Selena Rezvani: Stop Trying to Prove You Belong—Be Yourself, and Go for It

What if the biggest thing standing between you and your next opportunity is the decision to reject yourself before anyone else can? Leadership expert and bestselling author Selena Rezvani joins Kwame Christian to explore what it really takes to advocate for yourself, take bigger swings, and keep moving when fear, perfectionism, or self-doubt tells you to play it safe. Selena shares the bold ask that changed the course of her college years, the career rejection she turned into an unexpected opportunity, and why high achievers need to stop tying their worth to their accomplishments. They also unpack the power of a “win or learn” mindset, giving yourself permission to be a beginner, leading with vulnerability, building psychological safety, handling criticism, and showing up as your authentic self. If you’ve been waiting until you feel confident, qualified, or completely ready to make your move, this conversation is your reminder: take the shot anyway. Connect with Selena Website: https://www.selenarezvani.com/ Book: Quick Confidence and Quick Wins LinkedIn: Selena Rezvani Instagram: @SelenaRezvani Tiktok: @Selena Rezvani Contact ANI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Request A Customized Workshop For Your Company⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Kwame Christian on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠negotiateanything.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Click here to buy your copy of Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life!

• 0:00Speaker 00

  From the outside looking in, Selena's life looks almost perfect. She has a beautiful family. She's a bestselling author and she's spoken at Harvard, Microsoft, the World Bank and more. She has spent her entire career helping people just like you learn how to advocate for themselves. But today, we're going to take a different direction. We're going to ask her the questions that nobody ever asks. How does a person get like this? And why does she do what she does? It goes back to her teenage years. Her father passed away and the loss didn't just hit the family emotionally. It crushed them financially. But thankfully, she was still able to get into college with financial assistance. And it looked like things were finally turning around.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Until next year's financial aid letter came back and it wasn't enough. Her mother sat her down at the kitchen table with pain in her eyes and said, Selena, I'm sorry. I can't send you back. And this is where the story turns. This was the pivotal moment. This is where her journey into self advocacy began, not out of just intellectual curiosity, but out of financial necessity. She had no leverage. She had no guarantees, just a decision that if anything was going to change, it had to start with her. The woman who dedicated her life to helping people like you and me advocate for themselves was born in that very moment where she had to learn how to advocate for herself. This is the story of Selena Resvani.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Welcome to Big Swings Only. Today's episode is brought to you by Shopify, Granola AI, Quince and the Anxious Achiever Podcast. Stay present in your meetings. Get three months of granola free at granola.ai/Quami. For your gift list, shopquince.com for free shipping and 365 day returns. And make sure to tell them that Quami with Big Swings Only sent you. Subscribe to the Anxious Achiever today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Do you have an idea that you want live for the holidays? Launch before Black Friday at Shopify.com/Quami.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  Playing it safe is easy. Playing it safe is comfortable. But here's the problem. Playing it safe and playing by rules that were never meant for you will never take you to the next level. If you've got what it takes to hit the ball out of the park, the only thing holding you back is whether you're brave enough to take a big swing. I'm Quami Christian and this is Big Swings Only. Every week, we're telling you the stories of people who fought their fear, chased the life they actually wanted and became who they had to become to get it. This show is built for people who are meant for more because if you really want to get to the next level, you've got to do something big. So the question isn't whether or not you've got what it takes. The question is whether or not you're going to swing. You were built for more and this show was built for you.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  Subscribe now.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  Every, the world knows you as this leadership expert. They go to you to get this information. It would be cool to show the journey of who you were before this.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Yes, I was in college, right? I had gone to my first year and I loved it. Like I was in my element. I had found my place. I was like happy with my decision. And low and behold, we get the letter for the next year from the financial aid office. And they have given me significantly less financial aid, which, which my family needed. My dad had passed away when I was a teenager. So it was a struggle to send me to school, even with the school's help. But here I had less financial aid. And my mom sat me down at our kitchen table, pain in her eyes. And she said, Selena, I'm sorry. I can't send you back.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  And I knew in that moment, if something was going to change the outcome here, it had to start with me. You know, my mom had never been to a four year college, let alone, you know, heckled with the financial aid office. And so I wasn't sure what to do, but it was time for a bold swing. And so I wrote this long letter to the financial aid office saying essentially, please keep me. Please reconsider. These are the ways I want to add to the university life and values. These are all the jobs I'm willing to take, you know? Cafeteria worker, tour guide, financial aid office helper, what, you know, whatever it is.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  And to my shock, Quami, they changed that package. They increased that package so I could go not just for year two, but for year three and year four. And they gave me all those jobs, by the way, as well. I, uh, yeah, I knew that university inside and outside by the end. Cause I'd been in so many offices and like pushing so many carts and things. But my goodness, it taught me that asking that form of making a bold swing, and you know this better than anyone, Quami, can change your life. Can change the direction of your life.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  And, and I went on to teach that skill, you know, to women in particular. But as a recovering good girl, someone who learned, don't be difficult. Only take enough. Don't ask for too much. It took a lot for that young 19 year old, you know, to do. And I'm so grateful for it. I still have the letter, Quami, believe it or not. I think written on a typewriter.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  This is so great. And I love being able to see this aspect of you because everybody sees you as the Selena Rezvani. Right? The, the bestselling author who everybody follows for the best leadership advice. And it's so fascinating to explore who you were before that because you were always yourself, but you shaped yourself by taking these big swings and bold moves. And I want to go back to something that you said, because there's a lot of depth to this. And I think it could reveal a lot of, uh, behind your mindset. You said, it had to start with me.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  And I think that's really interesting because you said theoretically it could. You didn't say that. You didn't say it should, or maybe it could. You said it had to. Why did you phrase it that way?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  You know, anyone who has a single mom knows that they are incredible and they are the masters of doing a lot with a little. And my mom is a great example of that. But she had a lot going on. She had multiple jobs, you know, things that were not my college future. And I realized this is Selena, a moment for you to step up and take some ownership. You know, you might be a youngish person and barely an adult, but this is, this is your moment to seize. I think it just felt like a natural progression. And I think in life, sometimes you have those moments where you're very aware.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  I don't passively sit here and find out what happens. This is a moment for me to stand, you know, step up and make something happen. And maybe that thing is going to be a no. We can't. Maybe it's going to be a yes. Maybe it's going to be something better than you dreamed of, but I'm grateful for that moment of pressure that hit me that said, this one's on me.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  So there's an awareness. There's like that gut instinct that you know, whatever it is, whatever the situation is, this is one of the most important moments of my life. And you have a choice to actually either do something about it and actively make a concerted effort to move in a certain direction or passively sit by and let fate and circumstance dictate the decision for you. And I feel like that's something that people often miss. Even inaction is action in a sense. Indecision is a decision and it's a decision to forego the ability to make a decision for yourself.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yes, I think you're absolutely right. And you're not immune to it, even if you are the most networked person or you're very like rich in relationships. You could have all the ralliers and supporters and sponsors at work and like people lobbying for you. Nobody is going to take that big swing on your behalf. Right? In my case, with that college moment, nobody was going to be that inner advocate. Right? That I needed in that moment with the fire that I had for the situation. And, and so I think it was important that letter come from me.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Cause I think had it come from someone else, a family member, it wouldn't have the same power potentially. So those moments are special and I, I literally think back to that often. I really do. It's, it's not like it happened, you know, 20 some years ago. It, it feels like a really instructive moment in my life.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  Let's go back to the moment and I want to hypothesize a different, an alternative ending. Like this is a Goosebumps book.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  And so imagine you didn't take that risk. You didn't write the letter. You just sat idly by and accepted your fate and did something else. What would that have told you about yourself, looking back at that moment? If you didn't take that swing?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  I think there would have been an element of like a defeatist mindset. This either isn't worth pushing, or, ah, I already know what kind of answer I'm gonna get. There's no way a school's gonna lay out this red carpet and welcome me in without the resources I need. You know, so I think there's sometimes this defeatist mindset, which can be protective. You know, it feels like armor. I'll reject myself from this before you can. And maybe that protects me from a little bit of pain because I'm preempting. Um, but unfortunately, it also preempts you from any opportunity because you deny yourself

• 10:51Speaker 01

  any opportunity when you put that armor on to go back to the table and say, how about? Or what do you think of? Or would you consider? So I think it serves you when you're taking big swings to channel your inner optimist. Because if you're gonna walk around with this skeptical defeatist mindset, the decision's already made. You know, I think it's okay to be a little delusionally optimistic sometimes.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  I agree 100%. And a lot of the dreamers are, you have to be in, in many ways. Because you're trying to create something or create a different lifestyle for yourself that doesn't yet exist. So there's a hearty dose of imagination blended with belief that's required to even have the audacity to try.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're absolutely right. And there's a phrase that's helped me even recently in life to keep taking those risks and those swings. Um, and it might sound a little cheesy, but it works for me. And so, and for my coaching clients too. And it's instead of being hyper fixated on failure, which is easy to do. What if I mess up? What if I humiliate myself? What if I screw up this project?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Taking that off the table for a minute and, and having it not be the center of your focus. And instead saying to yourself, I'm either gonna win or I'm gonna learn. You know, what if failure wasn't this like looming cloud over your head? And, and instead you're entertaining these other two kind of healthy, good things. I'm either gonna win or I'm gonna learn. None of it's wasted. And I think that helps, you know, even the boo-boos and the mess ups. When you look at it that way, I'm gonna take that with me. I'm gonna be better for it. I'm gonna know more next time. It's, it's much more empowering.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  100%. And you know what's really interesting too? Even when we think about winning versus losing or winning versus learning. One thing that I've recognized, I was just journaling about this last night. Uh, tell me if this resonates at all. So we live life afraid of failure a lot of times and we drive toward what we think success is. But I started looking back and I recognized that I'm usually, I'm often not very good at understanding what a win is versus a loss and vice versa. Because there are times where there's something specifically that we want and then we get it. And then we realize that bad things happened as a result of getting that thing.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  And then there are times in our life where we are fighting like hell to avoid a certain outcome. And then that outcome happens. And then we realize I wouldn't be who I am today without that. I needed that. And so even the, the concepts of winning and losing are often very, we don't have a full understanding of it because we're very bad at predicting what would be good for us extended out into the future.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're, you're right. I think sometimes those even yuckiest, cringiest losses did inform something better or helped create room for a, a new opportunity you needed. And so I think it's an interesting thing to describe it. One of the things I've noticed is we have the power to define what a win is. And in terms of staying motivated in life to keep at it, to keep being bold, to keep going. I find it's a lot easier to stay motivated when I have a streak of little wins. And I find a lot of achiever types don't like to acknowledge little wins.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  They want to acknowledge the big proposal that got accepted, you know, the big uh, bid, the big project that's, you know, over the line. And there's a real reticence and I've actually noticed it even a little more with my male, uh, coaching clients to kind of sit back and savor and enjoy that, that little W win. And yet it's like one of the best ways for human beings to stay motivated and to stay in the game. Um, not to make it just your Mount Everest. But how about the fact that you took a little trek today when you absolutely didn't want to? And you weren't in the mood.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Maybe it wasn't Mount Everest, but you still did it. Look at you. You kept that promise to yourself. That's worth celebrating. Um, I'm also a rewards person, so I like little deals that I make with myself, you know? Um, not even for anything huge, but just, you know, after this, we're, you know, try to get this one thing done and we're gonna go take a snack break. We're gonna go take a walk. We're gonna call up my sister and joke around with her. And, um, I think we all need that. But remember you get to define wins. And you can make it really hard and severe for yourself.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Like a scary perfectionistic, um, high stakes or nothing world. Or you can make it more enjoyable and, um, a place where you're like pumped to keep going.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  If you were going to take a big swing this holiday season and start a business, what would you build? Maybe it's that one idea that you can't stop thinking about. I've built a business from the ground up and I can tell you that the hard part isn't the idea. It's getting it live. That's where Shopify comes in. You can sell everywhere people shop, online, in person, across social media, even in AI chats. And Shopify checkout with Shop Pay converts up to 36% higher than the competition. So more of the people who show up actually buy. Plus, Black Friday is when more people are already shopping and ready to buy. So the sooner you're live, the better. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/Quami to start your free trial.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  That's Shopify.com/Quami. Go to Shopify.com/Quami to hear your first.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Every year I swear that I'm going to get ahead of holiday shopping. This year it started with a Quince cashmere sweater that I bought for myself. It was so soft, so well made. And my first thought was, who else on my list needs one? Quince makes high quality staples with 100% Mongolian cashmere and Italian leather. And their cashmere sweaters start at just $60. All of it is 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. As a negotiator, I know a great deal when I see one. This is luxury quality without the luxury price tag. I use Quince and you should too. Give the gift of quality this season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or just go to quince.com.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Quami with big swings only. That's the best way to support the show. This is so necessary. Selena, okay, we're gonna spend some time here because this is something that people really struggle with. I remember, you know, part of my origin story is the negotiation competitions from law school. And so we, um, I stumbled into a negotiation class and I was a people pleaser at the time. And it taught me how to advocate for myself. And we had these negotiation competitions that were formulated like moot court. So you and a partner were negotiating on behalf of a fictional client in front of a set of judges.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  Some of them were actual judges, which was terrifying as a law student. And so we won the competition at, at Ohio State. And then we represented the school at the regional competition in, for the American Bar Association in Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario. We won that too. And then we made it to the semis of nationals. Thank you, in Louisiana. And, um, this is where it gets, uh, you know, not great. So we made it to the semis. I didn't like that we didn't win. Um, and they said, here's an award, um, you know, a certificate. And, um, I, I left, I, I wanted to leave it there. I'm like, listen, I didn't come here for this consolation prize. I came here for number one. And my coach was like, first of all, take your, take your award.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Okay, and second of all, he said, Kwame, I used to live my life thinking the way that you do, where winning was like oxygen and it was only as good as the next win. And then you couldn't appreciate anything other than the purest form of victory. And let me tell you, that is a very hard way to live. It's a very hard way to live. And I didn't fully understand it because I thought, especially when we look at so many high achievers, they have this, this drive that comes from a dark place where they say, I don't want to lose. I don't want to have this outcome. If I don't get this, then I'm nothing. And then that it's a pathological drive for achievement at the cost of your identity.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  Cause you're like, this, this achievement is my identity. And it can be very scary to let that go because it got you to where you currently are. So I'd love to explore how you work with clients who, who have that type of mindset, where they say, but Selena, I can't celebrate the small wins. Then I'll get satisfied and dare I say content, then how could I be successful from a position of mental health? So can you walk us through how this works?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, look, there's great research from a professor at Harvard called Teresa Amabile that shows the way we stayed motivated is to make progress on something that has purpose for us. And so when we mark little wins, what are we doing? We are labeling progress as happening, right? It's not going under the radar. It's not unnoticed. Uh, we're saying, wow, I got from A to B today on writing my report. Um, let's note that I'm, I'm going somewhere and I feel momentum behind me. So I think that's one reason, right?

• 21:27Speaker 01

  It just keeps us going to know we have accomplished something. Um, I think the other thing is I, I know I had faulty thinking from my childhood that being an achiever made me more lovable, like more worthy of love. Um, I grew up in a really complicated house as the youngest of four kids. My dad was sick with chronic health problems and had like a very trigger happy, uh, temper. So the message I got as a kid was there is no room for fuss making.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Don't need anything because this place is too busy and kind of frantic with what we have going on. And I noticed when I didn't have needs, I was self-sufficient. One way I could get my mom and dad to smile, right? In all this drama was to get an A.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  You know, and it, I think very quickly cemented for me.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm more lovable. Like this is how I bring something to this family, some peace or like some little good thing. And it has taken a lot to unbecome that in my own life and say, no, you're more things than that, Selena. You know, like you're more things than the LinkedIn top voice or the, the things that, there's a big part of me wants to totally hang my hat on those things. But the truth is with therapy and just self, I think self-work too. I've realized, you know what electrifies me just as much, if not more as that outer accolade?

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Texting my friend because she's been going through a hard time. Like just remembering in this week, like, oh, I'm concerned about her. Let me, let me just take the three seconds to send her a, how are you doing text? I'm thinking about you. You know, so I think there's something to be said in us achievers of finding some

• 23:39Speaker 01

  esteem in other parts of ourselves, really making a point to say, what are their times? Do I really like myself? Like maybe I'm picking up trash in my neighborhood, you know? Maybe I'm, um, working hard to train for a 5K. Um, you know, that's still achievement oriented now that I catch myself. But like, um, you know, maybe it's just how I feel partaking in my book club or something. But I think that's important to like mark and, uh, even amplify. You know, I'm more than the letter great.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Yes, and that's, it's so powerful, but incredibly difficult to come to. Because what you were able to articulately synthesize in a, in 90 seconds probably took years to get to a point.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  No, you're so right, Kwame, and I can't, you're right. It sounds like a, you know, neat soundbite now, but it, for so long it wasn't. It was like a puzzle. And I remember people I care about, close to me were like, you know, I just worry, Selena, it's never enough for you, like achieving. Like they would say things like that, but I like, and I was like, you're not wrong. But I don't know what to do with that. Like, how do I make it make sense? And, and so I think a lot of us go through that. We might have like little flags go up, either in ourselves or other people are raising them. Um, but it's, it takes time to pull it together and see the bigger view.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  And thank goodness for therapy and coaches for that.

• 25:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think one of the things that makes this so challenging is that the behaviors that are, that are almost the most problematic as it relates to shedding this achievement-driven identity are also the ones that are most celebrated by society, right? So just like when we're the children, when we're children, it's, hey, I've got an A. That means I'm good. And now you do more things at a greater scale with hundreds of thousands of people, millions looking at you and you're like, wow, so I achieve more. That's better. That's more love for me. And if, I feel like if this addiction that we have to not feeling like we're enough

• 26:10Speaker 00

  is, is very difficult to overcome, um, because of that, because there's so much positive reinforcement. If it was something flagrantly bad, then everybody would be telling us to chill and stop doing it.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  You're right. You're right, but it's also so interesting about where we set the bar. Like I think about your law school competitions example. So many people would look at that and think just you participating in the very first one was such an accomplishment, right? For like a young law student, that's a big deal to shoot your shot and say, I'm going to try this. That alone is a victory to be participating in it, you know? But someone else's bar could be, I've got to win that. And then I've got to slam dunk the next thing. And then I need to be crowned, you know, king of this or that.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  And, and so it, it also takes time, I think, to realize us grownups, we are setting the bar now. We are setting the standard and again, defining what is a success or a win or, or not. And, uh, I've found that being more compassionate with myself hasn't made me go totally soft, which I was afraid it would, but it's also made me feel more compassionate with other people. Like, oh, you're in a season of life right now where this isn't possible for you? Okay, got it. Like, let's see where we can shift things. Um, it's hard to be that empathic, understanding human when you're not even like that with yourself.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  You're so right. You're so right. And it's funny because you keep on talking about the bar. And so for me as a lawyer, I think about the bar exam, the test that tortured me for a whole summer and then three days, Selena, three days of my life. And I, one, one thing that was, I mean, it was horrible. It was horrible, but one thing that I appreciated about it was this is once you pass the bar, you've, you've gotten to that point where you say, you're a lawyer. Job is done. This is great. You, you've made it to that point. Um, and that was nice, but like you said, the biggest, one of the biggest challenges for high achieving adults is that a lot of times nobody's setting the bar for you.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  You're setting the bar for yourself. And one of the things that I've recognized for myself is that the bar keeps on moving because I set the bar here and then I get there and then I get habituated to it. And then I have these friends like Selena who keep on writing, writing these bestselling books.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  So how do you handle the moving bar phenomenon?

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I think one of the things is to give yourself like what I call beginner's permission. Because if you are growing, okay, you're pushing yourself out of something you know. And for anybody listening, this could be a promotion you're saying yes to. Making partner, being elected to something. Just taking a bigger leadership role. We have a tendency to want to downplay our newness. And almost act as quick as we can, like we we know how things work. And that's not a very compassionate way, by the way, to handle yourself. It's also not a really compassionate way to lead.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Because what you're doing when you're trying to perform competence and certainty is you're modeling that for others. You know, so they're gonna ask fewer questions for fear of looking dumb. You know, they're gonna talk less in meetings, right? Because they shouldn't say stuff unless they're certain. And I think there's something wonderful, I talk about this in Quick Leadership. We get from some of that beginner's permission. If I'm gonna shoot my shot, if I'm gonna take big swings. I have to embrace the fact that there's gonna be some wobble in my legs. And it's, you know, I think about people who are really good at this is little kids.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  You know, like I think about my twins going to the playground. The first time they saw the monkey bars and they're looking up at them, they're not like, I'm gonna stink at this, or I'm so cringe, I don't even want to try and, you know, be that awkward beginner. They're like, what are they doing? They're like throwing a leg up somewhere on the ladder. They're putting their hand on one of the rungs and probably slipping a little bit. You know, they are hoisting one leg over the top and maybe fall down or slide off. And and there's something to be said for that.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  There's some page we can take from kids' books or the kid playbook to allow that messy start. And and to take a little pressure off. So if somebody got promoted, for example, I recommend focus on the day to day work at first. You know, make a rule with yourself that there's this grace period. I'm not allowed to make conclusive statements about how this is gonna turn out for at least two weeks. Like, I'm hopeless at this, for example, or this will never work out. It can be tempting to do that sometimes, but like, when you're doing this, you're like sitting in some of that discomfort.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  And you're tolerating it, maybe you're even embracing it and saying, this means I'm doing it right. This means I'm stretching out of what's comfortable.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  What I'm hearing is that perfect execution requires a lot of imperfection. And and we and we think perfect is just, we, it's a myth. It's just, it is not true. And when we see something that's too perfect, we immediately get skeptical because we know that nothing is perfect. So somebody here is lying. And what's fascinating, tell me, tell me if I'm looking too deeply into this, Selena, because especially for you as a leadership expert, everybody check out Quick Leadership. I'm thinking about how this mindset is protective in so many ways. Because number one, when you have those inevitable stumbles,

• 32:46Speaker 00

  you can, you can contextualize it well enough to say, this is part of the process. Why would I be good at something that I just started? And then also, it protects you from a lot of social ire from your colleagues. Because you're not gonna look like a jerk, because you're, you're actually embodying true humility. You're not trying to act humble. You're saying, I'm not perfect, I will make mistakes, I made mistakes. Did you make mistakes? And then people feel comfortable being more vulnerable. It creates psychological safety, which elevates everybody's performance.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  You're so right. And there is such a great ripple effect when, as let's say, a new leader, you can say something out loud like, I'm new to this part, right? It's such a simple statement, like, I'm, I'm still new to this, or I'm new to this part, or I'm still gathering background on how the backend works. It's, it's such a little thing, but you admitting where you are in the process, as you said, is such a smart, humble move. And it creates this environment of psychological safety. I'm passionate about this in Quick Leadership. Because it has so many positive ripples on your team. You know, when you have that sense of safety, what are you gonna have?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  People are gonna hazard a guess or share a little bit of an out there idea, which is often where brilliance is sitting, you know?

• 34:19Speaker 01

  They're going to be comfortable dissenting, saying something like, I know everyone's in agreement that, but I have this concern if we go that route.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  You know, they're comfortable taking a risk. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say. And like, those are some of the signs you're doing this well. And and just back to that other thing, they feel comfortable asking questions. There's like a no dumb questions vibe on the team. It's welcome. And so such an important thing to do as a leader, and there are so many ways you can build it.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  Yes, and now let's, let's talk about the, the, the psychological safety, the vulnerability, and how in many ways that emanates out from self compassion. Because you're absolutely right, it's very difficult for us to be, to demonstrate compassion and have true compassion to other people if we're not giving it to ourselves. There's something that we're holding back. And then your upbringing sounds a lot like mine in the sense that we're both driven by our, our parents to do very, very well in school. And that's important. Now, when you take all of this, and then we think about you as a mother, how has all of this changed the way that you parent your twins?

• 35:48Speaker 01

  I think I have a temptation sometimes to be that polished leader for my kids. Just like there's a temptation to be that on LinkedIn or, you know, as the business author leader. And one of the most freeing things I'm learning to do with them is.

• 36:10Speaker 00

  If you were going to take a big swing this holiday season and start a business, what would you build? Maybe it's that one idea that you can't stop thinking about. I've built a business from the ground up, and I can tell you that the hard part isn't the idea, it's getting it live. That's where Shopify comes in. You can sell everywhere people shop, online, in person, across social media, even in AI chats. And Shopify checkout with Shop Pay converts up to thirty six percent higher than the competition. So more of the people who show up actually buy. Plus, Black Friday is when more people are already shopping and ready to buy. So the sooner you're live, the better. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/Quami to start your free trial.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  That's Shopify.com/Quami. Go to Shopify.com/Quami to hear your first. Try this, pull up your notes from a meeting last week. Do they still make sense? Or do they just seem like random notes that only the old version of you could decode? That used to be me, and as a negotiator, that's a real problem, because my job is to listen, not type or write notes. That's why Granola has been one of my favorite tools, period. It's an AI powered notepad. I jot my usual rough notes, and then Granola securely transcribes the meeting in the background. And when it ends, I get clean, structured notes that still make sense a week later. Decisions, owners, next steps, everything that I would need to feel good about going forward.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  And it works through your device's audio too, so there's no additional setup or any annoying AI joining your call. Just your normal meeting, but with superpowers. If meetings are eating up your day, Granola is a no brainer. You can try it totally free for three months. Just go to granola.ai/Quami. That's granola.ai/Quami to get your time back. Get three months free at granola.ai/Quami.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Share my whoops moments, my mistakes, my little heartaches. They knew I was gonna give a new talk, like a brand new keynote. And I got my feedback back, and guess what? It wasn't on par with my time tested best keynotes. It was a little bit lower, and there was some helpful feedback in there for me. But like, being able to share that with them, like, I'm a little down today, I'm gonna get past it, but I'm just feeling like I had a hope for better, and I'm a little bummed out. It just feels so good.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Adults in my life didn't necessarily do that and show the vulnerability of having a, a job like mine. But I think it exists in everybody's job, no matter if you're on a factory floor or you're in a like white glove law firm. You have those little moments of feeling diminished or bad about yourself. And those moments of like sweet victory too. And so I try to really show them all of that, partly because I want them to show what it's, see what it's like to be an entrepreneur. You know, it's not all roses, as you well know, Quami. It's not all, you know, mimosas and little ponies to pet. It's, it's.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  It's got its ups and downs. And so there's something about real talk that means a lot to me as a parent, and I think that's mirrored in leadership. I'm not sitting here as the oracle who knows everything as the leader. I'm not sitting here as a bulletproof person who has no feelings or difficult things I'm carrying on my heart or in my life. You know, so I think there's some definite parallels there that make you a better parent and leader.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  First of all, crushing this, absolutely crushing it. I know you are. I know you know. So we've talked about some of your swings from the college years and some of the the mindset shifts that you've made in order to still continue to achieve at a high level, but doing that from a place of wellness. I'd be interested to see if there's something that happened after college that also helped to shape you when it comes to big swings that you've taken.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yes, there's a big one. And this is a story I share with people because I hope it can help them and that they can see themselves in it. But I'd say mid-career, shortly after starting my own business and going off on my own, I got this out of the blue incredible phone call. And it was from a huge, well-known tech company. I was working on women and leadership at the time, you know, writing columns, writing books, speaking to audiences. And they said to me on the phone, Selena, how would you like to interview to be our next global spokesperson?

• 41:07Speaker 01

  And I thought, like, what? This is so cool. Like, think about how this could make, you know, the world of tech a little more gender inclusive, more welcoming to women, like, what an opportunity. And of course, I played it cool in the moment. I was like, well, let me check my calendar and see if I'm free. But I was like fist pumping in the air silently. I was so excited, life goals, excited. Well, I prepped for that interview as the days get closer. And something started to happen. I found my self doubts were screaming. And I

• 41:46Speaker 01

  remember thinking to myself, you know what, I don't belong here. Like, in this lineup of candidates, I didn't know who else was invited to the party. And fast forward to the interview itself, I look back at that, and I did not bring my me-ness, you know, my Selena-ness, from the outfit I wore to my energy, you know, the ideas I put forward, I played it safe. And I kind of gave them this watered down, like, Diet Pepsi version

• 42:26Speaker 01

  of me. And I kind of learned that day, by the way, you might not be shocked that I got one of those polite rejection emails, you know, Selena, thanks for coming, stay in touch, but we're gonna go in another direction. And it was like, ouch, poof, that is gone.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  And I took some days to lick my wounds and eat a lot of Milano cookies, okay, under the covers and just like feel bad. And I remembered something she said, she said, keep in touch. And about a week later, I reached out to her, I said, listen, I know this other opportunity didn't work out, but I have an idea for you for a different collaboration. You know, I think we should do a study together on people's negotiating habits. And I think we'll find some really neat insights. And just like that, Kwame, she said, yes, I think

• 43:34Speaker 01

  that's a great idea. And we did co-write the survey, we launched it around the world, and we found some really cool and unexpected insights in there. And they made me the spokesperson for that campaign, you know, so going back to I'm either gonna win or I'm gonna learn, you know, I didn't have a lot to lose in that follow-up email, you know, in my mind, I had already lost one opportunity. But there was only upside if they were willing to entertain this other one or to say yes to it. And I learned so much from that moment

• 44:16Speaker 01

  about questioning your belonging versus affirming your belonging. And of course, I learned that, like, launch a do-over, author a new ending. If you're upset with the way it went, which I was very upset, mostly with myself, see if you can go back and make the value shine through, or ask under slightly different circumstances. And that will always stay with me as a big shot that I'm glad I took.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  That's so good. There's so many things that we can pull from this. One of the things is, if if my mentality is, if I'm going down, I'm going down swinging, and I'm going down swinging as Kwame Christian, I'm not going to lose pretending to be somebody else. If you're going to reject someone, you're going to actually reject me. Because I I'd rather lose on my terms than win as somebody else, you know, and that it sounds like that was the thing that bothered you the most, because you you muted yourself in that audition, and you said, I didn't even I didn't even give myself a real chance. I gave somebody else was cosplaying.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Like, hybrid person. You're so right. And that's a beautiful mindset you're you're talking about. And and you use yourself about going down as the real you, and not some

• 45:48Speaker 01

  conformed, you know, you forming yourself into a pretzel you think other people will like. And yeah, it was such a lesson in that I would rather bring the quirk and the weird, the wonderful, that's when good things happen. And when you do it the other way, where you water things down, nobody wins. They don't win because they don't get to see the real you, and you don't win. You have zero satisfaction that you brought it.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  Yes. And Selena, this makes me wonder, it's sometimes, perhaps, that a bit of the imposter syndrome we feel is self-imposed. So we play the game, maybe even a game that we shouldn't even be playing, and then we have to pretend to be somebody else, and then we get the thing that we want. And now we're stuck pretending to be this random person we invented for this opportunity. And we feel like an imposter because we actually are.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  You're so right. And I think that's why there's a lot of disillusionment with corporate America today, and people feeling like I'm playing a game to advance and move up that I don't necessarily approve of, that doesn't necessarily align with my values, that I may not be intrinsically motivated to go after, but it's the environment I'm living in, you know, and I think you really nailed it, that it's like this imposter parfait of layers.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  The further you get away from yourself, the worse it is. And and so I love your kind of mandate to go down swinging as yourself, like, what a freeing and wonderful thought.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's a very, it's, it takes a lot of confidence. I wasn't always like this, for sure. But I realized that rejection isn't that bad, as long as I'm making sure I'm getting rejected by the right people for the right reasons. Because if I'm going to be 100% myself, and let me, let me say something briefly about authenticity, there are going to be different versions of ourselves that are authentic in different situations. So I can be authentically myself with my with my boys back from college, and authentic with my four-year-old, and they're very different people. It's not the same person, right? And so when if I'm taking an opportunity or trying to do something different, even

• 48:22Speaker 00

  if I'm going into a new environment, I'm going to craft an authentic version of myself for that environment. But if I'm going into that environment compromising in a visceral way where it doesn't feel comfortable, and I'm still trying to get an opportunity, then that is inauthentic ambition. And I'm curious for you, because when we look at your career, it's very unique. What is the through line for your authenticity and identity? And how does that shift authentically with time?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Wow, what a great question, and one that I've never been asked before. But that's such a great question. And I think the through line for me has been

• 49:08Speaker 01

  I wish I was less judgmental about my authentic self for a lot of my life. And I wish I had been willing to show that. Not even necessarily lead with it every moment, but to let that out and not have so many overthinking, ruminating thoughts about, is that enough? Is that okay? Is that too weird? Is that too strange a sense of humor to bring to this audience? And I wish I'd just brought it because when I think about some of the people I admire,

• 49:45Speaker 01

  the last word I would use to describe them is perfect.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  I don't go to a keynote and describe it as perfect. I don't meet a person and describe them as perfect. I, I use other words, right? Like, wow, they really touched me in their keynote. Or they shared stories I really related to.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  They were uplifting, you know, or meeting a new person. Wow, they seemed so genuine, or they seemed really interested in me, or we had a lot in common. And I think I didn't realize that for a long time. So it was prejudging who I am, almost beating people to the punch, and therefore like tamping that self down, you know? Oh, it's safer to give them the like Deloitte approved Navy Blazer Selena, you know, instead of the one with cockeyed optimism and a strange sense of humor and weird hobbies. You know what I mean?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  And now I'm like, wow, now that I'm in my late 40s, I'm like, life is too short for that. Life is so much more joyful when you embrace your, your weird, your wonderful, your interests. And people can think what they think.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  I, you know what's interesting? I feel like the happiest people each year start to care, care less about what people think. Have you noticed that?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Yes, I have. I absolutely have less apology, more freedom. And, and I like to think that they're a little more comfortable with other people doing them.

• 51:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  And a little less hung up on all the little things, less easily offended by every little thing from others and a little more,

• 51:56Speaker 01

  I think, accepting of, of how life and people can be. And just even as somebody approaching 50, not very long, there's an awareness that like you don't have forever. This is not your twenties when it just feels like this wide open canvas that's going to go on forever. There's some awareness, like, you know what? Let's make it count. You know, this is like finite time. Make it count with what you've got. And, and I, I'd like to think that's part of where that clear eyed, I need to care

• 52:37Speaker 01

  less about what they think about me because someone's always going to think something. I've learned that a lot, Kwame, and probably you have too as a creator, someone putting content out there. Like you might share your inner most vulnerable thing and someone will be like, you have weird eyes, you know?

• 52:59Speaker 01

  That happened to me.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Oh my God. You know what's funny? I don't know if this happened, you've had this experience, but we, we both had internet criticism. I remember I had one situation earlier this year. It's objectively hilarious because there was a clip that came out from a podcast where I told, it was in flow. So contextually, it made a lot of sense, but it was in flow. And I told this funny story about how I took a calculus two class when I didn't need to take a calculus two class and I was learning these things that would be irrelevant for me. And I said that there would, you know, we learn a bunch of irrelevant stuff, but we

• 53:42Speaker 00

  don't learn things like how to have difficult conversations, have tough conversations. Those aren't mandatory. They should be that type of stuff. And just because, and then I, I told the story later about like immediately after that about working with NASA engineers. But the, but the clip, that clip was me saying, oh, you know, I took calculus two and we learned something stupid. This stuff is irrelevant. And everybody who saw that, hundreds of thousands of views and thousands of comments, 100% negative. They're like, man, this dude hates math. This guy's anti math.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness, the math warriors came out.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  I was, I was thinking, hold on, you think I went on to this, this podcast?

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:29Speaker 00

  To, to talk about math being bad?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, to finally get it off your chest, right? And clear the air.

• 54:37Speaker 00

  It was so funny and it was so cartoonishly ridiculous that I used to, I used to really be concerned about the criticism I could potentially get online. And then when it happened in such a dumb way, I said, this, this is a silly way to living in fear of this nonsense. What are we doing? What are we doing? And I think as we get a little bit older, we start to care less about the things that don't matter. I think it's care and mattering because there are these things that happen and then like the judgment of other people. And as we're younger, we think this is, this has such a shaping impact on our lives. And depending on the circumstance, it could, but we often overestimate the impact of people's judgment or negative perceptions of us.

• 55:20Speaker 00

  And then we have, we, we live our life and we say, hold on, people have been judging me the whole time and I've been living my life. Why, why do I care about these things? There are other things that I care about, maybe gardening or something else.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  And then it liberates you to actually live a life that is according to your own design. Every year I swear that I'm going to get ahead of holiday shopping. This year it started with a Quince cashmere sweater that I bought for myself. It was so soft, so well made. And my first thought was, who else on my list needs one? Quince makes high quality staples with 100% Mongolian cashmere and Italian leather. And their cashmere sweaters start at just $60. All of it is 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. As a negotiator, I know a great deal when I see one. This is luxury quality without the luxury price tag. I use Quince and you should too. Give the gift of quality this season.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or just go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Kwame with big swings only. That's the best way to support the show. If you were going to take a big swing this holiday season and start a business, what would you build? Maybe it's that one idea that you can't stop thinking about. I've built a business from the ground up and I can tell you that the hard part isn't the idea, it's getting it live. That's where Shopify comes in. You can sell everywhere people shop, online, in person, across social media, even in AI chats.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  And Shopify checkout with shop pay converts up to 36% higher than the competition. So more of the people who show up actually buy. Plus, Black Friday is when more people are already shopping and ready to buy. So the sooner you're live, the better. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/Kwame to start your free trial. That's Shopify.com/Kwame. Go to Shopify.com/Kwame to hear your first.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I, I think that's so smart and I think you're right. I think it also goes back to the finding esteem in yourself from multiple roles, whether that is friend, professional, partner to someone, dad, mom, you know? So that you're not one thing, you know? Because if your identity is hanging on something external, which I've been there, I have certainly been there, it just takes one bad week, you know, to knock you off your, your game and your sense of like groundedness, that's not sustainable, you know?

• 58:13Speaker 01

  So I, I think there is some joy and freedom in saying, you can hate what I did. And like, by the way, some of my haters are sometimes right and I do appreciate that. Or critics will point something out like I, you didn't think of this angle of it. And I'm like, you're right. Like you are making me smarter.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  You know, but then there's always those, you have weird eyes people. And that, that's just always going to be there. And I think there's a beautiful quote.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  That's just like, you can be the juiciest, most ripest peach and somebody will be like, I hate peaches. So like, there's some, there's something about accepting that. That like, just like you and I probably tell our kids, like, oh, it's okay if you don't click with everyone. Like, not everyone is for you and you're not for everyone. And it's kind of the same.

• 59:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, when I was writing my last book, I saw the, um, I wanted to make a point about how perspectives can shift significantly with time. And I said, well, and they did a study and I'm going to butcher these numbers, um, but just conceptually, they are accurate. Right? So the, the approximation, Martin Luther King Jr. Had an approval rating when he was alive of like forty percent, thirty percent, something like that. And now he has an approval rating of about ninety-three percent. And I was going to make the point of, how far have we come? And then I said to myself, who are these seven percent?

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 00

  And, and I say, if, if Martin Luther King Jr., like people like Gandhi or, uh, Mother Teresa, these folks, Abraham Lincoln, if these people don't have one hundred percent approval ratings, what chance does a mere mortal like me have? So there are going to be people who don't like it. And then also going back to it, you, this is all rooted in humility, where if there is legitimate feedback, we can incorporate that and then make the adjustment. Cause it's not about us being higher than thou, or just inaccessible to, to criticism. It's about, we have to conceptualize it and not let that fear of criticism hold us back from taking the big swing and living our life the, the way that we want to live it.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're so right. And I think sometimes we get wrong ideas in our heads. I know when I started public speaking, I, uh, you know, felt young at the time because I was in my twenties and I almost felt like I needed to make up for that, like it was a liability a little bit. So I acted extra expert-ish. And like really wore that suit, like armor and didn't let them see my soft underbelly. And it was such a mistake. I would like take that person and say, like, your stories are what make you you. Don't be afraid to tell the pie in the face story where you were embarrassed

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  or the, the story that is a great illustration of gender and leadership, um, tell it. But I think so many of us walk around thinking, my ideas, my stories aren't special enough. Like, you know, just because most of us don't think that. And I think that the thing is they don't always need to be special. I think they need to be relatable and connecting.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  You know, you could be talking about, uh, communication with your team and like, tell them a story about your Uber driver in you and how you had a miscommunication. Like, you know, it's not that it needs to be some perfect thing. If anything, I think people will appreciate it when it's not, when it's got rough edges or it's, oh yeah, I've done that. I've been on a ride that's totally going the wrong way or hesitated to speak up or any of these things.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  So I, I think there's something to be said for turning down that inner critic of, I don't have enough, I, you know, this isn't helpful enough. And as we've been talking about this whole time, getting in there and trying it, trusting that I have just as good a shot as anyone else.

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. And that, that last part is so encouraging too, where you say, why not me? That was, it's such a powerful question where you say, oh, I, I, somebody should do this or somebody could do this. Well, why not me? Right? And, and when you ask that and you realize there aren't any real good answers, then you get to a point where you say, well, now I almost have no excuse to, to not take this shot. But then the one thing that keeps us held back is fear. And then the opposite side is a lack of courage or confidence. And so in your experience, because it's not just that you have been an exemplar of this

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  and modeled this for so many people, but you also coach people and teach people how to advocate for themselves, how to make big changes in their career and take risks. How do you coach somebody to become more courageous to actually do the thing?

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Well, so one is the, the win or learn mindset. Let's de-center failure for a minute and think about some of the gains we're likely to get. I think one of them is, um,

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  changing how you view the fall. If you, things were to go sideways or you mess up. Um, and I, I teach people, think of yourself having a writing reflex, like a cat. Right? If they fall out of, you know, two-story window, um, maybe they fell out on their back. What do they do midair? They write themselves and they end up landing on their feet. And it's, it's the same way for each of us.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Can you be ready for every possible twist and turn and setback that could come your way? No, neither is the cat. But you can trust, I have the problem solving chops to deal with things as they come. So guess what? I don't need to have the entire thing figured out, unlocked, perfectly understood. You know, I think that when we take big swings, we have to make peace with the fact that I'm never going to have perfect information on the problem I'm trying to solve. I'm always going to be working with like limited data, most likely.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Partial information, um, half the instructions. Sometimes we're even like putting a puzzle together and it's two different puzzles and there's missing pieces, right? And I think having some tolerance for that messy part is, is important, but also affirming yourself. Like that's to me what the writing reflex is. I may not have every answer. That's okay. I do trust that I can problem solve, uh, as best as I can in the moment. And guess what? That's how most of us have made it through life and have gotten this far. So you're already doing this.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  Right. This is so powerful because as soon as you said it, it, it became obvious. But I heard this quote, the, the sign of a brilliant insight is that it seems obvious in hindsight. And, and that's what we have here because you, me, everybody listening to this show, we have one thing in common. And it's the fact that we have a one hundred percent survival rate of all of life's challenges. And I can't think of one thing that I've done where I got it perfectly right the first time. And then I let the fear of not being perfect or failing hold me back like it's, like it's killed me before. No, we can.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Right. That's true.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  Of course, correct. We do it all the time.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you could almost argue it's more painful to talk yourself out completely. You know, that, that idea that like regret is a really prickly companion. It, it's a painful thing to have regret. And I would argue more painful than a rejection that you had to put a Band-Aid on for a little while and some Neosporin, but healed and you, you moved on and you got over it. Regret is, I think, one fear I am willing to have is I, I don't want to have a lot of regrets.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  And, um, one little tip I give people, a confidence tip is just, if you're wanting to do something, hit submit on a job application. Nominate yourself for a scholarship or some recognition. Recruit your body, you know, sometimes it, it sounds kind of hokey, but like, tell your fingers to type the, you know, the, the words and hit submit.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Enlist your body because your brain will catch up. And sometimes your brain is in like that protective vigilant mode. Sometimes your body can, can do what you can't. And, and just a quick example of that, I was lucky, I live here in Philadelphia and, uh, I was invited to this like very cool women in leadership event. And I felt so honored. I was pretty young at the time and there was a lot of bigwigs there. I was excited to meet. And for whatever reason, I just like could not get into a group in this networking event. Like I remember going up to a duo and asking them about them, striking up conversation.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  And they were like, uh, can we get back to talking to each other now? And I was like, ugh. And I realized in that moment, Kwame, like, everything in my body was like, shrink up, Selena, let's kind of stand against the wall and.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  You know, minimize our presence. And, and in that moment, I had to kind of recruit my body and say, I don't feel very much like I belong here right now. But I am not gonna fall into that. And I kind of said to my body, body, take up space. Plant your feet like you belong here. Stand up straight like you belong here. Go help yourself to a plate of food. And if you bump into some people, have some conversation with them. But like, you're not gonna shut down because some external stimulus, data, people,

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  you know, might be minimizing you or just, I don't know, having a bad day. And it doesn't feel so good. You know, I think in those moments, we have the chance to either say, okay, you're right about me. Or, no, thank you. Like, you don't have the last word on this evening. I'm gonna,

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  I'm gonna act like I do belong and like I earned my ticket as much as you did.

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  Incredible. This is, it's so powerful. And Selena, I wish I heard this part of the episode when I was younger, because I distinctly remember a similar situation and I did not respond like you. I went to the bathroom like thirty-five times.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Right. I don't believe you at all. I do not believe you. It's the hard thing to overcome, especially as a young or like more inexperienced person. And by the way, just a quick, like ally thing, just a kind person thing, I think all of us can do is to go out of our way to like, be the first to welcome the new person. Or, you know, hey, you're new at the company. Would you like to come to lunch? Or you see somebody nervously walk up to your group at a networking event. Here, let me make some room for you. You know, it's such a small thing for us, but like, man, for the receiver,

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  it can mean everything. So, good prompt. If, if you haven't felt so good in those situations, you can be the opposite for someone. You can like warmly bring them into the fold.

• 1:11:29Speaker 00

  Powerful. This is powerful. Selena, I could talk to you about this forever. This is great. And I appreciate you coming on and sharing this, this different aspect of your thought leadership. Because I see you talking about leadership and confidence, and it's always so great. And I al- I also know there's a story behind it too. And so I'm glad we got to hear your story too.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. You are brilliant. You are my favorite LinkedIn instructor and just one of my favorite creators. Like, I'm always so happy when you come up on my page and my feed. And, and thank you for creating this forum. You're so good at it.

• 1:12:09Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you. And listen, before you go, remind the listeners about how they can work with you. And you can shout out all of the books. Let's flex on them, Selena.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Thank you. Yeah. So I, um, I can be found at my website, which is selenarezvani.com. And I also create content, video content, five days a week on TikTok and Instagram and LinkedIn. And that is also under Selena Rezvani. So please jump in, say hello, comment, and let me know what you think, or what workplace issues you want to hear a little bit more about. And you can find my books, Quick Leadership is the most recent one that we've been touching on today. There's also Quick Confidence for someone who needs that hit of quick confidence in their mindset, their body language.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  And those are available at Amazon, anywhere books are sold. So, reach out, let me know what you think. I'm always excited to hear people's feedback.

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Thank you, Kwame.