Trail Tales 75

Today’s stories include traumatizing children, urns in odd places and a day of the grizzlies. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! Listen to Watch Her Cook on Apple and Spotify! Follow us on InstagramFor a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! Coyuchi: Get 15% off when you visit Coyuchi.com/npad. Graza: Add Graza Olive Oil to your summertime patio party arsenal. Visit https://graza.co/NPAD and use promo code NPAD today for 10% off of the TRIO! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 1:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. You're listening to a Trail Tales episode today.

• 1:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, tales from the trail and probably a bunch of other places because we don't have rules anymore.

• 1:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is so true. Well, let's hop into it because we have, you all wrote in a bunch of really cool stories that we're excited to share today. Would you like to go first?

• 1:38Danielle LaRock?

  Sure.

• 1:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or would you like me to go first?

• 1:40Danielle LaRock?

  I can go first. Why not?

• 1:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool.

• 1:42Danielle LaRock?

  I'm feeling crazy. Alright, so my first story is titled Ghost Wars: A Discipline Technique. "Hey ladies, I love the pod and have been listening for several years now and am a proud outsider. I appreciate the work and dedication you put into each episode. I recently finished the Harpers Ferry Ghost Tour episode and wanted to share about a ghost tour I went on as a child. I am the child of two huge history buffs. Family vacations were most often spent exploring historical landmarks, which were an easy drive from our New Hampshire home. I was also a very superstitious and supernatural-loving child, which made many of these places extremely stressful for me. I distinctly remember my dad taking my brother and I into Salem While he was working on a project in college and being told that I had to behave

• 2:27Danielle LaRock?

  or he would set the witches on me. There I was, barely tall enough to peek over the window into the backseat, sure that the witches would be on me the second I stepped out of line. I feel like this was a consistent trend throughout childhood with insert supernatural creature here, so behave I did. One year, our family travels took us to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Now, my parents love this place. They literally have a shrine in their house with all Gettysburg-related memorabilia, bullets, coins, belt buckles, etc. On this particular trip, I was maybe 10 years old and we spent the day exploring the battlefield and learning all about the ghosts that haunted them. First of all, this feels like a great idyllic childhood to me. And my nightmare.

• 3:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's true. We then made our way to the Jenny Wade House, which is famous for a wall where you can photograph, quote, "an actual ghost." Insert me with my 2004 digital camera and clenched eyes taking a photo. For some reason, my parents decided we needed to end the day with a walking ghost tour of the local college, where they were actively digging up bodies from the Battle of Gettysburg during campus construction. Yay. After a day of ghosts, I was frightened and could hardly handle the stories. With every turn, I swore I saw or felt something. I was terrified. Then came the story of the blue boy. At one point in time, a young boy sought refuge from abuse at what was then a girl's school on a cold winter's night.

• 3:58Danielle LaRock?

  He found his way into the dormitory, and when the headmistress did her rounds, the girls had no choice but to hide the boy on the windowsill to avoid being caught and disciplined. Much time passed and the girls were finally able to let the boy back in, only to find that he was gone. Now, all that is left of the boy is a blue glowing light and the words "Help me" scrawled on the window. It is said that he still haunts the hall. As we listened to the story, my dad tapped me on the shoulder and told me to look up at the window. A blue glowing light was shining, and honestly, I think I blacked out from fear after that. Safe to say, I was on my very best behavior for the rest of that trip because I didn't want the ghost to mess with me.

• 4:39Danielle LaRock?

  As an adult, I spoke with my dad about all of these supernatural disciplinary techniques, which he, of course, denies because that blue boy ghost, nothing but the blue light of a college student's TV. And then it just abruptly ends. Sign off, nothing, that's it.

• 4:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Those TVs will get you.

• 4:59Danielle LaRock?

  I just love that, like supernatural disciplinarian techniques, I think are great. This person never forgot that.

• 5:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  True, I mean.

• 5:07Danielle LaRock?

  Stayed in line.

• 5:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  2004, the story's from.

• 5:10Danielle LaRock?

  Well, and it reminds me so much of the episode you did way back about Spearfinger. And that was more like indigenous teachings of kind of like, you better behave or else somebody's gonna get you.

• 5:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Same vein, though.

• 5:23Danielle LaRock?

  It is, right?

• 5:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  The witches.

• 5:27Danielle LaRock?

  They're gonna get you.

• 5:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, my story is also a little haunted. Mine is titled, Touched by a Ghost. Hi, Cassie and Danielle. I'm a huge fan of the pod. You are my entertainment when I'm on my walks or long nights editing wedding galleries. I haven't had much happen to me on the trails, but when I heard the episode about family lore, I couldn't resist. I grew up in upstate New York, tucked deep in the woods where the neighbors weren't visible through the trees and the nights got really dark. My childhood was nothing out of the ordinary. Barefoot summers, tree climbing, hours spent exploring the woods with my sisters. Life was simple and sweet. As part of my birthday gift, I was finally getting my own big girl room. Up until then, I had shared a downstairs bedroom with one of my two sisters, but now

• 6:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was moving upstairs, my own space, something I had been excited about for weeks. We spent the day carrying my things up, decorating and arranging everything just the way I wanted. I felt grown up, proud and a little nervous, but mostly excited. That night went just like every other. Brushed my teeth, got into pajamas, said goodnight to my mom. She turned off the light, shut the door behind her, and I nestled into bed buzzing with that feeling of first night excitement. At some point in the night, I woke up. I can't say what it was, but I remember lying there feeling strangely restless. I glanced across the room towards the corner of my closet, and that's when I saw her. An old woman sat in a rocking chair I didn't own, slowly moving back and forth. Her dark hair hung long and unkempt.

• 6:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  And she wore an old tiny dress and a brooch like something out of the 1800s. She was just sitting there staring directly at me. I froze, then did the only thing my terrified little brain could manage. I shut my eyes tight, rolled to face the wall and pulled the covers up to my chin. I wanted her to be gone. I needed her to be gone. But before I could process anything else, I felt her. A cold, bony hand gripped my arm, thin fingers wrapped around it and with a firm icy pressure. I was paralyzed. It wasn't sleep paralysis. I was awake, fully aware and too terrified to scream or move. The sensation lasted what felt like a minute, though it could have been 10 seconds or an hour.

• 7:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Then, nothing. Eventually, I fell back to sleep. I never said a word to anyone, but after that night, everything upstairs felt different. There was a weight to the air, especially at night. I avoided playing in my room unless I absolutely had to. I'd run up to grab something and rush back down like my life depended on it. I never saw her again, but her presence lingered. I knew she had been there. I knew she was real. Fast forward seven years. We had moved to Ohio and I was in my first year of high school. My mom was driving me and my sisters home from school one day when the topic of ghosts came up. How? I can't exactly remember. My sisters were teasing each other and joking around, but I casually said, "Well, I believe in ghosts because I've seen one." One touched me. Everything in the car went silent.

• 8:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  "What?" my mom asked, her voice suddenly serious. "When?" "The first night in my room back home," I said. "I saw a ghost, an old woman. She was sitting in a rocking chair and she touched my arm." My mom's face went pale. "Wait," she said, "did Grammy tell you?" "Tell me what?" I asked, the pit in my stomach forming instantly. "Now, here's something you need to understand. My mom isn't the kind of person who cannot lie. She laughs when she fibs, can't hold a poker face to save her life. But this time, she was dead serious. No smile, no sarcasm. She took a breath and said, 'That room used to be mine.'" The first night I ever stayed in it, I saw an old woman with long dark hair and an old dress with a brooch, sitting in a rocking chair in the corner by the closet. I was speechless.

• 9:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  We both started yelling, "Are you serious? You never told me that. You're sure grandma didn't tell you? You're sure grandma didn't tell you?" But we knew. This wasn't something we made up, or something passed down in stories. We had experienced it separately, in the exact same room. We agreed not to tell anyone else in the family. Our younger cousins would have been terrified, but the curiosity ate at me. I needed to know more, so I started digging. And that's when I found her. Esperance, New York. The little town where I grew up is home to a local legend, the Esperance Witch. I had never heard of her before. My mom hadn't either, but sure enough, close to where my grandparents built their house, there had once stood a small cabin that belonged to a French immigrant woman who had two young children.

• 9:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  According to local lore, she was accused of witchcraft, shot with a silver bullet, and buried next to a tree. That tree still stands. So do I believe in ghosts? Yeah. One sat in the corner of my room and wrapped her icy fingers around my arm. I didn't need a silver bullet or a Ouija board to believe, just one sleepless night and a story my mom never thought she'd have to tell. And even now, all these years later, I still can't sleep with my closet door open. Since then, the house has been sold and we have told the unsuspecting new owners nothing. She even has a historical marker in town. I have a few more family lore stories I can't wait to share with you guys, from premonitions to signs from beyond the grave. But for now, enjoy the view, but watch your back, or else a ghost might touch you. All the love, Maddie.

• 10:35Danielle LaRock?

  Ooh, it's always super creepy when you can get like historic backup.

• 10:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  When it's real, and it's not just, it's extra creepy when there's some truth behind it.

• 10:46Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and when other people validate your experience with their own separate.

• 10:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, exact same experience that your mom also had also. She put you in that room that night and was like, "Good luck."

• 10:58Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, she's like, "Hopefully this doesn't happen to you too. What are the odds?"

• 11:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  What are the odds? Seems, well, pretty high, actually.

• 11:05Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, guess so.

• 11:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'll say it once, I'll say it a thousand more times, ghosts do.

• 11:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not touch me.

• 11:11Danielle LaRock?

  You're doing good so far.

• 11:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  I am doing good so far. I think I put out an energy whenever I know I'm in a place that has spirits. I'm always like, we're both here. I respect you. Don't touch me.

• 11:24Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I will say, if I remember correctly, didn't you say Ian hugged you once?

• 11:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  He, yeah, he did.

• 11:31Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 11:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's different, though. That was a welcome one.

• 11:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Danielle LaRock?

  He's allowed.

• 11:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes. Yes, I'm not scared. I was not in a scary circumstance whatsoever.

• 11:44Danielle LaRock?

  Right, yeah.

• 11:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was okay.

• 11:46Danielle LaRock?

  Strangers, get out of here.

• 11:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Strangers, get out of here. Cold icy fingers wrapped around my arm? No.

• 11:52Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 11:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 11:57Speaker 05

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• 12:27Danielle LaRock?

  All right. Well, my next story is titled Day of the Grizzlies.

• 12:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, Day of the Grizzlies.

• 12:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I thought we were safe during the day.

• 12:36Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you can be the judge. Hey, Cassie and Danielle, my name is Kelsey and I live in Colorado and I wanted to share with you the story of my encounter with a grizzly bear. In 2022, I went on a solo trip to Montana. This wasn't necessarily planned initially as a solo trip, but my boyfriend and I had broken up before the trip could happen and I couldn't find any friends to join me, so a solo trip it was. The main focus of the trip was a four-day backpacking loop in Glacier. Once I made it to the park, I fell in love. I had briefly been in the park before and just drove the Going to the Sun Road, but spending time hiking to Crocker. First and later taking in the views along the backpacking route, this park quickly became my favorite.

• 13:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  I see why.

• 13:18Danielle LaRock?

  This wasn't my first solo backpacking trip, but it was my first time solo in grizzly country. I know it's generally not recommended to hike alone in these places, but I had my bear spray and maybe too much confidence. I also had a lottery permit and was determined.

• 13:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  We saw a ton of solo backpackers when we were in.

• 13:37Danielle LaRock?

  I know, and it made me nervous.

• 13:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 13:39Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, I was already kind of nervous.

• 13:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  We know the stories that come out of there.

• 13:43Danielle LaRock?

  It's like when you know, you know, and.

• 13:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  You can't unknow.

• 13:46Danielle LaRock?

  You can't unknow what you know.

• 13:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Danielle LaRock?

  You know?

• 13:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, yeah, I know.

• 13:51Danielle LaRock?

  The backpacking trip, hands down, was the most beautiful one I've ever been on. Every day, I hiked past pristine lakes, glaciers, and jagged mountain peaks. I was mainly on my own when hiking, only passing a handful of people each day. It was made worse by the fact that maintenance of the trails had fallen to the wayside during COVID, and on either side of me for long stretches of time was tall, dense brush. At night, I camped in the shared backcountry campsites and met some really interesting people. While I did see some wildlife, I really didn't see a ton. I saw a black bear the first day, who didn't even acknowledge me, but otherwise, it was mainly deer and birds. I was actually a little bummed when it came to the final day and I hadn't seen any grizzlies. I didn't

• 14:33Danielle LaRock?

  have too much hiking left when I made it to the Granite Park Chalet. I stopped by, saw a sign saying it was closed except to guests due to COVID, and was on my way, making a mental note that it looked like a nice place to stay in the future.

• 14:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  It is.

• 14:48Danielle LaRock?

  I went up and over a hill and ended up at the base of a series of switchbacks, maybe a third of a mile away from the chalet. We've been there, Swift Current, Swift Current lookout.

• 14:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep.

• 14:58Danielle LaRock?

  Coming out from the trees, far away, was a grizzly bear. Finally, I thought to myself, as I took my backpack off and pulled out a bunch of things to get my camera. I snapped a couple of quick pictures of the bear because it seemed to be minding its own business. After all, it was really far away, and it wasn't walking towards me. Except, it was. Although the bear wasn't making a beeline directly towards me. It was getting closer, sort of walking in a diagonal. Pretty quickly, it had gone from far away to too close for comfort. Now, a bunch of my things were on the ground, next to my backpack, including food. If the bear started running towards me, I wouldn't be able to grab everything in time. I couldn't just leave my backpack there either and risk the bear getting into the food, so I decided I had to stay where I was.

• 15:42Danielle LaRock?

  So, I pulled out my bear spray just in case, and in that moment, I realized the bear was no longer walking at a diagonal. It was walking towards me. I dropped my camera and immediately regretted not packing my things up earlier, but now it was definitely too late. I took the safety off the bear spray and grabbed my trekking poles, waving them above my head. I yelled at the bear to go away, but it was getting closer and closer. I realized I sounded like I was talking to a child, which I don't think intimidated the bear at all. When the bear was about thirty feet away, it charged me. I sprayed some of my bear spray at its feet, and right away, it turned and ran in the other direction. The other direction that I needed to walk to get back to my car. I was relieved for about three seconds, until the back spray of the spray made its way to me.

• 16:27Danielle LaRock?

  I was lucky it wasn't a windy day, because even with the relative stillness, my eyes and throat burned. I drank some water and flushed out my eyes with eye drops. I had seen where the bear went off to, and it was pretty far, so I figured I would wait until some people came by and hike with them. About ten minutes later, a group of three came by the direction of the chalet, and I told them what happened and hiked behind them. We passed some people going the other direction who mentioned seeing a grizzly as well, but it was definitely a different one from their description. It turned away when it saw them, too. Eventually, the people I was hiking with turned off at a junction, and I was by myself again, so I just sang whatever song I could think of, knowing one or two bears were around. Soon enough, I came upon a different bear. This one was pretty young.

• 17:11Danielle LaRock?

  Who took one look at me and ran further off down the trail. Eventually it went into the trees and disappeared. When I made it back to the trailhead, I stopped in the ranger station and told them what happened, then drove to my campsite for the night. I was ready to get back to Colorado at this point. The next day, when I had service, I called my best friend and told her about what happened. And she was surprised, but she told me about your podcast and an episode I should listen to. You shouldn't be surprised that that episode was the night of the grizzlies. I gave it a listen and that's when I realized two things that stuck with me. First, how close I was to the Granite Park Chalet. And second was the date. The day that bear charged me was August 12th, the same day of the bear attacks. So it was strange.

• 17:53Danielle LaRock?

  I tell myself the odds are it was just a bluff charge and just a grumpy grizzly that wanted me out of its space. But knowing what had happened in that area years ago on that day definitely stuck with me. So that's my story of my bear encounter. Enjoy the view, carry bear spray and maybe don't take out your camera to take pictures of a grizzly until you know for sure it's not walking towards you. Kelsey.

• 18:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, what a story, especially we can relate to that so much right now because we were not far from where you are when we saw a sow and two cubs. And it didn't bluff charge us. They were actually playing in the snow and having a grand old time. And we got out of there pretty quickly. We didn't observe for very long, um, just because she did notice us, but man, I mean, to be alone.

• 18:39Danielle LaRock?

  She was, it scared me pretty bad. I mean, just because, not that she was making any sort of like threatening behaviors or anything, but like they were playing in the snow and kind of like doing their own thing. And of course they had like noticed us, she had at least noticed us. And then like all of a sudden she just stopped and just like sat up and like just stared at us. And was like,

• 19:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  She was getting on her like hind legs and she was standing like she's very curious of what was, and she was trying to get a better view of us. And I think at that point we were both like, you don't need a better view of us. We're gonna leave. We know what happens here. It's like, we are not a threat. We are not a threat.

• 19:20Danielle LaRock?

  It's just so interesting because it seems based on this description around the same exact spot.

• 19:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it does. But when we were there, there was a lot of bear activity right on that trail. They, they had seen four bears. And we saw three. So

• 19:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 19:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's a, it seems like a popular spot and I get it. I mean, it's so far in the back country. And just to get there, we had to hike eight miles almost just to be there. So.

• 19:44Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, cool. So, um, yeah, brave to hike solo.

• 19:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Very brave. Glad you're okay. Glad you knew exact. It sounds like you also, props to you. It sounds like you know exactly what to do. And the event that you're charged by a brown bear because you, you didn't harm the bear. It sounds like even though you deployed your bear spray, you aimed at their feet. You did it right as you needed to. You took the safety off. You got out of there. You kept your distance at the best you could. You know, I mean, applaud to you because it sounds like you did everything you could in a tough situation. And both you and the bear left unscathed, which is the most important.

• 20:23Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 20:28Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 21:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool. My next story is titled "An Urn and Some Raccoons." Hey ladies, I will join the chorus in singing the praises for you all and the podcast. You all have certainly opened my eyes to places I didn't know I wanted to travel. I currently work as a ranger for a county in Colorado and as many outdoor workers, I too have many stories, but I thought you all, specifically Danielle, would enjoy this one. In 2017, I had just landed my first seasonal gig in a state park in Colorado as an interpretive ranger, mainly leading school groups on educational hikes, but also patrolling the trails, making sure everyone was doing what they were supposed to do. One afternoon, it was getting close to time to close the park down, and I was the only ranger on duty at the time.

• 22:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I went for a hike on one of our trails, enjoying the solitude of the park as there weren't any cars in the parking lot. I am about three-fourths of a mile from the end of the hike when I turn a corner and find an urn full of ashes sitting in the middle of the trail. Not off to the side or tucked into a bush, but in the freaking middle of the trail, like a tripping hazard. The urn was simplistic, a nice gold color with a plaque where one's name should be, but it was extremely worn and unreadable. Being my first season as a ranger, I didn't know what to do in this situation. There wasn't exactly a "when you find an urn" section in our training manual. I won't lie, I briefly considered that the cops would have to come and take a look at the scene, and I was not going to be the one to ruin a crime scene. Being I was the only ranger on, I decided to wait until the next morning

• 23:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  when my boss was in to ask what I should do. Fast forward to the next morning where I brought up what I found to the boss. He hands me some medical gloves and a plastic grocery store bag and tells me to go pick it up. So I start my hike down the trail to go pick up the urn. When I got there, I found the lid of the urn popped open and the bag with the ashes torn at the top. Some of the ashes were sprinkled around the urn, and I could see little paw prints on the ground and on the urn. From what I could tell, at least one raccoon had broken into the urn to investigate what was left in their home. I stood there for a moment horrified that since I left the urn there the night before, someone's ashes were now consumed by a raccoon. Then came the laughter, because someone's ashes were consumed by a raccoon.

• 24:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  After running through the drastically different emotions, I put the medical gloves on, pushed the bag with the ashes back into the urn, closed the lid and put it in the grocery bag. Walking back to the visitor's center, I was just hoping I wasn't going to run into any hiker who'd want to ask what the hell I was carrying with medical gloves on. For the second time in this situation, I didn't know what to do with this urn. So again, I went to my boss and asked for some direction. First, we looked to see if we could find any identifying features for who this was or what place did the cremation. With no luck, my boss tells me to just throw the ashes away in the dumpster out back. I didn't feel great about this option, but what else were we supposed to do? As I am walking out to the dumpster, my boss stops me and says, "Well, it is technically lost and found,

• 24:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  so let's put it in the cabinet with all the other lost and found items." If I remember right, I put the urn in the cabinet where there were some water bottles, a few hats, your typical sweatshirt, and some cart, and some board games like Monopoly. The cabinet got cleaned out every six months or so, and by that time I was done with my season at this park. I'm not sure as what to happen to the urn and the ashes. I love telling this story as urns are not a common thing to find on the trail. I just hope that the visitor's center is now haunted by this person, but as a nice, friendly ghost who is willing to give a good trail recommendation. Enjoy the view, but please don't leave your loved ones' urns on the trail for raccoons to break into. Best, Lindsay.

• 25:32Danielle LaRock?

  What a thing to find. I would love stories about weird things that people have found outside.

• 25:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Another request.

• 25:38Danielle LaRock?

  Another request. But yeah, I think that one's like kind of pertinent because we get stories a lot about people either finding or like wanting to leave loved ones out in nature.

• 25:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Usually people spread the ashes.

• 25:53Danielle LaRock?

  Right. I know. Well, that's why I'm like, it seems weird to have it be just placed in the middle of a trail.

• 26:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 26:01Danielle LaRock?

  Like, that seems...

• 26:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  And is it a big urn or a small urn? I'm imagining...

• 26:05Danielle LaRock?

  Is it a pet? Is it a human?

• 26:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. I'm imagining, so Al has a urn that he carries his father's ashes in, and he has, they have a big urn that has most of his ashes, but he has a really small one that he carries around wherever he goes. And what I'm imagining in this situation is that maybe someone else had something similar, if this is a small urn, or maybe it's a big urn. But if someone else has a similar situation where they just carry their loved one wherever they go and maybe just stopped for lunch there and took them out and like said something, you know, like to be like, I think you would love it here.

• 26:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 26:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, I'm just imagining someone bringing an urn somewhere, or maybe they spread some of their ashes there and then accidentally left it, but.

• 26:49Danielle LaRock?

  But I feel like if that was the case, they would have come back for it.

• 26:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, maybe they didn't know they left it there, or maybe they just have more, I don't know. Or maybe they're just like, I think you would like to be here. Plop.

• 27:01Danielle LaRock?

  There you go.

• 27:03Danielle LaRock?

  Enjoy. Yeah, no, I think I'm like envisioning it kind of like a little bit larger, just because the base of the description of like paw prints on it and like it's kind of all scattered. It's not just like this little thing because I know exactly what you're talking about because I'm pretty sure I've seen what you're describing Al in particular, because I think he brought that to Peru.

• 27:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, he did.

• 27:27Danielle LaRock?

  So I know exactly what you're talking about and I I envision it a little bigger and also having morbid, but having handled both Ian, my partner and my dad's urns and cremains. A human, a whole human cremains is like very large.

• 27:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Danielle LaRock?

  And then obviously having blues like a dog's and then obviously because we have experience with that with pets.

• 27:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Smaller.

• 27:52Danielle LaRock?

  It just seems like small. I don't know.

• 27:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like maybe it was someone's pet that they left there.

• 27:57Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. It could be anybody, uh, but the point is, I guess, like, I totally get wanting to like spread or leave pieces of your loved ones out in places you think that they would enjoy. I'm not exactly sure about like the legality around that. I know people do that all the time in Fenway. Did you know that?

• 28:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  In Fenway Park?

• 28:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, they'll like sprinkle. Yeah. And like, it's not, I don't think it's legal.

• 28:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I didn't know people did that.

• 28:23Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 28:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  I've done it at Hampton Beach before.

• 28:26Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, like I know the ocean's a big place.

• 28:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cause the ocean's like a big place for it. I get spreading ashes. I think that there's something pretty about doing that, uh, and a really nice sentiment, but I've never heard of just leaving an all, a whole.

• 28:43Danielle LaRock?

  Well, and especially like if there's like the plaque is kind of worn and like it just seems

• 28:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Very ominous.

• 28:49Danielle LaRock?

  It is ominous. It feels like something that is probably really sweet and sentimental just feels ominous because of the placement.

• 28:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I can't believe your boss just said to throw it in the trash immediately.

• 29:01Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 29:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 29:02Danielle LaRock?

  I'm glad that was changed.

• 29:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Oh, my God. Imagine you left your urn for a day and you call back and they're like, sorry, we threw it in the trash.

• 29:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's not.

• 29:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's how you get a lawsuit real quick.

• 29:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 29:22Speaker 06

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• 29:54Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, um, let's switch gears. My last story is titled, How I Tra- How I Accidentally Traumatized My Two and a Half Year Old.

• 30:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's really funny, because my next story is titled, I Bear Sprayed My Three-Year-Old On The Fourth Of July.

• 30:11Danielle LaRock?

  It's the same story.

• 30:14Danielle LaRock?

  We'll find out. Okay. Hi, Cassie and Danielle. My name is Haley. I've been a listener and a fan for over two years now. I love you guys. Own my very own NPA t-shirt. Recommend you to basically everyone I meet. And now that I finally made it through listening to all of your earlier episodes, I hope to become a Patreon member soon so I can start making my way through those episodes. Oh, and I just started listening to Watcher Cook. Anyway.

• 30:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Our other podcast.

• 30:39Danielle LaRock?

  You're an MVP. Anyway, I have been wanting to submit a trail tale for a while. I've been debating about writing in about getting engaged on the Beehive Trail in Acadia, or almost getting stranded at the top of Mount Washington after hiking to the top. Maybe someday I'll write those in, too. However, the episode I just started listening to, episode 308, when you were talking about shows like Zaboomafu and other family-friendly shows on Animal Planet, it sparked a very recent and still ongoing memory for me about how I accidentally traumatized my two-and-a-half-year-old. Although this story doesn't place, take place outdoors, I still hope it makes you smile. My son, Odin, is a pretty sensitive kid. He can be a bit cautious, but loves nature and in particular loves fishes, as he calls them.

• 31:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fishes?

• 31:25Danielle LaRock?

  He has loved going to the Mystic Aquarium ever since his first visit at six months old. Side note, Danielle, they took out the Titanic exhibit. I know, I'm heartbroken too. The Mystic Aquarium is in Connecticut and New England people know about this place. Well, knowing his love for all water creatures, when I noticed that he was really enjoying watching the fish on the Roku screensaver, I thought he might like watching a show or movie about real fish. Now, it's pretty close to bedtime at this point and I'm thinking, hey, if he likes this, then Ocean documentaries could be a great alternative to something like Bluey or Sesame Street. Knowing that Disney Plus merged with National Geographic, I figured I could probably find something there that should be relatively mild.

• 32:08Danielle LaRock?

  And if any feeding scenes came on, I could fast forward through those two, right? Plus, he's seen feeding time at the aquarium, so how could, how bad could this be?

• 32:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  National Geographic goes hard.

• 32:20Danielle LaRock?

  Uh, yeah, it's not safe for anyone. Without really reading the description, I decided Ocean with Dave and Attenborough should be a fine choice. I pushed play and the first 20-ish minutes are exactly what I'm looking for. Nice images of reefs and the seafloor along with their animal inhabitants. Then the movie takes a turn, trawling. A sudden image of a reef turned into a barren wasteland. Fishies hurt, I hear Odin comment. Crap, do I take away his innocence now? I try explaining that people are trying to make it better, to help the fishies. But he's two and he doesn't get that yet. So I try lying instead. The fish aren't hurt, their home is hurt. He's still not buying it.

• 33:04Danielle LaRock?

  I try to fast forward to a nicer part. Usually there is some glimmer of hope that comes next in these types of shows. Or at least they move on to a new topic. I stop at what looks like a safe part. Wrong. Next thing we see is a live action shot of a trawler absolutely tearing apart a coral reef. Fishies hurt, I hear Odin say again, and of course, now it's bath time. As he's playing with his fishing boat in the tub, oh, the irony. He continues to tell me, fishies hurt in a sad and concerned little voice.

• 33:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, my God, stop the trawlers.

• 33:41Danielle LaRock?

  I decide to try lying again. Don't worry, the fish doctor will help them. Remember at the aquarium, the doctor who was there helping the seal? That doctor can help the fish, too. They're called a veterinarian. Fish doctor help, I hear in reply. And I think to myself, good, this is working. Maybe we will work on environmental conservation when he's three and a half instead. For the next three days, fishies hurt and fishies know home continued to be a common topic of conversation.

• 34:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Stop, that's heartbreaking.

• 34:12Danielle LaRock?

  I know. I shout out to parents because the like adaptation you have to take and like, just kind of like rolling with the punches and like making things up on the fly and like trying to make them feel better.

• 34:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Trying to protect their heart when you know how hard the world really is.

• 34:28Danielle LaRock?

  I know. I'd be like, yeah, I know. Fishies do hurt. Fishies do be hurting.

• 34:36Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know what else to tell you.

• 34:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like you had to learn one day.

• 34:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. Luckily, the idea of the fish doctor seems to have helped him feel a little better about the whole thing. Finally, on the fourth day, he started asking, watch Fishy Show again. Not wanting to further the trauma, I decided to look specifically at National Geographic Kids and luckily found Sam Seas, a child-friendly show about animals in the ocean. Anyway, that's my non-trail trail tale. Odin has already been to two national parks, Shenandoah and Congry, and we hope to continue his love of nature, animals, and the outdoors as he grows. Perhaps we will just save some of the heavier topics for when he's a little older. Thank you for making your amazing podcasts. I'm always excited to hear the stories you tell and your personal adventures as well.

• 35:24Danielle LaRock?

  Haley. Ah, poor Odin.

• 35:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sorry Haley, you had to go through that. You did your best. It sounds like he's gonna recover okay. But man, I mean, that is a market. Send that to the people who are hurting the fishies. Be like, you did this to my son.

• 35:42Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, and there's just like, especially coming off of a weekend, I was just spending a lot of time with, I went to Canaby Lake with my, which is in New Hampshire. It's a amusement park that's been around since like, I'm pretty sure 1902. Don't quote me, but it was the early 1900s. And my family's been going for, I mean, since I was a child and now my sister and my cousins and they all have kids. So it's like the new generation. So I'm there uh with them and I was there with five kids under five. So it was a lot for me. Thank you for, I'm okay. Thank you for checking in.

• 36:21Danielle LaRock?

  But anyway, it's just like, they don't let things go. You know, like as soon as there's something in their head, they just like, they're latched in, they're zoned in.

• 36:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 36:29Danielle LaRock?

  They want to talk about it all the time. It's like you can try and, you can try and like distract them with something else or whatever, but like they're, they don't forget.

• 36:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 36:38Danielle LaRock?

  So especially to have some new traumatizing.

• 36:42Danielle LaRock?

  Oh God. I mean, Odin's gonna be a champion for the oceans. Just mark my words.

• 36:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, maybe you actually just changed, changed the trajectory of his life and now he's gonna be a conservationist and marine biologist.

• 36:58Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 36:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  You never know. You never know.

• 37:05Speaker 06

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• 37:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  All right. Well, my next story, let's see how this trauma plays out because this one, as I mentioned earlier, is titled, "I Bear Sprayed My Three-Year-Old on the Fourth of July." Trail Tales are some of my favorite episodes. I really enjoy hearing other firsthand experiences. At the same time, there's this FOMO feeling that creeps in when I want to write in but don't have anything worthy to share. Until two days ago, on the Fourth of July 2025, when I go hiking, I always have bear spray and am accompanied by my partner and my three-year-old son Jude. Normally, I carry him in a hiking backpack. I also listen to Tooth and Claw, so I have a hard time letting him walk on his own. I've never had to use bear spray, and our hikes have always been the good kind of uneventful. We had Austin's best bud and fam

• 38:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  over for dinner on the Fourth. We will call his BFF T, his wife S, and their three-year-old son Bean. None of us were feeling very patriotic this year and chose to forego the fireworks. We decided instead to go rock hunting before dinner. So we drove up the mountain towards Mount Baker to find a spot along the North Fork-Newsack River. We drove down Forest Service Road 37 for three miles until we hit the road closure barricade. This road has been washed out for several years, and now it's overgrown and is an extension of the trails it once led to. This was meant to be more of a stroll than a hike, so I packed lightly. Six bottles of water, one for each of us, snacks for the boys, med kit, flashlight, and last but not least, bear spray. That day, I wanted to let Jude walk. His friends were walking, so I thought

• 39:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  he should walk too. I threw on my pack, slipped the holster of my bear spray onto my fanny pack, adorned Jude with the cutest little bag for his water bottle, and we were off. As we hiked, I noticed the trail was lined with lush berry bushes of all kinds. It was beautiful, but I knew what it meant. We were in bear territory. I was on alert but still having a great time absorbing nature. I'm not sure how long we walked for, maybe 30 minutes. It was the perfect summer day. The rushing sound of a waterfall was in the distance, the thick foliage swaying with a slight breeze. The mountain air was warm and smelled sweet. Jude's tiny hands gripped mine as we strolled along with the rest of the group. I felt connected, singing to myself, "Ooh da lolly, ooh da lolly, golly, what a day."

• 39:51Danielle LaRock?

  That sounded so unenthusiastic.

• 39:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know that song. I don't know how to sing it.

• 39:56Danielle LaRock?

  I don't either, actually.

• 39:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oodalali, oodalali, oodalali, golly, what a day.

• 40:00Danielle LaRock?

  I imagine it was with more pep and vigor and happiness than whatever.

• 40:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oodalali, oodalali, golly, what a day.

• 40:07Danielle LaRock?

  There you go.

• 40:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay. It's not that I'm enthusiastic. I imagine this very happy. I just don't know how to read it.

• 40:16Danielle LaRock?

  I know.

• 40:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Then it happened. The sound of the metal clink rang through the forest, followed by a loud hissing. The air in front of me turned orange, blocking the rest of the group from view within seconds. Reacting quickly, I grabbed Jude and ran back down this trail. He was gasping, absolutely covered in bear spray. It hit him directly in the face. His eyes were watering and puffy snot poured from his nose. His light colored clothes turned orange. We ripped the water from my bag and started dumping it all over his face and body as he screamed. T held him so we could flush his eyes better. I did my best not to panic. We stripped his clothes. I scooped him up and started off back to the car as fast as I physically could. I cannot run, not like I'm out of shape, can't run, but like I will dislocate my knee for the 12th time

• 41:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  and then two people will need help, kind of can't run. So I'm moving as fast as my body will physically carry me. The sound of the waterfall is no longer soothing as my toddler cries out, why mama, what happened to me?

• 41:14Danielle LaRock?

  Oh no.

• 41:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh my god, this is heartbreaking. It's so sad. Jesus. I heard heavy footfall behind me as Austin caught up to relieve my tired arms. We make it back to the car in what feels like five minutes. Austin quickly dodged potholes as he sped down the three mile road towards any kind of service with a phone. Neither of us had service and we needed to get our son medical attention immediately. I felt fine enough up to that point. I knew I got hit bad. I was wearing sandals, shorts and a crop top, tank top. I felt it hit my feet and go up my legs onto my arms and the side of my face. My glasses saved my eyes and when I sat down in the car, it all hit me. My entire body was on fire. Once we got onto the main road, the first place we saw was a restaurant called Chair Nine.

• 42:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Austin called an ambulance using their phone and the wonderful staff sent him back out with some water and a lemonade for our son. The ambulance quickly arrived. After looking him over, they said he looked good. His vitals were great and his eyes were tracking as expected. As I thanked them profusely, they actually thanked us for being prepared and knowing to do by responding quickly and flushing his eyes. After spraying my kid in the face with bear spray, it only made me feel a little better. I did leave the can on the trail. I don't feel good about it, but the paramedics told us not to worry and someone will probably pick it up. Austin investigated the canister after we took off and found that it had a perfectly square puncture in the side of it. I blame myself. I didn't properly secure the holster to my fanny pack strap.

• 42:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  As I walked and my leg lifted the can, it pushed the clip of off the strap and fell to the ground. But instead of nothing happening like the times it's dropped before, it punctured a hole and coated my toddler and I.

• 42:54Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, it fell off.

• 42:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Danielle LaRock?

  The strap and hit the ground and punctured.

• 42:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's what it sounds like, yeah.

• 43:01Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, I was very confused as to how that discharged, but okay.

• 43:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I think the way that they wrote it was they weren't sure it was just a big bang. And now reflecting back, they realized it fell. As a mom, it's hard to see your kids upset. It's even worse knowing you caused it and could have prevented it. He's doing great now. He was feeling better within a few hours after a shower and some candy. I still need to clean out my car and I'm currently typing this to the sound of our shoes banging around in the washer. I will be bringing my bear spray on hikes, especially knowing how well it works now. I hope people can learn from my experience, enjoy the view, but make sure to properly secure your bear spray. Taylor and Jude.

• 43:40Danielle LaRock?

  Wow, poor Jude.

• 43:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so sad.

• 43:43Danielle LaRock?

  Jude and Odin.

• 43:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Jude and Odin, just breaking our hearts today.

• 43:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 43:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm glad Jude's okay and I'm glad you're okay. But I, I mean, it is a good lesson you mentioned. Make sure your bear spray is really secured properly because you don't want to get. You don't want to get accidentally hit with it, but man.

• 44:03Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  My heart.

• 44:04Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, I feel like that's something that kid is never gonna forget, like for better or worse. Like, I mean, I don't think that they're gonna like, it's gonna scar them forever. But I feel like, you know, a lot of times when things happen and parents are like, oh, my God, I feel so bad. And then the kid grows up and they have no recollection of it forever.

• 44:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Danielle LaRock?

  You know, it's just like, but as a parent, you remember, I feel like they're gonna probably recall something.

• 44:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's gonna be your kid's two truths and a lie. My mom sprayed me with bear spray. I like.

• 44:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Yep. Great. Well traumatized toddlers are something that.

• 44:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is very sad.

• 44:43Danielle LaRock?

  We don't love hearing about, but I guess worthy enough for a trail tale. Cause I chose two of them at once. This isn't a call out for that. I don't want to hear anymore.

• 44:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. That was really sad.

• 44:56Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, great. Is that it?

• 44:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's my last one.

• 44:59Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Well, I have a bonus story that is titled 20 miles, one map, zero trust left.

• 45:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I have one and it's titled sharks, squirrels in a Volkswagen named Vince. And you can listen to both of those on Patreon or Apple subscriptions if you want to hear more. But if you're just here on our regular feed, we appreciate you and we'll see you next time. Enjoy the view.

• 45:23Danielle LaRock?

  But watch your back.

• 45:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye, guys.

• 45:25Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale of your own you'd like to share, you can write to us at [email protected] or visit our website at NPADpodcast.com. Bonus trail tales and content are available to Patreon members and Apple subscribers. Follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and X at National Park After Dark. And if you prefer to watch our episodes, you can find us on YouTube at National Park After Dark. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

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