate for that. So explaining that to people and then, you know, allowing them to remember someone they've seen. Because usually someone has an idea in their mind of what they don't want to be. You know, I don't want to be like this person and that person is so obnoxious. Well, really understanding that that person is struggling in their life somehow, some way

• 9:11Speaker 00

  with self-doubt and that's why they're trying to overcorrect. I've done that myself when I was younger, for sure. You know, try to overcompensate for this feeling of, I don't want anyone to see what's really going on. So I'll be incredibly brash, incredibly aggressive. And I'm not saying it doesn't work, right? For many people, people will, you know, buy into what you're selling, but you're never going to feel that sound, strong feeling of power, of confidence and peace with yourself when you are overcompensating for that. And that's really how I see arrogance.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  I agree. It's insecurity is loud. A lot of times they're working really hard to convince you of something that they don't personally believe. And it's, it's really interesting because I see this in different spaces too, where somebody might say, okay, I don't want to overdo it. Then they recognize they're in a place that they don't currently like. But then it's almost like a lie that they tell themselves to stay stuck. Where they say, well, if you start on this journey, then you might overdo it. So don't even start. How, when you're working with people, how do you help them break through that?

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Just getting them to start?

• 10:24Speaker 00

  You know, so often people are trying to operate in a vacuum by themselves alone. They're not sharing their goals. They're not holding themselves accountable. And when you do things as a part of a team or with an accountability partner, you can't escape starting, right? Because you're, you're making a commitment. You're owning something. One of the things that I've done for myself is I reverse engineer. I'll never forget, I was on the Elvis Duran Show and he said to me, Heather, you're writing a book. I wasn't writing a book, but I took that opportunity to reverse engineer the pressure on myself to give myself a deadline, hold myself accountable to start. So I said, I am, and it's going to be out in five months. Right? So like, how, kind of looking at it, how can I flip this around so that I can make this work for me?

• 11:06Speaker 00

  And whether you have millions of people listening to you make that statement or that claim, or one accountability partner, either is going to work, right? You just need someone that's going to be checking in with you that you're making a commitment to. It's a hard commitment. It's a hard date. You know, those that deal in generalities seldom succeed. Those that deal in specifics seldom fail. So really getting into the specifics of what is a start date? What does that look like? What steps do we need to take in order to get there? What potentially could hold us back? And how do we overcome those things? And let's do it as a team. Don't do it in a vacuum on your own.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Heather. Okay. Because this, this is a bit of a pet peeve that I've been seeing so much online. I don't know. Have you seen the people posting and sharing about, hey, if you have a goal, don't tell anybody. Keep it to yourself. Have you seen people say that?

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Well, it's interesting because I've had Sarah Blakely on my show and she talks about how she didn't tell anybody about Spanx for really the first two years. So that is one way of thinking. And I'm not saying, listen, I truly believe this. I don't think life is like a one pill operation for everybody. I share with people what's worked for me and what's worked for my clients and the people I work with. But for Sarah Blakely, so many people she decided would be against her idea that she kept it to herself and really operated in silence that worked for her. Like that ends up, she had this drive and this conviction to move it forward. So she didn't need accountability partners or a team of people. However, what I found for me is I move a heck of a lot faster when I have people asking me about my deadlines,

• 12:38Speaker 00

  when people are checking in. I don't get deflected or deferred by someone saying, oh, I don't know that I love that idea. Because I have so many instances in my life that I can cross reference and say, oh, people told me that about when I pitched myself for a job that didn't exist. People told me that when I launched my podcast, when I wrote my second book. I have countless examples. So that's an easy thing for me to overcome. It really depends on the individual and the person. I do believe either can work, but for me, I truly believe owning a date, giving yourself a deadline and a timeline and having someone on that journey with you makes it a lot easier.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  I agree. I'm, I'm the same way. And you're right, there's no one path to success. And I, I think a lot of times when people end up giving that advice, it is because they often surround themselves, surrounded themselves with the wrong people. You, because when I think about my friends, I want to tell them because I know that they care about me and they are going to encourage me to succeed. And I also know they're going to keep it real with me. So if I come up with some bogus excuse, they will say, that doesn't matter. Still keep on pushing. So I think it's a couple of things, just bad experiences from the past that might hold people back from, from sharing. They're a little bit gun shy, but also just making sure that you're surrounding yourself with the right people who will actually encourage you because then you have that accountability. You give yourself a deadline. Again, that's another thing I see people miss too.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Because if there's no deadline, then you're always on time. And then you never take action because you can always convince yourself that you're just in a constant state of preparation.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love that you brought up that idea of having the wrong people around you. I, my second book is called Overcome Your Villains and it's 100% about that concept. I've learned through doing things incorrectly by having the wrong people around me, whether it be at work, social situations, it doesn't matter where it is. There is something that changes drastically in your life when you decide to fire the villains in your life. And again, I'm not saying that they're evil people, but they're just not your people. They're not your champions. They're not pouring into you. They're taking from you, you know, like those energy vampires out there. And when you decide to cut that forward and rid your life, your business and in your sphere of who you interface with,

• 14:49Speaker 00

  it's a seismic shift and really powerful shift that I've seen personally. I've seen with so many different people that it's one of the most important things is who you choose to spend your time with. Oh, my gosh. Obviously, first and foremost, you know, that inner voice that you have inside, that's the most important one. But after that, those people that you spend the majority of your time with can drastically shape how you think, what you go for, what you believe is possible and what you ultimately do.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Yes. Okay. Let's go deeper into this, Heather, because I think everybody would say, okay, villains, don't want villains in my life. Right? It sounds simple, but what I've seen in, in my experience is that a lot of times the villains don't appear as though they're villains. And sometimes they actually have your best interest in mind, but it doesn't change the fact that the impact that they're having on your life is dra, is drastically in the negative. So how can we start to identify those people who we might need to create some space from in, in our lives? So we can actually achieve the goals that we have?

• 15:48Speaker 00

  One of the things that's been most helpful for me has been journaling, right? Because you get very real with yourself. You're not concerned about anyone else judging you. You're not concerned about hurting someone else's feelings when you're just writing in a journal. Right? So you can be real. The more you journal, the more you listen to your own voice and start to act on it, the louder your intuition gets. That's, to me, that's the guiding light, like your intuition is it. So the more that you can amplify your intuition, you're going to really start to understand, wait a minute, this is not serving me. Also checking in with yourself. I had a frenemy, right? Someone not a bad person, someone who outwardly was saying very nice things about me. But every time I would spend time with this woman, after leaving her, I would feel drained. I would feel discouraged. I would feel not as great about myself.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  So checking in with yourself on the different days and different activities that you do and places you go with different people, how do you feel when you show up? Are you looking forward to it? How do you feel afterwards? There are some people I can't wait to get to because I know I'm going to feel better leaving them than when I got there. Those are your people, right? Like starting to figure out and pay attention to how you show up, but also how you leave. And then when you start noticing, wow, I'm feeling drained. I'm feeling really down on myself. Start letting that other person know, you know what? I'm fully committed, can't make it this week to our lunch or to our scheduled, whatever it's going to be. You don't need to say anything hurtful to someone, but you need to start freeing up space and time for yourself to spend time away from those people to realize, wait a minute, this is a good thing.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  I feel better. I, I don't feel as down on myself when I'm not spending time with these people. I'm reading it in my journal. I'm reflecting on it, you know, through my intuition. Wait a minute, this is not someone I should be spending a lot of time with. And as you take those small steps, then you, you're able to take bigger, bolder steps and eventually take those people out of your life.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Yep. I, I love this. And the, the concept of frenemies is, is, is not explored enough. I remember there was a study where they found that there, if, if you have an enemy, a clear enemy, not surprisingly, that will cause stress and anxiety in your life. But what is, was interesting in that study is that the thing that causes the most stress is a frenemy. When you're not sure whether they're helping or hurting. And I love the idea of journaling too, because as long as you're keeping it real with yourself, you're going to start to see those patterns. And then I feel like one of the hardest things to do is give yourself permission to take the action that you need to take.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Because oftentimes those frenemies can use and weaponize guilt against you to say, but you're supposed to be my friend. You shouldn't be pushing me away. But they don't acknowledge the damage that they're doing. And so can you kind of walk us through with a little bit more specificity, what that looks like when we're saying, okay, I've now identified this person as a frenemy? Now, how do we have that conversation if they start to weaponize guilt against us and keep trying to push, bring us closer together when we're trying to create some distance?

• 18:47Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, no one can make you feel anyway. That's just such a general misconception, right? No one can, controls your emotions but you and how you choose to feel. So someone can say something to, you know, try to make you feel guilty. It's up to you how you respond to it, right? So we, we do not react. We respond with all of the class and grace in the world within us that we can get. And you know, and it's having that intention and showing up with that intention. Now, when you've been reflecting back on your journal and your time with someone and you're clear that this person is not helping you, but in fact is draining you, hurting you, you have to set an intention as well that you're going to create that space. The easiest way for me to do it initially is just to let people know I'm fully committed. I'm, you know, thank you so much for your understanding. I am underwater right now.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  I'm really, I've got a lot on my plate. There's so many different ways that you can gracefully step out of something. And that works very often, right? Because people do understand you have kids, you have work, like, you know, you have a life, you've got a million different things going on. However, there are some people that will try to.

• 19:49Speaker 01

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• 20:42Speaker 01

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• 21:27Speaker 01

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• 21:43Speaker 00

  Impact you and, and make you show up for them in some way. And so if that person starts saying, you know what? I just, I feel terrible. You know, you're not making me a priority any longer. One of the things that I would say back to someone that situation is I hear you. I understand that. I did not intentionally mean to make you feel that way. However, I'm asking for your help right now because I am going through a difficult situation with my business, with my timing, with my child at senior and in high school, which I'm living right now. There's so much going on. I really appreciate your support and understanding as I move through this. We'll circle back when time frees up. Right? Like, so again, not reacting and starting to argue with someone that no, I'm not right. Like, don't give them your power. After I just said that I did that the other day, I did.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  But being intentional, being thoughtful about it, trying to have some empathy for that other person, but holding your boundaries and achieving your objective, which when you went in, there was the intention that you were creating more space.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Oh, this is brilliant because I'm glad you started off with the emotional intelligence. We're recognizing, we're not reacting, we're responding, but also you are in control of your emotions. And you can't just give away your power to other people who often don't have your best interest in mind. And it sounds like when you're having these conversations and setting this boundary, the mistake a lot of people make is that they turn it into an argument or a negotiation where you need to convince the other person to be okay with your decision. But instead you're saying, hey, listen, I know what the conclusion is. I'm just letting you know what it is. That's my goal in this conversation. There's no negotiating this. I'm setting this boundary. It is what it is. And if you can't handle it, I wish you the best in trying to figure that out. Maybe you should journal.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Exactly. You know, I don't feel that I need to convince someone to my way of thinking. I'd already made a decision before I walked into that, you know, environment, that situation or that exchange. So I don't, if, if at the end of the day, that person says, Heather, I still don't agree with you. I completely understand. And, and at this one, I think we shake hands and part friends. Right? Like that makes it even easier is if someone's going to try to throw down like, okay, sure. No problem. Then you know what? You and I just really aren't seeing eye to eye anymore. And while I, I care a lot about you, I think that you and I should probably shake hands and, and part friends at this point. That, that's an even easier out.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  I feel like their heads exploding right now because the, the thing that people are afraid of the most is a person not liking them or disagreeing or judging. And you, you're saying if they do fantastic, that just makes the process easier.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  It really does make it easier though. You know, too often, especially women, they, they feel guilt. They feel that, you know, oh, they're responsible for other people. At the end of the day, everybody is responsible for their own life, their own choices. That is it, right? Like we can't make them feel differently. We can't make them happier. We can't make them nicer or make them treat us differently. We're only in charge of how we show up, how we feel, the energy we bring to an exchange and the decisions we make, the boundaries that we set and the intentions that we set. So it's really keeping that focus on ourselves, thanking others for their understanding, thanking others, you know, for their grace and keep it moving forward.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. So here's what's hitting me now because I feel as though you have a type of confidence that comes from within through the actions that you take and what you believe about yourself. And I think a lot of times people have confidence by consensus where they don't have confidence unless other people are agreeing with them or validating them. And I think a lot of times that that's fragile and it leads people to get stuck in conversations that don't really need to happen. So they have these conversations because they say, I want something to happen, but I won't allow myself to do it unless I can get these people to agree with me and validate and give me permission to do those things. So we see people getting stuck in these arguments that don't even need to happen.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  And so they might come to a podcast like this, or they might search for different negotiation or argumentation techniques because they're saying, I need to win this argument. But it, it sounds like one of the problems people have is that they are trying to win the argument when they should instead be focusing on how they can retain their own agency and take action and live the life that they want to live.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. You know, you, you started by saying that they were either getting their confidence from consensus from others or outside, outside of themselves, right? And, and that really is the issue, whether it be you're getting your confidence from your job title, your home, your kids grades, right? These are, or from what other friends and family say about you, you're giving your power away. I did that for many years. I definitely had built my confidence on all the external factors. So when those external factors disappeared, I, when I lost my job, it took me from like a 10, it would seem like I had a 10 in confidence to a zero or a one, you know, overnight. And that was this really interesting moment for me to say, wait a minute.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  Okay, this thing was flawed from the jump because now here I, you can't truly lose your confidence overnight if it really was within you. Mine wasn't. And so I learned in that moment, okay, I'm not going to give my confidence away to other people because then I have to keep rebuilding it all the time. And that seems like a very daunting task. So instead, why don't I rebuild it this time based on things people can't take away from me, based on who I am as a person, my morals, my energy, my decisions, my action steps, who, you know, my personality, my expertise, whatever it is that's within you, right? And starting to become a champion for those things and for yourself and seeing those things as the real root of who you are and where your confidence is based.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Suddenly it doesn't matter so much what somebody else is saying about you because you've got this bedrock strength within you.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Oh, this is, this is great. And what I love about this is that you're, you're talking about how this is a process and you're taking control. And when you look back on your life and when you started to build your own confidence that is built on a firmer foundation that you're in control of. Can you walk people through the steps that you took to get there?

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. So when that happened, when I lost my job, what I did was I created a 30 day plan to create confidence. I don't see it any differently than losing weight. And, and that's just a good analogy because people are very familiar with that, right? Like you weigh yourself on day one, you create a goal for 30 days later. It's very specific. I'm making it up. I'm going to lose five pounds from day one to day 30. I'm going to track, I'm going to have someone hold me accountable. I'm going to work with a coach that can advise me on the right, you know, machines to use in my workout, foods to eat, whatever it's going to be. Creating confidence is no different, right? So it's like, I'm going to set this intention. I'm going to give myself 30 days. I'm start, I'm weighing in today. I'm at a one on my confidence. I want to go to a 10, getting that visual of what a 10 looks like.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Everybody's had a 10 moment in their life at some point, whether you had it in your relationship with a loved one, whether you had it in the workplace with something you were proud of, whether you had it in high school as, you know, an athlete. It doesn't matter. We've all had a moment somewhere along our lives and in our journey where we felt a tremendous amount of confidence. Maybe it was fleeting, but you know what it looks like? Getting that image so that you know visually what are you working towards? You've been there before, you can feel that and you can start claiming that. And then taking action steps every day, like what are those little steps that you can begin with to help you build some momentum? And it can be anything, right? For me, it was reaching out and letting people know I had been fired, shining a light on shame, right? You're going to either claim your shame or your shame is going to claim you.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  I decided to start claiming mine. And so sharing with people I've been fired, I'm looking, I need some help, asking for help is something strong people do. I brought in and recruited some accountability partners to go on this 30 day journey with me to help me really reboot. I asked for what I needed from others, which is another great step, right? Telling people what it is specifically that you need because people are not my readers. A gratitude practice every day is super, super helpful and shifting your energy and getting you to see all the positives that are already around you. Dropping, I'm sorry. So many women say, I'm sorry. So I gave myself a 30 day challenge. I would not apologize for anything for 30 days. Instead I'd make it about others and thank them for their understanding and thank them for their patience and thank them for their help.

• 30:20Speaker 00

  So there's so many different steps you can take. Affirmations is another positive, like figuring out how are you spending your time? If you're sitting on a couch, watching scary movies all night, probably not the best decision if you're in this window where you're trying to train to build your confidence, right? So instead for me, it's like, I'll watch inspiring TEDx talks or like, if I have a big goal, a big speech I want to give, I'll start surrounding myself visually with other people who have done the things I want to do and start watching that so I can put myself in those situations, even if I haven't done it yet, right? That's okay. I have a unique value proposition exercise that I ask people to go through where you reach out to 10 people in your life and ask, what is unique, valuable and different about me that I might not see in myself?

• 31:05Speaker 00

  Saving all of those feedbacks, putting it in a file on your phone and visiting those notes once or twice a week to remind yourself all these great things that you've forgotten. Too often people will put on rose colored glasses when they look at others, but not when they look at themselves in the mirror.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. This is great. There, there's so much to explore here, but I want to just make sure that the person listening recognizes this. You took action. The you, everything that you said was, I did this, I did that. You didn't just sit here and wait. There was, it's not a passive process. And the thing that's really beautiful about this is that everything that you talked about, those are things that are all attainable for the person who's listening. These are things that are within reach and you're eliminating the excuses that people put in place that don't need to be there. And I want to talk more about the apology side because this is something that has been, has been explored in many different ways.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  I've never heard it connected specifically to the act of building confidence. And correct me if I'm wrong, because it sounds like it's not just confidence though, but agency and giving yourself permission to do what's best for you. So can we explore this a bit more?

• 32:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll tell you how I came to this realization. It's funny, I used to work out at Barry's Bootcamp. I don't know if you ever worked out at Barry's Bootcamp before.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Bootcamp, sounds like it has cardio. I just pick things up, put them down and I don't do anything like that.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  Well, interesting you say that because that's exactly the analogy I'm going to give you. There, the workout is split in two. One is weightlifting on the ground, on the floor, and the other piece is running on a treadmill. I would crush it when I was running on the treadmill and I would be looking at a mirror and feeling super strong and like having this inner dialogue with myself like, you're killing it, kid, I'm so proud of you. Like I'm my biggest hype person. I truly believe we all need to be our biggest cheerleaders. So I do that all the time, whether I'm running outside or running, you know, on a treadmill and a mirror. And so I'm always pumping myself up. However, when they would call, a buzzer goes off and everyone switches. The floor goes to the treads, the tread goes to the floor. During that transition, it's very busy in between on the floor and there's so many

• 33:22Speaker 00

  people and a lot of big guys in there, right? And so people are bumping into one another, you're going to grab your weights. And I noticed that as these people were bumping into me, I'm saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Mind you, I wasn't doing anything wrong, but by the time I was at the position where I'm now going to be lifting weights, you're in front of another mirror, I was feeling lesser than how I felt on the tread. And I started noticing it and I was thinking, what has, I'm the same person, I'm just in a different environment, I'm a better runner than I am someone who lifts weights. So I knew that that could play a role, but I thought, you know what? That could be part of it, I'm just not as, you know, skilled over here as I am over there. But you know what I think is more is how I handle myself in the transition. I'm going to try something differently.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  So during that transition, the next time I, I, I wouldn't let myself say, I'm sorry. I would say, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. And I felt better and I felt stronger and then I felt even stronger. And then I started noticing less people are bumping into me. I shifted the way I was showing up in that transition and the words that I used and I felt differently about myself as a result. And that really opened my mind to this idea that, gosh, there's so many things that are in our control if we just start paying attention to the choices that we're making.

• 34:33Speaker 01

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• 35:17Speaker 01

  Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Kwame with Big Swings only. That's the best way to support the show. Try this, pull up your notes from a meeting last week. Do they still make sense or do they just seem like random notes that only the old version of you could decode? That used to be me and as a negotiator, that's a real problem because my job is to listen, not type or write notes. That's why Granola has been one of my favorite tools, period. It's an AI-powered notepad. I jot my usual rough notes and then Granola securely transcribes the meeting in the background. And when it ends, I get clean, structured notes that still make sense a week later.

• 36:02Speaker 01

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• 36:43Speaker 01

  And, and it's not just the fact that you executed on this and it made you feel different in a positive way. It also seems like it gave that, that confidence that you built in that moment radiated outside of yourself. So you took up more space and people changed the way that they interacted with you too.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  That's, that's a real win, right? Is when you're elevating your energy, you're holding your shoulders back, you're no longer kind of moving out of people's way, but instead walking with purpose because you've changed the level of confidence within you. It's not something people can necessarily point to, but they can feel and it truly does make an impact.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  It's massive and it's one of the, the smallest experiments that you can do, but it's so telling because it's instant feedback. I, my, my son's birthday was a couple of weeks ago, he turned 10. And so we're all big Buckeye fans. And so we took him to the game, he got to give the, the team high fives in the tunnel before they went out to the field. It was great. So we had a little bit of time before the game started and I said, so Kai, you saw how big the, the football players are? He said, yeah, they're big. Said, okay, so there's a difference, but you saw how they walked too. He said, yeah, they all had swag, shoulders back, chin up. Said, okay, so there is physical size, but then there's also psychological size. And if you walk with the, with the certain level of swag, then people will start to

• 38:06Speaker 01

  recognize your psychological size. And so I said, okay, we're in this crowded stadium. I want you to look at me, I'm going to walk, I'm going to walk in a straight line and people will get out of the way. And I'm a bigger guy, so I guess that, that kind of happens. But I said, but Kai, if you do it and you believe this and you just keep walking forward, chin up, shoulders back, people will get out of your way, just watch. And he walked, and he's so small, but to see people just kind of get, give you space. And when I think about the, um, the impact of psychological size or confidence or status, whatever it happens to be, presence as it relates to the way that the world interacts with you, I think that's an often under-explored element of persuasion where if you say something

• 38:49Speaker 01

  and you say it with confidence versus saying without confidence, the confidence always is the thing that will make the difference.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  It, it's an absolute game changer and everyone has the ability to elevate their, their confidence. Confidence is not a static thing. It does not stay the same. It can be so unbelievably different in your personal life versus your workout world versus your business life, you know, and, and at any point in time, it can change drastically. So you have to be cognizant of it and available and readily committed to elevating it in any moment, like your son did, walking through that tunnel.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Yes, you're so right because confidence is compartmentalized. You can be confident here and not confident there. And, but what I'm recognizing is a pattern that you've developed is monitoring. You're recognizing it. You're saying, I want to feel a certain way. And if I'm not feeling that way, I'm going to treat myself like a sample size of one and I'm going to figure out what is causing that? What can I do to, to overcome it? And you've been able to do this with consistency.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  Listen, no one's, first of all, people talk about the things that they need to hear about, right? So I, it's a beautiful thing that I get to teach about something that I need to remind myself about all the time because it's easy to forget, right? Like when I had lost my cool two days ago, that's not operating from a place of confidence. I was reacting, that was allowing emotion to dictate, you know, my own poor choices. So what I've learned is I speak about the things that I need to teach about because I need to teach myself first and foremost. But like anything, the more you do something, the more it becomes a habit and a part of who you are. So it's just easier, the more reps you put in, the better and more skilled you're going to get. So the more that you're calling on this, the more that you're stepping into it, you can say, oh, wait a minute, okay, now I see.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  And it's interesting, just hearing you describe that jolted my mind to that negative conversation I had a couple of days ago and I was like, ooh, wait a minute, I was letting a negative person get into my head. I was allowing for that. I had let my confidence drop. In any moment, you're either creating confidence or you're chipping away at it. When you decide to see that simplistically. I get it. I was letting a negative person get in my head that I had written off before. I had reopened a door to that person. That's what was allowing my confidence to drop in that moment. And that's why I was behaving from a reactive manner instead of showing up from a powerful place. So listen, we all make mistakes. We're all growing and trying to learn and doing the best that we can.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  There is, when, when you talk about this, it's clear that you spend a lot of time thinking about it because you just drop these brilliant lines. And I think people can miss it. I want to make sure that they hear everything. Two words that stood out for me in that. Number one, it's a skill. You talked about developing a skill, but people don't often think about confidence as a skill. It's a learnable skill. And just like any other skill, it takes practice and you will get better with time. And the other thing that you said is when you decide to make it that simple. Because in this situation, you're recognizing, hey, you can decide to overcomplicate it too. And that's a decision that does not serve you. But if you decide to make it simple, then you, if you simplify the, the problem, then you simplify the solution. And then you could actually take action and do something about it.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  But a lot of times people get stuck in their head. And then there's another thing that I want to make sure people notice is that, again, going back to what you said at the beginning, you, nobody can make you feel anything. So even when you're telling that story, you're retelling that story of a mistake that you made with confident language. Because you said, I let them get into my head. You didn't say, they got into my head. You didn't say they did this, or they made me feel this. You said, no, I had agency, I had power, I gave it away in that moment. That was a mistake. I'm not going to do it again. And so a lot of times when people blame, people will blame other people for the mistakes that they make. They'll blame other people for their lack of confidence.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  They'll blame other people for conversations not going well without taking the time to, to evaluate their role in it and what they could have done differently. So I just wanted to make sure that everybody could see this. It's a skill, it takes action, takes decisions, but also you are in control.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Oh yeah. I mean, there's, there's no doubt. Another thing that I'll add to that is, you know, beyond being a skill, it's a transferable skill. And I see this a lot with parents, with children, or with leaders in their teams. Right? So the more you show up as a confident best version of yourself, owning it, not using victim, you know, mentality, victim words, but instead owning your flaws, owning your decisions, sharing with others what it is that you're working on, what you're building and, and how you're doing it, like you did with your son, walking that day, the sooner they're going to take that on as well and give that a shot. And, and you see it so, so often. I see women will say to me, I'm having a problem with my daughter. And I'll say, what's going on?

• 43:42Speaker 00

  Oh, her confidence is so low. Tell me, what, what does that look like? Oh, she won't even take a picture. She won't stand up tall. And I always say, tell me about you. And they'll say, what do you mean, tell you about? And I'm like, I want to hear about you. Do you take pictures? No, Heather, I don't take pictures. You know, why would I do that? Wait a minute, hang on. How, how are you? Start looking in the mirror. We have such an impact on our kids from the actions that we take and the things that we do versus what we tell them to do. You know, they don't necessarily listen to what we say. They, they watch what we do and then they emulate what they're seeing as the action steps that we take. So it's, it really is transferable because they're going to model after the behavior they see you leading with. And, and this is the same with teams in business.

• 44:27Speaker 00

  That if you are someone who admits, I'm flawed, I make mistakes. Let me share with you guys what went down this week that I'm, I'm a little disappointed in. Let me talk to you about how I'm going to rectify the situation and move it forward. When you start having dialogue like that with a team, they feel more confident and empowered to say, ooh, I'm going to go for this thing because I know Heather makes mistakes sometimes. So if I fail at it, I fail. But you know what? We're going to be on the same page versus, you know, the complete antithesis of that is someone who tries to act perfect. That, you know, um, everything is going amazing and here's what we're doing next. And people feel very uncomfortable in situations like that because no one's perfect. They know that there's a flaw there, but no one's owning it. And now they're saying, boy, I can't be the one to own it. I can't be the one to make a mistake.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  And, and that's where a lot of, you know, distrust, lack of confidence within teams starts to occur too.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  That's so good. You're, you're right. I think, I think it was Maxwell called it the leadership lid. It's very hard for a team to outperform the, the capacity of the leader. And it's, um, it should be empowering, but it can be scary when you recognize that it's not so much your words, but your actions that people will follow. And then you have to, you have to practice what you preach and start walking in it. Because people are going to follow you whichever direction you start to walk as the leader. Yeah, this is great.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Well, I know we're coming up on time, so I want to make sure we have some time for Simone to come in and ask his question. Simone, what do you got for us?

• 45:59Speaker 02

  I really liked what you were talking about, uh, confidence and that it is a transferable, uh, skill. Uh, you know that I am the producer of the podcast and I was struggling with an email that I had to send. Uh, because I had to lead people who, who are, um, maybe big personalities. So for me, it was very difficult to create that email that I will have to send over and over again. So I created an email trying to show authority so that they follow my lead. And I sent that to Kwame. So Kwame saw that email and said, no, no, no, no, no, this is what you have to say. And he created the email for me and that's how I understood what I had to do.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  And I said, oh, okay, this is me and this is my authority and I was not using that properly. So I understood, uh, what level of confidence I had to have, right?

• 46:53Speaker 02

  But, uh, without that, it was very difficult for me because I was constantly, uh, being a barrier to myself. Like I had imposter syndrome or things like that. So how do we, uh, get out of where, of our own way? So that we can shine and, and, and be confident to do whatever, uh, we want to, to achieve or to do.

• 47:18Speaker 00

  Well, you know, one of the things, first of all, it's all about the roles that you're in, understanding the expectations of the role. You know, good communication within teams, all of that is going to help, um, with how confident you feel like you're showing up. Making sure you're doing a job, um, that you really feel passionate about and connected to. You know, a fish does not do well climbing up a tree, but does incredibly well out in the ocean. And, and making sure you're in that right situation, that your skillset is set up for you to have success in what it is that you're doing. And then giving yourself grace, right? That nobody's nailing everything perfectly. It's all about growth and how do we, you know, advance? And what other times have you had to experience like this in the past where you? For me, I would go back to when I was fired.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  I would go back to wait a minute, but I remember starting out as a sales rep when I was 21 and making it to the C-suite. Like that was a huge journey that I went on. Sometimes we want like all the success in a moment and everything to go great in one moment. We have to look back at different times of our life to say, oh, I remember starting out at this. I remember learning how to ride a bike the first day. I wasn't great at it. And giving yourself that grace that, you know, it's going to take some time. You've got to put those reps in and you've got to give yourself, um, that positive feedback and encouragement that, oh, I've done this in the past before. I made mistakes in the past. I've, you know, taught myself how to do new things. I've asked for help when I needed it. These different things work and serve me and I can do these different things again today.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  So it's really, you know, the most important voice that you will ever hear is the one between your own two ears. That is for sure. Cause you spend more time with that person than anyone else in the world. So it's all about how do we rewrite that narrative? How do we drop labels? How do we drop negative conditioning, uh, you know, that we're, we could potentially be saying to ourselves? There are so many different ways to do it. But, you know, it's really about, um, being kind to yourself and, and, and cutting yourself some slack because everybody deserves that.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  That's so good. That is, that's great. And I, I think that's, and I think this will be the, the last point here too. I want to get your thoughts on this. When it comes to self-compassion, when it comes to giving yourself grace, I found, I find that a lot of high performers really struggle with this. I'm speaking from experience here too. Because a lot of times the, uh, we almost feel like the, our, our superpower is operating from a place of insufficiency. Where I am not enough, I'm not doing well enough, or I make mistakes and I need to treat myself harshly for those mistakes. Because that's the motivation to do better. And so for you, you've accomplished a lot and you're obviously a very high performer.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  How do you balance ambition with grace and self-compassion?

• 50:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I'll tell you, when I was, um, in my early twenties, I was seeing a therapist, which I've seen a therapist, uh, throughout my whole life, highly recommend it, right? So one of the things I had done for a long time was beat myself up profusely. To your point, as a type A overachiever, if I wasn't delivering on some level that I felt I should be, it was not a nice discussion. And so I don't do that anymore, thankfully. But she taught me, she said to me, um, hang on, let me ask you a quick question, Heather. And I said, sure. What, after I was beating myself up verbally in front of her, she said, how's that working out for you? And I said, wait, what do you mean, how's it working out for you? She was, how's that working out, talking to yourself like that? Is it good? Do you feel good about yourself right now?

• 50:46Speaker 00

  I said, oh gosh, no, I feel terrible. She's like, so do you think that's really working for you? And I had to sit and think, and I'm like, I guess not. I guess, I guess that's not. I guess talking negatively about me is not helpful. She said, okay, so now that we know this, we, we know you're doing that to yourself. How do we change it? And there's a few different ways, you know, um, some people carry around a picture of themselves as a child. And then the next time they start speaking negatively about themselves, you know, out loud or in their mind, they take that picture out of themselves as a child and say, wait a minute, do I need to speak to myself like this? Someone that you could feel loved for and care for, like the young you, right? So that's a way to have yourself say, ooh, gosh, that poor little girl in there.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  Like I don't need to be talking trash to her. I would never do that to my kid, right? So it, it gives you pause to say, oh, I can have a better conversation here. That's a way that I did it for a while was, would I talk to my child like this? Absolutely not. How would I reframe it for my son? And I always do things with him as a learning experience. Okay, this is a great opportunity for us to learn from something. So I started saying that to myself instead, right? So the more we can show up as that better version of ourselves, the more impact we're going to have on others. The more we're going to, you know, more positively impact the world. When I feel challenged with myself, I pause and remind myself, wait a minute. If I'm not leading by example, if I'm sitting over here beating myself up, it's not working out for me. It's not paying dividends.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  I'm going to remember that there is a young girl inside there that I need to treat with, um, kid gloves that, you know, I would never talk to my child or someone else I love this way. I'm going to start treating myself the same way I would treat my child or someone I love. And the more you really start doing that, putting that into practice, uh, it's a huge, huge change.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  This is so good. Heather, I could talk to you about this forever. I really appreciate you coming on the show. And before you go, can you let the listeners know about your podcast, your speaking and how folks can work with you?

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Yes, you can listen to Kwame on my show, uh, Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan. We drop two episodes every week. We are found anywhere and everywhere that you get your podcasts. And you can go to heathermonahan.com. You want to look to have me speak for you, work with you, or I'm on all social media, at Heather Monahan.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Incredible. Heather, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Thanks for having me.