The Sasquatch Scapegoat: Sierra National Forest

In June of 1987, 16 year old Theresa Ann Bier vanished while on a camping trip outside of Yosemite National Park. The man who accompanied her, 43-year-old Russell “Skip” Welch, returned alone days later with a startling story - Bigfoot took her. For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! Blueland: Make the switch today! Get 15% off your first order by going to Blueland dot com slash NPAD. FirstDay: Our listeners get up to 57% Off AND a Free Gift with code NPAD at http://FirstDay.comIQBAR: Text PARK to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping. Message and data rates may apply. Keeper: Get 60% off personal and family plans at http://Keepersecurity.com/NPADPAKA: To grab your PAKA hoodie, go to WWW DOT PAKA APPAREL DOT COMSquare: Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at http://square.com/go/NPAD ! #squarepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:03Danielle LaRock?

  It rises almost without warning just east of Fresno, California, the majestic Sierra Nevada, what John Muir called "the range of light." Giant sequoias, granite peaks, dense forests of ponderosa pine and white fir so thick they swallow the afternoon sun whole. Running roughly 400 miles along the eastern edge of the Golden State, it is one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of North America. It's the type of wilderness where you can walk for days without crossing a road or spotting another person. And depending on who you ask, it is also Bigfoot country. California ranks second in the nation for reported Bigfoot sightings. And the famous grainy video of Bigfoot, also known as the Patterson Gimlin footage,

• 1:48Danielle LaRock?

  was taken there in the 1960s. The Sierra Nevada is dotted with reported sightings. Hunters, hikers, and campers drawn into the mountains come back with stories they can't quite explain. In the summer of 1987, a man emerged from these mountains without the person he went in them with. When investigators asked him what happened, he had an answer. Bigfoot took her. The headlines wrote themselves, but the truth, or what we know of it, is much darker than whatever supposedly dwells in that forest. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 2:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome back. I'm Cassie.

• 2:46Danielle LaRock?

  I'm Danielle.

• 2:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like I haven't heard the word Bigfoot on our podcast in maybe too long.

• 2:52Danielle LaRock?

  I know. And apologies for that because I feel personally responsible somehow.

• 2:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was almost a jump scare when you said it. I was like, oh, Bigfoot.

• 2:59Danielle LaRock?

  Are we? Yes. Welcome back.

• 3:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Him.

• 3:02Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's been a while. And just as a reminder, I should have done this. I didn't. But we covered the Patterson Gimlin footage in an episode years ago.

• 3:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Years.

• 3:14Danielle LaRock?

  If you want.

• 3:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Years now.

• 3:15Danielle LaRock?

  A Bigfoot-coded episode, that's the one for you because this one surprisingly kind of isn't.

• 3:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  It didn't sound like it would be. It sounds like Bigfoot is the scapegoat to something darker.

• 3:27Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, did you read the title of what I titled this?

• 3:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  No. Am I?

• 3:32Danielle LaRock?

  I titled it The Bigfoot's, or sorry, I titled it The Scape, uh, what did I title?

• 3:39Danielle LaRock?

  Wait, what did I do?

• 3:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Am I psychic or not?

• 3:42Danielle LaRock?

  You are. I promise you, you are. What did I do? Oh, the Sasquatch scapegoat.

• 3:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ah. Well.

• 3:51Danielle LaRock?

  Same brain. Yeah. So yeah, this one is actually a recommendation from a listener who I actually did filter back through to try and get their name to properly thank them, but they didn't sign the email. So just now.

• 4:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  And their email didn't say their name?

• 4:10Danielle LaRock?

  It did, but I didn't want to shout it out in case it was private information. I don't know. If you don't sign your name, I'm not going to like.

• 4:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 4:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 4:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  The first time you actually try to show people, remember to show people out. It's like, oh, you didn't sign your name.

• 4:27Danielle LaRock?

  Yep, sorry.

• 4:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sign on the dotted line. Sign your life away, or we won't include you in the podcast.

• 4:32Danielle LaRock?

  Well, just know that if you sent an email in March of 2026 with this recommendation, thank you personally. Thank you. But the email did say like, hey, my husband just saw this docu-series and I feel like it would be a perfect episode. And it turns out it is almost perfect. It's not in a national park. It's in a national forest, but the location in the national forest is just south of the southern entrance of Yosemite. And this

• 5:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  We cover national forests all the time. They count. They're national parks. They haven't, they literally have the word national in it.

• 5:10Danielle LaRock?

  And that's what we're basing this entire show off is the word.

• 5:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  National.

• 5:15Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Well, the docu-series that they brought up in their email, I ran to because I had never heard of this case before. And the, it's a three-part, like little mini-series thing on Discovery Channel. It premiered, I think, last year or the year before. You can watch it for free on YouTube if you don't have Discovery Plus or whatever streaming service. And it kind of, like those mini-series tend to do, they say a lot without saying much, if that makes sense. Like,

• 5:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like a lot of fluff?

• 5:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. I could have boiled down the information that was pertinent to this case into maybe 15 minutes. It didn't need to be three 45 minute long.

• 5:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like one of those dramatized things where it's like, it was really dark outside in the dead of the night, under the cloud of darkness.

• 6:08Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, oh, my God, get to it. Yes, precisely that. And there was a lot of like, B-roll footage of them driving. They were driving a lot.

• 6:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do love a good B-roll.

• 6:19Danielle LaRock?

  They do. So, no shade to it. It was entertaining, but for the actual information that is going to be in this episode, I turned to a book and I'll link it in the episode description. It's only like 60 pages. So that being said, I think the story is totally worth telling and that's why I'm doing an episode on it, but it's kind of a little bit slimmer on the details compared to a normal episode, if that makes sense.

• 6:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  It does.

• 6:50Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. And just before we get started, little bit of a heads up here. This episode does contain a lot of sensitive topics like child abuse and sexual abuse of minors. It's pretty heavy. So if you're not in the space to listen to that, here is your heads up. So let's get into it. Teresa Ann Bier was born on April 16th, 1971, the second of three girls to a military family. Her father, David, was overseas in Vietnam and her mom Shirley, to put it lightly, really struggled with the responsibilities of motherhood. As a result, Teresa and her sisters were often left in the care of her grandmother until her dad came home from the war.

• 7:35Danielle LaRock?

  However, it was just a few short years until social services showed up after Teresa, who was just barely three years old at the time, was reported as having a broken leg. Teresa's mother ultimately admitted to breaking it intentionally by twisting her leg around the crib slats in an act of abuse.

• 7:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ah, that's awful.

• 7:57Danielle LaRock?

  The wound left Teresa with lasting physical scars and likely emotional ones, and she and one of her sisters were taken into the foster system. Over the next 10 years, she bounced between foster homes. An adult from church took them in for a while and then her father remarried and then regained custody of them, only for the girls to suffer further abuse at the hands of their new stepmother.

• 8:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 8:23Danielle LaRock?

  So this is a lot of years' worth of here, there, everywhere information, but just know she bounced around a lot and from what I gather, she was never truly safe, really, in any of these circumstances. So she had a really tough start to life. Teresa's next home was with her great grandmother in Fresno, but by this time she was a teenager and overflowing with energy. She was a young girl and she was starting to come into her own. And despite all the years of abuse that she endured, Teresa remained a kind-hearted person and was considered at the time, a tomboy, meaning essentially she

• 9:06Danielle LaRock?

  was just really into nature. She loved climbing trees, spending time outside. She wasn't afraid of getting dirty. And while her great grandmother was well-intentioned with wanting to take her in, she was like elder, she was nearing her 80s. She was not in the best of health and it was just too much to care for a young girl. So because of the struggles that she had with keeping up with Teresa, she ultimately decided that Teresa could go live with her uncle, which was the last move that she would make before she wound up in the headline news. As the story goes, Teresa's uncle, John Richmond, earned the nickname Blind Johnny

• 9:49Danielle LaRock?

  at the age of 18 years old after a failed game of Russian roulette. He had shot himself in the head and lost his eyesight, but not his life.

• 9:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, that's a stroke of luck. If you're playing Russian roulette and you live through that, I mean, I guess depending because it's pretty bad luck if you pull the trigger, but the fact that you live after is.

• 10:14Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, obviously with lasting scars, but so.

• 10:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  This already feels like a very rough and tumble family because I would never even slightly consider anything like that.

• 10:26Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, you wait. It gets really, like I said before that we started this episode, we, before we pressed record, I was telling Cassie how this case really caused me to be, I don't know, last night I was just tossing and turning a lot because I was finishing up the notes on this and just putting the finishing touches on the episode. And I don't know, it's just so deeply unsettling and I just feel so bad and so deeply for Teresa, not just ultimately what happened to her, but just her whole life.

• 10:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 10:56Danielle LaRock?

  And all these situations that she was in and family that, and when you think of family, you think of people who care for you and want the best for you. And you'll see that that just wasn't the case for her. And I don't know, it's just deeply upsetting. So Blind Johnny takes her in and while he did do that and agreed to do so, it seems like it wasn't really out of the kindness of his heart of my niece needs a place to stay and a, you know, roof over her head and a parental figure. It seems like he was just kind of doing it for the payout that a foster parent would get. I mean, it's super modest stipend, but still like

• 11:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  People do that. That's a real thing. Yeah. I had a friend who was in the foster system and she ended up in a situation very similar. So it's definitely unfortunately very real.

• 11:48Danielle LaRock?

  And at this point in time, just to get a gauge on where people are at here, Teresa was just starting high school and Blind Johnny was in his 40s. And while it isn't super central to the story, just because you brought the family dynamics and convoluted type of relationships going on here, just to give a better picture of what's happening. So Teresa's dad is Blind Johnny's former brother-in-law, meaning that when her dad got remarried, he married Blind Johnny's ex-wife.

• 12:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, drama.

• 12:27Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 12:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Drama.

• 12:29Danielle LaRock?

  So there's a lot of confusion here and maybe some resentment and things like that. Perhaps as a result of her difficult home life, growing up, bouncing from one home to the next and enduring abuse at the hands of her parents, Teresa struggled a bit in school and teachers described her as a slow learner. It's like, yeah, she, maybe she just has bigger shit going on right now, you know?

• 12:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And doesn't have the supportive family at home to help her with homework and

• 13:00Danielle LaRock?

  Right, exactly.

• 13:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  And all of that.

• 13:02Danielle LaRock?

  At 16 years old, she was slim, stood five foot five with brown hair and bangs that sometimes obscured her hazel eyes. She was still a freshman and older than her classmates. And on June 1st, 1987, as Teresa gathered her schoolbooks and left for one of the last days of the school year, instead of taking the bus, this time, she caught a ride from a family friend of Blind Johnny's, a 43-year-old man named Russell Shelton Walsh, also known as Skip. However, a few hours later, Teresa's high school called her uncle to say that she had never shown up that day. And after searching for her throughout the day, Johnny officially

• 13:42Danielle LaRock?

  reported Teresa missing to the Fresno Police later that evening. Detective Doug Stokes took the lead on the case and immediately set to work. Knowing Teresa was last seen with Skip, he interviewed those who knew him, including his son Terry and his daughter Chandra, who both had some pretty concerning things to say about their dad Skip, mostly his habit of doing drugs and taking underage children deep into the woods.

• 14:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is a habit of his? This is like a known thing that he does? That's awful.

• 14:14Danielle LaRock?

  He's known around town for this, and we'll get into that in a little bit.

• 14:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  I hate that so much.

• 14:21Danielle LaRock?

  After learning Skip spent significant periods of time in the forest and gaining information on the location of his four mining claims in the Sierras, Detective Stokes also spoke with the US Forest Service, and members of the Forest Service were dispatched on foot and horseback to search trails and specifically different trailheads for Skip's vehicle. And I have to say, right off the bat, you know, the reaction time for law enforcement on this, I think comparatively to other cases that we've heard and covered and researched before was pretty quick. This wasn't like, oh, she just ran away, give her 48, like, you can't report it for 40, whatever it is, you know, they were pretty on it pretty quickly.

• 15:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, it sounds like they have really concerning information right out the gate, where it's like, I know she was with this guy, and I'm guessing if it was known around town that he did this stuff, that police had an inkling but had never been able to tie him to taking underage people into the woods.

• 15:22Danielle LaRock?

  And they're going to learn a lot more about Skip and why he was doing that.

• 15:29Danielle LaRock?

  Four days after the missing persons report was filed, Skip's Brown 1976 Monte Carlo was located in the foothills of the mountains, parked in a tiny community near the town of North Fork, California, a town that serves as sort of a gateway to the shut-eye region of the Sierra National Forest, just south of Yosemite National Park. When they finally tracked down Skip at his mother's house, which I don't even want to get into all the, it was like a game of telephone and this person saw him and they said this and that, whatever, they found him at his mother's house. Teresa was nowhere to be found. On June 10th, Fresno Police took Skip into custody, arresting him on an outstanding DUI

• 16:10Danielle LaRock?

  charge, and pressed him to explain where the missing 16-year-old girl had wound up. Initially, Skip was adamant that he'd simply taken Teresa to school. He had picked her up from home, listened to her talk about all her struggles that she was experiencing as a 16-year-old girl, and then dropped her off at school.

• 16:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, because 16-year-old girls tell their uncles all the struggles they're having.

• 16:34Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it's not even her uncle, it's her uncle's friend.

• 16:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, oh, right, right. It's like, right.

• 16:38Danielle LaRock?

  Sure.

• 16:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  She confided all of this information.

• 16:41Danielle LaRock?

  And she was also described as pretty reserved and shy. Like, she was super kind and, you know, she wasn't like a recluse or anything, but it didn't, I didn't-

• 16:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  It'd be out of character.

• 16:53Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I didn't get the impression that she would just be an open book to anybody. Police sensed that clearly this probably was not what happened and that he was leaving some things out or lying entirely, so they pressed him further. And then he changed his story. He claimed that after he dropped Teresa off at school, a blonde friend of hers arrived to help, quote-unquote, Teresa hide out.

• 17:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  From what?

• 17:21Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. Like, I think he was insinuating, like, he dropped her off at school, but then it looked like her friend and her were gonna play hooky or something.

• 17:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Danielle LaRock?

  That too didn't fly with the police. So Skip's story changed again. This time, he admitted to taking Teresa into the mountains to look for Sasquatch, arguing that Teresa had agreed to join him on a camping trip. When they asked Skip how she disappeared from the campsite, it's like, okay, so you took her into the mountains to camp. Where is she? Once again, he offered various different explanations for this version of events. She'd run off into the woods with a different group of campers to, oh yeah, when we were going up there, we saw some people with motorcycles. And she was, she thought the motorcycles were really cool.

• 18:14Danielle LaRock?

  And then when we ran into them at the campsite, she like went off with them.

• 18:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  In what worlds? In what worlds?

• 18:21Danielle LaRock?

  But finally, Skip stuck with one last version of events, and the story that stuck in the headlines, and the one that he maintained until the day he died. On this camping trip, Bigfoot took Teresa. This claim may be a shock to you, and it was certainly a shock to the police. But Skip's obsession with Bigfoot was well documented around Fresno. Skip didn't just believe the legend, he seemed to be utterly consumed by it. Long before the summer of 1987, Skip was pestering the anthropology department at Fresno State to meet with him about Bigfoot, knocking on their door for years, until staff finally agreed to meet with him.

• 19:05Danielle LaRock?

  He arrived with a stack of photographs two inches thick that he insisted were the definitive proof that the world was missing. But to the professors, they were just blurry photos of the forest and trees with weird shapes that didn't look like really anything, let alone definitive proof of Bigfoot.

• 19:28Danielle LaRock?

  When the photos didn't work, Skip doubled down. He eventually left a brown paper bag at the university containing skeletal remains that he had scavenged from the Sierra Nevada National Forest. He was certain that he had found Sasquatch, but forensic analysis proved that the bones were merely the remains of domesticated cattle. But Skip wasn't just eager to prove Bigfoot's existence to Fresno State. He also took other people, mostly young people, into the mountains to search with him.

• 20:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Against their will? Or?

• 20:02Danielle LaRock?

  No, but also kind of.

• 20:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay. Like it was a weird scenario going on.

• 20:10Danielle LaRock?

  It was a weird scenario. So, and he did this with multiple different people. And it seems like every one of them that did go with him did agree to go at first, but then they had really odd, strange experiences once they were out there with him and got really freaked out and wished they didn't go.

• 20:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 20:34Danielle LaRock?

  But initially, when he was talking it up, he never kidnapped anybody and brought them out, that I am aware of. Maybe he did.

• 20:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was more like people were like, yeah, let's look for Bigfoot. I've heard the legends, it would be so fun and cool. And then you get out there and you're like, who is this strange guy?

• 20:48Danielle LaRock?

  This guy is off his, yeah, off his rocker and I'm afraid for my life type of thing. Yeah. Years later, multiple people came forward to talk about their experiences with the, not only the author of the book that I read, but also with the hosts of that Discovery series, which is titled Bigfoot Took Her. One of those people was Michelle Ryan, who in 1986, like I mentioned, agreed to go with Skip initially. And once she was there, had a really horrific experience. She said at night, she saw an ugly demon in the bushes and was getting so frightened and freaked out that she nearly ran off a cliff.

• 21:31Danielle LaRock?

  Like she was seeing things in the woods and hearing things and Skip was acting really bizarre. And there was two other guys with her that also. Were kind of freaked out, but thankfully kept Michelle a little bit contained and safe and not like running. She almost fell off a cliff. She was so scared.

• 21:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Did he drug her or was this just?

• 21:53Danielle LaRock?

  She thinks that perhaps she was drugged.

• 21:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  She was hallucinating because of some type of substance.

• 21:59Danielle LaRock?

  Mm hmm. Two years earlier, a man named Kenny Cook claimed to have seen something similar and had a staring contest with a quote unquote white gorilla under a tree until a tree crashed into their camp, leading him and Skip to flee. Some college students were lured out on a similar trip with Skip, who described being paralyzed by sounds of knocking in the trees while Skip whispered about eyes glowing in the dark. Even Skip's own nephew, James, had disturbing experiences in the Sierras with his uncle, in which he walked away shook by what he experienced out in the forest. And after hearing some of the individual's testimony, and even years later,

• 22:40Danielle LaRock?

  you can tell how deeply disturbed they are by what they experienced. So I don't want to take away from what happened to them because clearly, no matter what it was, whether it was drugs, truly Bigfoot, something else, whatever it was, it messed them up and it stayed with them for decades. But that being said, there are certain patterns that are seen throughout almost all of their stories, even though they occurred separately from one another. The first is that Skip, a forty something year old man, was regularly and routinely bringing underage teenagers into the mountains.

• 23:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's so creepy and wrong.

• 23:25Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So whatever the reason is, even if you did have the purest of intentions of wanting to find Bigfoot, you just, that's a red flag. You don't do that.

• 23:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  No adult wants to hang out with children in the woods.

• 23:36Danielle LaRock?

  Ever.

• 23:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Good intentions unless they're like trusted family members and it just, you know, like if it's a camping trip or something, but there's no like strange adult that has no relation to a teenager that has good intentions.

• 23:51Danielle LaRock?

  And also across all of these different accounts of Skip's obsession, you hear a darker, more paranormal edge than simple Sasquatch sightings or an interest in Bigfoot, even though he's clearly.

• 24:06Danielle LaRock?

  A super mega fan. There's a difference between the most well-intentioned person who is into Bigfoot and whatever Skip was.

• 24:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, giving Bigfoot people a bad name.

• 24:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, truly.

• 24:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which we hate.

• 24:22Danielle LaRock?

  Skip claimed to have formed a quote unquote, "strong relationship with a community of Bigfoot in the high Sierras." Prior to Teresa's disappearance, he took his nephew into the mountains and showed him a rock with an alleged sacrificial design. Skip, who with a straight face, completely dead-ass serious, said to his nephew, his, this child, showed him this design on the rock and told him it was used to present human sacrifices to devil gods, in which a young woman's hands needed to be tied behind her head while she was laid out on her back to appease these gods because Bigfoot worshipped women.

• 25:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ew, I hate that so much. And ob- obviously, just everything you're talking about right now, he's clearly mentally disturbed in some capacity.

• 25:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  It feels like, I don't know, I mean, I could try and diagnose him, but it feels like some type of paranoia, like schizophrenia kind of thing going on here.

• 25:23Danielle LaRock?

  Well, wouldn't you know it, my next bullet here says, "Friends noted that Skip was a man that was losing touch with reality, a spiral that only worsened after he lost his wife to an overdose. He began taking meth, a drug known to cause psychosis in heavy users, a condition that leads to delusions, hallucinations, and a paranoid state not unlike schizophrenia."

• 25:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  God, I'm good.

• 25:50Danielle LaRock?

  Damn it, she's good.

• 25:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  God, I'm good.

• 25:54Danielle LaRock?

  Well, she is a psych major. We are in the midst of a psychology major.

• 25:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bachelor degree.

• 26:00Danielle LaRock?

  Bachelor of science.

• 26:03Danielle LaRock?

  There it is. That's why they pay you the big bucks.

• 26:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  It is truly. Actually, they paid me almost nothing when I worked at psychology, but.

• 26:10Danielle LaRock?

  It's okay, but look where I got you.

• 26:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  This, this spot right here. Wow. I knew I went to college for a reason.

• 26:18Danielle LaRock?

  We truly did.

• 26:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was for this moment.

• 26:21Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know if I've ever truly used my degree, ever.

• 26:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Really?

• 26:26Danielle LaRock?

  Like I've put it on resumes and stuff because it was required for a job, but they didn't even check.

• 26:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Like no one hired you specifically because of that.

• 26:36Danielle LaRock?

  And I never used, no, I don't think I've ever been in a situation in a professional setting where I was like, let me draw from my knowledge bank of when I learned this in school.

• 26:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah. I, I've had a couple of jobs that directly related to my major, but there was never anything where I was like, let me check my papers I wrote back in college to make sure, let me cross-reference this to make sure I'm right here.

• 27:06Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Yeah. We have pursued a unusual career path.

• 27:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bigfoot and psychology.

• 27:15Danielle LaRock?

  What a thought. Rewinding a little bit back because if you remember after I just kind of went on that side tangent about Skip's background, he is in custody. They arrested him under a different charge for the DUI. So he's in custody.

• 27:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  And is this nine days later? Cause she left on June 1st and then he was arrested on June 10th?

• 27:34Danielle LaRock?

  He was arrested. Yes. Yes.

• 27:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay. So it's taken this long.

• 27:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, it's taken this long because his car wasn't found until four days later. And then by the time they arrested him and he's going through all this stuff, like it's well over a week later. And so he's in custody and once he kind of lands on this one specific story, after he changed his version of events a handful of times, he's doubling down on this. And the investigators commented on, once he really opened the floodgates about the Bigfoot thing, they couldn't get him to shut up. Like they were saying, unlike other people who were in custody and are being questioned about their potential involvement in a missing person case or for someone that.

• 28:24Danielle LaRock?

  Perhaps is guilty of something. Usually they're like, I want to talk to a lawyer. I'm not going to say anything. He, on the other hand, just continued on.

• 28:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, let me tell you about Bigfoot.

• 28:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. So here he is explaining more about Bigfoot and all he knows about them. He went on to tell police that Sasquatches were 11 foot tall, quote unquote, bodyguards for a race of super intelligent beings that lived in caves underground and that Teresa had run off with them, stating that the individuals she went away with would not hurt her, but he knew that after she had left, he would never see her again. But not to worry, because Teresa was in a society so beautiful, she would never want to come back. So this is what he's telling law enforcement, okay?

• 29:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  And law enforcement, I'm sure, had to engage in all of this and be like, aha, and where is this place? Like, what was, what do you mean?

• 29:18Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah. And not only did he say all of this and explain everything about their society and whatever they served as for other species of potential cryptids, he said all of this to law enforcement with, quote, "Continual eye contact, straight in the eye, and made no emotional indications that would seem to indicate that he believed he was playing a joke or relaying information to me," and this is a quote, by the way, from the lead investigator, "that he did not some way believe to be true." So Detective Stokes is like, yeah, I know this sounds really outlandish, but I, in my professional opinion, he believed this to be true.

• 30:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 30:02Danielle LaRock?

  For whatever reason, psychosis, meth.

• 30:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which is almost scarier.

• 30:06Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 30:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because how are you going to crack something from someone who like truly thinks they're telling the truth?

• 30:11Danielle LaRock?

  Right. And I think that's why that this whole thing kept me up so much last night, because there's a difference with someone who did something awful and is just lying and is a piece of shit and just will never admit to it, to someone who truly believes this and you will never get an answer from.

• 30:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Because they like, maybe don't even know the answer themselves, the truth.

• 30:36Danielle LaRock?

  Exactly.

• 30:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Especially because you mentioned he's, he's heavily using drugs and who knows what kind of state of mind he was in during this entire encounter.

• 30:44Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Exactly.

• 30:49Danielle LaRock?

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• 33:18Danielle LaRock?

  So Skip continues on with his story stating that he did try and look for her after he saw her run away with this creature, but he couldn't find her. So he left. But then the next day, he was thinking about her and being like, I wonder if I can find her and whatever happened to her. So he said he returned the next day to try and look for her again, but couldn't find her. So he decided, you know what? She's, she's gone, but at least she'll be happy and just turns around, gets, gets in his car and decides to go back home. And he was headed to his mother's house. But he said, when he got into the car, he felt that something was in

• 34:01Danielle LaRock?

  the car with him, like some sort of presence. He described it kind of like an evil oppressive energy in the car with him. So at first, he said he felt it. And then he said, he looked in his rearview mirror and he saw it. And he just describes it as like the devil. He just said, I saw the devil. He was sitting in my backseat and he freaks out because he's also driving at this point. He said he freaked out and decided to try and physically hit it and get it out of the car. So he said that he took his hands and reached back and was trying to punch this thing. And when he's explaining it, he's like, I punched right

• 34:45Danielle LaRock?

  through it because it was this entity and I had this speaker in the backseat of my car and my hand just kept hitting this wooden edge of this big speaker. But I was trying to get this evil entity out of my car. And he thrust his hands into, onto the table to show detectives proof and his hands were all scuffed up, like and bruised and scraped over. So he's like, yeah, see, this is what happened. And again, that's so frightening because to me, that's like, he was in a physical altercation with Teresa.

• 35:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it sounds like that unless he truly was just hitting the speaker over and over again. And that

• 35:25Danielle LaRock?

  Which could be true. Yeah.

• 35:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because this is the following day when he said he hasn't seen her. Two, but it could also be related to something the day before.

• 35:35Danielle LaRock?

  Right. I mean, I guess either way, it's

• 35:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  indicative of something that

• 35:41Danielle LaRock?

  Isn't right.

• 35:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is not good. Yeah.

• 35:42Danielle LaRock?

  So anyway, um, he said that, you know, couldn't find her. But then he also said, oh, I actually did see her and she was running through the woods with this blonde being that was like one of those super intelligent beings or whatever. I don't know. He was just being here, there and everywhere. But he concludes his statement by sort of laughing and saying that if they were to find her, don't worry, there wouldn't be any sign of sexual assault. Because even though he had plenty of opportunities to have sex with Teresa, he didn't do that because it wasn't in his nature.

• 36:21Danielle LaRock?

  And I just, the trip that this, the law enforcement was, were probably on during this of hearing all of that and then having him just kind of wrap up with that. It's like, oh my God, Teresa.

• 36:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  What did you do to her?

• 36:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. So with all of this information, namely that he had taken her camping. So there must be a physical location that they can go, like a specific location that they can start at. Detectives requested that he bring them there and he was like, oh yeah, I'll take you right over there. So he brings them on this 25 mile drive deep into the back country, like logging roads through the Sierras into this remote meadow in the mountains where he claimed he and Teresa had camped. There at the edge of a grove of trees, they discovered a smoldering fire pit, blankets and some items that might have belonged to Teresa,

• 37:19Danielle LaRock?

  including a T-shirt, a bra and a cloth purse with some Polaroids in it. In the Polaroids, they found a picture of Skip playing a guitar and a picture of a girl Skip identified as Teresa. But as the police looked closer at the items at the campsite, the Polaroids in the purse stood out. The man in the photos did indeed appear to be Skip and the girl did closely resemble Teresa. And the configuration of the blankets and the campsite appeared to be what they were looking at in the Polaroid photos. Like it did appear to be that campsite, but the background looked almost nothing like where they were. It looked like a mountain called Madera Peak, almost 20 miles away.

• 38:03Danielle LaRock?

  And it dawned on investigators that the campsite that they were standing in was very likely staged and that the actual location of where Teresa disappeared was likely dozens of miles away, deeper into the backcountry, within a place known to Skip and all the other people that he took Bigfoot hunting as Ghost Canyon. Because he had brought every other person to this other.

• 38:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And this changes the story a bit too, because right now, everything you've been telling, as he seems like he's a little bit out of his mind. He doesn't have a wherewithal to really know reality from not. But now, if he staged a scene at this random location, he clearly has the wherewithal for that to try and cover up something.

• 38:52Danielle LaRock?

  Right. An immediate and intensive search was launched around the campsite Skip had led them to, the region shown in the Polaroids and in between. Bloodhounds followed the scent of Teresa's clothing and helicopters from Sacramento brought the then state of the art infrared cameras to pick up even a faint heat signature. And again, another side note that's not super pertinent to the story, but provides, I think, some context that, again, kept me up last night, is that, so there was some clothing at the scene, at that campsite, that allegedly Skip was saying belonged to Teresa, but they have no idea if that truly was Teresa's clothing.

• 39:38Danielle LaRock?

  So they went to Blind Johnny, the uncle, and requested clothing from Teresa that the bloodhounds could use, like verified from Teresa.

• 39:49Danielle LaRock?

  And he gave them, out of all her clothes, he gave them a pair of her bloody underwear and said, oh, she had just started her period before she disappeared. So here you go.

• 40:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  What? Did he think, the only thing I can think of why you would do that is because you thought there would be more DNA on it? To help find, but that's a really weird.

• 40:12Danielle LaRock?

  And Blind Johnny has his own demons that we'll talk about a little bit, a little bit later on. But I just, it's just like, really, out of all the things, and I don't know, whatever. I just, I also know more about Blind Johnny and I'm like, trust me, he's not that great. Yeah.

• 40:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  So that just made it even worse.

• 40:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think he's great at all. I think he's awful already, but.

• 40:39Danielle LaRock?

  Um, so yeah. Needless to say, police heavily doubted Skip's story, every, every part of it, essentially. Other than it was confirmed that Teresa did agree to go with him on this excursion to quote unquote, find Bigfoot. Because there were people who ran into her in the days prior and she had mentioned, oh, I'm gonna go with Skip and.

• 41:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, so she never thought she was going to school that day?

• 41:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, she planned, she knew.

• 41:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 41:16Danielle LaRock?

  So police had reason to doubt Skip's version of events, but that didn't stop the media. Fresno had its fair share of Bigfoot believers and when Skip pointed towards the trees and the ape-like creatures within them, the press went wild. Starting on June 19th, just over two weeks after Teresa disappeared, sensational headlines like, "Man blames Bigfoot for missing girl in the Fresno Bee" appeared, followed by "Police release picture of girl who left on trip to find Bigfoot and abducted by Bigfoot?" Question mark, and the National Examiner turned a tragedy into a tabloid sensation that made national news. And for weeks, the hook was the monster and not the missing girl.

• 42:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  I hate that because you're also not. You're taking away all blame from the guy who took her there, too.

• 42:07Danielle LaRock?

  Mm hmm. But throughout all of this, under the radar, Skip made one claim that was worth taking seriously. Teresa wanted to leave the house because she was being abused by her uncle. Johnny lived on what locals called Motel Row, an area known for drug deals, sex work, and violence. And Blind Johnny was more than a witness to the scene. He was an active participant, dealing and doing meth out of the house. Teresa, according to those who knew her, was not treated like family, but more like a servant, expected to cook, clean, and do chores for Johnny, even if it meant missing school. Johnny's ex-girlfriend, who, by the way, at the time, was 17 years old.

• 42:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  What?

• 42:51Danielle LaRock?

  Just another aside to put in that mental bank, would later describe Teresa as a scared little girl in the house and extremely withdrawn, a far cry from the rambunctious happy girl that she had been before. There are also deeply disturbing allegations raised by others that Teresa faced physical and sexual abuse at the hands of her uncle and the different men that came into Uncle Johnny, Blind Johnny's house.

• 43:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  I hate stories like this because it sounds like people knew this was going on. And I know that a lot of people are like, not my house, not my business, kind of thing. But when it comes to a child, I just think that that's such a place where it's every adult's business that if you see a child's being abused or in a situation, especially something this severe, it is your duty to hop in. It is your, like, I don't, it is your duty to report it at very minimum.

• 43:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's just a lot of people failed Teresa. And I think that's what is so haunting about this is because it happened so repeatedly, and that's awful. But on the other side of the coin, it happened so repeatedly and repeatedly, nothing was reported, nothing got better. Like, there was no time in which someone advocated for her.

• 44:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 44:14Danielle LaRock?

  Other than her grand, you know, her grandmother, who seemed to really care for her, but just was physically unable.

• 44:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's just stories like that. Just I it just I hate it so much because there's one thing. And of course, the abuser is always the one in the wrong. But if there's a bunch of good people standing by and watching it happen and they don't say anything, then it's like, what is the point?

• 44:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So all of that to say, it kind of just makes what happened after Teresa disappeared all the more troubling. When Central High School called to report Teresa absent on the morning of June 1, Blind Johnny didn't exactly raise the alarm. Because if you remember, he did. He did report her missing, but not until like 9:30 at night.

• 45:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm.

• 45:03Danielle LaRock?

  And initially, he was like, Oh, I'm all, you know, search for her and kind of just look for her and try and figure it out before reporting it to the police.

• 45:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Especially if you have drugs and like all this stuff going on, you're not going to draw attention.

• 45:18Danielle LaRock?

  And he told the school initially that she was homesick. And it was depending on how you slice it, potentially, it gave him time to clean up, you know, whatever else was going on in his under his own roof. But also, it perhaps gave Skip hours of lead time into the mountains.

• 45:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  To set up us like whatever he's doing. Set up or something.

• 45:43Danielle LaRock?

  So whether that delay was negligence, fear, or something worse, has never really been answered. And if true, all of those allegations about Johnny and what was going on and what he was doing and what he was involved with, it would certainly give Teresa plenty of reason to want out of his house and to flee into the mountains with, you know, even though it was Skip and, you know, he was an older guy, it just seemed like around town, people, I don't want to say he seemed harmless. People weren't like, Oh, that's just good old Skip and he just loves Bigfoot. Things had happened enough that people were like, Yeah.

• 46:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but in comparison to her home life, you know, I feel like someone like that might not be very scary.

• 46:31Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like it's a lesser of two evil situation she might have been toggling between. So that's just the feeling I get. But another thing about all those rumors about Blind Johnny and the things that he was involved with and the situations that were, you know, rumored to be happening there led some to suspect that he was involved with Teresa's disappearance directly. That he had sold her to Skip to keep her quiet about whatever else was happening, or if Skip, he was endowed to skip in some way for some shady dealings and he just like gave her.

• 47:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or traded her for drugs.

• 47:10Danielle LaRock?

  Or traded her, like, yeah. So that was another.

• 47:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so messed up.

• 47:15Danielle LaRock?

  Uh, I know. It's so bad. I'm sorry. I told you this was so disturbing and.

• 47:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's so, it's just like anything with a child is just like a whole nother layer. But like I, we've mentioned, I mean, so many people failed her. But then just the fact to be with people like this, it's just really, really heartbreaking. And she's only 16.

• 47:37Danielle LaRock?

  Right. And her whole life has been.

• 47:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Abuse.

• 47:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So regardless of all this information, it wasn't anything concrete. You know, there was no physical evidence. There was no hard evidence that really tied anybody to anything concretely, which was a, a big problem. And then just to kind of throw another thing in here, Johnny and his girlfriend, that 17 year old, insisted that they had only met Skip the week before and barely even knew who he was. So they're like, oh no, none of that can be true. Like we're not involved. We don't even know who that guy is. It's like, then why would you let her go with him? But anyway.

• 48:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Talking about, it seems like the family, yeah, there's just a lot of bad decisions and anything with drugs, things just get.

• 48:26Danielle LaRock?

  It's kind of like you can't believe anybody in this story. Not one person seems to be telling the truth.

• 48:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Danielle LaRock?

  At least in its entirety, which is extremely frustrating. So what investigators were left with was a missing 16 year old girl, a guardian with no credibility and a suspect whose story kept changing.

• 48:48Danielle LaRock?

  Ultimately, investigators charged Skip with a misdemeanor for child endangerment and a felony for child stealing, crimes he would face trial for in a few months. But that was pretty much all that they could get him on. The lead detectives were deeply skeptical of Skip's erratic and shifting alibis and believed he was a dangerous individual who lured Teresa into the mountains and that he eventually murdered her. The Bigfoot legend was nothing more than a delusional shield. And the police did everything they could to find Teresa. An immediate, like I said, that immediate search was intensive. It expanded throughout the campsites, throughout the national forest and anywhere that they

• 49:33Danielle LaRock?

  suspected she could possibly be.

• 49:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  So that place where that was in the Polaroids, they went there and investigated as well?

• 49:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. Bloodhounds followed the scent of Teresa's clothing. The helicopters were flying around trying to, not only with the infrared, but just trying to spot anything. Months went by and the search for Teresa puttered out. Visitors and campers in the national forest were advised to be on the lookout for Teresa, but nothing further, aside from Skip's shirt with a pocketful of meth, was ever found. News coverage dried up and without any irrefutable evidence of Teresa's fate, they could not charge Skip with murder. When it came time for his trial that October, the district attorney faced a hard decision. If they charged Skip with child stealing and Teresa's body was found in the future, they were really nervous that they would be unable to reopen the case

• 50:25Danielle LaRock?

  and charge him with murder due to laws against double jeopardy. And I, so there's a whole chapter on this in the book and it kind of goes back and forth about their reluctance to charge him with certain things because they were, they didn't want to mess it up and be like, we don't want to ruin our chances of getting him on murder if something happens and or Teresa's remains are found.

• 50:52Danielle LaRock?

  But isn't it for an exact, like they're charging him with child stealing and like they're not charging him with murder. I thought double jeopardy is the same exact charge you can't be charged with twice or tried for twice.

• 51:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it is. So like, maybe that's why for the other stuff they can get him on because they know that he was with her. But for murder, since they don't have her body, they don't want him to be found not guilty and then never be able to try him for it.

• 51:21Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 51:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's the only thought that I like why you would avoid that charge because sometimes people do get murder charges even without remains being found.

• 51:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, there's just not, I mean, it's just kind of all hearsay rumors. We're, you know, it's just, they knew they wouldn't be able, that wouldn't stick in court. But maybe this will answer it a little bit. I'm just remain a little bit confused by it. So essentially, they were so confident that Skip had killed Teresa that they offered him a plea deal, plead guilty to child stealing, waive your right to claim double jeopardy and we'll give you a light sentence. But then he refused that deal. Ultimately, the district attorney decided to waive all charges and they let him walk free.

• 52:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  What? All charges?

• 52:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 52:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  He has admitted to taking a teenager into the woods and then her never being found again.

• 52:18Danielle LaRock?

  Right. I know. That's why I remain very confused about that.

• 52:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  What?

• 52:23Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, free to go. And maybe, I mean, the person who I forget his name, the author's name, but he did include in the book because he kind of infused some of his own personal thoughts too on the case and things like this. And he's just like, I remained, I remain deeply confounded about why they decided to do this and why this decision was. Ultimately made, but yeah, he basically walked, walked free. He was never sentenced for anything. And it seems like they were hoping they would find Teresa's body or something that would give them the ability to charge Skip with murder. Uh, but that just never came.

• 53:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Get him off the streets now, you know, like at least while you're still trying to build the murder case, you've got everything else. He admitted to it. This is just like another case where police aren't taking crimes against women seriously or girls.

• 53:20Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 53:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  And it bothers me. I know you said that they've been searching and not like the investigators, but once it got to the court system, it just seems like not taken seriously.

• 53:31Danielle LaRock?

  I don't even know. Like they just, it feels like they just got so tripped up with worrying that they would ruin their chances for a bigger charge that they just totally fumbled everything. Because again, they weren't, the double jeopardy thing, I just don't really understand because they weren't charging him with murder to begin with. They were charging him with other crimes.

• 53:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which he would have been found guilty for.

• 53:56Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 53:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's so much evidence. He literally has a Polaroid with them out in the woods.

• 54:00Danielle LaRock?

  And he admitted, he, he never admit, he never denied not being with her.

• 54:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Danielle LaRock?

  Well, he did initially. He was like, oh, just, yeah.

• 54:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 54:10Danielle LaRock?

  But then he stuck with it and he was like, yeah, we were here, we did this, whatever. So the charges that he was facing with child endangerment and stealing and all of that, he would have been found guilty for, I think. But regardless, it was totally messed up. He walked free. Free to go, sir. And, uh, they were just hoping that, oh, we'll get him, you know, when Teresa's remains are found, like then we'll really nab him. Well, that never happened because Teresa's body has never been found.

• 54:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 54:41Danielle LaRock?

  Skip died a free man at the age of 54 from severe coronary artery disease in 1998. Blind Johnny died in 2008 of cancer, also without facing any sort of consequences for Teresa's disappearance. And even though they didn't have a ton on him like they did with Skip, there was rumors and it was shady and it seemed not right. But I just did want to mention he was never arrested or charged with anything.

• 55:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And who knows if he hurt other people.

• 55:13Danielle LaRock?

  So with the two of them gone, it's likely that the people who know what happened to Teresa have died. But that hasn't stopped amateur sleuths from keeping the case alive. In the years since investigators, documentarians and local historians have tugged at loose ends. The book, which I got on Kindle, is called Meth Murder and Bigfoot. And it tracked down the lead detective from the case. And the Discovery series Bigfoot took her, tracked down a number of different people who had known Teresa, Skip and Johnny in search of answers. And their searches turned up kind of two big possible explanations.

• 55:54Danielle LaRock?

  When the hosts of the mini series were speaking with Skip's surviving daughter, Chandra, she suggested the team investigate Wesley Sherman Tine and Lauren Herzog, better known as the Speed Freak Killers. So let's take a little bit of a.

• 56:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  The Speed Freak Killers? I've never heard of this.

• 56:12Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. You're gonna wish you didn't. I'll just give you a small look into who they were because they were awful. And clearly it's something that both the book and the docu-series did look into because it was presented as a possibility, but.

• 56:31Danielle LaRock?

  So essentially, these two guys, they were nicknamed the Speed Freak Killers. They were a meth fueled duo of serial killers that were active in California Central Valley in the late 1990s. They were convicted of four murders, but are suspected to have been connected with the deaths of as many as 70 individuals.

• 56:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Whoa.

• 56:52Danielle LaRock?

  Targeting random victims, killing for fun and sport, and searching for victims in remote areas. Some investigators wondered whether Teresa had simply bad timing, like wrong place, wrong time, and found herself in their sights, essentially. The Bigfoot took her crew, chased that lead, finding a journalist who had developed kind of like a close working relationship with one of the surviving Speed Freak Killers, who is serving out a death row sentence in San Quentin. According to that reporter, the murderer denied any connection to Teresa or the area that she disappeared in. And if you're kind of wondering, like, are we gonna believe this guy? Like, he killed 70 people?

• 57:36Danielle LaRock?

  Like, should we really believe if he is telling the truth or not? So you can kind of make up your own mind about that, but he did kind of, the call was recorded, and you can hear him talking about it. He's like, no, like, and he's in jail for life. He admitted to a bunch of other shit. Like, I think he also admitted to a location, a dump site, where over 1,000 bone fragments of people were found.

• 58:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Whoa.

• 58:09Danielle LaRock?

  So he was at some point in time.

• 58:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Giving information.

• 58:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, at some point in time, after however many years in jail, he was kind of telling or giving information.

• 58:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just, I mean, it's crazy, but I think sometimes the simplest answers are it. She was last seen with a guy who was mentally unstable and paranoid and was known to bring underage girls into the woods, and he showed a human sacrificial rock to someone.

• 58:35Danielle LaRock?

  Right. And, you know, there's one thing about, you should really look into every lead, and that's great, and it's kind of like your due diligence, but it's super highly unlikely. So I think everyone is in that, in agreement with that.

• 58:54Speaker 01

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• 59:27Danielle LaRock?

  James Welsh, who was Skip's nephew, suggested that law enforcement search every mineshaft that they could find in the area because he was pretty convinced his uncle dumped her body down a mineshaft. Because remember, he had four different mining claims out there as well. So he was really, uh, he was well-versed in the area and where different places.

• 59:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  And that, I mean, are you ever gonna find her?

• 59:53Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Finally, in a last-ditch effort to try and solve the case, the discovery crew encountered a YouTube video by a woman named Devon, who is Skip's grandniece. She's like Gen Z. And she had kind of just made a video about her uncle that she found out was connected to this case and was, you know, she just kind of put it out there. She doesn't have any personal connection to him. He died before she was born. And so she kind of just like put it out there. And she pointed out that when, based on what she had heard growing up from her family members, that when Skip came back from the mountains

• 1:00:36Danielle LaRock?

  and wound up at his mother's house without Teresa, that he got there and that night, he was super distraught, super upset. He was sobbing, he was rocking back and forth. He was muttering things about the devil and the girl and just acting super bizarre. And then, years later, when there was, I forget what needed to happen, some sort of excavation work that needed to be done in the backyard of his mom's house, Skip freaked out at the contractors and forbid them from digging up the yard.

• 1:01:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:01:13Danielle LaRock?

  And like, the project didn't go forward because he was putting up such a stink about it. And Devin, this Gen Z YouTube creator, basically kind of threw it out there like, maybe he buried Teresa in the yard. Like, he was all freaked out. He, that night, he came back and he was, you know, losing his mind and then putting up this fuss about the backyard and just really emotional about it. So anyway, there's this long saga in the mini series where the Discovery crew literally goes to Skip's mom's old house, who has new owners now.

• 1:01:53Danielle LaRock?

  They knock on the door and they're like, hey, so hi, we're the Discovery Channel. You're living in a house that this guy's mom used to live at, and maybe he buried someone in the backyard. Do we have your permission to like, look around? And they're like, okay.

• 1:02:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, so, right, sure.

• 1:02:14Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So at first they're kind of really freaked out, but they do agree. And they bring in like scent detection or cadaver dogs to sniff in the backyard. They don't hit on anything. And then they, one of the hosts like, gets into the crawl space in the basement and she like finds bones and stuff, but it turns out they're animal bones. And it's just this whole long thing. But

• 1:02:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Weird.

• 1:02:40Danielle LaRock?

  They were trying to follow up on maybe.

• 1:02:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  She probably isn't in the crawl space in the basement. People would have noticed that.

• 1:02:48Danielle LaRock?

  You would think. I don't know. But anyway, so that kind of, just like you said, leaves us with the most obvious and likely culprit. People who knew Skip couldn't agree on what kind of man he actually was. And that disagreement didn't really soften with time or perspective or more information. It still seems like there's a pretty big divide between surviving members of his family and his friends. His daughter, Chandra, remembers him as a great dad and has gone on record, as recently as last year, 2025, stating as such, "A hero," she said, "who had once pulled children from a burning

• 1:03:32Danielle LaRock?

  building, someone who wouldn't hurt anyone." Chandra believed her dad had taken Teresa into the mountains. Like, she doesn't deny that that happened, but to her, she's saying, you know, he did it because he wanted to help her because of the situation she was in. With Blind Johnny. And basically like-

• 1:03:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, you take them to the police, not into the secluded mountains alone. And then never see her again.

• 1:03:57Danielle LaRock?

  There's that. Skip's half brother, Robin, said pretty much the same sort of stuff, saying that, yeah, maybe he had some bad judgment here and there, but he wasn't ill intentioned. He wouldn't hurt a fly, let alone kill someone. And yeah, he was obsessed with Bigfoot, probably to unhealthy levels. Yes, he was addicted to drugs, but he wasn't a killer.

• 1:04:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but I feel like that is a tough line because I'm sure sober, he probably, maybe he was this wonderful person. But when you're on a drug, that totally alters your mind and creates hallucinations and paranoia. You beca- you become someone that is unrecognizable to your true character. So to say like, oh, he would never, it's like, maybe if he was not using drugs, he would never. But now there's a whole, there's something else at play here.

• 1:04:49Danielle LaRock?

  These are hard drugs, you know?

• 1:04:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and he's exhibiting all of these behaviors that are super concerning. So-

• 1:04:57Danielle LaRock?

  And it's such a valid point.

• 1:04:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  I get why you wouldn't want to think your family did it, but-

• 1:05:02Danielle LaRock?

  You gotta face kind of the facts of what's happening here. But then you have the other side of things. Tammy Newman, Blind Johnny's girlfriend, when Teresa disappeared, said, when it came to Skip, she had pretty clear feelings. She said, that son of a bitch killed her and she has never wavered on her feelings about that.

• 1:05:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, someone intimately close to someone is gonna know them the best.

• 1:05:26Danielle LaRock?

  And Skip's own nephew reportedly called him dangerous, claiming he was a man who preyed on vulnerable girls. It's like, he's the same guy that his uncle showed a sacrificial rock to.

• 1:05:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Danielle LaRock?

  You know, and that, that experience doesn't go away. It's like-

• 1:05:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  And nice guys don't do that.

• 1:05:42Danielle LaRock?

  He's clapping that about someone. Right, right.

• 1:05:46Danielle LaRock?

  Investigators pointed to something harder to dismiss than character assessments, you know, even beyond what people felt about him or their personal experience with him. And that was that his stories just kept changing. They kept getting less and less believable. And when prosecutors offered him a deal, like, hey, we'll give you a lighter sentence if you waive your right to double jeopardy. He refused that. He went to his grave in 1998, still telling this Bigfoot story. Nearly 40 years later, Teresa Ann Bier is still listed as a missing person, and her case remains officially unsolved. DNA from her family has been submitted for comparison against unidentified remains, but so far, there has been no match.

• 1:06:28Danielle LaRock?

  The people who knew the most about the case are gone. What remains is this. A 16-year-old girl who had already been failed by every adult in her life, walked into the Sierra Nevada with a man who came back out alone, and whose every instinct afterward, the changing stories, the refused plea deal, the staged campsite, pointed away from innocence. The Bigfoot headline got the attention. Teresa, a young, curious girl who loved nature and still placed trust in people despite being wronged so many times before, deserved so much more. If Teresa was alive today, she would be 54 years old. If you have any information connected to this case, please contact the Fresno Police

• 1:07:10Danielle LaRock?

  Department at 559-621-2541.

• 1:07:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  I hated that. Thank you. That was awful.

• 1:07:21Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I see why I kept you up at night. That was really, I mean, I said it before in the episode, but anything with children, I think, just hits a little bit differently. But also, the fact that she was failed at every turn in her life and the abuse that she endured, just for her life to end in whatever capacity it has, it's just really, really heartbreaking.

• 1:07:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And just like all the unknowns of what he did to her.

• 1:07:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Danielle LaRock?

  Allegedly. You know, anything that he was just so convinced, I mean, I left out a lot of his, like, more detailed beliefs about these devil gods and what they required, and these sacrifices, and things like that. And just knowing that that's what he was telling people about, like, what he truly believed. To to think of what she potentially experienced like it just is really upsetting. But I guess thank you to that person who recommended it because it was bizarre. It's a bizarre case, especially with the Bigfoot twist and things like that. But, you know, I haven't heard of Teresa's story before.

• 1:08:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I haven't either. And I think with missing persons cases, especially ones like this, to bring more light to it. You never know. You just never know who might be listening or who might see it and be like, wait a second. I was in those mountains with my dad that day, like way back when. And I remember seeing this, like, you just never know the connections that are out there for something. So I really hope that by keeping this case alive and talked about and Teresa alive and talked about, that there's some type of closure that happens.

• 1:09:05Danielle LaRock?

  I agree because Blind Johnny and Skip are dead, but there are plenty of people who are still alive that knew them. You know?

• 1:09:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  And if she's only gonna be, if she's only 54 right now, any of her friends are probably still alive right now, you know? And and people who might have connections and.

• 1:09:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. Well, to pivot to kind of, because I feel like if there was an episode for a palate cleanser, this would be.

• 1:09:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, let's chat and just make things a little happier for a minute. Yeah, I agree. We can't leave you all on this note, although we do do that sometimes.

• 1:09:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, not today for that. And I have a serious question for you. I need your opinion.

• 1:09:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 1:09:45Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. So from my, my question for you is, do you have your phone?

• 1:09:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep.

• 1:09:49Danielle LaRock?

  I'm sending you a picture and I need you fully honest opinion. Do I need this?

• 1:09:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:09:57Danielle LaRock?

  Like truly, okay.

• 1:09:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  You only sent that to me because you knew I was gonna say yes.

• 1:10:02Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I actually didn't know because it's looks ridiculous, but I'm truly.

• 1:10:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  So cute and it'll protect Gator from wildlife.

• 1:10:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So I'll put it on the, we'll put it on the screen so people can see. But this is called the coyote vest and for people who have small dogs are probably like, yeah, we know, we have them. But I have never owned a little dog before. Have we said we've officially adopted Gator?

• 1:10:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  We have.

• 1:10:30Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, we have.

• 1:10:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, you said, have we said I we adopted Gator? And I was like, we have adopted Gator.

• 1:10:37Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, we have. I just didn't know we announced it.

• 1:10:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think you ever announced it. No, I saw a comment that you announced it in an advertisement.

• 1:10:46Danielle LaRock?

  Oops.

• 1:10:48Danielle LaRock?

  I did do that. Um, well, yes. Okay. So to catch everyone out, this is, uh, our first time back recording in a few weeks, just because we've both been on some separate vacations and things like that. So we pre-recorded a ton. So I'm just a little bit lost in the timeline. But yes, Gator is officially part of the National Park After Dark community. Gator is formerly known as Noah. We're all following here. He's a very tiny chihuahua. And I've just, I grew up with Jack Russell's. Um, my family had Jack Russell's, but never a dog that weighs like 11 pounds.

• 1:11:25Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm truly concerned because not only have I physically with my eyes seen fox and coyotes on my property. My Merlin bird app going crazy today. I have eagles. I have hawks. I have vultures. I know for a fact there are bear, like, there's just so many things.

• 1:11:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Probably have owls at night.

• 1:11:48Danielle LaRock?

  I definitely have owls.

• 1:11:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm just, there's Bobcats around here. I'm just so worried about him.

• 1:11:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, I don't think it'll hurt. And it's really funny. And Danielle sent me a picture of this dog that literally has, it's like this head to toe jacket on, except it has crazy spikes coming out of it everywhere. Um.

• 1:12:16Danielle LaRock?

  So I did, I've been doing research on this. Okay. So this coyote vest is a brand. And it was founded after, I forget the dog's name, but it was like a little white dog that got nabbed by a coyote in front of these owners and was killed.

• 1:12:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:34Danielle LaRock?

  So they, they invented this.

• 1:12:37Danielle LaRock?

  Vest that has different, so I'm, so from my understanding, there's different like accessories you can get for it. One of them is called like the hawk shield. So it's the birds of prey can't get their talons into them.

• 1:12:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:54Danielle LaRock?

  And then those big crazy spiky things that aren't truly spikes, but they look like, I don't even know what, what would you describe?

• 1:13:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  It looks like those things when you're at the Fourth of July that you wave around and they light up.

• 1:13:09Danielle LaRock?

  Sparklers, they look like sparklers?

• 1:13:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, not sparklers. They're plastic, but they like glow and they like float around.

• 1:13:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, they, it looks crazy. Um, but those are for the coyotes to deter coyotes and clearly. I don't know. It's like, am I gonna put this on Gator every single time he's outside?

• 1:13:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think so, but I think like if you wanted to put this on him, like if you were hanging out in the yard and you had like a like on the porch or something and you didn't have him on a leash.

• 1:13:39Danielle LaRock?

  Cause I do that all the, and I do that all the time.

• 1:13:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that might be nice. You don't have to worry.

• 1:13:45Danielle LaRock?

  And

• 1:13:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. I think it's slightly ridiculous, but I also love it.

• 1:13:49Danielle LaRock?

  I just got a note from people who are small dog owners. Do you do this? Is this?

• 1:13:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  My dad has a chihuahua and he does not. And his chihuahua has faced coyotes before Taco.

• 1:14:02Danielle LaRock?

  And he's lived.

• 1:14:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's a bad mama jama. Yeah.

• 1:14:05Danielle LaRock?

  He is the boy who lived.

• 1:14:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  He is the boy who lived.

• 1:14:08Danielle LaRock?

  But Taco's also pretty sturdy.

• 1:14:11Danielle LaRock?

  Not saying he's fat, but he's overweight.

• 1:14:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's literally saying the exact same thing.

• 1:14:18Danielle LaRock?

  In a nicer way.

• 1:14:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  He is, he is a little bit fat, but he is 13 pounds.

• 1:14:23Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. And Gator's 11.

• 1:14:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. So he's a little smaller than Gator, just like, I mean, you've seen him.

• 1:14:31Danielle LaRock?

  He's more compact. Gator's kind of long. He's long and skinny.

• 1:14:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:35Danielle LaRock?

  So I don't know. Yeah, that's been on my mind today. Last night I was kept awake by this awful case. And then today I've been stressed out about

• 1:14:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  getting eaten by

• 1:14:46Danielle LaRock?

  picked up from mostly it's birds of prey because

• 1:14:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I think he's a little heavy for birds of prey. 11 pounds is pretty big for a bird of prey. Yeah, I think they're more like I not that it's impossible, but I just think that they go more towards like voles and squirrels and things that are a bit smaller than him.

• 1:15:04Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, just I'm nervous.

• 1:15:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  I still want you to get it. I think it's slightly ridiculous, but I do think you need it.

• 1:15:10Danielle LaRock?

  I just like imagine him trying to have a good time out in the sun on the porch and he's like, get this fucking thing off me.

• 1:15:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's gonna like little get an all black one and he'll just look like he loves death metal.

• 1:15:21Danielle LaRock?

  That's true. It's like, I'm just trying to make you look cool.

• 1:15:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, he would look cool.

• 1:15:27Danielle LaRock?

  So that's what's going on with me. What's going on with you?

• 1:15:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  With me? Well, I guess a lot. If you're watching, you see that I'm totally in not my office anymore.

• 1:15:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  So I did a cross country road trip recently and I am currently living in the Tetons Yellowstone area for the summer. So if anyone is listening and you have some wrecks, please let me know because I'm going to be here for a while.

• 1:15:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, just live in life, live in the best Western life you can.

• 1:15:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep. Yep. I'm going horseback riding tomorrow. I have been in the Tetons in Yellowstone so many times since I've been here.

• 1:16:08Danielle LaRock?

  And what day was it? I asked you something. I don't know what I asked you. I was in Nova Scotia with my mom. And I asked you something. You're like, oh yeah, I'm headed to Lamar Valley today, but when I get back, I'll do it. I'm like, oh my God.

• 1:16:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fine.

• 1:16:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fine. Yeah. It's okay. I'm just scoping out all the best spots. So when you come here, I can be the best tour guide.

• 1:16:30Danielle LaRock?

  That's right. Cause I've never been to the Tetons.

• 1:16:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just crazy. Yeah. I think you're really going to like the Tetons too. I'm excited. Yeah. And I will say, I will say that I have a new appreciation for Yellowstone.

• 1:16:45Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, tell me more.

• 1:16:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, so I've just been exploring a lot of Yellowstone that I had never seen before. And because before, my experience mostly came from the geyser region over there and where has the most tourists. And I just had so many experiences of being like almost run down by tourists. And one of my friends almost got pushed into a geyser when we were there. And it was just like, I kinda had a little bit of a like, oh, my God, this is way too much. But oh, my God, Yellowstone is so beautiful. Like, I was, I've spent a few days there now and just the countryside there. Of course, the wildlife is incredible. But when you like, really look at the landscape there,

• 1:17:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  it's, the geology of Yellowstone is just absolutely insane. And you are on a super volcano and you're in geysers, but then you're like, up in this flower meadow, surrounded by mountains and lakes. And then there's bears and wolves. And it's just, I saw a badger bring ground squirrels to their den. I don't, it just, yeah, there's just so much stuff around there. So I would like to formally take back everything that I've ever said about Yellowstone.

• 1:17:57Danielle LaRock?

  My heart feels like it just grew three times in size. I'm so happy to hear you say that. As someone who has been a Yellowstone defender and lover throughout, and I always preface it by being like, I know, it's not everyone's favorite, but it's mine.

• 1:18:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, I see why it was just exploring it more. And I mean, it's so massive. I haven't even touched the surface. And I've been going there like, a few days. And I have some backcountry stuff planned to really get to see the interior more. But I see why it was the first national park and why it inspired the world to do national parks. And it's just,

• 1:18:37Danielle LaRock?

  And why it's so special.

• 1:18:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  And why it's so special. Yeah, I just, I think I'm looking at Yellowstone through new eyes. And it's exciting and I plan to spend a lot more time there because the Tetons are awesome. They're amazing. They're the mountain range is probably one of the prettiest ranges I've ever seen. There's so much, there's cool swimming holes, the hiking is incredible, there's climbing, there's just like so much, but Yellowstone is so interesting. You know, there's so many

• 1:19:03Danielle LaRock?

  It's dynamic. There's so much, yeah, there's so much variety.

• 1:19:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Danielle LaRock?

  I think, and it's just, yeah.

• 1:19:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm, I'm

• 1:19:11Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, and this is coming from someone who also has not seen nearly a fraction of what it has to offer.

• 1:19:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:19Danielle LaRock?

  I was just

• 1:19:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  And most people haven't, you know, unless you live and work there. And I've gotten to talk to a lot of people who live and work in the area already. And I have not, as of this recording, I've not done anything. But if people are looking into stuff to do, Yellowstone Forever is their, is their nonprofit partner that hosts all of these things within the park, especially if you're a solo traveler or something and you are looking to get into the backcountry or just learn about the park a little bit more. They have everything from rides to, or rides, like drives through the park, things, drives through the park with professionals to actually getting in the backcountry to, there's just so much that

• 1:20:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  they offer and programs that you can participate in. And they're called Yellowstone Forever. I think I said that, but in case I didn't. I'm just over here getting a new appreciation for Yellowstone and the Tetons. I've gone to places in the Tetons I've never visited before and I'm just

• 1:20:18Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you have the time, right?

• 1:20:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's the thing is I'm not rushed.

• 1:20:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. When we're just on these trips, even if you dedicate a week to a park, I mean, like when I, my first trip to Yellowstone, we were there for a week.

• 1:20:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Danielle LaRock?

  And granted, I was with three different generations of people and we were limited with what we were able to do and things like that. But even if you do go with the intentions of being like, we're, we're getting in there, we're doing all this stuff, there's no way you would ever be able to experience it in the way that being somewhere for consecutive months allows you to. So that's

• 1:20:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52Danielle LaRock?

  A really cool opportunity.

• 1:20:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's the size of Switzerland. So there's a lot, there's a lot of

• 1:20:56Danielle LaRock?

  Get going.

• 1:20:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. There's a lot of ground cover to explore over here. But definitely getting, getting a new appreciation, which is fun.

• 1:21:07Danielle LaRock?

  That's a perfect place to end. I'm so happy to hear that. Because it just feels like you're on my side now, you know?

• 1:21:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:14Danielle LaRock?

  Before I felt like we were.

• 1:21:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's not that I never thought Yellowstone was amazing. It was just that the tourism there kind of put a bad taste in my mouth because there were so many people. And obviously that's wonderful that so many people want to see such an amazing place. But now I feel like I'm seeing it a little bit different.

• 1:21:33Danielle LaRock?

  It just needed a second chance, you know?

• 1:21:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's how I feel about the Everglades, but it has nothing to do with the tourism. It's just my person I went with.

• 1:21:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which can ruin a trip and has ruined trips.

• 1:21:47Danielle LaRock?

  Many trips.

• 1:21:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Many trips. You gotta go with the right person. That's right. Yeah. Oh, and I didn't tell you, and I'll, I guess I'll say it on the podcast because hi, Bridget. I, Bridget was in the Tetons and I went hiking with her in the Tetons the other day.

• 1:22:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hey, Bridget. Hi, Bridget. See you in Spalbard.

• 1:22:05Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  But yeah, there's, and I've run into so many people who listen.

• 1:22:12Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah.

• 1:22:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Here, I've never met so many people who listen to the podcast since I've been here and it's so cool.

• 1:22:21Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it's kind of cool to just be like, I mean, to get recognized is weird. But at the same time, it's like you're in the place to be, you're in a park. It's like some of the most popular parks at the best time of year. It's kind of like you didn't just get recognized like on the streets of Vermont somewhere, which has happened.

• 1:22:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Has it?

• 1:22:44Danielle LaRock?

  You've been recognized in Vermont before.

• 1:22:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't remember.

• 1:22:47Danielle LaRock?

  Someone said they liked your sweatshirt and you just said, thanks.

• 1:22:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but I don't think they knew who I was.

• 1:22:54Danielle LaRock?

  They knew who you were.

• 1:22:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Don't say that. I still think about that reaction sometimes and I just hope that they didn't know it was me.

• 1:23:03Danielle LaRock?

  Well, speaking of sweatshirts, another, I am being recognized. I was recognized twice on my own trip when I was in the Southwest. Did five parks and I forget their names. I'm sorry, I forget everyone's name, so it's not personal. But I, one of the park rangers in Guadalupe recognized me.

• 1:23:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool.

• 1:23:25Danielle LaRock?

  Which was really cool.

• 1:23:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's.

• 1:23:26Danielle LaRock?

  That was like a, I was fangirling. I'm like, a ranger knows who I am. And then in the Mesa Verde Visitor Center, I saw our sweatshirt and somebody wearing it. I'm like, oh, my God, I have to say something.

• 1:23:40Danielle LaRock?

  I'm like, wait, before you leave.

• 1:23:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  You didn't do what I did.

• 1:23:43Danielle LaRock?

  No, I didn't ignore him. I went up to him and said, hey, I really like your sweatshirt. And he turned around and he started to say, you know, like, oh, thanks, you know? And then he recognized me like midway through and he's like, oh my God, I can't believe it's you. Um, we took a picture and stuff. He was really nice.

• 1:23:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's really cool.

• 1:24:01Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So that was fun.

• 1:24:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, we have some travels this summer. So if you guys think you see us in the park, come say hi, cause we probably are there.

• 1:24:08Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. One of my bingo things that we did for our live stream, however many, oh, January live stream, like we made our 2026 bingo cards. One of my things, I put such a modest, I wanted to give myself some easy wins, you know?

• 1:24:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:22Danielle LaRock?

  And one of my tiles I wrote, like, visit one new national park.

• 1:24:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like five in one trip.

• 1:24:27Danielle LaRock?

  Boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. Yeah. Which I don't recommend. I totally, I did it in six, I did five parks in six days.

• 1:24:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's a lot of driving and not a lot of time in the parks.

• 1:24:38Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 1:24:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's tough.

• 1:24:40Danielle LaRock?

  Anywho, it was great. I had a really fun time. And I think that's about, it's fun enough. I think maybe I'll go order my coyote vest for Keen now.

• 1:24:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Please do and post a photo of him in it because I want to see it personally, but now I'm sure everyone else does too.

• 1:24:58Danielle LaRock?

  I want to see pictures of people's little dogs in their coyote vest. So I'd feel less alone.

• 1:25:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or maybe you'll just start a trend like Regina George when she cuts out her nipple things and then everyone else does.

• 1:25:10Danielle LaRock?

  With the purple bra like showing.

• 1:25:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, maybe it's a new trend. I'll get one for Amber. She'll look ridiculous. They probably don't even make her size, but.

• 1:25:17Danielle LaRock?

  No, for sure not.

• 1:25:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  But she can use one. There's so much wildlife out here.

• 1:25:22Danielle LaRock?

  I think for her, it would be more of, they sell those collars that have the big spikes on them. Oh, for bigger dogs.

• 1:25:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  She'd look bad.

• 1:25:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bad girl.

• 1:25:31Danielle LaRock?

  Bad, bad bitch. Yeah.

• 1:25:35Danielle LaRock?

  All right, uh, everyone, we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening and we'll see you, uh, later.

• 1:25:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  We'll see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back.

• 1:25:48Danielle LaRock?

  Bye, guys.

• 1:25:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 1:25:51Danielle LaRock?

  Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more NPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark. For more stories just like this one, with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.

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